October 9, 2024 • 46 mins
Have you ever had to walk away from something you thought you wanted?
In this deeply vulnerable conversation, actress and author Steph Tisdell discusses leaving a toxic relationship, moving on from jobs that didn’t fit her anymore, and taking a break from social media.
On her journey to happiness—whatever that looks like for her—Steph also talks about the unique struggle she faces as an Indigenous woman trying to connect with both her own community and the wider Australian audience.
So, has Steph Tisdell found happiness? You'll have to listen to find out.
This episode contains references to domestic violence. If you or someone you know needs support, you can contact 1800 RESPECT.
THE END BITS
- You can find out more about Steph's book The Skin I'm In here.
GET IN TOUCH:
Send us a voice message or email us at podcast@mamamia.com.au to share your feedback about the show or to suggest a guest.
CREDITS:
Host: Clare Stephens
Guest: Steph Tisdell
Executive Producer: Naima Brown
Audio Producer: Scott Stronach
Mamamia acknowledges the Traditional Owners of the Land we have recorded this podcast on, the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation. We pay our respects to their Elders past and present and extend that respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander cultures.
Support the show: https://www.mamamia.com.au/mplus/
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Mamma May I acknowledges the traditional owners of the land
and waters that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I can always have moments of like absolute insane happiness,
because that's who I am. But it's very inconsistent, and
it's very unstable, and the drops are so so dark
that for now, my happy's aunt as happy, but my
sad's Arena's sad.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Hello, and welcome to But are you Happy?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
This is the podcast that asks the questions you've always
wanted to know from the people who appear to have
it all. I'm Klas Stevens and today's guest Steph Tisdall
is somebody you might know from her viral stand up comedy.
You might also know her from her roles on TV
shows like Total Control and Bump, or from movies like
(01:11):
Class of Seven and Lovers in the Air, or for
her writing for TV on the award winning comedy fisk
on Bump and her debut young adult book The Skin
I'm In. She had me laughing before and after this conversation.
She's exceptionally warm, but it's also one of the most
(01:35):
emotionally raw conversations I've had on this show and it
really really stuck with me. She was a rising star
in comedy and on stage she was being applauded by
sold out audiences. She was a golden girl of Australian comedy,
(01:55):
and then behind the scenes she was living a very
different life where she was in an abusive relationship with
someone who isolated her and financially abused her and knew
exactly how to pinpoint her vulnerabilities to hurt her. And
she is incredibly insightful about how certain types of people
(02:22):
can capitalize on your kindness and empathy. I asked her
about the tension as a First Nations woman of creating
comedy for two different audiences, one which is her own
community and one which.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Is the rest of Australia. We talk about.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Some pretty heavy topics in this conversation, so I'm going
to pop some links in the show notes for anyone
who needs support. We start our conversation where I like
to start all the conversations on this show, by asking
if Steph.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Had a happy childhood.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I want to start with how you grew up and
whether you grew up in a happy family, because this
podcast is all about happiness and I wonder how the
way your life started.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Kind of informed your approach to happiness.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Okay, I think it depends what you define happiness as. Obviously,
I grew up with a lot of privilege. I grew
up with never wanting for anything material or financial, but
(03:37):
maybe other things emotional needs. Not that I was neglected all,
It's just I was the youngest of four kids, and
my parents were really, really, really busy to make sure
they could provide us with stuff. Yeah, I don't really
even know how to answer that. I loved my childhood,
but I also recognize that there are some mental health
(03:59):
issues that I have probably as a result. But I
think that's pretty normal and I wouldn't ever want to
make it seem anything other than privileged.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
What was your biggest challenge to happiness growing up? What
do you kind of remember was the thing that made
you not be able to fully lean into enjoying everything.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
I think from the outside, my family was perfect, and
I think it was a lot of pressure. I think
I'm very different from the rest of my family in
that I'm a creative and an incredibly emotional person. I'm
the only girl, and I think there was a lot
of don't be like that. I think that was the
(04:50):
biggest issue that I had. I also think my parents
had a really interesting dynamic. We were just raised to
be the best children and put everybody else first, And
as a result, I've been in a lot of very
damaging relationship I think with friends, with you know, partners,
(05:14):
because I wanted to see the best and am used
to taking that role of I will nurture, nurture, nurture,
and my feelings don't matter.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
And so do you think you leaving that environment in
relationships and in friendships? Are you expecting the best from people?
Like do you think you're putting that on to other
people or do you think that you're just used to
not prioritizing yourself.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
I'm not really sure. I think I have that stereotypical
I want to fix everyone. It's been really hard to
kind of unloan that because I'm not a dumb person.
And you go, you kind of go, yeah, but the
reason why I'm making these decisions is because I have
the capacity and I know that I have the capacity
and the insight and the softness to allow people to
(06:07):
be a little broken or something. So you go, no, no, no,
it's fine. It's different I need to love somebody unconditionally
because they haven't been shown that before. But the problem
is that actually there is such thing as people just
being wankers? Do you know what I mean? And yeah,
I make too many excuses for people, and then wonder
(06:29):
how the funck I ended up where I ended up.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Did you grow up with any because just from what
I'm hearing from that, I wonder if you grew up
with any religion or spirituality, because there is this idea,
that unconditional love thing. I know from a Catholic background
that I find it hard to differentiate between the two.
That you're meant to love unconditionally and you are meant
(06:51):
to see the absolute best in people, and everybody is
see God in everyone, But then there's people who don't
have your best interest in that, and I have no
idea how those two things co existing.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
I don't either mean the hardest thing, I definitely didn't
grow up with religion. I just think I grew up
with a lot of different perspectives and this kind of
attitude that never ever take the simple, one dimensional answer.
We were always kind of encouraged to delve deep and
figure out why somebody would do something which you know,
(07:28):
in hindsight or with therapy, I recognized was I wasn't
allowed to have a feeling. But at the time it
kind of makes you feel smart, right as a kid
to be like, oh, that's all right, they were just
feeling this. But yeah, a lot of damaging people in
my life as a result of going because I know
where it's coming from, or because I feel I know better,
(07:51):
I have to forgive this and cop this. And you know,
I'm in therapy. Who isn't anybody who's worth talking to
is you know?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah. And one of the things that my therapist is
trying to teach me it's like, you're allowed to set
boundaries and I go, oh, yeah, but you've got to
let somebody you know, Like yeah, so I really didn't
expect childhood stuff. This was a real shock to me,
Like I've no, no, no, it's fine. No, it's because
I didn't want to be prepared. But as somebody who's
very openly vulnerable, I feel like that's maybe the one
(08:23):
area that I'm not. So it's like, interesting, I've gone
real serious.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
And I think even people who had incredibly privileged childhoods,
it really does inform your relationship with happiness because you
might have a parent who struggled with their own mental health.
You might have a dynamic that wasn't always good for
prioritizing your own happiness.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Yeah, you've just released.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Your first novel or the skin I'm in, and before
the book begins, you have a page that reads, this
book was written on the back of the hardest years
of my life to date, an escape and catharsis to
unpack some of the demons that come with struggling with
identity and finding your place in the world.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Can you explain that?
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yeah? Oh, man, So at the time I was going through, like,
I'm a completely different person than I was, say, four
years ago. I was leaving a relationship that was very
abusive and very scary to leave, and I was doing
it while my career was blowing up, and it was terrifying.
(09:34):
I was so burnt out, I was so busy, and
then I was just being harassed and threatened and my
livelihood was being threatened and I had to was just
before I started filming Total Control, which was like my
big sort of breakout thing, and I had to call
up the producers and say I need to come down
(09:56):
to Sydney. Early because I might get murdered. And I
go on to set I've never really done before, and
people are touching your face, you know, the whole time,
and you're so surrounded by people, and it was like great.
It was the biggest break for me. But I would
come back to my hotel and just see emails upon
(10:17):
emails upon emails and have to go to the police
and be like, Okay, he's breached the DVO and just
the emotional turmoil of everything, and you know that it's
going to happen, and then you think it won't, but
you can't figure out why you keep on staying and
then when you finally go, you go, oh, it's worse
(10:37):
than I thought. And I'm lucky. I mean, it's really
hard to talk about because I always feel like I'm
lucky because he didn't hit me. But the more that
I listen and learn, I go, this was fucking exactly
what coercive control is. And I had no idea who
I was at the end of it, and I didn't
have a second to stop and think about who I was,
(11:01):
and so I was isolated and I was sort of
stepping into this new world and it's like you both
want to talk about it and not talk about it
and laugh about it and not laugh about it. And yeah,
and while that was happening, some I guess difficult stuff
happened in my career, and even like, I don't think
it would have been a problem at all had I
(11:22):
not already been going through that. But when you do
what you love and you are doing it because you
have a goal in mind, nobody tells you how weird
it feels when people know who you are and how
much because I'm a really authentic person, and how hard
it is to know how much to give and how
(11:45):
how much you may open yourself up to shit. Yeah,
which it was a really hard time. And then at
the end of it, I ended up doing another show
with all of these queer women and they're like, I'm
pretty sure you're queer stuff and I was like, no,
I'm not, and I went, oh, no, I probably am. Yeah,
So like it was weird, like it just one year
I dated man and the next year dated women and
it was you know that it was a hard time
and it was like a real teenagehood and I had
(12:08):
to like sort of go, fucking hell, how much did
I hate myself to let this person treat me like
this for so long without ever honestly believing I deserved
better than that.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Do you think it was a process of things starting
really really small, so it was almost imperceptible, that coercive control,
and then getting to the point like when you say
somebody's contacting you constantly and breaching DeVos. Was it so
(12:47):
small that it was almost just like it starts and
then by the time it gets to that, it's been
so gradual that you think it's normal.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Do you know what, No, I think that that's probably
the case for a lot of people. When I look back,
I go, what the fuck did I do? It was
so obvious so soon. It really fucked me up because
I recognized that I don't think I cared. I thought
about who I did, and I just wanted to be loved,
and the male gaze was so important to me, and
(13:17):
I just wanted intimacy. I wanted children, so I really
wanted to have kids with him, which I'm so fucking
glad that I didn't, but like, I just wanted to
be accepted. Honestly, I look back and I go, I
do not know how I ever thought that that was acceptable,
even the first time that I told him that I
(13:37):
loved him was Oh, it makes me sick thinking back, like,
it makes me really sad for the version of me
that would have accepted that. I just thought he was
so beautiful, you know, And I said to him because
I just saw a sadness in his eyes that I recognized,
I think, And I was like, you're so beautiful. What
(13:58):
are you doing with me? You could have anyone? And
he's like, oh no. I was like, no, I look
at you, and he goes, okay, So look, yeah, if
we asked ten people on the street if they found
you attractive, maybe one, maybe two would say yes, and
then the majority wouldn't. But at least I think you're beautiful.
And I was like, I love you. That was my
(14:19):
first time that I told him I loved him, because
I just I need that so badly. I mean, by
the end of it, a lot of isolation. But I
was also paying our rent and our bills, paying him
a wage. He just had his finger in every pie,
you know. And my friends always laughed me, like, Steph,
(14:40):
I don't even think he likes you. It's noting that
he just he hates you, Like this is a man
who does not like you. But I was just scared
to leave him because because I knew that he was wrong,
And it was like, did I actually stay because my
own ego and pride? And it's like, yeah, when somebody
takes away everything else, you'll stay just to go. He'll
(15:02):
realize soon that's not. This isn't okay. It's really odd.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
What I find really interesting is even you talk about
your childhood and then talking about this sometimes I almost
think profound empathy can be a curse because you talk
about that sadness that you saw in his eyes, and
I'm sure it was there. And when you can look
at anyone and see their pain and see who they are,
(15:30):
it's then really hard to look at them and say
objectively you're doing the wrong thing because you do gymnastics
to work out their motivation. No, actually they're right because
I did this. And it's this weird thing where empathy
has to stop somewhere.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
It's weird.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
I agree, Like that's been the hardest thing in the
with therapy afterwards tours, it's like, yeah, but if you
can understand where somebody is coming from, or like if
you know that they don't see what they're doing because
they have this gap in their understanding. Then you've got
a gift you can offer them, and it's say no, no, no, no,
they don't want to change. And also the thing that
I think I really struggled with was some times people
(16:10):
are sociopathic. Like of course, like I was earning good
money by the time that I left him. I don't
know anymore, but I was for a time. Because acting
is much harder than comedy. You wouldn't have thought that,
out of the two, comedy was the money maker. But anyway,
but like I think he saw in me an ambitious
(16:31):
but insecure woman, you know, who wanted approve all. Yeah,
I think I was right for the picking, you know.
And I think, though, what is difficult. I had a
therapy session last week where my therapist said I was
saying to her that somebody that I was talking to
set a boundary and they weren't mad at me. And
(16:54):
I was like, why why aren't they mad at me?
She's like, because just letting you know that's a boundary.
And I was like, but I've obviously done something wrong.
She's like, no, that's not And I said, now I
need to know what that I can't settle, and they
must be hiding something from me. And she said, feel
more comfortable with anger, and I said, because I know
how to react to anger in a way that makes
(17:16):
me feel softer or reinforces my own sense of self,
which is soft, kind, whatever, And what a fucked thing.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
And it's hard to know when somebody set a boundary
with you, they're actually not angry with you, and they're
not angry with you because they've set the boundary.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Yes, Like it's like, no, this is actually a really
safe relation.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but it doesn't feel like that, yeah,
one hundred percent. Because then I was like, what do
I need to fit like? And that Yeah, my therapist
was like, do you feel better being in fix it mode?
And I was like, fucking don't.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Do this today.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
But it's true, like there's a level of control if
you're somebody who you know, like the part of me
that I identify with outwardly, or the one thing that
I want people to know about me above anything else,
you know, like the biggest compliment that you could give
me is that I'm kind, Do you know what I mean?
I want to be kind because that's all I've ever
(18:08):
wanted to be. And so it's like if I don't
feel like I'm being the kindest person in the whole
world or in the room or whatever it is, that
that can erode at such a weird thing.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
And it doesn't feel kind to look at someone and
think you're a sociopath one hundred. But you have to
because those people exist.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Yeah, they just do.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
And there's a lot that wouldn't be happening in the
world if they weren't sociopaths.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
They're just yeah, and it's it's so hard, hey, And
but like my dad is the world's kindest man, like
to his detriment, right, And one time we went out
for dinner and like, this was like the last big
fight that I have with my dad. We don't fight,
we're really close, but we had a big fight because
we went to dinner and I, for some unknown reasons,
I don't even eat fish, but I ordered fish and
(18:53):
chips and they brought out the wrong thing. They brought
out like a steamed fish, and I was like.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Absolutely not, I'm not going to be eating yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
And then Dad was like, we're not sending it back, Steff,
I'll eat it. And I went, Dad, you're not even
allowed to eat He's like allergic to fish, and I
was like, like, no, I could just ask for that
isn't what I ordered, And he's like, do not take
it back? And we had a fight because he got
up me and I thought, like, we're allowed to ask
for the other things.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Yes, we're actually allowed.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
He actually allowed, And it's okay, and no one's going
to cry and no one's gonna hate us.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
But man, there was a big fight at the table
that night, and he was very unhappy that I didn't
eat that steamed fish that looked disgusting. You know that
you didn't orders exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
After the break, Steph and I talk about the joke
that made her quit comedy. I have a theory that
the world lies to us a bit about happiness and
that often the moments that externally look the happiest internally
(20:04):
or not. And to me, it sounds like you had
that experience coming up in where on the outside you
were seriously Australia's findingest comedian. Everybody was just obsessed and
you were so confident and so charismatic, and you're on
stage and you're doing TV and looks like things couldn't
(20:28):
go better, and then behind the scenes you're going through
something so hard.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Yeah, yeah, I didn't think i'd survive it, like the
whole thing. And I'm not just talking about from his
end either, I'm talking about from me. It was the
hardest time of my life, and you become this needy, desperate,
like childlike version of yourself. I feel really emotional when
you leave because you like have to restore all of
(20:55):
your old relationships. And yeah, it was kind of new
that I was in a position where I was doing
so well, so all of my even people quite close
to me, like, oh my god, look at you blow
them up, you know, and you just go. I literally
I feel ungrateful to talk about how fucking hard this is.
(21:16):
And the better that my career was going, the more
I felt that I deserved what was happening, because do
you know what I'm saying, I didn't want to feel like,
oh on now, I think I'm better than that. This
is what I am. But at the end of the day,
I also think that like the way that we sort
of portray success publicly on screen or whatever, including on
(21:40):
social media, is so fucked because there's only two things
that make somebody successful. I think it's hard work and
emotional intelligence. That's it, Like anybody can do.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
It, you know, yeah, and you can't.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Interestingly, there are two things you can't see in a
photo or a video or whatever.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
I also can't teach them. Yeah. I am always surprised
by people that I meet that I look up to,
and I go, oh, it's not these things that I
have in my head of like odd's because they're beautiful,
it's because of oh they grew up here, or they
had this privilege. It's not. It's like people who know
how to make everyone feel safe in the space. Well women,
(22:21):
I don't know, there's a lot of fuck men.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Yeah, but who you mean? You go, how to hell
did you get there?
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. But like a lot of the
women that I've met, I go, oh, you know, how
to make people feel.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
I love that. That's actually really profound.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
And the hard work and emotional intelligence, the hard work
element I completely agree with and have thought that you
look at anybody, and as somebody who can be quite cynical,
I can look at people and be like, oh, yeah,
you're there because like you've got that fucker face yeah yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah, and you kind of dismiss like you're there
because of even like you can dismiss things in so
(22:55):
many different ways about why people have what they have.
Whenever you get close to it, you see, oh, you
actually don't have anything without hard work. It's very hard
to stumble up with without any hard work and an
emotional intelligence.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
That's very, very, very true. Yeah, that's something you notice.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yeah, Like I remember the first time that I met
This is such a weird person to bring up because
it's not the most famous person that I've met. She's
just had this like I don't know. She was on
my TV when I was a teenager, you know, Caitlyn Stacy.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, I've met her and I.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Was like, what's she gonna be like? And she's fucking
the smartest person I've ever met, like and hard working.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
And that was kind of after you were doing comedy
doing really well. Would you say you quit comedy for acting?
And why did you quit comedy?
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Because comedy was going to put me in the grave.
It's the hardest thing. It's the hardest because well, this
is this is how I always explain it. It's the
most vulnerable thing you'll ever do in the least intimate setting.
I tell secrets on stage that I haven't told my
closest friends, you know. And it's also incredibly lonely. I
(24:10):
never fit in with other comedians, mostly because they're just
a lot cooler than me. Like, I'm not a cool person.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
I have no idea what to expect.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
No, I mean like that makes it sound like I'm
shitting on them. I'm not like they're great, but like
I don't know how to banter. I want a D
and M and I want to have an emotional yarn
and I Also, I was having a different experience to
the people that I was performing with, Like I went
on tour. For example, I did the Melbourne Comedy Festival
road show and it used to drive me nuts because
(24:44):
I was always performing with straight white men. But we
get to somewhere and when you're a person of color,
I don't care who you are. There is a sixth
sense that you have. It doesn't matter how how much
you can get by, doesn't matter where you come from.
You have a sixth sense that lets you know when
you're not being perceived the way that other people are
(25:06):
being perceived. And the amount of times that I stepped
onto a stage, I always opened with I'm a proud
Aboriginal woman, and I see eye rolls, and I see
people go, oh, here we go, and you see this
kind of thing, and you have to stand there with
the biggest smile on and advocate, knowing that there are
(25:28):
people who already don't want to laugh, think that you're
the diversity token Act. And then you've also got this
kind of extra scanning that comes from within your own
community as well, because we're so afraid of having our
image and reputation tainted and tarnished because it's never been
(25:49):
under our control, that there is this sort of policing
or gate keeping that happens, and it happens in a
lot of marginalized groups, and I understand it, but the
amount of work and thought that went into every single
word that I said on stage felt like I was
doing a different task to my piece.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Oh one hundred. They literally would get up And I'm
sure for a lot of people it's like, leave political
correctness at the door for as cutting edge and wild
as I possibly can. But when you have an extra
sense of responsibility that you are not only like it's
enough being a bloody woman and then you're an indigenous
(26:29):
woman standing there that you then have the responsibility of
representing your community in a way that they are happy with.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yes, the hardest balance was and I remember having this
conversation with someone and feeling a lot of guilt and
shame about it. As I'm getting older, I'm going No,
I still and even when I felt guilt or shame
for it, I still stand by. I kind of got
asked this question of like, well, who's your audience. Is
it white fellows or is it black fellows? And I
was like, it's white fellows. I don't want to preach
to the converted. Black fellows will love me regardless because
(27:01):
I'm Black. We know each other's experience and stuff like that.
The problem is that if you steer indigenous material towards
white people, you begin to exclude your own people, and
that is a very shameful and difficult process to handle,
where you go, oh, fuck, I haven't even performed for
black fellows, and that long, I don't even know if
(27:23):
this is funny anymore to my own people. Yeah, but
I think as well though, because comedy was never about
I don't know, being famous or whatever. It was about
sharing love and sending a message. Then it again, it
felt like I was just playing a different game to
other people, and so my level of fear and nerves
and anxiety before and after a gig felt like I
(27:46):
was being too much again, too emotional or whatever, like
there are so many beautiful, lovely comedians, like I'm not
saying that there aren't. I just didn't feel like it
was supportive enough for something.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
It wasn't wasn't your people, No.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
No, yeah, because I couldn't just have that moment going
like here's what I'm thinking about when I'm doing this
joke and whatever, and they can go on there's a
funny bunchline. You go, no, no, no, no, I need to know
whether you understand that I you know, kind of I've
built all of this behind it to make sure that
this says all of this, and most people won't see
all of this, but one person, you know, and it's
kind of like okay, And it was always late nights,
(28:23):
early flights, alone all the time, and you get so
weird when you're alone but surrounded by people, like you know,
you get up on stage absolutely exhausted, You just give everything,
and then you step off stage and people are like,
stay being funny. You know, that was all I had?
Man like that was all I had, Like, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
I cannot imagine that would be the really, really tough
fit coming off stage and then people being like you
still like that, and you're like, I know, I'm exhausted.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
I need to go to bed.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
But I'm too friendly as well, and I hate being inauthentic.
I will get stuck in conversations for people for hours
about shit, and I like and I think, I'm so
glad they're being so kind, but fuck off, like and
I hate saying it, but that's the truth. And I
think that this is very specific to comedians as well.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Over familiarity, Oh because you've shared something, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yeah, but you know what he is so funny is
that I think probably the thing that pushed me over
the edge to stop doing comedy was everything that happened
with my ex, Like it was so embarrassing I have
to cool up a venue and be like, if you
see this person, you have to call the police, like,
which is a very weird and embarrassing thing to do,
but it haunts me. People will tell me hot boomeranger
(29:46):
and they go, so, where is he, And I'm like,
he's got a DVO. I was institutionalized.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
I was gonna ask when you're talking about your ex.
I'm like, there's a lot of jokes you made about
a certain person.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
And I was going to say, is that he yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Yeah, because all those they were hilarious. Yeah, it was jokes,
and they were asking something pretty fucked up.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah. Well no, but at the time I didn't Yeah,
I didn't feel like that. Yeah. But also like the
reason was a bit of my existence was after the fact,
he was like, well, I made you, Oh Jesus, I
made you, so anything you earn I'm entitled to. And
he was like trying to go through courts and everything,
and I'm like and he's like, you only got a
DVO because you are so you know, trying to hold
(30:27):
your reputation together. And I'm like, no, it's because you
won't stop contacting me. I'm scared you're gonna kill me.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
That's not how Wow, that's not how art works.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
You're not entitled to my staff because it happened to
me in my life.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
But it really is that contrast between you on stage
looking so happy, relaxed, at peace at home, and clearly
there was a lot going on around that, but I.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Did feel happy in those moments because I was away
from that. Yeah, there is no better, more powerful feeling
than being on stage because it's love. That's why I
think I also stopped enjoying comedy as much when I
was doing more TV comedy than live comedy. I've got
some amazing mentors as well, called Kevin Crapineri, who is
(31:18):
my mentor who's changed my life, and he always says
to me, the one thing that you need to know
to be successful is if you love your audience, they'll
love you. And so every time I walk on, say
to you, I'm just gonna hug this audience with my presence,
and like it's something I don't even know how to
describe it. And it feels very black to me because
me and I used to tour it a lot with
the Aboriginal All Stars and we'd all kind of talk
(31:41):
about it, like expanding your energy to fit the whole room,
right like, and it's so tiring. And I always like
I was mentoring a lot of people for a little bit,
and I'd be like, if you're not exhausted after five minutes,
you haven't put enough energy yet, you know, like you
should be exhausted because it's like you've got to actively
feel you feeling every single corner of that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Do you feel the same about acting? So you've been
in class FO seven. You did Loves in the Air
on Netflix and in Total Control it was more of
a serious role. Do you feel present in those moments?
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Acting is the best thing I've ever done, and it's
so different to what I ever expected. It's teamwork. Like,
have you been on a set?
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Yeah, I wrote a show for Singe and no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
First I wrote an episode and was on set for it. Yeah,
and it's it blows my mind. Yeah, Like I was like,
you film things out of order?
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
I was like I thought you filmed a chronology.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Yeah yeah, yeah. Everything about it is so everyone who's
reliant on each other. It feels like community.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
It must be quite a contrast to comedy, because being
on a set must feel a lot more like a
workplace because you've got this huge team of people around you.
You have no choice, especially for performance, you have no
choice but to trust the people you're with.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
Yeah, and just lean lean into that. If you don't,
you just can't do it.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
And but that must actually be a lot better I
would think for mental health. Yes, that you're around people.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Yes, I mean it's like it's double edged sword, right,
Like I think I'm an incredibly anxious person, like I
have like panic disorder. I really struggle with mental health.
It's just something that I have a real problem with
and trauma and blah blah blah blah blah, a whole
bunch of shit. Whereas when you're acting, you've got a
character that you can fall into and you kind of
(33:47):
can have elements of you and elements of the character.
Like it's really it's really weird. Although the other side
of it is that I want everyone to feel good
all the time, and sometimes I give way more energy
than I have in me because there are like sixty
people around you it all times, and I walk away going,
what the fuck have I just done? Yeah, like I've
(34:08):
got nothing in the tank. Yeah, but my management it's
really good at Like I go, I need time off
after acting, you know, I don't know, I much prefer it,
but I don't want it to sound like I'm shitting
on comedy. It's just I know it was so bad
for my mental health.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
After the break, Steph Tisdell shares the invisible challenges that
come with being a First Nations comedian. So you do
that writing you are on screen. I imagine that you audition
(34:44):
and have to deal with rejection. Yes, how do you
cope with that?
Speaker 1 (34:50):
That's a good question. I probably don't audition as much
as they should. I probably I am more interested in auditioning
for roles I think I'll get that's not good. I
don't like that. I need to be more open for
a whole bunch of things. But I think I actually
deal with it pretty well. It's surprising because rejection is
something that I'm very afraid of. When it comes to
(35:11):
a professional rejection, I'll just do shit like refuse to
watch the show. Yeah petty, nice, Yeah, just petty, but
only to myself.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Like yeah yeah, yeah, oh that's a good idea. And
you'd also be tempted to watch it and then just
pick apart the person to get the roles.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
I was like, that could have been friendly. Wow, ruined
that character.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Would the people in your life think that you're happy
right now?
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Yeah, that I've been in a long time. I'm not happy.
I think the more happy you get, the more that
you have to realize how I'm happy. You've been for
a very long time, which is harrowing. Do you know
what I mean? It's like, I'm probably the most stable
I've been for a long time, which means I'm the
most I'm the least happy. I have a huge capacity
(36:01):
for moments of pure joy and wonderment. I'm aimlessly curious
and spontaneous, and in moments I can be blissfully happy.
My big thing that I'm trying to do at the
moment is to stop distracting myself and leaning into the
feeling of boredom too much, because that's all distraction.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
How do you do that with technology? It's like, honestly,
it's such a big challenge. And I know my life
would be better if I was able to do that.
And boredom equals creativity, and I know that TikTok so far.
I know.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
I gave all my socials to my management.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Oh, such a good idea.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
I mean, I do still go on them only to check.
I don't write anything anymore because I just it's like
it's just false, it's inauthentic. I fucking hated. Yeah. I
think what I'm trying to work towards is I can
always have moments of like absolute insane happiness because that's
who I am. But it's very inconsistent and it's very unstable,
(36:59):
and the drops are so so dark that for now
my happy is an't as happy, But my sad's aren't
a sad, you know what I mean. And I'm moving
more towards stability and normal attachments, not weird, anxious attachments
that make me fuck up every relationship that ever comes
my way, and working on my health. I've lost twenty
(37:21):
two kilos and weirdly, my undies keep on falling down,
which is the weirdest thing to happen, because it's really
odd to just have your knickers falling down under your pants.
But anyway, I'm working on my health and my mental
health and I don't know if I'm happy, but I'm
working on it.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
And when you think about the rest of your life,
is there anything you think about that you're like, I
want that thing in order to be happy, or if
I didn't have that thing, I don't know if I
could be happy.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Money and children. I'm really broke. I suck at money.
I probably don't need to be broke. I just have
no ability to not buy whatever the fuck is in
front of you, Like do you know how many random
poop pens I've bought, just like things where you just
like click them and then I lose them the next
day and I go, that was eighteen dollars. You know,
I've got a lot of random shit, So money, or
(38:18):
at least managing my money better, would take a huge
amount of stress off my shoulders. I would love to
have children. I don't think I can handle children. I
think I decided I didn't want children after I realized
how much I was pushing to have children with a
very bad man, and I thought, oh my god, I'm
(38:40):
incredibly selfish because I would have made that kid's life
awful for the sake of me having a closeness with
another human being. I love nurturing, and I think I
would be a good mum, but I would have done
that to a child just for me to fulfill this
(39:01):
need to be a mum. The reality is I haven't
got the skills or the ability, or the time or
the mental bandwidth to have a child. And maybe one
day I will, that's the thing. But I'm also always single,
and you know, so yeah, I don't know. I would
(39:22):
love to have kids. I don't know if it would
make me any happier or not. I play Auntie to
a lot of different kids. Yeah, and better money management.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
You have talked about therapy and what are kind of
some of the tools and skills that you've learnt about
managing mental health over some of these really really challenging times.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
This is my biggest problem. I am super self aware
and I know what the work is, and I don't
really do it. I still don't know how the fuck
to sit with a heart emotion. No, I actually don't.
I actually just don't fully understand it. I let myself
more and more. I think there's a problem with being
(40:08):
too aware. I think it can be I'm a ruminator
and rubernuta that sounds like sphero. I actually think that
CBT is something I need to move away from.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Okay, I have a theory about this because I wonder
if it does sound like it would be. Because you're smart,
intellectual problem solving thinking a lot, you actually know that
your problem isn't that you don't know what you should
be doing, what your issues are, what logical fallacies you're using.
(40:42):
That's not the problem. The problem is like an emotional shift.
It's like you know what you're meant to think in
order to feel differently, but you're not feeling any different.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
Yes, I think that's a different kind of therapy.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, well I've been addressing that recently,
Like I switched to what's called body psychotherapy. Oh yeah, yeah,
body psycho therapy.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Be heard of that something I've apparently something that's meant
to be good for that is schemer therapy.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
It's like, yeah, I've done that too.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Did that do anything?
Speaker 1 (41:10):
I did it with a hypnotist. It was the fucking
wildest shit I've ever done. Man. Wi I like went
to like a childlike state and remembered when I got
mauled by a dog I didn't know. And then afterwards
I was like, adorable, STEP's been norma time because I
was in that, I was in the session and she
was like, and when was the last time you feeling
out of control? And then I was just like I
killed him and she was like sorry what. I was like,
(41:32):
he's dead and it's myself and she went, okay, Steph,
let's talk about this.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
That's the great opening to a novel.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
But yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, and what do you know?
What I was talking about was that the dog had
to be put down after it attacked me and I
was three, and I've never let the guilt go. My god,
I honestly regressed back to a child and I was like,
it's all my fault. He's dead, and like I was like,
the fuck did this leave?
Speaker 3 (41:56):
Like I don't know if it was helpful.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
I don't think I've thought about this dog bawling in
like twenty years, and all of a sudden, I can't
stop crying and grieving for that dog he was abause
you know, it bit me by my face. Oh my gosh.
I got thought I was going to have to get
like plastic surgery, and then they said we have to
(42:19):
put them down.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Didn't need to tell you that that You didn't need
to know that as a child. But it's traumatized me
like twenty five, so yes, that didn't. No.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
I think exercise has been really good for me. Well,
I've got big titties and lots of fat, so I'm
always in pain in my back, so swimming is really
good for me. I'm actually as of Saturday and running
training with my brother.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
Wow, that's meant to be a really good for you mental.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Healthy Yes, and that's that's what he says. Too, so
we're I'm not looking forward to it, but it'll be good.
I do have a terrible way of escaping my ship
by canceling others, terrify others, but then they the reprised me.
So I lean into some really beautiful friendships that I've
(43:16):
got where we've built them around recognizing that we're overly
aware and underacting. So yeah, those are my main tools.
Is being aware of when I'm distracting myself, like I
recognize when I'm binging. I've been binging for the last
few days because I've been really nervous about the book,
(43:37):
and I'm forgiving myself for that and being aware of
what expectations I have on myself and which one's a
true and genuine and fair and not fair. So yeah,
it's that shit. I don't know how the fuck to
get to loving myself, but right now forgiving myself or
accepting myself is good.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Well, thank you so much for your vulnerability today. That
was such a moving conversation. That's all we've got time
for on today's episode of That Are You Happy? Steph
Tisdall's novel The Skin I'm In is out now and
I cannot recommend it enough.
Speaker 3 (44:19):
It's a really, really beautiful story.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Told with her humor and warmth about a girl in
year twelve who's navigating cultural expectations and the complexities of
high school. We will pop a link to buy the
book in the show notes. This conversation was probably one
of the most vivid depictions that I've heard on this
(44:44):
show about how a person can appear and what they
are actually experiencing. So Steph was so honest about what
was going on in her life behind closed doors when
things looked really, really joyous from the outside. And I
think that honesty is such a gift. And there were
(45:09):
so many parts of this chat that really struck a
chord with me, and we're incredibly honest. The way Steph
talked about experiencing an abusive relationship, the way she talked
about her confidence being eroded, and how having extreme empathy
and being a really kind person can be capitalized on
(45:31):
by the wrong people, And I think it's really a
gift for her to share that vulnerability with us. If
there's anyone you know who you feel might really get
something out of this episode, please share it with them.
And if you want to recommend any guests for the show,
(45:51):
You can always get in touch with me on Instagram.
And if you like the show, please leave us a review.
It helps people to find us and to listen to
more of these really insightful conversations. The executive producer of
That Are You Happy is Naima Brown and the producer
is Charlie black Man. Audio editing by Scott Stronik. And
(46:13):
I'm your host, Claire Stevens, and we'll see you next week.
You're listening to a Muma Mia podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
Mamma May I acknowledges the traditional owners of the land
and waters that this podcast is recorded on.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I can always have moments of like absolute insane happiness,
because that's who I am. But it's very inconsistent, and
it's very unstable, and the drops are so so dark
that for now, my happy's aunt as happy, but my
sad's Arena's sad.
Speaker 3 (00:46):
Hello, and welcome to But are you Happy?
Speaker 2 (00:50):
This is the podcast that asks the questions you've always
wanted to know from the people who appear to have
it all. I'm Klas Stevens and today's guest Steph Tisdall
is somebody you might know from her viral stand up comedy.
You might also know her from her roles on TV
shows like Total Control and Bump, or from movies like
(01:11):
Class of Seven and Lovers in the Air, or for
her writing for TV on the award winning comedy fisk
on Bump and her debut young adult book The Skin
I'm In. She had me laughing before and after this conversation.
She's exceptionally warm, but it's also one of the most
(01:35):
emotionally raw conversations I've had on this show and it
really really stuck with me. She was a rising star
in comedy and on stage she was being applauded by
sold out audiences. She was a golden girl of Australian comedy,
(01:55):
and then behind the scenes she was living a very
different life where she was in an abusive relationship with
someone who isolated her and financially abused her and knew
exactly how to pinpoint her vulnerabilities to hurt her. And
she is incredibly insightful about how certain types of people
(02:22):
can capitalize on your kindness and empathy. I asked her
about the tension as a First Nations woman of creating
comedy for two different audiences, one which is her own
community and one which.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Is the rest of Australia. We talk about.
Speaker 2 (02:41):
Some pretty heavy topics in this conversation, so I'm going
to pop some links in the show notes for anyone
who needs support. We start our conversation where I like
to start all the conversations on this show, by asking
if Steph.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Had a happy childhood.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
I want to start with how you grew up and
whether you grew up in a happy family, because this
podcast is all about happiness and I wonder how the
way your life started.
Speaker 3 (03:14):
Kind of informed your approach to happiness.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Okay, I think it depends what you define happiness as. Obviously,
I grew up with a lot of privilege. I grew
up with never wanting for anything material or financial, but
(03:37):
maybe other things emotional needs. Not that I was neglected all,
It's just I was the youngest of four kids, and
my parents were really, really, really busy to make sure
they could provide us with stuff. Yeah, I don't really
even know how to answer that. I loved my childhood,
but I also recognize that there are some mental health
(03:59):
issues that I have probably as a result. But I
think that's pretty normal and I wouldn't ever want to
make it seem anything other than privileged.
Speaker 2 (04:11):
What was your biggest challenge to happiness growing up? What
do you kind of remember was the thing that made
you not be able to fully lean into enjoying everything.
Speaker 1 (04:24):
I think from the outside, my family was perfect, and
I think it was a lot of pressure. I think
I'm very different from the rest of my family in
that I'm a creative and an incredibly emotional person. I'm
the only girl, and I think there was a lot
of don't be like that. I think that was the
(04:50):
biggest issue that I had. I also think my parents
had a really interesting dynamic. We were just raised to
be the best children and put everybody else first, And
as a result, I've been in a lot of very
damaging relationship I think with friends, with you know, partners,
(05:14):
because I wanted to see the best and am used
to taking that role of I will nurture, nurture, nurture,
and my feelings don't matter.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
And so do you think you leaving that environment in
relationships and in friendships? Are you expecting the best from people?
Like do you think you're putting that on to other
people or do you think that you're just used to
not prioritizing yourself.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
I'm not really sure. I think I have that stereotypical
I want to fix everyone. It's been really hard to
kind of unloan that because I'm not a dumb person.
And you go, you kind of go, yeah, but the
reason why I'm making these decisions is because I have
the capacity and I know that I have the capacity
and the insight and the softness to allow people to
(06:07):
be a little broken or something. So you go, no, no, no,
it's fine. It's different I need to love somebody unconditionally
because they haven't been shown that before. But the problem
is that actually there is such thing as people just
being wankers? Do you know what I mean? And yeah,
I make too many excuses for people, and then wonder
(06:29):
how the funck I ended up where I ended up.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Did you grow up with any because just from what
I'm hearing from that, I wonder if you grew up
with any religion or spirituality, because there is this idea,
that unconditional love thing. I know from a Catholic background
that I find it hard to differentiate between the two.
That you're meant to love unconditionally and you are meant
(06:51):
to see the absolute best in people, and everybody is
see God in everyone, But then there's people who don't
have your best interest in that, and I have no
idea how those two things co existing.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
I don't either mean the hardest thing, I definitely didn't
grow up with religion. I just think I grew up
with a lot of different perspectives and this kind of
attitude that never ever take the simple, one dimensional answer.
We were always kind of encouraged to delve deep and
figure out why somebody would do something which you know,
(07:28):
in hindsight or with therapy, I recognized was I wasn't
allowed to have a feeling. But at the time it
kind of makes you feel smart, right as a kid
to be like, oh, that's all right, they were just
feeling this. But yeah, a lot of damaging people in
my life as a result of going because I know
where it's coming from, or because I feel I know better,
(07:51):
I have to forgive this and cop this. And you know,
I'm in therapy. Who isn't anybody who's worth talking to
is you know?
Speaker 2 (08:00):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (08:01):
Yeah. And one of the things that my therapist is
trying to teach me it's like, you're allowed to set
boundaries and I go, oh, yeah, but you've got to
let somebody you know, Like yeah, so I really didn't
expect childhood stuff. This was a real shock to me,
Like I've no, no, no, it's fine. No, it's because
I didn't want to be prepared. But as somebody who's
very openly vulnerable, I feel like that's maybe the one
(08:23):
area that I'm not. So it's like, interesting, I've gone
real serious.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
And I think even people who had incredibly privileged childhoods,
it really does inform your relationship with happiness because you
might have a parent who struggled with their own mental health.
You might have a dynamic that wasn't always good for
prioritizing your own happiness.
Speaker 3 (08:46):
Yeah, you've just released.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
Your first novel or the skin I'm in, and before
the book begins, you have a page that reads, this
book was written on the back of the hardest years
of my life to date, an escape and catharsis to
unpack some of the demons that come with struggling with
identity and finding your place in the world.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
Can you explain that?
Speaker 1 (09:08):
Yeah? Oh, man, So at the time I was going through, like,
I'm a completely different person than I was, say, four
years ago. I was leaving a relationship that was very
abusive and very scary to leave, and I was doing
it while my career was blowing up, and it was terrifying.
(09:34):
I was so burnt out, I was so busy, and
then I was just being harassed and threatened and my
livelihood was being threatened and I had to was just
before I started filming Total Control, which was like my
big sort of breakout thing, and I had to call
up the producers and say I need to come down
(09:56):
to Sydney. Early because I might get murdered. And I
go on to set I've never really done before, and
people are touching your face, you know, the whole time,
and you're so surrounded by people, and it was like great.
It was the biggest break for me. But I would
come back to my hotel and just see emails upon
(10:17):
emails upon emails and have to go to the police
and be like, Okay, he's breached the DVO and just
the emotional turmoil of everything, and you know that it's
going to happen, and then you think it won't, but
you can't figure out why you keep on staying and
then when you finally go, you go, oh, it's worse
(10:37):
than I thought. And I'm lucky. I mean, it's really
hard to talk about because I always feel like I'm
lucky because he didn't hit me. But the more that
I listen and learn, I go, this was fucking exactly
what coercive control is. And I had no idea who
I was at the end of it, and I didn't
have a second to stop and think about who I was,
(11:01):
and so I was isolated and I was sort of
stepping into this new world and it's like you both
want to talk about it and not talk about it
and laugh about it and not laugh about it. And yeah,
and while that was happening, some I guess difficult stuff
happened in my career, and even like, I don't think
it would have been a problem at all had I
(11:22):
not already been going through that. But when you do
what you love and you are doing it because you
have a goal in mind, nobody tells you how weird
it feels when people know who you are and how
much because I'm a really authentic person, and how hard
it is to know how much to give and how
(11:45):
how much you may open yourself up to shit. Yeah,
which it was a really hard time. And then at
the end of it, I ended up doing another show
with all of these queer women and they're like, I'm
pretty sure you're queer stuff and I was like, no,
I'm not, and I went, oh, no, I probably am. Yeah,
So like it was weird, like it just one year
I dated man and the next year dated women and
it was you know that it was a hard time
and it was like a real teenagehood and I had
(12:08):
to like sort of go, fucking hell, how much did
I hate myself to let this person treat me like
this for so long without ever honestly believing I deserved
better than that.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Do you think it was a process of things starting
really really small, so it was almost imperceptible, that coercive control,
and then getting to the point like when you say
somebody's contacting you constantly and breaching DeVos. Was it so
(12:47):
small that it was almost just like it starts and
then by the time it gets to that, it's been
so gradual that you think it's normal.
Speaker 1 (12:56):
Do you know what, No, I think that that's probably
the case for a lot of people. When I look back,
I go, what the fuck did I do? It was
so obvious so soon. It really fucked me up because
I recognized that I don't think I cared. I thought
about who I did, and I just wanted to be loved,
and the male gaze was so important to me, and
(13:17):
I just wanted intimacy. I wanted children, so I really
wanted to have kids with him, which I'm so fucking
glad that I didn't, but like, I just wanted to
be accepted. Honestly, I look back and I go, I
do not know how I ever thought that that was acceptable,
even the first time that I told him that I
(13:37):
loved him was Oh, it makes me sick thinking back, like,
it makes me really sad for the version of me
that would have accepted that. I just thought he was
so beautiful, you know, And I said to him because
I just saw a sadness in his eyes that I recognized,
I think, And I was like, you're so beautiful. What
(13:58):
are you doing with me? You could have anyone? And
he's like, oh no. I was like, no, I look
at you, and he goes, okay, So look, yeah, if
we asked ten people on the street if they found
you attractive, maybe one, maybe two would say yes, and
then the majority wouldn't. But at least I think you're beautiful.
And I was like, I love you. That was my
(14:19):
first time that I told him I loved him, because
I just I need that so badly. I mean, by
the end of it, a lot of isolation. But I
was also paying our rent and our bills, paying him
a wage. He just had his finger in every pie,
you know. And my friends always laughed me, like, Steph,
(14:40):
I don't even think he likes you. It's noting that
he just he hates you, Like this is a man
who does not like you. But I was just scared
to leave him because because I knew that he was wrong,
And it was like, did I actually stay because my
own ego and pride? And it's like, yeah, when somebody
takes away everything else, you'll stay just to go. He'll
(15:02):
realize soon that's not. This isn't okay. It's really odd.
Speaker 2 (15:07):
What I find really interesting is even you talk about
your childhood and then talking about this sometimes I almost
think profound empathy can be a curse because you talk
about that sadness that you saw in his eyes, and
I'm sure it was there. And when you can look
at anyone and see their pain and see who they are,
(15:30):
it's then really hard to look at them and say
objectively you're doing the wrong thing because you do gymnastics
to work out their motivation. No, actually they're right because
I did this. And it's this weird thing where empathy
has to stop somewhere.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
It's weird.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
I agree, Like that's been the hardest thing in the
with therapy afterwards tours, it's like, yeah, but if you
can understand where somebody is coming from, or like if
you know that they don't see what they're doing because
they have this gap in their understanding. Then you've got
a gift you can offer them, and it's say no, no, no, no,
they don't want to change. And also the thing that
I think I really struggled with was some times people
(16:10):
are sociopathic. Like of course, like I was earning good
money by the time that I left him. I don't
know anymore, but I was for a time. Because acting
is much harder than comedy. You wouldn't have thought that,
out of the two, comedy was the money maker. But anyway,
but like I think he saw in me an ambitious
(16:31):
but insecure woman, you know, who wanted approve all. Yeah,
I think I was right for the picking, you know.
And I think, though, what is difficult. I had a
therapy session last week where my therapist said I was
saying to her that somebody that I was talking to
set a boundary and they weren't mad at me. And
(16:54):
I was like, why why aren't they mad at me?
She's like, because just letting you know that's a boundary.
And I was like, but I've obviously done something wrong.
She's like, no, that's not And I said, now I
need to know what that I can't settle, and they
must be hiding something from me. And she said, feel
more comfortable with anger, and I said, because I know
how to react to anger in a way that makes
(17:16):
me feel softer or reinforces my own sense of self,
which is soft, kind, whatever, And what a fucked thing.
Speaker 2 (17:25):
And it's hard to know when somebody set a boundary
with you, they're actually not angry with you, and they're
not angry with you because they've set the boundary.
Speaker 3 (17:32):
Yes, Like it's like, no, this is actually a really
safe relation.
Speaker 1 (17:36):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, but it doesn't feel like that, yeah,
one hundred percent. Because then I was like, what do
I need to fit like? And that Yeah, my therapist
was like, do you feel better being in fix it mode?
And I was like, fucking don't.
Speaker 3 (17:46):
Do this today.
Speaker 1 (17:47):
But it's true, like there's a level of control if
you're somebody who you know, like the part of me
that I identify with outwardly, or the one thing that
I want people to know about me above anything else,
you know, like the biggest compliment that you could give
me is that I'm kind, Do you know what I mean?
I want to be kind because that's all I've ever
(18:08):
wanted to be. And so it's like if I don't
feel like I'm being the kindest person in the whole
world or in the room or whatever it is, that
that can erode at such a weird thing.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
And it doesn't feel kind to look at someone and
think you're a sociopath one hundred. But you have to
because those people exist.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
Yeah, they just do.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
And there's a lot that wouldn't be happening in the
world if they weren't sociopaths.
Speaker 1 (18:31):
They're just yeah, and it's it's so hard, hey, And
but like my dad is the world's kindest man, like
to his detriment, right, And one time we went out
for dinner and like, this was like the last big
fight that I have with my dad. We don't fight,
we're really close, but we had a big fight because
we went to dinner and I, for some unknown reasons,
I don't even eat fish, but I ordered fish and
(18:53):
chips and they brought out the wrong thing. They brought
out like a steamed fish, and I was like.
Speaker 3 (18:59):
Absolutely not, I'm not going to be eating yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:02):
And then Dad was like, we're not sending it back, Steff,
I'll eat it. And I went, Dad, you're not even
allowed to eat He's like allergic to fish, and I
was like, like, no, I could just ask for that
isn't what I ordered, And he's like, do not take
it back? And we had a fight because he got
up me and I thought, like, we're allowed to ask
for the other things.
Speaker 3 (19:21):
Yes, we're actually allowed.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
He actually allowed, And it's okay, and no one's going
to cry and no one's gonna hate us.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
But man, there was a big fight at the table
that night, and he was very unhappy that I didn't
eat that steamed fish that looked disgusting. You know that
you didn't orders exactly exactly.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
After the break, Steph and I talk about the joke
that made her quit comedy. I have a theory that
the world lies to us a bit about happiness and
that often the moments that externally look the happiest internally
(20:04):
or not. And to me, it sounds like you had
that experience coming up in where on the outside you
were seriously Australia's findingest comedian. Everybody was just obsessed and
you were so confident and so charismatic, and you're on
stage and you're doing TV and looks like things couldn't
(20:28):
go better, and then behind the scenes you're going through
something so hard.
Speaker 1 (20:33):
Yeah, yeah, I didn't think i'd survive it, like the
whole thing. And I'm not just talking about from his
end either, I'm talking about from me. It was the
hardest time of my life, and you become this needy, desperate,
like childlike version of yourself. I feel really emotional when
you leave because you like have to restore all of
(20:55):
your old relationships. And yeah, it was kind of new
that I was in a position where I was doing
so well, so all of my even people quite close
to me, like, oh my god, look at you blow
them up, you know, and you just go. I literally
I feel ungrateful to talk about how fucking hard this is.
(21:16):
And the better that my career was going, the more
I felt that I deserved what was happening, because do
you know what I'm saying, I didn't want to feel like,
oh on now, I think I'm better than that. This
is what I am. But at the end of the day,
I also think that like the way that we sort
of portray success publicly on screen or whatever, including on
(21:40):
social media, is so fucked because there's only two things
that make somebody successful. I think it's hard work and
emotional intelligence. That's it, Like anybody can do.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
It, you know, yeah, and you can't.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
Interestingly, there are two things you can't see in a
photo or a video or whatever.
Speaker 1 (21:58):
I also can't teach them. Yeah. I am always surprised
by people that I meet that I look up to,
and I go, oh, it's not these things that I
have in my head of like odd's because they're beautiful,
it's because of oh they grew up here, or they
had this privilege. It's not. It's like people who know
how to make everyone feel safe in the space. Well women,
(22:21):
I don't know, there's a lot of fuck men.
Speaker 3 (22:23):
Yeah, but who you mean? You go, how to hell
did you get there?
Speaker 2 (22:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. But like a lot of the
women that I've met, I go, oh, you know, how
to make people feel.
Speaker 3 (22:32):
I love that. That's actually really profound.
Speaker 2 (22:33):
And the hard work and emotional intelligence, the hard work
element I completely agree with and have thought that you
look at anybody, and as somebody who can be quite cynical,
I can look at people and be like, oh, yeah,
you're there because like you've got that fucker face yeah yeah, yeah,
yeah yeah, and you kind of dismiss like you're there
because of even like you can dismiss things in so
(22:55):
many different ways about why people have what they have.
Whenever you get close to it, you see, oh, you
actually don't have anything without hard work. It's very hard
to stumble up with without any hard work and an
emotional intelligence.
Speaker 3 (23:07):
That's very, very, very true. Yeah, that's something you notice.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
Yeah, Like I remember the first time that I met
This is such a weird person to bring up because
it's not the most famous person that I've met. She's
just had this like I don't know. She was on
my TV when I was a teenager, you know, Caitlyn Stacy.
Speaker 3 (23:25):
Yes, yes, yes, yes, I've met her and I.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Was like, what's she gonna be like? And she's fucking
the smartest person I've ever met, like and hard working.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
And that was kind of after you were doing comedy
doing really well. Would you say you quit comedy for acting?
And why did you quit comedy?
Speaker 1 (23:47):
Because comedy was going to put me in the grave.
It's the hardest thing. It's the hardest because well, this
is this is how I always explain it. It's the
most vulnerable thing you'll ever do in the least intimate setting.
I tell secrets on stage that I haven't told my
closest friends, you know. And it's also incredibly lonely. I
(24:10):
never fit in with other comedians, mostly because they're just
a lot cooler than me. Like, I'm not a cool person.
Speaker 3 (24:18):
I have no idea what to expect.
Speaker 1 (24:19):
No, I mean like that makes it sound like I'm
shitting on them. I'm not like they're great, but like
I don't know how to banter. I want a D
and M and I want to have an emotional yarn
and I Also, I was having a different experience to
the people that I was performing with, Like I went
on tour. For example, I did the Melbourne Comedy Festival
road show and it used to drive me nuts because
(24:44):
I was always performing with straight white men. But we
get to somewhere and when you're a person of color,
I don't care who you are. There is a sixth
sense that you have. It doesn't matter how how much
you can get by, doesn't matter where you come from.
You have a sixth sense that lets you know when
you're not being perceived the way that other people are
(25:06):
being perceived. And the amount of times that I stepped
onto a stage, I always opened with I'm a proud
Aboriginal woman, and I see eye rolls, and I see
people go, oh, here we go, and you see this
kind of thing, and you have to stand there with
the biggest smile on and advocate, knowing that there are
(25:28):
people who already don't want to laugh, think that you're
the diversity token Act. And then you've also got this
kind of extra scanning that comes from within your own
community as well, because we're so afraid of having our
image and reputation tainted and tarnished because it's never been
(25:49):
under our control, that there is this sort of policing
or gate keeping that happens, and it happens in a
lot of marginalized groups, and I understand it, but the
amount of work and thought that went into every single
word that I said on stage felt like I was
doing a different task to my piece.
Speaker 2 (26:06):
Oh one hundred. They literally would get up And I'm
sure for a lot of people it's like, leave political
correctness at the door for as cutting edge and wild
as I possibly can. But when you have an extra
sense of responsibility that you are not only like it's
enough being a bloody woman and then you're an indigenous
(26:29):
woman standing there that you then have the responsibility of
representing your community in a way that they are happy with.
Speaker 1 (26:37):
Yes, the hardest balance was and I remember having this
conversation with someone and feeling a lot of guilt and
shame about it. As I'm getting older, I'm going No,
I still and even when I felt guilt or shame
for it, I still stand by. I kind of got
asked this question of like, well, who's your audience. Is
it white fellows or is it black fellows? And I
was like, it's white fellows. I don't want to preach
to the converted. Black fellows will love me regardless because
(27:01):
I'm Black. We know each other's experience and stuff like that.
The problem is that if you steer indigenous material towards
white people, you begin to exclude your own people, and
that is a very shameful and difficult process to handle,
where you go, oh, fuck, I haven't even performed for
black fellows, and that long, I don't even know if
(27:23):
this is funny anymore to my own people. Yeah, but
I think as well though, because comedy was never about
I don't know, being famous or whatever. It was about
sharing love and sending a message. Then it again, it
felt like I was just playing a different game to
other people, and so my level of fear and nerves
and anxiety before and after a gig felt like I
(27:46):
was being too much again, too emotional or whatever, like
there are so many beautiful, lovely comedians, like I'm not
saying that there aren't. I just didn't feel like it
was supportive enough for something.
Speaker 2 (27:59):
It wasn't wasn't your people, No.
Speaker 1 (28:01):
No, yeah, because I couldn't just have that moment going
like here's what I'm thinking about when I'm doing this
joke and whatever, and they can go on there's a
funny bunchline. You go, no, no, no, no, I need to know
whether you understand that I you know, kind of I've
built all of this behind it to make sure that
this says all of this, and most people won't see
all of this, but one person, you know, and it's
kind of like okay, And it was always late nights,
(28:23):
early flights, alone all the time, and you get so
weird when you're alone but surrounded by people, like you know,
you get up on stage absolutely exhausted, You just give everything,
and then you step off stage and people are like,
stay being funny. You know, that was all I had?
Man like that was all I had, Like, you know.
Speaker 2 (28:47):
I cannot imagine that would be the really, really tough
fit coming off stage and then people being like you
still like that, and you're like, I know, I'm exhausted.
Speaker 3 (28:56):
I need to go to bed.
Speaker 1 (28:57):
But I'm too friendly as well, and I hate being inauthentic.
I will get stuck in conversations for people for hours
about shit, and I like and I think, I'm so
glad they're being so kind, but fuck off, like and
I hate saying it, but that's the truth. And I
think that this is very specific to comedians as well.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
Over familiarity, Oh because you've shared something, yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:22):
Yeah, but you know what he is so funny is
that I think probably the thing that pushed me over
the edge to stop doing comedy was everything that happened
with my ex, Like it was so embarrassing I have
to cool up a venue and be like, if you
see this person, you have to call the police, like,
which is a very weird and embarrassing thing to do,
but it haunts me. People will tell me hot boomeranger
(29:46):
and they go, so, where is he, And I'm like,
he's got a DVO. I was institutionalized.
Speaker 2 (29:52):
I was gonna ask when you're talking about your ex.
I'm like, there's a lot of jokes you made about
a certain person.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
And I was going to say, is that he yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
Yeah, because all those they were hilarious. Yeah, it was jokes,
and they were asking something pretty fucked up.
Speaker 1 (30:05):
Yeah. Well no, but at the time I didn't Yeah,
I didn't feel like that. Yeah. But also like the
reason was a bit of my existence was after the fact,
he was like, well, I made you, Oh Jesus, I
made you, so anything you earn I'm entitled to. And
he was like trying to go through courts and everything,
and I'm like and he's like, you only got a
DVO because you are so you know, trying to hold
(30:27):
your reputation together. And I'm like, no, it's because you
won't stop contacting me. I'm scared you're gonna kill me.
Speaker 3 (30:32):
That's not how Wow, that's not how art works.
Speaker 2 (30:35):
You're not entitled to my staff because it happened to
me in my life.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (30:40):
But it really is that contrast between you on stage
looking so happy, relaxed, at peace at home, and clearly
there was a lot going on around that, but I.
Speaker 1 (30:56):
Did feel happy in those moments because I was away
from that. Yeah, there is no better, more powerful feeling
than being on stage because it's love. That's why I
think I also stopped enjoying comedy as much when I
was doing more TV comedy than live comedy. I've got
some amazing mentors as well, called Kevin Crapineri, who is
(31:18):
my mentor who's changed my life, and he always says
to me, the one thing that you need to know
to be successful is if you love your audience, they'll
love you. And so every time I walk on, say
to you, I'm just gonna hug this audience with my presence,
and like it's something I don't even know how to
describe it. And it feels very black to me because
me and I used to tour it a lot with
the Aboriginal All Stars and we'd all kind of talk
(31:41):
about it, like expanding your energy to fit the whole room,
right like, and it's so tiring. And I always like
I was mentoring a lot of people for a little bit,
and I'd be like, if you're not exhausted after five minutes,
you haven't put enough energy yet, you know, like you
should be exhausted because it's like you've got to actively
feel you feeling every single corner of that. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:04):
Do you feel the same about acting? So you've been
in class FO seven. You did Loves in the Air
on Netflix and in Total Control it was more of
a serious role. Do you feel present in those moments?
Speaker 1 (32:21):
Acting is the best thing I've ever done, and it's
so different to what I ever expected. It's teamwork. Like,
have you been on a set?
Speaker 3 (32:29):
Yeah, I wrote a show for Singe and no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 2 (32:35):
First I wrote an episode and was on set for it. Yeah,
and it's it blows my mind. Yeah, Like I was like,
you film things out of order?
Speaker 1 (32:42):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
I was like I thought you filmed a chronology.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Yeah yeah, yeah. Everything about it is so everyone who's
reliant on each other. It feels like community.
Speaker 2 (32:53):
It must be quite a contrast to comedy, because being
on a set must feel a lot more like a
workplace because you've got this huge team of people around you.
You have no choice, especially for performance, you have no
choice but to trust the people you're with.
Speaker 3 (33:12):
Yeah, and just lean lean into that. If you don't,
you just can't do it.
Speaker 2 (33:16):
And but that must actually be a lot better I
would think for mental health. Yes, that you're around people.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
Yes, I mean it's like it's double edged sword, right,
Like I think I'm an incredibly anxious person, like I
have like panic disorder. I really struggle with mental health.
It's just something that I have a real problem with
and trauma and blah blah blah blah blah, a whole
bunch of shit. Whereas when you're acting, you've got a
character that you can fall into and you kind of
(33:47):
can have elements of you and elements of the character.
Like it's really it's really weird. Although the other side
of it is that I want everyone to feel good
all the time, and sometimes I give way more energy
than I have in me because there are like sixty
people around you it all times, and I walk away going,
what the fuck have I just done? Yeah, like I've
(34:08):
got nothing in the tank. Yeah, but my management it's
really good at Like I go, I need time off
after acting, you know, I don't know, I much prefer it,
but I don't want it to sound like I'm shitting
on comedy. It's just I know it was so bad
for my mental health.
Speaker 2 (34:23):
After the break, Steph Tisdell shares the invisible challenges that
come with being a First Nations comedian. So you do
that writing you are on screen. I imagine that you audition
(34:44):
and have to deal with rejection. Yes, how do you
cope with that?
Speaker 1 (34:50):
That's a good question. I probably don't audition as much
as they should. I probably I am more interested in auditioning
for roles I think I'll get that's not good. I
don't like that. I need to be more open for
a whole bunch of things. But I think I actually
deal with it pretty well. It's surprising because rejection is
something that I'm very afraid of. When it comes to
(35:11):
a professional rejection, I'll just do shit like refuse to
watch the show. Yeah petty, nice, Yeah, just petty, but
only to myself.
Speaker 2 (35:19):
Like yeah yeah, yeah, oh that's a good idea. And
you'd also be tempted to watch it and then just
pick apart the person to get the roles.
Speaker 1 (35:28):
I was like, that could have been friendly. Wow, ruined
that character.
Speaker 2 (35:36):
Would the people in your life think that you're happy
right now?
Speaker 1 (35:40):
Yeah, that I've been in a long time. I'm not happy.
I think the more happy you get, the more that
you have to realize how I'm happy. You've been for
a very long time, which is harrowing. Do you know
what I mean? It's like, I'm probably the most stable
I've been for a long time, which means I'm the
most I'm the least happy. I have a huge capacity
(36:01):
for moments of pure joy and wonderment. I'm aimlessly curious
and spontaneous, and in moments I can be blissfully happy.
My big thing that I'm trying to do at the
moment is to stop distracting myself and leaning into the
feeling of boredom too much, because that's all distraction.
Speaker 2 (36:19):
How do you do that with technology? It's like, honestly,
it's such a big challenge. And I know my life
would be better if I was able to do that.
And boredom equals creativity, and I know that TikTok so far.
I know.
Speaker 1 (36:34):
I gave all my socials to my management.
Speaker 3 (36:37):
Oh, such a good idea.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
I mean, I do still go on them only to check.
I don't write anything anymore because I just it's like
it's just false, it's inauthentic. I fucking hated. Yeah. I
think what I'm trying to work towards is I can
always have moments of like absolute insane happiness because that's
who I am. But it's very inconsistent and it's very unstable,
(36:59):
and the drops are so so dark that for now
my happy is an't as happy, But my sad's aren't
a sad, you know what I mean. And I'm moving
more towards stability and normal attachments, not weird, anxious attachments
that make me fuck up every relationship that ever comes
my way, and working on my health. I've lost twenty
(37:21):
two kilos and weirdly, my undies keep on falling down,
which is the weirdest thing to happen, because it's really
odd to just have your knickers falling down under your pants.
But anyway, I'm working on my health and my mental
health and I don't know if I'm happy, but I'm
working on it.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
And when you think about the rest of your life,
is there anything you think about that you're like, I
want that thing in order to be happy, or if
I didn't have that thing, I don't know if I
could be happy.
Speaker 1 (37:55):
Money and children. I'm really broke. I suck at money.
I probably don't need to be broke. I just have
no ability to not buy whatever the fuck is in
front of you, Like do you know how many random
poop pens I've bought, just like things where you just
like click them and then I lose them the next
day and I go, that was eighteen dollars. You know,
I've got a lot of random shit, So money, or
(38:18):
at least managing my money better, would take a huge
amount of stress off my shoulders. I would love to
have children. I don't think I can handle children. I
think I decided I didn't want children after I realized
how much I was pushing to have children with a
very bad man, and I thought, oh my god, I'm
(38:40):
incredibly selfish because I would have made that kid's life
awful for the sake of me having a closeness with
another human being. I love nurturing, and I think I
would be a good mum, but I would have done
that to a child just for me to fulfill this
(39:01):
need to be a mum. The reality is I haven't
got the skills or the ability, or the time or
the mental bandwidth to have a child. And maybe one
day I will, that's the thing. But I'm also always single,
and you know, so yeah, I don't know. I would
(39:22):
love to have kids. I don't know if it would
make me any happier or not. I play Auntie to
a lot of different kids. Yeah, and better money management.
Speaker 2 (39:31):
You have talked about therapy and what are kind of
some of the tools and skills that you've learnt about
managing mental health over some of these really really challenging times.
Speaker 1 (39:48):
This is my biggest problem. I am super self aware
and I know what the work is, and I don't
really do it. I still don't know how the fuck
to sit with a heart emotion. No, I actually don't.
I actually just don't fully understand it. I let myself
more and more. I think there's a problem with being
(40:08):
too aware. I think it can be I'm a ruminator
and rubernuta that sounds like sphero. I actually think that
CBT is something I need to move away from.
Speaker 2 (40:22):
Okay, I have a theory about this because I wonder
if it does sound like it would be. Because you're smart,
intellectual problem solving thinking a lot, you actually know that
your problem isn't that you don't know what you should
be doing, what your issues are, what logical fallacies you're using.
(40:42):
That's not the problem. The problem is like an emotional shift.
It's like you know what you're meant to think in
order to feel differently, but you're not feeling any different.
Speaker 3 (40:51):
Yes, I think that's a different kind of therapy.
Speaker 1 (40:55):
Yeah yeah, yeah, yeah, well I've been addressing that recently,
Like I switched to what's called body psychotherapy. Oh yeah, yeah,
body psycho therapy.
Speaker 2 (41:02):
Be heard of that something I've apparently something that's meant
to be good for that is schemer therapy.
Speaker 1 (41:06):
It's like, yeah, I've done that too.
Speaker 3 (41:09):
Did that do anything?
Speaker 1 (41:10):
I did it with a hypnotist. It was the fucking
wildest shit I've ever done. Man. Wi I like went
to like a childlike state and remembered when I got
mauled by a dog I didn't know. And then afterwards
I was like, adorable, STEP's been norma time because I
was in that, I was in the session and she
was like, and when was the last time you feeling
out of control? And then I was just like I
killed him and she was like sorry what. I was like,
(41:32):
he's dead and it's myself and she went, okay, Steph,
let's talk about this.
Speaker 3 (41:36):
That's the great opening to a novel.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
But yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, and what do you know?
What I was talking about was that the dog had
to be put down after it attacked me and I
was three, and I've never let the guilt go. My god,
I honestly regressed back to a child and I was like,
it's all my fault. He's dead, and like I was like,
the fuck did this leave?
Speaker 3 (41:56):
Like I don't know if it was helpful.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
I don't think I've thought about this dog bawling in
like twenty years, and all of a sudden, I can't
stop crying and grieving for that dog he was abause
you know, it bit me by my face. Oh my gosh.
I got thought I was going to have to get
like plastic surgery, and then they said we have to
(42:19):
put them down.
Speaker 2 (42:20):
Didn't need to tell you that that You didn't need
to know that as a child. But it's traumatized me
like twenty five, so yes, that didn't. No.
Speaker 1 (42:35):
I think exercise has been really good for me. Well,
I've got big titties and lots of fat, so I'm
always in pain in my back, so swimming is really
good for me. I'm actually as of Saturday and running
training with my brother.
Speaker 3 (42:53):
Wow, that's meant to be a really good for you mental.
Speaker 1 (42:55):
Healthy Yes, and that's that's what he says. Too, so
we're I'm not looking forward to it, but it'll be good.
I do have a terrible way of escaping my ship
by canceling others, terrify others, but then they the reprised me.
So I lean into some really beautiful friendships that I've
(43:16):
got where we've built them around recognizing that we're overly
aware and underacting. So yeah, those are my main tools.
Is being aware of when I'm distracting myself, like I
recognize when I'm binging. I've been binging for the last
few days because I've been really nervous about the book,
(43:37):
and I'm forgiving myself for that and being aware of
what expectations I have on myself and which one's a
true and genuine and fair and not fair. So yeah,
it's that shit. I don't know how the fuck to
get to loving myself, but right now forgiving myself or
accepting myself is good.
Speaker 2 (43:58):
Well, thank you so much for your vulnerability today. That
was such a moving conversation. That's all we've got time
for on today's episode of That Are You Happy? Steph
Tisdall's novel The Skin I'm In is out now and
I cannot recommend it enough.
Speaker 3 (44:19):
It's a really, really beautiful story.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
Told with her humor and warmth about a girl in
year twelve who's navigating cultural expectations and the complexities of
high school. We will pop a link to buy the
book in the show notes. This conversation was probably one
of the most vivid depictions that I've heard on this
(44:44):
show about how a person can appear and what they
are actually experiencing. So Steph was so honest about what
was going on in her life behind closed doors when
things looked really, really joyous from the outside. And I
think that honesty is such a gift. And there were
(45:09):
so many parts of this chat that really struck a
chord with me, and we're incredibly honest. The way Steph
talked about experiencing an abusive relationship, the way she talked
about her confidence being eroded, and how having extreme empathy
and being a really kind person can be capitalized on
(45:31):
by the wrong people, And I think it's really a
gift for her to share that vulnerability with us. If
there's anyone you know who you feel might really get
something out of this episode, please share it with them.
And if you want to recommend any guests for the show,
(45:51):
You can always get in touch with me on Instagram.
And if you like the show, please leave us a review.
It helps people to find us and to listen to
more of these really insightful conversations. The executive producer of
That Are You Happy is Naima Brown and the producer
is Charlie black Man. Audio editing by Scott Stronik. And
(46:13):
I'm your host, Claire Stevens, and we'll see you next week.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Monster: BTK
'Monster: BTK', the newest installment in the 'Monster' franchise, reveals the true story of the Wichita, Kansas serial killer who murdered at least 10 people between 1974 and 1991. Known by the moniker, BTK – Bind Torture Kill, his notoriety was bolstered by the taunting letters he sent to police, and the chilling phone calls he made to media outlets. BTK's identity was finally revealed in 2005 to the shock of his family, his community, and the world. He was the serial killer next door. From Tenderfoot TV & iHeartPodcasts, this is 'Monster: BTK'.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.