May 12, 2025 • 36 mins
Ever whispered a period question into Google at 2am? You’re not alone.This week on FIT(ish), Phoebe Parsons is joined by women’s health expert and hormone whisperer Nat Kringoudis to answer all the period questions you've definitely wondered about—but never felt brave enough to ask. From weird clots and spotting to syncing with your bestie (is that even real?), no topic is off limits. It's the no-BS period chat we all needed growing up—TMI included.
Get ready to laugh, learn, and finally feel normal about what your uterus is up to.LOVE THE PODCAST? Don't forget to follow FIT(ish) on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts and write a review.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Apogee Production, Confessions of a train Wreck, Dirty thirty and Surviving.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
It's easy to big out out the way I live
that it is a training foreign character. I was ermons
in my dit genes in my training for interesting.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Commandment number two hundred and two, thou shall remember that
there's no such thing as a silly question. I'm the
first person to admit that I'm a classic oversharer, which
is why I love nothing more than chatting to other oversharers,
particularly about interesting topics, and in my not so humble opinion,
(01:02):
there's nothing more interesting than some good old period chat.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Now. I've done many episodes about this in my time.
Speaker 5 (01:10):
I've chatted about pms, I've waxed circle about ENDO, but
never have I ever asked Tammi taboo questions that we're
all thinking but no one's saying.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Think of this episode like an audio version of Dolly.
Speaker 5 (01:23):
Doctor, but instead of hearing answers from someone who's probably
an intern, we're getting them from Nat kring goutis a
two time best selling author, podcaster, and female health practitioner
who I could honestly chat to for hours. Welcome back
to the podcast, Nat, I am so excited to have
you back. You've been on a couple of times now,
(01:44):
but I'm really especially scited to talk to you today
about periods, which is literally one of my favorite things
to talk about.
Speaker 6 (01:50):
Well, thank you so much for having me, and periods
are something I talk about every day, so I think
we're in the right place.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
Then, my god, Well you will love my first question
for you there.
Speaker 5 (02:00):
But I was just going to start by saying, firstly,
as someone who's got endmitrosis and over insists, a lot
of my day to day conversations are about periods, and
I'm also quite passionate about trying to kind of end
the stigma and you know, period shame in general, because
there is absolutely no shame to be had in it whatsoever.
And I'm pretty lucky in that I've only ever experienced
period shame kind of once from an next partner. But
(02:22):
I'm very open and close to my mum and my
sister and all of my girlfriends. But I know there
are some girls and women out there who might not
have that. So I kind of want this episode today
just to be there for the people that might not
necessarily have that.
Speaker 7 (02:34):
I love that so much, so I feel like this.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
Is going to be an audio version kind of Dolly Doctor.
But I wanted to ask you today some TMI period
questions that I feel like maybe people have always had
in the back of their mind, but they might be
too scared to ask people the actual answers to these questions.
Speaker 7 (02:51):
I'm here for it.
Speaker 6 (02:52):
I love it sounds like you know, I mean, I
wanted a sealed section in my last book. I wanted
a sealed section like the Dolly Doctor because I just, oh,
how much did we love a Dolly Doctor back in
the day?
Speaker 7 (03:03):
And I wanted to put in there.
Speaker 6 (03:05):
We have got a Q and a section in there,
and I wanted to put all those questions in there,
like the things that you want to anonymously ask that
you've always been too scared to find out the answer,
or you've been embarrassed to ask your GP or your
mum or whoever.
Speaker 7 (03:19):
So fire away.
Speaker 5 (03:21):
Yes, this is going to be like the trend going
around Instagram at the moment, the anonymous ask me anything.
But this is not anonymous. It's very very public and
I'm not ashamed. So the first question is why do
you poop so much when you have your period? And
this is something that I've openly discussed with girlfriends, and
we often call them period poops. But as if it's
(03:42):
not enough that you're already feeling quite full and bloated
when you have your period, but then for the first
couple of days you.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Poop a lot.
Speaker 6 (03:49):
What you probably have noticed, I hope, is that in
the lead up to the period, your bows don't really
move as much as they ordinarily do, so when the
flood gates open, they literally open, and it can be
you know, it's due to several factors, and not everybody
experiences this, and I think it's very common for women
(04:10):
with endometriosis or any type of pelvic stagnation or congestion
that could just be scarring. It might be cysts, although
you know, yeah, cysts that can take up room anything
that's competing for real estate, You've got to think about
what's going on there. It's only so much that can
fit for starters. So and also due to the changes
(04:32):
in hormones that happen as well. So you know, when
we see the change in hormones and we start to
see things spike, there's different functions that happen. There's relaxation
that happens, there's increased activity and energy that happens. So
it is very common that we do see at the
onset of the period, we do see looser vowels. But
(04:54):
also what aggravates the uterus aggravates the bowels. So I'm
not advocating for this, but this is why women traditionally
may have turned to cast or oil during pregnancy to bring
on a baby, is because by aggravating their bow they
were also aggravating their uterus, and therefore that would get
the uterine contractions happening. So they do receive the same
(05:16):
nerve innovation, and they are very much connected. And it
is important that we also you know, it's fine for
it to come out like you kind of want it
to come out. It's just it's very inconvenient when you
like trying to especially this is just where I've got
permission for too much information right from the start here.
But you know, when you've got a tampon in there
(05:36):
and then you've got like your bows are like really
going for it, and you're like, it's not going to
come out at once?
Speaker 7 (05:44):
Is my pelvic tone enough for me right now?
Speaker 6 (05:46):
On my doomed and then it's just it's just not
a good scenario when you think about it. I mean,
a lot of women use cups now, and I personally,
I'm not there yet. And you know what, I'm also
at an age where I don't need to be there yet.
I'm like, I don't mind menstruating days are surely numbered,
so I'm not. I mean, I understand the great for
(06:07):
the environment, I understand all the reasons people use them.
Speaker 7 (06:11):
I just can't do it.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
So that's that I can't either. If it makes you
feel better, I can't either. I've tried once, I was
scarred and I'll never go back. I love the idea
of them. I love the environmental idea of them. But again,
I'm totally fine with tampons and period underwear to be honest.
Speaker 6 (06:25):
Well, I also, I mean, I'm sure it's fine, but
it just I have visuals also of what that would
be like when you do get period poops and you've
got a cup in there, Like I feel like, I
don't know, we need someone to write in and let
us know. I personally don't have experience with that, but
it just feels like that would be another level.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Email me and let me know who this has happened to.
Speaker 6 (06:47):
Look all in all, you've got more activity, your hormones
have changed. There's a little bit of relaxation that's happened.
There's lots of reasons why we get period poops, but
it is very common and very normal, and like I said,
likely in the lead up you've probably not moved your
bowels either, so there's extra that needs to come out.
Speaker 5 (07:05):
Yes, God, that makes me feel so much better because
it is such a I mean quite literally a relief.
On your first and second day of your period, you
suddenly feel so much lighter and so much less bloated.
Speaker 6 (07:17):
It is true, it is true. And you know the
other reason that we might see. It's very common to
see bloating and fluid retention in the lead up to
the period if our hormones are not as balanced.
Speaker 7 (07:30):
As they could be.
Speaker 6 (07:31):
And we can blame progesterone for this, So pgestone. It's
great when it stays nice and high until the end
of the cycle, but if it starts to taper off early,
we see more pronounced pms, we see bloating, we see
fluid retention, and that's a result. I mean, progesterone is
a calming hormone. It's a natural diuretic. So with that
(07:52):
in mind, if there's not enough of it, you can
understand why we start to see these little symptoms. And
your timing of your symptoms is the most important clue
that your body is giving you. If you can line
up with the timing, you can work out generally what
your hormones are doing and make some adjustments. All of
these things are signs, and the majority of them are manageable,
(08:15):
if not treatable, if you have the right tools and resources.
Speaker 5 (08:19):
I think so many people will be so happy to
know that one. The next question is how much blood
does the average woman lose during her period? Now? I
know this is going to be a little bit different
for everybody, but what I wanted to kind of get
at here is it feels like at times you are
absolutely hemorrhaging and are in need of some kind of transfusion,
but it's not actually as much as we'd think.
Speaker 6 (08:42):
No, I believe it's around eighty meals, which is not
very much six tablespoons or something along those lines.
Speaker 7 (08:49):
I mean, it feels like so much more.
Speaker 6 (08:52):
I would say on average to help a woman understand
if she's losing an average amount of blood, I actually
measure in paddle tampon changes. I say to patients, Okay,
on the heaviest day, do you need to change your
pad or tampon less or more than four hourly? Any
more than four hourly I would consider a heavier bleed,
and any less than four hourly I would consider on
(09:15):
the lighter side, on the heaviest day I'm talking about.
So for some women that's the first day, for other
women that's the second or third day. And so just
having that information I think is very important. But it
is not that much. And there's other things in your period. Blood,
it's not just blood, so yes, you know, there's all
(09:36):
sorts of other cells.
Speaker 7 (09:37):
In there, bacteria.
Speaker 6 (09:39):
Your uterus is really the only self cleansing organ that
we have, so a period is very important for the
self cleansing nature of your uterus. It's a fully functional
organ on its own, Like it's incredible what it does.
But we hate on it because we hate on our
period because often it's problematic and we have to plan
(10:01):
our life around it. And so yeah, it's like I said,
it's probably not as much as you think. But if
you are losing more than four if you're losing more
than filling a plat pad or tamp on every four hours,
I would be looking into looking at what your estrogen's doing,
because generally more estrogen, more lining, more bleeding, So we
(10:22):
need to regulate estrogen generally for a heavier period. That's
outside of making sure that there's not a fibroid or
something else that's causing heavier bleeding. So you want to
look at that first, and if there's nothing sinister, then
we can regulate estrogen better to ease the period. But
it should really be four hourly changes as a good guide,
(10:43):
and it should you don't have to hemorrhach every month.
There's a reason for that.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Yes, yes, okay, that's really interesting. I've never heard it.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
Explained in hours because I think also when you're wearing
a pot or a tampon, the blood is absorbed, so
you're not actually it's not doesn't look like a physical
teaspoon or tablespoon of blood.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
You'd have no idea how much is in there?
Speaker 6 (11:03):
Right, and well, I guess the hour our cup listeners
are saying you're wrong. Actually I can see what's in there.
So the one very one time I did use a cup,
I was fascinated with what I saw. I was like,
oh it, it looks like for those of you who've
had a baby when when your show comes, so you know,
(11:24):
you get your show before your baby comes.
Speaker 7 (11:27):
It looks like that. I was fascinating.
Speaker 6 (11:28):
I'm like, oh, it's really not just blood, like it's
actually all sorts of things coming out of there, so
it's not that you're not losing other things on a tampon.
It looks like just blood, right, Yeah, it looks like
a full tampon of blood, and it's probably exactly likely not.
Speaker 7 (11:43):
So, but it was fascinating to me.
Speaker 6 (11:46):
It was very it was very stringy, and it was
very like it was.
Speaker 7 (11:52):
It really did look like it's not mixed with blood.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
Okay, I'm really again glad you said that because that
was my last question, but I'm going to bring it
up now because it's the perfect segue. Is it period blood,
regular blood or is there other things meet in it?
So what I'm getting from you now is there's obviously
other things like mucuse and things like that mixed in
with the blood, which would then populate the blood.
Speaker 6 (12:13):
Correct, it's not just blood. It's definitely not just blood.
But I didn't know that for a very long time,
in fact, not until well probably I knew it, but
I didn't really know it, do you know what I mean?
You know, when you learn something, you're like, I knew that,
but now I'm really fascinated by it. So, yes, there's
all sorts of like I said, there's other cells, there's bacteria,
there's lining, there's just all sorts of things coming out
(12:37):
of the uterus. Whatever is in there needs to come out,
because let's remember, whether you like it or not, your
body's setting you up for pregnancy every single day of
your cycle, whether it's cleansing, clearing and creating a nice
environment for an embryo to come along and embed itself,
or whether it's that hasn't happened so conception hasn't happened,
(12:58):
so it basically starts to get ready to repeat the
process again. So you know, in any given moment, your
body setting you up for pregnancy, and there'd be women
listening saying, well, my body's failing me, and it doesn't
do that. Actually, I'd flip that and say it's protecting you.
You're not in a position for pregnancy for whatever reason
that might be. And I know that's frustrating, but that
(13:21):
literally is your body protecting you. The same deal going
I'm getting you ready for pregnancy, and you're not ready
for this right now. We need to create an environment
that you are ready for it, so you know it's
not working. We need to work with that information, not
against it. We spend the majority of our lives trying
to not for pregnant, only to realize it's probably not.
Speaker 7 (13:40):
As easy as we thought.
Speaker 6 (13:41):
And you know, every star in the sky kind of
has to align and we need to be on a
chill pool holiday for it to happen. And then there's
all these other challenges thrown in the mix, like endo
or pcos or even just not having a regular cycle.
So it's fascinating the things that we find out as
we get older. We don't have to know it all.
And if you're listening and going, oh gosh, I never
(14:02):
knew any of this, it's cool.
Speaker 7 (14:04):
It's all good. You're learning now.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
That's why we're here exactly.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
But then we be looking at what's kind of happening
in terms of like if it is stringy, if there
is a lot of clots, for example, should we be
looking at those things regularly and just kind of keeping.
Speaker 7 (14:17):
Eye Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
I think I had a patient yesterday and your period
gives you so many clues. But this patient yesterday went
through the normal questions and then I really love talking
about the nitty gritty of a period because it's so
reflective of what's happening for you. She had extreme period pain,
off the chart period pain.
Speaker 7 (14:38):
I really felt.
Speaker 6 (14:41):
I felt a connection with her because it was me
when I was a young woman in my early twenties.
You know, the period pain that you'd pass out from.
You'd be on the bathroom floor. I remember pressing my
face up against the tiles because it was cold, and
I was like hot sweats and passing out and then vomiting.
And you know, if anyone's ever experienced that level of pain,
you know, right, and in the minute someone says, I vomit,
(15:03):
you know. But what was interesting was, you know, we
would expect her to have, well, generally, we would expect
her to have a heavy period and it'd be like
the floodgates are open, and that wasn't her story. In fact,
for her, she had pain from a week before her
(15:23):
period would start. She would have a very light start
to the period. Her second day was the heaviest day,
but she only had to change a pad or tampon
twice during that day, so that's not four hourly, that's
more like six or eight hourly, right, and she but
she had immense pain, And I said to her, so,
your period is telling us so much information because sometimes,
(15:47):
and very often, if a period is light, we have
to look at either a is there not often enough
estrogen for the flow to happen, And if there's not flow,
you're going to get pain because things need to move out.
Like it's like if you cut your finger and for
whatever reason, you know, lymph and pass and all the
things coagulate and blood.
Speaker 7 (16:08):
And it throbs and it hurts until.
Speaker 6 (16:10):
You release that and then it feels better. The cut's
still there, but the cut doesn't hurt anymore because you've
released the pressure. Well, it's the same with your uterus.
If the pressure it builds and the blood's not flowing,
that's going to hurt. So I said to her, we
need to work out whether or not your blood's not
flowing because there's some type of pelvic stagnation. It might
be flowing in the wrong direction. We see this very
(16:30):
often with endometriosis, or there's actually just not enough of it,
so there's not enough drive for the period flow to happen,
that's going to hurt as well. But that information of
just knowing that she had a light period with extreme
pain tells us a lot of information. No different to
the person that has the really heavy bleeding and whether
(16:51):
they have extreme pain or not. I often find that
the pain's not as extreme when there's a flow happening.
There's still pain, don't get me wrong, but it's not
as extreme because that release is happening and it can
actually move. If we're seeing things like you know, you
want to look for things like the color of the period.
It should be fresh red color. It shouldn't look dark.
(17:12):
If it's dark towards the end of the period is fine,
but to begin with that shows that there is again
some level of issue with flow. It's not flowing properly.
It's oxygenated for a period of time before we're seeing
that move out of the body. Clots also can be
an indication of, you know, whether or not that's happening,
or again, the flow is not actually as easy and
(17:35):
free as it could be. So these are all clues,
but we really should be looking for a period that
is heavy to start with. It's fresh reading color, there's
obviously no pain in the perfect world. And it lasts
for somewhere around five days approximately, give or take. And
as we get older, our periods do get lighter. Nobody
talks about this. In our thirties, it is common for
(17:58):
your period to get lighter and shorter. Enjoy it because
that's going to change again. But we don't get this,
and I have a lot of women that will say,
there's something wrong with my period. All throughout my twenties,
it was clockwork, twenty eight days.
Speaker 7 (18:12):
I'd bleed for five days.
Speaker 6 (18:14):
All of a sudden, it's three days and it's shorter,
and it's lighter, and what's wrong And it's like nothing.
Speaker 7 (18:21):
Just no one's told.
Speaker 6 (18:21):
You that this is normal, and it's exciting, and embrace
it and enjoy it because it's going to change again.
So many clues in your period, and this is you know,
it's been likened to and other experts have said it's
your monthly report card, and I do agree with that.
Speaker 7 (18:39):
It tells us so.
Speaker 6 (18:41):
Much about the internal landscape of our pelvic health and
our hormone health.
Speaker 7 (18:47):
We're just not taught this.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 5 (18:50):
And my kind ofcologists actually encouraged me to keep a
period journal and to write down on what day of
my cycle I had the most pain, and for me,
that's during ovulation, which is actually getting worse. And then
I became very familiar with my body and we can
track its changes. But I think that's been such a
game changing move in my relationship with my period, and
(19:10):
I feel like more people should do that.
Speaker 6 (19:12):
Oh definitely. And you know, anything that's cyclic, we can
blame our hormones. So a random headache because you've had
a bad day at work is very different to a
headache that occurs generally at a peak hormonal time ovulation
or the period, or in the lead up to either
of those, or at the end of either of those.
It can happen at any of those times. But if
(19:32):
this is happening for you each and every month, that's
a big clue that you can utilize depending on when
it's happening, and lining up what the hormones are doing
at that time will allow you to then have some
answers as to what to do next.
Speaker 7 (19:45):
This stuff doesn't necessarily show up on a blood test.
Speaker 6 (19:48):
This is stuff you have to get like in, you know,
really investigate and I guess the hard part is sometimes
you know just knowing stuff because you've seen it enough
times to know it. And I think that's sort of
the camp that I sit in these days, is that
I probably have sat with at least twenty thirds and women.
I've seen the scenarios play out over and over and
(20:08):
over again. And so when you've seen enough of it,
a you know what's happening, and be you know what
to do with that because you've seen it enough times
and these things don't necessarily sharpen a test. And the
other thing I was thinking about this today when I
was just driving.
Speaker 7 (20:21):
Back from the gym.
Speaker 6 (20:22):
But you know, we're often asking the wrong health care
provider to give us the answers. We go to our
GP and we want answers that our gynecologists should be
telling us.
Speaker 7 (20:31):
We go to our gynecologist for answers.
Speaker 6 (20:33):
Our nutritionists should be telling us, you know, we go
to our nutritionist for answers that our natural path should
be telling us. And so everybody's got a really amazing
role to play, but we have to have the right
pair of eyes on it at the right time. And
I guess that gets frustrating for people. But I do
see women day in day out, so angry that their
(20:56):
doctor couldn't read their test results. And I'm like, because
it's not their area of expertise, you're going It's like
someone coming to me and asking me to read their
their inflammation report and they've got cancer. I would have
no idea how to help them. I don't know, it's
not my area. And so I think this is where
a lot of women do fall short. They don't get
(21:17):
the answers that they need. They've not shown how to
use their cycle for clues. They're expecting someone to tell
them what's wrong with them when they actually have most
of the information. And it's also hard when you're not
feeling well. So there's a lot of moving parts there.
But I hope that for the person that keeps on
going to the doctor and is not getting the answer
(21:38):
that they need, we need to do a little bit
of groundwork ourselves and go internally and tracking our cycle.
Lets us do this, and then we can present this
information to the right health care provider.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
Oh absolutely, I am so all for a holistic health
care plan because I think there are so much power
in a being in tune with your body and actually
realizing no one knows your body, like you, you know, when
something's fundamentally wrong and it's so frustrating and you feel
like you're being gas lip by my professionals. Sometimes when
you go to the doctor for the same problem and
they keep turning you away. It's nothing, it's nothing, but
(22:11):
you are so right. I cannot vouch that enough.
Speaker 7 (22:13):
Yeah, and it's no disrespect.
Speaker 6 (22:15):
You know, you want your GP there when you have
a cold or you've broken an arm, or you know,
as a first point a call. But we're really expecting
a lot out of each of our providers. We kind
of expect the whole kitten kaboodle from one person, and
it's not how it works. So I think also if
everybody stays in their area of expertise, there will be
(22:36):
no issues. The problem with that is that it becomes
expensive for the consumer, and that's why we want the
one person to give us the answers. So there's a
bit of responsibility I think on everybody's part. And there's
also I think, you know, I spent a lot of
time in the US and I work with a lot
of high level health providers, and I just I what
attracts me there is the collaboration of health providers for
(23:01):
the patient, and we're not here yet in Australia. Unfortunately,
we're getting there, but we're not quite there. There's still
a bit of cloak and dagger. There's still a bit
of like that doesn't work or that's ridiculous on both parts,
and we need to come together because it's not there's
no one right way, it's just the patient's way.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
My next question is it true that your periods can
sync up with people that you spend a lot of
time with, because I feel like this has definitely happened
to me with girls that I've lived with and girls
that I've worked with.
Speaker 6 (23:27):
So medically the answer is no. But I call total
bias on that, Like, I'm like, it happens.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
How else do you explain it?
Speaker 8 (23:36):
I know?
Speaker 6 (23:36):
And it looks his thing, you know, when it looks
when you look at any any research, you can find
whatever answer you want to find. Anything we haven't learned
in the last little recent while. You can probably find
a research that tells you it's probably a research of
sample of four people. But if you eat chocolate, you will,
you know, be fit and fabulous, and it's like that,
you know, we can find the answers to whatever we seek.
(23:59):
But in my experience, one hundred percent women's cycles do
seem to sink up. Now, whether or not that's because
of I would say it's probably to do with pheromones
and a few other factors. And there's often a mother hand,
isn't there. There's often the one person, yes that everybody
(24:20):
thinks first, that's me always. I never think to anybody else,
everyone thinks it's really funny. Yeah, everyone sinks to me
for some reason. Mine doesn't waiver. It's sort of the
same all the time.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
Own that power. That's amazing.
Speaker 7 (24:33):
I have to say.
Speaker 6 (24:34):
Yeah, when I'm different various people over the years, people
will be always like, why does mine always change?
Speaker 7 (24:40):
I'm like, oh, know them change ever.
Speaker 6 (24:43):
So I think, you know, whether that's also other influences,
Like there's certain spending time with certain people makes you
more health conscious or more diligent, so that can be
a factor too. It's not just the fact that you know,
there's some woo woo magic that's going on. But again,
everything is energy, and we pick up on others' energy,
(25:04):
so we take that on as well. But I think
that if you were to really properly have a big
sample study like proper, I think you would find without
a doubt that this actually does happen. But medically and
scientifically the answer is no. So you know, I think
that there's still more there's still more research that needs
(25:25):
to be done to solidify this for us. But like
you said, you ask most women and they will say, oh,
that's yeah. I definitely that definitely happens.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
I mean, I'm just gonna say I will put my
hand up to be involved in that study because I
swear I've always worked in very female oriented officers and
jobs and things like that, and even with my housemates,
I'm never the dominant. I'm always the one whose period
changes and I end up syncing up with someone else.
But I remember one of the first times that happened.
The girl I was living with at the time. She
was like, that means I'm the alpha, and I was like, well,
you and your magnetic uterus have a super bower, then yep.
Speaker 7 (25:56):
I have the magnetic uterus.
Speaker 6 (25:58):
Maybe we could be like put all in camps when
women need to get their cycles back on track, and
like the alpha can be the hen of the like
the let you call it. When you're a dormitory and
I reckon, there's an experiment like that's how your mother.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
I love that idea.
Speaker 6 (26:17):
Mother, hen truly like let's get let's get us all
like the mother, let me get your eggs in a row.
Speaker 5 (26:26):
Literally, Oh my god, I'm so here for that. I
think there was something to be said about that. And
then my final question, and this is again, I can't
believe I'm asking you this. I'm actually quite embarrassed. But
I don't know if this is an urban legend or not.
But is it true that your hymen breaks the first
time you use a tampon?
Speaker 6 (26:44):
So actually I read something the other day that that
wasn't true, and I'm like, now I'm so confused, And
now I'm the wrong person to ask for this, because okay,
I did read the other day, well I always learned that, yes,
that's what happened, you know, Yes, that's what we learned.
But does it actually just is it something that just
grows and evolves and actually just comes away on its own?
(27:06):
Like I don't know, so, but I did read something
the other day where it did say that it's not true.
So again, I'm pretty sure we can find evidence of
anything that we want to find.
Speaker 7 (27:16):
But I always did learn that it needed to be broken.
Speaker 6 (27:19):
And that's that's why, you know, when we're younger, our
first encounter, I mean, our first encounter is never going
to be fabulous, is it.
Speaker 7 (27:29):
See?
Speaker 8 (27:31):
You know, if anyone looks back and says, God, that
was nice, well, I think also, you know, there was
the hole we we need to put a towel down
because we just don't know what's going to happen here.
Speaker 7 (27:44):
And then it was all very like. It wasn't like
in the heat of any moment.
Speaker 6 (27:47):
It was all very very clinical. It was very clinical. So,
I mean technically traditionally yes, but in recent times I
think we're finding out that that may not actually be
the case.
Speaker 7 (27:59):
But don't quote me on that one.
Speaker 6 (28:00):
I need to go and find out for myself, because no,
recently I did have my mind blown there.
Speaker 7 (28:07):
So this is the thing.
Speaker 6 (28:09):
I think it's really important to understand that we're always growing,
we're always learning, and we're always evolving. What we once
thought was fact sometimes is no longer fact. You know,
I even asked the question, we're told that we're born
with all of our eggs. I don't believe that. I
actually don't. I mean, I know that the research suggests
that we are. But I see women that have gone
(28:30):
from having really low ovarian reserve to having amazing overian reserve,
and it's like, well, how did that happen? And I
think when the body is put in an optimal environment,
anything can happen. So whether or not we're born with
them and they just go into hiding when we're in
a stressed environment, or whether or not we can make more,
I just you know, we were once told that we're
(28:51):
born with all of our brain cells, and then we've
started to realize, well, maybe that's not the case.
Speaker 7 (28:55):
So I'm open.
Speaker 6 (28:56):
I'm open to things not being as they are, and
I think the more that we can be open to
learning new things and not seeing something as cong crete.
And I think this extends to things like ENDO and pcos.
I see women that have ENDO and PCs and we
can get them to a state of recovery and there's
no evidence of the illness anymore. It doesn't mean that
(29:17):
they're not predisposed, doesn't mean it can't be there in
an instant, but as it stands, in that moment, they
don't have evidence of that or you can't see that.
And I think that's what we should be always aiming
for is to steer our body into an optimal state
of health, whatever that looks like for you. But the
potential and possibilities are endless. We just have to be
open to that happening. We're often very closed off and
(29:39):
we love a diagnose.
Speaker 7 (29:40):
We love a diagnosis we do.
Speaker 5 (29:42):
We do it just as like a band aid to
a bullet wound. But I think also when you think
back to, say, for example, when our parents were young
and started you know, menstruating and getting that information, things
have changed so much since then, and the medical advancements
and the things you can do now, particularly with you know,
fertility and things like that, I feel like it's just
it's always going to be changing exactly.
Speaker 6 (30:05):
That's the thing I think that's really important. It's like, yeah,
we take things as gospel that we learned forty years ago,
and maybe they're not facts. Well maybe they're not concrete facts,
or maybe it can change, and so yeah, definitely, I
think we have to be open to learning more. It's
never too late to learn, it's never too late to
ask the questions I think we need to be asking,
(30:27):
especially when it comes to our circles, in our our periods.
But just like the you know, one more myth that
we're told that we all ovulate on surround cycle day fourteen.
It's like ten percent of women ovulate on circle day fourteen.
Yet we're told that, and we believed that, and then
we let our app tell us that, and it's like
ten percent of people, ten percent of us ovulate on
(30:49):
cycle day fourteen. So no wonder we can't feel pregnant,
No wonder we have accident pregnancies, no wonder, you know
that we just don't understand our circle because we're not
trusting our body wisdom. We're relying on a calendar or
an app that predicts when we ovulate or predicts when
our periods you based on the previous period. And as
(31:12):
we're learning, you know, cycles can change, so it's not
a concrete scenario and there's always variation of that.
Speaker 5 (31:20):
That's fascinating and I hope that that scares a lot
of young people listening who thinks that they're invincible, because
I even read somewhere that you can ovulate while you
have your period, like some people's bodies are just so
you know, work in such individual ways. And I think
that's again a big myth that you can only get pregnant,
you know, day fourteen, fifteen sixteen.
Speaker 6 (31:39):
Yeah, it's very true though, I mean you can. It's
not common, but it can happen. And I would say
that probably, you know, this might happen once in a
lifetime for most.
Speaker 7 (31:48):
Women, if not more than once.
Speaker 6 (31:49):
Maybe we get early periods out of blue sometimes and
that would be a result of an early ovulation.
Speaker 7 (31:55):
The only way you can have a period is if
you ovulate.
Speaker 6 (31:58):
So if you've ever had out of the blue early period,
well you've ovulated earlier to get for that to happen.
And it only takes that one time that it happens.
And this is the other thing we've got to realize.
It just takes that one time and again all the
stars in the sky to a ligne that you happen
to be intimate with someone at that point in time
to fall pregnant. It's no different to when women are
(32:21):
breastfeeding and then haven't had a period and fall pregnant
and they're like, well, I fell pregnant without having period.
Speaker 7 (32:26):
It's like, no, you don't.
Speaker 6 (32:27):
You actually just by chance ovulated in that moment and
felt pregnant and just happened to capture that like that
was a freak scenario, but it happens frequently. And again,
it's understanding and looking at the rhythms of your body
and what it's telling you. And lastly, I'm going to say, Phoebe,
we need to sort out your ovulation pain.
Speaker 7 (32:48):
It's not that hard to fix.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
Oh my god, it's so for honestly, it is so bad. Yes,
I need to book an apintment with you.
Speaker 7 (32:54):
That's awful. That's awful. No one wants that. It's like
double whammy.
Speaker 6 (32:58):
It's like, let me just remind you every couple of
weeks you.
Speaker 5 (33:01):
Have so oh so I always finish every episode with
one piece of advice, and I guess I will start
because you have taught me so much. And honestly, I
think I first met you. God, it would have been
about ten years ago when I was working at Auna Jane.
And You've always said to listen to your body. And
(33:22):
I've always been kind of not the type of person
to be on hormone or contraception until recently when it
was diagnosed, but I'm now off it. And I've always
been very in tune with my body and listen to
my body. You know, I can feel ovulation, I can see.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
When things are kind of wrong.
Speaker 5 (33:39):
So my piece of advice would be to listen to
your body and tune into your body. But you can
probably give a lot more profound advice, So let's finish
with that.
Speaker 6 (33:47):
Well. I mean, I've always got lots of different things
to you know, different pieces of advice, but again, not
just listen, I think, and it's the same thing, but
observe your period, like, have a look what is it
at We've already touched on this, but I want to
circle back, what is it actually telling you outside of pain?
Because I think we put that as being part and parcel,
(34:08):
you know, get my period, I'm in pain. Let's put
the pain aside, and so.
Speaker 7 (34:13):
Many other little things are there, and it's hard.
Speaker 6 (34:15):
I know, pain overrides everything, but often when we treat
a patient's period pain, then all these other little things
show up and I'm like, that's always been there, you
just never got to pay attention because the pain over
rid everything. So if we can actually address that and
see what else is revealing itself, then and to that point, also,
(34:37):
the other piece of advice is don't try and do
everything the day before and the day of your first,
first and second day of your period. You absolutely have
permission to do the bare minimum, and in doing so,
you'll be more productive for the rest of the cycle.
But we are not men. You do not have to
(34:57):
behave like a man when you have a period.
Speaker 7 (34:59):
We are not men.
Speaker 6 (35:00):
We have a uterus, we have hormones, and we need
to sleep a li little bit more. We need to
eat a little bit more, we need to rest a
little bit more.
Speaker 7 (35:08):
We just need to do the bare minimum.
Speaker 6 (35:10):
And if you can do that for two days, three days,
whatever your body's asking, I promise you the rest of
the cycle will be better. But we push against it,
act like tiny men, and we're not.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
Oh say it louder.
Speaker 5 (35:21):
I'm giving the random applause for that one, and I
just want her fish also by saying, guys, if you're
too embarrassed to ask these questions, message them to me
and I'll ask them for you. Because I have absolutely
no shame in my period game.
Speaker 6 (35:33):
I'm happy to answer any questions as well, Like it's
just really is one of those things that more information.
I'm constantly astounded by how we don't know this, And
I have to also say we are more informed than
ever before, don't get me wrong. Like I'm watching what
my fourteen year old is getting her education when it
comes to her body, and it's good, Like it's better
(35:54):
than what we got, so much better than what we got,
but we're not there yet. So it's you know, I
know it's great, but we're still not there yet. You know,
there's still a stigma to it to a degree because
the people that are teaching it are still emotionally scarred.
Speaker 7 (36:09):
So we've got it.
Speaker 6 (36:10):
I think the next generation again, it's so lucky. They're
going to have so much more than we had. But
the only way we change this landscape is through conversation, and.
Speaker 5 (36:21):
I will continue to have those conversations. And for anyone
listening who wants to get a bit more information about natch,
she has an abundance of things you can listen to.
You She's got a podcast, she's got a website, she's
got a blog, she's got multiple books. She honestly is
like period and fertility whisperer. So I'll pop all of
those links in the show notes this week if you
want to check her out, And thank you so much.
This is probably definitely not the last time we'll have
(36:42):
you on the show. I always love chatting to you,
and thank you so much for being just as Demi
as I am.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 7 (36:49):
You're so welcome. Thank you so much for having me.
It's been a pleasure to chat with you.
Apogee Production, Confessions of a train Wreck, Dirty thirty and Surviving.
Speaker 2 (00:17):
It's easy to big out out the way I live
that it is a training foreign character. I was ermons
in my dit genes in my training for interesting.
Speaker 3 (00:38):
Commandment number two hundred and two, thou shall remember that
there's no such thing as a silly question. I'm the
first person to admit that I'm a classic oversharer, which
is why I love nothing more than chatting to other oversharers,
particularly about interesting topics, and in my not so humble opinion,
(01:02):
there's nothing more interesting than some good old period chat.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Now. I've done many episodes about this in my time.
Speaker 5 (01:10):
I've chatted about pms, I've waxed circle about ENDO, but
never have I ever asked Tammi taboo questions that we're
all thinking but no one's saying.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
Think of this episode like an audio version of Dolly.
Speaker 5 (01:23):
Doctor, but instead of hearing answers from someone who's probably
an intern, we're getting them from Nat kring goutis a
two time best selling author, podcaster, and female health practitioner
who I could honestly chat to for hours. Welcome back
to the podcast, Nat, I am so excited to have
you back. You've been on a couple of times now,
(01:44):
but I'm really especially scited to talk to you today
about periods, which is literally one of my favorite things
to talk about.
Speaker 6 (01:50):
Well, thank you so much for having me, and periods
are something I talk about every day, so I think
we're in the right place.
Speaker 4 (01:57):
Then, my god, Well you will love my first question
for you there.
Speaker 5 (02:00):
But I was just going to start by saying, firstly,
as someone who's got endmitrosis and over insists, a lot
of my day to day conversations are about periods, and
I'm also quite passionate about trying to kind of end
the stigma and you know, period shame in general, because
there is absolutely no shame to be had in it whatsoever.
And I'm pretty lucky in that I've only ever experienced
period shame kind of once from an next partner. But
(02:22):
I'm very open and close to my mum and my
sister and all of my girlfriends. But I know there
are some girls and women out there who might not
have that. So I kind of want this episode today
just to be there for the people that might not
necessarily have that.
Speaker 7 (02:34):
I love that so much, so I feel like this.
Speaker 5 (02:36):
Is going to be an audio version kind of Dolly Doctor.
But I wanted to ask you today some TMI period
questions that I feel like maybe people have always had
in the back of their mind, but they might be
too scared to ask people the actual answers to these questions.
Speaker 7 (02:51):
I'm here for it.
Speaker 6 (02:52):
I love it sounds like you know, I mean, I
wanted a sealed section in my last book. I wanted
a sealed section like the Dolly Doctor because I just, oh,
how much did we love a Dolly Doctor back in
the day?
Speaker 7 (03:03):
And I wanted to put in there.
Speaker 6 (03:05):
We have got a Q and a section in there,
and I wanted to put all those questions in there,
like the things that you want to anonymously ask that
you've always been too scared to find out the answer,
or you've been embarrassed to ask your GP or your
mum or whoever.
Speaker 7 (03:19):
So fire away.
Speaker 5 (03:21):
Yes, this is going to be like the trend going
around Instagram at the moment, the anonymous ask me anything.
But this is not anonymous. It's very very public and
I'm not ashamed. So the first question is why do
you poop so much when you have your period? And
this is something that I've openly discussed with girlfriends, and
we often call them period poops. But as if it's
(03:42):
not enough that you're already feeling quite full and bloated
when you have your period, but then for the first
couple of days you.
Speaker 4 (03:48):
Poop a lot.
Speaker 6 (03:49):
What you probably have noticed, I hope, is that in
the lead up to the period, your bows don't really
move as much as they ordinarily do, so when the
flood gates open, they literally open, and it can be
you know, it's due to several factors, and not everybody
experiences this, and I think it's very common for women
(04:10):
with endometriosis or any type of pelvic stagnation or congestion
that could just be scarring. It might be cysts, although
you know, yeah, cysts that can take up room anything
that's competing for real estate, You've got to think about
what's going on there. It's only so much that can
fit for starters. So and also due to the changes
(04:32):
in hormones that happen as well. So you know, when
we see the change in hormones and we start to
see things spike, there's different functions that happen. There's relaxation
that happens, there's increased activity and energy that happens. So
it is very common that we do see at the
onset of the period, we do see looser vowels. But
(04:54):
also what aggravates the uterus aggravates the bowels. So I'm
not advocating for this, but this is why women traditionally
may have turned to cast or oil during pregnancy to bring
on a baby, is because by aggravating their bow they
were also aggravating their uterus, and therefore that would get
the uterine contractions happening. So they do receive the same
(05:16):
nerve innovation, and they are very much connected. And it
is important that we also you know, it's fine for
it to come out like you kind of want it
to come out. It's just it's very inconvenient when you
like trying to especially this is just where I've got
permission for too much information right from the start here.
But you know, when you've got a tampon in there
(05:36):
and then you've got like your bows are like really
going for it, and you're like, it's not going to
come out at once?
Speaker 7 (05:44):
Is my pelvic tone enough for me right now?
Speaker 6 (05:46):
On my doomed and then it's just it's just not
a good scenario when you think about it. I mean,
a lot of women use cups now, and I personally,
I'm not there yet. And you know what, I'm also
at an age where I don't need to be there yet.
I'm like, I don't mind menstruating days are surely numbered,
so I'm not. I mean, I understand the great for
(06:07):
the environment, I understand all the reasons people use them.
Speaker 7 (06:11):
I just can't do it.
Speaker 5 (06:12):
So that's that I can't either. If it makes you
feel better, I can't either. I've tried once, I was
scarred and I'll never go back. I love the idea
of them. I love the environmental idea of them. But again,
I'm totally fine with tampons and period underwear to be honest.
Speaker 6 (06:25):
Well, I also, I mean, I'm sure it's fine, but
it just I have visuals also of what that would
be like when you do get period poops and you've
got a cup in there, Like I feel like, I
don't know, we need someone to write in and let
us know. I personally don't have experience with that, but
it just feels like that would be another level.
Speaker 4 (06:44):
Email me and let me know who this has happened to.
Speaker 6 (06:47):
Look all in all, you've got more activity, your hormones
have changed. There's a little bit of relaxation that's happened.
There's lots of reasons why we get period poops, but
it is very common and very normal, and like I said,
likely in the lead up you've probably not moved your
bowels either, so there's extra that needs to come out.
Speaker 5 (07:05):
Yes, God, that makes me feel so much better because
it is such a I mean quite literally a relief.
On your first and second day of your period, you
suddenly feel so much lighter and so much less bloated.
Speaker 6 (07:17):
It is true, it is true. And you know the
other reason that we might see. It's very common to
see bloating and fluid retention in the lead up to
the period if our hormones are not as balanced.
Speaker 7 (07:30):
As they could be.
Speaker 6 (07:31):
And we can blame progesterone for this, So pgestone. It's
great when it stays nice and high until the end
of the cycle, but if it starts to taper off early,
we see more pronounced pms, we see bloating, we see
fluid retention, and that's a result. I mean, progesterone is
a calming hormone. It's a natural diuretic. So with that
(07:52):
in mind, if there's not enough of it, you can
understand why we start to see these little symptoms. And
your timing of your symptoms is the most important clue
that your body is giving you. If you can line
up with the timing, you can work out generally what
your hormones are doing and make some adjustments. All of
these things are signs, and the majority of them are manageable,
(08:15):
if not treatable, if you have the right tools and resources.
Speaker 5 (08:19):
I think so many people will be so happy to
know that one. The next question is how much blood
does the average woman lose during her period? Now? I
know this is going to be a little bit different
for everybody, but what I wanted to kind of get
at here is it feels like at times you are
absolutely hemorrhaging and are in need of some kind of transfusion,
but it's not actually as much as we'd think.
Speaker 6 (08:42):
No, I believe it's around eighty meals, which is not
very much six tablespoons or something along those lines.
Speaker 7 (08:49):
I mean, it feels like so much more.
Speaker 6 (08:52):
I would say on average to help a woman understand
if she's losing an average amount of blood, I actually
measure in paddle tampon changes. I say to patients, Okay,
on the heaviest day, do you need to change your
pad or tampon less or more than four hourly? Any
more than four hourly I would consider a heavier bleed,
and any less than four hourly I would consider on
(09:15):
the lighter side, on the heaviest day I'm talking about.
So for some women that's the first day, for other
women that's the second or third day. And so just
having that information I think is very important. But it
is not that much. And there's other things in your period. Blood,
it's not just blood, so yes, you know, there's all
(09:36):
sorts of other cells.
Speaker 7 (09:37):
In there, bacteria.
Speaker 6 (09:39):
Your uterus is really the only self cleansing organ that
we have, so a period is very important for the
self cleansing nature of your uterus. It's a fully functional
organ on its own, Like it's incredible what it does.
But we hate on it because we hate on our
period because often it's problematic and we have to plan
(10:01):
our life around it. And so yeah, it's like I said,
it's probably not as much as you think. But if
you are losing more than four if you're losing more
than filling a plat pad or tamp on every four hours,
I would be looking into looking at what your estrogen's doing,
because generally more estrogen, more lining, more bleeding, So we
(10:22):
need to regulate estrogen generally for a heavier period. That's
outside of making sure that there's not a fibroid or
something else that's causing heavier bleeding. So you want to
look at that first, and if there's nothing sinister, then
we can regulate estrogen better to ease the period. But
it should really be four hourly changes as a good guide,
(10:43):
and it should you don't have to hemorrhach every month.
There's a reason for that.
Speaker 4 (10:48):
Yes, yes, okay, that's really interesting. I've never heard it.
Speaker 5 (10:51):
Explained in hours because I think also when you're wearing
a pot or a tampon, the blood is absorbed, so
you're not actually it's not doesn't look like a physical
teaspoon or tablespoon of blood.
Speaker 4 (11:01):
You'd have no idea how much is in there?
Speaker 6 (11:03):
Right, and well, I guess the hour our cup listeners
are saying you're wrong. Actually I can see what's in there.
So the one very one time I did use a cup,
I was fascinated with what I saw. I was like,
oh it, it looks like for those of you who've
had a baby when when your show comes, so you know,
(11:24):
you get your show before your baby comes.
Speaker 7 (11:27):
It looks like that. I was fascinating.
Speaker 6 (11:28):
I'm like, oh, it's really not just blood, like it's
actually all sorts of things coming out of there, so
it's not that you're not losing other things on a tampon.
It looks like just blood, right, Yeah, it looks like
a full tampon of blood, and it's probably exactly likely not.
Speaker 7 (11:43):
So, but it was fascinating to me.
Speaker 6 (11:46):
It was very it was very stringy, and it was
very like it was.
Speaker 7 (11:52):
It really did look like it's not mixed with blood.
Speaker 5 (11:55):
Okay, I'm really again glad you said that because that
was my last question, but I'm going to bring it
up now because it's the perfect segue. Is it period blood,
regular blood or is there other things meet in it?
So what I'm getting from you now is there's obviously
other things like mucuse and things like that mixed in
with the blood, which would then populate the blood.
Speaker 6 (12:13):
Correct, it's not just blood. It's definitely not just blood.
But I didn't know that for a very long time,
in fact, not until well probably I knew it, but
I didn't really know it, do you know what I mean?
You know, when you learn something, you're like, I knew that,
but now I'm really fascinated by it. So, yes, there's
all sorts of like I said, there's other cells, there's bacteria,
there's lining, there's just all sorts of things coming out
(12:37):
of the uterus. Whatever is in there needs to come out,
because let's remember, whether you like it or not, your
body's setting you up for pregnancy every single day of
your cycle, whether it's cleansing, clearing and creating a nice
environment for an embryo to come along and embed itself,
or whether it's that hasn't happened so conception hasn't happened,
(12:58):
so it basically starts to get ready to repeat the
process again. So you know, in any given moment, your
body setting you up for pregnancy, and there'd be women
listening saying, well, my body's failing me, and it doesn't
do that. Actually, I'd flip that and say it's protecting you.
You're not in a position for pregnancy for whatever reason
that might be. And I know that's frustrating, but that
(13:21):
literally is your body protecting you. The same deal going
I'm getting you ready for pregnancy, and you're not ready
for this right now. We need to create an environment
that you are ready for it, so you know it's
not working. We need to work with that information, not
against it. We spend the majority of our lives trying
to not for pregnant, only to realize it's probably not.
Speaker 7 (13:40):
As easy as we thought.
Speaker 6 (13:41):
And you know, every star in the sky kind of
has to align and we need to be on a
chill pool holiday for it to happen. And then there's
all these other challenges thrown in the mix, like endo
or pcos or even just not having a regular cycle.
So it's fascinating the things that we find out as
we get older. We don't have to know it all.
And if you're listening and going, oh gosh, I never
(14:02):
knew any of this, it's cool.
Speaker 7 (14:04):
It's all good. You're learning now.
Speaker 4 (14:06):
That's why we're here exactly.
Speaker 5 (14:08):
But then we be looking at what's kind of happening
in terms of like if it is stringy, if there
is a lot of clots, for example, should we be
looking at those things regularly and just kind of keeping.
Speaker 7 (14:17):
Eye Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 6 (14:20):
I think I had a patient yesterday and your period
gives you so many clues. But this patient yesterday went
through the normal questions and then I really love talking
about the nitty gritty of a period because it's so
reflective of what's happening for you. She had extreme period pain,
off the chart period pain.
Speaker 7 (14:38):
I really felt.
Speaker 6 (14:41):
I felt a connection with her because it was me
when I was a young woman in my early twenties.
You know, the period pain that you'd pass out from.
You'd be on the bathroom floor. I remember pressing my
face up against the tiles because it was cold, and
I was like hot sweats and passing out and then vomiting.
And you know, if anyone's ever experienced that level of pain,
you know, right, and in the minute someone says, I vomit,
(15:03):
you know. But what was interesting was, you know, we
would expect her to have, well, generally, we would expect
her to have a heavy period and it'd be like
the floodgates are open, and that wasn't her story. In fact,
for her, she had pain from a week before her
(15:23):
period would start. She would have a very light start
to the period. Her second day was the heaviest day,
but she only had to change a pad or tampon
twice during that day, so that's not four hourly, that's
more like six or eight hourly, right, and she but
she had immense pain, And I said to her, so,
your period is telling us so much information because sometimes,
(15:47):
and very often, if a period is light, we have
to look at either a is there not often enough
estrogen for the flow to happen, And if there's not flow,
you're going to get pain because things need to move out.
Like it's like if you cut your finger and for
whatever reason, you know, lymph and pass and all the
things coagulate and blood.
Speaker 7 (16:08):
And it throbs and it hurts until.
Speaker 6 (16:10):
You release that and then it feels better. The cut's
still there, but the cut doesn't hurt anymore because you've
released the pressure. Well, it's the same with your uterus.
If the pressure it builds and the blood's not flowing,
that's going to hurt. So I said to her, we
need to work out whether or not your blood's not
flowing because there's some type of pelvic stagnation. It might
be flowing in the wrong direction. We see this very
(16:30):
often with endometriosis, or there's actually just not enough of it,
so there's not enough drive for the period flow to happen,
that's going to hurt as well. But that information of
just knowing that she had a light period with extreme
pain tells us a lot of information. No different to
the person that has the really heavy bleeding and whether
(16:51):
they have extreme pain or not. I often find that
the pain's not as extreme when there's a flow happening.
There's still pain, don't get me wrong, but it's not
as extreme because that release is happening and it can
actually move. If we're seeing things like you know, you
want to look for things like the color of the period.
It should be fresh red color. It shouldn't look dark.
(17:12):
If it's dark towards the end of the period is fine,
but to begin with that shows that there is again
some level of issue with flow. It's not flowing properly.
It's oxygenated for a period of time before we're seeing
that move out of the body. Clots also can be
an indication of, you know, whether or not that's happening,
or again, the flow is not actually as easy and
(17:35):
free as it could be. So these are all clues,
but we really should be looking for a period that
is heavy to start with. It's fresh reading color, there's
obviously no pain in the perfect world. And it lasts
for somewhere around five days approximately, give or take. And
as we get older, our periods do get lighter. Nobody
talks about this. In our thirties, it is common for
(17:58):
your period to get lighter and shorter. Enjoy it because
that's going to change again. But we don't get this,
and I have a lot of women that will say,
there's something wrong with my period. All throughout my twenties,
it was clockwork, twenty eight days.
Speaker 7 (18:12):
I'd bleed for five days.
Speaker 6 (18:14):
All of a sudden, it's three days and it's shorter,
and it's lighter, and what's wrong And it's like nothing.
Speaker 7 (18:21):
Just no one's told.
Speaker 6 (18:21):
You that this is normal, and it's exciting, and embrace
it and enjoy it because it's going to change again.
So many clues in your period, and this is you know,
it's been likened to and other experts have said it's
your monthly report card, and I do agree with that.
Speaker 7 (18:39):
It tells us so.
Speaker 6 (18:41):
Much about the internal landscape of our pelvic health and
our hormone health.
Speaker 7 (18:47):
We're just not taught this.
Speaker 4 (18:49):
One hundred percent.
Speaker 5 (18:50):
And my kind ofcologists actually encouraged me to keep a
period journal and to write down on what day of
my cycle I had the most pain, and for me,
that's during ovulation, which is actually getting worse. And then
I became very familiar with my body and we can
track its changes. But I think that's been such a
game changing move in my relationship with my period, and
(19:10):
I feel like more people should do that.
Speaker 6 (19:12):
Oh definitely. And you know, anything that's cyclic, we can
blame our hormones. So a random headache because you've had
a bad day at work is very different to a
headache that occurs generally at a peak hormonal time ovulation
or the period, or in the lead up to either
of those, or at the end of either of those.
It can happen at any of those times. But if
(19:32):
this is happening for you each and every month, that's
a big clue that you can utilize depending on when
it's happening, and lining up what the hormones are doing
at that time will allow you to then have some
answers as to what to do next.
Speaker 7 (19:45):
This stuff doesn't necessarily show up on a blood test.
Speaker 6 (19:48):
This is stuff you have to get like in, you know,
really investigate and I guess the hard part is sometimes
you know just knowing stuff because you've seen it enough
times to know it. And I think that's sort of
the camp that I sit in these days, is that
I probably have sat with at least twenty thirds and women.
I've seen the scenarios play out over and over and
(20:08):
over again. And so when you've seen enough of it,
a you know what's happening, and be you know what
to do with that because you've seen it enough times
and these things don't necessarily sharpen a test. And the
other thing I was thinking about this today when I
was just driving.
Speaker 7 (20:21):
Back from the gym.
Speaker 6 (20:22):
But you know, we're often asking the wrong health care
provider to give us the answers. We go to our
GP and we want answers that our gynecologists should be
telling us.
Speaker 7 (20:31):
We go to our gynecologist for answers.
Speaker 6 (20:33):
Our nutritionists should be telling us, you know, we go
to our nutritionist for answers that our natural path should
be telling us. And so everybody's got a really amazing
role to play, but we have to have the right
pair of eyes on it at the right time. And
I guess that gets frustrating for people. But I do
see women day in day out, so angry that their
(20:56):
doctor couldn't read their test results. And I'm like, because
it's not their area of expertise, you're going It's like
someone coming to me and asking me to read their
their inflammation report and they've got cancer. I would have
no idea how to help them. I don't know, it's
not my area. And so I think this is where
a lot of women do fall short. They don't get
(21:17):
the answers that they need. They've not shown how to
use their cycle for clues. They're expecting someone to tell
them what's wrong with them when they actually have most
of the information. And it's also hard when you're not
feeling well. So there's a lot of moving parts there.
But I hope that for the person that keeps on
going to the doctor and is not getting the answer
(21:38):
that they need, we need to do a little bit
of groundwork ourselves and go internally and tracking our cycle.
Lets us do this, and then we can present this
information to the right health care provider.
Speaker 5 (21:50):
Oh absolutely, I am so all for a holistic health
care plan because I think there are so much power
in a being in tune with your body and actually
realizing no one knows your body, like you, you know, when
something's fundamentally wrong and it's so frustrating and you feel
like you're being gas lip by my professionals. Sometimes when
you go to the doctor for the same problem and
they keep turning you away. It's nothing, it's nothing, but
(22:11):
you are so right. I cannot vouch that enough.
Speaker 7 (22:13):
Yeah, and it's no disrespect.
Speaker 6 (22:15):
You know, you want your GP there when you have
a cold or you've broken an arm, or you know,
as a first point a call. But we're really expecting
a lot out of each of our providers. We kind
of expect the whole kitten kaboodle from one person, and
it's not how it works. So I think also if
everybody stays in their area of expertise, there will be
(22:36):
no issues. The problem with that is that it becomes
expensive for the consumer, and that's why we want the
one person to give us the answers. So there's a
bit of responsibility I think on everybody's part. And there's
also I think, you know, I spent a lot of
time in the US and I work with a lot
of high level health providers, and I just I what
attracts me there is the collaboration of health providers for
(23:01):
the patient, and we're not here yet in Australia. Unfortunately,
we're getting there, but we're not quite there. There's still
a bit of cloak and dagger. There's still a bit
of like that doesn't work or that's ridiculous on both parts,
and we need to come together because it's not there's
no one right way, it's just the patient's way.
Speaker 5 (23:17):
My next question is it true that your periods can
sync up with people that you spend a lot of
time with, because I feel like this has definitely happened
to me with girls that I've lived with and girls
that I've worked with.
Speaker 6 (23:27):
So medically the answer is no. But I call total
bias on that, Like, I'm like, it happens.
Speaker 4 (23:34):
How else do you explain it?
Speaker 8 (23:36):
I know?
Speaker 6 (23:36):
And it looks his thing, you know, when it looks
when you look at any any research, you can find
whatever answer you want to find. Anything we haven't learned
in the last little recent while. You can probably find
a research that tells you it's probably a research of
sample of four people. But if you eat chocolate, you will,
you know, be fit and fabulous, and it's like that,
you know, we can find the answers to whatever we seek.
(23:59):
But in my experience, one hundred percent women's cycles do
seem to sink up. Now, whether or not that's because
of I would say it's probably to do with pheromones
and a few other factors. And there's often a mother hand,
isn't there. There's often the one person, yes that everybody
(24:20):
thinks first, that's me always. I never think to anybody else,
everyone thinks it's really funny. Yeah, everyone sinks to me
for some reason. Mine doesn't waiver. It's sort of the
same all the time.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
Own that power. That's amazing.
Speaker 7 (24:33):
I have to say.
Speaker 6 (24:34):
Yeah, when I'm different various people over the years, people
will be always like, why does mine always change?
Speaker 7 (24:40):
I'm like, oh, know them change ever.
Speaker 6 (24:43):
So I think, you know, whether that's also other influences,
Like there's certain spending time with certain people makes you
more health conscious or more diligent, so that can be
a factor too. It's not just the fact that you know,
there's some woo woo magic that's going on. But again,
everything is energy, and we pick up on others' energy,
(25:04):
so we take that on as well. But I think
that if you were to really properly have a big
sample study like proper, I think you would find without
a doubt that this actually does happen. But medically and
scientifically the answer is no. So you know, I think
that there's still more there's still more research that needs
(25:25):
to be done to solidify this for us. But like
you said, you ask most women and they will say, oh,
that's yeah. I definitely that definitely happens.
Speaker 5 (25:33):
I mean, I'm just gonna say I will put my
hand up to be involved in that study because I
swear I've always worked in very female oriented officers and
jobs and things like that, and even with my housemates,
I'm never the dominant. I'm always the one whose period
changes and I end up syncing up with someone else.
But I remember one of the first times that happened.
The girl I was living with at the time. She
was like, that means I'm the alpha, and I was like, well,
you and your magnetic uterus have a super bower, then yep.
Speaker 7 (25:56):
I have the magnetic uterus.
Speaker 6 (25:58):
Maybe we could be like put all in camps when
women need to get their cycles back on track, and
like the alpha can be the hen of the like
the let you call it. When you're a dormitory and
I reckon, there's an experiment like that's how your mother.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
I love that idea.
Speaker 6 (26:17):
Mother, hen truly like let's get let's get us all
like the mother, let me get your eggs in a row.
Speaker 5 (26:26):
Literally, Oh my god, I'm so here for that. I
think there was something to be said about that. And
then my final question, and this is again, I can't
believe I'm asking you this. I'm actually quite embarrassed. But
I don't know if this is an urban legend or not.
But is it true that your hymen breaks the first
time you use a tampon?
Speaker 6 (26:44):
So actually I read something the other day that that
wasn't true, and I'm like, now I'm so confused, And
now I'm the wrong person to ask for this, because okay,
I did read the other day, well I always learned that, yes,
that's what happened, you know, Yes, that's what we learned.
But does it actually just is it something that just
grows and evolves and actually just comes away on its own?
(27:06):
Like I don't know, so, but I did read something
the other day where it did say that it's not true.
So again, I'm pretty sure we can find evidence of
anything that we want to find.
Speaker 7 (27:16):
But I always did learn that it needed to be broken.
Speaker 6 (27:19):
And that's that's why, you know, when we're younger, our
first encounter, I mean, our first encounter is never going
to be fabulous, is it.
Speaker 7 (27:29):
See?
Speaker 8 (27:31):
You know, if anyone looks back and says, God, that
was nice, well, I think also, you know, there was
the hole we we need to put a towel down
because we just don't know what's going to happen here.
Speaker 7 (27:44):
And then it was all very like. It wasn't like
in the heat of any moment.
Speaker 6 (27:47):
It was all very very clinical. It was very clinical. So,
I mean technically traditionally yes, but in recent times I
think we're finding out that that may not actually be
the case.
Speaker 7 (27:59):
But don't quote me on that one.
Speaker 6 (28:00):
I need to go and find out for myself, because no,
recently I did have my mind blown there.
Speaker 7 (28:07):
So this is the thing.
Speaker 6 (28:09):
I think it's really important to understand that we're always growing,
we're always learning, and we're always evolving. What we once
thought was fact sometimes is no longer fact. You know,
I even asked the question, we're told that we're born
with all of our eggs. I don't believe that. I
actually don't. I mean, I know that the research suggests
that we are. But I see women that have gone
(28:30):
from having really low ovarian reserve to having amazing overian reserve,
and it's like, well, how did that happen? And I
think when the body is put in an optimal environment,
anything can happen. So whether or not we're born with
them and they just go into hiding when we're in
a stressed environment, or whether or not we can make more,
I just you know, we were once told that we're
(28:51):
born with all of our brain cells, and then we've
started to realize, well, maybe that's not the case.
Speaker 7 (28:55):
So I'm open.
Speaker 6 (28:56):
I'm open to things not being as they are, and
I think the more that we can be open to
learning new things and not seeing something as cong crete.
And I think this extends to things like ENDO and pcos.
I see women that have ENDO and PCs and we
can get them to a state of recovery and there's
no evidence of the illness anymore. It doesn't mean that
(29:17):
they're not predisposed, doesn't mean it can't be there in
an instant, but as it stands, in that moment, they
don't have evidence of that or you can't see that.
And I think that's what we should be always aiming
for is to steer our body into an optimal state
of health, whatever that looks like for you. But the
potential and possibilities are endless. We just have to be
open to that happening. We're often very closed off and
(29:39):
we love a diagnose.
Speaker 7 (29:40):
We love a diagnosis we do.
Speaker 5 (29:42):
We do it just as like a band aid to
a bullet wound. But I think also when you think
back to, say, for example, when our parents were young
and started you know, menstruating and getting that information, things
have changed so much since then, and the medical advancements
and the things you can do now, particularly with you know,
fertility and things like that, I feel like it's just
it's always going to be changing exactly.
Speaker 6 (30:05):
That's the thing I think that's really important. It's like, yeah,
we take things as gospel that we learned forty years ago,
and maybe they're not facts. Well maybe they're not concrete facts,
or maybe it can change, and so yeah, definitely, I
think we have to be open to learning more. It's
never too late to learn, it's never too late to
ask the questions I think we need to be asking,
(30:27):
especially when it comes to our circles, in our our periods.
But just like the you know, one more myth that
we're told that we all ovulate on surround cycle day fourteen.
It's like ten percent of women ovulate on circle day fourteen.
Yet we're told that, and we believed that, and then
we let our app tell us that, and it's like
ten percent of people, ten percent of us ovulate on
(30:49):
cycle day fourteen. So no wonder we can't feel pregnant,
No wonder we have accident pregnancies, no wonder, you know
that we just don't understand our circle because we're not
trusting our body wisdom. We're relying on a calendar or
an app that predicts when we ovulate or predicts when
our periods you based on the previous period. And as
(31:12):
we're learning, you know, cycles can change, so it's not
a concrete scenario and there's always variation of that.
Speaker 5 (31:20):
That's fascinating and I hope that that scares a lot
of young people listening who thinks that they're invincible, because
I even read somewhere that you can ovulate while you
have your period, like some people's bodies are just so
you know, work in such individual ways. And I think
that's again a big myth that you can only get pregnant,
you know, day fourteen, fifteen sixteen.
Speaker 6 (31:39):
Yeah, it's very true though, I mean you can. It's
not common, but it can happen. And I would say
that probably, you know, this might happen once in a
lifetime for most.
Speaker 7 (31:48):
Women, if not more than once.
Speaker 6 (31:49):
Maybe we get early periods out of blue sometimes and
that would be a result of an early ovulation.
Speaker 7 (31:55):
The only way you can have a period is if
you ovulate.
Speaker 6 (31:58):
So if you've ever had out of the blue early period,
well you've ovulated earlier to get for that to happen.
And it only takes that one time that it happens.
And this is the other thing we've got to realize.
It just takes that one time and again all the
stars in the sky to a ligne that you happen
to be intimate with someone at that point in time
to fall pregnant. It's no different to when women are
(32:21):
breastfeeding and then haven't had a period and fall pregnant
and they're like, well, I fell pregnant without having period.
Speaker 7 (32:26):
It's like, no, you don't.
Speaker 6 (32:27):
You actually just by chance ovulated in that moment and
felt pregnant and just happened to capture that like that
was a freak scenario, but it happens frequently. And again,
it's understanding and looking at the rhythms of your body
and what it's telling you. And lastly, I'm going to say, Phoebe,
we need to sort out your ovulation pain.
Speaker 7 (32:48):
It's not that hard to fix.
Speaker 5 (32:50):
Oh my god, it's so for honestly, it is so bad. Yes,
I need to book an apintment with you.
Speaker 7 (32:54):
That's awful. That's awful. No one wants that. It's like
double whammy.
Speaker 6 (32:58):
It's like, let me just remind you every couple of
weeks you.
Speaker 5 (33:01):
Have so oh so I always finish every episode with
one piece of advice, and I guess I will start
because you have taught me so much. And honestly, I
think I first met you. God, it would have been
about ten years ago when I was working at Auna Jane.
And You've always said to listen to your body. And
(33:22):
I've always been kind of not the type of person
to be on hormone or contraception until recently when it
was diagnosed, but I'm now off it. And I've always
been very in tune with my body and listen to
my body. You know, I can feel ovulation, I can see.
Speaker 4 (33:37):
When things are kind of wrong.
Speaker 5 (33:39):
So my piece of advice would be to listen to
your body and tune into your body. But you can
probably give a lot more profound advice, So let's finish
with that.
Speaker 6 (33:47):
Well. I mean, I've always got lots of different things
to you know, different pieces of advice, but again, not
just listen, I think, and it's the same thing, but
observe your period, like, have a look what is it
at We've already touched on this, but I want to
circle back, what is it actually telling you outside of pain?
Because I think we put that as being part and parcel,
(34:08):
you know, get my period, I'm in pain. Let's put
the pain aside, and so.
Speaker 7 (34:13):
Many other little things are there, and it's hard.
Speaker 6 (34:15):
I know, pain overrides everything, but often when we treat
a patient's period pain, then all these other little things
show up and I'm like, that's always been there, you
just never got to pay attention because the pain over
rid everything. So if we can actually address that and
see what else is revealing itself, then and to that point, also,
(34:37):
the other piece of advice is don't try and do
everything the day before and the day of your first,
first and second day of your period. You absolutely have
permission to do the bare minimum, and in doing so,
you'll be more productive for the rest of the cycle.
But we are not men. You do not have to
(34:57):
behave like a man when you have a period.
Speaker 7 (34:59):
We are not men.
Speaker 6 (35:00):
We have a uterus, we have hormones, and we need
to sleep a li little bit more. We need to
eat a little bit more, we need to rest a
little bit more.
Speaker 7 (35:08):
We just need to do the bare minimum.
Speaker 6 (35:10):
And if you can do that for two days, three days,
whatever your body's asking, I promise you the rest of
the cycle will be better. But we push against it,
act like tiny men, and we're not.
Speaker 4 (35:20):
Oh say it louder.
Speaker 5 (35:21):
I'm giving the random applause for that one, and I
just want her fish also by saying, guys, if you're
too embarrassed to ask these questions, message them to me
and I'll ask them for you. Because I have absolutely
no shame in my period game.
Speaker 6 (35:33):
I'm happy to answer any questions as well, Like it's
just really is one of those things that more information.
I'm constantly astounded by how we don't know this, And
I have to also say we are more informed than
ever before, don't get me wrong. Like I'm watching what
my fourteen year old is getting her education when it
comes to her body, and it's good, Like it's better
(35:54):
than what we got, so much better than what we got,
but we're not there yet. So it's you know, I
know it's great, but we're still not there yet. You know,
there's still a stigma to it to a degree because
the people that are teaching it are still emotionally scarred.
Speaker 7 (36:09):
So we've got it.
Speaker 6 (36:10):
I think the next generation again, it's so lucky. They're
going to have so much more than we had. But
the only way we change this landscape is through conversation, and.
Speaker 5 (36:21):
I will continue to have those conversations. And for anyone
listening who wants to get a bit more information about natch,
she has an abundance of things you can listen to.
You She's got a podcast, she's got a website, she's
got a blog, she's got multiple books. She honestly is
like period and fertility whisperer. So I'll pop all of
those links in the show notes this week if you
want to check her out, And thank you so much.
This is probably definitely not the last time we'll have
(36:42):
you on the show. I always love chatting to you,
and thank you so much for being just as Demi
as I am.
Speaker 4 (36:48):
I really appreciate it.
Speaker 7 (36:49):
You're so welcome. Thank you so much for having me.
It's been a pleasure to chat with you.
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