March 20, 2025 • 32 mins
In this episode of Peace of Mind for Pet Parents, Gail Pope and Karen Wylie explore the world of chronic conditions in pets—what they are, how they impact both pets and their caregivers, and the different ways to manage them with love and confidence.
Chronic diagnoses like kidney disease, diabetes, arthritis, and hypothyroidism require ongoing care, but they don’t have to feel overwhelming. Gail and Karen discuss the importance of forming a partnership with your veterinarian, understanding the emotional impact of a diagnosis, and finding practical solutions for administering medications, managing symptoms, and maintaining quality of life.
They also highlight the emotional journey of caregiving, emphasizing how pet parents can find peace of mind, embrace self-care, and avoid burnout while supporting their beloved animals.
Whether you’re navigating a newly diagnosed condition or have been caring for a pet with long-term needs, this episode offers valuable insights, encouragement, and practical tips to help you move forward with confidence and compassion.
✨ Join us as we break down chronic conditions, share personal stories, and explore ways to make caregiving a little easier—for both you and your pet!
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Disclaimer: This content is for educational purposes and not a substitute for professional advice.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Welcome to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents, the podcast by BrightHaven Caregiver Academy.
I'm Gail Pope and I'm Karen Wylie.
And together we're here to support you in navigating life with your aging or ill pets.
We know how deeply you care for your beloved companions, and we're here to offer guidance, understanding, and resources for this meaningful journey.
(00:25):
Each episode we'll explore topics that address the daily challenges, emotional realities, and choices you face as a pet parent helping you and your pets find peace, comfort, and joy.
Whether it's making sense of a new diagnosis, adjusting to changing needs, or simply seeking a place to feel understood, you're not alone.
(00:47):
Thank you for being here with us.
Karen Wylie (00:51):
Hello and welcome to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
I'm Karen Wylie here, as usual, with Gail Pope.
And in our last conversation we were taking a look at life-changing diagnoses for you and your pet.
And we tend to view them in three categories of chronic diagnoses, difficult to manage, diagnoses, and certainly terminal diagnoses because
(01:24):
illnesses and conditions that fall into each one of those have different impacts on each of us as a caregiver and on our pets.
And so today we're gonna be focusing on chronic diagnoses.
Followed next week and the week after with difficult to manage and terminal conditions.
And Gail, maybe starting out, we should talk about some of the types of conditions and illnesses, diseases that fall in the category of chronic diagnoses.
(01:54):
What Which ones would you pull out?
Gail Pope (01:57):
I think actually before that, something that actually just occurred to me and probably a lot because of my advanced age is that I think the term chronic illness is actually new still to some people in some cultures particularly because I grew up and into an adult world where there wasn't an internet.
(02:22):
We couldn't ask Google, "what's this and how do I manage it?"
We didn't have all that technology.
I think for a pet parent when there was something out of balance with their animal, their lifeline was their veterinarian, and the veterinarian didn't talk, or he may have said, "There's something wrong with the kidneys and this isn't an acute thing. It's more chronic." So the words may have been used, but I don't think I ever really thought about something that was a chronic condition rather than the different things that I had experienced.
(02:57):
Gradually, as BrightHaven started to grow, I had experience with all these things and I worked for a vet, so I started to become more familiar with the technology, but I don't necessarily think people are aware of how many differences there are and the kind of illness and how you deal with it.
But yes, that wasn't really answering your question, but without doubt, kidney disease.
Karen Wylie (03:20):
Maybe the first question then is
what is a chronic condition?
Rather than giving it a name of typical diseases but what is a chronic condition?
I guess where I would start would be that it is a condition that is gonna last months or years.
That is probably gonna require ongoing care at some level and that investment of time and energy might increase over time.
(03:49):
The condition may not just stay the way it is when the diagnosis first takes place, but it could get more serious, it could have different ramifications.
And that usually I think when we're focusing on a chronic condition, we're not thinking of a cure for it.
We're thinking of stabilizing it, maintaining it.
(04:10):
If something's labeled something chronic that we're not expecting it to necessarily go away completely, but that we can, we wanna figure out how to manage it better.
Or not.
Gail Pope (04:23):
Yeah.
You're making me think about that because that's a really good point.
I hadn't thought because over the years, I guess I've learned to focus on healing for the highest good and that kind of fits with the chronic word.
It is just dealing with something and offering healing for its for the highest good of the being.
(04:45):
So I think it's interesting to look at the actual word chronic as we're doing.
I've never done that before.
Stops me in my tracks a little bit.
Karen Wylie (04:57):
That was the thing is, over our last 18 months as we've been developing BCA and our frameworks and our approach to everything.
We do know that our lives are so dramatically affected by what goes on with our pets.
We love them.
They're members of our family, and we're responsible for them.
And so when we get any kind of diagnosis, it's gonna change our life in some way.
(05:21):
We're gonna have to monitor differently.
We may have to feed differently.
There may be a pill involved, or there's gonna be something different that we have to do.
And whether it's, again, the chronic, the difficult to manage or the terminal, and there's maybe in another year or two we'll be slicing those up in 27 different ways.
(05:42):
But right now those are the kind of the three buckets we've got.
To try to identify what a caregiver, a pet parent
can do in approaching these kind of diagnoses and how it affects them?
I think certainly one of the things is when I get, when I, over the years, when I'd get a diagnosis of stage one kidney disease
Gail Pope (06:04):
Yes.
Karen Wylie (06:05):
It's good to know about because you can make sure their hydration is really good and maybe you up the wet food, minimize the dry food, consider fresh food.
You can start looking at different things.
Maybe you need to give a pill, but you don't emotionally begin panicking because you think your animal is dying.
(06:27):
Whereas I think with the other diagnoses, each of us because we love them so much,
that's when the fear creeps in and can block us from learning what we can do differently to support them.
You can get a diagnosis, on a difficult to manage diagnosis and certainly diagnosis and certainly the terminal and you can spend your whole weekend on Google thinking you're gonna get a DVM degree in a weekend.
(06:52):
You know, if you're gonna figure it out how to save your baby.
I don't think with a chronic disease that, that's, I don't go there with those diagnoses.
Okay, I’ll shush.
Gail Pope (07:03):
I still think though that the word cure, the word fear, and the word death still come in for a lot of people because if they don't know the nature of that illness, they're told he has issues with his kidneys
Karen Wylie (07:19):
Hypothyroid
Gail Pope (07:20):
Yeah, well the caregiver really does have to step back to take time to take in, to absorb the fact that it's manageable.
But then they come into, "how am I gonna cure it?"
So they have to learn that little piece and understand that they may or may not but technically there isn't really any cure for life other than death at the very bottom of the chart.
(07:46):
But I think knowing it's restoring hope and I guess it all comes down to the to the parent educating themselves about "What it is?" and then taking the next baby step into
"What can I do?"
"What do I need to change?"
"How do I need to change it?"
talking about medicine,
"What type of medicine will it be?"
(08:06):
"Holistic medicine, conventional, or should it be a mix of both?" And other practitioners, "Would acupuncture help?"
So I think that period of time is the next steps is gonna be a huge one.
Once they've got over the
"Ugh, he's got diabetes"
for instance, or whatever it is that, there's that huge learning period that comes about, "what it is?" And "what that means?" And at the bottom of that little thought is "How long can he live with it?"
(08:34):
So you've still got that little fear thing in there.
But once you start to educate yourself more, then you start to step into a more comfortable place, realizing,
"Whew, I've talked myself off the ledge.
I've learned.
I know there's a lot I can do.
I need to focus on what I can do."
And so you put yourself off that ledge and straight into "Yes" and maybe you want to join a group of other people that are dealing with the same thing.
(08:58):
A forum that allows you to discuss something
Karen Wylie (09:01):
Do you mean like a hub, like a caregiver's hub?
Gail Pope (09:03):
You mean a BrightHaven Caregiver's Hub.
Oh, that's good.
But yes, talking to other people who have experience when you don't have it.
Karen Wylie (09:13):
Right.
Gail Pope (09:14):
It underscores anything that your vet has told you that might be, "Oh God, could I do that?" You still have to dot your I's and T's and when six or seven people come along and say, "Oh yes, I remember that my cat Fluffy was diagnosed and somebody suggested I did whatever it was, and oh my goodness, it really helped."
(09:36):
Whether it be her stool or whatever it was.
But there's another little thing that you can add into your comfort care kit as it were about things to remember that might help.
Karen Wylie (09:47):
Once they understand the "What it is?"
And I guess understanding why it occurred so that they can release some, any guilt they might have that something they did or didn't do has caused the issue.
'cause I think that's something we all, we all sift through that, and are worried that there was something we did or something we should have done instead that may have had an effect.
(10:11):
You bringing up the veterinary role a little bit.
What is the veterinary role in with a chronic condition?
And let me ask 'cause I'll pull in Purrci and Ollie and Andy here.
Their diagnoses may, or their conditions may be a little bit of chronic, but also difficult to manage.
Gail Pope (10:31):
Oh, gosh, yes.
Karen Wylie (10:32):
With what's going on with them.
So I'll leave that to you, but to explain as much as you want or don't, but what is the role of a veterinarian when there is a chronic condition?
How do you see that role or partnership taking place?
Gail Pope (10:45):
Exactly that.
That's where my mind is going with the situation, because it's always different.
Karen Wylie (10:50):
Yeah.
Gail Pope (10:50):
I think from the vet side, it's ensuring that he or she can impart as much knowledge as the caregiver in front of them— needs and wishes.
And maybe it isn't all in one go.
Maybe it's an overview and an email follow up that will give you a little more information or a link to a particular paper or something that might actually help.
(11:16):
Different people want to know more or less.
I certainly have found that some people are like,
"I don't want all the information.
I just need this bit.
I just need to know what it is and what to expect.
And what I have to do, what pills do I need?" Some people just don't want the big picture.
It's all too much.
I think it would've been for me in the early days
(11:37):
"What does this mean?"
"How's it going to change my life?"
And "Can I cope?"
If someone has a full-time job and they have certain hours that they're at home each day, instantly the thought is,
"How am I gonna manage this?"
"Do I have to be there more often?"
"What do I do?"
So I think that, again, it's multifaceted, isn't it?
Karen Wylie (11:55):
It really is!
Each type of diagnosis is gonna, and as you're saying, it really depends on the individual and how much information they want or don't want.
Gail Pope (12:05):
And it's again, the same old problem that we come up with for veterinarians which makes it also a problem for their clients is time.
And I think if a veterinarian has a wonderful team helping him, like I'm so happy that mine does, if there are questions that come afterwards, which pretty much is bound to happen with a diagnosis.
(12:30):
It wasn't expected the vets explained as much or as little as is possible in that meeting, but then the caregiver goes home, they may be absolutely fine.
It may be, "Yes, I know all about that and I don't need to know more now", but I would say perhaps a majority of us scribble down, "Oh, I need to ask about that.
Oh, I wonder, oh, let me go to Google and check that.
(12:52):
But I wonder what the dose would be?"
There are so many little things that come up that I think having communication with maybe the back office to be able to ask questions.
I know if I send a note to the office email from my vet sometimes I'll get a very quick answer and other times I'll get an answer that says, "I'll run that by the doctor and get back to you." So I think having that feeling for the client that they're not alone.
Karen Wylie (13:22):
Yeah.
A little bit more of that safety net of knowing there is a place you can go to ask questions and that you will get answers.
And that can be tough especially when your appointment is over with and you're thinking of your question as you're driving home or as you're sleeping that first night.
Afterwards, it's "I should have asked, X, Y, Z."
Gail Pope (13:44):
Yeah.
Karen Wylie (13:45):
And you do email or you call and then you have to make sure that you know someone not only understands your question and that's where email really helps.
But then, how quickly are you gonna get an answer, which is important too as part of coping.
I think I was thinking about some of the— I'll control my executive producer here this way.
Gail Pope (14:07):
I think she has something to say.
Karen Wylie (14:09):
Callie, she is a little tortie Calico.
She's has been opinionated.
I always say they're opinionated.
She always has something to say.
And she is 12 with no conditions that we know of.
That's where I was gonna go actually is I think part of how we all cope with a chronic diagnosis, a diagnosis or not is whether we're expecting it or not.
(14:33):
You know, Sometimes you see something happening with your pet that you notice is different.
Whether they're drinking more water or less water.
They're more active and restless, or they're sleeping more and they're less active.
Those are extremes but you start to notice something different and you initiate the vet visit to try to find out what might be going on.
(14:59):
So in that case, you're a little more prepared for something perhaps being identified to be dealt with.
Gail Pope (15:06):
And it's a relief, I imagine at that stage because it's,
Karen Wylie (15:09):
Yeah, as long as it's in that chronic category where it's "Oh, there's something we can do about this. Okay, I can cope really better with that."
But sometimes the diagnoses come out of the regular annual exam and you can get so used to doing that on an annual basis.
And everything's always fine.
(15:30):
You just, you're going through a ritual.
Whether it's vaccinations, if you're with a conventional vet one or three year rabies shots is required by law in wherever you live.
It's like you get into a routine of doing certain things and that doesn't mean that when they do some kind of basic lab work and you get feedback that there's actually something identifiably wrong, that something that needs to be dealt with.
(15:56):
That can be a big shock to you.
The rug can be pulled out from under you even with a chronic condition, I think.
Gail Pope (16:03):
Definitely.
I'm just thinking that a lot of the consultation work I do, really, people have gone to the vet with no knowledge of anything being wrong and they're in shock.
And they're doing one of the things that I think that is really important and it really stems from talking to your veterinarian as well is reaching out for help, for support as much as help.
(16:27):
Talk to your friends, talk to your family.
Just feel you've got loving support around you while you're gathering your way forward together.
In your mind,
"How do I cope? What am I gonna do?"
Because I think when we all have a problem of any kind, once we actually have a plan, it's
"Yeah, I got this. I can do it."
But until then, you do need support.
(16:49):
It's like you need some other brains to come along and just help you stay calm and give you ideas and let's put it together.
Karen Wylie (16:58):
And like you were saying earlier, sometimes that's gonna come from people who have more experience in that particular
Gail Pope (17:05):
Yes.
Karen Wylie (17:06):
Mission and they can be sharing what worked or what didn't and their various advice.
Sometimes it's information that's printed or on screen or provided by your vet as you try to do something with that.
Generally, if a chronic condition is identified, there's usually something you can do about it.
(17:27):
I was thinking about how some of the chronic conditions require new skills.
Diabetes for example, in terms of understanding what the, learning, what the disease is and how to manage it day to day.
It's gonna involve not only injecting insulin and learning how to just even handle an insulin syringe.
(17:51):
But it's also going to involve the monitoring, which used to involve pricking the paw pads and the inner ear.
These days, with all the advancements there are for people, I imagine there are some that have also been adapted for pets.
But that's a disease that obviously there are skills to be developed.
(18:11):
Now if I can bring Purrci up for example, when you adopted Purrci, you understood that he was not able to express urine from his own bladder.
That instead, he needed a caregiver to physically express it for him.
Gail Pope (18:27):
And his stool too.
So that would be way down the list of the most difficult to manage chronic diseases, diagnoses.
Purrci, as I understand it, had an "argument" with a car when he was young and he suffered spinal damage.
Now here he is at 15+ and his gait is fine.
(18:50):
He can jump, he has to be careful of the jump that he can do but the framework for his body works fairly well.
He has the benefit of chiropractic care and laser therapy every couple of weeks, and that really helps him.
Karen Wylie (19:03):
Yeah.
Gail Pope (19:04):
And he does much better in the sunshine than in the winter.
But I was very lucky because of the work with BrightHaven that I had expressed several bladders in the past and being very aware and very used to how to do it.
However when I first adopted Purrci, all I can say is it's always different.
Every animal and human's bladder, sits differently.
(19:27):
Some have a little feeling, some don't.
And so each one that I've had to express, I've had to learn how to do it to make it work for that animal.
So there is that, and again, expressing stool.
Some people reel in horror at the idea and say, "They would would be a sticking point for me. I couldn't do it."
So then they would have to decide whether they would have someone come to their home to do it.
(19:53):
But it would have to be like a daily occurrence.
Really.
Ah, but that would be difficult, but it is a chronic condition.
Purrci produces stool perfectly fine.
He just hasn't got the the wherewithal to push it out of his body.
So he has to actually have a mechanical take it out or a finger
Karen Wylie (20:16):
And after 30 years and 700 animals,
those are experienced, skilled hands.
Gail Pope (20:25):
They've done it a few times.
Once you've had so much experience of different things, you realize that there is no one size fits all for any diagnosis.
'cause it's body, mind, and spirit.
So we still have to take the mind and the spirit part and honor those in the equation while we're, we tend to be certainly in the beginning, more focused on how to find the right balance for the body.
(20:52):
The condition, if you want to call it that, blends with daily life.
Some are very easily manageable and some are not so easily manageable.
And I guess it's highlighting kidney disease again, you already talked about that, but in the early stages it's, "Oh, I was really scared, but, oh, this is okay. This is fine and yeah, I can add some more water to his food and it's all working. We did the next blood test and okay, I've got this."
(21:23):
But then as the disease progresses, so does the needs and then maybe subQ fluid therapy is indicated and there comes again, a difficult decision led by generally the veterinarian or another practitioner about how to do it, how to find appropriate resources that can help you understand and teach you how to do it.
(21:49):
And there are a lot of people I know who say, "I can't do it.
I'm not doing it.
I could no more stick a needle in my cat than fly to the moon.
That's a stopping point for me."
Then that divides up into those who we could do it once a week and I'll employ a vet tech to come to the house and lots of people I know do that.
(22:10):
But then there are others who say, "Mother Nature didn't allow for this in the natural scheme of things and it feels totally abhorrent to me. I'm not doing it."
And that's where people do their best and they do it with love.
They add more water to the food, they encourage drinking and the wet foods and they do it their way, and that's okay too.
We all have to honor what is right for us and for the being that we love.
(22:35):
The partnership that is developing between us because it has to be.
If you have to give pills to a cat who has made his mind up that he is not having pills put down his throat.
Then again, the partnership has to meet and determine if we liquidize it in some way, we buy a product that tastes wonderful and you can't resist it.
(22:56):
We have to find a way to meet in the middle.
I'll take that pill if you put it in that nice soft gooey
and then it works,
Karen Wylie (23:04):
and then it works.
Gail Pope (23:05):
There are so many facets to finding the way forward and knowing that the lane may change along when you have an illness.
Karen Wylie (23:14):
Yeah.
As you take further steps the path may change and as you were saying, it's mind, body, spirit of both the pet parent
Gail Pope (23:23):
Yes.
Karen Wylie (23:23):
And the pet.
And finding that middle ground.
Callie's finding balance right now.
Yeah.
She's found a lovely balance here.
This is where I wear her sometimes and it's just how it is.
I was thinking about pilling and that's one of the first things I do with a chronic condition that I expect is gonna require a pill.
(23:45):
Either once a day now that may increase later or that I know will be coming down the road.
I try to create rituals with my babies.
So that, if I'm examining their mouth or I'm examining their ears to make sure that they're really lovely pink in color rather than, losing color or, and the gums are pink, or I'm checking for hydration in the skin.
(24:06):
If I'm gonna subject them to any daily ritual that perhaps is more than that but then petting them.
I always try to make sure there is some kind of a treat, some kind of a reward in there as preparation for down the road when it's, instead of one pill once a day, it's five pills twice a day.
And just I have them ready to expect that if they endure what I'm asking them to endure.
(24:29):
That it'll be okay.
I'll come up with something they enjoy.
Gail Pope (24:33):
We did that.
We did that at BrightHaven at the Sanctuary.
And again, that brings me back to the basic structure because once you have a plan and you do have a dose of this twice a day, a dose of that three times a day, again, it's making sure you've got your records writing it down, because we know, we tend to forget when we're worried.
(24:55):
"Oh, did I give him his pills yesterday?"
We created a chart for BrightHaven and whoever was responsible for giving meds that day would cross off when Suzy had her meds.
But what we went further with, because obviously we had more cats than we had other animals and cats were the most difficult, we gradually developed our daily mix, which was a mix of probiotics, enzymes, colostrum.
(25:19):
Particularly, one of the keys was we discovered early on that cats, in general not all, love colostrum.
And so each animal would have a list of what pills or whatever they had to take.
But then we always had our enzymes, probiotics, and colostrum mix in powder.
We used to combine them in a big jar so that everybody had their little plate and everyone's plate got a spoonful of this delightful mix.
(25:46):
Then we would use the powder from the pills or grind the pills or whatever for everybody.
And then the whole thing would be mixed up and you could dip your finger in it, offer it to nine out of 10 cats and they'd go "Oh!"
I've got a lovely picture somewhere of three little dogs.
Blanca, who was our vet tech, was standing in the clinic making mixes and the three dogs all sat in front of her like, We're gonna get ours soon."
(26:12):
It's a long way for me to agree with you that making it taste good that really is the sky's the limit.
Karen Wylie (26:19):
Yeah, absolutely.
And my go-to dog food for the cats and the reason why is there's less water in it.
I had tried baby food and I had tried various brands of cat food but when in trying to have control over a pill,
those would be too runny and I wouldn't have control over the pill.
(26:41):
And I do like pilling with my finger.
I've always found my animals are more receptive to my finger in their mouth than they are any of the official pillers to help us.
Gail Pope (26:54):
I had success with those.
Karen Wylie (26:56):
Yeah.
Gail Pope (26:56):
It just never worked for me at all.
Karen Wylie (26:57):
No never worked for me either.
And God knows, I think I invested in every product that came out.
But for a cat, the dog food, and I'm only talking, half a teaspoon of it, but because it doesn't have as much water in it, it's a stiffer consistency and I could position the pill or the powder, whatever needed and control it as I gave it.
(27:20):
And so that, for me, that's my go-to.
The colostrum in your special mixture sounds like it worked beautifully for all of your babies.
And for me, little bit of dog food for the cats allowed me to control placement of the pill right where it needed to go down instead of coming back up and me trying to do it again.
Gail Pope (27:37):
Yes.
Karen Wylie (27:37):
They can be so good at that.
Gail Pope (27:39):
That's good because now we're identifying the fact that there are lots of different ways.
Karen Wylie (27:44):
Absolutely.
Gail Pope (27:45):
To actually give medicine.
It was just, "It's a pill? Oh, am I gonna get a pill? Oh, can I have it?" It's that easy.
Particularly, oh my goodness, I've got my treat for the day.
Karen Wylie (27:55):
And oh, that's the thing.
You've try to, wanna give a vitamin to a dog and they've made it so tasty for them.
It's the highlight of their afternoon.
As we have gone round with our discussion here on chronic conditions that our pets might be diagnosed with.
Let's maybe summarize one thing that a pet parent can do when they receive these diagnoses of these various conditions.
(28:21):
'cause it can be all over the map from we're talking about diabetes that requires injections, heart conditions that require pills.
Although I guess heart, I shouldn't use the heart as a chronic because it can start out being, we can treat it as a chronic, but it can escalate more quickly than others.
But hypothyroidism, arthritis, there are just so many of them that start out as something we can do something about.
(28:47):
And I guess for me, that's what I would like to end on is that, there are so often so many different things that we can do that we can feel good about doing and have some peace of mind that we're doing the best we can with love as you always tell us.
So I think for me with the chronic conditions that's probably the most important piece for me.
Gail Pope (29:07):
There's another half to that and that's something that we talk about in everything we do.
Because when you are a caregiver and you've had a new diagnosis and you're focused on what you're going to do, focused on how you're gonna do it, focused on the next days, weeks, months, years, you've gotta take care of yourself as well.
(29:28):
You've gotta laugh, you've gotta smile.
It's contagious.
You've got to remember today is where we are right now.
I'm living in today.
I've got a diagnosis.
That's not really going to affect my life today, his life today, our lives today.
You know living in the moment and bringing yourself back down to earth and spending time just being, rather than the doing of,
(29:54):
"I gotta make a note of this, I'm gonna make a chart, or I got a list of where the meds are."
There are so many things that your brain wants to focus on.
So just stepping back out of that for a little me time.
I think that's another important note to end on because we do tend to stop caring for ourselves because we care so much about the other person.
(30:16):
The other being that, yeah, just focus on them and we forget about ourselves.
Karen Wylie (30:21):
I think that's a really critical point because especially with a chronic condition, it's gonna be a marathon and not a sprint.
You have to pace yourself a little differently and pace things for your pet as well.
Self-care is certainly part of that equation, or you're not gonna make it too far down the road together.
Gail Pope (30:41):
You'll be a nervous wreck.
Karen Wylie (30:42):
Yeah, a nervous wreck.
And with that, let's call a close to this conversation today.
When we are back with you again next week, we will take a look at some of the difficult to manage conditions and how that affects our lives as caregivers and in all aspects, as Gail is saying.
The self-care component of what we need to do for ourselves as well as what we do for our pets.
(31:07):
So we thank you for being with us today, and we will see you next time.
Bye-bye.
Gail Pope (31:12):
Absolutely.
Bye-bye everybody.
Thank you for joining us on Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
We hope today's episode has offered you support and insight as you care for your aging or ill pets.
Remember, it's not just about the end.
It's about living well at every stage of life.
To continue your journey with us, explore more resources at BrightHaven Caregiver Academy's website.
(31:39):
BrightPathforPets.com, where you'll find guides, assessments, and a caring community of pet parents like you.
Until next time, may you and your pets find comfort, connection, and peace in every moment.
Take care.
Welcome to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents, the podcast by BrightHaven Caregiver Academy.
I'm Gail Pope and I'm Karen Wylie.
And together we're here to support you in navigating life with your aging or ill pets.
We know how deeply you care for your beloved companions, and we're here to offer guidance, understanding, and resources for this meaningful journey.
(00:25):
Each episode we'll explore topics that address the daily challenges, emotional realities, and choices you face as a pet parent helping you and your pets find peace, comfort, and joy.
Whether it's making sense of a new diagnosis, adjusting to changing needs, or simply seeking a place to feel understood, you're not alone.
(00:47):
Thank you for being here with us.
Karen Wylie (00:51):
Hello and welcome to Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
I'm Karen Wylie here, as usual, with Gail Pope.
And in our last conversation we were taking a look at life-changing diagnoses for you and your pet.
And we tend to view them in three categories of chronic diagnoses, difficult to manage, diagnoses, and certainly terminal diagnoses because
(01:24):
illnesses and conditions that fall into each one of those have different impacts on each of us as a caregiver and on our pets.
And so today we're gonna be focusing on chronic diagnoses.
Followed next week and the week after with difficult to manage and terminal conditions.
And Gail, maybe starting out, we should talk about some of the types of conditions and illnesses, diseases that fall in the category of chronic diagnoses.
(01:54):
What Which ones would you pull out?
Gail Pope (01:57):
I think actually before that, something that actually just occurred to me and probably a lot because of my advanced age is that I think the term chronic illness is actually new still to some people in some cultures particularly because I grew up and into an adult world where there wasn't an internet.
(02:22):
We couldn't ask Google, "what's this and how do I manage it?"
We didn't have all that technology.
I think for a pet parent when there was something out of balance with their animal, their lifeline was their veterinarian, and the veterinarian didn't talk, or he may have said, "There's something wrong with the kidneys and this isn't an acute thing. It's more chronic." So the words may have been used, but I don't think I ever really thought about something that was a chronic condition rather than the different things that I had experienced.
(02:57):
Gradually, as BrightHaven started to grow, I had experience with all these things and I worked for a vet, so I started to become more familiar with the technology, but I don't necessarily think people are aware of how many differences there are and the kind of illness and how you deal with it.
But yes, that wasn't really answering your question, but without doubt, kidney disease.
Karen Wylie (03:20):
Maybe the first question then is
what is a chronic condition?
Rather than giving it a name of typical diseases but what is a chronic condition?
I guess where I would start would be that it is a condition that is gonna last months or years.
That is probably gonna require ongoing care at some level and that investment of time and energy might increase over time.
(03:49):
The condition may not just stay the way it is when the diagnosis first takes place, but it could get more serious, it could have different ramifications.
And that usually I think when we're focusing on a chronic condition, we're not thinking of a cure for it.
We're thinking of stabilizing it, maintaining it.
(04:10):
If something's labeled something chronic that we're not expecting it to necessarily go away completely, but that we can, we wanna figure out how to manage it better.
Or not.
Gail Pope (04:23):
Yeah.
You're making me think about that because that's a really good point.
I hadn't thought because over the years, I guess I've learned to focus on healing for the highest good and that kind of fits with the chronic word.
It is just dealing with something and offering healing for its for the highest good of the being.
(04:45):
So I think it's interesting to look at the actual word chronic as we're doing.
I've never done that before.
Stops me in my tracks a little bit.
Karen Wylie (04:57):
That was the thing is, over our last 18 months as we've been developing BCA and our frameworks and our approach to everything.
We do know that our lives are so dramatically affected by what goes on with our pets.
We love them.
They're members of our family, and we're responsible for them.
And so when we get any kind of diagnosis, it's gonna change our life in some way.
(05:21):
We're gonna have to monitor differently.
We may have to feed differently.
There may be a pill involved, or there's gonna be something different that we have to do.
And whether it's, again, the chronic, the difficult to manage or the terminal, and there's maybe in another year or two we'll be slicing those up in 27 different ways.
(05:42):
But right now those are the kind of the three buckets we've got.
To try to identify what a caregiver, a pet parent
can do in approaching these kind of diagnoses and how it affects them?
I think certainly one of the things is when I get, when I, over the years, when I'd get a diagnosis of stage one kidney disease
Gail Pope (06:04):
Yes.
Karen Wylie (06:05):
It's good to know about because you can make sure their hydration is really good and maybe you up the wet food, minimize the dry food, consider fresh food.
You can start looking at different things.
Maybe you need to give a pill, but you don't emotionally begin panicking because you think your animal is dying.
(06:27):
Whereas I think with the other diagnoses, each of us because we love them so much,
that's when the fear creeps in and can block us from learning what we can do differently to support them.
You can get a diagnosis, on a difficult to manage diagnosis and certainly diagnosis and certainly the terminal and you can spend your whole weekend on Google thinking you're gonna get a DVM degree in a weekend.
(06:52):
You know, if you're gonna figure it out how to save your baby.
I don't think with a chronic disease that, that's, I don't go there with those diagnoses.
Okay, I’ll shush.
Gail Pope (07:03):
I still think though that the word cure, the word fear, and the word death still come in for a lot of people because if they don't know the nature of that illness, they're told he has issues with his kidneys
Karen Wylie (07:19):
Hypothyroid
Gail Pope (07:20):
Yeah, well the caregiver really does have to step back to take time to take in, to absorb the fact that it's manageable.
But then they come into, "how am I gonna cure it?"
So they have to learn that little piece and understand that they may or may not but technically there isn't really any cure for life other than death at the very bottom of the chart.
(07:46):
But I think knowing it's restoring hope and I guess it all comes down to the to the parent educating themselves about "What it is?" and then taking the next baby step into
"What can I do?"
"What do I need to change?"
"How do I need to change it?"
talking about medicine,
"What type of medicine will it be?"
(08:06):
"Holistic medicine, conventional, or should it be a mix of both?" And other practitioners, "Would acupuncture help?"
So I think that period of time is the next steps is gonna be a huge one.
Once they've got over the
"Ugh, he's got diabetes"
for instance, or whatever it is that, there's that huge learning period that comes about, "what it is?" And "what that means?" And at the bottom of that little thought is "How long can he live with it?"
(08:34):
So you've still got that little fear thing in there.
But once you start to educate yourself more, then you start to step into a more comfortable place, realizing,
"Whew, I've talked myself off the ledge.
I've learned.
I know there's a lot I can do.
I need to focus on what I can do."
And so you put yourself off that ledge and straight into "Yes" and maybe you want to join a group of other people that are dealing with the same thing.
(08:58):
A forum that allows you to discuss something
Karen Wylie (09:01):
Do you mean like a hub, like a caregiver's hub?
Gail Pope (09:03):
You mean a BrightHaven Caregiver's Hub.
Oh, that's good.
But yes, talking to other people who have experience when you don't have it.
Karen Wylie (09:13):
Right.
Gail Pope (09:14):
It underscores anything that your vet has told you that might be, "Oh God, could I do that?" You still have to dot your I's and T's and when six or seven people come along and say, "Oh yes, I remember that my cat Fluffy was diagnosed and somebody suggested I did whatever it was, and oh my goodness, it really helped."
(09:36):
Whether it be her stool or whatever it was.
But there's another little thing that you can add into your comfort care kit as it were about things to remember that might help.
Karen Wylie (09:47):
Once they understand the "What it is?"
And I guess understanding why it occurred so that they can release some, any guilt they might have that something they did or didn't do has caused the issue.
'cause I think that's something we all, we all sift through that, and are worried that there was something we did or something we should have done instead that may have had an effect.
(10:11):
You bringing up the veterinary role a little bit.
What is the veterinary role in with a chronic condition?
And let me ask 'cause I'll pull in Purrci and Ollie and Andy here.
Their diagnoses may, or their conditions may be a little bit of chronic, but also difficult to manage.
Gail Pope (10:31):
Oh, gosh, yes.
Karen Wylie (10:32):
With what's going on with them.
So I'll leave that to you, but to explain as much as you want or don't, but what is the role of a veterinarian when there is a chronic condition?
How do you see that role or partnership taking place?
Gail Pope (10:45):
Exactly that.
That's where my mind is going with the situation, because it's always different.
Karen Wylie (10:50):
Yeah.
Gail Pope (10:50):
I think from the vet side, it's ensuring that he or she can impart as much knowledge as the caregiver in front of them— needs and wishes.
And maybe it isn't all in one go.
Maybe it's an overview and an email follow up that will give you a little more information or a link to a particular paper or something that might actually help.
(11:16):
Different people want to know more or less.
I certainly have found that some people are like,
"I don't want all the information.
I just need this bit.
I just need to know what it is and what to expect.
And what I have to do, what pills do I need?" Some people just don't want the big picture.
It's all too much.
I think it would've been for me in the early days
(11:37):
"What does this mean?"
"How's it going to change my life?"
And "Can I cope?"
If someone has a full-time job and they have certain hours that they're at home each day, instantly the thought is,
"How am I gonna manage this?"
"Do I have to be there more often?"
"What do I do?"
So I think that, again, it's multifaceted, isn't it?
Karen Wylie (11:55):
It really is!
Each type of diagnosis is gonna, and as you're saying, it really depends on the individual and how much information they want or don't want.
Gail Pope (12:05):
And it's again, the same old problem that we come up with for veterinarians which makes it also a problem for their clients is time.
And I think if a veterinarian has a wonderful team helping him, like I'm so happy that mine does, if there are questions that come afterwards, which pretty much is bound to happen with a diagnosis.
(12:30):
It wasn't expected the vets explained as much or as little as is possible in that meeting, but then the caregiver goes home, they may be absolutely fine.
It may be, "Yes, I know all about that and I don't need to know more now", but I would say perhaps a majority of us scribble down, "Oh, I need to ask about that.
Oh, I wonder, oh, let me go to Google and check that.
(12:52):
But I wonder what the dose would be?"
There are so many little things that come up that I think having communication with maybe the back office to be able to ask questions.
I know if I send a note to the office email from my vet sometimes I'll get a very quick answer and other times I'll get an answer that says, "I'll run that by the doctor and get back to you." So I think having that feeling for the client that they're not alone.
Karen Wylie (13:22):
Yeah.
A little bit more of that safety net of knowing there is a place you can go to ask questions and that you will get answers.
And that can be tough especially when your appointment is over with and you're thinking of your question as you're driving home or as you're sleeping that first night.
Afterwards, it's "I should have asked, X, Y, Z."
Gail Pope (13:44):
Yeah.
Karen Wylie (13:45):
And you do email or you call and then you have to make sure that you know someone not only understands your question and that's where email really helps.
But then, how quickly are you gonna get an answer, which is important too as part of coping.
I think I was thinking about some of the— I'll control my executive producer here this way.
Gail Pope (14:07):
I think she has something to say.
Karen Wylie (14:09):
Callie, she is a little tortie Calico.
She's has been opinionated.
I always say they're opinionated.
She always has something to say.
And she is 12 with no conditions that we know of.
That's where I was gonna go actually is I think part of how we all cope with a chronic diagnosis, a diagnosis or not is whether we're expecting it or not.
(14:33):
You know, Sometimes you see something happening with your pet that you notice is different.
Whether they're drinking more water or less water.
They're more active and restless, or they're sleeping more and they're less active.
Those are extremes but you start to notice something different and you initiate the vet visit to try to find out what might be going on.
(14:59):
So in that case, you're a little more prepared for something perhaps being identified to be dealt with.
Gail Pope (15:06):
And it's a relief, I imagine at that stage because it's,
Karen Wylie (15:09):
Yeah, as long as it's in that chronic category where it's "Oh, there's something we can do about this. Okay, I can cope really better with that."
But sometimes the diagnoses come out of the regular annual exam and you can get so used to doing that on an annual basis.
And everything's always fine.
(15:30):
You just, you're going through a ritual.
Whether it's vaccinations, if you're with a conventional vet one or three year rabies shots is required by law in wherever you live.
It's like you get into a routine of doing certain things and that doesn't mean that when they do some kind of basic lab work and you get feedback that there's actually something identifiably wrong, that something that needs to be dealt with.
(15:56):
That can be a big shock to you.
The rug can be pulled out from under you even with a chronic condition, I think.
Gail Pope (16:03):
Definitely.
I'm just thinking that a lot of the consultation work I do, really, people have gone to the vet with no knowledge of anything being wrong and they're in shock.
And they're doing one of the things that I think that is really important and it really stems from talking to your veterinarian as well is reaching out for help, for support as much as help.
(16:27):
Talk to your friends, talk to your family.
Just feel you've got loving support around you while you're gathering your way forward together.
In your mind,
"How do I cope? What am I gonna do?"
Because I think when we all have a problem of any kind, once we actually have a plan, it's
"Yeah, I got this. I can do it."
But until then, you do need support.
(16:49):
It's like you need some other brains to come along and just help you stay calm and give you ideas and let's put it together.
Karen Wylie (16:58):
And like you were saying earlier, sometimes that's gonna come from people who have more experience in that particular
Gail Pope (17:05):
Yes.
Karen Wylie (17:06):
Mission and they can be sharing what worked or what didn't and their various advice.
Sometimes it's information that's printed or on screen or provided by your vet as you try to do something with that.
Generally, if a chronic condition is identified, there's usually something you can do about it.
(17:27):
I was thinking about how some of the chronic conditions require new skills.
Diabetes for example, in terms of understanding what the, learning, what the disease is and how to manage it day to day.
It's gonna involve not only injecting insulin and learning how to just even handle an insulin syringe.
(17:51):
But it's also going to involve the monitoring, which used to involve pricking the paw pads and the inner ear.
These days, with all the advancements there are for people, I imagine there are some that have also been adapted for pets.
But that's a disease that obviously there are skills to be developed.
(18:11):
Now if I can bring Purrci up for example, when you adopted Purrci, you understood that he was not able to express urine from his own bladder.
That instead, he needed a caregiver to physically express it for him.
Gail Pope (18:27):
And his stool too.
So that would be way down the list of the most difficult to manage chronic diseases, diagnoses.
Purrci, as I understand it, had an "argument" with a car when he was young and he suffered spinal damage.
Now here he is at 15+ and his gait is fine.
(18:50):
He can jump, he has to be careful of the jump that he can do but the framework for his body works fairly well.
He has the benefit of chiropractic care and laser therapy every couple of weeks, and that really helps him.
Karen Wylie (19:03):
Yeah.
Gail Pope (19:04):
And he does much better in the sunshine than in the winter.
But I was very lucky because of the work with BrightHaven that I had expressed several bladders in the past and being very aware and very used to how to do it.
However when I first adopted Purrci, all I can say is it's always different.
Every animal and human's bladder, sits differently.
(19:27):
Some have a little feeling, some don't.
And so each one that I've had to express, I've had to learn how to do it to make it work for that animal.
So there is that, and again, expressing stool.
Some people reel in horror at the idea and say, "They would would be a sticking point for me. I couldn't do it."
So then they would have to decide whether they would have someone come to their home to do it.
(19:53):
But it would have to be like a daily occurrence.
Really.
Ah, but that would be difficult, but it is a chronic condition.
Purrci produces stool perfectly fine.
He just hasn't got the the wherewithal to push it out of his body.
So he has to actually have a mechanical take it out or a finger
Karen Wylie (20:16):
And after 30 years and 700 animals,
those are experienced, skilled hands.
Gail Pope (20:25):
They've done it a few times.
Once you've had so much experience of different things, you realize that there is no one size fits all for any diagnosis.
'cause it's body, mind, and spirit.
So we still have to take the mind and the spirit part and honor those in the equation while we're, we tend to be certainly in the beginning, more focused on how to find the right balance for the body.
(20:52):
The condition, if you want to call it that, blends with daily life.
Some are very easily manageable and some are not so easily manageable.
And I guess it's highlighting kidney disease again, you already talked about that, but in the early stages it's, "Oh, I was really scared, but, oh, this is okay. This is fine and yeah, I can add some more water to his food and it's all working. We did the next blood test and okay, I've got this."
(21:23):
But then as the disease progresses, so does the needs and then maybe subQ fluid therapy is indicated and there comes again, a difficult decision led by generally the veterinarian or another practitioner about how to do it, how to find appropriate resources that can help you understand and teach you how to do it.
(21:49):
And there are a lot of people I know who say, "I can't do it.
I'm not doing it.
I could no more stick a needle in my cat than fly to the moon.
That's a stopping point for me."
Then that divides up into those who we could do it once a week and I'll employ a vet tech to come to the house and lots of people I know do that.
(22:10):
But then there are others who say, "Mother Nature didn't allow for this in the natural scheme of things and it feels totally abhorrent to me. I'm not doing it."
And that's where people do their best and they do it with love.
They add more water to the food, they encourage drinking and the wet foods and they do it their way, and that's okay too.
We all have to honor what is right for us and for the being that we love.
(22:35):
The partnership that is developing between us because it has to be.
If you have to give pills to a cat who has made his mind up that he is not having pills put down his throat.
Then again, the partnership has to meet and determine if we liquidize it in some way, we buy a product that tastes wonderful and you can't resist it.
(22:56):
We have to find a way to meet in the middle.
I'll take that pill if you put it in that nice soft gooey
and then it works,
Karen Wylie (23:04):
and then it works.
Gail Pope (23:05):
There are so many facets to finding the way forward and knowing that the lane may change along when you have an illness.
Karen Wylie (23:14):
Yeah.
As you take further steps the path may change and as you were saying, it's mind, body, spirit of both the pet parent
Gail Pope (23:23):
Yes.
Karen Wylie (23:23):
And the pet.
And finding that middle ground.
Callie's finding balance right now.
Yeah.
She's found a lovely balance here.
This is where I wear her sometimes and it's just how it is.
I was thinking about pilling and that's one of the first things I do with a chronic condition that I expect is gonna require a pill.
(23:45):
Either once a day now that may increase later or that I know will be coming down the road.
I try to create rituals with my babies.
So that, if I'm examining their mouth or I'm examining their ears to make sure that they're really lovely pink in color rather than, losing color or, and the gums are pink, or I'm checking for hydration in the skin.
(24:06):
If I'm gonna subject them to any daily ritual that perhaps is more than that but then petting them.
I always try to make sure there is some kind of a treat, some kind of a reward in there as preparation for down the road when it's, instead of one pill once a day, it's five pills twice a day.
And just I have them ready to expect that if they endure what I'm asking them to endure.
(24:29):
That it'll be okay.
I'll come up with something they enjoy.
Gail Pope (24:33):
We did that.
We did that at BrightHaven at the Sanctuary.
And again, that brings me back to the basic structure because once you have a plan and you do have a dose of this twice a day, a dose of that three times a day, again, it's making sure you've got your records writing it down, because we know, we tend to forget when we're worried.
(24:55):
"Oh, did I give him his pills yesterday?"
We created a chart for BrightHaven and whoever was responsible for giving meds that day would cross off when Suzy had her meds.
But what we went further with, because obviously we had more cats than we had other animals and cats were the most difficult, we gradually developed our daily mix, which was a mix of probiotics, enzymes, colostrum.
(25:19):
Particularly, one of the keys was we discovered early on that cats, in general not all, love colostrum.
And so each animal would have a list of what pills or whatever they had to take.
But then we always had our enzymes, probiotics, and colostrum mix in powder.
We used to combine them in a big jar so that everybody had their little plate and everyone's plate got a spoonful of this delightful mix.
(25:46):
Then we would use the powder from the pills or grind the pills or whatever for everybody.
And then the whole thing would be mixed up and you could dip your finger in it, offer it to nine out of 10 cats and they'd go "Oh!"
I've got a lovely picture somewhere of three little dogs.
Blanca, who was our vet tech, was standing in the clinic making mixes and the three dogs all sat in front of her like, We're gonna get ours soon."
(26:12):
It's a long way for me to agree with you that making it taste good that really is the sky's the limit.
Karen Wylie (26:19):
Yeah, absolutely.
And my go-to dog food for the cats and the reason why is there's less water in it.
I had tried baby food and I had tried various brands of cat food but when in trying to have control over a pill,
those would be too runny and I wouldn't have control over the pill.
(26:41):
And I do like pilling with my finger.
I've always found my animals are more receptive to my finger in their mouth than they are any of the official pillers to help us.
Gail Pope (26:54):
I had success with those.
Karen Wylie (26:56):
Yeah.
Gail Pope (26:56):
It just never worked for me at all.
Karen Wylie (26:57):
No never worked for me either.
And God knows, I think I invested in every product that came out.
But for a cat, the dog food, and I'm only talking, half a teaspoon of it, but because it doesn't have as much water in it, it's a stiffer consistency and I could position the pill or the powder, whatever needed and control it as I gave it.
(27:20):
And so that, for me, that's my go-to.
The colostrum in your special mixture sounds like it worked beautifully for all of your babies.
And for me, little bit of dog food for the cats allowed me to control placement of the pill right where it needed to go down instead of coming back up and me trying to do it again.
Gail Pope (27:37):
Yes.
Karen Wylie (27:37):
They can be so good at that.
Gail Pope (27:39):
That's good because now we're identifying the fact that there are lots of different ways.
Karen Wylie (27:44):
Absolutely.
Gail Pope (27:45):
To actually give medicine.
It was just, "It's a pill? Oh, am I gonna get a pill? Oh, can I have it?" It's that easy.
Particularly, oh my goodness, I've got my treat for the day.
Karen Wylie (27:55):
And oh, that's the thing.
You've try to, wanna give a vitamin to a dog and they've made it so tasty for them.
It's the highlight of their afternoon.
As we have gone round with our discussion here on chronic conditions that our pets might be diagnosed with.
Let's maybe summarize one thing that a pet parent can do when they receive these diagnoses of these various conditions.
(28:21):
'cause it can be all over the map from we're talking about diabetes that requires injections, heart conditions that require pills.
Although I guess heart, I shouldn't use the heart as a chronic because it can start out being, we can treat it as a chronic, but it can escalate more quickly than others.
But hypothyroidism, arthritis, there are just so many of them that start out as something we can do something about.
(28:47):
And I guess for me, that's what I would like to end on is that, there are so often so many different things that we can do that we can feel good about doing and have some peace of mind that we're doing the best we can with love as you always tell us.
So I think for me with the chronic conditions that's probably the most important piece for me.
Gail Pope (29:07):
There's another half to that and that's something that we talk about in everything we do.
Because when you are a caregiver and you've had a new diagnosis and you're focused on what you're going to do, focused on how you're gonna do it, focused on the next days, weeks, months, years, you've gotta take care of yourself as well.
(29:28):
You've gotta laugh, you've gotta smile.
It's contagious.
You've got to remember today is where we are right now.
I'm living in today.
I've got a diagnosis.
That's not really going to affect my life today, his life today, our lives today.
You know living in the moment and bringing yourself back down to earth and spending time just being, rather than the doing of,
(29:54):
"I gotta make a note of this, I'm gonna make a chart, or I got a list of where the meds are."
There are so many things that your brain wants to focus on.
So just stepping back out of that for a little me time.
I think that's another important note to end on because we do tend to stop caring for ourselves because we care so much about the other person.
(30:16):
The other being that, yeah, just focus on them and we forget about ourselves.
Karen Wylie (30:21):
I think that's a really critical point because especially with a chronic condition, it's gonna be a marathon and not a sprint.
You have to pace yourself a little differently and pace things for your pet as well.
Self-care is certainly part of that equation, or you're not gonna make it too far down the road together.
Gail Pope (30:41):
You'll be a nervous wreck.
Karen Wylie (30:42):
Yeah, a nervous wreck.
And with that, let's call a close to this conversation today.
When we are back with you again next week, we will take a look at some of the difficult to manage conditions and how that affects our lives as caregivers and in all aspects, as Gail is saying.
The self-care component of what we need to do for ourselves as well as what we do for our pets.
(31:07):
So we thank you for being with us today, and we will see you next time.
Bye-bye.
Gail Pope (31:12):
Absolutely.
Bye-bye everybody.
Thank you for joining us on Peace of Mind for Pet Parents.
We hope today's episode has offered you support and insight as you care for your aging or ill pets.
Remember, it's not just about the end.
It's about living well at every stage of life.
To continue your journey with us, explore more resources at BrightHaven Caregiver Academy's website.
(31:39):
BrightPathforPets.com, where you'll find guides, assessments, and a caring community of pet parents like you.
Until next time, may you and your pets find comfort, connection, and peace in every moment.
Take care.
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