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May 14, 2024 45 mins

Trevor Oldham, founder and CEO of Podcasting You, shares his journey into real estate investing and podcasting. He discusses the benefits of using podcasts to grow your real estate business and raise capital. He shares success stories of investors who have raised significant capital through podcasting, and provides a clear roadmap for general partners (GPs) who want to hit the podcasting circuit and appear on podcasts as well as for those who want to start their own podcast show. Additionally, Trevor provides the red flags he looks for as a limited partner (LP) in deals and how you can keep those things in mind when you appear on podcasts to maximize your capital raises.

 

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Episode Transcript

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(00:22):
Hello and welcome to the active commercialreal estate investing show brought to you
by the one and only school of commercialreal estate investing.
Today, I'm joined with Trevor Oldham.
Trevor is the founder and CEO ofPodcasting You, which he founded in 2017
in response to the necessity foroutstanding real estate investors to have
the opportunity to spread their message onhigh ranking podcasts.

(00:44):
So far,
Podcasting You has worked with over 400real estate professionals and booked over
6 ,500 interviews.
As an investor, Trevor invests in triplenet, multifamily, and self -storage deals
in addition to investing in mortgagedebts.
Trevor, welcome to the show.
Thank you, Patrick.
Super excited to be here and excited tochat with you today.
Yeah, well, to get started, let's firstdive into the two things that you bring

(01:10):
together in Podcasting You, which is realestate investing and then podcasting
itself as a way to grow your funds, yoursyndications and your real estate business
at large.
So can you give our audience just abackground in terms of how you got into
real estate investing in the first
Yeah, most certainly.

(01:31):
So I would say the way that I entered realestate was just through my podcasting
company and I was working with a businesscoach.
I mean, he said to me, why don't youinvest in real estate?
And I thought to myself, well, I don'tknow.
I never really thought about investing inreal estate.
I, at that time, I thought that I didn'twant to go into be more in the active role
when I was thinking of like single familyrentals and different things like that.

(01:51):
I felt as though I'd be too passive as alandlord.
I feel like people could walk over me.
I just, I'd be too friendly.
So I realized I didn't want to be alandlord.
And then that's where it took me sort ofwent down this rabbit hole of just going
on like Bigger Pockets and just learningmore about the passive side of investing.
And that's really what took me.

(02:11):
I was like, "Oh, like I can invest in adeal where I give you $50 ,000 and then
you go out and you buy a $12 millionapartment complex" where on my own, if I
was trying to go out and buy that $12million apartment complex, you know, what
do you need?
You know, 3 million down plus whateverclosing costs and additional fees and
different things like that.
I realized by going through syndications,I can invest in these deals.

(02:33):
And then the other just sent me down awhole rabbit hole of just talking to
different sponsors and learning all thedifferent asset classes.
It's like, you almost don't even knowwhat's possible.
Once you, I initially thought like, okay,it's just multifamily.
And then I learned about like triple netleases and then self storage.
Then, I mean, you could go through, Imean, you have like your mobile home
parks, you have your life insurancesettlement companies, which is pretty

(02:56):
crazy.
Then
you can even go further like oil and gasand just learning about all the different
investments.
It really just started from my company andreally just pushing myself outside my
comfort zone because I would be a non-accredited investor.
And for those listening, basically whatthat means is I can't invest in a 506 C
deal and by not being able to invest in a506 C deal, I can't be marketed to.

(03:19):
So I have to be the one reaching out tothe sponsors and starting that
conversation with them.
They can't be the ones doing it to me.
It's just per SEC
guidelines.
So I had to do a ton of networking to getin contact with these sponsors, talk to a
lot of different sponsors.
And I think that gave me a good feel ofthe different types of investments that I
wanted to go with.
And then also the types of sponsors that Iwanted to go with.

(03:39):
But yeah, I think more than anything, itwas being pushed by my coach.
And then also realizing that I had beeninvesting like 401k, IRA, and I can't
touch that till 59 and a half.
And I realized I enjoy the podcastingbusiness, but I don't know if I want to be
doing this for another 30 years.
So what's the way I can start generatingsome cashflow now that could potentially

(04:00):
replace my income.
So it was just a, it was a kind of amixture of all those different things.
Yeah.
And so you mentioned that you already hadyour podcasting business established prior
to investing in real estate.
How did you first get into podcasting?
Yeah, so it was back in 2015.
I was actually running a different companyat the time and I thought it would just be

(04:21):
cool to go out and start a podcast becausewe had grown like a really, it was
basically like a motivational basedcompany where it's now a little bit more
popular now, but you can go on Instagramand you would see like motivational
quotes.
So we had that and we grew to like ahundred thousand Instagram followers
within like six months, like 400 ,000Facebook followers, very easy to scale the
brand.
I was more worried if someone comes alongand like Instagram just shuts us down or

(04:45):
Facebook shuts us down, then we lose a lotof our traffic.
What's the traffic that we could own?
And that would be going through thepodcast.
Cause I knew on the podcast, there'snothing to take down.
It wouldn't be like, we weren't talkingabout anything bad or anything like that.
So I thought I wanted to go out there andstart this podcast just to build another
medium.
And we're just interviewing like investorsand entrepreneurs, just different business

(05:06):
folks and did that for about two years.
And I really just got like burnt out ofthat company, just put in a lot of effort,
a lot of time.
And I found that people like motivationalbased content.
I mean, we were getting like 10 ,000 likesa post, but when it came to like selling
courses and eBooks, people, I know theyreally wouldn't buy it as much.
So it was like just burning both ends.

(05:26):
So I figured I needed to break and I juststarted freelancing out.
So I use a platform called Upwork and Iwas finding people to edit their podcasts,
to write a recap of their episode, whichcan be.
which could be considered show notes.
And then I came across a turnkey realestate investor out of LA that wanted to
get booked on podcasts.
I had never done that before.
I thought to myself, well, I booked allthese guests on my show.

(05:49):
I think at the time with my podcast, I hadabout 60 or so episodes.
I wish I would have just kept doing it,but now it's, you know, I stopped doing
the podcast back then when I, when Istopped running the company, but long
story short, started working with her andthen just started finding other clients to
work with.
And I was,
early on I was working with any clientthat I could, whether they were a real

(06:10):
estate investor, whether they were alawyer, politician, health coach.
I mean, you, you name it.
I was working with them.
But after about two or three years ofdoing that, I was like, I'm just burning
like again, burning myself hot here.
What's like one niche that I could go allin on that I really like to work with.
And then that just became, I love workingwith real estate investors.
I'd always had an interest investing inreal estate.

(06:32):
I'd gone out and got my real estatelicense thinking that that would help me
invest in real estate.
that doesn't really, it doesn't reallyhelp too much unless I wanted to save on
commissions or, or certain things likethat.
So I really liked the real estate niche.
I loved working with real estate clients.
So I just made the decision, I thinkprobably back in 2019 now, Hey, let's just
only work with folks in the real estatespace.

(06:53):
And then obviously within the real estatespace, there's tons of niches within the
space.
Like I know we were talking about beforeall the different asset classes.
So I found it just been that, that goodsweet spot.
for me and you know, over time I've builtup the team.
I think the first year was just me andthen I brought on like the first employee,
year two, and then, you know, sort of juststarted to scale, you know, on a small

(07:13):
scale.
And I think now we're up to like seven oreight team members that we have on our
team.
But yeah, honestly, I never reallyexpected it to be a business.
You know, I didn't go to school for PR oranything like that.
That's what we could be considered.
Kind of just, hey, this is like my fourthbusiness I've tried and it's making money.
Like why not just keep rolling with it?
And here we are seven years later.

(07:34):
Very exciting and a very fun journey.
And I appreciate that, you know, you werepersistent about something that you were
passionate about and found a way tomonetize it.
And then you still continued to pivotuntil you found what was really working
and then just started to scale that.
So kudos to you for going down that pathand persevering through that path, because
I know that it is not a straightforwardone.

(07:55):
It's not a clear one and it's not an easyone.
And I'm sure there were lots of,
moments of self doubt along the way, butglad that it's all worked out for you and
that things are thriving at the moment.
So with Podcasting You in present day,you're focusing on real estate investors
and supporting
investors. And you do two sides of it,

(08:19):
right? So you support investors increating their own podcasts and then you
support them in being booked as, featuredguests on others,
correct? Can you
both sides of that and maybe the benefitsof each and why commercial investors
should be taking podcasts seriously.
Yeah, most certainly.

(08:39):
So I would say that I have found that thenumber one reason that folks start a
podcast more often than not in a realestate space is just to build that brand
awareness, to go out there and build thatcredibility.
And it could be twofold.
If you're going out there and going onpodcasts, you could have a media section
on your website where a potential investorcan come to you and you can think about it

(09:01):
on your about page on your site.
Maybe it's a paragraph, maybe it's twoparagraphs.
It sounds really nice.
It goes over your experience, but now allof a sudden,
you have that media section on your pagewhere someone could come through and that
they could listen to your interviews thatyou've done.
There's that aspect of it.
And then on the flip side, if you're apodcaster, someone could listen to the
podcast episodes that you've done.

(09:21):
And that also helps to build credibilitywith your audience.
When it comes to each of them, I typicallyrecommend that depending on your
experience, which one you should do first.
So if you're someone that's moreexperienced, then it might make sense for
you to go out there.
and be a guest on people's podcasts first.
Where if you're someone that's a littlebit newer to this space, maybe it's

(09:41):
someone that's only been doing this a yearor two, and it might make more sense for
them to start their own podcast, whereit's gonna be harder because there's a lot
of competition out there.
So for you to go out there and to go onthese podcasts if you don't have a ton of
experience, it's just gonna be a littlebit trickier to get yourself booked.
Where when I was starting that company,again that I mentioned in 2015,

(10:04):
I wasn't making a whole lot of money inthe company and I just started that
podcast.
I was just bootstrapping everything on myown.
And I mean, there's a number of servicesthat you can go out there now to edit your
podcasts and different things like that.
It really doesn't have to be thatexpensive.
And I found that it just allowed me tofigure out what I wanted to do with the
company by just interviewing thesedifferent individuals.

(10:25):
And for someone that's going out there andstarting a podcast, all of a sudden you're
networking with these differentindividuals that are coming on your
podcast.
And I almost used it like a mastermind perse, where instead of me reaching out to
someone and saying, "Hey, can I pick yourbrain for 30 minutes?" I would say, "Hey,
do you want to come on as a guest on mypodcast?" And not that everyone would say

(10:46):
yes, but there are quite a few people thatwould say yes.
And then I would get to talk to them for30 minutes for an hour.
And I found that that was just verybeneficial for me, just from a learning
curve standpoint.
So you can imagine if you're a commercialreal estate investor and you've been doing
it a year or two,
and now all of a sudden you'reinterviewing people that have been doing
it five years, 10 years, 15 years, 20years.

(11:07):
Think about all the knowledge that thoseindividuals have where you're learning
from them.
So that's where I like that aspect ofhaving my own podcast where sometimes when
you're a podcast guest, like you're up tothe questions that the podcast host is
going to be asking you where when you haveyour own podcast, you can ask whatever
questions you want of the guest.
And I think I've never had a guest belike, no, I'm not going to answer that

(11:28):
question.
I mean, that's.
I remember talking like real estatepodcasts and mine was a business podcast.
So it's not like we're asking like totallyout there questions or anything like that.
But at the end of the day, I think itreally just comes down to the time that
you have where if you're hosting apodcast, it could be, you know, there's a
lot more that goes into it.
It's booking the guests on the show.

(11:49):
Even if you have a service like ours thatdoes that, but you still got to prep for
the show.
You still got to like know who you'regoing to be talking to on the interview.
And then you have like
30 minutes, 16 minute interview that youhave to conduct.
And it's just like, there's more to itbeing a host.
But if you have that time availability,then that makes sense.
If you're, Hey, I'm strapped on time.
I can only do 30 minutes a week, an hour aweek.

(12:12):
Then it may make sense for you to be moreof that podcast guest when it comes to
your experience.
So I don't think there's a right answer.
I found at least for me that starting apodcast when I didn't have,
a lot of success or when I was building mycompany, that made more sense.
And then as I started to get that success,then it made sense for me to go on
podcasts.
And I honestly prefer doing both of them.

(12:33):
But again, I don't want anyone to be likeoverwhelmed thinking that they have to
have both because I find that establishinglike that one foundation.
Okay.
I'm going to go on five podcasts a month.
So I'm going to do one podcast a week.
Okay, I did that for six months.
Now I'm going to launch my podcast.
Now I have sort of a schedule built out ofwhen I'm going to go on shows.
Now I'm going to build out the schedulefor when I'm going to have guests on my

(12:54):
show.
So I think you just got to plan it becauseit's a lot of work being a guest, but it's
even more work being a host.
So you just got to make sure you're,you're prepared and you're ready for all
that that takes.
Yeah, yeah.
Thanks for providing that overview.
And as you mentioned, you know, one of theprimary benefits of both appearing on

(13:15):
other people's podcasts or hosting yourown is kind of this expert positioning of
yourself in the space to some degree,paired with the exposure that it can bring
you.
Right.
And I think that one of the really strongadvantages of podcasts in general,
is this ability to kind of break distanceand connect with other people who you may

(13:40):
not even know, right?
Like people can tune into an episode thatyou appeared on or an episode that you
recorded from across the country at a timewhere you're sleeping or doing something
else.
And they, to a degree, start to build arelationship with you.
And so I think as an investor and as a GPin commercial deals, by building those

(14:01):
types of
distant relationships almost on autopilotbecause these episodes are evergreen.
Once they're published, they can beaccessible 24 seven, you know, for however
many years in the future the show hostsit.
And so I think building thoserelationships over time and kind of doing
that network on autopilot really comesback to be beneficial down the road as

(14:26):
you're starting to look for investors fora deal or whatever the case is.
So,
can you speak a little bit about maybesome success stories that you've
personally seen with investors who haveeither started their own podcasts or have
made an effort to appear on podcasts?
Yeah, most certainly.
So it's like one story comes to mind onthe podcast guesting side where we work

(14:46):
with this individual out of Kansas City.
And I think he went on 20 or so podcastsand I think he raised at least a million
bucks from it.
He didn't give us the exact number otherthan he said he got 25 new investors out
of it and has been a typical minimum of 50K.
So, you know, just doing a simple math, 20times 50 K, not even doing the 25.

(15:07):
So,
that was really cool success story.
I mean, for the most part, we want to goafter like those accredited investor
folks.
And for those listening your accreditedinvestor.
So those are the folks that are going tobe investing in your 506C deals.
The 506C deals.
Those are probably the most readilyavailable deals that are out there.
So then you gotta work your way back.
Okay.
Who's your accredited investors?

(15:27):
You figure, okay, it's gotta be someonethat either A) has an income of $200 ,000
or B) has a joint income between husbandand wife for $300 ,000.
They're typically going to be yourdoctors, your lawyers, dentists, sales
professionals, potentially your businessowners as well.
And I'm just trying to place them on thosetypes of podcasts.
So just being selective with the showsthat you're going on, cause there's a lot

(15:48):
of different podcasts that are out thereand some are more just general helpful in
real estate, where it makes sense ifyou're like a real estate coach to go on
and you're like a service provider orsomething along those lines.
But if you're looking to raise capital, itmight make sense
more so go on those podcasts.
And that's just something we had to learnas our company, as we started to learn,

(16:08):
you know, really why people are going onthe podcast.
Like, why are we getting all these realestate investor clients?
Oh, because they want to raise capital.
Why do they want to raise capital?
Because they want, you know, to go out andbuy more deals or to fund their current
deals, you know, and given them thatlittle marketing injection.
But yeah, I think that was the, ourbiggest success story
Yeah, that's amazing and you know, greatreturn on time for sure.

(16:28):
If each of those episodes was 30 minutesto an hour to then do a handful of them
and have a new set of investors with amillion dollars cash, you can go and
deploy on a deal.
That's fantastic.
Thank you for sharing that.
Let's dive in to each one of these avenuesa little bit more.

(16:49):
So let's say that I'm a GP and
I don't have time or I'm not interested injumping over all the hurdles of starting
my own show, but I am interested inleveraging podcasts by appearing on other
people's shows.
What's kind of the roadmap you recommendfor individuals to start doing that?

(17:11):
Yeah, so I recommend typically the waythey like to look at it is like, hey, how
many podcasts have you been on before?
So if you haven't been on too manypodcasts or if you've been on a few, it
really depends, you know, what theirexperience is at the end of the day.
And if you've been on, let's say five to10 podcasts, so you start to get an
understanding of the flow, you understandwhat's going on.

(17:31):
Maybe you have your story down at thatpoint.
You've you just talked about your story,your bio, you've gone over it a couple of
times.
Now you're not going to fumble when you'regoing through it.
So when those individuals, okay, it's likethat makes sense.
Let's start to go out there and get youon, you would say like a medium podcast,
your larger podcasts.
You can think of just shows that have beenaround for like a year or longer for

(17:51):
someone that is a little bit newer.
So the podcasting space, maybe theyhaven't been on a show before.
I typically just recommend starting off orshows that are a little bit newer just
that way
you can just get more practice on thoseshows.
And not to say like we work with clientsthat are very successful, but I find that
more so in the real estate space andpretty much on any other niche that I had

(18:11):
worked with ever is that they're verysmart.
They know what they're doing, but they'realso very introverted and can be hard for
them to hop on a podcast.
And I find that's like the biggest reasonpeople don't do these podcasts interviews
is they're almost like they don't knowwhat to expect and they're nervous.
So it's like, okay, like how do you getover that?
Well, the only way to really do that is togo on podcasts, but like we don't want to

(18:33):
burn going on like a larger podcast thathas a really good following and it's been
around for a while.
And maybe it's one of the more, you know,it's like a brand name podcast just cause
it's been around.
Like let's just say like Joe Fairless Iknow he just had his Best Ever conference
a little while ago.
So he's like, you know, he'd be a name inthe industry that people are familiar with
just given how long he's been in hispodcast has been around, I don't know, for

(18:54):
a very long time.
Now like it wouldn't make sense if you'venever been on a podcast to go on like his
podcast because it's a really goodopportunity.
And if you don't know, what you're goingto be talking about, you're very nervous.
Then it's just not going to work out.
And I can speak from experience.
I remember I just started to go back onpodcasts again and I went on, I think it
was like Whitney Sewell's podcast, thereal estate syndication show.

(19:15):
That's like a perfect fit for like mytarget client
and I just like felt like I just didn't doa good job because I'd only, I'd only gone
on like two or three podcasts beforetalking about the power of podcasting
within the real estate space.
I was like, man, you know, like I wish Iwould've just gone on a couple more of the
smaller shows just to get more, a littlebit more practice and refine my story and

(19:36):
then gone on his show.
So I didn't like burn that bridge becauseI can't be like, Hey, can I go back on
your show?
a month after I went on, I think I don'tthink I did a good enough job.
You know, maybe six months later I couldask him.
So that's sort of what I would do is Iwould just start with your experience
level, figure out how many shows have youbeen on and then just really work it out
from there.

(19:56):
And then you really just have to puttogether like a nice one sheet.
And for those listening who might not knowwhat that is, you can think about it.
It's almost like a PDF or a media kitwhere you, in a nutshell, you could put in
your bio, you could put in questions youwant the host to ask you, topics you want
the host to ask you, or just, you know,recommendations you can give the host.

(20:16):
You can include your links to your socialmedia accounts and you can include links.
to your previous podcast appearances,different things like that.
So you just want to include that in a onesheet.
Like on our team, we have a designer thatjust does that for our clients.
But I mean, you could probably go outthere and hire someone if you want to go
the cheaper route, just Fiverr, Upwork.
I mean, there's any number of designersthat could do it.

(20:37):
And then from there, it's just puttingtogether your podcast pitch.
So this is what you're going to be sendingoff to the podcast host.
And it's more or less like why you'd be afit for the show, why you like their
podcast, a little bit more about yourbackground, and then you include your one
sheet.
And then at that point, it's justresearching shows.
So there's two different, or I guessthere's three different databases you
could use.

(20:57):
There's one called ListenNotes, there'sone called Rephonic, and then you just
have your regular old iTunes.
My preference is Rephonic.
I find that that platform typically worksthe best.
Listen Notes has been around a while, I'veused both of
them. They're probably gonna run you about100, 150 bucks a month each to use, but
they're very good when it comes toresearching

(21:18):
shows. You can research your newer shows,there's just a lot of filters on
them. I could go on iTunes and type in
real estate investing podcasts.
And it's going to show me shows thathaven't had an episode produced in two
years.
And it's just going to be like, it's notgoing to be enjoyable to do that where I
can go on Rephonic and search for realestate podcasts that have five to 10
episodes, five to 15 episodes that are thenewer podcasts that, you know, have a

(21:43):
daily show, a weekly show, a monthly show.
So there's a lot of features and toolsthat you can use on those two platforms.
So I recommend doing that.
And then really just building out yourpodcast list.
from them and then reaching out to theshows and yeah, just really going, going
from there and seeing how the feedback is.
I mean, hopefully if you do a good enoughjob, you'll start to hear back from these

(22:04):
podcast hosts that want to have you on.
And I mean, if you don't, you got to goback through and, and maybe recreate that
pitch, maybe recreate the one sheet alittle bit more, but yeah, I mean, you'll
get the feedback from the podcast host.
So no one's responding to you.
Then you know, you got to tweak something,but hopefully you'll at least get yourself
a few bookings if you go that route.
Thanks for sharing all that.
I feel like that's a great foundationalplan that's pretty straightforward to

(22:28):
follow.
Definitely requires a lot of work, butit's not overly complicated, which I think
is one of the things that can be a barrierfor many people.
So just to quickly recap, you know, youfind a set schedule for yourself in terms
of what your goal is and how many showsyou want to appear on over what period of
time you create a
pitch for yourself effectively in terms ofhere's my experience, here's my

(22:51):
background, here's my bio, here are somequestions to ask me, here are some good
topics to talk about with me.
You compile all of that into a designedone page PDF that you can send off to show
hosts.
You then search for shows that would be agood fit for what you're trying to do and

(23:12):
begin reaching out to those people withyour one -sheeter.
which again is a very straightforward andstreamlined plan that I really appreciate.
Another thing that you mentioned that Ithink is really wise is reaching out to
smaller and newer shows first.
I think that there's this misconception ina lot of ways of, if I'm gonna be on a

(23:35):
podcast, it has to be the biggest and bestpodcast right out the gate, right?
Otherwise it's not worth my time.
And I disagree with that because I thinkto your point, like if you haven't,
done this much before, it's really good toget practice.
And the more practice you get, the better,just kind of all around.
And I think a lot of the newer shows aremore eager to have people on than some of

(23:56):
the bigger shows.
So I think it's a win -win situation inthe sense of like, if a newer show is
focused on your niche and you have someexpertise in that niche, they're going to
be interested in having you on more orless and vice versa.
you are going to have the opportunity thento work out some of your own kinks as a
guest and nail down your talking pointsand the things that you want to hit in an

(24:21):
interview to then build your practice andmove forward with larger shows.
So I just think that's a reallyintelligent place to start.
Smaller shows definitely don't have like abad rap per se.
It's just that they're smaller than someof the big ones.
So now that we've we've talked about whatpeople can do from the perspective of
being a guest on a show, what would yousay on the flip side of that?

(24:46):
Let's say like someone has done a fewshows as a guest and is really enjoying it
and sees the value in doing it and doesn'tfeel like it's overly complicated in terms
of the technical requirements and allthat.
What would you recommend a GP do when theywant to start their own show?
Yeah, most certainly.
So I think the first and foremost is gottacome up with some sort of a plan.

(25:09):
And I was thinking about even ourpodcasting company where I wanted to go
out and just launch a podcast, justtalking to different GPs and talking to
different passive investors on how theymarket their real estate business.
But I had known from starting a podcastthat it's a, it's a lot of work that goes
into it.
What I had done is I wanted to go throughand do all the prep work on the back end.

(25:32):
So I wanted to basically like start toformulate a plan out of everything that I
needed that was gonna be going into thepodcast.
And was it gonna be me?
Was it gonna be someone on our team doingit?
And what I mean by that is I knew I wasgonna be the one hosting the show.
I would be the one putting together like aguest list of people I want to interview,
but I'm like, okay, I'm going to delegatethat to someone on my team.

(25:52):
Okay.
How do I make sure I never run out ofguests?
Like what systems of processes have to beput in place for that?
So I never run out of guests.
So that was like the first step that Istarted to plan for and I'm like, okay, I
want to do five interviews and just, Iwanted to have 10 interviews, but I wanted
to launch with five interviews.
That was just sorta my plan, how I wantedto do it.
I'm like, okay, starting interviews inJanuary, if I want 10 interviews, how many

(26:17):
do I want to do per week?
Okay, maybe I want to do no more than fourinterviews per week.
I think I have like a time slot set up onlike Tuesdays and Thursdays, just, you
know, one hour each just because I find ifI do any more than that, I'm just going
to, you know, it's a lot of work that goesinto a podcast interview.
So I don't want to burn myself out.
So like no more than four interviews aweek.
Okay.
Now if I do four interviews over Januaryand February, when can I launch and March

(26:41):
at some point?
So started to figure that out.
I'm like, okay, I have that down.
Okay.
Now,
What do I want the title of the podcast tobe?
What do I want the description of the showto be?
Figuring that out, hiring for the coverart of the show.
And these are just all like the backendlegwork they have to do when starting the
show.
And then from there I went through and Iwas like, okay, who's going to be editing

(27:02):
the podcast?
So, you know, have the team to puttogether on that.
Someone from our team that was going to behelping out with that.
It's like, okay, who's going to be helpingout with the social media?
Aspect of it like once the interview hasgone live who's gonna create the social
media clips?
Who's gonna be sending it off to like theguest saying like hey your interview has
gone live here the social media clips.
Here's where they go.

(27:22):
Who's gonna be scheduling them out on oursocial media account?
So I just I walked through Pretty muchevery scenario of what I wanted my podcast
to look like so the big things are youknow?
How often am I gonna be conducting theinterviews?
When's the podcast gonna be going live?
Who's gonna edit the podcast?
Who's going to put the podcast up on ourwebsite?
Who's going to create the social mediaclips?
And there's companies out there that dothis, that all the, you know, it's a lot,

(27:44):
but I found that like we do it all at ourcompany.
So I was trying to figure out like, it'salmost like putting our systems and
processes to the test to figure out likewho's going to be doing what.
Because I find the reason podcasts fail ispeople just have this expectation that
they're very easy, that you can just sitdown, you can record the interview.
And that's that, but there's no sort ofgame plan behind that where you want to

(28:06):
make sure like, okay, you want to, youwant to be consistent with it.
So how can you be consistent with it?
Maybe you have episodes pre -recorded thatmaybe go out a few weeks after you have
the interview with the individual becauseyou have this backlog that way in case
you're taking a vacation or somethingcomes up in your personal life and you
just can't record an interview that weekor for a month, the people are still going

(28:26):
to be able to listen to your show.
So,
now you're taking, you know, that's alllike the backend legwork.
Now as you're coming in as a GP, you couldthink about, okay, who do I want to have
as a guest on my podcast or do I just wantto do solo podcast episodes where maybe
I'm just going through helpful content.
And by what I mean by helpful content ismaybe you're talking about, one week
you're talking about a particular assetclass.

(28:48):
The next week you're talking about aparticular market.
Maybe you're talking about the state ofthe market and commercial real estate
as a whole, you know, that could be like asolo podcast that you do and you don't
have guests, but if you're having guestson your show, who are the guests that you
want?
Do you just want anyone in the commercialreal estate space?
Do you want folks that are just LPs comingon and talk about their experience

(29:10):
investing in commercial real estate?
Do you want to make sure of both?
And then as you start to go through, youstart to formulate your podcast.
And then from there, it's just pretty muchlaunching the podcast.
It's conducting the interviews and thenjust being consistent.
But yeah, it was just really more or lessputting those systems and processes
upfront where now I get to do theenjoyable part of, I just record the

(29:30):
interviews.
Right.
And once you have your systems down andyou've had guests on and you're publishing
shows, I feel like that is that's partone.
And there's a lot that you just mentionedthat goes into part one.
Then part two is what you do with thatmedia afterwards, because I think that's

(29:51):
where the magic of podcasting reallyhappens, especially, you know, as we were
talking about earlier,
with this kind of 24 seven networking onautopilot.
What type of strategies or playbook do youtypically like to implement and have you
found success with your clients in termsof repurposing that media or sharing that

(30:13):
media and really getting it out there togrow the podcast's listenership and
exposure?
Yeah, most certainly.
So I find the medium that works the bestwe found happens to be LinkedIn.
We find that that's where your high networth investors, your professionals, you
know, that's really more where theygravitate towards.

(30:34):
So you could take a say a 30 minuteinterview and you could create five to
seven different clips for it.
And you can go out there and have to putit out there on your LinkedIn, maybe do
one piece of content every single day.
And then that's going to sort of,
allow you to build that credibility,people to find out more about you.
Then they start to find out about yourpodcast and then they start checking out

(30:56):
that podcast.
So I definitely recommend, I mean, you'vespent all this time on the interview.
Why not go that extra step and hiresomeone or have, you know, put out the
social media content.
It's like on our end, when we werestarting to build this out, I went through
a lot of different folks.
I went through like on Upwork and Fiverrjust trying to find folks that would edit

(31:16):
a 30 minute interview and create five toseven clips for us.
Honestly, it was like a nightmare tryingto find good social media.
you'd have folks where you have thecaptions in and they just wouldn't be
correct.
There'd be misspellings.
It just like, there was one where, whereI'm the host of the show, right?
And I have the guest on the show and it'sjust like, the clips are only me asking

(31:37):
the questions, but none of the responsesfrom the guests.
So it would just be like, you know,Patrick,
know, you're going through asking me aquestion and that's the whole clip.
There's no more to it.
So different things like that.
So we actually use a tool now it's calledKapwing K a P W I N G and it's super
inexpensive.
It's like 24 bucks a month and we justthrow the interviews up there and it'll

(31:59):
automatically create like snippets.
It creates 10 different clips about aminute each from pulled from the
interview.
And then from there we'll go into eachclip.
Maybe we have to make the clip a littlelonger.
Maybe we have to make it a little bitshorter, but it takes a lot of time off of
us editing it.
And I just have someone on my team now andgo through it.
Cause I was just so frustrated goingthrough different social media editors

(32:22):
where again, it wasn't that good.
And that tool I find works great.
And yeah, I find that again, you've spentthe 30 minutes on the interview.
Why not go that extra step and create thepodcast and create these social media
clips?
Cause I find for me, LinkedIn has been thebest source when it comes to generating
new clients and leads for my company overthe last year or so.

(32:42):
And I found that by doing interviews andputting them out there on LinkedIn, by
putting other content on LinkedIn likethat really helped, but
after a while you kind of like, it's hardto think of seven posts to write every
week when you're sitting down on yourcomputer.
So if I could just take one interview thatI did and create the social media clips
from it and then use that, like, it's alot, it's a lot easier.
Exactly.

(33:03):
And just to tie in something that youmentioned earlier, which is that when you
started your first podcast, you mentionedthat you were using it as an opportunity
to network and learn yourself.
And I think that that's one of the greatthings about being your own podcast host
is that you're inevitably going to askquestions that yes, they benefit your

(33:25):
audience for the sake of benefiting youraudience, but they're also going to
benefit you.
Because
inevitably you're going to have questionsabout this thing that you're pursuing,
which is likely what your show is about.
And you are going to be asking those typesof questions to the guest.
And I feel like that's always a greatfilter, because if it's helpful to you as

(33:46):
the host, then there's somebody else outin the world where that same response or
answer information is also going to bebeneficial and helpful for.
And so I feel like by
kind of structuring some of your questionsand your interview flow that way.
You then have these chunks of informationthat are really beneficial.

(34:06):
And to your point, then you just slicethem up and reshare them throughout the
course of a week or a month or a year,whatever the case is.
And you start to get some of thatevergreen content going and working on
your social media channels, which thenover time will build the audience, build
your brand, build your reputation withinthe space, et cetera.
So,

(34:27):
certainly a great play there in terms ofmedia publication for the purposes of
raising capital as a GP in commercial realestate.
So thank you very much for sharing that.
I know we're coming up here on time andwe've talked a lot about how GPs can

(34:48):
leverage podcasts either as being a gueston different podcasts or launching their
own,
and some very actionable concrete stepsthat they can take to go either direction.
I'm curious now, you are an LP in a numberof commercial deals.
For those listening who aren't familiar,LP stands for limited partner, which means

(35:08):
you're an investor in commercial deals,but you're not the one doing all of the
active work behind it.
And I'm curious, I imagine that you havemet some of the GPs, the general partners
of your deals,
via podcasting.
What are some of the things you look forwhen you're vetting a general partner to

(35:29):
invest with?
And I think this would be really greatinsight and information for the general
partners listening so that as they appearon podcasts or start their own, they have
a little bit of a framework and someinsight in terms of what they should or
shouldn't be doing as a speaker.
Yeah, more certainly.
I would say more so than them from thepodcasting space, but just thinking of the

(35:50):
companies and the folks that I investedwith for your newer GPs, one just being on
time to the initial intro call.
I've had folks where I think I talked tothis gentleman about, I don't know,
probably about a month ago and just togive you some long story short.
It was only a 15 minute call.
So just quick get to know you and heshowed up like 10 minutes late to the
call.

(36:10):
So we had five minutes left and then thatwas, that was the call.
So how much can I really learn about yourcompany?
There's a ton of different sponsors andoperators out there.
Like if you're going to be late to thecall.
So like that's like the first red flagthat I find in different GPs outside of
that.
I find that folks where I come on and thatall they talk about is like their
experience and they don't ask about me asan LP, like what I'm looking to

(36:33):
invest in because maybe like what you'reoffering isn't exactly what I'm looking
for in this moment, but I like to be onyour investor list so things like that
where there's been times where I'm on a 30minute call and all they do is they tell
me all about their experience I mean I'vegotten down to like people where they
graduated college and their degrees andI'm like that's nice to know but that's
not gonna pertain to me as a passiveinvestor.
I want to learn about your company but Ialso want to have you like like does what

(36:58):
I'm looking for makes sense?
Let's say like right now I'm looking forlike a cash flowing opportunity where if
you're a Class C property and you're goingto do a heavy value add deal, there's not
a ton of cashflow in that.
But if you're more your Class A property,maybe there's going to be more cashflow in
that because there's not a lot of valueadd to the property.
It's more, just more cashflow play less ofan equity play.

(37:18):
So maybe like you do a mixture of both.
Maybe you buy both Class A and Class Cproperties, you know, maybe depending on
what I'm looking for in that point intime.
I would say outside of that, like themarkets I'm looking to invest in.
I know before we hopped on where I'vetalked to someone for like 30 minutes and
then they tell me, we only work inCalifornia.
Like, well, I don't want to invest inCalifornia.

(37:39):
You know, I want to invest in more redstates, like your Texas, your Georgia,
your Florida, your Arkansas, WestVirginia, Ohio, Indiana.
Those are the states that I like.
I would prefer not to invest inCalifornia.
I love visiting California.
You know, it's a great state.
Just prefer not to invest there.
Similar with me living in New York, enjoyliving in New York.
We prefer not to invest in the state.

(38:00):
So just different things like that.
Just having an understanding of like whereI'm coming from on the LP side, like what
I'm looking for in the different marketsto make sure aligns with what you're
doing.
Outside of that, I'd say over performingthe returns that you're going to be
stating.
So like it's easy for someone to come inand say, Hey, we got a 40 % IRR in '21
where everyone is, you know, having a lotof success back

(38:22):
in '21, but like, can you withstand andhave that same IRR?
No, I mean, to give you some context, someguy gave it was like, Hey, we give
Christmas bonuses to all our investors.
I was like, well, that like sounds toogood to be true.
So like, that's like, you know, maybe youdo that.
Maybe you don't.
Another one, it was a 200, it was like acarbon, carbon depreciation recapture, 200

(38:43):
% depreciation on it.
So like for that, that sounded too good tobe true.
And that one actually ended up being aPonzi scheme.
So like that, that sponsor definitely wasnot, was definitely not a good sponsor.
So that sounded too good to be true.
So at least for me, like if you'repromising, like, Hey, we can knock it out
of the ballpark.
Well, if you're saying like, Hey, we'redoing a 40 % IRR and it's just a simple

(39:04):
value add.
I'm like, are you going to be hittingthose numbers?
Because I know a 40 % IRR, like that's aheavy value.
There's a lot of risk that comes into it.
And obviously you're going to get a betterreturn, but on a simple value add deal,
maybe I'm getting a,
a 15 to 22 % IRR where I'm taking a littlebit more risk.
So I find that the sponsors, theyoverstate how much return I'm going to be

(39:27):
getting from them.
So I'd rather the sponsor would be moretruthful for me.
And then outside of that, it's acommunication style.
Typically after I talk to a sponsor, I'llemail them over a question and depending
on how fast they get back to me or whattheir response is.
Usually I like, I'm just looking for likethree to five business days.
I'm not looking to, you know, someone tobe like, answer me within an hour, but

(39:49):
there's been sponsors where I ask him aquestion about their deal and they get
back to me like two or three weeks later.
And I think to myself, well, I haven'teven invested in your deal.
I haven't even gave you my 50 K like,what's it going to be like once I invest
with you, are you going to, you know, justnot be have good communication.
So just having good communication as a GP,that's very important.
And then the last thing I would say,

(40:11):
that at least I personally do would belike, I don't know if it's about lying,
but I'll go to sponsors and when I'm readyto invest with one of them, I'll be like,
Hey, I'm going to be running a backgroundcheck on you.
Is there anything that I should be awareof?
And some of them will be like, like youmight see this, you know, I might've had a
tax lien on my property cause I was goingthrough a divorce Like, okay, like that
makes sense.
Why you got that, that tax lien.

(40:33):
But there's only been one instance wherethe guy like, should I be aware of
anything on your background check?
no, you know, gotta come back clean.
He had like a bankruptcy like five yearsago.
It's like, well that's that's a pretty biglife changing event.
I don't think that you would forget that.
I'd rather you like tell me like whathappened.
I mean, everyone goes through hardships.

(40:53):
You know, maybe you just, maybe you made acouple of bad deals and you learned from
it because now you're five years furtheralong and you're like,
Hey, this is what I learned from it.
This is what I'm doing differently.
Now I'd rather you be truthful for me.
Again, that's only come up one time whereI've had someone just like forget
something major in their life.
But at least for a lot of the passiveinvestors that I talked to, a lot of them

(41:15):
do the same, similar due diligence onthese deals.
So it's not just me doing that's actuallywhere I learned the background trick was
from this talking to different passiveinvestors.
But yeah,
I'm really just looking for like, does my,what I'm looking for match with like what
you, what you do, you know, how's yourcommunication style?
Do you get back in a timely manner?
You know, how are your returns?
Are you just inflating your returns?

(41:36):
Just different things like that.
at the end of the day, like as an LP, Inever expect to invest 50 K and lose it.
But I think that's just a lot ofresponsibility on the GP side to just be a
good GP.
Cause I mean, once I wire you the money, Imean, it's almost like we're in a marriage
for
you know, three, five, seven years at thatpoint.
There's a lot of value in everything thatyou just mentioned.
And one of the things that I'm hearingloud and clear is that if you are a GP or

(42:03):
an aspiring GP and you're going to gothrough the effort of finding your own
deals, funding your own deals, operatingyour own deals, being on podcasts to raise
capital, potentially starting your ownpodcast to raise capital, all of that is
important and
necessary.
But at the end of the day, it all boilsdown to still doing the small things well.

(42:29):
So if you go through all this effort ofbeing on a bunch of podcasts to get
exposure to raise capital and then limitedpartners and accredited investors are
reaching out to you saying, "Hey, I heardyou on this podcast.
I want to invest with you.
What deals do you have?" If you're notfollowing up with them in a timely manner,
if you're not being truthful with them,
if you're not being realistic with them.

(42:51):
These are all very simple, fundamentalthings, but you could blow all of the work
that you did with the podcast exposure ifyou're not doubling down and doing those
fundamental things well.
So I think hearing your perspective as anLP is incredibly valuable because you,

(43:12):
what you just mentioned are the targetaudience and
the ideal persona that a lot of GPs shouldbe thinking about when they go on podcasts
or when they start their own podcast.
Because if they're not, then who are theytalking to?
Right.
They're trying to attract you.
Therefore, these are some things theyshould keep in mind and also follow

(43:33):
through with after the fact when the showis published and people start reaching
out.
So thank you so much for sharing that.
And I know we're at time here, so we'llwrap it up.
But thank you.
very much for coming on, sharing yourwisdom about the whole podcasting space
and the benefits that it can have allaround for GPs.

(43:55):
Where can people connect with you andlearn more about you if they're interested
in doing business with you or having youon their show?
Yeah, most certainly.
So they can check out our website,podcastingyou .com.
So just podcastingyou.com.
From there, you can just book a discoverycall with our team.
Or if you want to reach out to medirectly, you can just find me on

(44:15):
LinkedIn.
It's just going to be my name, TrevorOldham.
Just shoot me a connection request.
Always happy to chat there and share mypersonal calendar link from there as well.
But yeah, those are really the two spotsbetween our website and LinkedIn.
Wonderful.
Well, Trevor, thank you again so much forcoming on today and look forward to
talking more with you in the future.
Thank you.
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