February 29, 2024 • 52 mins
Menopause? Estrogen? Progesterone? Who's in perimenopause? Me!
My guest today is Shirley Weir, the founder of Menopause Chicks. Although this podcast mainly features BIPOC folks, I invited Shirley as I have admired her work since we met in 2017. She has done so much to educate the world about menopause. Shirley is a fierce advocate for women’s health.
In this (mini) master class, we talk about hormones, the healthcare system, how it affects folks who identify as BIPOC, and what we can do to be more proactive about our journey.
Shirley launched Menopause Chicks 12 years ago onto the world stage to empower women to talk openly about perimenopause and menopause, navigate midlife health information, and connect to women’s health professionals.
Shirley always begins by reminding women they deserve to feel amazing. She teaches hormone health and supports women eager to invest in their health and learn to be their best advocate.
Based in Vancouver, Menopause Chicks reaches over 300K women in 10 countries. She hosts a popular private community with over 54K members.
Links: Menopause Chicks
Article: Women’s Experience with the Healthcare System in BC 25 years of research shows insidious effect of racism on Black women’s menopausal transition, health Book: Estrogen Matters
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
2019, so five years ago, I went on thetoday show in New York and as I was
stepping onto the stage, the producerwhispered in my ear, she said, by the
way, we don't say vagina on this show.
And you know, what's missing in thisdialogue is the fact that the piece that
(00:28):
we've all missed is no one sat us downand Told us this is the role of estrogen
in your body and this is the role ofprogesterone and because we've lacked
that our society has taken us down arabbit hole that says, if it's broken,
here's all the ways you can fix it.
(00:48):
As opposed to, here's how your body works.
Welcome to conversations withyour Chinese auntie podcast.
My guest today is Shirley Weir.
(01:09):
Although this podcast mainlyfeatures BIPOC folks, black,
indigenous people of color.
I wanted to invite Shirley hereas she has done so much educate
the world about menopause.
I met Shirley in 2017 whenwe were part of the forum.
Which helps women entrepreneurs connectand access the needed resources.
(01:32):
We stayed in touch over the yearsand I have witnessed how Shirley is
a fierce advocate for women's health.
Shirley is the founderof Menopause Chicks.
She launched Menopause Chicks 12 years agoonto the world stage to empower women to
talk about menopause and perimenopause.
To navigate midlife health informationand connect women's health professional.
(01:58):
In this mini masterclass, we talkabout hormones, the healthcare system,
how it affects folks who identifyas BIPOC, and what we can do to be
more proactive about our journey.
If you are like me and most of myfriends or know anyone navigating
menopause right now, I highlyrecommend joining Shirley's community.
(02:22):
Links are in the show note.
Good morning, Shirley.
Hi, Patricia.
How are you?
I'm great.
This is exciting.
Please introduce yourself.
What do you do?
Who are you?
Where you live?
Whatever seems important to youto share with the listeners.
(02:43):
Absolutely.
So, my name is Shirley Weir.
I'm the founder of menopausechicks.
com.
I will be 57 years old.
Probably by the time you're listeningto this podcast, and I started
Menopause Chicks 12 years ago.
I'm on a mission to ensure that everyonehas access to hormone health education
(03:08):
and information, and that we feelconfident to navigate perimenopause
to menopause to postmenopause.
Oh, that's wonderful.
Uh, I'm interested tohear your journey to this.
Very.
Why Manifest Chicks?
And I wanted you to come on because you'vedone so much good work in this community.
(03:31):
and educating folks about menopause.
Share with us a bit about your journeyto starting menopause tricks and maybe
also what did you do before that?
Yeah, so I approached thisquestion a few different ways.
One is my own personal health journey.
So as I mentioned, I'm turning 57.
(03:53):
I grew up not wanting to talkabout periods or bodily functions.
This was not on my radar at all.
And, and then I got married, I had,had two children around age 39.
I was really stressed out, maxed,didn't realize it at the time to be,
it sounds a little weird in reflectingupon it, but I couldn't sleep.
(04:19):
I had brain fog that was reallydebilitating and I was self employed.
I've always worked inmarketing and communications.
And so I was trying to run a business,run a house, two small children, and
my aging mother had come to visit usand stayed because she wasn't well.
And so she was here for sixmonths, showing signs of dementia.
(04:40):
There was all of that.
Which probably sounds like a lot ofpeople that you and I both know, right?
We have a tendency tohold up a lot of plates.
I was maybe in denial a little bit thatthings were changing and that I wasn't
prioritizing my health and I wantedto blame something that was external.
(05:05):
I was like, I'm going to go to my doctor.
I'm going to get a grip on this.
I don't have time for this nonsense.
I wasn't really prepared at thetime in my like late thirties,
early forties to hold up a mirror.
And say, is there anything that youcould be doing surely in terms of taking
care of yourself a little bit better?
(05:26):
Do you know what I mean?
I do.
No, I am curious though.
I do want you to continuesharing, but I am curious.
Did you even think menopause orthat you were entering menopause?
It was on my radar slightly becauseI have a sister who is 10 and a
half years older than I am and shereached menopause when she was 36.
(05:50):
So her health journey Has been veryinspirational to the work that I
do, but her health experience iscompletely different from mine.
She had cancer as a child.
And we believe that radiation,her radiation treatments actually
destroyed a lot of her egg follicles.
So she had difficulty conceiving,difficulty carrying a baby to full term.
(06:13):
And she reached menopause at age 36,had to do a lot of the research herself.
But I was only 26.
I wasn't like remotely interestedin what she was learning.
Do you know what I mean?
Because we push off learningabout it to a later date.
So.
Anyway, early forties, mid forties,as I was experiencing changes, I
(06:35):
really became curious for two reasons.
One, the science, the, thelearning about hormone health was
interesting and fascinating to me.
But the other big thing that probablythe marketing brain allowed me to
see was that this was a conversationthat was not receiving equal airtime.
(07:00):
It was an equity andan equality situation.
And then when you go down that path, yourealize how unbalanced women's health,
you know, people with ovaries, people whoare trying to prioritize their health.
In a health care system that can bequite dismissive and quite disappointing,
(07:23):
quite lacking in the research even, andthat is really a long way of saying, I
knew that something needed to be done.
Now, initially, I was going to writea blog off of the end of my desk
and call it my gift to the world.
And I did that for about aweek, and the response was so
(07:45):
positive that I was like, uh oh.
I like, I think I mightbe changing careers here.
And so I, I overlapped fora little bit until age 50,
just before my 50th birthday.
I decided that this would be myfull time vocation and it's full.
There's a lot of work to be done.
(08:06):
And I'm not surprised that the.
You had such, or such a feedback fromthe blog, because you and I have talked
about this at that time, especiallythere was not a lot of talk about it.
You know, I don't know about your mom.
My mom never even talked about it.
Yeah, I don't blame our mothersat all because they didn't have
(08:28):
the information or education.
I don't know about your educationalexperience, but I will often
refer to the fact that whenI was in grade six or seven.
We, on one Tuesday, we learned howa baby was made, and the following
Tuesday, we learned how not to makea baby, and that was the end of
(08:52):
women's reproductive health education.
Fast forward to my 30s, I had, Ieven, like, I gave birth twice,
and I didn't even understand allof the things that were involved.
In that.
And there's no shameattached to that whatsoever.
It was just that happenedto be my journey.
And now I have the good fortune ofunderstanding it a bit better and being
(09:14):
able to transfer knowledge for peoplewho might feel overwhelmed or confused
by what they know or don't know.
Yeah, I grew up in Singapore.
Yeah.
Our education was one day, uh, Ithink when I was 13 or 14, they
separated the girls and the boys.
(09:35):
And the girls went to one classroom,the boys went to one classroom and
they told the girls about period andthere was no sexual education, nothing.
And my mom was a nurse.
She was a midwife.
So my sister and I talk about this becausewe are like, you would think she would
have talked to her daughters about this.
(09:56):
But I also get that her generation,they don't talk about these things.
It's too personal.
No, and you know what's missing in thisdialogue is the fact that the piece that
we've all missed is no one sat us downand told us, this is the role of estrogen
in your body when it's produced in thefirst two weeks of your cycle, and this
(10:19):
is the role of progesterone in your bodyfor all parts of your body when it's
produced in the second half of your cycle.
And because we lack that, our society hastaken us Down a rabbit hole that says if
it's broken, here's all the ways you canfix it as opposed to here's how your body
(10:39):
works and here's how you can respect it.
if you want to stay aroundfor another five decades.
Definitely.
And I love that you brought it upbecause yesterday I was on Instagram,
which is my main social media thing.
There was a doctor who was talkingabout feminine hygiene products, pets.
(11:00):
She said, let's stopcalling it feminine hygiene.
Yeah.
Let's change the term because Thenthere's almost that perception that it's
not clean, having a period isn't clean.
Language is really important.
Words are so important.
Yeah.
And with your experience, your background,you've been doing this for 12 years.
(11:26):
Do you think there's smallbalance or there's still a lot
of work that needs to be done?
I think that we are in amessy middle right now.
And the reason that I say that isbecause when I started Menopause
(11:46):
Chicks 12 years ago, I was very lonely.
There were not any bloggers.
There were no Instagram accounts.
There's no conversation, essentially.
And fast forward to 2023.
I'm very excited that there are morepodcasts like this, that there are
(12:07):
more channels, there's more dialogue,just in 20, like 2019, so five years
ago, I went on the Today Show in NewYork, and as I was stepping onto the
stage, the producer whispered in myear, she said, by the way, we don't say
vagina on this show, and Yeah, I know.
(12:31):
Funny, right?
And then five years later, we are nowfinding a way to talk, to use proper terms
for body parts, to have open dialogue,uh, like the one that you're referring to.
But the reason I say we're in themessy middle is because when these
conversations crack open, you get alot of quality information from people
(12:56):
who know what they're talking about.
And it also sparks a lot of dialogue from,for information that is not verified, that
is not evidence based and that becomesvery messy for consumers who are trying to
make sense of what does this mean for me?
(13:19):
I hope that looking forward forthe next, hopefully it's not that
long, but two, three, five years.
Will create claritybecause we deserve that.
Yes, and it's so relevant and I totallyget what you're saying, because in
(13:41):
the therapy world, there's the talkabout this now too, because there's
so many online people who are talkingabout if you're depressed from this,
if you're anxious, do this, but.
Yeah, in the therapy world, they'relike, okay, be really careful about
(14:04):
what you're taking from these posts.
Now, I get it that it's upto us as consumers to, to
take what we need and stuff.
And I'm glad that, for me anyways,as a therapist, I'm glad there's
more talk about mental health.
I'm glad that we're not hidingif we're having a sad day.
(14:28):
Most of us are not.
People are talking about it.
But I'm also on viagra and going.
No, no, don't just talk aboutdepression like it's nothing.
For example, you gotta also give peoplethe resources, give people the tools,
so you don't walk away as a consumergoing, but I tried this that this
(14:48):
person said online, it's not working.
You can't make healthdecisions based on memes.
Funny, not funny.
It's funny, not funny.
I know individuals who would spendmore time creating a spreadsheet
for what to order from Uber Eats andwhere the best value is, then they
will, in terms of deciding what, whathealth steps they should be making
(15:14):
and who they should be trusting.
Will we ever get out of that?
I'm not sure, but I, I feel that.
The pendulum will swing towards qualityhealth information, and if those people
that are getting into the quote unquotemenopause business right now for
all the wrong reasons, they won't bearound for long, because we're smart,
(15:38):
we're savvy, we can figure this out.
I agree 100%.
I agree.
Because as history has shown that ifthere's so much misinformation and
stuff, people eventually figure it out.
Also, a community like yours,one person talk to the other
person, talk to the other person.
(15:58):
For example, I do this with myclients, who identify as women.
And now a lot of them are goingthrough menopause and I send them
to your site because I'm like,you need quality information.
You go to menopause chase.
And how I look at it is that let's starttelling other women, maybe even men, Oh,
(16:23):
your wife is going through menopause.
Send them to the site to get moreinformation, quality information.
So we're looking out for each otherso we're not suffering in silence.
Right, for sure.
Or just not suffering, period.
Not suffering.
Yeah, I would love it if youwould explain the terms of it.
(16:45):
Sure.
Yeah.
Metapause, post metapause, maybeeven estrogen, progesterone.
What you think are important for us tomaybe even perhaps have a basic recipe
because then the listeners can go, Oh,I'm going to go look into this further.
Okay.
A mini masterclass.
Mini masterclass.
(17:09):
So the very first thing that Iwant listeners to know is that
you deserve to feel amazing.
And the reason I begin withthat is because the context.
The definition of menopausehas been misconstrued.
It can often mean symptoms, suffering,negativity, met with an eye roll.
(17:35):
Lots of people have inherited generationalmyths that are attached to that word.
We cannot change the word, butwe can revisit what it means.
So the definition of menopause is one day.
And it is defined by the 12 monthanniversary of your last period.
(17:59):
There's no magic to that.
It just happens to be that 12 months,generally speaking, will mean that
your ovaries are no longer goingto develop another egg follicle.
It's the end of ovulation,reproduction, and menstruation.
Leading up to menopause is a phaseof life that's quite nuanced,
(18:21):
and that is called perimenopause.
Perimenopause as a termwas only coined in 1996.
That's pretty new in terms of research,understanding, and even knowing
how to talk about perimenopause.
But one of the best ways I've foundto explain perimenopause is, if you
(18:42):
think about puberty or the day thata girl would get her first period,
it doesn't just come out of thin air.
There's months or years leadingup to that day where her
hormones have been fluctuating.
In preparation for her reproductiveyears, same thing happens at
(19:04):
menopause, except it's in reverse.
There's a phase of years, probably5 to 7 years where hormones might
be fluctuating in preparation forthe end of reproduction every day.
After menopause, I reachedmenopause when I was 49.
The average age in North America is 51.
(19:25):
I think I don't know if anybody'sdone any research on that recently.
But around 51, every day aftermenopause is called postmenopause,
and that is super important.
We are in postmenopausefor the rest of our lives.
So I will never say going throughmenopause because it creates
(19:46):
this notion that It ends and it'sover and then things go back.
I have individuals in mycommunity who think, oh, things
will just go back to normal.
It's no, your ovaries no longer produceestrogen and progesterone for the
rest of your life and that impactseverything, your heart, your brain, your
(20:07):
bones and your genitourinary health.
Estrogen and progesterone.
The quick 411 on that is that estrogen.
Is a very important hormone.
It's a strong, feisty hormone.
It has to be because it'sdeveloping an egg follicle.
And so it arrives at the ovary.
(20:28):
It's like our hormonesare like a text message.
They're like a messaging system.
So the brain sends a message tothe ovaries via estrogen and says,
Hey, can you develop that eggfollicle and release it for me?
So for two weeks at thebeginning of our cycle, estrogen
is produced by the ovaries.
(20:49):
In the second half of ourcycle, progesterone is produced.
And progesterone is like theperfect dance partner for estrogen.
It's very calming.
It supports our mood.
And our sleep, and it regulates bleeding,it's responsible for the period or the
(21:13):
release of the lining of the uterus.
And it's also, like, thesehormones have more than two or
three roles and responsibilities.
I'm just highlighting the main ones, butboth are very supportive of our health.
So, estrogen protects our heart.
Progesterone contributes to our brainhealth and our bone health, and I
(21:35):
find that this is the conversationthat's not always all that familiar.
Our vaginas love estrogen.
Estrogen is our juicy hormone, so ithelps to keep our eyes moist and our
mouth moist and our joints lubricatedand our vulvas and vaginas happy.
Really having an understanding ofthe roles and responsibilities of
(21:56):
hormones when our cycles are regular.
Helps us prepare or make ahealth plan for when they're not.
That's amazing.
I think you should go and teach anatomy.
I've taken anatomy maybe fivetimes throughout my life.
And they don't teach the way that you do.
(22:17):
They don't even, especiallywhen it comes to female body.
I remember one anatomy teacher, he'sjust, he was just like, and these are
the female organs, and then he moved on,probably gave it a third of the time.
Would have spent on nail hog.
Yeah, so true.
And like the first time we learnabout something is the first
(22:38):
time we learn about something.
So I never tried to talkabout this with shame.
It might, I think about myown personal experience.
Someone told me that we areborn with all of the eggs.
They didn't use egg follicles,but all of the eggs.
And I was always like, really curious.
I'm like, where are all these eggs?
(23:00):
Like, how do they all fitin an ovary that's this big?
And then I, as you learn, yourealize, oh, they're egg follicles.
They need to be developed.
That's the role of the hormones.
If they're released and there'ssperm there, that's where
the health class started.
They never talked about how theygot there in the first place.
(23:23):
Anyway.
Oh, I'm curious.
If you could, would you change theterm menopause to something else?
I considered it.
I, I gave a lot of thought to whatmy movement was going to be called.
(23:43):
I had to, to, I had to include the wordmenopause for search engine optimization.
Not really what I wanted to call it.
I have done some previous workin my other, like my former
life with organizations whowent through naming changes.
And I understand the financial and theresources that are required to do that.
(24:07):
So I decided that we can changethe meaning, the definition, and
the interpretation, far easierthan we can change the name.
Oh, for sure.
It's real, right?
Because in society, that's whatit's been known as for you to
come up with a different term,that would be a mod of investment.
(24:30):
The reason I ask is if you could do,if you had a choice, what would be the.
Perfect.
Like, something that empowers this whole,Wolf, have you, has anything come to you?
I do have a, I am known for thispositive lens, like appreciative inquiry.
(24:51):
And so that's why I always beginwith, you deserve to feel amazing.
I remember thinking aboutterms like lowercase letters
on these words, but primetime.
Like, I do feel that there's so muchto celebrate about being in midlife
and for me, those things, and I hopethat some of our listeners can grasp
(25:14):
onto this as well, but I was 49 yearsold before I used the word beautiful.
To refer to myself,
I was 49 years old before Ilaid in the bathtub, looked
down at my body and thanked it.
(25:35):
So that's half my life.
So I think that the wordmenopause is fine just as it is.
We can redefine it, but we haveto elevate the conversation around
appreciating our wisdom and ourconfidence and our beauty, our sexuality.
Like I could go on and on.
(25:56):
Yeah.
What do you wish, when I saypractitioners, I'm including therapists,
psychotherapists, doctors, thehealthcare team that we would have,
like acupuncturists, physiotherapists,if there were like maybe three to five
things that you think you wish thatthey would do to help in this process,
(26:23):
well, what would those things be?
Education and prevention
to many of us in this.
Society that we've all grown upin and work and live in, it always
ends up coming back to, I havea solution to fix the problem.
(26:47):
I have a solution to fix you andI would love to see more of us,
more reminders to all of us thatwe're not necessarily broken, but.
That we could benefit from conversation,education and prevention strategies.
(27:07):
And that is close to my heart because Ispent 14 years in Chinese medicine, right?
And it's all about prevention.
Yeah.
And I can say for myself, some dayswas very frustrating because a lot of
people don't understand that preventionis better than cure, than fixing it.
(27:29):
And, but the thing is the truthis in the Western society, you
can look at the Fama Shooter Clue.
Industry, it's all about, oh,you have a headache, take a pill.
Yeah, what's causing the headache?
Is it life?
Is it stress?
Is it your hormones?
What would you tell theyounger as prevention?
(27:53):
As we get older, as we start to age,prevention wise, what do you think are
like a few of the more important thingsfor the younger folks to start doing now?
First two things I would say is learnthe roles and responsibilities of your
hormones because that's just as importantin our 20s, It's not something you can
(28:15):
press pause on until you're 50 or 60.
The second thing I would say is ifthere is any way for you to access the
information you need to connect thedots, and what I mean by the connecting
the dots is my generation is facing thehighest statistics for heart disease,
(28:40):
osteoporosis, dementia, incontinence,reoccurring UTIs, and vaginal atrophy.
And if we knew the rootcause of all of those things.
And understood that, yes, it'smultifactorial, I get it, right?
(29:01):
There's genetics, there's lifestyle,there's stress management.
But there is also ahormone health component.
And when we are talking about, let's say,heart disease, for example, osteoporosis,
one in three of my friends fall andbreak a bone due to osteoporosis.
(29:21):
That's the statistic right now.
If I can go out to my friend group,And educate them on how they can
prevent bone loss through nutrition,through strength building, and
through investigating hormone therapy.
That's one way to change those statistics.
So to young people, I say, learn thisnow, because first of all, I don't want to
(29:47):
be a burden to my 20 something children.
I don't want to fall and break a hip.
So I'm investing in doing everythingI can, there's no guarantee, but
doing everything I can now so thatI can joy my family, uh, for the
next four decades or five decades.
Uh, if I am so lucky and in doingthat, I hope to eradicate this.
(30:15):
And I'm crossing my fingers rightnow, but we see this a lot, especially
it comes up in the menopause chickscommunity quite often is that I'm crossing
my fingers and hoping for the best.
And I say, maybe we should uncross ourfingers and do something that would
contribute to like, let's leverage theinformation, education and expertise that
(30:40):
we can now so that we get the payoffs.
And I, I would say even if one listeneris listening to this episode, go
ahead and do that, then that makesme happy because we just, we need one
(31:01):
person at a time to, to be motivatedto, to do the work, the one person.
Like you to take to go, Oh my God,I'm just, I'm going to do this
because there's nothing out there.
I'm going to lead, be the leadand change, be the leader.
You know where that's like,really, it just comes up so often.
(31:24):
And I want to change the statisticsaround it is with vaginal health.
There are many individuals who think,Oh, I'll just, I really hope that
I don't experience vaginal atrophy.
And I'm like, hope isnot a health strategy.
If you know that your vagina is goingto miss estrogen, then you might want
(31:46):
to investigate how to prevent that.
I don't know what.
Maybe you have the magicalanswer, but a lot of human trait
is never going to happen to me.
Mm hmm.
Oh, that's a survival.
Yeah, survival.
And how do we Encourage people togo, okay, no, don't just hope that
(32:10):
your vagina is not going to atrophy.
Do something now.
And okay, I get it.
So there's, we, some, alot of us are stressed.
A lot of us are at capacity.
There's the financial thing too.
Some people are, they'retaking care of their elderly
parents and things like that.
I know there's that.
So the system also needs tobe fixed, but yeah, it's.
(32:32):
Yeah.
Except that, Patricia, if, and Iknow this is not a fair comparison,
it is absolutely inequitable.
If a penis owner goes to theirdoctor and says, I'm experiencing
erectile dysfunction, the firstthing they receive is treatment.
(32:57):
If a vagina owner goes to the doctorto talk about vaginal health, there's
a high likelihood of dismissal.
Disappointment and even extreme bizarreconversations such as just have another
(33:20):
glass of wine, just get through it, ithappens to everyone, you're just getting
to that age, it's, that's not right.
No, it's so frustrating.
It's so frustrating, which leadsto what I want to talk to you
about next is the dismissal.
Yeah.
Let's just talk about in general beforewe, we talk about what you know about.
(33:45):
Of the Bipo folks.
Sure.
But the this that they getwhen they go to the doctor.
What advice do you havefor them to get the care?
I know one of the advice I heardrecently was bring a friend.
You always bring a friend out.
(34:06):
Yeah.
I'm taking a deep breath on this one.
When we navigate other parts of ourlives, I have the utmost confidence.
(34:27):
That we know how to do that.
When I take my car into the mechanic,I am capable of having a conversation
about what my budget is, whatmy timeframe is, because I need
that vehicle to navigate my life.
When I go to the hairstylist and I sitin the chair, I am capable of saying,
(34:51):
I like this, I don't like this, thisaligns with my vision for how I want to
walk out of here, all of those things.
We have a gap when itcomes to health care.
It's probably a powerinequity in many ways.
And by the way, I am saying thisas a white privileged woman who
(35:13):
has access out the yin yang.
I know that and not everyone has thatsame access, but at the same time.
My mother would say this, we allhave a tongue in our mouth and it's
up to us how we use it and speak up.
(35:34):
So if you can dig deep and conjurethat confidence and that ability
to speak for yourself, great.
Now, we also have a very largeportion of our population who cannot
do that for a variety of systemic.
(35:55):
Reasons and that's heartbreaking andI do, there's absolutely no way I
can promise you a solution to thatother than more awareness, more
conversations like this through morepodcasts, more one on one dialogue,
more mass media, whatever we can do.
There was a study.
A handful of years ago here in BritishColumbia, where we both live, uh,
(36:20):
and it clearly brought attention.
It's called inherwords.
ca clearly brought attention to the fact.
That women, and it was a study forthe BC Women's Health Foundation,
aged 51 and up, are more likelyto leave their health appointments
(36:43):
feeling dismissed or disappointed.
And the top two reasons for theirhealth appointment in the first place
was either menstruation or menopause.
Cool.
The statistic I believe forthe reported dismissal was 54%.
The number was significantly higher forindigenous women and for women of color.
(37:12):
That's not just a conversation forwomen to, to be having, that's a
conversation for healthcare professionals.
Where is that agenda item on the learningfor our healthcare system and model?
I'm not sure.
That's just heartbreaking.
Yeah, and I fear.
(37:33):
Because I'm a menopause advocate, I fearthat indigenous and women of color, if
they've had a poor experience, when theyhad a period, when they were pregnant,
when they were laboring delivery, they arenot going to be able to dig deep for that
(37:56):
confidence and for those advocacy tools.
When they reach menopause, historywould just tell us that's going to
become increasingly difficult for them.
And then what happens is thestatistics I was referring to
earlier become more prevalent.
(38:17):
More heart disease, more osteoporosis,more vaginal atrophy, more UTIs.
I'd, I'd love to ask, I'd love to turnthis around and ask you the question.
How do we put a stop?
How can we be more preventative?
Oh, there's so much to it, and you get it,this is like, the systemic racism, right?
(38:41):
For folks who are BIPOC, that'sone, and then the dismissal.
This is one of the reasons Iwanted to start this podcast,
is because we need community.
We need people to, we needto look out for each other.
Yes.
We're, and.
(39:01):
One of the episodes that's coming up isI was talking to one of my friends who's
also Asian, Chinese, and we were talkingabout community and the thing is, how
we understand community as people ofcolor, especially those of us who grew
up in a collectivist culture, is verydifferent than how a Western person,
(39:23):
those who grew up in an individualisticculture, thinks about community.
And what you're talking about hereand the question you asked is that.
We need to be there for one another,and also we need an open conversation.
Let's say you and I live inthe same neighborhood, but if I
see you at a small market and Iwas, Oh my God, the hot flashes.
(39:44):
And let that be a normal thing andnot something that we hide behind.
Even mental health, right?
It's because then, If I had come toyou and I said, ah, sleep is horrible,
the thought flashes is horrible, thenbecause you have the knowledge and
you're looking out for your community,you will go home, okay, try this or
(40:08):
go see this, go see the pelvic floorphysio, go see this natural path doctor.
And I think we need to do that so wecan change how we approach this and how.
Because then, as a person of color,as a woman of color, I know that,
Oh, everyone is talking about it.
(40:28):
When I go to the doctor, it will giveme more confidence to bring it up.
Yeah, yeah.
There's so many things.
For sure.
You can have confidence and I canequip everyone with the tools that
they need to go have that conversation.
There's still no guarantee thatthe physician has the education or
(40:52):
the expertise to, to support you.
I just did a quick look though, becauseI did want to mention that I know from
some of the work that I've done in the U.
S.
that there are some groupsspecifically addressing menopause
for people who are Black.
So menopause, well, black women andmenopause, black menopause and beyond.
(41:12):
And the reason that I, um, wanted tobring that up in particular is that a,
there's too few, like too few, right.
But also because of physiologicaldifferences, which I'm not an expert
in, but there is research thatshows that black women experience
vasomotor symptoms differently.
(41:34):
And then other colors or other cultures,and then, you know, here in Canada, if
we would look, look at our indigenouscommunity, we already know that
there's a higher rate of diabetes, moresusceptible, like how is that in being
handled in the context of hormone changes?
Yeah.
Anyway.
No, thanks for sharing that.
(41:55):
I'm going to link those inthe show notes because also.
You, you are right.
There's so much, and thesystem has to change.
The education has to change.
And speaking as a person of color isthat if you identify as a, a bipo like
(42:17):
indigenous person of color, then the trendthat I've seen in the last say five years.
Maybe even more is that I'm now goingto be correct, and I'm going to find a
practitioner that is a person of color,like, and hopefully, so like my own
(42:38):
medical doctor is a woman of color.
And by doing that, the hope isthat they will see us better.
Like my own therapist, after many yearsof my therapist being white women, and
they were all great, don't get me wrong.
(42:59):
My therapist is a woman of color.
And the reason I switched toher was because the anti Asian
racism was happening in 2020.
And my therapist at that time wasa white woman, amazing woman, but
she didn't grasp what racism meant.
And my husband is white, he's great.
(43:20):
And he said to me, we canunderstand, we can sympathize,
but we would never understand.
Yes, right there in yourheart, in your body.
And I say this to clients too, blah.
People of color, when they come andsee me, I say, the thing is, it makes
such a big difference when you bringit up, say, we're talking about racism
(43:43):
in this matter, is that you don't haveto explain, you don't have to explain
yourself about why racism is so hard.
So.
As a person of color, if I find apractitioner, say even my medical doctor,
she's a woman of color, by going to herand saying that, Oh yeah, gestational
(44:08):
diabetes, for example, because it'smore common in Asian women, she gets it.
And you don't fear that she's goingto judge you for doing something
wrong, that your diet isn't great.
That's why you get thatgestational diabetes.
But she understand because a lot of Asian,when they are preg, they get gestational
diabetes because of the genetics.
(44:29):
So, this is my long way of sayingthat in the last five years, I've
seen a lot of trends that a lot ofpeople of color are now seeking help.
Practitioners, therapists,handings, who have People of
color because they feel safer.
So I think that helps and I alsothink then the system has to change
(44:50):
because then we have to give moreresources to folks who are bipolar,
scholarships even, let's train themto be doctors, all those things.
Yeah, for sure.
For sure.
And as you're saying that, I am remindedof how many times I hear members of
my community say, I'm disappointedwith my healthcare experience.
(45:15):
The practitioner was a woman.
And so then I'm like, Oh, you'vejust assumed that a female
practitioner studied menopause andpost menopause at medical school.
And so.
The one of the ways that I close that gapis I try to give every member a permission
(45:37):
slip that says it is okay to ask yourdoctor, tell me about your patient panel.
Do you have a lot of women atthe same age and stages me?
Because if they're doing labor anddelivery, their patient panel is
probably 20 or 30 years younger.
And it is absolutely okay to say,Is this something that you practice
(46:00):
every day on a regular basis?
Been to any continuingeducation classes on this?
Because I am starting myjourney and I am here.
I want you to be on my team.
I want you to work with me on this, and soI just have a couple of questions for you.
Yes, I love that you brought this upbecause we don't think about asking that.
Oh, I know, we assume.
(46:21):
We assume and we think, oh,you're a doctor, you must know.
And if you're a female doctor,you must understand my body.
And if you're a female doctor, you musthave sympathy for what I'm going through.
Maybe.
They might have sympathy.
They might, they might haveexperienced having a period, but
they might not have experienced.
Anything else that youmight be going through?
(46:43):
Yes.
And, uh, and yeah, I love that you'reencouraging people to ask because
now that I'm a therapist counselor isthat I do a 15 minutes consultation.
I encourage them to ask thequestions and what you've brought up.
A lot of them will say, haveyou worked with Asian folks?
(47:03):
Have you worked with grief?
Have you worked with trauma?
And to take that to yourmedical practitioner.
Like what you just said, that'shuge, and they don't think about it.
We don't think about it.
We never sit down in our dentist'schair and say, tell me, have
you ever done a filling before?
What if it's their firstroot canal and you're it?
(47:27):
I love my dentist.
And actually on her Facebook page, shewill share that, Oh, I'm going to this
conference to learn about X, Y, Z.
And for me, it's okay.
This is good for me to know thatyou are doing continuing education.
And she also teaches at the university.
So I know she has the skills.
Well, I love that you broughtit up because a lot of us were
(47:48):
brought up to respect our doctors.
Don't ask questions.
Right?
That's why there's so much activity inthe menopause chicks community, is they
go, members will go to their healthappointment, then they'll come back
and they're looking for interpretation,or they're looking for validation, or
they're looking for more information.
(48:11):
I don't know how much time we havetoday, but there's a societal assumption
That your doctor will educate youand I have to say, No, actually, your
doctor works within a health model thatrewards them for 10 minute appointments.
Their job is not to educate you.
Their job is to diagnose and treat.
(48:32):
And they try to do thatin under 10 minutes.
Oh, yeah.
This was maybe 20 years ago.
I went to my doctor at that time.
There was actually a note onthe wall in the waiting room.
You're only allowed to discuss one issue.
It's still there.
I promise you.
Oh, but how can you?
But if you have a headache and you havemenstrual cramps, those are connected.
(48:57):
How can you just say that?
I'm only allowed to bring one thing up.
I know.
But.
I just.
I.
Bigger.
Yeah.
There's a shift happening in that areathough, and I think it does, I think it's
rooted in the mental health movement.
And that is that doctors inBritish Columbia can now opt
for 30 minute appointments.
So they can be compensated for 30, whichI think is a step in the right direction.
(49:22):
Are there any books you wouldrecommend that we should read?
Yes.
I love your book, feel amazing.
Pop to Metapod's Chicks and youcan have it for free online.
Oh, I have many favorite books.
I follow the work of Dr.
Jerry Lynn Pryor, who is a guru atthe University of British Columbia.
(49:43):
I follow the work of Dr.
Lori Brado, who does a lotof research in sexual desire.
Which is the talk that comes up a lot.
Yeah.
Estrogen Matters is a bookthat I refer a lot of women to.
It specifically helps us unpack a bigquestion, which is the relationship
between hormone therapy and breast cancer.
(50:05):
And yeah, and I'm writinganother one for this year.
It's called Benapause.
It's different now.
Ooh, let's get you on this fall.
When, when is it coming out?
Uh, probably in the fall early fall.
Oh, please come back.
Let's talk about thatbefore the book comes out.
Yeah Anything else you want us to know?
(50:27):
I'm just really grateful that you havethis platform and that you are not only
cracking open the conversation, buthelping to change it because really
that will signify at the end of theday that we've done good work here.
We are all worthy of thisinformation and education.
And for those of you listening,it's really important, your time
(50:49):
and your investment in your health.
My hope is that seeing the work thatyou do, there will be a few more
people who are committed to puttingout quality information like you.
Thank you so much.
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
(51:10):
This week's advice from me, Yiyi, yourChinese auntie, is to be proactive
about your mental and physical health.
Talk to your friendsabout what is going on.
Now that I am in perimenopause,my body and sleep are changing.
Luckily, I have a few friendsI can talk to about this.
Also, please be aware of theinformation you gather on social media.
(51:35):
Research before you follow any adviceand always listen to your body.
Have a great week.
Thanks so much for listening tothis episode of the Conversations
with your Chinese Auntie podcast.
If you're enjoying the show, pleasefeel free to rate, subscribe,
and leave a review whereveryou listen to your podcast.
That helps others find the showand we greatly appreciate it.
(51:58):
Also, remember to sign upfor our newsletter to receive
free materials and updates.
Links in the website,patricia peterson.ca.
That's.
P A T R I C I A P E T E R S E N dot C A.
Again, thanks for listening.
We hope you have a great week, andwe'll see you in the next episode.
2019, so five years ago, I went on thetoday show in New York and as I was
stepping onto the stage, the producerwhispered in my ear, she said, by the
way, we don't say vagina on this show.
And you know, what's missing in thisdialogue is the fact that the piece that
(00:28):
we've all missed is no one sat us downand Told us this is the role of estrogen
in your body and this is the role ofprogesterone and because we've lacked
that our society has taken us down arabbit hole that says, if it's broken,
here's all the ways you can fix it.
(00:48):
As opposed to, here's how your body works.
Welcome to conversations withyour Chinese auntie podcast.
My guest today is Shirley Weir.
(01:09):
Although this podcast mainlyfeatures BIPOC folks, black,
indigenous people of color.
I wanted to invite Shirley hereas she has done so much educate
the world about menopause.
I met Shirley in 2017 whenwe were part of the forum.
Which helps women entrepreneurs connectand access the needed resources.
(01:32):
We stayed in touch over the yearsand I have witnessed how Shirley is
a fierce advocate for women's health.
Shirley is the founderof Menopause Chicks.
She launched Menopause Chicks 12 years agoonto the world stage to empower women to
talk about menopause and perimenopause.
To navigate midlife health informationand connect women's health professional.
(01:58):
In this mini masterclass, we talkabout hormones, the healthcare system,
how it affects folks who identifyas BIPOC, and what we can do to be
more proactive about our journey.
If you are like me and most of myfriends or know anyone navigating
menopause right now, I highlyrecommend joining Shirley's community.
(02:22):
Links are in the show note.
Good morning, Shirley.
Hi, Patricia.
How are you?
I'm great.
This is exciting.
Please introduce yourself.
What do you do?
Who are you?
Where you live?
Whatever seems important to youto share with the listeners.
(02:43):
Absolutely.
So, my name is Shirley Weir.
I'm the founder of menopausechicks.
com.
I will be 57 years old.
Probably by the time you're listeningto this podcast, and I started
Menopause Chicks 12 years ago.
I'm on a mission to ensure that everyonehas access to hormone health education
(03:08):
and information, and that we feelconfident to navigate perimenopause
to menopause to postmenopause.
Oh, that's wonderful.
Uh, I'm interested tohear your journey to this.
Very.
Why Manifest Chicks?
And I wanted you to come on because you'vedone so much good work in this community.
(03:31):
and educating folks about menopause.
Share with us a bit about your journeyto starting menopause tricks and maybe
also what did you do before that?
Yeah, so I approached thisquestion a few different ways.
One is my own personal health journey.
So as I mentioned, I'm turning 57.
(03:53):
I grew up not wanting to talkabout periods or bodily functions.
This was not on my radar at all.
And, and then I got married, I had,had two children around age 39.
I was really stressed out, maxed,didn't realize it at the time to be,
it sounds a little weird in reflectingupon it, but I couldn't sleep.
(04:19):
I had brain fog that was reallydebilitating and I was self employed.
I've always worked inmarketing and communications.
And so I was trying to run a business,run a house, two small children, and
my aging mother had come to visit usand stayed because she wasn't well.
And so she was here for sixmonths, showing signs of dementia.
(04:40):
There was all of that.
Which probably sounds like a lot ofpeople that you and I both know, right?
We have a tendency tohold up a lot of plates.
I was maybe in denial a little bit thatthings were changing and that I wasn't
prioritizing my health and I wantedto blame something that was external.
(05:05):
I was like, I'm going to go to my doctor.
I'm going to get a grip on this.
I don't have time for this nonsense.
I wasn't really prepared at thetime in my like late thirties,
early forties to hold up a mirror.
And say, is there anything that youcould be doing surely in terms of taking
care of yourself a little bit better?
(05:26):
Do you know what I mean?
I do.
No, I am curious though.
I do want you to continuesharing, but I am curious.
Did you even think menopause orthat you were entering menopause?
It was on my radar slightly becauseI have a sister who is 10 and a
half years older than I am and shereached menopause when she was 36.
(05:50):
So her health journey Has been veryinspirational to the work that I
do, but her health experience iscompletely different from mine.
She had cancer as a child.
And we believe that radiation,her radiation treatments actually
destroyed a lot of her egg follicles.
So she had difficulty conceiving,difficulty carrying a baby to full term.
(06:13):
And she reached menopause at age 36,had to do a lot of the research herself.
But I was only 26.
I wasn't like remotely interestedin what she was learning.
Do you know what I mean?
Because we push off learningabout it to a later date.
So.
Anyway, early forties, mid forties,as I was experiencing changes, I
(06:35):
really became curious for two reasons.
One, the science, the, thelearning about hormone health was
interesting and fascinating to me.
But the other big thing that probablythe marketing brain allowed me to
see was that this was a conversationthat was not receiving equal airtime.
(07:00):
It was an equity andan equality situation.
And then when you go down that path, yourealize how unbalanced women's health,
you know, people with ovaries, people whoare trying to prioritize their health.
In a health care system that can bequite dismissive and quite disappointing,
(07:23):
quite lacking in the research even, andthat is really a long way of saying, I
knew that something needed to be done.
Now, initially, I was going to writea blog off of the end of my desk
and call it my gift to the world.
And I did that for about aweek, and the response was so
(07:45):
positive that I was like, uh oh.
I like, I think I mightbe changing careers here.
And so I, I overlapped fora little bit until age 50,
just before my 50th birthday.
I decided that this would be myfull time vocation and it's full.
There's a lot of work to be done.
(08:06):
And I'm not surprised that the.
You had such, or such a feedback fromthe blog, because you and I have talked
about this at that time, especiallythere was not a lot of talk about it.
You know, I don't know about your mom.
My mom never even talked about it.
Yeah, I don't blame our mothersat all because they didn't have
(08:28):
the information or education.
I don't know about your educationalexperience, but I will often
refer to the fact that whenI was in grade six or seven.
We, on one Tuesday, we learned howa baby was made, and the following
Tuesday, we learned how not to makea baby, and that was the end of
(08:52):
women's reproductive health education.
Fast forward to my 30s, I had, Ieven, like, I gave birth twice,
and I didn't even understand allof the things that were involved.
In that.
And there's no shameattached to that whatsoever.
It was just that happenedto be my journey.
And now I have the good fortune ofunderstanding it a bit better and being
(09:14):
able to transfer knowledge for peoplewho might feel overwhelmed or confused
by what they know or don't know.
Yeah, I grew up in Singapore.
Yeah.
Our education was one day, uh, Ithink when I was 13 or 14, they
separated the girls and the boys.
(09:35):
And the girls went to one classroom,the boys went to one classroom and
they told the girls about period andthere was no sexual education, nothing.
And my mom was a nurse.
She was a midwife.
So my sister and I talk about this becausewe are like, you would think she would
have talked to her daughters about this.
(09:56):
But I also get that her generation,they don't talk about these things.
It's too personal.
No, and you know what's missing in thisdialogue is the fact that the piece that
we've all missed is no one sat us downand told us, this is the role of estrogen
in your body when it's produced in thefirst two weeks of your cycle, and this
(10:19):
is the role of progesterone in your bodyfor all parts of your body when it's
produced in the second half of your cycle.
And because we lack that, our society hastaken us Down a rabbit hole that says if
it's broken, here's all the ways you canfix it as opposed to here's how your body
(10:39):
works and here's how you can respect it.
if you want to stay aroundfor another five decades.
Definitely.
And I love that you brought it upbecause yesterday I was on Instagram,
which is my main social media thing.
There was a doctor who was talkingabout feminine hygiene products, pets.
(11:00):
She said, let's stopcalling it feminine hygiene.
Yeah.
Let's change the term because Thenthere's almost that perception that it's
not clean, having a period isn't clean.
Language is really important.
Words are so important.
Yeah.
And with your experience, your background,you've been doing this for 12 years.
(11:26):
Do you think there's smallbalance or there's still a lot
of work that needs to be done?
I think that we are in amessy middle right now.
And the reason that I say that isbecause when I started Menopause
(11:46):
Chicks 12 years ago, I was very lonely.
There were not any bloggers.
There were no Instagram accounts.
There's no conversation, essentially.
And fast forward to 2023.
I'm very excited that there are morepodcasts like this, that there are
(12:07):
more channels, there's more dialogue,just in 20, like 2019, so five years
ago, I went on the Today Show in NewYork, and as I was stepping onto the
stage, the producer whispered in myear, she said, by the way, we don't say
vagina on this show, and Yeah, I know.
(12:31):
Funny, right?
And then five years later, we are nowfinding a way to talk, to use proper terms
for body parts, to have open dialogue,uh, like the one that you're referring to.
But the reason I say we're in themessy middle is because when these
conversations crack open, you get alot of quality information from people
(12:56):
who know what they're talking about.
And it also sparks a lot of dialogue from,for information that is not verified, that
is not evidence based and that becomesvery messy for consumers who are trying to
make sense of what does this mean for me?
(13:19):
I hope that looking forward forthe next, hopefully it's not that
long, but two, three, five years.
Will create claritybecause we deserve that.
Yes, and it's so relevant and I totallyget what you're saying, because in
(13:41):
the therapy world, there's the talkabout this now too, because there's
so many online people who are talkingabout if you're depressed from this,
if you're anxious, do this, but.
Yeah, in the therapy world, they'relike, okay, be really careful about
(14:04):
what you're taking from these posts.
Now, I get it that it's upto us as consumers to, to
take what we need and stuff.
And I'm glad that, for me anyways,as a therapist, I'm glad there's
more talk about mental health.
I'm glad that we're not hidingif we're having a sad day.
(14:28):
Most of us are not.
People are talking about it.
But I'm also on viagra and going.
No, no, don't just talk aboutdepression like it's nothing.
For example, you gotta also give peoplethe resources, give people the tools,
so you don't walk away as a consumergoing, but I tried this that this
(14:48):
person said online, it's not working.
You can't make healthdecisions based on memes.
Funny, not funny.
It's funny, not funny.
I know individuals who would spendmore time creating a spreadsheet
for what to order from Uber Eats andwhere the best value is, then they
will, in terms of deciding what, whathealth steps they should be making
(15:14):
and who they should be trusting.
Will we ever get out of that?
I'm not sure, but I, I feel that.
The pendulum will swing towards qualityhealth information, and if those people
that are getting into the quote unquotemenopause business right now for
all the wrong reasons, they won't bearound for long, because we're smart,
(15:38):
we're savvy, we can figure this out.
I agree 100%.
I agree.
Because as history has shown that ifthere's so much misinformation and
stuff, people eventually figure it out.
Also, a community like yours,one person talk to the other
person, talk to the other person.
(15:58):
For example, I do this with myclients, who identify as women.
And now a lot of them are goingthrough menopause and I send them
to your site because I'm like,you need quality information.
You go to menopause chase.
And how I look at it is that let's starttelling other women, maybe even men, Oh,
(16:23):
your wife is going through menopause.
Send them to the site to get moreinformation, quality information.
So we're looking out for each otherso we're not suffering in silence.
Right, for sure.
Or just not suffering, period.
Not suffering.
Yeah, I would love it if youwould explain the terms of it.
(16:45):
Sure.
Yeah.
Metapause, post metapause, maybeeven estrogen, progesterone.
What you think are important for us tomaybe even perhaps have a basic recipe
because then the listeners can go, Oh,I'm going to go look into this further.
Okay.
A mini masterclass.
Mini masterclass.
(17:09):
So the very first thing that Iwant listeners to know is that
you deserve to feel amazing.
And the reason I begin withthat is because the context.
The definition of menopausehas been misconstrued.
It can often mean symptoms, suffering,negativity, met with an eye roll.
(17:35):
Lots of people have inherited generationalmyths that are attached to that word.
We cannot change the word, butwe can revisit what it means.
So the definition of menopause is one day.
And it is defined by the 12 monthanniversary of your last period.
(17:59):
There's no magic to that.
It just happens to be that 12 months,generally speaking, will mean that
your ovaries are no longer goingto develop another egg follicle.
It's the end of ovulation,reproduction, and menstruation.
Leading up to menopause is a phaseof life that's quite nuanced,
(18:21):
and that is called perimenopause.
Perimenopause as a termwas only coined in 1996.
That's pretty new in terms of research,understanding, and even knowing
how to talk about perimenopause.
But one of the best ways I've foundto explain perimenopause is, if you
(18:42):
think about puberty or the day thata girl would get her first period,
it doesn't just come out of thin air.
There's months or years leadingup to that day where her
hormones have been fluctuating.
In preparation for her reproductiveyears, same thing happens at
(19:04):
menopause, except it's in reverse.
There's a phase of years, probably5 to 7 years where hormones might
be fluctuating in preparation forthe end of reproduction every day.
After menopause, I reachedmenopause when I was 49.
The average age in North America is 51.
(19:25):
I think I don't know if anybody'sdone any research on that recently.
But around 51, every day aftermenopause is called postmenopause,
and that is super important.
We are in postmenopausefor the rest of our lives.
So I will never say going throughmenopause because it creates
(19:46):
this notion that It ends and it'sover and then things go back.
I have individuals in mycommunity who think, oh, things
will just go back to normal.
It's no, your ovaries no longer produceestrogen and progesterone for the
rest of your life and that impactseverything, your heart, your brain, your
(20:07):
bones and your genitourinary health.
Estrogen and progesterone.
The quick 411 on that is that estrogen.
Is a very important hormone.
It's a strong, feisty hormone.
It has to be because it'sdeveloping an egg follicle.
And so it arrives at the ovary.
(20:28):
It's like our hormonesare like a text message.
They're like a messaging system.
So the brain sends a message tothe ovaries via estrogen and says,
Hey, can you develop that eggfollicle and release it for me?
So for two weeks at thebeginning of our cycle, estrogen
is produced by the ovaries.
(20:49):
In the second half of ourcycle, progesterone is produced.
And progesterone is like theperfect dance partner for estrogen.
It's very calming.
It supports our mood.
And our sleep, and it regulates bleeding,it's responsible for the period or the
(21:13):
release of the lining of the uterus.
And it's also, like, thesehormones have more than two or
three roles and responsibilities.
I'm just highlighting the main ones, butboth are very supportive of our health.
So, estrogen protects our heart.
Progesterone contributes to our brainhealth and our bone health, and I
(21:35):
find that this is the conversationthat's not always all that familiar.
Our vaginas love estrogen.
Estrogen is our juicy hormone, so ithelps to keep our eyes moist and our
mouth moist and our joints lubricatedand our vulvas and vaginas happy.
Really having an understanding ofthe roles and responsibilities of
(21:56):
hormones when our cycles are regular.
Helps us prepare or make ahealth plan for when they're not.
That's amazing.
I think you should go and teach anatomy.
I've taken anatomy maybe fivetimes throughout my life.
And they don't teach the way that you do.
(22:17):
They don't even, especiallywhen it comes to female body.
I remember one anatomy teacher, he'sjust, he was just like, and these are
the female organs, and then he moved on,probably gave it a third of the time.
Would have spent on nail hog.
Yeah, so true.
And like the first time we learnabout something is the first
(22:38):
time we learn about something.
So I never tried to talkabout this with shame.
It might, I think about myown personal experience.
Someone told me that we areborn with all of the eggs.
They didn't use egg follicles,but all of the eggs.
And I was always like, really curious.
I'm like, where are all these eggs?
(23:00):
Like, how do they all fitin an ovary that's this big?
And then I, as you learn, yourealize, oh, they're egg follicles.
They need to be developed.
That's the role of the hormones.
If they're released and there'ssperm there, that's where
the health class started.
They never talked about how theygot there in the first place.
(23:23):
Anyway.
Oh, I'm curious.
If you could, would you change theterm menopause to something else?
I considered it.
I, I gave a lot of thought to whatmy movement was going to be called.
(23:43):
I had to, to, I had to include the wordmenopause for search engine optimization.
Not really what I wanted to call it.
I have done some previous workin my other, like my former
life with organizations whowent through naming changes.
And I understand the financial and theresources that are required to do that.
(24:07):
So I decided that we can changethe meaning, the definition, and
the interpretation, far easierthan we can change the name.
Oh, for sure.
It's real, right?
Because in society, that's whatit's been known as for you to
come up with a different term,that would be a mod of investment.
(24:30):
The reason I ask is if you could do,if you had a choice, what would be the.
Perfect.
Like, something that empowers this whole,Wolf, have you, has anything come to you?
I do have a, I am known for thispositive lens, like appreciative inquiry.
(24:51):
And so that's why I always beginwith, you deserve to feel amazing.
I remember thinking aboutterms like lowercase letters
on these words, but primetime.
Like, I do feel that there's so muchto celebrate about being in midlife
and for me, those things, and I hopethat some of our listeners can grasp
(25:14):
onto this as well, but I was 49 yearsold before I used the word beautiful.
To refer to myself,
I was 49 years old before Ilaid in the bathtub, looked
down at my body and thanked it.
(25:35):
So that's half my life.
So I think that the wordmenopause is fine just as it is.
We can redefine it, but we haveto elevate the conversation around
appreciating our wisdom and ourconfidence and our beauty, our sexuality.
Like I could go on and on.
(25:56):
Yeah.
What do you wish, when I saypractitioners, I'm including therapists,
psychotherapists, doctors, thehealthcare team that we would have,
like acupuncturists, physiotherapists,if there were like maybe three to five
things that you think you wish thatthey would do to help in this process,
(26:23):
well, what would those things be?
Education and prevention
to many of us in this.
Society that we've all grown upin and work and live in, it always
ends up coming back to, I havea solution to fix the problem.
(26:47):
I have a solution to fix you andI would love to see more of us,
more reminders to all of us thatwe're not necessarily broken, but.
That we could benefit from conversation,education and prevention strategies.
(27:07):
And that is close to my heart because Ispent 14 years in Chinese medicine, right?
And it's all about prevention.
Yeah.
And I can say for myself, some dayswas very frustrating because a lot of
people don't understand that preventionis better than cure, than fixing it.
(27:29):
And, but the thing is the truthis in the Western society, you
can look at the Fama Shooter Clue.
Industry, it's all about, oh,you have a headache, take a pill.
Yeah, what's causing the headache?
Is it life?
Is it stress?
Is it your hormones?
What would you tell theyounger as prevention?
(27:53):
As we get older, as we start to age,prevention wise, what do you think are
like a few of the more important thingsfor the younger folks to start doing now?
First two things I would say is learnthe roles and responsibilities of your
hormones because that's just as importantin our 20s, It's not something you can
(28:15):
press pause on until you're 50 or 60.
The second thing I would say is ifthere is any way for you to access the
information you need to connect thedots, and what I mean by the connecting
the dots is my generation is facing thehighest statistics for heart disease,
(28:40):
osteoporosis, dementia, incontinence,reoccurring UTIs, and vaginal atrophy.
And if we knew the rootcause of all of those things.
And understood that, yes, it'smultifactorial, I get it, right?
(29:01):
There's genetics, there's lifestyle,there's stress management.
But there is also ahormone health component.
And when we are talking about, let's say,heart disease, for example, osteoporosis,
one in three of my friends fall andbreak a bone due to osteoporosis.
(29:21):
That's the statistic right now.
If I can go out to my friend group,And educate them on how they can
prevent bone loss through nutrition,through strength building, and
through investigating hormone therapy.
That's one way to change those statistics.
So to young people, I say, learn thisnow, because first of all, I don't want to
(29:47):
be a burden to my 20 something children.
I don't want to fall and break a hip.
So I'm investing in doing everythingI can, there's no guarantee, but
doing everything I can now so thatI can joy my family, uh, for the
next four decades or five decades.
Uh, if I am so lucky and in doingthat, I hope to eradicate this.
(30:15):
And I'm crossing my fingers rightnow, but we see this a lot, especially
it comes up in the menopause chickscommunity quite often is that I'm crossing
my fingers and hoping for the best.
And I say, maybe we should uncross ourfingers and do something that would
contribute to like, let's leverage theinformation, education and expertise that
(30:40):
we can now so that we get the payoffs.
And I, I would say even if one listeneris listening to this episode, go
ahead and do that, then that makesme happy because we just, we need one
(31:01):
person at a time to, to be motivatedto, to do the work, the one person.
Like you to take to go, Oh my God,I'm just, I'm going to do this
because there's nothing out there.
I'm going to lead, be the leadand change, be the leader.
You know where that's like,really, it just comes up so often.
(31:24):
And I want to change the statisticsaround it is with vaginal health.
There are many individuals who think,Oh, I'll just, I really hope that
I don't experience vaginal atrophy.
And I'm like, hope isnot a health strategy.
If you know that your vagina is goingto miss estrogen, then you might want
(31:46):
to investigate how to prevent that.
I don't know what.
Maybe you have the magicalanswer, but a lot of human trait
is never going to happen to me.
Mm hmm.
Oh, that's a survival.
Yeah, survival.
And how do we Encourage people togo, okay, no, don't just hope that
(32:10):
your vagina is not going to atrophy.
Do something now.
And okay, I get it.
So there's, we, some, alot of us are stressed.
A lot of us are at capacity.
There's the financial thing too.
Some people are, they'retaking care of their elderly
parents and things like that.
I know there's that.
So the system also needs tobe fixed, but yeah, it's.
(32:32):
Yeah.
Except that, Patricia, if, and Iknow this is not a fair comparison,
it is absolutely inequitable.
If a penis owner goes to theirdoctor and says, I'm experiencing
erectile dysfunction, the firstthing they receive is treatment.
(32:57):
If a vagina owner goes to the doctorto talk about vaginal health, there's
a high likelihood of dismissal.
Disappointment and even extreme bizarreconversations such as just have another
(33:20):
glass of wine, just get through it, ithappens to everyone, you're just getting
to that age, it's, that's not right.
No, it's so frustrating.
It's so frustrating, which leadsto what I want to talk to you
about next is the dismissal.
Yeah.
Let's just talk about in general beforewe, we talk about what you know about.
(33:45):
Of the Bipo folks.
Sure.
But the this that they getwhen they go to the doctor.
What advice do you havefor them to get the care?
I know one of the advice I heardrecently was bring a friend.
You always bring a friend out.
(34:06):
Yeah.
I'm taking a deep breath on this one.
When we navigate other parts of ourlives, I have the utmost confidence.
(34:27):
That we know how to do that.
When I take my car into the mechanic,I am capable of having a conversation
about what my budget is, whatmy timeframe is, because I need
that vehicle to navigate my life.
When I go to the hairstylist and I sitin the chair, I am capable of saying,
(34:51):
I like this, I don't like this, thisaligns with my vision for how I want to
walk out of here, all of those things.
We have a gap when itcomes to health care.
It's probably a powerinequity in many ways.
And by the way, I am saying thisas a white privileged woman who
(35:13):
has access out the yin yang.
I know that and not everyone has thatsame access, but at the same time.
My mother would say this, we allhave a tongue in our mouth and it's
up to us how we use it and speak up.
(35:34):
So if you can dig deep and conjurethat confidence and that ability
to speak for yourself, great.
Now, we also have a very largeportion of our population who cannot
do that for a variety of systemic.
(35:55):
Reasons and that's heartbreaking andI do, there's absolutely no way I
can promise you a solution to thatother than more awareness, more
conversations like this through morepodcasts, more one on one dialogue,
more mass media, whatever we can do.
There was a study.
A handful of years ago here in BritishColumbia, where we both live, uh,
(36:20):
and it clearly brought attention.
It's called inherwords.
ca clearly brought attention to the fact.
That women, and it was a study forthe BC Women's Health Foundation,
aged 51 and up, are more likelyto leave their health appointments
(36:43):
feeling dismissed or disappointed.
And the top two reasons for theirhealth appointment in the first place
was either menstruation or menopause.
Cool.
The statistic I believe forthe reported dismissal was 54%.
The number was significantly higher forindigenous women and for women of color.
(37:12):
That's not just a conversation forwomen to, to be having, that's a
conversation for healthcare professionals.
Where is that agenda item on the learningfor our healthcare system and model?
I'm not sure.
That's just heartbreaking.
Yeah, and I fear.
(37:33):
Because I'm a menopause advocate, I fearthat indigenous and women of color, if
they've had a poor experience, when theyhad a period, when they were pregnant,
when they were laboring delivery, they arenot going to be able to dig deep for that
(37:56):
confidence and for those advocacy tools.
When they reach menopause, historywould just tell us that's going to
become increasingly difficult for them.
And then what happens is thestatistics I was referring to
earlier become more prevalent.
(38:17):
More heart disease, more osteoporosis,more vaginal atrophy, more UTIs.
I'd, I'd love to ask, I'd love to turnthis around and ask you the question.
How do we put a stop?
How can we be more preventative?
Oh, there's so much to it, and you get it,this is like, the systemic racism, right?
(38:41):
For folks who are BIPOC, that'sone, and then the dismissal.
This is one of the reasons Iwanted to start this podcast,
is because we need community.
We need people to, we needto look out for each other.
Yes.
We're, and.
(39:01):
One of the episodes that's coming up isI was talking to one of my friends who's
also Asian, Chinese, and we were talkingabout community and the thing is, how
we understand community as people ofcolor, especially those of us who grew
up in a collectivist culture, is verydifferent than how a Western person,
(39:23):
those who grew up in an individualisticculture, thinks about community.
And what you're talking about hereand the question you asked is that.
We need to be there for one another,and also we need an open conversation.
Let's say you and I live inthe same neighborhood, but if I
see you at a small market and Iwas, Oh my God, the hot flashes.
(39:44):
And let that be a normal thing andnot something that we hide behind.
Even mental health, right?
It's because then, If I had come toyou and I said, ah, sleep is horrible,
the thought flashes is horrible, thenbecause you have the knowledge and
you're looking out for your community,you will go home, okay, try this or
(40:08):
go see this, go see the pelvic floorphysio, go see this natural path doctor.
And I think we need to do that so wecan change how we approach this and how.
Because then, as a person of color,as a woman of color, I know that,
Oh, everyone is talking about it.
(40:28):
When I go to the doctor, it will giveme more confidence to bring it up.
Yeah, yeah.
There's so many things.
For sure.
You can have confidence and I canequip everyone with the tools that
they need to go have that conversation.
There's still no guarantee thatthe physician has the education or
(40:52):
the expertise to, to support you.
I just did a quick look though, becauseI did want to mention that I know from
some of the work that I've done in the U.
S.
that there are some groupsspecifically addressing menopause
for people who are Black.
So menopause, well, black women andmenopause, black menopause and beyond.
(41:12):
And the reason that I, um, wanted tobring that up in particular is that a,
there's too few, like too few, right.
But also because of physiologicaldifferences, which I'm not an expert
in, but there is research thatshows that black women experience
vasomotor symptoms differently.
(41:34):
And then other colors or other cultures,and then, you know, here in Canada, if
we would look, look at our indigenouscommunity, we already know that
there's a higher rate of diabetes, moresusceptible, like how is that in being
handled in the context of hormone changes?
Yeah.
Anyway.
No, thanks for sharing that.
(41:55):
I'm going to link those inthe show notes because also.
You, you are right.
There's so much, and thesystem has to change.
The education has to change.
And speaking as a person of color isthat if you identify as a, a bipo like
(42:17):
indigenous person of color, then the trendthat I've seen in the last say five years.
Maybe even more is that I'm now goingto be correct, and I'm going to find a
practitioner that is a person of color,like, and hopefully, so like my own
(42:38):
medical doctor is a woman of color.
And by doing that, the hope isthat they will see us better.
Like my own therapist, after many yearsof my therapist being white women, and
they were all great, don't get me wrong.
(42:59):
My therapist is a woman of color.
And the reason I switched toher was because the anti Asian
racism was happening in 2020.
And my therapist at that time wasa white woman, amazing woman, but
she didn't grasp what racism meant.
And my husband is white, he's great.
(43:20):
And he said to me, we canunderstand, we can sympathize,
but we would never understand.
Yes, right there in yourheart, in your body.
And I say this to clients too, blah.
People of color, when they come andsee me, I say, the thing is, it makes
such a big difference when you bringit up, say, we're talking about racism
(43:43):
in this matter, is that you don't haveto explain, you don't have to explain
yourself about why racism is so hard.
So.
As a person of color, if I find apractitioner, say even my medical doctor,
she's a woman of color, by going to herand saying that, Oh yeah, gestational
(44:08):
diabetes, for example, because it'smore common in Asian women, she gets it.
And you don't fear that she's goingto judge you for doing something
wrong, that your diet isn't great.
That's why you get thatgestational diabetes.
But she understand because a lot of Asian,when they are preg, they get gestational
diabetes because of the genetics.
(44:29):
So, this is my long way of sayingthat in the last five years, I've
seen a lot of trends that a lot ofpeople of color are now seeking help.
Practitioners, therapists,handings, who have People of
color because they feel safer.
So I think that helps and I alsothink then the system has to change
(44:50):
because then we have to give moreresources to folks who are bipolar,
scholarships even, let's train themto be doctors, all those things.
Yeah, for sure.
For sure.
And as you're saying that, I am remindedof how many times I hear members of
my community say, I'm disappointedwith my healthcare experience.
(45:15):
The practitioner was a woman.
And so then I'm like, Oh, you'vejust assumed that a female
practitioner studied menopause andpost menopause at medical school.
And so.
The one of the ways that I close that gapis I try to give every member a permission
(45:37):
slip that says it is okay to ask yourdoctor, tell me about your patient panel.
Do you have a lot of women atthe same age and stages me?
Because if they're doing labor anddelivery, their patient panel is
probably 20 or 30 years younger.
And it is absolutely okay to say,Is this something that you practice
(46:00):
every day on a regular basis?
Been to any continuingeducation classes on this?
Because I am starting myjourney and I am here.
I want you to be on my team.
I want you to work with me on this, and soI just have a couple of questions for you.
Yes, I love that you brought this upbecause we don't think about asking that.
Oh, I know, we assume.
(46:21):
We assume and we think, oh,you're a doctor, you must know.
And if you're a female doctor,you must understand my body.
And if you're a female doctor, you musthave sympathy for what I'm going through.
Maybe.
They might have sympathy.
They might, they might haveexperienced having a period, but
they might not have experienced.
Anything else that youmight be going through?
(46:43):
Yes.
And, uh, and yeah, I love that you'reencouraging people to ask because
now that I'm a therapist counselor isthat I do a 15 minutes consultation.
I encourage them to ask thequestions and what you've brought up.
A lot of them will say, haveyou worked with Asian folks?
(47:03):
Have you worked with grief?
Have you worked with trauma?
And to take that to yourmedical practitioner.
Like what you just said, that'shuge, and they don't think about it.
We don't think about it.
We never sit down in our dentist'schair and say, tell me, have
you ever done a filling before?
What if it's their firstroot canal and you're it?
(47:27):
I love my dentist.
And actually on her Facebook page, shewill share that, Oh, I'm going to this
conference to learn about X, Y, Z.
And for me, it's okay.
This is good for me to know thatyou are doing continuing education.
And she also teaches at the university.
So I know she has the skills.
Well, I love that you broughtit up because a lot of us were
(47:48):
brought up to respect our doctors.
Don't ask questions.
Right?
That's why there's so much activity inthe menopause chicks community, is they
go, members will go to their healthappointment, then they'll come back
and they're looking for interpretation,or they're looking for validation, or
they're looking for more information.
(48:11):
I don't know how much time we havetoday, but there's a societal assumption
That your doctor will educate youand I have to say, No, actually, your
doctor works within a health model thatrewards them for 10 minute appointments.
Their job is not to educate you.
Their job is to diagnose and treat.
(48:32):
And they try to do thatin under 10 minutes.
Oh, yeah.
This was maybe 20 years ago.
I went to my doctor at that time.
There was actually a note onthe wall in the waiting room.
You're only allowed to discuss one issue.
It's still there.
I promise you.
Oh, but how can you?
But if you have a headache and you havemenstrual cramps, those are connected.
(48:57):
How can you just say that?
I'm only allowed to bring one thing up.
I know.
But.
I just.
I.
Bigger.
Yeah.
There's a shift happening in that areathough, and I think it does, I think it's
rooted in the mental health movement.
And that is that doctors inBritish Columbia can now opt
for 30 minute appointments.
So they can be compensated for 30, whichI think is a step in the right direction.
(49:22):
Are there any books you wouldrecommend that we should read?
Yes.
I love your book, feel amazing.
Pop to Metapod's Chicks and youcan have it for free online.
Oh, I have many favorite books.
I follow the work of Dr.
Jerry Lynn Pryor, who is a guru atthe University of British Columbia.
(49:43):
I follow the work of Dr.
Lori Brado, who does a lotof research in sexual desire.
Which is the talk that comes up a lot.
Yeah.
Estrogen Matters is a bookthat I refer a lot of women to.
It specifically helps us unpack a bigquestion, which is the relationship
between hormone therapy and breast cancer.
(50:05):
And yeah, and I'm writinganother one for this year.
It's called Benapause.
It's different now.
Ooh, let's get you on this fall.
When, when is it coming out?
Uh, probably in the fall early fall.
Oh, please come back.
Let's talk about thatbefore the book comes out.
Yeah Anything else you want us to know?
(50:27):
I'm just really grateful that you havethis platform and that you are not only
cracking open the conversation, buthelping to change it because really
that will signify at the end of theday that we've done good work here.
We are all worthy of thisinformation and education.
And for those of you listening,it's really important, your time
(50:49):
and your investment in your health.
My hope is that seeing the work thatyou do, there will be a few more
people who are committed to puttingout quality information like you.
Thank you so much.
I hope you enjoyed this episode.
(51:10):
This week's advice from me, Yiyi, yourChinese auntie, is to be proactive
about your mental and physical health.
Talk to your friendsabout what is going on.
Now that I am in perimenopause,my body and sleep are changing.
Luckily, I have a few friendsI can talk to about this.
Also, please be aware of theinformation you gather on social media.
(51:35):
Research before you follow any adviceand always listen to your body.
Have a great week.
Thanks so much for listening tothis episode of the Conversations
with your Chinese Auntie podcast.
If you're enjoying the show, pleasefeel free to rate, subscribe,
and leave a review whereveryou listen to your podcast.
That helps others find the showand we greatly appreciate it.
(51:58):
Also, remember to sign upfor our newsletter to receive
free materials and updates.
Links in the website,patricia peterson.ca.
That's.
P A T R I C I A P E T E R S E N dot C A.
Again, thanks for listening.
We hope you have a great week, andwe'll see you in the next episode.
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