February 23, 2025 • 38 mins
Tracking macros? Counting calories? Forget all that. In this week's episode of FIT(ish), host Phoebe Parsons chats with naturopath Jennifer Ward about the real food rule that can transform your gut health, energy levels, and overall well-being—eating 30 different plant-based foods a week. They break down why you should be “eating the rainbow,” simple (and sneaky) ways to add more variety to your diet, and why diversity is the key to a thriving gut microbiome. If you’ve ever wondered how to improve your health without restrictive dieting, this episode is for you!Don't forget to follow FIT(ish) on Apple, Spotify or wherever you get your podcasts.
Follow Phoebe on Instagram here
For more information about Jennifer Ward visit her instagram or website.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:05):
Apogee Production. Welcome to Fit Dish. I'm Phoebe Parsons and
this is the podcast that proves that you don't have
to choose between staying fit and having fun. Welcome back
to the Podcassion of a Ward. I am so excited
to have you on again. It's been a little while
since I last spoke to you, but I always love chatting.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Thank you so much for having me again. It's always
so fun and I love the topics that you bring up.
I'm so excited for today.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I'm so excited too, and I am such a nerd
about this topic. But what I want to talk to
you today is macro nutrients versus micro nutrients because I
feel like at the moment, and I think that you'll
feel the same, protein is the absolute eat girl of
nutrition at the moment, which I think is a great thing.
I for one, love my protein, but I feel like
(00:56):
in this instance, it's making micro nutrients a little bit overlooked.
Do you agree?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Absolutely? And protein, in my opinion, will always be the
it girl. It is so so necessary. But yeah, I mean,
if we're learning about macros, we don't really have this capacity,
particularly initially to be even thinking about micros we take
one at a time and macros. You know, if you
have a base level of understanding, you need to put
(01:22):
some time into figuring them out first. But we don't
want to forget the micros because they're equally important for
a range of reasons.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Why do you think people are more obsessed with the macros?
Do you think it's just what's more spoken about because
it's kind of easier to wrap your head around.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Absolutely, I mean it's easier to wrap your head around.
There's fewer of them to begin with, But it really
depends on the person. If you're coming and going, hey,
my goal is to lose weight to buff up, then
the macro conversation comes first and foremost. But if you're
someone who's saying, hey, you know what, I want to
make some healthy changes, then that might be the broader conversation.
(02:02):
But macro nutrients, they seem to be an easier concept
to get at your head around and an easier starting
place for so many people who are looking to get healthier.
I get it. I think it's a great place to start,
But there comes a time where we need to go, hey,
what about the micronutrients, or to have a chat about
them too.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yeah, because I was actually reflecting on this just yesterday,
and I was thinking that when I first started kind
of getting really into my nutrition and kind of being
really holistic and healthy with my diet, I sorry, and
first and foremost, if you're not sure what a macroverse
micro is, macronutrients are protein, fat, carbohydrates. Sorry, I should
have said that at the very beginning for people who
might not be aware of it. And micronutrients and things
(02:41):
that are found mostly in plants, salads, veggies, fruits, nuts, seeds,
et cetera. So I think when I was first starting
out and I was starting to get really obsessed with
tracking my protein as a starting point, a lot of
the food that I was consuming came from a packet
or it was pre made, just because it was simpler,
it was easier to understand, it was less time consuming.
(03:04):
But I think when I did that, I notice myself
eating far less micronutrients because you can't reheat salad, you
can't reheat fruit, for example. Like that kind of stuff
isn't necessarily found in food that's prepackaged or pre made.
Do you think a lot of people do fall into
(03:24):
that trap when they're first starting to take note of
their nutrition.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Absolutely, and it's not a bad thing to buy pre
prepared meals. You are going to nail your macros so quickly,
but not just that, you'll gain a greater understanding of
what you're eating because it's literally written on the packet.
You can see it has these ingredients, and therefore it
has this much protein, this much carbs, this much fat.
So it's like pre training because when you go in
(03:51):
to do your own same meal prep or you're going
out to a restaurant, you'll be able to identify those
macros really really quickly. So I think it's an exceptional
place to start. If you don't have that based understanding
of macros, it's going to be hard to start to
get that understanding of micros after that. But there's a
few really quick and easy ways we can mitigate some
(04:14):
of those issues around pay not getting enough micros when
we're getting packaged through foods, which I'm sure we're going
to after But really I have no issue with those
prepacked meals at least for starting out that base level
of understanding around nutrition.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Yeah. Something I actually do, which we'll get into at
the end, is if I still do eat prepackaged food.
I mostly eat like pre made lunches, but I do
add some extra things to them that are a little
bit fresher, a little bit more microe Now, I want
to talk to you about the concept of I think
we spoke about this very briefly last time, but it's
something I'm very into at the moment, and that is
(04:51):
the concept around eating thirty different plant based foods a week.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Now.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
I know that sounds fucking terrifying if you are just
hearing that for the first time now, because thirty different
plant based foods seems very overwhelming, But can you explain
a little bit about the science behind it?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah? Absolutely, I love this. I talk about this all
the time, and when it sounds daunting to begin with,
I want you to know it is absolutely easy. We
can do it. We can even get up to forty
or fifty with ease, and we've got some good accentips
we'll go into. But the science behind it is everything
comes back to our gut. And if we think of
(05:31):
our gut, as you know, millions and trillions of bacteria,
just like us, they have individual tastes. So if we're
always eating bread, we're always feeding that one hungry bacteria
who loves bread, and that bacteria might not be great
on its own. However, if we're having a range of
different foods, we're feeding all our microbio and we have
(05:51):
great diversity. And not only do we then have good
bacteria in our gut, but we're crowding out some of
those bacteria, which are fine if they're in low levels,
but if they're in high levels or they're in isolation,
and they can cause some habit in the gut. And
the gut is where we can regulate our bodies. So
talking blood glucose levels, energy levels, nutrient intake, anti inflammatory,
(06:16):
thyroid hormones, everything starts with the gut. And so if
we can really nourish that create a beautiful, diverse landscape.
And if we can even think about that concept as
we're eating, Hey now i'm eating. Now I'm feeding and
fueling a new bacteria because I'm introducing a new food
I've never had, then we can really get on board
with this idea of a lot about health stems from
(06:40):
the gut.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
And does that in turn then help us be able
to eat a broader range of food Because I know,
for example, when I learned that concept myself. I, for example,
I'm not great with legumes, but it's because I've avoided
legumes actively for so long. So is that because I'm
not actively feeding the microbiome in my gut that responds
(07:02):
beyond legumes. Yeah, so I need to like consistently eat
them a little bit more to build up my kind
of tolerance to it.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, and anything new you are introducing, you want to
start small and build up. I think some of us
get a big gung ho and we go, hey, now
I'm going to eat legumes. Here's a can, i haven't
washed them, throw them all salad, and.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Go, oh my god, five days in a row.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I'm not going to do that again. Where the gut
needs time to change, and it will change over time.
So if we are adding a teaspoon, then a tablespoon,
then two tablespoons, and you'll get to this natural point
where you go, okay, that's enough. Much like meat, much
like fat, we all have these great tolerance points where
our body goes, you've had enough. I'm cutting you off now,
(07:45):
I'm going to make you bloat it if you'd anymore.
So anytime you are introducing new food starts, more work
your way out so.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
It's kind of like in the gym when you're working
in new muscle group or you're lifting weights you haven't
lifted before. You're going to get doms the next day
because it's something new for your body and your muscles
are getting used to it. You're not going to go
and do that for five days in a row because
you'll fuck your body up.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Literally, Absolutely, that's such a good analogy. I've never thought
of it that way, but everyone knows that feeling, so
the same goes for introducing new foods.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Love it, And I think this is a really easy
trap to fall into, particularly if you're someone who does
meal prep. And like I said, if you're either meal
prepping or you're eating pre prepared foods for a majority
of the time, you're making the same dish or the
same recipe in larger quantities, which is totally fine, but
I think it's just something to be aware of. And
when I started tracking this, I'm such a loser. I
(08:34):
actually started an Xcel spreadsheet and I'm not even I
hate Excel. I'm terrified of Excel, but I really wanted
to nail this thirty a week. Can you explain what
actually counts as a plant based food because when I
first started tracking this, I just thought it was fruits
and vegetables, and I was like, there is no way
I'm going to get to thirty just on fruits and
vegetables alone.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, oh, it's everything. Really, it's nuts, it's seeds, it's legumes,
it's vegetables, it's fruit, it's spices, it's herbs. Really, we
have so much to choose from, and it's an opportunity
to perhaps introduce these different food groups that we've kind
of forgotten about. So it doesn't have to be our duous.
(09:15):
It doesn't have to be foods we don't like. You've
got so much choice. You might go, oh, my gosh,
I forgot about macedamia nuts, or I forgot about basil,
and it's an opportunity to include them back in. So
we have so many ingredients there to work with it.
You know, when we do it right, it shouldn't be
a challenge. We shouldn't have to have Excel spreadsheets. We
(09:36):
should get to a point where we have these certain
foods in our diet, we go, my gosh, that's ten
just in that one meal, and then it becomes a
matter of you know, definitely at a baseline thirty, but
upwards of forty and fifty with so much ease and
so much enjoyment within the diet.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
And do they have to be completely fresh or can
things like frozen fruits count? Do things like jarred spices count?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Absolutely? Yeah, we have to think about food on a spectrum.
You know, the more alive and energetic the better. The
more we process it, the more it loses its qualities
and micronutrients as well. But it all counts. If you're
having jammed from a jar, if you're having absolutely spice mixes,
which is that's where you're going to get to your
thirty really quick. Any foods that we're eating are going
(10:25):
to account to that.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
I love that. That honestly was such a game changer
because that then includes things like nut butters, almond milks,
like all of that stuff counts.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Absolutely. Yeah. We honestly a lot of us might be
getting to that thirty without even realizing it.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yeah, it's actually really interesting. The first time I wrote
it down, I was surprised at how far I got
without even kind of intentionally having to try. When you
actually get down to what you.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Do eat and when you do when you get to
that thirty and it seems effortless. You can actually give
yourself a big pat on the back. You might say, oh,
I didn't eat that well this week. When you add
it up and see how much diversity you gave your
gut floor, that is a huge win. And that's an
area we can celebrate when other areas might not have
gone so well.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I love that so much. Now I want to play
a quick little game with you. I don't want to
put you on the spot, but can you name thirty
different plant based types of food in sixty seconds?
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Oh my gosh, yes, I want to get to all right.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
I'm going to punt on my fingers.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Ready, set go, blueberries, blackberries, pomegranate, mushrooms, broccoli, cauliflower, turmeric, basil, coriander,
black beans, lent tools, black rice, kinoa, oats, bananas, apples,
(11:49):
kiwi fruits, glasle sprouts, tale rockets. That's twenty. Oh my god, twenty.
I was going for thirty.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yeah no, no, that's twenty already, so we can do
ten more.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Oh gosh, I'm sorry. Okay, all right, I've lost my track.
Pinto beans, doukah spice mix, sunflower seeds, cheer seeds, cinnamon,
milkm and butter, peanuts, cashews, and parsley.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Woo thirty And when you say it like that, it
actually doesn't sound as overwhelming or intimidating.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Oh my gosh, I'm going through everything in my petrio.
I'm like, where is it goody in the fridge? What's
in the pover, what's going on? I love it.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
You absolutely charged like you charged into that blackberries, blueberse.
I love that so much.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I went strong.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Okay, So I want to talk about some simple ways
that people can boost their plant based foods because I
have a couple of tips, and I'm sure that you
have a couple of tips too.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah, there's so, so, so many ways to do it.
And this stuff really inspires me because I think sometimes
we get too caught up with how can I add
more vegetables, which is an important thing to do, but
we can get a lot of individual foods if we
don't necessarily think about the meal at hand, but like
(13:13):
you said, what we add to that meal. So, if
you're someone who maybe has a bit of anxiety about
trying new foods, maybe you're counting your macros and you
don't want to stray too much from that. Initially. Then
what we're looking at here is this area of toppers,
so condiments, herb, spices. So say you've got a meal
(13:33):
and it's broccoli, sweet potato and chicken, and that's literally
three ingredients. Maybe there's some olive oil in there too.
Then if we add something like pesto, what you're getting garlic,
you're getting basil, you're getting pineuts, you're getting lemon, you're
getting olive oil, you're getting all these parmesan as well.
(13:54):
You're getting six seven individual foods in that one condiment. Wow,
So it's really simple things. It doesn't have to be
completely revolutionized in the way. Wait, say then if you
want to add some spices onto the sweet potato, it
might be Duka spices, and then maybe you might want
to add some fresh coriander onto say the broccoli, then
(14:19):
you've probably added about ten to twelve ingredients. Even more,
if you're thinking of these spice mixes like Douka, which
have so much in them without really changing the landscape
of the meal, you can still see it. It still
looks the same, but essentially you've just enhanced it with
flavor whilst adding in all these unique foods. So if
(14:41):
in the case you're starting out and you think it's
all too much to change my diet. Don't just add
on those condiments, those fresh herbs, those spices, eaten some
lemon and olive oil, and you're already going to be doubling,
maybe tripling what you were doing within that meal already.
So that's my number one.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
That shit's on my hack. That is amazing. That is
so I've never thought about condiments before.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Condiments are underrated, and we need to be using them
more because they're delicious. When we go to a restaurant,
when we go to a friend's house and they have
a whole bunch of condiments out, it's like a kid
of the candy store. It's the exciting part of the meal.
Put some chili on, put some homice on. You know.
You think about different cuisines that really utilize condiments well,
and I'm talking all types, you know, dip, seasonings, et cetera.
(15:32):
So you might have a beautiful bubble ganosh, you might
have a beautiful yogurt dip, you might have a beautiful humus,
and that's just all part of their day to day.
But we tend to slim things down, and particularly if
we're looking at it from a macro perspective. We like
things to be neat on the plate, so we go,
there's my protein, there's my cubs, there's my fat, done dusted.
(15:54):
So if we actually amplify the meal by even pre
making or buying some of these really complex, delicious condiments
spice mixes, then we can double in no time. But
for those that are really curious about making some more
fundamental changes to their diet, I usually recommend starting slow
(16:17):
and starting with one new meal per month. And that
doesn't sound like much, But if we can adding one
new meal, one new recipe, that we're really challenging our
cell phone. So it might be if anyone knows Ottolengi,
he uses a lot of spices, a lot of ingredients
within his meals. Then say at the end of the
(16:38):
year we get ten that we loved, maybe two we're
a bit of a fail. Then we've got ten more
meals in our rotation. So perhaps week by week, month
by month, we're including more meals out of a desire
to have that meal and including more diversity. But rather
as opposed to you know, finding a real struggle, it's
(16:58):
I really want to eat that Mexican dish, or I
really want to eat that favorite salad that I make here,
and there been curious setting some time aside to at
least once a month just try something new. Can do
wonders for diversity.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
I love those so so much. I'm definitely gonna try
that new recipe thing because I am such a creature
of habit, and this is why I want to do
this episode selfishly for myself to figure out how to
get more in. But some things that I have done
that have been so simple have been so My partner
and I eat basically the same kind of meal every
single night, and we rotate slightly the veggies we use,
(17:36):
the salads we use, We always use the same meats,
et cetera. I used to always base my salads and
my lunch is kind of just on spinach, but now
I'll buy the mixed salad bags because there's like five
different types of leaves in there, so straight away that's
going from one to five. So there's like spinach, rocket
that bush let us stuff like, there's so many different
(17:58):
like herbs and things like that in there as well.
I used to also just eat white potato, but now
will alternate between white sweet and pumpkin and just kind
of keep that on a bit of a rotation. I
instead of just buying like frozen blueberries or frozen raspberries
by themselves, or buy the mixed berry bags because then
there's different kinds of berries in those bags as well,
(18:20):
something I always do as well, which now I know
that this counts. I didn't even realize was contributing to
my plant based foods. But every time I go to
the grocery store, I buy those chocolate coated chai alments.
Have you had them before?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
I have not, but I'm oh.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
My lord, they are. I think they're only at colds
because it's in the pick and mixed section, but then
that's chai and that's.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Almonds amazing, and it does it does include tea. If
you're in chai, you're getting You know, we've got to
think about it in a sensible way, and that having
a cup of tea absolutely is good for diversity. But
it's a very small amount of herbs compared to it
for adding large amounts into a meal. But tea does count,
and so does green tea as well. If we're mixing
(19:01):
it up and we're having say a matcher at the
end of the day instead of a second coffee. That's
absolutely ticking it off and beneficial for so many other
reasons too. But that's great. What you're doing is you know,
so easy, so effortless, and I'm sure would make everything
taste so much better that you've got that little bit
more variety and not just flavor, but color and texture
(19:24):
as well.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Absolutely, And I make it like my mission. If I
go and get something like fish bowl or missed a potato,
like a stuff potato, I'll always make sure that I
include veggies that I don't have at home in my
fridge so that it's just something. So you're not then
having to go out and buy extra things. You're just
making the most of what you have available to you
at the time. Because I feel like, again when I
(19:46):
throw it back to when I was growing up, and
I think a lot of our parents were the saying
where dinner was always like a meat and three vegge,
that's actually a really good way to build a meal
with meat and free edge like it's it's so it's
such a good way to look at it. And then
instead of just having like you know, sweet potato and
your chicken, just add a couple more things to it
and it's yummier, it's more delicious, getting more nutrients from it.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
And we also forget about oils. We can mix up
our oils day to day and they count for this
as well. So we can start the day with some
say flax seed oil and oil in a smoothie and
be ending the day with olive oil within our dinner,
but through the day, be using avocados, be using butter geek.
(20:32):
You know, there's so many effortless ways to use the
dry store and bulk buy, and this is something I
always recommend as well. If you've got it, you'll use it.
And so if you've got a range of oils in
the covert, you're going to vary it up. You've got
a range of seeds, nuts, legumes and grains in the cupboard. Again,
you're going to vary it up. Even if it's canned
(20:52):
legumes doesn't matter. And so then you can start to think, well,
maybe I'm going to make a rice mix instead of
just having brown rice, and I'm going to put spices
in there. I'm going to put say seed oil in there.
I'm going to put say some parsley, lemon, some seeds,
(21:12):
just with that carb base, which would usually be one ingredient,
you can get up to about seven or eight just
with what you've got in the cupboard. So we need
to be thinking smart about this as well. It doesn't
have to be all fresh. That can be a bit overwhelming.
But we look at our dry store and we go, well, actually,
I don't have any seeds in there. I'll tick that off,
pop that on top of my meals or in with
(21:33):
my carbs, nice and easily. God, you have.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Completely changed the way that I've looked at this, and
you've made it so simple for me. Because firstly, I
hate cooking. I'm just going to say it, I hate cooking,
so I'm all about simplicity, ease quick. But when I
think about something like a classic bag of rice, tuna,
spinach or something for lunch, instead of getting just a
packet of plain rice, you can get packets of like mixed.
(21:56):
I know, there's like briandwis quinoa, there's rice and chia,
So getting one of those and then getting a tuna
that's in olive oil with something like chili or lemon
or something else, and then straight away that's like six
things in a Oh my god, I feel like I'm
having any moment right now.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
And when you think about what you're doing, and I
do always get my patients to visualize all these hungry
little bacteria in our guts. Some people find it a
bit overwhelming. I think it's hilarious. And we think about
all these guys along the edge who haven't been fed
for ages, and then all of a sudden, Phoebe's having
like a different kind of lettuce and they're like, yeah, great,
(22:34):
that's my jam. They flourish, They cause a more beneficial
effect within the gut. You know, if we think about
how we're perhaps starving our bacteria versus feeding them all,
it's kind of this fun little thing of Okay, what
am I going to feed my bacteria today? And they
give back so much along the way because we are
our bacteria in many ways, and that can be daunting,
(22:56):
but it's pretty cool if you ask me.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
I think it is true. And you know what, my
mind went straight too. I feel like they should make
a Pixar movie about this, because I can just see
the cute little faces right now screaming, and it reminds me, actually,
you just unlocked a core memory. Do you remember back
when we watched free to air TV and there was
the commercial for your cult and it was inside your
tummy and there was all the bugs and they were
like yeay when they drunk.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
For your culs. Yes, and I'm pretty sure that's the visual.
I'm contrary and upset. Thank you for pretty two together,
super cute. Yeah, and even the bad ones are good
if they're crowded around other goods. So we think there's
just bad and good, but the bad can be good
if they're in a diverse community. So we have to
(23:39):
really think about this in a broader sense rather than
just this is bad, this is good. It's we want
variety to create harmony within our guts and within our bodies.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Oh, I love that. Do you think there is a
particular plant based food that is really really underrated? I
thought long and hard about this because I think all
foods are so great in different ways or whole foods,
but I think definitely the underrated.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
One that's on my rat at the moment is pomegranate.
We don't think about much except maybe at Christmas lunch
is where someone throws it on to a salad. Yeah,
pomegranate is one of the better foods. To help with
that microbial diversity. It really boosts our good bacteria, including
this group called Acamansia, and it doesn't wipe out everything else.
(24:27):
So we think about some particular herbs we can use
where it has a beneficial effect, but it also has
a negative effect on wiping out certain other bacteria. This
one doesn't have that effect and can be really useful
as an anti inflammatory if people have conditions like cibot,
or they get back from Bali and they've had a
bit of an upset stomach and it tastes amazing. It's
(24:48):
so accessible because we don't just have it as the fruit.
We can have it as a juice as long as
it is the whole one hundred percent juice, not of
the concentrates and all the rest that they can kind
of have out there. Then pomegranate most days in with
some sparkling water the start of the day or mid morning.
(25:10):
I do it all the time. Now is one of
the best things you can do for that diversity and
for your gut.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Oh, you have just unlocked another core memory in my head.
When I worked Atlanna Jane, we were so big on
the mixed fruit water and you just put like some
fresh mint, whatever kind of fruit you had, whether it
was strawberries, blueberries, watermelon, cucumber, lemon, ginger in water and
then boom, that's like ten in a drink of water.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Bit. Yeah, I mean, it's so accessible and we have
to make it delicious otherwise we're not going to do
it long term. Pomegranate it's nice, it's refreshing, it's easy
to drink, even if you've had a meal and feeling
a little bit stodgy afterwards. It can help to lift
your energy after a meal too. So we need to
be thinking of those things we enjoy, and those things
(25:57):
are going to have this long term benefit. If we're
enjoying them, we'll keep them in So definitely pomegranate, and
you'll probably hear more about it now that I've said it.
It's starting to become a bit more popular. But rightfully so.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, because I feel like too many people focus on
like the expensive, unnecessary superfoods without realizing that every plant
based food essentially is a superfood without the price tag.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
One hundred percent. Superfoods are great, have fun with them
once you've got the fundamentals right, But if you haven't
got the fundamentals, right, you jump straight to the superfoods,
it's a waste of time and money. What we want
to do is about build those foundations from the macro up.
So macros get that understanding, even if it is say
prepackaged food, then understand the micros and beautiful diversity. And
(26:42):
then hey, if you want to go and play around
with some of the green powders, the red powders, all
the powders, because they're great, but not if you're starting
on wobbly foundations.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
And this might be a bit of a captain obvious question,
but for someone listening who doesn't understand why it's important
to nurture all these bacteria in your stomach, is it,
for example, to keep that at a good base line
so that when you do do something like drink alcohol,
or you get sick and take antibiotics, or you eat
out and it might be a little bit higher and
like thatts and things like that, your body is able
(27:15):
to kind of recalibrate itself and deal with that.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
One hundred percent. Our body wants to be in balance.
It's this thing called homeostasis. And if we are just
a little bit off balance, we have a drink, you know,
a margarita on the weekend, we have some fatty food.
Body is really good at bringing it back into balance,
and that requires a stable gut microbiome, which also allows
for the home so the intestinal walls and the beautiful
(27:42):
mouecoss lay or layers that line the gut to be
working efficiently and effectively. Whereas if we don't have that diversity,
and we disrupt the gut by having you know, maybe
we're overseas traveling and we have something a little bit off,
or we're having too many drinks, then we can't get
back to that homeostasis, and that's when we can end
(28:02):
up having perhaps immune complaints gut issues because we've not
got that integrity in place to bring it back to center.
So when you are coming from these good foundations and
you've got good gut flora, you can actually tolerate a
little bit of anything you want really well, pretty much
(28:23):
symptom free. And that is so I think inspiring, because
it doesn't feel like, oh, I ate that bad thing
and now I feel bad. It's hey good, It's all
part of my diet. Eighty twenty. I have the margs,
I have the hot chips, and I still feel myself unstable.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
That's the goal, Honestly, that is the goal. And I
feel like for so many women, especially in your early twenties,
when you're starting to go through these kind of gut
issues and bloating and all of this stuff, your first
instinct is to cut everything out rather than add more
things in. And that was exactly my experience for so long.
I used to have the most limited diet of the
same thing, and I just couldn't understand why I was
(29:01):
in an eternal cycle of bloating and gut issues and
these tests and that test. And it wasn't until I
actually really like stripped it back. And it is so frustrate.
It must be so frustrating for you to as a
professional in this kind of space that people don't want
to hear the truth about how simple something is when
(29:22):
you strip it back. They want a quick fix, but
there isn't a quick fix. It's like balance is the
long term solution.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Oh absolutely. The whole premise of my practice is around
this balance concept, where it's not about cutting things out,
it's about including things in, but more specifically that are
suitable for you. Because if I'm sitting here saying okay,
here is a diet plan, just go do this, and
you go but I hate avocado, I hate this, that
upsets my stomach, Then you're not going to do it.
(29:52):
So if you've got that base foundation of knowledge, which
now it sounds like you've got, then you can kind
of play around with it yourself and you go, well,
I don't like that, I do like this, I want
to try this, and you can kind of feeling power
to build upon all this knowledge yourself. But long gone
are the days I think of restriction. It's all about
(30:13):
what we can include and those flavors and tastes that
we enjoy. It's about going seasonally, it's about going with
our hormones and our cycle, really honoring where we're at
and enjoying it.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
I think it's so liken to exercise, and if you
don't like running and you go for a run, you're
not going to do it consistently. If you don't like
bar but you continue to go to bar classes, you're
not going to do it Consistentlyans like, you need to
find what works for you and your body and just
disregard what you're seeing other people doing, because everyone has
their own preferences and that's okay.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Love it, and that's what makes us unique, and that's
the way we need to approach health, be it food,
be it exercise, be it self care. And that trust
has gone for so many women. That's what I work
with a lot in workshop that I'm doing at the moment,
where it's just bringing that trust back so women can go, hey,
it's okay, I can actually make those decisions for myself
and actually starting enjoying being healthy and happy, because so
(31:11):
many people go down the path of say joining the
gym and going, oh, I hate exercise, don't do it.
Then wait until you find something you like, even if
it's low intensity, and then build into it in the
way that suits you. We sometimes get a little bit
muddled with our relationship with health, and sometimes we need
to just strip back the layers and ask ourselves, well,
what do I need? So this is a really good
(31:31):
way to do it. Just be kind of thinking about food.
What foods do I actually like, What cuisines do I like,
What flavors do I like. Let's just start there and
make it nice and simple.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Love that, and I know that we're going to circle
back on that exercise movement discussion at another date before
we finish. Are there any common micronutrient deficiencies that women
in particular experience so that you see in clinic.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Absolutely, I see a lot of iodine deficiency, and people
don't really think about ioding too much, but it's from
anything in the ocean. And so if we're not eating
enough fish as an example, any of us eating seaweed
at the moment, but anything from the ocean, then we
can have quite easily iodine deficiencies. And iodine is so
(32:15):
important for our metabolism, for energy production. It's all about
our thyroid and thyroid hormone conversion and creation, and it's
not something that's regularly tested. Women are also low in iron,
but it's picked up pretty quickly so they know they've
got a deficiency, whereas I would say up to about
forty percent of the time that I'm testing iodine in
(32:38):
my patients, it's low. And when we help to improve
that iodine level, we don't just see an improvement in
thyroid and metabolism, but actually ovulation menstrual cycles as well.
So Idene's want to look out for fish in the
diet brilliant as long as it's good quality, but maybe
just check it every year or so, particularly if you're
(32:59):
prone to feeling really sluggish, low energy, maybe you can't
shift that weight. It could be thyroid iodine thing, so
definitely iding would be up there and one to check,
nice and simple. It's a urinary test, so you don't
even have to get a needle to test it.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Love it, Love it? And is that something you'd recommend
as a baseline for people just to get their bloods
done once a year just to check where all their
levels are at.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah, once a year is great. I mean, the young
you are, perhaps the less you need to unless there's
something specific going on. There might be some food groups
you're not including all particular stresses or family history. But
at a minimum, if we're just checking you know, vitamin B,
vitamin D, you're iron, your ioding, maybe zinc, copper, a
few of these mainstays, then if we can just go tick, hey,
(33:46):
I'm not deficient any of those, that's a big win
because we can be floating around with so many nutrient
deficiencies feeling really lackluster, and it's such a simple solution
to get those levels up. So about once every twelve months,
the GP will do most of them. Sometimes you will
need to get a functional practitioner to filling some of
those gaps, but for the most part, they're readily available
(34:08):
through GPS.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
But the beauty of the thirty base plant foods a
week is that you ideally shouldn't have deficiencies.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Anyway, absolutely, because not only are you eating those foods
with those micronutrients, but you're creating a harmonious environment within
the gut so it can absorb, and absorbing is just
as important as eating. So yes, that we've nailed that one.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Oh, I love it so much. So then just to finish,
what is one small change that someone can make today
to improve their micro and nutrient intake? And I feel
like you've already given us several hundred throughout this episode.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yeah. Look, I mean this is a bit of a
challenge and somewhat goes against what I've talked about with
including more, but it's a really effective one. It's real
eye opener. If we say, pick five days within the week,
just make the decision to not include white carbs and
see what happens, because a lot of us become a
(35:03):
little bit too reliant on say bread, particularly if we're
eating out getting sandwiches, maybe rice, maybe pasta. There's nothing
wrong with having these in our diet, but if we
take them out, it gives us an opportunity to go, well, actually,
what else would I have if I'm not having those carps?
And we might choose to have more of a diversity
of legumes and grains, not too many at once. We
(35:27):
might have a bit more starchy carbs like sweet potato instead,
and that gives us that challenge to move forward, but
also is very eye opening for us to go, well, actually,
maybe I'm eating too much of the one thing, because
that is how a lot of our restaurants and our
cafes are running these days on bread. So just want
(35:48):
to watch out for It's not a forever thing. Absolutely
include them back in, but you might choose the next
week to have a bit more diversity within the diet.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
And is that the whole concept of eating the rainbow?
Like you hear people talking about a lot.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
The old adage is true? Yes, And do you know what,
when we're eating the rainbow, we're happy. If you see
a bright colored meal, you are instantly happy and you
want to eat it. If you see a beige meal,
and I'm going to say, even if it's healthy, you
just don't want to eat it as much. Color has
a huge impact on not just our enjoyment of the food,
(36:21):
but the way in which we digest it because we
look at it and it triggers our brain owes, whoa,
I'm about to eat. Okay, let's get all these enzymes
and acids ready because this looks delicious, Versus if something's
bland and boring, it doesn't really trigger our brain to think, Okay,
we're going to eat something great. So eating the rainbow.
I know, we all know it. It sounds boring, but
(36:42):
it is one of the best things you can do
for your health.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
I feel like I still remember the exact moment I
saw for the first time on Pinterest a butter bowl,
and that completely changed in my mind what a salad was.
I used to think a salad was iceberg lettuce with
some cut up tomato and some cucumber. But when you
see something visually like a butda bowl, you see how
simple it is to put together a really colorful, delicious,
nourishing meal has probably ten different plant based foods in it.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
That's it. Yeah, upward, you know, it's such a great
way to eat. We don't always have the time to
eat perfectly like that, but we can take some principles
of it and go, my gosh, that buttter bowl ahead
on the weekend had an amazing glocal molli on the side.
Or I use fresh herbs, I love them. That's plant
something in the backyard and gets using them a bit more.
It's often things people want to do but they just
(37:31):
maybe haven't had that inspiration to get started. So going
to a cafeine eating a butterle bowl just stealing some
of their ideas brilliant, good start.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
I literally want to run downstairs right now into my
kitchen and make the most colorful, delicious breakfast I've ever seen.
I could talk to you about this for days, but
in the interest of time, we will wrap it up there.
Jennifer Ward, thank you so much. Can you just finish
by letting everyone know exactly where they can find you
and I will pop the information in the show notes
as well.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Absolutely, and thank you so much. I love talking about
this stuff. As you can see. You can find me
at Jennifer Ward dot com, also on Insta at Jennifer Board, Underscore, Ouchropath.
I've got an aligned to Thrive Workshop, which is teaching
people how to come back to their bodies, how to
come back to themselves. It's in person at the moment.
There will be some online in the later months, so
follow me to find out more and I would love
(38:19):
to hear from you if you have any feedback.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Amazing. Thank you so so much, Thanks so much, Thank
you so much for listening. Guys. I really hope you
enjoyed the episode, and don't forget to help a sister
out by following the podcast on Apple, on Spotify or
wherever you listen to your podcasts. Rate it, write me
a review, and if you want more Finish we do
have a private Facebook group. There is going to be
(38:43):
exclusive Q and A is happening with my guests in
that group. That's going to be events, going life first,
so much fun stuff happening. Just look up fit Ish
in brackets on Facebook and you can be part of
the Finish online community
Apogee Production. Welcome to Fit Dish. I'm Phoebe Parsons and
this is the podcast that proves that you don't have
to choose between staying fit and having fun. Welcome back
to the Podcassion of a Ward. I am so excited
to have you on again. It's been a little while
since I last spoke to you, but I always love chatting.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Thank you so much for having me again. It's always
so fun and I love the topics that you bring up.
I'm so excited for today.
Speaker 1 (00:35):
I'm so excited too, and I am such a nerd
about this topic. But what I want to talk to
you today is macro nutrients versus micro nutrients because I
feel like at the moment, and I think that you'll
feel the same, protein is the absolute eat girl of
nutrition at the moment, which I think is a great thing.
I for one, love my protein, but I feel like
(00:56):
in this instance, it's making micro nutrients a little bit overlooked.
Do you agree?
Speaker 2 (01:01):
Absolutely? And protein, in my opinion, will always be the
it girl. It is so so necessary. But yeah, I mean,
if we're learning about macros, we don't really have this capacity,
particularly initially to be even thinking about micros we take
one at a time and macros. You know, if you
have a base level of understanding, you need to put
(01:22):
some time into figuring them out first. But we don't
want to forget the micros because they're equally important for
a range of reasons.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Why do you think people are more obsessed with the macros?
Do you think it's just what's more spoken about because
it's kind of easier to wrap your head around.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
Absolutely, I mean it's easier to wrap your head around.
There's fewer of them to begin with, But it really
depends on the person. If you're coming and going, hey,
my goal is to lose weight to buff up, then
the macro conversation comes first and foremost. But if you're
someone who's saying, hey, you know what, I want to
make some healthy changes, then that might be the broader conversation.
(02:02):
But macro nutrients, they seem to be an easier concept
to get at your head around and an easier starting
place for so many people who are looking to get healthier.
I get it. I think it's a great place to start,
But there comes a time where we need to go, hey,
what about the micronutrients, or to have a chat about
them too.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
Yeah, because I was actually reflecting on this just yesterday,
and I was thinking that when I first started kind
of getting really into my nutrition and kind of being
really holistic and healthy with my diet, I sorry, and
first and foremost, if you're not sure what a macroverse
micro is, macronutrients are protein, fat, carbohydrates. Sorry, I should
have said that at the very beginning for people who
might not be aware of it. And micronutrients and things
(02:41):
that are found mostly in plants, salads, veggies, fruits, nuts, seeds,
et cetera. So I think when I was first starting
out and I was starting to get really obsessed with
tracking my protein as a starting point, a lot of
the food that I was consuming came from a packet
or it was pre made, just because it was simpler,
it was easier to understand, it was less time consuming.
(03:04):
But I think when I did that, I notice myself
eating far less micronutrients because you can't reheat salad, you
can't reheat fruit, for example. Like that kind of stuff
isn't necessarily found in food that's prepackaged or pre made.
Do you think a lot of people do fall into
(03:24):
that trap when they're first starting to take note of
their nutrition.
Speaker 2 (03:29):
Absolutely, and it's not a bad thing to buy pre
prepared meals. You are going to nail your macros so quickly,
but not just that, you'll gain a greater understanding of
what you're eating because it's literally written on the packet.
You can see it has these ingredients, and therefore it
has this much protein, this much carbs, this much fat.
So it's like pre training because when you go in
(03:51):
to do your own same meal prep or you're going
out to a restaurant, you'll be able to identify those
macros really really quickly. So I think it's an exceptional
place to start. If you don't have that based understanding
of macros, it's going to be hard to start to
get that understanding of micros after that. But there's a
few really quick and easy ways we can mitigate some
(04:14):
of those issues around pay not getting enough micros when
we're getting packaged through foods, which I'm sure we're going
to after But really I have no issue with those
prepacked meals at least for starting out that base level
of understanding around nutrition.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Yeah. Something I actually do, which we'll get into at
the end, is if I still do eat prepackaged food.
I mostly eat like pre made lunches, but I do
add some extra things to them that are a little
bit fresher, a little bit more microe Now, I want
to talk to you about the concept of I think
we spoke about this very briefly last time, but it's
something I'm very into at the moment, and that is
(04:51):
the concept around eating thirty different plant based foods a week.
Speaker 2 (04:54):
Now.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
I know that sounds fucking terrifying if you are just
hearing that for the first time now, because thirty different
plant based foods seems very overwhelming, But can you explain
a little bit about the science behind it?
Speaker 2 (05:10):
Yeah? Absolutely, I love this. I talk about this all
the time, and when it sounds daunting to begin with,
I want you to know it is absolutely easy. We
can do it. We can even get up to forty
or fifty with ease, and we've got some good accentips
we'll go into. But the science behind it is everything
comes back to our gut. And if we think of
(05:31):
our gut, as you know, millions and trillions of bacteria,
just like us, they have individual tastes. So if we're
always eating bread, we're always feeding that one hungry bacteria
who loves bread, and that bacteria might not be great
on its own. However, if we're having a range of
different foods, we're feeding all our microbio and we have
(05:51):
great diversity. And not only do we then have good
bacteria in our gut, but we're crowding out some of
those bacteria, which are fine if they're in low levels,
but if they're in high levels or they're in isolation,
and they can cause some habit in the gut. And
the gut is where we can regulate our bodies. So
talking blood glucose levels, energy levels, nutrient intake, anti inflammatory,
(06:16):
thyroid hormones, everything starts with the gut. And so if
we can really nourish that create a beautiful, diverse landscape.
And if we can even think about that concept as
we're eating, Hey now i'm eating. Now I'm feeding and
fueling a new bacteria because I'm introducing a new food
I've never had, then we can really get on board
with this idea of a lot about health stems from
(06:40):
the gut.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
And does that in turn then help us be able
to eat a broader range of food Because I know,
for example, when I learned that concept myself. I, for example,
I'm not great with legumes, but it's because I've avoided
legumes actively for so long. So is that because I'm
not actively feeding the microbiome in my gut that responds
(07:02):
beyond legumes. Yeah, so I need to like consistently eat
them a little bit more to build up my kind
of tolerance to it.
Speaker 2 (07:09):
Yeah, and anything new you are introducing, you want to
start small and build up. I think some of us
get a big gung ho and we go, hey, now
I'm going to eat legumes. Here's a can, i haven't
washed them, throw them all salad, and.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
Go, oh my god, five days in a row.
Speaker 2 (07:24):
I'm not going to do that again. Where the gut
needs time to change, and it will change over time.
So if we are adding a teaspoon, then a tablespoon,
then two tablespoons, and you'll get to this natural point
where you go, okay, that's enough. Much like meat, much
like fat, we all have these great tolerance points where
our body goes, you've had enough. I'm cutting you off now,
(07:45):
I'm going to make you bloat it if you'd anymore.
So anytime you are introducing new food starts, more work
your way out so.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
It's kind of like in the gym when you're working
in new muscle group or you're lifting weights you haven't
lifted before. You're going to get doms the next day
because it's something new for your body and your muscles
are getting used to it. You're not going to go
and do that for five days in a row because
you'll fuck your body up.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Literally, Absolutely, that's such a good analogy. I've never thought
of it that way, but everyone knows that feeling, so
the same goes for introducing new foods.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
Love it, And I think this is a really easy
trap to fall into, particularly if you're someone who does
meal prep. And like I said, if you're either meal
prepping or you're eating pre prepared foods for a majority
of the time, you're making the same dish or the
same recipe in larger quantities, which is totally fine, but
I think it's just something to be aware of. And
when I started tracking this, I'm such a loser. I
(08:34):
actually started an Xcel spreadsheet and I'm not even I
hate Excel. I'm terrified of Excel, but I really wanted
to nail this thirty a week. Can you explain what
actually counts as a plant based food because when I
first started tracking this, I just thought it was fruits
and vegetables, and I was like, there is no way
I'm going to get to thirty just on fruits and
vegetables alone.
Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yeah, oh, it's everything. Really, it's nuts, it's seeds, it's legumes,
it's vegetables, it's fruit, it's spices, it's herbs. Really, we
have so much to choose from, and it's an opportunity
to perhaps introduce these different food groups that we've kind
of forgotten about. So it doesn't have to be our duous.
(09:15):
It doesn't have to be foods we don't like. You've
got so much choice. You might go, oh, my gosh,
I forgot about macedamia nuts, or I forgot about basil,
and it's an opportunity to include them back in. So
we have so many ingredients there to work with it.
You know, when we do it right, it shouldn't be
a challenge. We shouldn't have to have Excel spreadsheets. We
(09:36):
should get to a point where we have these certain
foods in our diet, we go, my gosh, that's ten
just in that one meal, and then it becomes a
matter of you know, definitely at a baseline thirty, but
upwards of forty and fifty with so much ease and
so much enjoyment within the diet.
Speaker 1 (09:54):
And do they have to be completely fresh or can
things like frozen fruits count? Do things like jarred spices count?
Speaker 2 (10:03):
Absolutely? Yeah, we have to think about food on a spectrum.
You know, the more alive and energetic the better. The
more we process it, the more it loses its qualities
and micronutrients as well. But it all counts. If you're
having jammed from a jar, if you're having absolutely spice mixes,
which is that's where you're going to get to your
thirty really quick. Any foods that we're eating are going
(10:25):
to account to that.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
I love that. That honestly was such a game changer
because that then includes things like nut butters, almond milks,
like all of that stuff counts.
Speaker 2 (10:35):
Absolutely. Yeah. We honestly a lot of us might be
getting to that thirty without even realizing it.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Yeah, it's actually really interesting. The first time I wrote
it down, I was surprised at how far I got
without even kind of intentionally having to try. When you
actually get down to what you.
Speaker 2 (10:51):
Do eat and when you do when you get to
that thirty and it seems effortless. You can actually give
yourself a big pat on the back. You might say, oh,
I didn't eat that well this week. When you add
it up and see how much diversity you gave your
gut floor, that is a huge win. And that's an
area we can celebrate when other areas might not have
gone so well.
Speaker 1 (11:11):
I love that so much. Now I want to play
a quick little game with you. I don't want to
put you on the spot, but can you name thirty
different plant based types of food in sixty seconds?
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Oh my gosh, yes, I want to get to all right.
Speaker 1 (11:27):
I'm going to punt on my fingers.
Speaker 2 (11:28):
Ready, set go, blueberries, blackberries, pomegranate, mushrooms, broccoli, cauliflower, turmeric, basil, coriander,
black beans, lent tools, black rice, kinoa, oats, bananas, apples,
(11:49):
kiwi fruits, glasle sprouts, tale rockets. That's twenty. Oh my god, twenty.
I was going for thirty.
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Yeah no, no, that's twenty already, so we can do
ten more.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
Oh gosh, I'm sorry. Okay, all right, I've lost my track.
Pinto beans, doukah spice mix, sunflower seeds, cheer seeds, cinnamon,
milkm and butter, peanuts, cashews, and parsley.
Speaker 1 (12:22):
Woo thirty And when you say it like that, it
actually doesn't sound as overwhelming or intimidating.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Oh my gosh, I'm going through everything in my petrio.
I'm like, where is it goody in the fridge? What's
in the pover, what's going on? I love it.
Speaker 1 (12:36):
You absolutely charged like you charged into that blackberries, blueberse.
I love that so much.
Speaker 2 (12:41):
I went strong.
Speaker 1 (12:43):
Okay, So I want to talk about some simple ways
that people can boost their plant based foods because I
have a couple of tips, and I'm sure that you
have a couple of tips too.
Speaker 2 (12:53):
Yeah, there's so, so, so many ways to do it.
And this stuff really inspires me because I think sometimes
we get too caught up with how can I add
more vegetables, which is an important thing to do, but
we can get a lot of individual foods if we
don't necessarily think about the meal at hand, but like
(13:13):
you said, what we add to that meal. So, if
you're someone who maybe has a bit of anxiety about
trying new foods, maybe you're counting your macros and you
don't want to stray too much from that. Initially. Then
what we're looking at here is this area of toppers,
so condiments, herb, spices. So say you've got a meal
(13:33):
and it's broccoli, sweet potato and chicken, and that's literally
three ingredients. Maybe there's some olive oil in there too.
Then if we add something like pesto, what you're getting garlic,
you're getting basil, you're getting pineuts, you're getting lemon, you're
getting olive oil, you're getting all these parmesan as well.
(13:54):
You're getting six seven individual foods in that one condiment. Wow,
So it's really simple things. It doesn't have to be
completely revolutionized in the way. Wait, say then if you
want to add some spices onto the sweet potato, it
might be Duka spices, and then maybe you might want
to add some fresh coriander onto say the broccoli, then
(14:19):
you've probably added about ten to twelve ingredients. Even more,
if you're thinking of these spice mixes like Douka, which
have so much in them without really changing the landscape
of the meal, you can still see it. It still
looks the same, but essentially you've just enhanced it with
flavor whilst adding in all these unique foods. So if
(14:41):
in the case you're starting out and you think it's
all too much to change my diet. Don't just add
on those condiments, those fresh herbs, those spices, eaten some
lemon and olive oil, and you're already going to be doubling,
maybe tripling what you were doing within that meal already.
So that's my number one.
Speaker 1 (15:01):
That shit's on my hack. That is amazing. That is
so I've never thought about condiments before.
Speaker 2 (15:08):
Condiments are underrated, and we need to be using them
more because they're delicious. When we go to a restaurant,
when we go to a friend's house and they have
a whole bunch of condiments out, it's like a kid
of the candy store. It's the exciting part of the meal.
Put some chili on, put some homice on. You know.
You think about different cuisines that really utilize condiments well,
and I'm talking all types, you know, dip, seasonings, et cetera.
(15:32):
So you might have a beautiful bubble ganosh, you might
have a beautiful yogurt dip, you might have a beautiful humus,
and that's just all part of their day to day.
But we tend to slim things down, and particularly if
we're looking at it from a macro perspective. We like
things to be neat on the plate, so we go,
there's my protein, there's my cubs, there's my fat, done dusted.
(15:54):
So if we actually amplify the meal by even pre
making or buying some of these really complex, delicious condiments
spice mixes, then we can double in no time. But
for those that are really curious about making some more
fundamental changes to their diet, I usually recommend starting slow
(16:17):
and starting with one new meal per month. And that
doesn't sound like much, But if we can adding one
new meal, one new recipe, that we're really challenging our
cell phone. So it might be if anyone knows Ottolengi,
he uses a lot of spices, a lot of ingredients
within his meals. Then say at the end of the
(16:38):
year we get ten that we loved, maybe two we're
a bit of a fail. Then we've got ten more
meals in our rotation. So perhaps week by week, month
by month, we're including more meals out of a desire
to have that meal and including more diversity. But rather
as opposed to you know, finding a real struggle, it's
(16:58):
I really want to eat that Mexican dish, or I
really want to eat that favorite salad that I make here,
and there been curious setting some time aside to at
least once a month just try something new. Can do
wonders for diversity.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
I love those so so much. I'm definitely gonna try
that new recipe thing because I am such a creature
of habit, and this is why I want to do
this episode selfishly for myself to figure out how to
get more in. But some things that I have done
that have been so simple have been so My partner
and I eat basically the same kind of meal every
single night, and we rotate slightly the veggies we use,
(17:36):
the salads we use, We always use the same meats,
et cetera. I used to always base my salads and
my lunch is kind of just on spinach, but now
I'll buy the mixed salad bags because there's like five
different types of leaves in there, so straight away that's
going from one to five. So there's like spinach, rocket
that bush let us stuff like, there's so many different
(17:58):
like herbs and things like that in there as well.
I used to also just eat white potato, but now
will alternate between white sweet and pumpkin and just kind
of keep that on a bit of a rotation. I
instead of just buying like frozen blueberries or frozen raspberries
by themselves, or buy the mixed berry bags because then
there's different kinds of berries in those bags as well,
(18:20):
something I always do as well, which now I know
that this counts. I didn't even realize was contributing to
my plant based foods. But every time I go to
the grocery store, I buy those chocolate coated chai alments.
Have you had them before?
Speaker 2 (18:33):
I have not, but I'm oh.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
My lord, they are. I think they're only at colds
because it's in the pick and mixed section, but then
that's chai and that's.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
Almonds amazing, and it does it does include tea. If
you're in chai, you're getting You know, we've got to
think about it in a sensible way, and that having
a cup of tea absolutely is good for diversity. But
it's a very small amount of herbs compared to it
for adding large amounts into a meal. But tea does count,
and so does green tea as well. If we're mixing
(19:01):
it up and we're having say a matcher at the
end of the day instead of a second coffee. That's
absolutely ticking it off and beneficial for so many other
reasons too. But that's great. What you're doing is you know,
so easy, so effortless, and I'm sure would make everything
taste so much better that you've got that little bit
more variety and not just flavor, but color and texture
(19:24):
as well.
Speaker 1 (19:25):
Absolutely, And I make it like my mission. If I
go and get something like fish bowl or missed a potato,
like a stuff potato, I'll always make sure that I
include veggies that I don't have at home in my
fridge so that it's just something. So you're not then
having to go out and buy extra things. You're just
making the most of what you have available to you
at the time. Because I feel like, again when I
(19:46):
throw it back to when I was growing up, and
I think a lot of our parents were the saying
where dinner was always like a meat and three vegge,
that's actually a really good way to build a meal
with meat and free edge like it's it's so it's
such a good way to look at it. And then
instead of just having like you know, sweet potato and
your chicken, just add a couple more things to it
and it's yummier, it's more delicious, getting more nutrients from it.
Speaker 2 (20:09):
And we also forget about oils. We can mix up
our oils day to day and they count for this
as well. So we can start the day with some
say flax seed oil and oil in a smoothie and
be ending the day with olive oil within our dinner,
but through the day, be using avocados, be using butter geek.
(20:32):
You know, there's so many effortless ways to use the
dry store and bulk buy, and this is something I
always recommend as well. If you've got it, you'll use it.
And so if you've got a range of oils in
the covert, you're going to vary it up. You've got
a range of seeds, nuts, legumes and grains in the cupboard. Again,
you're going to vary it up. Even if it's canned
(20:52):
legumes doesn't matter. And so then you can start to think, well,
maybe I'm going to make a rice mix instead of
just having brown rice, and I'm going to put spices
in there. I'm going to put say seed oil in there.
I'm going to put say some parsley, lemon, some seeds,
(21:12):
just with that carb base, which would usually be one ingredient,
you can get up to about seven or eight just
with what you've got in the cupboard. So we need
to be thinking smart about this as well. It doesn't
have to be all fresh. That can be a bit overwhelming.
But we look at our dry store and we go, well, actually,
I don't have any seeds in there. I'll tick that off,
pop that on top of my meals or in with
(21:33):
my carbs, nice and easily. God, you have.
Speaker 1 (21:36):
Completely changed the way that I've looked at this, and
you've made it so simple for me. Because firstly, I
hate cooking. I'm just going to say it, I hate cooking,
so I'm all about simplicity, ease quick. But when I
think about something like a classic bag of rice, tuna,
spinach or something for lunch, instead of getting just a
packet of plain rice, you can get packets of like mixed.
(21:56):
I know, there's like briandwis quinoa, there's rice and chia,
So getting one of those and then getting a tuna
that's in olive oil with something like chili or lemon
or something else, and then straight away that's like six
things in a Oh my god, I feel like I'm
having any moment right now.
Speaker 2 (22:12):
And when you think about what you're doing, and I
do always get my patients to visualize all these hungry
little bacteria in our guts. Some people find it a
bit overwhelming. I think it's hilarious. And we think about
all these guys along the edge who haven't been fed
for ages, and then all of a sudden, Phoebe's having
like a different kind of lettuce and they're like, yeah, great,
(22:34):
that's my jam. They flourish, They cause a more beneficial
effect within the gut. You know, if we think about
how we're perhaps starving our bacteria versus feeding them all,
it's kind of this fun little thing of Okay, what
am I going to feed my bacteria today? And they
give back so much along the way because we are
our bacteria in many ways, and that can be daunting,
(22:56):
but it's pretty cool if you ask me.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
I think it is true. And you know what, my
mind went straight too. I feel like they should make
a Pixar movie about this, because I can just see
the cute little faces right now screaming, and it reminds me, actually,
you just unlocked a core memory. Do you remember back
when we watched free to air TV and there was
the commercial for your cult and it was inside your
tummy and there was all the bugs and they were
like yeay when they drunk.
Speaker 2 (23:18):
For your culs. Yes, and I'm pretty sure that's the visual.
I'm contrary and upset. Thank you for pretty two together,
super cute. Yeah, and even the bad ones are good
if they're crowded around other goods. So we think there's
just bad and good, but the bad can be good
if they're in a diverse community. So we have to
(23:39):
really think about this in a broader sense rather than
just this is bad, this is good. It's we want
variety to create harmony within our guts and within our bodies.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Oh, I love that. Do you think there is a
particular plant based food that is really really underrated? I
thought long and hard about this because I think all
foods are so great in different ways or whole foods,
but I think definitely the underrated.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
One that's on my rat at the moment is pomegranate.
We don't think about much except maybe at Christmas lunch
is where someone throws it on to a salad. Yeah,
pomegranate is one of the better foods. To help with
that microbial diversity. It really boosts our good bacteria, including
this group called Acamansia, and it doesn't wipe out everything else.
(24:27):
So we think about some particular herbs we can use
where it has a beneficial effect, but it also has
a negative effect on wiping out certain other bacteria. This
one doesn't have that effect and can be really useful
as an anti inflammatory if people have conditions like cibot,
or they get back from Bali and they've had a
bit of an upset stomach and it tastes amazing. It's
(24:48):
so accessible because we don't just have it as the fruit.
We can have it as a juice as long as
it is the whole one hundred percent juice, not of
the concentrates and all the rest that they can kind
of have out there. Then pomegranate most days in with
some sparkling water the start of the day or mid morning.
(25:10):
I do it all the time. Now is one of
the best things you can do for that diversity and
for your gut.
Speaker 1 (25:16):
Oh, you have just unlocked another core memory in my head.
When I worked Atlanna Jane, we were so big on
the mixed fruit water and you just put like some
fresh mint, whatever kind of fruit you had, whether it
was strawberries, blueberries, watermelon, cucumber, lemon, ginger in water and
then boom, that's like ten in a drink of water.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
Bit. Yeah, I mean, it's so accessible and we have
to make it delicious otherwise we're not going to do
it long term. Pomegranate it's nice, it's refreshing, it's easy
to drink, even if you've had a meal and feeling
a little bit stodgy afterwards. It can help to lift
your energy after a meal too. So we need to
be thinking of those things we enjoy, and those things
(25:57):
are going to have this long term benefit. If we're
enjoying them, we'll keep them in So definitely pomegranate, and
you'll probably hear more about it now that I've said it.
It's starting to become a bit more popular. But rightfully so.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, because I feel like too many people focus on
like the expensive, unnecessary superfoods without realizing that every plant
based food essentially is a superfood without the price tag.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
One hundred percent. Superfoods are great, have fun with them
once you've got the fundamentals right, But if you haven't
got the fundamentals, right, you jump straight to the superfoods,
it's a waste of time and money. What we want
to do is about build those foundations from the macro up.
So macros get that understanding, even if it is say
prepackaged food, then understand the micros and beautiful diversity. And
(26:42):
then hey, if you want to go and play around
with some of the green powders, the red powders, all
the powders, because they're great, but not if you're starting
on wobbly foundations.
Speaker 1 (26:53):
And this might be a bit of a captain obvious question,
but for someone listening who doesn't understand why it's important
to nurture all these bacteria in your stomach, is it,
for example, to keep that at a good base line
so that when you do do something like drink alcohol,
or you get sick and take antibiotics, or you eat
out and it might be a little bit higher and
like thatts and things like that, your body is able
(27:15):
to kind of recalibrate itself and deal with that.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
One hundred percent. Our body wants to be in balance.
It's this thing called homeostasis. And if we are just
a little bit off balance, we have a drink, you know,
a margarita on the weekend, we have some fatty food.
Body is really good at bringing it back into balance,
and that requires a stable gut microbiome, which also allows
for the home so the intestinal walls and the beautiful
(27:42):
mouecoss lay or layers that line the gut to be
working efficiently and effectively. Whereas if we don't have that diversity,
and we disrupt the gut by having you know, maybe
we're overseas traveling and we have something a little bit off,
or we're having too many drinks, then we can't get
back to that homeostasis, and that's when we can end
(28:02):
up having perhaps immune complaints gut issues because we've not
got that integrity in place to bring it back to center.
So when you are coming from these good foundations and
you've got good gut flora, you can actually tolerate a
little bit of anything you want really well, pretty much
(28:23):
symptom free. And that is so I think inspiring, because
it doesn't feel like, oh, I ate that bad thing
and now I feel bad. It's hey good, It's all
part of my diet. Eighty twenty. I have the margs,
I have the hot chips, and I still feel myself unstable.
Speaker 1 (28:39):
That's the goal, Honestly, that is the goal. And I
feel like for so many women, especially in your early twenties,
when you're starting to go through these kind of gut
issues and bloating and all of this stuff, your first
instinct is to cut everything out rather than add more
things in. And that was exactly my experience for so long.
I used to have the most limited diet of the
same thing, and I just couldn't understand why I was
(29:01):
in an eternal cycle of bloating and gut issues and
these tests and that test. And it wasn't until I
actually really like stripped it back. And it is so frustrate.
It must be so frustrating for you to as a
professional in this kind of space that people don't want
to hear the truth about how simple something is when
(29:22):
you strip it back. They want a quick fix, but
there isn't a quick fix. It's like balance is the
long term solution.
Speaker 2 (29:30):
Oh absolutely. The whole premise of my practice is around
this balance concept, where it's not about cutting things out,
it's about including things in, but more specifically that are
suitable for you. Because if I'm sitting here saying okay,
here is a diet plan, just go do this, and
you go but I hate avocado, I hate this, that
upsets my stomach, Then you're not going to do it.
(29:52):
So if you've got that base foundation of knowledge, which
now it sounds like you've got, then you can kind
of play around with it yourself and you go, well,
I don't like that, I do like this, I want
to try this, and you can kind of feeling power
to build upon all this knowledge yourself. But long gone
are the days I think of restriction. It's all about
(30:13):
what we can include and those flavors and tastes that
we enjoy. It's about going seasonally, it's about going with
our hormones and our cycle, really honoring where we're at
and enjoying it.
Speaker 1 (30:26):
I think it's so liken to exercise, and if you
don't like running and you go for a run, you're
not going to do it consistently. If you don't like
bar but you continue to go to bar classes, you're
not going to do it Consistentlyans like, you need to
find what works for you and your body and just
disregard what you're seeing other people doing, because everyone has
their own preferences and that's okay.
Speaker 2 (30:47):
Love it, and that's what makes us unique, and that's
the way we need to approach health, be it food,
be it exercise, be it self care. And that trust
has gone for so many women. That's what I work
with a lot in workshop that I'm doing at the moment,
where it's just bringing that trust back so women can go, hey,
it's okay, I can actually make those decisions for myself
and actually starting enjoying being healthy and happy, because so
(31:11):
many people go down the path of say joining the
gym and going, oh, I hate exercise, don't do it.
Then wait until you find something you like, even if
it's low intensity, and then build into it in the
way that suits you. We sometimes get a little bit
muddled with our relationship with health, and sometimes we need
to just strip back the layers and ask ourselves, well,
what do I need? So this is a really good
(31:31):
way to do it. Just be kind of thinking about food.
What foods do I actually like, What cuisines do I like,
What flavors do I like. Let's just start there and
make it nice and simple.
Speaker 1 (31:42):
Love that, and I know that we're going to circle
back on that exercise movement discussion at another date before
we finish. Are there any common micronutrient deficiencies that women
in particular experience so that you see in clinic.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
Absolutely, I see a lot of iodine deficiency, and people
don't really think about ioding too much, but it's from
anything in the ocean. And so if we're not eating
enough fish as an example, any of us eating seaweed
at the moment, but anything from the ocean, then we
can have quite easily iodine deficiencies. And iodine is so
(32:15):
important for our metabolism, for energy production. It's all about
our thyroid and thyroid hormone conversion and creation, and it's
not something that's regularly tested. Women are also low in iron,
but it's picked up pretty quickly so they know they've
got a deficiency, whereas I would say up to about
forty percent of the time that I'm testing iodine in
(32:38):
my patients, it's low. And when we help to improve
that iodine level, we don't just see an improvement in
thyroid and metabolism, but actually ovulation menstrual cycles as well.
So Idene's want to look out for fish in the
diet brilliant as long as it's good quality, but maybe
just check it every year or so, particularly if you're
(32:59):
prone to feeling really sluggish, low energy, maybe you can't
shift that weight. It could be thyroid iodine thing, so
definitely iding would be up there and one to check,
nice and simple. It's a urinary test, so you don't
even have to get a needle to test it.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
Love it, Love it? And is that something you'd recommend
as a baseline for people just to get their bloods
done once a year just to check where all their
levels are at.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah, once a year is great. I mean, the young
you are, perhaps the less you need to unless there's
something specific going on. There might be some food groups
you're not including all particular stresses or family history. But
at a minimum, if we're just checking you know, vitamin B,
vitamin D, you're iron, your ioding, maybe zinc, copper, a
few of these mainstays, then if we can just go tick, hey,
(33:46):
I'm not deficient any of those, that's a big win
because we can be floating around with so many nutrient
deficiencies feeling really lackluster, and it's such a simple solution
to get those levels up. So about once every twelve months,
the GP will do most of them. Sometimes you will
need to get a functional practitioner to filling some of
those gaps, but for the most part, they're readily available
(34:08):
through GPS.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
But the beauty of the thirty base plant foods a
week is that you ideally shouldn't have deficiencies.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Anyway, absolutely, because not only are you eating those foods
with those micronutrients, but you're creating a harmonious environment within
the gut so it can absorb, and absorbing is just
as important as eating. So yes, that we've nailed that one.
Speaker 1 (34:31):
Oh, I love it so much. So then just to finish,
what is one small change that someone can make today
to improve their micro and nutrient intake? And I feel
like you've already given us several hundred throughout this episode.
Speaker 2 (34:42):
Yeah. Look, I mean this is a bit of a
challenge and somewhat goes against what I've talked about with
including more, but it's a really effective one. It's real
eye opener. If we say, pick five days within the week,
just make the decision to not include white carbs and
see what happens, because a lot of us become a
(35:03):
little bit too reliant on say bread, particularly if we're
eating out getting sandwiches, maybe rice, maybe pasta. There's nothing
wrong with having these in our diet, but if we
take them out, it gives us an opportunity to go, well, actually,
what else would I have if I'm not having those carps?
And we might choose to have more of a diversity
of legumes and grains, not too many at once. We
(35:27):
might have a bit more starchy carbs like sweet potato instead,
and that gives us that challenge to move forward, but
also is very eye opening for us to go, well, actually,
maybe I'm eating too much of the one thing, because
that is how a lot of our restaurants and our
cafes are running these days on bread. So just want
(35:48):
to watch out for It's not a forever thing. Absolutely
include them back in, but you might choose the next
week to have a bit more diversity within the diet.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
And is that the whole concept of eating the rainbow?
Like you hear people talking about a lot.
Speaker 2 (36:01):
The old adage is true? Yes, And do you know what,
when we're eating the rainbow, we're happy. If you see
a bright colored meal, you are instantly happy and you
want to eat it. If you see a beige meal,
and I'm going to say, even if it's healthy, you
just don't want to eat it as much. Color has
a huge impact on not just our enjoyment of the food,
(36:21):
but the way in which we digest it because we
look at it and it triggers our brain owes, whoa,
I'm about to eat. Okay, let's get all these enzymes
and acids ready because this looks delicious, Versus if something's
bland and boring, it doesn't really trigger our brain to think, Okay,
we're going to eat something great. So eating the rainbow.
I know, we all know it. It sounds boring, but
(36:42):
it is one of the best things you can do
for your health.
Speaker 1 (36:44):
I feel like I still remember the exact moment I
saw for the first time on Pinterest a butter bowl,
and that completely changed in my mind what a salad was.
I used to think a salad was iceberg lettuce with
some cut up tomato and some cucumber. But when you
see something visually like a butda bowl, you see how
simple it is to put together a really colorful, delicious,
nourishing meal has probably ten different plant based foods in it.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
That's it. Yeah, upward, you know, it's such a great
way to eat. We don't always have the time to
eat perfectly like that, but we can take some principles
of it and go, my gosh, that buttter bowl ahead
on the weekend had an amazing glocal molli on the side.
Or I use fresh herbs, I love them. That's plant
something in the backyard and gets using them a bit more.
It's often things people want to do but they just
(37:31):
maybe haven't had that inspiration to get started. So going
to a cafeine eating a butterle bowl just stealing some
of their ideas brilliant, good start.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
I literally want to run downstairs right now into my
kitchen and make the most colorful, delicious breakfast I've ever seen.
I could talk to you about this for days, but
in the interest of time, we will wrap it up there.
Jennifer Ward, thank you so much. Can you just finish
by letting everyone know exactly where they can find you
and I will pop the information in the show notes
as well.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
Absolutely, and thank you so much. I love talking about
this stuff. As you can see. You can find me
at Jennifer Ward dot com, also on Insta at Jennifer Board, Underscore, Ouchropath.
I've got an aligned to Thrive Workshop, which is teaching
people how to come back to their bodies, how to
come back to themselves. It's in person at the moment.
There will be some online in the later months, so
follow me to find out more and I would love
(38:19):
to hear from you if you have any feedback.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Amazing. Thank you so so much, Thanks so much, Thank
you so much for listening. Guys. I really hope you
enjoyed the episode, and don't forget to help a sister
out by following the podcast on Apple, on Spotify or
wherever you listen to your podcasts. Rate it, write me
a review, and if you want more Finish we do
have a private Facebook group. There is going to be
(38:43):
exclusive Q and A is happening with my guests in
that group. That's going to be events, going life first,
so much fun stuff happening. Just look up fit Ish
in brackets on Facebook and you can be part of
the Finish online community
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com