January 26, 2025 • 32 mins
What's your relationship like with carbohydrates? If you grew up in the 80s or 90s - there's a fairly big chance you were led to believe that "carbs are the enemy". In this week's episode, host Phoebe Parsons is joined by Personal Trainer, professional athlete and one of her best friends Nicila Costello to talk about their own experiences with carbs. Together, they explore why your body needs them, how they fuel your workouts and how they'll actually make your body ripped - proving once and for all that carbs are in fact - your friend.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Appod Shake Production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to fit Ish. I'm Phoebe Parsons and this is
the podcast that proves that you don't have to choose
between staying fit and having fun. Welcome back to the
podcast pet Professional Athlete, Boxing Queen and my bestie MICHAELA. Costello.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
That was a great intro, but I really hope the
one you did before that makes onto the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
It was atrocious.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I've once said the bye did the vomit sound?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
It was a lot.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
I really I hope that everybody listening gets to see
the footage of what just happened. And then you weirdly
being nervous around me when we hang out so much,
and we pretty much took twenty three out of twenty
four hours a day on several platforms.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I'm sweating and I'm not sure if it's because of
what just happened or because the lights that are absolutely
beaming down on us right now.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
And you shdio is nice. Look, thank you for having me.
And this is a topic. I'm actually very happy to
be here talk about this, and very It's a timely
one because I've had this come up recently with a
client so.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Well, I mean, as the title suggests people will know
that today we are chatting about carbs and more specifically
why they are not the enemy. And I want to
do a little bit of a look back and a
bit of a reflection because I used to be terrified
of carbs, as so many people were. But one of
the things that really never ceases to amaze me about
you is how well adjusted you are, particularly around food
(01:34):
and nutrition. But I didn't know you and your teens,
so I don't know if you've been through this, especially
because you have a background in bodybuilding and I know
that that can really fuck you up mentally. Have you
ever been in kind of that like fad diet, scared
of carbs era in your life? No, Evertually, I feel
very blessed for my Obviously, this is like deep seated
(01:56):
things that we have right that we're like good at
and I'm when it comes to.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Food or nutrition, I'm very very little.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
He had very balanced and I've never I've definitely been
through terrible Like we all grew up with Woman's Weekly
and whatever it was that was like over the top
of the nineties right and early two thousands, So obviously
I had that pressure. I had a mum who was,
you know, diagnosed anderyxic, like we had weird things. But
given that, I'm yeah, I'm very balanced and have a
(02:26):
good approach, and hopefully I like to think that I'm
able to give people that as well.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
One hundred percent. I mean, you changed the game for me,
But I want to go back one step because I
feel like it's something that was ingrained in us since
we grew up. Obviously our parents and totally honestly, and
it's not their fault because they didn't know any better
because they were being fed this false information and they
they were in their early adulthood in the era of
(02:53):
Atkins and low carbon no carbon. I specifically remember one
time as a teenager, and this is no shade to
my mum, because I think a lot of the Warrens
were like this, and she is an angel, but I
remember having do you remember jaffle makers? You have a
jaffle maker, and I would make like a toasted sandwich
and I put a tin of spaghetti in there, and
I was eating a delicious tin spaghetti jaffle fucking yum.
(03:15):
And my mom came into the kitchen and she's like, hmm,
interesting choice cabs on cabs Maybe next time you should
pop some baked beans in there. And I was horrified,
And in my mind that is the first memory I
have of being like, oh, cabs aren't actually a good
thing for me to be eating.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
We were specifically told. And it's so funny because when
I say this as a joke at the club, anybody
in my age group is like, yes, any girl in
my age group. My mom being like, cut that pastor
will make you as big as a house. That was
quote unquote mum ever the time, and I actually think,
do you know what? And I want to say that
me and my mum have an amazing relationship. We have
very very great relationship.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Boss.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
She's the beast and I love her, and especially since
I've become a mum, you can see how things happen.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
But I think the fact that we.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Had a strained relationship when I was growing up probably
the reason why, because anytime she said something like say that,
or if she was because she was so weird with food,
I'm just like, I guess I'll probably push back on
that note towards here, but like in myself to be
like no, whereas you know, I just wow, I've probably
(04:23):
went too deep there. But I actually like I think
for me, I'm like that. I always do wonder how
I have managed that, because I feel very lucky to
not have this guilt asso shared with food, because psychologically,
for I would say ninety five percent of people, that
is everything and I kind of don't have that, or
at least when I am being I'm very well aware
(04:43):
of it.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah, I think that might be why wow, what a great.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
The right way to start, But no, I want to
roll off the back of that because I truly, truly
believe I've been thinking about this a lot in the
last couple of days and the lead up to having
this chart, because I think I've spoken very surface level
about this kind of stuff before. But I think that
for so many of us, it's a learned behavior or
a learned thought pattern. It's not something that we chose
(05:09):
for ourselves because we saw it in our moms. We
saw it in magazines, we saw it on movies and
in TV shows like that was always a narrative. Carbs
are always bad if you were like the skinny, pretty
main character energy in a movie. And I don't think
anybody purposely stayed away from them because of their own
experience with them. You stayed away from them because of
the narrative that was built around carbs, and I think
(05:32):
that is so much of people's early adulthood and early
experience with diets, as you're not making the decision based
on the experience you've had with something, it's based off
what you've seen other people doing.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
But that's also that's everything in life, right.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
It's like when you know people tend to vote the
way their parents vote or whatever. It's like, even if
you instinctively think you make those choices, we go by
what we've been surrounded by. And that's what's so important
what we consume. And you know, it's obviously a running joke.
I'm not on TikTok and I like to think of
a big deal on its green, but like you have
to beat TikTok has really with the health and fitness
(06:08):
space bringing back very very bad culture because it's these
clips that are so sure and not that instagrams are
not the same, but it's just different.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Purpose Like what works.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
On there is different, and people sound very academic, and
they sound very trustworthy, and they sound so scientific and
they know what they're saying and they use big words.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
But the.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Meshing that data in a way that goes with the
narrative they want to put out there, and then people
are sharing it. It gets and I feel that there
is a rise again. I actually thought we were through
this with the carbohydrates, and now it's prevalent again. And
the one thing, if you're I should have seen this
the first second i'd started this podcast. But if you
only get to this point and this is what you hear,
(06:50):
I need you to hear this. When they say when
it comes to cutting your carbs, I'm burning fat for fuel.
That doesn't mean body fat, that means dietary fat. You
are burning fat as your fuel source, which is hard
fuel source compared to carbohydrates. But that's what they mean.
They don't It does not mean I'm burning fat for
fuel like body fat for fuel. There's two distinct differences.
(07:14):
We can get into that, but it's so important. Please
never hear that, because that's so appealing. I'm burning body
fat for fuel. Oh, everyone wants we want a magic pill.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
It's the quick fix mentality.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
And now it's hard for me to say this because
of those impic but if there was a magic pill,
Oprah would be fucking skinny. And she would have been
skinny for a long time, Like how many fair diets
has she been on? That bit is so rich, Like
if that existed, that you could pay for something that
does it, she would have done it a long time ago. Again,
a zimp probably is that magic pill. We finally found it,
(07:45):
but you know one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
And I feel like, okay, firstly, if you're stop stopping listening,
now grow up and listen to the rest, because this
is a really good episode. And secondly, when I started
eating carbs, probably like really consistently, I would say two
years ago, I kind of started back into my journey.
I have never been more I want to say riped,
because I wouldn't describe myself as a ripped person, but
(08:07):
I have never been in better shape physically or mentally.
And that is the most important part for me. But
it took me a while to get here because again,
when I was getting really serious about fitness and I
was starting out doing my instructive training courses and things
like that, I was very in the Les Miles world,
and there was this one master trainer in particular who
(08:28):
was very open about what she ate. And that's when
what I eat in what I ate in the day
content was rife, which PS is back on TikTok in
a huge way, and I'm fundamentally so against that content
because it's so damaging to people. Side note, that's a
whole different episode've done on that. But I looked at
what she was eating, and she subscribed to a high fat,
high protein, low carb diet. So I was like, well,
(08:49):
she's doing type training that I'm doing, which means that
probably should be the way I'm eating. Obviously, we know
what works for one person doesn't work for anyone. If
that way of eating works for you, then great, do it.
But that doesn't mean you need to be scared of something.
And then when I swapped, like, I can't even explain
the amount of energy that I have. I'm not fatigued,
(09:09):
I'm not hungry. I don't have as much food noise
as I used to have in my mind, Like everything changed.
Plus the best thing of all about eating cabs is
you can eat more fucking food.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Yeah, I will say that I'm not fundamentally against what
I eat a day or anything like that, but it's
this thing of we as adults need to take responsibility
for what we're consuming, and it all comes down to, yes,
you started eating cabs right, And I personally think that, like,
I want to do it before and after of you,
(09:45):
because it is massive.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
There is a massive difference.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
And not that you weren't healthy before or you know anything,
you were obviously active, so on and so forth.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
But I remember these.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Conversations with you and even when you probably thought you
were eating caps because you're eating green beans, It's like no.
But the thing is is that, yeah, there's that shift.
You've really let a weight guilt left off you. And
that's what I think it all comes down to. You know,
most people's problems with health and fitness comes from this guilt.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
And we've talked about it before with people.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Thinking they need to train every day or do this,
and it's like no, Like, if you have a guilt
because you missed a day at the gym, that's what
we need to address, not you missing the day at
the gym. Like this guilt needs to be lifted and
then you can really start seeing results and benefiting from it.
And yeah, I think having the knowledge and I just
did this on a challenged thing on the weekend where
(10:36):
they came in and I said, what I need you
to understand is that if you're here right now and
you've ever said if you have ever said it, and
this I actually said to you, can I use you
as an example? And I didn't, but I feel like
you are a good example of if you've ever caught
yourself saying I know what to do, I'm just not
doing it.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
You don't know what you're doing. And that sounds really hard.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
But what I mean is you think you know, but
if you can't do it and you like or you
fall off and go, then it's not not right because
it shouldn't be like that. You shouldn't be I know it,
I just can't do it. That means you're not doing
what you should be doing or you haven't tried, and
you need to be open to that and open to
And I understand why.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah, we want to think it must be this special thing.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
It must be cutting carbs, it must be this because
it's so hard to stick to and that's why I
haven't seen results since you know, blahlah blah.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
But it's like that needs you to get rid.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Of that and just be open because I promise in
eight weeks you're going to be.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Like, oh, it's being honest with yourself. And it's like
that thing. I know, I posted this really weird convoluted
story series yesterday on my Instagram. But it's that thing
that when people start something new, they run like a
bullet a gate and they want to do everything at
two hundred percent, cutting everything, amplifying everything, and that's not
the way to do it.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, And I get the.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Like, I get the appeal of that, But when you
look at that and you go, Okay, if you've done
that before and you've restarted time and time again, look
at all the time that's accumulated that we're still spinning
your wheels and you're in the same space. Whereas you
give me eight weeks of just following a system that
I can provide you where it doesn't ever feel like
overwhelmingly a lot of changes at once in eight weeks,
(12:17):
you will you'll be a different person, and then you'll
continue that forever.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah. And I think back to what you said earlier
about being conscious of the type of content and information
you're consuming and from who remove yourself from those spaces.
And I know when I was in my keto and
I say keto with bunny ears because I would binge
drink on the weekend, which would take you straight out
of ketosis anyway. But at the time, my housemate was
(12:43):
one of those hardcore, like carnivorous guys. He owned a
couple of gyms, and he was the first importer of
that key tone supplement. Do you remember that powder?
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Nah, it was like.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
A pink powder, and he was the first one to
import them from overseas. And drinking this powder every day
in conjunction with not eating any carbs and I mean
no fruit, no veggies, know, nothing would magically put you
into ketosis. And the people who were buying that product
were buying it thinking that.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
That was that put up was the answer.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
But the answer for you being in keytosis was that
you weren't having any carbs.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
And so the second I remove myself from that as well,
I got so much clarity because I'd walk into the
kitchen and eat a banana and he'd be like, anyone
who tells you not to eat food can fuck right off.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
I just wanted to go over the I guess the
scientifical background of the carbohydrate thing to make sense of it.
So carbohydrates are our body's preferred source of fuel. So
basically carbohydrates are easily converted to glucose, and that's what
our body uses to do everything and what our brain
runs on any extra that we have that we're not
(13:57):
using strawede glycogen. Years later, fat is used like dietary fat,
we used to regulate our hormones. It helps with vimin
like uptake all those things, and then protein has used
muscle spearing, muscle repair, our recovery. So this comes back
to that I'm burning fat for fuel. Our body wants
to burn carbohydrates. It's the macronaturrean it'll choose to use
(14:20):
because it's easy and it gives us that instant boost.
Week it's good to go, brain can convert it.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
We're all good.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
In the removal the absence of carbohydrates, our body will
burn fat for fuel as in the dietary fat. So
we've used so just rather than so rather than using
the carbohydrates, it's going to use the fat that you're eating,
and if your calories are the same, it's going to
do the same thing. But it's just a shitter harder
(14:49):
process than if you use carbohydrates. So we're now you know,
going to use that like our fat will be turned
into basically fatty acids that it can use as energy.
And that's the way it works. Like it's not your
magically burning fat. You're burning the dietary fat because that's
where the energy is coming from calorie wise. But you're
(15:12):
let's say for instance, energy Okay, So say if you
wanted to come to tear Feet, you want to do
a training session with me, and you didn't eat carbohydrates,
so you ate fat. Your body is not going to
easily convert that to energy. It's going to be harder,
you'll be sluggish, so on and so forth. Your brain has
to have glucose, like, it has to have that, which
means your body.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Has to convert. You're you're really shaking a hit of
you with me because I'm thinking.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
I've shut out because I'm thinking about all the brain
fog I used to have and how much I used
to not be able to concentrate.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
So then you have to so then it basically converts
that into usable glucose. But it's like a metabolically chit
experience for your body to do that. And when people
are in actual ketosis and they you know, start to
produce ketones and they're using that as an energy source,
then you can start it's not so shit.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
You won't have so much brain fog. But it's not
that easy to be in that.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Like say, for instance, if you were eating low carb
during the week and then on the weekend you drunk alcolic,
You're never heading.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Gets everyone does they're doing a low carb diet or
I'm cutting carbs. I'm getting serious. Well, then put down
the fucking beer, put down the wine, put down the margs.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
People will often tell me the low carb they don't
eat bread? Why is breed? What people think is carbs?
I'm like, but then they'll drink wine. I'm like, do
you know what a carb is? And they don't, and
I'm like we can just like but so yeah, essentially,
you there's some absolutes when it comes to nutrition and training, right,
And I don't often like talking in absolutes, And I
(16:47):
often say go away from people that say absolutes because
it's a primitive scheme.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
But these are two things that are true.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
If you want to lose body fat, to gain or
lose weight, it's energy and energy out.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
And there's no argument on that.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Calorie deficit, calories and colories out, and people will people
that are like, that's not true, blah blah blah, even
the examples they give because they're like, what about your
hormones and pcos. It's like, yeah, that's still calories and
calories out because okay, so your calories out a lease
because of your hormonal things, like your energy output is least,
(17:21):
you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
So it still applies that energy.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
And energy out, and when it comes to training, it's
progressive overload has to happen and whatever manner that is.
But so when it comes to those that energy and
energy out, there's a million ways just gonna cat. You
can do that through low cap you can do that
through cannibal, you can do that through fucking whatever you
want to do. But to enjoy life and to get
(17:46):
the most out of it and feel good, which is
what I want for people. You want to choose the best,
like the one that causes the least confusion, makes you
feel better, you can stick to you.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Enjoy it one. You're not going to fluctuate up and
down when you start to you know, enjoy a wine
on the weekend, because there's nothing wrong with having a
drink on the weekend. I wasn't shitting on alcohol before
I was shitting on the contradictory nature of someone being like, oh,
I'm not going to have toast, but I'm going to
have this bottle of savoybi on the weekend.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
But this is and this is where it's different for everybody,
and everyone is different.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Like you know, you might find some people were actually
enjoy being low cup like they genuinely enjoy it. And
for some people with autoimmune or you know, skin issues
or whatever, you know, they could benefit from going into
a cute or receat or whatever. But for I would
say ninety eight percent of people, a balanced whole food
diet where you have some treats, there's no guilt with
(18:42):
it or whatever is going to be the best possible way.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
I couldn't agree more. And I know people shit on
me sometimes by thinking that I don't eat that stuff,
but I do. I do every single day because I've
made peace with it and I've I'm in this really
good place right now and it's just creating. And again
I'm not talking about the people who eat low carb
for health reasons, hormonal issues, whatever. I'm talking about the
people who don't eat it out of fear, which but
(19:07):
it creates this really convoluted mentality. And I look back
to even when I was eating lower to no carbs.
You won't eat oats for breakfast, but you'll put a
tablespoon of fucking butter in your coffee. You won't have,
you know, the bread basket when you go out to
lunch with your friends, but you'll drink coconut oil straight
(19:28):
from the jar.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
But the butter the bref coffee.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
I still haven't wrapped my head around because obviously adding
like three hundred calories into a coffee, it didn't make it.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
It still doesn't make sense to me.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
The mentality behind that is they're not thinking about it calorically.
They're thinking about it from the carbohydrate versus fat content,
and they're like, oh, but if I'm not eating carbs,
I'll still be skinny. But that arguably has more calories
than the bowl of oats.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Well, I guess the and I guess this is the
thing is that it would be say shating, I guess.
And then maybe because they were like hardcore. You know,
when you like get hardcore, you're like, yeah, you're like,
I'm not going to fucking eat It's kind of like
it's not necessary to have a protein shape within thirty
minutes if you work out for anabolic you know the
anabolic window. But I kind of don't mind people doing
(20:17):
that because I'm like, if someone works out and then
they go and have a protein shake, then the chances
of them eating bitter throughout the day because in this
kid space is probably better. So you know that is
correlation rather than causation, right, Like the correlation of that
is ending in the results we want. So cool because
you do have to work with people in that. But
(20:37):
a good example of this, and a good similar thing
is fastedst non fasted cardio and it comes.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
It's the same theory of this.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Carbs, cutting cabs not cutting caps, where I say, if
you cut your carbs, your body isn't burning body fat.
It's burning it's burning dietary well fat for fuel. And
then once it's gone through that, you start burning body fat.
That will happen no matter what your macronuture breakup is.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Once you're through your energy sources.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
So once your body has used whatever food it has
to use his energy, you go into your body fat.
So do whatever makeup of that is going to get
you there how you want to get there and happy.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
But when it comes to faster and non faster.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Back in the day, obviously they used to say you
do faster cardio because you burn fat when you're.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
There, A burn body fat.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
But so the reality of that, to look at it
simply is I don't eat before I If I wasn't
to eat before I went and trained, Okay, let's say
I had some glycogen from the day before stored. Whatever
I go train, I'm going to burn through that glycogen.
Maybe I'll touch on a little bit of body fat,
use it for fuel whatever. I then come home and
(21:46):
eat that food that I've just eaten and is then
used to replenish my glycogen stores. And you know, throughout
the day, if I eat the same as if I
had either way, then any extra stored is body fat
like what I use, So then it comes out same
same way even at the end. So if I, in comparison,
(22:07):
if I was to eat before I trained, when I
go and train, my body is going to use that
for fuel. So I have carbohydrates before, it's going to
use that as an immediate energy source. Maybe if I
get through that, I'm going to go into my glycogen.
So I haven't touched my body fat yet for fuel.
But then through the day, if my calories are the
same as the other example, well, now through the day
when I'm doing everyday stuff, it's going to then use
(22:28):
the body fat to fuel me right on things. Where
so at the end of the day it ends up
the same. You've used the same stuff, just in different
like you've gone through different things first. And the reality
is if you're going to train, you're exercising right, you're training,
You're going to get a better training session if you
are using an immediate energy source because obviously converting that
(22:51):
body fat it's hard, right, so your body is going
to be sluggish, you're gonna have so you're actually probably
burning less in your training session, in which case later
in the day.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah, I just need to say I never train fasted ever,
and I go to the five am class every single morning.
At four thirty am, I smash a banana, a whole banana,
not half a banana like TikTok will make you think
is enough of your carbs for the day. And I
love my four thirty am banana and my four thirty
(23:23):
am pre workout because I am training to maintain my
fitness and for performance. And to enjoy my workout. If
I don't have that before I train, for me personally,
I will have a sluggish ass workout. I'll stop halfway through,
I'll be tired, my stomach will be rumbling. But I
think again, because of that, the rise of like fasted
cardio and intermitute fasting and eating windows, people are again
(23:46):
just over complicating something and not using their own experiences
and being intentional with their own bodies. They're just looking
at what someone else who you might like their body
type is doing. But that's not necessarily benefiting you in
any way, shape or form.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Yeah, so if I was to train at five EM,
I wouldn't be able to eat, and I know that
for me. It's also why I don't train it five
EM because I need my performance to be high. So
I want to go into training sessions with food and
me I can't eat that early.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
So if I did, I would be fastered.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
But you know, it's like if you but then if
I went home and I ate afterwards, which I would,
that is then just replenishing what I you know what
I mean, But it's a slower shitter way of getting
you know, because I would have been bitter training after
the food, like because you'd be bitter off having a
(24:38):
slow process of your body having to get that fat
for fuel for you to use when you're at home
folding washing, you'd be bitter to you know, not have
the immediate thing when you're doing shit like that that
you don't have to perform and you can be a
bit sluggish as opposed to your workout.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Also, you don't have to be burning fat all the time.
It's not what.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
It's no And this is the same of diet all
the time. You know, if you've ever been in a
situation where you think, and that's why when people you
know come to me, I'm like, it's not always a
time to be losing at all.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
And ideally you want to get yourself. I just and
I don't think you need to be super.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
Data driven about it and know your macros all the
time and know all that. It's like you actually just
want to be able to live life. And again it
comes back to holistically removing that guilt. If I can
remove a guilt in terms of your training expectations and
your nutrition expectations, your life will change. And it sounds
so lame, but I'm like, look at you you remove
(25:40):
that and you look better than you've ever looked. And
not say you didn't look great before, but like you
I would consider you ripped. And you're eating now, I
thank fucking god, you know right, And obviously you still
eat very very healthy and very clean on what people
think things. But it's like, well that's not a bad
thing either. I don't think we need to be like, oh.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
You need to eat shit all the time. You eat
too clean.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
It's like, well, hang on a second, we still want
to put eating vigitis and broadin like that is what
we want as long as there's.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
No over the top absition with you know, eating this.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
No, like it's like diversifying your diet. And again I
think it's like that, probably more conversation around like the
gut microbiome, but making sure you're always eating different things
to keep feeding that gut microbiome because that's also how
you absorb food. So then you could go and eat
all the protein, all the vitamin B you want, But
if your gut's not working an optimal level, you're not
(26:37):
going to absorb any of the good shit from the
food anyway, and that's when you're going to get hormonal.
Imbalances and all this and all that. Like I used
to never I wouldn't touch oats, I wouldn't touch toast,
I wouldn't touch like you would not catch me dead
any one of those fropro pizzas. Now fucking love them.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
And this is well, I mean, we did chet recently.
I remember you saying you were having something.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
It might've been with your period, and I see add
a butter, Like start having butter because that is one
of the things as well, that like, that's where dietary
fat comes in, you know what I mean. And I
feel like you're very good with you at nutrition across
the board. But yet like I have a very high
fat diet because that's the food I like. I don't
struggle to hit that, so like I never have those issues.
(27:21):
But in the same regard, I then have to focus on,
say the proteinside, whereas you would never have to. I
feel like you wouldn't have to ever work to get
your protein up to you because everything's yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
No, I think it's yeah, the fat because I've had
issues with my period in the past when my fat's
been too low and then I have to up the fat.
But again, this conversation right here, right now is such
a perfect example of shutting out the food noise of
what other people are doing and knowing how you feel
the happiest and the best to make those decisions.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yeah, and I haven't seen this in this podcast because
I'm like, in my head, everybody already knows this, But
it actually always does surprise me that people don't cutting
out carbs. You cut out carbs, you're going to drop
weight dramatically fast. You will drop weight, no doubt about it.
It's water weight, it's not body it's not body fat.
You lose body weight, not body fats. Your body don't
(28:14):
look different, you might look a bit drained, but you
see that immediate thing. And that's where I said about that, Like,
you could do that for two weeks and probably get
the same benefit as if you tried to do it
for eight because after that initial waterweight, or even a
week after the initial waterweight, you're gonna be burning body
fat if you're in a deficit, So why not do
(28:34):
the one that feels better and gives you more energy
and makes you not a cume.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
And then I like to say that is something.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
That sorry, I've just never heard you drop it before.
In the podcast, It's okay, we have an explicit warning,
but again, that rhetoric feeds the toxic cycle. You cut
carbs for two weeks and you get shreddy looking arms
you could grape cheese on. But then a week later
when you reintroduce them, you're going to look the same
as you did the two weeks before. So why don't
you just figure out? You know that, I'm scene on
(29:03):
the Runaway Bride at the end when she runs away
and she's like, I can't do this again, and she
sits down and cooks eggs poached, fried, boiled, scrambled, and
she figures out on her own accord which egg style
she likes the best because she spent her whole life
eating the eggs that her partner likes to eat. And
I feel like that is the same thing. You can
spend your whole life trying every way of eating in
(29:26):
every diet that you see influences fitness professionals, whatever. There's
always going to be a diet because people are always
looking to sell their ebooks, sell their program, sell their
whatever it is. But you need to figure out a
way for you that feels the best. Because I feel like,
again it's longevity. Being fit ish is a lifestyle. It's
not a quick fix or a diet, and being fit
(29:49):
ish for the average person is more than enough one.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Hundred percent, one million fucking percined one million percent. Definitely
think about the times you have felt the beast in
your life, like, honestly beyond with yourself. When if you
felt the beast, you're eating fruits and vegetables and protein,
and you're exercising, not over the top, but you're are
being active. You know, these are the times when you
(30:14):
feel the beast.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
You're having some Easter eggs. It's like, my god, if
you haven't had the new Cadbury pineapple filled Easter eggs,
you are not leaving.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Is it pineapple lumps or this pineapple?
Speaker 2 (30:26):
It's like it's like, you know, in a snack bar,
how there's like the pineapple liquid.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
No, that sounds fucking disgusting. What are you talking about?
This is liquid in it. You're yucky, you're yucky, you're vulnerable.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
But it's like pineapple flavored. Have you ever had a
snack chocolate?
Speaker 1 (30:42):
No?
Speaker 3 (30:42):
And I'm morally opposed to what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
What in the it sounds gross?
Speaker 2 (30:47):
I'm bringing a block of snack.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Is it like film tasting pineapple? Yeah, no, I'm not
about it.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
It's delicious, but again which is rich because I eat
a lot of sweeter.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Anyway, we've been yapping for nearly an hours. So what
is one piece of advice you would give them to
everyone listening to this episode.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
I just not necessarily a piece of advice, but just
will remember that when you say you hear someone say
I'm burning fat for fuel, they mean that burning food
for energy, not that they're burning body fat. And you
can achieve the burning body fat for fuel within the
macro nutriment, including carbohydrates in your diet, and you'll feel
better and not bitcamp.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
And I'm just going to roll off the back of
that and say stay carbo hydrate dings. Welcome back to
the pod. Thank you so much for listening. Guys. I
really hope you enjoyed the episode, and don't forget to
help a sister out by following the podcast on Apple
or on Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
(31:46):
Rate it, write me a review, and if you want
more finish, we do have a private Facebook group. There
is going to be exclusive Q and A is happening
with my guests in that group. That's going to be events,
going life first, so much fun stuff happening. Just look
up fit ish in brackets on Facebook and you can
be part of the Finish online community
Appod Shake Production.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
Welcome to fit Ish. I'm Phoebe Parsons and this is
the podcast that proves that you don't have to choose
between staying fit and having fun. Welcome back to the
podcast pet Professional Athlete, Boxing Queen and my bestie MICHAELA. Costello.
Speaker 3 (00:28):
That was a great intro, but I really hope the
one you did before that makes onto the podcast.
Speaker 1 (00:33):
It was atrocious.
Speaker 3 (00:34):
I've once said the bye did the vomit sound?
Speaker 1 (00:37):
It was a lot.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
I really I hope that everybody listening gets to see
the footage of what just happened. And then you weirdly
being nervous around me when we hang out so much,
and we pretty much took twenty three out of twenty
four hours a day on several platforms.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
I'm sweating and I'm not sure if it's because of
what just happened or because the lights that are absolutely
beaming down on us right now.
Speaker 3 (00:59):
And you shdio is nice. Look, thank you for having me.
And this is a topic. I'm actually very happy to
be here talk about this, and very It's a timely
one because I've had this come up recently with a
client so.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
Well, I mean, as the title suggests people will know
that today we are chatting about carbs and more specifically
why they are not the enemy. And I want to
do a little bit of a look back and a
bit of a reflection because I used to be terrified
of carbs, as so many people were. But one of
the things that really never ceases to amaze me about
you is how well adjusted you are, particularly around food
(01:34):
and nutrition. But I didn't know you and your teens,
so I don't know if you've been through this, especially
because you have a background in bodybuilding and I know
that that can really fuck you up mentally. Have you
ever been in kind of that like fad diet, scared
of carbs era in your life? No, Evertually, I feel
very blessed for my Obviously, this is like deep seated
(01:56):
things that we have right that we're like good at
and I'm when it comes to.
Speaker 1 (02:01):
Food or nutrition, I'm very very little.
Speaker 3 (02:05):
He had very balanced and I've never I've definitely been
through terrible Like we all grew up with Woman's Weekly
and whatever it was that was like over the top
of the nineties right and early two thousands, So obviously
I had that pressure. I had a mum who was,
you know, diagnosed anderyxic, like we had weird things. But
given that, I'm yeah, I'm very balanced and have a
(02:26):
good approach, and hopefully I like to think that I'm
able to give people that as well.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
One hundred percent. I mean, you changed the game for me,
But I want to go back one step because I
feel like it's something that was ingrained in us since
we grew up. Obviously our parents and totally honestly, and
it's not their fault because they didn't know any better
because they were being fed this false information and they
they were in their early adulthood in the era of
(02:53):
Atkins and low carbon no carbon. I specifically remember one
time as a teenager, and this is no shade to
my mum, because I think a lot of the Warrens
were like this, and she is an angel, but I
remember having do you remember jaffle makers? You have a
jaffle maker, and I would make like a toasted sandwich
and I put a tin of spaghetti in there, and
I was eating a delicious tin spaghetti jaffle fucking yum.
(03:15):
And my mom came into the kitchen and she's like, hmm,
interesting choice cabs on cabs Maybe next time you should
pop some baked beans in there. And I was horrified,
And in my mind that is the first memory I
have of being like, oh, cabs aren't actually a good
thing for me to be eating.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
We were specifically told. And it's so funny because when
I say this as a joke at the club, anybody
in my age group is like, yes, any girl in
my age group. My mom being like, cut that pastor
will make you as big as a house. That was
quote unquote mum ever the time, and I actually think,
do you know what? And I want to say that
me and my mum have an amazing relationship. We have
very very great relationship.
Speaker 1 (03:54):
Boss.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
She's the beast and I love her, and especially since
I've become a mum, you can see how things happen.
Speaker 1 (03:59):
But I think the fact that we.
Speaker 3 (04:00):
Had a strained relationship when I was growing up probably
the reason why, because anytime she said something like say that,
or if she was because she was so weird with food,
I'm just like, I guess I'll probably push back on
that note towards here, but like in myself to be
like no, whereas you know, I just wow, I've probably
(04:23):
went too deep there. But I actually like I think
for me, I'm like that. I always do wonder how
I have managed that, because I feel very lucky to
not have this guilt asso shared with food, because psychologically,
for I would say ninety five percent of people, that
is everything and I kind of don't have that, or
at least when I am being I'm very well aware
(04:43):
of it.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
Yeah, I think that might be why wow, what a great.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
The right way to start, But no, I want to
roll off the back of that because I truly, truly
believe I've been thinking about this a lot in the
last couple of days and the lead up to having
this chart, because I think I've spoken very surface level
about this kind of stuff before. But I think that
for so many of us, it's a learned behavior or
a learned thought pattern. It's not something that we chose
(05:09):
for ourselves because we saw it in our moms. We
saw it in magazines, we saw it on movies and
in TV shows like that was always a narrative. Carbs
are always bad if you were like the skinny, pretty
main character energy in a movie. And I don't think
anybody purposely stayed away from them because of their own
experience with them. You stayed away from them because of
the narrative that was built around carbs, and I think
(05:32):
that is so much of people's early adulthood and early
experience with diets, as you're not making the decision based
on the experience you've had with something, it's based off
what you've seen other people doing.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
But that's also that's everything in life, right.
Speaker 3 (05:44):
It's like when you know people tend to vote the
way their parents vote or whatever. It's like, even if
you instinctively think you make those choices, we go by
what we've been surrounded by. And that's what's so important
what we consume. And you know, it's obviously a running joke.
I'm not on TikTok and I like to think of
a big deal on its green, but like you have
to beat TikTok has really with the health and fitness
(06:08):
space bringing back very very bad culture because it's these
clips that are so sure and not that instagrams are
not the same, but it's just different.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Purpose Like what works.
Speaker 3 (06:19):
On there is different, and people sound very academic, and
they sound very trustworthy, and they sound so scientific and
they know what they're saying and they use big words.
Speaker 2 (06:27):
But the.
Speaker 3 (06:29):
Meshing that data in a way that goes with the
narrative they want to put out there, and then people
are sharing it. It gets and I feel that there
is a rise again. I actually thought we were through
this with the carbohydrates, and now it's prevalent again. And
the one thing, if you're I should have seen this
the first second i'd started this podcast. But if you
only get to this point and this is what you hear,
(06:50):
I need you to hear this. When they say when
it comes to cutting your carbs, I'm burning fat for fuel.
That doesn't mean body fat, that means dietary fat. You
are burning fat as your fuel source, which is hard
fuel source compared to carbohydrates. But that's what they mean.
They don't It does not mean I'm burning fat for
fuel like body fat for fuel. There's two distinct differences.
(07:14):
We can get into that, but it's so important. Please
never hear that, because that's so appealing. I'm burning body
fat for fuel. Oh, everyone wants we want a magic pill.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I get it.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
It's the quick fix mentality.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
And now it's hard for me to say this because
of those impic but if there was a magic pill,
Oprah would be fucking skinny. And she would have been
skinny for a long time, Like how many fair diets
has she been on? That bit is so rich, Like
if that existed, that you could pay for something that
does it, she would have done it a long time ago. Again,
a zimp probably is that magic pill. We finally found it,
(07:45):
but you know one hundred percent.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
And I feel like, okay, firstly, if you're stop stopping listening,
now grow up and listen to the rest, because this
is a really good episode. And secondly, when I started
eating carbs, probably like really consistently, I would say two
years ago, I kind of started back into my journey.
I have never been more I want to say riped,
because I wouldn't describe myself as a ripped person, but
(08:07):
I have never been in better shape physically or mentally.
And that is the most important part for me. But
it took me a while to get here because again,
when I was getting really serious about fitness and I
was starting out doing my instructive training courses and things
like that, I was very in the Les Miles world,
and there was this one master trainer in particular who
(08:28):
was very open about what she ate. And that's when
what I eat in what I ate in the day
content was rife, which PS is back on TikTok in
a huge way, and I'm fundamentally so against that content
because it's so damaging to people. Side note, that's a
whole different episode've done on that. But I looked at
what she was eating, and she subscribed to a high fat,
high protein, low carb diet. So I was like, well,
(08:49):
she's doing type training that I'm doing, which means that
probably should be the way I'm eating. Obviously, we know
what works for one person doesn't work for anyone. If
that way of eating works for you, then great, do it.
But that doesn't mean you need to be scared of something.
And then when I swapped, like, I can't even explain
the amount of energy that I have. I'm not fatigued,
(09:09):
I'm not hungry. I don't have as much food noise
as I used to have in my mind, Like everything changed.
Plus the best thing of all about eating cabs is
you can eat more fucking food.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
Yeah, I will say that I'm not fundamentally against what
I eat a day or anything like that, but it's
this thing of we as adults need to take responsibility
for what we're consuming, and it all comes down to, yes,
you started eating cabs right, And I personally think that, like,
I want to do it before and after of you,
(09:45):
because it is massive.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
There is a massive difference.
Speaker 3 (09:47):
And not that you weren't healthy before or you know anything,
you were obviously active, so on and so forth.
Speaker 1 (09:52):
But I remember these.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Conversations with you and even when you probably thought you
were eating caps because you're eating green beans, It's like no.
But the thing is is that, yeah, there's that shift.
You've really let a weight guilt left off you. And
that's what I think it all comes down to. You know,
most people's problems with health and fitness comes from this guilt.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
And we've talked about it before with people.
Speaker 3 (10:14):
Thinking they need to train every day or do this,
and it's like no, Like, if you have a guilt
because you missed a day at the gym, that's what
we need to address, not you missing the day at
the gym. Like this guilt needs to be lifted and
then you can really start seeing results and benefiting from it.
And yeah, I think having the knowledge and I just
did this on a challenged thing on the weekend where
(10:36):
they came in and I said, what I need you
to understand is that if you're here right now and
you've ever said if you have ever said it, and
this I actually said to you, can I use you
as an example? And I didn't, but I feel like
you are a good example of if you've ever caught
yourself saying I know what to do, I'm just not
doing it.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
You don't know what you're doing. And that sounds really hard.
Speaker 3 (10:57):
But what I mean is you think you know, but
if you can't do it and you like or you
fall off and go, then it's not not right because
it shouldn't be like that. You shouldn't be I know it,
I just can't do it. That means you're not doing
what you should be doing or you haven't tried, and
you need to be open to that and open to
And I understand why.
Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah, we want to think it must be this special thing.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
It must be cutting carbs, it must be this because
it's so hard to stick to and that's why I
haven't seen results since you know, blahlah blah.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
But it's like that needs you to get rid.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Of that and just be open because I promise in
eight weeks you're going to be.
Speaker 2 (11:31):
Like, oh, it's being honest with yourself. And it's like
that thing. I know, I posted this really weird convoluted
story series yesterday on my Instagram. But it's that thing
that when people start something new, they run like a
bullet a gate and they want to do everything at
two hundred percent, cutting everything, amplifying everything, and that's not
the way to do it.
Speaker 1 (11:53):
Yeah, And I get the.
Speaker 3 (11:56):
Like, I get the appeal of that, But when you
look at that and you go, Okay, if you've done
that before and you've restarted time and time again, look
at all the time that's accumulated that we're still spinning
your wheels and you're in the same space. Whereas you
give me eight weeks of just following a system that
I can provide you where it doesn't ever feel like
overwhelmingly a lot of changes at once in eight weeks,
(12:17):
you will you'll be a different person, and then you'll
continue that forever.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Yeah. And I think back to what you said earlier
about being conscious of the type of content and information
you're consuming and from who remove yourself from those spaces.
And I know when I was in my keto and
I say keto with bunny ears because I would binge
drink on the weekend, which would take you straight out
of ketosis anyway. But at the time, my housemate was
(12:43):
one of those hardcore, like carnivorous guys. He owned a
couple of gyms, and he was the first importer of
that key tone supplement. Do you remember that powder?
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Nah, it was like.
Speaker 2 (12:54):
A pink powder, and he was the first one to
import them from overseas. And drinking this powder every day
in conjunction with not eating any carbs and I mean
no fruit, no veggies, know, nothing would magically put you
into ketosis. And the people who were buying that product
were buying it thinking that.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
That was that put up was the answer.
Speaker 2 (13:16):
But the answer for you being in keytosis was that
you weren't having any carbs.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
And so the second I remove myself from that as well,
I got so much clarity because I'd walk into the
kitchen and eat a banana and he'd be like, anyone
who tells you not to eat food can fuck right off.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
I just wanted to go over the I guess the
scientifical background of the carbohydrate thing to make sense of it.
So carbohydrates are our body's preferred source of fuel. So
basically carbohydrates are easily converted to glucose, and that's what
our body uses to do everything and what our brain
runs on any extra that we have that we're not
(13:57):
using strawede glycogen. Years later, fat is used like dietary fat,
we used to regulate our hormones. It helps with vimin
like uptake all those things, and then protein has used
muscle spearing, muscle repair, our recovery. So this comes back
to that I'm burning fat for fuel. Our body wants
to burn carbohydrates. It's the macronaturrean it'll choose to use
(14:20):
because it's easy and it gives us that instant boost.
Week it's good to go, brain can convert it.
Speaker 1 (14:25):
We're all good.
Speaker 3 (14:26):
In the removal the absence of carbohydrates, our body will
burn fat for fuel as in the dietary fat. So
we've used so just rather than so rather than using
the carbohydrates, it's going to use the fat that you're eating,
and if your calories are the same, it's going to
do the same thing. But it's just a shitter harder
(14:49):
process than if you use carbohydrates. So we're now you know,
going to use that like our fat will be turned
into basically fatty acids that it can use as energy.
And that's the way it works. Like it's not your
magically burning fat. You're burning the dietary fat because that's
where the energy is coming from calorie wise. But you're
(15:12):
let's say for instance, energy Okay, So say if you
wanted to come to tear Feet, you want to do
a training session with me, and you didn't eat carbohydrates,
so you ate fat. Your body is not going to
easily convert that to energy. It's going to be harder,
you'll be sluggish, so on and so forth. Your brain has
to have glucose, like, it has to have that, which
means your body.
Speaker 1 (15:32):
Has to convert. You're you're really shaking a hit of
you with me because I'm thinking.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
I've shut out because I'm thinking about all the brain
fog I used to have and how much I used
to not be able to concentrate.
Speaker 3 (15:46):
So then you have to so then it basically converts
that into usable glucose. But it's like a metabolically chit
experience for your body to do that. And when people
are in actual ketosis and they you know, start to
produce ketones and they're using that as an energy source,
then you can start it's not so shit.
Speaker 1 (16:06):
You won't have so much brain fog. But it's not
that easy to be in that.
Speaker 3 (16:11):
Like say, for instance, if you were eating low carb
during the week and then on the weekend you drunk alcolic,
You're never heading.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
Gets everyone does they're doing a low carb diet or
I'm cutting carbs. I'm getting serious. Well, then put down
the fucking beer, put down the wine, put down the margs.
Speaker 3 (16:25):
People will often tell me the low carb they don't
eat bread? Why is breed? What people think is carbs?
I'm like, but then they'll drink wine. I'm like, do
you know what a carb is? And they don't, and
I'm like we can just like but so yeah, essentially,
you there's some absolutes when it comes to nutrition and training, right,
And I don't often like talking in absolutes, And I
(16:47):
often say go away from people that say absolutes because
it's a primitive scheme.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
But these are two things that are true.
Speaker 3 (16:54):
If you want to lose body fat, to gain or
lose weight, it's energy and energy out.
Speaker 1 (16:59):
And there's no argument on that.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Calorie deficit, calories and colories out, and people will people
that are like, that's not true, blah blah blah, even
the examples they give because they're like, what about your
hormones and pcos. It's like, yeah, that's still calories and
calories out because okay, so your calories out a lease
because of your hormonal things, like your energy output is least,
(17:21):
you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (17:22):
So it still applies that energy.
Speaker 3 (17:25):
And energy out, and when it comes to training, it's
progressive overload has to happen and whatever manner that is.
But so when it comes to those that energy and
energy out, there's a million ways just gonna cat. You
can do that through low cap you can do that
through cannibal, you can do that through fucking whatever you
want to do. But to enjoy life and to get
(17:46):
the most out of it and feel good, which is
what I want for people. You want to choose the best,
like the one that causes the least confusion, makes you
feel better, you can stick to you.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Enjoy it one. You're not going to fluctuate up and
down when you start to you know, enjoy a wine
on the weekend, because there's nothing wrong with having a
drink on the weekend. I wasn't shitting on alcohol before
I was shitting on the contradictory nature of someone being like, oh,
I'm not going to have toast, but I'm going to
have this bottle of savoybi on the weekend.
Speaker 1 (18:16):
But this is and this is where it's different for everybody,
and everyone is different.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
Like you know, you might find some people were actually
enjoy being low cup like they genuinely enjoy it. And
for some people with autoimmune or you know, skin issues
or whatever, you know, they could benefit from going into
a cute or receat or whatever. But for I would
say ninety eight percent of people, a balanced whole food
diet where you have some treats, there's no guilt with
(18:42):
it or whatever is going to be the best possible way.
Speaker 2 (18:46):
I couldn't agree more. And I know people shit on
me sometimes by thinking that I don't eat that stuff,
but I do. I do every single day because I've
made peace with it and I've I'm in this really
good place right now and it's just creating. And again
I'm not talking about the people who eat low carb
for health reasons, hormonal issues, whatever. I'm talking about the
people who don't eat it out of fear, which but
(19:07):
it creates this really convoluted mentality. And I look back
to even when I was eating lower to no carbs.
You won't eat oats for breakfast, but you'll put a
tablespoon of fucking butter in your coffee. You won't have,
you know, the bread basket when you go out to
lunch with your friends, but you'll drink coconut oil straight
(19:28):
from the jar.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
But the butter the bref coffee.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
I still haven't wrapped my head around because obviously adding
like three hundred calories into a coffee, it didn't make it.
Speaker 1 (19:40):
It still doesn't make sense to me.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
The mentality behind that is they're not thinking about it calorically.
They're thinking about it from the carbohydrate versus fat content,
and they're like, oh, but if I'm not eating carbs,
I'll still be skinny. But that arguably has more calories
than the bowl of oats.
Speaker 3 (19:56):
Well, I guess the and I guess this is the
thing is that it would be say shating, I guess.
And then maybe because they were like hardcore. You know,
when you like get hardcore, you're like, yeah, you're like,
I'm not going to fucking eat It's kind of like
it's not necessary to have a protein shape within thirty
minutes if you work out for anabolic you know the
anabolic window. But I kind of don't mind people doing
(20:17):
that because I'm like, if someone works out and then
they go and have a protein shake, then the chances
of them eating bitter throughout the day because in this
kid space is probably better. So you know that is
correlation rather than causation, right, Like the correlation of that
is ending in the results we want. So cool because
you do have to work with people in that. But
(20:37):
a good example of this, and a good similar thing
is fastedst non fasted cardio and it comes.
Speaker 1 (20:45):
It's the same theory of this.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Carbs, cutting cabs not cutting caps, where I say, if
you cut your carbs, your body isn't burning body fat.
It's burning it's burning dietary well fat for fuel. And
then once it's gone through that, you start burning body fat.
That will happen no matter what your macronuture breakup is.
Speaker 1 (21:05):
Once you're through your energy sources.
Speaker 3 (21:07):
So once your body has used whatever food it has
to use his energy, you go into your body fat.
So do whatever makeup of that is going to get
you there how you want to get there and happy.
Speaker 1 (21:18):
But when it comes to faster and non faster.
Speaker 3 (21:20):
Back in the day, obviously they used to say you
do faster cardio because you burn fat when you're.
Speaker 1 (21:25):
There, A burn body fat.
Speaker 3 (21:26):
But so the reality of that, to look at it
simply is I don't eat before I If I wasn't
to eat before I went and trained, Okay, let's say
I had some glycogen from the day before stored. Whatever
I go train, I'm going to burn through that glycogen.
Maybe I'll touch on a little bit of body fat,
use it for fuel whatever. I then come home and
(21:46):
eat that food that I've just eaten and is then
used to replenish my glycogen stores. And you know, throughout
the day, if I eat the same as if I
had either way, then any extra stored is body fat
like what I use, So then it comes out same
same way even at the end. So if I, in comparison,
(22:07):
if I was to eat before I trained, when I
go and train, my body is going to use that
for fuel. So I have carbohydrates before, it's going to
use that as an immediate energy source. Maybe if I
get through that, I'm going to go into my glycogen.
So I haven't touched my body fat yet for fuel.
But then through the day, if my calories are the
same as the other example, well, now through the day
when I'm doing everyday stuff, it's going to then use
(22:28):
the body fat to fuel me right on things. Where
so at the end of the day it ends up
the same. You've used the same stuff, just in different
like you've gone through different things first. And the reality
is if you're going to train, you're exercising right, you're training,
You're going to get a better training session if you
are using an immediate energy source because obviously converting that
(22:51):
body fat it's hard, right, so your body is going
to be sluggish, you're gonna have so you're actually probably
burning less in your training session, in which case later
in the day.
Speaker 2 (23:01):
Yeah, I just need to say I never train fasted ever,
and I go to the five am class every single morning.
At four thirty am, I smash a banana, a whole banana,
not half a banana like TikTok will make you think
is enough of your carbs for the day. And I
love my four thirty am banana and my four thirty
(23:23):
am pre workout because I am training to maintain my
fitness and for performance. And to enjoy my workout. If
I don't have that before I train, for me personally,
I will have a sluggish ass workout. I'll stop halfway through,
I'll be tired, my stomach will be rumbling. But I
think again, because of that, the rise of like fasted
cardio and intermitute fasting and eating windows, people are again
(23:46):
just over complicating something and not using their own experiences
and being intentional with their own bodies. They're just looking
at what someone else who you might like their body
type is doing. But that's not necessarily benefiting you in
any way, shape or form.
Speaker 3 (24:02):
Yeah, so if I was to train at five EM,
I wouldn't be able to eat, and I know that
for me. It's also why I don't train it five
EM because I need my performance to be high. So
I want to go into training sessions with food and
me I can't eat that early.
Speaker 1 (24:16):
So if I did, I would be fastered.
Speaker 3 (24:17):
But you know, it's like if you but then if
I went home and I ate afterwards, which I would,
that is then just replenishing what I you know what
I mean, But it's a slower shitter way of getting
you know, because I would have been bitter training after
the food, like because you'd be bitter off having a
(24:38):
slow process of your body having to get that fat
for fuel for you to use when you're at home
folding washing, you'd be bitter to you know, not have
the immediate thing when you're doing shit like that that
you don't have to perform and you can be a
bit sluggish as opposed to your workout.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Also, you don't have to be burning fat all the time.
It's not what.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
It's no And this is the same of diet all
the time. You know, if you've ever been in a
situation where you think, and that's why when people you
know come to me, I'm like, it's not always a
time to be losing at all.
Speaker 1 (25:15):
And ideally you want to get yourself. I just and
I don't think you need to be super.
Speaker 3 (25:19):
Data driven about it and know your macros all the
time and know all that. It's like you actually just
want to be able to live life. And again it
comes back to holistically removing that guilt. If I can
remove a guilt in terms of your training expectations and
your nutrition expectations, your life will change. And it sounds
so lame, but I'm like, look at you you remove
(25:40):
that and you look better than you've ever looked. And
not say you didn't look great before, but like you
I would consider you ripped. And you're eating now, I
thank fucking god, you know right, And obviously you still
eat very very healthy and very clean on what people
think things. But it's like, well that's not a bad
thing either. I don't think we need to be like, oh.
Speaker 1 (26:01):
You need to eat shit all the time. You eat
too clean.
Speaker 3 (26:03):
It's like, well, hang on a second, we still want
to put eating vigitis and broadin like that is what
we want as long as there's.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
No over the top absition with you know, eating this.
Speaker 2 (26:16):
No, like it's like diversifying your diet. And again I
think it's like that, probably more conversation around like the
gut microbiome, but making sure you're always eating different things
to keep feeding that gut microbiome because that's also how
you absorb food. So then you could go and eat
all the protein, all the vitamin B you want, But
if your gut's not working an optimal level, you're not
(26:37):
going to absorb any of the good shit from the
food anyway, and that's when you're going to get hormonal.
Imbalances and all this and all that. Like I used
to never I wouldn't touch oats, I wouldn't touch toast,
I wouldn't touch like you would not catch me dead
any one of those fropro pizzas. Now fucking love them.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
And this is well, I mean, we did chet recently.
I remember you saying you were having something.
Speaker 3 (27:00):
It might've been with your period, and I see add
a butter, Like start having butter because that is one
of the things as well, that like, that's where dietary
fat comes in, you know what I mean. And I
feel like you're very good with you at nutrition across
the board. But yet like I have a very high
fat diet because that's the food I like. I don't
struggle to hit that, so like I never have those issues.
(27:21):
But in the same regard, I then have to focus on,
say the proteinside, whereas you would never have to. I
feel like you wouldn't have to ever work to get
your protein up to you because everything's yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
No, I think it's yeah, the fat because I've had
issues with my period in the past when my fat's
been too low and then I have to up the fat.
But again, this conversation right here, right now is such
a perfect example of shutting out the food noise of
what other people are doing and knowing how you feel
the happiest and the best to make those decisions.
Speaker 3 (27:53):
Yeah, and I haven't seen this in this podcast because
I'm like, in my head, everybody already knows this, But
it actually always does surprise me that people don't cutting
out carbs. You cut out carbs, you're going to drop
weight dramatically fast. You will drop weight, no doubt about it.
It's water weight, it's not body it's not body fat.
You lose body weight, not body fats. Your body don't
(28:14):
look different, you might look a bit drained, but you
see that immediate thing. And that's where I said about that, Like,
you could do that for two weeks and probably get
the same benefit as if you tried to do it
for eight because after that initial waterweight, or even a
week after the initial waterweight, you're gonna be burning body
fat if you're in a deficit, So why not do
(28:34):
the one that feels better and gives you more energy
and makes you not a cume.
Speaker 1 (28:38):
And then I like to say that is something.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
That sorry, I've just never heard you drop it before.
In the podcast, It's okay, we have an explicit warning,
but again, that rhetoric feeds the toxic cycle. You cut
carbs for two weeks and you get shreddy looking arms
you could grape cheese on. But then a week later
when you reintroduce them, you're going to look the same
as you did the two weeks before. So why don't
you just figure out? You know that, I'm scene on
(29:03):
the Runaway Bride at the end when she runs away
and she's like, I can't do this again, and she
sits down and cooks eggs poached, fried, boiled, scrambled, and
she figures out on her own accord which egg style
she likes the best because she spent her whole life
eating the eggs that her partner likes to eat. And
I feel like that is the same thing. You can
spend your whole life trying every way of eating in
(29:26):
every diet that you see influences fitness professionals, whatever. There's
always going to be a diet because people are always
looking to sell their ebooks, sell their program, sell their
whatever it is. But you need to figure out a
way for you that feels the best. Because I feel like,
again it's longevity. Being fit ish is a lifestyle. It's
not a quick fix or a diet, and being fit
(29:49):
ish for the average person is more than enough one.
Speaker 3 (29:53):
Hundred percent, one million fucking percined one million percent. Definitely
think about the times you have felt the beast in
your life, like, honestly beyond with yourself. When if you
felt the beast, you're eating fruits and vegetables and protein,
and you're exercising, not over the top, but you're are
being active. You know, these are the times when you
(30:14):
feel the beast.
Speaker 2 (30:15):
You're having some Easter eggs. It's like, my god, if
you haven't had the new Cadbury pineapple filled Easter eggs,
you are not leaving.
Speaker 1 (30:24):
Is it pineapple lumps or this pineapple?
Speaker 2 (30:26):
It's like it's like, you know, in a snack bar,
how there's like the pineapple liquid.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
No, that sounds fucking disgusting. What are you talking about?
This is liquid in it. You're yucky, you're yucky, you're vulnerable.
Speaker 2 (30:38):
But it's like pineapple flavored. Have you ever had a
snack chocolate?
Speaker 1 (30:42):
No?
Speaker 3 (30:42):
And I'm morally opposed to what you're saying.
Speaker 1 (30:45):
What in the it sounds gross?
Speaker 2 (30:47):
I'm bringing a block of snack.
Speaker 1 (30:49):
Is it like film tasting pineapple? Yeah, no, I'm not
about it.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
It's delicious, but again which is rich because I eat
a lot of sweeter.
Speaker 1 (30:59):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (30:59):
Anyway, we've been yapping for nearly an hours. So what
is one piece of advice you would give them to
everyone listening to this episode.
Speaker 3 (31:05):
I just not necessarily a piece of advice, but just
will remember that when you say you hear someone say
I'm burning fat for fuel, they mean that burning food
for energy, not that they're burning body fat. And you
can achieve the burning body fat for fuel within the
macro nutriment, including carbohydrates in your diet, and you'll feel
better and not bitcamp.
Speaker 2 (31:23):
And I'm just going to roll off the back of
that and say stay carbo hydrate dings. Welcome back to
the pod. Thank you so much for listening. Guys. I
really hope you enjoyed the episode, and don't forget to
help a sister out by following the podcast on Apple
or on Spotify or wherever you listen to your podcasts.
(31:46):
Rate it, write me a review, and if you want
more finish, we do have a private Facebook group. There
is going to be exclusive Q and A is happening
with my guests in that group. That's going to be events,
going life first, so much fun stuff happening. Just look
up fit ish in brackets on Facebook and you can
be part of the Finish online community
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