April 6, 2024 • 55 mins
I went out to my supervision community and asked new coaches: What are you learning? I expected us to talk about business development, and this wonderful group dived straight into what they are learning about the art of coaching - the technical stuff and the human stuff and a tiny peek at business development.
We talked about
- Action Learning Set Facilitator Training
- Pre-Recorded Masterclasses
- And podcasts with Melissa Hague, Sarah Short and Keeley Vuong White
Thank you
They will be back at The Coaching Inn before the end of the year!
Keywords
coaching, new coaches, training, active listening, holding space, silence, patience, courage, growth, coaching, self-care, rest, instincts, business, continuous learning, props, creativity, transformative
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
You're at the Coaching Inn, 3D Coaching'svirtual pub where we enjoy conversations
with people who engage in the world ofcoaching.
Hello, and welcome to this week's editionof The Coaching In.
I'm Claire Pedrick, and today we've got anopen table with new coaches.
(00:22):
I've just gone through the stats of thepodcast and noticed that our last podcast
with new coaches is our best listened toepisode ever.
And it's the one that people keep goingback to.
So I hope you enjoy this one as much aspeople have enjoyed the last one.
And I'll pop the last one in the shownotes.
(00:43):
So today I have with me at the CoachingInn round the table, Emily Raffett, Henny
Vandenberg, Beb Ruoco, Maria Fernandez andChristine Brice.
Welcome everybody to the Coaching Inn.
Hello.
Hello, thank you.
So let's hear a nugget about your coachingjourney.
(01:06):
So, and a nugget about what makes youhuman.
So who are you?
Where are you in the world?
And where did you train?
Would be great.
Emily?
Yeah, happy to start.
So I'm Emily Rappert.
I'm doing a career pivot at the moment.
So I was 30 years in corporate.
(01:28):
I worked in a consultancy firm in aprivate bank here in Switzerland.
And I got to the age of 50 and I thought,this is not what I want to do anymore.
So I pivoted.
to be much more people focused.
So coaching is part of that.
And so I trained last year in Switzerland,which I really, really enjoyed.
(01:48):
And I got my certificate at the end oflast year.
And there was a final question.
And I've forgotten what the final questionwas that you requested.
Can't remember.
That could be it.
That's me in a nutshell.
Great.
So I'm absolutely delighted to be here.
That's great to have you.
Penny.
(02:10):
Hello.
Good morning.
I'm here in Canada and much like Emily, Itoo did a pivot.
I was serving in the Canadian Armed Forcesup until October of 2022.
And I have to laugh because it was muchlike you've explained Claire in coaching
(02:33):
conversations how in the last few minutesthese big insights can happen.
So it was in my last year of serving inthe military where I had an opportunity to
be doing some conflict management coachingwith D &D within my organization that I
had the insight.
It's like, yes, this is where I want tocontinue being is coaching.
(02:57):
And so after I retired, I went back touniversity through the University of
California Davis and got my life coachingthere.
So I'm just in that building block frame,time frame, and looking to launch just in
(03:18):
time for International Women's Day.
So I guess for me, the human behind thecouch, it's that humility and curiosity
that I kind of like to lead with.
Welcome, Penny.
And it's always amazing to have peoplecome to the Coaching Inn in the middle of
(03:41):
their night.
So kudos.
Thank you.
We'll keep pouring the coffee.
Welcome.
Hi, Claire.
Good morning.
I'm absolutely thrilled to be here.
So thank you for having me on the podcast.
So about me, so I'm still in corporateworld.
(04:02):
I'm still a marketeer working withcorporate businesses.
I'm very passionate about consumerinsights, so the behavior of people.
And what got me into coaching wasmentoring my niece for her university
exams.
So that was the beginning of the journey,which then took me to completing the PCC
(04:23):
at Henley last year, in November 23.
And a whole new world of passion forcoaching has emerged.
I'm currently on the MSc program.
and just loving the whole journey, justlearning and loving every experience to go
with it.
Wow, thank you.
The human behind the coach, I really lovepeople.
(04:48):
I'm just very curious.
Why do we do the things we do?
That fascinates me.
Amazing.
And you've just got to 10 ,000 followerson LinkedIn.
I have, which is completely madness.
We will join you in a little celebrationthere.
(05:09):
thank you.
Yeah.
So Maria, welcome.
Hi, thanks, Claire.
Hi, everybody.
I am Maria.
I like to say that I'm a coach and I'm amaker.
I support early and mid -career people andmaybe we'll get into that later on as to
(05:29):
why.
I've been coaching with a big C sinceAugust last year and I also went to
Henley.
I feel like I've had a coaching approachwhile I was working as a leader slash
manager in the past, sometimes annoying mycolleagues by asking them what they would
do rather than what I think they shoulddo.
(05:51):
and in terms of the human behind thecoach, I think I'm really interested in
holding space and allowing people to cometo their own conclusions about what
success is for them.
Cool, and you can't just say I'm a makerand then not say anything about it.
Yeah, so I think I always have...
(06:16):
loads of hobbies and I can't seem to shakethem.
But I knit, I crochet, but my big makinglove is pottery so I'm a potter as well.
Amazing.
A lot of mindfulness in pottery.
Wow.
I'm hoping that next time we do a newcoaches podcast in about two years time
(06:37):
that I'm going to be able to say I'm abook binder.
But I don't think that having bound onebook that's got 16 pages quite makes me
one of those yet.
I'm a little bit hooked.
Yeah, you've got to start somewhere.
Exactly.
Kristin, hello.
Hello.
I'm truly in awe of the group.
(06:59):
So I'm Kristin.
My reason for starting coaching was afellow priest.
on a leadership program told me I couldreally benefit.
So after a car journey where Idemonstrated a poor ability to listen.
(07:24):
So I have my human behind my coaches.
I am a parish priest and prior to that wasin corporate world in HR in the investment
banking industry, live in London, but had,but
but I'm American and started training with3D in, I guess it was March of last year.
(07:48):
And I'm now on the training journey towardlevel one.
And part of my role in the current parishI'm licensed to in center of London is
coaching other priests toward where theymight end up trying to figure out whether
that works.
you know, in terms of whether it'sactually able to be boundary, but I am
(08:11):
loving it and I'm really enjoying thecontinued training.
So I have found it a very liberating wayof being and being with people because I
think one of my real strengths andweaknesses,
(08:34):
is my can -do attitude.
And in fact, I have a, speaking of peoplemaking things, my dear friend made this
for me.
Let it go, you don't have to fix it.
So I keep that on my windowsill.
That's me.
So I've got two questions that I'd reallylove us to dig into today.
(08:59):
And we can go with either or both at thesame time or whatever we wish.
So one of them is, what are you learning?
And the other one is, what do you know nowthat you wished you'd known a few weeks or
months ago?
might take a moment to think about.
(09:21):
What are you learning and or what do youknow now that you wish you'd known months
ago?
Kristin.
I am learning to notice.
And I'm trying, it's so hard to learn tonotice that I'm actually keeping a little
(09:43):
list of when I've actually done it.
When I've really used the word I'mnoticing and I'm realizing how powerful it
is, how seen people feel.
So it's and how much less.
(10:07):
it is for me and my spirit because I thinkmy I used to leave my role exhausted
giving out so much and people would lovebeing with me and yet I would find it at
(10:29):
the expense of my own space and energy andI'm learning a lot around how
The underlying assumption that people arerobust enough to deal with their own stuff
until they're not.
It's incredibly liberating and I cannotice and be less control.
(10:53):
Control?
Well, I hate to use the word controllingbecause that's so negative, but I do think
I tried to hold on to control.
So the letting it go, you don't have tofix it kind of thing.
Anyway, that's me.
Thank you for your honesty.
And I love that because that's a...
That's a lovely piece of technicallearning, isn't it?
And it's for me, it's the journey of alifetime for every coach to say what we
(11:15):
see without judgment.
So to notice and to be able to offer that.
And most of us, and I would say, in mypersonal life, I am much better at saying
what I see with judgment.
So.
Don't think I can carry this all the timeeverywhere.
(11:36):
Because actually saying what you seewithout judgment is really hard work.
It's light and it's deep and it's hardbecause you've got to go actually what is
it that I am seeing in this moment?
So that's a great technical thing.
So what are other people learning?
It could be technical, it could be aboutthe business, whatever you wish.
Who else has got something to share?
(11:58):
Maria?
Hi.
So,
Recently, I'm doing a bit more study inhow our brains work when it comes to
behavioral change.
And one thing that's kind of related towhat Kristen just said, really shook me
about how when things are not going sogreat, our tendency is to do and to do
(12:24):
lots to kind of fix it.
Like you said, grab control and the like.
But that's completely natural because it'sthat fight or flight type instinct.
But when you can kind of drive it to moreof the restful, love, people -centered
stuff, it can really, really help.
(12:47):
And it's science as well, so that'sbrilliant.
It's actually what's happening in yourbrain.
And I think throughout my life, whenthings have got really tough, I've wanted
to fight.
And I can see that in some of the peoplewho I work with.
But sometimes taking a beat and restingand figuring out, you know, what's the
(13:08):
most loving or kind thing I can do.
Even in the work environment, what's thekindest thing that I can do can be so much
more rewarding.
And I've actually seen it from people whoI've worked with who just need that space
as well to think and to think of somethingmore compassionate.
(13:29):
It absolutely blew my mind that it wasbased in science as well, which is a
terrible thing to say for a formerscientist, but there we go.
I love what you said there about what'sthe kindest thing that I can do.
Because the way you said that, Maria,didn't feel at all in the realm of
rescuing.
It felt very much in the realm of enablingpeople to get their own power.
(13:54):
That's a great question.
What's the kindest thing I can do here?
That might become a little video in thesupervision community.
I'll credit you.
Yeah, just hearing Maria, we're on thesame course.
So it's interesting hearing Maria'sinsights.
(14:16):
But what's been coming up for me is reallyunderstanding that we are all wired in a
different way and how this then takesitself into the coaching scenario or even
personal into
personal relationships.
So what I'm learning currently is just tohold space with the person where they are
(14:36):
in the moment, where they are now, and nothaving judgment.
So that's a huge step because in my workas a marketeer, we often have to be right.
We have to make the right judgment calls.
So getting comfortable with not having theanswers, with not knowing where we're
going, with just being there and acceptingsomebody for the way they are wired is a
(14:57):
huge challenge.
but it's incredibly liberating as well.
Wow, what a great insight, moving frombeing right to being present.
I love that, Feb.
Thank you.
Emily?
Yeah, so I explained at the beginning thatI was a consultant, so always having to
provide solutions, and that's what I waspaid for.
(15:19):
And now I'm doing the exact opposite.
So that was a real challenge.
And certainly through my training, I thinkthe biggest learning skill for me was
listening.
and really listening and listening andlistening.
And we had some very good exercises wherewe were taught how to actively listen.
(15:40):
And that was a real challenge.
And it's exhausting, really exhausting todo that effectively.
And I was always at the beginning, and I'msure I'm still doing it now, is thinking
about the next question.
What's the next question?
What's the next question?
Rather than actually actively listening.
And the coach is telling you,
(16:01):
everything that you need and you're ontheir journey with them and being with
them and holding space as the others weresharing.
It's such a skill to do that and it'ssomething that I'm learning day in, day
out.
To have that space with somebody, learningabout silences and the power of the
(16:22):
silence and feeling uncomfortable in thesilence, feeling uncomfortable with tears
as well.
and knowing when to interject.
Do I allow them?
Because I think that moment is so powerfulfor the coaching.
But when do you step in?
When do you interject?
When do you hand over the tissues?
(16:43):
Do you just allow them just to experiencethat?
Because it's something that they'reexperiencing so powerfully.
But all of this is very, very different tothe life that I came from, even though I
was absolutely passionate about people andthe people agendas where I was.
So learning that and continuing for me tobe on that journey, I'm just enjoying this
(17:06):
and it gets easier.
Every session that you have, it getseasier and easier, but I'm still very much
a novice in that space, I think.
And sometimes we all get it wrong.
I get it wrong sometimes.
Sometimes we just get the timing wrong.
But what you've described there is thatbeautiful journey from learning to listen
to learning about timing.
(17:29):
Yeah, absolutely.
And how long dare you keep that silence?
Yeah.
Yeah, because I know when I've been in theother seat, when I've been the coach, that
silence is beautiful.
It's a beautiful space.
And I hadn't appreciated it, actually, atthe time.
I didn't want the coach to do any checks.
(17:49):
I wanted to feel the beauty of that spacebecause I was really creating something
within myself.
Exactly.
And actually, often the person who'sholding the silence doesn't know they were
silent.
Yeah.
Because they might have been being silentin the silence.
But they might actually have been reallyquite busy in the silence and we were just
(18:12):
not in the way.
Yeah, yeah, that's true.
Yeah, no, you're right.
They're very, very busy.
Their mind is, yeah, I mean, exactly.
Exactly.
That brain is ticking over.
You know, that's what I absolutely loveabout working on Zoom, because you can
watch somebody in the silence and you canstare them out.
(18:37):
I hope that is received in the way Iintended to deliver it.
But as the person goes silent, you can fixon them, but they don't feel fixed on
because of the slight dissonance in wherethe camera is and where you're looking.
And it means that coaching on Zoom isabsolutely, without doubt, the best place
(19:01):
to learn about silence.
And I would say for me, it's do not speakunless they look at you.
which of course they're not quite doingbecause of the dissonance in the camera.
So there's something for me about reallylearning when they're looking at you so
(19:24):
that you can see when they're not lookingat you, so that when they're not looking
at you in the silence, you can see whenthey come back.
And that will make your silences superlong, Emily.
I'm sensing that.
While we're talking about Zoom,unconscious Penny, you haven't mentioned,
but it's related to this that I wish I'dknown.
(19:46):
Can I make one quick guess?
Sure.
I learned that therefore my background andmy position really matters because in my
last practice session, I held the silencefor a really long time.
And my thinker slash coachee said I lookedlike I was, cause I was sitting like this
(20:08):
really engaged, but I look, I don't knowhow I looked to you.
I'm not, I don't have myself view on,which is the other thing I learned is
maybe sometimes it's good to see what youlook like, right?
That's too close.
I look really in base, you know, whereas,you know, and maybe off center, I don't
know.
So that's one thing I just wanted to throwin when I wish I,
(20:30):
learned and thought about how does my zoomframe look and is this too busy?
And anyway, I don't know what others thinkabout that, but Penny, I'm conscious
humans.
Yeah.
And we'll come to you Penny in a sec.
But there is something about being faraway from the screen, being close to the
screen.
How big are we?
When do we lean in?
When do we lean out?
How far do we lean in?
(20:51):
Because if you're face to face withsomebody and you lean in a few centimeters
or inches, it's
it only feels like a few centimetres orinches.
But if you're on Zoom and you're only thisfar away from, you know, you're only 60
centimetres, a couple of feet away fromthe camera and you're leaning, you
suddenly become absolutely enormous.
(21:13):
Just when they need a bit more space.
So making space between us is a reallyimportant thing.
Yeah, just adding to Emily's point, whenyou were describing the silence, Emily,
and how delicious it was, it just made methink how it beautifully slows everything
down.
So the silence feels really, really longsometimes.
(21:37):
But that's a beautiful thing because it'sallowing us to detach from the everyday
busyness and actually do some thinking.
So I just, you know, what was coming upfor me was how lovely that slowing down is
accompanied with the silence.
And of course, the really difficult thingfor us to learn is to completely be aware
(21:58):
that when they come out of the silence,they're going to be in a completely
different place.
So any work that we do in the silence inservice of them is a complete waste of
time.
So we have to learn how we hold thatsilence with them.
Because often it can be used by the coachgoing, right, let me just work out what's
(22:19):
going on here.
What do I need to do next?
Penny, welcome.
So I guess what I'm learning is probablyto do personal and also business.
And that's patience.
(22:41):
so I don't know if anybody has done anykind of racing.
I used to do triathlons and, and someother, you know, shorter races.
And I don't know if you've experiencedthis, if you've raced yourself, but at the
beginning, the starting line, when thatgun goes off, there's a, there's a lot of
(23:03):
energy at the start.
And I have found myself.
kind of going at other people's pace andbecause that energy is pulling you along.
So it's having that patience, you know,much like your journey, doing your own
journey, because if you're trying to moveat other people's pace, there's a chance
(23:29):
of being burning out.
Your nutrition isn't going to be what it'ssupposed to be.
So just keeping at my own pace.
what I can handle, what works for me hasbeen something that I've really learned a
lot in this process.
(23:49):
As well as when I was at UCD, one of ourinstructors, Laurie Kozart, was talking
about the J -curve.
And this has had to do with change.
And in that time of transition,
your performance will be disrupted andthere's going to be a reduction and
(24:15):
uncomfortableness and such.
So being aware, managing expectations hasalso been really valuable knowing that in
this new coaching journey there is goingto be that J curve of change and things
might get a little bit icky before theystart leveling out a bit.
(24:36):
So that was
something that's kind of resonating forme.
And the other thing, what do I know now?
By 2024, kind of mantra is courage plusaction equals growth.
And this came from a couple quotes, Clairehad Melissa Haig on, and she has this
(25:01):
quote, feeling vulnerable in a momentmeans you're about to do something brave.
And,
There's another quote by Amelia Earhart,the most effective way to do it is to do
it.
So I've been leaning into that courage andI've been reaching out to people and stuff
(25:25):
and it's providing opportunities and it'sproviding new learnings.
So that's that kind of...
has also been a big part of this journeyfor me is, I think, this growth.
Thank you for that, Penny.
I've just had an insight.
(25:46):
I appreciate that.
As we talk about the J -Curve in ourtraining in relation to how people are
technically working, that they'll loseconfidence in how to have conversations.
But I've never taken that across tothinking about business development, that
you're going to have a dip there.
and you're going to think you don't knowanything.
So thank you for that.
(26:07):
I once spoke at a conference with somebodywho used to be a professional footballer.
And his thing was, don't run too early.
He said, if you're playing a footballmatch, the artist don't run too early,
which is, I think, one of the things thatI heard underneath what you were saying,
(26:27):
though.
Go slow.
So I've had an insight.
Who else has had an insight?
What do you know now that you didn't knowwhen we started?
Well, I'll go ahead.
Go Penny and then Kristen.
February, when you were speaking about thesilence piece, I was really attuned to the
(26:53):
tone that you were using and it was justlike a decompression.
So not not only what the the thinkingpartner, the the the client brings forth
that were.
you know, looking, seeing, sensing, allthat sort of stuff.
(27:15):
But it's also mindful of how we're showingup, the tone of voice that we're using.
As Claire mentioned, you know, armyforward back, but that tone piece, it's
all about that nonverbal communication,how we need to be mindful of as we're in
(27:38):
dialogue with somebody.
because they pick up our mood as well asour sound.
Well, I just wanted to say that, honey,your analogy of the race really resonates
(27:58):
with me and is extremely helpful, useful,because I tend to do the same thing when
I'm, I also have loved doing triathlonsand various things and can think of times
I got it wrong.
And what I started to do was,
to your point about how we show up, whatdo I need to do before the race?
(28:24):
When do I wake up?
What do I eat?
How do I, frankly, you know, where do Ipray?
How do I invite a peace so that I'm not sohorizontally focused and I'm going at the
pace that I know?
And one of the things I did in the lastrace I ran, which I actually think might,
(28:47):
be important to think about is I was in, Ihad to stop at one point, which I've never
done ever, ever.
And I think sometimes that point that youmade, Maria, about rest and doing the
counterintuitive thing, doing the reset,and it helped me finish the race as well
(29:08):
as help somebody else who had also waswalking, because we encouraged each other
to the end, to the finish line.
So that embodied analogy has really servedme.
And so thank you, as well as connectedsome other points that many of you have
(29:29):
made around space and silence and rest andgoing against maybe where our instincts
want to lead us.
So thank you.
There's no reason that we can't take abreak in a coaching session.
There's no reason that even in a half anhour session, we can't say why don't we
(29:50):
just take a couple of minutes to grab acoffee.
Because that gives them a space and itgives us a space and that can bring new
stuff.
Feb, what insights have you had so far?
Very similar to Penny and Kristen.
I had a bit of a reset at the beginning ofthe year, because obviously I'd completed
my course at the end of last year, it wasvery busy in marketing.
(30:11):
And I just needed a bit of a reset.
And I think it's
What came up for me in that time is it'sreally important to self -care because if
we're going to give our best as a coach tosomeone else, we need to be top fit.
So, you know, emotionally, physically,mentally, psychologically.
So our own inner work, our own self -careis really important.
(30:34):
And so I think hearing about the raceanalogy was lovely because it, you know,
in the same way you prepare for a race,you should be preparing for your clients.
So I...
I'm still working on this and learning onhow do I keep my own cup full so that I
can help others feel theirs.
(30:55):
She's had another insight.
In the way you said, and then we'll cometo you, Emily, because in the way you said
that, of course, what Penny said when shewas talking about preparing for the race,
most of the preparation for a race is thelast five years, not the last five
minutes.
And that's true in coaching too, isn't it?
Emily, what insights have you had so far?
(31:16):
Yeah.
So just to go back to that point, yeah,absolutely.
And sometimes I hear myself saying thingsto...
coaches and I think I'm not really doingthat myself but you know I'm not being a
very good example.
You know things like meditation and thingsthat I just know would be incredibly
nourishing for myself but I'm offeringthat and inviting others to do that and
I'm not doing it myself.
(31:36):
So it's something that we worked on duringthe course that I did last year and it was
a very important component and I'vedefinitely learned a lot from that and you
know over time things start slipping andyou just need to re you know go by need to
go back to
you know, my the list that I made duringthe time of my coaching course to to, you
(31:58):
know, revisit all the self care topicsthat I discussed during that time and go
back to make sure that I'm personally ontrack.
The other thing I was going to mention washow nourishing this is.
So this community and, you know, speakingto others.
So during my coaching course, we had amentor and a pod.
There were five of us that workedtogether.
(32:21):
We met monthly.
And we just found that hugely valuable.
We were across Switzerland in differentlocations.
Some of us lived in the same city.
Otherwise, we met just online.
But it was just hugely nourishing for usall.
And we got so much out of it.
And it's something that I very much missnow that the course has come to an end at
(32:45):
the end of last year.
And just being here today and hearing thestories and being part of the community
just instantly tells me that this iswhat's missing.
I need to reestablish this somehow.
And whilst I'm seeing contact with myother pod members, some are still in
corporate, some are doing other things,it's not the same environment as it was.
(33:08):
So that's something that I've definitelylearned as well and something that I
endeavored to do once I get off the calltoday.
Join our supervision community, the doorsare wide open.
Yes.
Maria, what insights have you had?
Well, I'm thinking like putting everythingtogether because I totally agree, Emily,
(33:30):
this is so, so great for first thing inthe morning.
I've been learning a lot about businessand all my preconceptions, you know, you
can theoretically know something, but thenwhen you're actually going through it.
boy, it's different.
And I'm thinking about what Penny wassaying about the race.
(33:51):
Look, Penny, this is a brilliant analogyfor all of us and I don't even race.
But this point about patience, this pointabout letting things be.
And I feel when I when I take a moment toreflect, I know and I can identify the
times when I was relaxed.
the times when I was letting things be,you know, trusting in my own learnings,
(34:16):
you know, that five years rather than fiveminutes, I felt so much better and I was
able to kind of accept incoming stuff, bemore flexible, et cetera.
I've had a Billy Joel song stuck in myhead for the last few months.
It's Vienna.
And at some point he says, slow down,you're doing fine.
(34:40):
And then another point, so down, you're soambitious for a juvenile.
And I think it's just so interesting thatmy brain is playing those songs back to me
and really realising that so manydifferent things, but number one,
patience, number two, trusting yourselfand kind of just letting it be has really
(35:02):
helped me with my business.
Now we've all got an earworm.
I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
But you are forgiven.
It's a nice earworm.
I can think of others that I would notwant to have, but that's a lovely earworm.
I won't say the others that I wouldn'twant to have because then everybody will
have that one too.
Beb?
(35:23):
Yeah, as Maria was speaking, what wascoming up for me was what I've learned
since leaving Henley.
And it's just that that's the beginning.
You've then got to go through the prep foraccreditation and build your business.
And it's a personal service that we'regiving.
offering to people.
So there's going to be people that gelwith you, that like you, and it's going to
be people that don't for a millionreasons, because our wiring is different.
(35:48):
And just coming to terms with all of thatand just, you know, accepting that and
working at the pace that you're at isreally important.
And I think for me, there was a learningthat it's not all go, go, go.
I've still got a hill to climb here.
And just being OK with that and where I amin the journey.
And it all takes time.
(36:09):
It's going to take the time it's going totake.
And not everyone will like us.
I made such a big mistake last night.
I decided to look on Goodreads.
I don't know why, to look at reviews tosee if I'd got any reviews on Goodreads.
So it was stupid.
They were all amazing, apart from one.
(36:30):
There were 60 reviews.
And one of them was not nice.
Well, it wasn't that horrible.
But of course, which one do I, which onedo I go to bed with?
I don't go to bed with the other 59.
I wake up at two o 'clock this morningthinking about what this review had said.
But I think it's a really importantlesson, isn't it, to remember that we are
(36:55):
offering a personal service and it's goingto be absolutely spot on for some people.
And for some people, it or we are not theright fit.
And that's okay.
Yeah.
But I just want you to know that we're allhuman and it still hurts.
So what do you wish you'd learnt in yourtraining?
(37:21):
that you know now.
Penny.
I think I'm going back to the businesspiece.
Maria had mentioned to there's so manyfirst drafts that come with.
starting a business, especially as asolopreneur, is everything's new and
(37:44):
there's so much to learn and figure out.
And so it's much like that climbing thathill.
So having, I think that business componentwould have been helpful and maybe add some
(38:05):
more realistic.
expectations around it.
And, and the other thing is, you know,with social workers and those others in
the helping profession, you know, theyhave, I guess, a different, you know, I
(38:27):
guess, because they're the registered andsuch, you know, getting clients and stuff
is seems to be a much easier process,they're really in demand.
And I'm finding with, that we have here,like I'm involved with the International
Coaching Federation, it's a little bitdifferent because we're not necessarily,
(38:53):
you know, recognized by insurances andsuch.
So reaching out and finding those clientsor having those clients come to us, it's a
much slower process.
Yeah, and it, it's changing.
But it's changing very slowly.
(39:14):
So when I started out, nobody knew what acoach was.
Now people think they know what a coachis.
So that's change.
But one of the things that I noticed inthe UK now is that I'm in conversation
with a few people where they're working inthe health service and
(39:36):
And there are pockets of the healthservice which are recognizing that
coaching is a really important thing.
Small pockets, but it's beginning toshift.
But it's interesting when you use theexample of social workers, because people
are referred to social workers, aren'tthey?
Somebody else is in dialogue with somebodyand says, we need to get a social worker
(39:57):
in on this.
So the social worker doesn't have to doany marketing.
because that work automatically comes.
Like in the same way, if you have aproblem with your taps, you know you need
a plumber.
Whereas if you've got a challenge withyour life.
So yeah, and I really recommend Penny thatyou get yourself into some networks where
(40:19):
people are talking about those things.
There's a great podcast.
There's some podcasts with Sarah Short,which are worth going back to and
listening to.
And she talks a lot about them.
Also Keely Vuong -White and...
Keely's going to do something with us inthe community.
So I'll put some links in the show notesand send them out to you because there are
(40:41):
some good insights there.
Who else?
What do you wish somebody had taught you?
As you were talking Claire, something thatwas coming up for me was, people don't
(41:02):
usually go to the dentist unless they'vegot toothache, well, unless they're good
at doing their six monthly checks.
And with coaching, I kind of never seethat people kept fit with coaching on a
more continuous basis, but the realitythat I've learned is people look for a
coach when there's something they need tofix, that they're having trouble sorting
(41:23):
out themselves.
So there's this attitude towards coachingthat,
Say, for example, you're working towards agreat performance review.
Once you've got it, I don't need coachingnow.
I've got my good results.
There isn't the attitude that it'ssomething that we need continuously to
grow and to develop and to build.
So I think the way we market our coachingis important.
(41:45):
And that's something that I'm kind ofplaying around with at the moment.
Because we're not like a dentist.
You don't really just need to come to uswhen there's a problem.
Although you've just dropped a gem inthere and I don't think you noticed it.
What was it?
What if we were like a dentist?
(42:05):
What if we offered people regular sixmonthly check -ins so that they were
already on our books when they needed tocome for an emergency?
Well, that would be lovely, wouldn't it?
That would be the ideal.
But I think there's just this generalattitude.
that a coach or a therapist or a socialworker, you go to them when there's an
(42:29):
issue.
So what if you thought about the dentist?
I'm just throwing that out.
I mean, it was your thing, but I'm justreally interested about what that might
look like.
So I drive our relationship, sort of.
(42:51):
I drive three hours to go to a dentist whoI like.
Twice a year, I drive three hours to go tothe dentist.
And it's really important part of my life.
and then I don't have emergencies.
(43:12):
I just wonder if there's something inthat.
That's all.
something to reflect on, I think.
Yeah, yeah.
Because it's normal, right?
I mean, some people don't have a dentist.
Interesting.
So what was our question that we werethinking about?
(43:36):
What do you wish people had told you?
Kristin?
So this is a little bit of a pivot, but Iguess, so I'm not, perhaps as of now, as
brave as the rest of you in putting out myown shingle, so to speak, but thinking
about it.
(43:57):
And so because my...
latest role in the Church of England isinvolving actually coaching other priests.
I perhaps naively thought that could bepart of my training.
Until the brilliant supervision communityI went on, Coffee Morning, where two
(44:22):
amazing experienced coaches helped methink through the fact that something that
I'd already
twigged, which was this wholeconfidentiality issue with respect to the
fact that we are all reporting to the samekind of vicar and et cetera.
So anyway, I wish I had perhaps, I'm notsure I could have thought it through
(44:46):
before being in it, but I'm still workingthrough the boundary setting and whether I
am actually incorporating coaching toolsinto my job or whether I can actually be.
a coach and I'm sort of coming to theconclusion that it's more the former and
not the latter because of the inability totruly promise confidentiality.
(45:10):
I mean not withstanding safeguardingissues, we can't fully promise
confidentiality but and I will say thatthe training, the level one training has
been brilliant in making sure the masterclasses you've done on ethics Claire and
as well as the action learning set thatSue did has
you know, bubbled this up very clearly.
(45:33):
So I'm not sure it's a, I have had in thetraining, but I guess maybe I was a bit
naive to think that this job would besomething I could get my training hours
through.
So I might need to do the outside stuff inaddition to, and I haven't quite wrestled
with how to do that.
So we can perhaps have a conversationabout that offline.
(45:57):
great.
Thank you.
I would love that.
Emily.
There's something that I'm introducingmyself.
So I wasn't taught it per se.
So it's around the use of props andcreativity and which I absolutely love.
So I'm very much a creative person.
(46:18):
I like art.
And so what I introduce into my sessionsis the use of the prop somehow.
So I have a little flower.
It's one of the...
ones I use quite a lot, if you can seethat, which flops when it's not in such a
good place.
So I'm self -teaching, I suppose.
(46:40):
But it would have been wonderful if therewas some sort of session.
I mean, maybe there are coaching courseswhich actually cover that and the use of
the prop.
So I partially do my coaching online.
Partially, I've got a studio, which isalso my art studio.
So it's very much...
and the spur of the moment, I look aroundand see if there's something that will be
(47:02):
helpful in the conversation.
And it definitely creates those ahamoments when somebody is given a prop
which really supports their thinking.
And one example that I gave the other dayis that she felt like the weight of the
world was on her shoulders.
So I gave her this really heavy stack ofbooks that was very heavy and then a
(47:25):
feather.
And...
you know, she knew that her journey waswanting to go towards this, this feather,
this likeness and what that meant to her.
It's hugely powerful.
And as I said, I'm self teaching at themoment.
And it's something that, you know, Icertainly feel is adding something
different to my practice.
(47:46):
So we were talking about being commercialand having a unique selling point.
And that's something that I want to buildon in the market.
But maybe that's something that's slightlydifferent to.
to what other coaches are offering.
That's such a great example.
I call that change the medium.
Can I just make an offer, Emily?
Yeah, of course.
(48:06):
The art of that is just don't ever coachin an empty space and make sure that
they're never in an empty space becauseyou can use whatever is available.
Yeah.
So the most transformational thing that Ihave coached with in the last month is
this box of tissues.
(48:27):
Because I invited the person, they saidthey felt they were carrying a lot of
stuff.
So she said she felt heavy, so you gaveher some heavy books.
So in that moment, those books, you mightnever use those books again.
That's what I really love about what yousaid.
Because somebody else might never say thesame thing, but next time you can use
something else.
(48:47):
So just don't ever coach in an emptyspace.
But the person said that this thing isalways getting in the way.
So I said, what if you just put this thingjust for the moment to one side, let's see
what happens.
And my goodness, boom, everything changed.
I don't know what they moved, they movedsomething at their end.
(49:08):
So the art of that is never, ever, evercoaching an empty space because you always
need stuff which completely justifies thestate of my desk.
Penny.
I know, I justify mine.
Good, good.
Penny and then Maria.
I am just curious around that because Isee a lot of value in it and I'm curious,
(49:31):
you know, for when you're in a virtualenvironment, you know, and they might have
something on their desk and how do youpotentially, you know, work with props
when you're in a virtual capacity asopposed to in person?
Invite them and do the same thing at yourend.
(49:54):
and don't make a thing of it.
So that was it online.
I said, have you got some, it feels likethat thing's quite big.
How about we try just putting it down?
Have you got something big?
And they got something big and I justpicked the biggest thing up and I moved
it.
Because then I know how many thingsthey've got on their space, but I don't
(50:15):
need to know what it looks like.
So try it.
But the real art, Emily and Penny andeverybody,
The real art of using props is that theyhave actually told you what to use in what
they said.
And if you want to learn to notice that,then get yourself on practice coaching
(50:38):
places where you're not the coach andyou're not the thinker.
And you can simply notice what thethinker's saying because they have surely
told you.
We have a coaching practicum, which is lowcost, and that's a great place to do that,
because you get, I think, fiveopportunities to watch.
(51:00):
But what you're watching is you'rewatching the thinker thinking and not the
coach coaching.
Because it's so tempting, isn't it, indevelopment?
You watch the coach coaching, and youthink, that was a good question.
I'll have that one.
But actually, you have enough.
But the art is to watch the thinkerthinking, because that's where you do
really amazing development.
But she, you get that.
(51:21):
That great example, Emily, you told us,she told you to get the books.
And that's brilliant.
I can remember one residential wheresomebody said something similar.
And I did what you did.
I looked for the heaviest thing in theroom.
And this poor lady ended up standingholding this chair.
(51:42):
And of course, she said, I said, you'resaying it feels really heavy.
How about you pick up something reallyheavy?
So she picked up this massive chair andshe went, I can't hold it.
I said, well, what are you going to dowith it then?
And that was the unlocker.
So they will surely tell you.
And I just want to encourage you, Emily,be absolutely, totally radical.
Yeah.
(52:02):
Thank you.
What a wonderful thing.
Yeah.
Thank you.
I'm going to be even more crazy then.
Thank you for that permission.
We're coming to the top of the hour.
So can we just go to Maria?
and then we'll have to finish for now.
But I think the five of you are comingback, right?
(52:24):
It would be lovely to come back.
I was just thinking how lucky we were tohave a great grounding in how to be a good
ICF coach at Henley.
And I had a very lucky experience in thatmy tutors were Anne James and Adiola
Olidemi, who gave you this kind of...
appreciation of what coaching can do.
(52:47):
And I guess my learning, what I wish I hadknown back then, was how transformational
learning how to be a coach is for you as acoach.
It's such an incredible exercise inlearning about yourself, knowing yourself,
(53:08):
and you know, people journal their wholelives and still have...
a completely different experience when youcome to actually being a coach.
And that being a coach, those humanelements, you know, sometimes you have to
throw out all of your learning about howto be a great ICF, you know, accredited
coach and just be with the person.
(53:29):
So I did learn that, but I think thisconversation has really helped to
underline that for me about all thesewonderful things that we've all learned.
Yeah, amazing.
Learn your theories as well as you can andput them aside when you touch the miracle
of the living soul.
And you will still be staying within whatyou learned.
(53:52):
And you will, for you as an ICF coach, youwill still be staying within that, but it
will be held lightly.
So here's my suggestion as we finish.
I reckon that we need to have anotherconversation six months, another podcast.
Is that okay with everybody?
And Penny, we will have it in the daytimefor you.
(54:15):
Because listeners...
Penny has arrived at the coaching in inthe middle of the night.
Respect.
So thank you, everybody, for coming to thecoaching in today.
Emily Rapet, Penny van den Berg, FebroniaRuoco, Maria Fernandez and Kristin Brice.
Thank you, everyone, for listening.
And we will be back.
(54:37):
Thank you, Claire, for the space.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much, Claire.
Bye.
Thank you.
Bye.
Thank you.
So bye -bye, everyone.
If you've enjoyed what you've heard today,we'd love you to share the podcast with a
friend or leave a comment on social media.
And if you'd like to become a regular atThe Coaching In, you can subscribe on
Podbean and all major podcast channels.
(55:00):
We look forward to welcoming you nexttime.
You've been listening to The Coaching In,3D Coaching's virtual pub.
For more information, check out 3dcoaching.com.
You're at the Coaching Inn, 3D Coaching'svirtual pub where we enjoy conversations
with people who engage in the world ofcoaching.
Hello, and welcome to this week's editionof The Coaching In.
I'm Claire Pedrick, and today we've got anopen table with new coaches.
(00:22):
I've just gone through the stats of thepodcast and noticed that our last podcast
with new coaches is our best listened toepisode ever.
And it's the one that people keep goingback to.
So I hope you enjoy this one as much aspeople have enjoyed the last one.
And I'll pop the last one in the shownotes.
(00:43):
So today I have with me at the CoachingInn round the table, Emily Raffett, Henny
Vandenberg, Beb Ruoco, Maria Fernandez andChristine Brice.
Welcome everybody to the Coaching Inn.
Hello.
Hello, thank you.
So let's hear a nugget about your coachingjourney.
(01:06):
So, and a nugget about what makes youhuman.
So who are you?
Where are you in the world?
And where did you train?
Would be great.
Emily?
Yeah, happy to start.
So I'm Emily Rappert.
I'm doing a career pivot at the moment.
So I was 30 years in corporate.
(01:28):
I worked in a consultancy firm in aprivate bank here in Switzerland.
And I got to the age of 50 and I thought,this is not what I want to do anymore.
So I pivoted.
to be much more people focused.
So coaching is part of that.
And so I trained last year in Switzerland,which I really, really enjoyed.
(01:48):
And I got my certificate at the end oflast year.
And there was a final question.
And I've forgotten what the final questionwas that you requested.
Can't remember.
That could be it.
That's me in a nutshell.
Great.
So I'm absolutely delighted to be here.
That's great to have you.
Penny.
(02:10):
Hello.
Good morning.
I'm here in Canada and much like Emily, Itoo did a pivot.
I was serving in the Canadian Armed Forcesup until October of 2022.
And I have to laugh because it was muchlike you've explained Claire in coaching
(02:33):
conversations how in the last few minutesthese big insights can happen.
So it was in my last year of serving inthe military where I had an opportunity to
be doing some conflict management coachingwith D &D within my organization that I
had the insight.
It's like, yes, this is where I want tocontinue being is coaching.
(02:57):
And so after I retired, I went back touniversity through the University of
California Davis and got my life coachingthere.
So I'm just in that building block frame,time frame, and looking to launch just in
(03:18):
time for International Women's Day.
So I guess for me, the human behind thecouch, it's that humility and curiosity
that I kind of like to lead with.
Welcome, Penny.
And it's always amazing to have peoplecome to the Coaching Inn in the middle of
(03:41):
their night.
So kudos.
Thank you.
We'll keep pouring the coffee.
Welcome.
Hi, Claire.
Good morning.
I'm absolutely thrilled to be here.
So thank you for having me on the podcast.
So about me, so I'm still in corporateworld.
(04:02):
I'm still a marketeer working withcorporate businesses.
I'm very passionate about consumerinsights, so the behavior of people.
And what got me into coaching wasmentoring my niece for her university
exams.
So that was the beginning of the journey,which then took me to completing the PCC
(04:23):
at Henley last year, in November 23.
And a whole new world of passion forcoaching has emerged.
I'm currently on the MSc program.
and just loving the whole journey, justlearning and loving every experience to go
with it.
Wow, thank you.
The human behind the coach, I really lovepeople.
(04:48):
I'm just very curious.
Why do we do the things we do?
That fascinates me.
Amazing.
And you've just got to 10 ,000 followerson LinkedIn.
I have, which is completely madness.
We will join you in a little celebrationthere.
(05:09):
thank you.
Yeah.
So Maria, welcome.
Hi, thanks, Claire.
Hi, everybody.
I am Maria.
I like to say that I'm a coach and I'm amaker.
I support early and mid -career people andmaybe we'll get into that later on as to
(05:29):
why.
I've been coaching with a big C sinceAugust last year and I also went to
Henley.
I feel like I've had a coaching approachwhile I was working as a leader slash
manager in the past, sometimes annoying mycolleagues by asking them what they would
do rather than what I think they shoulddo.
(05:51):
and in terms of the human behind thecoach, I think I'm really interested in
holding space and allowing people to cometo their own conclusions about what
success is for them.
Cool, and you can't just say I'm a makerand then not say anything about it.
Yeah, so I think I always have...
(06:16):
loads of hobbies and I can't seem to shakethem.
But I knit, I crochet, but my big makinglove is pottery so I'm a potter as well.
Amazing.
A lot of mindfulness in pottery.
Wow.
I'm hoping that next time we do a newcoaches podcast in about two years time
(06:37):
that I'm going to be able to say I'm abook binder.
But I don't think that having bound onebook that's got 16 pages quite makes me
one of those yet.
I'm a little bit hooked.
Yeah, you've got to start somewhere.
Exactly.
Kristin, hello.
Hello.
I'm truly in awe of the group.
(06:59):
So I'm Kristin.
My reason for starting coaching was afellow priest.
on a leadership program told me I couldreally benefit.
So after a car journey where Idemonstrated a poor ability to listen.
(07:24):
So I have my human behind my coaches.
I am a parish priest and prior to that wasin corporate world in HR in the investment
banking industry, live in London, but had,but
but I'm American and started training with3D in, I guess it was March of last year.
(07:48):
And I'm now on the training journey towardlevel one.
And part of my role in the current parishI'm licensed to in center of London is
coaching other priests toward where theymight end up trying to figure out whether
that works.
you know, in terms of whether it'sactually able to be boundary, but I am
(08:11):
loving it and I'm really enjoying thecontinued training.
So I have found it a very liberating wayof being and being with people because I
think one of my real strengths andweaknesses,
(08:34):
is my can -do attitude.
And in fact, I have a, speaking of peoplemaking things, my dear friend made this
for me.
Let it go, you don't have to fix it.
So I keep that on my windowsill.
That's me.
So I've got two questions that I'd reallylove us to dig into today.
(08:59):
And we can go with either or both at thesame time or whatever we wish.
So one of them is, what are you learning?
And the other one is, what do you know nowthat you wished you'd known a few weeks or
months ago?
might take a moment to think about.
(09:21):
What are you learning and or what do youknow now that you wish you'd known months
ago?
Kristin.
I am learning to notice.
And I'm trying, it's so hard to learn tonotice that I'm actually keeping a little
(09:43):
list of when I've actually done it.
When I've really used the word I'mnoticing and I'm realizing how powerful it
is, how seen people feel.
So it's and how much less.
(10:07):
it is for me and my spirit because I thinkmy I used to leave my role exhausted
giving out so much and people would lovebeing with me and yet I would find it at
(10:29):
the expense of my own space and energy andI'm learning a lot around how
The underlying assumption that people arerobust enough to deal with their own stuff
until they're not.
It's incredibly liberating and I cannotice and be less control.
(10:53):
Control?
Well, I hate to use the word controllingbecause that's so negative, but I do think
I tried to hold on to control.
So the letting it go, you don't have tofix it kind of thing.
Anyway, that's me.
Thank you for your honesty.
And I love that because that's a...
That's a lovely piece of technicallearning, isn't it?
And it's for me, it's the journey of alifetime for every coach to say what we
(11:15):
see without judgment.
So to notice and to be able to offer that.
And most of us, and I would say, in mypersonal life, I am much better at saying
what I see with judgment.
So.
Don't think I can carry this all the timeeverywhere.
(11:36):
Because actually saying what you seewithout judgment is really hard work.
It's light and it's deep and it's hardbecause you've got to go actually what is
it that I am seeing in this moment?
So that's a great technical thing.
So what are other people learning?
It could be technical, it could be aboutthe business, whatever you wish.
Who else has got something to share?
(11:58):
Maria?
Hi.
So,
Recently, I'm doing a bit more study inhow our brains work when it comes to
behavioral change.
And one thing that's kind of related towhat Kristen just said, really shook me
about how when things are not going sogreat, our tendency is to do and to do
(12:24):
lots to kind of fix it.
Like you said, grab control and the like.
But that's completely natural because it'sthat fight or flight type instinct.
But when you can kind of drive it to moreof the restful, love, people -centered
stuff, it can really, really help.
(12:47):
And it's science as well, so that'sbrilliant.
It's actually what's happening in yourbrain.
And I think throughout my life, whenthings have got really tough, I've wanted
to fight.
And I can see that in some of the peoplewho I work with.
But sometimes taking a beat and restingand figuring out, you know, what's the
(13:08):
most loving or kind thing I can do.
Even in the work environment, what's thekindest thing that I can do can be so much
more rewarding.
And I've actually seen it from people whoI've worked with who just need that space
as well to think and to think of somethingmore compassionate.
(13:29):
It absolutely blew my mind that it wasbased in science as well, which is a
terrible thing to say for a formerscientist, but there we go.
I love what you said there about what'sthe kindest thing that I can do.
Because the way you said that, Maria,didn't feel at all in the realm of
rescuing.
It felt very much in the realm of enablingpeople to get their own power.
(13:54):
That's a great question.
What's the kindest thing I can do here?
That might become a little video in thesupervision community.
I'll credit you.
Yeah, just hearing Maria, we're on thesame course.
So it's interesting hearing Maria'sinsights.
(14:16):
But what's been coming up for me is reallyunderstanding that we are all wired in a
different way and how this then takesitself into the coaching scenario or even
personal into
personal relationships.
So what I'm learning currently is just tohold space with the person where they are
(14:36):
in the moment, where they are now, and nothaving judgment.
So that's a huge step because in my workas a marketeer, we often have to be right.
We have to make the right judgment calls.
So getting comfortable with not having theanswers, with not knowing where we're
going, with just being there and acceptingsomebody for the way they are wired is a
(14:57):
huge challenge.
but it's incredibly liberating as well.
Wow, what a great insight, moving frombeing right to being present.
I love that, Feb.
Thank you.
Emily?
Yeah, so I explained at the beginning thatI was a consultant, so always having to
provide solutions, and that's what I waspaid for.
(15:19):
And now I'm doing the exact opposite.
So that was a real challenge.
And certainly through my training, I thinkthe biggest learning skill for me was
listening.
and really listening and listening andlistening.
And we had some very good exercises wherewe were taught how to actively listen.
(15:40):
And that was a real challenge.
And it's exhausting, really exhausting todo that effectively.
And I was always at the beginning, and I'msure I'm still doing it now, is thinking
about the next question.
What's the next question?
What's the next question?
Rather than actually actively listening.
And the coach is telling you,
(16:01):
everything that you need and you're ontheir journey with them and being with
them and holding space as the others weresharing.
It's such a skill to do that and it'ssomething that I'm learning day in, day
out.
To have that space with somebody, learningabout silences and the power of the
(16:22):
silence and feeling uncomfortable in thesilence, feeling uncomfortable with tears
as well.
and knowing when to interject.
Do I allow them?
Because I think that moment is so powerfulfor the coaching.
But when do you step in?
When do you interject?
When do you hand over the tissues?
(16:43):
Do you just allow them just to experiencethat?
Because it's something that they'reexperiencing so powerfully.
But all of this is very, very different tothe life that I came from, even though I
was absolutely passionate about people andthe people agendas where I was.
So learning that and continuing for me tobe on that journey, I'm just enjoying this
(17:06):
and it gets easier.
Every session that you have, it getseasier and easier, but I'm still very much
a novice in that space, I think.
And sometimes we all get it wrong.
I get it wrong sometimes.
Sometimes we just get the timing wrong.
But what you've described there is thatbeautiful journey from learning to listen
to learning about timing.
(17:29):
Yeah, absolutely.
And how long dare you keep that silence?
Yeah.
Yeah, because I know when I've been in theother seat, when I've been the coach, that
silence is beautiful.
It's a beautiful space.
And I hadn't appreciated it, actually, atthe time.
I didn't want the coach to do any checks.
(17:49):
I wanted to feel the beauty of that spacebecause I was really creating something
within myself.
Exactly.
And actually, often the person who'sholding the silence doesn't know they were
silent.
Yeah.
Because they might have been being silentin the silence.
But they might actually have been reallyquite busy in the silence and we were just
(18:12):
not in the way.
Yeah, yeah, that's true.
Yeah, no, you're right.
They're very, very busy.
Their mind is, yeah, I mean, exactly.
Exactly.
That brain is ticking over.
You know, that's what I absolutely loveabout working on Zoom, because you can
watch somebody in the silence and you canstare them out.
(18:37):
I hope that is received in the way Iintended to deliver it.
But as the person goes silent, you can fixon them, but they don't feel fixed on
because of the slight dissonance in wherethe camera is and where you're looking.
And it means that coaching on Zoom isabsolutely, without doubt, the best place
(19:01):
to learn about silence.
And I would say for me, it's do not speakunless they look at you.
which of course they're not quite doingbecause of the dissonance in the camera.
So there's something for me about reallylearning when they're looking at you so
(19:24):
that you can see when they're not lookingat you, so that when they're not looking
at you in the silence, you can see whenthey come back.
And that will make your silences superlong, Emily.
I'm sensing that.
While we're talking about Zoom,unconscious Penny, you haven't mentioned,
but it's related to this that I wish I'dknown.
(19:46):
Can I make one quick guess?
Sure.
I learned that therefore my background andmy position really matters because in my
last practice session, I held the silencefor a really long time.
And my thinker slash coachee said I lookedlike I was, cause I was sitting like this
(20:08):
really engaged, but I look, I don't knowhow I looked to you.
I'm not, I don't have myself view on,which is the other thing I learned is
maybe sometimes it's good to see what youlook like, right?
That's too close.
I look really in base, you know, whereas,you know, and maybe off center, I don't
know.
So that's one thing I just wanted to throwin when I wish I,
(20:30):
learned and thought about how does my zoomframe look and is this too busy?
And anyway, I don't know what others thinkabout that, but Penny, I'm conscious
humans.
Yeah.
And we'll come to you Penny in a sec.
But there is something about being faraway from the screen, being close to the
screen.
How big are we?
When do we lean in?
When do we lean out?
How far do we lean in?
(20:51):
Because if you're face to face withsomebody and you lean in a few centimeters
or inches, it's
it only feels like a few centimetres orinches.
But if you're on Zoom and you're only thisfar away from, you know, you're only 60
centimetres, a couple of feet away fromthe camera and you're leaning, you
suddenly become absolutely enormous.
(21:13):
Just when they need a bit more space.
So making space between us is a reallyimportant thing.
Yeah, just adding to Emily's point, whenyou were describing the silence, Emily,
and how delicious it was, it just made methink how it beautifully slows everything
down.
So the silence feels really, really longsometimes.
(21:37):
But that's a beautiful thing because it'sallowing us to detach from the everyday
busyness and actually do some thinking.
So I just, you know, what was coming upfor me was how lovely that slowing down is
accompanied with the silence.
And of course, the really difficult thingfor us to learn is to completely be aware
(21:58):
that when they come out of the silence,they're going to be in a completely
different place.
So any work that we do in the silence inservice of them is a complete waste of
time.
So we have to learn how we hold thatsilence with them.
Because often it can be used by the coachgoing, right, let me just work out what's
(22:19):
going on here.
What do I need to do next?
Penny, welcome.
So I guess what I'm learning is probablyto do personal and also business.
And that's patience.
(22:41):
so I don't know if anybody has done anykind of racing.
I used to do triathlons and, and someother, you know, shorter races.
And I don't know if you've experiencedthis, if you've raced yourself, but at the
beginning, the starting line, when thatgun goes off, there's a, there's a lot of
(23:03):
energy at the start.
And I have found myself.
kind of going at other people's pace andbecause that energy is pulling you along.
So it's having that patience, you know,much like your journey, doing your own
journey, because if you're trying to moveat other people's pace, there's a chance
(23:29):
of being burning out.
Your nutrition isn't going to be what it'ssupposed to be.
So just keeping at my own pace.
what I can handle, what works for me hasbeen something that I've really learned a
lot in this process.
(23:49):
As well as when I was at UCD, one of ourinstructors, Laurie Kozart, was talking
about the J -curve.
And this has had to do with change.
And in that time of transition,
your performance will be disrupted andthere's going to be a reduction and
(24:15):
uncomfortableness and such.
So being aware, managing expectations hasalso been really valuable knowing that in
this new coaching journey there is goingto be that J curve of change and things
might get a little bit icky before theystart leveling out a bit.
(24:36):
So that was
something that's kind of resonating forme.
And the other thing, what do I know now?
By 2024, kind of mantra is courage plusaction equals growth.
And this came from a couple quotes, Clairehad Melissa Haig on, and she has this
(25:01):
quote, feeling vulnerable in a momentmeans you're about to do something brave.
And,
There's another quote by Amelia Earhart,the most effective way to do it is to do
it.
So I've been leaning into that courage andI've been reaching out to people and stuff
(25:25):
and it's providing opportunities and it'sproviding new learnings.
So that's that kind of...
has also been a big part of this journeyfor me is, I think, this growth.
Thank you for that, Penny.
I've just had an insight.
(25:46):
I appreciate that.
As we talk about the J -Curve in ourtraining in relation to how people are
technically working, that they'll loseconfidence in how to have conversations.
But I've never taken that across tothinking about business development, that
you're going to have a dip there.
and you're going to think you don't knowanything.
So thank you for that.
(26:07):
I once spoke at a conference with somebodywho used to be a professional footballer.
And his thing was, don't run too early.
He said, if you're playing a footballmatch, the artist don't run too early,
which is, I think, one of the things thatI heard underneath what you were saying,
(26:27):
though.
Go slow.
So I've had an insight.
Who else has had an insight?
What do you know now that you didn't knowwhen we started?
Well, I'll go ahead.
Go Penny and then Kristen.
February, when you were speaking about thesilence piece, I was really attuned to the
(26:53):
tone that you were using and it was justlike a decompression.
So not not only what the the thinkingpartner, the the the client brings forth
that were.
you know, looking, seeing, sensing, allthat sort of stuff.
(27:15):
But it's also mindful of how we're showingup, the tone of voice that we're using.
As Claire mentioned, you know, armyforward back, but that tone piece, it's
all about that nonverbal communication,how we need to be mindful of as we're in
(27:38):
dialogue with somebody.
because they pick up our mood as well asour sound.
Well, I just wanted to say that, honey,your analogy of the race really resonates
(27:58):
with me and is extremely helpful, useful,because I tend to do the same thing when
I'm, I also have loved doing triathlonsand various things and can think of times
I got it wrong.
And what I started to do was,
to your point about how we show up, whatdo I need to do before the race?
(28:24):
When do I wake up?
What do I eat?
How do I, frankly, you know, where do Ipray?
How do I invite a peace so that I'm not sohorizontally focused and I'm going at the
pace that I know?
And one of the things I did in the lastrace I ran, which I actually think might,
(28:47):
be important to think about is I was in, Ihad to stop at one point, which I've never
done ever, ever.
And I think sometimes that point that youmade, Maria, about rest and doing the
counterintuitive thing, doing the reset,and it helped me finish the race as well
(29:08):
as help somebody else who had also waswalking, because we encouraged each other
to the end, to the finish line.
So that embodied analogy has really servedme.
And so thank you, as well as connectedsome other points that many of you have
(29:29):
made around space and silence and rest andgoing against maybe where our instincts
want to lead us.
So thank you.
There's no reason that we can't take abreak in a coaching session.
There's no reason that even in a half anhour session, we can't say why don't we
(29:50):
just take a couple of minutes to grab acoffee.
Because that gives them a space and itgives us a space and that can bring new
stuff.
Feb, what insights have you had so far?
Very similar to Penny and Kristen.
I had a bit of a reset at the beginning ofthe year, because obviously I'd completed
my course at the end of last year, it wasvery busy in marketing.
(30:11):
And I just needed a bit of a reset.
And I think it's
What came up for me in that time is it'sreally important to self -care because if
we're going to give our best as a coach tosomeone else, we need to be top fit.
So, you know, emotionally, physically,mentally, psychologically.
So our own inner work, our own self -careis really important.
(30:34):
And so I think hearing about the raceanalogy was lovely because it, you know,
in the same way you prepare for a race,you should be preparing for your clients.
So I...
I'm still working on this and learning onhow do I keep my own cup full so that I
can help others feel theirs.
(30:55):
She's had another insight.
In the way you said, and then we'll cometo you, Emily, because in the way you said
that, of course, what Penny said when shewas talking about preparing for the race,
most of the preparation for a race is thelast five years, not the last five
minutes.
And that's true in coaching too, isn't it?
Emily, what insights have you had so far?
(31:16):
Yeah.
So just to go back to that point, yeah,absolutely.
And sometimes I hear myself saying thingsto...
coaches and I think I'm not really doingthat myself but you know I'm not being a
very good example.
You know things like meditation and thingsthat I just know would be incredibly
nourishing for myself but I'm offeringthat and inviting others to do that and
I'm not doing it myself.
(31:36):
So it's something that we worked on duringthe course that I did last year and it was
a very important component and I'vedefinitely learned a lot from that and you
know over time things start slipping andyou just need to re you know go by need to
go back to
you know, my the list that I made duringthe time of my coaching course to to, you
(31:58):
know, revisit all the self care topicsthat I discussed during that time and go
back to make sure that I'm personally ontrack.
The other thing I was going to mention washow nourishing this is.
So this community and, you know, speakingto others.
So during my coaching course, we had amentor and a pod.
There were five of us that workedtogether.
(32:21):
We met monthly.
And we just found that hugely valuable.
We were across Switzerland in differentlocations.
Some of us lived in the same city.
Otherwise, we met just online.
But it was just hugely nourishing for usall.
And we got so much out of it.
And it's something that I very much missnow that the course has come to an end at
(32:45):
the end of last year.
And just being here today and hearing thestories and being part of the community
just instantly tells me that this iswhat's missing.
I need to reestablish this somehow.
And whilst I'm seeing contact with myother pod members, some are still in
corporate, some are doing other things,it's not the same environment as it was.
(33:08):
So that's something that I've definitelylearned as well and something that I
endeavored to do once I get off the calltoday.
Join our supervision community, the doorsare wide open.
Yes.
Maria, what insights have you had?
Well, I'm thinking like putting everythingtogether because I totally agree, Emily,
(33:30):
this is so, so great for first thing inthe morning.
I've been learning a lot about businessand all my preconceptions, you know, you
can theoretically know something, but thenwhen you're actually going through it.
boy, it's different.
And I'm thinking about what Penny wassaying about the race.
(33:51):
Look, Penny, this is a brilliant analogyfor all of us and I don't even race.
But this point about patience, this pointabout letting things be.
And I feel when I when I take a moment toreflect, I know and I can identify the
times when I was relaxed.
the times when I was letting things be,you know, trusting in my own learnings,
(34:16):
you know, that five years rather than fiveminutes, I felt so much better and I was
able to kind of accept incoming stuff, bemore flexible, et cetera.
I've had a Billy Joel song stuck in myhead for the last few months.
It's Vienna.
And at some point he says, slow down,you're doing fine.
(34:40):
And then another point, so down, you're soambitious for a juvenile.
And I think it's just so interesting thatmy brain is playing those songs back to me
and really realising that so manydifferent things, but number one,
patience, number two, trusting yourselfand kind of just letting it be has really
(35:02):
helped me with my business.
Now we've all got an earworm.
I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
But you are forgiven.
It's a nice earworm.
I can think of others that I would notwant to have, but that's a lovely earworm.
I won't say the others that I wouldn'twant to have because then everybody will
have that one too.
Beb?
(35:23):
Yeah, as Maria was speaking, what wascoming up for me was what I've learned
since leaving Henley.
And it's just that that's the beginning.
You've then got to go through the prep foraccreditation and build your business.
And it's a personal service that we'regiving.
offering to people.
So there's going to be people that gelwith you, that like you, and it's going to
be people that don't for a millionreasons, because our wiring is different.
(35:48):
And just coming to terms with all of thatand just, you know, accepting that and
working at the pace that you're at isreally important.
And I think for me, there was a learningthat it's not all go, go, go.
I've still got a hill to climb here.
And just being OK with that and where I amin the journey.
And it all takes time.
(36:09):
It's going to take the time it's going totake.
And not everyone will like us.
I made such a big mistake last night.
I decided to look on Goodreads.
I don't know why, to look at reviews tosee if I'd got any reviews on Goodreads.
So it was stupid.
They were all amazing, apart from one.
(36:30):
There were 60 reviews.
And one of them was not nice.
Well, it wasn't that horrible.
But of course, which one do I, which onedo I go to bed with?
I don't go to bed with the other 59.
I wake up at two o 'clock this morningthinking about what this review had said.
But I think it's a really importantlesson, isn't it, to remember that we are
(36:55):
offering a personal service and it's goingto be absolutely spot on for some people.
And for some people, it or we are not theright fit.
And that's okay.
Yeah.
But I just want you to know that we're allhuman and it still hurts.
So what do you wish you'd learnt in yourtraining?
(37:21):
that you know now.
Penny.
I think I'm going back to the businesspiece.
Maria had mentioned to there's so manyfirst drafts that come with.
starting a business, especially as asolopreneur, is everything's new and
(37:44):
there's so much to learn and figure out.
And so it's much like that climbing thathill.
So having, I think that business componentwould have been helpful and maybe add some
(38:05):
more realistic.
expectations around it.
And, and the other thing is, you know,with social workers and those others in
the helping profession, you know, theyhave, I guess, a different, you know, I
(38:27):
guess, because they're the registered andsuch, you know, getting clients and stuff
is seems to be a much easier process,they're really in demand.
And I'm finding with, that we have here,like I'm involved with the International
Coaching Federation, it's a little bitdifferent because we're not necessarily,
(38:53):
you know, recognized by insurances andsuch.
So reaching out and finding those clientsor having those clients come to us, it's a
much slower process.
Yeah, and it, it's changing.
But it's changing very slowly.
(39:14):
So when I started out, nobody knew what acoach was.
Now people think they know what a coachis.
So that's change.
But one of the things that I noticed inthe UK now is that I'm in conversation
with a few people where they're working inthe health service and
(39:36):
And there are pockets of the healthservice which are recognizing that
coaching is a really important thing.
Small pockets, but it's beginning toshift.
But it's interesting when you use theexample of social workers, because people
are referred to social workers, aren'tthey?
Somebody else is in dialogue with somebodyand says, we need to get a social worker
(39:57):
in on this.
So the social worker doesn't have to doany marketing.
because that work automatically comes.
Like in the same way, if you have aproblem with your taps, you know you need
a plumber.
Whereas if you've got a challenge withyour life.
So yeah, and I really recommend Penny thatyou get yourself into some networks where
(40:19):
people are talking about those things.
There's a great podcast.
There's some podcasts with Sarah Short,which are worth going back to and
listening to.
And she talks a lot about them.
Also Keely Vuong -White and...
Keely's going to do something with us inthe community.
So I'll put some links in the show notesand send them out to you because there are
(40:41):
some good insights there.
Who else?
What do you wish somebody had taught you?
As you were talking Claire, something thatwas coming up for me was, people don't
(41:02):
usually go to the dentist unless they'vegot toothache, well, unless they're good
at doing their six monthly checks.
And with coaching, I kind of never seethat people kept fit with coaching on a
more continuous basis, but the realitythat I've learned is people look for a
coach when there's something they need tofix, that they're having trouble sorting
(41:23):
out themselves.
So there's this attitude towards coachingthat,
Say, for example, you're working towards agreat performance review.
Once you've got it, I don't need coachingnow.
I've got my good results.
There isn't the attitude that it'ssomething that we need continuously to
grow and to develop and to build.
So I think the way we market our coachingis important.
(41:45):
And that's something that I'm kind ofplaying around with at the moment.
Because we're not like a dentist.
You don't really just need to come to uswhen there's a problem.
Although you've just dropped a gem inthere and I don't think you noticed it.
What was it?
What if we were like a dentist?
(42:05):
What if we offered people regular sixmonthly check -ins so that they were
already on our books when they needed tocome for an emergency?
Well, that would be lovely, wouldn't it?
That would be the ideal.
But I think there's just this generalattitude.
that a coach or a therapist or a socialworker, you go to them when there's an
(42:29):
issue.
So what if you thought about the dentist?
I'm just throwing that out.
I mean, it was your thing, but I'm justreally interested about what that might
look like.
So I drive our relationship, sort of.
(42:51):
I drive three hours to go to a dentist whoI like.
Twice a year, I drive three hours to go tothe dentist.
And it's really important part of my life.
and then I don't have emergencies.
(43:12):
I just wonder if there's something inthat.
That's all.
something to reflect on, I think.
Yeah, yeah.
Because it's normal, right?
I mean, some people don't have a dentist.
Interesting.
So what was our question that we werethinking about?
(43:36):
What do you wish people had told you?
Kristin?
So this is a little bit of a pivot, but Iguess, so I'm not, perhaps as of now, as
brave as the rest of you in putting out myown shingle, so to speak, but thinking
about it.
(43:57):
And so because my...
latest role in the Church of England isinvolving actually coaching other priests.
I perhaps naively thought that could bepart of my training.
Until the brilliant supervision communityI went on, Coffee Morning, where two
(44:22):
amazing experienced coaches helped methink through the fact that something that
I'd already
twigged, which was this wholeconfidentiality issue with respect to the
fact that we are all reporting to the samekind of vicar and et cetera.
So anyway, I wish I had perhaps, I'm notsure I could have thought it through
(44:46):
before being in it, but I'm still workingthrough the boundary setting and whether I
am actually incorporating coaching toolsinto my job or whether I can actually be.
a coach and I'm sort of coming to theconclusion that it's more the former and
not the latter because of the inability totruly promise confidentiality.
(45:10):
I mean not withstanding safeguardingissues, we can't fully promise
confidentiality but and I will say thatthe training, the level one training has
been brilliant in making sure the masterclasses you've done on ethics Claire and
as well as the action learning set thatSue did has
you know, bubbled this up very clearly.
(45:33):
So I'm not sure it's a, I have had in thetraining, but I guess maybe I was a bit
naive to think that this job would besomething I could get my training hours
through.
So I might need to do the outside stuff inaddition to, and I haven't quite wrestled
with how to do that.
So we can perhaps have a conversationabout that offline.
(45:57):
great.
Thank you.
I would love that.
Emily.
There's something that I'm introducingmyself.
So I wasn't taught it per se.
So it's around the use of props andcreativity and which I absolutely love.
So I'm very much a creative person.
(46:18):
I like art.
And so what I introduce into my sessionsis the use of the prop somehow.
So I have a little flower.
It's one of the...
ones I use quite a lot, if you can seethat, which flops when it's not in such a
good place.
So I'm self -teaching, I suppose.
(46:40):
But it would have been wonderful if therewas some sort of session.
I mean, maybe there are coaching courseswhich actually cover that and the use of
the prop.
So I partially do my coaching online.
Partially, I've got a studio, which isalso my art studio.
So it's very much...
and the spur of the moment, I look aroundand see if there's something that will be
(47:02):
helpful in the conversation.
And it definitely creates those ahamoments when somebody is given a prop
which really supports their thinking.
And one example that I gave the other dayis that she felt like the weight of the
world was on her shoulders.
So I gave her this really heavy stack ofbooks that was very heavy and then a
(47:25):
feather.
And...
you know, she knew that her journey waswanting to go towards this, this feather,
this likeness and what that meant to her.
It's hugely powerful.
And as I said, I'm self teaching at themoment.
And it's something that, you know, Icertainly feel is adding something
different to my practice.
(47:46):
So we were talking about being commercialand having a unique selling point.
And that's something that I want to buildon in the market.
But maybe that's something that's slightlydifferent to.
to what other coaches are offering.
That's such a great example.
I call that change the medium.
Can I just make an offer, Emily?
Yeah, of course.
(48:06):
The art of that is just don't ever coachin an empty space and make sure that
they're never in an empty space becauseyou can use whatever is available.
Yeah.
So the most transformational thing that Ihave coached with in the last month is
this box of tissues.
(48:27):
Because I invited the person, they saidthey felt they were carrying a lot of
stuff.
So she said she felt heavy, so you gaveher some heavy books.
So in that moment, those books, you mightnever use those books again.
That's what I really love about what yousaid.
Because somebody else might never say thesame thing, but next time you can use
something else.
(48:47):
So just don't ever coach in an emptyspace.
But the person said that this thing isalways getting in the way.
So I said, what if you just put this thingjust for the moment to one side, let's see
what happens.
And my goodness, boom, everything changed.
I don't know what they moved, they movedsomething at their end.
(49:08):
So the art of that is never, ever, evercoaching an empty space because you always
need stuff which completely justifies thestate of my desk.
Penny.
I know, I justify mine.
Good, good.
Penny and then Maria.
I am just curious around that because Isee a lot of value in it and I'm curious,
(49:31):
you know, for when you're in a virtualenvironment, you know, and they might have
something on their desk and how do youpotentially, you know, work with props
when you're in a virtual capacity asopposed to in person?
Invite them and do the same thing at yourend.
(49:54):
and don't make a thing of it.
So that was it online.
I said, have you got some, it feels likethat thing's quite big.
How about we try just putting it down?
Have you got something big?
And they got something big and I justpicked the biggest thing up and I moved
it.
Because then I know how many thingsthey've got on their space, but I don't
(50:15):
need to know what it looks like.
So try it.
But the real art, Emily and Penny andeverybody,
The real art of using props is that theyhave actually told you what to use in what
they said.
And if you want to learn to notice that,then get yourself on practice coaching
(50:38):
places where you're not the coach andyou're not the thinker.
And you can simply notice what thethinker's saying because they have surely
told you.
We have a coaching practicum, which is lowcost, and that's a great place to do that,
because you get, I think, fiveopportunities to watch.
(51:00):
But what you're watching is you'rewatching the thinker thinking and not the
coach coaching.
Because it's so tempting, isn't it, indevelopment?
You watch the coach coaching, and youthink, that was a good question.
I'll have that one.
But actually, you have enough.
But the art is to watch the thinkerthinking, because that's where you do
really amazing development.
But she, you get that.
(51:21):
That great example, Emily, you told us,she told you to get the books.
And that's brilliant.
I can remember one residential wheresomebody said something similar.
And I did what you did.
I looked for the heaviest thing in theroom.
And this poor lady ended up standingholding this chair.
(51:42):
And of course, she said, I said, you'resaying it feels really heavy.
How about you pick up something reallyheavy?
So she picked up this massive chair andshe went, I can't hold it.
I said, well, what are you going to dowith it then?
And that was the unlocker.
So they will surely tell you.
And I just want to encourage you, Emily,be absolutely, totally radical.
Yeah.
(52:02):
Thank you.
What a wonderful thing.
Yeah.
Thank you.
I'm going to be even more crazy then.
Thank you for that permission.
We're coming to the top of the hour.
So can we just go to Maria?
and then we'll have to finish for now.
But I think the five of you are comingback, right?
(52:24):
It would be lovely to come back.
I was just thinking how lucky we were tohave a great grounding in how to be a good
ICF coach at Henley.
And I had a very lucky experience in thatmy tutors were Anne James and Adiola
Olidemi, who gave you this kind of...
appreciation of what coaching can do.
(52:47):
And I guess my learning, what I wish I hadknown back then, was how transformational
learning how to be a coach is for you as acoach.
It's such an incredible exercise inlearning about yourself, knowing yourself,
(53:08):
and you know, people journal their wholelives and still have...
a completely different experience when youcome to actually being a coach.
And that being a coach, those humanelements, you know, sometimes you have to
throw out all of your learning about howto be a great ICF, you know, accredited
coach and just be with the person.
(53:29):
So I did learn that, but I think thisconversation has really helped to
underline that for me about all thesewonderful things that we've all learned.
Yeah, amazing.
Learn your theories as well as you can andput them aside when you touch the miracle
of the living soul.
And you will still be staying within whatyou learned.
(53:52):
And you will, for you as an ICF coach, youwill still be staying within that, but it
will be held lightly.
So here's my suggestion as we finish.
I reckon that we need to have anotherconversation six months, another podcast.
Is that okay with everybody?
And Penny, we will have it in the daytimefor you.
(54:15):
Because listeners...
Penny has arrived at the coaching in inthe middle of the night.
Respect.
So thank you, everybody, for coming to thecoaching in today.
Emily Rapet, Penny van den Berg, FebroniaRuoco, Maria Fernandez and Kristin Brice.
Thank you, everyone, for listening.
And we will be back.
(54:37):
Thank you, Claire, for the space.
Thank you so much.
Thank you so much, Claire.
Bye.
Thank you.
Bye.
Thank you.
So bye -bye, everyone.
If you've enjoyed what you've heard today,we'd love you to share the podcast with a
friend or leave a comment on social media.
And if you'd like to become a regular atThe Coaching In, you can subscribe on
Podbean and all major podcast channels.
(55:00):
We look forward to welcoming you nexttime.
You've been listening to The Coaching In,3D Coaching's virtual pub.
For more information, check out 3dcoaching.com.
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