September 12, 2024 • 42 mins
Welcome to another episode of "Get Your Happy Back" with Nina Lockwood! Today, we explore how happiness can be found in the world of communication and public speaking with seasoned communication coach and keynote speaker, Kristy Mandour. Kristy is also a writer and host of The Sow to Speak podcast.
In this episode, Kristy shares her passion for reframing the fears around public speaking and helping leaders uncover their authentic voice. She discusses the importance of self-awareness, grounding techniques, and the significance of rehumanizing the workforce. Whether you're a mid-level manager, entrepreneur, or someone looking to enhance your communication skills, Kristy's insights will inspire you to connect more deeply with yourself and others.
Join us for practical tips, personal stories, and a compelling discussion on how to create a more compassionate and effective leadership style.
Connect with Kristy here:
https://www.linkedin.com/in/kristy-mandour/
https://www.facebook.com/kristy.mmandour
https://www.instagram.com/kristymandour/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
This is Nina Lockwood. Welcome to Get Your Happy Back.
Stories and insights that will inspire you to find new sources of happiness in your own life.
Hello and welcome to Get Your Happy Back.
And today I get to talk with Christy Mandur. Hi, Christy. Hi, Nina.
So good to have you here. Again, we take a slight left turn talking about happiness.
(00:25):
And although happiness is innate and there are things that we can do to allow
our happiness to be seen, heard and felt by others.
And what's so great about having Christy on the call today is that she is a
seasoned communications and public speaking coach and keynote speaker.
(00:49):
Christy, I'm going to turn it over to you to talk a little bit more about what
you do, what your backstory is, and what your mission is.
Well, first, I want to thank you for having me on and for our wonderful conversation pre-recording.
We could have talked all day. We had to put a hard stop to it.
We need to let other people in on this conversation.
(01:12):
That's the benefit of being a speaker. And the challenge of being a speaker
is you can just chat all day with people who you love.
But yeah, I am, you pretty much nailed it. I'm a communication and public speaking coach.
I absolutely am so passionate about reframing the way that we look at public speaking.
I feel that it's not shocking to everybody that it's one of the greatest fears,
(01:33):
if not the greatest fear of our many, many humans.
And I love reframing it because it works. So I use a lot of my background in
the performing arts to bring in the art side while also bringing in some science
because a lot of what goes past people's minds when it comes to speaking is
(01:54):
what's happening internally.
How are they speaking to themselves in their mindset and also in their body?
So we can get further into that for sure. But where I'm passionate and what
my mission is, is to really help people find and uncover cover their authentic
voice, specifically leaders.
And when I say leaders, it's mainly mid-level managers and up in organizations
(02:16):
who are purpose driven, who are passionate, who may just not know how to yet
articulate their authentic leadership voice, as well as entrepreneurs.
Nice. And what I liked about part of the bio that you sent me was how you phrased
it of rehumanizing the workforce.
Because, right, leadership has a voice. And I'd love you to talk about the kinds
(02:41):
of things that get in the way of people really being able to speak as if they're talking to one person.
Well, the long and short of that answer, Nina, is we get in the way.
Not us. We get in our own way. So often there's a wonderful U2 song called Get
(03:02):
Out of Your Own Way that I listen to frequently when I have to remind myself that it's a great tune.
You know, we get in our own way. And to go back a little bit,
the rehumanizing the workforce has always been at the beginning of so to speak.
So so to speak started eight years ago.
Hold on, talk about what is so to speak for those who don't know.
(03:22):
Yeah. So thank you. So So To Speak is the company that I started, S-O-W To Speak.
It started from a marketing workshop that I ran at a local incubator,
like a smaller scale WeWork for entrepreneurs.
How can they market their brand voice also while showing themselves as the human
behind the brand where everything aligns, right? Right. So you're not feeling
(03:46):
like it's tight package.
You're not feeling like there are many different stories being told and you're
not you're confused by what does this product, this service really stand for?
So then it just evolved, as many businesses do.
And I started doing team building workshops and I realized it was a bigger message
than just branding and marketing.
(04:09):
The rehumanizing piece of that before, you know, I'm, I'm going a little backwards
with my story, but you know, we'll get to the, what gets in the way.
We'll pin that for a minute if we could, because the rehumanizing side.
Really started years before I started, so to speak, I was working as a director
of programs at a local women's employment and resource center,
(04:33):
a nonprofit organization, helping women transition back into the workforce.
And there, it was a spectrum of women, women who were divorced,
separated, widowed, women who were recently released from jail,
women who were recently released from rehab, and we're trying to just shift in.
There's so many tentacles, for lack of a better term, involved in this.
(04:55):
It's so systemic. We know that.
But I realized that it wasn't just about transitioning them back into work.
It was about uncovering their voice that has been stifled for decades,
for their entire life, generational trauma, all of that.
And when they started, started when these women started listening internally
(05:17):
and also feeling a sense of connection and community, I realized it was rehumanizing them.
They were realizing that the people in front of them who came from all different
backgrounds, who were different ages, different races, different socioeconomic,
they started seeing each other as people. And it was incredibly powerful.
There was one woman who had hard knock life for sure.
(05:40):
And she had gone on a job interview. view. She hadn't gone on one for years,
if at all, to be honest, looking back.
And she went, she prepped for it. She came back. I said, how did it go?
She goes, I was more prepared than they were.
And I started laughing, but then it made me think I need to get into the organizations.
I need to move up where the decision makers are and bring this to them.
(06:03):
So that then ripples down, they were humanized their organization with the CEOs
and the presidents and the C-suites and the SVPs,
they rehumanize with the managers and the individual contributors so that when
they do start bringing more people in, it's a cultural shift.
It's literally a paradigm shift.
So that was the big piece of the rehumanize because I realized so many of us
(06:26):
are asleep in many different ways.
But when it comes to work, it really is, we hear oftentimes the ripple effect,
but it really does impact our entire community and then beyond.
Because you have people who go to work, they spend the majority of their time
there, no matter what they're doing. They come home, many are parents.
(06:47):
So say that their parents, the way they feel will then ripple out to their kids.
So if they're super stressed, their kids are going to be stressed.
Their kids then go to school. So then their education, our future leaders,
these kids is totally impacted.
The teachers aren't able to teach it. But if you start at the top and you start
bringing these practices that go way beyond public speaking and communication coaching,
(07:13):
it's a much more holistic experience. the coaching.
You know that. That's so great. I'm really glad that you brought that up.
It reminds me of a quote that I found by Chip Conley, who ran a boutique hotel
for 20 years, and then he became part of the senior board for Airbnb.
(07:37):
And I thought this quote was really useful because I was doing a presentation
for the Chamber of Commerce.
And what he said was the most unrecognized asset of any business is its people.
So what you're saying about rehumanizing and bringing our recognition of our
(07:58):
humanity into our everyday where we spend most of our time,
I think it's just fabulous because whether we're worried about the pressure
to to perform or time management or.
The pressure to be something rather than just being able to express what we
(08:21):
know and our skills and our talents.
You're right. We do get in our own way. And to be able to start from the top
down, I just love that idea because it's so important and it's so,
it's still pretty undervalued.
So what you're doing is fabulous.
Well, thank you. And I, you know, it takes, I really mean this,
it takes everybody to buy into it to really make the change.
(08:44):
And what you just said, about the Chip Connolly quote reminds me too,
it is undervalued the way we look at people who are part of an organization.
And at the same time, I feel like people feel oftentimes that leaders specifically
who want to have thriving businesses, they feel it's either or.
(09:06):
Either we are compassionate or we're competitive.
We can't have both. We can't be compassionate to people and bring in the profit
that we want to bring in and make the difference in the world that we want to
make or just bring in the profit that we want. We can't have both.
And I like to bring in the yes and piece, which is very, very popular specifically
(09:27):
within the improv world.
But it's basically saying yes and. I mean, literally yes and.
Yes, you can have that competitive edge and have compassion for the people.
And in fact, there are so many studies that show when you do show that that
gratitude, and that compassion for the people who are a part of making this happen.
Whatever the movement is, whatever the product or service is,
(09:50):
you actually thrive as a company because they feel more valued.
They realize that they're appreciated, they're motivated.
And I don't need to tell anybody listening in that retaining and putting that
work in costs a lot less than going out and rehiring all the people who leave
(10:10):
because they're miserable. you know?
Yes. So true. It's.
You know, on one level, we don't need all of the research to prove this.
We know this because we know what makes relationships work and we know what doesn't.
So to say, hey, wait a minute, let's add this component into the place where we spend most of our day.
(10:36):
Duh, of course you would do that. Well, to us, but you'd be surprised how many
people, people who are very goal oriented and want to achieve and accomplish.
They have blinders up. And some people who I've met through having the good
fortune of coaching, a lot of them don't mean to be so blinders up. It's just how they are.
(10:59):
It's just where they're at. It's what gave them that edge in their career trajectory
to be ambitious and to get things done.
And slowing, I would say, giving them an option to choose to slow down can be terrifying.
So to go back to your original question of what gets in the way of us speaking,
(11:21):
like we're speaking to one person, there are a few pieces to that,
but one is it's incredibly intimate.
And if you're not feeling safe in your body to slow down, then.
You're good luck. I mean, you're not going to be able to truly connect with
one person at a time, have those real, and I don't, and I'm not saying heart
(11:42):
to heart conversations.
I'm saying those conversations that when I say intimate, what I mean is where
you're with one person could be a direct report.
It could be a direct supervisor. It could be a colleague.
And you're having a conversation where you really understand how difficult it
is for you to bring up this topic about work, or even if you've noticed that
(12:02):
they have been off their game lately,
and it would be so much easier to just ignore it.
And oftentimes when you have those crucial conversations, you know,
internally that it's right, quote unquote, because internally you can feel it
because it's usually the harder choice.
So I work with people oftentimes on viewing public speaking as even in those
(12:25):
situations situations that you're public speaking, you're speaking to someone else.
How can you communicate in a way where you're showing up to have this conversation for them?
And when they look at it in this space of I'm here for them,
the energy in their system shifts, they feel safer.
We're meant to contribute or we're meant to be of service. That's how we're
(12:49):
wired in that sense sense of belonging, right?
And their anxiety level eases.
So we work a lot on that internal shift, whether it's speaking one-on-one,
whether it's doing a keynote, whether it's presenting to the board,
whether it's doing a video on social.
I mean, all of this is really putting ourselves out there in a way.
(13:11):
I consider all of that public speaking, not just the traditional behind a lectern.
Yeah, that makes so much sense.
It really seems like.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but it really seems like what you're introducing
is the concept of from me to we.
(13:33):
That's beautifully said, exactly.
And I totally also agree that.
Especially with women who are type A personalities who always have had to work
really hard and push, push, push, push, push to get to where they want to go in their career.
(13:57):
That quality of inclusion, if you will, kind of an extrapolation of the way
we use that word these days, but that kind of,
it's got to be us rather than only me, me, me.
It's threatening to people who are in those positions of responsibility and
(14:18):
leadership because they think, what if I give my,
if I'm giving something away rather than realizing I'm getting so much back
by including others and listening to others'
opinions and new ideas and new perspectives where they've got,
may have, they may have blinders thought.
(14:38):
Yeah. And the blind, it's so true. I love the me to we, it reminds me of the
phrase, I illness begins with I wellness begins with we. Ah, that's great.
Same type of idea. And the blinders are, are many different things.
Sometimes it's defense mechanisms that we don't even realize we have up.
(14:59):
And oftentimes it is because the more we open our blinders, literally,
if you think of like turning blinds, the more light comes in.
And if we're not used to it, we could be really overwhelmed.
But as I recently was reminded, when we turn a light on in a room and then we
turn another lamp on, it doesn't get darker, it gets brighter.
(15:19):
So, you know, it's like when you're with someone who you might feel a little
threatened by or competitive with, remember, we're socialized specifically as females.
Remember that you're caught. I mean, if you have any Any rebellious spirits
who listen in on this and you're talking about how to be happy?
I hope so. You know, competitive, competitive, as they say, competition's the thief of joy.
(15:43):
Comparison's the thief of joy. So it's this idea of,
a few things is I like to consistently look at it as it's all information and it's a signal.
So the minute I am sitting here and I'm looking at all of, say I was a visual
artist and I'm seeing all these beautiful pieces of art that Nina has behind her.
(16:03):
And I say to myself internally, like, oh my gosh, she's doing,
well, that one's not that great.
Like, you know, to make myself feel better because I haven't painted as much
as I've wanted to paint, or I feel threatened by you. instead of feeling like,
oh my gosh, if I'm totally honest, Nina is so prolific.
I'm feeling a little threatened by that. And instead I'm going to,
(16:26):
oh, that's a signal to be inspired. What is this telling me that I want?
And it takes practice and it takes slowing down. You can't do it fast.
It's just not how it goes.
And, and I'm speaking from experience. I'm high functioning,
and anxious. I run that way.
And it took a ton of work.
I want to say it was a full year that I spent over the last few years of knowing
(16:51):
what it felt like to feel safe in my body and realizing how terrifying it was
to slow down and notice all of the feelings that were in the sensations.
And, and I'm so grateful for all of the work that I've done on intuition and
embodied self-awareness of just noticing internally,
(17:11):
you know, embodied self-awareness is the sensations we physically feel versus
the cognitive self-awareness that we're all so used to, which is what do I like? What do I not like?
What type of morning person, night person strengths, weaknesses,
super important to understand embodied self-awareness is more.
Or, oh, I'm noticing my throat's getting tighter when Nina just asked me that question. Huh?
(17:33):
Because the more you notice it, you can then do something about it.
But if you're not safe in your body, it's going to take you down.
You're going to feel like, oh my gosh, my throat's closing and now my whole
body is shrinking instead of, oh, I actually have more control over opening that up.
And I work with people a lot on when that does happen instead of going into a shame spiral.
(17:56):
Or especially if you're, we were going on a little bit of a tangent here,
but like, especially if someone's speaking up in a meeting and they're not used
to, because let's be honest, the majority of these meetings for leaders of organizations,
executive leadership teams are predominantly men, predominantly white men still.
And so if a woman's in there or a minority of any sort, and they're used to
(18:20):
not speaking up and they speak up, that's a huge public speaking moment. It's huge.
And so I say, get used to your throat starting to close. Just know that that is just familiar.
Let's stop making it so big and like, oh, this is, it's just familiar.
It's just what your body has been doing.
(18:41):
And let's just make it a bit more objective and not as attached and just go,
this is just familiar. That's it's used to.
So that part of me, I'm going to go, you know what, hon, I got you.
And I talked to them about what can they do.
We practice ahead of time, opening up their chest, putting both feet on the
floor, putting their hands on the table, almost like you're holding potato chips,
(19:04):
you know, just loose so that you can get used to that.
And we'll practice that in session so that they can start getting used to what
it feels like opening at the end of the day, opening up and grounding versus
constricting their bodies.
That is so helpful.
I feel like I ran off a different direction. Sorry. It's fine.
I think that it's useful to be giving those specific examples.
(19:30):
As you say, a lot of us freak out when we start to feel some sensation in our body that is scary to us.
Or we have come up with a story about what it means to have that sensation.
When actually, as you say, it's a familiar habit, but it doesn't have to mean anything.
(19:52):
It just means, okay, Okay, there it is. And as I think you so rightly point out, the more we notice,
the less these things can come up and grab us in the butt and throw us down
because we're just becoming more aware.
And of course, we know that the key to everything is self-awareness.
It is. And it's funny because we do know that. Yeah, oftentimes the things we
(20:16):
know are the most difficult to practice consistently.
So that's why I say start small. I want to give your listeners a few, like, I love applying.
So if I can give them like just a few things that they can take away to apply
versus keeping this so big, you know, one of them I already shared was like
the grounding you and I have talked about too.
I'm a huge, huge proponent of like going out in the grass barefoot.
(20:41):
If anybody, you just need a patch of grass. You don't need anything crazy.
Even if you're going to a job interview or you're about to present to a client
or the board or hold a meeting for the first time as a leader or whatever it is.
You know, get to the, wherever you need to go a few minutes early.
If there's land around there, take your shoes off, who cares?
(21:02):
And put your feet in the grass because what that does is it brings your attention
back into your body and out of your head.
So it's, it's kind of like cold water to the face. It kind of snaps you out
of whatever's going on in your mind.
Oh, I hope I don't mess up what's going on, you know? And it reminds you to just take a breath.
Putting your hand on your heart is another one that helps if you do it simultaneously,
(21:25):
you will notice that you feel your body ground down.
Now, the reason we prep with the getting safe in our body is because if you're
not used to that and you ground down in the grass or otherwise,
and you put your hand on your heart,
you might actually, it might be counterproductive and you might freak out because
it's so not the norm of what's happening.
(21:48):
So the The more you can practice it, I always say in low stakes situations,
when you are, you know, we all go to the grocery store.
So before you get out of the car to go to the grocery store,
just notice what's going on.
My feeling, what? And I would even say there's been research on talking to ourselves
in the second and third person.
(22:09):
It creates, again, that notice space, that mind sight, as Dr.
Dan Siegel speaks on, that That idea of just giving us a little bit more of a removed connection.
We're still connected to ourselves, but we're not so I, I, I. Not so identified.
Exactly. And so this idea of just, how are you doing?
Keep it super simple. I always say, give yourself a kiss, K-I-S-S, keep it super simple.
(22:34):
And it's that way of giving yourself self-compassion. Traffic lights,
I say to everybody, traffic lights are built-in timers.
So instead of gunning it through the yellow, like so many of us do,
we don't even know why we're doing it. Sometimes we just do it out of habit.
Have the yellow light be a signal to catch the red light so that you can slow
(22:55):
down and you can check in.
You just notice, oh my gosh, I'm listening to these ads from this radio station.
How was I, or the news is still on. I didn't even realize, oh my gosh.
And then maybe you just turn off the radio.
I still listen to the radio. I do like listening to the, I feel like so many
people listen to podcasts and playlists and I have those too,
(23:18):
but I do listen to the radio once in a while for like the surprise element of
what song's going going to come on.
So I say, you know, you might be surprised and then you shut off and it's quiet.
And you're like, that's all I needed for my system to shift.
Or maybe you were about to go to the cafe to get a coffee and you realize,
oh my God, I need no more coffee.
And your system's like, thank you so much. I couldn't take any more caffeine.
(23:41):
So it doesn't have to be big. I always say start really micro small because
you're strengthening the same muscle to notice when when you're in the higher
stakes situations of answering a question on a podcast, pitching to an ideal client,
sitting across the table from three board members and proposing an idea, whatever it is, right?
(24:02):
And you're able to strengthen the same muscle of noticing that.
Can I just jump in for a second? Sure, of course. I want to go back to what
you were talking about of noticing and being more self-aware.
And that is, I think we forget how easily our senses can be overloaded and overwhelmed.
(24:27):
Because just think about it. During the day, you hear so many beeps and alarms
and noises coming from electronic devices.
And then if you're in a workspace, you have people talking.
You have all the other sounds that happen while you're in an office.
(24:49):
And if you're in a car, and most of us have a serious exam or something.
So we have something coming in all the time.
And then if you have that moment where you turn it off and there's silence,
it's like, holy smokes, yes,
I needed this, that we don't regulate ourselves in terms of sensory overload
(25:13):
and how that is really important to being able to collect ourselves before we talk to somebody,
whether whether it's our boss, a colleague,
someone who we're managing, any of those things, if we're.
On overdrive, and our senses are trying to say to us, just take a minute,
slow down here, take a breath.
(25:35):
If we don't honor that, how can we be present? How can we go from me to we?
Because then it's all about us and just continuing that overdrive.
It's so true. It's such a good point. And I'll even piggyback on and say it's
almost all about nobody at that point. It's not about you. It's not about me.
(25:56):
We don't even know what we're about at that point because we're just, there's no intent.
And you don't have to get super, you and I've talked about how spirituality
and how personal development can get so hoity-toity.
It doesn't have to get like that.
That's why I say, just break it down so simple. Keep it super simple. You know yourself.
(26:17):
The benefit of slowing down is that you can internally notice what you need.
And a lot of times we don't do it because it's super inconvenient.
Oftentimes we hear something and it's like, oh, but I don't want to have that
conversation or I don't want to leave that job or I don't want to have to make
that move in my business or whatever it is.
(26:39):
And you don't have to really, you know, people often get nervous about their
intuition. Like like, that means I have to do that right now. It's like, it doesn't.
It's just you strengthening, noticing it, and it will get louder if it's necessary.
But just remember, it's just you noticing. And to your point about shutting
off the noise, for some people, that isn't helpful.
(27:01):
So I share that as an example. Sometimes it's just noticing.
And if you're someone who's like, you know what? I don't.
The car is great because you can practice and experiment and explore alone.
So you might be like, yeah, I'm going to shut off the radio or the whatever's playing.
Other times you might say, I just don't like this. I want to put,
(27:23):
oh, I want to put on a song that's going to get me excited.
Or I want to put on a song that's nostalgic because to go from 100 to zero or
vice versa is too much for our systems. So you're not doing it wrong.
You know, if like putting no sound on is incredibly overwhelming to you.
(27:43):
It just is do something that's going to just allow you to feel a bit more aware
about what you need in that moment.
That's it. Yeah. Great. And the last piece that I'll add on when you were speaking
about prepping before we speak to a colleague or a group of people,
(28:04):
a lot of times as people advance in their career, they feel that they should know how to do it.
So they're like, I've been doing this for 20 years. I don't need to.
And I call BS on that because it is total mutual respect to be able to say to yourself,
Even if it's not for you, if it's an ego thing to say, you know what,
(28:24):
out of respect for this person, I'm going to just make sure I have all my ducks in a row.
I'm going to make sure that I, I clearly know what I want out of this conversation
or what I want them to receive out of this conversation.
Or if it's a presentation, I want to get really clear on, did I really put my
empathy hat on and like put myself in their perspective of like,
(28:45):
what would they really want from this presentation? What would make that feel
really like that was worth my time?
And you might be able to do it in less time as you become more seasoned,
but to give no prep at all is in its own way, it's like a disrespect.
And it's disrespectful to yourself.
(29:07):
Tell me more about that, because I have my own thoughts, but I would love your perspective on that.
For me, it goes back to the connection that we all have.
I mean, we all share our beingness, so to speak. We're all in this together.
And for my own growth and my own awareness, for me, in terms of speaking to
(29:32):
somebody else, I want that connection.
I want that heart-to-heart connection, even if I'm crunching numbers,
even if I'm doing something that doesn't seem touchy feeling,
we're still in it together.
It's you and I, and those moments of connection are when we can really hear each other.
(29:53):
So why would I do it to myself?
Because I I value efficiency more than connection.
So that's what I was thinking. So your turn.
Oh my gosh, 100%. And you worded that so articulate because yes,
so often we do look at people as like a check mark on a to-do list.
(30:17):
We don't mean to. Many people don't mean to, really, because I've had conversations
with incredibly ambitious, high-functioning anxiety leaders who are incredibly
humbled when we slow down.
And I tell them, do you know how much courage it takes to say that you actually
were looking at this as like a task?
(30:38):
Like you looked at this human as a task in human form, and they were just in
part of the checkoff list.
It takes so much courage to admit that because that's when you can start humanizing them.
It is so much easier to go to deflect
it or to go no I wasn't or it wasn't a big deal but to
actually cringe you know I often say it it's it's
(30:58):
part of the deal that we have to gross ourself out to
grow we have to have a cringe moment of like oh I can't believe I said that
or I can't and for some people it's like I can't believe I didn't speak up oh
my gosh but it's those parts of ourselves that also need our love so part of
the process of the three-month public speaking program that I run,
(31:19):
the first piece that we do is an assessment on emotional intelligence and energetic
so that you can understand like, where do situations pop up?
Where we go through seven different levels of emotion?
Like, where, where do I feel this stuff? When does so that you can start prepping
yourself, which goes to your point of respecting yourself, right?
And respecting the other person. The coolest thing about this is I always share
(31:43):
everything you're doing, quote, unquote, for yourself is simultaneously strengthening
your capacity to connect and respect other people. It's so cool.
So to your point about the efficiency piece, that's a yes and, right?
You're being efficient and you're becoming more connective with yourself and
others. And then we go into...
Getting really clear on core values in a way that isn't like a checkoff list.
(32:07):
It's an embodied self-awareness. I have them walk through like embodying what
matters to them so they can bring those not just into the conversation or into the presentation,
but then it gives you a window into what does this person care about?
What do these people, if I guessed what they valued, and then you can have the
conversation or the presentation really geared towards that.
(32:31):
And it's an unsaid respect that can be felt. It can be felt.
And then, you know, the idea of getting really clear on where would I like to
strengthen my communication impact as a leader goes back to that grossing ourselves out to grow.
Because then at that point, that's why we do those layers like that,
(32:52):
because at that point they feel so much more settled in and self-aware.
They feel safe enough with me, because we've built trust now,
and with themselves, most importantly, to really go, I'm going to call BS on
myself. It wasn't my finest moment.
I've had so many people say, to your point, oh my gosh, I just got promoted
(33:13):
and I actually feel threatened by my direct reports now.
And I want them to feel empowered, but I feel myself feeling overwhelmed with
all the stuff I'm doing because I'm scared of delegating to them because what if they do really well.
And then there's this, and I, and I would say, do you know how much courage
it takes to say that out loud?
Now we can get to work. Now you can speak to them with a stronger,
(33:36):
clearer, more confident voice, because we're going to, we're going to dismantle that idea.
Because just like we said before, you turn a light on in a room,
you turn their light on, it's just going to get brighter. It's not going to dim.
So it's so smart what you're saying. And,
You know, for any teacher, any person in a position of leadership.
(34:03):
They actually, their goal is to help
the person that they're working with transcend what they have to give.
So the greatest gift a spiritual
teacher can give their student is that they no longer need them because they've
(34:25):
been able to take what that teacher is pointing to and recognize what they need
and then say, okay, great. Thank you.
That's exactly what I needed. And then go off on their own.
So it's an interesting dilemma to be in to be afraid that your direct reports
(34:48):
are going to supersede you because you kind of want that because that's your job,
to make them as good as they can be as well as make yourself,
it's going back to the me to we again,
because by helping them grow, you grow.
Well, yes. And I will go back to you saying like self-awareness is key.
(35:10):
When you say that's their job, it is.
It's great. It's great to think that on the surface.
And that's where we go underneath because even though like, well, I want them to succeed.
Well, you're, there's a bit of a gap between your actions and what you're saying.
So that's when we get into the mindset. That's when we get into my number one
(35:31):
thing is to be like, none, like you're not a horrible person for admitting this.
Like, let's just call a spade a spade. Let's be human, human.
And the vast majority of leaders who are not, even the ones who call themselves
servant leaderships, like leaders,
it's human to feel that survival of the fittest, like it's built into our DNA.
(35:56):
Yeah, our socialization. I mean, there's so many tentacles again.
Like it's so much that I say, this is so not your fault.
So let's take blame out of the situation and say that you're actually just in
that second of you you acknowledging what you're doing behind what you're saying, you're a better leader.
(36:17):
We could finish, we could be at five minutes in on a session.
And I would say, if you had to leave right now, you would, you would walk out
that door, a better leader.
And you'd feel uncomfortable and you'd feel, you know, a layers off.
So it's a little raw, all that's super normal.
Your ego's going to start firing up and telling you all the,
all, all expect all of that.
(36:38):
Expect to feel like like, what the hell's going on?
Because that's part of the practice
of internally differentiating between your intuition and your ego.
Yeah. Yeah. It's big stuff. It's the best.
It really is. When you think about it, it goes back to self-awareness and wanting
(37:04):
to be the best you can, to deliver your best.
And every time you deliver your best, you see there's another opportunity to
grow even more, to expand even more.
And don't you think that's what people want? They want to keep seeing that the
world is wider and wider rather than narrower and narrower.
(37:26):
If you're literally asking me that question, this is my practical sense.
I feel some people want that. I hope my optimistic side is I hope more and more
people want that. And I do feel more and more people want that.
And I feel some people don't for whatever reason. You know, whether it's intentional
(37:47):
or just, again, their shades are drawn and they're internally asleep and it
might not be their karma this time around to wake up, you know, that's part of it too.
But my, my goal is just like yours from us speaking so frequently is it's really
to the people who are a little interested, who are just leaning in a little
(38:08):
bit more, who kind of get it and maybe you're kind of nervous, but they get it.
But those are the people who are the clients I work with.
Yeah. And they're the ones who do want to be the best.
And at the same time, I lean away from using that language with them. I do too.
Because they tend to be very perfectionistic and they are usually family people.
So they are like, it's either or. Either I'm a great parent or a great spouse
(38:34):
or a great leader, but I can't be all of it.
And then I feel like crap about myself. So we work on shifting that perspective.
And I, you know, when they come in and they go, don't I want to live my best
life? I'm like, you are talking to the wrong coach for that because I want you to live your whole life.
W-H-O-L-E. Our goal is to move from whole H-O-L-E to W-H-O-L-E.
(38:59):
And that is authentic. And it's not always your best. And it's,
it's giving yourself love when you're not showing up as your best quote unquote,
but you're showing up as the most whole life.
Genuine person that you could be.
I love that. I love that. Hole to hole.
And when you think about it, as you were describing what you were just describing, I was thinking about.
(39:23):
Kids, most kids are just, let me at it. Let me at life, right? Let me just try this.
Fearless, just doing anything and not worrying about it until they get older
and they get indoctrinated to be concerned about one thing or another.
But I think that's what I'm referring to when I talk about best.
(39:45):
It's really more about possibility and being open to possibility.
And And yes, many of us get closed down and suspicious about what that could mean as adults.
And yet, there's nothing like that feeling of what else is possible? What's next?
And yes, some people can't go there because whatever has happened to them that
(40:10):
precludes that choice. voice.
But wow, when you can go from whole, like the donut, to whole,
like me to we, nothing better than that. So true.
So as we come to a close, which I'm sorry about, but we'll do it again.
(40:32):
Tell us where people can reach you and if you have any last,
bits of wisdom that you can share with us? Sure. So everybody can go to those
who are interested to the so to speak podcast.
It is on Spotify, it's on Apple, I'll give you the link to that you can share.
And all the info of, you know, programs and offerings, if anybody's interested
(40:56):
in the public speaking three months coaching offer, if anybody's interested
to follow on LinkedIn or Instagram.
All that is in the podcast show notes. So the best thing about the podcast is
that it's short and sweet. You and I spoke about that.
I really lean into the idea of this is the, about this podcast and also words
(41:16):
of wisdom. So I'm being efficient with this.
The number one thing I consistently do in every single aspect of my business
and I work with clients on is create what you'd want to consume.
So I create the podcast as if, and if I hear it and I'm like,
I don't buy what I'm saying, or that's not, no, then it's out.
(41:38):
You know, Walter agrees.
It works though, within leadership, create what you want to consume.
Do you want to consume that communication from somebody?
Would you want to consume that? Would you want to to consume,
that culture, that environment.
If you're a leader, a huge part of the responsibility, and it's not shame,
blame, guilt, it's being able to respond to the environment so you can create
(42:03):
what you want to consume. Love that.
I'm ready to go for the rest of the day on this conversation. Me too.
So thank you again for joining me today. And for those of you who are listening,
Thank you also, and we will see you on the next episode. So bye for now.
(42:26):
Music.
This is Nina Lockwood. Welcome to Get Your Happy Back.
Stories and insights that will inspire you to find new sources of happiness in your own life.
Hello and welcome to Get Your Happy Back.
And today I get to talk with Christy Mandur. Hi, Christy. Hi, Nina.
So good to have you here. Again, we take a slight left turn talking about happiness.
(00:25):
And although happiness is innate and there are things that we can do to allow
our happiness to be seen, heard and felt by others.
And what's so great about having Christy on the call today is that she is a
seasoned communications and public speaking coach and keynote speaker.
(00:49):
Christy, I'm going to turn it over to you to talk a little bit more about what
you do, what your backstory is, and what your mission is.
Well, first, I want to thank you for having me on and for our wonderful conversation pre-recording.
We could have talked all day. We had to put a hard stop to it.
We need to let other people in on this conversation.
(01:12):
That's the benefit of being a speaker. And the challenge of being a speaker
is you can just chat all day with people who you love.
But yeah, I am, you pretty much nailed it. I'm a communication and public speaking coach.
I absolutely am so passionate about reframing the way that we look at public speaking.
I feel that it's not shocking to everybody that it's one of the greatest fears,
(01:33):
if not the greatest fear of our many, many humans.
And I love reframing it because it works. So I use a lot of my background in
the performing arts to bring in the art side while also bringing in some science
because a lot of what goes past people's minds when it comes to speaking is
(01:54):
what's happening internally.
How are they speaking to themselves in their mindset and also in their body?
So we can get further into that for sure. But where I'm passionate and what
my mission is, is to really help people find and uncover cover their authentic
voice, specifically leaders.
And when I say leaders, it's mainly mid-level managers and up in organizations
(02:16):
who are purpose driven, who are passionate, who may just not know how to yet
articulate their authentic leadership voice, as well as entrepreneurs.
Nice. And what I liked about part of the bio that you sent me was how you phrased
it of rehumanizing the workforce.
Because, right, leadership has a voice. And I'd love you to talk about the kinds
(02:41):
of things that get in the way of people really being able to speak as if they're talking to one person.
Well, the long and short of that answer, Nina, is we get in the way.
Not us. We get in our own way. So often there's a wonderful U2 song called Get
(03:02):
Out of Your Own Way that I listen to frequently when I have to remind myself that it's a great tune.
You know, we get in our own way. And to go back a little bit,
the rehumanizing the workforce has always been at the beginning of so to speak.
So so to speak started eight years ago.
Hold on, talk about what is so to speak for those who don't know.
(03:22):
Yeah. So thank you. So So To Speak is the company that I started, S-O-W To Speak.
It started from a marketing workshop that I ran at a local incubator,
like a smaller scale WeWork for entrepreneurs.
How can they market their brand voice also while showing themselves as the human
behind the brand where everything aligns, right? Right. So you're not feeling
(03:46):
like it's tight package.
You're not feeling like there are many different stories being told and you're
not you're confused by what does this product, this service really stand for?
So then it just evolved, as many businesses do.
And I started doing team building workshops and I realized it was a bigger message
than just branding and marketing.
(04:09):
The rehumanizing piece of that before, you know, I'm, I'm going a little backwards
with my story, but you know, we'll get to the, what gets in the way.
We'll pin that for a minute if we could, because the rehumanizing side.
Really started years before I started, so to speak, I was working as a director
of programs at a local women's employment and resource center,
(04:33):
a nonprofit organization, helping women transition back into the workforce.
And there, it was a spectrum of women, women who were divorced,
separated, widowed, women who were recently released from jail,
women who were recently released from rehab, and we're trying to just shift in.
There's so many tentacles, for lack of a better term, involved in this.
(04:55):
It's so systemic. We know that.
But I realized that it wasn't just about transitioning them back into work.
It was about uncovering their voice that has been stifled for decades,
for their entire life, generational trauma, all of that.
And when they started, started when these women started listening internally
(05:17):
and also feeling a sense of connection and community, I realized it was rehumanizing them.
They were realizing that the people in front of them who came from all different
backgrounds, who were different ages, different races, different socioeconomic,
they started seeing each other as people. And it was incredibly powerful.
There was one woman who had hard knock life for sure.
(05:40):
And she had gone on a job interview. view. She hadn't gone on one for years,
if at all, to be honest, looking back.
And she went, she prepped for it. She came back. I said, how did it go?
She goes, I was more prepared than they were.
And I started laughing, but then it made me think I need to get into the organizations.
I need to move up where the decision makers are and bring this to them.
(06:03):
So that then ripples down, they were humanized their organization with the CEOs
and the presidents and the C-suites and the SVPs,
they rehumanize with the managers and the individual contributors so that when
they do start bringing more people in, it's a cultural shift.
It's literally a paradigm shift.
So that was the big piece of the rehumanize because I realized so many of us
(06:26):
are asleep in many different ways.
But when it comes to work, it really is, we hear oftentimes the ripple effect,
but it really does impact our entire community and then beyond.
Because you have people who go to work, they spend the majority of their time
there, no matter what they're doing. They come home, many are parents.
(06:47):
So say that their parents, the way they feel will then ripple out to their kids.
So if they're super stressed, their kids are going to be stressed.
Their kids then go to school. So then their education, our future leaders,
these kids is totally impacted.
The teachers aren't able to teach it. But if you start at the top and you start
bringing these practices that go way beyond public speaking and communication coaching,
(07:13):
it's a much more holistic experience. the coaching.
You know that. That's so great. I'm really glad that you brought that up.
It reminds me of a quote that I found by Chip Conley, who ran a boutique hotel
for 20 years, and then he became part of the senior board for Airbnb.
(07:37):
And I thought this quote was really useful because I was doing a presentation
for the Chamber of Commerce.
And what he said was the most unrecognized asset of any business is its people.
So what you're saying about rehumanizing and bringing our recognition of our
(07:58):
humanity into our everyday where we spend most of our time,
I think it's just fabulous because whether we're worried about the pressure
to to perform or time management or.
The pressure to be something rather than just being able to express what we
(08:21):
know and our skills and our talents.
You're right. We do get in our own way. And to be able to start from the top
down, I just love that idea because it's so important and it's so,
it's still pretty undervalued.
So what you're doing is fabulous.
Well, thank you. And I, you know, it takes, I really mean this,
it takes everybody to buy into it to really make the change.
(08:44):
And what you just said, about the Chip Connolly quote reminds me too,
it is undervalued the way we look at people who are part of an organization.
And at the same time, I feel like people feel oftentimes that leaders specifically
who want to have thriving businesses, they feel it's either or.
(09:06):
Either we are compassionate or we're competitive.
We can't have both. We can't be compassionate to people and bring in the profit
that we want to bring in and make the difference in the world that we want to
make or just bring in the profit that we want. We can't have both.
And I like to bring in the yes and piece, which is very, very popular specifically
(09:27):
within the improv world.
But it's basically saying yes and. I mean, literally yes and.
Yes, you can have that competitive edge and have compassion for the people.
And in fact, there are so many studies that show when you do show that that
gratitude, and that compassion for the people who are a part of making this happen.
Whatever the movement is, whatever the product or service is,
(09:50):
you actually thrive as a company because they feel more valued.
They realize that they're appreciated, they're motivated.
And I don't need to tell anybody listening in that retaining and putting that
work in costs a lot less than going out and rehiring all the people who leave
(10:10):
because they're miserable. you know?
Yes. So true. It's.
You know, on one level, we don't need all of the research to prove this.
We know this because we know what makes relationships work and we know what doesn't.
So to say, hey, wait a minute, let's add this component into the place where we spend most of our day.
(10:36):
Duh, of course you would do that. Well, to us, but you'd be surprised how many
people, people who are very goal oriented and want to achieve and accomplish.
They have blinders up. And some people who I've met through having the good
fortune of coaching, a lot of them don't mean to be so blinders up. It's just how they are.
(10:59):
It's just where they're at. It's what gave them that edge in their career trajectory
to be ambitious and to get things done.
And slowing, I would say, giving them an option to choose to slow down can be terrifying.
So to go back to your original question of what gets in the way of us speaking,
(11:21):
like we're speaking to one person, there are a few pieces to that,
but one is it's incredibly intimate.
And if you're not feeling safe in your body to slow down, then.
You're good luck. I mean, you're not going to be able to truly connect with
one person at a time, have those real, and I don't, and I'm not saying heart
(11:42):
to heart conversations.
I'm saying those conversations that when I say intimate, what I mean is where
you're with one person could be a direct report.
It could be a direct supervisor. It could be a colleague.
And you're having a conversation where you really understand how difficult it
is for you to bring up this topic about work, or even if you've noticed that
(12:02):
they have been off their game lately,
and it would be so much easier to just ignore it.
And oftentimes when you have those crucial conversations, you know,
internally that it's right, quote unquote, because internally you can feel it
because it's usually the harder choice.
So I work with people oftentimes on viewing public speaking as even in those
(12:25):
situations situations that you're public speaking, you're speaking to someone else.
How can you communicate in a way where you're showing up to have this conversation for them?
And when they look at it in this space of I'm here for them,
the energy in their system shifts, they feel safer.
We're meant to contribute or we're meant to be of service. That's how we're
(12:49):
wired in that sense sense of belonging, right?
And their anxiety level eases.
So we work a lot on that internal shift, whether it's speaking one-on-one,
whether it's doing a keynote, whether it's presenting to the board,
whether it's doing a video on social.
I mean, all of this is really putting ourselves out there in a way.
(13:11):
I consider all of that public speaking, not just the traditional behind a lectern.
Yeah, that makes so much sense.
It really seems like.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but it really seems like what you're introducing
is the concept of from me to we.
(13:33):
That's beautifully said, exactly.
And I totally also agree that.
Especially with women who are type A personalities who always have had to work
really hard and push, push, push, push, push to get to where they want to go in their career.
(13:57):
That quality of inclusion, if you will, kind of an extrapolation of the way
we use that word these days, but that kind of,
it's got to be us rather than only me, me, me.
It's threatening to people who are in those positions of responsibility and
(14:18):
leadership because they think, what if I give my,
if I'm giving something away rather than realizing I'm getting so much back
by including others and listening to others'
opinions and new ideas and new perspectives where they've got,
may have, they may have blinders thought.
(14:38):
Yeah. And the blind, it's so true. I love the me to we, it reminds me of the
phrase, I illness begins with I wellness begins with we. Ah, that's great.
Same type of idea. And the blinders are, are many different things.
Sometimes it's defense mechanisms that we don't even realize we have up.
(14:59):
And oftentimes it is because the more we open our blinders, literally,
if you think of like turning blinds, the more light comes in.
And if we're not used to it, we could be really overwhelmed.
But as I recently was reminded, when we turn a light on in a room and then we
turn another lamp on, it doesn't get darker, it gets brighter.
(15:19):
So, you know, it's like when you're with someone who you might feel a little
threatened by or competitive with, remember, we're socialized specifically as females.
Remember that you're caught. I mean, if you have any Any rebellious spirits
who listen in on this and you're talking about how to be happy?
I hope so. You know, competitive, competitive, as they say, competition's the thief of joy.
(15:43):
Comparison's the thief of joy. So it's this idea of,
a few things is I like to consistently look at it as it's all information and it's a signal.
So the minute I am sitting here and I'm looking at all of, say I was a visual
artist and I'm seeing all these beautiful pieces of art that Nina has behind her.
(16:03):
And I say to myself internally, like, oh my gosh, she's doing,
well, that one's not that great.
Like, you know, to make myself feel better because I haven't painted as much
as I've wanted to paint, or I feel threatened by you. instead of feeling like,
oh my gosh, if I'm totally honest, Nina is so prolific.
I'm feeling a little threatened by that. And instead I'm going to,
(16:26):
oh, that's a signal to be inspired. What is this telling me that I want?
And it takes practice and it takes slowing down. You can't do it fast.
It's just not how it goes.
And, and I'm speaking from experience. I'm high functioning,
and anxious. I run that way.
And it took a ton of work.
I want to say it was a full year that I spent over the last few years of knowing
(16:51):
what it felt like to feel safe in my body and realizing how terrifying it was
to slow down and notice all of the feelings that were in the sensations.
And, and I'm so grateful for all of the work that I've done on intuition and
embodied self-awareness of just noticing internally,
(17:11):
you know, embodied self-awareness is the sensations we physically feel versus
the cognitive self-awareness that we're all so used to, which is what do I like? What do I not like?
What type of morning person, night person strengths, weaknesses,
super important to understand embodied self-awareness is more.
Or, oh, I'm noticing my throat's getting tighter when Nina just asked me that question. Huh?
(17:33):
Because the more you notice it, you can then do something about it.
But if you're not safe in your body, it's going to take you down.
You're going to feel like, oh my gosh, my throat's closing and now my whole
body is shrinking instead of, oh, I actually have more control over opening that up.
And I work with people a lot on when that does happen instead of going into a shame spiral.
(17:56):
Or especially if you're, we were going on a little bit of a tangent here,
but like, especially if someone's speaking up in a meeting and they're not used
to, because let's be honest, the majority of these meetings for leaders of organizations,
executive leadership teams are predominantly men, predominantly white men still.
And so if a woman's in there or a minority of any sort, and they're used to
(18:20):
not speaking up and they speak up, that's a huge public speaking moment. It's huge.
And so I say, get used to your throat starting to close. Just know that that is just familiar.
Let's stop making it so big and like, oh, this is, it's just familiar.
It's just what your body has been doing.
(18:41):
And let's just make it a bit more objective and not as attached and just go,
this is just familiar. That's it's used to.
So that part of me, I'm going to go, you know what, hon, I got you.
And I talked to them about what can they do.
We practice ahead of time, opening up their chest, putting both feet on the
floor, putting their hands on the table, almost like you're holding potato chips,
(19:04):
you know, just loose so that you can get used to that.
And we'll practice that in session so that they can start getting used to what
it feels like opening at the end of the day, opening up and grounding versus
constricting their bodies.
That is so helpful.
I feel like I ran off a different direction. Sorry. It's fine.
I think that it's useful to be giving those specific examples.
(19:30):
As you say, a lot of us freak out when we start to feel some sensation in our body that is scary to us.
Or we have come up with a story about what it means to have that sensation.
When actually, as you say, it's a familiar habit, but it doesn't have to mean anything.
(19:52):
It just means, okay, Okay, there it is. And as I think you so rightly point out, the more we notice,
the less these things can come up and grab us in the butt and throw us down
because we're just becoming more aware.
And of course, we know that the key to everything is self-awareness.
It is. And it's funny because we do know that. Yeah, oftentimes the things we
(20:16):
know are the most difficult to practice consistently.
So that's why I say start small. I want to give your listeners a few, like, I love applying.
So if I can give them like just a few things that they can take away to apply
versus keeping this so big, you know, one of them I already shared was like
the grounding you and I have talked about too.
I'm a huge, huge proponent of like going out in the grass barefoot.
(20:41):
If anybody, you just need a patch of grass. You don't need anything crazy.
Even if you're going to a job interview or you're about to present to a client
or the board or hold a meeting for the first time as a leader or whatever it is.
You know, get to the, wherever you need to go a few minutes early.
If there's land around there, take your shoes off, who cares?
(21:02):
And put your feet in the grass because what that does is it brings your attention
back into your body and out of your head.
So it's, it's kind of like cold water to the face. It kind of snaps you out
of whatever's going on in your mind.
Oh, I hope I don't mess up what's going on, you know? And it reminds you to just take a breath.
Putting your hand on your heart is another one that helps if you do it simultaneously,
(21:25):
you will notice that you feel your body ground down.
Now, the reason we prep with the getting safe in our body is because if you're
not used to that and you ground down in the grass or otherwise,
and you put your hand on your heart,
you might actually, it might be counterproductive and you might freak out because
it's so not the norm of what's happening.
(21:48):
So the The more you can practice it, I always say in low stakes situations,
when you are, you know, we all go to the grocery store.
So before you get out of the car to go to the grocery store,
just notice what's going on.
My feeling, what? And I would even say there's been research on talking to ourselves
in the second and third person.
(22:09):
It creates, again, that notice space, that mind sight, as Dr.
Dan Siegel speaks on, that That idea of just giving us a little bit more of a removed connection.
We're still connected to ourselves, but we're not so I, I, I. Not so identified.
Exactly. And so this idea of just, how are you doing?
Keep it super simple. I always say, give yourself a kiss, K-I-S-S, keep it super simple.
(22:34):
And it's that way of giving yourself self-compassion. Traffic lights,
I say to everybody, traffic lights are built-in timers.
So instead of gunning it through the yellow, like so many of us do,
we don't even know why we're doing it. Sometimes we just do it out of habit.
Have the yellow light be a signal to catch the red light so that you can slow
(22:55):
down and you can check in.
You just notice, oh my gosh, I'm listening to these ads from this radio station.
How was I, or the news is still on. I didn't even realize, oh my gosh.
And then maybe you just turn off the radio.
I still listen to the radio. I do like listening to the, I feel like so many
people listen to podcasts and playlists and I have those too,
(23:18):
but I do listen to the radio once in a while for like the surprise element of
what song's going going to come on.
So I say, you know, you might be surprised and then you shut off and it's quiet.
And you're like, that's all I needed for my system to shift.
Or maybe you were about to go to the cafe to get a coffee and you realize,
oh my God, I need no more coffee.
And your system's like, thank you so much. I couldn't take any more caffeine.
(23:41):
So it doesn't have to be big. I always say start really micro small because
you're strengthening the same muscle to notice when when you're in the higher
stakes situations of answering a question on a podcast, pitching to an ideal client,
sitting across the table from three board members and proposing an idea, whatever it is, right?
(24:02):
And you're able to strengthen the same muscle of noticing that.
Can I just jump in for a second? Sure, of course. I want to go back to what
you were talking about of noticing and being more self-aware.
And that is, I think we forget how easily our senses can be overloaded and overwhelmed.
(24:27):
Because just think about it. During the day, you hear so many beeps and alarms
and noises coming from electronic devices.
And then if you're in a workspace, you have people talking.
You have all the other sounds that happen while you're in an office.
(24:49):
And if you're in a car, and most of us have a serious exam or something.
So we have something coming in all the time.
And then if you have that moment where you turn it off and there's silence,
it's like, holy smokes, yes,
I needed this, that we don't regulate ourselves in terms of sensory overload
(25:13):
and how that is really important to being able to collect ourselves before we talk to somebody,
whether whether it's our boss, a colleague,
someone who we're managing, any of those things, if we're.
On overdrive, and our senses are trying to say to us, just take a minute,
slow down here, take a breath.
(25:35):
If we don't honor that, how can we be present? How can we go from me to we?
Because then it's all about us and just continuing that overdrive.
It's so true. It's such a good point. And I'll even piggyback on and say it's
almost all about nobody at that point. It's not about you. It's not about me.
(25:56):
We don't even know what we're about at that point because we're just, there's no intent.
And you don't have to get super, you and I've talked about how spirituality
and how personal development can get so hoity-toity.
It doesn't have to get like that.
That's why I say, just break it down so simple. Keep it super simple. You know yourself.
(26:17):
The benefit of slowing down is that you can internally notice what you need.
And a lot of times we don't do it because it's super inconvenient.
Oftentimes we hear something and it's like, oh, but I don't want to have that
conversation or I don't want to leave that job or I don't want to have to make
that move in my business or whatever it is.
(26:39):
And you don't have to really, you know, people often get nervous about their
intuition. Like like, that means I have to do that right now. It's like, it doesn't.
It's just you strengthening, noticing it, and it will get louder if it's necessary.
But just remember, it's just you noticing. And to your point about shutting
off the noise, for some people, that isn't helpful.
(27:01):
So I share that as an example. Sometimes it's just noticing.
And if you're someone who's like, you know what? I don't.
The car is great because you can practice and experiment and explore alone.
So you might be like, yeah, I'm going to shut off the radio or the whatever's playing.
Other times you might say, I just don't like this. I want to put,
(27:23):
oh, I want to put on a song that's going to get me excited.
Or I want to put on a song that's nostalgic because to go from 100 to zero or
vice versa is too much for our systems. So you're not doing it wrong.
You know, if like putting no sound on is incredibly overwhelming to you.
(27:43):
It just is do something that's going to just allow you to feel a bit more aware
about what you need in that moment.
That's it. Yeah. Great. And the last piece that I'll add on when you were speaking
about prepping before we speak to a colleague or a group of people,
(28:04):
a lot of times as people advance in their career, they feel that they should know how to do it.
So they're like, I've been doing this for 20 years. I don't need to.
And I call BS on that because it is total mutual respect to be able to say to yourself,
Even if it's not for you, if it's an ego thing to say, you know what,
(28:24):
out of respect for this person, I'm going to just make sure I have all my ducks in a row.
I'm going to make sure that I, I clearly know what I want out of this conversation
or what I want them to receive out of this conversation.
Or if it's a presentation, I want to get really clear on, did I really put my
empathy hat on and like put myself in their perspective of like,
(28:45):
what would they really want from this presentation? What would make that feel
really like that was worth my time?
And you might be able to do it in less time as you become more seasoned,
but to give no prep at all is in its own way, it's like a disrespect.
And it's disrespectful to yourself.
(29:07):
Tell me more about that, because I have my own thoughts, but I would love your perspective on that.
For me, it goes back to the connection that we all have.
I mean, we all share our beingness, so to speak. We're all in this together.
And for my own growth and my own awareness, for me, in terms of speaking to
(29:32):
somebody else, I want that connection.
I want that heart-to-heart connection, even if I'm crunching numbers,
even if I'm doing something that doesn't seem touchy feeling,
we're still in it together.
It's you and I, and those moments of connection are when we can really hear each other.
(29:53):
So why would I do it to myself?
Because I I value efficiency more than connection.
So that's what I was thinking. So your turn.
Oh my gosh, 100%. And you worded that so articulate because yes,
so often we do look at people as like a check mark on a to-do list.
(30:17):
We don't mean to. Many people don't mean to, really, because I've had conversations
with incredibly ambitious, high-functioning anxiety leaders who are incredibly
humbled when we slow down.
And I tell them, do you know how much courage it takes to say that you actually
were looking at this as like a task?
(30:38):
Like you looked at this human as a task in human form, and they were just in
part of the checkoff list.
It takes so much courage to admit that because that's when you can start humanizing them.
It is so much easier to go to deflect
it or to go no I wasn't or it wasn't a big deal but to
actually cringe you know I often say it it's it's
(30:58):
part of the deal that we have to gross ourself out to
grow we have to have a cringe moment of like oh I can't believe I said that
or I can't and for some people it's like I can't believe I didn't speak up oh
my gosh but it's those parts of ourselves that also need our love so part of
the process of the three-month public speaking program that I run,
(31:19):
the first piece that we do is an assessment on emotional intelligence and energetic
so that you can understand like, where do situations pop up?
Where we go through seven different levels of emotion?
Like, where, where do I feel this stuff? When does so that you can start prepping
yourself, which goes to your point of respecting yourself, right?
And respecting the other person. The coolest thing about this is I always share
(31:43):
everything you're doing, quote, unquote, for yourself is simultaneously strengthening
your capacity to connect and respect other people. It's so cool.
So to your point about the efficiency piece, that's a yes and, right?
You're being efficient and you're becoming more connective with yourself and
others. And then we go into...
Getting really clear on core values in a way that isn't like a checkoff list.
(32:07):
It's an embodied self-awareness. I have them walk through like embodying what
matters to them so they can bring those not just into the conversation or into the presentation,
but then it gives you a window into what does this person care about?
What do these people, if I guessed what they valued, and then you can have the
conversation or the presentation really geared towards that.
(32:31):
And it's an unsaid respect that can be felt. It can be felt.
And then, you know, the idea of getting really clear on where would I like to
strengthen my communication impact as a leader goes back to that grossing ourselves out to grow.
Because then at that point, that's why we do those layers like that,
(32:52):
because at that point they feel so much more settled in and self-aware.
They feel safe enough with me, because we've built trust now,
and with themselves, most importantly, to really go, I'm going to call BS on
myself. It wasn't my finest moment.
I've had so many people say, to your point, oh my gosh, I just got promoted
(33:13):
and I actually feel threatened by my direct reports now.
And I want them to feel empowered, but I feel myself feeling overwhelmed with
all the stuff I'm doing because I'm scared of delegating to them because what if they do really well.
And then there's this, and I, and I would say, do you know how much courage
it takes to say that out loud?
Now we can get to work. Now you can speak to them with a stronger,
(33:36):
clearer, more confident voice, because we're going to, we're going to dismantle that idea.
Because just like we said before, you turn a light on in a room,
you turn their light on, it's just going to get brighter. It's not going to dim.
So it's so smart what you're saying. And,
You know, for any teacher, any person in a position of leadership.
(34:03):
They actually, their goal is to help
the person that they're working with transcend what they have to give.
So the greatest gift a spiritual
teacher can give their student is that they no longer need them because they've
(34:25):
been able to take what that teacher is pointing to and recognize what they need
and then say, okay, great. Thank you.
That's exactly what I needed. And then go off on their own.
So it's an interesting dilemma to be in to be afraid that your direct reports
(34:48):
are going to supersede you because you kind of want that because that's your job,
to make them as good as they can be as well as make yourself,
it's going back to the me to we again,
because by helping them grow, you grow.
Well, yes. And I will go back to you saying like self-awareness is key.
(35:10):
When you say that's their job, it is.
It's great. It's great to think that on the surface.
And that's where we go underneath because even though like, well, I want them to succeed.
Well, you're, there's a bit of a gap between your actions and what you're saying.
So that's when we get into the mindset. That's when we get into my number one
(35:31):
thing is to be like, none, like you're not a horrible person for admitting this.
Like, let's just call a spade a spade. Let's be human, human.
And the vast majority of leaders who are not, even the ones who call themselves
servant leaderships, like leaders,
it's human to feel that survival of the fittest, like it's built into our DNA.
(35:56):
Yeah, our socialization. I mean, there's so many tentacles again.
Like it's so much that I say, this is so not your fault.
So let's take blame out of the situation and say that you're actually just in
that second of you you acknowledging what you're doing behind what you're saying, you're a better leader.
(36:17):
We could finish, we could be at five minutes in on a session.
And I would say, if you had to leave right now, you would, you would walk out
that door, a better leader.
And you'd feel uncomfortable and you'd feel, you know, a layers off.
So it's a little raw, all that's super normal.
Your ego's going to start firing up and telling you all the,
all, all expect all of that.
(36:38):
Expect to feel like like, what the hell's going on?
Because that's part of the practice
of internally differentiating between your intuition and your ego.
Yeah. Yeah. It's big stuff. It's the best.
It really is. When you think about it, it goes back to self-awareness and wanting
(37:04):
to be the best you can, to deliver your best.
And every time you deliver your best, you see there's another opportunity to
grow even more, to expand even more.
And don't you think that's what people want? They want to keep seeing that the
world is wider and wider rather than narrower and narrower.
(37:26):
If you're literally asking me that question, this is my practical sense.
I feel some people want that. I hope my optimistic side is I hope more and more
people want that. And I do feel more and more people want that.
And I feel some people don't for whatever reason. You know, whether it's intentional
(37:47):
or just, again, their shades are drawn and they're internally asleep and it
might not be their karma this time around to wake up, you know, that's part of it too.
But my, my goal is just like yours from us speaking so frequently is it's really
to the people who are a little interested, who are just leaning in a little
(38:08):
bit more, who kind of get it and maybe you're kind of nervous, but they get it.
But those are the people who are the clients I work with.
Yeah. And they're the ones who do want to be the best.
And at the same time, I lean away from using that language with them. I do too.
Because they tend to be very perfectionistic and they are usually family people.
So they are like, it's either or. Either I'm a great parent or a great spouse
(38:34):
or a great leader, but I can't be all of it.
And then I feel like crap about myself. So we work on shifting that perspective.
And I, you know, when they come in and they go, don't I want to live my best
life? I'm like, you are talking to the wrong coach for that because I want you to live your whole life.
W-H-O-L-E. Our goal is to move from whole H-O-L-E to W-H-O-L-E.
(38:59):
And that is authentic. And it's not always your best. And it's,
it's giving yourself love when you're not showing up as your best quote unquote,
but you're showing up as the most whole life.
Genuine person that you could be.
I love that. I love that. Hole to hole.
And when you think about it, as you were describing what you were just describing, I was thinking about.
(39:23):
Kids, most kids are just, let me at it. Let me at life, right? Let me just try this.
Fearless, just doing anything and not worrying about it until they get older
and they get indoctrinated to be concerned about one thing or another.
But I think that's what I'm referring to when I talk about best.
(39:45):
It's really more about possibility and being open to possibility.
And And yes, many of us get closed down and suspicious about what that could mean as adults.
And yet, there's nothing like that feeling of what else is possible? What's next?
And yes, some people can't go there because whatever has happened to them that
(40:10):
precludes that choice. voice.
But wow, when you can go from whole, like the donut, to whole,
like me to we, nothing better than that. So true.
So as we come to a close, which I'm sorry about, but we'll do it again.
(40:32):
Tell us where people can reach you and if you have any last,
bits of wisdom that you can share with us? Sure. So everybody can go to those
who are interested to the so to speak podcast.
It is on Spotify, it's on Apple, I'll give you the link to that you can share.
And all the info of, you know, programs and offerings, if anybody's interested
(40:56):
in the public speaking three months coaching offer, if anybody's interested
to follow on LinkedIn or Instagram.
All that is in the podcast show notes. So the best thing about the podcast is
that it's short and sweet. You and I spoke about that.
I really lean into the idea of this is the, about this podcast and also words
(41:16):
of wisdom. So I'm being efficient with this.
The number one thing I consistently do in every single aspect of my business
and I work with clients on is create what you'd want to consume.
So I create the podcast as if, and if I hear it and I'm like,
I don't buy what I'm saying, or that's not, no, then it's out.
(41:38):
You know, Walter agrees.
It works though, within leadership, create what you want to consume.
Do you want to consume that communication from somebody?
Would you want to consume that? Would you want to to consume,
that culture, that environment.
If you're a leader, a huge part of the responsibility, and it's not shame,
blame, guilt, it's being able to respond to the environment so you can create
(42:03):
what you want to consume. Love that.
I'm ready to go for the rest of the day on this conversation. Me too.
So thank you again for joining me today. And for those of you who are listening,
Thank you also, and we will see you on the next episode. So bye for now.
(42:26):
Music.
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.