August 26, 2025 • 60 mins
Patrick spent over two decades trapped in daily use, denial, and isolation. From high school parties to bartending life, from weed dependency to cocaine spirals, he believed recovery wasn’t possible. After losing relationships, hiding debts, and nearly losing his health, Patrick finally reached a breaking point when his family discovered the truth.
In this powerful conversation, Patrick shares how honesty and surrender opened the door to treatment — and how the support of family and the 12 steps gave him a new life. He opens up about childhood insecurity, the destructive grip of marijuana and cocaine, his eye-opening rehab experience, and the spiritual practices that keep him grounded today.
This is a raw and hopeful story about faith, service, and the freedom that comes with letting go. If you’ve ever felt alone in addiction, Patrick’s journey is living proof: recovery is possible.
00:00 – Introduction & Patrick’s first steps toward recovery
02:00 – First retreat experience & early sobriety milestones
05:40 – Childhood insecurity, masks, and constant worry
08:30 – High school party life: weed as his “higher power”
10:00 – Cocaine enters the picture in university
14:00 – Twelve years off hard drugs, but dependent on weed & alcohol
17:20 – Progression into bartending, debt, and isolation
20:20 – Dad’s stroke & the breaking point of honesty with family
24:00 – Entering rehab: resistance, breakthroughs, and self-love
29:00 – Discovering spirituality & meditation in recovery
40:00 – Daily essentials: prayer, meetings, kindness, connection
44:00 – The role of service and helping others in sobriety
47:00 – Letting go of outcomes & trusting the process
52:00 – Best advice: acceptance, empathy, and radical honesty
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
And they're like, well, what do you, what do you think you
should do? And I'm like, well, I think I
should get out of bartending, get another job and go to daily
meetings in Burlington. And they're like, what do you
think about going to a long termlike rehab place?
And I'm like, I think I should go to those places.
I'm like, I think I need to go there.
And I, and I'm, I was like, it was relief, like being honest
(00:21):
with them and telling them and them being supportive and
wanting to help was the completeopposite of how I thought it
would go in my head all those years that I thought about, if I
tell them this, I won't have access to my nieces or nephews.
My family's going to abandon me.My mom's sister died of
alcoholism and people talk shit about her.
(00:42):
So they're going to talk shit about me and I'm going to be out
of the family. And it was the complete
opposite. Complete.
Complete opposite. Hi there, welcome back or
welcome to Recovering Out Loud Podcast, the show where we get
real about mental health and addiction.
I'm so glad you're here. If you or someone you love is
struggling with drugs or alcohol, please reach out for
(01:04):
help. Send me a message on all social
media platforms at Recovering Out Loud Pod or by e-mail at
recoveringoutloudpod@gmail.com. You are no longer alone.
(01:33):
Getting used to this. This is nice.
There we go. Yeah.
This is good intimate setting here.
Patrick, thanks so much for coming down, brother.
I appreciate you. We met on that beautiful
retreat, Language of the Heart, that Mary was on as well, and Bo
was coming on here later. What was that like for you that
that experience? Have you ever been on anything
like that? What?
What was that experience like for you?
(01:53):
Yeah. So it's it was different than I
thought it was going to be. When I first signed up for it, I
thought it was a all male retreat.
And then I found out that it wasCoed, which is totally fine.
And it was more fun than I thought, Like I really thought
it would be. Like it sounds, yeah.
(02:16):
Like, intensive. Almost.
Yeah. Like really deep dive, but it
was those things like there was that opportunity, but then the
social aspect. I've never been to any event in
recovery that is like fun. Like I haven't, I'm new to
recovery so it was my first timelike going and like doing
(02:36):
karaoke and just going to a poolparty.
So those things were different than I thought and a lot of fun.
Yeah, they made it really comfortable too.
I mean, there's so there's a lotof firsts in recovery, right.
And I'm, I'm sure you're familiar with this.
You're 10 months long now. Yeah, just over and Congrats.
Yeah, That's that's huge. Is this your longest you've ever
(02:57):
been sober? Oh yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, you were like a a 10
minute guy before, like me scraping together 10 minutes
here and there. Yeah, pretty much.
Was using every day for 25 years.
I had one stretch where I went like 4 weeks.
That was my longest time withoutusing anything.
And probably white knuckling it the whole way.
(03:18):
I I flew to Portugal to get awayfrom everything and went to the
smallest island to make sure that I didn't have any contacts
and didn't have anything becauseat that point I was like, yeah,
I don't want to use anymore. But as soon as I came back.
There it is. Four days later, right back into
it, Yeah. Addiction's a funny thing,
right? But yeah, it was really
(03:39):
comfortable. And so there's a lot of firsts
in recovery, first wedding sober, like first, you know,
bonfire really, even though there was no bonfire because
it's stupid fire restriction, I'm still, I still upset about
that, but it's OK. We sat around in a circle and I
mean, like there's a lot of times in my life where that was
filled with drinking and drugs. Was sitting in that circle
(04:00):
outside in the, you know, cottage country, whatever.
And I'll tell you, stimulants and fire pits like fire in
cottages, Stimulants in cottagesdon't mix very well at all.
Oh no. It's like the worst drug to pair
with. You know, people are smoking
(04:20):
weed and drinking and you're just fucking in your chair just
jittering. Oh my God, jittery.
Yeah, I've had some bad, well, memorable campfires for sure,
where, you know, it's just amazing that some, no one died.
We had like a grad trip in high school.
These girls stole a tractor tire.
(04:42):
That was what we used for our fire ring.
The fire got massive with a tractor tire being the outside
ring, and people are jumping over it.
We're throwing cans of things into the fire pit.
I'm assuming gasoline was involved.
Yeah, yeah. And yeah, I remember 1, like
something got thrown in the fire.
It exploded. I got hit in the ear and I
(05:04):
thought my ear was like gone. And my buddy used to flashlight.
He's like, it's beans. Someone threw a can of beans in
and it just smoked, smoked my ear.
And I thought I was on a lot of substances.
And, you know, yeah, just playing with fire, literally the
metaphor. Like, I played with fire for so
long, but at cottages, yeah, it was always just grab the cooler,
(05:24):
set up shop and a lot of times pass out, you know, at the fire.
Yeah, everyone stops and you know, we're keep, we keep going,
right? Oh, yeah.
That was the story of my life. So I want to get into a little
bit about your story and what brought you into recovery.
But why don't you tell us, tell us about like, what childhood
was like for you? All right, Yeah, I grew up in a
(05:45):
really good family. I'm the youngest of four kids
and being the youngest, I was very like insecure kind of from
the start. My older siblings are fantastic.
But like any kid growing up, youknow, you pick on the the
youngest 1, you know, so a lot of feelings of like, I'm not
(06:06):
going to be smart enough to everlearn how to write an essay.
I'm really young, so you know, I'm my, when I get to be like
30, my parents will be 70. Oh my God, they'll be dead.
Like, just a lot of black and white thinking and distorted
thinking where I I grew up. Yeah.
(06:26):
Really insecure and really not confident in myself.
So I learned kind of at an earlyage to wear masks.
Like I started to do, you know, impersonations of actors and try
to get a laugh out of people 'cause that's kind of the only
way that I felt accepted was like by not being myself kind
(06:47):
of. But I grew up in a good family.
I played sports, was involved inmusic like was in swimming.
Like basically how I could describe it is during the day I
was filled by doing activities and and things.
And then when it came to night time, as far as I can remember,
whenever it was time to go to bed, I'd be in my bed replaying
(07:08):
the day and overthinking about this person.
Oh, I shouldn't have said this because now they don't like me
or oh, tomorrow I've got to do this and I'm not going to be
smart enough to do it. So for me, like bedtime was
always. The worst interesting like ever
since you can remember just from.
Literally when I was like, I canremember being like from four
(07:29):
years old till, you know, adulthood, bedtime was when I
would be up for hours just worrying, just constant worry
and fear about what the next daywill bring.
What happened that day? Oh my God, they don't like me.
I shouldn't have said that, you know, and just like trying to
(07:51):
rewrite the script about, OK, how can I do this or what can I
do to fix this? So like, yeah, I, I could, I, I
would be awake for hours. And that was just.
Ruminate. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Was that the reason that you turned to drugs and alcohol?
Like to quiet that noise, would you say?
(08:12):
I'd say like I wanted. I always wanted validation, so I
wanted to like find my way to the popular crowd, right?
And in high school, like in grade 9, that was my way into
the popular crowd. My parents went away on a
three-week vacation, so my sister and I threw a three-week
party. And that was when the popular
(08:35):
kids came to hang out with me because I had a place for them
to come. And that's when I started doing
drugs and alcohol. And it was like a OK, I'm in
like I'm in with these guys now.So I want to keep this going.
And I find like with with weed, which was like my higher power
(08:58):
for 25 years like that was that always remained.
Other things came in and out, but weed was like, I can now
like go to bed. So like, you know, it would
ease, it would ease my way of anxiety and things like that.
That was kind of like my wake up, do that.
OK, I can go to do this now. It was kind of like I had to
(09:19):
smoke weed before doing anything.
And then at the end of the night, like smoke till you pass
that kind of thing. Like I still would be worried,
but you just consume so much that that was my answer.
Alcohol was like the social party thing to do.
But we became my dependent in high school.
Yeah. And so at what moment did you
(09:39):
realize that it was getting really bad, like when you first
realized that this was a problem?
Say probably like, OK, we'd go out like on a Saturday night or
(09:59):
whatever and the we'd go to a party or a house party or
whatever. And then you get home at like
whatever, I'd probably be home at like 1:00 in the morning at
that time or 12 and I'd get homeand I'd go on to like MSN
Messenger. Remember that like that was
before Instagram and everything there was MSN Messenger and my
(10:20):
one buddy was like a dealer and I'd always message him being
like, can I come over? And I needed to keep it going.
So that was like mid high school, but I didn't really have
any awareness that it was a serious problem.
I just was like, this is what I need.
I can't like be at home. I need to keep the party going.
(10:40):
It's probably not until till I like was introduced to cocaine
that that was kind of when I sawthat like, OK, my personality is
very addictive and this thing isreally getting me into trouble.
(11:02):
I kind of got by through high school and like was on sports
teams and did OK in school. So it didn't really hit me that
it was affecting me that much during the high school years.
It was kind of like when I was introduced to cocaine and how
that took over my life pretty quickly.
And you know, yeah, I can get into that, too.
(11:25):
Well, I mean, yeah, like what was your first experience?
Was it the same thing? Like people had it and you
wanted to fit in 'cause that wasme too.
It was my experience was the same thing.
It was at a party and I had stayed away from it for a while
because it scared the shit out of me.
Right. Like it was, that was like the
one thing I was never gonna do. I got into alcohol.
I got into weed. I didn't really like weed.
I would always green out. I was that guy.
I would always, you know, it, itnever really agreed with me.
(11:48):
But I remember at being at a party one time and a, a guy had
known that people, some people were doing it and it was just
like right in the open, like they, they had it on ACD case
and they're like, they basicallywere like, I don't want to say
they forced me, but it felt forced in that moment.
But I also wanted to do it and to fit in and because everyone
else was doing it and I didn't necessarily, I wasn't excited
(12:08):
about the outcome. You know what I mean?
It was more so, yeah, to like appease my friends and also this
is this is here now and peer pressure and whatever, right?
What was that like for you, thatfirst experience?
Yeah, I was in university and mylike, guys I hung out with all
the time. The I knew that they had started
to do it, but it was something growing up like yourself, like I
(12:31):
was like, I'll never do that. Like that was like, there's no
way I'm going to do that. That will kill me, you know.
Whereas weed and alcohol, I was like, OK, well, everyone seems
to be, well, not everyone, but alot of people seem to be doing
this. And I wasn't that scared of it,
but yeah, like it just came about.
We went to the bar and then afterwards they were like, want
(12:52):
to come with us? And I was in residence at Guelph
and they went down to like the basement of the res and like,
you want to go lift some weightswas the code word.
I want to go to the weight room.And they would, and I and I went
and I, I joined them because I honestly saw I'm like, well,
they didn't die and they can stay up later now.
(13:16):
And just, I was blind to the writ.
Like I was just like, yeah, I'm doing it.
And once I did it the first time, I was like, this is
amazing. You know, like it was like,
whoa. And so for that year at Guelph,
the one year I, I, I did it, andit was probably for about a year
(13:36):
and a half when I was like 19 to20.
And then IA good friend of mine got on my case about it.
I like basically flunked out of Guelph.
I could have, I never went to school, so I was just doing
partying, like full time party, you know, almost got kicked out
of rez, like could have gone back on probation.
(13:58):
But once my parents actually found out about my grades, like
we're getting you out of there. So I think I did it a couple of
times after that year. But by the next Christmas, a
good friend of mine was like, well, I'm worried about you.
This isn't like, why do you needto be doing this?
And I saw I'm like, yeah, I'm like, I really fucked up that
(14:20):
year. So I stopped doing any hard drug
from that point when I was like 21 and stayed away from from
cocaine until I was 33. I went 12 years without doing
hard drugs and just went back toweed and alcohol, which caused
me a lot of problems, which I can get into too.
But I had for whatever reason was able to stop doing the hard
(14:46):
stuff for for a while. Yeah, and then it ultimately
came back. But no, I think it's, I, I, I do
want to get into it because there's this thing, there's this
thing around weed that it gets classed with alcohol now where
it's like, I'm not gonna ruin mylife.
It's not that bad. It's, it's legal, right?
All these things. I had another guy on the podcast
here that it, it nearly burned his life to the ground, right?
(15:06):
Like he really struggled. He couldn't do anything, you
know what I mean? It took away all his motivation,
his drive, his personality to your point.
So I think it's important to like, what did the, what did
those years look like while you were doing that?
Like what was the progression like?
Yeah, so I left Guelph and then got into, went to Mohawk College
and like got involved in athletics again and things like
(15:30):
that. But every like, like I told you,
like I needed to smoke weed as soon as I woke up in between
every class. If I didn't have it, I couldn't
focus on anything. Like if there was no way I could
go without it. And if I was running low, then I
was going to do everything I could call every dealer I could.
(15:51):
This is before it was legalized,right?
Like so my, the obsession of my mind was purely focused on
having it and making sure I had enough and you know, stealing
money from my parents if I had to selling stuff, you know,
everything kind of revolved around it.
Then I started dealing it because I'm like, hey, if I
(16:13):
start to grab it, then I can sell to all my friends and I can
smoke for free. Well, you know, you end up just
not just just smoking it and having to pay for it yourself,
you know, but I got through, I don't know, weed.
I, I, I really was like Bob Marley, you know, Rasta man,
(16:34):
like peace and happiness. And, you know, I thought that
that would, would be OK for me. So the alcohol was when I got
into more problems with police and problems blacking out and
more, more things came with the alcohol.
The weed was just like the necessity had to have it.
(16:59):
If I didn't have it then, then Iwould be only one track mind
thinking about it. And if I didn't have it, I was a
miserable, angry, irritable person.
But it was like, you know, they say it's like a slow
progression. I found that weed like in my
head was the answer for a reallylong time and I didn't think
(17:20):
anything was wrong. I really didn't think anything
was wrong with it for till I pretty much till I came into
recovery and realized how it waslike.
My entire life revolves around substance.
Yeah, yeah. And So what was the moment like?
Can you walk us through like what ultimately took you down to
your last Yeah, drink or drug? Yeah, for sure.
(17:43):
The last like 6 years were basically like I always wanted
like a girl and then the last girl that I seriously dated
broke up with me. And at that point I basically
sold my soul to the devil is howI, what I would say like
anything that it was like, I'll never do that.
I was just like, I'm doing it because fuck, fuck everyone, you
(18:07):
know, like, and I got out of like I used to work in mental
health. I got out of that career.
I started bartending. I moved to Honduras and started
to do scuba diving, and that's when I picked up doing coke
again was when I went to Honduras.
And I was right before COVID, I was doing, you know, on the
small island, all backpackers. They're all like 18 to 24.
(18:29):
I'm 36, you know, being like sweet right back in it, you
know, and that's when it kind ofjust took over.
COVID shut the island down. I moved back home and from COVID
it was like, OK, now I can isolate and use drugs and pretty
much from COVID till last October, that was what I did.
(18:54):
I isolated and was doing coke and I bartend.
And then last year in August, I was like, sorry, I went to like
Portugal to try and get off of it, 'cause my life, I was in
debt and wasn't going to work and living at my parents' house
and lying to them, lying to everyone.
I'm like, I need to stop this because like literally like my
(19:17):
life is I have no life. So I went to Portugal, did 4
weeks where I was clean with no solution, no recovery plan.
Just like white knuckle it go somewhere that's beautiful to
distract. Yourself.
Geological cure. Geographical Cure.
And then I came back from there and within four days I was
grabbing. And then that last 14 months,
(19:39):
the progression of how much I was grabbing, knowing I didn't
want to be doing it. I'm like, I don't want to do it.
Wake up in the morning like I'm not doing it.
By 2:00 I got a bag and I've called off work and I'm in my
parents basement. But I have to lie to them to say
I am going to work so that I'm driving parking lot to parking
lot till I get paranoid, sellingmy clothes out of the back of my
(20:00):
car so that I have enough money to grab a bag, you know?
And then my dad had a stroke last September and he's in the
hospital and I'm like, I need tolike, be there.
But I'm too much of A coward to tell any of my family members
(20:21):
that I don't have a job. And I've got three older
siblings. So I'd go do the hospital stuff.
And I'd always go by myself so Icould use do some lines in the
bathroom while he's sitting there.
And I'm like, can't. I'm like have numbness in my
left arm. And I'm like, I wonder who's
going to go first, him or me, you know, And I'm lying saying
(20:44):
I'm going to work. So my siblings are driving him
from Pickering or Toronto to come see my dad in Burlington.
And then one night, my mom and my brother went to the hospital
to see my dad. I said I was working.
They went to my restaurant afterthey visited.
And the manager goes, oh, Pat, he, he hasn't worked here for a
couple months. And my brother messaged me.
(21:08):
And that was I made a parking lot by myself high out of my
mind. And I see the message and I'm
like, I give up. I'm exhausted.
I have nothing left. I, I can't go on like this.
How am I gonna, I can't lie my way out of this anymore.
And in my head I'm like, I can'tbe honest 'cause I can't let
(21:30):
them down because I need to be there for my dad while he's in
the hospital. This is like the only time in
our life where I really need to be there for someone.
I'm like, but I can't stop. And so I had to come clean and I
told my siblings and my mom I go.
I've been trying to, yeah, I'm, I'm addicted to substance.
(21:51):
I've been trying to get off of it by myself for a few years and
I really can't. And I really need help.
And they all supported me. The next day, my brother and two
sisters came down, took me to dinner, and my sister had been
on the phone lines with addiction centers all day.
And she's just like, what are you using?
(22:13):
How often are you using it? How much money are you in debt?
And I was like all answering allof these things and, and they're
like, well, what do you, what doyou think you should do?
And I'm like, well, I think I should get out of bartending,
get another job and go to daily meetings in Burlington.
And they're like, what do you think about going to a long term
(22:35):
like rehab place? And I'm like, I think I should
go to those places. I'm like, I think I need to go
there and I and I'm I was like, it was relief, like being honest
with them and telling them and them being supportive and
wanting to help was the completeopposite of how I thought it
would go in my head. All those years that I thought
about if I tell them this, I won't have access to my nieces
(22:57):
or nephews. My family's going to abandon me.
My mom's sister died of alcoholism and people talk shit
about her, so they're going to talk shit about me and I'm going
to be out of the family. And it was the complete
opposite, complete, complete opposite where they found
facilities for me to go to and they said we're willing to help
in any way that that you need. That's that's such an important
(23:21):
message, man. I think, I think a lot of people
need to hear that, that it's like that that's, that keeps
people sick for so long is how they're going to be perceived if
they come out and tell the truth, right?
I, there's such a stigma around it.
And one of the reasons I startedthis podcast was to kind of, you
know, I don't think we'll ever break the stigma or, or just,
you know, but it's like, yeah, well, however I think it's going
(23:42):
to go in my head, it never goes in any situation, right?
I, it's my mind lies to me, my addiction lies to me and tells
me it's going to be this way andit never is.
It's such an important message to to get that out there that
it's like there are people you might you just don't see it.
There are people that are willing to help you and do
whatever it takes and come to bat put, you know, go to bat for
you. But you won't know until you
fucking ask, right? You won't know until you admit
(24:04):
and get on it. Step one.
It's like I have a problem and Ican't control it.
My life is unmanageable. And we were what is it again?
We were we can't our lives, yeah, we we can't control it.
Our lives are unmanageable. And I need help, right?
I can't do this on my own. So, you know, I, I think that's,
that's a really big moment. So what was rehab like going
(24:26):
into rehab and and then coming out and what's life like today?
Yeah, so going into rehab, I remember being like, well, I had
at that point I was like extremely felt guilt that I'm
leaving my family while my dad'sin the hospital and.
And meanwhile, they're like. He's in the hospital, he's going
(24:48):
to be here for a few months. He's getting the care.
Like all we can do is go visit him during visiting hours.
And I, there's enough people that are going to visit him
where it's like this is the timeyou need to go.
Like this is when you need to. So I was very like upset with
myself. I'm really hard on myself for
being there. And I remember the first day I
(25:09):
walked in and people are all outside under the gazebo and
they're like, hi, hi. And this one guy just comes up
and gives me the biggest hug andhe goes.
Welcome home bro. Welcome to the family.
You're going to love yourself. And I looked at him and I was
like, no fucking way. And I went into my room and
stayed in my room 'cause I was like, no, I'm like, no way.
(25:31):
I'm like, I'm like this guy. I'm afraid of that guy and like,
I'm not going to love myself. You don't know what I've been
through, you know, like, so the first day I yeah, was kind of in
in my room. And I remember the first night,
the mattress, my back hurt and Iwas yelling at the nurses.
I'm like, I need a firmer mattress if I'm going to be
(25:53):
staying here for 45 days. I got to, you know, what do you,
can you get me a new mattress? And I'm just like out of my
mind, right? And, and then the next day I
really was like, OK, let's let'sgo in.
And every day was just like better and better.
(26:13):
When I, once I started to go to the classes and once I got a
primary counselor, I, I, it was for me like camp man, like I
loved it. Like, I loved all the people and
the counselors. And it taught me a lot about how
it is a disease. I had no idea.
(26:34):
I honestly didn't know it was classified as a disease and
that, you know, if a lot of people have it and that there is
a solution. And once I cried a lot.
Like, I cried a lot. Yeah.
Especially once there are peoplethat I like, got close with.
(26:55):
And when they were leaving, I would be the one like, you'd go
around and share and I'd be the one who's an emotional wreck.
For me, it was like an emotionalpurge of years because I
couldn't be emotional prior to we're going to rehab.
So yeah, it was a lot of crying for me.
But like, for the most part, good tears are being like.
(27:19):
Necessary. Yeah, like, I'm like, I wish
this person well, and they helped me a lot.
But, yeah, I learned it's a disease that, you know, holding
resentments, like is really drinking poison and expecting
the other person to die. So I let was able to like, see,
I guess my counselor showed me my part.
(27:40):
And that was like a revelation for me of being like, oh, my
God, Like, I am judgmental. I am critical of other people.
I am a people pleaser. I, you know, have carried these
little things that happened to me in my life for decades and
(28:01):
hung on to them and they've I'vebeen sick because I'm hanging on
to things that now when I look at like those things that I was
holding on to, I can be like, it's not mine to carry, you
know, like I don't, that's not, that's not on me, you know, like
I don't need to carry this anymore.
I'm, I'm worthy, you know, and Iremember there was a counselor
(28:23):
that kind of was like, do you love yourself on conditioning?
I go, I don't love any. I don't have anything that I
like about myself at all. And by the time that was like in
week 1 and then by the time thatI left after 45 days, I was
like, I'm starting to like myself, you know, like starting,
(28:43):
you know, working out, being nice to people, taking
accountability, finding a higherpower.
Like I was introduced to meditation there.
I had no concept of what a higher power was.
So, you know, I thought I was like God before, not actually,
but trying to play God was what I was trying to do, arrange
everyone. And you know, if people were
(29:07):
fighting or their relationships,I'd just be just pick everything
apart. And then I was just like,
radical acceptance of like, thisis how people are.
So there's a lot of sick people and you should probably pray for
them as opposed to change them. Just pray for them.
Yeah, yeah, there's a huge mindset shift, right?
Like that's what recovery does. Is it?
It shifts my perspective on it and my perception.
(29:27):
And hey, maybe like you said, maybe this isn't mine to carry.
Maybe I have a part in this. Maybe they can live their life
and be OK and I can be OK. Like what a concept, right?
I they don't have to live according to my script that.
Yeah, you said a lot of good stuff there.
Did you have any moments, you know, backtracking a bit where
you, you know, you came close to, I don't know, some really
(29:50):
risky situations where you like were like, well, that was close
and then you kind of got out of it or or was it like, what was
that like like post rehab no before like in your addiction
if. We oh close calls.
Yeah Oh yeah, definitely. Like honestly I've drank and
(30:11):
drove for two decades so puttingmyself at risk with that for
sure. I got one DUI where I don't
remember leaving the bar. Apparently a couple video
recorded me from when I got in my car 'cause I guess was
staggering and then I somehow ended up in my.
(30:33):
I had a townhouse at that time. I ended up parked, passed out
and the cop, I woke up to the cherries behind me and I was had
no idea of how I got there. So I had to obviously go to
court for that. Luckily, I didn't kill anyone
like I'm it. The fact that I didn't ever
(30:54):
injure somebody or myself badly is is God's doing.
Yeah, because I definitely was behind the wheel a lot.
That was the one that I had to tell my parents about.
Outside of that, smashed a curb once, backed into a pole another
(31:15):
time and then got another almostDUI where I was in the Warren
range. So a lot of the.
Breathalyzer. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So there was a lot and I kept all those a secret, right 'cause
(31:36):
I could be like, oh, someone hitme.
Oh, they, you know, the car in front of me put their brake
lights on. So I would do these things and
I, you know, I'm single and liveby myself or whatever.
So I was able to really like hide a lot of a lot of my
troubles and just like get away with them without taking any
(32:00):
responsibility for them. But yeah, those, probably the
drinking and driving are where Ireally put the most people and
myself at risk. The most ironic story would be
that I left work one day and when I was working in Toronto at
(32:24):
like 5:00 PM and I was I was sober and I just left work and I
go around the corner and a guy comes flying around me and I got
T boned by a drunk driver. All airbags go off full.
Like I luckily only got whiplashout of it, but my car was
totaled. And I remember calling my family
(32:47):
and I'd been in so many car accidents before they were at
the cottage. And I'm like, hey, I'm, I got
into Jackson and they're like, was it your fault?
Was the first thing they said. And when they said that, I got
so mad that they like, I got so mad at them.
And I held a huge resentment that they didn't ask if I was
(33:08):
like, OK, that they first were like, is it your fault?
And then, you know, they didn't leave the cottage to come see me
in the hospital. And I built this huge resentment
towards them, even though like if you play the tape back every
time it was my fault. Every time I've been in trouble,
you know? And the next day I got a rental
(33:28):
car and they're at the cottage. So I'm in town by myself and I
go to the bar at 11 AM and I getblackout blackout drunk with the
bartender just me and her and the day after I get T boned by a
drunk driver. I back the rental car up into a
pole and cause $5000 worth of damage.
(33:51):
Drive the car back, park it underground, pass it.
Next morning I wake up. That was the first time that I
had any recollection that I did that.
That's that's addiction, man, like right there.
I mean, that's alcoholism, that's addiction right there.
Despite adverse consequences, I'm still going, right?
No matter what. And yeah, I, I, I can relate to
that. Like, fuck them, I'm going to
(34:13):
show them, right? I'm going to go and get nice and
drunk and high and I'm going to show them when meanwhile you do.
My therapist always used to say this, like, the only person
you're saying fuck you to is yourself every time you do that,
right? And I would use that of
resentment too. It's like, I'm going to show
them. Like, fuck them, I'll do
whatever I want. This.
And it's all this ego thing, right?
Yeah, that's powerful, man. I, I truly believe that the
(34:34):
universe God's, you know, whatever higher power you, you
have, right for me, I just call it God, but it's like, you know,
there he's showing you, the universe is showing you these
signs, right? And it's like you to your point,
you get into rehab and then you,you just have so much emotion
because of all this stuff that has happened and occurred in
your life. And you finally, rehab was
(34:54):
really good for me too, because I was able to just have a
different perspective on all theshit that I did, a sober
perspective, a real perspective of like, damn, I was a tornado
man. And like my parents, you know,
they, they had so many sleeplessnights, right?
So, you know, when your parents answer the phone like that, my
first thought is like, yeah, no,like I completely get that,
(35:15):
right. You, you put you put us through
all this. Like, you know, that that would
be my first question too, right.But yeah, I think it's a it's a
very important like that is alcoholism, that is addiction.
It's like I don't have a choice anymore in the matter, right?
This is not a thing of willpower.
This is a disease. It's progressive and it's fatal,
you know, So I'm, I'm really glad that you got into to
(35:36):
recovery, man. We need more of more people.
We need more, you know, it's, there's a lot of people
suffering out there. So what?
What is faith, Spirituality. God?
What does that look like to you today?
Yeah, I, I, I say the word God, 'cause it's easy, right?
But for me, I always like enjoyed nature, like, so at
(36:00):
first when they're like introduced into the 12 stuff
like you need to find some sort of higher power and like you can
be at whatever you want it to be.
So I first was just kind of likethe, you know, Spirits of the
Universe was kind of what I thought about and great
outdoors, you know. Yeah, the outdoors was always
somewhere where like I would find peace and tranquility, like
(36:22):
if I'm in the middle of take a canoe out to the middle of the
lake and sit and just look at the reflections off the water
and trees or whatever. So that's how I first like, was
like, OK, And then I started to go to the meditations and during
meditation, I like created a good bond with the instructor at
(36:43):
the rehab who was leading it. And I really like took his
suggestions. And I remember the first few
times, you know, I was like, OK,well, my mind like was still
racing kind of like I couldn't really totally settle in, but
I'm like, it was a good thing todo.
Just take a break from everything and sit and breathe.
(37:06):
And then I remember it was like,probably like fourth time that I
did meditation, one of the clients was leaving the next
day. And the instructors like, if you
have any, you know, energy to pass on to this person, like try
to send some energy. And I remember getting that
like, Zing of energy up my spine, like goosebumps almost
(37:32):
like sometimes when I used to like use, you know, that feeling
where you like that first littleinkling of like, Oh my gosh,
there's something going on. And I felt that.
And I was like, whoa, I'm like, I've never felt that sober
before, you know? And that really was like my
first sign that I was connectingto something bigger than myself.
(37:53):
And it's like, I guess they callit like fission when you get
like goosebumps or energy through your body.
And after that point, I just embraced that.
And at first, it was only through meditation that I would
get those feelings. But then it was like when I hear
a guest speaker and they say something, it shoots up in my
spine when I think, you know, I'm around my family or
(38:17):
whatever, and I see like a beautiful moment.
I get these things when. Yeah.
And it started to become, it wasn't just a meditation
anymore. It was like when something
happens throughout the day, could be anything, whether it's
in nature, whether it's someone speaking, whether you know it's
someone's relapse story, whethernow sober, like it happens all
(38:37):
the time for me where that's howI feel.
It's like there's something going on that is way, way bigger
than me that I'll never know howto explain.
I don't want to even try to explain what my higher power is.
All I know is that like, I'm alive today because I feel the
grace of God and that, you know,I now have work to do that I
(39:02):
want to do, to do things for other people because I was so
self-centered and selfish, but he kept me alive and now I
don't. The stuff I felt shame and guilt
about is like, I want to tell itso that it helps someone else,
you know, So I've really feel like even when I was bringing
that up, I, I feel these vibes. I feel these vibes and I am
(39:26):
comfortable being like I'll never have the capacity or the
intelligence to be able to say what my higher power is.
All I know is it isn't me and it's out there and it's it's
keeping me sober. And I love that.
Yeah, you explained that really well.
I hadn't heard it explained likethat in a while.
This sort of like the opposite of addiction is connection, they
say. A lot of people say.
(39:47):
I think Johann Hari was the first one to say that on a Ted
talk. And I, I heard that in treatment
and it blew me away when I saw that Ted talk.
But it's so true, man. Like I'm so isolated for so long
in my disease and all I care about is pleasing, Anthony.
That's all I care about. self-centered, selfish, like you
said. And then I come into recovery
and I start to feel this connection with the story of
(40:08):
this connection with the universe, this connection with
the with nature. It's a beautiful thing, man, you
know? But I have to be open to it and
I have to do something about it or else it just kind of, I don't
even notice it sometimes, right?It it'll just pass.
And yeah, it's a beautiful thing.
What are what are some like daily essentials must do's in
(40:29):
recovery for you today to stay sober?
Yeah, so every morning when I wake up, a lot of the time I
when my eyes first open, I'm like, why am why am I awake?
Why didn't I sleep longer? I don't want to do anything.
So it's immediately. The Step 3 for me is like.
(40:50):
God. I'm Patty, I'm powerless to
drugs, alcohol, women, money, everything basically, and I am
basically and I am life. I'm powerless to life.
So please, please help me. Show me the next right step.
Show me how to be of service to you and to others and please
help me stay sober today. Thank you.
That is like how I have to startevery morning by turning my will
(41:13):
and my life over every day and then I hop on like a a
meditation morning meditation meeting and that gets my day
regardless of how I wake up in the morning.
Cause a lot of times it is that not pleased.
It switches me and by 9:00 AM everyday I'm like, OK, now I can
(41:33):
set forth and go forward. I need to like every day is be a
good human being. So, you know, for me, I find
it's like, you know, saying hi to people on the elevator or
holding the door open or, you know, just returning a shopping
cart or like just like small little acts of kindness for me
(41:55):
is something that I want to do at all times.
I want to talk to my mom every day as well.
Like we have like a group threadthrough my family that we text
on. But I like want to talk to my
mom because it probably caused her the most harm out of
everyone and our relationships better.
I usually am at a meeting every night or I'm doing like a
(42:23):
sponsee. I have a sponsee now, so I'm
taking them through the book andthen I now like that.
I'm 10 months and I started playing like a sport.
So at night I got to like eitherbe on a team at a team meeting
or being somebody's teammate, you know?
(42:45):
Literally the opposite of isolation.
Yeah, yeah, I gotta I gotta be connected some way shape or
form. Yeah, the essentials are, are
are making recovery 1st is my essential.
You know, it's given me a life now that I have, but that is
like pretty much my focus all day is like how can I live
(43:07):
within these 12 steps and how can I practice these 12 steps?
And for me now the 12th step is like my most important one is
like I want to help. So I never thought that my story
would be helpful to anyone. I figured it would have a tragic
ending. That was my distorted thinking
(43:28):
before, and now I feel like, youknow, been around enough to be
like, yeah, that my, my story could actually help someone.
Yeah, I love it, man. What does service do for you in
terms of the one-on-one? Because honestly, bro, by far
that's still my favorite part ofrecovery is taking another guy
through the steps, through the book.
(43:50):
What does it do for you? Gets me out of my head because
during like rehab, your program is 24/7 basically.
And then I went to sober living for three months after rehab
where you're programmed a lot there as well.
Yeah. And now I live on my own in an
apartment, so. And I've had one job.
(44:11):
I got fired from the other job. I had to resign because it
wasn't really safe anymore. So I've been in a flux of like,
I have time, so I need to be of service 'cause like I can only
do a meeting, go work out, you know, go to the pool for an
hour, like. 3 hours a day. For me, it's like it gets me out
(44:31):
of my head, 'cause my thinking still is insane.
If I'm sitting there by myself, I can spin, I can be like, oh,
what if this happens? What if this happens?
You know, Oh my God, I made a mistake here.
I should sit in self pity and, you know, eat junk food the rest
of the day and not talk to anyone.
So for me gives me purpose. It's like I need service so that
(44:53):
I get out of my head and that I can go see other people and
build some self worth back into my life and realize that I'm not
alone. So when we were in sober living,
they like like be of service, beof service, be of service.
We're like, I have two months. I'm like, you can't be a service
at a Home group till you're a year, right?
(45:15):
Like, so we just thought of waysthat we could go and do stuff
and we kind of like took it uponourselves to just like go down
and do stuff for people who are living on the streets.
And for me, I, I love it, man. Like it's, it's my favorite part
of, of the program is volunteering or, or being going
(45:36):
to my Home group and setting up the chairs.
And you know, like seeing other people who have years of
addiction and being able to talkto them like they're being of
service is like me being of service people are being service
of to me. So it's it's like a total cycle
of like it's not just me going to help.
(45:56):
I'm actually being helped for sure.
I always say it's like the pyramid scheme without the
scheme, right? Like the recovery, you know,
meetings, all that stuff. It's like this beautiful pyramid
scheme that there's no catch, right?
It's like people, they want to do things to help you, but also
it helps them. And it's yeah, it's this
beautiful sort of give and take to like cycle that like you
(46:17):
said. I love that man.
What's something that you're, you know, you've been recently
working on personally, like something that you're you're
trying to work on? Letting go of outcomes same yes,
yeah, you know, like the whole like putting your entire life
(46:40):
into into God's will for me, like my defects of character
will come up where it's like fear of being alone, financial
insecurity. So, you know, not obsessing over
what job is going to make me themoney or what, what job do I
need to get. And really just being like, you
(47:01):
know what, let go of all that stuff.
Just stick in the middle of the 12 step program and you will be
rewarded. So like, really what I've been
working on through this, like transition of job is doing more
within the 12 steps because the promises come true if I actually
(47:21):
do what I'm supposed to do, which is, you know, be right in
the middle of that. And that's why I like, I went on
the retreat. That's why, you know, I don't
say no when I'm asked to do something.
And yeah, it just gives me the purpose.
But yeah, really letting go of outcomes completely is what I'm
(47:44):
trying to work on because I don't know how to do a lot of
things without that payoff, right?
Like without knowing there's a payoff.
Like for instance, if I were to like back in the day, like I'm
not dating anyone, but in the back in the day, it's like,
(48:05):
well, I'm only going to go out with her up to this, you know,
like if I know that we're going to be a thing or I'm going to
get something out of it. And now it's like just speaking
to girls as friends is a new thing for me.
I don't know how it's like just talking to people without any
expectation or any outcome. And same with like going and
(48:27):
trying something new and having no idea how to do it or, or what
it is. Like this.
I've never done a podcast like we'll just go and talk, like
just go. And so just showing up and, and
really trying to be a helpful and, and realizing that
everything that is supposed to happen will happen.
If you live within, you know, the 12 steps in being a good
(48:50):
human being, then God will take care of you.
So letting go of all that has been what I'm working on.
I agree man, I'm struggling withthat too.
But it's also like, you know, the 12 steps and the 12
principles behind them too is soimportant, right?
Because in my daily life, if I'mpracticing honesty, hope, faith,
(49:11):
you know, brotherly love, service, humility, like all
these things, if I'm just tryingmy best, I'm not going to be
perfect. Progress, not perfection.
We are not Saints, right? If I constantly practice that
things are going to work out, you know, they might not work
out on my time. They might not work out the way
I wanted them to work out. But you know, invariably, every
(49:32):
single time I'm going to find out, just like the book says,
that what I wanted, what I needed was what I wanted the
whole time, right? So what I actually needed is
what I actually is what I reallywanted the whole time, right?
I think I want this. I think I want 10,000 followers
on Instagram. I think I want my podcast to
blow up and make money. But at the end of the day, it's
(49:54):
like, no, dude, you get to fucking sit down for two hours
out of the day with a really cool person in recovery every
single time. Talk recovery, talk hope, talk,
talk faith and maybe help one person, you know what I mean?
What a beautiful thing in and ofitself.
Shut up. You know, just just be grateful,
right? Like just just be grateful that
(50:16):
you get to do that. And you learned how to do all
this stuff. And like things have been
happening where it's like, yeah,you know, I, I get like messages
from people that I don't even know sometimes.
And I'm like, holy shit. Like I didn't think that real,
that podcast, that thing, I didn't think that was helping
it. Like, I thought that was shit.
I didn't think that helped anybody.
I didn't think there was no any message of hope, you know, of,
(50:38):
of recovery or, or hope or faithin that.
And then it's like, you know, somebody messages me and like,
man, I never realized that I didthis or that or thank you.
And I'm just like, Oh yeah, you did your job right.
Like you, you did your service for today, you know.
Yeah, yeah. It was always like, you know, I
(51:02):
had it, I had it and now I lost it.
Sorry, live. People, that was a good thing.
We're not alive. But it was always like, for me,
it couldn't be about me. It was like, OK, well, you can
come to me and I'll. You can buy drugs from me or,
you know, I'll be able to serve you at the bar or what can.
(51:26):
Like, I always thought of myselfhaving to have something for
someone to like, get value out of me.
Like I needed to have something else other than my own self.
It was like, there's no way thatanyone wants to hear from me
about like the truth of my life.You know, it was like always
some sort of external thing thatit was like, OK, I need
(51:49):
validation. It's like, yes, you can use me
for these things. But it wasn't until I guess I
like shared my story the first time I like guest spoke at A at
one of the meetings and then afterwards, like people asked me
for my number and we're like, you helped me.
And I was like, I'm like, and then for me, I'm like, all that
(52:15):
stuff I went through is worth it.
You know, it's out. It's totally, totally worth it.
Because if one if I can help oneperson, then then that is really
that's enough. Yeah, I love it.
What's the best piece of advice you got in early recovery or in
recovery in general? Think two things always stand
(52:38):
out for me. My, my, my sponsor said life's
none of my business. Other, you know, that was
something that I always really got caught up with was how can I
help other people or fix their problems when it's like, I'm not
a therapist, I'm not qualified, I don't have any.
(52:58):
I'm not God, but I would try to do whatever I could to get them
to act in the way that I wanted so they'd be happy, so they'd be
happy with me, so that they would like me.
But really I didn't have any idea how to help anyone.
So life's none of my business. Don't care.
Be helpful. And that has been really
(53:22):
important because you've been, you see that it's like a lot of
people don't stay sober, right? A lot of people go out and you
can, you got to be try to be helpful for them be like, I will
try to, you know, show up for you or bring you coffee or like,
do you want to come to a meeting?
But if they're not ready to comeback, then you got to let it go.
(53:45):
And that's like new because I would always like be too caring
and be too involved. And I would just give up
everything and go and, you know,be an addiction with someone you
know to try. So don't care, be helpful.
Life's none of my business. But the biggest one for me is
page 417. Acceptance is the answer to all
(54:06):
my problems today. And that radical acceptance of
everyone else's life is that's how they are.
And I need to not try to change them.
I need to figure out a way that I can be helpful or just be
there because I have to have that radical acceptance that
(54:31):
it's like I have no part in other people's business.
So whatever they say, whatever they do, if it goes against my,
how I think things should be, I need to be like, OK, either, you
know, stay out of it, don't picka fight or stay neutral or just
be like, I'm, I can understand how you feel that way.
(54:54):
Yeah, it's powerful. I think Alex Firmozi said it,
but it just reminded me of of when you were talking there.
He he always says when someone pisses him off or someone, you
know, does something that he doesn't agree with or he just
says, I say to myself now they're simply not living the
way I would prefer in a way I which when in a way which I
(55:14):
would prefer, right? They're not living in a way out
in which I would prefer, right? And I, it's so freeing to just
think like that, you know? And then when I'm, when somebody
doesn't like me, same thing. I'm not living in a way in which
they prefer, right? It's just like, it's such a
little simple mindset shift where it's like, yeah, it's not
up to me. I can't control them.
And if they're happy and they'renot hurting anyone, and either
(55:36):
way, it's not my business. To your point, right, Yeah,
Yeah, that and I'd say a better understanding of like, the word
empathy to me, empathy you've described when I was going in
was like, put yourself in someone else's shoes and it's
like, OK, I can do that. I hate them, you know, like, but
then 'cause I hate myself. Empathy now, like the way it was
(55:57):
explained to me is like that is every experience and every point
of that person's life from when they were a child, through their
growing up, through their relationships, through their
whatever happened trauma and things in their life.
Like empathy is putting yourselfin that person's life from start
(56:18):
till now. And when I can do that with
someone and look, and perhaps they say things that I don't
agree with. But when I actually show that
kind of empathy by starting fromwhen they were born and taking
into account all of the things that happened to them, I
actually feel way I can let the things go that bother me way
(56:43):
easier and be like, that is how they are.
They're not going to change. And I actually have like it
makes me feel like an asshole for, for judge for like being
judgmental of someone who is maybe sick as well.
But there's a goddamn good reason that they are the way
(57:03):
they are. And I don't, you know, it allows
me to really be more compassionate and empathetic
towards other people. And that has been really helpful
for for me to be able to go backto that radical acceptance and
be like, yeah, empathy's not just putting yourself in
someone's shoes today. It's putting yourself in to
their life and start tone now. I love that.
(57:24):
I've never heard that before. I love that.
Yeah. Robin Williams always used to
say, you know, everybody is battling something you know
nothing about, right? And it's true.
I don't. I don't know the full story.
So how can I assume anything? You know?
Love it. OK, man.
Fuck. Let's close with this.
There's a you. You had a lot of good things.
I I did. I learned a lot.
Did I do good? Do you like me?
(57:45):
Yeah. Great.
Subscribe check like follow me on Instagram smash the.
Ego smashed it. What do you hope people get out
of your story? I hope that they can.
(58:06):
I hope that it just might help help somebody, but I hope that
they can. I don't know.
Oh man, good question. What do I have?
I stole it from someone. I guess the main the main thing
(58:28):
that I would hope, and I'm probably didn't really even
express this, but like there's so much help, there is so much
help and people willing to help that you know, you can change,
you know, like I can. My thinking has done a complete
180 from less than a year ago till now.
(58:50):
A year ago, I was, you know, at home too scared to look up rehab
places, but I knew I needed to go and there was just no way.
And now it's like, I would recommend it to anyone who's
like this is not don't be ashamed, you know, don't be
ashamed if you have this diseasethat a lot of us have, it's it's
(59:11):
OK. And there's a lot of people that
can help, and I don't know you like by me getting help, what
you might be so ashamed of can probably allow you to actually
(59:33):
help someone else. Well said.
Thanks so much, Patty. I have no idea.
I appreciate you, buddy. Thanks for coming down man.
Thank you, that was awesome. Thanks for listening.
Please help us grow the channel and like, share and subscribe
for more content. The discussions and stories
shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational
purposes only. This content is not a substitute
(59:55):
for professional medical advice,addiction treatment, or therapy.
If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction,
please consult A licensed physician, addiction specialist,
or mental health professional.
And they're like, well, what do you, what do you think you
should do? And I'm like, well, I think I
should get out of bartending, get another job and go to daily
meetings in Burlington. And they're like, what do you
think about going to a long termlike rehab place?
And I'm like, I think I should go to those places.
I'm like, I think I need to go there.
And I, and I'm, I was like, it was relief, like being honest
(00:21):
with them and telling them and them being supportive and
wanting to help was the completeopposite of how I thought it
would go in my head all those years that I thought about, if I
tell them this, I won't have access to my nieces or nephews.
My family's going to abandon me.My mom's sister died of
alcoholism and people talk shit about her.
(00:42):
So they're going to talk shit about me and I'm going to be out
of the family. And it was the complete
opposite. Complete.
Complete opposite. Hi there, welcome back or
welcome to Recovering Out Loud Podcast, the show where we get
real about mental health and addiction.
I'm so glad you're here. If you or someone you love is
struggling with drugs or alcohol, please reach out for
(01:04):
help. Send me a message on all social
media platforms at Recovering Out Loud Pod or by e-mail at
recoveringoutloudpod@gmail.com. You are no longer alone.
(01:33):
Getting used to this. This is nice.
There we go. Yeah.
This is good intimate setting here.
Patrick, thanks so much for coming down, brother.
I appreciate you. We met on that beautiful
retreat, Language of the Heart, that Mary was on as well, and Bo
was coming on here later. What was that like for you that
that experience? Have you ever been on anything
like that? What?
What was that experience like for you?
(01:53):
Yeah. So it's it was different than I
thought it was going to be. When I first signed up for it, I
thought it was a all male retreat.
And then I found out that it wasCoed, which is totally fine.
And it was more fun than I thought, Like I really thought
it would be. Like it sounds, yeah.
(02:16):
Like, intensive. Almost.
Yeah. Like really deep dive, but it
was those things like there was that opportunity, but then the
social aspect. I've never been to any event in
recovery that is like fun. Like I haven't, I'm new to
recovery so it was my first timelike going and like doing
(02:36):
karaoke and just going to a poolparty.
So those things were different than I thought and a lot of fun.
Yeah, they made it really comfortable too.
I mean, there's so there's a lotof firsts in recovery, right.
And I'm, I'm sure you're familiar with this.
You're 10 months long now. Yeah, just over and Congrats.
Yeah, That's that's huge. Is this your longest you've ever
(02:57):
been sober? Oh yeah, yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, you were like a a 10
minute guy before, like me scraping together 10 minutes
here and there. Yeah, pretty much.
Was using every day for 25 years.
I had one stretch where I went like 4 weeks.
That was my longest time withoutusing anything.
And probably white knuckling it the whole way.
(03:18):
I I flew to Portugal to get awayfrom everything and went to the
smallest island to make sure that I didn't have any contacts
and didn't have anything becauseat that point I was like, yeah,
I don't want to use anymore. But as soon as I came back.
There it is. Four days later, right back into
it, Yeah. Addiction's a funny thing,
right? But yeah, it was really
(03:39):
comfortable. And so there's a lot of firsts
in recovery, first wedding sober, like first, you know,
bonfire really, even though there was no bonfire because
it's stupid fire restriction, I'm still, I still upset about
that, but it's OK. We sat around in a circle and I
mean, like there's a lot of times in my life where that was
filled with drinking and drugs. Was sitting in that circle
(04:00):
outside in the, you know, cottage country, whatever.
And I'll tell you, stimulants and fire pits like fire in
cottages, Stimulants in cottagesdon't mix very well at all.
Oh no. It's like the worst drug to pair
with. You know, people are smoking
(04:20):
weed and drinking and you're just fucking in your chair just
jittering. Oh my God, jittery.
Yeah, I've had some bad, well, memorable campfires for sure,
where, you know, it's just amazing that some, no one died.
We had like a grad trip in high school.
These girls stole a tractor tire.
(04:42):
That was what we used for our fire ring.
The fire got massive with a tractor tire being the outside
ring, and people are jumping over it.
We're throwing cans of things into the fire pit.
I'm assuming gasoline was involved.
Yeah, yeah. And yeah, I remember 1, like
something got thrown in the fire.
It exploded. I got hit in the ear and I
(05:04):
thought my ear was like gone. And my buddy used to flashlight.
He's like, it's beans. Someone threw a can of beans in
and it just smoked, smoked my ear.
And I thought I was on a lot of substances.
And, you know, yeah, just playing with fire, literally the
metaphor. Like, I played with fire for so
long, but at cottages, yeah, it was always just grab the cooler,
(05:24):
set up shop and a lot of times pass out, you know, at the fire.
Yeah, everyone stops and you know, we're keep, we keep going,
right? Oh, yeah.
That was the story of my life. So I want to get into a little
bit about your story and what brought you into recovery.
But why don't you tell us, tell us about like, what childhood
was like for you? All right, Yeah, I grew up in a
(05:45):
really good family. I'm the youngest of four kids
and being the youngest, I was very like insecure kind of from
the start. My older siblings are fantastic.
But like any kid growing up, youknow, you pick on the the
youngest 1, you know, so a lot of feelings of like, I'm not
(06:06):
going to be smart enough to everlearn how to write an essay.
I'm really young, so you know, I'm my, when I get to be like
30, my parents will be 70. Oh my God, they'll be dead.
Like, just a lot of black and white thinking and distorted
thinking where I I grew up. Yeah.
(06:26):
Really insecure and really not confident in myself.
So I learned kind of at an earlyage to wear masks.
Like I started to do, you know, impersonations of actors and try
to get a laugh out of people 'cause that's kind of the only
way that I felt accepted was like by not being myself kind
(06:47):
of. But I grew up in a good family.
I played sports, was involved inmusic like was in swimming.
Like basically how I could describe it is during the day I
was filled by doing activities and and things.
And then when it came to night time, as far as I can remember,
whenever it was time to go to bed, I'd be in my bed replaying
(07:08):
the day and overthinking about this person.
Oh, I shouldn't have said this because now they don't like me
or oh, tomorrow I've got to do this and I'm not going to be
smart enough to do it. So for me, like bedtime was
always. The worst interesting like ever
since you can remember just from.
Literally when I was like, I canremember being like from four
(07:29):
years old till, you know, adulthood, bedtime was when I
would be up for hours just worrying, just constant worry
and fear about what the next daywill bring.
What happened that day? Oh my God, they don't like me.
I shouldn't have said that, you know, and just like trying to
(07:51):
rewrite the script about, OK, how can I do this or what can I
do to fix this? So like, yeah, I, I could, I, I
would be awake for hours. And that was just.
Ruminate. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Was that the reason that you turned to drugs and alcohol?
Like to quiet that noise, would you say?
(08:12):
I'd say like I wanted. I always wanted validation, so I
wanted to like find my way to the popular crowd, right?
And in high school, like in grade 9, that was my way into
the popular crowd. My parents went away on a
three-week vacation, so my sister and I threw a three-week
party. And that was when the popular
(08:35):
kids came to hang out with me because I had a place for them
to come. And that's when I started doing
drugs and alcohol. And it was like a OK, I'm in
like I'm in with these guys now.So I want to keep this going.
And I find like with with weed, which was like my higher power
(08:58):
for 25 years like that was that always remained.
Other things came in and out, but weed was like, I can now
like go to bed. So like, you know, it would
ease, it would ease my way of anxiety and things like that.
That was kind of like my wake up, do that.
OK, I can go to do this now. It was kind of like I had to
(09:19):
smoke weed before doing anything.
And then at the end of the night, like smoke till you pass
that kind of thing. Like I still would be worried,
but you just consume so much that that was my answer.
Alcohol was like the social party thing to do.
But we became my dependent in high school.
Yeah. And so at what moment did you
(09:39):
realize that it was getting really bad, like when you first
realized that this was a problem?
Say probably like, OK, we'd go out like on a Saturday night or
(09:59):
whatever and the we'd go to a party or a house party or
whatever. And then you get home at like
whatever, I'd probably be home at like 1:00 in the morning at
that time or 12 and I'd get homeand I'd go on to like MSN
Messenger. Remember that like that was
before Instagram and everything there was MSN Messenger and my
(10:20):
one buddy was like a dealer and I'd always message him being
like, can I come over? And I needed to keep it going.
So that was like mid high school, but I didn't really have
any awareness that it was a serious problem.
I just was like, this is what I need.
I can't like be at home. I need to keep the party going.
(10:40):
It's probably not until till I like was introduced to cocaine
that that was kind of when I sawthat like, OK, my personality is
very addictive and this thing isreally getting me into trouble.
(11:02):
I kind of got by through high school and like was on sports
teams and did OK in school. So it didn't really hit me that
it was affecting me that much during the high school years.
It was kind of like when I was introduced to cocaine and how
that took over my life pretty quickly.
And you know, yeah, I can get into that, too.
(11:25):
Well, I mean, yeah, like what was your first experience?
Was it the same thing? Like people had it and you
wanted to fit in 'cause that wasme too.
It was my experience was the same thing.
It was at a party and I had stayed away from it for a while
because it scared the shit out of me.
Right. Like it was, that was like the
one thing I was never gonna do. I got into alcohol.
I got into weed. I didn't really like weed.
I would always green out. I was that guy.
I would always, you know, it, itnever really agreed with me.
(11:48):
But I remember at being at a party one time and a, a guy had
known that people, some people were doing it and it was just
like right in the open, like they, they had it on ACD case
and they're like, they basicallywere like, I don't want to say
they forced me, but it felt forced in that moment.
But I also wanted to do it and to fit in and because everyone
else was doing it and I didn't necessarily, I wasn't excited
(12:08):
about the outcome. You know what I mean?
It was more so, yeah, to like appease my friends and also this
is this is here now and peer pressure and whatever, right?
What was that like for you, thatfirst experience?
Yeah, I was in university and mylike, guys I hung out with all
the time. The I knew that they had started
to do it, but it was something growing up like yourself, like I
(12:31):
was like, I'll never do that. Like that was like, there's no
way I'm going to do that. That will kill me, you know.
Whereas weed and alcohol, I was like, OK, well, everyone seems
to be, well, not everyone, but alot of people seem to be doing
this. And I wasn't that scared of it,
but yeah, like it just came about.
We went to the bar and then afterwards they were like, want
(12:52):
to come with us? And I was in residence at Guelph
and they went down to like the basement of the res and like,
you want to go lift some weightswas the code word.
I want to go to the weight room.And they would, and I and I went
and I, I joined them because I honestly saw I'm like, well,
they didn't die and they can stay up later now.
(13:16):
And just, I was blind to the writ.
Like I was just like, yeah, I'm doing it.
And once I did it the first time, I was like, this is
amazing. You know, like it was like,
whoa. And so for that year at Guelph,
the one year I, I, I did it, andit was probably for about a year
(13:36):
and a half when I was like 19 to20.
And then IA good friend of mine got on my case about it.
I like basically flunked out of Guelph.
I could have, I never went to school, so I was just doing
partying, like full time party, you know, almost got kicked out
of rez, like could have gone back on probation.
(13:58):
But once my parents actually found out about my grades, like
we're getting you out of there. So I think I did it a couple of
times after that year. But by the next Christmas, a
good friend of mine was like, well, I'm worried about you.
This isn't like, why do you needto be doing this?
And I saw I'm like, yeah, I'm like, I really fucked up that
(14:20):
year. So I stopped doing any hard drug
from that point when I was like 21 and stayed away from from
cocaine until I was 33. I went 12 years without doing
hard drugs and just went back toweed and alcohol, which caused
me a lot of problems, which I can get into too.
But I had for whatever reason was able to stop doing the hard
(14:46):
stuff for for a while. Yeah, and then it ultimately
came back. But no, I think it's, I, I, I do
want to get into it because there's this thing, there's this
thing around weed that it gets classed with alcohol now where
it's like, I'm not gonna ruin mylife.
It's not that bad. It's, it's legal, right?
All these things. I had another guy on the podcast
here that it, it nearly burned his life to the ground, right?
(15:06):
Like he really struggled. He couldn't do anything, you
know what I mean? It took away all his motivation,
his drive, his personality to your point.
So I think it's important to like, what did the, what did
those years look like while you were doing that?
Like what was the progression like?
Yeah, so I left Guelph and then got into, went to Mohawk College
and like got involved in athletics again and things like
(15:30):
that. But every like, like I told you,
like I needed to smoke weed as soon as I woke up in between
every class. If I didn't have it, I couldn't
focus on anything. Like if there was no way I could
go without it. And if I was running low, then I
was going to do everything I could call every dealer I could.
(15:51):
This is before it was legalized,right?
Like so my, the obsession of my mind was purely focused on
having it and making sure I had enough and you know, stealing
money from my parents if I had to selling stuff, you know,
everything kind of revolved around it.
Then I started dealing it because I'm like, hey, if I
(16:13):
start to grab it, then I can sell to all my friends and I can
smoke for free. Well, you know, you end up just
not just just smoking it and having to pay for it yourself,
you know, but I got through, I don't know, weed.
I, I, I really was like Bob Marley, you know, Rasta man,
(16:34):
like peace and happiness. And, you know, I thought that
that would, would be OK for me. So the alcohol was when I got
into more problems with police and problems blacking out and
more, more things came with the alcohol.
The weed was just like the necessity had to have it.
(16:59):
If I didn't have it then, then Iwould be only one track mind
thinking about it. And if I didn't have it, I was a
miserable, angry, irritable person.
But it was like, you know, they say it's like a slow
progression. I found that weed like in my
head was the answer for a reallylong time and I didn't think
(17:20):
anything was wrong. I really didn't think anything
was wrong with it for till I pretty much till I came into
recovery and realized how it waslike.
My entire life revolves around substance.
Yeah, yeah. And So what was the moment like?
Can you walk us through like what ultimately took you down to
your last Yeah, drink or drug? Yeah, for sure.
(17:43):
The last like 6 years were basically like I always wanted
like a girl and then the last girl that I seriously dated
broke up with me. And at that point I basically
sold my soul to the devil is howI, what I would say like
anything that it was like, I'll never do that.
I was just like, I'm doing it because fuck, fuck everyone, you
(18:07):
know, like, and I got out of like I used to work in mental
health. I got out of that career.
I started bartending. I moved to Honduras and started
to do scuba diving, and that's when I picked up doing coke
again was when I went to Honduras.
And I was right before COVID, I was doing, you know, on the
small island, all backpackers. They're all like 18 to 24.
(18:29):
I'm 36, you know, being like sweet right back in it, you
know, and that's when it kind ofjust took over.
COVID shut the island down. I moved back home and from COVID
it was like, OK, now I can isolate and use drugs and pretty
much from COVID till last October, that was what I did.
(18:54):
I isolated and was doing coke and I bartend.
And then last year in August, I was like, sorry, I went to like
Portugal to try and get off of it, 'cause my life, I was in
debt and wasn't going to work and living at my parents' house
and lying to them, lying to everyone.
I'm like, I need to stop this because like literally like my
(19:17):
life is I have no life. So I went to Portugal, did 4
weeks where I was clean with no solution, no recovery plan.
Just like white knuckle it go somewhere that's beautiful to
distract. Yourself.
Geological cure. Geographical Cure.
And then I came back from there and within four days I was
grabbing. And then that last 14 months,
(19:39):
the progression of how much I was grabbing, knowing I didn't
want to be doing it. I'm like, I don't want to do it.
Wake up in the morning like I'm not doing it.
By 2:00 I got a bag and I've called off work and I'm in my
parents basement. But I have to lie to them to say
I am going to work so that I'm driving parking lot to parking
lot till I get paranoid, sellingmy clothes out of the back of my
(20:00):
car so that I have enough money to grab a bag, you know?
And then my dad had a stroke last September and he's in the
hospital and I'm like, I need tolike, be there.
But I'm too much of A coward to tell any of my family members
(20:21):
that I don't have a job. And I've got three older
siblings. So I'd go do the hospital stuff.
And I'd always go by myself so Icould use do some lines in the
bathroom while he's sitting there.
And I'm like, can't. I'm like have numbness in my
left arm. And I'm like, I wonder who's
going to go first, him or me, you know, And I'm lying saying
(20:44):
I'm going to work. So my siblings are driving him
from Pickering or Toronto to come see my dad in Burlington.
And then one night, my mom and my brother went to the hospital
to see my dad. I said I was working.
They went to my restaurant afterthey visited.
And the manager goes, oh, Pat, he, he hasn't worked here for a
couple months. And my brother messaged me.
(21:08):
And that was I made a parking lot by myself high out of my
mind. And I see the message and I'm
like, I give up. I'm exhausted.
I have nothing left. I, I can't go on like this.
How am I gonna, I can't lie my way out of this anymore.
And in my head I'm like, I can'tbe honest 'cause I can't let
(21:30):
them down because I need to be there for my dad while he's in
the hospital. This is like the only time in
our life where I really need to be there for someone.
I'm like, but I can't stop. And so I had to come clean and I
told my siblings and my mom I go.
I've been trying to, yeah, I'm, I'm addicted to substance.
(21:51):
I've been trying to get off of it by myself for a few years and
I really can't. And I really need help.
And they all supported me. The next day, my brother and two
sisters came down, took me to dinner, and my sister had been
on the phone lines with addiction centers all day.
And she's just like, what are you using?
(22:13):
How often are you using it? How much money are you in debt?
And I was like all answering allof these things and, and they're
like, well, what do you, what doyou think you should do?
And I'm like, well, I think I should get out of bartending,
get another job and go to daily meetings in Burlington.
And they're like, what do you think about going to a long term
(22:35):
like rehab place? And I'm like, I think I should
go to those places. I'm like, I think I need to go
there and I and I'm I was like, it was relief, like being honest
with them and telling them and them being supportive and
wanting to help was the completeopposite of how I thought it
would go in my head. All those years that I thought
about if I tell them this, I won't have access to my nieces
(22:57):
or nephews. My family's going to abandon me.
My mom's sister died of alcoholism and people talk shit
about her, so they're going to talk shit about me and I'm going
to be out of the family. And it was the complete
opposite, complete, complete opposite where they found
facilities for me to go to and they said we're willing to help
in any way that that you need. That's that's such an important
(23:21):
message, man. I think, I think a lot of people
need to hear that, that it's like that that's, that keeps
people sick for so long is how they're going to be perceived if
they come out and tell the truth, right?
I, there's such a stigma around it.
And one of the reasons I startedthis podcast was to kind of, you
know, I don't think we'll ever break the stigma or, or just,
you know, but it's like, yeah, well, however I think it's going
(23:42):
to go in my head, it never goes in any situation, right?
I, it's my mind lies to me, my addiction lies to me and tells
me it's going to be this way andit never is.
It's such an important message to to get that out there that
it's like there are people you might you just don't see it.
There are people that are willing to help you and do
whatever it takes and come to bat put, you know, go to bat for
you. But you won't know until you
fucking ask, right? You won't know until you admit
(24:04):
and get on it. Step one.
It's like I have a problem and Ican't control it.
My life is unmanageable. And we were what is it again?
We were we can't our lives, yeah, we we can't control it.
Our lives are unmanageable. And I need help, right?
I can't do this on my own. So, you know, I, I think that's,
that's a really big moment. So what was rehab like going
(24:26):
into rehab and and then coming out and what's life like today?
Yeah, so going into rehab, I remember being like, well, I had
at that point I was like extremely felt guilt that I'm
leaving my family while my dad'sin the hospital and.
And meanwhile, they're like. He's in the hospital, he's going
(24:48):
to be here for a few months. He's getting the care.
Like all we can do is go visit him during visiting hours.
And I, there's enough people that are going to visit him
where it's like this is the timeyou need to go.
Like this is when you need to. So I was very like upset with
myself. I'm really hard on myself for
being there. And I remember the first day I
(25:09):
walked in and people are all outside under the gazebo and
they're like, hi, hi. And this one guy just comes up
and gives me the biggest hug andhe goes.
Welcome home bro. Welcome to the family.
You're going to love yourself. And I looked at him and I was
like, no fucking way. And I went into my room and
stayed in my room 'cause I was like, no, I'm like, no way.
(25:31):
I'm like, I'm like this guy. I'm afraid of that guy and like,
I'm not going to love myself. You don't know what I've been
through, you know, like, so the first day I yeah, was kind of in
in my room. And I remember the first night,
the mattress, my back hurt and Iwas yelling at the nurses.
I'm like, I need a firmer mattress if I'm going to be
(25:53):
staying here for 45 days. I got to, you know, what do you,
can you get me a new mattress? And I'm just like out of my
mind, right? And, and then the next day I
really was like, OK, let's let'sgo in.
And every day was just like better and better.
(26:13):
When I, once I started to go to the classes and once I got a
primary counselor, I, I, it was for me like camp man, like I
loved it. Like, I loved all the people and
the counselors. And it taught me a lot about how
it is a disease. I had no idea.
(26:34):
I honestly didn't know it was classified as a disease and
that, you know, if a lot of people have it and that there is
a solution. And once I cried a lot.
Like, I cried a lot. Yeah.
Especially once there are peoplethat I like, got close with.
(26:55):
And when they were leaving, I would be the one like, you'd go
around and share and I'd be the one who's an emotional wreck.
For me, it was like an emotionalpurge of years because I
couldn't be emotional prior to we're going to rehab.
So yeah, it was a lot of crying for me.
But like, for the most part, good tears are being like.
(27:19):
Necessary. Yeah, like, I'm like, I wish
this person well, and they helped me a lot.
But, yeah, I learned it's a disease that, you know, holding
resentments, like is really drinking poison and expecting
the other person to die. So I let was able to like, see,
I guess my counselor showed me my part.
(27:40):
And that was like a revelation for me of being like, oh, my
God, Like, I am judgmental. I am critical of other people.
I am a people pleaser. I, you know, have carried these
little things that happened to me in my life for decades and
(28:01):
hung on to them and they've I'vebeen sick because I'm hanging on
to things that now when I look at like those things that I was
holding on to, I can be like, it's not mine to carry, you
know, like I don't, that's not, that's not on me, you know, like
I don't need to carry this anymore.
I'm, I'm worthy, you know, and Iremember there was a counselor
(28:23):
that kind of was like, do you love yourself on conditioning?
I go, I don't love any. I don't have anything that I
like about myself at all. And by the time that was like in
week 1 and then by the time thatI left after 45 days, I was
like, I'm starting to like myself, you know, like starting,
(28:43):
you know, working out, being nice to people, taking
accountability, finding a higherpower.
Like I was introduced to meditation there.
I had no concept of what a higher power was.
So, you know, I thought I was like God before, not actually,
but trying to play God was what I was trying to do, arrange
everyone. And you know, if people were
(29:07):
fighting or their relationships,I'd just be just pick everything
apart. And then I was just like,
radical acceptance of like, thisis how people are.
So there's a lot of sick people and you should probably pray for
them as opposed to change them. Just pray for them.
Yeah, yeah, there's a huge mindset shift, right?
Like that's what recovery does. Is it?
It shifts my perspective on it and my perception.
(29:27):
And hey, maybe like you said, maybe this isn't mine to carry.
Maybe I have a part in this. Maybe they can live their life
and be OK and I can be OK. Like what a concept, right?
I they don't have to live according to my script that.
Yeah, you said a lot of good stuff there.
Did you have any moments, you know, backtracking a bit where
you, you know, you came close to, I don't know, some really
(29:50):
risky situations where you like were like, well, that was close
and then you kind of got out of it or or was it like, what was
that like like post rehab no before like in your addiction
if. We oh close calls.
Yeah Oh yeah, definitely. Like honestly I've drank and
(30:11):
drove for two decades so puttingmyself at risk with that for
sure. I got one DUI where I don't
remember leaving the bar. Apparently a couple video
recorded me from when I got in my car 'cause I guess was
staggering and then I somehow ended up in my.
(30:33):
I had a townhouse at that time. I ended up parked, passed out
and the cop, I woke up to the cherries behind me and I was had
no idea of how I got there. So I had to obviously go to
court for that. Luckily, I didn't kill anyone
like I'm it. The fact that I didn't ever
(30:54):
injure somebody or myself badly is is God's doing.
Yeah, because I definitely was behind the wheel a lot.
That was the one that I had to tell my parents about.
Outside of that, smashed a curb once, backed into a pole another
(31:15):
time and then got another almostDUI where I was in the Warren
range. So a lot of the.
Breathalyzer. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So there was a lot and I kept all those a secret, right 'cause
(31:36):
I could be like, oh, someone hitme.
Oh, they, you know, the car in front of me put their brake
lights on. So I would do these things and
I, you know, I'm single and liveby myself or whatever.
So I was able to really like hide a lot of a lot of my
troubles and just like get away with them without taking any
(32:00):
responsibility for them. But yeah, those, probably the
drinking and driving are where Ireally put the most people and
myself at risk. The most ironic story would be
that I left work one day and when I was working in Toronto at
(32:24):
like 5:00 PM and I was I was sober and I just left work and I
go around the corner and a guy comes flying around me and I got
T boned by a drunk driver. All airbags go off full.
Like I luckily only got whiplashout of it, but my car was
totaled. And I remember calling my family
(32:47):
and I'd been in so many car accidents before they were at
the cottage. And I'm like, hey, I'm, I got
into Jackson and they're like, was it your fault?
Was the first thing they said. And when they said that, I got
so mad that they like, I got so mad at them.
And I held a huge resentment that they didn't ask if I was
(33:08):
like, OK, that they first were like, is it your fault?
And then, you know, they didn't leave the cottage to come see me
in the hospital. And I built this huge resentment
towards them, even though like if you play the tape back every
time it was my fault. Every time I've been in trouble,
you know? And the next day I got a rental
(33:28):
car and they're at the cottage. So I'm in town by myself and I
go to the bar at 11 AM and I getblackout blackout drunk with the
bartender just me and her and the day after I get T boned by a
drunk driver. I back the rental car up into a
pole and cause $5000 worth of damage.
(33:51):
Drive the car back, park it underground, pass it.
Next morning I wake up. That was the first time that I
had any recollection that I did that.
That's that's addiction, man, like right there.
I mean, that's alcoholism, that's addiction right there.
Despite adverse consequences, I'm still going, right?
No matter what. And yeah, I, I, I can relate to
that. Like, fuck them, I'm going to
(34:13):
show them, right? I'm going to go and get nice and
drunk and high and I'm going to show them when meanwhile you do.
My therapist always used to say this, like, the only person
you're saying fuck you to is yourself every time you do that,
right? And I would use that of
resentment too. It's like, I'm going to show
them. Like, fuck them, I'll do
whatever I want. This.
And it's all this ego thing, right?
Yeah, that's powerful, man. I, I truly believe that the
(34:34):
universe God's, you know, whatever higher power you, you
have, right for me, I just call it God, but it's like, you know,
there he's showing you, the universe is showing you these
signs, right? And it's like you to your point,
you get into rehab and then you,you just have so much emotion
because of all this stuff that has happened and occurred in
your life. And you finally, rehab was
(34:54):
really good for me too, because I was able to just have a
different perspective on all theshit that I did, a sober
perspective, a real perspective of like, damn, I was a tornado
man. And like my parents, you know,
they, they had so many sleeplessnights, right?
So, you know, when your parents answer the phone like that, my
first thought is like, yeah, no,like I completely get that,
(35:15):
right. You, you put you put us through
all this. Like, you know, that that would
be my first question too, right.But yeah, I think it's a it's a
very important like that is alcoholism, that is addiction.
It's like I don't have a choice anymore in the matter, right?
This is not a thing of willpower.
This is a disease. It's progressive and it's fatal,
you know, So I'm, I'm really glad that you got into to
(35:36):
recovery, man. We need more of more people.
We need more, you know, it's, there's a lot of people
suffering out there. So what?
What is faith, Spirituality. God?
What does that look like to you today?
Yeah, I, I, I say the word God, 'cause it's easy, right?
But for me, I always like enjoyed nature, like, so at
(36:00):
first when they're like introduced into the 12 stuff
like you need to find some sort of higher power and like you can
be at whatever you want it to be.
So I first was just kind of likethe, you know, Spirits of the
Universe was kind of what I thought about and great
outdoors, you know. Yeah, the outdoors was always
somewhere where like I would find peace and tranquility, like
(36:22):
if I'm in the middle of take a canoe out to the middle of the
lake and sit and just look at the reflections off the water
and trees or whatever. So that's how I first like, was
like, OK, And then I started to go to the meditations and during
meditation, I like created a good bond with the instructor at
(36:43):
the rehab who was leading it. And I really like took his
suggestions. And I remember the first few
times, you know, I was like, OK,well, my mind like was still
racing kind of like I couldn't really totally settle in, but
I'm like, it was a good thing todo.
Just take a break from everything and sit and breathe.
(37:06):
And then I remember it was like,probably like fourth time that I
did meditation, one of the clients was leaving the next
day. And the instructors like, if you
have any, you know, energy to pass on to this person, like try
to send some energy. And I remember getting that
like, Zing of energy up my spine, like goosebumps almost
(37:32):
like sometimes when I used to like use, you know, that feeling
where you like that first littleinkling of like, Oh my gosh,
there's something going on. And I felt that.
And I was like, whoa, I'm like, I've never felt that sober
before, you know? And that really was like my
first sign that I was connectingto something bigger than myself.
(37:53):
And it's like, I guess they callit like fission when you get
like goosebumps or energy through your body.
And after that point, I just embraced that.
And at first, it was only through meditation that I would
get those feelings. But then it was like when I hear
a guest speaker and they say something, it shoots up in my
spine when I think, you know, I'm around my family or
(38:17):
whatever, and I see like a beautiful moment.
I get these things when. Yeah.
And it started to become, it wasn't just a meditation
anymore. It was like when something
happens throughout the day, could be anything, whether it's
in nature, whether it's someone speaking, whether you know it's
someone's relapse story, whethernow sober, like it happens all
(38:37):
the time for me where that's howI feel.
It's like there's something going on that is way, way bigger
than me that I'll never know howto explain.
I don't want to even try to explain what my higher power is.
All I know is that like, I'm alive today because I feel the
grace of God and that, you know,I now have work to do that I
(39:02):
want to do, to do things for other people because I was so
self-centered and selfish, but he kept me alive and now I
don't. The stuff I felt shame and guilt
about is like, I want to tell itso that it helps someone else,
you know, So I've really feel like even when I was bringing
that up, I, I feel these vibes. I feel these vibes and I am
(39:26):
comfortable being like I'll never have the capacity or the
intelligence to be able to say what my higher power is.
All I know is it isn't me and it's out there and it's it's
keeping me sober. And I love that.
Yeah, you explained that really well.
I hadn't heard it explained likethat in a while.
This sort of like the opposite of addiction is connection, they
say. A lot of people say.
(39:47):
I think Johann Hari was the first one to say that on a Ted
talk. And I, I heard that in treatment
and it blew me away when I saw that Ted talk.
But it's so true, man. Like I'm so isolated for so long
in my disease and all I care about is pleasing, Anthony.
That's all I care about. self-centered, selfish, like you
said. And then I come into recovery
and I start to feel this connection with the story of
(40:08):
this connection with the universe, this connection with
the with nature. It's a beautiful thing, man, you
know? But I have to be open to it and
I have to do something about it or else it just kind of, I don't
even notice it sometimes, right?It it'll just pass.
And yeah, it's a beautiful thing.
What are what are some like daily essentials must do's in
(40:29):
recovery for you today to stay sober?
Yeah, so every morning when I wake up, a lot of the time I
when my eyes first open, I'm like, why am why am I awake?
Why didn't I sleep longer? I don't want to do anything.
So it's immediately. The Step 3 for me is like.
(40:50):
God. I'm Patty, I'm powerless to
drugs, alcohol, women, money, everything basically, and I am
basically and I am life. I'm powerless to life.
So please, please help me. Show me the next right step.
Show me how to be of service to you and to others and please
help me stay sober today. Thank you.
That is like how I have to startevery morning by turning my will
(41:13):
and my life over every day and then I hop on like a a
meditation morning meditation meeting and that gets my day
regardless of how I wake up in the morning.
Cause a lot of times it is that not pleased.
It switches me and by 9:00 AM everyday I'm like, OK, now I can
(41:33):
set forth and go forward. I need to like every day is be a
good human being. So, you know, for me, I find
it's like, you know, saying hi to people on the elevator or
holding the door open or, you know, just returning a shopping
cart or like just like small little acts of kindness for me
(41:55):
is something that I want to do at all times.
I want to talk to my mom every day as well.
Like we have like a group threadthrough my family that we text
on. But I like want to talk to my
mom because it probably caused her the most harm out of
everyone and our relationships better.
I usually am at a meeting every night or I'm doing like a
(42:23):
sponsee. I have a sponsee now, so I'm
taking them through the book andthen I now like that.
I'm 10 months and I started playing like a sport.
So at night I got to like eitherbe on a team at a team meeting
or being somebody's teammate, you know?
(42:45):
Literally the opposite of isolation.
Yeah, yeah, I gotta I gotta be connected some way shape or
form. Yeah, the essentials are, are
are making recovery 1st is my essential.
You know, it's given me a life now that I have, but that is
like pretty much my focus all day is like how can I live
(43:07):
within these 12 steps and how can I practice these 12 steps?
And for me now the 12th step is like my most important one is
like I want to help. So I never thought that my story
would be helpful to anyone. I figured it would have a tragic
ending. That was my distorted thinking
(43:28):
before, and now I feel like, youknow, been around enough to be
like, yeah, that my, my story could actually help someone.
Yeah, I love it, man. What does service do for you in
terms of the one-on-one? Because honestly, bro, by far
that's still my favorite part ofrecovery is taking another guy
through the steps, through the book.
(43:50):
What does it do for you? Gets me out of my head because
during like rehab, your program is 24/7 basically.
And then I went to sober living for three months after rehab
where you're programmed a lot there as well.
Yeah. And now I live on my own in an
apartment, so. And I've had one job.
(44:11):
I got fired from the other job. I had to resign because it
wasn't really safe anymore. So I've been in a flux of like,
I have time, so I need to be of service 'cause like I can only
do a meeting, go work out, you know, go to the pool for an
hour, like. 3 hours a day. For me, it's like it gets me out
(44:31):
of my head, 'cause my thinking still is insane.
If I'm sitting there by myself, I can spin, I can be like, oh,
what if this happens? What if this happens?
You know, Oh my God, I made a mistake here.
I should sit in self pity and, you know, eat junk food the rest
of the day and not talk to anyone.
So for me gives me purpose. It's like I need service so that
(44:53):
I get out of my head and that I can go see other people and
build some self worth back into my life and realize that I'm not
alone. So when we were in sober living,
they like like be of service, beof service, be of service.
We're like, I have two months. I'm like, you can't be a service
at a Home group till you're a year, right?
(45:15):
Like, so we just thought of waysthat we could go and do stuff
and we kind of like took it uponourselves to just like go down
and do stuff for people who are living on the streets.
And for me, I, I love it, man. Like it's, it's my favorite part
of, of the program is volunteering or, or being going
(45:36):
to my Home group and setting up the chairs.
And you know, like seeing other people who have years of
addiction and being able to talkto them like they're being of
service is like me being of service people are being service
of to me. So it's it's like a total cycle
of like it's not just me going to help.
(45:56):
I'm actually being helped for sure.
I always say it's like the pyramid scheme without the
scheme, right? Like the recovery, you know,
meetings, all that stuff. It's like this beautiful pyramid
scheme that there's no catch, right?
It's like people, they want to do things to help you, but also
it helps them. And it's yeah, it's this
beautiful sort of give and take to like cycle that like you
(46:17):
said. I love that man.
What's something that you're, you know, you've been recently
working on personally, like something that you're you're
trying to work on? Letting go of outcomes same yes,
yeah, you know, like the whole like putting your entire life
(46:40):
into into God's will for me, like my defects of character
will come up where it's like fear of being alone, financial
insecurity. So, you know, not obsessing over
what job is going to make me themoney or what, what job do I
need to get. And really just being like, you
(47:01):
know what, let go of all that stuff.
Just stick in the middle of the 12 step program and you will be
rewarded. So like, really what I've been
working on through this, like transition of job is doing more
within the 12 steps because the promises come true if I actually
(47:21):
do what I'm supposed to do, which is, you know, be right in
the middle of that. And that's why I like, I went on
the retreat. That's why, you know, I don't
say no when I'm asked to do something.
And yeah, it just gives me the purpose.
But yeah, really letting go of outcomes completely is what I'm
(47:44):
trying to work on because I don't know how to do a lot of
things without that payoff, right?
Like without knowing there's a payoff.
Like for instance, if I were to like back in the day, like I'm
not dating anyone, but in the back in the day, it's like,
(48:05):
well, I'm only going to go out with her up to this, you know,
like if I know that we're going to be a thing or I'm going to
get something out of it. And now it's like just speaking
to girls as friends is a new thing for me.
I don't know how it's like just talking to people without any
expectation or any outcome. And same with like going and
(48:27):
trying something new and having no idea how to do it or, or what
it is. Like this.
I've never done a podcast like we'll just go and talk, like
just go. And so just showing up and, and
really trying to be a helpful and, and realizing that
everything that is supposed to happen will happen.
If you live within, you know, the 12 steps in being a good
(48:50):
human being, then God will take care of you.
So letting go of all that has been what I'm working on.
I agree man, I'm struggling withthat too.
But it's also like, you know, the 12 steps and the 12
principles behind them too is soimportant, right?
Because in my daily life, if I'mpracticing honesty, hope, faith,
(49:11):
you know, brotherly love, service, humility, like all
these things, if I'm just tryingmy best, I'm not going to be
perfect. Progress, not perfection.
We are not Saints, right? If I constantly practice that
things are going to work out, you know, they might not work
out on my time. They might not work out the way
I wanted them to work out. But you know, invariably, every
(49:32):
single time I'm going to find out, just like the book says,
that what I wanted, what I needed was what I wanted the
whole time, right? So what I actually needed is
what I actually is what I reallywanted the whole time, right?
I think I want this. I think I want 10,000 followers
on Instagram. I think I want my podcast to
blow up and make money. But at the end of the day, it's
(49:54):
like, no, dude, you get to fucking sit down for two hours
out of the day with a really cool person in recovery every
single time. Talk recovery, talk hope, talk,
talk faith and maybe help one person, you know what I mean?
What a beautiful thing in and ofitself.
Shut up. You know, just just be grateful,
right? Like just just be grateful that
(50:16):
you get to do that. And you learned how to do all
this stuff. And like things have been
happening where it's like, yeah,you know, I, I get like messages
from people that I don't even know sometimes.
And I'm like, holy shit. Like I didn't think that real,
that podcast, that thing, I didn't think that was helping
it. Like, I thought that was shit.
I didn't think that helped anybody.
I didn't think there was no any message of hope, you know, of,
(50:38):
of recovery or, or hope or faithin that.
And then it's like, you know, somebody messages me and like,
man, I never realized that I didthis or that or thank you.
And I'm just like, Oh yeah, you did your job right.
Like you, you did your service for today, you know.
Yeah, yeah. It was always like, you know, I
(51:02):
had it, I had it and now I lost it.
Sorry, live. People, that was a good thing.
We're not alive. But it was always like, for me,
it couldn't be about me. It was like, OK, well, you can
come to me and I'll. You can buy drugs from me or,
you know, I'll be able to serve you at the bar or what can.
(51:26):
Like, I always thought of myselfhaving to have something for
someone to like, get value out of me.
Like I needed to have something else other than my own self.
It was like, there's no way thatanyone wants to hear from me
about like the truth of my life.You know, it was like always
some sort of external thing thatit was like, OK, I need
(51:49):
validation. It's like, yes, you can use me
for these things. But it wasn't until I guess I
like shared my story the first time I like guest spoke at A at
one of the meetings and then afterwards, like people asked me
for my number and we're like, you helped me.
And I was like, I'm like, and then for me, I'm like, all that
(52:15):
stuff I went through is worth it.
You know, it's out. It's totally, totally worth it.
Because if one if I can help oneperson, then then that is really
that's enough. Yeah, I love it.
What's the best piece of advice you got in early recovery or in
recovery in general? Think two things always stand
(52:38):
out for me. My, my, my sponsor said life's
none of my business. Other, you know, that was
something that I always really got caught up with was how can I
help other people or fix their problems when it's like, I'm not
a therapist, I'm not qualified, I don't have any.
(52:58):
I'm not God, but I would try to do whatever I could to get them
to act in the way that I wanted so they'd be happy, so they'd be
happy with me, so that they would like me.
But really I didn't have any idea how to help anyone.
So life's none of my business. Don't care.
Be helpful. And that has been really
(53:22):
important because you've been, you see that it's like a lot of
people don't stay sober, right? A lot of people go out and you
can, you got to be try to be helpful for them be like, I will
try to, you know, show up for you or bring you coffee or like,
do you want to come to a meeting?
But if they're not ready to comeback, then you got to let it go.
(53:45):
And that's like new because I would always like be too caring
and be too involved. And I would just give up
everything and go and, you know,be an addiction with someone you
know to try. So don't care, be helpful.
Life's none of my business. But the biggest one for me is
page 417. Acceptance is the answer to all
(54:06):
my problems today. And that radical acceptance of
everyone else's life is that's how they are.
And I need to not try to change them.
I need to figure out a way that I can be helpful or just be
there because I have to have that radical acceptance that
(54:31):
it's like I have no part in other people's business.
So whatever they say, whatever they do, if it goes against my,
how I think things should be, I need to be like, OK, either, you
know, stay out of it, don't picka fight or stay neutral or just
be like, I'm, I can understand how you feel that way.
(54:54):
Yeah, it's powerful. I think Alex Firmozi said it,
but it just reminded me of of when you were talking there.
He he always says when someone pisses him off or someone, you
know, does something that he doesn't agree with or he just
says, I say to myself now they're simply not living the
way I would prefer in a way I which when in a way which I
(55:14):
would prefer, right? They're not living in a way out
in which I would prefer, right? And I, it's so freeing to just
think like that, you know? And then when I'm, when somebody
doesn't like me, same thing. I'm not living in a way in which
they prefer, right? It's just like, it's such a
little simple mindset shift where it's like, yeah, it's not
up to me. I can't control them.
And if they're happy and they'renot hurting anyone, and either
(55:36):
way, it's not my business. To your point, right, Yeah,
Yeah, that and I'd say a better understanding of like, the word
empathy to me, empathy you've described when I was going in
was like, put yourself in someone else's shoes and it's
like, OK, I can do that. I hate them, you know, like, but
then 'cause I hate myself. Empathy now, like the way it was
(55:57):
explained to me is like that is every experience and every point
of that person's life from when they were a child, through their
growing up, through their relationships, through their
whatever happened trauma and things in their life.
Like empathy is putting yourselfin that person's life from start
(56:18):
till now. And when I can do that with
someone and look, and perhaps they say things that I don't
agree with. But when I actually show that
kind of empathy by starting fromwhen they were born and taking
into account all of the things that happened to them, I
actually feel way I can let the things go that bother me way
(56:43):
easier and be like, that is how they are.
They're not going to change. And I actually have like it
makes me feel like an asshole for, for judge for like being
judgmental of someone who is maybe sick as well.
But there's a goddamn good reason that they are the way
(57:03):
they are. And I don't, you know, it allows
me to really be more compassionate and empathetic
towards other people. And that has been really helpful
for for me to be able to go backto that radical acceptance and
be like, yeah, empathy's not just putting yourself in
someone's shoes today. It's putting yourself in to
their life and start tone now. I love that.
(57:24):
I've never heard that before. I love that.
Yeah. Robin Williams always used to
say, you know, everybody is battling something you know
nothing about, right? And it's true.
I don't. I don't know the full story.
So how can I assume anything? You know?
Love it. OK, man.
Fuck. Let's close with this.
There's a you. You had a lot of good things.
I I did. I learned a lot.
Did I do good? Do you like me?
(57:45):
Yeah. Great.
Subscribe check like follow me on Instagram smash the.
Ego smashed it. What do you hope people get out
of your story? I hope that they can.
(58:06):
I hope that it just might help help somebody, but I hope that
they can. I don't know.
Oh man, good question. What do I have?
I stole it from someone. I guess the main the main thing
(58:28):
that I would hope, and I'm probably didn't really even
express this, but like there's so much help, there is so much
help and people willing to help that you know, you can change,
you know, like I can. My thinking has done a complete
180 from less than a year ago till now.
(58:50):
A year ago, I was, you know, at home too scared to look up rehab
places, but I knew I needed to go and there was just no way.
And now it's like, I would recommend it to anyone who's
like this is not don't be ashamed, you know, don't be
ashamed if you have this diseasethat a lot of us have, it's it's
(59:11):
OK. And there's a lot of people that
can help, and I don't know you like by me getting help, what
you might be so ashamed of can probably allow you to actually
(59:33):
help someone else. Well said.
Thanks so much, Patty. I have no idea.
I appreciate you, buddy. Thanks for coming down man.
Thank you, that was awesome. Thanks for listening.
Please help us grow the channel and like, share and subscribe
for more content. The discussions and stories
shared on this podcast are for informational and motivational
purposes only. This content is not a substitute
(59:55):
for professional medical advice,addiction treatment, or therapy.
If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction,
please consult A licensed physician, addiction specialist,
or mental health professional.
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