October 21, 2025 • 46 mins
If you’ve ever struggled with addiction, relapse, or finding long-term sobriety, this conversation will inspire you.
Host Anthony speaks with Allison, an intake counselor at Addiction Rehab Toronto, about her journey from active addiction to seven years of recovery. They unpack what really causes relapse, the importance of spirituality, practical tools like journaling and gratitude lists, and why sober support systems matter long after treatment ends.
You’ll hear personal experiences about triggers at social events, navigating shame, rebuilding trust with family, and how traveling and living sober can be joyful. Whether you’re new to recovery, supporting a loved one, or looking to deepen your sobriety, this episode offers hope and actionable advice.
Subscribe for more real recovery stories and tools for staying sober.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I found myself driving in the area that I used to use and just
driving around and there was no reason for me to be in that
area. So looking back, it was like,
did I want to see somebody that was using and then maybe join
them? Or in my mind I was like, Oh no,
I want people to see that I'm doing really well, but I really
wasn't doing well. Maybe on the outside, right
(00:21):
manager to sober house, you know, sponsoring all these women
doing the 12 steps, going to meetings.
But I really wasn't doing the work internally and I wasn't
telling on myself. And I remember we had a
gratitude meeting at my at my group.
It was just after Christmas and I went to the meeting and then
(00:42):
the person that I was dating at the time called me and told me
he had relapsed. And my best thinking said I'm
going to go and save him. And I was in no place to do
that. I should have asked maybe some
of my guy friends to to go and help him.
And I started driving. And you know, it talks about
like the mental obsession, but there's also like a mental blank
(01:02):
spot. I knew in that moment that I was
going to, I was going to pick upthat night and I thought I was
just going to do 1, which is funny when you say it out loud,
but I really did think that. And and then I was off to the
races from from that moment on. Hi there, welcome back or
welcome to Recovering Out Loud Podcast, the show where we get
real about mental health and addiction.
(01:25):
I'm so glad you're here. If you or someone you love is
struggling with drugs or alcohol, please reach out for
help. Send me a message on all social
media platforms at Recovering Out Loud Pod or by e-mail at
recoveringoutloudpod@gmail.com. You are no longer alone.
(02:00):
I went to a wedding last night and I'm just like, really tired.
I didn't. Yeah, it was good.
It was. It was more, it was a high
school reunion almost, because it was like all these people I
went to high school with. Oh, wow.
And so that can be kind of overwhelming sometimes.
Yeah. But like, it was most of most of
my friends, which was nice. It's interesting to see.
(02:23):
So I'm in my 30s and most of thepeople that were in their mid
mid 30s, I would say the amount of people that are still going
like hard. And that's not to say that see
my, my assumption is when I see people like that, I'm like, oh,
they must be doing it all the time, right?
Because like, that's how you know, I do it.
I'm assuming that's how you. Did it too.
And that's not the case, right? Like those people are probably
(02:46):
not going to go for another month and they're going to be
fine. And so I made a video about this
this morning. But one thing that really helps
me 'cause I still get, and again, I'm early on, again in
recovery, but I still get those,those triggers, those thoughts
of what is it for me, it's like,oh, that looks fun, right?
That that looks fun. Like fear of missing.
(03:07):
Out. Yeah, that would be nice.
I remember when and then like insert fun memory right of of
doing like coke, you know, I don't know there's probably like
AI probably have like a 4 minute, you know, memories of
when it was fun right those like4 minute intervals and then
after that it was just absolute hell.
(03:29):
But one thing that really helps me is excuse me, I just I just
don't use like that, right? I don't drink like that.
I'm still going today. If I if I picked up of.
Course, of course. And then Sunday morning I'm
still going and Monday morning I'm still going.
So that, that, that gives me comfort, right?
But a lot of time. And that's why I was looking
forward to this today too, because like I have to talk
(03:50):
about it, right? Like I can do all these things.
I can pray, I can all these tools that I was taught in
recovery. But like, if I keep it in here,
that's how I go back every single time, right?
Absolutely. So thanks for coming down,
Allison. I appreciate it.
Why don't you start with tell usa little bit about yourself and
what you do for work. OK, so I'm Allison.
(04:14):
I've been in recovery for going on 7 years.
I've worked at Addiction Rehab Toronto going on five years
before that. I, my life looks a lot
different. Active use was a really long
time. I'd say about 16 or 17 years.
(04:35):
I was using hard drugs at the beginning.
I mean, when I was 1617, it was fun.
I can honestly say that. And then, you know, at about
1819 years old, it started to become problematic and, and my
life just went downhill. I wasn't employable.
I, I couldn't keep a job. I would, I would go to multiple
(04:57):
different schools and, and get different, different degrees for
things and, and never be able tostick to anything.
And then in 2016, I went to my fifth treatment center by that
time, and I was 34 years old. And from there I stayed there 75
(05:17):
days. And then from there I went to a
sober living. And that's, that's kind of where
my recovery kind of took off. I actually started to have hope
and, and, and know that maybe I could do this.
You know, before that, I was always the type of person that
would go to a treatment center. I would, I would get into
(05:39):
trouble, my family would either give me a choice.
It was like court ordered treatment centers or, or go to
jail essentially. And so I obviously I picked the
nice treatment centers and but after I would leave the
treatment center, I would just, I wouldn't have a solution.
And I, and I just, I didn't hearabout the 12 steps too much and
(06:01):
meetings and that kind of stuff.So, so I just would go back to,
to my old life, what I knew best, I, I hung around some
pretty dangerous people. I got myself into some pretty
dangerous situations at in a young age, throughout my 20s.
It was, you know, really hard drugs and it was terrible. 28 I
(06:25):
got pregnant and I had my daughter and I mean, I was
sober, but it wasn't recovery. It was more dry.
And, and then when she was about3, I went back to, to that life
and, and you know, it was a longroad to get here.
And so when I went to that treatment center and then I went
to a sober living, it was a private sober living and I
(06:49):
stayed there for almost a year, a little bit over a year, I
think. And in that time I really
learned what recovery was. I, I got a sponsor, I worked 12
steps. I went to lots of meetings,
start sponsoring women. And when it was time for me to
move out on my own, I started towork at the, at the sober house.
(07:10):
I, it just started off on the weekends and then I moved to, to
doing throughout the week. And then I started to manage the
house. So at about 2 1/2 years, I, I,
I, you know, they, they talk about unmanageability, right
when, when you're not, when you're not using and you know,
(07:31):
it comes back into your life if you're, if you're not working a
solid program. And, and that's kind of what
happened to me. So I stopped going to meetings.
I stopped working with women. I was working way too many
hours. I was helping my mother because
she, she fell and she fractured her leg.
And like, these are all excuses really.
(07:53):
And eventually I, I ended up picking up again at about just
shy of three years and it was really bad.
It was about 2 1/2 three months,but it was, it was terrible.
I almost died a couple of times.Somebody saved my life.
I was, I was passed out in a bathtub and, and somebody saved
my life. And so I went to a back to a
(08:15):
treatment, the same treatment center.
My sister picked me up from a pretty dangerous area with a
friend of mine that's in in the program and I went back to
treatment and I stayed there for45 days.
And I don't know, something shifted and I, I knew the things
that I needed to do and I knew the things that I needed to not
(08:37):
do. And so, you know, the, the last
6 1/2, pretty much 6 1/2 years, I've just been, you know, really
focusing on my career, my recovery, my daughter, my
relationships, my family. I have a really big family.
I have three sisters. I have 7 nieces and nephews.
(09:00):
You know, Sunday lunches at my at my family's house is, is loud
and lots of kids running around And sometimes I have to pinch
myself because the life that I was living on the streets like I
was, I was actually driving on the way down here and it was
like by all the different areas that I used to like you could
(09:21):
say I lived, but really it was just, you know, kind of using
and being on the streets. And so, you know, then I, I went
from, from the sober living working there and then he called
me back after I got sober again and he asked me if I wanted my
job back. And so I started working there
(09:41):
for about 6 months and I just wanted to something a little bit
more. So during COVID, I went back to
school and I graduated with honors, which was pretty
incredible for a person like me.And, and I started doing my
placement at Addiction Rehab Toronto.
And I would say that that's justkind of where I, I kind of fell
(10:03):
into the field because of my, mylived experience.
I think that it's, it's such a special place to work.
I absolutely love everybody thatI work with.
My bosses are, are very supportive.
You know, I've met you through through art and you know, I get
(10:24):
to wake up every day and I get to go to a job that I absolutely
love. Sometimes it's a it can be a
little bit overwhelming, a little bit stressful, but I
think that today I'm able to, tohandle that stress much better
because of my recovery. So now I do intake.
So I went from, from working as a counsellor, I, I also do
(10:46):
counselling as well. But my primary role is intake
counselor. And I absolutely love that role
because I get to see them come into the doors and then I get to
see them when they're leaving. Yeah.
That's what I was going to ask you is like, you get to see
this, you know, these shells of human beings come in and I
remember every time I've I still, I have a picture from one
of my intakes that I, I will never delete because it just, I
(11:10):
just, it brings me back to that feeling of like utter defeat.
And you know, my hair is all over the place and it looked
like I hadn't showered in a longtime, but I'll, I'll never
forget that, that walking back like I've been to three and
walking into every all three treatment centers, like that's
a, a memory burned into my brain.
And, and you know, for like whenI'm at a wedding last night, I,
(11:30):
I really pull up those memories right?
Of like, where does it lead me? Right back into that door where
I can't even speak. I don't even know who I am
anymore. I'm just not myself, right?
Completely. Yeah.
So that's an interesting perspective that you have there.
I wanna go back to the so at 2 1/2 years when you went back out
because I can relate to that. I went back out after having
(11:51):
years as well. Do you remember what sort of was
going through your mind when that?
Because in my experience, relapse doesn't, it doesn't just
happen overnight, right? There's like a lot of planning,
a lot of thoughts, a lot of guilt and shame about the
thoughts. Do you remember like what?
What that what that thought process was like before you
picked up? You know, I, I don't have the
greatest memory and, but I do remember the, the moments
(12:13):
leading up to it. So I had a sponsor and she would
tell me, you know, you're not, you're not doing the
inventories. It's like, you know, like
checking in at the end of the night.
You're not coming to meetings. I started, I started a meeting
in my area. I wasn't going to the meetings.
I started to concentrate on my relationship at the time and,
(12:36):
and all these things. And I was really drained and I
was working too much and all this unmanageability without
drugs and alcohol. And I remember, you know, I had
a prayer meditation room in my condo.
I stopped praying, stopped meditating, I stopped talking
about it. And what's interesting is I'm
(12:57):
not much of a drink. Like I, I drink alcoholically,
but drinking is not really my thing.
But I had a reservation about drinking and I didn't tell
anybody about it. I found myself, I was telling my
friend this story the other day.I found myself driving in the
area that I used to use and justdriving around and there was no
(13:20):
reason for me to be in that area.
So looking back, it was like, did I want to see somebody that
was using and then maybe join them or in my mind I was like,
Oh no, I want people to see thatI'm doing really well, but I
really wasn't doing well. Maybe on the outside right
manager to sober house, you know, sponsoring all these women
(13:41):
doing the 12 steps, going to meetings.
But I really wasn't doing the work internally and I wasn't
telling on myself. And I remember the, the we had
a, a gratitude meeting at my, atmy group.
It was just after Christmas and I went to the meeting and then
the person that I was dating at the time called me and told me
(14:03):
he had relapsed. And my best thinking said I'm
going to go and save him. And I was in no place to do
that. I should have asked maybe some
of my guy friends to to go and help him.
But and I started driving and you know, it talks about like
the mental obsession, but there's also like a mental blank
spot. I knew in that moment that I was
(14:25):
going to, I was going to pick upthat night and I thought I was
just going to do 1, which is funny when you say it out loud,
but I really did think that and and then I was off to the races
from from that moment on. Yeah, that's interesting.
It's it's almost like your brainstarts to look for excuses to to
jump back into that life. And yeah, you're, you're like
(14:49):
constantly scanning the area. And that's interesting that you
drove around and then, yeah, I can relate to like the, for me,
it was the ADHD medication. It was like I, I had the the
right thought in my in my mind. And you mentioned telling on
yourself that is like, I try to preach that so often with guys
that I work with and on this podcast as well, every time I
(15:10):
relapse, it was that, yeah, it was that it was like, I have
this idea I'm gonna hold it backhere and it's just gonna keep
getting bigger and bigger until eventually it leads to, to
action, right. So being an intake counsellor at
at Addiction Rehab Toronto, you see a lot of people come in.
What, what would you say is likethe number one people in your
(15:32):
opinion that like don't I don't,I, I never like saying fail
because it's not a failure at all, but that don't kind of get
the recovery thing. Like what?
What do you think the biggest reason is when they leave
treatment? A, a lot of the time it's the
continuum of care. You can come into treatment and
you can be there 306090 days, which is great and it's a
(15:53):
beginning. But if you leave treatment and
you just go back to exactly whatyou were doing before, you're
not going to be able to sustain recovery.
And so I often say, you know, if, if it's, if it's not 12
steps, then maybe look into SMART Recovery or something.
Something needs to change, you know, some people need need a
(16:14):
little bit of extra support and then sober living is is the next
option. I didn't go back to sober living
and on my after my relapse, but I do truly believe that if I
didn't go to that sober living initially in 2016, I don't think
that I would be sober today. I really needed to learn how to
live outside of treatment, and having that extra support was
(16:37):
was crucial. Yeah, was absolutely crucial.
Yeah, and, and it's a good pointtoo, because, you know, for a
long time when I, when I came back from my relapse, there was
these thoughts of like, oh, I, Ilost it all right.
But that, that's a prime exampleof tools that were built into
your brain that you were able tolater go back, pick up on right,
and and bring back out and use again.
(17:00):
So you, you don't, you don't lose any of that time.
You don't lose those tools that you're taught in recovery.
And so, yeah, I did the sober living thing too.
I found that for me, the biggesthelp at any treatment center
I've ever been to was like, justjust listening to what they told
me to do, right. And when I work with people now
that are getting into, into treatment, I always, you know,
(17:22):
it's the mom's calling and it's the fifth again, same thing,
fifth treatment center, right? What's going to be different
this time? And I ask them sometimes I'm
like, what do you think the missing piece is, right?
Like, did you listen to every single thing the counselor said
to do? Right.
And it's funny that I'm saying this out loud because what, in
my last treatment center, they recommended that I extend to 60
(17:43):
days. And, you know, I had eight years
of recovery and I was, I was like, I know what I'm doing, you
know what I mean? And it's like that utter
deflation of ego had to take place again.
And it wasn't until I said it out loud that I'm a defiant
alcoholic, an addict, that something clicked for me where I
was like, I was able to accept the fact, even though even
still, looking back, my brain will go, yeah, you know, you
(18:05):
probably could have got away with 30, right?
And it's like, no, dude, like you needed to listen and it
doesn't matter what it looked like it you needed to listen to
what other people were saying, right?
And then just apply it in your life.
Yeah, like taking direction and remaining teachable and being
humble. I've worked with clients before
where they're like, I know, I know, I know.
I'm like, no you don't. That's a dangerous word.
(18:28):
Because I used to say it myself and I know, I know that I, I
need to be able to, to listen tosomebody that came before me
that knows what they're doing and I need to follow direction
because my, my thinking and my way of life was not working.
Yeah, it's so true. You're, you're a spiritual
person, right? I I know that from you.
(18:49):
What does faith spirituality mean to you and why do you think
it's important in recovery? So you know in the big book it
says self will run riot. So if I'm living on myself, will
I'll get myself into trouble every time.
And so when I started the program, I was a bit skeptical
(19:11):
with, with spirituality, with the word God and, and those kind
of things. And, you know, throughout the
years of recovery, sometimes I'm, I'm very spiritual and then
sometimes I, I, I fall off the beam a little bit and I have to
get myself back to it. I think that, you know, me
driving the bus is not a good idea.
I'm not a good driver in a sense.
(19:32):
And so spirituality looks like, you know, turning my thoughts
and my actions over to the care of God or whatever I believe in
instead of my thoughts and actions.
So it's not always just to do with drugs and alcohol.
It's to do with should I go to this place or should I hang out
with these people? Or, you know, do I go to this
(19:54):
event? Like I, I kind of like have
something to talk to and and be directed by because, you know,
for such a long time, my plans and ideas, they get me into
trouble and, and get me into places where where I don't want
to be. And you know, my life today is,
(20:16):
is so beautiful. It's, it's a miracle because I
couldn't go, I couldn't go like,you know, 20 minutes without
picking up. It was really bad.
I, when I went into treatment in2016, I was, I was a little over
£100 and I was, I was dying, youknow, from the inside and out.
(20:38):
I needed spirituality. I needed something to help guide
me. And you know, even just doing
prayer meditation, I feel like when, when I pray, I'm I'm
asking for direction and when I meditate, I'm listening for the
answers. What does meditation look like
to you? How do you, how do you tell
(20:58):
someone to meditate? I always struggled with with
that one, Yeah. So my mind sometimes goes like
1,000,000 miles a minute. So I like guided meditations.
Personally, I'm not very, very good with sitting still with,
with just quiet or maybe even a little bit of music in the
(21:20):
background. I like something that's guiding
me. Sometimes I'll just do use the
calm app and, and just ask for guided meditation on stress or
guided meditation on faith or guided meditation on anxiety,
whatever they, whatever I'm feeling in that moment.
And I just try and sit still in the morning before I get to work
(21:41):
because I, I like to be groundedand, and kind of just feeling
calm when I get to work. And then also at night time
after I do, I write out my inventory.
I send it to my, my sponsor. She's fantastic.
I really love working with her. And and then I just finished it
off with the meditation and I usually fall asleep.
So you do that night then. Interesting.
(22:03):
Yeah, yeah, I find that meditation is one of those
things where it's like you can'tthere's no doing it right,
right. It's just doing it or not doing
it and you know, that's that's the struggle for me is is just
doing it right. It's starting to do it building
a routine around it. And then yeah, to your point,
when I do it, I'm I'm much more calm I'm much I don't react to
(22:23):
situations I don't buy things onAmazon as much right.
Like I can kind of catch myself and have this self-awareness
when, for example, last night, these feelings are coming up of
and you know, we're, we're reminiscing about old times and
you start getting some people, as I'm sure you've had, where
you see old friends and they're,they're telling you how good
you're doing and this stuff. And I don't know about you, but
(22:44):
I, I really hate compliments. Like I really struggle.
And, and I know that that's something to work on where it's
like, you know, this person is, they mean it.
And because that's my thing is like, Oh, you're lying, right?
Or because I don't believe in myself, right?
And so that it takes work and but I'm able to, to stop in
those moments and feel my body reacting to whatever the
(23:06):
situation is happening. And then, you know, just relate
it back to again. And I, I don't drink like that.
I don't, I don't use like that I'm going to be OK.
And just. And then, you know, you wake up
this morning and you're every time, every single time you wake
up and you're like, man, you almost can't believe that you
had those thoughts again, 'causewhat?
Like, what was I thinking, right?
And then, but you just laugh at it too.
You don't beat yourself up aboutit.
(23:27):
And you're like, I'm an addict. And that's, that's it.
You know, it's just more proof that I I don't need but I I get
anyways, right? And, you know, working at
Addiction Rehab Toronto, seeing people come in broken,
essentially, it reminds me of ofwhen I walked into treatment
multiple times and just, you know, in the big book where it
(23:49):
says incomprehensible demoralization.
Like that's how I felt every single time.
And you know, the snowball of lies when when I was relapsing
and, you know, lying to my boss and telling him I had laryngitis
when, when I was using and, and that kind of stuff that that
doesn't serve me today. I don't need to.
I don't need to live that life today.
(24:10):
What are you seeing on the intake side in terms of
substances coming out? Are you seeing a lot of gambling
yet? I, I keep thinking about this
because I'm getting, I'm gettingsome phone calls about gambling,
you know, now that it's legal inOntario and it's, it's a really
dangerous one, right? Because a lot of people it, it
doesn't, you know, I had a, a friend in last year, actually
(24:30):
right before my last relapse. I didn't realize how much of an
impact this had. He actually took his own life.
And you know, we don't, we don'tknow exactly why, but some
people believe that there was a little bit of that going on.
And, you know, if you read aboutthe stats, I think one of the
number one reasons, and I'm gonna mess this up, but one of
the number one reasons young males are committing suicide or
(24:51):
taking their own lives is because of gambling debt.
And it's it's a serious problem that's, that's gonna come,
right. It's like an epidemic that's on
the rise definitely in the States as well.
So what are you seeing in terms of substances?
Is it a lot of opiates? Is it like what's, what's the
majority of people coming in with?
I would say primarily it's a lotof Alcoholics, a lot of crack
(25:11):
cocaine and opiates, but there are some gambling, gambling
addicts. And yeah, it's, I, I have
personal experience with, I was married to somebody that was a
gambling addict and he, you know, it's, it's, it's really
bad. It, it creates, you know, the
depression, the anxiety. And it, it is, if you look at
(25:33):
stats, it's, it's a high suiciderate just because it's, it's
pretty much the same as substances except for gambling.
You can't stop. And it's, it's really sad.
It's really sad. And it's hard to detect because,
you know, it's not necessarily something that's visual when,
when you're using, you can kind of tell when somebody's on
(25:55):
drugs, but not so with the gambling addict.
So it's, it's, it's pretty sad. It's and when we've seen it,
we've seen it at at art people coming in with gambling
addictions. And is it the same kind of
treatment approach that we take to that?
Like I'm I'm not really up to date on how how do.
You yeah, yeah. So there, there are 12 step
(26:15):
meetings that you can go to GA and yeah, they, they, they work
the 12 steps, maybe not in treatment, but yeah, they've,
they've worked the 12 step stepsin, in different fellowships.
And it's the same sort of idea, except for, you know, when we
have the the mental obsession with drugs and alcohol, they
(26:36):
have the mental obsession to to place a bet.
And it's very similar to in, because I have some personal
experience with gambling in my addiction as well, where it's
like you're chasing that first win, right?
And it's the same as, you know, I'm chasing that first high,
that first line that, that the, the dopamine brought me.
And it's never the same, right? And then you're constantly
chasing it and you get in a bigger hole and then you need to
(26:58):
use more and gamble more or whatever.
So it's, there's a lot of similarities.
I think what what is the best piece of advice or some of the
best advice you got when you were coming into recovery or
this time around from people? So I, it was, it was interesting
when I went back to treatment, some people, cause a lot of the
(27:22):
counsellors knew me because I was there three years prior and,
and some of the clients were asking me, you know, about
having three years and that kindof stuff.
And I, and I just told him I don't, I, I'm just starting
fresh, just like you, because obviously I got something wrong
along the way. I don't lose the, the experience
(27:43):
of having those three years and the people that I met.
But but I, I wanted to remain humble and, and teachable in, in
that moment, you know, just justbeing back in recovery.
I think that the importance of really staying in the moment and
working on, you know, having, having that inventory at night
(28:06):
has been crucial for me. I think because if I don't, if I
just kind of leave things, resentments, resentments and
they build up and they build up,eventually, you know, I'm going
to end up picking up as a resultof it.
So I need to always stay currentwith with some things that have
been bothering me and, and just looking at, you know, how I
(28:29):
treat people and my behaviors and that kind of stuff.
Because if I start being short with people, start going back to
selfishness, resentments and that kind of stuff, I know that
that's a telltale sign that I'm going down the wrong path again.
Yeah, yeah. It's interesting you bring that
up 'cause that's, that's one of mine too, where I start getting
short with people. And it's this, it's kind of like
(28:50):
this grumpiness. You know, I actually woke up
this morning feeling that. And something that's been
helping me a lot. I started doing these free
writing journals every morning because I read about it
somewhere. So now, you know, no matter what
and I don't want to do it a lot of the time.
But first thing I do when I wakeup after I pray is I write 3
pages of just like whatever's onmy mind.
(29:11):
And that's been extremely helpful.
It, I actually got it from a woman who is sober.
She wrote a book about the creative process and like
writing and she's a writer and she uses her recovery tools to
like help artists that are, you know, have what writer's block
or whatever. And so I'm reading this book and
she talks about morning pages. It's called where every morning
you write out three pages no matter what.
(29:33):
And I'm finding that it really helps me.
Like I don't want to do it a lotof time, but it's, it's a form
of prayer. It's a form of meditation after
I've already said my my typical prayers and it's amazing.
Like it, it honestly went away like within probably half an
hour of when I woke up this morning, I was writing about it
out. And then, you know, my wife
actually, she woke before me this morning, which never
happens, but I, I told her and she, I was like, I, I feel
(29:58):
grumpy, I feel short, I feel angry.
And within half an hour, like, you know, we're having a
conversation again and it's kindof gone, right.
So I, I, I can't stress enough to people how important it is to
just get it out or whatever thatlooks like.
Even even I think what's beneficial too is having a
gratitude journal. I feel like if I'm looking at
(30:20):
what I'm grateful for today, then it's really hard for me to
be in a bad mood because there'sso many things in my life to to
be grateful for. I have my family back.
I have a beautiful relationship with my daughter.
I have AI have a beautiful relationship with my partner and
his daughter and my family, you know, they trust me again.
(30:45):
It's pretty sad, but you know, they stopped.
They stopped setting a place thetable for me because I just
never showed up. I miss so out on so many things
in active addiction. And now it's just like normal
for me to be sober. Like they, they don't remember,
like I'm sure they remember, but, but it's been a while since
they've seen me that way that it's just kind of second nature
(31:06):
for, for me to show up and, you know, take care of their kids
and, and that kind of stuff, right.
It's amazing. You replace, sort of, you start
to replace all the bad memories with with better ones, right?
And it takes time and I've, I'vecome to realize too, luckily
I've had everyone in my life come back as well.
It does take time and some people don't, they're not coming
(31:27):
back, right? Some people you've, you've,
we've really done some damage and need to accept that everyone
has their own healing journey and maybe their life is better
without me, right? That's like another way to look
at it too. Well, it's something that you
you're currently working on right now personally.
Personally, that's, that's a good question.
So I've, I've been, you know, trying to focus more on, you
(31:53):
know, spending more time with mydaughter.
I think that it's, it's very important.
She's, she's 16 and I, and she really needs me.
And also I'm, I'm quite busy at work too, right?
So it's like I'm, I'm a bit of ahomebody.
So I, you know, during the week I just, I go to meetings, I go
home, I just hang out of my house.
I do, I do some therapy sessionsat night time, spend time with
(32:16):
her and, and just try and keep it simple.
I also love to travel and some people ask me, you know, how do
you travel and how do you go to these all inclusive resorts and
not drink or, or do anything else?
But my memories are pretty much all attached to recovery.
(32:37):
I, I only travelled since I've been in recovery.
I think I've gone on 2 trips where I was in active use, one
when I was 1918 or 19 and once with a family trip and I was
drinking. Other than that, I've, I've
travelled to so many different places, but I've been in
recovery doing that. So I just absolutely love it.
(32:58):
I, I just, I just got back from a Mediterranean cruise that was
absolutely beautiful. I just, I don't know, it's just
kind of my happy place to be around like an ocean and seeing
the world and, and different things because, you know, being
confined to, to a room and beingin paranoia is, is not fun.
(33:21):
So yeah. It gets old pretty quick.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just reminded me of, I
remember because there's a lot of firsts in recovery, right?
And when people ask me that too,or, or they ask you, I don't
think they really understand that.
It's like you've done it a lot where it's like it, it at one
point it wasn't easy, right? Like it's, it's gotten easier
because you do it a lot more. And so first wedding, first all
(33:44):
inclusive. That was a big one for me.
And you reminded me of a time when I went to Jamaica for two
weeks, which was way too much time on a resort, to be honest,
'cause we were like stuck in thefirst world problems.
Anyways, So we were there and I remember being on the beach and
there was like 4 or five people that were younger than me and
they were like funneling on the beach.
(34:05):
And they, I'll never forget this.
They brought it right up to my face.
And we're like, you know, you got to do 1, you got to do 1.
And that was one of the hardest moments I've I've ever been
through in recovery, right whereit's like you're in a place no
one would know, right? You, you can, all these thoughts
are going through your mind. You can get back to recovery
when you get home or but and so I remember vividly calling my
(34:28):
sponsor while I was on that vacation after and telling him
about it. And you know, I think that saved
my life because in the moment you kind of forget, right?
You forget that you have to go and pick up the pieces after and
you have to live with your addict self again, right?
No one else is coming to save you after.
(34:48):
Yeah, I was just, I was thinkingwhen you were talking that I
remember I got out of treatment.I was about four months sober.
I went to Bahamas with my familyand my daughter and then the
fall that year, I was about 8 months sober and my, my sponsor,
the time to fish, we went to Mexico together.
And, and, and so I, I just kind of got used to being in recovery
(35:13):
and going on these trips and then, you know, traveling with
my sister, traveling with my daughter, traveling with
friends. And then last year we went on a
recovery trip to Mexico. So, and we're going again, yeah,
we're going again in March. So I, I feel like, you know,
it's, it's a good mixture of family and then also recovery
(35:34):
trips as well. Yeah, it's beautiful.
How so when life happens and youknow things happen in recovery
to you, and how would you say that you navigate through those
tough times when you know everything seems to be going
wrong or or not in your favor? How do you navigate through
that? So, so I think that having
(35:57):
people, the supportive people and, and really talking about it
is, is so important. I have some really fantastic
friends in, in recovery, rangingfrom, you know, 2526 years to,
you know, a couple years and, and they, they know me well.
I have some friends that I've known that I lived with.
(36:20):
And so we're living that are still sober and, and we're on
this journey together. So they know me the best.
And I also have a couple of normie friends that I can talk
to about things, but I find thatreaching out and just just
telling them how I'm feeling. Also staying connected to my
sponsor and, and my spirituality.
(36:41):
I think that that's kind of whathelps me when I'm when I'm
feeling those those certain low tides.
Yeah, I mean for me right now, you know, things are good.
It's everything is, is working out as it should.
I I have a problem with expectations.
That's that's my thing right nowwhere it's like, you know, this
(37:01):
this podcast used to be a lot more, I don't know, I would say
easy to get my head around doingright, all the work around it.
And lately I've been kind of just thinking like it's starting
to feel more like a job, right? And I've come to the realization
that it's solely because, and this is like a lot of things in
my life, I have an expectation attached to it.
(37:22):
It's like I'm at a point now where I'm not the the
expectation. I'm not getting what I thought I
wanted to get out of it, right? Whether it's the amount of
listeners or, you know, money from it or whatever.
And it all comes back to like, yeah, I have this expectation,
which is directly proportionate to my level of acceptance.
(37:45):
So my, what is it saying? My serenity is directly
proportional, inversely proportional to my level of
expectations, right? So the higher my expectations
are, the lower my serenity is in, in all scenarios.
And I have to remind myself, I was like, dude, you did this to
just stay sober and hopefully help one other person.
And you're achieving that, right?
So shut up. Yeah, it's, it's, it's a
(38:10):
beautiful thing that you're doing.
I think that it, it, it can helpsomebody that's that's watching
it and and maybe they can relateto to somebody that's on here.
And we can't do this alone. That's the main thing.
And I remember after I had my relapse, so many people reached
out to me, so many people showedup at my, at my door, friends in
(38:34):
recovery that that didn't give up on me, didn't turn their back
on me. You know, when I was using they,
they wouldn't necessarily give me money, but they would buy
food for me and stuff like that.And, and I don't forget that.
And you know, that's very important because we can't, we
can't do this alone. Yeah, yeah, The asking for money
(38:54):
is. That's a good one.
You know, enabling, right? Yeah.
If you could go back. I like asking this.
Somebody asked me this question once, and I hated it at first,
but now I really like it. It's if you could go back and
change your life to take like a life of a normal drinker instead
of an addict or a normal user instead of an addict, would you
(39:14):
take it? So that that's, you know, I used
to think that I would, I used tothink that if there was no
consequences, would I still continue that lifestyle?
And today I would say no, I would, I would rather be, you
know, have the lived experience.I wouldn't have the career I
have. I wouldn't have the people in my
(39:35):
life. I don't think that I would have
the partner that I have in my life.
I don't think I would have any of these things because, you
know, I've met so many incredible people in recovery
that we wouldn't have crossed their paths with each other,
right? So I, I love my life today and
I, and I'm grateful for, for what I've been through because,
(39:56):
you know, when I'm, even when I'm doing intakes and somebody
asks me like, do you understand addiction?
And, and I tell them a little bit, right?
So, so it makes them feel more comfortable and, and they're
like, oh, wow. And I, and I tell them like a
lot of our counselors have livedexperience.
They they can understand what you what you've gone through,
and they can empathize with you.And I've also, I'm also a a
(40:19):
mother, so I can understand the parents side of things where you
know, what I put my family through and I see that the
parents faces and just, you know, they just feel they, they
look lost and and broken becauseof what we put them through,
right. Yeah, I know.
It's, it's like I, I don't thinkI would have had the reason.
(40:43):
I don't want to say access to the toolkit that I have today
because it's available to anybody, but I wouldn't have had
the reason to get the toolkit that I have.
And yeah, things have happened in my life where I don't know if
they would have happened if I hadn't hit some sort of rock
bottom right. And there's a lot of growth that
comes after destruction, right? It breeds a lot of creation.
(41:06):
I'm stealing that from a Red HotChili's pepper song.
I think, you know, destruction leads to a very rough Rd. but it
also breeds creation, right? And I love that quote.
And it's the lead singer is alsoin recovery as well.
So it's a beautiful thing. You have to be able to learn
from from the experiences as well.
(41:27):
I think in the big book it says it might be worth a bad case of
jitters if you get a full knowledge of your condition.
So as long as you can learn fromfrom the experiences and you can
grow from them. I feel like anything that I've
been through, if it's, it's beenreally challenging, that's where
I've grown the most in recovery.You know, I, I got married in
(41:48):
recovery, I got divorced in recovery.
I went through a pretty dark time through that relationship
and, and I came out of it a stronger person as a result of
it. And, you know, you know, looking
back at my, at my life in activeuse, there's some, there's some
things that, that I went throughand I feel like I, I kind of put
(42:09):
myself in those dangerous situations, right?
So I think that I can I can better be prepared to help.
Someone it's like the sort of unique gift, right, that we can
offer to others. And as I'm sure you can attest,
addiction is not going anywhere,right?
It's getting worse. And yeah, I, I found it.
I find it interesting too, that there's with all the drugs that
(42:32):
are out now and you know, a lot of a lot of you see that the
data that a lot less people are drinking now, right?
That is, I, I still talk to a lot of Alcoholics too, where
it's like the drugs are not their problem at all.
And I find that really interesting, right, that it's
like, let me ask you this and maybe I don't know if there's
any science behind this or anything.
(42:52):
And maybe you your opinion on what do you think makes somebody
a stimulant user versus an alcohol or depressant user?
Like what do you think the difference is?
I've always been a stimulant guy.
I never liked being depressed. What do you think the difference
is between the two? That's, that's a, that's a good
question for me. I was, I was both, right?
I, I, I use stimulants and then I use Downers as well, right.
(43:16):
So, but I think that once you get comfortable with, with a
certain substance and you like the effect produced by it, then
it just becomes your, your failed solution, but you think
it's your solution at the time. So a lot of drinkers I talked
to, to a lot of Alcoholics and they, they are under the
impression that because it's legal, it's more acceptable and
(43:39):
it's not so bad. Sometimes I'll even say, is
there any other substances when I'm doing an intake or, or if I
say drugs and they're like, oh, no, no, I don't do drugs, but
alcohol is a drug. So, so it's, it's interesting to
see that they they kind of separate the two and I think
that it just becomes preference and, and what you're used to
(44:01):
and. And that's, I would assume that
that's the same with weed now too, right?
Where it's like, that's interesting.
Yeah. It's like this sort of
justification that you're not, you're OK, right.
You're, you know, everyone else is doing it.
I I don't think I was ever to make that justification because
people are not socially using cocaine.
Actually, maybe they are. But if you.
(44:22):
Yeah. If you, if you walk around and
you know, I, I would say most people aren't using socially
accepted use of cocaine or any drugs like that.
But yeah, that's an interesting distinction.
I never thought about that. OK, let's let's wrap it up with
this. If you could say something to
your younger, addicted self today, what would you say?
(44:46):
Very good question. I think that I would, I would
ask my younger self to listen and try and follow a little more
direction in life. And, you know, sometimes I look
back, I try not to have regrets,but I, I look back and I say,
you know, I wish maybe I was a little bit younger getting into
(45:08):
recovery. There's some things that, you
know, maybe because I'm a littlebit older, I, I can't
necessarily have or accomplish. Maybe I would have had more kids
or, and stuff like that, right. So I think that, you know, maybe
maybe, you know, I would, I would say to my younger self,
you know, try and try and get get your stuff together at a
(45:29):
little bit of a younger age. That going against that
defiance, right? That's I, I think that's the
crux of it all, really. For and, and like even today,
it's just to stay sober. It's going against that, you
know, better judgement in quotations that I, I think I
know what's best for me. And you said it perfectly.
(45:49):
The the best answer, like my worst, my biggest problem today
is I'm right, right. But it, it looks, it comes out
in the form of yeah, I know. And that's such a good way to
put it. It's like anytime I'm saying,
yeah, I know that's the red flag, huge red flag.
Thanks so much for coming down, Allison.
I appreciate it. Thank you for having me.
(46:10):
Thanks for listening. Please help us grow the channel
and like, share and subscribe for more content.
The discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for
informational and motivational purposes only.
This content is not a substitutefor professional medical advice,
addiction treatment, or therapy.If you or someone you know is
struggling with addiction, please consult the licensed
(46:31):
physician, addiction specialist,or mental health professional.
You are no longer alone.
I found myself driving in the area that I used to use and just
driving around and there was no reason for me to be in that
area. So looking back, it was like,
did I want to see somebody that was using and then maybe join
them? Or in my mind I was like, Oh no,
I want people to see that I'm doing really well, but I really
wasn't doing well. Maybe on the outside, right
(00:21):
manager to sober house, you know, sponsoring all these women
doing the 12 steps, going to meetings.
But I really wasn't doing the work internally and I wasn't
telling on myself. And I remember we had a
gratitude meeting at my at my group.
It was just after Christmas and I went to the meeting and then
(00:42):
the person that I was dating at the time called me and told me
he had relapsed. And my best thinking said I'm
going to go and save him. And I was in no place to do
that. I should have asked maybe some
of my guy friends to to go and help him.
And I started driving. And you know, it talks about
like the mental obsession, but there's also like a mental blank
(01:02):
spot. I knew in that moment that I was
going to, I was going to pick upthat night and I thought I was
just going to do 1, which is funny when you say it out loud,
but I really did think that. And and then I was off to the
races from from that moment on. Hi there, welcome back or
welcome to Recovering Out Loud Podcast, the show where we get
real about mental health and addiction.
(01:25):
I'm so glad you're here. If you or someone you love is
struggling with drugs or alcohol, please reach out for
help. Send me a message on all social
media platforms at Recovering Out Loud Pod or by e-mail at
recoveringoutloudpod@gmail.com. You are no longer alone.
(02:00):
I went to a wedding last night and I'm just like, really tired.
I didn't. Yeah, it was good.
It was. It was more, it was a high
school reunion almost, because it was like all these people I
went to high school with. Oh, wow.
And so that can be kind of overwhelming sometimes.
Yeah. But like, it was most of most of
my friends, which was nice. It's interesting to see.
(02:23):
So I'm in my 30s and most of thepeople that were in their mid
mid 30s, I would say the amount of people that are still going
like hard. And that's not to say that see
my, my assumption is when I see people like that, I'm like, oh,
they must be doing it all the time, right?
Because like, that's how you know, I do it.
I'm assuming that's how you. Did it too.
And that's not the case, right? Like those people are probably
(02:46):
not going to go for another month and they're going to be
fine. And so I made a video about this
this morning. But one thing that really helps
me 'cause I still get, and again, I'm early on, again in
recovery, but I still get those,those triggers, those thoughts
of what is it for me, it's like,oh, that looks fun, right?
That that looks fun. Like fear of missing.
(03:07):
Out. Yeah, that would be nice.
I remember when and then like insert fun memory right of of
doing like coke, you know, I don't know there's probably like
AI probably have like a 4 minute, you know, memories of
when it was fun right those like4 minute intervals and then
after that it was just absolute hell.
(03:29):
But one thing that really helps me is excuse me, I just I just
don't use like that, right? I don't drink like that.
I'm still going today. If I if I picked up of.
Course, of course. And then Sunday morning I'm
still going and Monday morning I'm still going.
So that, that, that gives me comfort, right?
But a lot of time. And that's why I was looking
forward to this today too, because like I have to talk
(03:50):
about it, right? Like I can do all these things.
I can pray, I can all these tools that I was taught in
recovery. But like, if I keep it in here,
that's how I go back every single time, right?
Absolutely. So thanks for coming down,
Allison. I appreciate it.
Why don't you start with tell usa little bit about yourself and
what you do for work. OK, so I'm Allison.
(04:14):
I've been in recovery for going on 7 years.
I've worked at Addiction Rehab Toronto going on five years
before that. I, my life looks a lot
different. Active use was a really long
time. I'd say about 16 or 17 years.
(04:35):
I was using hard drugs at the beginning.
I mean, when I was 1617, it was fun.
I can honestly say that. And then, you know, at about
1819 years old, it started to become problematic and, and my
life just went downhill. I wasn't employable.
I, I couldn't keep a job. I would, I would go to multiple
(04:57):
different schools and, and get different, different degrees for
things and, and never be able tostick to anything.
And then in 2016, I went to my fifth treatment center by that
time, and I was 34 years old. And from there I stayed there 75
(05:17):
days. And then from there I went to a
sober living. And that's, that's kind of where
my recovery kind of took off. I actually started to have hope
and, and, and know that maybe I could do this.
You know, before that, I was always the type of person that
would go to a treatment center. I would, I would get into
(05:39):
trouble, my family would either give me a choice.
It was like court ordered treatment centers or, or go to
jail essentially. And so I obviously I picked the
nice treatment centers and but after I would leave the
treatment center, I would just, I wouldn't have a solution.
And I, and I just, I didn't hearabout the 12 steps too much and
(06:01):
meetings and that kind of stuff.So, so I just would go back to,
to my old life, what I knew best, I, I hung around some
pretty dangerous people. I got myself into some pretty
dangerous situations at in a young age, throughout my 20s.
It was, you know, really hard drugs and it was terrible. 28 I
(06:25):
got pregnant and I had my daughter and I mean, I was
sober, but it wasn't recovery. It was more dry.
And, and then when she was about3, I went back to, to that life
and, and you know, it was a longroad to get here.
And so when I went to that treatment center and then I went
to a sober living, it was a private sober living and I
(06:49):
stayed there for almost a year, a little bit over a year, I
think. And in that time I really
learned what recovery was. I, I got a sponsor, I worked 12
steps. I went to lots of meetings,
start sponsoring women. And when it was time for me to
move out on my own, I started towork at the, at the sober house.
(07:10):
I, it just started off on the weekends and then I moved to, to
doing throughout the week. And then I started to manage the
house. So at about 2 1/2 years, I, I,
I, you know, they, they talk about unmanageability, right
when, when you're not, when you're not using and you know,
(07:31):
it comes back into your life if you're, if you're not working a
solid program. And, and that's kind of what
happened to me. So I stopped going to meetings.
I stopped working with women. I was working way too many
hours. I was helping my mother because
she, she fell and she fractured her leg.
And like, these are all excuses really.
(07:53):
And eventually I, I ended up picking up again at about just
shy of three years and it was really bad.
It was about 2 1/2 three months,but it was, it was terrible.
I almost died a couple of times.Somebody saved my life.
I was, I was passed out in a bathtub and, and somebody saved
my life. And so I went to a back to a
(08:15):
treatment, the same treatment center.
My sister picked me up from a pretty dangerous area with a
friend of mine that's in in the program and I went back to
treatment and I stayed there for45 days.
And I don't know, something shifted and I, I knew the things
that I needed to do and I knew the things that I needed to not
(08:37):
do. And so, you know, the, the last
6 1/2, pretty much 6 1/2 years, I've just been, you know, really
focusing on my career, my recovery, my daughter, my
relationships, my family. I have a really big family.
I have three sisters. I have 7 nieces and nephews.
(09:00):
You know, Sunday lunches at my at my family's house is, is loud
and lots of kids running around And sometimes I have to pinch
myself because the life that I was living on the streets like I
was, I was actually driving on the way down here and it was
like by all the different areas that I used to like you could
(09:21):
say I lived, but really it was just, you know, kind of using
and being on the streets. And so, you know, then I, I went
from, from the sober living working there and then he called
me back after I got sober again and he asked me if I wanted my
job back. And so I started working there
(09:41):
for about 6 months and I just wanted to something a little bit
more. So during COVID, I went back to
school and I graduated with honors, which was pretty
incredible for a person like me.And, and I started doing my
placement at Addiction Rehab Toronto.
And I would say that that's justkind of where I, I kind of fell
(10:03):
into the field because of my, mylived experience.
I think that it's, it's such a special place to work.
I absolutely love everybody thatI work with.
My bosses are, are very supportive.
You know, I've met you through through art and you know, I get
(10:24):
to wake up every day and I get to go to a job that I absolutely
love. Sometimes it's a it can be a
little bit overwhelming, a little bit stressful, but I
think that today I'm able to, tohandle that stress much better
because of my recovery. So now I do intake.
So I went from, from working as a counsellor, I, I also do
(10:46):
counselling as well. But my primary role is intake
counselor. And I absolutely love that role
because I get to see them come into the doors and then I get to
see them when they're leaving. Yeah.
That's what I was going to ask you is like, you get to see
this, you know, these shells of human beings come in and I
remember every time I've I still, I have a picture from one
of my intakes that I, I will never delete because it just, I
(11:10):
just, it brings me back to that feeling of like utter defeat.
And you know, my hair is all over the place and it looked
like I hadn't showered in a longtime, but I'll, I'll never
forget that, that walking back like I've been to three and
walking into every all three treatment centers, like that's
a, a memory burned into my brain.
And, and you know, for like whenI'm at a wedding last night, I,
(11:30):
I really pull up those memories right?
Of like, where does it lead me? Right back into that door where
I can't even speak. I don't even know who I am
anymore. I'm just not myself, right?
Completely. Yeah.
So that's an interesting perspective that you have there.
I wanna go back to the so at 2 1/2 years when you went back out
because I can relate to that. I went back out after having
(11:51):
years as well. Do you remember what sort of was
going through your mind when that?
Because in my experience, relapse doesn't, it doesn't just
happen overnight, right? There's like a lot of planning,
a lot of thoughts, a lot of guilt and shame about the
thoughts. Do you remember like what?
What that what that thought process was like before you
picked up? You know, I, I don't have the
greatest memory and, but I do remember the, the moments
(12:13):
leading up to it. So I had a sponsor and she would
tell me, you know, you're not, you're not doing the
inventories. It's like, you know, like
checking in at the end of the night.
You're not coming to meetings. I started, I started a meeting
in my area. I wasn't going to the meetings.
I started to concentrate on my relationship at the time and,
(12:36):
and all these things. And I was really drained and I
was working too much and all this unmanageability without
drugs and alcohol. And I remember, you know, I had
a prayer meditation room in my condo.
I stopped praying, stopped meditating, I stopped talking
about it. And what's interesting is I'm
(12:57):
not much of a drink. Like I, I drink alcoholically,
but drinking is not really my thing.
But I had a reservation about drinking and I didn't tell
anybody about it. I found myself, I was telling my
friend this story the other day.I found myself driving in the
area that I used to use and justdriving around and there was no
(13:20):
reason for me to be in that area.
So looking back, it was like, did I want to see somebody that
was using and then maybe join them or in my mind I was like,
Oh no, I want people to see thatI'm doing really well, but I
really wasn't doing well. Maybe on the outside right
manager to sober house, you know, sponsoring all these women
(13:41):
doing the 12 steps, going to meetings.
But I really wasn't doing the work internally and I wasn't
telling on myself. And I remember the, the we had
a, a gratitude meeting at my, atmy group.
It was just after Christmas and I went to the meeting and then
the person that I was dating at the time called me and told me
(14:03):
he had relapsed. And my best thinking said I'm
going to go and save him. And I was in no place to do
that. I should have asked maybe some
of my guy friends to to go and help him.
But and I started driving and you know, it talks about like
the mental obsession, but there's also like a mental blank
spot. I knew in that moment that I was
(14:25):
going to, I was going to pick upthat night and I thought I was
just going to do 1, which is funny when you say it out loud,
but I really did think that and and then I was off to the races
from from that moment on. Yeah, that's interesting.
It's it's almost like your brainstarts to look for excuses to to
jump back into that life. And yeah, you're, you're like
(14:49):
constantly scanning the area. And that's interesting that you
drove around and then, yeah, I can relate to like the, for me,
it was the ADHD medication. It was like I, I had the the
right thought in my in my mind. And you mentioned telling on
yourself that is like, I try to preach that so often with guys
that I work with and on this podcast as well, every time I
(15:10):
relapse, it was that, yeah, it was that it was like, I have
this idea I'm gonna hold it backhere and it's just gonna keep
getting bigger and bigger until eventually it leads to, to
action, right. So being an intake counsellor at
at Addiction Rehab Toronto, you see a lot of people come in.
What, what would you say is likethe number one people in your
(15:32):
opinion that like don't I don't,I, I never like saying fail
because it's not a failure at all, but that don't kind of get
the recovery thing. Like what?
What do you think the biggest reason is when they leave
treatment? A, a lot of the time it's the
continuum of care. You can come into treatment and
you can be there 306090 days, which is great and it's a
(15:53):
beginning. But if you leave treatment and
you just go back to exactly whatyou were doing before, you're
not going to be able to sustain recovery.
And so I often say, you know, if, if it's, if it's not 12
steps, then maybe look into SMART Recovery or something.
Something needs to change, you know, some people need need a
(16:14):
little bit of extra support and then sober living is is the next
option. I didn't go back to sober living
and on my after my relapse, but I do truly believe that if I
didn't go to that sober living initially in 2016, I don't think
that I would be sober today. I really needed to learn how to
live outside of treatment, and having that extra support was
(16:37):
was crucial. Yeah, was absolutely crucial.
Yeah, and, and it's a good pointtoo, because, you know, for a
long time when I, when I came back from my relapse, there was
these thoughts of like, oh, I, Ilost it all right.
But that, that's a prime exampleof tools that were built into
your brain that you were able tolater go back, pick up on right,
and and bring back out and use again.
(17:00):
So you, you don't, you don't lose any of that time.
You don't lose those tools that you're taught in recovery.
And so, yeah, I did the sober living thing too.
I found that for me, the biggesthelp at any treatment center
I've ever been to was like, justjust listening to what they told
me to do, right. And when I work with people now
that are getting into, into treatment, I always, you know,
(17:22):
it's the mom's calling and it's the fifth again, same thing,
fifth treatment center, right? What's going to be different
this time? And I ask them sometimes I'm
like, what do you think the missing piece is, right?
Like, did you listen to every single thing the counselor said
to do? Right.
And it's funny that I'm saying this out loud because what, in
my last treatment center, they recommended that I extend to 60
(17:43):
days. And, you know, I had eight years
of recovery and I was, I was like, I know what I'm doing, you
know what I mean? And it's like that utter
deflation of ego had to take place again.
And it wasn't until I said it out loud that I'm a defiant
alcoholic, an addict, that something clicked for me where I
was like, I was able to accept the fact, even though even
still, looking back, my brain will go, yeah, you know, you
(18:05):
probably could have got away with 30, right?
And it's like, no, dude, like you needed to listen and it
doesn't matter what it looked like it you needed to listen to
what other people were saying, right?
And then just apply it in your life.
Yeah, like taking direction and remaining teachable and being
humble. I've worked with clients before
where they're like, I know, I know, I know.
I'm like, no you don't. That's a dangerous word.
(18:28):
Because I used to say it myself and I know, I know that I, I
need to be able to, to listen tosomebody that came before me
that knows what they're doing and I need to follow direction
because my, my thinking and my way of life was not working.
Yeah, it's so true. You're, you're a spiritual
person, right? I I know that from you.
(18:49):
What does faith spirituality mean to you and why do you think
it's important in recovery? So you know in the big book it
says self will run riot. So if I'm living on myself, will
I'll get myself into trouble every time.
And so when I started the program, I was a bit skeptical
(19:11):
with, with spirituality, with the word God and, and those kind
of things. And, you know, throughout the
years of recovery, sometimes I'm, I'm very spiritual and then
sometimes I, I, I fall off the beam a little bit and I have to
get myself back to it. I think that, you know, me
driving the bus is not a good idea.
I'm not a good driver in a sense.
(19:32):
And so spirituality looks like, you know, turning my thoughts
and my actions over to the care of God or whatever I believe in
instead of my thoughts and actions.
So it's not always just to do with drugs and alcohol.
It's to do with should I go to this place or should I hang out
with these people? Or, you know, do I go to this
(19:54):
event? Like I, I kind of like have
something to talk to and and be directed by because, you know,
for such a long time, my plans and ideas, they get me into
trouble and, and get me into places where where I don't want
to be. And you know, my life today is,
(20:16):
is so beautiful. It's, it's a miracle because I
couldn't go, I couldn't go like,you know, 20 minutes without
picking up. It was really bad.
I, when I went into treatment in2016, I was, I was a little over
£100 and I was, I was dying, youknow, from the inside and out.
(20:38):
I needed spirituality. I needed something to help guide
me. And you know, even just doing
prayer meditation, I feel like when, when I pray, I'm I'm
asking for direction and when I meditate, I'm listening for the
answers. What does meditation look like
to you? How do you, how do you tell
(20:58):
someone to meditate? I always struggled with with
that one, Yeah. So my mind sometimes goes like
1,000,000 miles a minute. So I like guided meditations.
Personally, I'm not very, very good with sitting still with,
with just quiet or maybe even a little bit of music in the
(21:20):
background. I like something that's guiding
me. Sometimes I'll just do use the
calm app and, and just ask for guided meditation on stress or
guided meditation on faith or guided meditation on anxiety,
whatever they, whatever I'm feeling in that moment.
And I just try and sit still in the morning before I get to work
(21:41):
because I, I like to be groundedand, and kind of just feeling
calm when I get to work. And then also at night time
after I do, I write out my inventory.
I send it to my, my sponsor. She's fantastic.
I really love working with her. And and then I just finished it
off with the meditation and I usually fall asleep.
So you do that night then. Interesting.
(22:03):
Yeah, yeah, I find that meditation is one of those
things where it's like you can'tthere's no doing it right,
right. It's just doing it or not doing
it and you know, that's that's the struggle for me is is just
doing it right. It's starting to do it building
a routine around it. And then yeah, to your point,
when I do it, I'm I'm much more calm I'm much I don't react to
(22:23):
situations I don't buy things onAmazon as much right.
Like I can kind of catch myself and have this self-awareness
when, for example, last night, these feelings are coming up of
and you know, we're, we're reminiscing about old times and
you start getting some people, as I'm sure you've had, where
you see old friends and they're,they're telling you how good
you're doing and this stuff. And I don't know about you, but
(22:44):
I, I really hate compliments. Like I really struggle.
And, and I know that that's something to work on where it's
like, you know, this person is, they mean it.
And because that's my thing is like, Oh, you're lying, right?
Or because I don't believe in myself, right?
And so that it takes work and but I'm able to, to stop in
those moments and feel my body reacting to whatever the
(23:06):
situation is happening. And then, you know, just relate
it back to again. And I, I don't drink like that.
I don't, I don't use like that I'm going to be OK.
And just. And then, you know, you wake up
this morning and you're every time, every single time you wake
up and you're like, man, you almost can't believe that you
had those thoughts again, 'causewhat?
Like, what was I thinking, right?
And then, but you just laugh at it too.
You don't beat yourself up aboutit.
(23:27):
And you're like, I'm an addict. And that's, that's it.
You know, it's just more proof that I I don't need but I I get
anyways, right? And, you know, working at
Addiction Rehab Toronto, seeing people come in broken,
essentially, it reminds me of ofwhen I walked into treatment
multiple times and just, you know, in the big book where it
(23:49):
says incomprehensible demoralization.
Like that's how I felt every single time.
And you know, the snowball of lies when when I was relapsing
and, you know, lying to my boss and telling him I had laryngitis
when, when I was using and, and that kind of stuff that that
doesn't serve me today. I don't need to.
I don't need to live that life today.
(24:10):
What are you seeing on the intake side in terms of
substances coming out? Are you seeing a lot of gambling
yet? I, I keep thinking about this
because I'm getting, I'm gettingsome phone calls about gambling,
you know, now that it's legal inOntario and it's, it's a really
dangerous one, right? Because a lot of people it, it
doesn't, you know, I had a, a friend in last year, actually
(24:30):
right before my last relapse. I didn't realize how much of an
impact this had. He actually took his own life.
And you know, we don't, we don'tknow exactly why, but some
people believe that there was a little bit of that going on.
And, you know, if you read aboutthe stats, I think one of the
number one reasons, and I'm gonna mess this up, but one of
the number one reasons young males are committing suicide or
(24:51):
taking their own lives is because of gambling debt.
And it's it's a serious problem that's, that's gonna come,
right. It's like an epidemic that's on
the rise definitely in the States as well.
So what are you seeing in terms of substances?
Is it a lot of opiates? Is it like what's, what's the
majority of people coming in with?
I would say primarily it's a lotof Alcoholics, a lot of crack
(25:11):
cocaine and opiates, but there are some gambling, gambling
addicts. And yeah, it's, I, I have
personal experience with, I was married to somebody that was a
gambling addict and he, you know, it's, it's, it's really
bad. It, it creates, you know, the
depression, the anxiety. And it, it is, if you look at
(25:33):
stats, it's, it's a high suiciderate just because it's, it's
pretty much the same as substances except for gambling.
You can't stop. And it's, it's really sad.
It's really sad. And it's hard to detect because,
you know, it's not necessarily something that's visual when,
when you're using, you can kind of tell when somebody's on
(25:55):
drugs, but not so with the gambling addict.
So it's, it's, it's pretty sad. It's and when we've seen it,
we've seen it at at art people coming in with gambling
addictions. And is it the same kind of
treatment approach that we take to that?
Like I'm I'm not really up to date on how how do.
You yeah, yeah. So there, there are 12 step
(26:15):
meetings that you can go to GA and yeah, they, they, they work
the 12 steps, maybe not in treatment, but yeah, they've,
they've worked the 12 step stepsin, in different fellowships.
And it's the same sort of idea, except for, you know, when we
have the the mental obsession with drugs and alcohol, they
(26:36):
have the mental obsession to to place a bet.
And it's very similar to in, because I have some personal
experience with gambling in my addiction as well, where it's
like you're chasing that first win, right?
And it's the same as, you know, I'm chasing that first high,
that first line that, that the, the dopamine brought me.
And it's never the same, right? And then you're constantly
chasing it and you get in a bigger hole and then you need to
(26:58):
use more and gamble more or whatever.
So it's, there's a lot of similarities.
I think what what is the best piece of advice or some of the
best advice you got when you were coming into recovery or
this time around from people? So I, it was, it was interesting
when I went back to treatment, some people, cause a lot of the
(27:22):
counsellors knew me because I was there three years prior and,
and some of the clients were asking me, you know, about
having three years and that kindof stuff.
And I, and I just told him I don't, I, I'm just starting
fresh, just like you, because obviously I got something wrong
along the way. I don't lose the, the experience
(27:43):
of having those three years and the people that I met.
But but I, I wanted to remain humble and, and teachable in, in
that moment, you know, just justbeing back in recovery.
I think that the importance of really staying in the moment and
working on, you know, having, having that inventory at night
(28:06):
has been crucial for me. I think because if I don't, if I
just kind of leave things, resentments, resentments and
they build up and they build up,eventually, you know, I'm going
to end up picking up as a resultof it.
So I need to always stay currentwith with some things that have
been bothering me and, and just looking at, you know, how I
(28:29):
treat people and my behaviors and that kind of stuff.
Because if I start being short with people, start going back to
selfishness, resentments and that kind of stuff, I know that
that's a telltale sign that I'm going down the wrong path again.
Yeah, yeah. It's interesting you bring that
up 'cause that's, that's one of mine too, where I start getting
short with people. And it's this, it's kind of like
(28:50):
this grumpiness. You know, I actually woke up
this morning feeling that. And something that's been
helping me a lot. I started doing these free
writing journals every morning because I read about it
somewhere. So now, you know, no matter what
and I don't want to do it a lot of the time.
But first thing I do when I wakeup after I pray is I write 3
pages of just like whatever's onmy mind.
(29:11):
And that's been extremely helpful.
It, I actually got it from a woman who is sober.
She wrote a book about the creative process and like
writing and she's a writer and she uses her recovery tools to
like help artists that are, you know, have what writer's block
or whatever. And so I'm reading this book and
she talks about morning pages. It's called where every morning
you write out three pages no matter what.
(29:33):
And I'm finding that it really helps me.
Like I don't want to do it a lotof time, but it's, it's a form
of prayer. It's a form of meditation after
I've already said my my typical prayers and it's amazing.
Like it, it honestly went away like within probably half an
hour of when I woke up this morning, I was writing about it
out. And then, you know, my wife
actually, she woke before me this morning, which never
happens, but I, I told her and she, I was like, I, I feel
(29:58):
grumpy, I feel short, I feel angry.
And within half an hour, like, you know, we're having a
conversation again and it's kindof gone, right.
So I, I, I can't stress enough to people how important it is to
just get it out or whatever thatlooks like.
Even even I think what's beneficial too is having a
gratitude journal. I feel like if I'm looking at
(30:20):
what I'm grateful for today, then it's really hard for me to
be in a bad mood because there'sso many things in my life to to
be grateful for. I have my family back.
I have a beautiful relationship with my daughter.
I have AI have a beautiful relationship with my partner and
his daughter and my family, you know, they trust me again.
(30:45):
It's pretty sad, but you know, they stopped.
They stopped setting a place thetable for me because I just
never showed up. I miss so out on so many things
in active addiction. And now it's just like normal
for me to be sober. Like they, they don't remember,
like I'm sure they remember, but, but it's been a while since
they've seen me that way that it's just kind of second nature
(31:06):
for, for me to show up and, you know, take care of their kids
and, and that kind of stuff, right.
It's amazing. You replace, sort of, you start
to replace all the bad memories with with better ones, right?
And it takes time and I've, I'vecome to realize too, luckily
I've had everyone in my life come back as well.
It does take time and some people don't, they're not coming
(31:27):
back, right? Some people you've, you've,
we've really done some damage and need to accept that everyone
has their own healing journey and maybe their life is better
without me, right? That's like another way to look
at it too. Well, it's something that you
you're currently working on right now personally.
Personally, that's, that's a good question.
So I've, I've been, you know, trying to focus more on, you
(31:53):
know, spending more time with mydaughter.
I think that it's, it's very important.
She's, she's 16 and I, and she really needs me.
And also I'm, I'm quite busy at work too, right?
So it's like I'm, I'm a bit of ahomebody.
So I, you know, during the week I just, I go to meetings, I go
home, I just hang out of my house.
I do, I do some therapy sessionsat night time, spend time with
(32:16):
her and, and just try and keep it simple.
I also love to travel and some people ask me, you know, how do
you travel and how do you go to these all inclusive resorts and
not drink or, or do anything else?
But my memories are pretty much all attached to recovery.
(32:37):
I, I only travelled since I've been in recovery.
I think I've gone on 2 trips where I was in active use, one
when I was 1918 or 19 and once with a family trip and I was
drinking. Other than that, I've, I've
travelled to so many different places, but I've been in
recovery doing that. So I just absolutely love it.
(32:58):
I, I just, I just got back from a Mediterranean cruise that was
absolutely beautiful. I just, I don't know, it's just
kind of my happy place to be around like an ocean and seeing
the world and, and different things because, you know, being
confined to, to a room and beingin paranoia is, is not fun.
(33:21):
So yeah. It gets old pretty quick.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You just reminded me of, I
remember because there's a lot of firsts in recovery, right?
And when people ask me that too,or, or they ask you, I don't
think they really understand that.
It's like you've done it a lot where it's like it, it at one
point it wasn't easy, right? Like it's, it's gotten easier
because you do it a lot more. And so first wedding, first all
(33:44):
inclusive. That was a big one for me.
And you reminded me of a time when I went to Jamaica for two
weeks, which was way too much time on a resort, to be honest,
'cause we were like stuck in thefirst world problems.
Anyways, So we were there and I remember being on the beach and
there was like 4 or five people that were younger than me and
they were like funneling on the beach.
(34:05):
And they, I'll never forget this.
They brought it right up to my face.
And we're like, you know, you got to do 1, you got to do 1.
And that was one of the hardest moments I've I've ever been
through in recovery, right whereit's like you're in a place no
one would know, right? You, you can, all these thoughts
are going through your mind. You can get back to recovery
when you get home or but and so I remember vividly calling my
(34:28):
sponsor while I was on that vacation after and telling him
about it. And you know, I think that saved
my life because in the moment you kind of forget, right?
You forget that you have to go and pick up the pieces after and
you have to live with your addict self again, right?
No one else is coming to save you after.
(34:48):
Yeah, I was just, I was thinkingwhen you were talking that I
remember I got out of treatment.I was about four months sober.
I went to Bahamas with my familyand my daughter and then the
fall that year, I was about 8 months sober and my, my sponsor,
the time to fish, we went to Mexico together.
And, and, and so I, I just kind of got used to being in recovery
(35:13):
and going on these trips and then, you know, traveling with
my sister, traveling with my daughter, traveling with
friends. And then last year we went on a
recovery trip to Mexico. So, and we're going again, yeah,
we're going again in March. So I, I feel like, you know,
it's, it's a good mixture of family and then also recovery
(35:34):
trips as well. Yeah, it's beautiful.
How so when life happens and youknow things happen in recovery
to you, and how would you say that you navigate through those
tough times when you know everything seems to be going
wrong or or not in your favor? How do you navigate through
that? So, so I think that having
(35:57):
people, the supportive people and, and really talking about it
is, is so important. I have some really fantastic
friends in, in recovery, rangingfrom, you know, 2526 years to,
you know, a couple years and, and they, they know me well.
I have some friends that I've known that I lived with.
(36:20):
And so we're living that are still sober and, and we're on
this journey together. So they know me the best.
And I also have a couple of normie friends that I can talk
to about things, but I find thatreaching out and just just
telling them how I'm feeling. Also staying connected to my
sponsor and, and my spirituality.
(36:41):
I think that that's kind of whathelps me when I'm when I'm
feeling those those certain low tides.
Yeah, I mean for me right now, you know, things are good.
It's everything is, is working out as it should.
I I have a problem with expectations.
That's that's my thing right nowwhere it's like, you know, this
(37:01):
this podcast used to be a lot more, I don't know, I would say
easy to get my head around doingright, all the work around it.
And lately I've been kind of just thinking like it's starting
to feel more like a job, right? And I've come to the realization
that it's solely because, and this is like a lot of things in
my life, I have an expectation attached to it.
(37:22):
It's like I'm at a point now where I'm not the the
expectation. I'm not getting what I thought I
wanted to get out of it, right? Whether it's the amount of
listeners or, you know, money from it or whatever.
And it all comes back to like, yeah, I have this expectation,
which is directly proportionate to my level of acceptance.
(37:45):
So my, what is it saying? My serenity is directly
proportional, inversely proportional to my level of
expectations, right? So the higher my expectations
are, the lower my serenity is in, in all scenarios.
And I have to remind myself, I was like, dude, you did this to
just stay sober and hopefully help one other person.
And you're achieving that, right?
So shut up. Yeah, it's, it's, it's a
(38:10):
beautiful thing that you're doing.
I think that it, it, it can helpsomebody that's that's watching
it and and maybe they can relateto to somebody that's on here.
And we can't do this alone. That's the main thing.
And I remember after I had my relapse, so many people reached
out to me, so many people showedup at my, at my door, friends in
(38:34):
recovery that that didn't give up on me, didn't turn their back
on me. You know, when I was using they,
they wouldn't necessarily give me money, but they would buy
food for me and stuff like that.And, and I don't forget that.
And you know, that's very important because we can't, we
can't do this alone. Yeah, yeah, The asking for money
(38:54):
is. That's a good one.
You know, enabling, right? Yeah.
If you could go back. I like asking this.
Somebody asked me this question once, and I hated it at first,
but now I really like it. It's if you could go back and
change your life to take like a life of a normal drinker instead
of an addict or a normal user instead of an addict, would you
(39:14):
take it? So that that's, you know, I used
to think that I would, I used tothink that if there was no
consequences, would I still continue that lifestyle?
And today I would say no, I would, I would rather be, you
know, have the lived experience.I wouldn't have the career I
have. I wouldn't have the people in my
(39:35):
life. I don't think that I would have
the partner that I have in my life.
I don't think I would have any of these things because, you
know, I've met so many incredible people in recovery
that we wouldn't have crossed their paths with each other,
right? So I, I love my life today and
I, and I'm grateful for, for what I've been through because,
(39:56):
you know, when I'm, even when I'm doing intakes and somebody
asks me like, do you understand addiction?
And, and I tell them a little bit, right?
So, so it makes them feel more comfortable and, and they're
like, oh, wow. And I, and I tell them like a
lot of our counselors have livedexperience.
They they can understand what you what you've gone through,
and they can empathize with you.And I've also, I'm also a a
(40:19):
mother, so I can understand the parents side of things where you
know, what I put my family through and I see that the
parents faces and just, you know, they just feel they, they
look lost and and broken becauseof what we put them through,
right. Yeah, I know.
It's, it's like I, I don't thinkI would have had the reason.
(40:43):
I don't want to say access to the toolkit that I have today
because it's available to anybody, but I wouldn't have had
the reason to get the toolkit that I have.
And yeah, things have happened in my life where I don't know if
they would have happened if I hadn't hit some sort of rock
bottom right. And there's a lot of growth that
comes after destruction, right? It breeds a lot of creation.
(41:06):
I'm stealing that from a Red HotChili's pepper song.
I think, you know, destruction leads to a very rough Rd. but it
also breeds creation, right? And I love that quote.
And it's the lead singer is alsoin recovery as well.
So it's a beautiful thing. You have to be able to learn
from from the experiences as well.
(41:27):
I think in the big book it says it might be worth a bad case of
jitters if you get a full knowledge of your condition.
So as long as you can learn fromfrom the experiences and you can
grow from them. I feel like anything that I've
been through, if it's, it's beenreally challenging, that's where
I've grown the most in recovery.You know, I, I got married in
(41:48):
recovery, I got divorced in recovery.
I went through a pretty dark time through that relationship
and, and I came out of it a stronger person as a result of
it. And, you know, you know, looking
back at my, at my life in activeuse, there's some, there's some
things that, that I went throughand I feel like I, I kind of put
(42:09):
myself in those dangerous situations, right?
So I think that I can I can better be prepared to help.
Someone it's like the sort of unique gift, right, that we can
offer to others. And as I'm sure you can attest,
addiction is not going anywhere,right?
It's getting worse. And yeah, I, I found it.
I find it interesting too, that there's with all the drugs that
(42:32):
are out now and you know, a lot of a lot of you see that the
data that a lot less people are drinking now, right?
That is, I, I still talk to a lot of Alcoholics too, where
it's like the drugs are not their problem at all.
And I find that really interesting, right, that it's
like, let me ask you this and maybe I don't know if there's
any science behind this or anything.
(42:52):
And maybe you your opinion on what do you think makes somebody
a stimulant user versus an alcohol or depressant user?
Like what do you think the difference is?
I've always been a stimulant guy.
I never liked being depressed. What do you think the difference
is between the two? That's, that's a, that's a good
question for me. I was, I was both, right?
I, I, I use stimulants and then I use Downers as well, right.
(43:16):
So, but I think that once you get comfortable with, with a
certain substance and you like the effect produced by it, then
it just becomes your, your failed solution, but you think
it's your solution at the time. So a lot of drinkers I talked
to, to a lot of Alcoholics and they, they are under the
impression that because it's legal, it's more acceptable and
(43:39):
it's not so bad. Sometimes I'll even say, is
there any other substances when I'm doing an intake or, or if I
say drugs and they're like, oh, no, no, I don't do drugs, but
alcohol is a drug. So, so it's, it's interesting to
see that they they kind of separate the two and I think
that it just becomes preference and, and what you're used to
(44:01):
and. And that's, I would assume that
that's the same with weed now too, right?
Where it's like, that's interesting.
Yeah. It's like this sort of
justification that you're not, you're OK, right.
You're, you know, everyone else is doing it.
I I don't think I was ever to make that justification because
people are not socially using cocaine.
Actually, maybe they are. But if you.
(44:22):
Yeah. If you, if you walk around and
you know, I, I would say most people aren't using socially
accepted use of cocaine or any drugs like that.
But yeah, that's an interesting distinction.
I never thought about that. OK, let's let's wrap it up with
this. If you could say something to
your younger, addicted self today, what would you say?
(44:46):
Very good question. I think that I would, I would
ask my younger self to listen and try and follow a little more
direction in life. And, you know, sometimes I look
back, I try not to have regrets,but I, I look back and I say,
you know, I wish maybe I was a little bit younger getting into
(45:08):
recovery. There's some things that, you
know, maybe because I'm a littlebit older, I, I can't
necessarily have or accomplish. Maybe I would have had more kids
or, and stuff like that, right. So I think that, you know, maybe
maybe, you know, I would, I would say to my younger self,
you know, try and try and get get your stuff together at a
(45:29):
little bit of a younger age. That going against that
defiance, right? That's I, I think that's the
crux of it all, really. For and, and like even today,
it's just to stay sober. It's going against that, you
know, better judgement in quotations that I, I think I
know what's best for me. And you said it perfectly.
(45:49):
The the best answer, like my worst, my biggest problem today
is I'm right, right. But it, it looks, it comes out
in the form of yeah, I know. And that's such a good way to
put it. It's like anytime I'm saying,
yeah, I know that's the red flag, huge red flag.
Thanks so much for coming down, Allison.
I appreciate it. Thank you for having me.
(46:10):
Thanks for listening. Please help us grow the channel
and like, share and subscribe for more content.
The discussions and stories shared on this podcast are for
informational and motivational purposes only.
This content is not a substitutefor professional medical advice,
addiction treatment, or therapy.If you or someone you know is
struggling with addiction, please consult the licensed
(46:31):
physician, addiction specialist,or mental health professional.
You are no longer alone.
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