The Trouble With Toying Around in Archetypes and Branding

In Person, we discover why songwriters and business folk alike benefit from fresh eyes that ask the right questions, revealing how collaboration creates outcomes greater than the sum of their parts.

Principles explores whether archetypes offer genuine strategic value for businesses or simply provide convenient shortcuts to avoid the hard work of authentic brand development.

Problems exposes dubious attempts to charge for Google indexing services that should always be free, reminding us that snake oil salespeople are always finding new bottles.

And in Perspicacity, we examine the peculiar trend of executives creating AI-generated action figures of themselves, highlighting the troubling difference between what we can do and what we should do.

Are we creating meaningful content or just chasing dopamine? Get ready to take notes.

Talking About Marketing podcast episode notes with timecodes

02:00 Person This segment focusses on you, the person, because we believe business is personal.
When Another Set of Eyes Asks the Perfect Question

What can business owners learn from musical collaborations? Quite a lot, it seems. Drawing from an anecdote about a young composer seeking feedback from a musical theatre legend from Econtalk episode Weep, Shudder, Die: The Secret of Opera Revealed (with Dana Gioia), we discover the power of the perfect question at the right moment.

The story features a nervous student bravely presenting a rock opera-style composition based on Ayn Rand’s “Anthem” to a renowned composer. After the impressive performance, rather than offering generic praise or criticism, the master simply asks: “In that instrumental section—what will be happening on stage?” This deceptively simple question opens up entirely new dimensions of thinking.

Steve and David explore how this mirrors their experiences in business mentoring, where often it’s not expertise but rather fresh perspective that catalyses breakthroughs. “It’s that wise old head asking that little bit… What are your characters doing on stage at that time?” Steve notes, highlighting how external viewpoints can illuminate blind spots we’ve developed through overexposure to our own work.

The conversation reveals a particularly Australian challenge: our tendency toward isolation in small business compared to more collaborative approaches in other entrepreneurial cultures. “In the place that’s meant to be fixated on rugged individualism, there’s a heck of a lot more trying to socialise, connect, and just add value in the ferment of enthusiasm,” David observes about American business culture.

12:00 Principles This segment focusses principles you can apply in your business today.
Archetypes as Branding Shortcuts – Compass or Crutch?

When Jane McCarthy’s work on feminine archetypes in branding enters the conversation, both hosts approach with healthy scepticism while remaining open to potential value. “I think archetypes are such a double-edged thing,” David reflects, cutting to the heart of the matter: “It’s nice to be recognisable, but if you’re recognisable as an archetype, are you necessarily being recognised as you?”

The discussion reveals that archetypes might function best as internal navigational tools rather than external identities. McCarthy’s concept of a “hometown hostess” archetype, as quoted from Marketing Over Coffee episode, The Goddess Guide To Branding, demonstrates how these frameworks provide shorthand for brand behaviour – a “true north” that teams can understand even when founders or consultants aren’t present.

This sparks reflection on the mindset behind effective branding: not just selecting colours or crafting taglines, but establishing behavioural patterns that guide decision-making. “Every time you see it, it reinforces quickly… how it is to be on track when you are representing the brand, when you are living as the brand,” Steve explains.

The hosts conclude that archetypes might complement rather than replace frameworks like StoryBrand, potentially offering valuable shortcuts when they help teams stay aligned with founding principles. The key insight emerges: an archetype without a story lacks context, while a story without consisten