September 6, 2025 • 58 mins
Jennifer Baxendale and Kirstin Rajala were in NYC to attend the February 2020 show. Inspired by the night, and with their shared passion for women’s stories and lively events, they’ve signed up to bring the series to Canada.
Generation Women blends a lively literary salon with the tradition of handing down wisdom from community elders. Join us around the matriarchal campfire for an intimate events that celebrates the hearts and minds of many. Alongside cis women, we cast all gender expressions including non-binary folk and trans women.
What these 2 women are doing is incredible and you need to check them out now! Generation women. Im looking forward to attending these shows in Toronto! For tickets click the link!
https://www.generationwomen.ca/
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Yeah. So we heard about this event
that was happening in New York. I don't know how I don't know
when you and I might call it a godshot, like where it's like,
how did this even come into our path?
And it was this storytelling event where you would invite a
woman or non binary person to share a personal story as it
(00:21):
relates to a common theme. And that would look like 20s,
thirties, 40s, fifties, sixties,70s plus.
And for me, it felt like, oh, this is a way to bring something
that has been instrumental in myrecovery to everyday people, non
addicts, essentially, right? Which is that shared
(00:42):
storytelling. It's not beautiful.
It's not in a it's not a Ted Talk.
It's not it's and I tell people all the time when they're coming
on the show, I'm like, this is not your opportunity to do a Ted
Talk. You just come tell your story,
your truth, say your truth aboutthe theme, and the magic will
happen. Hi there, welcome back or
(01:04):
welcome to Recovering Out Loud podcast, the show where we get
real about mental health and addiction.
I'm so glad you're here. If you or someone you love is
struggling with drugs or alcohol, please reach out for
help. Send me a message on all social
media platforms at Recovering Out Loud Pod or by e-mail at
(01:24):
Recovering Out outloudpod@gmail.com.
You are no longer alone. So yeah.
(01:47):
Rock'n'roll, baby. Yeah, I mean, that's the way it
is, right? I actually posted on the wall
there. It's when you walk in.
I posted like looking for addicts in recovery to come on
the podcast, right? Haven't gotten one call.
I thought for sure I. Was like I thought for sure
denial maybe? They're not there yet.
You should have put underneath. PS I'll save you a seat.
(02:09):
Do you want to know? I should have put the 21
questions maybe on the wall. No.
Painful. Yeah.
Thanks so much for coming down, guys.
I really appreciate it. I loved.
I know I love when people reach out to me and you know, I'm
really interested to hear what you guys are doing.
I heard a little bit about it, but I, I want to know more about
(02:30):
it. You know, we know each other
from from the recovery community, which is now the
second time that's happened to me where I had someone in here.
I know, right? I thought for sure it.
Was way. More I'm not reaching out to
enough people and clearly, but I, you know, another woman came
in here and I was like, I know you.
And so it's beautiful. You know, it's a small world,
this recovery community in Toronto, but it saved my life.
(02:50):
So why don't you both introduce yourselves and give us a little
bit about maybe, I don't know, you're, you're in recovery, Jen,
and but you are not. Nor does she need it.
Yeah, nor does she need it. Yeah, thank you.
So just let's do that. Start with a little introductory
and what maybe what mental health means to you today.
(03:14):
Oh wow, just a casual ice breaker just gonna drop.
That. OK, so my name's Jen Baxendale
and I am one of the Co founders as well as the host of
Generation Women Canada. And that is a live show we hear
we do here in Toronto and is actually starting to expand this
(03:35):
year, which is really exciting. And I've been sober from alcohol
and drugs, specifically cocaine since 2012.
So I just celebrated 13 years ofconsecutive recovery.
Amazing. Yeah.
And so, yeah, we do know each other.
We've like orbited, I think is how I would describe it.
(03:57):
But I probably wouldn't have even known your name
necessarily. Like, I kind of like saw you
around. I'm sure 'cause I see the men,
but I tend to stick with the women.
So yeah, when I saw you were doing this, I was like, this
feels great because there is some motivation for when we
started the show that ties into like a lot of the things that I
learned in recovery. So that's kind of me in a
(04:21):
nutshell. Over to you.
Don't choke. Oh.
Jen's good at speaking in rooms.I love your relationship
already, this is great. Well, let's talk about it.
So my name's Kirsten Rila. Jen and I are actually best
friends also and we met in 2008.7 I think. 7-8 I had a business.
(04:45):
I sold it to the company she wasthe VP of and we immediately
looked each other up and down and thought, you are fun, let's
hang out. This could work.
But Jen was not in recovery and so while I was drawn to her as a
person, we couldn't maintain a friendship because she wasn't
(05:05):
the most reliable person. I can't relate to that at all.
No, no, no. And the great end of that story
is that she became sober and I got the best of both worlds.
I got, you know, this amazing, beautiful friendship out of it
and and to celebrate her sobriety along with her.
So I'm not sober, nor do I need to be.
(05:27):
Thanks for calling that out. But I support and celebrate all
of her milestones and medallions.
Sure. Yeah.
And you are also my Co producer.That's right, I also Co
produced. The show Generation Women.
Yeah. I'm more in the background,
although I've been getting on stage a little bit more to get
over my fear of public speaking in front of an and we do this
(05:48):
for fun, like this is a passion project for us.
We both have full time gigs. This is, you know, something we
just are incredibly certain needs to happen as an event
series because of the community that it celebrates and that it
creates. Awesome.
Yeah. Tend to me a favor and just tilt
it down a little bit. It's just it's covering your
face and I want to see your faceor they stop flirting.
(06:10):
They want to see your face. So, so that's amazing.
So you got to see her before andthat's why.
So, 'cause when I was saying you're not in recovery, I was
about to say, but you've been touched by addiction.
But I can't like I confirm nor deny that, right?
So now it seems like you do haveexperience with recovery because
(06:32):
you've seen it in your life and you've seen what addiction is
all about. Can you talk a little bit about
like the before and after transition?
Sure, sure. And I will say my dad was an
alcoholic who never went into recovery.
Yeah, Jen, I mean, I clearly sawthat there were fantastic
qualities about her. But as fabulous as that was, it
(06:55):
came with a lot of challenges because, you know, making plans,
being a trustworthy person when it comes to just being reliable,
whether it's things you say and things you do.
Yeah, actions by action words, Yeah, wasn't really anything.
That was tough. And it certainly when we
socialized, it was never only about socializing very quickly,
(07:18):
right? Like we'd be like, hey, let's
hang out and do a puzzle. And you'd be like, I just did
lines in the washroom. Yeah.
Like I would roll up like I'm thinking of that specific night
and it was like I was, you know,10 steps ahead of everybody else
and like not matching the under.Like I was not reading the room.
No, we'd be. Opening diet Cokes and she would
(07:38):
be literally cutting lines in mybathroom.
Yeah. So.
She'd be like, hey guys, let's party.
It's like 4:00 PM. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, 1000% People have stories about like me showing up at
morning time or end it being like that, like just always
really to the extreme. And I think when I think about
(08:03):
those things, it's it's interesting because I like
always wanted to be friends withyou and I wanted to be reliable
and I didn't necessarily want tobe that person, right?
It's like now when I see myself in recovery, like I would love
to do a puzzle. I would, I can imagine like what
that kind of is like when you'redealing with an addict versus a
(08:26):
non addict, right? Like I've just and it can show
up like even as a recovered person, like I can or person in
recovery. I don't really like that
terminology. I, I can feel like I'm like, I'm
still drinking energy drinks sometimes and I'm still like,
let's do like like over scheduling and that.
So it's like I do sometimes feelit, but it's obviously it's not
(08:49):
killing me. So it's not nearly what it once
was. Although you did bring me a Diet
Coke today. I did.
We call them fridge cigarettes. A fridge ciggy.
When you go, you're like, Oh, yeah.
So dirty all that aspartame. Yes, that's the second thing
I've learned today already. And then yes, we're not even 5
minutes in, 10 minutes in. I love it.
(09:09):
Fridge. Cigarette.
Listen, I will say the mental health thing is another piece
that. We we share that for.
We absolutely share that we bothhave our semi colon tattoo.
If you're familiar with what that is explain that Oh, I'm
gonna ruin this. The semi colon project was
started by a lovely woman and I feel horrible that I don't
remember her name but it was really looking at the purpose of
(09:30):
a semi colon in in grammar and that it means the sentence is
not over and it for people that have this tattoo means they
either or are supportive of someone who chose not to commit
suicide. Their sentence is your life.
Yeah, so like when you could have chosen to end it, which is
like a semi colon, instead the sentence carried on.
(09:50):
So that was the semi colon project.
I don't necessarily endorse it or know where it's at today,
like if it's still an active thing, but we.
She unfortunately did in her life, which is very sad, but
there's a beautiful community around it.
I've been in places and. Like people notice it like and
will like say oh, like me too orit's like a very.
(10:12):
It's a whole other community, yeah.
Yeah, I think that's amazing. What a great I I just, I can
relate that so much to like addiction too, where it's like,
you know, I when I came into recovery, maybe you can relate
to this too, But it's like I thought my life was over, right?
And I thought it was done. I wanted to kill myself many
times. I think, I think a lot of the
(10:33):
time though, although I didn't really plan out suicide or or
try to take my life yet. I always say yet because I don't
know what will happen if I go out there again and use, but I
would just have scenarios in my head where I'd be like, I
wouldn't mind if you know, this happened or yeah, you know,
totally. And that's the place it brings
you to. So I love that.
That's amazing. It's like if the story is not
(10:54):
over yet, the sentence is not over yet.
There's more learning to be had and more relationships to be
built and more sunsets and sunrises to sea, right?
And it just, I love the terminology of like when it
could have ended, it carried on.And it's not that when it could
have ended, it got amazing and everything was great, you know,
or like, it's like, no, you just, it carried on.
(11:15):
And that feels like really relative to both of our mental
health journeys. I'm moved by the fact that you
say yet when you talked about suicide, because clearly that's
not cool. I'm medicated.
I feel really good. It doesn't mean it's gone away,
but at one point someone said tome, promise me you won't do
(11:38):
anything without talking to me first.
And so, and they made me shake on it.
So I'm gonna do that to you right now.
So promise me you won't do anything.
Shake on it. I like that.
It's better shake get over. Here you promise me.
You. Won't do anything, I promise
you. Yes, I promise you.
Thank you. I love that.
That's great. Everyone heard that.
Yeah, that now it's all over theInternet.
(11:59):
So you're you're accountable. Yeah.
Forever. But no, I think it's important.
I mean, anytime I've ever gone back out and relapsed, it's
because I missed that step, thatimportant step of telling
somebody about my grand ideas and plans.
And, you know, I was mentioning to you that the eight years,
(12:19):
like, yeah, my life was amazing.It was incredible.
I never thought I would relapse ever.
It was not a part of my story inmy mind, right.
And that's why I say yet today, because I have, all I have is
today, right? I know today I don't think about
suicide today. I don't think about the drugs
right now. And if I can get to bed sober
and in a good mind state or not even in a good mind state, if I
(12:40):
can get to bed sober, like that's a win for me today.
Right. Well, the other thing about the
after is you did say that your friendship group changed.
Oh yeah. And then I got more of you to
me. So selfishly, it worked out
really well. But you talked a lot about that,
that people didn't know how to socialize with you, right you.
So I was. It's gotten better because now
(13:01):
there are it's more, there are more activities for sober
people. It's actually become quite a
thing, right? Sober parties sober this and
daytime parties but 13 years ago.
No, 13 years ago we were still doing beer at yoga and I was
like, what? Does that look like that?
Sounds awful. Like, listen, I didn't go to it.
I was, I was too drunk. Yeah.
(13:24):
Like how do people even make it there?
No. But it was like, it was so
ingrained in everything and like, going out was like, not
we're gonna drink, we're gonna get annihilated.
It was very much that like the 2000s culture and yeah, there
was that I was getting a Diet Coke.
I have a fridge ciggy or Red Bull, a Red Bull or water right.
(13:46):
And now like I could. I love when you do your, like,
reviews of the different, like whether it's non Elks or it's
like different beverages. It's exciting.
And like, Kirsten's such an advocate for me.
Like when we go out for dinner and like, we look at the menu,
'cause we travel a lot together.She'll be like, not really, not
much here. Like, yeah.
That's. That little X in this, but other
(14:07):
times it's like, oh, wait until you see like it's right there in
the front, right. And so, you know, going back to
that, the friendship and us, I guess reconnecting.
I don't even know, like coming back together I guess.
Her meeting the real you, maybe.Yeah, even that was she was one
of the first people that I told that I was trying to get sober
(14:28):
when I sought sobriety the firsttime because I had I did have
one relapse. I didn't tell anyone at first
because I didn't want to be accountable, right.
If once I tell people that I'm doing this this thing and but I
did, you know, I told her I actually remember we were at
Spice route. We were on the patio.
Like it, you know, when you havethat moment, like is the same
(14:50):
way I remember my first drink and the music that was playing
and the sound of the room it like, I can go back there, which
is like generally a good indicator that you might have a
problem. Spoiler alert, not many people
remember the moment they drank in the song they were playing
for the first time. So anyway, yeah, telling her was
(15:12):
like that step of accountability, you know, saying
my truth about what was going onbecause a lot of what was going
on around me looked the same, right?
I was 27. I think when I first came into a
A and not there wasn't a ton. Now there's way more and I love
that. I love that for the community.
(15:35):
And there wasn't a lot to do. There really wasn't like there
was no sober community. There was like maybe dry
January, but I don't even think so.
I feel like that came after. And with all these new kind of
menu options and this new kind of approach towards that, it
feels like as someone who is a supporter of a sober person, I
(15:56):
can talk about it more freely. I think before, yeah, 13 years
ago, if you weren't drinking, people were still pressuring you
and asking why. And that's become more
normalized even today. When we came in, I asked you, is
it rude to ask how much time someone has?
I don't know. So I, you know, she is educating
me as well on, I know it's your own experience, but on generally
(16:17):
what the community is feels OK being talked about or asked
about. Yeah.
And there's a lot of that. I'm not sure what you have
experienced around like, like breaking your anonymity, so to
speak, because even for me, I'vealways been open.
I've always had the luxury, as Isay, to be able to tell the
(16:39):
career that I was in for a very long time.
Everyone there knew I was in recovery.
Everyone there knew I had a problem.
My family, my, you know, the friend group that I started
building back up, but it wasn't very common.
Like a lot of people weren't necessarily talking about it.
And I talk about it all of the time because I think it is so
(16:59):
important that we come out of the dark basement and actually
say, hey, like, addiction can look like this.
It can look like me in my late 20s.
It can look like someone with a career like it does, not what
was originally shown on TVI think it's getting better now,
like the representation of of addiction and recovery, but it
(17:22):
wasn't like that then. And it's been a really important
part of my journey to actually be open.
And I've actually been able to have people reach out to me and
say like, hey, I'm struggling ormy sister's struggling.
Like because of my openness, it is open that communication to
(17:42):
allow me to like help other people as well in a totally
different way. That's like outside of
traditional recovery rooms. Absolutely.
And that's the best part, right?When you get those messages,
it's the greatest thing ever. Yeah, that happens to me a lot.
So it's interesting that you bring that up because I made a
switch this time around where I had almost a double life before
(18:04):
where I was sober, thriving eight years.
And then I went to work and I didn't talk about it at all,
right. And I, I'll never forget this.
I remember I was going, we were going for lunch one time with
some guys in my office and I hadthe recovery literature in the
back seat. That's looks like a Bible.
And the guys got in the the truck, the car and nobody said
(18:25):
anything. But after I noticed after when
we got out that I left it in theback, I had a panic attack.
Like I literally, I was like, I might get fired.
All these thoughts are going through my head.
And so to your point, Oh my God,is it so much easier to live
life when you just don't give a shit about what other people
think, whether you're in recovery or not.
Because for a long time I was, Ithink I was a little bit ashamed
(18:46):
of it, even though I was strung up to meetings and I was like,
this is great. I love being sober.
No, I'll tell everybody now I struggle with the thing I
struggle with now is, and I'm learning this in school.
I'm back in school for social work.
And they, she talked, they, one of my professors talks about
just how much you tell your story, like and, and, and what
moments, because I've definitelyovershared before, right?
(19:07):
And people have been like what, smoking meth like.
I, I remember telling a story like, you know, when you have
like T threes and you like cut them up and you rail them and
like I was like, oh, not a safe space like.
The library. Everyone was like, but it's
true, right? And the duplicity was what I
struggled with, actually, what you're talking about.
I was like, you're coming in, you know, my relationship with
(19:27):
12 step program is, is probably not your traditional 12 step
necessarily. So I will say that and to each
their own. And I'm very much a believer in
like whatever your recovery looks like is what it looks
like. And there are many paths to
recovery. It is not just in 12 step, it is
not just in rehab. I didn't go to rehab, but it is
(19:49):
for me. I was living such a double life,
like I was moving person to person.
I was, I don't even know if I could call it a double life.
But if I'm with you, I'm acting one way.
If I'm with you, I'm acting another way.
And so then to come into 12 stepand have this like, you know,
the importance of anonymity stressed.
It was a very, I struggled with it 'cause I'm like, OK, so I
(20:13):
can't, I shouldn't tell people or I should or like if I see you
on the street, like, isn't that still kind of a dishonesty?
Like if I'm not and I remember. A switch like there came a point
where I'm like, oh, I'm an addict, I'm an addict, I'm an
addict. Like woe is me kind of.
And I was like, no, I'm a fucking sober addict.
Like I'm I'm a badass, like I overcame something and I am out
(20:38):
here like living my best sober life.
And I'm not going to not talk about it.
I'm not going to say, oh, hey, you're an A a too.
No, but I am going to talk aboutthe fact that I'm an addict and
what it looked like and not downplay it or hide A about it.
And if someone pressures, not pressures me, but like prompts
me to know more than I might say.
(21:00):
Here's one of the tools that I use which is, you know, 12 step
programming. Yeah, and what that looks like
and how you can access it. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. That's a good point.
OK, I wanna talk about the generation women some more.
How did that start? And so where did it?
Like, where did it start and where is it at today, tomorrow,
(21:23):
next week? What's and what's on the
horizon? OK.
Yeah. You want to start?
Yeah. We always go to events and love
attending events. We noticed that there weren't a
lot of events available to us that reflected either our age,
our interests. There were some kind of event
(21:43):
series where people would speak,but we found that they were very
first world problem type scenarios and there was never
anyone older. Yeah.
At all. Like older than like 30 even
like mid 30 at the at the Max. Yeah.
Combine that with your experience in recovery.
Yeah, so we heard about this event that was happening in New
(22:07):
York. I don't know how I don't know
when you and I might call it a godshot, like where it's like,
how did this even come into our path?
And it was this storytelling event where you would invite a
woman or non binary person to share a personal story as it
relates to a common theme. And that would look like 20s,
(22:28):
thirties, 40s, fifties, sixties,70s plus.
And for me, it felt like, oh, this is a way to bring something
that has been instrumental in myrecovery to everyday people, non
addicts, essentially, right? Which is that shared
storytelling. It's not beautiful.
It's not in a it's not a Ted Talk.
(22:50):
It's not it's and I tell people all the time when they're coming
on the show, I'm like, this is not your opportunity to do a Ted
Talk. You just come tell your story,
your truth, say your truth aboutthe theme and the magic will
happen, right? And that's what happens in in 12
steps traditionally, right? It's like people, it could be
(23:12):
anyone, it could be any age, it could be any anything, right?
And they tell their story or portion of their story or they
sit, you know, one-on-one and they share their experience,
strength and hope on addiction recovery, how to live sober,
like all of those things, how they work the steps, whatever.
And I had women who were like very young, you know, people are
(23:35):
either sponsees or or even just every like other fellows who
were helping me. And then I had people, as you
know, 80s, nineties, like there are people still telling their
story in their late 90s right here in Toronto.
And they were helping me and they were my friends.
Like that was the thing too, is like I would get these looks
(23:56):
sometimes when I would be out with them, whether it was like
just going for coffee after a meeting or like with sponsors or
other fellows that I just was like looking for advice from.
And you could see them being like, well, that's, that's not
her mom and that's not her grandma, like, or it's not her
little sister or whatever. Like who is that person?
I'm like, that's my friend. Like that person helped me get
(24:17):
through major things, right? Like you do so much growing up
when you get sober. And so bringing it back to the
show, I'm like, this is like that, right?
This is where we go and we will share the story.
And instead of talking about sobriety or addiction, we're
gonna talk about, you know, yourbucket list or wise words that
someone shared with you stories about the female body.
(24:41):
What else? Those are just like a few of
them, right? And and you go on this journey,
right? And you go, you have your team
20s and they're always like vibrant and full of hope and a
little bit selfish and ego and kind of and then as you go on
and it starts to shed and these people become just so
(25:02):
authentically themselves. I don't know how old you are,
but like when you turn 40 as a woman, it's just like, it's a
really like atsn turning point where you're just like, I could
like no, don't care. Like I can think of random shit
that I was doing when I was younger, like going to the gym
and like being worried about howI looked or like holding in my
(25:23):
pee so that I don't like go to the bathroom as if someone's
going to like, like a guy is going to like know that I went
pee. It's just like bananas.
Oh, silly. And so it was, I don't know,
it's just, it's just you go on this and by 40s it's like, yes.
And, and by the time you hit 70s, they take the house down.
It is just like the show is. It does really pull from the
(25:50):
community and fellowship aspect that I learned in recovery
spaces. It is a safe space.
It is inviting. Like we want you to swear.
We want you to make a mistake. If you cry, that's OK, you know,
and and what somebody's story. That means everything to me that
I'm like, wow, like that is somebody else's.
It wasn't really. And that's that is it right.
(26:13):
When I go to like a meeting, I'mnot expecting that it's always
going to be amazing and that I'malways going to like it.
And so that became for me, one of my driving forces is like the
importance of intergenerational storytelling, the importance of
hearing from all ages and the importance of sharing everyday
(26:34):
stories and looking to the, you know, to the youth and also to
people who are older than yourself.
Like outside of that bracket. I think once you step outside of
like 10 years, it tends to be like, why?
Like who's this friend? It's like, no, they're my
friend. Why do why are we confined to
these like buying scenary positions where I can only be
(26:55):
friends with people who are like40 ish?
And women's voices, elevating women's voices, giving them
literally the microphone to speak in front of a crowd.
They're not professionals. These are people that we meet in
everyday life. People refer other women to us
and we don't want them to be rehearsed.
(27:17):
They really can't screw it up. They're telling their own story
and it's very personal. We've been doing this for almost
three years. We do them four times a year.
And so in October we have our 3rd anniversary and what's
exciting is one year ago we had teen 20s from our first show,
really amazing woman in Chelsea.And she asked us to kind of Co
(27:41):
host with her a dedicated show in honor of truth and
reconciliation with a an all indigenous lineup.
And we are doing that again thisyear.
So that has now become somethingthat we hope to do annually.
And then we've also partnered with the Canadian Women's
Foundation to do a show in Calgary and that's going to
happen in October. So it feels fantastic that we're
(28:03):
able to provide a platform for more women to tell stories and
more opportunities for people tolisten to and are generational,
you know, women again, or peoplethat represent as women, whoever
you want to phrase that. Yep, it's it's pretty exciting.
It's pretty exciting. And we also at our shows, we
(28:24):
have a marketplace. Yep.
So we'll bring in female owned small businesses and they can
come and sell their wares. Yep, for no cost.
Like we invite them just to like, come and participate.
Yep, we have food and beverage. We recently got sponsored by
Collective Arts. Yep.
So they'll have their amazing selection of non Elks, which
(28:45):
they are really great at, and wehave ASL live interpretation at
every show just to make it as inclusive as possible.
We heard that the deaf communityrarely have events to go to, and
so we wanted to be one of them. And we're still waiting for that
audience to really come out. I feel like they need to know
(29:06):
more, that it's there for them, but we're going to keep doing
it, yeah. Amazing And where do you where
do you see it going? Like where do you want it to go?
What's next on the horizon? Like that's big the Calgary and
and spreading out, but what's kind of the vision, I guess just
touching as many people as possible or.
Yeah, I think just having peoplebe heard and and the importance
of storytelling and and the intergenerational aspect of it.
(29:28):
Like it's one thing for us threeto sit and chat, but like it's
another to bring in, you know, someone who's a lot younger and
someone who might be a lot olderand to actually realize were not
that different. And we have no idea what stories
people are carrying with them, right?
It's not unlike why I wanted to be like, hey, I'm an addict,
(29:50):
right? Like I am a successful woman
running a marketing agency. I for all intents and purposes,
like look put together and I'm burning my life to the ground,
right? It's like it doesn't have to
look. It can look that way, but it can
also look like that. And so the shared stories of
like going, I would have looked at that person on the TTC and
(30:10):
written like, maybe that's not now.
I would. But most people might be like,
oh, that Gen. Z or like, you know, on their
phone or whatever. And meanwhile they're like
texting a doctor while they're recovering from stage 4 cancer,
right? Or like somebody in their 90s,
Like our first show that we wentto, we went to the New York show
and the Team 80s, I think at thetime told the story while
(30:34):
playing a ukulele about the orgies that she went to in Paris
in the like 1930s or 40s. I don't even know.
Do them the math ain't math. And but sometimes and you would
like this sweet little lady juststrumming away about her orgy,
right? And it tends to be sometimes the
most outrageous, which is again,not dissimilar from 12 step.
(30:56):
Like people with long term recovery are like more likely to
just like drop some story that you're just like what you did
what? And so that's what we love about
it. How about the woman at our show,
and I don't remember what team she was, but her first
journalism assignment was John Lennon.
'S assassination assassination so.
She was flown to New York and she was there.
(31:18):
She interviewed Elvis. Yeah, just like things that you
just, it's just, it's like a we always say it's like a big hug.
Like when you come to the show, it just feels like, wow, like
look at us, like look at humanity.
You can look back right at team 20s and remember being and
feeling, you know, as they do and look to the future and be
(31:41):
like, God, I I'll tell this likeone story.
So predominantly my team 70s. Sometimes I do a lot of the
speaker seeking and engage with them and I'm the only one that
hears the stories before they goon.
And so they will sometimes just call me and be like, yeah, I'm,
I'm not going to be able to do the show.
(32:03):
Good luck. And I'm like, OK, like, bye,
bye. And I want to be like, you've
been on the website. You want to do that.
And but then there's this part of me that's just like the lack
of apology that they're just like, yeah, I'm not going to be
able to do it. The lack of an excuse, right?
As women, I feel like we're like, Oh my God, I'm not going
(32:25):
to be able to come, but I'm really sorry.
Like I got to do this thing. It's like no, like no is a full
response and saying no, I'm not going to be able to make it.
I don't care that I'm on your website.
I don't care that I've done these things.
She obviously has something elsegoing on.
Who knows what it is. It's really none of my.
Business. Yeah.
And so as much as it's annoying,I also am like, wow, what is
(32:46):
that like to just be like, Nope,sorry so hard.
Yeah, like, imagine, imagine I just, like, texted you or sent
you a message and was like, yeah, we're not going to be able
to make it. Best of luck.
Like your reaction. What's your reaction?
You're going to be like, what the fuck?
Like why would that person do that?
My first reaction is she saw oneof my videos and got offended
by. It that's that's my first.
(33:07):
Reaction. I was, I was I'm in talks with,
you know, talking about partnership.
I'm talking to a treatment center right now and they
haven't answered me and like, I don't know.
So they hate you and. They don't want to.
They don't want to do anything with you.
We're the same. My my.
First thought is. Like they got a like I crossed
the line somewhere and and then I'm like, dude, I just shut up.
(33:29):
Just take a breath. People are busy.
I don't need a reason and they don't need to give you a reason,
right? People are allowed to do this.
Noah's a full sentence. I'm learning that too.
And, and as of late, yeah, one of the things that happened to
me when I started this podcast is like, I'm like, I'm learning
so much, right? And I never thought I'd be
(33:49):
learning so much about just every, not even just recovery,
just everything. Like I've had so many amazing
women in here. You're both of you included,
that are just blowing me away with some of the like things
that they say and the power and the shit that they've been
through. Oh, my God.
And, and to your point, it's like, if I saw you just walking
down the street, never would have thought that you were, you
(34:12):
know, sex trafficked or whatever, right?
Like just thank you for sharing that.
Right. And I think the other thing too
is when people share openly likethat specifically with the orgy
story and, and they're able to laugh about it, it gives women
space, gives everyone space. But in your specific scenario,
it gives women space to be like,Oh my God, I can, I can talk
about what I went through. I didn't even know like I was
(34:32):
allowed. I didn't know like it's.
Like when you do that, it gives others and I know from like the
importance of when someone says like, hey, I did that too, or
like, Hey, I also was so unreliable.
I had this great friend I could never show up for.
I did that too. I stole that too, you know.
(34:54):
And so that is what happens, right?
These there are obviously peoplethat come that are part of my
recovery community, but like these normies get to kind of
experience what I've been experiencing through shared
storytelling. And it is so amazing and
gratifying and just feels like, yeah, I, I don't, I can't
(35:15):
imagine not doing it. So going all the way back to
your original question, like continuing to expand, continuing
to hear from other voices. We are thinking about doing
another storytelling series that's in the works that will be
more inclusive. Inclusive in the sense that
anybody could come and tell a story because we have just seen
(35:37):
the magic of what we've been doing and how important it is
for for community and connectionand men are.
More than welcome. Oh, good.
I was gonna ask you. That yeah, it is not a.
Women only show. I think it has the name Women in
the title, but it is absolutely that makes me happy.
Yes. So we are like to.
See. You, yes.
(35:57):
Some of our actually. Our like biggest champions of
what we're doing are the men. Like there is one of our dear
friends. He's a DJ here in the city and
he saw one of our shows and he said it changed his life, 'cause
we know that, right? We know that someone can say
something to us and it can absolutely just be that like
truth bomb, that small nugget that like doesn't seem not the
(36:18):
like get your life together, butlike this little thing and
you're and it has that impact. My dad comes to almost every
show and he, my sister and I areare two the two daughters and he
says that he understands women more than he ever has because of
the show, because you we hear the stories.
(36:39):
We hear the like really big and scary stories about what it's
like to be a woman, which which is true, a lot of the stuff that
is going on. But to actually just hear us
talk about like our bodies or like what it feels like to age
or, you know, dreams that we have and aspirations.
That's not always out there, right?
It's everyday people, everyday women and everyday stories.
(37:03):
I think it'll. Help my marriage too.
So I'm that's what I'm thinking like I'm excited about that.
It's it feels like a. Peek behind the curtain, another
dear friend of mine says. Like, it really feels like a
window into like, women that youwouldn't necessarily get and
there's no secrets. We're just offering people a
(37:23):
chance to actually listen. There's no secrets being told.
Yeah, no, not at all. It's, it's the storytelling and
that's when, you know, when I was saying it's not a Ted Talk,
it's you telling your story for,you know, 7 minutes and that's
it. Leave it on the like, leave it
there, bring it and drop it. And a lot of people have said,
like, it's been really catharticfor them to, like, come and it
(37:46):
gave them confidence to go on todo other things or, you know,
they realized it wasn't that scary to do that thing or
overcoming it was like, empowered them to start doing
more of it. Like all of that.
And there's other people who just came and told their story
and that was it. Or are you all for an organ?
Yeah. Oh yeah.
So. This is a this is a crazy story.
(38:07):
OK, so we had Raheel Raza Raza on the show who's like a bad
ass. Like look her up Team 70s.
Formidable. Woman.
Yes, and. She was talking about being on
dialysis and needing a kidney. And this is this kind of goes
back to the story about like, I remember the story and she was
(38:28):
like, cool, but it wasn't like it didn't have any impact.
What happened for you? I thought she needs to live.
Longer, I'll give her my kidney.I met her, I just.
Met her, she needs to live longer.
She does. She does incredible work and she
is so impressive and so I asked if she if she wanted my kidney.
(38:50):
We aren't a blood match but at that point mentally I'd given my
kidney away. So I started calling people and
asking if anyone needs a kidney,no joke.
And I ended up meeting you're a Facebook.
Person. Someone said, hey, I know
someone who needs a kidney. And I wrote to him and said,
hey, how's it going? What's your blood type?
(39:11):
And his name is Felix. And he is in recovery as well.
19 years, I think so. Yep.
And he's a social worker. He became.
Yeah, I know him. You.
Know him. Yeah, I know, I know.
Him. OK, well.
He's. He's the recipient of my kidney.
Yeah, isn't that. Crazy I.
Didn't, I didn't know, like you know this stuff, right?
Like I'm so woo woo. I'm like, what are the chances
(39:32):
'cause I didn't actually even know him, but I'm not sure.
So he's a friend. Now everyone's like, do you know
him? I'm like, now I do.
Now he's a great friend. So yeah, he's a he's a good
dude. Yeah.
So. He he needs.
A kidney and now he's got 1, so there's so much.
Going through my mind right now,I just like, but that's the real
rude impact. Of this show like I wouldn't
have met the impact of the storytelling and.
The the certain thing that can move you, right.
(39:55):
And even when that happened, Kirsten wasn't or didn't quite
remember. My dad received an organ.
He was an organ recipient 22 or 23 years ago.
So there's just like all of thisstuff that's just like how?
And it all came. From someone coming and telling
their story and not saying, hey,give me your kidney, just coming
(40:15):
and telling a story that has an impact like you never know what
you're saying and the impact it might have on someone.
And so that's why we feel it's such a like beautiful.
I mean, I mean the the. Moment where the universe God
higher power, whatever you want to call it put a thought into
your mind to start thinking likeobviously your kidney was not
(40:35):
meant to go to that woman, but it was meant like it's just
yeah, it's supposed and like you're like yeah, I'm not
satisfied with with no for an answer to my tidney yeah, she'd.
Already given it away, she was just like, well, I might as well
do this. And then just like calling out
people being like, hey, do you know anyone who needs a kidney?
But again, storytelling, right? It's just like getting out of
(40:57):
our own way, telling our truth. I was gonna do this thing and
now I'm doing this thing and you.
And the trajectory is never, it sometimes is what it looks like
it's gonna be, but other times it's so unpredictable, right?
It's not necessarily that she gave it to her and they have
this great story. Instead, it's something entirely
different that somehow comes back around to me, 'cause she
(41:19):
was like, oh, my best friend's in recovery.
Oh, 'cause he had a website. And he's wrote his story.
Here's who I am. I was in journalism and I
needed. To.
Be in recovery. And I remember messaging him and
saying like, I get it. And so it is just serendipitous.
Yeah, that's. Incredible.
Oh. My God, is it odd or is it God?
(41:41):
As I like to say, how can you not?
It's just life is so much easierand I believe in a directing
force, guiding force, whatever you want to call it in magic.
I call it magic. Yeah.
I mean, it's so much. More fun let's.
Believe in magic because then, then the possibilities.
Are endless, right? Who knows?
You mentioned that you you know.You reached out for help to her
(42:03):
13 years ago, if you had to. If there's somebody listening
right now that maybe is in that position where they don't know
what what that looks like, what do you say to that person?
How did you ask for help? Oh gosh, I.
(42:24):
I you know that's a. That is a tricky question 'cause
I'm not sure. I think I was desperate, right?
I was like I need help big time I.
Think you have no. Idea like we were just talking
about what that outcome is. Don't listen to that first
thought that's telling you oh, that there it's too much.
(42:46):
They're not going to help me. They're going to tell other
people, you know, it could happen, but you're going to be
OK. It's way better than handling it
on your own. Like I think it's impossible.
Personal opinion, I think it's. Impossible to attack any mental
health on your own, whatever that looks like, whether it's
(43:06):
outside help from like when I think about my journey, I have a
psychiatrist, I have a therapist, I take my medication
as prescribed. I've gone to a a I've been a
part of she recovers like I've I've read all of the books about
different modalities to recoveryand those have become my tools.
Speaking my truth became my, my tool, like being able to say
(43:29):
that. And if you're asking somebody,
you just have no idea that that they might need help at some
point, right? Like or that they know somebody
like the interconnectivity of speaking your truth, saying your
truth, even if your truth is messy and confusing.
I think I even remember saying like, I don't know if this is
going to stick and it didn't. I relapsed after that and but it
(43:55):
was worth it. And then I think, you know, the
fear around asking someone who you might know is in recovery.
I think that's there a lot, right?
Like I'm not going to call my sponsor.
I'm not going to like tell people in the rooms what's
actually going on or I'm not going to tell my therapist
what's going on is problematic. Right?
If because for me to be able to take that shitstorm like that
(44:19):
horrible burning down of life and like be able to spin it into
someone else's gold to be like, hey, me too, like I did that
too, or I let me help you. Let me show you someplace.
Let me tell you how I did it. Let me is the greatest gift to
take literally a burning dumpster fire of a life and kind
of take it and respin it and repurpose it into somebody
(44:42):
else's. Like not feeling alone is just
that's been the greatest thing And Gen. women has done that for
that that for other people, theyfeel that way.
But women come up after we encouraged them to like they
reconnect. They end up doing their own
things. Like someone will tell me like,
yeah, like we hosted A facilitated a recovery thing
(45:03):
together or we did this other thing together.
It's not even through me anymore.
I'm just like a conduit. We are a conduit to community
and right now real stories in a world that has a lot of fake or
a lot of performative, a lot of gloss to it.
I think people are craving it. What's?
Really funny. Is you got tripped up when he
(45:24):
talked about you asking for helpand I'm going to identify that
Jen doesn't ask for help. That's what happens there 'cause
that's why I don't realize you were like, I don't know.
I don't ask for help. You don't.
She does not ask for help. That's true.
So I think it's the speaking your truth part which almost had
a few of us realize that that was your way of asking for help
(45:49):
or acknowledging. But you did like the reading.
All the things you've supported yourself with, those are all the
tools, but you tried to do it all yourself by doing all those
things you didn't technically ask for help.
True, That's true. And so we now know.
Sometimes when you need help, you still want to ask for help,
but you want to take care of everybody.
I'm like that. I'll deal.
Deal with it and then I'll tell you about it after, Yeah.
(46:09):
Or, you know, one thing that I tend to do is like, I will
intellectually I'm like, but, but, but here's all the things.
But emotionally, I'm not tellingyou how I was feeling.
I'm telling you, yeah, I'm a drug addict.
Yeah, these things happened. Yeah, I did this.
But then when you get into like the feelings part of it, it's
it's definitely, it trips me up.And you're right.
Asking for help is like very challenging for me.
(46:32):
So what's coming to mind is likethe 1000 LB phone, like it's so
hard to like really do that and especially as someone who is
self-sufficient, right, who who does for the most part like
handle things right. But it's like, how do I do that?
How do I let people in? And that's the beautiful thing
(46:52):
too is it's like a work in progress.
Like I'm not, I don't have the answer.
I don't know. You tell me.
How do you ask for help? I I mean.
So there's a lot there. You you said that in a nice way,
though, to the point where it brought out that her response.
And so my first thought and I will answer your question.
I'm not, I'm not dodging the question asking.
(47:13):
For help. It made me think asking for help
doesn't have to be hey I need help.
Something signified you that sheneeded help and there was a seed
planted along the way and that made it easier down down the
road for you to know that there was people in your life that
love you and will support you nomatter what sometimes.
(47:34):
Just showing up is the help too,right?
And we talked about that before.Just like.
Being there and like, sitting and and not telling her what to
do, not fixing it. Not everything's gonna be OK.
You know, like just presence, the energy of two people sitting
together is. Just as good sometimes I.
Struggle with that so much. I want to fix you now.
(47:57):
This is this. Is what you need to ask people.
When they complain or vent or whatever, do you need me to
listen or give advice, right? Do you want to hug or do you
want to fit you? Like you want to dig in?
And I mean, we've even asked that of each other at times.
Like do you want to just eat icecream or like, are we cutting
off ponytails? Like what are we doing?
(48:18):
Yeah, I think, yeah, open communication, opening yourself
up, though. That's just it cuz as soon as
you were opening yourself up, that's when we.
Were. Able.
To offer. Support, cuz we recognized that
there was a need for it. So I think it's opening yourself
up and that vulnerability of saying, oh, if people love me
(48:41):
unconditionally, it's so much about that, right?
And when you open it up, then wecan all come in and offer that.
I'll give you an example of how I.
Just thought of this now becauseI do not ask for help.
Well, at all I do not. And it's not that I maybe it is.
I mean, it's eagle at the end ofthe day no matter what, but it's
(49:01):
not so much that I think. No, I, I.
It is. It's I think that you will think
less of me. Yeah, but so I'm thinking of a
specific story where so I struggle with body dysmorphia.
I've opened up about that. And to our earlier points, the
more I've opened up about that, you would not believe I've had
(49:23):
10 times the amount of guys cometo me then looking for sober
help, that guys that are alreadyin recovery saying what you,
you're so fit. That's me too.
Like I struggle with it too. And so that's been a blessing in
disguise. That's been hard to open up
about because again, my brain islike, you're in good shape.
They're going to think you're a liar or you know what I mean?
Like all this bullshit in my head.
I was standing in the kitchen with my wife 2-3 maybe a month
(49:47):
ago, about to go to a retreat, asober retreat with the rehab
that I work at. And.
She had. We were getting into, we got
into an argument and I'm gonna try to share my story and not
hers because I can often do that.
But she was just, she's bringingup times in my addiction 'cause
(50:07):
she saw me at 8 years and then she saw me in my relapse.
So she's seen Jekyll and Hyde through and through.
She knows me at my core now, which is a blessing and a curse
at the same time, right? So we were just we were in a bit
of an argument and she was just like reminding me, you know,
when people like and you're and you're telling you thing and
you're like, Oh my God, forgot. I just forgot.
(50:28):
I did that, I forgot, I did that, I forgot.
And I'm just like taking it. And I'm, I'm literally praying
in my head because I'm like, I again, I want to make excuses.
I want to say it this and that, and I'm just like, God help me,
just take this right now, because she needs to give it to
me, right? She needs to give it to me and
so I needed help in that moment for the I'm going to relate it
back to the bodies morphia thingnow.
(50:50):
I went into my fridge so. We the fight ended and I don't
know why this happened. I call it act of Providence,
whatever. I went into my fridge and I had
been buying Ozempic online, OK to, to deal with and I'm doing
this in sobriety not long ago and I'm hitting myself with it.
Maybe whatever every week. That's how I relapsed the first
time is I started with things and not telling people right.
(51:12):
So we get into this fight. She ends it whenever we're,
we're kind of on our own, takingour own things, processing it.
I go into my fridge, take it outand I go in the bathroom right
in front of her. Like usually I'm more secretive
or whatever. And she I walk out and she goes,
the fuck are you doing? Like when she thought I was
doing steroids again, 'cause that was another part of my
story and I had a moment where Iwas like.
(51:34):
I could lie about this and get away.
With it, maybe. Or I could tell the truth and
I'm up to it. And I paused, which is a miracle
in of itself. And I told her the truth.
I said this is Olympic. I've been doing it for a while.
I'm struggling with this and. She didn't yell at me.
She didn't. Judge me.
She didn't. She just accepted me in the
moment and I was able to throw it out in the garbage and then
(51:56):
go on to this retreat and share my story with a bunch of people
that I didn't really know. But I opened up about it and and
people came up to me and said thank you for that.
Thank you for that. You know, you really helped me,
I think. That was a pivotal.
Moment in my recovery again because like I said to you
secrets were my downfall time and time again.
I think that's with all mental health is secrets, right?
(52:18):
But especially in addiction, it starts with a little spark in
the back and then you're throwing gasoline on it every
day. I think like without a doubt in
my mind that if I had not had that experience, if I had not
thrown it out, if I had not toldon myself caught myself,
whatever you want to call it, I think I would have eventually
relapsed, right. So it's like that's how I ask
for help to answer your questiona long winded way.
(52:40):
Yeah, yeah. I need to get caught.
Yeah, I really, I need to get caught.
I need to tell myself by gettingcaught because it's so hard for
me to say, hey, I'm struggling with this.
I don't know what to do. That's a great level of
self-awareness. Though, Yeah, and I think.
It's helpful when we have peoplethat see us, right, that that
that can say like you don't ask for help.
(53:01):
So I know that I need to come inthere, right?
And to be able to be accepting of that, right?
And to meet people where they are is a beautiful thing, right?
And I think that's what your wife did in that moment.
And then to go and share it, theretreat, like it's just, there's
so much in just telling your truth.
Tell your truth, whatever it is.It doesn't need to be rude.
(53:24):
It doesn't need to be like yelled, you know, at the tree,
like scream. Yeah, like it's it can be like,
I'm not OK, right. It could be, I might need help.
It could be I just need you to sit with me.
Like, whatever that truth is in that moment, I think is the
power. And that's what happens at our
event is like in that moment. And I will tell the
(53:45):
storytellers, if your, if your story changes after you've told
me what you think you're gonna say, great.
That's fine. I'm not gonna be like, oh, that
wasn't what you told me. No, I'm like.
That that's that could happen, right.
It's the same way, you know, youjust like get up there, tell
your truth as it relates to the topic, the theme even that
(54:05):
sometime is a bit, you know, people have done like spoken
word. Another person, you know, didn't
honor themselves in doing something in theater school and
they performed their soliloquy that they never did because they
were so like they just didn't prioritize themselves.
And so they stepped to the side and performed it.
(54:26):
People were bawling, right? And then there's other people
who tell like crazy stories, youknow, about their sex life in
Team 70s. At our last show had these nudes
that she'd posed for in Inner 20s and they were from.
She shared them all. She.
Put them on the. Stage.
She brought them, she brought them.
(54:47):
She told the whole story. And then she laid them out, and
there they were, her news in her20s.
Oh my God. And we?
Loved it like. People eat it up right?
When someone tells the truth, it's like what you said, it
gives others, you know, I hate, kind of don't love the word
permission, but it it tells someone else like, hey, that's
OK. And we want the show to feel
like that. I don't want you to look at it
(55:09):
like a Ted Talk and be like, I could never do that.
Like I'm not. That's not.
I want you to be like, I got a story.
I want to do that. Yeah.
I got a story. I could do that.
Come on up. Right.
You know, we talk about them notbeing professional storytellers
and they are, they're everyday women.
Some of them are like, that is, you know, they do tell stories
or they're a writer. They're in the public eye.
(55:30):
But it could just be like someone like just you see it,
you feel moved. Let's go.
Come on up. Tell your story.
Wow. And two, I mean, there's so much
magic that probably happens in that.
I love it. I'm excited to come.
I'm I'm more excited that I'm allowed and invited because that
was my first thought when we first started.
I was like, man, I'm never gonnabe able to go.
(55:52):
No come like. We encourage everybody, all
ages, like everybody to come like it really is a beautiful
evening. I know you will love it.
I mean, there's nothing better. Than raw, authentic honesty,
open mind, like especially coming out of, you know, in I'm
pretending that this isn't the real world, but the real world
(56:14):
with social media. And you know, that's my new
addiction nowadays. And it's just like, is this
real? I don't really know.
You know, are you crying? You're crying, you look like
you're acting. I don't know.
Right? Yeah.
I was watching a video the otherday and the girl was crying and,
and it looked like a legitimate thing.
And then someone was like, this is a satire account.
And I was like, what the fuck? Like, Oh my God, you know?
(56:34):
And I looked at her videos. And it was.
And I was like, man, you don't know what anyways.
Well, we intentionally don't. Air our shows online.
It's the moment. Yeah, it's the moment.
And also, people are sharing very personal stories, and
they're choosing to share it with a room full of people and
not the Internet. So we intentionally make it
about that night, 11 time only Night Circus.
(56:55):
Yep. Yeah.
So when's the next show? We have 3.
Upcoming So first up we have ourTruth and Reconciliation, all
Indigenous, that's on Wednesday,September 24th.
Then we have our Calgary show which is in October 2nd at the
Commons Hemingway Room. Hemingway Room.
(57:18):
And then our three-year anniversary October show is on
October 23, October 23rd, Thursday, October. 23rd.
It's at the lounge at. Live Nation, which is in Liberty
Village. And we do.
Actually have a show coming up in November in Hamilton.
Yeah. So we're really starting to,
like, pick up speed and try to bring more and more of these to
(57:40):
life. Love it.
And where can we find you? Generationwomen.
Dot CA and there are links to tickets there as well.
Yep, and you have Instagram as well.
Yep, we do, which is. Generation.
Women, I'll link it in there. Yeah, I'll link it.
Yeah, I'll link. Everything.
Yeah. Thank you.
And our tickets are? On Eventbrite.
Too perfect. Amazing.
Thanks so much for coming. Down.
It was a pleasure to meet you and to see you again.
(58:02):
Yep, I I hope our paths will cross again and I'm sure they
will. I'm excited to to go in and
you're coming to the. Show.
Yeah, you'll see me. You're getting a.
Phone call, yeah. You're coming?
Yeah. No.
Amazing. Thanks so much.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thanks. For listening.
Please help us grow the channel and like, share and subscribe
for more content. The discussions and stories
(58:24):
shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational
purposes only. This content is not a substitute
for professional medical advice,addiction treatment, or therapy.
If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction,
please consult A licensed physician, addiction specialist,
or mental health professional. You are no longer alone.
Yeah. So we heard about this event
that was happening in New York. I don't know how I don't know
when you and I might call it a godshot, like where it's like,
how did this even come into our path?
And it was this storytelling event where you would invite a
woman or non binary person to share a personal story as it
(00:21):
relates to a common theme. And that would look like 20s,
thirties, 40s, fifties, sixties,70s plus.
And for me, it felt like, oh, this is a way to bring something
that has been instrumental in myrecovery to everyday people, non
addicts, essentially, right? Which is that shared
(00:42):
storytelling. It's not beautiful.
It's not in a it's not a Ted Talk.
It's not it's and I tell people all the time when they're coming
on the show, I'm like, this is not your opportunity to do a Ted
Talk. You just come tell your story,
your truth, say your truth aboutthe theme, and the magic will
happen. Hi there, welcome back or
(01:04):
welcome to Recovering Out Loud podcast, the show where we get
real about mental health and addiction.
I'm so glad you're here. If you or someone you love is
struggling with drugs or alcohol, please reach out for
help. Send me a message on all social
media platforms at Recovering Out Loud Pod or by e-mail at
(01:24):
Recovering Out outloudpod@gmail.com.
You are no longer alone. So yeah.
(01:47):
Rock'n'roll, baby. Yeah, I mean, that's the way it
is, right? I actually posted on the wall
there. It's when you walk in.
I posted like looking for addicts in recovery to come on
the podcast, right? Haven't gotten one call.
I thought for sure I. Was like I thought for sure
denial maybe? They're not there yet.
You should have put underneath. PS I'll save you a seat.
(02:09):
Do you want to know? I should have put the 21
questions maybe on the wall. No.
Painful. Yeah.
Thanks so much for coming down, guys.
I really appreciate it. I loved.
I know I love when people reach out to me and you know, I'm
really interested to hear what you guys are doing.
I heard a little bit about it, but I, I want to know more about
(02:30):
it. You know, we know each other
from from the recovery community, which is now the
second time that's happened to me where I had someone in here.
I know, right? I thought for sure it.
Was way. More I'm not reaching out to
enough people and clearly, but I, you know, another woman came
in here and I was like, I know you.
And so it's beautiful. You know, it's a small world,
this recovery community in Toronto, but it saved my life.
(02:50):
So why don't you both introduce yourselves and give us a little
bit about maybe, I don't know, you're, you're in recovery, Jen,
and but you are not. Nor does she need it.
Yeah, nor does she need it. Yeah, thank you.
So just let's do that. Start with a little introductory
and what maybe what mental health means to you today.
(03:14):
Oh wow, just a casual ice breaker just gonna drop.
That. OK, so my name's Jen Baxendale
and I am one of the Co founders as well as the host of
Generation Women Canada. And that is a live show we hear
we do here in Toronto and is actually starting to expand this
(03:35):
year, which is really exciting. And I've been sober from alcohol
and drugs, specifically cocaine since 2012.
So I just celebrated 13 years ofconsecutive recovery.
Amazing. Yeah.
And so, yeah, we do know each other.
We've like orbited, I think is how I would describe it.
(03:57):
But I probably wouldn't have even known your name
necessarily. Like, I kind of like saw you
around. I'm sure 'cause I see the men,
but I tend to stick with the women.
So yeah, when I saw you were doing this, I was like, this
feels great because there is some motivation for when we
started the show that ties into like a lot of the things that I
learned in recovery. So that's kind of me in a
(04:21):
nutshell. Over to you.
Don't choke. Oh.
Jen's good at speaking in rooms.I love your relationship
already, this is great. Well, let's talk about it.
So my name's Kirsten Rila. Jen and I are actually best
friends also and we met in 2008.7 I think. 7-8 I had a business.
(04:45):
I sold it to the company she wasthe VP of and we immediately
looked each other up and down and thought, you are fun, let's
hang out. This could work.
But Jen was not in recovery and so while I was drawn to her as a
person, we couldn't maintain a friendship because she wasn't
(05:05):
the most reliable person. I can't relate to that at all.
No, no, no. And the great end of that story
is that she became sober and I got the best of both worlds.
I got, you know, this amazing, beautiful friendship out of it
and and to celebrate her sobriety along with her.
So I'm not sober, nor do I need to be.
(05:27):
Thanks for calling that out. But I support and celebrate all
of her milestones and medallions.
Sure. Yeah.
And you are also my Co producer.That's right, I also Co
produced. The show Generation Women.
Yeah. I'm more in the background,
although I've been getting on stage a little bit more to get
over my fear of public speaking in front of an and we do this
(05:48):
for fun, like this is a passion project for us.
We both have full time gigs. This is, you know, something we
just are incredibly certain needs to happen as an event
series because of the community that it celebrates and that it
creates. Awesome.
Yeah. Tend to me a favor and just tilt
it down a little bit. It's just it's covering your
face and I want to see your faceor they stop flirting.
(06:10):
They want to see your face. So, so that's amazing.
So you got to see her before andthat's why.
So, 'cause when I was saying you're not in recovery, I was
about to say, but you've been touched by addiction.
But I can't like I confirm nor deny that, right?
So now it seems like you do haveexperience with recovery because
(06:32):
you've seen it in your life and you've seen what addiction is
all about. Can you talk a little bit about
like the before and after transition?
Sure, sure. And I will say my dad was an
alcoholic who never went into recovery.
Yeah, Jen, I mean, I clearly sawthat there were fantastic
qualities about her. But as fabulous as that was, it
(06:55):
came with a lot of challenges because, you know, making plans,
being a trustworthy person when it comes to just being reliable,
whether it's things you say and things you do.
Yeah, actions by action words, Yeah, wasn't really anything.
That was tough. And it certainly when we
socialized, it was never only about socializing very quickly,
(07:18):
right? Like we'd be like, hey, let's
hang out and do a puzzle. And you'd be like, I just did
lines in the washroom. Yeah.
Like I would roll up like I'm thinking of that specific night
and it was like I was, you know,10 steps ahead of everybody else
and like not matching the under.Like I was not reading the room.
No, we'd be. Opening diet Cokes and she would
(07:38):
be literally cutting lines in mybathroom.
Yeah. So.
She'd be like, hey guys, let's party.
It's like 4:00 PM. Yeah, absolutely.
Yeah, 1000% People have stories about like me showing up at
morning time or end it being like that, like just always
really to the extreme. And I think when I think about
(08:03):
those things, it's it's interesting because I like
always wanted to be friends withyou and I wanted to be reliable
and I didn't necessarily want tobe that person, right?
It's like now when I see myself in recovery, like I would love
to do a puzzle. I would, I can imagine like what
that kind of is like when you'redealing with an addict versus a
(08:26):
non addict, right? Like I've just and it can show
up like even as a recovered person, like I can or person in
recovery. I don't really like that
terminology. I, I can feel like I'm like, I'm
still drinking energy drinks sometimes and I'm still like,
let's do like like over scheduling and that.
So it's like I do sometimes feelit, but it's obviously it's not
(08:49):
killing me. So it's not nearly what it once
was. Although you did bring me a Diet
Coke today. I did.
We call them fridge cigarettes. A fridge ciggy.
When you go, you're like, Oh, yeah.
So dirty all that aspartame. Yes, that's the second thing
I've learned today already. And then yes, we're not even 5
minutes in, 10 minutes in. I love it.
(09:09):
Fridge. Cigarette.
Listen, I will say the mental health thing is another piece
that. We we share that for.
We absolutely share that we bothhave our semi colon tattoo.
If you're familiar with what that is explain that Oh, I'm
gonna ruin this. The semi colon project was
started by a lovely woman and I feel horrible that I don't
remember her name but it was really looking at the purpose of
(09:30):
a semi colon in in grammar and that it means the sentence is
not over and it for people that have this tattoo means they
either or are supportive of someone who chose not to commit
suicide. Their sentence is your life.
Yeah, so like when you could have chosen to end it, which is
like a semi colon, instead the sentence carried on.
(09:50):
So that was the semi colon project.
I don't necessarily endorse it or know where it's at today,
like if it's still an active thing, but we.
She unfortunately did in her life, which is very sad, but
there's a beautiful community around it.
I've been in places and. Like people notice it like and
will like say oh, like me too orit's like a very.
(10:12):
It's a whole other community, yeah.
Yeah, I think that's amazing. What a great I I just, I can
relate that so much to like addiction too, where it's like,
you know, I when I came into recovery, maybe you can relate
to this too, But it's like I thought my life was over, right?
And I thought it was done. I wanted to kill myself many
times. I think, I think a lot of the
(10:33):
time though, although I didn't really plan out suicide or or
try to take my life yet. I always say yet because I don't
know what will happen if I go out there again and use, but I
would just have scenarios in my head where I'd be like, I
wouldn't mind if you know, this happened or yeah, you know,
totally. And that's the place it brings
you to. So I love that.
That's amazing. It's like if the story is not
(10:54):
over yet, the sentence is not over yet.
There's more learning to be had and more relationships to be
built and more sunsets and sunrises to sea, right?
And it just, I love the terminology of like when it
could have ended, it carried on.And it's not that when it could
have ended, it got amazing and everything was great, you know,
or like, it's like, no, you just, it carried on.
(11:15):
And that feels like really relative to both of our mental
health journeys. I'm moved by the fact that you
say yet when you talked about suicide, because clearly that's
not cool. I'm medicated.
I feel really good. It doesn't mean it's gone away,
but at one point someone said tome, promise me you won't do
(11:38):
anything without talking to me first.
And so, and they made me shake on it.
So I'm gonna do that to you right now.
So promise me you won't do anything.
Shake on it. I like that.
It's better shake get over. Here you promise me.
You. Won't do anything, I promise
you. Yes, I promise you.
Thank you. I love that.
That's great. Everyone heard that.
Yeah, that now it's all over theInternet.
(11:59):
So you're you're accountable. Yeah.
Forever. But no, I think it's important.
I mean, anytime I've ever gone back out and relapsed, it's
because I missed that step, thatimportant step of telling
somebody about my grand ideas and plans.
And, you know, I was mentioning to you that the eight years,
(12:19):
like, yeah, my life was amazing.It was incredible.
I never thought I would relapse ever.
It was not a part of my story inmy mind, right.
And that's why I say yet today, because I have, all I have is
today, right? I know today I don't think about
suicide today. I don't think about the drugs
right now. And if I can get to bed sober
and in a good mind state or not even in a good mind state, if I
(12:40):
can get to bed sober, like that's a win for me today.
Right. Well, the other thing about the
after is you did say that your friendship group changed.
Oh yeah. And then I got more of you to
me. So selfishly, it worked out
really well. But you talked a lot about that,
that people didn't know how to socialize with you, right you.
So I was. It's gotten better because now
(13:01):
there are it's more, there are more activities for sober
people. It's actually become quite a
thing, right? Sober parties sober this and
daytime parties but 13 years ago.
No, 13 years ago we were still doing beer at yoga and I was
like, what? Does that look like that?
Sounds awful. Like, listen, I didn't go to it.
I was, I was too drunk. Yeah.
(13:24):
Like how do people even make it there?
No. But it was like, it was so
ingrained in everything and like, going out was like, not
we're gonna drink, we're gonna get annihilated.
It was very much that like the 2000s culture and yeah, there
was that I was getting a Diet Coke.
I have a fridge ciggy or Red Bull, a Red Bull or water right.
(13:46):
And now like I could. I love when you do your, like,
reviews of the different, like whether it's non Elks or it's
like different beverages. It's exciting.
And like, Kirsten's such an advocate for me.
Like when we go out for dinner and like, we look at the menu,
'cause we travel a lot together.She'll be like, not really, not
much here. Like, yeah.
That's. That little X in this, but other
(14:07):
times it's like, oh, wait until you see like it's right there in
the front, right. And so, you know, going back to
that, the friendship and us, I guess reconnecting.
I don't even know, like coming back together I guess.
Her meeting the real you, maybe.Yeah, even that was she was one
of the first people that I told that I was trying to get sober
(14:28):
when I sought sobriety the firsttime because I had I did have
one relapse. I didn't tell anyone at first
because I didn't want to be accountable, right.
If once I tell people that I'm doing this this thing and but I
did, you know, I told her I actually remember we were at
Spice route. We were on the patio.
Like it, you know, when you havethat moment, like is the same
(14:50):
way I remember my first drink and the music that was playing
and the sound of the room it like, I can go back there, which
is like generally a good indicator that you might have a
problem. Spoiler alert, not many people
remember the moment they drank in the song they were playing
for the first time. So anyway, yeah, telling her was
(15:12):
like that step of accountability, you know, saying
my truth about what was going onbecause a lot of what was going
on around me looked the same, right?
I was 27. I think when I first came into a
A and not there wasn't a ton. Now there's way more and I love
that. I love that for the community.
(15:35):
And there wasn't a lot to do. There really wasn't like there
was no sober community. There was like maybe dry
January, but I don't even think so.
I feel like that came after. And with all these new kind of
menu options and this new kind of approach towards that, it
feels like as someone who is a supporter of a sober person, I
(15:56):
can talk about it more freely. I think before, yeah, 13 years
ago, if you weren't drinking, people were still pressuring you
and asking why. And that's become more
normalized even today. When we came in, I asked you, is
it rude to ask how much time someone has?
I don't know. So I, you know, she is educating
me as well on, I know it's your own experience, but on generally
(16:17):
what the community is feels OK being talked about or asked
about. Yeah.
And there's a lot of that. I'm not sure what you have
experienced around like, like breaking your anonymity, so to
speak, because even for me, I'vealways been open.
I've always had the luxury, as Isay, to be able to tell the
(16:39):
career that I was in for a very long time.
Everyone there knew I was in recovery.
Everyone there knew I had a problem.
My family, my, you know, the friend group that I started
building back up, but it wasn't very common.
Like a lot of people weren't necessarily talking about it.
And I talk about it all of the time because I think it is so
(16:59):
important that we come out of the dark basement and actually
say, hey, like, addiction can look like this.
It can look like me in my late 20s.
It can look like someone with a career like it does, not what
was originally shown on TVI think it's getting better now,
like the representation of of addiction and recovery, but it
(17:22):
wasn't like that then. And it's been a really important
part of my journey to actually be open.
And I've actually been able to have people reach out to me and
say like, hey, I'm struggling ormy sister's struggling.
Like because of my openness, it is open that communication to
(17:42):
allow me to like help other people as well in a totally
different way. That's like outside of
traditional recovery rooms. Absolutely.
And that's the best part, right?When you get those messages,
it's the greatest thing ever. Yeah, that happens to me a lot.
So it's interesting that you bring that up because I made a
switch this time around where I had almost a double life before
(18:04):
where I was sober, thriving eight years.
And then I went to work and I didn't talk about it at all,
right. And I, I'll never forget this.
I remember I was going, we were going for lunch one time with
some guys in my office and I hadthe recovery literature in the
back seat. That's looks like a Bible.
And the guys got in the the truck, the car and nobody said
(18:25):
anything. But after I noticed after when
we got out that I left it in theback, I had a panic attack.
Like I literally, I was like, I might get fired.
All these thoughts are going through my head.
And so to your point, Oh my God,is it so much easier to live
life when you just don't give a shit about what other people
think, whether you're in recovery or not.
Because for a long time I was, Ithink I was a little bit ashamed
(18:46):
of it, even though I was strung up to meetings and I was like,
this is great. I love being sober.
No, I'll tell everybody now I struggle with the thing I
struggle with now is, and I'm learning this in school.
I'm back in school for social work.
And they, she talked, they, one of my professors talks about
just how much you tell your story, like and, and, and what
moments, because I've definitelyovershared before, right?
(19:07):
And people have been like what, smoking meth like.
I, I remember telling a story like, you know, when you have
like T threes and you like cut them up and you rail them and
like I was like, oh, not a safe space like.
The library. Everyone was like, but it's
true, right? And the duplicity was what I
struggled with, actually, what you're talking about.
I was like, you're coming in, you know, my relationship with
(19:27):
12 step program is, is probably not your traditional 12 step
necessarily. So I will say that and to each
their own. And I'm very much a believer in
like whatever your recovery looks like is what it looks
like. And there are many paths to
recovery. It is not just in 12 step, it is
not just in rehab. I didn't go to rehab, but it is
(19:49):
for me. I was living such a double life,
like I was moving person to person.
I was, I don't even know if I could call it a double life.
But if I'm with you, I'm acting one way.
If I'm with you, I'm acting another way.
And so then to come into 12 stepand have this like, you know,
the importance of anonymity stressed.
It was a very, I struggled with it 'cause I'm like, OK, so I
(20:13):
can't, I shouldn't tell people or I should or like if I see you
on the street, like, isn't that still kind of a dishonesty?
Like if I'm not and I remember. A switch like there came a point
where I'm like, oh, I'm an addict, I'm an addict, I'm an
addict. Like woe is me kind of.
And I was like, no, I'm a fucking sober addict.
Like I'm I'm a badass, like I overcame something and I am out
(20:38):
here like living my best sober life.
And I'm not going to not talk about it.
I'm not going to say, oh, hey, you're an A a too.
No, but I am going to talk aboutthe fact that I'm an addict and
what it looked like and not downplay it or hide A about it.
And if someone pressures, not pressures me, but like prompts
me to know more than I might say.
(21:00):
Here's one of the tools that I use which is, you know, 12 step
programming. Yeah, and what that looks like
and how you can access it. Yeah, exactly.
Yeah. That's a good point.
OK, I wanna talk about the generation women some more.
How did that start? And so where did it?
Like, where did it start and where is it at today, tomorrow,
(21:23):
next week? What's and what's on the
horizon? OK.
Yeah. You want to start?
Yeah. We always go to events and love
attending events. We noticed that there weren't a
lot of events available to us that reflected either our age,
our interests. There were some kind of event
(21:43):
series where people would speak,but we found that they were very
first world problem type scenarios and there was never
anyone older. Yeah.
At all. Like older than like 30 even
like mid 30 at the at the Max. Yeah.
Combine that with your experience in recovery.
Yeah, so we heard about this event that was happening in New
(22:07):
York. I don't know how I don't know
when you and I might call it a godshot, like where it's like,
how did this even come into our path?
And it was this storytelling event where you would invite a
woman or non binary person to share a personal story as it
relates to a common theme. And that would look like 20s,
(22:28):
thirties, 40s, fifties, sixties,70s plus.
And for me, it felt like, oh, this is a way to bring something
that has been instrumental in myrecovery to everyday people, non
addicts, essentially, right? Which is that shared
storytelling. It's not beautiful.
It's not in a it's not a Ted Talk.
(22:50):
It's not it's and I tell people all the time when they're coming
on the show, I'm like, this is not your opportunity to do a Ted
Talk. You just come tell your story,
your truth, say your truth aboutthe theme and the magic will
happen, right? And that's what happens in in 12
steps traditionally, right? It's like people, it could be
(23:12):
anyone, it could be any age, it could be any anything, right?
And they tell their story or portion of their story or they
sit, you know, one-on-one and they share their experience,
strength and hope on addiction recovery, how to live sober,
like all of those things, how they work the steps, whatever.
And I had women who were like very young, you know, people are
(23:35):
either sponsees or or even just every like other fellows who
were helping me. And then I had people, as you
know, 80s, nineties, like there are people still telling their
story in their late 90s right here in Toronto.
And they were helping me and they were my friends.
Like that was the thing too, is like I would get these looks
(23:56):
sometimes when I would be out with them, whether it was like
just going for coffee after a meeting or like with sponsors or
other fellows that I just was like looking for advice from.
And you could see them being like, well, that's, that's not
her mom and that's not her grandma, like, or it's not her
little sister or whatever. Like who is that person?
I'm like, that's my friend. Like that person helped me get
(24:17):
through major things, right? Like you do so much growing up
when you get sober. And so bringing it back to the
show, I'm like, this is like that, right?
This is where we go and we will share the story.
And instead of talking about sobriety or addiction, we're
gonna talk about, you know, yourbucket list or wise words that
someone shared with you stories about the female body.
(24:41):
What else? Those are just like a few of
them, right? And and you go on this journey,
right? And you go, you have your team
20s and they're always like vibrant and full of hope and a
little bit selfish and ego and kind of and then as you go on
and it starts to shed and these people become just so
(25:02):
authentically themselves. I don't know how old you are,
but like when you turn 40 as a woman, it's just like, it's a
really like atsn turning point where you're just like, I could
like no, don't care. Like I can think of random shit
that I was doing when I was younger, like going to the gym
and like being worried about howI looked or like holding in my
(25:23):
pee so that I don't like go to the bathroom as if someone's
going to like, like a guy is going to like know that I went
pee. It's just like bananas.
Oh, silly. And so it was, I don't know,
it's just, it's just you go on this and by 40s it's like, yes.
And, and by the time you hit 70s, they take the house down.
It is just like the show is. It does really pull from the
(25:50):
community and fellowship aspect that I learned in recovery
spaces. It is a safe space.
It is inviting. Like we want you to swear.
We want you to make a mistake. If you cry, that's OK, you know,
and and what somebody's story. That means everything to me that
I'm like, wow, like that is somebody else's.
It wasn't really. And that's that is it right.
(26:13):
When I go to like a meeting, I'mnot expecting that it's always
going to be amazing and that I'malways going to like it.
And so that became for me, one of my driving forces is like the
importance of intergenerational storytelling, the importance of
hearing from all ages and the importance of sharing everyday
(26:34):
stories and looking to the, you know, to the youth and also to
people who are older than yourself.
Like outside of that bracket. I think once you step outside of
like 10 years, it tends to be like, why?
Like who's this friend? It's like, no, they're my
friend. Why do why are we confined to
these like buying scenary positions where I can only be
(26:55):
friends with people who are like40 ish?
And women's voices, elevating women's voices, giving them
literally the microphone to speak in front of a crowd.
They're not professionals. These are people that we meet in
everyday life. People refer other women to us
and we don't want them to be rehearsed.
(27:17):
They really can't screw it up. They're telling their own story
and it's very personal. We've been doing this for almost
three years. We do them four times a year.
And so in October we have our 3rd anniversary and what's
exciting is one year ago we had teen 20s from our first show,
really amazing woman in Chelsea.And she asked us to kind of Co
(27:41):
host with her a dedicated show in honor of truth and
reconciliation with a an all indigenous lineup.
And we are doing that again thisyear.
So that has now become somethingthat we hope to do annually.
And then we've also partnered with the Canadian Women's
Foundation to do a show in Calgary and that's going to
happen in October. So it feels fantastic that we're
(28:03):
able to provide a platform for more women to tell stories and
more opportunities for people tolisten to and are generational,
you know, women again, or peoplethat represent as women, whoever
you want to phrase that. Yep, it's it's pretty exciting.
It's pretty exciting. And we also at our shows, we
(28:24):
have a marketplace. Yep.
So we'll bring in female owned small businesses and they can
come and sell their wares. Yep, for no cost.
Like we invite them just to like, come and participate.
Yep, we have food and beverage. We recently got sponsored by
Collective Arts. Yep.
So they'll have their amazing selection of non Elks, which
(28:45):
they are really great at, and wehave ASL live interpretation at
every show just to make it as inclusive as possible.
We heard that the deaf communityrarely have events to go to, and
so we wanted to be one of them. And we're still waiting for that
audience to really come out. I feel like they need to know
(29:06):
more, that it's there for them, but we're going to keep doing
it, yeah. Amazing And where do you where
do you see it going? Like where do you want it to go?
What's next on the horizon? Like that's big the Calgary and
and spreading out, but what's kind of the vision, I guess just
touching as many people as possible or.
Yeah, I think just having peoplebe heard and and the importance
of storytelling and and the intergenerational aspect of it.
(29:28):
Like it's one thing for us threeto sit and chat, but like it's
another to bring in, you know, someone who's a lot younger and
someone who might be a lot olderand to actually realize were not
that different. And we have no idea what stories
people are carrying with them, right?
It's not unlike why I wanted to be like, hey, I'm an addict,
(29:50):
right? Like I am a successful woman
running a marketing agency. I for all intents and purposes,
like look put together and I'm burning my life to the ground,
right? It's like it doesn't have to
look. It can look that way, but it can
also look like that. And so the shared stories of
like going, I would have looked at that person on the TTC and
(30:10):
written like, maybe that's not now.
I would. But most people might be like,
oh, that Gen. Z or like, you know, on their
phone or whatever. And meanwhile they're like
texting a doctor while they're recovering from stage 4 cancer,
right? Or like somebody in their 90s,
Like our first show that we wentto, we went to the New York show
and the Team 80s, I think at thetime told the story while
(30:34):
playing a ukulele about the orgies that she went to in Paris
in the like 1930s or 40s. I don't even know.
Do them the math ain't math. And but sometimes and you would
like this sweet little lady juststrumming away about her orgy,
right? And it tends to be sometimes the
most outrageous, which is again,not dissimilar from 12 step.
(30:56):
Like people with long term recovery are like more likely to
just like drop some story that you're just like what you did
what? And so that's what we love about
it. How about the woman at our show,
and I don't remember what team she was, but her first
journalism assignment was John Lennon.
'S assassination assassination so.
She was flown to New York and she was there.
(31:18):
She interviewed Elvis. Yeah, just like things that you
just, it's just, it's like a we always say it's like a big hug.
Like when you come to the show, it just feels like, wow, like
look at us, like look at humanity.
You can look back right at team 20s and remember being and
feeling, you know, as they do and look to the future and be
(31:41):
like, God, I I'll tell this likeone story.
So predominantly my team 70s. Sometimes I do a lot of the
speaker seeking and engage with them and I'm the only one that
hears the stories before they goon.
And so they will sometimes just call me and be like, yeah, I'm,
I'm not going to be able to do the show.
(32:03):
Good luck. And I'm like, OK, like, bye,
bye. And I want to be like, you've
been on the website. You want to do that.
And but then there's this part of me that's just like the lack
of apology that they're just like, yeah, I'm not going to be
able to do it. The lack of an excuse, right?
As women, I feel like we're like, Oh my God, I'm not going
(32:25):
to be able to come, but I'm really sorry.
Like I got to do this thing. It's like no, like no is a full
response and saying no, I'm not going to be able to make it.
I don't care that I'm on your website.
I don't care that I've done these things.
She obviously has something elsegoing on.
Who knows what it is. It's really none of my.
Business. Yeah.
And so as much as it's annoying,I also am like, wow, what is
(32:46):
that like to just be like, Nope,sorry so hard.
Yeah, like, imagine, imagine I just, like, texted you or sent
you a message and was like, yeah, we're not going to be able
to make it. Best of luck.
Like your reaction. What's your reaction?
You're going to be like, what the fuck?
Like why would that person do that?
My first reaction is she saw oneof my videos and got offended
by. It that's that's my first.
(33:07):
Reaction. I was, I was I'm in talks with,
you know, talking about partnership.
I'm talking to a treatment center right now and they
haven't answered me and like, I don't know.
So they hate you and. They don't want to.
They don't want to do anything with you.
We're the same. My my.
First thought is. Like they got a like I crossed
the line somewhere and and then I'm like, dude, I just shut up.
(33:29):
Just take a breath. People are busy.
I don't need a reason and they don't need to give you a reason,
right? People are allowed to do this.
Noah's a full sentence. I'm learning that too.
And, and as of late, yeah, one of the things that happened to
me when I started this podcast is like, I'm like, I'm learning
so much, right? And I never thought I'd be
(33:49):
learning so much about just every, not even just recovery,
just everything. Like I've had so many amazing
women in here. You're both of you included,
that are just blowing me away with some of the like things
that they say and the power and the shit that they've been
through. Oh, my God.
And, and to your point, it's like, if I saw you just walking
down the street, never would have thought that you were, you
(34:12):
know, sex trafficked or whatever, right?
Like just thank you for sharing that.
Right. And I think the other thing too
is when people share openly likethat specifically with the orgy
story and, and they're able to laugh about it, it gives women
space, gives everyone space. But in your specific scenario,
it gives women space to be like,Oh my God, I can, I can talk
about what I went through. I didn't even know like I was
(34:32):
allowed. I didn't know like it's.
Like when you do that, it gives others and I know from like the
importance of when someone says like, hey, I did that too, or
like, Hey, I also was so unreliable.
I had this great friend I could never show up for.
I did that too. I stole that too, you know.
(34:54):
And so that is what happens, right?
These there are obviously peoplethat come that are part of my
recovery community, but like these normies get to kind of
experience what I've been experiencing through shared
storytelling. And it is so amazing and
gratifying and just feels like, yeah, I, I don't, I can't
(35:15):
imagine not doing it. So going all the way back to
your original question, like continuing to expand, continuing
to hear from other voices. We are thinking about doing
another storytelling series that's in the works that will be
more inclusive. Inclusive in the sense that
anybody could come and tell a story because we have just seen
(35:37):
the magic of what we've been doing and how important it is
for for community and connectionand men are.
More than welcome. Oh, good.
I was gonna ask you. That yeah, it is not a.
Women only show. I think it has the name Women in
the title, but it is absolutely that makes me happy.
Yes. So we are like to.
See. You, yes.
(35:57):
Some of our actually. Our like biggest champions of
what we're doing are the men. Like there is one of our dear
friends. He's a DJ here in the city and
he saw one of our shows and he said it changed his life, 'cause
we know that, right? We know that someone can say
something to us and it can absolutely just be that like
truth bomb, that small nugget that like doesn't seem not the
(36:18):
like get your life together, butlike this little thing and
you're and it has that impact. My dad comes to almost every
show and he, my sister and I areare two the two daughters and he
says that he understands women more than he ever has because of
the show, because you we hear the stories.
(36:39):
We hear the like really big and scary stories about what it's
like to be a woman, which which is true, a lot of the stuff that
is going on. But to actually just hear us
talk about like our bodies or like what it feels like to age
or, you know, dreams that we have and aspirations.
That's not always out there, right?
It's everyday people, everyday women and everyday stories.
(37:03):
I think it'll. Help my marriage too.
So I'm that's what I'm thinking like I'm excited about that.
It's it feels like a. Peek behind the curtain, another
dear friend of mine says. Like, it really feels like a
window into like, women that youwouldn't necessarily get and
there's no secrets. We're just offering people a
(37:23):
chance to actually listen. There's no secrets being told.
Yeah, no, not at all. It's, it's the storytelling and
that's when, you know, when I was saying it's not a Ted Talk,
it's you telling your story for,you know, 7 minutes and that's
it. Leave it on the like, leave it
there, bring it and drop it. And a lot of people have said,
like, it's been really catharticfor them to, like, come and it
(37:46):
gave them confidence to go on todo other things or, you know,
they realized it wasn't that scary to do that thing or
overcoming it was like, empowered them to start doing
more of it. Like all of that.
And there's other people who just came and told their story
and that was it. Or are you all for an organ?
Yeah. Oh yeah.
So. This is a this is a crazy story.
(38:07):
OK, so we had Raheel Raza Raza on the show who's like a bad
ass. Like look her up Team 70s.
Formidable. Woman.
Yes, and. She was talking about being on
dialysis and needing a kidney. And this is this kind of goes
back to the story about like, I remember the story and she was
(38:28):
like, cool, but it wasn't like it didn't have any impact.
What happened for you? I thought she needs to live.
Longer, I'll give her my kidney.I met her, I just.
Met her, she needs to live longer.
She does. She does incredible work and she
is so impressive and so I asked if she if she wanted my kidney.
(38:50):
We aren't a blood match but at that point mentally I'd given my
kidney away. So I started calling people and
asking if anyone needs a kidney,no joke.
And I ended up meeting you're a Facebook.
Person. Someone said, hey, I know
someone who needs a kidney. And I wrote to him and said,
hey, how's it going? What's your blood type?
(39:11):
And his name is Felix. And he is in recovery as well.
19 years, I think so. Yep.
And he's a social worker. He became.
Yeah, I know him. You.
Know him. Yeah, I know, I know.
Him. OK, well.
He's. He's the recipient of my kidney.
Yeah, isn't that. Crazy I.
Didn't, I didn't know, like you know this stuff, right?
Like I'm so woo woo. I'm like, what are the chances
(39:32):
'cause I didn't actually even know him, but I'm not sure.
So he's a friend. Now everyone's like, do you know
him? I'm like, now I do.
Now he's a great friend. So yeah, he's a he's a good
dude. Yeah.
So. He he needs.
A kidney and now he's got 1, so there's so much.
Going through my mind right now,I just like, but that's the real
rude impact. Of this show like I wouldn't
have met the impact of the storytelling and.
The the certain thing that can move you, right.
(39:55):
And even when that happened, Kirsten wasn't or didn't quite
remember. My dad received an organ.
He was an organ recipient 22 or 23 years ago.
So there's just like all of thisstuff that's just like how?
And it all came. From someone coming and telling
their story and not saying, hey,give me your kidney, just coming
(40:15):
and telling a story that has an impact like you never know what
you're saying and the impact it might have on someone.
And so that's why we feel it's such a like beautiful.
I mean, I mean the the. Moment where the universe God
higher power, whatever you want to call it put a thought into
your mind to start thinking likeobviously your kidney was not
(40:35):
meant to go to that woman, but it was meant like it's just
yeah, it's supposed and like you're like yeah, I'm not
satisfied with with no for an answer to my tidney yeah, she'd.
Already given it away, she was just like, well, I might as well
do this. And then just like calling out
people being like, hey, do you know anyone who needs a kidney?
But again, storytelling, right? It's just like getting out of
(40:57):
our own way, telling our truth. I was gonna do this thing and
now I'm doing this thing and you.
And the trajectory is never, it sometimes is what it looks like
it's gonna be, but other times it's so unpredictable, right?
It's not necessarily that she gave it to her and they have
this great story. Instead, it's something entirely
different that somehow comes back around to me, 'cause she
(41:19):
was like, oh, my best friend's in recovery.
Oh, 'cause he had a website. And he's wrote his story.
Here's who I am. I was in journalism and I
needed. To.
Be in recovery. And I remember messaging him and
saying like, I get it. And so it is just serendipitous.
Yeah, that's. Incredible.
Oh. My God, is it odd or is it God?
(41:41):
As I like to say, how can you not?
It's just life is so much easierand I believe in a directing
force, guiding force, whatever you want to call it in magic.
I call it magic. Yeah.
I mean, it's so much. More fun let's.
Believe in magic because then, then the possibilities.
Are endless, right? Who knows?
You mentioned that you you know.You reached out for help to her
(42:03):
13 years ago, if you had to. If there's somebody listening
right now that maybe is in that position where they don't know
what what that looks like, what do you say to that person?
How did you ask for help? Oh gosh, I.
(42:24):
I you know that's a. That is a tricky question 'cause
I'm not sure. I think I was desperate, right?
I was like I need help big time I.
Think you have no. Idea like we were just talking
about what that outcome is. Don't listen to that first
thought that's telling you oh, that there it's too much.
(42:46):
They're not going to help me. They're going to tell other
people, you know, it could happen, but you're going to be
OK. It's way better than handling it
on your own. Like I think it's impossible.
Personal opinion, I think it's. Impossible to attack any mental
health on your own, whatever that looks like, whether it's
(43:06):
outside help from like when I think about my journey, I have a
psychiatrist, I have a therapist, I take my medication
as prescribed. I've gone to a a I've been a
part of she recovers like I've I've read all of the books about
different modalities to recoveryand those have become my tools.
Speaking my truth became my, my tool, like being able to say
(43:29):
that. And if you're asking somebody,
you just have no idea that that they might need help at some
point, right? Like or that they know somebody
like the interconnectivity of speaking your truth, saying your
truth, even if your truth is messy and confusing.
I think I even remember saying like, I don't know if this is
going to stick and it didn't. I relapsed after that and but it
(43:55):
was worth it. And then I think, you know, the
fear around asking someone who you might know is in recovery.
I think that's there a lot, right?
Like I'm not going to call my sponsor.
I'm not going to like tell people in the rooms what's
actually going on or I'm not going to tell my therapist
what's going on is problematic. Right?
If because for me to be able to take that shitstorm like that
(44:19):
horrible burning down of life and like be able to spin it into
someone else's gold to be like, hey, me too, like I did that
too, or I let me help you. Let me show you someplace.
Let me tell you how I did it. Let me is the greatest gift to
take literally a burning dumpster fire of a life and kind
of take it and respin it and repurpose it into somebody
(44:42):
else's. Like not feeling alone is just
that's been the greatest thing And Gen. women has done that for
that that for other people, theyfeel that way.
But women come up after we encouraged them to like they
reconnect. They end up doing their own
things. Like someone will tell me like,
yeah, like we hosted A facilitated a recovery thing
(45:03):
together or we did this other thing together.
It's not even through me anymore.
I'm just like a conduit. We are a conduit to community
and right now real stories in a world that has a lot of fake or
a lot of performative, a lot of gloss to it.
I think people are craving it. What's?
Really funny. Is you got tripped up when he
(45:24):
talked about you asking for helpand I'm going to identify that
Jen doesn't ask for help. That's what happens there 'cause
that's why I don't realize you were like, I don't know.
I don't ask for help. You don't.
She does not ask for help. That's true.
So I think it's the speaking your truth part which almost had
a few of us realize that that was your way of asking for help
(45:49):
or acknowledging. But you did like the reading.
All the things you've supported yourself with, those are all the
tools, but you tried to do it all yourself by doing all those
things you didn't technically ask for help.
True, That's true. And so we now know.
Sometimes when you need help, you still want to ask for help,
but you want to take care of everybody.
I'm like that. I'll deal.
Deal with it and then I'll tell you about it after, Yeah.
(46:09):
Or, you know, one thing that I tend to do is like, I will
intellectually I'm like, but, but, but here's all the things.
But emotionally, I'm not tellingyou how I was feeling.
I'm telling you, yeah, I'm a drug addict.
Yeah, these things happened. Yeah, I did this.
But then when you get into like the feelings part of it, it's
it's definitely, it trips me up.And you're right.
Asking for help is like very challenging for me.
(46:32):
So what's coming to mind is likethe 1000 LB phone, like it's so
hard to like really do that and especially as someone who is
self-sufficient, right, who who does for the most part like
handle things right. But it's like, how do I do that?
How do I let people in? And that's the beautiful thing
(46:52):
too is it's like a work in progress.
Like I'm not, I don't have the answer.
I don't know. You tell me.
How do you ask for help? I I mean.
So there's a lot there. You you said that in a nice way,
though, to the point where it brought out that her response.
And so my first thought and I will answer your question.
I'm not, I'm not dodging the question asking.
(47:13):
For help. It made me think asking for help
doesn't have to be hey I need help.
Something signified you that sheneeded help and there was a seed
planted along the way and that made it easier down down the
road for you to know that there was people in your life that
love you and will support you nomatter what sometimes.
(47:34):
Just showing up is the help too,right?
And we talked about that before.Just like.
Being there and like, sitting and and not telling her what to
do, not fixing it. Not everything's gonna be OK.
You know, like just presence, the energy of two people sitting
together is. Just as good sometimes I.
Struggle with that so much. I want to fix you now.
(47:57):
This is this. Is what you need to ask people.
When they complain or vent or whatever, do you need me to
listen or give advice, right? Do you want to hug or do you
want to fit you? Like you want to dig in?
And I mean, we've even asked that of each other at times.
Like do you want to just eat icecream or like, are we cutting
off ponytails? Like what are we doing?
(48:18):
Yeah, I think, yeah, open communication, opening yourself
up, though. That's just it cuz as soon as
you were opening yourself up, that's when we.
Were. Able.
To offer. Support, cuz we recognized that
there was a need for it. So I think it's opening yourself
up and that vulnerability of saying, oh, if people love me
(48:41):
unconditionally, it's so much about that, right?
And when you open it up, then wecan all come in and offer that.
I'll give you an example of how I.
Just thought of this now becauseI do not ask for help.
Well, at all I do not. And it's not that I maybe it is.
I mean, it's eagle at the end ofthe day no matter what, but it's
(49:01):
not so much that I think. No, I, I.
It is. It's I think that you will think
less of me. Yeah, but so I'm thinking of a
specific story where so I struggle with body dysmorphia.
I've opened up about that. And to our earlier points, the
more I've opened up about that, you would not believe I've had
(49:23):
10 times the amount of guys cometo me then looking for sober
help, that guys that are alreadyin recovery saying what you,
you're so fit. That's me too.
Like I struggle with it too. And so that's been a blessing in
disguise. That's been hard to open up
about because again, my brain islike, you're in good shape.
They're going to think you're a liar or you know what I mean?
Like all this bullshit in my head.
I was standing in the kitchen with my wife 2-3 maybe a month
(49:47):
ago, about to go to a retreat, asober retreat with the rehab
that I work at. And.
She had. We were getting into, we got
into an argument and I'm gonna try to share my story and not
hers because I can often do that.
But she was just, she's bringingup times in my addiction 'cause
(50:07):
she saw me at 8 years and then she saw me in my relapse.
So she's seen Jekyll and Hyde through and through.
She knows me at my core now, which is a blessing and a curse
at the same time, right? So we were just we were in a bit
of an argument and she was just like reminding me, you know,
when people like and you're and you're telling you thing and
you're like, Oh my God, forgot. I just forgot.
(50:28):
I did that, I forgot, I did that, I forgot.
And I'm just like taking it. And I'm, I'm literally praying
in my head because I'm like, I again, I want to make excuses.
I want to say it this and that, and I'm just like, God help me,
just take this right now, because she needs to give it to
me, right? She needs to give it to me and
so I needed help in that moment for the I'm going to relate it
back to the bodies morphia thingnow.
(50:50):
I went into my fridge so. We the fight ended and I don't
know why this happened. I call it act of Providence,
whatever. I went into my fridge and I had
been buying Ozempic online, OK to, to deal with and I'm doing
this in sobriety not long ago and I'm hitting myself with it.
Maybe whatever every week. That's how I relapsed the first
time is I started with things and not telling people right.
(51:12):
So we get into this fight. She ends it whenever we're,
we're kind of on our own, takingour own things, processing it.
I go into my fridge, take it outand I go in the bathroom right
in front of her. Like usually I'm more secretive
or whatever. And she I walk out and she goes,
the fuck are you doing? Like when she thought I was
doing steroids again, 'cause that was another part of my
story and I had a moment where Iwas like.
(51:34):
I could lie about this and get away.
With it, maybe. Or I could tell the truth and
I'm up to it. And I paused, which is a miracle
in of itself. And I told her the truth.
I said this is Olympic. I've been doing it for a while.
I'm struggling with this and. She didn't yell at me.
She didn't. Judge me.
She didn't. She just accepted me in the
moment and I was able to throw it out in the garbage and then
(51:56):
go on to this retreat and share my story with a bunch of people
that I didn't really know. But I opened up about it and and
people came up to me and said thank you for that.
Thank you for that. You know, you really helped me,
I think. That was a pivotal.
Moment in my recovery again because like I said to you
secrets were my downfall time and time again.
I think that's with all mental health is secrets, right?
(52:18):
But especially in addiction, it starts with a little spark in
the back and then you're throwing gasoline on it every
day. I think like without a doubt in
my mind that if I had not had that experience, if I had not
thrown it out, if I had not toldon myself caught myself,
whatever you want to call it, I think I would have eventually
relapsed, right. So it's like that's how I ask
for help to answer your questiona long winded way.
(52:40):
Yeah, yeah. I need to get caught.
Yeah, I really, I need to get caught.
I need to tell myself by gettingcaught because it's so hard for
me to say, hey, I'm struggling with this.
I don't know what to do. That's a great level of
self-awareness. Though, Yeah, and I think.
It's helpful when we have peoplethat see us, right, that that
that can say like you don't ask for help.
(53:01):
So I know that I need to come inthere, right?
And to be able to be accepting of that, right?
And to meet people where they are is a beautiful thing, right?
And I think that's what your wife did in that moment.
And then to go and share it, theretreat, like it's just, there's
so much in just telling your truth.
Tell your truth, whatever it is.It doesn't need to be rude.
(53:24):
It doesn't need to be like yelled, you know, at the tree,
like scream. Yeah, like it's it can be like,
I'm not OK, right. It could be, I might need help.
It could be I just need you to sit with me.
Like, whatever that truth is in that moment, I think is the
power. And that's what happens at our
event is like in that moment. And I will tell the
(53:45):
storytellers, if your, if your story changes after you've told
me what you think you're gonna say, great.
That's fine. I'm not gonna be like, oh, that
wasn't what you told me. No, I'm like.
That that's that could happen, right.
It's the same way, you know, youjust like get up there, tell
your truth as it relates to the topic, the theme even that
(54:05):
sometime is a bit, you know, people have done like spoken
word. Another person, you know, didn't
honor themselves in doing something in theater school and
they performed their soliloquy that they never did because they
were so like they just didn't prioritize themselves.
And so they stepped to the side and performed it.
(54:26):
People were bawling, right? And then there's other people
who tell like crazy stories, youknow, about their sex life in
Team 70s. At our last show had these nudes
that she'd posed for in Inner 20s and they were from.
She shared them all. She.
Put them on the. Stage.
She brought them, she brought them.
(54:47):
She told the whole story. And then she laid them out, and
there they were, her news in her20s.
Oh my God. And we?
Loved it like. People eat it up right?
When someone tells the truth, it's like what you said, it
gives others, you know, I hate, kind of don't love the word
permission, but it it tells someone else like, hey, that's
OK. And we want the show to feel
like that. I don't want you to look at it
(55:09):
like a Ted Talk and be like, I could never do that.
Like I'm not. That's not.
I want you to be like, I got a story.
I want to do that. Yeah.
I got a story. I could do that.
Come on up. Right.
You know, we talk about them notbeing professional storytellers
and they are, they're everyday women.
Some of them are like, that is, you know, they do tell stories
or they're a writer. They're in the public eye.
(55:30):
But it could just be like someone like just you see it,
you feel moved. Let's go.
Come on up. Tell your story.
Wow. And two, I mean, there's so much
magic that probably happens in that.
I love it. I'm excited to come.
I'm I'm more excited that I'm allowed and invited because that
was my first thought when we first started.
I was like, man, I'm never gonnabe able to go.
(55:52):
No come like. We encourage everybody, all
ages, like everybody to come like it really is a beautiful
evening. I know you will love it.
I mean, there's nothing better. Than raw, authentic honesty,
open mind, like especially coming out of, you know, in I'm
pretending that this isn't the real world, but the real world
(56:14):
with social media. And you know, that's my new
addiction nowadays. And it's just like, is this
real? I don't really know.
You know, are you crying? You're crying, you look like
you're acting. I don't know.
Right? Yeah.
I was watching a video the otherday and the girl was crying and,
and it looked like a legitimate thing.
And then someone was like, this is a satire account.
And I was like, what the fuck? Like, Oh my God, you know?
(56:34):
And I looked at her videos. And it was.
And I was like, man, you don't know what anyways.
Well, we intentionally don't. Air our shows online.
It's the moment. Yeah, it's the moment.
And also, people are sharing very personal stories, and
they're choosing to share it with a room full of people and
not the Internet. So we intentionally make it
about that night, 11 time only Night Circus.
(56:55):
Yep. Yeah.
So when's the next show? We have 3.
Upcoming So first up we have ourTruth and Reconciliation, all
Indigenous, that's on Wednesday,September 24th.
Then we have our Calgary show which is in October 2nd at the
Commons Hemingway Room. Hemingway Room.
(57:18):
And then our three-year anniversary October show is on
October 23, October 23rd, Thursday, October. 23rd.
It's at the lounge at. Live Nation, which is in Liberty
Village. And we do.
Actually have a show coming up in November in Hamilton.
Yeah. So we're really starting to,
like, pick up speed and try to bring more and more of these to
(57:40):
life. Love it.
And where can we find you? Generationwomen.
Dot CA and there are links to tickets there as well.
Yep, and you have Instagram as well.
Yep, we do, which is. Generation.
Women, I'll link it in there. Yeah, I'll link it.
Yeah, I'll link. Everything.
Yeah. Thank you.
And our tickets are? On Eventbrite.
Too perfect. Amazing.
Thanks so much for coming. Down.
It was a pleasure to meet you and to see you again.
(58:02):
Yep, I I hope our paths will cross again and I'm sure they
will. I'm excited to to go in and
you're coming to the. Show.
Yeah, you'll see me. You're getting a.
Phone call, yeah. You're coming?
Yeah. No.
Amazing. Thanks so much.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thanks. For listening.
Please help us grow the channel and like, share and subscribe
for more content. The discussions and stories
(58:24):
shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational
purposes only. This content is not a substitute
for professional medical advice,addiction treatment, or therapy.
If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction,
please consult A licensed physician, addiction specialist,
or mental health professional. You are no longer alone.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.