Breaking the Cycle: How Family Addiction Recovery Really Happens

Welcome to another powerful episode of the Recovering Out Loud podcast!In this raw, unfiltered conversation, we dive deep into what it really takes to break the cycle of addiction—especially when it runs in the family.

Candice opens up about her journey from active addiction to recovery, the pain of watching her daughter struggle, and how both found freedom in their own time.

We explore tough questions like:

• ​What’s the line between enabling and supporting a loved one?
• ​How do you deal with shame that lingers even after you get sober?
• ​Why does recovery sometimes feel harder than addiction?
• ​The impact of trauma, spirituality, and finding real community in sobriety.

Whether you’re struggling, supporting someone who is, or just want an honest look at recovery—this episode is for you.Subscribe, share, and leave a comment if this resonated!

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
Hi there, welcome back or welcome to Recovering Out Loud
Podcast, the show where we get real about mental health and
addiction. I'm so glad you're here.
If you or someone you love is struggling with drugs or
alcohol, please reach out for help.
Send me a message on all social media platforms at Recovering
Out Loud Pod or by e-mail at [e-mail].

(00:26):
You are no longer alone. Because I don't know about you,
but I was a lunatic. Present.

(00:48):
I always like tell people I was like a dumpster fire on a train,
like just barreling through everything.
So yeah, no. But it was it was nice to have
that conversation because her, her story is very much connected
to mine. Right when I got clean and
sober, she decided to go out. So yeah, so that had a huge
effect on. To go out like and relapse.

(01:10):
Well, she, she was, yeah, she was about 17, I want to say.
And she, she started hitting thedrugs when I decided to get off
of them. And so, you know, the life that
I lived now became her life. So that was really hard.
I had to learn how to lovingly detach.
And a lot of things happened very quickly.
Like she got into a really bad car accident and I, I was able

(01:30):
to show up for her, which is something I wouldn't have been
able to do before. And then a friend of hers
actually went into a drug, drug induced seizure when I was three
months clean and sober in my basement.
Yeah. So I got woken up to that and I
sent my daughter to rehab. She lasted 4 days and was like,
I want nothing to do with this. So she actually, we were in the
car the other day and she's like, mom, I have to show you

(01:50):
something. And I was like, what?
And she pulls up her I am sober app and it's two years free of
coping. Yeah.
And she was like, I totally forgot and missed it.
And I was like, I'm so. Yeah, no, you can.
Sorry, I'm so fucking proud of you because I only have like 4
months ahead of her. Wow.
Yeah. So it was like a really like
beautiful moment where like, youknow, I got to see what I was

(02:11):
like in a very brief period of time in my daughter and like the
damage that that caused my family.
So it was like a big wake up call to I'm not in control of
anybody's healing. I did the damage.
It's my responsibility to take that back and to to show them
that I'm not going to live that way anymore.
And I mean, you'd be remiss if you add that your recovery
definitely played a part in that, right?

(02:32):
Like you showing up every day. I'm picturing a world where, and
I'm sure this exists out there where you have mom, dad in
active addiction, children in active addiction.
It's like just you're fueling each other, enabling all over
the place, right? So what was that like watching
her and like, how'd you get through that?
It was really traumatizing to behonest.
I, I think at first I was very selfish in the fact like how

(02:54):
dare you, you know, here I am trying to better my life and now
I have to watch you do this. And at first, like I had that
very selfish, self-centered moment where I was like, why are
you doing this to me? And then very quickly I got
humbled and I was shown like, she's not doing it to you.
She's suffering from her own pain.
Like for me, when I was an active addiction, what I
realized was I didn't want to. I couldn't see anything past my

(03:16):
pain. I couldn't, you know, I loved my
kids. I wanted to be there for them.
There were all these things I wanted to be, but I couldn't
because I was consumed by my pain.
And that's exactly what happenedto her.
So I was able to kind of switch my perspective on that and
understand that there is nothingI could do to save her.
I have to allow her the space tohave her experience, but I'm
also in a position when she's ready, she knows where to go and

(03:38):
I can be there to support her. And that's exactly what
happened. So it was really hard to watch,
but I'm all I got goosebumps. But I'm also really grateful
that I was able to be there whenshe was ready.
Ready. Yeah.
And that's the key is like they always say in Helena.
And it's like, I didn't 'cause it, I didn't.

(03:58):
I can't control it. I didn't 'cause it and I can't
cure it, right. So it's like I get parents all I
talk to parents all the time in addiction because of my job.
And they're like, what do I do? I don't know what to do.
Like there's really there's no answer.
There's nothing you can't can do, right.
There's no playbook, there's no answer, there's no template to
this. That's another reason why I
really wanted to get start this podcast is because, you know,

(04:20):
I've had parents reach out to meand be like, thanks, like, you
know that that helps me, you know, and it's like, what do I
do? Well, you, you said it exactly.
It's like I can be there when they're ready, you know?
And so let me ask you this, whatdoes, you've probably learned a
lot from that experience, right?But what does enabling versus
support look like? Oh, such a fine line, right?

(04:41):
Because like when somebody, I see this even as a like as a
sponsor, as somebody in recovery.
So to, to broaden this a little bit, when I first came in and I
got to a point where I was able to share my experience with
others, I was like, I'm going tosave the world.
That that was my thought process.

(05:03):
What I came to realize quickly after that is I'm not able to
save anybody. The only thing I have is my
story and that I'm able to share, you know, I'm able to
give that support. So I think the enabling comes in
when we're constantly trying to swoop in save.
Like if what I'm doing is because I don't want you to

(05:24):
hurt, then I'm enabling you, right?
Like if everything that I'm doing is fueled by my need to
feel OK with what you're doing, then yeah, I'm enabling you.
But I think what happened with me was I wanted to do that at
1st and then I had to real. And I realized very quickly from
my own recovery, even though it was very little at the time,

(05:45):
there was absolutely nothing I was going to say or do that was
going to make anything any better.
She had to have that experience on her own.
What I will say is there were many messages where that that
were just I'm thinking of you, Ilove you and most of them are
not responded to. And that was OK because I
understood she needed to take that time on her own.
But when she was ready, I was there.

(06:06):
And, you know, keeping your feelings and emotions out of it
is huge. And that's a really hard thing
to do, especially coming from someone super emotional like
myself. You know, you want to save, but
the reality is, like, sometimes people have to fall on their
own. Yeah, that's what I had to do.
Yeah. Same.
My parents, you know, helped me so much.

(06:27):
They enabled me a lot. But then, yeah, they they learn
from their mistakes and doing that and giving me money
putting. A lot of people don't realize
too, that enabling takes all sort of forms.
Like this is going to sound veryharsh, but I was talking to a
guy, a dad on the phone today and I mentioned that like even
just providing shelter is enabling.
Because when my parents let me live in the house, I was a, you

(06:51):
know, coming and going as I pleased and using my drugs as I
pleased, right, and hiding them.And I still remember to this
day, like I would put, you know,my, my coke in my waistband and
I would try and sneak in the house.
And the one night my dad caught me, I'll, I'll never forget it.
It, it was like that was the first time I really cried out
for help when I was 2310 years ago.
And I remember he had been Long story short, he had been tipped

(07:14):
off by my friend that I was really bad, you know, and I was
using more than everyone else and I couldn't stop.
And he had told my, my mom that I was coming home just after
grabbing and I was drunk and whatever, I'm walking up the
stairs. I'm thinking that I'm, you know,
slick pulling it, you know, no one knows.
And he comes in the room, breaksdown the bathroom door and finds
it, flushes it down the toilet like right in front of me.
And I, I get goosebumps just thinking about that because I'll

(07:36):
never forget that was the first time when I actually told the
truth. And I yelled out and cried, like
literally bawled my eyes out. And I said, I need that, I need
that. Don't you understand?
I need that. And my, my sister, it was the
first time she ever heard like how bad it was.
And so that was a pivotal momentfor me, right?
What? What do you think kept you in

(07:57):
active addiction for so long? I think it was pain.
Like honestly, I I grew up, I went through a lot of trauma and
growing up I was never really taught what healthy love was.
I think that's how I was constantly looking for like
this, anything to fill this voidthat I had within me and I

(08:21):
didn't want to feel any of the pain.
I absolutely did not. So I kind of created like this
shield of whoever I needed to beat the time.
And when I the first time I tried drugs or like or any
substance, to be honest, it was like I finally felt comfortable.
It was like nothing bothered me anymore.
I, I had no, there was no thought process on like, oh,

(08:43):
this hurts or that hurts. It was just, yeah, this is it.
I can do this, you know, perfect.
I'm good. But I wish, you know, at the
time somebody would have said, yeah, it feels good now, but
like, it's going to take everything from you because it
almost did. And I, I, but I'm also very
grateful for that because if I, if I wasn't in the state I was

(09:04):
in this time when I hit this bottom, and it's funny because
this bottom, like, nothing crazyhappened.
It wasn't like they found me on the side of the road and I woke
up in the hospital with all my clothes cut off 'cause that
happened, you know, like it wasn't, you know, there was
nothing. It was a higher.
Bottom line, you're. Used to, yeah, it was nothing
traumatic. All my kids were living at home,
although they shouldn't have been 'cause it was basically a

(09:24):
trap house. But I was dead inside, like dead
inside. And I just the, the morning I
decided that that was enough, like my moment of desperation, I
was contemplating taking my lifein the house where my, all of my
children were at home. And I didn't even put two and
two together until like 6 monthsago.
And I was like, whoa, that's insane.

(09:45):
Like I didn't even think about like what would happen if, if
and when one of them found me. Like that's how much pain I was
in. And I just didn't want to feel
it. And then I, you know, crawled
back into recovery and here we are.
So. What was that?
What did that look like? Did you make a phone call?
Did you reach? Out yeah.
So I I used a 12 step program and I had tried it twice before,

(10:09):
once like many years ago. I just, it wasn't for me at the
time. And then the last time was a few
years ago. I ended up with some charges and
I was like, well, this is probably what everyone wants me
to do. So I tried it and I actually got
a sponsor that time. It lasted a whole 37 days.
And you know that like mental blank spot they talk about

(10:32):
something happened with my kids.I got into a fight at school and
I was like, let's go for lunch. And now I'm thrown back.
So it's like it was like I didn't even think about it.
It just I went back out. I wasn't doing it for me though.
I wasn't doing it because I wanted to get better.
I was doing it to appease everybody.
You're talking about the the milk and the whiskey thing?
Pretty much, yeah. So you.
So, yeah, for people that don't know, there's a passage in a

(10:53):
recovery literature where the they talk about a guy relapsing
and he was clean and sober, hadn't had the thought in a
while about using or drinking. And he shows up to a bar and
he's having milk and all of a sudden a thought comes into his
mind. It's funny.
It's a funny story because a lotof people, probably a lot of
people can't relate to that exact situation.

(11:15):
But I've had many situations where it's like, boop, this is a
good idea, let's do it. And for me, it was like, so to
finish the story where he decides that his stomach is
bothering him and and a whiskey would go good with the milk.
And that's how he relapsed just like that, right?
He didn't tell anybody about it.He didn't call anyone.
In my experience, it was, I thought I had ADHD too.

(11:36):
We were talking about this before.
And I was like, I can't focus that good at work.
And it wasn't like a quick it was, it happened over time,
slowly, but I kept having these thoughts of like, I know a guy
that, and it usually started with knowing someone, being on
medication that it worked great for them, right?
And I'm like everyone else, you know, it's gonna work for me,
right? And I was like, I gotta fix my

(11:58):
ADHD, right? And then that's how I relapsed.
I had, you know, gotten back on the Adderall, the Vyvanse, and
I'm getting it from a doctor andthen I'm buying it on the
Internet, fake stuff, whatever. And I'm using it to party now
and all these things. But it all started with that
moment where even though I can'treally relate exactly to the
whiskey and milk thing, I'm like, why would anyone fucking
do that, right? But I'm like, I get it.

(12:18):
I told that's the that's addiction.
It's insidious, right? Cunning, baffling, powerful and
patient. It's just waiting for that
moment. And if what I found today is
there's that gap between thinking about doing something
and doing something that as you stay sober longer, in my
experience, it gets greater and greater and greater where it's
like I pause before I make rational, irrational decisions

(12:40):
based on emotion. And so today, if, when that
thought comes, because they do still come, right, the time gets
bigger between I call someone, I'm like, Hey, what do you, what
do you think about this? Or hey, I'm, I'm having this
craving or whatever. So that was a long rant.
There, No, no, it's a great story.
It is a great story and I didn'trelate to it at first either,
but I mean, I can see it now. I can see it.
And so this time was a lot different though.

(13:01):
I, it was February 10th, 2023 and I was sitting in my bathroom
and I just my will till it was done.
I just couldn't do it anymore. I was in so much pain.
I wasn't able to show up for anybody.
I wasn't able to show up for myself.
I didn't know who I was anymore.I was literally the shell casing
of a human. There was nothing left.
And I reached out to a couple people and one in particular, I

(13:24):
actually every once in a while thank him for this.
I was mad at the time, but he said there's a meeting at 8:00
go. I said I'm still like not good.
He said just go, you know, like here it is, I'll meet you there.
And I said OK, fine, if you'll meet me there, I'll go.
He did not. And I yeah.
And to be honest, I think he saved my like I think he's part

(13:45):
of what saved my life. Because my type of addict, if
you give me an inch, I'm taking everything from you.
I'm not taking the mile. I'm taking everything like.
I mean, I want, I will use an like I just anything like I that
I take, I just want it. And I and not because I, I was a
bad person, but because I was just, I was suffering.

(14:06):
So, you know, I didn't think about your suffering.
I didn't think what it did to you.
And so I had to walk back into those rooms, broken and bloody
and crawling and full of guilt and full of shame and just full
of all the ugliness by myself. And, And I did.
And I remember this day like it was yesterday because I walked

(14:29):
in, had a temper tantrum. I think I kicked a chair.
Like it was just, it was so bad.Like I dyed my hair red the
night before, like total meltdown.
And yeah, and but the like, whatI'm so grateful for in that
moment is like, I had to do it on my own.
There was nobody holding my hand.
There was nobody Co signing my bullshit.

(14:50):
It was me and that was it. So what are you going to do?
And that was my choice. Like, if there was no more
running at that point, I didn't want to die.
And I truly believe that I wouldnot be sitting here right now
had he have. You know what I mean?
I just don't think I would be. I would either be dead or alone
dying inside. I always say this, that if I had

(15:12):
to list all the people, places, institutions, counselors,
doctors, family members that helped me get to this point
today, I'd have a book like thisbig because I have a lot of
pivotal moments like that where I can think of one specific
person. You know, counselors, especially
my first treatment got getting into my first treatment, right?
All these people that even though I re may have relapsed or

(15:33):
whatever after the fact that they planted the seed, I still
that seat is still there. It doesn't go into like I I knew
where to go after that and all those moments lined up perfectly
to get me to where I am today. And everything happened the way
it was supposed to, right? It wasn't perfect by any means,
but I'm still alive and I'm sober today.
So it was all it wasn't all for nothing.

(15:54):
Right. Well, I think too.
Like when I when I came in this time, I was riddled with shame.
Like way more than ever. I mean, I had slept through
Christmas like I just like I was, it had gotten so
significantly worse in the last while that like, like when I

(16:16):
think about it, I just, I never ever, ever want to feel that
again. Like I never want to feel that
again. Like when they talk about, you
know, spiritualities for religions for people who have,
who don't want to go to hell and, and spiritualities for
people who've lived it, like I was in my own personal hell.
And I, I never, ever want to go back to that.

(16:36):
Like in just when I think about the damage that I caused to my
family, like repeatedly and all the promises that I made that I
couldn't keep. And it's actually really funny.
My daughter was taking to her toan appointment a couple months
ago and she's like, we talk openly like my kid, I'm very
open with my kids. And she said, you know what was
crazy about when you were in active addiction?

(16:58):
And I was like, Oh, no, what? Oh, I'm scared.
And she was like, every time something really messed up
happened and she was referring to the day they found me and I
woke up in the hospital, all my clothes got off.
And she was like, you came home and it was just another Tuesday
to you. It was like nothing crazy
happened. And that was how I lived my

(17:19):
life. Like it didn't matter how
traumatic the event was or how messed up it was.
It was just another like, I couldn't be bothered.
I could not be bothered. I just continued on my
destruction path, yeah. Like a tornado right through the
house. That's interesting that she
remembers that, right? Your reaction to it.
Yeah, that's very interesting. I think we don't realize the

(17:41):
impact we have on people in our lives because and I hear this
every single time I talk to an addict that's contemplating like
whether to get help or not is, well, I'm not hurting anyone but
myself, right? And that was a huge one for me
that that kept me out there for a long time.
It's like I'm not do you know, it's just me That's that's,
that's hurting, right, nobody else.

(18:02):
And then come into recovery, youfind out, you know, your wife's
been calling the morgue every night.
She's been calling police stations, She's been calling
funeral homes. And it's like, oh, my God, yeah.
Like, I'd be doing that too, right.
I was gone for so long, for so many days.
Fentanyl, like, there's all, youknow, when I was doing coke,
like, yeah, how could you not dothat, right?
But you don't. You're so stuck in it at the

(18:23):
time that you don't realize the impact the waves that you have
on other people. Tornado, like, like we said,
yeah. I think it's it's crazy, but you
know, it's I'm ultimately what am I trying to say when you so

(18:43):
how you talked about shame Yeah,a lot right.
That's this is where I was gonnago with this.
How do you, cuz that doesn't go away when you get sober at all.
If anything, it amplifies right.How do you, how did you and how
do you deal with that today? That's it's a tough one.
So I think a lot of my shame is surrounded.
So this is a hard question to answer, to be honest.

(19:03):
So, and there's different, different parts to it.
So it depends on which shame we're talking about.
If we're talking about the shameattached to me being a parent,
especially living in active addiction and all the mistakes
that I've made throughout my life, the one like the one big
thing is I have a very high expectation of what I should be
as a mother. And I had to do a lot of work on

(19:24):
that with my sponsor. And so when we were going
through our resentments and our fears, one of my big fears is
being a bad mom. And we, we worked on that.
So I, in that moment, I was ableto like, really look at it and
be like, where did you get this absolutely ridiculous
expectation that nobody in this world can live up to?

(19:45):
Like, that's insane. And I was able to like, you
know, yeah, I am a human with myown experiences that I wasn't
able to work through. And, you know, I wish that I
didn't 'cause everything that I did to my children.
But here's the thing. And this is how I'm able to work
through that. Shame is, yes, addiction touches
everybody around you. They say it's a family disease.

(20:07):
Recovery is also the same, you know, so all my kids live at
home with me. My, you know, we're all very
close. We're not without, you know, our
own problems and our own issues,but we're all very close and.
You know, they've watched me recover so they get to see it
and it hasn't been pretty or without mess.

(20:29):
You know, there was a time when I was a very angry individual.
I wasn't able to handle my emotions.
You know, anger was like my go to until I realized anger was
the secondary emotion and it's blocking me from the pain that I
want that I don't like. I'm avoiding pain through it.
So they watched me become a veryangry person and like they
watched all these things happen,but they also got space to heal

(20:51):
on their own. You know, I was able to give
them that space. And so a lot of that shame I was
I'm able to work through. I also had a lot of shame
attached to a lot of the abuse and traumas that I went through
throughout my life. A good friend of mine and I were
were talking and the one thing that she had said to me that

(21:13):
kind of blew my mind a little bit and I knew it.
But I think when somebody says something to you, sometimes it
like registers a little bit more.
And she was like, I think for a very long time you felt like you
deserved everything that you went through.
And I think she's absolutely correct, right?
So I would carry the shame of something somebody else had done

(21:33):
and I would carry it as my own, when really that's not mine to
carry that somebody else's to carry.
Because I all. But I think the shame is
attached to the fact that because of the pain I was in, I
became all the things that I never wanted to be.
Two other people. Do you know what I mean?
Yeah. So it was like, OK, well, I'm
not going to do this and then I would do that and then I'm not

(21:54):
going to be this and then I would be that, you know what I
mean? So but learning that when you
leave things and you don't work work on them or work through
them like this is what happens. I saw something on social media
yesterday that was like, when you avoid anything, it comes
back tenfold, right? And usually when you least
expect it or, or just in a public place sometimes, Oh my

(22:18):
God, when you're not ready. And it's just like, yeah, for
me, I. So I've done a lot of work, too,
in treatment with counselors andsponsors as well, over shame.
The steps are a great tool for me.
Yeah. They're not for everybody.
I realize that, but it's. They work for me.
Yeah. Same.
It's the only thing that works. Same.

(22:40):
Yeah. And continues to save my life.
Right. So there's a process in there
where you're writing down all these things, right?
And there's something that happens.
This is why I always say journal.
Journaling is so important to me.
It's because something happens when you put it on paper.
I heard, you know, Joe Rogan used to talk about journaling
and how it cleanses like your thoughts and, and offers up more
bandwidth for good thoughts to come in.

(23:01):
Right? You're purging.
Yeah, yeah. And it's like, oh, there it is.
It's not that powerful anymore because it's not circling around
in my head and like doing laps and like gaining, you know,
thoughts. I just thought of this now, but
thoughts in my head, I love, I love metaphors.
So thoughts in my head, it's like they're they're going
around a racetrack and someone'slike fueling them up every stop,
right. And they just keep getting
faster and faster and worse and worse.

(23:22):
And then one day I'm smoking meth again.
You know, it's, it's not that, you know, extreme that quickly,
but you know, all bets are off when I don't follow some sort of
program of recovery. So for me, it's like I have a
lot of shame that comes up everyonce in a while now on all the
money my family spent on my recovery, right?

(23:42):
Whether it was treatment, counselling, life coaching,
whatever in the last 10 or 15 years of my life, that'll come
up every once. So the other day and the reason
this came up the other day, I was at my parents house and I
opened a book and a piece of paper fell out, right?
No thanks, right. I'm supposed to look at this
now. I always do that, right?
I'm like, oh great, what's this gonna be?

(24:03):
Right? And it was like a bank draft
from one of the treatment centers that had been and it was
like, you know, a significant amount of money.
And I just and I forgot about that treatment center and you
know, I hadn't thought about it in a while.
The again, I went to three and I'm all private and I'm grateful
that I went there and I was ableto, you know, pay them off
slowly and surely. But I'm still paying it off.

(24:25):
But but my point was that I looked at it and I was like,
immediately, you piece of shit, how could you do this to them?
Like think about all the money and it's just like boom, boom,
boom, boom, right? And I had to like, I had to get
out of myself. I had to like go talk to
someone. I had to get out.
I went for a walk I think at thetime because my phone is like
3000 lbs sometimes. Yep.
Oh, I know that. Yeah.

(24:46):
So just like get outside for a walk, right?
And that, and then eventually I'd, I'd tell people about it
and it gets better over time. But So what I do with that is
someone in my treatment center recently told me this.
I never used to like affirmations.
I hated them. I thought they were cheesy.
I do them every day now, every single day.
I wake up every morning and I'm like, today's going to be a
great day. I literally started saying that
and it, it's been working like I'm going to be a success.

(25:08):
I'm going to show up today, whatever that looks like, right?
And not financially, not just, I'm just going to be myself,
right? And she always used to say this
and I love it. She said, I have these
affirmations every morning whereshe says 3 things.
I forgive myself. I love myself, and I believe in
myself. And I find that sometimes when
all else fails, like if I can just go back to that, even

(25:28):
writing it out in my journal, it's like, yeah, I fucked up.
I made a lot of mistakes, right?I spent a lot of money, you
know, I spent a lot of money on treatment with my parents, but I
also spent a lot of money on drugs and alcohol, too, right?
Today, I can say that I'm not doing that.
Yeah. So.
I think there's something reallybeautiful in that though, like
you feel a lot of shame, but like if we change the narrative
on that and like change it to your parents, like look at how

(25:50):
much they really did care, right?
And I think sometimes when we'restuck in in self like that, like
that, it's so hard for us to seethe other side And yeah, it but
it's a beautiful thing. Like, you know, I and I see it
all the like, I didn't have family that had supported me
through it and I didn't go to treatment.
I didn't go to detox. I ended up with pause because of

(26:13):
it, but that's fine. You end up with what?
Post acute with. Yeah, yeah.
Post acute withdrawal. Terrible I.
Know it took me a while to get over that too.
Yeah, but you know, like I, I think that's beautiful.
I but I think on the other side of that one, when I get
resentful that I didn't have like all these, you know, my
family kind of, you know, coming, chasing down my door

(26:36):
door or any of that stuff. I remember that like I have this
beautiful family that I've made in recovery, you know what I
mean? So there were strange perfect
strangers like there to pick me up when I needed it.
But it's all changing narrative for me.
Like before I was always like, why me?
Well, why not me? No, really.
Yeah. Like why should I be immune to

(26:57):
all the hardships of the world? Like what is that?
Right. I love it.
Yeah, so. But I like, I love that they
were so supportive. Like that's an amazing thing to
have. Yeah, it's a, it's a good point
and thank you for bringing that up because recovery does offer
me that. Yeah, from a high level view, if
I had to sum up recovery, you know, I would say let go.
Like that's a big one. Like let go that that could be

(27:20):
summed up in 2 words. And I didn't make that up.
Sandy BI believe made that up who's a a speaker but let go and
like, yeah, it's it's a beautiful thing that that we're
in. But if I could sum it up in
another way too, is all recoverydoes to me for for me.
Sorry for me is it it lets me shift perspective in all

(27:41):
situations of my life. You know, whether it's someone a
sponsee sponsor someone in recovery, your family members.
Hey, why don't you look at it this way, right.
And you're like, Oh yeah, I never thought of that, so I
appreciate. That yeah, and to call myself
out like I, I live a, a pretty spiritual life these days.
I do. But like I can't be spiritual

(28:02):
with everybody. Like I, there are parts of my
life where I struggle with that and I think that's like
important to note too, because again, that shame creeps in
like, oh, I wish I didn't behavethat way 'cause now I don't have
a problem with drugs or alcohol.Now I got a problem with my
behavior, right? Like I'm like, but the
difference is like I catch thosethings a lot quicker now and

(28:25):
again. It's the change in perspective
and like. I almost just lost it at a lady
at the gas station over there. So it's funny because, you know,
there was a long time where people were talking about Elon
Musk creating this chip thing. And bear with me for a second
here, this I'm going to relate spec where it's like a microchip
where people could read each other's thoughts.

(28:46):
And I was always like, yeah, like, I hope that never happens.
Because if someone could read what I'm thinking, I got them
fucked. I'm so screwed.
Present, yeah. So I was standing in line at the
gas station and one of my pet peeves.
I have a few of them, but one ofmy pet peeves is the person that
does the lottery tickets at the front when there's like a whole
line of the gas station and thenthey're asking questions and
this and that. I'm like, I gotta go, don't you?

(29:07):
You know, And then it all goes back to the the director, right?
I am the, I want to be the director.
Like you need to follow my script.
You need to listen to me. If everybody just played along
with my parts, my script, the world would be a better place.
Right. And I, I feel like the control

(29:29):
part though, is so hard, like inespecially like I've been on my
own for quite some time. So like as a parent and as a
human, like I left home and I think it was like 15 years old.
And so the control piece is really hard for me.
Like I used to gain this false sense of security and I had to
do that on my own and I was never actually safe.

(29:50):
So now when things feel out of control to me, like I really had
to work on like let it go. And it's still one of those
things where like I'm starting to OK, I'd catch myself
sometimes I'm like, why isn't this?
Nope, God has a different clock than me or whatever you believe
in the universe, the Teresa outside whatever.
For me, I, I call it God becauseit's easy, but he doesn't run on

(30:11):
my, he doesn't run on my clock at all.
And we fight about it sometimes.But you know, yeah, control was
hard for. Me.
That's a good way to put it. Yeah.
I get what I need today, not what I want.
And then I invariably find out that it was what I wanted the
whole time, right? If that makes sense.
I get what I need today. It's not on my time though.

(30:33):
So somebody had said to me quitesome time ago, you know, I'd be
like, why is this bad thing happening to me?
You know, and I would place judgements on whatever was
happening in my life. This is so, if I'm being honest,
the very beginning of my recovery.
Well, actually pretty much my whole recovery has been a
dumpster fire. Like it's been really hard,
right? It's like 1 traumatic thing
after another. And but what happened was she

(30:55):
was like, maybe instead of placing judgment on what's
happening in your life, you justlook at it as an experience
because I was like, this is terrible or this is amazing.
And then it would turn out to bethe opposite.
So like what I'm really, really,really understanding, but also
seeing now in my recovery is whatever happens and whether I

(31:16):
think it's good or bad, I reallyhave no idea because the worst
possible thing that happens might be the best in the long
run for me. I just don't know it yet.
So if I look at things as an experience rather than oh, this
is terrible, why is this happening?
Or oh, this is the best thing, yay, and then turns out to be
the worst thing. So just trying to like move
through the experience, whateverit.

(31:37):
Is that's a great point? This is like, this is bad or
good in my mind right now, right?
Like that, right this second. It's, it's not.
And we don't really know what, what, what the outcome is going
to be because we can't control the outcomes.
Yeah. I want to talk about
spirituality a little bit more than faith because I think

(31:59):
that's important and we we bringit up here quite a bit.
But what does faith look like toyou today on a daily basis?
Today it's a lot different than it was.
That was a tough one for me. It was really tough because I
truly believed that I did not believe in God.
And then I came to or spirituality, like faith,
anything. And then I came to realize that
if you hate something, you believe in it.

(32:22):
So like I absolutely did, but ittook a really long time for me
to get to where I am. So like at first I was like, I
just, I can't get on this, this God spirituality train.
I can't do it. And someone was like, just be
open and willing. Like it doesn't have to be, you
know, Jesus or like whatever. It doesn't have to be what

(32:43):
everyone else thinks. Like, just allow yourself to be
open to the idea of something greater than you.
And so I did. And then I would go to meetings
and I'd be struggling. And then all of a sudden
everyone would be talking about the things that I'm struggling
with. Yeah.
And like, it would became too much to be a coincidence.
And then it became numbers because I'm a weirdo.
And then. And then it started to really
shift. Where?

(33:04):
So the beginning of my recovery,I relied very heavily on human
aid. I needed my sponsor to tell me
which foot to put my shoe on. Like I I just, I called her for
everything. And then something happened
where she was removed from my life very quickly and I had a
bottom in recovery and I startedto shift from human aid to the

(33:26):
spiritual program. And, you know, today, it really
looks like, I don't know why this is happening, but I trust
you, you know, so I, I truly believe that everything that
I've gone through in my life hasgotten me to where I am.
And although I may not have deserved some of those things,
they absolutely created the human that I am today.

(33:48):
And it gives me the opportunity to share that with other people,
which I think is beautiful. Like there's purpose in that.
And whatever happens going forward there, there is a reason
for it. And I have to just trust that.
So I think that's where my faithlies today.
And I mean, I do get up. I talk to God a lot normally

(34:10):
it's like rambling. I didn't know how to pray at the
beginning. I literally prayed like this.
Hey, man, are you anybody there?Like, I just, I didn't know how.
And eventually, you know, now itbecomes like more of a
conversation where like if I'm really struggling, like crying
was really hard for me. I don't like vulnerability.

(34:31):
I felt like it made me look weak.
And now like I'll be driving in my car with tears streaming down
my face. Like, I don't know what you're
doing right now, but like, I trust you, you know?
So that's how it's really shifted for me.
I really believe that, like, me being here today was not me.
Like, you know, I very much could have ended my life in that

(34:53):
day. And something inside of me said
there has to be more than this. And that was not me talking
because I didn't talk like that at the time.
So that had to be something greater than myself.
I have goosebumps thinking aboutit because it's so true.
Like that's that's, you know, spiritual experiences or a term
that you often hear. Yes, and that was a spiritual
experience for sure, where it's like, I don't know what happened
for me, my spiritual experience.I've had many.

(35:15):
Yep. I didn't realize it at the time.
Again, you understand it. You know, life is lived forward
and understood in reverse. Yes, someone said once to me, my
last bottom was at a hotel. I was getting kicked out.
I had enough drugs on me going into like I gave them to my wife
before I went into rehab, but I had enough drugs to go probably
another week, right. And that's not me like giving

(35:36):
that up. I something and I was just there
was something in my head that said give up your drugs and go
to rehab like you have no other.I mean, I had a lot of choices,
don't get me wrong, but I didn'tto your point.
You mentioned this earlier is like it was harder in my mind
for me to keep facing that demonover and over again than it was
to just let someone drive me into treatment again.

(35:58):
You know what I mean? And I had that moment for a long
time. It wasn't though.
For a long time, it was harder to get someone to just simply
drive me into treatment than it was to stay out there and use.
But it was like, and again, that's I spent many weeks
fighting that until one day it was like, boom, something popped
in my head. There's a small window of
willingness. And then I spent the next four
days detoxing in my apartment. And I don't know what happened,

(36:22):
but I gave up my drugs that day and I was done right.
It's like you come face to face with the shadow finally, like
face to face with it. And like, I don't, I didn't
understand it at the time, but it was like this is it like what
are you going to do? Yeah.
What does it say? We have two options.
To go on to the bitter end, using and drinking until we die,

(36:43):
or to end up in jails and institutions.
Or a lot of us do, We're alone. A lot of us do end up in those
positions, right? I think that's why this is so
important for me. Like why I'm so in the middle of
her like why I'm in the middle of my own recovery is because
like I see it all the time now, right?
Like recovery is going to save less people than addiction is

(37:04):
going to take. So like, if if you can continue
to do this and we can continue to try and like alleviate some
of the stigma. Like not everyone's going to
understand, you know, people hate things they don't
understand. That's why it's such a harsh
stigma attached to it. But if we can keep talking about
it and keep sharing our experiences, then maybe other
people who really think they can't do it might have that

(37:24):
small little inkling that they can.
And I think that's so important.Do you think that it'll ever
outweigh that it'll ever turn the other way around?
I hope so, but I don't know. And the reason I say that is
because I I'm an observer and what I've observed is, and this
is just my own personal opinion,so don't come for me if if you

(37:47):
think I'm wrong, OK? But yeah, cancelled.
I think people are, are terrified of their, of dealing
with their pain. You know, I've watched people
come in and I've watched them goback out because that pain
consumes them again. And trying something new is so
much more terrifying than livingin that pain or sorry, yeah,
then dealing with that pain. So I think it like it takes a

(38:10):
lot of courage and it takes a lot of work, takes a lot of
willingness. Like it takes a lot to make
those changes and it's so much. And for some it's easy, like,
and it was for me too. It was easier for me to just go
back, you know, to not face these things.
Like, my recovery's been extremely painful, but it's also
been full of of the most beautiful blessings.

(38:32):
Like, not without pain, but thatpain I think is very hard for
some people to face. And without pain, you wouldn't
experience the high highs, right?
It's like I I wouldn't appreciate a sunset if I hadn't
seen a million cloudy days. I used to hate the sun, you
know, like, you know, like birdsare chirping.
The sun's out. Rude.

(38:52):
I am busy. Yeah.
Like you know what I mean? I'm not done yet.
Yeah, like the wind would piss me off, like everything, you
know, And now, like those are some of the, like the sunset,
the waves crashing. Like these are the things that I
like, I love, you know, there's something really healing about
the water and like being able tohave a moment where I'm actually
able to watch the sunset and notbe thinking about, well, I got

(39:16):
to get back to my car 'cause I need to use, you know what I.
Mean not thinking about yesterday.
Yeah, who I heard earlier why I need to cover this pain up.
Yeah, it's exhausting. Yeah.
So you mentioned that you had some bottoms, like in recovery.
Yeah. How did you get through those?
And yeah, I don't really know either.

(39:36):
I don't know how I've gotten through them.
So I I like what you said about trusting.
Right? Faith being trust.
Yeah. I don't know why this is
happening, but I know that the outcome is gonna be what it's
going to be, right? It's not going to be good or
bad, but ultimately it's better if I stay in recovery then go
back out. So can you talk about like a
little bit about hardships and. Yeah, absolutely.

(39:58):
So I think for me, I had no trust when I came in like at
all. I think a lot like I think
that's normal for a lot of us. I don't want to speak for anyone
else but in my experience trust was non existent for me.
Like non existent. However, and I also did not get

(40:19):
along with women at all for the most part.
Like women and I just we didn't.I didn't.
Recovery or? Like pre recovery, yeah.
Like just I grew up with women hating my guts, which was fine.
I didn't really like them either.
So. But when I got into recovery,
all of a sudden I was surroundedby all these really strong women

(40:40):
and like women who, you know, weren't there to tear me down,
women who were there to pick me up.
And so I think my trust started there, you know, when I was able
to like, and I, I think it goes back to like childhood stuff,
you know, like I had a really abusive mother.
And so the trust there with women was already broken.
And now there's these women and I have to, I have to trust them

(41:02):
because they're the ones that are showing me where I got to
go. And so that kind of opened the
door to the trust thing. And I think that helped a lot
with when things happened in my life, like really negative
things, because I was able to like call this group of really
strong women who would not Co sign any of my bullshit.

(41:22):
They would tell me the truth, they would support me, you know,
they'd let me talk about my problem.
But what's the solution attachedto that?
We're not seeing in the problem.Yeah, 'cause like if you let me
live in the in the problem, I'm going like I'm going to end up
going back out eventually. I don't want to do that.
I want to talk about it for a minute though, 'cause I'm in
pain. But now tell me like, tell me
the truth. So and, and that built a lot of

(41:44):
trust and I think that's how I've gotten through everything.
It's like I do have these peoplein my corner that I can rely on
and I, I'm able to ask for help now where before I was never
able to ask for help. I was just this ultra
independent or seemingly super independent person who didn't
need anything from anyone. And really, like, you can't do

(42:06):
this alone. So I think that's kind of like a
big pivotal moment. I also had a moment in recovery.
I think it was about 18 months clean and sober.
And I was in a relationship, youknow, we had used together and
we met an active addiction. And then I got clean and sober
and he didn't. And, you know, I blamed him for

(42:26):
a lot of things for a long time.But the more recovery I got, the
more I could see why he acted the way he did.
But I wasn't able to necessarilychange my behavior at the time.
And I went through this bottom and recovery where I was just
like, so angry and sad and I didn't know how to manage
anything. And I was driving my car and I'm
crying and screaming. Like if somebody saw me, they

(42:46):
would have probably called 911. Like, somebody come get her.
She's not OK. And I think that's where my
faith really shifted and where Igot this trusting moment because
I put my phone on do not disturbwhen I got home.
And I'm just crying and crying. And like, this lasted for hours.
And then all of a sudden it stopped.
Like I was just sitting there like begging God like please,

(43:07):
like fucking help me. Like I'm dying here in recovery.
And oh God, I'm just thinking about it.
And it was like if I could visualize it, it was like
something just grabbed me and like squished me and it was like
everything's. And I stopped crying
immediately. Like, I mean, ugly, snotty cry.

(43:28):
And just immediately it just, and from that moment, I think
that's where my faith really started to grow.
It was like, I don't need to know the answers.
I don't need to know if everything's going to be OK like
it is. I have to just trust that.
But I think there's a lot of power in going through those
really tough times because that's how we learn.

(43:50):
Like I I shared my story once ata treatment center and I was
talking about how I was addictedto suffering.
I was like, I would, I will suffer through anything.
That is my superpower. I can do it.
But like, do I want to suffer? No.
Do I want to feel pain? Yeah, I can go through pain.
That's cool. I don't want to suffer anymore.
I don't want to be addicted to that chaos.

(44:12):
And one of the women said, how do you know if you're suffering
or you're in pain? And I was like, oh shit, that's
a good question. Because I do different.
Things they are. And I did.
I said give me a minute. And I was like sitting there
like shit, how do you know? And, and so for me, if I'm
comfortable in my pain, I'm suffering.
If I am uncomfortable in my pain, that is pain.

(44:32):
There's growth on the other sideof that.
But if I'm sitting there comfortably in my pain and I'm
in self pity and self loathing, I am not growing.
There is no growth attached to that.
I am literally feeding the devilright now.
That is what I'm doing. You know, I'm feeding my demons.
So, yeah, I've been through a lot of of hardship in recovery,
but that hardship has been the best thing for me because

(44:55):
there's so much growth attached to that.
And then too, like you get to a point where you're like, if I
can get through that, Jesus, I can get through anything.
I say that about, I say that about I called my sponsor one
day and I was like, guess what happened?
And I told her and I forget whatit was.
And she was like, the next time somebody says to me, I can't do
this, I'm just going to tell them to call you, 'cause she's
like, I swear to God, you've been through like every possible
thing that you could go through in recovery.

(45:18):
And but I'm grateful for that. Yeah, isn't it funny that you
can't remember what? That I can't remember what it
was 'cause it. Wasn't that bad, no.
But at the time I'm like, Oh my God, this is terrible.
My life's over. And then I'm like, what happened
last week? I don't even know.
It's it's crazy. We do this thing where we, we
walk around like with movie projectors projecting our movie

(45:39):
onto the world, right? And somebody comes in, they're
like, it's not that bad, dude. Like I've been through worse.
I, I've been through that and got through it.
Whether it's financial, whether it's death, right?
Grieving, There's a lot of bad shit that can happen in life,
you know, abuse, right? And people have gone through it.
They're going through it right now.
They're, you know, I had a womanhere that got through sex

(46:00):
trafficking and she's sober now.And like, her story was insane.
I couldn't relate to half the shit, but I could relate to all
the feelings and I could relate to wanting love and I could
relate to codependence and like if she can get through that and
like, you know what I mean? It's and we're all it's not to
say that her trauma is worse than anyone.
Trauma's subjective, right? Your trauma or my trauma.

(46:22):
I'll say it this way. My trauma might be your Tuesday
afternoon. You know what I mean?
So I think that's important to note and it's something that I,
I share a lot. If if I'm sharing my story is
like, my story is not gonna looklike yours.
And whether it's seemingly worseor seemingly better than your
story, remember that like everybody's pain is relevant.
Like it's, it is everybody's andit's it's relative to you.

(46:42):
So whatever I feel and whatever I went through, whatever you
feel and whatever you went through, the feelings of the
same story is different. I think that's really important.
Absolutely. Did you, so you mentioned drugs
a lot and did you struggle with alcohol as well or was that kind
of? Alcohol was probably like the
worst for me. Like I was I used heavy drugs

(47:04):
when I was younger. I took like a very long hiatus
and started again, like later inlife after my last son and it or
just before I got pregnant with my last son.
And it almost took me out. Like it was like I didn't miss a
day. Yeah.
I hear this a lot. The reason I ask you that, I
hear this a lot, where people are coming in and they're like,

(47:24):
yeah, yeah, I'm a drug addict, Check.
And I was like this too, alcohol, but alcohol was never
my problem. What do you say to those people
when they say that? It's not my place, so for my for
me it anything like it doesn't matter what it is.
If I'm using something to fill the hole my ego dug, I have a
problem. Like anything that's numbing my

(47:45):
feelings, I have a problem with.I am an addict through and
through. It doesn't matter what it is, I
will use people, I will use places, I will use things.
Whatever it takes to fill that void, I will.
I will do it. Period.
So like, I was absolutely an alcoholic.
It took me a bit to come to thatbecause it's so socially
acceptable, right? But like every time I put
alcohol in my body, I can't stop.

(48:06):
And every time I put any substance, I can't stop.
I was the same with the relationships.
I can't stop. So you know, that's what it is
for me. So I can't.
Yeah, that's that's my opinion on.
It, no, I, it's true. And I, you know, the reason I
bring it up is because it's a pretty common thing where people
are able to accept. I, I go back to my treatment

(48:26):
center every so often when I'm able to, and we do an aftercare
program. And there was a guy that was
sitting there and was like, yeah, I like, I, I check I'm an
addict for sure. But I think I can still drink.
Like I, I think I still got thisright.
And I definitely was like that when I first came out.
I heard it someone say in Utah one time when I was there for
treatment, the same shit, different shovel, you know, And

(48:46):
I love it. It is like I use outside things
to change my insides. I've done it with gambling.
I've done it with anything, all sorts of relationships, like you
said, all sorts of things. For me, though, when I start
drinking, I just immediately want drugs, right?
So it was like when I said, and when I said that to him, he was
like, yeah, yeah, like me too, right.

(49:06):
And that was a simple enough to kind of bridge the gap there.
And I can't remember a time where I can remember a time
where I maybe had a glass of wine.
This was a long time ago, but atsome point in the future I was
grabbing cocaine and it's like. I think it's like the the shift
like my brain shift too, right? Like if I were to make the
conscious decision today to pickup a drink, before I even get to

(49:30):
that drink, I'm ruining everybody's life.
That's that's the reality of thetype of addict alcoholic I am.
I don't need to actually have the substance in my body.
I just need to have that conscious choice that that's the
way I'm going to live my life because once I start living in
my active addiction self, I literally destroy everything.
Yeah, and all the behaviors, allthe behaviors, all the thought

(49:51):
patterns come with it, all the poor me.
And that's the plan thought about.
That right. And like, that's, that's what's
really like really big for me today is like, I really thought
drugs and alcohol were my problem and they weren't, they
were my solution. They, they're actually what kept
me alive for a bit, if I'm beinghonest.
Like, yes, they almost took my life, but they also saved me

(50:12):
from the pain I didn't want to feel.
But what I really, really, really realized through doing
work in recovery is like, that was not my problem.
My problem was me. It was the things I was
avoiding, the pain I didn't wantto face, you know, it was all of
those things. And because of those things, I
ended up hurting so many people,so many people.

(50:36):
And that is not the life I want to Live Today.
Yeah. It's exhausting.
It's so exhausting. And it's filled with shame and
guilt. And again, like you mentioned
before, who did I hurt? What?
Who do I have to make an apologyto?
And this sorry's and right. Yeah.
And some people aren't coming back.
Yeah. Like I that's a.
Good point too. Yeah, so I explained sometimes,
like the way I see it is like there's these scales and, and on

(51:00):
one side you have people's love for you and on the other side
they, you have your, their fear of you reoffending.
And the more we lie and the morewe hurt and the more pain we
cause, their fear of us reoffending just goes up and up
and up. And then we get decide to make
this, we decide to get into recovery and like change our
lives. That fear of us reoffending
doesn't come down right away. And for some people, it's never

(51:20):
coming down. It's not that they don't love
us, it's just that their fear ofus reoffending is so much
greater than their love for. And the trust is just gone.
And I mean, I'm not gonna force anybody back into my life.
If your life is better without me in it, then it should
probably stay that way. Like I I take no offense to that
anymore. Yeah.
I and again, I have no control over it anyways and at the

(51:43):
minute I try to control that like you mentioned the
beginning, everything goes up yeah, because control is our
biggest enemy it. Really is.
I just want everyone to live my way, right?
Beautiful, amazing. Let's end with this because I
always end with this. But if you could say something
to someone struggling in active alcoholism or addiction right

(52:03):
now, what would you say? That's a good question.
I don't know cuz there's nothinganyone could have said to me.
I what I will say is like I truly believe that I was
incapable of change and I did not believe anybody was capable
of change. I thought that's just the way
people are. That's it.
Until I changed, until I saw theother side, I was incapable of

(52:26):
seeing that it was possible. And now I do believe that
anybody can change. I do believe that it is possible
and it is possible for anybody. But you have to, you have to
take that first step. Nobody can take it for you.
I love it. And there's a lot of help out
there, too. There's so much help.
Yeah. Yeah, I love it.
Yeah. To your point, it's like I can
watch a million recovery videos,but until I make that first step

(52:49):
and it it's right, it's nobody'scoming to save you.
Nobody. Like it sounds harsh, but it's
true. I've had that experience. 1000%.
You know, my parents could do all the support financially and
emotionally and bringing me and what?
But I had to get in the car. I had to stay at the treatment
center. I had to do the work.
Like it's all these things that line up together, right?
Thank you so much, Candace, for coming down.

(53:11):
I appreciate you. I had so much fun today.
Thanks, So nervous. You did great, thanks.
Thanks for listening. Please help us grow the channel
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The discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for
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This content is not a substitutefor professional medical advice,
addiction treatment, or therapy.If you or someone you know is

(53:33):
struggling with addiction, please consult A licensed
physician, addiction specialist,or mental.
Health professional, you are no longer alone.