October 2, 2024 • 58 mins
We’ve all had that experience of working hard to achieve “the thing”—the big dream. Rejection is part of the journey, but when you finally reach that goal...it’s a feeling like no other - or at least, it should be, right? Turns out it's more complicated than that.
Amy Shark knows this all too well. After a decade of trying to break into the music scene, her hit song "Adore" landed her a deal with a major record label. Suddenly, she was in the spotlight, winning ARIA Awards and making appearances on late-night TV—everyone knew her name.
In this conversation, Amy chats with Clare Stephens about the reality of fame and how we can all be a little happier.
But, is Amy Shark happy now? You’ll have to listen to find out.
THE END BITS
- You can listen to Amy's new album Sunday Sadness here.
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Send us a voice message or email us at podcast@mamamia.com.au to share your feedback about the show or to suggest a guest.
CREDITS:
Host: Clare Stephens
Guest: Amy Shark
Executive Producer: Naima Brown
Audio Producer: Scott Stronach
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and
waters that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
I think everyone does. Think. You're just there with all
your people you love and adore, and you're just having
champagne and you're like, let's go do it. Ah, life's great,
and it's like everyone's falling apart in the background.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Hello, and welcome to butter Are You Happy? The podcast
that asks the questions you've always wanted to know from
the people who appear to have it all. I'm your host,
Klare Stevens, and on today's episode, I'm chatting with someone
whose career has always fascinated me. Amy Shark was striving
to make it in the music industry for nearly a
(01:06):
decade when it finally happened and her song Door got
her signed with a major record label and get your
girls just so I can or you.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
The entire strecha just so I can feel along with you.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
And within a year she was winning arias. She was
performing to huge, sold out audiences and on late night
shows in the US. She followed it up with another
album with songs like I Said Hi and At the
Arias in twenty eighteen, she was that artist that just
wins all the awards. She won the most awards out
(01:50):
of any artist that year. But getting what she wanted
wasn't as simple as it seemed. It was complicated, and
here we talk about the harsh realities of fame. We
talk about money and whether that brought her happiness, the
complicated dynamic of having your husband as your manager, and
(02:14):
the really distinct moments where she expected to feel happy
and she didn't. Here's Amy Shark. I wanted to start
by asking whether you grew up in a happy family
and whether you remember your childhood is being happy.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yes, I do remember early stages of it being very happy.
My parents were divorced already. They divorced when I was
a baby, so my very early memories were always grandparents.
So it was really close to my dad's mom and
my mom's mom, and kind of even close with my
(02:57):
stepdad's moms. Added like three nands that were like so
there for me. But yeah, it wasn't until my dad
got remarried everything sort of changed. So there were some
dark times, but I have some beautiful memories of my childhood.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
What can you remember is being like the first time
you felt challenged by happiness, Like the first time you
realized that life was a bit more complicated and you
noticed that you were feeling complicated, messy feelings.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Probably early on, I reckon, Yeah, I think I was
exposed to having to grow up and really, you know
those nights when you're a kid and there's so much happening,
you're so upset. I remember being really strong, really early on,
like I was maybe nine, and being somewhere where I
(03:54):
was just crying myself to sleep and being like I
just not won't always be like this just won't be. No,
I just had that belief. But I do remember being like,
this really sucks right now.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Do you think growing up and seeing that kind of
fracture in your family and maybe seeing how it impacted
people's happiness, do you think that informed how you grew
up and kind of the path decisions that you made.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Totally? Yeah, I think that for so many people. That's
why in my adult life I've never really kicked the
bucket and been like, poor me, I'm going to be
a drug addict because I had it so bad, and
I've just been like, well, it's kind of character building.
I wouldn't be the amy that I am now, and
(04:44):
I wouldn't I definitely wouldn't be the artist I am now.
I wouldn't be so many things. I wouldn't have met
people that are so close to me if I wasn't
who I am because of what I went through. So
in a way, I'm like, I just kind of take
it with a grain of salt, and I think it's
really comforting. The older you get, you look at everything differently, right, Like,
(05:06):
I even look at my parents, who I was like, ah, man,
you sucked at that, and and then I'm like, they're
just people. They're doing the best they can with the time,
with what they had at the time. So you know,
there are some things I'm like, no, I won't forget that,
and that's I'm not going to give you a free
pass with that one. But I do I look at
(05:26):
things and I'm like, we're all just freaking human beings
still and the best we can.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
You rose to national and international fame with Adore in
twenty sixteen, and you rapidly went from almost a decade
of essentially trying to make it as an artist to
winning arias, coming second on the Triple J Hottest one hundred.
You're doing night shows in America. You've said before that
(05:51):
you once got a rejection from someone in the music
industry which said, please stop sending unsolicited material to me.
Your music is no good and it's not something we
would be interested in anyway.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Do you think rejection galvanized you?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yes? Yeah, definitely you need that. You need it because
it builds the story, It builds your backbone, it builds everything.
There's definitely times where you're like, I think I've had enough.
I think I've had enough rejection. But it just goes
to show that I truly do believe if you want
(06:28):
to work as hard as it takes, and if you're
strong enough, and if you really really love it and
believe that's the reason you're here on this earth, I
honestly think it'll just happen. Because I don't know. I've
just seen it happen so many times to people like.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Have you seen it happen? Because I'm so interested in
your resilience in that time, because there are so many
people who would give up, and so many people who
do give up. They try something for a few years,
it's not happening. They change direction, is there anyone in
your life where you've seen it happen that they're really really,
(07:05):
really determined and keep going at something that you think
they should quit.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
It's really hard. There's definitely been people that I haven't
been really close to, thank God, but like I've watched
and been sort of in the friend group of them
at some stage and being like music is just not
I know how bad you want it, but yeah, it's
going to happen. Yeah, Like it's just it's just not there.
(07:33):
But also, like I've known people, I think more so
than that, I've seen people be so talented but they
just don't have the work ethic or the drive. They're
so naturally talented, but they're lazy. I've experienced more of
that than me sitting there going Juez give up. Like
I've had more of those feelings like you're so friggin good,
(07:54):
but you don't care enough.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
And do you think when you look back on like
your own tenacity and the fact that you did make
it and you've had this incredible career, what is the
word you'd use to describe yourself. Is it a hard worker?
Is it somebody who just isn't isn't impacted by other
people's opinions like what do you put it down to
(08:17):
a combination?
Speaker 1 (08:18):
I think like I've always looked at like when people
are like, how do you do it? How does it happen?
It's like a real domino effect, but everything has to
be lined up, and you don't even know if you've
got them all lined up until it's happening, and then
you look back and on reflection you're like, oh, yeah, okay.
So I was unknown, even down to the way a
doore was one word and with the letter A and
(08:40):
my name had shark attached to it, and just all
these things that you don't realize you have that are
just falling into perfect placement. And even the fact that
I had had fifteen years under my belt playing really
dodgy pubs and clubs and just going through and setting
up my own gear and just being so tired, and
by the time, you know, management was like you got
(09:02):
a really big week ahead. I looked at that week.
I was like, looks like fun.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
I used to just work full time, like had to
be there eight third till five, had to race to
a club and play till like midnight to a bunch
of drunk people. And then you know, lug all my
speakers back into the car and be at work the
next day and look all corporate a different version of myself.
And so I was ready. So everything was in my corner.
So I was just like when I finally saw a
(09:29):
glimmer of hope of like here's a little glimmer of
your dream, I just really went for it, like to
the point where I was I probably was a little
bit hard to manage at the time because I was
so this is my shot. Everyone get out of the way,
no one take it from me. I'm so focused. It's wild,
(09:50):
and I think that's yeah, everything just has to be
lined up.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Were you almost like not willing to settle, like once
you had that success. Were you kind of so determined
because you've been on this track for so long that
you're like, I'm not going to let this pass me by.
I'm clinging onto this. Is that what you mean?
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah, just constantly like Okay, what's next, Okay, what's next? Yeah, Okay,
I've got this other song, let's go like, and I've
got this idea can we do that? And I've got
this idea for this video, and yeah, it was like,
don't stop for a second, just keep going, because this
could all disappear if I don't keep showing up and
being like, look, I can do this. I can write
(10:35):
this kind of song now, and I can play it
acoustically or I can like I was just constantly being like,
I can do it, like let me prove it to you.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
And with the people around you, some of the people
around you saying like this is amazing, like trying to
just slow you down or encourage you to just appreciate
what you had rather than keep pushing.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
They probably weren't trying to do anything like slow me
down or whatever, but I was so hungry that I
constantly thought someone was going to take it away from you.
So yeah, if they weren't working at the pace that
I wanted to work at, I was like, what's up?
You're not all in on this? Yeah you like you know,
whereas I came into the industry, didn't know anything, working
(11:19):
with people who had been in the industry their whole
life twenty thirty years or whatever, and they're looking at
it like, yeah, you just need to let's sit and
chill and no, don't do an album yet, do an EP.
And I'm like, why would I do an album, I
have the songs and getting all, you know, frustrated. If
I look back now and I'm like, yeah, I feel
in a better place now, but I definitely know I
(11:42):
wasn't in that place at the start.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Now, when you look back and you think about when
you were pitching songs and putting yourself out there, do
you remember the names of the people who turned you like, yeah,
back on you? And do you hold grudges?
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Uh? I think I felt like this big weight off
my shoulders and it sounds really silly and poetic, but
once I released I said, Hi, I feel like that
song had a lot of bitterness and a lot of
anger in it. And I always feel free after I
release something and I'm like, they'll hear it, and then
(12:18):
I think that's I saw an interview with Taylor once
and it was really I really felt what she meant
when she said I'm so happy that my songs get heard.
She goes, that's the coolest thing about my job is
that now I know my songs will get heard. And
for years I remember watching that when I was still
on the grind and I was like, yeah, it must
(12:40):
be amazing, because all mind of falling on like the
seven people on MySpace, So just no traction then, and
now I get what she means. I'm like, it doesn't
matter what I put out, it's going to get heard.
And it's the best feeling ever.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
And I think you probably have a totally different level
of appreciation for it because you were kind of a
fully formed human by the time that all that success
found you, and you knew what it was like for
it to not come easily totally like it's probably a
really I don't know, it probably does a lot to
make you a better human having been through all those
(13:18):
years when you had all the success with Adore, you
did the Late Late Show with James cordon and the
Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. I don't know why those
just seem so terrifying to me, Like, out of just
all the things you've done, I don't know why the
image of that, like, I just that would just be
(13:39):
so scary. What were those nights? Like, what are you feeling?
What are you experiencing?
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Like terrifying? They really are. James Corden was different because
that was the first one and everything was feeling really
good and I didn't have time to get nervous I
kind of was just rolling out everything and yeah, it
was like one of the very first things I got offered.
So I was literally like quit my job. And then
(14:09):
I was on The Lach Show with James Gordon. It
was so stupid. And then by the time I did
Jimmy Fallon, I remember I was really tired. I was
on a tour and just wasn't in the best place
with the whole team and with everything. It's a mixture
of things, and I honestly just didn't want to do it.
(14:32):
I just felt so nervous, and I felt so much pressure,
and I wasn't happy, and I was tired and just
all the things and still managed to do it. I
think everyone does. Think you're just there with all your
people you love and adore, and you're just having champagne
and you're like, let's go do it. Oh, life's great,
and it's like everyone's falling apart in the background.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, you forget that even when people are having those
experiences that you watch from a distance and think, oh
my god, it's a fairy tale, yeah coming true, that
there's still all the normal tensions of life happening totally
behind the scenes, and you then went on to have
(15:16):
two years of huge like being the Golden Girl at
the Arias, And I want to ask about that because
that must be a little bit similar in from the outside,
everybody is watching it. You look absolutely beautiful. You are
just like you're ecstatic, You're giving acceptance speeches. Everything is
(15:38):
looking amazing. What's the behind the scenes like of something
like the Arias?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
The Arias is like kind of work which people don't understand. Yeah,
that's why, like all my friends are like, take me
or have some shampos and we'll It's just not like that.
It's a work night. Like even the very first Arias
I went to, I wasn't even nominated, and I spoke
that's where I met Dan Hume, who's done so much
(16:06):
of the production for my records. And you're constantly meeting
people who you may want to work with or so
you're always on. You know, it's not like I'm there
just like getting lit and celebrating the album. It's not
really a night. It is a night to do that,
but it's also a night to be prepared if you
do win something. And there's red carpets and I hate,
(16:28):
I hate, like I hate people looking at me. I
think it comes from I don't usually wear dresses and
things like that. It's only for very special events. And
if I ever did at my old job, everyone be like,
whoa Amy, if you got a date later or what's happening?
And I hate that. Yeah, So therefore I've always dressed
(16:48):
like just kind of hid a little bit. So the
aris you can imagine, I'm like, oh my god, how
am I going to do this? Like everyone's staring. I've
decided to have a hairstyle that's very look at me.
So but it is what it is. So yeah, you
just have to go into work mode and just find
that balance and just get through it.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Is it weird knowing like going into something like the Arias,
I can imagine, especially when you're going in as like
the person of that year, that there are all these
options in terms of like how hectic you go with
like a dress and hair and makeup and all of
that that if you wanted to, you could go full
(17:29):
Kim Kardashian, or you could be more authentic to who
you are and somebody your fans will recognize. How have
you navigated that? The idea of like having an image
and keeping kind of some semblance of who you are
rather than just leaning into the like being a woman
(17:51):
in music.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, I think it comes down to what you said
before about being like a full blown adult, Like I
think you can start freaking out and spiraling maybe when
you're younger and you're not really you don't really know
who you are yet. Because it took me so long
to work out the hell I was like so long,
like I just I just like writing songs. I don't
(18:15):
really care to look like Lady Gaga or I don't know.
I also like, I grew up liking punk music, and
I love when someone has their certain look and I
love going to see them and they look the way
they look, so you know, yeah, I guess like that's
(18:35):
with my hair. I never really I just kind of
fell into that and then I saw people doing it
and I was like, that's cool. That's really cool. So
that is as far as I think I go everything else.
I just like to be comfortable. I think the coolest
thing that my partner said when this was all happening,
I was like, what do I wear? Because I've had
(18:57):
years of like getting it wrong, years of like oh
my god, like photo shoots where I look like a
like Bambie and like just just like a not me.
And probably it's my fault too, because I didn't really know.
All I knew was I liked writing songs. So when
we started getting somewhere and I had a really big
meeting with the record label in America, It's like what
(19:19):
do I wear? And he's like, just wear whatever you're
comfortable with, and so I just would like jeans and
an added ass jacket and just put my sort of
hair up. And then the guy there was like, Amy,
I love your hair and I love the Adidas and
I was like, okay, great, And that's how it started.
It was just so casual and just the focus was
all on the music and the performance.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Did anyone ever try to kind of morph you or
change your direction once you blew up, like especially once
you're in the US and people know who you are
there and you know you're probably making a lot of
people a lot of money. Is anybody trying to change
(20:02):
who you are musically or in terms of your image?
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Never? Wow. I think there was just sort of so
much there. Like I had the songs, I'd done the work,
people knew I was confident the way I looked, and
if I didn't look a certain way, I wouldn't be
able to speak and hold the room the way I could.
So I think everyone would just sat still and like, Okay,
it's working, let it go. Let it go to the
(20:28):
point where I was like my old manager, I was
walking with him one day and he goes, I'm really
glad that you keep it so simple. It's like it's
like a lot of artists have all these dread and
stylists that has to travel and like, how are you
going to fit all these dresses in there? You know?
And I'm like, well, I got like eighteen pairs of
black jeans and I've got like thirty white T shirts
and like you know. So so I think everyone was like, look,
(20:51):
it's it's different, and she's a bit different, but let's
just roll with this.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
After this short break. What happened when one of Amy's
songs went viral? Did fame and money make her happier?
Once a door goes completely viral? Do you feel extreme
pressure with what you do next? And do you feel
(21:20):
paralyzed by that pressure?
Speaker 1 (21:22):
I didn't at that time, because I just knew I
had so many songs and I was so excited to
show them to the point where I was like, I
don't want to be known as the adoor girl. I
want to keep putting music out, and I think that's
what drove a lot of people crazy. They were like, no,
but we need to really rinse this song. It's doing
really well. So that's where my obsession came with, like, no,
(21:44):
I want to keep going, keep moving, like keep up
with me, just in experience. But no, I didn't. I
don't know. I just didn't feel I had one musician
and I won't obviously say the name of this person,
but they were like, yeah, I mean it's going to
be hard to like back up a door, and I
was trying not to let it get to me. It
(22:06):
was said in a very smug way. So instead of
backfisting this person, I was just like, you're watching your baby.
You've got no idea what I have on my sleep.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
What didn't you expect about fame? Because I imagine in
those years where you were pursuing music, you probably unconsciously
imagined what that life would look like. What would people
not know about the reality of being a famous, successful musician?
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Oh so much? That's so loaded, I feel like, especially
now like I'm in album three, sort of phase, so
the dust is settled, you know, you can start seeing
who's changed. And it's a really interesting time for me.
And sometimes it can be super heartbreaking because it's just
so turbulent, like it really is, especially when you've come
(23:05):
from working nine to five super pedestrian life and then
the next minute and it you really don't know where.
There's no book, and especially now music's in another whole ballgame.
It's so different. Like even when I first started, I
remember management being able to sit there and forecast exactly
(23:27):
where I would be, what venues I'd be playing, where
my album would come in, at all these things, and
they got it all right because they could see the stats,
and it blew my mind. And now just knowing what
I know now and the people I've met, and they're like,
there's no rule book anymore. There's no forecasting. We have
no idea what's working, what will work, what won't work.
(23:51):
So it's just navigating every day and it can be
very stressful and there's just no certainty about anything, and
no one knows that.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
And how do you deal with the fact that, I
guess for a lot of people, you can't do me
music forever for a lot of people, there's kind of
a window in which you've got this amazing career. How
do you compartmentalize your music career and the rest of
(24:25):
your life.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah, it's a really hard balance. It'll be at a
time where I'm the busiest, where I'll be like, I
haven't spoken to the kids, like my nieces and nephews
who I'm very close with. God, i haven't spoken to
them in a minute, like, and I'll just almost put
this pressure on myself at the worst times and never
let myself relax. I still just don't know how to relax.
Like it's even when we go on holidays, we're kind
(24:47):
of pretending, like like we're there lying on a deck
chair with a panic collater and still being like, Okay,
so we'll do this, and then we'll do that too,
and then we'll all the social media bullshit. It's like,
it's just so so hard to get that perfect balance.
And I don't know if any musician really does, but
I'm always trying really hard to get better at that.
(25:08):
And I think the best thing that I have is
I'm not obsessed with it. Like I've proven everything I
wanted to prove, and I think I'll always be able
to be comfortable. So if it ever took its toll
on my family or my relationship or anything like that,
(25:29):
I'm happy to give it away and just move somewhere random.
And I'm not obsessed with being in the limelight. I've
done it so much because there's been cool opportunities like
Australian Idol, like all these things, and I'm like, oh,
that's interesting, and we're always on my manager and partner
and myself like that's cool, let's do it. Let's see
(25:50):
what happens. So everything's been fine up until now. But
I think it's okay. I feel okay about it because
in the back of my head I know that I
don't need it. It's just cool to do. But if
it got really intense, I'm happy to walk away.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Yeah. Yeah. How has it been in terms of money
changing things? Because if you're doing gigs and you're just
working a typical job, I can imagine you've got a
certain relationship with money and you're getting by and that
sort of thing, and then you blow up, and I
(26:24):
imagine that changes your financial situation. Does money buy happiness?
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Money makes some things easier, but it also causes a
lot of problems, like that song is legit more money,
more problems.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
I'm always interested in as somebody who can't relate to
the problems. What problems.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
It's a hard one to explain. It exposes all the
rest of the problems because you're like, oh, hang on
a minute, got like a stack of money. Why am
I feeling empty? Yeah, it's yeah, it's pretty funny because
it also just changes the dynamic of so many things,
because I think people think I'm like a billionaire or
(27:09):
something like even my family, Like I'll get sent links
of palaces around Europe and I'm like you should buy this,
Like sit down. I'm like I'm good. Yeah, So I
think people and I used to think it too. I
used to see people on television and go, oh, all
the money in the world, they've probably got private jets,
(27:30):
And I mean you do. You're like, yeah, you work hard,
you have songs that do well, you have opportunities to
get to do that make your money. But it's also,
like I said before, you don't know how long that's
going to last. Life's long if you're lucky. So yeah,
you're constantly looking at it like okay, well that's cool
for now. And some people. When you have a good catalog,
(27:54):
I guess there are times where you can look it
into the future and go oh cool, like I'll sell
it then and that'll be worth this much and you
can do a little bit of that. But yeah, the
rest of it's all up in the air. So you've
got to be really clever. You know. I'm lucky. I
married an accountant, so I've got this nerd with me
all the time knowing what to do. So but I
can see how people get all this success and just
blow it all and get really excited and then things
(28:18):
happen and life happens, and then all of a sudden,
you're like, shit, what am I going to do?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Like I know exactly what you mean. That money comes in,
and it would be easy to assume that that amount
of money is going to come in for the rest
of your life, and you've got to be smart in thinking, actually,
hold on, I've got to be aware of this being
a particularly profitable moment in a very long lifetime. Does
(28:45):
money make life easier?
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Like I said before, Like yeah, in some ways, like
in the classic ways you think, like being outed by
a house or certain things, little treats and holidays and
whatever become more comfortable. Yeah, like, but the overheads go up,
so you know, you're like, oh, I need help with that,
(29:11):
and I need help with this, and they all need
to be paid. And I want my shows to look
like this because I'm playing these rooms, so I need
production to be this. And my band's amazing, so they
need to be paid. So it's like, yeah, people don't
know how much things cost, like it all kind of
adds up. And if you want to do something at
a high level and good quality, yeah, man, that money
(29:35):
can like go really quickly.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Speaking of Shane, you have been together since just after
you finished school. What's the dynamic of having your partner
manage you? I want to know the best part and
the worst part.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
So loaded we could be here for a long time.
The best part is he knows me better than anyone.
I trust him with absolutely everything. He knows the Amy
sh ar project better than I do. He's very smart
with his decisions and that makes me comfortable. And then
(30:19):
I guess the hard bit is learning to be like, hey,
I'm also your wife. We love each other, like you know,
just a reminder and we're both so busy. Like Shane's
calendar is just as busy as mine, so we literally
have to put it in the iCal dinner, like try
(30:39):
not talk about work.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
So there's a theory that in romantic relationships and in
professional relationships, you really just have the same fight over
and over again. It just kind of takes a different form.
What is your fight with your husband?
Speaker 1 (30:56):
The constant fight is. So we'll have our separate days
and I would have just been you know, going go
and going interview whatever whatever I'm doing, even if I'm
in the studio and he's had I had all these
conversations and worked all through the day and done some
planning and that, and I'll always want to know what's
(31:18):
going on because it's actually my business too. So but
he's had a day and has not got off the
phone and he's like, oh, babe, I just and I'm like,
I just don't know anything. Ever, He's like, I know,
I know, but like I've literally just been talking about
you all day. And I really feel for him, because
it's not just the day that he speaks about me
(31:38):
with agents and whoever. He'll go to the pub and
be like, oh it's Amy Shark's husband or hey, mate,
saw Amy's done this, it's Amy, Amy, Amy, and like
I would hate me, and he does this so well
because he obviously loves me very much. But I can
understand when he's like, there's so much to fill you
(32:00):
in on. I just like if we could just talk
about anything else, and that's what usually I'm like, Oh,
but I want to know.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Yeah, I want to know what's.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Going on, like you know. So that that's the constant
because essentially we work in the same thing, but we're
doing different things for the day usually, so yeah, I
always hassle him about that, and he hassles me about
leaving him alone.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
That is an interesting dynamic that like do you think
he ever feels in the shadows a bit? Like, for example,
I can imagine if you went somewhere like you're right
because of your profile and who you are, people would
be like, oh my gosh, Amy, tell me about X
y Z. Do you think sometimes he feels overshadowed.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Coolest thing about Shane is doesn't give a shit. Y
could not care you won't see him at anything. He's
so happy for me, and he's happy that he knows
he's done a brilliant job at managing me. And he
doesn't like people, like he doesn't like well, he does
like people, Sorry, he just doesn't like people. He's just
(33:11):
so happy it's worked right, and he loves his job.
He gets to work in music, and you know, he's
got such a big hand in the A and R
ring of the record and he gets so much from that.
I think he's just proud like when people come up.
But he obviously has his moments where he's like, oh
my god, one more person, and then we'll go to
his parents, and then his parents want to ask everything.
(33:33):
So he's constantly just on, you know, and it's very exhausting.
But when it comes to feeling in the shadows, like
he's never wanted to be a musician. He doesn't like
the limelight. He's actually a very shy guy, so until
he has a few beers, but like, yeah, he's just
not that person. Which is great because I've seen couples
and I've seen guy or the wife or whoever just
(33:55):
being like trying to sort of use that to jump
start their career or like you know, they're just like
I want to do something too, Now what can I do?
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Yeah yeah, yeah, so yeah I'm lucky.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Yeah, And it's probably a huge blessing that you've been
together for so long, and that together before all of
this happened.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
I honestly like, if something happened with us, that's me done.
I don't have it in me to learn anyone else
or to meet other parents of people. I'm tapped. I'm done,
Like especially now, Like I look at people with profiles
and they're dating, and I'm like, Jesus, babe, does he
know like like or you know, vice versa, like are
(34:39):
you dating this girl? Like? Is she just dating you
because you're such and such? Like it's it must be
so hard. I'm really glad that that. Yeah, I don't
have to do that.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
After the break, the surprising times when Amy thought she'd
feel her happiest but didn't. I often talk on this
podcast about the idea that the world lies to us
a bit about happiness and that often the moments we
(35:13):
expect to be the happiest actually aren't. And so I
often ask people if they have a moment they can
think of where the world told them they'd be happy
and they weren't. Like everything appeared from the outside to
be super shiny and happy and together, and behind the
scenes it was a very different story.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Yeah, it's more just you'll have moments of wow, this
is hard, and especially now more than any other time.
Like I've obviously had moments at the late night shows
where people think I'm living it up and I'm like
crying in the bathroom, don't want to go out and
play the show. So there's all those little things sort
(35:56):
of throughout the last eight years. But there's times where
you can't really explain it. You's sort of just sitting
still and you really don't know what the next move is,
and there's a lot of pressure and people think you're
this when you're really still just that and I don't
I can't explain it, but it gets really I can
(36:19):
see how artists really need to check in with their
mental health because it's just hard to put your finger
on it. Be like, I don't know what makes me happy.
I don't know I've traveled the world. I don't even
know what a holiday. I don't know like And honestly,
I had the best conversation with Tom's the launch, which
sounds crazy on this boat the day of his show,
(36:40):
and I was talking to him and I'm like, this
is so fun, Like you know, we're on the Sydney
Harbor and he's like, is it you're having fun and
I'm like, yeah, aren't you guys. I don't know anymore, guys,
I guess. So he's like, Dan, I feel that way,
and I'm like, yeah, I guess. Like I tour so much,
so the thought of packing a bag form of fun.
It's like, huh, what, like where are we going to go?
(37:02):
That's actually fun that we're gonna because it's hard to explain.
You you associate travel and being these certain places with
work now. So yeah, Tom was like, I don't know
when I'm happy anymore, and I'm like that's so sad,
and I'm just like, yeah, I guess I see glimmers
of that every now and then you can have all
(37:23):
this shit and it's still like like I honestly, and
then I'll go watch my niece skate and when I
see her run up to me like just drops everything.
That's probably the most endorphin of happiness. I'm like, I'm
so happy, like just seeing her happy and to see me,
which is crazy, but like the littlest things that didn't
(37:43):
mean shit before. Really it's like that's the coolest thing
about having all these massive highs that you never thought
you'd have because the simplest things are so special.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yeah, that kind of image of being on a boat
and him saying is it, Like, is it? I think
that's really profound because someone like him and someone like you,
you must find yourself in these situation where you're in
beautiful parts of the world and beautiful venues and you're
being doted on.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Ye.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
And it's all the criteria of what makes for a
happy moment, and the fact is that you just you
don't always feel that way. Yeah, And sometimes you're just
not really in the moment for whatever reason.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Is there any guilt that comes with that? I mean
I know for me that there have been times where,
like it's meant to be the happiest moment, I don't
feel that, And then comes the secondary emotion of beating
myself up because I don't feel how I yeh think
I'm meant to feel. Have you ever had that?
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Yeah? I think I had that. We always talk about
our wedding night because like I was so done, Like
I was just like we like smoke bomb from our
own wedding and then I was so happy. The next
day we were off to Hawaii, and I was like
happier than I was walking down the aisle. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
seriously it's yeah. And then you're like, oh, man, I
should have spoken to Arnie. Oh I didn't really, I
(39:11):
wasn't really there. I was like somewhere else. Yeah, all
the time. I mean, Sunday sadness was built from that
feeling of like that particular day night, I'm like, wait
a minute, have I spoken to that? Have I replied?
Or I haven't done much with family. I haven't even
checked in on anyone. I've just it's all been me, me, me,
(39:32):
Oh my god, I'm a monster, like you know, like
that's all the time. I'm always beating myself up.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
You have worked with some really big names in music,
people like Ed Sheeran and Jack Antonov, who often writes
with Taylor Swift, and I can imagine You've been in
rooms with some really, really, really famous people. What's your
mindset going into a studio with Ed Sheeran? Are you terrified, excited,
(40:04):
scared that you're gonna do something stupid? Like? How do
you feel?
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Well?
Speaker 3 (40:10):
That the situation was really hardcore because I was also
jet lagged, so I flew there and didn't have much
time to get on the time zone, and then you're
in your head You're like, I have to sleep, Like
I have to sleep because if I don't sleep, I'm
gonna be tired and it'll be weirdo.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
I'm gonna be weirdo. Amy. Anytime I have a big
thing like that, everyone's like, you know, just go in
and have a good time and just see what happens.
I'm like, fuck off. Yeah, we all want to hit,
we all want like so the pressure is so on,
and also I want to show people like ed that
I can write that, like, you know, think of me
next time. You know you're putting to these writing camps
(40:49):
or whatever, So yeah, you want to step up and flex.
And seeing him walk in was really crazy because it
was like, I can't believe this is happening. I'm here
because you're kind of you're always like, is he going
to pull out or is this actually going to go ahead? Yeah,
he's like I.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Am.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
And then but you find that pros have a way
of making you feel so calm and relaxed. It's all
the fake egotistical twats that don't know how to do that,
and you're like, oh, that's a bit of a bummer,
but all the pros and people that actually have longevity
(41:31):
make you feel so relaxed and like, just get the
best out of you straight away.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
I've always wanted this. Do you go into a session
like that, like cold, like you're kind of like, I
really hope something comes out in this session. Or do
you go in with ideas under your belt that you
are going to pitch throughout the session and maybe act
like they came up organically.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
I always have things in my pocket. Yeah, always, I'm
never going in there without something for backup, just in case.
You know, when you're writing a song from scratch you
really like, especially with someone ed, straight away you realize
I don't think I need reinforcements. He's on fire, which
(42:16):
is inspiring me, and this is sounding great, and yeah,
you just trust the process because once again you with
a pro and everything is fine. But I always have
ideas always. I've never really let a full thing go
and acted like it's we've done it together. Yeah, because
they don't let you. It's not like it just doesn't work.
(42:40):
It's almost like they can sniff that. I think, so
I prepared, yeah, yeah, and usually it's not even that good,
like with what you could do with this person, so
you kind of just a few ideas, maybe topical things.
I try not have, like I never have a whole
song ready to go. It's more just a line that
I love, or a couple of chords that I might
(43:01):
love and or a riff or you know, something just
to kick it off in case I turn up and
ed it's like, what do you got? YEA yeah, kind
of with you because you're like a big deal.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Has anyone disappointed you, Like anybody that you've met in
the industry and had really high expectations of don't have
to name names, but have you had an experience where
you went in really expecting to have a connection with
somebody to you know, maybe it's meeting somebody who's an idol,
(43:39):
and then it has not been that.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Not that I've worked with, but I've been in a
I guess a hang environment where I've been like, oh, yeah,
a bit of it. You're just not who I thought
you were and that's fine.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
And what kind of personality traits do you notice?
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Just too cool? Yeah, okay, just way too cool and
that's fine. But I don't know, I just feel like
the world's past that and maybe if you're I don't know,
on show it somewhere where that's your persona or whatever.
When you're in a when you're in a place where
there are other musicians who are yeah, I just like,
(44:21):
what do you think you look like right now? Yeah? Yeah,
like yeah, it's just a bit like oh, but I
don't really walk away going, oh my god, I'm shattered
that that person has laid me down. All the people
I've worked with legends and so kind and still speak
to today.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
So when you get to this point in your career,
do you experience jealousy and does your kind of benchmark
of what you're jealous of change? Because, for example, when
you're doing gigs, you might look at somebody on Triple
(44:57):
J and be like, damn, I wish I was them.
And now you're at your level, are you looking at
Taylor Swift? I mean I want to do that.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Anyone that's looking at Taylor going on to do that
is a psycho sit down. It's never gonna happen, do
you know? It's more it's more these days, simple things
that I see that I'm like, I think I wish
I was there. Like it's mainly just around my niece's nephews,
and I'm like, oh man, I wish I was at
(45:23):
her birthday right now, or like I get jealous of
the little weird things. But it's very normal to still
look at someone having a massive song that you're like,
that's such a good song. I don't know if it's jealousy,
but it's definitely like, oh man, why don't I think
of it?
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
I used to be when I first started, I was
like even jealous of ah man, they're getting more of
my manager's attention, or they're like you know what I mean,
like needy little bitch vibes. But I don't have them anymore,
thank god.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
I want to talk about TikTok. You made the funniest
TikTok about whether it's worth being a musician right now,
and you said your label. You're being told go live
on Instagram, post some Instagram reels, some TikTok content, go
live on TikTok, get some things up on Facebook, some
Facebook reels, do some YouTube shorts, Facebook fan groups, Instagram, broadcast, LinkedIn, Tinder, Grinder,
(46:25):
and real estate dot com. And I laughed out loud
at my sister and I have shared that so many times.
Obviously those last times are a joke, but genuinely the
other ones are not. You have to work really hard
at social media when you're a musician right now, because
it's essentially your biggest marketing tool. How does that sit
(46:45):
with you in terms of being an artist?
Speaker 1 (46:48):
It's really exhausting, and I'm lucky that I have a
sense of humor and I can have a bit of
fun with it if I must do it. But I'm
also the type that I don't have anyone doing my
social media because so many artists are like, what are
you crazy? Like, just get someone to do it, It's like,
but they won't right like me. They won't edit it
(47:10):
like me, they won't use the same songs that I
like to use. It's just so personal, and that's the
main channel for me to show people who I am.
If someone messes it up, if I'm not driving it,
I'm petrified. That's what you choose to show people bits
(47:31):
of your life. So it's very important to me to
have a hold on that. But did I ever think
there'd be so many fucking things to do? No? At
the start, it was just like Instagram and Facebook or whatever,
and then TikTok comes from along and I'm like, oh,
this is kind of fun. Like I used to make
videos all the time, like funny ones and whatever. But
(47:51):
then yeah, when you add them all up, and I
don't even want to say the word threads because that's
something I am willing to.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
I think we all draw the line. I can't.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
I got to kill it. Kill it, everyone, boycott please,
I can't do it. I took myself off Twitter, which
I love. I'm loving not being on that. That's something management.
Just whatever I've put out, they just copy that put
on Twitter. It's a nasty, nasty place, and especially once
you're on television, it's such so brutal out there. But
(48:27):
I'm going blinde It's great. It's amazing. Kyle actually said
that to me. He said, I don't look at anything
because I walk through the day thinking everything's fineody things
are not okay. Yeah, speaking of.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
That, you've done two seasons of a styline Idol. You
won a LOGI for your role as a judge on
the show. How have you found TV and have you
found those criticisms different?
Speaker 1 (48:57):
Yeah, they go up another level, I think because your
profile just goes up another level, Like even now walking around,
I could have a hat on or a beanie and
people know my face now like it's no there's no hiding,
which is fine. Like I wasn't fine for the first season.
I really I was really reclusive and didn't want to
go out anywhere I couldn't be bothered. I'm like, oh,
if someone sees me, I'm not done up and I
(49:18):
can't be bothered. Whatever, And then friends and Shane were
just like, you can't live like that. You need to
be able to go to dinner and go out and
just who cares. And so now I'm really good with it.
I'm just like, ah, look whatever if I look like shit,
I like shit.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
So but yeah, people get really nasty on line when
you're I feel like it's just because you're in their
face a lot. Like I feel like I'm on radio
or now I'm on their TV, and it's like, if
you don't like me, you're really going to get annoyed
with that.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
And I feel like people have a weird thing and
yes with TV where they're almost like you're trying to
be in my face and therefore I get to get
angry at you. Yep, And it's like I'm not trying
to be I'm just doing my job and you have
the TV.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
On, Yeah you're on that channel, yes time, and that
I'm on that channel, babe, And I'm.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
Not doing anything to go out of my way, yeah,
to irritate you. I imagine you've built a really thick skin
from music and from dealing with rejection. Were there any
criticisms that came with being on TV that surprised you
with how much they hurt?
Speaker 1 (50:29):
When it's your character, when people really think you're this
other person, it's really hard to not fight back and
protect yourself and whatever. And then I think the other
hard thing is friends and family think they need to
weigh in and you're like, it actually makes it worse. Yes,
And then especially now where I really don't care, Like
(50:52):
I mean that I do not care. You could write
the most gnarly thing about me and I just would
not It just wouldn't touch the sides. But trying to
explain that to friends and family they don't believe you.
I just don't believe you. And I'm like, you don't
get it, Like I hit a stage now and I've
actually been like this for my whole life. You hurt
me enough, I'll just put you in a and I'll
never look at you again. And it's a bit gnarly,
(51:13):
like Shane always says, Jesus Rice you are. But it's
how I've had to do things. And there's very few
people that have hit me hard enough that I'm like, oh, okay, cool,
You're nothing to me now, you don't affect me whatever.
But that's what online is to me.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
Now.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
If I see a name that's like not, I'm like, oh,
I don't care. What if I don't care, You're not
my friend or my fani you know in my circles.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
What did people say about your character?
Speaker 3 (51:43):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (51:44):
Just that I'm nasty and calculated and I don't trust her.
And oh what does she know? She doesn't even sing,
and she's only she can't sing. She's only famous because
of who she's worked with. She doesn't even like. People
are just saying yes, outright lies, you know. And then
(52:05):
I've also got to remember there are kids on there,
so they'll be like like, sometimes I'll read it and
be like, oh, that's right, there's kids on here writing
the like I think it's an adult, but they're just
like you suck in purple, like or don't ever wear
glitter again because glitter is my favorite. And you're like,
are people okay out there?
Speaker 2 (52:23):
And probably with family and friends? It hurts them too,
Like they're probably looking at it and being hurt independent
of whether you feel it. They're like, I feel hurt
because I love that person and I know who that
person is. That's not who they are. It's such a
hard thing to turn away from. But I think the
healthiest thing is genuinely if you don't see it, it's
(52:45):
not there.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
It's so great. Oh my god, I could honestly be
getting completely canceled right now and I wouldn't know.
Speaker 2 (52:51):
You wouldn't know, You wouldn't know what currently keeps you
from happiness? Like, what would you say is your biggest
barrier to happiness at this point in your life?
Speaker 1 (53:03):
Probably a mixture of workload and having a profile. I
think if I was an Amy Shark, if I was
still just Ames who's worked at the Golcos Titans. Sometimes
there's things I really miss about people not wanting me
there to get a photo with their kids, or can
(53:24):
you sign this? It's weird you want that for so long.
You're like, someone just know I am? How cool? Signing autographs,
and then it's just that tailor as old as time.
Just be careful what you wish for. Sometimes I'm nowhere
near that, Like I feel like I've got a good
handle on things. I just put good people around me,
(53:44):
and people that I've gotten weird, I'm just I just
distanced myself from. But but yeah, there's definitely sometimes you're like, oh,
that's let me down a little bit, that that person's
now treating me different, or and you just you can't
go back. It's something you just can't flick the switch.
And remember when we did speak about other things apart
from the record or idol or charts or the tour
(54:07):
or whatever.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
You know, someday sad you say that you're in your
sadness era? What does that mean? And what is it
like to explore sadness through music? Does it help you cope?
Speaker 1 (54:27):
It's a bit of a play on words and titles,
to be honest, like, because this has got some real
playful songs on it on this album, But you ask
any artist, it's really hard to come up with some
kind of title for your album because all the good
shit's taken. But what I will say is all my
albums have been quite emotional, and when I am happy,
(54:49):
I'm out being happy. I'm not really sitting there feeling
all melancholy. So it's the times that I do right
and the things that are playing on my mind are
the sadder feelings. So it's just who I am as
an artist. I can't help it. So the whole Sunday
Sadness was just I felt like overarching theme that kind
(55:12):
of comes in and out of the whole record. Even
the happy sounding songs have a little emo in there,
so and it just sounded cool. Sunday sadness kind of
sounded cool, and the sadness to us sounds cool too. Obviously,
people know that I'm not going to be sitting there
crying and the light's going to be dim and like
it's going to be it's gonna be rock show, like
(55:33):
it's gonna be wild out there. It's who I am.
Like that that kind of storytelling as an artist is
really important to me, and that feeling of being okay
with documenting sad times and sad ish stories, even to
sad ish melodies and production. So music I grew up
(55:56):
loving for some reason as a kid, well, I was
like to think of myself as a happy kid. I
really took to the kind of Emao we sadder songs
and voices.
Speaker 2 (56:08):
Even though you're releasing this album Sunday Sadness, and you
experience obviously the full spectrum of human emotions, and that's
what makes music so beautiful. It's the expression of those
Would you say that right now you are happy?
Speaker 1 (56:26):
Yeah? I think I would. Yeah, Like I'm human, So
there's times where things are crap, but I reckon now
after being where I am now, yeah I'm happy. Yeah,
it's not on brand for the record, but yeah, thank.
Speaker 2 (56:46):
You so much for your time today. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (56:48):
Thank you, yere. It was a fun chat.
Speaker 2 (56:51):
That's all we've got time for on today's episode of
But Are You Happy? I hope this conversation made you
think about those big goals you have for yourself, all
those things you really really wish for that you assume
will solve all your problems, and once you get their,
(57:11):
life will be uncomplicated, everything will be joyous, and all
your striving will be resolved because no matter where you are,
there are always going to be peaks and troughs in
your experience. And even if you get the thing you desperately,
desperately want. It is not going to be one dimensional.
(57:34):
This is something I'm still figuring out. I think all
of us have those ideas of what we can achieve
that will fix all of our problems, and it is
just not that simple. That's why I really like this
show and these conversations, because they show that even the
people we look at from a distance and assume they
(57:55):
have everything going through a lot of the same emotional
experiences that we all are. For more from Amy, go
and listen to her brand new album, Sunday Sadness, and
I want to thank her for her vulnerability and her candidness.
And I hope you got something out of this conversation.
And if there's anyone you know who you think will
(58:17):
love it, please share it with them. If you want
to recommend anyone for the show, you can always slide
into my DMS. I love your suggestions. They are often
the guests that we reach out to, the ones you
guys have suggested. If you like the show, leave us
a review because it helps people find us and we
(58:38):
always love your feedback. Join me next week for one
of the most moving conversations I've ever had on this
podcast with comedian and actor Steph Tisdall. The executive producer
of That Are You Happy is Niama Brown and the
producer is Charlie Blackman. Audio editing by Scott Stronik and
(58:58):
I'm your host Claire Stevens. See you next week.
You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Mamma Mia acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and
waters that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 1 (00:21):
I think everyone does. Think. You're just there with all
your people you love and adore, and you're just having
champagne and you're like, let's go do it. Ah, life's great,
and it's like everyone's falling apart in the background.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Hello, and welcome to butter Are You Happy? The podcast
that asks the questions you've always wanted to know from
the people who appear to have it all. I'm your host,
Klare Stevens, and on today's episode, I'm chatting with someone
whose career has always fascinated me. Amy Shark was striving
to make it in the music industry for nearly a
(01:06):
decade when it finally happened and her song Door got
her signed with a major record label and get your
girls just so I can or you.
Speaker 1 (01:21):
The entire strecha just so I can feel along with you.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
And within a year she was winning arias. She was
performing to huge, sold out audiences and on late night
shows in the US. She followed it up with another
album with songs like I Said Hi and At the
Arias in twenty eighteen, she was that artist that just
wins all the awards. She won the most awards out
(01:50):
of any artist that year. But getting what she wanted
wasn't as simple as it seemed. It was complicated, and
here we talk about the harsh realities of fame. We
talk about money and whether that brought her happiness, the
complicated dynamic of having your husband as your manager, and
(02:14):
the really distinct moments where she expected to feel happy
and she didn't. Here's Amy Shark. I wanted to start
by asking whether you grew up in a happy family
and whether you remember your childhood is being happy.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Yes, I do remember early stages of it being very happy.
My parents were divorced already. They divorced when I was
a baby, so my very early memories were always grandparents.
So it was really close to my dad's mom and
my mom's mom, and kind of even close with my
(02:57):
stepdad's moms. Added like three nands that were like so
there for me. But yeah, it wasn't until my dad
got remarried everything sort of changed. So there were some
dark times, but I have some beautiful memories of my childhood.
Speaker 2 (03:13):
What can you remember is being like the first time
you felt challenged by happiness, Like the first time you
realized that life was a bit more complicated and you
noticed that you were feeling complicated, messy feelings.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Probably early on, I reckon, Yeah, I think I was
exposed to having to grow up and really, you know
those nights when you're a kid and there's so much happening,
you're so upset. I remember being really strong, really early on,
like I was maybe nine, and being somewhere where I
(03:54):
was just crying myself to sleep and being like I
just not won't always be like this just won't be. No,
I just had that belief. But I do remember being like,
this really sucks right now.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Do you think growing up and seeing that kind of
fracture in your family and maybe seeing how it impacted
people's happiness, do you think that informed how you grew
up and kind of the path decisions that you made.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
Totally? Yeah, I think that for so many people. That's
why in my adult life I've never really kicked the
bucket and been like, poor me, I'm going to be
a drug addict because I had it so bad, and
I've just been like, well, it's kind of character building.
I wouldn't be the amy that I am now, and
(04:44):
I wouldn't I definitely wouldn't be the artist I am now.
I wouldn't be so many things. I wouldn't have met
people that are so close to me if I wasn't
who I am because of what I went through. So
in a way, I'm like, I just kind of take
it with a grain of salt, and I think it's
really comforting. The older you get, you look at everything differently, right, Like,
(05:06):
I even look at my parents, who I was like, ah, man,
you sucked at that, and and then I'm like, they're
just people. They're doing the best they can with the time,
with what they had at the time. So you know,
there are some things I'm like, no, I won't forget that,
and that's I'm not going to give you a free
pass with that one. But I do I look at
(05:26):
things and I'm like, we're all just freaking human beings
still and the best we can.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
You rose to national and international fame with Adore in
twenty sixteen, and you rapidly went from almost a decade
of essentially trying to make it as an artist to
winning arias, coming second on the Triple J Hottest one hundred.
You're doing night shows in America. You've said before that
(05:51):
you once got a rejection from someone in the music
industry which said, please stop sending unsolicited material to me.
Your music is no good and it's not something we
would be interested in anyway.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Do you think rejection galvanized you?
Speaker 1 (06:07):
Yes? Yeah, definitely you need that. You need it because
it builds the story, It builds your backbone, it builds everything.
There's definitely times where you're like, I think I've had enough.
I think I've had enough rejection. But it just goes
to show that I truly do believe if you want
(06:28):
to work as hard as it takes, and if you're
strong enough, and if you really really love it and
believe that's the reason you're here on this earth, I
honestly think it'll just happen. Because I don't know. I've
just seen it happen so many times to people like.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
Have you seen it happen? Because I'm so interested in
your resilience in that time, because there are so many
people who would give up, and so many people who
do give up. They try something for a few years,
it's not happening. They change direction, is there anyone in
your life where you've seen it happen that they're really really,
(07:05):
really determined and keep going at something that you think
they should quit.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
It's really hard. There's definitely been people that I haven't
been really close to, thank God, but like I've watched
and been sort of in the friend group of them
at some stage and being like music is just not
I know how bad you want it, but yeah, it's
going to happen. Yeah, Like it's just it's just not there.
(07:33):
But also, like I've known people, I think more so
than that, I've seen people be so talented but they
just don't have the work ethic or the drive. They're
so naturally talented, but they're lazy. I've experienced more of
that than me sitting there going Juez give up. Like
I've had more of those feelings like you're so friggin good,
(07:54):
but you don't care enough.
Speaker 2 (07:55):
And do you think when you look back on like
your own tenacity and the fact that you did make
it and you've had this incredible career, what is the
word you'd use to describe yourself. Is it a hard worker?
Is it somebody who just isn't isn't impacted by other
people's opinions like what do you put it down to
(08:17):
a combination?
Speaker 1 (08:18):
I think like I've always looked at like when people
are like, how do you do it? How does it happen?
It's like a real domino effect, but everything has to
be lined up, and you don't even know if you've
got them all lined up until it's happening, and then
you look back and on reflection you're like, oh, yeah, okay.
So I was unknown, even down to the way a
doore was one word and with the letter A and
(08:40):
my name had shark attached to it, and just all
these things that you don't realize you have that are
just falling into perfect placement. And even the fact that
I had had fifteen years under my belt playing really
dodgy pubs and clubs and just going through and setting
up my own gear and just being so tired, and
by the time, you know, management was like you got
(09:02):
a really big week ahead. I looked at that week.
I was like, looks like fun.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (09:07):
I used to just work full time, like had to
be there eight third till five, had to race to
a club and play till like midnight to a bunch
of drunk people. And then you know, lug all my
speakers back into the car and be at work the
next day and look all corporate a different version of myself.
And so I was ready. So everything was in my corner.
So I was just like when I finally saw a
(09:29):
glimmer of hope of like here's a little glimmer of
your dream, I just really went for it, like to
the point where I was I probably was a little
bit hard to manage at the time because I was
so this is my shot. Everyone get out of the way,
no one take it from me. I'm so focused. It's wild,
(09:50):
and I think that's yeah, everything just has to be
lined up.
Speaker 2 (09:55):
Were you almost like not willing to settle, like once
you had that success. Were you kind of so determined
because you've been on this track for so long that
you're like, I'm not going to let this pass me by.
I'm clinging onto this. Is that what you mean?
Speaker 1 (10:15):
Yeah, just constantly like Okay, what's next, Okay, what's next? Yeah, Okay,
I've got this other song, let's go like, and I've
got this idea can we do that? And I've got
this idea for this video, and yeah, it was like,
don't stop for a second, just keep going, because this
could all disappear if I don't keep showing up and
being like, look, I can do this. I can write
(10:35):
this kind of song now, and I can play it
acoustically or I can like I was just constantly being like,
I can do it, like let me prove it to you.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
And with the people around you, some of the people
around you saying like this is amazing, like trying to
just slow you down or encourage you to just appreciate
what you had rather than keep pushing.
Speaker 1 (10:56):
They probably weren't trying to do anything like slow me
down or whatever, but I was so hungry that I
constantly thought someone was going to take it away from you.
So yeah, if they weren't working at the pace that
I wanted to work at, I was like, what's up?
You're not all in on this? Yeah you like you know,
whereas I came into the industry, didn't know anything, working
(11:19):
with people who had been in the industry their whole
life twenty thirty years or whatever, and they're looking at
it like, yeah, you just need to let's sit and
chill and no, don't do an album yet, do an EP.
And I'm like, why would I do an album, I
have the songs and getting all, you know, frustrated. If
I look back now and I'm like, yeah, I feel
in a better place now, but I definitely know I
(11:42):
wasn't in that place at the start.
Speaker 2 (11:44):
Now, when you look back and you think about when
you were pitching songs and putting yourself out there, do
you remember the names of the people who turned you like, yeah,
back on you? And do you hold grudges?
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Uh? I think I felt like this big weight off
my shoulders and it sounds really silly and poetic, but
once I released I said, Hi, I feel like that
song had a lot of bitterness and a lot of
anger in it. And I always feel free after I
release something and I'm like, they'll hear it, and then
(12:18):
I think that's I saw an interview with Taylor once
and it was really I really felt what she meant
when she said I'm so happy that my songs get heard.
She goes, that's the coolest thing about my job is
that now I know my songs will get heard. And
for years I remember watching that when I was still
on the grind and I was like, yeah, it must
(12:40):
be amazing, because all mind of falling on like the
seven people on MySpace, So just no traction then, and
now I get what she means. I'm like, it doesn't
matter what I put out, it's going to get heard.
And it's the best feeling ever.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
And I think you probably have a totally different level
of appreciation for it because you were kind of a
fully formed human by the time that all that success
found you, and you knew what it was like for
it to not come easily totally like it's probably a
really I don't know, it probably does a lot to
make you a better human having been through all those
(13:18):
years when you had all the success with Adore, you
did the Late Late Show with James cordon and the
Tonight Show with Jimmy Fallon. I don't know why those
just seem so terrifying to me, Like, out of just
all the things you've done, I don't know why the
image of that, like, I just that would just be
(13:39):
so scary. What were those nights? Like, what are you feeling?
What are you experiencing?
Speaker 1 (13:46):
Like terrifying? They really are. James Corden was different because
that was the first one and everything was feeling really
good and I didn't have time to get nervous I
kind of was just rolling out everything and yeah, it
was like one of the very first things I got offered.
So I was literally like quit my job. And then
(14:09):
I was on The Lach Show with James Gordon. It
was so stupid. And then by the time I did
Jimmy Fallon, I remember I was really tired. I was
on a tour and just wasn't in the best place
with the whole team and with everything. It's a mixture
of things, and I honestly just didn't want to do it.
(14:32):
I just felt so nervous, and I felt so much pressure,
and I wasn't happy, and I was tired and just
all the things and still managed to do it. I
think everyone does. Think you're just there with all your
people you love and adore, and you're just having champagne
and you're like, let's go do it. Oh, life's great,
and it's like everyone's falling apart in the background.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Yeah, you forget that even when people are having those
experiences that you watch from a distance and think, oh
my god, it's a fairy tale, yeah coming true, that
there's still all the normal tensions of life happening totally
behind the scenes, and you then went on to have
(15:16):
two years of huge like being the Golden Girl at
the Arias, And I want to ask about that because
that must be a little bit similar in from the outside,
everybody is watching it. You look absolutely beautiful. You are
just like you're ecstatic, You're giving acceptance speeches. Everything is
(15:38):
looking amazing. What's the behind the scenes like of something
like the Arias?
Speaker 1 (15:45):
The Arias is like kind of work which people don't understand. Yeah,
that's why, like all my friends are like, take me
or have some shampos and we'll It's just not like that.
It's a work night. Like even the very first Arias
I went to, I wasn't even nominated, and I spoke
that's where I met Dan Hume, who's done so much
(16:06):
of the production for my records. And you're constantly meeting
people who you may want to work with or so
you're always on. You know, it's not like I'm there
just like getting lit and celebrating the album. It's not
really a night. It is a night to do that,
but it's also a night to be prepared if you
do win something. And there's red carpets and I hate,
(16:28):
I hate, like I hate people looking at me. I
think it comes from I don't usually wear dresses and
things like that. It's only for very special events. And
if I ever did at my old job, everyone be like,
whoa Amy, if you got a date later or what's happening?
And I hate that. Yeah, So therefore I've always dressed
(16:48):
like just kind of hid a little bit. So the
aris you can imagine, I'm like, oh my god, how
am I going to do this? Like everyone's staring. I've
decided to have a hairstyle that's very look at me.
So but it is what it is. So yeah, you
just have to go into work mode and just find
that balance and just get through it.
Speaker 2 (17:08):
Is it weird knowing like going into something like the Arias,
I can imagine, especially when you're going in as like
the person of that year, that there are all these
options in terms of like how hectic you go with
like a dress and hair and makeup and all of
that that if you wanted to, you could go full
(17:29):
Kim Kardashian, or you could be more authentic to who
you are and somebody your fans will recognize. How have
you navigated that? The idea of like having an image
and keeping kind of some semblance of who you are
rather than just leaning into the like being a woman
(17:51):
in music.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
Yeah, I think it comes down to what you said
before about being like a full blown adult, Like I
think you can start freaking out and spiraling maybe when
you're younger and you're not really you don't really know
who you are yet. Because it took me so long
to work out the hell I was like so long,
like I just I just like writing songs. I don't
(18:15):
really care to look like Lady Gaga or I don't know.
I also like, I grew up liking punk music, and
I love when someone has their certain look and I
love going to see them and they look the way
they look, so you know, yeah, I guess like that's
(18:35):
with my hair. I never really I just kind of
fell into that and then I saw people doing it
and I was like, that's cool. That's really cool. So
that is as far as I think I go everything else.
I just like to be comfortable. I think the coolest
thing that my partner said when this was all happening,
I was like, what do I wear? Because I've had
(18:57):
years of like getting it wrong, years of like oh
my god, like photo shoots where I look like a
like Bambie and like just just like a not me.
And probably it's my fault too, because I didn't really know.
All I knew was I liked writing songs. So when
we started getting somewhere and I had a really big
meeting with the record label in America, It's like what
(19:19):
do I wear? And he's like, just wear whatever you're
comfortable with, and so I just would like jeans and
an added ass jacket and just put my sort of
hair up. And then the guy there was like, Amy,
I love your hair and I love the Adidas and
I was like, okay, great, And that's how it started.
It was just so casual and just the focus was
all on the music and the performance.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
Did anyone ever try to kind of morph you or
change your direction once you blew up, like especially once
you're in the US and people know who you are
there and you know you're probably making a lot of
people a lot of money. Is anybody trying to change
(20:02):
who you are musically or in terms of your image?
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Never? Wow. I think there was just sort of so
much there. Like I had the songs, I'd done the work,
people knew I was confident the way I looked, and
if I didn't look a certain way, I wouldn't be
able to speak and hold the room the way I could.
So I think everyone would just sat still and like, Okay,
it's working, let it go. Let it go to the
(20:28):
point where I was like my old manager, I was
walking with him one day and he goes, I'm really
glad that you keep it so simple. It's like it's
like a lot of artists have all these dread and
stylists that has to travel and like, how are you
going to fit all these dresses in there? You know?
And I'm like, well, I got like eighteen pairs of
black jeans and I've got like thirty white T shirts
and like you know. So so I think everyone was like, look,
(20:51):
it's it's different, and she's a bit different, but let's
just roll with this.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
After this short break. What happened when one of Amy's
songs went viral? Did fame and money make her happier?
Once a door goes completely viral? Do you feel extreme
pressure with what you do next? And do you feel
(21:20):
paralyzed by that pressure?
Speaker 1 (21:22):
I didn't at that time, because I just knew I
had so many songs and I was so excited to
show them to the point where I was like, I
don't want to be known as the adoor girl. I
want to keep putting music out, and I think that's
what drove a lot of people crazy. They were like, no,
but we need to really rinse this song. It's doing
really well. So that's where my obsession came with, like, no,
(21:44):
I want to keep going, keep moving, like keep up
with me, just in experience. But no, I didn't. I
don't know. I just didn't feel I had one musician
and I won't obviously say the name of this person,
but they were like, yeah, I mean it's going to
be hard to like back up a door, and I
was trying not to let it get to me. It
(22:06):
was said in a very smug way. So instead of
backfisting this person, I was just like, you're watching your baby.
You've got no idea what I have on my sleep.
Speaker 2 (22:17):
What didn't you expect about fame? Because I imagine in
those years where you were pursuing music, you probably unconsciously
imagined what that life would look like. What would people
not know about the reality of being a famous, successful musician?
Speaker 1 (22:41):
Oh so much? That's so loaded, I feel like, especially
now like I'm in album three, sort of phase, so
the dust is settled, you know, you can start seeing
who's changed. And it's a really interesting time for me.
And sometimes it can be super heartbreaking because it's just
so turbulent, like it really is, especially when you've come
(23:05):
from working nine to five super pedestrian life and then
the next minute and it you really don't know where.
There's no book, and especially now music's in another whole ballgame.
It's so different. Like even when I first started, I
remember management being able to sit there and forecast exactly
(23:27):
where I would be, what venues I'd be playing, where
my album would come in, at all these things, and
they got it all right because they could see the stats,
and it blew my mind. And now just knowing what
I know now and the people I've met, and they're like,
there's no rule book anymore. There's no forecasting. We have
no idea what's working, what will work, what won't work.
(23:51):
So it's just navigating every day and it can be
very stressful and there's just no certainty about anything, and
no one knows that.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
And how do you deal with the fact that, I
guess for a lot of people, you can't do me
music forever for a lot of people, there's kind of
a window in which you've got this amazing career. How
do you compartmentalize your music career and the rest of
(24:25):
your life.
Speaker 1 (24:26):
Yeah, it's a really hard balance. It'll be at a
time where I'm the busiest, where I'll be like, I
haven't spoken to the kids, like my nieces and nephews
who I'm very close with. God, i haven't spoken to
them in a minute, like, and I'll just almost put
this pressure on myself at the worst times and never
let myself relax. I still just don't know how to relax.
Like it's even when we go on holidays, we're kind
(24:47):
of pretending, like like we're there lying on a deck
chair with a panic collater and still being like, Okay,
so we'll do this, and then we'll do that too,
and then we'll all the social media bullshit. It's like,
it's just so so hard to get that perfect balance.
And I don't know if any musician really does, but
I'm always trying really hard to get better at that.
(25:08):
And I think the best thing that I have is
I'm not obsessed with it. Like I've proven everything I
wanted to prove, and I think I'll always be able
to be comfortable. So if it ever took its toll
on my family or my relationship or anything like that,
(25:29):
I'm happy to give it away and just move somewhere random.
And I'm not obsessed with being in the limelight. I've
done it so much because there's been cool opportunities like
Australian Idol, like all these things, and I'm like, oh,
that's interesting, and we're always on my manager and partner
and myself like that's cool, let's do it. Let's see
(25:50):
what happens. So everything's been fine up until now. But
I think it's okay. I feel okay about it because
in the back of my head I know that I
don't need it. It's just cool to do. But if
it got really intense, I'm happy to walk away.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
Yeah. Yeah. How has it been in terms of money
changing things? Because if you're doing gigs and you're just
working a typical job, I can imagine you've got a
certain relationship with money and you're getting by and that
sort of thing, and then you blow up, and I
(26:24):
imagine that changes your financial situation. Does money buy happiness?
Speaker 1 (26:29):
Money makes some things easier, but it also causes a
lot of problems, like that song is legit more money,
more problems.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
I'm always interested in as somebody who can't relate to
the problems. What problems.
Speaker 1 (26:47):
It's a hard one to explain. It exposes all the
rest of the problems because you're like, oh, hang on
a minute, got like a stack of money. Why am
I feeling empty? Yeah, it's yeah, it's pretty funny because
it also just changes the dynamic of so many things,
because I think people think I'm like a billionaire or
(27:09):
something like even my family, Like I'll get sent links
of palaces around Europe and I'm like you should buy this,
Like sit down. I'm like I'm good. Yeah, So I
think people and I used to think it too. I
used to see people on television and go, oh, all
the money in the world, they've probably got private jets,
(27:30):
And I mean you do. You're like, yeah, you work hard,
you have songs that do well, you have opportunities to
get to do that make your money. But it's also,
like I said before, you don't know how long that's
going to last. Life's long if you're lucky. So yeah,
you're constantly looking at it like okay, well that's cool
for now. And some people. When you have a good catalog,
(27:54):
I guess there are times where you can look it
into the future and go oh cool, like I'll sell
it then and that'll be worth this much and you
can do a little bit of that. But yeah, the
rest of it's all up in the air. So you've
got to be really clever. You know. I'm lucky. I
married an accountant, so I've got this nerd with me
all the time knowing what to do. So but I
can see how people get all this success and just
blow it all and get really excited and then things
(28:18):
happen and life happens, and then all of a sudden,
you're like, shit, what am I going to do?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Like I know exactly what you mean. That money comes in,
and it would be easy to assume that that amount
of money is going to come in for the rest
of your life, and you've got to be smart in thinking, actually,
hold on, I've got to be aware of this being
a particularly profitable moment in a very long lifetime. Does
(28:45):
money make life easier?
Speaker 1 (28:48):
Like I said before, Like yeah, in some ways, like
in the classic ways you think, like being outed by
a house or certain things, little treats and holidays and
whatever become more comfortable. Yeah, like, but the overheads go up,
so you know, you're like, oh, I need help with that,
(29:11):
and I need help with this, and they all need
to be paid. And I want my shows to look
like this because I'm playing these rooms, so I need
production to be this. And my band's amazing, so they
need to be paid. So it's like, yeah, people don't
know how much things cost, like it all kind of
adds up. And if you want to do something at
a high level and good quality, yeah, man, that money
(29:35):
can like go really quickly.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Speaking of Shane, you have been together since just after
you finished school. What's the dynamic of having your partner
manage you? I want to know the best part and
the worst part.
Speaker 1 (29:58):
So loaded we could be here for a long time.
The best part is he knows me better than anyone.
I trust him with absolutely everything. He knows the Amy
sh ar project better than I do. He's very smart
with his decisions and that makes me comfortable. And then
(30:19):
I guess the hard bit is learning to be like, hey,
I'm also your wife. We love each other, like you know,
just a reminder and we're both so busy. Like Shane's
calendar is just as busy as mine, so we literally
have to put it in the iCal dinner, like try
(30:39):
not talk about work.
Speaker 2 (30:42):
So there's a theory that in romantic relationships and in
professional relationships, you really just have the same fight over
and over again. It just kind of takes a different form.
What is your fight with your husband?
Speaker 1 (30:56):
The constant fight is. So we'll have our separate days
and I would have just been you know, going go
and going interview whatever whatever I'm doing, even if I'm
in the studio and he's had I had all these
conversations and worked all through the day and done some
planning and that, and I'll always want to know what's
(31:18):
going on because it's actually my business too. So but
he's had a day and has not got off the
phone and he's like, oh, babe, I just and I'm like,
I just don't know anything. Ever, He's like, I know,
I know, but like I've literally just been talking about
you all day. And I really feel for him, because
it's not just the day that he speaks about me
(31:38):
with agents and whoever. He'll go to the pub and
be like, oh it's Amy Shark's husband or hey, mate,
saw Amy's done this, it's Amy, Amy, Amy, and like
I would hate me, and he does this so well
because he obviously loves me very much. But I can
understand when he's like, there's so much to fill you
(32:00):
in on. I just like if we could just talk
about anything else, and that's what usually I'm like, Oh,
but I want to know.
Speaker 2 (32:07):
Yeah, I want to know what's.
Speaker 1 (32:08):
Going on, like you know. So that that's the constant
because essentially we work in the same thing, but we're
doing different things for the day usually, so yeah, I
always hassle him about that, and he hassles me about
leaving him alone.
Speaker 2 (32:24):
That is an interesting dynamic that like do you think
he ever feels in the shadows a bit? Like, for example,
I can imagine if you went somewhere like you're right
because of your profile and who you are, people would
be like, oh my gosh, Amy, tell me about X
y Z. Do you think sometimes he feels overshadowed.
Speaker 1 (32:47):
Coolest thing about Shane is doesn't give a shit. Y
could not care you won't see him at anything. He's
so happy for me, and he's happy that he knows
he's done a brilliant job at managing me. And he
doesn't like people, like he doesn't like well, he does
like people, Sorry, he just doesn't like people. He's just
(33:11):
so happy it's worked right, and he loves his job.
He gets to work in music, and you know, he's
got such a big hand in the A and R
ring of the record and he gets so much from that.
I think he's just proud like when people come up.
But he obviously has his moments where he's like, oh
my god, one more person, and then we'll go to
his parents, and then his parents want to ask everything.
(33:33):
So he's constantly just on, you know, and it's very exhausting.
But when it comes to feeling in the shadows, like
he's never wanted to be a musician. He doesn't like
the limelight. He's actually a very shy guy, so until
he has a few beers, but like, yeah, he's just
not that person. Which is great because I've seen couples
and I've seen guy or the wife or whoever just
(33:55):
being like trying to sort of use that to jump
start their career or like you know, they're just like
I want to do something too, Now what can I do?
Speaker 2 (34:04):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (34:05):
Yeah yeah, yeah, so yeah I'm lucky.
Speaker 2 (34:07):
Yeah, And it's probably a huge blessing that you've been
together for so long, and that together before all of
this happened.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
I honestly like, if something happened with us, that's me done.
I don't have it in me to learn anyone else
or to meet other parents of people. I'm tapped. I'm done,
Like especially now, Like I look at people with profiles
and they're dating, and I'm like, Jesus, babe, does he
know like like or you know, vice versa, like are
(34:39):
you dating this girl? Like? Is she just dating you
because you're such and such? Like it's it must be
so hard. I'm really glad that that. Yeah, I don't
have to do that.
Speaker 2 (34:51):
After the break, the surprising times when Amy thought she'd
feel her happiest but didn't. I often talk on this
podcast about the idea that the world lies to us
a bit about happiness and that often the moments we
(35:13):
expect to be the happiest actually aren't. And so I
often ask people if they have a moment they can
think of where the world told them they'd be happy
and they weren't. Like everything appeared from the outside to
be super shiny and happy and together, and behind the
scenes it was a very different story.
Speaker 1 (35:36):
Yeah, it's more just you'll have moments of wow, this
is hard, and especially now more than any other time.
Like I've obviously had moments at the late night shows
where people think I'm living it up and I'm like
crying in the bathroom, don't want to go out and
play the show. So there's all those little things sort
(35:56):
of throughout the last eight years. But there's times where
you can't really explain it. You's sort of just sitting
still and you really don't know what the next move is,
and there's a lot of pressure and people think you're
this when you're really still just that and I don't
I can't explain it, but it gets really I can
(36:19):
see how artists really need to check in with their
mental health because it's just hard to put your finger
on it. Be like, I don't know what makes me happy.
I don't know I've traveled the world. I don't even
know what a holiday. I don't know like And honestly,
I had the best conversation with Tom's the launch, which
sounds crazy on this boat the day of his show,
(36:40):
and I was talking to him and I'm like, this
is so fun, Like you know, we're on the Sydney
Harbor and he's like, is it you're having fun and
I'm like, yeah, aren't you guys. I don't know anymore, guys,
I guess. So he's like, Dan, I feel that way,
and I'm like, yeah, I guess. Like I tour so much,
so the thought of packing a bag form of fun.
It's like, huh, what, like where are we going to go?
(37:02):
That's actually fun that we're gonna because it's hard to explain.
You you associate travel and being these certain places with
work now. So yeah, Tom was like, I don't know
when I'm happy anymore, and I'm like that's so sad,
and I'm just like, yeah, I guess I see glimmers
of that every now and then you can have all
(37:23):
this shit and it's still like like I honestly, and
then I'll go watch my niece skate and when I
see her run up to me like just drops everything.
That's probably the most endorphin of happiness. I'm like, I'm
so happy, like just seeing her happy and to see me,
which is crazy, but like the littlest things that didn't
(37:43):
mean shit before. Really it's like that's the coolest thing
about having all these massive highs that you never thought
you'd have because the simplest things are so special.
Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yeah, that kind of image of being on a boat
and him saying is it, Like, is it? I think
that's really profound because someone like him and someone like you,
you must find yourself in these situation where you're in
beautiful parts of the world and beautiful venues and you're
being doted on.
Speaker 1 (38:15):
Ye.
Speaker 2 (38:16):
And it's all the criteria of what makes for a
happy moment, and the fact is that you just you
don't always feel that way. Yeah, And sometimes you're just
not really in the moment for whatever reason.
Speaker 1 (38:30):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:31):
Is there any guilt that comes with that? I mean
I know for me that there have been times where,
like it's meant to be the happiest moment, I don't
feel that, And then comes the secondary emotion of beating
myself up because I don't feel how I yeh think
I'm meant to feel. Have you ever had that?
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Yeah? I think I had that. We always talk about
our wedding night because like I was so done, Like
I was just like we like smoke bomb from our
own wedding and then I was so happy. The next
day we were off to Hawaii, and I was like
happier than I was walking down the aisle. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
seriously it's yeah. And then you're like, oh, man, I
should have spoken to Arnie. Oh I didn't really, I
(39:11):
wasn't really there. I was like somewhere else. Yeah, all
the time. I mean, Sunday sadness was built from that
feeling of like that particular day night, I'm like, wait
a minute, have I spoken to that? Have I replied?
Or I haven't done much with family. I haven't even
checked in on anyone. I've just it's all been me, me, me,
(39:32):
Oh my god, I'm a monster, like you know, like
that's all the time. I'm always beating myself up.
Speaker 2 (39:39):
You have worked with some really big names in music,
people like Ed Sheeran and Jack Antonov, who often writes
with Taylor Swift, and I can imagine You've been in
rooms with some really, really, really famous people. What's your
mindset going into a studio with Ed Sheeran? Are you terrified, excited,
(40:04):
scared that you're gonna do something stupid? Like? How do
you feel?
Speaker 1 (40:09):
Well?
Speaker 3 (40:10):
That the situation was really hardcore because I was also
jet lagged, so I flew there and didn't have much
time to get on the time zone, and then you're
in your head You're like, I have to sleep, Like
I have to sleep because if I don't sleep, I'm
gonna be tired and it'll be weirdo.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
I'm gonna be weirdo. Amy. Anytime I have a big
thing like that, everyone's like, you know, just go in
and have a good time and just see what happens.
I'm like, fuck off. Yeah, we all want to hit,
we all want like so the pressure is so on,
and also I want to show people like ed that
I can write that, like, you know, think of me
next time. You know you're putting to these writing camps
(40:49):
or whatever, So yeah, you want to step up and flex.
And seeing him walk in was really crazy because it
was like, I can't believe this is happening. I'm here
because you're kind of you're always like, is he going
to pull out or is this actually going to go ahead? Yeah,
he's like I.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
Am.
Speaker 1 (41:07):
And then but you find that pros have a way
of making you feel so calm and relaxed. It's all
the fake egotistical twats that don't know how to do that,
and you're like, oh, that's a bit of a bummer,
but all the pros and people that actually have longevity
(41:31):
make you feel so relaxed and like, just get the
best out of you straight away.
Speaker 2 (41:36):
I've always wanted this. Do you go into a session
like that, like cold, like you're kind of like, I
really hope something comes out in this session. Or do
you go in with ideas under your belt that you
are going to pitch throughout the session and maybe act
like they came up organically.
Speaker 1 (41:56):
I always have things in my pocket. Yeah, always, I'm
never going in there without something for backup, just in case.
You know, when you're writing a song from scratch you
really like, especially with someone ed, straight away you realize
I don't think I need reinforcements. He's on fire, which
(42:16):
is inspiring me, and this is sounding great, and yeah,
you just trust the process because once again you with
a pro and everything is fine. But I always have
ideas always. I've never really let a full thing go
and acted like it's we've done it together. Yeah, because
they don't let you. It's not like it just doesn't work.
(42:40):
It's almost like they can sniff that. I think, so
I prepared, yeah, yeah, and usually it's not even that good,
like with what you could do with this person, so
you kind of just a few ideas, maybe topical things.
I try not have, like I never have a whole
song ready to go. It's more just a line that
I love, or a couple of chords that I might
(43:01):
love and or a riff or you know, something just
to kick it off in case I turn up and
ed it's like, what do you got? YEA yeah, kind
of with you because you're like a big deal.
Speaker 2 (43:16):
Has anyone disappointed you, Like anybody that you've met in
the industry and had really high expectations of don't have
to name names, but have you had an experience where
you went in really expecting to have a connection with
somebody to you know, maybe it's meeting somebody who's an idol,
(43:39):
and then it has not been that.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
Not that I've worked with, but I've been in a
I guess a hang environment where I've been like, oh, yeah,
a bit of it. You're just not who I thought
you were and that's fine.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
And what kind of personality traits do you notice?
Speaker 1 (43:59):
Just too cool? Yeah, okay, just way too cool and
that's fine. But I don't know, I just feel like
the world's past that and maybe if you're I don't know,
on show it somewhere where that's your persona or whatever.
When you're in a when you're in a place where
there are other musicians who are yeah, I just like,
(44:21):
what do you think you look like right now? Yeah? Yeah,
like yeah, it's just a bit like oh, but I
don't really walk away going, oh my god, I'm shattered
that that person has laid me down. All the people
I've worked with legends and so kind and still speak
to today.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
So when you get to this point in your career,
do you experience jealousy and does your kind of benchmark
of what you're jealous of change? Because, for example, when
you're doing gigs, you might look at somebody on Triple
(44:57):
J and be like, damn, I wish I was them.
And now you're at your level, are you looking at
Taylor Swift? I mean I want to do that.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Anyone that's looking at Taylor going on to do that
is a psycho sit down. It's never gonna happen, do
you know? It's more it's more these days, simple things
that I see that I'm like, I think I wish
I was there. Like it's mainly just around my niece's nephews,
and I'm like, oh man, I wish I was at
(45:23):
her birthday right now, or like I get jealous of
the little weird things. But it's very normal to still
look at someone having a massive song that you're like,
that's such a good song. I don't know if it's jealousy,
but it's definitely like, oh man, why don't I think
of it?
Speaker 2 (45:41):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, you know.
Speaker 1 (45:43):
I used to be when I first started, I was
like even jealous of ah man, they're getting more of
my manager's attention, or they're like you know what I mean,
like needy little bitch vibes. But I don't have them anymore,
thank god.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
I want to talk about TikTok. You made the funniest
TikTok about whether it's worth being a musician right now,
and you said your label. You're being told go live
on Instagram, post some Instagram reels, some TikTok content, go
live on TikTok, get some things up on Facebook, some
Facebook reels, do some YouTube shorts, Facebook fan groups, Instagram, broadcast, LinkedIn, Tinder, Grinder,
(46:25):
and real estate dot com. And I laughed out loud
at my sister and I have shared that so many times.
Obviously those last times are a joke, but genuinely the
other ones are not. You have to work really hard
at social media when you're a musician right now, because
it's essentially your biggest marketing tool. How does that sit
(46:45):
with you in terms of being an artist?
Speaker 1 (46:48):
It's really exhausting, and I'm lucky that I have a
sense of humor and I can have a bit of
fun with it if I must do it. But I'm
also the type that I don't have anyone doing my
social media because so many artists are like, what are
you crazy? Like, just get someone to do it, It's like,
but they won't right like me. They won't edit it
(47:10):
like me, they won't use the same songs that I
like to use. It's just so personal, and that's the
main channel for me to show people who I am.
If someone messes it up, if I'm not driving it,
I'm petrified. That's what you choose to show people bits
(47:31):
of your life. So it's very important to me to
have a hold on that. But did I ever think
there'd be so many fucking things to do? No? At
the start, it was just like Instagram and Facebook or whatever,
and then TikTok comes from along and I'm like, oh,
this is kind of fun. Like I used to make
videos all the time, like funny ones and whatever. But
(47:51):
then yeah, when you add them all up, and I
don't even want to say the word threads because that's
something I am willing to.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
I think we all draw the line. I can't.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
I got to kill it. Kill it, everyone, boycott please,
I can't do it. I took myself off Twitter, which
I love. I'm loving not being on that. That's something management.
Just whatever I've put out, they just copy that put
on Twitter. It's a nasty, nasty place, and especially once
you're on television, it's such so brutal out there. But
(48:27):
I'm going blinde It's great. It's amazing. Kyle actually said
that to me. He said, I don't look at anything
because I walk through the day thinking everything's fineody things
are not okay. Yeah, speaking of.
Speaker 2 (48:44):
That, you've done two seasons of a styline Idol. You
won a LOGI for your role as a judge on
the show. How have you found TV and have you
found those criticisms different?
Speaker 1 (48:57):
Yeah, they go up another level, I think because your
profile just goes up another level, Like even now walking around,
I could have a hat on or a beanie and
people know my face now like it's no there's no hiding,
which is fine. Like I wasn't fine for the first season.
I really I was really reclusive and didn't want to
go out anywhere I couldn't be bothered. I'm like, oh,
if someone sees me, I'm not done up and I
(49:18):
can't be bothered. Whatever, And then friends and Shane were
just like, you can't live like that. You need to
be able to go to dinner and go out and
just who cares. And so now I'm really good with it.
I'm just like, ah, look whatever if I look like shit,
I like shit.
Speaker 2 (49:34):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:35):
So but yeah, people get really nasty on line when
you're I feel like it's just because you're in their
face a lot. Like I feel like I'm on radio
or now I'm on their TV, and it's like, if
you don't like me, you're really going to get annoyed
with that.
Speaker 2 (49:51):
And I feel like people have a weird thing and
yes with TV where they're almost like you're trying to
be in my face and therefore I get to get
angry at you. Yep, And it's like I'm not trying
to be I'm just doing my job and you have
the TV.
Speaker 1 (50:06):
On, Yeah you're on that channel, yes time, and that
I'm on that channel, babe, And I'm.
Speaker 2 (50:12):
Not doing anything to go out of my way, yeah,
to irritate you. I imagine you've built a really thick skin
from music and from dealing with rejection. Were there any
criticisms that came with being on TV that surprised you
with how much they hurt?
Speaker 1 (50:29):
When it's your character, when people really think you're this
other person, it's really hard to not fight back and
protect yourself and whatever. And then I think the other
hard thing is friends and family think they need to
weigh in and you're like, it actually makes it worse. Yes,
And then especially now where I really don't care, Like
(50:52):
I mean that I do not care. You could write
the most gnarly thing about me and I just would
not It just wouldn't touch the sides. But trying to
explain that to friends and family they don't believe you.
I just don't believe you. And I'm like, you don't
get it, Like I hit a stage now and I've
actually been like this for my whole life. You hurt
me enough, I'll just put you in a and I'll
never look at you again. And it's a bit gnarly,
(51:13):
like Shane always says, Jesus Rice you are. But it's
how I've had to do things. And there's very few
people that have hit me hard enough that I'm like, oh, okay, cool,
You're nothing to me now, you don't affect me whatever.
But that's what online is to me.
Speaker 2 (51:31):
Now.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
If I see a name that's like not, I'm like, oh,
I don't care. What if I don't care, You're not
my friend or my fani you know in my circles.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
What did people say about your character?
Speaker 3 (51:43):
Oh?
Speaker 1 (51:44):
Just that I'm nasty and calculated and I don't trust her.
And oh what does she know? She doesn't even sing,
and she's only she can't sing. She's only famous because
of who she's worked with. She doesn't even like. People
are just saying yes, outright lies, you know. And then
(52:05):
I've also got to remember there are kids on there,
so they'll be like like, sometimes I'll read it and
be like, oh, that's right, there's kids on here writing
the like I think it's an adult, but they're just
like you suck in purple, like or don't ever wear
glitter again because glitter is my favorite. And you're like,
are people okay out there?
Speaker 2 (52:23):
And probably with family and friends? It hurts them too,
Like they're probably looking at it and being hurt independent
of whether you feel it. They're like, I feel hurt
because I love that person and I know who that
person is. That's not who they are. It's such a
hard thing to turn away from. But I think the
healthiest thing is genuinely if you don't see it, it's
(52:45):
not there.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
It's so great. Oh my god, I could honestly be
getting completely canceled right now and I wouldn't know.
Speaker 2 (52:51):
You wouldn't know, You wouldn't know what currently keeps you
from happiness? Like, what would you say is your biggest
barrier to happiness at this point in your life?
Speaker 1 (53:03):
Probably a mixture of workload and having a profile. I
think if I was an Amy Shark, if I was
still just Ames who's worked at the Golcos Titans. Sometimes
there's things I really miss about people not wanting me
there to get a photo with their kids, or can
(53:24):
you sign this? It's weird you want that for so long.
You're like, someone just know I am? How cool? Signing autographs,
and then it's just that tailor as old as time.
Just be careful what you wish for. Sometimes I'm nowhere
near that, Like I feel like I've got a good
handle on things. I just put good people around me,
(53:44):
and people that I've gotten weird, I'm just I just
distanced myself from. But but yeah, there's definitely sometimes you're like, oh,
that's let me down a little bit, that that person's
now treating me different, or and you just you can't
go back. It's something you just can't flick the switch.
And remember when we did speak about other things apart
from the record or idol or charts or the tour
(54:07):
or whatever.
Speaker 2 (54:08):
You know, someday sad you say that you're in your
sadness era? What does that mean? And what is it
like to explore sadness through music? Does it help you cope?
Speaker 1 (54:27):
It's a bit of a play on words and titles,
to be honest, like, because this has got some real
playful songs on it on this album, But you ask
any artist, it's really hard to come up with some
kind of title for your album because all the good
shit's taken. But what I will say is all my
albums have been quite emotional, and when I am happy,
(54:49):
I'm out being happy. I'm not really sitting there feeling
all melancholy. So it's the times that I do right
and the things that are playing on my mind are
the sadder feelings. So it's just who I am as
an artist. I can't help it. So the whole Sunday
Sadness was just I felt like overarching theme that kind
(55:12):
of comes in and out of the whole record. Even
the happy sounding songs have a little emo in there,
so and it just sounded cool. Sunday sadness kind of
sounded cool, and the sadness to us sounds cool too. Obviously,
people know that I'm not going to be sitting there
crying and the light's going to be dim and like
it's going to be it's gonna be rock show, like
(55:33):
it's gonna be wild out there. It's who I am.
Like that that kind of storytelling as an artist is
really important to me, and that feeling of being okay
with documenting sad times and sad ish stories, even to
sad ish melodies and production. So music I grew up
(55:56):
loving for some reason as a kid, well, I was
like to think of myself as a happy kid. I
really took to the kind of Emao we sadder songs
and voices.
Speaker 2 (56:08):
Even though you're releasing this album Sunday Sadness, and you
experience obviously the full spectrum of human emotions, and that's
what makes music so beautiful. It's the expression of those
Would you say that right now you are happy?
Speaker 1 (56:26):
Yeah? I think I would. Yeah, Like I'm human, So
there's times where things are crap, but I reckon now
after being where I am now, yeah I'm happy. Yeah,
it's not on brand for the record, but yeah, thank.
Speaker 2 (56:46):
You so much for your time today. I really appreciate it.
Speaker 1 (56:48):
Thank you, yere. It was a fun chat.
Speaker 2 (56:51):
That's all we've got time for on today's episode of
But Are You Happy? I hope this conversation made you
think about those big goals you have for yourself, all
those things you really really wish for that you assume
will solve all your problems, and once you get their,
(57:11):
life will be uncomplicated, everything will be joyous, and all
your striving will be resolved because no matter where you are,
there are always going to be peaks and troughs in
your experience. And even if you get the thing you desperately,
desperately want. It is not going to be one dimensional.
(57:34):
This is something I'm still figuring out. I think all
of us have those ideas of what we can achieve
that will fix all of our problems, and it is
just not that simple. That's why I really like this
show and these conversations, because they show that even the
people we look at from a distance and assume they
(57:55):
have everything going through a lot of the same emotional
experiences that we all are. For more from Amy, go
and listen to her brand new album, Sunday Sadness, and
I want to thank her for her vulnerability and her candidness.
And I hope you got something out of this conversation.
And if there's anyone you know who you think will
(58:17):
love it, please share it with them. If you want
to recommend anyone for the show, you can always slide
into my DMS. I love your suggestions. They are often
the guests that we reach out to, the ones you
guys have suggested. If you like the show, leave us
a review because it helps people find us and we
(58:38):
always love your feedback. Join me next week for one
of the most moving conversations I've ever had on this
podcast with comedian and actor Steph Tisdall. The executive producer
of That Are You Happy is Niama Brown and the
producer is Charlie Blackman. Audio editing by Scott Stronik and
(58:58):
I'm your host Claire Stevens. See you next week.
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