July 10, 2024 • 22 mins
This is part two of our conversation with actor, musician and mental health advocate Rob Mills. If you haven't listened to part one yet - click here.
In part two, Rob opens up about his relationship with TV presenter Georgie Tunny and gives us a sneak peek into their wedding planning.
Plus, he also shares his thoughts on why it's so important for men to open up about their mental health and reflects on his journey with his sexuality after years of media speculation.
THE END BITS
Listen to Part One of this conversation here.
Listen to last week's episode: Laura Byrne On Feeling The Pressure To “Fix” The Way She Looks
If you want to learn more about Rob Mills, read his book Putting on a Show: Manhood, Mates and Mental Health
GET IN TOUCH:
Share your story, feedback, or dilemma! Send us a voice message or email us at podcast@mamamia.com.au
CREDITS:
Host: Clare Stephens
Guest: Rob Mills
Audio Producer: Scott Stronach
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
Support the show: https://www.mamamia.com.au/mplus/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Mama Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and
waters that this podcast is recorded.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
On Hello, it's producer to listen here and welcome to
part two of this episode of But Are You Happy?
With actor, musician and Australia's boyfriend Rob Mills. In part
one of this chat, you heard about the time Rob
was at his lowest while in the spotlight on stage,
(00:41):
his experience with Idol which wasn't quite what it seemed,
and the one thing he hopes the media will just
stop talking about. If you haven't heard part one of
this chat, it's best to start there. So there's a
link in the show notes. But here is part two
of Claire Stephens chat with Rob Mills.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
You are engaged, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Can you just plan our wording for us as we're
not going to it?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
No, what you have to do. You have to do
what I did, which was you give yourself a really
short deadline period of time and then you actually can't
make decisions because there are no choices available.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
This is good.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
So it's like choose a florist. There's one forlorest who
can do it? Choose a venue. There's only one place
that has a gap, so I think that will work.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Like I confused with the amount of toothpaste choices, like
very stressful. It's very stressful. When do I want my
teeth to be whier now a little bit later or
very difficult? So we have decision paralysis. We're going away
overseas in September. You're just gonna get married of.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Just a lope.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, but like it doesn't count anyways. You have to
come back and get married at the registry office and stuff.
So I don't think so. But maybe we'll go find
somewhere that we both like and fall in love with,
and then maybe we'll just do it there. Who knows.
At this stage, you're just looking forward to a holiday.
But yeah, we'd love to get married. I can't imagine
it's going to be a very big thing. Our life
is a gig, so like, I don't need the wedding
(02:06):
to be another gig. Just wanted to be, like because
I what a live band and just like have my
mates get up and sing and then that's it. That's
pretty small.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
You posted in twenty twenty, and this was before your book,
and you write about it in your book. About losing
two of your friends to cancer, and you wrote in
the post I'm tired and I'm sad, and you were
really honest about not feeling good at that time. And
it was a time where a lot of people were
(02:37):
struggling because it was COVID. And were you in Melbourne?
Speaker 1 (02:40):
D're in COVID. Yeah, yeah, we were in the city
city apartment.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
And why Yeah the city was so dead. It must
have been dead.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah, it must have been a really dark time for
a lot of reasons. How has death and grief changed
how you think about your own life?
Speaker 1 (03:01):
It definitely starts the clock. I'm post forty now, but yeah,
losing friends who were forty and fifty, Yeah, it was
pretty pretty sad, pretty terrifying. Also, like cancer, why why
are they going after the good people? And the paper
the good people? I think it helps put things in
(03:21):
perspective and makes you maybe motivated to do the things
that you need to do in this lifetime and knowing
that you have a limited amount of time and to
use it to the best of your capabilities. Yeah, I
think that's what it does, I think for a lot
of people. But also yeah, during that time, it's we
talked about this before, about the importance of community, but yeah,
(03:44):
where are they? They're all online. It's weird, Like I
want to see people. I think I remember talking about
this about in the article, Like when we did catch up,
we just drink and then just feel worse. Like, what's
the activities that we can do together that help us
grieve and help us connect without without the booze. We
don't really have that in Australia. Yeah, super important to
(04:06):
acknowledge to grieve with your people during that time. That
was really really hard to do. You know, for all
the people who lost loved ones during that during that time,
I can't even even imagine not being able to go
to the hospital or not being able to be at
the funeral, Like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
It was unnatural. It didn't feel happens again. Yeah, it
didn't feel right to not be able to be with
people when they were suffering and you were suffering and
there was this physical distance. And I think it was
a really clarifying time in terms of how important it
is to actually be with people in a real sense.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Okay, so this is a question for you. Do you
think we've straight after everyone was like hanging out all
the time. Have we gone back again.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, I think we settled at do less. I do
less socially than I did pre COVID.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
You also have a baby now, yes, But I.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Think even before baby, I think people have retreated a
little bit from society.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
They forget that that was the and thing that we
were switching for. Why do we go It's me and
my job and that's all that matters. And no, you're
going to burn out again. You're going to find the thing,
oh I need of the community. Yes.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Yeah, you write in your book about this idea of
men obviously needing to talk more, have more in depth conversations,
and about how often the way men do that is
side by side rather than facing each other. And it's
something that I think a lot of people will will notice.
(05:42):
The men in their lives are a lot better when
they're half distracted and you can have a conversation, you.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Can washing the dishes or cooking and have chats about
stuff getting to doing a task.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
I read something the other day that it was kind
of written from the perspective of a man, and it said, like,
I'm not scared of being vulnerable, I'm scared of sounding stupid.
That like they feel like they don't have the words.
Do you think that's part of it?
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I remember talking about my about this when my book
came out. She's, like I said, generally speaking, women are
much better at communicating and talking. They've been doing it
for much longer uder age, it's encouraged. It's all these
things right, And I said, would it be okay if
women help men in this regard? Like you no, you
what woman to do? You're better add it? Just help
(06:28):
us help and not judge so much for not being
good at it, because I think there's a lot of
blokes out there that do bot to talk. They don't
have the words, so go for that walk. And also
don't do it all the time. I think as men,
we feel uncomfortable, so therefore we don't do the thing. Yeah,
that's good. I like that. I'm going to use that.
But also we don't like doing it all the time
(06:48):
because we've already talked about it. Yeah, while you bring
this up again, we just talked about it. Let me
go away and process this, or let me go away
and think about it, or put it in a box
and I'll won't deal with it for ages. But like
they bring it up all the time, just bring it
up once, you know, and let them go and think
about it on his own maybe, but yeah, the walk
(07:08):
side by side, go for a drive in the car
doing a task together. Yeah, or just call up a
mate and go, can you take it for a walk
and just find out what's going on. All that stuff
helps men hold onto a lot of the research that
I did for the book Guilt Shame more so than
women versus said, I'm generally speaking, this is just the
(07:30):
research that I've done and it's not helpful and we
don't really know how to get out of it. For
some blokes it's too much and they just will end
their lives, which is horrific. But we do respond well
to connection to other chats are UKDA is coming up,
And I think it's really important for people to understand
(07:51):
that if you don't have that connection with someone, find
the person that does to have that chat. You can't
just walk up to someone you don't really know, are
you okay? Like I don't know you, I don't.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I'm not going to tell you.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
No, yea. And for blokes, this takes years sometimes to
build trust with someone in order to have those conversations
and the shit banter that a lot of women hate
that blokes do. That's trust building. You know, we neg
each other, we give each other ship.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
That's actually and talking about the footy whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
That is building trust, yes, and that sometimes that takes
a long time. But if we get to a place
where okay, all that shit talking. Gus Wallen talks about
it his Charity's Got Your for Life and he says,
you know, just five percent real chat would be great
amongst blokes And I'm like, oh, I probably like twenty
five yeah, but that's more men. I'm in the arts,
(08:42):
but yeah, five percent would great. Somewhere in the middle
there'd be awesome. But let us have our bands out,
like we can't just have real chats at the top.
It's fucking exhausting. You get compassion fatigue talking about feelings
and yuck. It's not but you do need to let
off the valve at some stage. But yeah, that's a
good reminder for AUKD know that you might not be
(09:03):
the person, but find someone who is. And it might
be a counselor it might be a professional or or
ask them do you want to have it about this?
You know, if not, it's totally cool as well. It
shouldn't just be one day.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
There's a mental health crisis among men, and I think
the struggle to kind of be vulnerable and even have
the language around how they're feeling is a huge part
of it. And you know, we know that women are
socialized talk about that stuff more and men are not.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
And do you want us to you know, there's bass
sounds in it, Like I think for a lot of blokes,
I just I just had this thought, they're like, for
shit at something, give a shit about it? Yeah, going,
why are you shit at it? Like you're really shit
at this? You know, like got it from a playful
kind of perspective that might help break the ice maybe
as well. We don't like to be told off, No
(09:57):
one likes to be told but like going with a
playful nagging energy, maybe I don't know, like that's a
way to break down the barrier for bokes.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I am terrible because I think there is a bit
of shame that goes on in a bit of kind
of putting shit on men about this. And if anybody
just sits in it and thinks when I get ship
put on me, I'm not motivated change I'm not And
you can.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Or go towards something where I'm accepted. Yeah, which is
I think is happening for say, a lot of men,
for some men. And I don't want to overconflate the
addrew Tate supporters of this world who are Yeah, blocks
are awesome. Yeah, blocks are awesome. They can also be
kind and compassionate and vulnerable as well.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
It's giving them creation.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
What have you got a vagina like whatever? I don't know.
I don't. Yeah, he's not your messiah. No, no, no
one is. Take something from from everyone is always my advice.
But yeah, I think for some blocks they do well.
I can't be accepted here, so I'll go to where
I am accepted, where I don't have to talk about
feelings and I can just be exactly that's helpful. I
(11:08):
don't think it's helpful.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Little in your twenties, you experimented with your sexuality, and
it was a different time to what it is now
for people in their twenties. And I'm also interested because
you had developed a fan base of me, these really
enthusiastic girls. Was there any part of you that didn't
(11:30):
want to be honest about exploring a sexuality at that
time as a career move.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
No, I never thought it was a career move. I
just thought it was just like personally, I just thought, oh,
I don't know, I don't know what this is. Yeah.
So I'd been with a couple of guys and I
was very honest with Georgie when we first met. She's like, going, great,
it's amazing, Like, oh, okay, this is amazing. Look, I
don't want to like put myself in the category because
(11:57):
it's cool, but I do consider myself probably queer, Like
I think I love the person more so than just
the sex, although I do love the sex. Yeah. So
I think at the time, I was like, maybe there
was shame around it, and I think that's why I
wanted to put it in the book and talk about
It's like, I think there's a lot of young men
that want to explore these things, but a fear of judgment,
(12:19):
Like because when you're a kid, you try out netball,
you try baseball, soccer, you try so many different things
to try and work out what you like, Like i'd
be people as well. Why is that weird? So I
think I wanted to not make other young men feel
the same way, or women or trans kids, you know,
feel othered. It just is, and who cares? Who cares
(12:41):
how you feel about other people society who get Like, honestly,
who cares? It doesn't actually make a difference in their
day to day but it matters to you. So yeah,
go explore, do the things, try it out. I'm enjoying
the rise in people coming to terms with their gender
as well. A lot of I suppose conservative people like,
but why do we care? Like they don't care.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Like, just let white people talking about it, like.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
The meatia is talking about it because it's a thing
that generates clickbait. If it doesn't affect you, It's like
looking at the menu. I don't want that, then don't
it's something else? Yeah yeah, yeah, just there's something else
on the menu for you, Like, don't look at that story.
What are they talking about? It's important to them? Yeah
the end. Yeah, just like that. I'm just trying to
break down the taboo around it. But yeah, I like
(13:25):
the fact that there are more gender discussions happening and
openly happening. I think that's all it is. I don't
think they want any special prefluence or anything anyone does.
It's just like, let us exist and then just let's
break down the taboo around it or the stigma.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Up next a message from his fiance that brings Rob
to tears. When you think about your own life and
you think about potentially being an old man and looking
back on your life, what do you think it's going
(14:02):
to have been that made you the happiest? Oh?
Speaker 1 (14:05):
This is good. Can I tell you a fun story?
Few years ago, I was doing some work with the
Reach Foundation, which I started by Jim Steins and Paul Curry.
Is excellent. We love Reach that you go out and
do empowering workshops for kids all across the country. They're fantastic.
And one of the workshops I went to, we all
had to get up and give our own eulogy. They'd
set up a casket or like a makeshift casket, and
(14:27):
you stood up in front of it and you did
your own eulogy and you talked about your own life.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Oh my gosh, what did you say?
Speaker 1 (14:33):
I said to the thousands and attendance and the millions
watching around the world. I wanted to start with a gag,
just to break my own I remember talking about having
performed at some of the world's best stages, and which
I still think is highly possible. Although very tight. Now,
(14:53):
I've probably had a lot more drive in me. That's
probably fifteen years ago. If I look back when I'm older,
just the really great life and that had helped people
along the way feel better about themselves. I think that's
what I whether it's through entertaining them on the stage
or it's just a one on one cover station and
I've fustered really good friendships. I think that's something I
(15:14):
have struggled with my entire life, but it's something I
would like to get better at and to finally have
learned a lot of songs on guitar, which I keep
putting on this pod. Jervy Show will help me face
my fears of playing guitar in front of people.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Before I asked my last question, be.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
A good dad, I should also put it and be
a good dad.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
So you want kids?
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yeah, totally, yeah, just like just wait, just waiting. At
least we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
It before we ask our last question. We did have
one little thing that we did as a bit of
a gift for you, and it is a lovely little
message from your Beyonce Georgie II.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
They are my favorite.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
I am thinking that you may have been talking a
little bit about me on this podcast. Hopefully you focus
on my smart sex equalities and not just how average
I am at domestic duties.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I've not said any of this, and if you've been.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
Talking about me, what on earth have you been talking about?
But since this podcast is largely about happiness and our
relationship with it, I know that Claire has a very
important question to ask you very very soon.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Hi Claire, by the way, it's like she's here.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
I just thought, though, Robert, that I would remind you
how much happiness you bring to my life and everyone
who's lucky enough to know you. I think that a
lot of the time we make our own luck. But
when it comes to you, Robert Mills, anyone who knows you,
(16:57):
who's lucky enough to know you to meet you, has
won the fucking lottery. You are the kindest, most generous
and joyous soul that I have met. I'm so lucky, fortunate, blessed,
enter another synonym here. That I fell in love with
(17:20):
you and that you fell in love with me. You're
first to keep learning and stay curious is number one hot,
but number two I think what makes you the most remarkable?
I truly think that the universe put you on this
planet to spread joy. I do worry though, that sometimes we,
(17:42):
myself included those around you, maybe take too much of
your joy, and that scares me because you are the
most precious thing, and precious things are usually finite. So
I am so happy that I can make sure that
your will does not run dry as we continue this
crazy little thing called life together. I'm so happy I
(18:05):
get you all of you, the hard stuff, the great stuff,
because I want it all, all of it. There's no
one else I'd want to ride this cecil with. I
love you.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
We got Chash's very good. She's very good.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
How does it feel listening to.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
That god I talk about feelings? It feels Great's yeah,
she's very wonderful. It's very lovely to hear lovely things
about yourself. It's a weird thing. As I said, when
you have the imposter syndrome, sometimes you forget You're like, oh, yeah,
I don't make a difference, or it is nice to hear,
especially from your person. I was like, where was that
(18:49):
the therapy session? Yeah, that's not true. She is the
best and I actually feel the same about her. And
I'm super lucky to have met someone who brings so
much sunshine to everyone around her.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
So, Rob Mills, you have you have an impressive career.
Youah fans all over the country. You feel feared is
with people who want to see you perform, and you
bring joy to people through entertainment. But are you happy?
Speaker 1 (19:24):
I am very happy at the moment, Like whatever first
world problems that I have at the moment, overall, yeah,
a million percent. Like We've never lived in a happier,
safer time or country in the world. Like I am happy.
I'm very lucky. I've got good friends, I've got a
great career, and especially very very lovely partner to help
(19:45):
me ride the seesaw.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
I wanted to give space on this season to really
talk about men and mental health and what we need
to change in order to normalize vulnerability and help seeking
among men. I think Rob's candidness when it comes to
his own mental health struggles, even when they're quite serious,
as well as what he he finds helpful and what
(20:11):
he really doesn't, is particularly enlightening. I'm not sure that
shame is a driver of changing behavior, and I think
sometimes we shame men for the way they communicate, but
shame pushes people further and further away into isolation, and
that isn't what any of us want. The idea that
(20:32):
when men are doing that weird thing where they hang
out and don't seem to speak about anything big, they're
actually building trust is a very good point. Join me
next week for a chat with Olympian Ariane Titness about
what success actually means to her and why she says
swimming as only a small component of who she is.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
I swim, I'm not a swimmer.
Speaker 5 (20:57):
Swimming is an aspect of my life, and at the
moment it's a major aspect of my life, but it's
not who I am, and I know that who I
am as a person has way more to offer the
world than and what my swimming does. A lot of
people never ever, ever wanted a.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Piece of me before all this success came. On last
week's episode, I spoke to Laura Byrne about traumatic birth,
the impossible balance of being a mum and leaning into
your career ambitions, and the moment she found love on
TV and it was nothing like what she expected. There's
a link in the show notes to listen to that episode.
(21:36):
If you enjoyed the podcast, please leave a review and
share it with anyone you think we'll enjoy it. If
you'd like to suggest someone for the podcast, you can
get in touch with me. My Instagram handle is Claire
dot Stevens, or you can email us here at podcast
at mummeya dot com dot au. Some of my favorite
(21:57):
interviews have been suggestions from our listeners. This episode was
produced by Tarlie Blackman, with audio production by Scott Stronik.
See you next week
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Two two
You're listening to Amma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Mama Mea acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and
waters that this podcast is recorded.
Speaker 3 (00:20):
On Hello, it's producer to listen here and welcome to
part two of this episode of But Are You Happy?
With actor, musician and Australia's boyfriend Rob Mills. In part
one of this chat, you heard about the time Rob
was at his lowest while in the spotlight on stage,
(00:41):
his experience with Idol which wasn't quite what it seemed,
and the one thing he hopes the media will just
stop talking about. If you haven't heard part one of
this chat, it's best to start there. So there's a
link in the show notes. But here is part two
of Claire Stephens chat with Rob Mills.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
You are engaged, Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:05):
Can you just plan our wording for us as we're
not going to it?
Speaker 2 (01:10):
No, what you have to do. You have to do
what I did, which was you give yourself a really
short deadline period of time and then you actually can't
make decisions because there are no choices available.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
This is good.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
So it's like choose a florist. There's one forlorest who
can do it? Choose a venue. There's only one place
that has a gap, so I think that will work.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
Like I confused with the amount of toothpaste choices, like
very stressful. It's very stressful. When do I want my
teeth to be whier now a little bit later or
very difficult? So we have decision paralysis. We're going away
overseas in September. You're just gonna get married of.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Just a lope.
Speaker 1 (01:46):
Yeah, but like it doesn't count anyways. You have to
come back and get married at the registry office and stuff.
So I don't think so. But maybe we'll go find
somewhere that we both like and fall in love with,
and then maybe we'll just do it there. Who knows.
At this stage, you're just looking forward to a holiday.
But yeah, we'd love to get married. I can't imagine
it's going to be a very big thing. Our life
is a gig, so like, I don't need the wedding
(02:06):
to be another gig. Just wanted to be, like because
I what a live band and just like have my
mates get up and sing and then that's it. That's
pretty small.
Speaker 2 (02:16):
You posted in twenty twenty, and this was before your book,
and you write about it in your book. About losing
two of your friends to cancer, and you wrote in
the post I'm tired and I'm sad, and you were
really honest about not feeling good at that time. And
it was a time where a lot of people were
(02:37):
struggling because it was COVID. And were you in Melbourne?
Speaker 1 (02:40):
D're in COVID. Yeah, yeah, we were in the city
city apartment.
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:44):
And why Yeah the city was so dead. It must
have been dead.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
Yeah, it must have been a really dark time for
a lot of reasons. How has death and grief changed
how you think about your own life?
Speaker 1 (03:01):
It definitely starts the clock. I'm post forty now, but yeah,
losing friends who were forty and fifty, Yeah, it was
pretty pretty sad, pretty terrifying. Also, like cancer, why why
are they going after the good people? And the paper
the good people? I think it helps put things in
(03:21):
perspective and makes you maybe motivated to do the things
that you need to do in this lifetime and knowing
that you have a limited amount of time and to
use it to the best of your capabilities. Yeah, I
think that's what it does, I think for a lot
of people. But also yeah, during that time, it's we
talked about this before, about the importance of community, but yeah,
(03:44):
where are they? They're all online. It's weird, Like I
want to see people. I think I remember talking about
this about in the article, Like when we did catch up,
we just drink and then just feel worse. Like, what's
the activities that we can do together that help us
grieve and help us connect without without the booze. We
don't really have that in Australia. Yeah, super important to
(04:06):
acknowledge to grieve with your people during that time. That
was really really hard to do. You know, for all
the people who lost loved ones during that during that time,
I can't even even imagine not being able to go
to the hospital or not being able to be at
the funeral, Like, yeah.
Speaker 2 (04:22):
It was unnatural. It didn't feel happens again. Yeah, it
didn't feel right to not be able to be with
people when they were suffering and you were suffering and
there was this physical distance. And I think it was
a really clarifying time in terms of how important it
is to actually be with people in a real sense.
Speaker 1 (04:43):
Okay, so this is a question for you. Do you
think we've straight after everyone was like hanging out all
the time. Have we gone back again.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Yeah, I think we settled at do less. I do
less socially than I did pre COVID.
Speaker 1 (04:58):
You also have a baby now, yes, But I.
Speaker 2 (05:01):
Think even before baby, I think people have retreated a
little bit from society.
Speaker 1 (05:08):
They forget that that was the and thing that we
were switching for. Why do we go It's me and
my job and that's all that matters. And no, you're
going to burn out again. You're going to find the thing,
oh I need of the community. Yes.
Speaker 2 (05:20):
Yeah, you write in your book about this idea of
men obviously needing to talk more, have more in depth conversations,
and about how often the way men do that is
side by side rather than facing each other. And it's
something that I think a lot of people will will notice.
(05:42):
The men in their lives are a lot better when
they're half distracted and you can have a conversation, you.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
Can washing the dishes or cooking and have chats about
stuff getting to doing a task.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
I read something the other day that it was kind
of written from the perspective of a man, and it said, like,
I'm not scared of being vulnerable, I'm scared of sounding stupid.
That like they feel like they don't have the words.
Do you think that's part of it?
Speaker 1 (06:06):
I remember talking about my about this when my book
came out. She's, like I said, generally speaking, women are
much better at communicating and talking. They've been doing it
for much longer uder age, it's encouraged. It's all these
things right, And I said, would it be okay if
women help men in this regard? Like you no, you
what woman to do? You're better add it? Just help
(06:28):
us help and not judge so much for not being
good at it, because I think there's a lot of
blokes out there that do bot to talk. They don't
have the words, so go for that walk. And also
don't do it all the time. I think as men,
we feel uncomfortable, so therefore we don't do the thing. Yeah,
that's good. I like that. I'm going to use that.
But also we don't like doing it all the time
(06:48):
because we've already talked about it. Yeah, while you bring
this up again, we just talked about it. Let me
go away and process this, or let me go away
and think about it, or put it in a box
and I'll won't deal with it for ages. But like
they bring it up all the time, just bring it
up once, you know, and let them go and think
about it on his own maybe, but yeah, the walk
(07:08):
side by side, go for a drive in the car
doing a task together. Yeah, or just call up a
mate and go, can you take it for a walk
and just find out what's going on. All that stuff
helps men hold onto a lot of the research that
I did for the book Guilt Shame more so than
women versus said, I'm generally speaking, this is just the
(07:30):
research that I've done and it's not helpful and we
don't really know how to get out of it. For
some blokes it's too much and they just will end
their lives, which is horrific. But we do respond well
to connection to other chats are UKDA is coming up,
And I think it's really important for people to understand
(07:51):
that if you don't have that connection with someone, find
the person that does to have that chat. You can't
just walk up to someone you don't really know, are
you okay? Like I don't know you, I don't.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I'm not going to tell you.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
No, yea. And for blokes, this takes years sometimes to
build trust with someone in order to have those conversations
and the shit banter that a lot of women hate
that blokes do. That's trust building. You know, we neg
each other, we give each other ship.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
That's actually and talking about the footy whatever it is.
Speaker 1 (08:21):
That is building trust, yes, and that sometimes that takes
a long time. But if we get to a place
where okay, all that shit talking. Gus Wallen talks about
it his Charity's Got Your for Life and he says,
you know, just five percent real chat would be great
amongst blokes And I'm like, oh, I probably like twenty
five yeah, but that's more men. I'm in the arts,
(08:42):
but yeah, five percent would great. Somewhere in the middle
there'd be awesome. But let us have our bands out,
like we can't just have real chats at the top.
It's fucking exhausting. You get compassion fatigue talking about feelings
and yuck. It's not but you do need to let
off the valve at some stage. But yeah, that's a
good reminder for AUKD know that you might not be
(09:03):
the person, but find someone who is. And it might
be a counselor it might be a professional or or
ask them do you want to have it about this?
You know, if not, it's totally cool as well. It
shouldn't just be one day.
Speaker 2 (09:15):
There's a mental health crisis among men, and I think
the struggle to kind of be vulnerable and even have
the language around how they're feeling is a huge part
of it. And you know, we know that women are
socialized talk about that stuff more and men are not.
Speaker 1 (09:36):
And do you want us to you know, there's bass
sounds in it, Like I think for a lot of blokes,
I just I just had this thought, they're like, for
shit at something, give a shit about it? Yeah, going,
why are you shit at it? Like you're really shit
at this? You know, like got it from a playful
kind of perspective that might help break the ice maybe
as well. We don't like to be told off, No
(09:57):
one likes to be told but like going with a
playful nagging energy, maybe I don't know, like that's a
way to break down the barrier for bokes.
Speaker 2 (10:07):
I am terrible because I think there is a bit
of shame that goes on in a bit of kind
of putting shit on men about this. And if anybody
just sits in it and thinks when I get ship
put on me, I'm not motivated change I'm not And
you can.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
Or go towards something where I'm accepted. Yeah, which is
I think is happening for say, a lot of men,
for some men. And I don't want to overconflate the
addrew Tate supporters of this world who are Yeah, blocks
are awesome. Yeah, blocks are awesome. They can also be
kind and compassionate and vulnerable as well.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
It's giving them creation.
Speaker 1 (10:45):
What have you got a vagina like whatever? I don't know.
I don't. Yeah, he's not your messiah. No, no, no
one is. Take something from from everyone is always my advice.
But yeah, I think for some blocks they do well.
I can't be accepted here, so I'll go to where
I am accepted, where I don't have to talk about
feelings and I can just be exactly that's helpful. I
(11:08):
don't think it's helpful.
Speaker 2 (11:09):
Little in your twenties, you experimented with your sexuality, and
it was a different time to what it is now
for people in their twenties. And I'm also interested because
you had developed a fan base of me, these really
enthusiastic girls. Was there any part of you that didn't
(11:30):
want to be honest about exploring a sexuality at that
time as a career move.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
No, I never thought it was a career move. I
just thought it was just like personally, I just thought, oh,
I don't know, I don't know what this is. Yeah.
So I'd been with a couple of guys and I
was very honest with Georgie when we first met. She's like, going, great,
it's amazing, Like, oh, okay, this is amazing. Look, I
don't want to like put myself in the category because
(11:57):
it's cool, but I do consider myself probably queer, Like
I think I love the person more so than just
the sex, although I do love the sex. Yeah. So
I think at the time, I was like, maybe there
was shame around it, and I think that's why I
wanted to put it in the book and talk about
It's like, I think there's a lot of young men
that want to explore these things, but a fear of judgment,
(12:19):
Like because when you're a kid, you try out netball,
you try baseball, soccer, you try so many different things
to try and work out what you like, Like i'd
be people as well. Why is that weird? So I
think I wanted to not make other young men feel
the same way, or women or trans kids, you know,
feel othered. It just is, and who cares? Who cares
(12:41):
how you feel about other people society who get Like, honestly,
who cares? It doesn't actually make a difference in their
day to day but it matters to you. So yeah,
go explore, do the things, try it out. I'm enjoying
the rise in people coming to terms with their gender
as well. A lot of I suppose conservative people like,
but why do we care? Like they don't care.
Speaker 2 (13:00):
Like, just let white people talking about it, like.
Speaker 1 (13:03):
The meatia is talking about it because it's a thing
that generates clickbait. If it doesn't affect you, It's like
looking at the menu. I don't want that, then don't
it's something else? Yeah yeah, yeah, just there's something else
on the menu for you, Like, don't look at that story.
What are they talking about? It's important to them? Yeah
the end. Yeah, just like that. I'm just trying to
break down the taboo around it. But yeah, I like
(13:25):
the fact that there are more gender discussions happening and
openly happening. I think that's all it is. I don't
think they want any special prefluence or anything anyone does.
It's just like, let us exist and then just let's
break down the taboo around it or the stigma.
Speaker 2 (13:41):
Up next a message from his fiance that brings Rob
to tears. When you think about your own life and
you think about potentially being an old man and looking
back on your life, what do you think it's going
(14:02):
to have been that made you the happiest? Oh?
Speaker 1 (14:05):
This is good. Can I tell you a fun story?
Few years ago, I was doing some work with the
Reach Foundation, which I started by Jim Steins and Paul Curry.
Is excellent. We love Reach that you go out and
do empowering workshops for kids all across the country. They're fantastic.
And one of the workshops I went to, we all
had to get up and give our own eulogy. They'd
set up a casket or like a makeshift casket, and
(14:27):
you stood up in front of it and you did
your own eulogy and you talked about your own life.
Speaker 2 (14:31):
Oh my gosh, what did you say?
Speaker 1 (14:33):
I said to the thousands and attendance and the millions
watching around the world. I wanted to start with a gag,
just to break my own I remember talking about having
performed at some of the world's best stages, and which
I still think is highly possible. Although very tight. Now,
(14:53):
I've probably had a lot more drive in me. That's
probably fifteen years ago. If I look back when I'm older,
just the really great life and that had helped people
along the way feel better about themselves. I think that's
what I whether it's through entertaining them on the stage
or it's just a one on one cover station and
I've fustered really good friendships. I think that's something I
(15:14):
have struggled with my entire life, but it's something I
would like to get better at and to finally have
learned a lot of songs on guitar, which I keep
putting on this pod. Jervy Show will help me face
my fears of playing guitar in front of people.
Speaker 2 (15:33):
Before I asked my last question, be.
Speaker 1 (15:35):
A good dad, I should also put it and be
a good dad.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
So you want kids?
Speaker 1 (15:39):
Yeah, totally, yeah, just like just wait, just waiting. At
least we're talking about.
Speaker 2 (15:45):
It before we ask our last question. We did have
one little thing that we did as a bit of
a gift for you, and it is a lovely little
message from your Beyonce Georgie II.
Speaker 1 (16:00):
They are my favorite.
Speaker 4 (16:03):
I am thinking that you may have been talking a
little bit about me on this podcast. Hopefully you focus
on my smart sex equalities and not just how average
I am at domestic duties.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I've not said any of this, and if you've been.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
Talking about me, what on earth have you been talking about?
But since this podcast is largely about happiness and our
relationship with it, I know that Claire has a very
important question to ask you very very soon.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
Hi Claire, by the way, it's like she's here.
Speaker 4 (16:35):
I just thought, though, Robert, that I would remind you
how much happiness you bring to my life and everyone
who's lucky enough to know you. I think that a
lot of the time we make our own luck. But
when it comes to you, Robert Mills, anyone who knows you,
(16:57):
who's lucky enough to know you to meet you, has
won the fucking lottery. You are the kindest, most generous
and joyous soul that I have met. I'm so lucky, fortunate, blessed,
enter another synonym here. That I fell in love with
(17:20):
you and that you fell in love with me. You're
first to keep learning and stay curious is number one hot,
but number two I think what makes you the most remarkable?
I truly think that the universe put you on this
planet to spread joy. I do worry though, that sometimes we,
(17:42):
myself included those around you, maybe take too much of
your joy, and that scares me because you are the
most precious thing, and precious things are usually finite. So
I am so happy that I can make sure that
your will does not run dry as we continue this
crazy little thing called life together. I'm so happy I
(18:05):
get you all of you, the hard stuff, the great stuff,
because I want it all, all of it. There's no
one else I'd want to ride this cecil with. I
love you.
Speaker 1 (18:22):
We got Chash's very good. She's very good.
Speaker 2 (18:25):
How does it feel listening to.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
That god I talk about feelings? It feels Great's yeah,
she's very wonderful. It's very lovely to hear lovely things
about yourself. It's a weird thing. As I said, when
you have the imposter syndrome, sometimes you forget You're like, oh, yeah,
I don't make a difference, or it is nice to hear,
especially from your person. I was like, where was that
(18:49):
the therapy session? Yeah, that's not true. She is the
best and I actually feel the same about her. And
I'm super lucky to have met someone who brings so
much sunshine to everyone around her.
Speaker 2 (19:07):
So, Rob Mills, you have you have an impressive career.
Youah fans all over the country. You feel feared is
with people who want to see you perform, and you
bring joy to people through entertainment. But are you happy?
Speaker 1 (19:24):
I am very happy at the moment, Like whatever first
world problems that I have at the moment, overall, yeah,
a million percent. Like We've never lived in a happier,
safer time or country in the world. Like I am happy.
I'm very lucky. I've got good friends, I've got a
great career, and especially very very lovely partner to help
(19:45):
me ride the seesaw.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
I wanted to give space on this season to really
talk about men and mental health and what we need
to change in order to normalize vulnerability and help seeking
among men. I think Rob's candidness when it comes to
his own mental health struggles, even when they're quite serious,
as well as what he he finds helpful and what
(20:11):
he really doesn't, is particularly enlightening. I'm not sure that
shame is a driver of changing behavior, and I think
sometimes we shame men for the way they communicate, but
shame pushes people further and further away into isolation, and
that isn't what any of us want. The idea that
(20:32):
when men are doing that weird thing where they hang
out and don't seem to speak about anything big, they're
actually building trust is a very good point. Join me
next week for a chat with Olympian Ariane Titness about
what success actually means to her and why she says
swimming as only a small component of who she is.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
I swim, I'm not a swimmer.
Speaker 5 (20:57):
Swimming is an aspect of my life, and at the
moment it's a major aspect of my life, but it's
not who I am, and I know that who I
am as a person has way more to offer the
world than and what my swimming does. A lot of
people never ever, ever wanted a.
Speaker 2 (21:14):
Piece of me before all this success came. On last
week's episode, I spoke to Laura Byrne about traumatic birth,
the impossible balance of being a mum and leaning into
your career ambitions, and the moment she found love on
TV and it was nothing like what she expected. There's
a link in the show notes to listen to that episode.
(21:36):
If you enjoyed the podcast, please leave a review and
share it with anyone you think we'll enjoy it. If
you'd like to suggest someone for the podcast, you can
get in touch with me. My Instagram handle is Claire
dot Stevens, or you can email us here at podcast
at mummeya dot com dot au. Some of my favorite
(21:57):
interviews have been suggestions from our listeners. This episode was
produced by Tarlie Blackman, with audio production by Scott Stronik.
See you next week
Speaker 1 (22:10):
Two two
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