August 19, 2025 • 39 mins
After serving four years in prison, Emily O’Brien didn’t just rebuild her life—she built a brand. Comeback Snacks is now in over 1,500 stores, but the story behind it is about much more than popcorn. It’s about resilience, accountability, and using your past to fuel your future. In this episode, Emily shares her path from addiction to entrepreneurship, and why she believes everyone deserves a second chance.
After being sentenced to a four-year jail term, Emily set out on the mission to transform herself and make her time in jail as meaningful as possible. Having fostered an entrepreneurial career before her sentence, Emily developed the idea for Comeback Snacks to create mouth watering popcorn flavours, inspired by her experience of it being the perfect social snack to bring her and her fellow inmates together, and make the most of a tough time.
Aware of the hardships of being incarcerated, Emily is driven to help remove the stigma surrounding people with prior convictions, as well as connect them with opportunities for reintegration through training, empowerment and education.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Nothing added up. But so then after I got
arrested, it was 2 1/2 years on house arrest and really coming
to terms with how like my substances had got me there.
I mean, I everything else was kind of a surprise, but I knew
that I had to address something like it was like, come on, Like
I'm not blaming this guy. I'm not blaming the system.
I blamed him for a bit. I was mad.
(00:21):
But then I was like, no one's going to fix this but you.
And it was really fucking annoying just sitting in
emotional anguish for a year anda half because that wasn't me.
So that was like weed was takingaway my personality being in
that state. Yeah, they always say resentment
is like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies,
right? Like, hi there, welcome back or
welcome to Recovering Out Loud podcast, the show where we get
(00:44):
real about mental health and addiction.
I'm so glad you're here. If you or someone you love is
struggling with drugs or alcohol, please reach out for
help. Send me a message on all social
media platforms at Recovering Out Loud Pod or by e-mail at
recoveringoutloudpod@gmail.com. You are no longer alone.
(01:21):
What motivated me to start the podcast?
You know, actually, I actually love when people ask me
questions. Come on here because, you know,
you have to do a lot of listening when you start up.
So I learned something. If you like talking, don't start
a podcast because it's all aboutlistening, right?
I love to talk. So I've learned to really listen
through this journey and like, really pay attention to, I don't
(01:44):
know, I guess feelings in what people are talking about and
like how I can relate because your story, as we'll find out,
is clearly a lot different than mine.
But I guarantee you, you're going to say things today that
I'm like, oh, yeah, like, I get that.
I get that feeling. I get that.
Like, that makes sense to me, right.
And then centered around, you know, consequences and drugs and
(02:05):
the consequences of drugs and the consequences of my actions
and stuff like. That right on drugs.
Yeah, exactly. And I always, you know, I will
answer your question, I promise.But I like to talk.
I I always say this is like someone, you know, when someone
ever says to me, like, man, it'snot fair, you know, like it's
not fair. Life's not fair.
I had a counselor once say to meif life was fair, we would all
(02:27):
be dead or in jail, right? Like right now.
And it's true because my actions, like if you look at my
life on paper, I should have been dead many times.
I should have been in jail many times.
But I don't know why for some reason I managed to today get
through that without the consequences like that tomorrow
if I pick up, I don't know. I don't know what'll happen.
I'll probably end up somewhere else.
(02:49):
So to answer your question, whatstarted me, I, I was in
treatment this last time in January, 3rd time in treatment
and I was again on my knees. Like just drugs had brought me
and myself had brought me to a place where I was like, how the
fuck did I get here? How did I like, how did I get
here? I had eight years clean and
(03:10):
sober, almost eight years. And I chose to take my will back
and do things my way. And you know, ADHD medication is
the one thing that I can control.
Like that was my thought pattern, right?
Like, I'm gonna do this differently.
I'm going to fix this, I'm goingto fix it and I'm going to do it
properly this time. I'm going to take it as
prescribed. And we probably both know how
that ends up. Like, no, I'm and then before I
(03:32):
know it, I'm doing new drugs, I'm doing benzos, I'm smoking
meths, doing all these things. So I'm in treatment this last
time. And there's this guy in there.
I love him to death. Will he had a podcast and he's
talking about how much he loves it.
And I'm like, man, I've always wanted to do that.
And he's like, do it like straight, like didn't even fuck
around. He's like, you should do it.
And that gave me a little bit ofhope because we would watch his
(03:54):
on YouTube and and I was like, man, like I could do this right.
And I love listen well, I love talking.
I thought that it was going to be about that.
But I also love hearing people'sstories.
And I love podcasts. Like I really love podcasts.
I listen to the. You have a good podcast voice
too. Thanks.
You, you have to get over that first, Like same with social
media, but you have to get over the initial like cringiness of
(04:15):
your own voice, right? And then you notice.
It's like, oh I know I recorded 2 songs in prison.
Like I wrote and recorded 2 songs as part of the music
program. What kind of music?
It was just like pop songs. Like one of them, one of them
was like a ballad. Like with this whole music
program, they had a professionalcome in and teach you how to do
music. And then I like listen to my
songs. I was like, you get like the ick
and. Then you're never again, right?
(04:36):
Oh, man. I'm gonna ask you something,
Emily. Thank you for coming down, by
the way. I appreciate it.
Welcome to Recovering Out Loud. If you, if, if somebody could
get what do you want people to get out of your story?
Like what? What do you hope that people get
out of your story? That anyone can come back from
any horrible situation in their life if they just take ownership
(04:56):
of it. So many times people just want
to take the victim mentality andblame everyone else.
And yeah, you know, I did that in the beginning, but that
doesn't get you very far at all.So you don't have to go to
prison to necessarily make a comeback.
And you're going to have to makemore than one comeback in your
life. I'm just like waiting for my
next thing that like at least I know that I have now I have the
the tools and the skill set to be able to kind of get out of
(05:17):
that, even if it takes a long time.
You know, we go through things every year, almost every week
that are hard to get out of. But the second kind of build a
foundation of like knowing how to get out of it.
And sometimes you can't rush a comeback takes time, right?
So. This like resilience, right?
Yeah, because I don't like that word.
It's like, so I don't know, I just feel like it's so I guess I
haven't had a word. Yeah.
(05:37):
OK, OK. Like.
It's like rah rah rah for me, like.
Healing or I'm trying to think. It's cutting the bullshit.
Yeah, yeah, cutting the bullshit.
Own your shit, cut the bullshit,own your shit and move on.
And then try to help others at the same time.
And I guess that's kind of like how you build resiliency.
It's not just a, it's a great word for like a lot of people.
It's just not a word for me so. I I totally understand, yeah.
(06:03):
I want to talk about, like, whatwas your childhood like?
Do you want to talk about a little bit about what growing up
was like in your house and your experiences?
I had a bowl cut so. Great start.
What were the 90s? 90s.
Bowl cut. Yeah, honestly, great, great
parents. Two.
I was a middle child of three daughters.
We're all three years apart. Pretty close family.
(06:23):
You know, we did all the normal things, went to church.
Church was part of our life. Although I didn't behave very
well in church, my dad had to incentivize us with timbits for
good behavior. I started learning more about
the lessons of church like when I was like a little bit older,
but we did all that. I was in like a lot of clubs
past played a lot of sports because I had a lot of energy
and I was always a learner. And then elementary school was
(06:43):
kind of where like people started being mean to me.
And so I kind of just became an introvert.
I mean, everyone goes like it could be like, oh, I was Billy.
That's why I went to prison. No, like it's crap.
So like everyone goes through shitty experiences as a
childhood child is childhood is just childhood.
You know? Some like, I guess for me,
(07:04):
becoming an introvert and like and then also not knowing how to
socialize kind of led to my druguse though for sure 'cause I
don't know how to talk. So in high school I was like,
well I'm just going to get a Colt 45 and 2 Zig Zags.
Baby, that's all I need. Yeah.
Oh, man. So what?
What do you think that like, do you want to explain a little bit
more about what the alcohol and drugs did for you in the
(07:25):
beginning? In the beginning, it was the key
to socialization, the key to meeting people.
I was pretty shy, you know, and I did feel like kind of a bit of
an outcast and then the like kind of the I did a lot of
heavy. Well, grade 9, I wouldn't say I
did heavy drugs. I smoked weed.
I didn't even like weed. I don't know why I.
Smoked it, I was. Like what am I doing?
(07:46):
I'm like greening out at school like and and it didn't, it made
me the opposite of like what I wanted to be like.
It just made me more awkward. Yeah, I never liked weed and I
never heard it said said this, but it's so true.
Said like this. Like I always hated weed because
it like took away my personalitycompletely.
And I was like, yes, that that was me too.
Right, Yeah. Whereas alcohol, it brought it
out a little bit more and then cocaine just helped me stay out
(08:10):
like a little bit later. And MDMA I really liked in high
school, but then I was like obviously acting out and my
parents were sick of it. I was, I went from like being a
really nice kid, you know, I wasvery friendly.
I was really happy. I, I was always planting trees
and like volunteering, like, youknow, just generally happy.
But then it was kind of those troubling years and later, later
on, on an elementary school and then high school that I know
(08:32):
some would say it's pretty normal teenage things, but
obviously I took it a bit too far.
Yeah. And so like what happened?
What was the moment where it it went too far and and you kind of
needed to make a change or realized that it wasn't working
for you anymore? Well, I knew that in high school
I had this little tactic. It was called strategic
procrastination. So I.
(08:53):
Knew that. Go on, I love this.
So I knew that if I, even if I got like crap grades in grade
9:00 and 10:00, as long as I gotgood grades in grade 11:00 and
12:00, I could get into university.
And so I knew that when I want to turn it off, I could turn it
off and turn it back on again. And that's exactly what I did.
I got into the University of Guelph.
I want to go in for business. My, my math grades weren't good
(09:15):
enough because I didn't want to take calculus like it was, I
just didn't want to take it. I was like, screw it.
And then I couldn't get it. I also loved like nutrition and
stuff. So I was always into like
exercise and fitness and all that, but then my chemistry
wasn't good enough. Despite the fact that I had this
like really nerdy guy that I gotto do my homework, I still.
Classic sounds like Mean Girls. Who's actually really, really
(09:36):
nice. So I ran into him like on the
bus like a couple years ago and I was like, thanks.
For doing all my. Homework.
Yeah, it was great. It was very nice dissecting pigs
and all that stuff. Oh no, I think it was biology.
That was grade 11. That was different classes I.
Remember that? But yeah, so then in grade
eleven, grade 12, I just got my grades up, went to university.
(09:56):
So I think the turning point number one for me was actually
in university when I got a DUI. Like I was drinking, driving,
and I couldn't figure out how tostop.
I didn't know why I couldn't stop.
And I deliberately drank and drove in front of like a police
officer so that I'd get pulled over so I could stop.
It's like I sabotage myself. I'm getting goosebumps as you
say that. Sorry to cut you off, but like,
it's, it's 'cause that happened to me too with benzos, where I
(10:19):
would do benzos, get in the car and then I would go to my
parents' house for no reason. And I today I see it as like a
subtle cry for help kind of subconsciously, right?
It's like, although I didn't really want to go and get help,
my body and my my soul maybe I don't know, it was like help me,
right? But I don't know how to ask for
help. Yeah.
So if you show up at your parents house high on benzos,
that's a good way to to show that you're hurting.
(10:41):
Yeah. My dad tells me I repeated the
same story like 6 times and there my words like this.
And so yeah, that was that was my thought on it anyways.
Yeah, sorry. Oh no, that's interesting.
You got to talk too, you know. Yeah, I mean.
Conversation. It's.
Not a model. It's about you, Yeah, But yeah.
So you, you purposely. Yeah.
(11:04):
And what happened after? That because I knew that like I
knew that it was wrong and it was bad, but I still want that
booze kicked in. I couldn't stop.
And so I was like, what is it going to take when you get
caught? Because I knew that it was
selfish, but I was still doing like these things for God knows
what reason. Like I don't know, like I just
could not. It's because I had this my
parents car. So I thought it was going to be
cool driving around like I don'tknow, like anyway, so I did the
(11:25):
back on track program and luckily I got caught in the best
way ever. You know, I got pulled over,
plead guilty. No one got hurt and like but why
I chose that tactic when it could have been way worse I
don't know. But after that day, it's like I
never never did it again. What's back on track program?
It was this mandatory program that you had to take like after
you get a DUI. So you can either you everyone
(11:45):
has to take it. But for me, because I was still
in university, I didn't even have a car.
So they're like, oh, you can putthe the breathalyzer in your
car. Oh, yeah, OK for a year.
But the, the program itself was just like a program my dad had
to take me to like sit in a circle and it was like
educational. But then they're like, you can
take the, you can have this thing in your car for a year, or
you can just wait another year after your license has been
(12:06):
suspended and have no thing. So I was like, well, I don't
have a car anyway, so I just took the two year suspension and
it was, yeah. And then so then after that you
did that stop like you're drinking and using and then
like, how did that what what ended up?
Happening. That stopped my drinking and
driving, and then I was like, Ohmy God, I never want to be this
drunk. And that's when the cocaine
started. Stimulants, so I didn't want to
(12:28):
be that drunk person, but I still wanted to go out.
So I graduated, you know, like it was wasn't it was pretty tame
in university, honestly, becauseit was expensive and I was
couldn't afford it. I think we did like more Molly
than anything else. But I graduated with honours,
you know, I did everything I wassupposed to do.
So I didn't see really anything as a problem.
And and the DUI was definitely aproblem, but every all the other
(12:49):
times I was just doing what everyone else is doing.
So I wouldn't say it was catastrophic behaviour, but it
was in 2013, one of my parents got a divorce and it was really
hard on the family. That's when I was living in
Toronto. I had my own business that I was
on my own schedule. And quite frankly, I was pretty.
I was drinking everyday. Like I lived in Liberty Village
and trying to kind of cope from this thing that's going on, but
(13:11):
also putting my energy somewhere, right?
And big cities are very easy places to hide addiction.
So no one cares how many drinks you have.
Who knows, right? And cocaine's nothing.
It's like, oh, let's do right. It's not like you're going off
and hiding doing it. It's.
Yeah, everyone's like a lot. I used to think everyone was
doing it, but a lot of turns outa lot of people don't.
But I mean, the people you startto hang out with, it's just,
(13:34):
yeah, it becomes a norm, right? And I, I don't, I don't know
about you, but I always looked for, you know, I've heard the
term lower companions. I don't really like that term,
but like people that were quote UN quote worse than I was
because it made me feel better about how bad I was and where I
was at. So people that maybe had
professions that were not as good as I was, quote, UN quote,
right. Or people that were doing harder
(13:56):
drugs than me. And yeah, you start to frequent.
I love that. It's like in a big city, it is
really easy to kind of just blend in and hide and you start
ending up, I mean, at least for me, like I was started finding
out these new after hours and booze cans and places where you
could do drugs openly in, in establishments.
And I loved it. Like I thought it was amazing
that all these people were, you know, headed down the same path
(14:19):
as me, 'cause I knew same thing like you.
I knew it was not good for me, Iknew it wasn't sustainable, but
I couldn't get out of it for. So long like I need it to be
extreme, whether it's a behavioror a consequence.
Yeah, black or white? Yeah, all in.
And I mean, I think that's what ultimately leads you to
entrepreneurialship. And so do you want to talk
about, like, the journey betweengetting help, maybe going into,
(14:42):
like, how did you end up in prison?
I end up in prison because when I was going through all the
stuff with my family, I met someone through my work who was
sober and had gone through it before.
We did some business together. We were pretty close.
Like you'll see some people say I was your boyfriend.
He wasn't that like we were justvery close.
We had this love for each other,but it wasn't like this big
sexual thing. So I don't know where people got
that term boyfriend because I think in my legal paper will
(15:02):
work. That's what they decided he was
to me when he wasn't. So anyway, we go on this trip
and then three days into the trip, he's like to do really
things. This is all fun and games.
We're here to work. And then it all kind of like
came back to me because like a couple days before he just came
over to my apartment and he's like, hey, like I want to take
(15:23):
you on this trip. But there's something I got to
ask him like what he's like, well, do you want to make some
cash or bring drugs back? And I was like, what the fuck?
Like absolutely not. Like I traveled a lot my life.
I lived in Indonesia. I worked for the Ministry of
Affairs, I volunteered all around the world.
And so like, my passport was really valuable to me.
And the sense that someone was thinking that I would do that or
I wanted to do that, I was making money.
I didn't need money, so I was sopissed.
(15:46):
So I was like just cute get like, and it came to me as a
shock because this this person that was sober, that was like
helping me do like little thingslike walk my dog.
It was like those little things,all these big grandiose
gestures, but things to help youlike just get to the next day.
Like how did this even come up? Like how did it go from that to
this? And so I was just pissed.
And so we kicked him out and then I go out that night and
(16:08):
he's like, hey, listen, I don't know where that's coming from.
I'm so sorry. Like like, let's just go on a
trip and nothing weird hop. And I was like, you know what, I
believed him. I took that one bad thing that
happened that day, that weird thing.
But I then I like reminded myself of all the good things
that he did. So I was like, OK, I believed
him. And so like there was that
question that was proposed to meearlier.
It's not like I went down there and there was no talk about it.
Like he had asked me prior and Iwas just mortified and mad.
(16:32):
And then but when he asked me like he knew that I was going
out that night. So he's like, oh, she'll got a
couple, couple drinks in her andbe like, yeah, OK, dress it
like, and then three days in, I have to get in the car, go to
this house, got bricks and bricks, cocaine in the walls.
It's like strapped to my body and I have to wear this really
ugly ass dress. It's like the covers is the
drugs, looks like a Kleenex box.It's shoved under my dress.
(16:56):
And obviously he's like, yeah, I'm in a lot of debt, these
people. So I guess when he booked the
tickets, he sent my passport info alongside his 'cause he
owed money to these cartel people or whoever they were.
So I just want to go home like Iwas.
I was not a good gangster, obviously.
So I just wanted to go home. And when we got questioned at
the border, the last question they asked me was like, we're
(17:18):
going to do a physical search onyou.
So I had to say yes or else I'm not going to lie to a federal
agent. And then that landed me four
years in federal prison. So again, owning, owning your
shit. Why do you think they asked you
to search like? That's not normal, right?
Well our body language is way off #2 they're actually tracking
him. So he had done this trip
multiple times and they're like who?
(17:40):
Cause like he had a wife too so they're like that's not his
wife. He or like an ex-wife or
something. Like I guess they were like
separated. I don't know.
Didn't add up though. Nothing added up.
But so then after I got arrested, it was 2 1/2 years on
house arrest and really coming to terms with how like my
substances had got me there. I mean, I everything else was
(18:04):
kind of a surprise, but I knew that I had to address something
like it was like, come on, Like I'm not blaming this guy.
I'm not blaming the system. I blamed him for a bit.
I was mad. But then I was like, no one's
going to fix this but you. And it was really fucking
annoying just sitting in emotional anguish for a year and
a half 'cause that wasn't me. So that was like weed was taking
away my personality being in that state.
(18:26):
Yeah, they always say resentmentis like drinking poison and
hoping the other person dies, right?
Like every day, I'm just. Never heard that that one.
That's a good one. Yeah.
It's like I'm festering over this every single day.
And the guy's probably not even thinking about it, right?
You know, he's not thinking about my resentment or whatever.
Maybe he is, but he's renting space in my head and I'm the
only one suffering. I always tell people it's like,
And trust me, I'm a hypocrite. Like I when I get resentments, I
(18:48):
forget that quickly. And it's like, oh, don't you
like. And it's all ego, right?
Like it's all you versus me. I'm right, you're wrong.
But it's it's yeah, it's I I love what you said.
It's like you. It takes away your personality
because all you're thinking about is the resentment.
And I always relate it back to it's like being a drug addict,
too. All you're thinking about is
getting drugs, doing drugs, you know, acquiring money to get the
(19:11):
drugs. Then you're thinking about how
I'm going to survive tomorrow with more drugs.
And it's like this, how can you be yourself when you're in that
state of constant planning and, and premeditation, right, 'cause
I mean, it's very similar. It's like all I'm thinking about
is how I'm gonna get this guy back, how I'm gonna, you know,
win, how I'm gonna succeed, how I'm gonna whatever.
So I can completely relate to that.
(19:32):
So what did he ended up getting?House arrest.
He got same amount of time as me, 'cause our lawyers like just
separated the case and I'm not, I'm not gonna testify against
him. Pretty obviously I brought these
drugs over this border. I'm not gonna testify against
the people that he knows, 'cause.
I don't even. Know what's true?
My poor family, they're innocentvictims.
Like I had to drain my savings. I had some savings, but I still,
they still had to help me. And so they were just like
(19:54):
Emily, like this is this is kindof like the last straw.
I'm like, good on them, right? Because if they didn't say that,
if they didn't give me that, that ultimatum, you know, maybe
I wouldn't have taken it seriously.
Yeah, because I did. So you go to prison.
What was that like? Prison was like, honestly, I was
ready for it because I saw, I kind of began to reframe prison
(20:16):
as not just not prison, but likea form of freedom, you know,
somewhere where I was like a number one.
It's like rehab, which I definitely needed is I was going
to see it as educational becauseI could read as many books as I
wanted and I took advantage of the library system.
And I also saw it as a way to like also like get it like in my
(20:36):
own business degree, like I start to build this idea of this
business inside. So it's like I went to Business
School, rehab and took a sabbatical.
At the same time, I'm not going to spend 50 grand on legal fees
and have it amount to nothing, right?
So I was like, I saw this as an investment and that was after
like being mad for a. Year, I was going to say like
that doesn't come right away. No, I had to be mad for a good
year and a half. I breached my bail, got caught
getting cigarettes, like just kicking and screaming.
(20:59):
And then it was just like, my lawyer was like, Emily, we know
that you're a good person, but if you just don't follow these
rules, like we can't prove that.So that was kind of like the
turning point. And that's when I was like, all
right, I started to research where I was going.
I end up meeting a few people bychance that had been to the same
prison I was going to like just through volunteering and saw
these things happen. Like, you go to volunteer
somewhere and then you just happen to meet someone that had
(21:20):
been to prison for the exact same thing.
It's a kind of how like the world works.
It's crazy. And so I was ready.
I mean, the universe, God, whatever you want to call it,
kind of throws people in your life, right?
And you can either pick it up the signs, or you can ignore it
completely. Yeah, yeah.
Interesting. So you're in there.
Did you get? Did you have to you had to serve
the full thing or did you get? I served it and so I did like
(21:44):
the Canadian prison system. If you are a good inmate, which
I was like, I'm getting out of here, then you are eligible for
day parole after 1-6 year sentence, right?
So that's a halfway house. You're eligible for full parole
after 1/3 and that is living on your own basically.
So because I had no violent history, all I was good in
prison. Nothing happened.
Like I didn't do drugs in prisonlike IA lot of people.
(22:06):
And I, I, I have my family and my friends to, to thank for
this. Because if you don't have
support in there, it's very hardto find motivation to to change,
right. But even the people in prison
that I was in there with were like, great.
So that's the one who I advocatefor everyday, I think, if not
these menaces and the majority of people in prison are majority
of women in prison are moms, right?
And they get caught up. So yeah, served it all, but in
(22:28):
different ways, yeah. That's awesome.
I mean, it's, it's amazing to hear that you were able to shift
your perspective like that. I think a lot of people need to
hear that that's possible because, yeah, like you said at
the beginning, everyone's going through shit, right?
Like, there's people out there right now in prison that maybe
they just made a mistake, right?Like one mistake in their life
and they end up, you know, paying the price.
(22:50):
I've been to prison only once and it was on the other side as
of today. In in the US, no.
Here. Oh, what's what's?
The other side, it was a jail. Like I I brought in, I
volunteered there too. Yeah, I meant like the.
Yeah, that's. The other side of the border.
Yeah, I know. I so like the other side of the
person. And so I, I was able to sort of
(23:12):
see and sit down with these guys.
And I think it really does shiftyour perspective on people,
right? And like prison inmates and
yeah, it's, it's true. Like there's a lot of them that
want to change. And they, the guys that I was
sitting down with had a problem with alcohol and they wanted to
get sober. And it was just amazing to sit
beside these guys and hear how they were changing their life or
(23:34):
planning to and they were staying sober and doing all
these things. Because you mentioned it's
pretty easy to use drugs and alcohol in prison if you wanted
to. Right?
Yeah. Did you find that that that was
a challenge to stay sober through that?
No, because I was done. I was like, I'm and that was
like where my rebelliousness kicked in again, because it's
like people think it's going to be the end.
So it's like you can take your rebelliousness and your need for
prevention turn into something really good or really bad.
(23:56):
Yeah. So it's.
But it's harnessing that same energy, right?
So I was like, no one's going totell me what the rest of my life
is going to be. I am going to do this.
I also didn't necessarily see myself, I think like maybe not
until recently that I really wasn't an addict.
I just medicated instead of celebrated.
So like, that's when I was OK, Ican like have a couple drinks.
I definitely don't. But you can't put yourself in
(24:18):
environment where there's like piles of cocaine because what
are you going to do in that environment?
But I can go out to a restaurantand have a couple drinks and be
fine. Like I'm not going to go into
this like downward spiral. That's when people are like, Oh,
you're an addict for the rest ofyour life.
And I was like, well, I don't, Inever really saw that.
And that's actually been a sign of strength for me, a source of
strength for me because like I didn't give up that control.
But some everyone's different, right?
Like my a lot of people I know like they can't.
(24:39):
It has to be one or the other, feast or famine basically.
Yeah, that's me. I've tried many times to
moderate and try backdoors, as Imentioned at the beginning of
the podcast. And now I'm at a point where you
can't. It's just like it just take.
It just took me down. Like every time it took me down
a road I never saw like I didn'teven know existed, right?
Like it just again, new drugs, hanging out with different
(25:02):
people that I shouldn't have been hanging out with.
And then ultimately, at the end of the day, when all is said and
done, everyone goes home, I'm left with me and I just hate
myself, right? Like, forget about all the
outside circumstances. What's going on in here When I
relapsed was just the word because too, like I saw how good
life could be sober and completely sober.
And then I saw how bad, you know, hanging out with the devil
(25:23):
every night. And I always say that it's true.
Like I literally felt like I washanging out with.
The devil dance with the OR whatis that?
You make a deal with the devil and they always come back to
collect. Yeah, Yeah, He came back all
right. Yeah, but yeah, so it's like,
and, and I'm that's why I'm really happy that you came on
too, because it's it's, it doesn't have to be about
complete abstinence for everybody.
Like everyone's path is different.
When I came into recovery, I wasthe guy that was like, Nope,
(25:44):
you're either in or out. Like I was very hard headed
about that because again, I havethis thing where I think that
what works for me works for everyone else and you have to
follow my plan. It's all ego, right?
I've come a long way since then.And when I started this podcast,
I really met a lot of people that don't follow the same path
that I follow and they're happy.So who The Who the fuck am I to
tell them that has to do they have to recover my way, right?
(26:07):
It's like whatever works for youworks for you.
And then I started, I started now working with guys and
coaching and, and therapy and going back to school and all
these things. And I don't, I try not to come
out the gate with, you know, yougot to do 12 step.
You got to do that. You got to because like, first
of all, that makes people run the fuck away because they don't
like being told what to do. And also that might not work for
them. Yeah, it might.
(26:27):
It might, it might not. It works for me and I run.
Your own race, as they say. So how did you get into your
business that you have now and how did that happen?
I see you getting. So that makes me happy because,
like I can tell, passion is awesome.
So when I was in prison, I met so many people that were just
like me, like people that have made mistakes, were so
misunderstood. Some of it might have been
(26:47):
financial reasons, some of it might have been like substance
abuse issues. Some of it might have been
violence fraud. A lot of it was fraud, actually.
But everyone that I met in thererealized that they did something
wrong with the people that didn't there.
There's also so much mental illness, unfortunately, where
people are just housed together who shouldn't even be in there.
But we all like talked about like the things that we did
(27:08):
before prison and the jobs that we had and the passions that we
had. But how the workforce or like
the corporate world still condemns you as a person when
you're done your time, right? It doesn't matter if you did
your time. You're still, oh, we have a
record. You can't, you're not
employable. And I was like, I just didn't
believe that because I was like,I know that I'm working my ass
off to prove to myself and otherpeople that, you know, this is
never happening again. But also taking accountability,
(27:30):
responsibility and seeing how I not, not not just how I can
learn, but also how others how what others are teaching me.
I learned from so many other people in there as well.
And I also became very grateful for like the family that I did
have. And I was like, you know what
popcorn was a popular prison snack.
Like we'd all make, right? Like different recipes, which
food like we cooked a lot of ourown food 'cause I was in medium,
(27:53):
'cause I wasn't violent. And yeah, we just talk about
stories from home. And so home create creat
creating over food. Food is like a blank canvas for
storytelling and, and connectingand really unifying everybody.
So back to the popcorn is it's been one, one of my favorite
snacks cause part of my addiction, like I don't say
addictive, whatever it was part of my substance use was
(28:15):
triggered actually by food issues is concurrent.
And so I was in prison. I didn't want the food thing to
come back up again. So I.
Mean like not eating eating. Disorder.
Yeah, 'cause. I didn't want I I dabbled with
that too. Yeah, and I was like, this is
not, I'm not relapsing in here. I am not 'cause that controlled
me for 10 fucking years. And I was like, no.
So like I made sure that I ate like healthy stuff.
(28:36):
I exercise, which was awesome. And that was so I healed my
relationship with food while I was inside.
And then I was like, why don't Istart a popcorn company where I
can employ people have, like, really interesting flavors with
an interesting mission. And that's to employ formerly
incarcerated. And that's what it started with
popcorn kernels and stamps. And I would write letters.
I read 82 books. We all told, like, told like our
(28:57):
own stories. And that's when I was like,
yeah, I want to prove everyone else wrong and prove ourselves
right. And it's going to be hard, but
here we are. What's and so the name of the
company is Comeback Snacks. And So what does your operation
now look like? Like what is what is it?
What does that look like? We're in 1500 stores across the
country. We didn't take investment for
the first three years, so I bootstrapped all of it.
(29:19):
But it's all because I worked with the community, I worked
with the volunteers, I went to the churches, like I, I
practiced my like storytelling at schools and different places.
So building up this network. And then I also shared it with
the local paper, which then it was picked up by the Toronto
Star. And of course I knew I was going
to take some heat. Like there's going to be people
that are just nasty. But at that point it didn't even
(29:40):
phase me because I was like, I talk like that to myself.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I talked worse to myself.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And.
And then also like in the system, like the prison guards
are nice to you, like they treatlike crap, you know, so it's
like you're already used to kindof this.
It just fuels your fire. I hate that quote.
Haters are my motivators. But it's, it is kind of true.
(30:00):
Like you don't want, you don't focus on them like they're your
motivators. Like again, like that revenge,
kind of like control. But you're just like, all right,
fine, that's what you think thensee you later.
And so, yeah, we're, we have 5 flavors and I've employed 15
people over the course of like 5years that have all been
incarcerated. So yeah, wow.
(30:21):
And so you said 1500 stores. Yeah.
Oh my God, I know. That's amazing.
Where do you see it in the future?
Like, where do you want to bringit?
What's What's the next thing? Continue to grow in Canada.
So we're just kind of tapping into different channels that we
never really imagined ourselves in, like like office snacks.
We're in a lot of arenas. We't in Scotiabank Arena, we're
(30:42):
in Rogers Center Bud Stage. I'm working a lot with like
fundraising divisions, grocery, gas and convenience hotels or
big one wineries, breweries, beer and popcorn go well
together and like just events aswell.
So building that up the states, the time will come, but just not
right now. Just more spread across Canada.
(31:04):
Yeah, for obvious reasons. Yeah, you.
Can't go there anyway, yeah. Oh man, that's amazing.
If you, if you could go back andsort of like change it all and
and not take the path that you can, whether it's addiction, you
(31:24):
know, pick, pick a life where itwas like not involved with
addiction. Do you think you would you would
take that life? I don't I even, I don't even
know how to answer that because you're only born, you're only
born once. So how could I like so I think
it's just in my genes, like it'smy energy.
Like I read all about a lot of entrepreneurs and creatives that
(31:45):
kind of have these similar habits.
So if I was to take a different path, I'd have to be born a
completely different person and I wouldn't want to be born a
different person, right? So if this where it took me,
that's where it took me. But because of like the way that
we are wired to kind of get in and get ourselves into
situations about our ability to get ourselves out.
I don't think I'd choose any other life, but I would take
(32:07):
back like all the times that I hurt my family because they were
innocent victims in that case, for sure.
That's what you know, that's what I worked so hard to, to fix
and to heal. And you know, we're on great,
great terms now. But again, it's not overnight.
It's not takes a long time and it has to be a repeated
behavior. Yeah, trust is built in small
(32:27):
moments, right? Like overtime.
Trust is time essentially. And it yeah, we get sober and or
we get back to whatever come back, we come back and we're.
See what you did there? Yeah.
Like that, really. I'm thinking of the name of the
episode in my head as I talk. It's gotta be something amazing,
but I'll figure it out. And we expect everyone to be
(32:48):
healed, right? Or like I'm healed because I
spent all this time in prison orwhatever and you come back and
it's not the case. Like people need their own time,
right? They need their own healing
path. Like we talked about before.
I think that's one of the hardest things that addicts have
to accept is that I can't just like you, mom couldn't stop me
using and drinking, I can't healyou, right?
(33:09):
It's kind of like this two way thing and it's really hard to
accept. You know, I talked to a lot of
parents for my job that are trying to get their their loved
ones into into treatment. And you can really tell pretty
quickly, like how far along the acceptance, I don't know,
ladder. They kind of are with it all and
trying to tell people the hard, the hardest part of my job with
(33:31):
talking to loved ones is tellingpeople that they can seek help
themselves. Well, why do I have to fucking
change, right? He's the one using and drinking
like it's not my problem. It's their it's like, no, no,
you play a part in this whole family dynamic.
You know, you didn't, you didn'tcause the addiction, you didn't
cause the jail. You didn't.
No, I'm not saying that, but there's a part here where you
(33:53):
either enabled or or did something along the way.
And now there's a part for you to heal too, right, and get your
own sort of healing. So.
Because again, you can't fix anyone.
Absolutely. Like, and I know for me, just
for my chemical healing, I guessfrom it's because I'll admit,
like before I went to prison, I went on a Bender, You know what
I mean? Like, yeah, the last bang.
(34:14):
Yeah, yeah. So I was like, I knew that I
needed, if I went in for a month, it wouldn't have helped.
I, I knew that I needed at leasta year to completely recalibrate
my brain and my thought process and all about thinking
chemically and like mentally, mentally, right?
So that's why I was glad that I was in for that amount of time.
If I was in for like 3 months, Iwould have been a little bit
more nervous because I'm like, Iwould just, I think if it was
(34:35):
three months, I still would havebeen thinking, what am I going
to do when I get out? I'm not like what can I do now?
Whereas I knew that I was in forat least a year.
It's like what can I do now instead of when am I getting
out? What do you do today when when
life sort of lifes you like? How do you get through struggles
today? Is it easier do you think
because of what you went throughor?
I think you have to allow yourself to be sad.
(34:56):
The last time I didn't allow myself to be sad, you know,
because I was, had this business, I was just trying to
focus on like what I was doing and, and being like a successful
business owner and like just notwanted to compartmentalize
anything. And so like now it's like, OK,
you can compartmentalize, put something over here, be sad
about it and that's OK. Like you can't dwell on it, but
(35:17):
you also have to like allow yourself to feel things.
Whereas before I didn't. I was like, cocaine was Botox
for the soul. Botox for the soul.
Yeah. Wow.
It's almost like yeah, it just completely numbs it like
whatever, it's a quick fix or whatever.
I like that. That's good.
(35:42):
If you could, if you could say something.
Sorry, I want to say one more thing before I ask you the last
question because I just remembered it now.
But I find that, yeah, like, I, that really hit me actually
today, like allow yourself to besad because I've spent a lot of
time not doing that. I, you know, I'll what what
happens to me is life will happen.
Something will happen. And I want to fix it right away.
(36:05):
And I want to jump into whateverI need to do to please whatever
I want people please or do this,that it's like, no, like, yeah,
you need to take a second and just like, acknowledge that
you're human and you're allowed to feel feelings and it's OK.
But you don't have to dwell in it.
Like you said. How do you get out of that,
though? Like how do you get from?
I don't know, like what does that process look like?
(36:27):
Well, it starts with anger #1 like first you're mad, you want
revenge, then you. I just was tired of being sad.
I was like, I only have one life.
I don't want to be like this. I hated feeling like that, but I
knew it was necessary. I know it is necessary.
Like, obviously if you have a shit couple days and, you know,
(36:49):
you have to let yourself feel that and make sure you're around
the right people because some people will tell you to do the
complete thing that's actually not good for you, right?
Like sometimes I told the wrong people when I was sad about
like, that. My family's splitting up.
They're like, well, aren't you old enough?
You know? And it's just like, so I wasn't
allowed to be sad. Yeah.
Yeah, Right. And so I was like, well, fuck
you then. Yeah, it's true.
Yeah. And a lot of those problems come
(37:10):
from childhood when, you know, if you cry like being a a boy
growing up in Italian European household, there was a lot of
times where it was like, like, yeah, you don't really show
emotions. And that ends up affecting you
down the road where you're not able to show emotions anymore.
So I love that. Surround yourself with the right
people. Yeah.
And sometimes it's gonna take a while to figure out.
Sometimes you're gonna surround yourself with the wrong people,
(37:31):
and then you learn. Yeah.
And so you're more cautious and you're more careful.
And that's also a part of learning.
Yeah. And.
You know what to look. For and you'll know when you're
tired of being sad, you'll know you'll be like, screw this, like
I'm over it now. Then you gotta, you gotta also
move on and do things like like,I don't know, I love like my
dogs going to the gym, but I don't surround myself with
people when I'm going through the sad face that are going to
(37:52):
make me angry. Go take me back a step, because
that's the first step, I think. Right.
Or gossip. Or, you know, yes, people,
right, The people. Yeah, yeah, you should beat that
guy. Up exactly.
Yeah, that. Was dangerous place to be let's
end with this if you could say something to someone who is
start trying to start a new venture or company or dream goal
(38:15):
passion and they're really struggling right now what do you
say to that person give. Me a call, I'll help them.
Love it. Yeah, honestly, call me.
I'm. I'm here to help and I had a lot
of help building mine. You know, everyone person that I
wrote a letter to like that's how I built my mentorship
network. So I'm here to help.
Yeah, I guess that's it like right.
Having a good mentor. Yeah, have a good mentor and
(38:37):
then if I can help you, I'll, I'll introduce you to someone
who can because I obviously don't know everything.
Amazing. Yeah, I love that too.
There's a bit of humility there,too.
Where can we find you, Emily? Where can we find?
Popcorn or me? Me.
Do you? Have like social media like.
Yeah, at Comeback Snacks is a company one, but my personal one
where I share more of my own journey is EMS dot O'Brien.
OK. And I'll write that in the notes
(38:58):
too, so people can follow along too.
Yeah. Awesome.
Thank you so much for coming I. Appreciate for having me had a.
Great time. Yes, and now you know that the
the Marshall amp. It's a fridge.
Yeah, the Marshall amp is a fridge and I'm going to use it
going forward. Yeah, for non alcoholic
beverages and and etcetera. Thanks for listening.
Please help us grow the channel and like, share and subscribe
(39:21):
for more content. The discussions and stories
shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational
purposes only. This content is not a substitute
for professional medical advice,addiction treatment or therapy.
If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction,
please consult A licensed physician, addiction specialist
or mental health professional. You are no longer alone.
Nothing added up. But so then after I got
arrested, it was 2 1/2 years on house arrest and really coming
to terms with how like my substances had got me there.
I mean, I everything else was kind of a surprise, but I knew
that I had to address something like it was like, come on, Like
I'm not blaming this guy. I'm not blaming the system.
I blamed him for a bit. I was mad.
(00:21):
But then I was like, no one's going to fix this but you.
And it was really fucking annoying just sitting in
emotional anguish for a year anda half because that wasn't me.
So that was like weed was takingaway my personality being in
that state. Yeah, they always say resentment
is like drinking poison and hoping the other person dies,
right? Like, hi there, welcome back or
welcome to Recovering Out Loud podcast, the show where we get
(00:44):
real about mental health and addiction.
I'm so glad you're here. If you or someone you love is
struggling with drugs or alcohol, please reach out for
help. Send me a message on all social
media platforms at Recovering Out Loud Pod or by e-mail at
recoveringoutloudpod@gmail.com. You are no longer alone.
(01:21):
What motivated me to start the podcast?
You know, actually, I actually love when people ask me
questions. Come on here because, you know,
you have to do a lot of listening when you start up.
So I learned something. If you like talking, don't start
a podcast because it's all aboutlistening, right?
I love to talk. So I've learned to really listen
through this journey and like, really pay attention to, I don't
(01:44):
know, I guess feelings in what people are talking about and
like how I can relate because your story, as we'll find out,
is clearly a lot different than mine.
But I guarantee you, you're going to say things today that
I'm like, oh, yeah, like, I get that.
I get that feeling. I get that.
Like, that makes sense to me, right.
And then centered around, you know, consequences and drugs and
(02:05):
the consequences of drugs and the consequences of my actions
and stuff like. That right on drugs.
Yeah, exactly. And I always, you know, I will
answer your question, I promise.But I like to talk.
I I always say this is like someone, you know, when someone
ever says to me, like, man, it'snot fair, you know, like it's
not fair. Life's not fair.
I had a counselor once say to meif life was fair, we would all
(02:27):
be dead or in jail, right? Like right now.
And it's true because my actions, like if you look at my
life on paper, I should have been dead many times.
I should have been in jail many times.
But I don't know why for some reason I managed to today get
through that without the consequences like that tomorrow
if I pick up, I don't know. I don't know what'll happen.
I'll probably end up somewhere else.
(02:49):
So to answer your question, whatstarted me, I, I was in
treatment this last time in January, 3rd time in treatment
and I was again on my knees. Like just drugs had brought me
and myself had brought me to a place where I was like, how the
fuck did I get here? How did I like, how did I get
here? I had eight years clean and
(03:10):
sober, almost eight years. And I chose to take my will back
and do things my way. And you know, ADHD medication is
the one thing that I can control.
Like that was my thought pattern, right?
Like, I'm gonna do this differently.
I'm going to fix this, I'm goingto fix it and I'm going to do it
properly this time. I'm going to take it as
prescribed. And we probably both know how
that ends up. Like, no, I'm and then before I
(03:32):
know it, I'm doing new drugs, I'm doing benzos, I'm smoking
meths, doing all these things. So I'm in treatment this last
time. And there's this guy in there.
I love him to death. Will he had a podcast and he's
talking about how much he loves it.
And I'm like, man, I've always wanted to do that.
And he's like, do it like straight, like didn't even fuck
around. He's like, you should do it.
And that gave me a little bit ofhope because we would watch his
(03:54):
on YouTube and and I was like, man, like I could do this right.
And I love listen well, I love talking.
I thought that it was going to be about that.
But I also love hearing people'sstories.
And I love podcasts. Like I really love podcasts.
I listen to the. You have a good podcast voice
too. Thanks.
You, you have to get over that first, Like same with social
media, but you have to get over the initial like cringiness of
(04:15):
your own voice, right? And then you notice.
It's like, oh I know I recorded 2 songs in prison.
Like I wrote and recorded 2 songs as part of the music
program. What kind of music?
It was just like pop songs. Like one of them, one of them
was like a ballad. Like with this whole music
program, they had a professionalcome in and teach you how to do
music. And then I like listen to my
songs. I was like, you get like the ick
and. Then you're never again, right?
(04:36):
Oh, man. I'm gonna ask you something,
Emily. Thank you for coming down, by
the way. I appreciate it.
Welcome to Recovering Out Loud. If you, if, if somebody could
get what do you want people to get out of your story?
Like what? What do you hope that people get
out of your story? That anyone can come back from
any horrible situation in their life if they just take ownership
(04:56):
of it. So many times people just want
to take the victim mentality andblame everyone else.
And yeah, you know, I did that in the beginning, but that
doesn't get you very far at all.So you don't have to go to
prison to necessarily make a comeback.
And you're going to have to makemore than one comeback in your
life. I'm just like waiting for my
next thing that like at least I know that I have now I have the
the tools and the skill set to be able to kind of get out of
(05:17):
that, even if it takes a long time.
You know, we go through things every year, almost every week
that are hard to get out of. But the second kind of build a
foundation of like knowing how to get out of it.
And sometimes you can't rush a comeback takes time, right?
So. This like resilience, right?
Yeah, because I don't like that word.
It's like, so I don't know, I just feel like it's so I guess I
haven't had a word. Yeah.
(05:37):
OK, OK. Like.
It's like rah rah rah for me, like.
Healing or I'm trying to think. It's cutting the bullshit.
Yeah, yeah, cutting the bullshit.
Own your shit, cut the bullshit,own your shit and move on.
And then try to help others at the same time.
And I guess that's kind of like how you build resiliency.
It's not just a, it's a great word for like a lot of people.
It's just not a word for me so. I I totally understand, yeah.
(06:03):
I want to talk about, like, whatwas your childhood like?
Do you want to talk about a little bit about what growing up
was like in your house and your experiences?
I had a bowl cut so. Great start.
What were the 90s? 90s.
Bowl cut. Yeah, honestly, great, great
parents. Two.
I was a middle child of three daughters.
We're all three years apart. Pretty close family.
(06:23):
You know, we did all the normal things, went to church.
Church was part of our life. Although I didn't behave very
well in church, my dad had to incentivize us with timbits for
good behavior. I started learning more about
the lessons of church like when I was like a little bit older,
but we did all that. I was in like a lot of clubs
past played a lot of sports because I had a lot of energy
and I was always a learner. And then elementary school was
(06:43):
kind of where like people started being mean to me.
And so I kind of just became an introvert.
I mean, everyone goes like it could be like, oh, I was Billy.
That's why I went to prison. No, like it's crap.
So like everyone goes through shitty experiences as a
childhood child is childhood is just childhood.
You know? Some like, I guess for me,
(07:04):
becoming an introvert and like and then also not knowing how to
socialize kind of led to my druguse though for sure 'cause I
don't know how to talk. So in high school I was like,
well I'm just going to get a Colt 45 and 2 Zig Zags.
Baby, that's all I need. Yeah.
Oh, man. So what?
What do you think that like, do you want to explain a little bit
more about what the alcohol and drugs did for you in the
(07:25):
beginning? In the beginning, it was the key
to socialization, the key to meeting people.
I was pretty shy, you know, and I did feel like kind of a bit of
an outcast and then the like kind of the I did a lot of
heavy. Well, grade 9, I wouldn't say I
did heavy drugs. I smoked weed.
I didn't even like weed. I don't know why I.
Smoked it, I was. Like what am I doing?
(07:46):
I'm like greening out at school like and and it didn't, it made
me the opposite of like what I wanted to be like.
It just made me more awkward. Yeah, I never liked weed and I
never heard it said said this, but it's so true.
Said like this. Like I always hated weed because
it like took away my personalitycompletely.
And I was like, yes, that that was me too.
Right, Yeah. Whereas alcohol, it brought it
out a little bit more and then cocaine just helped me stay out
(08:10):
like a little bit later. And MDMA I really liked in high
school, but then I was like obviously acting out and my
parents were sick of it. I was, I went from like being a
really nice kid, you know, I wasvery friendly.
I was really happy. I, I was always planting trees
and like volunteering, like, youknow, just generally happy.
But then it was kind of those troubling years and later, later
on, on an elementary school and then high school that I know
(08:32):
some would say it's pretty normal teenage things, but
obviously I took it a bit too far.
Yeah. And so like what happened?
What was the moment where it it went too far and and you kind of
needed to make a change or realized that it wasn't working
for you anymore? Well, I knew that in high school
I had this little tactic. It was called strategic
procrastination. So I.
(08:53):
Knew that. Go on, I love this.
So I knew that if I, even if I got like crap grades in grade
9:00 and 10:00, as long as I gotgood grades in grade 11:00 and
12:00, I could get into university.
And so I knew that when I want to turn it off, I could turn it
off and turn it back on again. And that's exactly what I did.
I got into the University of Guelph.
I want to go in for business. My, my math grades weren't good
(09:15):
enough because I didn't want to take calculus like it was, I
just didn't want to take it. I was like, screw it.
And then I couldn't get it. I also loved like nutrition and
stuff. So I was always into like
exercise and fitness and all that, but then my chemistry
wasn't good enough. Despite the fact that I had this
like really nerdy guy that I gotto do my homework, I still.
Classic sounds like Mean Girls. Who's actually really, really
(09:36):
nice. So I ran into him like on the
bus like a couple years ago and I was like, thanks.
For doing all my. Homework.
Yeah, it was great. It was very nice dissecting pigs
and all that stuff. Oh no, I think it was biology.
That was grade 11. That was different classes I.
Remember that? But yeah, so then in grade
eleven, grade 12, I just got my grades up, went to university.
(09:56):
So I think the turning point number one for me was actually
in university when I got a DUI. Like I was drinking, driving,
and I couldn't figure out how tostop.
I didn't know why I couldn't stop.
And I deliberately drank and drove in front of like a police
officer so that I'd get pulled over so I could stop.
It's like I sabotage myself. I'm getting goosebumps as you
say that. Sorry to cut you off, but like,
it's, it's 'cause that happened to me too with benzos, where I
(10:19):
would do benzos, get in the car and then I would go to my
parents' house for no reason. And I today I see it as like a
subtle cry for help kind of subconsciously, right?
It's like, although I didn't really want to go and get help,
my body and my my soul maybe I don't know, it was like help me,
right? But I don't know how to ask for
help. Yeah.
So if you show up at your parents house high on benzos,
that's a good way to to show that you're hurting.
(10:41):
Yeah. My dad tells me I repeated the
same story like 6 times and there my words like this.
And so yeah, that was that was my thought on it anyways.
Yeah, sorry. Oh no, that's interesting.
You got to talk too, you know. Yeah, I mean.
Conversation. It's.
Not a model. It's about you, Yeah, But yeah.
So you, you purposely. Yeah.
(11:04):
And what happened after? That because I knew that like I
knew that it was wrong and it was bad, but I still want that
booze kicked in. I couldn't stop.
And so I was like, what is it going to take when you get
caught? Because I knew that it was
selfish, but I was still doing like these things for God knows
what reason. Like I don't know, like I just
could not. It's because I had this my
parents car. So I thought it was going to be
cool driving around like I don'tknow, like anyway, so I did the
(11:25):
back on track program and luckily I got caught in the best
way ever. You know, I got pulled over,
plead guilty. No one got hurt and like but why
I chose that tactic when it could have been way worse I
don't know. But after that day, it's like I
never never did it again. What's back on track program?
It was this mandatory program that you had to take like after
you get a DUI. So you can either you everyone
(11:45):
has to take it. But for me, because I was still
in university, I didn't even have a car.
So they're like, oh, you can putthe the breathalyzer in your
car. Oh, yeah, OK for a year.
But the, the program itself was just like a program my dad had
to take me to like sit in a circle and it was like
educational. But then they're like, you can
take the, you can have this thing in your car for a year, or
you can just wait another year after your license has been
(12:06):
suspended and have no thing. So I was like, well, I don't
have a car anyway, so I just took the two year suspension and
it was, yeah. And then so then after that you
did that stop like you're drinking and using and then
like, how did that what what ended up?
Happening. That stopped my drinking and
driving, and then I was like, Ohmy God, I never want to be this
drunk. And that's when the cocaine
started. Stimulants, so I didn't want to
(12:28):
be that drunk person, but I still wanted to go out.
So I graduated, you know, like it was wasn't it was pretty tame
in university, honestly, becauseit was expensive and I was
couldn't afford it. I think we did like more Molly
than anything else. But I graduated with honours,
you know, I did everything I wassupposed to do.
So I didn't see really anything as a problem.
And and the DUI was definitely aproblem, but every all the other
(12:49):
times I was just doing what everyone else is doing.
So I wouldn't say it was catastrophic behaviour, but it
was in 2013, one of my parents got a divorce and it was really
hard on the family. That's when I was living in
Toronto. I had my own business that I was
on my own schedule. And quite frankly, I was pretty.
I was drinking everyday. Like I lived in Liberty Village
and trying to kind of cope from this thing that's going on, but
(13:11):
also putting my energy somewhere, right?
And big cities are very easy places to hide addiction.
So no one cares how many drinks you have.
Who knows, right? And cocaine's nothing.
It's like, oh, let's do right. It's not like you're going off
and hiding doing it. It's.
Yeah, everyone's like a lot. I used to think everyone was
doing it, but a lot of turns outa lot of people don't.
But I mean, the people you startto hang out with, it's just,
(13:34):
yeah, it becomes a norm, right? And I, I don't, I don't know
about you, but I always looked for, you know, I've heard the
term lower companions. I don't really like that term,
but like people that were quote UN quote worse than I was
because it made me feel better about how bad I was and where I
was at. So people that maybe had
professions that were not as good as I was, quote, UN quote,
right. Or people that were doing harder
(13:56):
drugs than me. And yeah, you start to frequent.
I love that. It's like in a big city, it is
really easy to kind of just blend in and hide and you start
ending up, I mean, at least for me, like I was started finding
out these new after hours and booze cans and places where you
could do drugs openly in, in establishments.
And I loved it. Like I thought it was amazing
that all these people were, you know, headed down the same path
(14:19):
as me, 'cause I knew same thing like you.
I knew it was not good for me, Iknew it wasn't sustainable, but
I couldn't get out of it for. So long like I need it to be
extreme, whether it's a behavioror a consequence.
Yeah, black or white? Yeah, all in.
And I mean, I think that's what ultimately leads you to
entrepreneurialship. And so do you want to talk
about, like, the journey betweengetting help, maybe going into,
(14:42):
like, how did you end up in prison?
I end up in prison because when I was going through all the
stuff with my family, I met someone through my work who was
sober and had gone through it before.
We did some business together. We were pretty close.
Like you'll see some people say I was your boyfriend.
He wasn't that like we were justvery close.
We had this love for each other,but it wasn't like this big
sexual thing. So I don't know where people got
that term boyfriend because I think in my legal paper will
(15:02):
work. That's what they decided he was
to me when he wasn't. So anyway, we go on this trip
and then three days into the trip, he's like to do really
things. This is all fun and games.
We're here to work. And then it all kind of like
came back to me because like a couple days before he just came
over to my apartment and he's like, hey, like I want to take
(15:23):
you on this trip. But there's something I got to
ask him like what he's like, well, do you want to make some
cash or bring drugs back? And I was like, what the fuck?
Like absolutely not. Like I traveled a lot my life.
I lived in Indonesia. I worked for the Ministry of
Affairs, I volunteered all around the world.
And so like, my passport was really valuable to me.
And the sense that someone was thinking that I would do that or
I wanted to do that, I was making money.
I didn't need money, so I was sopissed.
(15:46):
So I was like just cute get like, and it came to me as a
shock because this this person that was sober, that was like
helping me do like little thingslike walk my dog.
It was like those little things,all these big grandiose
gestures, but things to help youlike just get to the next day.
Like how did this even come up? Like how did it go from that to
this? And so I was just pissed.
And so we kicked him out and then I go out that night and
(16:08):
he's like, hey, listen, I don't know where that's coming from.
I'm so sorry. Like like, let's just go on a
trip and nothing weird hop. And I was like, you know what, I
believed him. I took that one bad thing that
happened that day, that weird thing.
But I then I like reminded myself of all the good things
that he did. So I was like, OK, I believed
him. And so like there was that
question that was proposed to meearlier.
It's not like I went down there and there was no talk about it.
Like he had asked me prior and Iwas just mortified and mad.
(16:32):
And then but when he asked me like he knew that I was going
out that night. So he's like, oh, she'll got a
couple, couple drinks in her andbe like, yeah, OK, dress it
like, and then three days in, I have to get in the car, go to
this house, got bricks and bricks, cocaine in the walls.
It's like strapped to my body and I have to wear this really
ugly ass dress. It's like the covers is the
drugs, looks like a Kleenex box.It's shoved under my dress.
(16:56):
And obviously he's like, yeah, I'm in a lot of debt, these
people. So I guess when he booked the
tickets, he sent my passport info alongside his 'cause he
owed money to these cartel people or whoever they were.
So I just want to go home like Iwas.
I was not a good gangster, obviously.
So I just wanted to go home. And when we got questioned at
the border, the last question they asked me was like, we're
(17:18):
going to do a physical search onyou.
So I had to say yes or else I'm not going to lie to a federal
agent. And then that landed me four
years in federal prison. So again, owning, owning your
shit. Why do you think they asked you
to search like? That's not normal, right?
Well our body language is way off #2 they're actually tracking
him. So he had done this trip
multiple times and they're like who?
(17:40):
Cause like he had a wife too so they're like that's not his
wife. He or like an ex-wife or
something. Like I guess they were like
separated. I don't know.
Didn't add up though. Nothing added up.
But so then after I got arrested, it was 2 1/2 years on
house arrest and really coming to terms with how like my
substances had got me there. I mean, I everything else was
(18:04):
kind of a surprise, but I knew that I had to address something
like it was like, come on, Like I'm not blaming this guy.
I'm not blaming the system. I blamed him for a bit.
I was mad. But then I was like, no one's
going to fix this but you. And it was really fucking
annoying just sitting in emotional anguish for a year and
a half 'cause that wasn't me. So that was like weed was taking
away my personality being in that state.
(18:26):
Yeah, they always say resentmentis like drinking poison and
hoping the other person dies, right?
Like every day, I'm just. Never heard that that one.
That's a good one. Yeah.
It's like I'm festering over this every single day.
And the guy's probably not even thinking about it, right?
You know, he's not thinking about my resentment or whatever.
Maybe he is, but he's renting space in my head and I'm the
only one suffering. I always tell people it's like,
And trust me, I'm a hypocrite. Like I when I get resentments, I
(18:48):
forget that quickly. And it's like, oh, don't you
like. And it's all ego, right?
Like it's all you versus me. I'm right, you're wrong.
But it's it's yeah, it's I I love what you said.
It's like you. It takes away your personality
because all you're thinking about is the resentment.
And I always relate it back to it's like being a drug addict,
too. All you're thinking about is
getting drugs, doing drugs, you know, acquiring money to get the
(19:11):
drugs. Then you're thinking about how
I'm going to survive tomorrow with more drugs.
And it's like this, how can you be yourself when you're in that
state of constant planning and, and premeditation, right, 'cause
I mean, it's very similar. It's like all I'm thinking about
is how I'm gonna get this guy back, how I'm gonna, you know,
win, how I'm gonna succeed, how I'm gonna whatever.
So I can completely relate to that.
(19:32):
So what did he ended up getting?House arrest.
He got same amount of time as me, 'cause our lawyers like just
separated the case and I'm not, I'm not gonna testify against
him. Pretty obviously I brought these
drugs over this border. I'm not gonna testify against
the people that he knows, 'cause.
I don't even. Know what's true?
My poor family, they're innocentvictims.
Like I had to drain my savings. I had some savings, but I still,
they still had to help me. And so they were just like
(19:54):
Emily, like this is this is kindof like the last straw.
I'm like, good on them, right? Because if they didn't say that,
if they didn't give me that, that ultimatum, you know, maybe
I wouldn't have taken it seriously.
Yeah, because I did. So you go to prison.
What was that like? Prison was like, honestly, I was
ready for it because I saw, I kind of began to reframe prison
(20:16):
as not just not prison, but likea form of freedom, you know,
somewhere where I was like a number one.
It's like rehab, which I definitely needed is I was going
to see it as educational becauseI could read as many books as I
wanted and I took advantage of the library system.
And I also saw it as a way to like also like get it like in my
(20:36):
own business degree, like I start to build this idea of this
business inside. So it's like I went to Business
School, rehab and took a sabbatical.
At the same time, I'm not going to spend 50 grand on legal fees
and have it amount to nothing, right?
So I was like, I saw this as an investment and that was after
like being mad for a. Year, I was going to say like
that doesn't come right away. No, I had to be mad for a good
year and a half. I breached my bail, got caught
getting cigarettes, like just kicking and screaming.
(20:59):
And then it was just like, my lawyer was like, Emily, we know
that you're a good person, but if you just don't follow these
rules, like we can't prove that.So that was kind of like the
turning point. And that's when I was like, all
right, I started to research where I was going.
I end up meeting a few people bychance that had been to the same
prison I was going to like just through volunteering and saw
these things happen. Like, you go to volunteer
somewhere and then you just happen to meet someone that had
(21:20):
been to prison for the exact same thing.
It's a kind of how like the world works.
It's crazy. And so I was ready.
I mean, the universe, God, whatever you want to call it,
kind of throws people in your life, right?
And you can either pick it up the signs, or you can ignore it
completely. Yeah, yeah.
Interesting. So you're in there.
Did you get? Did you have to you had to serve
the full thing or did you get? I served it and so I did like
(21:44):
the Canadian prison system. If you are a good inmate, which
I was like, I'm getting out of here, then you are eligible for
day parole after 1-6 year sentence, right?
So that's a halfway house. You're eligible for full parole
after 1/3 and that is living on your own basically.
So because I had no violent history, all I was good in
prison. Nothing happened.
Like I didn't do drugs in prisonlike IA lot of people.
(22:06):
And I, I, I have my family and my friends to, to thank for
this. Because if you don't have
support in there, it's very hardto find motivation to to change,
right. But even the people in prison
that I was in there with were like, great.
So that's the one who I advocatefor everyday, I think, if not
these menaces and the majority of people in prison are majority
of women in prison are moms, right?
And they get caught up. So yeah, served it all, but in
(22:28):
different ways, yeah. That's awesome.
I mean, it's, it's amazing to hear that you were able to shift
your perspective like that. I think a lot of people need to
hear that that's possible because, yeah, like you said at
the beginning, everyone's going through shit, right?
Like, there's people out there right now in prison that maybe
they just made a mistake, right?Like one mistake in their life
and they end up, you know, paying the price.
(22:50):
I've been to prison only once and it was on the other side as
of today. In in the US, no.
Here. Oh, what's what's?
The other side, it was a jail. Like I I brought in, I
volunteered there too. Yeah, I meant like the.
Yeah, that's. The other side of the border.
Yeah, I know. I so like the other side of the
person. And so I, I was able to sort of
(23:12):
see and sit down with these guys.
And I think it really does shiftyour perspective on people,
right? And like prison inmates and
yeah, it's, it's true. Like there's a lot of them that
want to change. And they, the guys that I was
sitting down with had a problem with alcohol and they wanted to
get sober. And it was just amazing to sit
beside these guys and hear how they were changing their life or
(23:34):
planning to and they were staying sober and doing all
these things. Because you mentioned it's
pretty easy to use drugs and alcohol in prison if you wanted
to. Right?
Yeah. Did you find that that that was
a challenge to stay sober through that?
No, because I was done. I was like, I'm and that was
like where my rebelliousness kicked in again, because it's
like people think it's going to be the end.
So it's like you can take your rebelliousness and your need for
prevention turn into something really good or really bad.
(23:56):
Yeah. So it's.
But it's harnessing that same energy, right?
So I was like, no one's going totell me what the rest of my life
is going to be. I am going to do this.
I also didn't necessarily see myself, I think like maybe not
until recently that I really wasn't an addict.
I just medicated instead of celebrated.
So like, that's when I was OK, Ican like have a couple drinks.
I definitely don't. But you can't put yourself in
(24:18):
environment where there's like piles of cocaine because what
are you going to do in that environment?
But I can go out to a restaurantand have a couple drinks and be
fine. Like I'm not going to go into
this like downward spiral. That's when people are like, Oh,
you're an addict for the rest ofyour life.
And I was like, well, I don't, Inever really saw that.
And that's actually been a sign of strength for me, a source of
strength for me because like I didn't give up that control.
But some everyone's different, right?
Like my a lot of people I know like they can't.
(24:39):
It has to be one or the other, feast or famine basically.
Yeah, that's me. I've tried many times to
moderate and try backdoors, as Imentioned at the beginning of
the podcast. And now I'm at a point where you
can't. It's just like it just take.
It just took me down. Like every time it took me down
a road I never saw like I didn'teven know existed, right?
Like it just again, new drugs, hanging out with different
(25:02):
people that I shouldn't have been hanging out with.
And then ultimately, at the end of the day, when all is said and
done, everyone goes home, I'm left with me and I just hate
myself, right? Like, forget about all the
outside circumstances. What's going on in here When I
relapsed was just the word because too, like I saw how good
life could be sober and completely sober.
And then I saw how bad, you know, hanging out with the devil
(25:23):
every night. And I always say that it's true.
Like I literally felt like I washanging out with.
The devil dance with the OR whatis that?
You make a deal with the devil and they always come back to
collect. Yeah, Yeah, He came back all
right. Yeah, but yeah, so it's like,
and, and I'm that's why I'm really happy that you came on
too, because it's it's, it doesn't have to be about
complete abstinence for everybody.
Like everyone's path is different.
When I came into recovery, I wasthe guy that was like, Nope,
(25:44):
you're either in or out. Like I was very hard headed
about that because again, I havethis thing where I think that
what works for me works for everyone else and you have to
follow my plan. It's all ego, right?
I've come a long way since then.And when I started this podcast,
I really met a lot of people that don't follow the same path
that I follow and they're happy.So who The Who the fuck am I to
tell them that has to do they have to recover my way, right?
(26:07):
It's like whatever works for youworks for you.
And then I started, I started now working with guys and
coaching and, and therapy and going back to school and all
these things. And I don't, I try not to come
out the gate with, you know, yougot to do 12 step.
You got to do that. You got to because like, first
of all, that makes people run the fuck away because they don't
like being told what to do. And also that might not work for
them. Yeah, it might.
(26:27):
It might, it might not. It works for me and I run.
Your own race, as they say. So how did you get into your
business that you have now and how did that happen?
I see you getting. So that makes me happy because,
like I can tell, passion is awesome.
So when I was in prison, I met so many people that were just
like me, like people that have made mistakes, were so
misunderstood. Some of it might have been
(26:47):
financial reasons, some of it might have been like substance
abuse issues. Some of it might have been
violence fraud. A lot of it was fraud, actually.
But everyone that I met in thererealized that they did something
wrong with the people that didn't there.
There's also so much mental illness, unfortunately, where
people are just housed together who shouldn't even be in there.
But we all like talked about like the things that we did
(27:08):
before prison and the jobs that we had and the passions that we
had. But how the workforce or like
the corporate world still condemns you as a person when
you're done your time, right? It doesn't matter if you did
your time. You're still, oh, we have a
record. You can't, you're not
employable. And I was like, I just didn't
believe that because I was like,I know that I'm working my ass
off to prove to myself and otherpeople that, you know, this is
never happening again. But also taking accountability,
(27:30):
responsibility and seeing how I not, not not just how I can
learn, but also how others how what others are teaching me.
I learned from so many other people in there as well.
And I also became very grateful for like the family that I did
have. And I was like, you know what
popcorn was a popular prison snack.
Like we'd all make, right? Like different recipes, which
food like we cooked a lot of ourown food 'cause I was in medium,
(27:53):
'cause I wasn't violent. And yeah, we just talk about
stories from home. And so home create creat
creating over food. Food is like a blank canvas for
storytelling and, and connectingand really unifying everybody.
So back to the popcorn is it's been one, one of my favorite
snacks cause part of my addiction, like I don't say
addictive, whatever it was part of my substance use was
(28:15):
triggered actually by food issues is concurrent.
And so I was in prison. I didn't want the food thing to
come back up again. So I.
Mean like not eating eating. Disorder.
Yeah, 'cause. I didn't want I I dabbled with
that too. Yeah, and I was like, this is
not, I'm not relapsing in here. I am not 'cause that controlled
me for 10 fucking years. And I was like, no.
So like I made sure that I ate like healthy stuff.
(28:36):
I exercise, which was awesome. And that was so I healed my
relationship with food while I was inside.
And then I was like, why don't Istart a popcorn company where I
can employ people have, like, really interesting flavors with
an interesting mission. And that's to employ formerly
incarcerated. And that's what it started with
popcorn kernels and stamps. And I would write letters.
I read 82 books. We all told, like, told like our
(28:57):
own stories. And that's when I was like,
yeah, I want to prove everyone else wrong and prove ourselves
right. And it's going to be hard, but
here we are. What's and so the name of the
company is Comeback Snacks. And So what does your operation
now look like? Like what is what is it?
What does that look like? We're in 1500 stores across the
country. We didn't take investment for
the first three years, so I bootstrapped all of it.
(29:19):
But it's all because I worked with the community, I worked
with the volunteers, I went to the churches, like I, I
practiced my like storytelling at schools and different places.
So building up this network. And then I also shared it with
the local paper, which then it was picked up by the Toronto
Star. And of course I knew I was going
to take some heat. Like there's going to be people
that are just nasty. But at that point it didn't even
(29:40):
phase me because I was like, I talk like that to myself.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I talked worse to myself.
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And.
And then also like in the system, like the prison guards
are nice to you, like they treatlike crap, you know, so it's
like you're already used to kindof this.
It just fuels your fire. I hate that quote.
Haters are my motivators. But it's, it is kind of true.
(30:00):
Like you don't want, you don't focus on them like they're your
motivators. Like again, like that revenge,
kind of like control. But you're just like, all right,
fine, that's what you think thensee you later.
And so, yeah, we're, we have 5 flavors and I've employed 15
people over the course of like 5years that have all been
incarcerated. So yeah, wow.
(30:21):
And so you said 1500 stores. Yeah.
Oh my God, I know. That's amazing.
Where do you see it in the future?
Like, where do you want to bringit?
What's What's the next thing? Continue to grow in Canada.
So we're just kind of tapping into different channels that we
never really imagined ourselves in, like like office snacks.
We're in a lot of arenas. We't in Scotiabank Arena, we're
(30:42):
in Rogers Center Bud Stage. I'm working a lot with like
fundraising divisions, grocery, gas and convenience hotels or
big one wineries, breweries, beer and popcorn go well
together and like just events aswell.
So building that up the states, the time will come, but just not
right now. Just more spread across Canada.
(31:04):
Yeah, for obvious reasons. Yeah, you.
Can't go there anyway, yeah. Oh man, that's amazing.
If you, if you could go back andsort of like change it all and
and not take the path that you can, whether it's addiction, you
(31:24):
know, pick, pick a life where itwas like not involved with
addiction. Do you think you would you would
take that life? I don't I even, I don't even
know how to answer that because you're only born, you're only
born once. So how could I like so I think
it's just in my genes, like it'smy energy.
Like I read all about a lot of entrepreneurs and creatives that
(31:45):
kind of have these similar habits.
So if I was to take a different path, I'd have to be born a
completely different person and I wouldn't want to be born a
different person, right? So if this where it took me,
that's where it took me. But because of like the way that
we are wired to kind of get in and get ourselves into
situations about our ability to get ourselves out.
I don't think I'd choose any other life, but I would take
(32:07):
back like all the times that I hurt my family because they were
innocent victims in that case, for sure.
That's what you know, that's what I worked so hard to, to fix
and to heal. And you know, we're on great,
great terms now. But again, it's not overnight.
It's not takes a long time and it has to be a repeated
behavior. Yeah, trust is built in small
(32:27):
moments, right? Like overtime.
Trust is time essentially. And it yeah, we get sober and or
we get back to whatever come back, we come back and we're.
See what you did there? Yeah.
Like that, really. I'm thinking of the name of the
episode in my head as I talk. It's gotta be something amazing,
but I'll figure it out. And we expect everyone to be
(32:48):
healed, right? Or like I'm healed because I
spent all this time in prison orwhatever and you come back and
it's not the case. Like people need their own time,
right? They need their own healing
path. Like we talked about before.
I think that's one of the hardest things that addicts have
to accept is that I can't just like you, mom couldn't stop me
using and drinking, I can't healyou, right?
(33:09):
It's kind of like this two way thing and it's really hard to
accept. You know, I talked to a lot of
parents for my job that are trying to get their their loved
ones into into treatment. And you can really tell pretty
quickly, like how far along the acceptance, I don't know,
ladder. They kind of are with it all and
trying to tell people the hard, the hardest part of my job with
(33:31):
talking to loved ones is tellingpeople that they can seek help
themselves. Well, why do I have to fucking
change, right? He's the one using and drinking
like it's not my problem. It's their it's like, no, no,
you play a part in this whole family dynamic.
You know, you didn't, you didn'tcause the addiction, you didn't
cause the jail. You didn't.
No, I'm not saying that, but there's a part here where you
(33:53):
either enabled or or did something along the way.
And now there's a part for you to heal too, right, and get your
own sort of healing. So.
Because again, you can't fix anyone.
Absolutely. Like, and I know for me, just
for my chemical healing, I guessfrom it's because I'll admit,
like before I went to prison, I went on a Bender, You know what
I mean? Like, yeah, the last bang.
(34:14):
Yeah, yeah. So I was like, I knew that I
needed, if I went in for a month, it wouldn't have helped.
I, I knew that I needed at leasta year to completely recalibrate
my brain and my thought process and all about thinking
chemically and like mentally, mentally, right?
So that's why I was glad that I was in for that amount of time.
If I was in for like 3 months, Iwould have been a little bit
more nervous because I'm like, Iwould just, I think if it was
(34:35):
three months, I still would havebeen thinking, what am I going
to do when I get out? I'm not like what can I do now?
Whereas I knew that I was in forat least a year.
It's like what can I do now instead of when am I getting
out? What do you do today when when
life sort of lifes you like? How do you get through struggles
today? Is it easier do you think
because of what you went throughor?
I think you have to allow yourself to be sad.
(34:56):
The last time I didn't allow myself to be sad, you know,
because I was, had this business, I was just trying to
focus on like what I was doing and, and being like a successful
business owner and like just notwanted to compartmentalize
anything. And so like now it's like, OK,
you can compartmentalize, put something over here, be sad
about it and that's OK. Like you can't dwell on it, but
(35:17):
you also have to like allow yourself to feel things.
Whereas before I didn't. I was like, cocaine was Botox
for the soul. Botox for the soul.
Yeah. Wow.
It's almost like yeah, it just completely numbs it like
whatever, it's a quick fix or whatever.
I like that. That's good.
(35:42):
If you could, if you could say something.
Sorry, I want to say one more thing before I ask you the last
question because I just remembered it now.
But I find that, yeah, like, I, that really hit me actually
today, like allow yourself to besad because I've spent a lot of
time not doing that. I, you know, I'll what what
happens to me is life will happen.
Something will happen. And I want to fix it right away.
(36:05):
And I want to jump into whateverI need to do to please whatever
I want people please or do this,that it's like, no, like, yeah,
you need to take a second and just like, acknowledge that
you're human and you're allowed to feel feelings and it's OK.
But you don't have to dwell in it.
Like you said. How do you get out of that,
though? Like how do you get from?
I don't know, like what does that process look like?
(36:27):
Well, it starts with anger #1 like first you're mad, you want
revenge, then you. I just was tired of being sad.
I was like, I only have one life.
I don't want to be like this. I hated feeling like that, but I
knew it was necessary. I know it is necessary.
Like, obviously if you have a shit couple days and, you know,
(36:49):
you have to let yourself feel that and make sure you're around
the right people because some people will tell you to do the
complete thing that's actually not good for you, right?
Like sometimes I told the wrong people when I was sad about
like, that. My family's splitting up.
They're like, well, aren't you old enough?
You know? And it's just like, so I wasn't
allowed to be sad. Yeah.
Yeah, Right. And so I was like, well, fuck
you then. Yeah, it's true.
Yeah. And a lot of those problems come
(37:10):
from childhood when, you know, if you cry like being a a boy
growing up in Italian European household, there was a lot of
times where it was like, like, yeah, you don't really show
emotions. And that ends up affecting you
down the road where you're not able to show emotions anymore.
So I love that. Surround yourself with the right
people. Yeah.
And sometimes it's gonna take a while to figure out.
Sometimes you're gonna surround yourself with the wrong people,
(37:31):
and then you learn. Yeah.
And so you're more cautious and you're more careful.
And that's also a part of learning.
Yeah. And.
You know what to look. For and you'll know when you're
tired of being sad, you'll know you'll be like, screw this, like
I'm over it now. Then you gotta, you gotta also
move on and do things like like,I don't know, I love like my
dogs going to the gym, but I don't surround myself with
people when I'm going through the sad face that are going to
(37:52):
make me angry. Go take me back a step, because
that's the first step, I think. Right.
Or gossip. Or, you know, yes, people,
right, The people. Yeah, yeah, you should beat that
guy. Up exactly.
Yeah, that. Was dangerous place to be let's
end with this if you could say something to someone who is
start trying to start a new venture or company or dream goal
(38:15):
passion and they're really struggling right now what do you
say to that person give. Me a call, I'll help them.
Love it. Yeah, honestly, call me.
I'm. I'm here to help and I had a lot
of help building mine. You know, everyone person that I
wrote a letter to like that's how I built my mentorship
network. So I'm here to help.
Yeah, I guess that's it like right.
Having a good mentor. Yeah, have a good mentor and
(38:37):
then if I can help you, I'll, I'll introduce you to someone
who can because I obviously don't know everything.
Amazing. Yeah, I love that too.
There's a bit of humility there,too.
Where can we find you, Emily? Where can we find?
Popcorn or me? Me.
Do you? Have like social media like.
Yeah, at Comeback Snacks is a company one, but my personal one
where I share more of my own journey is EMS dot O'Brien.
OK. And I'll write that in the notes
(38:58):
too, so people can follow along too.
Yeah. Awesome.
Thank you so much for coming I. Appreciate for having me had a.
Great time. Yes, and now you know that the
the Marshall amp. It's a fridge.
Yeah, the Marshall amp is a fridge and I'm going to use it
going forward. Yeah, for non alcoholic
beverages and and etcetera. Thanks for listening.
Please help us grow the channel and like, share and subscribe
(39:21):
for more content. The discussions and stories
shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational
purposes only. This content is not a substitute
for professional medical advice,addiction treatment or therapy.
If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction,
please consult A licensed physician, addiction specialist
or mental health professional. You are no longer alone.
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