What Harry Garside Knows About Failure, Fame & His Feminine Side

Failure is something we all face at some point—whether it’s a big setback or a small disappointment. After losing his boxing match at the Paris Olympics, Harry Garside felt like he had failed the entire country of Australia.

In this episode, Clare Stephens chats with Harry about the surprising emptiness he felt after winning a gold medal at the Tokyo Olympics in 2021. He opens up about the moment he was publicly arrested for something he didn’t do and how that experience helped him build a better relationship with himself. Plus, Harry shares his thoughts on embracing his feminine side and why he can't stand the term "toxic positivity."

Is Harry Garside happy? You’ll have to listen to find out.

THE END BITS

Subscribe to Mamamia

• You can find out more about Harry’s book The Good Fight here. 

• Find your meditation match: Click to take the free quiz.

GET IN TOUCH:

Send us a voice message or email us at [e-mail] to share your feedback about the show or to suggest a guest. 

CREDITS:

Host: Clare Stephens

Guest: Harry Garside 

Executive Producer: Naima Brown

Producer: Tahli Blackman

Audio Producer: Scott Stronach

Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.

Support the show: https://www.mamamia.com.au/mplus/

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:11):
You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Mamma mea acknowledges the traditional owners of the land and
waters that this podcast is recorded on.

Speaker 1 (00:22):
That period of my life was like extremely low and
extremely like a bit of a blur, but it's so powerful,
Like I feel like that was actually the turning point
in my life where I built a better relationship with myself.

Speaker 2 (00:37):
Hello, and welcome to But Are You Happy? The podcast
that asked the questions you've always wanted to know from
the people who appear to have it all. I'm Claire
Stevens and about six weeks ago I saw a video
I haven't been able to stop thinking about. It was
of twenty seven year old Australian boxer Harry Garside after
he lost in the first round at the Paras Olympics. Initially,

(00:59):
he cried and was unable to speak. It was as
though we were watching him in real time process the
fact that his most vivid life goal, the one he'd
spent his whole adult life working towards, was over. In
nine minutes. He'd gone from an Olympic hopeful to feeling,
in his words during a postmatch interview, like a failure.

(01:20):
I didn't envision this happening, He said, I could see
the gold medal in all the visualizations and it all
went wrong. With his head bowed, looking shattered, we watch
Garside come to terms with the significance of this loss.
The sun will come up tomorrow and whatever happens. But
I just know the next few months for myself will
be a pretty hard time, he said. I'm sure I'll

(01:42):
have some dark moments and I'm fucking terrified, to be honest.
About a month after the Games, I interviewed Harry Garside
about failure, about the moment he was very publicly arrested
for something he didn't do, about the time he did
have a medal around his neck and was shocked to
find he felt empty. Harry is warm and charismatic and insightful,

(02:07):
and ultimately he's so much more than the outcome of
a boxing match, even one taking place at the Olympics.
Here's Harry Garside. I want to start by asking, did
you grow up in a happy family? Was happiness prioritized
in your home?

Speaker 1 (02:26):
Oh, I've never been asked that question before. It's so
interesting because I guess any childhood like, there's good and
bad to it, right, my parents like they didn't have
too much money and they were raising three boys into
the Azure five and I felt distress definitely for my parents.
But we also got like a lot of opportunities, Like
we spent a lot of time in the Victorian high country,
like full driving or camping, and I think that was

(02:48):
really good for my growth, like being in nature and
just being very curious about the land and about things.
And I'm really grateful for that. But I think just
like any childhood, there's highs and lows. There's good, there's bad.
And I wouldn't say that it was it was either
happy or not happy. Like it's a good question because
it's like, I don't know if any human can ever
fully have a happy childhood, right because and it's all

(03:10):
it's like, if a kid did have just like a
pure happy childhood, it's like, are you doing them at disservice?
Because life's going to knock them down when they're an
adult and they've never experienced that before. It's like, are
you doing them at disservice if you don't experience the
whole range of human emassions with.

Speaker 2 (03:24):
Them and build some resilience from like a really young
age in terms of your mum and dad. Do you
feel like they are happy people? Do they struggle with happiness?
Like when you were growing up and seeing your parents,
did you see people who approached life with a zest

(03:44):
and a joy or people who you think struggle to
do that?

Speaker 1 (03:47):
Ooh, So I feel like I take after my dad
a fair bit, But then the older I get, I
feel like I've probably take after both of them just
as equally. But my dad. I found many moments in
my childhood where I would reflect on my dad being
like their class clown or like the one at the pub,
being the funny guy, but people often laughed at him,
not with him, And I think he felt this need

(04:09):
to play that character right, And I definitely felt that
for a lot of my childhood as well, like I
felt this need to prove myself, especially to men in
my life. And I definitely see some similarities to my dad.
And it's been really beautiful to sort of see his
growth as a human too. The more open that I
can be about being myself, it's actually encouraged him a
little bit to be that too, which has been really nice.
My mom's a little bit more like like staunch and

(04:32):
like a householdful of men. She's the only woman, and
she she's the strongest one by far, Like she rules
the roofs, and all the boys know that in the family,
Like you don't backchat mom, like you don't disrespect mom,
like everyone knows that. And Mom's always been very staunch,
which is just nice. So in that it was like
she was happy, of course, singly wrong, she was herself,
but also as well, she was like the leader of

(04:52):
the roost. So it's like we didn't really want to
like make her unhappy.

Speaker 3 (04:55):
Or yeah, sad.

Speaker 1 (04:56):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
I want to jump forward to the recent paras Olympics.
So at the end of July, your lifelong dream of
winning gold at the Olympics was over in just nine minutes,
and after the fire you collapsed onto the floor, and
then you gave an interview directly afterwards. That struck a
lot of people. So I have a group chat with

(05:17):
some of my closest friends, and one friend, who is
a blokey bloke didn't even know he was watching the Olympics,
didn't even know what he was doing, messaged us and said,
holy shit, have you guys seen this interview?

Speaker 3 (05:28):
And he sent it to us and.

Speaker 2 (05:29):
We all talked about how refreshing and moving that vulnerability was.
You said, two decades dedicated to one dream and it's over.
Just like that, I feel like I've let myself down.
I feel like a failure right now. I don't even
know what to say. I fear for what the next
couple of months look like for myself. Did you make
a conscious decision in that moment to choose vulnerability rather

(05:53):
than those default athlete answers that we get.

Speaker 1 (05:56):
I've always sort of tried my best to move with
authenticity and whatever comes out comes out, and I don't
always live up to that. Like sometimes you do have
to play like a little bit of a character, like
I'm not going to lay out my deepest, darkest secrets
to people that I don't know. But it's like in
that moment, I genuinely was terrified, like I have failed
a number of times in my life, or I've been
through like a breakup, or like my family, I've had problems,

(06:18):
and it's like just seeing the things that I turned
to in those moments, like I was genuinely terrified, like
this meant so much to me, and it's almost like
I felt those emotions. I went out the back where
there's no cameras around, and I like, howed, I haven't
cried like that in a long time. And I think
it's almost like my body just took over. It's like
full and self preservation mode right now. Like I wouldn't

(06:39):
say I'm feeling emotions too much right now, and I
think there's like this little safety kind of mechanism going
on that it's like trying to protect me. And I've
said when this book too is done, I'm doing a
little book tour at the moment, and when I can
have it a free time, I'm going to do like
four or five days in nature and get the phone,
put it in my car, not touch it, and just
be by myself and who knows what will come up,

(06:59):
but create the space for something to come up. And
it might be happiness. It might be joy. It might
be like, oh, thank God that Olympic journey's over. Yeah,
Or it might be sadness and anger and frustration with myself.
I'm not sure, bro, I want to create that space.

Speaker 2 (07:12):
It's interesting you said in another interview that you felt
really numb, and I agree that sometimes when something really
challenging happens, it's like you'll almost go into that self
preservation mode, and I reckon you go into it for
a while and once you come out of it, you've
actually healed, but you weren't even conscious that you were healing.

(07:36):
How does the loss sit with you now? Like I
know you said you're not kind of feeling all the emotions,
but day to day are you feeling better or worse
than you thought you would?

Speaker 1 (07:50):
It's interesting. I think if I lost five years ago,
my answer would be completely different. But I think I
have really worked on my identity outside of boxing, Like
my whole life, my identity was consumed with that of
only being a boxer and I the win. I felt
the win. I was like, yes, I'm the man. The loss,
I was like, it's me. I felt like a failure.
I was, And it's like, I don't know if I

(08:12):
ever I'll ever fully break that, like I've done it
for twenty years, right. It is very much a big
part of my identities or my whole identity though, but
I have created something outside of that, And I also
know like who I am as a person, Like boxing
is what I do, it's not who I am, and
I have been able to separate that and I'm really
grateful for that, because I do know boxing has a
shelf life and there's a funny story in the boxing world,

(08:33):
and it's probably all industries, but there's always those fifty
year old blocks in the path who're having a few beers. Yeah.
Back in my day, I was like, go on gloves champing.
It's like they're still living on that moment forty years before,
and I don't want to be that. Like, this is
definitely the highlight of my life so far. It's taken
me all around the world and I've loved it, but
it's like, this won't be the highlight of my life.
I want kids, I want to do more, I want

(08:53):
experience other things like and I'm very much not attached
to that identity anymore. So that's why I think that
it hasn't rocked me as hard as what I thought
it would.

Speaker 2 (09:02):
What do you think you learn from those moments, like
that moment of striving so hard for something and realizing
that there are things you can control and things you can't.
What do you think you learn from feeling like you failed.

Speaker 1 (09:19):
The universe stops for no one? Yeah, self, feeling sorry
for yourself?

Speaker 3 (09:22):
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 1 (09:23):
I mentioned this in the book The Good Fight that
just come out a little plug. But like I actually
mentioned this in the book, and I was saying, like
I think this world kind of fosters victim mentality. I
don't know, it's like, of course the world sucks and
it's unfair and unjust. You don't have to look too
far to see those things, like in our society and
then also internationally overseas we're seeing it on our phone.

(09:45):
But like self feeling sorry for yourself, it's like no
one's coming and it's up to you always, and don't
be wrong. Absolutely feel your emotions and be in pain,
don't suppress them. But like I get up, like let's
go on, Like it's up to you always, and of
course don't be wrong. I've also got a beautiful support network,
but it is always up to us, and we can
sit there and complain and feel bad for ourselves. We're

(10:05):
living in one of the greatest countries on earth with
so much opportunity. Like I always think that, like the
world stops from no one keep going.

Speaker 2 (10:13):
In the book, you write about doing a breath work
session and you say you had a moment of realization
and it was this I've spent far too long searching
for happiness and external sources people, success, money, girlfriends, sex, addiction, whatever.
I think everything I need is already within me. No,

(10:33):
I know that's the case. Off the back of the
paras Olympics. How easy or hard is it to remember
that that happiness is always within you and it's not
about the external stuff.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
It's interesting because I feel like I'm getting a massive
hug from all of Australia right now, which is quite nice.
So it actually I am getting external something. Yeah, So
I don't know if I can answer that question truthfully
because it's like I'm feeling like I'm getting it's in
a sense, which is a weird thing. So I also
know that it is. I'd say it's fake because I

(11:06):
feel the love, I feel that people care, and I
feel that there's a lot of people there. But it's
like nothing outside yourself can ever change how you feel
about yourself. And I have realized that. I think I
realized that after Tokyo. So I sat with the bronze medal,
which was a success. We don't do that very often
in Australia, and I sat there in quarantine and had
the medal on my neck, and I was looking at
myself in the mirror, and I felt so unhappy. Really now,

(11:28):
I'm like, if that's not a sign that this isn't right?
And what do we do? Our society is just this
capitalist driven society where like you're fed your insecurities, You've
fed these things. It's achievement based. We show all these
gold medalists on the TV, and we show all these things.
We prop these CEOs and these people who are probably
just they might be successful in one thing, but like
they don't have a happy life outside of that. Like,

(11:49):
I find it weird that we don't prop up like
people who work in the cancer ward almost twenty four
to seven, or like these people work in child hospitals
or like look after the animals. Like our society is
toxic and we just keep going and we don't care
about it. It's a really interesting thing. I know, I'm
getting really passionate right now. And I play into that too,
because like I'm an athlete, Like my life's not hard,

(12:10):
not really doing too much for society, Like I'm not
really spending my time dedicated to helping others, but like
I get all these opportunities right. It's a weird thing.
It's a really interesting thing to sort of grapple with.

Speaker 2 (12:20):
When you got that medal from the Tokyo Olympics and
you were feeling miserable, what was it? Was it stuff
independent of the medal? Was it stuff just in your life?

Speaker 1 (12:32):
I felt like I wasn't worthy of love. I felt
like I was nothing like I felt really miserable. And
I think, whatever the belief is, whether it's true or not,
it's like you will collect the evidence that it is true.
That's how we work, That's how we're hardwire. So it's like,
I think for most of my life, I just kept
collecting the evidence that I wasn't good enough, that I
needed to achieve something so then I would be good enough.
And then you achieved something like I got the Comwalth

(12:55):
Games gold medal or my home soil my first major
support event, and I woke up in the morning I
was like, nothing's changed, Like I'm still the same person
and I still hold these core beliefs, but I don't
feel like I'm worthy or good enough. And it's a
really interesting thing because I do also like sit this
coexist belief is like it is also the twenty year
career of striving for greatness that has made me change

(13:16):
my belief about myself or made me realize that I
am more, I am capable. So it's like I don't
want to say to young people that, like, hey, striving
for things is a bad thing, but it's like just
realizing that, like set big, audacious goals, but just realize
that achieving that goal won't change who you are as
a person.

Speaker 2 (13:31):
It's almost like the striving, striving is.

Speaker 3 (13:35):
What makes you who you are.

Speaker 2 (13:37):
But do you think sometimes achievement and as somebody who
has medals and has been winning things from a young age,
do you think sometimes achievement can like plug the self
esteem holes artificially like that you it's like you get
a medal instead of looking internally for things to feel
proud of.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
Yeah, and it kind of like you get like a
slap on the bump from all of society. People start
celebrating you go, oh you are so amazing, How good
is this? And then you you feel good. It's like
instant gratification. You feel good. It's like eating the sweet
food or like I don't having a beer. It's like
those instant gratification things like short lives. It's like really
short lived and then you go back to home and

(14:17):
you're like, Wow, I'm lonely and I don't like my
own company, Like it's a strange reality that we can't
And I think there's this is a common experience for
many people in our society. I think I've just tried
my best. I don't think it's like a linear thing.
I don't think you just arrive at a destination and go, oh,
I'm happy. I'm contenting myself. It's like, I just want
to have more days like that more often than not.

(14:37):
But I find that by me collecting the evidence that
I am a good person, that I am worthy, it's
like that has changed a little belief about myself. And
nine times out of ten my days are like that now,
where I'm like, I think that I'm worthy, I think
that I'm capable, I think that I'm deserving. But it's
because I'm doing those things and I'm collecting the evidence
that I am those things.

Speaker 2 (14:55):
Yeah, from what you're saying, it almost feels like that
moment in Paris where you don't get what it is
that you want. Sometimes that's like a more meaningful life
moment because it actually clarifies that the reason you were
doing all of this was not for the metal, but
for what it would teach you along the way. Like,

(15:18):
I think it probably as much as I'm sure it
is heartbreaking, And me sitting here not having trained in
the Olympics for two decades, I'm like, it's fine, but
I kind of think there's got to be some profound
meaning in that moment.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
Yeah, have you ever read The Alchemist?

Speaker 3 (15:35):
No, but I should smart people.

Speaker 1 (15:39):
It's a really easy read. I'm not a smart person,
but it's one hundred and seventy pages and it's so easy.
But it's very much the story of that he goes
on a search for treasure and then he kind of
gets the treasure. He realized that. He's like, oh, this
wasn't what I was searching for. It's a weird thing, right,
Like even if I was to win that gold medal,
and then I ride this wave and it kind of
plugs a hole, and then like he is something like, wow,
I'm like depressed, Like what you know? I mean, like,

(16:00):
at least now I'm like, hey, my worth isn't attached
to that gold medal, Like I know that who I
am as a person, of course is heartbreaking. Of course
I spent two decades trying to chase that. It's like,
I know that if my friend called me, or my
brother called me, or if I saw someone on the
street struggling, I would be there to help. And that
is where I get myself worth.

Speaker 2 (16:21):
And I think that's really important for people to be
aware of. And and I love what you say about
being an athlete or being in the public eye. You're
not the person working in a council ward or working
with sick children, because I think sometimes your ego can
trick you into thinking that you are actually the most

(16:42):
important thing in the world and you're better than everyone else.

Speaker 3 (16:44):
And it would be easy to think.

Speaker 1 (16:45):
That social media, Yeah, yeah, yeah, and.

Speaker 2 (16:47):
People are just like, oh my gosh, you're amazing. You
must get messages every day from people just in awe
of you. And I think it's really important to remember
what it is, yeah, that you do, and also be
in awe of other people and what they do day
to day.

Speaker 1 (17:01):
Yeah, there's a saying it's like, be more interested, not interesting.
Was Matthew mcconnae.

Speaker 3 (17:09):
He's actually very I know.

Speaker 1 (17:10):
I'm super wise, and I really like his story. I'm
pretty sure it's the youngest of three boys too. So yeah,
I love his story. But it's so true, like I
actually got someone to take over my social media like
a couple of years ago now, because it's like it
was nineteen to nine percent positive like this, there is
some negative, and you probably remember the negative because that's
say hard why, But like, so you read nine numbercent
positive comments about yourself, hundreds and hundreds and hundreds, it's

(17:31):
like you start thinking you're a legend. Yeah, I'm like,
I'm not, like, I'm not like I know, I'm not
a bad person, but it's like I'm super flawed and
like I and I don't always live up to the
person I want to be. I try my best, and
I think that's like most people, right, But it's like
you start reading that, you're like, yeah, I'm real good.
Let's say so good.

Speaker 2 (17:46):
It's I often talk on this show about the idea
that the expectation of happiness can be a bit of
a trap, and there are moments in life where the
world tells us we'll be happy when we get the
thing we've been striving for, or how lives look particularly
shiny and perfect from the outside, but beneath the surface,

(18:08):
we are just not happy. Is there a time in
your life that you think of where the world told
you you'd be happy and you weren't.

Speaker 1 (18:15):
Or that if and when mindset. Yeah, it's a weird trap. Yeah,
probably after most achievements, right, yeah, yeah, definitely after a
lot of the times where I achieved something and as
I said, like it was like a plug something for
a period of time, but it's like it's not long
and then you're like, I've got to get the next thing.
It's like it's a genuine addiction, like like an addictions
running my family. I've been addicted to negative things in

(18:37):
my life. I've been addicted to positive things in my life,
but they all cause very similar things. And it's like
low self worth and then it's like unique that next
feeling to feel something to feel in your body or
else you're just like life is boring. I find that
because I've lived the highest of highs and I've been
the lowest of lows, and wow, I feel alive in both. Yeah,
but in the middle you're like, oh this is so yeah,

(18:58):
it feels like that sometimes. So I don't know. I
want to try and get control of that before I
have kids, because I don't want to pass on to kids,
but it's a hard reality to live in of Like
when I'm operating at this like halfway, I'm like, man,
this is boring.

Speaker 3 (19:12):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
And I think also when you're used to those extremes
like which I can imagine when you go into the
ring for boxing, you have so much adrenaline, you have
like you're just so present and so aware. I can't
imagine there are many other times in day to day
life when you feel like that. Is there a comdown

(19:36):
after a.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
Fight, absolutely, yeah, massive come down, even after an event
like the Olympics. But I think like you even't thinking
about like the smaller scale. So you go to like
a music festival, like or you go to a concert,
like it's like amazing, this endorphin release, you're connected to humans,
you're singing your favorite band. But then you go home
you're like, like you're little bit unhappy the next day.
But it's like it's because you've like exhausted yourself a

(19:58):
little bit, and it's just that's the reality of things.
But and I guess the higher you go, the lower
you go on the other end as well. But I've
learned to manage that quite well. And I'm pretty proud
of myself this time, like five years ago, I ailed
at a number of things, and like the different decisions
I was making compared to now, it's like chalk and cheese.
So I'm pretty proud of myself for that.

Speaker 2 (20:17):
What kind of things did you used to do when
you failed?

Speaker 3 (20:22):
Where did you go? And what were the unhealthy behaviors
that you leaned into?

Speaker 1 (20:26):
Be more like substance abuse and stuff like that. Yeah,
it'd be trying to like numb the person I saw
in the mirror. Yeah, Yeah, it was just like I
was super ashamed of myself, and it would be like
more of a punishment, Yeah, punishment, but it would be
kind of hidden away with like laughter and joking with
people that you're with. But it was like even because
you're like shivered singing about like it was hard to

(20:47):
be in that like just knowing that I wasn't there
for fun. I was there to like actually just like
no numb my feelings. Like I don't know, and I
just I feel like I've spoken to a number of
people in my life and I feel like we often
do this as humans, Like we feel the heaviest of
emotions and we run away and distract, and I'm guilty
of this too. I'm doing it right now with this
book tour, like I'm not really feeling what i need

(21:09):
to feel, and I am conscious that I'm trying to
create this space when I have some time. So but
it's one of the things we do. It's like, as
you said, though you like run away, distract, try and
you may not feel it, and then it's like, in
the process of that, you kind of pick up a
few tools and you get through it in a weird way.
It's like out of the universe is always working for us.
I believe, not against this, but yeah, it's a strange reality.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
After the break, Harry talks about how his life has
changed since gaining a public profile and whether he thinks
money actually does by happiness. You talked about during your
childhood you didn't necessarily have a lot of money, and

(21:53):
now I would imagine you're in a very financially different
position where not only I assume you've made good money
from boxing and media and that sort of thing, but
there are lots of opportunities for you to make money.
Do you think money buys happiness.

Speaker 1 (22:11):
The buye's freedom. Yeah, I don't think it buys happiness.
I think you can chase something your whole life, and
if you don't like the person you see in the mirror,
it's like that's not happy. But I think money does
buy time and freedom. And I know, coming from no money,
like I want to make sure when I have kids,
like I didn't go to private school, and or make
sure I try and send them to the best school possible,
Like I want to give them the best opportunity I can, right,

(22:33):
I want to strive for things financially for them and
for myself as well, like I want to change the
stars for my family and my future family. But I
don't think money buys happiness. Like find your passions, find
your interest, and it's like when you're feeling secure financially,
it's like, make sure you create time and space to
do those things. It's like I actually read this threat.
I think it was on Instagram, and it was around
like investing in love. Like love is the most beautiful emotion,

(22:57):
right we all love being in love or loving our
favorite sport team or like our favorite thing. Love is
so pure, And it was like invest in love, invest
in those cute little romantic dates, invest in those like
the journals so you can write each other love notes
and invest in those things that like you care about me.
I think so often as humans we're just like we

(23:17):
push those things to the side because they're always here
our partner or our family. We push them to the side,
but like, dedicate some time to those people. Like I
don't know, we spend more time working rather than like
investing in love. But I get it, you might need
to strive that. I'd rather spend all my money and
like I don't be in love and just pure.

Speaker 2 (23:36):
I think the problem is that when you're struggling financially,
all your energy goes to that and you don't have
time to think about investing in love, or investing in peace,
or investing in yourself because every moment is stressing about money.
That's what it feels like with money. Like what's your

(23:57):
relationship with money? Do you use it to help your family?
Do you use it to invest in incredible experiences?

Speaker 3 (24:06):
Like where do you go with it?

Speaker 1 (24:08):
It's there a combination of everything. Yeah, this is one
of the qualities I really like about myself. I'm super
generous for my money, almost to a fault sometimes, But
I've always been very much like that, like I'm always
the person who say you're at a friend dinner or
something like that. It's like, I get up, I've gone
on the toll and I'll pay for dinner.

Speaker 2 (24:23):
Right.

Speaker 1 (24:24):
It's just like my dad very much was like that.
And I'm in a position now where it's like, yes,
I don't have a house, like I don't have heaps
of money, Like yeah, that's the thing, A generation won't
buy a house, but like, I don't have heaps of security.
But compared to where I was, like I literally didn't
make the Rio Olympics in twenty sixteen. I was fresh
eighteen and I was in fifteen thousand dollars debt trying

(24:47):
to make the team. I didn't even make it, right,
And it's like I spent the next two or three
years paying off that debt as a tradesman. And then
now I'm in a position now where it's like I
can look back at that and go, I'm so different now,
And yes, of course I'm not well off on the
standard of Australia. I'm in a position now I don't
have responsibilities, I don't have kids. So if I can
help a friend out, if I can help a brother out,
if I can help a family out, then I will

(25:08):
one hundred percent trum my best to do its.

Speaker 2 (25:10):
In twenty twenty three, you went into the jungle for
I'm a Celebrity and you finished second and you were
just adored by viewers, and there was a little period
of time when you'd finish filming and when you got
on the plane to go home, that sounded really magical
and you got to spend time with your dad. Can

(25:31):
you tell me about what that experience.

Speaker 1 (25:33):
Was like talking about money, Like I upgraded my dad
to business class, which is awesome. So like me and
my dad like growing up, like would never have a
dream of going to business class.

Speaker 2 (25:43):
I've never flown business class. And your description of business class,
I'm like, oh, I just.

Speaker 1 (25:47):
Wanted so so wild, Like I'm just doing that with
my dad, Like, especially after such an amazing experience like
I'm a celebrity. Yeah, me and my dad, it must
have been. We're both quite pissed by the time the
time we took off, Like it was such an amazing
experience and just to sort of share that with my dad,
like so unbelievably grateful.

Speaker 2 (26:05):
I don't know why it's particularly with our dads but
sometimes we feel like you're trying to be all flashy
and achieve things so that your dad will be proud
of you. You're doing like a dance, You're like, hey Dad,
hey dad, look at what I'm doing. And with that,
it's like you had been on TV Australia had loved you,
and then you had some time in like fancy accommodation

(26:26):
where you got to.

Speaker 3 (26:27):
See animals and all that, did you feel like your
dad was really really proud of you.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
I know both my parents are extremely proud of me.
I don't think you realize this when you're younger, but
I I went to my dad a few times in
my life and some quite recently too, Like I would say,
this is like my goal, this is my dream, what
I want to do, and he would shout me down
straight away. And I didn't realize this as a kid,
and you would take that personally think oh what, like
he doesn't believe in me or like whatever, and you

(26:52):
just take this creates your story. But what I've realized
it's like it's his projection of him not believing that
he's capable of doing that, which is heartbreaking. Right, Like
my dad's one of the smartest men. I know, Like
he does those quiz you know, those game shows, He's
getting every question right. I'm like, that's why are you trained?
But obviously you're the smartest, like go on who wants
to win it. I know it's sad because it comes

(27:15):
from his I'm assuming I have no idea. I think
it comes from his projection of he doesn't potentially believe
that if his wild reshimes, he could do it. So
but I'm like, surely, after twenty seven years of life,
I've proven to you by now that like if I
said I'm going to do something, I'm going to try
my absolute hardest to do it. I might not achieve it,
but I'll be bloody trying.

Speaker 2 (27:34):
Yeah. And so it sounds like you were in this
beautiful moment of doing things that you never thought you'd
be able to do with your dad, and having come
off the back of this show, then you landed in
Australia and you pretty much entered a nightmare. Can you
tell me about the moment that you were arrested?

Speaker 1 (27:55):
Yeah, it was. To be honest, I haven't ran away
from that. More than anything. I don't know if you'll
ever get fully get through something like that it's like
a weird sort of I wouldn't say PTSD. Maybe it is,
it might have formed of PTSD, but yeah, I just
walked into something that I had absolutely no idea was
going to occur. So just like that period of my
life was like extremely low, like a bit of a blur,

(28:16):
but it's so powerful, like what goes on in that
I actually felt like that was like one of the
best things to ever happen to me. Like I feel
like that was actually the turning point in my life
where I built a better relationship with myself. I had
my own back in that moment, I showed up for myself.
I didn't turn to anything negative. I didn't drink for
like six months. I like was just doing what I

(28:36):
needed to do to get through that moment, and I'm
really grateful for that. I actually did a breathwork experience
probably three months post and I was still very much
in it, and I had this beautiful experience where I
was like bird's eye view of myself. And this has
never happened to me. People talk about it in their
breath of extimes. My shut up, that doesn't happen. It
happened to me, and I was like hugging a young kid,

(28:57):
and I'm just assuming it was my younger self. I'm
what a full circle moment. That young kid was like
so sad, right, But I, as a twenty six year
old man at the time, I had his own bag.
I had his back, And I'm really grateful that that
moment happened because I think I wouldn't be able to
handle the Paris loss the way I am now if
it wasn't for that moment, right, that was life shattering.

Speaker 2 (29:19):
That moment of being arrested. From reading your book, I
didn't even think how many opportunities you would have lost
in that moment, where people would have just pulled contracts,
pulled things. And the other thing you write about is
how it impacted relationships. So what happened in terms of like,

(29:42):
were there people who let you down in that moment
where you really needed support.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
I wouldn't say let me down. I would definitely more
so say they showed their true colors. But there was
many people who like led a hand, like gave me
a hand up. And I'm really grateful for those people.
And I'll speak so highly of Sue Christanthe and Rebecca
Giles and Hamish McLaughlin and the girls that Swiss multivitamins
like my management. I mean, like people stepped up, Like

(30:09):
when I was lost, right, and there was a lot
of people who did it. It was a pretty hectic experience.
And I get it. The world we live in, it's
like this cancel culture. But how I've always is like
Peter Bowl, prime example. We went through Peter Bowl, the
ade of Ameter Runner, who went through that drug doping
situation where he was falsely accused of drug doping, but
he was like accused for a long period of time, right,
And I messaged him because Peter Bowl has always been

(30:33):
a bloody legend to me always. I do not agree
with drug cheating. I'm like so against it, like morally
it's not okay. But he has treated me with respect
and dignity. And when he was going through that, I
messaged him saying, mate, I'm always here for you, call
if you need anything, because he has been good to me, right,
And I try and base people on that. It's like
whatever comes out about them, I have no idea. I

(30:53):
don't know what's right. Obviously got proven to be false,
you mean, but it's like they treat you with respect
it's like we should be judging people on that, not
this public stuff, because this cancel culture is just like toxic,
it's like gossip, Like it's so just like, oh, trashy.

Speaker 2 (31:07):
It's interesting that when a story like that comes out,
and for you, it was being accused of domestic violence,
which for a man in the public.

Speaker 3 (31:15):
Eye is the worst thing that you can be accused of.

Speaker 2 (31:19):
And I can imagine for someone like you, who is
incredibly respectful and incredibly you've always been very open about
embracing femininity and just not being that kind of man,
I can imagine that was a really frustrating, hurtful experience

(31:41):
in that moment. Did people come to you and ask
if you did it? And how did that feel?

Speaker 1 (31:47):
To be honest, Like, I don't know, I kind of
would have respected someone if they did. Yeah, yeah, because absolutely,
like you should ask that question. I think if I
remember correctly, like it was kind of a blow that period,
But I don't think it happened that often, Like I
can't remember any specific moments. But it's like, I don't
know many people like want to front up and have
that uncomfortable conversation, like and I would kind of respect
it if they did. Absolutely. If someone come to come

(32:10):
the pub and said you can write comments online, like yeah,
you're real tough doing that. It's like if someone comment
through the publem was like hey, like push me or
something like that, It's like I would kind of respect that, right,
It's like yeah, because those charges are so hectic, so hectic,
but it didn't happen. No.

Speaker 2 (32:25):
No, in terms of the people who you say kind
of showed their true colors and maybe didn't reach out
or it's weird. When you're a public figure, it's almost
like there are two versions of you. There's like the human,
actual version of you that people know and get to
be with, and then there's the version of you that's

(32:46):
in the daily mail and in the newspaper. And clearly
they get conflated sometimes, and for some people it probably
was that they just went, oh, he did this, and
then their minds turned off once the charges were withdrawn
and it was incredibly clear that this never happened. Did

(33:09):
people come out of the woodwork, Did people kind of
come to you like people who had disappeared when the
charges came out?

Speaker 1 (33:15):
Yeah, definitely, definitely a couple. It's part of the world
we live in, right, now, But and I also know,
like for myself, I stop being so self centered and narcissistic,
Like people have their own problems in life, Like I
don't know people's situations, so I can sit here at
absolutely critique. And there was some really hurtful ones, right
that turned their back of me when I thought that
we were like good mates. But it's also like I
don't know their reality, right, I don't know what they

(33:37):
were going through. I don't know what they could have
been an experience with something in that, so I try
my best not to sit in that like resentful spitefulness,
Like I know, I just find that quite ugly for myself.
But of course, like I don't know if you can
ever fully be like oh yeah, no, worries may whatever,
like it's like you remember, like it's like forgive but
never forget type situations. So I the whole situation, like
my circle got way smaller, and I'm really grateful for that.

(33:59):
Like I spent my whole childhood sort of searching for
like heaps of friends, but it's like my quality of
friends right now is so strong, and I'm really grateful
for that. And the circle is very small in the
Sanctum is very small, and I'm extremely grateful for that.

Speaker 2 (34:15):
When you got famous, did you find that that there
were people who tried to latch onto you? Like with fame,
does it change the nature of your relationships?

Speaker 1 (34:25):
Oh, that's why I probably realized that the most in dating. Yeah, yeah,
because it's like it's my own inner belief. It's like
they like the they love or like the idea of me,
not actually me. And I understand that's my own story
of like that inferiority complex whatever, but it's like I
very much do feel that. So it's like it takes
a decent amount of time for me to break free
of that. And I always try and listen to my

(34:48):
guard my intuition, Like you can kind of tell someone's
intentions pretty quick most of the time if you're paying attention.
So in saying that, I've been very wrong a number
of times too, So it's just part of it, part
of the nature. Like I always try my best to
be as genuine as I can, and you can kind
of read like sometimes you can't help if you don't
like someone, like you just don't get around them. But
there's so many good people in this world, and I've

(35:08):
met so many people since I got like a little
bit of public knowledge. So and I'm really grateful for
those people.

Speaker 2 (35:14):
Now looking back at the allegations and the arrest.

Speaker 1 (35:17):
Are you angry, Nah, it was the best thing that
happened to me. So you learn the most. Of course,
I don't like saying this, because you learn something from
every situation. You learn something when you win, you learn
something when you succeed, But it is true we learn
way more when we don't succeed or when life really
knocks us down. And for me, that was like soul shattering.
And I'm yeah, I'm not angry. I'm not resentful what

(35:39):
I've moved on, and I know, I feel like I'm
just focusing on my goals my ambitions now and I've
got a new partner and I'm really happy in that,
and like, I think that's the most important thing. I
never wanted that situation to take away from my ability
to love, because love is the most pure and genuine thing.
And I love when I share my life with someone
and you want to tell them about your best moments
and your worst moments, and you want to hear theirs like, oh,

(36:02):
that's what we live for. We are social animals. And
I'm really grateful for that, so I'm not angry at all.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
More of my conversation Harry Garside after this short break.
You have a line in your book that really stuck
with me, and it's anger is just sadness suppressed. And
I thought it was really profound, particularly when it comes

(36:30):
to men and mental health. When you look at the
men around you who fit that stereotype of being angry,
and I think we all know men like that. Do
you think deep down they're sad? And what do you
think is making men sad?

Speaker 1 (36:46):
So I've thought about this so much, and I obviously
can only speak for the males in my environment, but
I think I've met a number of men, especially being
in a sport like boxing, and I think the biggest
thing I reckon men search for is acknowledgment and respect.
I don't know what your relationship's like with your dad
or if you have a partner, I'm not too sure,

(37:08):
but it's like, if you really pay attention to them.
All the men in my life they do this weird
acts of service when no one's looking like my dad,
I'll go down to Melbourne and the car will be
clean and it'll be full of fuel right, doesn't say
a thing, doesn't do anything, and it's acts of service.
I think the biggest thing they're searching for is acknowledgment.
And so often we just like overlook men. Right. It's

(37:29):
like when the boat's thinking, who do we take care of?
Which we should is kids and women, right, And it's
male's duty. That's like a man's role. And I love that.
But I think in a society we live in now,
it's like, I think men just are searching for a
little bit of respect and acknowledgment. And in that it's
like I think a lot of their sadness may dissipate
a little bit potentially. I'm not sure. I'm not like
a psychologist. I don't have the rules of the universe,

(37:52):
but like, I think it would really help.

Speaker 2 (37:54):
Yeah, I think there's something about feeling a bit invisible.
And my husband and I have a little eight month
old daughter, and so it's always about like I'm doing
this and you're doing this. And I've realized that he
does a whole lot of things that I don't see
and it's really easy for me to say, but I'm
feeding the baby and I'm getting up at night and

(38:15):
that sort of thing, and he will have a huge
list of exactly what you say, acts of service that
I don't acknowledge. And I think it is that thing
of wanting to be seen and acknowledged and respected. My
dad is exactly the same. You say you hate the
term toxic masculinity.

Speaker 3 (38:33):
Why is that?

Speaker 1 (38:34):
I think when it started it was quite pure, But
I just think it's been used in a really bad way.
And I think any platform, any podcasts, any place in
society that is putting men against women is toxic in itself.
Like we need each other, like that's how we were animals, right,
Like we need each other just as much as it's like,
and I think absolutely there is things that we need

(38:55):
to reflect on about the male culture. It is negative
for sure. And I noticed this, Like when I'm in
in a male environment where I say, there's a group
of ten boys, I noticed that I start acting a
little bit different and the jokes are a little bit different, right,
And it's like, I do notice that. That's so, I mean,
do we need to reflect on Like we don't talk
about deep stuff. We're always taking the piss out of
each other, Like, but there is also so many beautiful

(39:16):
things about masculinity. I'm sure you've saw that with your
dad and your partner and other male figures in your life.
And I just think that any platform in our society
that is putting men against women or vice versa is
toxic in itself, and I think we need to work
together to get to a better position.

Speaker 2 (39:32):
You also talk a lot about men and mental health.
What do you think is the difference, for example, when
you have struggled with your mental health. We know that
suicide rates, for example, are really high among men. What
do you think it is that makes mental health issues

(39:53):
among men particularly scary and severe.

Speaker 1 (40:00):
I personally think like men want to feel capable and
like they have a job. It's like I have beans
for many men in my life and like say call
my day's Yeah, what are you doing this week? I'm like, yeah,
I'm just trying to look for a car. It's like
here will go that night and like find eight cars
in my local area.

Speaker 2 (40:17):
You know.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
I mean, he's just like that type of person. It's
just like they want to feel capable, they want to
feel needed, right, And I think that is actually biologically
in most masculine people, whether it be male or female.
But it's like they want to feel capable, they want
to feel needed, And I think in a society, it's
like the generations before us right have just kind of
created a world that's like almost in Western world, it's

(40:38):
like almost perfect. It's like, yes, there is so many
things that we can evolve and get better at. But
it's like if you're born in Australia in the top
three percent of the wealth in the world, it's like
we're not really struggling. Like I've lived overseas, I've lived
in poverty stricken countries and I've seen that there it's
like real struggle. But I think the world we live
in right now is just like it's almost really good.

(40:59):
The fact that we don't need that masculine energy, whether
it be man or woman as much anymore, Like we
don't have fires, we don't have as much war or anger.
I don't know, it's a weird thing. I just think
in that a lot of men are feeling loss, and
it is up to I want to say this, it
is up to men as well to make sure they
recognize this and go, Okay, I need to go to

(41:20):
the gym more often. I need to find something where
I feel strong and capable. I want to start at
Brazil and jiu jitsu. I want to do something where
I feel strong, I feel capable, and it feeds that
thing inside of us, right, and then in that maybe
they feel more secure. But at the moment, it's just
like they're probably sitting behind a TV and just like
watching like terrible like and they're feeling like unheard and
listen to it. It's like what are they actually doing

(41:41):
to help themselves too? It's like a both society needs
to help them and they need to help themselves.

Speaker 2 (41:45):
Yeah, you have a bit of an interesting kind of
approach to that, where you have little challenges you do
every month. I find this so inspiring and I really
really want to do it. Can you explain what those
challenges are and a few examples of once you've done.

Speaker 1 (42:05):
Yeah, So I originally started for an Olympic gold medal
this start of twenty nineteen. So this month, which I'm
currently doing right now, is the sixty eighth month in
a row. I've done stuff like fifty hours no talking,
public reading. I've begged for money, I've washed windows at
lights if that's a really hard conversation, started ballet karaoke.

(42:25):
Some are fun. Some are good. Improv class was a
lot of fun. Yeah, some of fun, some are good.
The one I'm doing this month is I'm living under
the poverty line, so I'm living off for two hundred
and fifty bucks for the week after rent and bills
and stuff like that. So four hundred and eighty nine
dollars in Australia is under the poverty line and I
am living at two fifty after rent and bills, and

(42:46):
it's thirty five dollars a day. So it's day two
and it's been really interesting. Like yesterday I walked through
Coals trying to find some dinner and it was like,
oh my god, Coals and Woolworths are absolutely ruining the
hip hocket of our population, like it is wild. I
couldn't get anything for like a decent amount, like so
remember that five dollar meal? Remember that was it? That

(43:08):
was it ten dollar meal or something like that? Feet family
for ten dollars. Something that calls out is that you
couldn't do that anymore. No, I could not do that.

Speaker 2 (43:14):
And sometimes when you're not conscious of it, it's almost invisible,
like I'll just go to the tooth market and pick
up what I need. Then when I scared everything, I'm like,
oh Jesus Christ, I have no money and this is why.
But when you're being fully intentional and looking at how
do I have an affordable meal, it is terrifying. You
talk about embracing your feminine energy and you paint your nails,

(43:39):
and that's become like a bit of an iconic thing.
What did it mean to you the first time you
painted your nails? Because there's a bit of a story
around it.

Speaker 1 (43:49):
Yeah. So this youth organization, the Reach Foundation, they come
to my school when I was sixteen and I was
in this stage of like, I was having no success
at boxing, and I was like, do I just start
partying like all my mates and go down that path
and leave school and become a trade And I only
really stayed at school for boxing because it's really easy
for your body. And they come to my school and

(44:10):
I was having this like identity crisis and through the
day it was actually all about challenging masculinity. Is probably
the reason why was so like strong about it because
of that day, right, And they gave me a space
where I could delve into myself and actually see what
I find because I felt like I played a role
my whole life, and I was feeling misunderstood, but I
didn't know who I was. So it's like, how can
you show who you are if you don't know who

(44:32):
you are?

Speaker 2 (44:32):
Right?

Speaker 1 (44:32):
And I just went on this like and I'm still
on it. I love it, Like iing on this like
wild journey of actually trying to find out who I am. Right.
I don't know if you ever fully find the answer,
but I'm getting closer and closer each day. And in
that day, it was obviously a very masculine environment. It
was just males, and they spoke about men are always
the ones like you see at parties jumping off the
roof onto tables or fighting or like drinking the most.

(44:55):
It's like it's like this competitive, highly competitive nature environment
and it's just like often in that we do a
lot of negative things. And I think that day was
just all about challenging it. And one of the things
was paint your nails. All the boys like, oh you
imagine what six year boys are saying. And when you're
painted your nails and you went out for lunch and
then you come back, you realize that the world didn't
finish and nothing change, right, nothing changed it's just this

(45:19):
like belief that we choose to believe about well, how
we have to act. And I'm really grateful for that day.
And then I become a crew member and I guess
the rest is history. And that really helps me out
about building my emotional intelligence, which I'm so grateful.

Speaker 2 (45:30):
When you talk about having feminine energy, what does that
look like to you?

Speaker 1 (45:35):
Feminine energy for me is the place that I go
where I need to take care of myself. It's probably
the place that I'm distracting myself from the most right now.
It's in flow, it's care, it's just being in rhythm
with yourself, being in sync. And I love that. I
think pure feminine energy is like organic when I dance,
I feel like that when I move my body, I'm
in flow, I'm in rhythm. It's really nice. But it's

(45:57):
also the space where I go and I need to
let go. I think the masculine energy for history has
been like you'd be strong, and like if you're in war,
you don't talk about gees on my leg swords, like
you keep going, you keep fighting. We need that we're ers,
and I think we all have masculine and feminine inside
of us. It's just up to us to ask ourself
the question to see what energy we need most right now,

(46:18):
and that will vary through our time.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
Yeah, I think that idea of feminine energy is really
you don't hear a lot of men acknowledging it, even
though every man I know has clear different parts to
them and even do things that YE are clearly leading
into their feminine energy.

Speaker 1 (46:36):
Have you experienced this before? So I spoke to a
lot of women in my life and they've said that
like when they date a man, like the man would
love like words of affirmation. It's just like men never
it's like the acknowledgment right never. Really like men love
when their partners saying all these nice things about what
you say. It's like they want to hear it, right,
And it's just like it's like a really interesting thing.
And I think more men need to sort of just

(46:56):
as create space and ask yourself the question. I'm not
saying that you need to paint your nails or like
start dance or like wear a dress, like, just ask
yourself what you need and it will vary throughout time,
and create that space and try and give it to yourself.
Like I think we need to take care of ourselves
rather than focusing other things to take care of us.

Speaker 2 (47:13):
Yeah, what currently day to day keeps you from happiness?
Like what would you say is your biggest challenge to
happiness At the moment, I.

Speaker 1 (47:23):
Think happiness is like a fleeting thing. It's like a
weird myth that the Western civilization tells us, like we
will be happy. Then it's like this, when I do this,
then I will be happy. It's like that if and
when mindset. But it's like some days are on I'm
sure hormones for females play a massive role. Like I
have been around many women in my life and you're like, oh, okay,
it's coming. She hates me, hates me right now, But

(47:48):
it's like it's just noticing, like some days are good,
some days are bad. But I try my best to
have more like consistent and happy life. And probably the
thing that is shopping me from that is like it's
like myself sometimes like how often do you like sacrifice
like going to the gym, or sacrifice like seeing your friends,
or sacrifice something for work, or like just really your

(48:08):
prioritization list for me is the thing that will take
away from my happiness at times yeah, yeah, So I
think it's just like it's like knowing what really lights
you up. It's like does work really light you up?
It's like, yeah, you probably need a work to put
from the table, but it's like do you need to
stay back here until seven thirty at night? Like, yeah,
do you need to take that book home? Like do
you really need to? Of course, we all need to

(48:29):
progress in our career, but I don't know. I think
that's probably the thing, is like the prioritization of other
things rather than the things I really enjoy.

Speaker 2 (48:36):
And right now post Paris, post some really difficult times.
But you know, also in the midst of having your
book out and feeling like you have a lot to offer,
would you say that right now you are happy?

Speaker 1 (48:56):
As I said, it's very fleeting. It's very fleeting. I
feel like there's days where I wake up and I
feel playful at the moment. I don't know. Do you
ever see Kathy Freeman when she won that four unameter race,
It was like relief? Yeah, right, it was relief. Like
I love competing, I love fighting, I love like that
primal energy that it brings out. I love chipping away
at a goal for a year for twenty years, and

(49:16):
I love that. It's great. But I also like there
was moments in my preparation I was like, oh, I
can't wait for this to be over. Yeah, when I
was tired, I was really tired. I think in that
I'm just like, oh, like my shoulders are down right now.
So yeah, it's I feel in that. It's like I
feel playful in that I'm eating bad food. I'm also
having a few drinks when I've never using a drinks.
It's like my body is not feeling amazing, but my

(49:38):
mind is quite strong right now.

Speaker 2 (49:39):
Yeah, playful is an interesting word. I know exactly what
you mean, and it is those moments in life where
maybe you have been working really bloody hard on something
and it's happened and there's no more you can do,
and so you get to kind of just be in
the moment and choose like hedonism and joy rather than
putting all of.

Speaker 3 (49:59):
That aside for the big goal.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
Thank you so much for your time today. It has
been such a wonderful chat, and I think people will
love what you've offered about failure and success and how
it doesn't necessarily have any bearing on happiness.

Speaker 3 (50:17):
So I really appreciate your honesty.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
Oh, thank you, It's been absolute pleasure to talk to you.

Speaker 2 (50:24):
I hope you took something from Harry about the significance
and the utility of failure. Sitting with him, I was
struck by the fact that while so many of us
chase external achievement, it isn't medals or awards or any
kind of metrics that I loved ones will remember us for,
and it's not any of those things that actually make
us happy. I want to thank Harry for being so

(50:46):
open and for sharing himself with us. And if you
want more from Harry, you can buy his book The
Good Fight at any good bookstore. Harry also spoke in
this episode about how much breath work helped him, and
if you're interested in breath work and you don't know
how to start, the move by Mummeya team has made
a free quiz to help you find the right meditation

(51:06):
for your day, your life, your needs. There's an entire
hi a collection of gentle mindfulness sessions over on move
mum MEA's exercise app. If you want a personalized recommendation,
head to the link in the show notes and take
the quiz to find your Meditation Match And if you
want to recommend anyone for the show, you can always
message me on Instagram. And if you like the show,

(51:29):
leave us a review. We always love your feedback. The
executive producer of But Are You Happy? Is Niama Brown
and the producer is Charlie Blackman. Audio editing by Scott
Stronik and I'm your host, Claire Stevens.

Speaker 3 (51:42):
We'll see you next week.