June 6, 2025 • 31 mins
Are you feeling a bit “meh”? Like every day is on repeat and you’re craving something to shake things up? In this episode of But Are You Happy, clinical psychologist Dr. Anastasia Hronis breaks down why we get stuck in ruts—and how to tell whether it’s just a temporary slump or something deeper like anxiety or depression. You'll also learn:
- Practical strategies to help you break out of a rut
- The symptoms of depression and how to seek support
- Ways to rediscover what brings you real joy
- How to tap into the three P’s: pleasure, progress, and purpose
If you or someone you know needs support, contact Lifeline on 13 11 14 or Beyond Blue on 1300 22 4636. Both services are available 24/7 for free, confidential mental health support.
Want to get in touch with us? DM @butareyouhappypod on Instagram or send us a voice memo. Our hosts are ready to hear your dilemmas—think of it as free therapy!
CREDITS:
Hosts: Ashani Dante & Dr Anastasia Hronis
Executive Producer: Naima Brown
Senior Producer: Tahli Blackman
Audio Producer: Jacob Round
Our studio is styled with furniture from Fenton and Fenton.
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
Support the show: https://www.mamamia.com.au/mplus/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and
waters that this podcast is recorded on just feeling only
down these days and I don't know why. Have you
exercised today?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
No?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Did you go outside?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
No?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Did you talk to anyone?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
No? Did you eat well? No?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Did you lim meet your scrolling time?
Speaker 1 (00:30):
No?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Do you make any plans?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
No?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Did you drink enough water?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
No?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Did you get enough sleep?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
No?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Wait, yes, yes to that one. Yeah, no, it's what
a mystery.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
For Mamma Mia. I'm your host, Ashanny Dante. Welcome to
But are you happy? Because a hot girl walk quotes
of everything?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
And I'm doctor Anastasia Hernus, a clinical psychologist passionate about happiness.
A question for you listener. Do you sometimes feel meh
or a bit blah?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Are those technical terms, Anastasia.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Well, not exactly, but they they are very strong indicators
a feeling like we're in a rut, like life has
gotten a bit too monotonous, too predictable, and isn't bringing
us any joy.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Oh, that's stuck feeling. Honestly, it's the worst it is.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
But it can also be a great opportunity for growth.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Which you're going to teach us all about today, right, Yep,
let's get straight in, okay, anaesthesia, Let's start with a
little bit of orientation, because I can imagine the feeling
being stuck in a rut might be a symptom of
depression for some people, whereas for others it might just
be about being in a big life transition or navigating change.
(01:53):
Can you give us a bit of a framework for
how to even begin with this conversation?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Absolutely? So, being in a rut again, is not a
clinical definition or term that we would use as clinical psychologists,
but it's certainly something that people report feeling, and I
guess it can mean different things for different people. So
in my practice with my clients, being stuck in a
rut can sometimes be an indicator of something like depression.
(02:21):
For other people, it might just be an indicator that
they don't have enough fun and spontaneity and excitement or
novelty happening in their life, And for other people it
can be a symptom of something we refer to as languishing.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
What is languishing?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yeah, so languishing and flourishing are two terms that I
guess I want to introduce as existing on ends of
a spectrum. Now, some of our listeners might be familiar
with the concept of languishing. It did the rounds during COVID,
and that's actually when I first heard about this term.
So this idea of languishing and flourishing refer to our
(02:59):
well being. So if I start off with flourishing first,
So flourishing is this idea of self described subjective well being,
this kind of optimal level of functioning in life. I
feel really good subjectively. If I were to describe to
someone how I feel, it's overall pretty good. I have excitement,
(03:19):
I have enjoyment, I have fulfillment in my life. That's flourishing. Languishing,
on the other end of the spectrum, describes this state
of apathy, a sense of feeling unsettled, a bit restless,
a bit bored, kind of that sense of meh and
block that we were talking about at the start, and
(03:41):
maybe we kind of just don't feel like we're interested
in many things in life. That's languishing. So what I
want to highlight is that languishing is not the same
as having a diagnosable mental health condition like depression. So
languishing and depression are two different things. Someone can feel
like they're languishing in life, so going through life not
(04:03):
feeling particularly satisfied, feeling a bit restless and bored, but
that doesn't necessarily mean that they're depressed. On the flip side,
someone can have a diagnosed mental illness like schizophrenia, and
they can be flourishing in life. They can be living
a life that feels to them actually really quite full
(04:25):
and satisfying and happy.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So essentially, even if you have a mental health condition,
you can be flourishing.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Absolutely interesting because flourishing is that self described experience of
how I feel in my life at this point in time.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
So how do I know if I'm languishing or if
I'm depressed.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
So depression in the sense of how we clinically define it,
according to the diagnostic manual, it's essentially having approximately five
symptoms over a two week period. Now I'll go through
what those symptoms are. So one of the symptoms needs
to be a depressed mood, so that is feeling quite low, flat, dissatisfied, hopeless, helpless.
(05:10):
Symptom is needing to feel like I have a loss
of interest in the activities that I'm usually quite interested in.
So if I usually love going out and kayaking, and
all of a sudden, I have no interest in going
out kayaking, that could be an indicator of depression. But
there's some others as well. So it might be that
there are significant weight changes for me, so I'm either
(05:31):
gaining weight or I'm losing weight. It might be that
I notice I have changes in my sleep patterns. I'm
either sleeping too much or I'm not sleeping enough. It
might be that I feel quite agitated and restless day
to day. It might be that I feel quite worthless
in myself. I don't feel like I have enough confidence
and worth in myself. And it sometimes even is for
(05:53):
people recurrent thoughts of harming themselves or suicide. And what
we're looking for is at least five of those symptoms
to classify as a diagnosis for depression.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
So then what about then with languishing, What are the
characteristics for that?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
The characteristics for languishing would be more so around that
feeling of being dissatisfied, restless, uneasy, sometimes bored, but that
kind of like frustration that comes with boredom, so I
don't necessarily notice the impact in other areas of my life,
where my weight's changing, my sleep is changing, I feel worthless,
(06:31):
I'm having suicidal thoughts. That's not quite what we'd be
seeing with languishing. It's more that feeling of being like,
I just don't feel like I'm in the right spot
in life right now.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
So then depression they have to show up with. They
have to have the five because if they had one
of those five, you wouldn't classify that as depression.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, so if someone only had one of those symptoms,
we wouldn't diagnose depression. And I guess the way research
and the mental health world works, we have categories, so
we have cutoffs for everything, and that's because we need
some way of categorizing symptoms, diagnoses, and people. But realistically,
you know, if someone came in with three or four
(07:11):
of those symptoms, I would say to that person, you
sit in what we would refer to as a subclinical range.
You are showing some signs of depression, but you just
don't quite meet that cutoff, so it's what we refer
to as subclinical. So I'll give you an example of
someone that I worked with. We'll call him Ben. He's
a twenty one year old young guy. He was studying
(07:31):
at Uni. He was actually studying accounting. His father was
in the accounting world and had a business, and the
plan was for him to follow in his father's footsteps.
He was really gifted and skilled when it came to sports.
He was a long distance runner, and so from the
outside it kind of seems like he was ticking some boxes.
He was at Uni, he was studying, he was doing
(07:52):
his sports. He had a kind of trajectory going forward
for what some parts of his life would look like.
But he came to the therapy room and he was
just telling me, He's like, I just don't feel happy.
I just feel like and he actually used the words
rush like he was in some sort of rush, Like
he felt stuck, but he couldn't quite pin point what
the problem was. And objectively things seemed okay, but he
(08:15):
was unsatisfied. And so I worked with Ben a lot
around how do we kind of figure out what's causing
this rut and then how do we help you get
out of it?
Speaker 1 (08:23):
So, how did you explain to Ben around being in
a right like? Why do we get stuck in ruts?
Speaker 2 (08:30):
This has got a bit of a biological basis to it.
Once again, we are fundamentally creatures of habit. This goes
for all of us. We don't like change, right, Change
comes with some degree of fear, Change is risky, change
is new. And often what we find is that people
(08:52):
will do the same thing over and over again, even
if they know it's not quite good for them, because
we don't like change.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
So what's the neuroscience behind being stuck in a riot?
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yeah, our brains are wired to seek out patterns. We
like routines because they provide us with sense of security,
but they also reduce the mental load. We all have
some degree of mental capacity and finite mental resources that
we can use in any one day, and so we
need those heuristics, those ways of being able to kind
(09:24):
of make quick decisions, those patterns and those routines because
they reduce the mental load. If I give you an example,
if every time I got in the car to drive
to work it was as effortful as the first time
I drove, that would be a really tiring day for me.
So over time, the more we do something with practice,
the easier it becomes. And we actually have a bit
(09:46):
of a saying in the neuroscience world. Neurons that fire together.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Wire together I've heard that one like birds.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Of a feather flock together. Neurons that fire together wire together.
So essentially what that means is the more we do something,
whatever that might be, drive to work, type on my laptop,
ride a bike, whatever it is, the more I do it,
the more the neurons in my brain become strengthened. That
parthway in the brain becomes strengthened, so it becomes quicker
(10:13):
and easier to action that. Now, that can be a
really helpful thing, But coming back to ruts, it can
also be something that keeps us stuck in a rut
because we get stuck in the same routine, that same
pattern and routine becomes very easy for us to execute,
and it's harder and more effortful to do new things.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
So I really want to ask you about dopamine. Where
does dopamine come into all of this?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Oh, dopamine.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
I wrote a whole book on this, so I talk
for hours two about dopamine.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
So I'm glad you asked. Dopamine is a neurotransmitter in
the brain. So a neurotransmitter is essentially a chemical messenger
that sends a message between the brain and the central
nervous system. Now, dopamine does a whole lot of things
in the brain and body that I won't get into,
but what I will say is dopamine is responsible for
(11:09):
the fear feeling of short term pleasure and gratification. So
I love a donut self disclosure, I love donuts. So
when I pick up a donut and bite into it
and it tastes delicious, dopamine is firing in my brain.
It's that short term feeling of like, oh, yeah, this
(11:31):
is good, right, that's dopamine. But dope meine does something
else very important. Dopamine also fires and activates in the
brain to motivate me to seek out that pleasurable thing
again and again and again. So when I'm sitting in
my office and it's three o'clock in the afternoon and
I go, oh, you know what would be great right now?
(11:53):
A donut, Dopamine is already firing in my brain and
it motivates me to get up out of my chair,
go downstairs, go to the cafe, buy that donut, and
take a bite.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
So does that mean essentially people that are stuck in
a rut they don't have enough dopamine firing inside of them,
is that kind of what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
What they might not have is enough novelty and excitement
because the brain does like things that are new, and
when that's when dopamine is activated, it wants us to
seek out pleasurable things. But we can also build a tolerance.
So this is where we see things like addictions come
into play. I'll use video gaming as an example. Actually,
(12:35):
because Ben, the client that I spoke about, he would
spend a lot of time playing video games, and we
identified that this was one of the things keeping him
a bit stuck in a rut. He loved gaming and
it wasn't exactly something I wanted to take away from him,
right My advice was not to stop gaming. But what
happens is that we can build a tolerance in terms
of dopamine activation, and so something that was once quite
(12:59):
enjoyable and exciting no longer feels that enjoyable and exciting.
We're still drawn to it because dopamine draws us back
to it, but we don't get that same threat, real
or pleasure from it anymore.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
So what about the other end of the spectrum, like
the adrenaline seekers that you know want to jump off
a cliff every weekend. What about them?
Speaker 2 (13:21):
So, one of the things we find commonly through society
at the moment is that we are all getting smaller,
more frequent hits of dopamine activation and technology has a
lot to do with this. So what some people might
feel the need to do is to go to those
extreme lengths so that they can get those big hits
of dopamine. They're jumping off cliffs, or they're you know,
(13:41):
doing extreme sports, or in the case of things like addiction,
they're needing to use more and more of a substance
or a behavior to get that same feeling as they
once did.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
So what is getting out of a rut look like? Like?
What's the goal?
Speaker 2 (13:56):
It's balance? Ultimately, it really comes down to balance. We
all want and need those pleasurable moments, right. Dopamine is important.
It gives us that joy, that pleasure in life, and
I'm not here to take that away from anyone, but
we don't want to be just doing those pleasurable things
in excess. We need to be able to balance that
with the things that give us a greater sense of
(14:18):
meaning and purpose in life as well.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
After this shortbreak, doctor Anastasia is going to teach you
the three key principles to help us get out of
a rut. Stay with us, okay, Anastasia. So we now
know the difference between being in a rut versus being depressed.
And I feel like we have a sense now of
what exactly is going on in our brains. But what
do we do now to get out of this rut?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
When we're stuck in a rut? We want to ensure
that we have a balance of three different kinds of
activities in our day to day life. And I'm going
to talk to you what those three are. It's the
three P method, as I like to call it.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Love a good acronym. I'm here for it, yes.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
And in fact, this is what I went through with
that client Ben that I mentioned earlier, who was stuck
in quite a rut and wanted some help feeling more
fulfilled and satisfied in life. So there's three many types
of activities that I recommend everyone has in their day
to day life. So this applies whether you're stuck in
a rut or not. We all need three different kinds
(15:21):
of activities in our life. So the first P stands
for pleasure. We all need things in our day to day,
week to week lives that are fun and enjoyable, and
we simply do them because we like them, So they
(15:41):
don't necessarily serve a bigger purpose other than we do
them because they're nice and they're fun. So these might
be things like going to the cinema to see a movie,
having a coffee with a friends, getting a massage, you know,
anything that's just kind of nice to do and it
doesn't have to fulfill that bigger picture purpose in our life.
So for me, I love watching reality TV. I said it,
(16:06):
there we go. I love those music shows, the Australian idols,
the Voice that for me, that's pleasure. I love watching that.
I love going to live music, I love attending gigs.
So for me, those are the kinds of things that
fulfill the pleasurable pe in my life. I don't know, Shanne,
if you've got things that you do simply for pleasure.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
It's really interesting because when you're talking about pleasure and
giving those examples, what comes up for me because I've
been on this relationship with pleasure and being like, how
much is too much? When we're getting pleasure from external
things like should I just be you know, focusing on
gratitude or things that I can do without spending money.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Do you know what I mean? Pleasure is sometimes a
hard one for people to talk about, right, They're like,
do I deserve pleasure? Should I have pleasure? Where should
pleasure come from? And I want to say to people,
don't overthink it. Just do stuff that feels good as
long as it's imbalance with the other two pi's that
are to come.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I feel like, for me, I'm a simple kind of girl.
I love spending time with my husband, I love my
morning matches, and I love spending time in nature. All right,
so we've done number on one pleasure, what's the next one?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
So the second P stands for progress. We all need
to do things in our days, in our weeks that
give us the sense that we are progressing with something
in life, a sense of achievement that we can sort
of hold on to. So for many of us, we
might actually get this through our work. We might feel
like every day I show up to work, I make
(17:34):
progress with something and then I feel pretty good about myself.
But it could also be other skills. So think learning
a musical instrument, learning a new language, and hitting a
streak on dur lingo, or you know, growing a garden
and cultivating a garden and keeping those plants alive. Anything
that gives us a sense of progress in life is
(17:56):
really important for our sense of self and our sense
of worth.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
I really like that too, because something that I've spoken
about with one of my coaching clients, because it also
has to match your capacity as well, especially if you
have in a rut, so it's kind of retweaking it.
So for example, it's as simple as hey, you made
your bed this morning. That is progress. You know, sometimes
we can put these far fetched goals and then we
(18:22):
feel like we're constantly losing as well. So it's figuring
out what that looks like, because it's going to look
different for everyone.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Absolutely, the goals need to be realistic and achievable. And
this is not too dissimilar to something I would do
with someone who did have a diagnosis of depression. It's
just that the sense of progress, as you say, would
be made to be much more achievable for that person
in the situation that they're in. So if I come
back to Ben, the client I was talking about earlier,
(18:49):
he had actually he was ticking the box when it
came to progress right. He was at Uni. He was
you know, doing his assessments going through the course, and
he also had his long distance running that he was
very invested in and he was doing really quite well
at So he was ticking the box when it came
to a sense of progress and achievement in life. If
I think about my own life to play the piano.
(19:11):
I've played the piano my whole life, and for me
that's been something that has given me that sense of
achievement and progress because every time I sit down to
practice or learn a new piece and I finally play
it through without any mistakes, that's a sense of achievement
for me, and it ticks that box of progressing with something.
Is there anything in your life, a Shanee, where you
(19:31):
feel like it ticks that box of making progress?
Speaker 1 (19:35):
This is a really interesting question, and I feel like
I actually don't know because I feel like I have
constantly gratified myself from progress. I like the ticking the
box thing has always felt really good, but I've seen
the implications of that on me, like I get really
burnt out or stressed, and at the moment, I'm not sure.
(19:57):
I'll have to get back to you. Food for thought,
food for thought. Okay, what's the last pe?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
So our last piece stands for purpose.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
We all need to do things throughout our lives and
day to day, week to week that align with our
core values that give us a bigger sense of purpose
in life. It's this idea of being part of something
that's bigger than just ourselves. So examples of this might
be cooking a meal for a loved one or advocating
(20:31):
for a cause that's important to us. So this sense
of purpose encompasses being part of something that's bigger than ourselves,
and it often encompasses this notion of giving. We're giving
a part of ourselves to someone else or to something else.
So for me, I get a lot of purpose through community,
and that community shows up in different ways. So I
(20:53):
get it through friendship communities, I get it through my family.
I get it through the Greek cultural community that I'm
a part of. But it's really important to me to
show up in those spaces and be myself and give
something of myself to those community groups.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I love that. So did Ben have a purpose?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
This is what Ben was struggling with. So Ben was
great with the progress, He didn't have a whole lot
of the first P pleasure, so we had to do
some readjusting there. But he also was really unclear on
what purpose meant for him. And look, he's twenty one
years old. I didn't expect him to kind of show
up in the world with a clearly defined sense of purpose.
(21:32):
And that's fine. We all go through this journey of
finding what our purpose is and what purpose means to us,
and it can mean all sorts of things. But we
did a lot of work that was around clarifying his values,
getting him to understand what he truly wanted in life,
not what his family told him he should want, or
what society told him he should want, or you know,
(21:53):
continuing to put pressure on himself to achieve in all
these ways where he was quite successful with his sports.
We had to strip it back and help him identify
what did he want, what was pleasurable for him in life,
but what was meaningful and purposeful for him as well.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
I feel like even with purpose too, because it can
feel really overwhelming. You hear the word thrown around a lot,
and I can imagine, especially someone as young as Ben,
freaking out being like, I don't know, I really love
that you took that space to simplify it because it
is really that simple. And then also it's okay to
not know yet.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Yes, well absolutely, And these three p's serve as a framework.
We don't need to be ticking them all off every
single day, but for the most part in our life,
we do want to have some sense of balance with them.
And what we find is that when there isn't that
balance in place, that's when people can start to feel
out of sorts in some sort of way. So the
(22:49):
next step that I actually recommend to all the listeners
out there is sit down and do a bit of
an audit of your week. Think back to last week
and write down for yourself, what did I do through
my week that fulfilled pleasure? What did I do through
my week that fulfilled a sense of progress? And what
(23:11):
did I do through my week that fulfilled a sense
of purpose? And just notice if there are any bits
that are off balance, maybe you're doing heaps of progress
but not enough of the other two. And that's where
we can clearly identify where we can recalibrate things, and
some actions and some goals that we can set for
ourselves that are going to help us feel overall more
(23:34):
satisfied and fulfilled and like we're flourishing in life.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
And we're getting out of that rut. Yes, so you
set a sign of being in a rut? Is being
bored Is boredom always a bad thing?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
No, Boredom is definitely not always a bad thing. Boredom
sometimes doesn't feel great, just like we've talked about other emotions.
Anxiety doesn't feel great, Guilt doesn't feel great, Boredom doesn't
feel great. But they serve a purpose, and boredom can
be a great opportunity for other things to grow. Right.
Boredom is sometimes where creativity comes about. Boredom also helps
(24:10):
us build a very necessary tool that we refer to
as frustration tolerance, our ability to tolerate frustration. As it
sounds now, this is really important, and what we're actually
seeing with kids is because we have so much stimulation
in the world nowadays, there isn't actually that much opportunity
(24:33):
to be bored and so kids who are growing up
are not actually developing as much that capacity to sit
with discomfort what we refer to as that frustration tolerance.
I remember back in the days where I would go
to dinner with my parents and their friends and I
would sit at the dinner table and I would like
(24:55):
cut up little pieces of the napkin because I was
so bored, and I try and find ways to entertain myself. Nowadays,
we have iPads and laptops and all sorts of technologies
and social medias that mean that we don't have as
much opportunity to be bored, and so people are actually
losing this ability to sit with uncomfortable emotions.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
So it sounds like being in a rut is a
great opportunity to grow.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
It's how we use it. If we're able to identify
that we're in a rut and we can take some
actionable steps to change that, then it absolutely can be
a great opportunity for us to self reflect and make
some positive changes.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
After this shortbreak, we hear from one of you our listeners,
about a challenge that you're facing and get Anastasia's advice.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Bib barb Bibby, I'm having a serious crisis.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
BRB having a crisis.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Welcome back, friends, We have arrived to our BRB Having
a Crisis segment. Today we're hearing from Olivia.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Well, it just feels like going through the emotions log
in zone out countdown the hours. I can't really afford
to leave right now in Sydney, and I need the money.
The stability matters, but I won't lie. The rut is real,
and some days it's hard to keep pretending everything's fine
when I feel like really disconnected. I see things like
(26:25):
bare minimum, mondays and act your wage all over TikTok,
and while they make sense in theory, I'm not sure
if there's a solution or just a way you to
cope with burnout. I don't want to just check out.
I still want meaning, growth and a sense of progress
in my work because that's where I spend so much
(26:46):
time every week.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
So I guess I'm wondering, how do.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
You make peace with staying in a job for the
security while still finding small ways to still feel fulfilled
by your work.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Oh, Olivia, I hear you. It sucks to be stuck
in that work rut. And I guess what I really
hear is this tension, this kind of push pull of
feeling torn between that security and that stability that work gives,
but also wanting something a little bit more and a
bit different. For the Olivias of the world, what I
(27:19):
encourage you to do is zoom out, Zoom out and
take that big picture perspective on your life. Right this
moment is one moment in time, and being in a
temporary rut is not necessarily a bad thing. If we
can identify that what we're doing right now serves some
(27:41):
bigger picture purpose that's really important to us, then a
temporary rut is okay. If this is a necessary stepping
stone for you to get to that career goal that
you really want, then it can be okay to feel
a little dissatisfied now for that bigger picture goal that
you're working towards. What we don't want is someone to
(28:03):
feel like they're temporarily dissatisfied without that bigger why. That's
when we feel like someone is really kind of quite
lost and doesn't have that light at the end of
the tunnel that they're working towards. So I'd say, Olivia,
this doesn't sound sustainable unless you can give me your why.
(28:25):
What's your bigger picture why. I'd ask you to imagine
yourself in ten or twenty years time, looking back right now,
at this moment in your life. What advice would future
you give current you right now? Would future you be
looking at you in this moment and saying you know
(28:45):
what you got this, you can get through it, just
like push that little bit harder and it'll all be
worth it at the end. Or would future you be
looking at you right now and say what are you doing?
It's not actually worth it. You know you can find
another job. You can find for film and elsewhere. You
can have a life that looks so different to what
your current life is. This will help you clarify and
(29:06):
get perspective on what it's all for and whether you
should stick with it or make a change.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Good luck, Olivia, We are cheering you on from the sidelines. Okay, Anathasia,
can you sum up everything we learned today?
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yep, can do. First Off, being in a rut can
feel awful. Secondly, it only takes a few small changes
to actually get us out of a rut. Third use
that three P method to get yourself out of a rut.
If you're feeling stuck, try to tick off doing a
combination of activities each week that give you a sense
(29:49):
of pleasure, a feeling of progress, and a sense of purpose.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
I love the three p's. I love a good acronym,
and it's so easy to remember and generally really good
life advice. Next episode is one that I know so
many of us are going to benefit from.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
I'm going to tell you why you keep dating the
wrong people and exactly what to do about it.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
If you have a burning question, there's a few ways
to get in touch with us. Links are in the
show notes.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
And remember, while I am a psychologist, this podcast isn't
a diagnostic tool, and the advice and ideas we present
here should always take into account your personal history. The
executive producer of But Are You Happy is Nama Brown.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Tarlie Blackman is our senior producer.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Sound design and editing by Jacob Brown.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
I'm a Shiny Dante and I'm.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Doctor Anastasia Heronus. The names and stories of clients discussed
have been changed for the purpose of maintaining anonymity. If
this conversation brought up any difficult feelings for you, we
have links for more resources in the show notes around
the topics we discussed today. You can also reach out
to organizations like Beyond Blue or Lifeline if you're wanting
(31:04):
more immediate support.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Thanks for listening.
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Mamma Maya acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and
waters that this podcast is recorded on just feeling only
down these days and I don't know why. Have you
exercised today?
Speaker 1 (00:24):
No?
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Did you go outside?
Speaker 1 (00:25):
No?
Speaker 2 (00:26):
Did you talk to anyone?
Speaker 1 (00:27):
No? Did you eat well? No?
Speaker 2 (00:28):
Did you lim meet your scrolling time?
Speaker 1 (00:30):
No?
Speaker 2 (00:30):
Do you make any plans?
Speaker 1 (00:31):
No?
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Did you drink enough water?
Speaker 1 (00:33):
No?
Speaker 2 (00:33):
Did you get enough sleep?
Speaker 3 (00:34):
No?
Speaker 2 (00:35):
Wait, yes, yes to that one. Yeah, no, it's what
a mystery.
Speaker 1 (00:43):
For Mamma Mia. I'm your host, Ashanny Dante. Welcome to
But are you happy? Because a hot girl walk quotes
of everything?
Speaker 2 (00:52):
And I'm doctor Anastasia Hernus, a clinical psychologist passionate about happiness.
A question for you listener. Do you sometimes feel meh
or a bit blah?
Speaker 1 (01:04):
Are those technical terms, Anastasia.
Speaker 2 (01:08):
Well, not exactly, but they they are very strong indicators
a feeling like we're in a rut, like life has
gotten a bit too monotonous, too predictable, and isn't bringing
us any joy.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
Oh, that's stuck feeling. Honestly, it's the worst it is.
Speaker 2 (01:25):
But it can also be a great opportunity for growth.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
Which you're going to teach us all about today, right, Yep,
let's get straight in, okay, anaesthesia, Let's start with a
little bit of orientation, because I can imagine the feeling
being stuck in a rut might be a symptom of
depression for some people, whereas for others it might just
be about being in a big life transition or navigating change.
(01:53):
Can you give us a bit of a framework for
how to even begin with this conversation?
Speaker 2 (01:57):
Absolutely? So, being in a rut again, is not a
clinical definition or term that we would use as clinical psychologists,
but it's certainly something that people report feeling, and I
guess it can mean different things for different people. So
in my practice with my clients, being stuck in a
rut can sometimes be an indicator of something like depression.
(02:21):
For other people, it might just be an indicator that
they don't have enough fun and spontaneity and excitement or
novelty happening in their life, And for other people it
can be a symptom of something we refer to as languishing.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
What is languishing?
Speaker 2 (02:36):
Yeah, so languishing and flourishing are two terms that I
guess I want to introduce as existing on ends of
a spectrum. Now, some of our listeners might be familiar
with the concept of languishing. It did the rounds during COVID,
and that's actually when I first heard about this term.
So this idea of languishing and flourishing refer to our
(02:59):
well being. So if I start off with flourishing first,
So flourishing is this idea of self described subjective well being,
this kind of optimal level of functioning in life. I
feel really good subjectively. If I were to describe to
someone how I feel, it's overall pretty good. I have excitement,
(03:19):
I have enjoyment, I have fulfillment in my life. That's flourishing. Languishing,
on the other end of the spectrum, describes this state
of apathy, a sense of feeling unsettled, a bit restless,
a bit bored, kind of that sense of meh and
block that we were talking about at the start, and
(03:41):
maybe we kind of just don't feel like we're interested
in many things in life. That's languishing. So what I
want to highlight is that languishing is not the same
as having a diagnosable mental health condition like depression. So
languishing and depression are two different things. Someone can feel
like they're languishing in life, so going through life not
(04:03):
feeling particularly satisfied, feeling a bit restless and bored, but
that doesn't necessarily mean that they're depressed. On the flip side,
someone can have a diagnosed mental illness like schizophrenia, and
they can be flourishing in life. They can be living
a life that feels to them actually really quite full
(04:25):
and satisfying and happy.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
So essentially, even if you have a mental health condition,
you can be flourishing.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
Absolutely interesting because flourishing is that self described experience of
how I feel in my life at this point in time.
Speaker 1 (04:40):
So how do I know if I'm languishing or if
I'm depressed.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
So depression in the sense of how we clinically define it,
according to the diagnostic manual, it's essentially having approximately five
symptoms over a two week period. Now I'll go through
what those symptoms are. So one of the symptoms needs
to be a depressed mood, so that is feeling quite low, flat, dissatisfied, hopeless, helpless.
(05:10):
Symptom is needing to feel like I have a loss
of interest in the activities that I'm usually quite interested in.
So if I usually love going out and kayaking, and
all of a sudden, I have no interest in going
out kayaking, that could be an indicator of depression. But
there's some others as well. So it might be that
there are significant weight changes for me, so I'm either
(05:31):
gaining weight or I'm losing weight. It might be that
I notice I have changes in my sleep patterns. I'm
either sleeping too much or I'm not sleeping enough. It
might be that I feel quite agitated and restless day
to day. It might be that I feel quite worthless
in myself. I don't feel like I have enough confidence
and worth in myself. And it sometimes even is for
(05:53):
people recurrent thoughts of harming themselves or suicide. And what
we're looking for is at least five of those symptoms
to classify as a diagnosis for depression.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
So then what about then with languishing, What are the
characteristics for that?
Speaker 2 (06:11):
The characteristics for languishing would be more so around that
feeling of being dissatisfied, restless, uneasy, sometimes bored, but that
kind of like frustration that comes with boredom, so I
don't necessarily notice the impact in other areas of my life,
where my weight's changing, my sleep is changing, I feel worthless,
(06:31):
I'm having suicidal thoughts. That's not quite what we'd be
seeing with languishing. It's more that feeling of being like,
I just don't feel like I'm in the right spot
in life right now.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
So then depression they have to show up with. They
have to have the five because if they had one
of those five, you wouldn't classify that as depression.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yeah, so if someone only had one of those symptoms,
we wouldn't diagnose depression. And I guess the way research
and the mental health world works, we have categories, so
we have cutoffs for everything, and that's because we need
some way of categorizing symptoms, diagnoses, and people. But realistically,
you know, if someone came in with three or four
(07:11):
of those symptoms, I would say to that person, you
sit in what we would refer to as a subclinical range.
You are showing some signs of depression, but you just
don't quite meet that cutoff, so it's what we refer
to as subclinical. So I'll give you an example of
someone that I worked with. We'll call him Ben. He's
a twenty one year old young guy. He was studying
(07:31):
at Uni. He was actually studying accounting. His father was
in the accounting world and had a business, and the
plan was for him to follow in his father's footsteps.
He was really gifted and skilled when it came to sports.
He was a long distance runner, and so from the
outside it kind of seems like he was ticking some boxes.
He was at Uni, he was studying, he was doing
(07:52):
his sports. He had a kind of trajectory going forward
for what some parts of his life would look like.
But he came to the therapy room and he was
just telling me, He's like, I just don't feel happy.
I just feel like and he actually used the words
rush like he was in some sort of rush, Like
he felt stuck, but he couldn't quite pin point what
the problem was. And objectively things seemed okay, but he
(08:15):
was unsatisfied. And so I worked with Ben a lot
around how do we kind of figure out what's causing
this rut and then how do we help you get
out of it?
Speaker 1 (08:23):
So, how did you explain to Ben around being in
a right like? Why do we get stuck in ruts?
Speaker 2 (08:30):
This has got a bit of a biological basis to it.
Once again, we are fundamentally creatures of habit. This goes
for all of us. We don't like change, right, Change
comes with some degree of fear, Change is risky, change
is new. And often what we find is that people
(08:52):
will do the same thing over and over again, even
if they know it's not quite good for them, because
we don't like change.
Speaker 1 (08:59):
So what's the neuroscience behind being stuck in a riot?
Speaker 2 (09:02):
Yeah, our brains are wired to seek out patterns. We
like routines because they provide us with sense of security,
but they also reduce the mental load. We all have
some degree of mental capacity and finite mental resources that
we can use in any one day, and so we
need those heuristics, those ways of being able to kind
(09:24):
of make quick decisions, those patterns and those routines because
they reduce the mental load. If I give you an example,
if every time I got in the car to drive
to work it was as effortful as the first time
I drove, that would be a really tiring day for me.
So over time, the more we do something with practice,
the easier it becomes. And we actually have a bit
(09:46):
of a saying in the neuroscience world. Neurons that fire together.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
Wire together I've heard that one like birds.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Of a feather flock together. Neurons that fire together wire together.
So essentially what that means is the more we do something,
whatever that might be, drive to work, type on my laptop,
ride a bike, whatever it is, the more I do it,
the more the neurons in my brain become strengthened. That
parthway in the brain becomes strengthened, so it becomes quicker
(10:13):
and easier to action that. Now, that can be a
really helpful thing, But coming back to ruts, it can
also be something that keeps us stuck in a rut
because we get stuck in the same routine, that same
pattern and routine becomes very easy for us to execute,
and it's harder and more effortful to do new things.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
So I really want to ask you about dopamine. Where
does dopamine come into all of this?
Speaker 2 (10:39):
Oh, dopamine.
Speaker 1 (10:39):
I wrote a whole book on this, so I talk
for hours two about dopamine.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
So I'm glad you asked. Dopamine is a neurotransmitter in
the brain. So a neurotransmitter is essentially a chemical messenger
that sends a message between the brain and the central
nervous system. Now, dopamine does a whole lot of things
in the brain and body that I won't get into,
but what I will say is dopamine is responsible for
(11:09):
the fear feeling of short term pleasure and gratification. So
I love a donut self disclosure, I love donuts. So
when I pick up a donut and bite into it
and it tastes delicious, dopamine is firing in my brain.
It's that short term feeling of like, oh, yeah, this
(11:31):
is good, right, that's dopamine. But dope meine does something
else very important. Dopamine also fires and activates in the
brain to motivate me to seek out that pleasurable thing
again and again and again. So when I'm sitting in
my office and it's three o'clock in the afternoon and
I go, oh, you know what would be great right now?
(11:53):
A donut, Dopamine is already firing in my brain and
it motivates me to get up out of my chair,
go downstairs, go to the cafe, buy that donut, and
take a bite.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
So does that mean essentially people that are stuck in
a rut they don't have enough dopamine firing inside of them,
is that kind of what you're saying.
Speaker 2 (12:14):
What they might not have is enough novelty and excitement
because the brain does like things that are new, and
when that's when dopamine is activated, it wants us to
seek out pleasurable things. But we can also build a tolerance.
So this is where we see things like addictions come
into play. I'll use video gaming as an example. Actually,
(12:35):
because Ben, the client that I spoke about, he would
spend a lot of time playing video games, and we
identified that this was one of the things keeping him
a bit stuck in a rut. He loved gaming and
it wasn't exactly something I wanted to take away from him,
right My advice was not to stop gaming. But what
happens is that we can build a tolerance in terms
of dopamine activation, and so something that was once quite
(12:59):
enjoyable and exciting no longer feels that enjoyable and exciting.
We're still drawn to it because dopamine draws us back
to it, but we don't get that same threat, real
or pleasure from it anymore.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
So what about the other end of the spectrum, like
the adrenaline seekers that you know want to jump off
a cliff every weekend. What about them?
Speaker 2 (13:21):
So, one of the things we find commonly through society
at the moment is that we are all getting smaller,
more frequent hits of dopamine activation and technology has a
lot to do with this. So what some people might
feel the need to do is to go to those
extreme lengths so that they can get those big hits
of dopamine. They're jumping off cliffs, or they're you know,
(13:41):
doing extreme sports, or in the case of things like addiction,
they're needing to use more and more of a substance
or a behavior to get that same feeling as they
once did.
Speaker 1 (13:52):
So what is getting out of a rut look like? Like?
What's the goal?
Speaker 2 (13:56):
It's balance? Ultimately, it really comes down to balance. We
all want and need those pleasurable moments, right. Dopamine is important.
It gives us that joy, that pleasure in life, and
I'm not here to take that away from anyone, but
we don't want to be just doing those pleasurable things
in excess. We need to be able to balance that
with the things that give us a greater sense of
(14:18):
meaning and purpose in life as well.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
After this shortbreak, doctor Anastasia is going to teach you
the three key principles to help us get out of
a rut. Stay with us, okay, Anastasia. So we now
know the difference between being in a rut versus being depressed.
And I feel like we have a sense now of
what exactly is going on in our brains. But what
do we do now to get out of this rut?
Speaker 2 (14:43):
When we're stuck in a rut? We want to ensure
that we have a balance of three different kinds of
activities in our day to day life. And I'm going
to talk to you what those three are. It's the
three P method, as I like to call it.
Speaker 1 (14:56):
Love a good acronym. I'm here for it, yes.
Speaker 2 (14:59):
And in fact, this is what I went through with
that client Ben that I mentioned earlier, who was stuck
in quite a rut and wanted some help feeling more
fulfilled and satisfied in life. So there's three many types
of activities that I recommend everyone has in their day
to day life. So this applies whether you're stuck in
a rut or not. We all need three different kinds
(15:21):
of activities in our life. So the first P stands
for pleasure. We all need things in our day to day,
week to week lives that are fun and enjoyable, and
we simply do them because we like them, So they
(15:41):
don't necessarily serve a bigger purpose other than we do
them because they're nice and they're fun. So these might
be things like going to the cinema to see a movie,
having a coffee with a friends, getting a massage, you know,
anything that's just kind of nice to do and it
doesn't have to fulfill that bigger picture purpose in our life.
So for me, I love watching reality TV. I said it,
(16:06):
there we go. I love those music shows, the Australian idols,
the Voice that for me, that's pleasure. I love watching that.
I love going to live music, I love attending gigs.
So for me, those are the kinds of things that
fulfill the pleasurable pe in my life. I don't know, Shanne,
if you've got things that you do simply for pleasure.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
It's really interesting because when you're talking about pleasure and
giving those examples, what comes up for me because I've
been on this relationship with pleasure and being like, how
much is too much? When we're getting pleasure from external
things like should I just be you know, focusing on
gratitude or things that I can do without spending money.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
Do you know what I mean? Pleasure is sometimes a
hard one for people to talk about, right, They're like,
do I deserve pleasure? Should I have pleasure? Where should
pleasure come from? And I want to say to people,
don't overthink it. Just do stuff that feels good as
long as it's imbalance with the other two pi's that
are to come.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
I feel like, for me, I'm a simple kind of girl.
I love spending time with my husband, I love my
morning matches, and I love spending time in nature. All right,
so we've done number on one pleasure, what's the next one?
Speaker 2 (17:13):
So the second P stands for progress. We all need
to do things in our days, in our weeks that
give us the sense that we are progressing with something
in life, a sense of achievement that we can sort
of hold on to. So for many of us, we
might actually get this through our work. We might feel
like every day I show up to work, I make
(17:34):
progress with something and then I feel pretty good about myself.
But it could also be other skills. So think learning
a musical instrument, learning a new language, and hitting a
streak on dur lingo, or you know, growing a garden
and cultivating a garden and keeping those plants alive. Anything
that gives us a sense of progress in life is
(17:56):
really important for our sense of self and our sense
of worth.
Speaker 1 (18:01):
I really like that too, because something that I've spoken
about with one of my coaching clients, because it also
has to match your capacity as well, especially if you
have in a rut, so it's kind of retweaking it.
So for example, it's as simple as hey, you made
your bed this morning. That is progress. You know, sometimes
we can put these far fetched goals and then we
(18:22):
feel like we're constantly losing as well. So it's figuring
out what that looks like, because it's going to look
different for everyone.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
Absolutely, the goals need to be realistic and achievable. And
this is not too dissimilar to something I would do
with someone who did have a diagnosis of depression. It's
just that the sense of progress, as you say, would
be made to be much more achievable for that person
in the situation that they're in. So if I come
back to Ben, the client I was talking about earlier,
(18:49):
he had actually he was ticking the box when it
came to progress right. He was at Uni. He was
you know, doing his assessments going through the course, and
he also had his long distance running that he was
very invested in and he was doing really quite well
at So he was ticking the box when it came
to a sense of progress and achievement in life. If
I think about my own life to play the piano.
(19:11):
I've played the piano my whole life, and for me
that's been something that has given me that sense of
achievement and progress because every time I sit down to
practice or learn a new piece and I finally play
it through without any mistakes, that's a sense of achievement
for me, and it ticks that box of progressing with something.
Is there anything in your life, a Shanee, where you
(19:31):
feel like it ticks that box of making progress?
Speaker 1 (19:35):
This is a really interesting question, and I feel like
I actually don't know because I feel like I have
constantly gratified myself from progress. I like the ticking the
box thing has always felt really good, but I've seen
the implications of that on me, like I get really
burnt out or stressed, and at the moment, I'm not sure.
(19:57):
I'll have to get back to you. Food for thought,
food for thought. Okay, what's the last pe?
Speaker 2 (20:03):
So our last piece stands for purpose.
Speaker 1 (20:07):
Nice.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
We all need to do things throughout our lives and
day to day, week to week that align with our
core values that give us a bigger sense of purpose
in life. It's this idea of being part of something
that's bigger than just ourselves. So examples of this might
be cooking a meal for a loved one or advocating
(20:31):
for a cause that's important to us. So this sense
of purpose encompasses being part of something that's bigger than ourselves,
and it often encompasses this notion of giving. We're giving
a part of ourselves to someone else or to something else.
So for me, I get a lot of purpose through community,
and that community shows up in different ways. So I
(20:53):
get it through friendship communities, I get it through my family.
I get it through the Greek cultural community that I'm
a part of. But it's really important to me to
show up in those spaces and be myself and give
something of myself to those community groups.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
I love that. So did Ben have a purpose?
Speaker 2 (21:11):
This is what Ben was struggling with. So Ben was
great with the progress, He didn't have a whole lot
of the first P pleasure, so we had to do
some readjusting there. But he also was really unclear on
what purpose meant for him. And look, he's twenty one
years old. I didn't expect him to kind of show
up in the world with a clearly defined sense of purpose.
(21:32):
And that's fine. We all go through this journey of
finding what our purpose is and what purpose means to us,
and it can mean all sorts of things. But we
did a lot of work that was around clarifying his values,
getting him to understand what he truly wanted in life,
not what his family told him he should want, or
what society told him he should want, or you know,
(21:53):
continuing to put pressure on himself to achieve in all
these ways where he was quite successful with his sports.
We had to strip it back and help him identify
what did he want, what was pleasurable for him in life,
but what was meaningful and purposeful for him as well.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
I feel like even with purpose too, because it can
feel really overwhelming. You hear the word thrown around a lot,
and I can imagine, especially someone as young as Ben,
freaking out being like, I don't know, I really love
that you took that space to simplify it because it
is really that simple. And then also it's okay to
not know yet.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Yes, well absolutely, And these three p's serve as a framework.
We don't need to be ticking them all off every
single day, but for the most part in our life,
we do want to have some sense of balance with them.
And what we find is that when there isn't that
balance in place, that's when people can start to feel
out of sorts in some sort of way. So the
(22:49):
next step that I actually recommend to all the listeners
out there is sit down and do a bit of
an audit of your week. Think back to last week
and write down for yourself, what did I do through
my week that fulfilled pleasure? What did I do through
my week that fulfilled a sense of progress? And what
(23:11):
did I do through my week that fulfilled a sense
of purpose? And just notice if there are any bits
that are off balance, maybe you're doing heaps of progress
but not enough of the other two. And that's where
we can clearly identify where we can recalibrate things, and
some actions and some goals that we can set for
ourselves that are going to help us feel overall more
(23:34):
satisfied and fulfilled and like we're flourishing in life.
Speaker 1 (23:38):
And we're getting out of that rut. Yes, so you
set a sign of being in a rut? Is being
bored Is boredom always a bad thing?
Speaker 2 (23:47):
No, Boredom is definitely not always a bad thing. Boredom
sometimes doesn't feel great, just like we've talked about other emotions.
Anxiety doesn't feel great, Guilt doesn't feel great, Boredom doesn't
feel great. But they serve a purpose, and boredom can
be a great opportunity for other things to grow. Right.
Boredom is sometimes where creativity comes about. Boredom also helps
(24:10):
us build a very necessary tool that we refer to
as frustration tolerance, our ability to tolerate frustration. As it
sounds now, this is really important, and what we're actually
seeing with kids is because we have so much stimulation
in the world nowadays, there isn't actually that much opportunity
(24:33):
to be bored and so kids who are growing up
are not actually developing as much that capacity to sit
with discomfort what we refer to as that frustration tolerance.
I remember back in the days where I would go
to dinner with my parents and their friends and I
would sit at the dinner table and I would like
(24:55):
cut up little pieces of the napkin because I was
so bored, and I try and find ways to entertain myself. Nowadays,
we have iPads and laptops and all sorts of technologies
and social medias that mean that we don't have as
much opportunity to be bored, and so people are actually
losing this ability to sit with uncomfortable emotions.
Speaker 1 (25:18):
So it sounds like being in a rut is a
great opportunity to grow.
Speaker 2 (25:22):
It's how we use it. If we're able to identify
that we're in a rut and we can take some
actionable steps to change that, then it absolutely can be
a great opportunity for us to self reflect and make
some positive changes.
Speaker 1 (25:37):
After this shortbreak, we hear from one of you our listeners,
about a challenge that you're facing and get Anastasia's advice.
Speaker 3 (25:47):
Bib barb Bibby, I'm having a serious crisis.
Speaker 2 (25:51):
BRB having a crisis.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
Welcome back, friends, We have arrived to our BRB Having
a Crisis segment. Today we're hearing from Olivia.
Speaker 3 (26:02):
Well, it just feels like going through the emotions log
in zone out countdown the hours. I can't really afford
to leave right now in Sydney, and I need the money.
The stability matters, but I won't lie. The rut is real,
and some days it's hard to keep pretending everything's fine
when I feel like really disconnected. I see things like
(26:25):
bare minimum, mondays and act your wage all over TikTok,
and while they make sense in theory, I'm not sure
if there's a solution or just a way you to
cope with burnout. I don't want to just check out.
I still want meaning, growth and a sense of progress
in my work because that's where I spend so much
(26:46):
time every week.
Speaker 2 (26:48):
So I guess I'm wondering, how do.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
You make peace with staying in a job for the
security while still finding small ways to still feel fulfilled
by your work.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Oh, Olivia, I hear you. It sucks to be stuck
in that work rut. And I guess what I really
hear is this tension, this kind of push pull of
feeling torn between that security and that stability that work gives,
but also wanting something a little bit more and a
bit different. For the Olivias of the world, what I
(27:19):
encourage you to do is zoom out, Zoom out and
take that big picture perspective on your life. Right this
moment is one moment in time, and being in a
temporary rut is not necessarily a bad thing. If we
can identify that what we're doing right now serves some
(27:41):
bigger picture purpose that's really important to us, then a
temporary rut is okay. If this is a necessary stepping
stone for you to get to that career goal that
you really want, then it can be okay to feel
a little dissatisfied now for that bigger picture goal that
you're working towards. What we don't want is someone to
(28:03):
feel like they're temporarily dissatisfied without that bigger why. That's
when we feel like someone is really kind of quite
lost and doesn't have that light at the end of
the tunnel that they're working towards. So I'd say, Olivia,
this doesn't sound sustainable unless you can give me your why.
(28:25):
What's your bigger picture why. I'd ask you to imagine
yourself in ten or twenty years time, looking back right now,
at this moment in your life. What advice would future
you give current you right now? Would future you be
looking at you in this moment and saying you know
(28:45):
what you got this, you can get through it, just
like push that little bit harder and it'll all be
worth it at the end. Or would future you be
looking at you right now and say what are you doing?
It's not actually worth it. You know you can find
another job. You can find for film and elsewhere. You
can have a life that looks so different to what
your current life is. This will help you clarify and
(29:06):
get perspective on what it's all for and whether you
should stick with it or make a change.
Speaker 1 (29:12):
Good luck, Olivia, We are cheering you on from the sidelines. Okay, Anathasia,
can you sum up everything we learned today?
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Yep, can do. First Off, being in a rut can
feel awful. Secondly, it only takes a few small changes
to actually get us out of a rut. Third use
that three P method to get yourself out of a rut.
If you're feeling stuck, try to tick off doing a
combination of activities each week that give you a sense
(29:49):
of pleasure, a feeling of progress, and a sense of purpose.
Speaker 1 (29:54):
I love the three p's. I love a good acronym,
and it's so easy to remember and generally really good
life advice. Next episode is one that I know so
many of us are going to benefit from.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
I'm going to tell you why you keep dating the
wrong people and exactly what to do about it.
Speaker 1 (30:13):
If you have a burning question, there's a few ways
to get in touch with us. Links are in the
show notes.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
And remember, while I am a psychologist, this podcast isn't
a diagnostic tool, and the advice and ideas we present
here should always take into account your personal history. The
executive producer of But Are You Happy is Nama Brown.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Tarlie Blackman is our senior producer.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Sound design and editing by Jacob Brown.
Speaker 1 (30:40):
I'm a Shiny Dante and I'm.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
Doctor Anastasia Heronus. The names and stories of clients discussed
have been changed for the purpose of maintaining anonymity. If
this conversation brought up any difficult feelings for you, we
have links for more resources in the show notes around
the topics we discussed today. You can also reach out
to organizations like Beyond Blue or Lifeline if you're wanting
(31:04):
more immediate support.
Speaker 1 (31:06):
Thanks for listening.
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