April 2, 2024 • 47 mins
In this eye-opening episode we engage in a thought-provoking discussion with Nathan Vanzeyl, a fervent advocate of critical thinking in education. Nathan lends his unique perspective as an involved member of Gays Against Groomers and president of the Turning Point chapter at the University of Missouri-Kansas City. With his experience navigating the shift from homeschooling to university education, Nathan illuminates the deficiencies in critical thinking that plague the public education system.
We delve into the pressing issues of the current educational landscape, from the pushing of queer theory and gender ideology in classrooms to courses forcing pronoun usage. With a significant focus on the importance of fostering creative and critical thinking skills in young individuals, this episode calls attention to the potential underdevelopment they have amidst typical public or private schooling environments.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
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Music.
(01:08):
Welcome to the Dark Side of the Rainbow.
Today we have Nathan Van Zyl, who is a Gaze Against Groomers chapter member.
He's also the president of the Turning Point chapter over at the University
of Missouri-Kansas City. So that's interesting.
(01:29):
How are you doing today, Nathan? I'm doing great. How are you doing? I'm fantastic.
Doing fantastic in Arizona, where I'm at.
How's the weather over there? You know, it has been freezing out for the past
few weeks, but now it's finally getting into the 70s and 80s.
It was beautiful outside today.
Okay, I love that. This is the end of March for anybody listening in in the future.
(01:54):
So the first thing
i want to ask you nathan is really what
is the temperature the room temperature for your generation when it comes to
matters surrounding the trans agenda so you know we get kids who are growing
(02:14):
up now from the very beginning with pronouns things like that you You, at 20 years old,
have come into this, and I don't know when the indoctrination sort of behavioral
stuff at school would have started, but I forget,
you are also homeschooled, so you were spared a lot of this.
So, how is it looking around at your peers and feeling on the subject?
(02:38):
Yeah. So, you know, I was homeschooled all through high school,
but ever since I was like right when I turned 16, I was out in the workforce.
I've worked jobs ever since then. So I have been around people pretty consistently
who have been my age, either in public school or in private school.
And obviously I'm around students here at my university. diversity
(03:00):
i would say the overall temperature is very
similar to how i see grown adults
are right now in that you kind
of have most people who i would say don't really like care
that much whatever you are if you're trans or not and
then you have your people who are like super extreme they want to shove this
(03:21):
stuff down your throat that's at least been my perspective so i have a lot of
friends who they really couldn't care less and think that these people out here
are trying to shove indoctrination down people's throats are ridiculous and crazy.
And then I've met people who are very much, you know, on the extreme end where
they think that's perfectly normal, totally okay.
(03:42):
Do you think that based on the current conditions of those who are very passionate
in support of what's happening, you think we're in a position where it's.
Going to become more violent or dangerous? I mean, how outspoken are these people?
I think it's been about where it is now. I don't see things getting violent.
(04:05):
I've done a lot of work on my campus, and I personally haven't had anyone be
super aggressive or anything towards me. I've had voices raised and everything.
But that being said, my campus is is also pretty apolitical.
So certainly there are campuses across the United States that get a little bit crazier.
(04:27):
But yeah, overall, I don't see things getting super violent or completely out of hand.
That being said, if we keep going down the road that we're going,
I could see that happening.
Well, on one half, that's a very big relief because, you know,
the tensions are high when people get very passionate about something,
feel very oppressed, and they're fighting against against the machine.
(04:49):
And, you know, they're in that, that stage of, you know, rebellion in a sense with the machine.
But yeah, when, you know, time goes on, we keep amplifying these things.
People's toes are going to be stepped on a little too much, not going to be
good. So he's going to punch back.
So when you are looking at the college campuses across the country and you're
(05:13):
looking at how heavy is this push?
Now, I'm going to use the term indoctrination because it really is being,
you know, these ideologies, the queer theory ideology,
the trans agenda stuff is really being pushed in at the elementary school,
middle school, high school levels, but especially at the college level.
(05:36):
So, you know, based on your overview and the current situation.
What kind of workforce can we expect in the next 20 years?
You know, it all depends on your degree program. So I'm not,
you know, I'm not 100% sure how, you know, every single university is set up.
But at least from my experience, the university as a whole has not pushed anything
(05:59):
down every student's throat, for example.
But we definitely do have degrees that require you to take classes that are
very much like, I believe we have a queer theory class. class.
I know we have a lot of classes that are very much along the lines of that,
that if you're in those degree programs, you're taking them.
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They're mostly in the School of Political Science and the School of Criminal Justice.
Those are the two areas I would say the most amount of people are taking classes like that.
I personally have been able to avoid most of it.
And just Just overall, from my experience, I have not had too many times where
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I have heard any sort of like indoctrination or anything like that.
I have definitely spoken to people who have taken more classes that are centered
around that where it's a much heavier influence on them.
I'm really glad that you made that differentiation because there are a lot of
people that would say, hey, this isn't happening in schools.
(07:06):
And, you know, the fact is it might not be happening all day, every day.
And like you said, it may not even be happening in many different classes.
This could simply be class or issue based phenomena when this occurs.
So I wonder, before going more in depth in that direction, do you think this
is more based on the kind of teacher who's teaching the class or is it more
(07:29):
subject based? You're going to run into this?
I think it could be an either or.
I would say that if you have a teacher or professor who is passionate about
these topics, they're going to find a way to inject them into their curriculum one way or another.
I've definitely been in classes. I've taken a number of business classes,
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and we've definitely heard certain things about the trans issues and everything in our classes.
It hasn't been a super heavy influence, but if you have a professor who is passionate
about those topics, they'll find a way to work it in.
But there are definitely situations where it is curriculum based.
(08:13):
And if you have, you know, a program director or something who feels very passionate
about this, they'll find a way to put that into the curriculum that then,
you know, associate professors are teaching.
Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. So do you feel at all on campus?
Now, this college is going to be different than many other colleges.
Do you feel like there's any sense of forced speech or the forced use of pronouns?
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Do you guys have policies or any sort of system to demerit somebody who doesn't use trans pronouns?
So when it comes to forced speech, I'm not totally sure what the bylaws of the
school show. I haven't heard anyone personally getting demerits or anything because of that.
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I also, you know, I'm not 100% sure what the actual...
Programs in place for the school are in terms of that. I'm not sure if they
exist or not in my school. I've certainly heard them at others.
But just from my experience, having done stuff with Turning Point,
the administration here is fairly open to having us at least exist on campus.
(09:28):
Like we haven't gotten pushback or anything from the administration.
We've held events or anything. So I would say that we're a bit more open to
that because I've certainly heard the universities where turning point chapters
have either been shut down by the university or they haven't been allowed to
get started for whatever reason.
So in terms of actual policy that compels speech, I would lean towards we probably don't have that.
(09:54):
Is it implied or is it suggested that you should? Absolutely.
I've done so many university programs where, you know, we go around the room
and say, oh, what's your name? What are your pronouns?
And things like like that and i tend to just skip over the pronoun
part like if you're if you're looking at me and you think anything other
than a man like i'm i'm sorry like i'm not i'm not giving you my pronouns
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but yeah nothing nothing that forces as far as i know but i could be wrong i
think it's really good you know i know i'm asking very leading questions as
though like i'm looking for something very specific and you know what i'm looking
for it's the same kind of phenomenon that's happening all all over the place.
But I think this is a really good point that you can find a school where you're
(10:41):
not necessarily going to be bombarded with all that.
And so props to you and the University of Missouri, Kansas City for at least
still giving you some breathing room there.
Because it's not like that everywhere.
So you do a lot of political work. And as you know, it's engaged against group
(11:01):
of members. We're an apolitical organization.
However, this is a highly politicized issue, even though it really shouldn't
be. It should be common sense, but it's all of the,
aspects of clean wholesome living seem to fall on one side of the aisle and
do whatever you want let your freak flag freak flag flies on the other side
of the aisle so with your work in the young.
(11:26):
Young americans federation yaf is that correct did i get that right so i'm not
with yaf yaf and turning point are totally separate why did i say i don't know
why i said that sorry we're gonna cut Cut that out.
For some reason, I thought you were with YAF. I don't know why I kept thinking
that. No, Turning Point and YAF have a lot of beef between them.
(11:47):
Okay. Well, I know they're different. I just had the acronym in my head,
and there was somebody else.
I'm technically a member of YAF, but we don't have a chapter here on my campus.
So Turning Point's the only conservative group on my campus.
Oh, you know what? Maybe I saw that on one of your profiles.
That's why. And our YAF chapter lead for Arizona has always contacted me, too.
(12:11):
So for some reason, I got that over highlighted in my head. Okay,
so let's go back to action.
So you were homeschooled. You come out into the wild world of youth who are
now in college, and you're seeing differences between yourself,
your homeschooled friends, and the product of the public school system.
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What are the most urgent takeaways that you want to send back to parents of
kids in the public school system as to red flags?
Well, you know, being homeschooled, you know, my education was obviously very
unique, but just in my college life, I did about a year and a half of community
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college before I actually went to university out here. So I kind of have both perspectives.
I've been around a lot of students. You know, I'm going to my junior year,
so I've had plenty of classes at this point.
I would say my biggest takeaway from looking around at my peers is how clueless they can be sometimes.
I know that's kind of harsh to say, but the public school system does not teach
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students enough critical thinking skills and enough actual world experience stuff.
So like, for example, you know, my education was absolutely amazing.
I got out all the time and we would go to science museums and art museums and
we'd go to all sorts of different like museums and everything. thing.
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We were always doing, you know, different stuff. When I came to my education,
it was not, I was sitting in a room for, you know, five plus hours a day,
just learning stuff out of a textbook.
We were doing so much more like real world experience and a lot of critical thinking stuff.
We would play games throughout the day. So just overall, when I look around,
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you know, I'll be sitting in a class and all
of our professors lecturing and he will say
something something that I think is totally obvious or apparent
and there will be five people in the room who all
have questions about it and it's one of the most basic questions I
have heard now that could say something towards me
(14:21):
just understanding material more but I found that across the board where I've
just seen like I feel like this is just an obvious answer to this question and
seems like all of you are very confused on this for some reason so I don't know
if that makes sense or not but I can give you some examples two of you want to.
No, you know, I have seen that phenomena occur. I am a student of the public
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school system, a product of the public school system.
And I noticed a lot of my personal mental psycho-spiritual development didn't
happen until I left school, at which time I looked back at the things that I
had produced, things that I had written.
And I was like, oh, my gosh, you know, they're really you really do have to
develop your own consciousness, conscious awareness, critical thinking skills
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like you were just mentioning.
Questioning and and you're right the schools are turning
out parents you know workers
you know people who are not
able to evaluate their own
thinking process and think critically about it and question
authority and stuff like that yeah what
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one other thing i wanted to add to that too as i was just thinking about
it is i would say just overall like
creativity too has really been
stomped out of a lot of these kids coming out
of the public school system and even private school
I'd say to an extent because you know obviously I'm in a class I don't know everyone's background
but just like looking around I happen
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to be a student who is in a design school so we
do a lot that has to do with just being creative and putting ideas together
and you know looking around I found that it's really hard for a lot of these
people and you know I think that's It's really sad that it seems like we're
(16:08):
stomping creativity out of people.
And it also has to do with critical thinking to just being able to put ideas
together. So that was just one other thing I wanted to add to that.
Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
When it comes to, you know, Gag's mission is to protect children,
protect them from the indoctrination, sexualization, mutilation,
(16:31):
or medicalization that is being foisted upon them in the name of LGBTQIA plus inclusiveness.
And there is an overbalancing. Okay, this is the nicest thing you could possibly
try to say about this phenomena.
There's an overbalancing of the so-called, you know, as we record this,
(16:53):
actually, this is both Easter 2024,
and this is trans visibility,
day of visibility, according to our government.
Don't forget that. That's very important.
Yeah. Yeah. Now, to be fair, Easter floats around depending on the cycles of the moon,
(17:13):
but that this March 31st happens to be the first day of our government initiated
day of trans visibility is kind of interesting.
And I think it puts a lot of people at cross purposes at a time like this.
But what I'm getting at is you're looking at the system, you're still,
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You're just 20 years old, so you're older than you were, so we'll give you credit for that.
But you're still young compared to most of the dinosaurs roaming this earth
right now. Still a little child.
But you're closer to the beginnings, the origins, or what the kids are into
right now, even though you're still out of the loop out of a lot of that, having turned that age.
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So, looking at the media influences for the generation beneath you,
what do you think is going to have the biggest impact on the ideological stance
of this next generation?
Not talking anymore. You know, my generation, we don't watch cable news.
(18:23):
That's, I haven't met one person that really watches cable news like that.
Everyone who's like around my age is getting their information from,
you know, YouTube, from being on Twitter, from just being online in general.
And that's one of the big missions from Turning Point just in general is talking with students.
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So when I'm out on my campus and we're doing a table, my goal is not necessarily
to shove an ideology down someone's throat.
My goal is to get people who disagree with us to come over and have a conversation
with them. And that's been the biggest thing that I think that I've just noticed
overall is people don't talk to each other anymore.
(19:07):
They only stay on one side of the aisle or the other. They only listen to people who agree with them.
And that gets to be really dangerous because you forget about people's worldviews.
You have to have conversations with people about hard topics to understand where
people are coming from. them.
That's why we have people online now who just chomp down on your throat whenever
(19:28):
you say something that's slightly out of line and immediately call you a transphobe
or a homophobe or you have internalized homophobia or all these different names.
It's like, hold on. We're just having a conversation here.
This isn't something that we need to get all emotional about and start calling people's names.
If you don't like something I said, ask me why I said it. Ask me why I think
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the way I do, don't just all of a sudden assume things about me.
So just that loss of just general conversation, I think is really going to be
detrimental to people going on board. Yeah.
You know, I was having a conversation last week with the based mother.
And one of the things that we kind of touched on is, you know, they made.
(20:13):
Religion and politics, you don't talk about them at the dinner table.
You don't do it. It's considered rude.
And at the same time, we know that most of this country embraces this whole
God and country sort of prioritization.
And but we can't we don't know how to talk about
either subject and of course it's not the the mission of
(20:33):
this particular program to talk about religion
or politics per se but we are talking about things that pertain to morality
and we're talking about things that pertain to law and the the country and the
culture cultural marxism things like that that overlay those those subjects.
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So we can't help but refer to that.
And so I think to myself, well, if the youth already have been taught,
A, it's impolite to talk about these things.
B, they have not grown up with the knowledge of these things because we're raising
ourselves up on YouTube and things like that, which isn't to say you can't get
valid information from there, but we're missing those those foundations.
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And they're really like built into a person, don't you think?
Like, like they're like pillars of your own psychology to know where you stand.
Invisibly as a person and a moral world order, if you will.
And then like, you know, your, your patriotic spine and, you know,
the care of your community.
So I wonder what, what can be done?
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And you've already said that we need to be holding a conversation,
which is what you have been doing with Turning Point.
We're doing that now. We're holding conversations with people.
In a school setting, in a large group setting, how do you think this conversation
around this subject would look?
And how could we agree to disagree? Because right now it seems like there's
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no room for disagreeing.
Well, I think that there's a couple ways that it
has to be done you know obviously i i'm
doing my part just as a college i'm doing what i can on my
campus talking to people my age if you are someone
who has a family you need to be talking to your kids and having conversations
and explaining to them why people believe what they do on either side that was
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something that was always happening in my family was you know We have our beliefs and viewpoints,
but it was never discouraged to be like,
oh, why do you think this way?
Why does someone else disagree with these viewpoints? Go and understand what that is.
And I've at least found personally through going and investigating more into
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why people who I might disagree with think the way they do.
I have definitely thought differently about certain things I believe in.
I've held conversation a little differently based on that.
But it has to be one person at a time.
I mean, it's super hard to get people out of this because it's kind of a cult mindset.
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When you shut yourself off from the world and you only listen to one side of
the aisle and you never consider anyone else's viewpoints, you're kind of in
this group think philosophy.
And that's what I see so much from just the trans and the TQ plus people out
there is they assume that everyone in the community, quote unquote.
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Thinks the same way they do.
I've had so many arguments with people online who assume that because of my
sexuality or because of the way that I am,
I think just like everyone else, you know, they consider that because I'm a
part of Turning Point, I believe in every single thing that everyone else in
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Turning Point is associated with, which isn't true.
Or that because I'm gay, I believe in what every other gay person out there
or everyone in the LGBTQ plus mine divide my sign community thinks, which also isn't true.
So it's just, you know, getting to the root of people and being able and telling
them that you have to have conversations with people. You have to listen to what someone else says.
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And calling someone names isn't going to do anything. And assuming that someone
thinks something that you have no reason to believe they do,
that's totally wrong and you shouldn't accuse them of stuff like that. Yeah, absolutely.
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Some profound revelation about like the hypocrisy
of their thought oh most certainly i have been doing tables pretty consistently
since about fall of last year and at pretty much all them that we've had we've
always had someone that has come over who has been.
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Very passionate and loud about their
position in disagreement with us so we'll do
oftentimes we'll do like i'm gonna change my mind about
like a certain issue so it'll be like change i i believe
this change my mind basically so it encourages people to
come over and have a conversation right so we
usually have you know one person who's very passionate
(25:51):
about their position i i don't care
about changing their mind their mind isn't going to be changed but because they're
passionate and loud about it they start to attract a crowd
and we'll have you know seven or eight people kind
of come around just watch what's happening and just
listen in to our discussion and after they leave
we usually have a couple of them come over and be like wow you know i i heard
(26:13):
you say x y and z i had i hadn't considered that before that was really interesting
or you know i heard this person say you know this thing and i heard you say
this as your response could you explain more about that to me?
Or could you tell me why that is? And one thing you have to know about me too,
is I shall do this thing prepared.
People assume that I just walked
(26:35):
out of class one day and sat down at this table. No, I have my numbers.
I always have a cheat sheet with me. I have data in front of me that I can give
right to you if you have questions about it.
I don't get out and just talk out my butt.
I have data to back me up and I'm able to pull that out when people do have
have questions about it.
So yeah, I've definitely had many times where people have come over and had
(26:59):
actual civil conversations with me about whatever topic we're talking about
and learn something. Okay, awesome.
That's really good. And that goes back to the point of we need to be communicating
with people who we disagree with if we're not going to let the media drive the
narrative about about what's going on on the other side.
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So I want to get more of your feedback, you know, specifically,
yes, you're a youth, you're living in the heat of the moment with all of your
peers on these very controversial subjects.
And so much of what Gays Against Groomers really stands for is trying to protect
children before they get to this point, to this point where you're at, in particular,
(27:43):
before they're let out of the cages with the other wild dogs to be tainted by society.
So I guess what I want to know is what kind of revelations that we've talked
about talking, communicating, and I get it, that's, you know,
we can't hold people down and force them to say what we want them to say.
(28:03):
So conversating is the fair way to handle that.
What else would you suggest should be done for this next generation in order
to head off the negative effects of the policies that are coming into place?
Do you see anything in particular, or is it just the fight? We need to go have the conversation.
(28:24):
We need to go to the school board meetings. We need to change the policies.
You know, if you're asking me, Nathan, what would you do if you had complete
control of everything that's going on in the world?
Number one, you need to completely tear down and rebuild public education as
it is. It is a broken system.
It is not turning out students who are prepared to go into the world.
(28:51):
I think that there's a couple of things to back that up. Number one,
the fact that you have to be in school for four years to get a bachelor's degree
in this country is insane.
The fact that you have to take basic English, math, and communications classes
as general education for a university degree is ridiculous.
(29:11):
This is stuff that should be taught in high school.
There has been no general education class that I've taken that was not information
I learned in high school.
I got literally almost nothing out of any of them, which is why I did a lot
for me in college, because it's way cheaper that way. So I'm glad I didn't waste my money doing that.
But, you know, it's clear that if this is being expected in a university program,
(29:35):
you know, high school students that are going into these don't have those skills
yet. Otherwise, why would they be offering them?
So you have to completely rework the education system.
I think it's totally broken. And so that's that's for starters.
But I, you know, I think that I truly think that one of the number one reasons
(29:56):
why we're in this position that we are with our country the way it is now is
the fact that public education is completely got out of hand.
It's not the way that it used to be.
As a homeschooled person, and, you know, I've observed when I look at homeschooled
people, friends that I've had who have been homeschooled, they seem to,
(30:17):
you know, much more intelligent, they're much more present, they're much more aware,
and socially,
you know, present in a way that we don't see in schools.
You know, you sit down, you shut up, you be quiet, you're a zombie,
you do turn the work, and, you know, everybody's behaving a certain way.
So obviously, homeschooling is a pretty good option for a lot of people,
(30:42):
and I see a lot of people moving in that direction.
Do you think the public school's in danger of having a mass boycott if they
keep pushing these ideas?
I mean, if they manifest in a really bad way eventually, even worse than where
they're at, it's going to happen, right?
You know, I really don't, which I think is the sad answer to that,
(31:07):
because I don't think that enough parents in the United States right now really
care about their children's thorough upbringing.
I think that so many people look at their kids as just things that they've had,
just other people in their lives.
It was, I mean, there wasn't there like a study that came out not too long ago
(31:28):
that was like, you know, the average American parent only spent like one hour
of quality time with their kid a day or something like that. Like.
I just, I don't think that parents understand the implications of what they're
sending their kids into.
And, you know, I'm not sure if they genuinely really care all that much that
(31:50):
their kids are even in systems like this.
And i think that the deeper
issue is just kind of a cultural thing where we've
gotten to the point where we have
in a lot of households both parents are
working full-time full-time jobs they're just
not around that much to be with their kids and i'm not knocking people who work
(32:14):
full-time job you know if that's what you want to do that's you know perfectly
about the free country but But it was really instrumental in my childhood that as I was being raised.
I had, you know, one parent basically in the house at all times.
You know, I was very lucky that I was in a position where my dad could work
(32:39):
pretty much full time and provide for the family.
My mom would work nights doing, you know, jobs and stuff on her own.
But both my parents were around very
very often and i just
saw them for so many hours of the day and i think that was
really great for being raised but like
(32:59):
i said like i i don't know i like
to answer your question i don't think that public school is
in danger but i think that's sad that there's
not enough parents out there that are really willing to take a conscious approach
approach and be involved with their children's education the way that a lot
of people at least within our movement or people that are mostly you know associated with us will do.
(33:26):
Yeah, I know. As I was asking that, yeah, that occurred to me too. You're right. It's sad.
Even for all the parents who know about this, so many can't do anything about it.
Their financial circumstances prevent them from taking the hours off necessary
daily to do this teaching for their kids.
(33:49):
Or they just either plain agree or don't care with the ideology that's being spread.
And you know that goes a lot of it goes back to really just like being in disbelief
about the effect that that kind of information is going to have in the trajectory of their child.
It's just you know it's just a sensationalization of media outlets and activists
(34:11):
and it's not really happening it doesn't really matter there's nothing we can
do about it it's you know it's,
you know overblown but you know when you surround yourself with something every
single day and And people who are going out about it, it becomes part of your
vocabulary and your paradigm.
So, yeah, it is sad. I don't think it is going to get the school systems emptied anytime soon.
(34:34):
But, you know, that is really probably what should happen. If I had kids,
homeschool all the way, 100%.
That's what I would do. But I
don't. So with that said, Turning Point is a national campus organization.
How many campuses now?
(34:55):
Thousands, from what I understand. Yeah.
We have chapters at almost every, we have a chapter at basically every major
institution, major university in the country.
We also have high school chapters. So, you know, if you're a high school student,
you can start a turning point chapter at your high school.
(35:17):
That's a whole, you know, that's a whole wing of turning point.
But I would say for the most part, just from what I know, almost every like
if there's like a major college out there, you can think of there is probably
a turning point chapter there.
And where does Turning Point stand on these matters?
I mean, I have a pretty good idea, but from your perspective,
(35:40):
being involved with the organization, where are they at when it comes to this
type of indoctrination for kids in particular?
Particular well obviously you know i don't speak
for turning point you know i'm not an official representative of
them or anything i do run a chapter on my campus but i
can't speak for them as a nationwide organization but we
(36:01):
have lots of resources as campus presidents as you know campus orgs that you
know are very much against the indoctrination schools engaging with students
to To build their critical thinking.
So that's kind of like. I would say that kind of one of the.
(36:23):
Cornerstones of running a turning point chapter is you're very much encouraged
to go and talk with students and get them engaged in thinking about these topics.
So the other thing is our every single turning point chapter,
they're basically self run.
So my chapter, you know, we have chapter members who are part of our university,
(36:48):
and then we have a field rep.
And And the field rep oversees, you know, a region, but we don't get anything
from Turning Point as in like, you have to talk about these issues,
you have to talk about that issue.
We're free to pretty much talk about anything we want within reason.
So every chapter is slightly different.
(37:08):
But I would say that if anyone is wanting to know where Turning Point stands
on a matter, they should go and listen to Charlie Kirk.
He's pretty he's who runs the organization pretty
much anything that i would say he says is pretty
consistent with what the organization as
a whole is kind of built on so okay and
(37:32):
then gates against groomers how long have you been with gates
against groomers i got involved with the gates against
groomers last fall right around the time
i guess it was october 2023 and it
was was right around the time of the worldwide rally
that went on and i had known about
gays against groomers since it was either
(37:54):
i think it was 2021 when florida had the whole like don't say gay bill thing
that was going on i heard about the organization around then but i kind of forgot
that they existed and funny enough it was actually um i was actually on a call
with another turning Point chapter that Chris Barrett, who runs our Missouri chapter,
he was speaking on, talking about the organization with that chapter.
(38:18):
And I remember, I was like, oh, yeah, I had heard about this organization before.
And after the call, I talked with Chris. I was like, hey, I'd love to become
a member and everything, blah, blah, blah.
And we just kind of went through that whole process.
That's awesome. Cool. So, well, I guess you have any Any other parting advice,
(38:39):
information, things that you've learned that you want to share real quick before we go?
You know, I would say that one of the biggest things I've seen from people just in general.
Whenever we're talking about, you know, indoctrination within schools or just,
you know, political things in general, is people are very scared to talk about these topics,
(39:04):
especially if you're on the side of you don't want indoctrination in school,
which, you know, you would think that would be a winning position,
but people are against that for some reason. I don't know why.
But either way, people are scared to come out and talk about that.
People are scared to go to their school boards.
You know, I've talked with a lot of parents and they're like,
(39:25):
oh, yeah, I know that such and such thing is happening inside our school district
or is happening, you know, with our kid or whatever. But they're like,
I don't want to go and talk in front of the school board.
You know, they're scary. They're a big board of people who've been elected and everything.
Or I don't want to go to my city and testify. I don't want to go to the state
capitol. That's why whatever it is.
And it's just you know they're they're scared to do it and my
(39:47):
advice is you know if you
see something wrong with the world like you have to be the one to fix it like
you cannot rely on other people to to go about on their own that's been you
know a big thing for me that's why i do stuff with turning point is because
i want more students on college campuses to be engaged in meaningful meaningful conversations.
(40:09):
And no one else is going to do that unless I'm there doing it.
I have to be the physical person there having those conversations.
Otherwise, no one's going to do it. So if you have a kid in a school,
if you see something that you don't agree with in the world,
you have to go and do something about it. You cannot rely on other people to do it.
(40:30):
Gays Against Groomers is a great organization.
And it's great that we have members that go and.
But we can't be everywhere. We can't be at every single school board,
every single school district across the country. There's thousands of those.
So you have to be the person showing up. You have to go and talk to them.
(40:53):
Don't be scared. Be brave. Go out and actually do something about it if you
want change to happen. happen. I hate people who sit around and they complain about any issue.
It doesn't even have to be indoctrination with side schools,
but any issue just in general.
And they sit around, they complain
(41:13):
about it, but they're not willing to go and do something about it.
If you see something wrong and it's bothering you, go and do something about
it. Don't just complain about it.
So that would be my biggest advice.
Just be brave, get some confidence, go on
and do something we are a country that is
set up to hear public
(41:35):
voices every single system in our
country has been designed on principles that us
as citizens can make meaningful change and go and talk to elected officials
go and talk to just people in general every single system is set up for that
go and take advantage of it go and use it i love that you said all that that was That was so amazing.
(41:58):
So here's my takeaways from what you just said. And one of the biggest parts
at the beginning that I think is so important, and I know you didn't say this
verbatim, but this is essentially what I got.
And that is run with lions, not with sheep.
Because one of the things you were saying is like, hey, you got to get brave.
You need to go out and just do something.
And when you're starting out in this whole thing, when you're just becoming
(42:21):
aware, when When you were like already just like a complacent,
nice little sheeple sitting there, getting up and going out is like a big deal.
Like you're going to go out and get yourself into trouble.
You're going to step in the crap at the wrong time, right out the gate.
If you start hanging out with people who are actively contributing to society,
who are going to school board meetings, as a matter of fact,
(42:44):
if you were hanging out with them, eventually you're going to become,
what do you say, like the average of your five closest friends.
So they're going to start showing you, you know, so you can,
if you don't have any friends in that way, get involved with an organization
like Gays Against Humors or whatever.
And you'll be around people who will start to encourage you,
to show you how simple it is.
You'll see how regular people just like you are doing these extraordinary things
(43:08):
and you realize, hey, they can do it, so can I.
And like you were saying, go out and get yourself some confidence.
Well, that comes with like get out of your comfort zone a little bit and then
see the good things that happen to you when you go out and speak the way you feel is going to be good.
The reaction you get from people is going to be encouraging.
(43:29):
And and I think that goes back to something else that you had said, too.
Which I can't remember, but it was basically a line, the same line.
So, oh, yeah, you know what? The showing up part.
If you just show up, people don't realize, like, it seems like a crowded field
and almost anything like you're looking into online.
It's because the cameras are meant to, like, wide angle, make things look busy,
(43:54):
sensationalize or focus on one thing.
But when you get out there on site, like what you're doing, when you're engaging
with people at these meetings, sometimes you'll see that you're really like
the one in a million who showed up.
You might be the one in 100,000 or, you know, one in 100,
whatever the statistic is, it's still you are a very special person compared
(44:18):
to that huge number that you come out of because not like you said,
not everybody has what it takes, the will, the desire,
the courage, the passion to go and speak on these subjects.
And that brings me to the final thing you said, which I think was amazing.
It's true. This country is built up on public speaking opportunities.
(44:40):
That's what our local government is for. Like, go and speak at your town council,
go speak at your school board, go run for an office.
Is like you read our founding our documents the constitution bill of rights
and declaration of independence and it's to be completely filled by people like
us not by career politicians but by the man or woman watching or listening to
(45:03):
this right now so anyway i appreciate all that insight is there anything else
you'd like to say before we go.
I guess, you know, my final point on that kind of last thing I was talking about
is, you know, you have to be a changemaker.
You have to be the one person in the room who goes against the grain,
who asks the questions and doesn't go along with the herd.
(45:26):
You have to be the changemaker out there. And I get it. You know,
it's really hard. It's not easy to do. too.
But going and get involved in an organization and do something,
everyone is constantly looking for a hand.
And it might be that you do behind-the-scenes work for them.
(45:46):
I do behind-the-scenes work for Gays Against Screamers all the time.
That's one of my positions that I do.
And just because I can't be at every school board meeting, it's hard for me to get around.
I have very very limited time. I'm a full-time student, so I do what I can for the organization.
If you can set aside a couple hours every week to just go and do something,
(46:07):
show up for meetings, help behind the scenes, do something, you'll be contributing
to change one way or another.
Not everyone needs to be rah-rah in front of everyone, screaming and crying.
There's positions Positions everywhere. People need help.
So find an organization that you're passionate about.
(46:28):
Go and join them and just do something for them. You know, be a change maker in some way.
So I would say that that would be my final point on all that.
I love that. That's so awesome. Well, thanks for everything you're doing for
people on your campus, for America, for the gays and trying to separate out
(46:49):
from all of the crazy stuff, etc. etc.
And we wish you well, and hopefully we'll be seeing some cool content that you're
producing over in your school at some point.
And so that was a great, that was really nice talking to you.
Nathan means I'll. Thanks so much. Thank you. See you.
This episode of The Dark Side of the Rainbow is sponsored by us.
We wanted to let you know that we have a huge online store full of official,
gotta get the official, Gays Against Groomers merch.
Each purchase really helps us continue our fight, and it's also a great way
(00:23):
to spread an important message. So, check it out at shop.gaysagainstgroomers.com.
That's shop.gaysagainstgroomers.com. And to learn more about our organization,
donate to our cause, or get involved, just visit gaysagainstgroomers.com.
(00:44):
And if you're interested in sponsoring this program, please reach out at podcast
at gaysagainstgroomers.com.
Music.
(01:08):
Welcome to the Dark Side of the Rainbow.
Today we have Nathan Van Zyl, who is a Gaze Against Groomers chapter member.
He's also the president of the Turning Point chapter over at the University
of Missouri-Kansas City. So that's interesting.
(01:29):
How are you doing today, Nathan? I'm doing great. How are you doing? I'm fantastic.
Doing fantastic in Arizona, where I'm at.
How's the weather over there? You know, it has been freezing out for the past
few weeks, but now it's finally getting into the 70s and 80s.
It was beautiful outside today.
Okay, I love that. This is the end of March for anybody listening in in the future.
(01:54):
So the first thing
i want to ask you nathan is really what
is the temperature the room temperature for your generation when it comes to
matters surrounding the trans agenda so you know we get kids who are growing
(02:14):
up now from the very beginning with pronouns things like that you You, at 20 years old,
have come into this, and I don't know when the indoctrination sort of behavioral
stuff at school would have started, but I forget,
you are also homeschooled, so you were spared a lot of this.
So, how is it looking around at your peers and feeling on the subject?
(02:38):
Yeah. So, you know, I was homeschooled all through high school,
but ever since I was like right when I turned 16, I was out in the workforce.
I've worked jobs ever since then. So I have been around people pretty consistently
who have been my age, either in public school or in private school.
And obviously I'm around students here at my university. diversity
(03:00):
i would say the overall temperature is very
similar to how i see grown adults
are right now in that you kind
of have most people who i would say don't really like care
that much whatever you are if you're trans or not and
then you have your people who are like super extreme they want to shove this
(03:21):
stuff down your throat that's at least been my perspective so i have a lot of
friends who they really couldn't care less and think that these people out here
are trying to shove indoctrination down people's throats are ridiculous and crazy.
And then I've met people who are very much, you know, on the extreme end where
they think that's perfectly normal, totally okay.
(03:42):
Do you think that based on the current conditions of those who are very passionate
in support of what's happening, you think we're in a position where it's.
Going to become more violent or dangerous? I mean, how outspoken are these people?
I think it's been about where it is now. I don't see things getting violent.
(04:05):
I've done a lot of work on my campus, and I personally haven't had anyone be
super aggressive or anything towards me. I've had voices raised and everything.
But that being said, my campus is is also pretty apolitical.
So certainly there are campuses across the United States that get a little bit crazier.
(04:27):
But yeah, overall, I don't see things getting super violent or completely out of hand.
That being said, if we keep going down the road that we're going,
I could see that happening.
Well, on one half, that's a very big relief because, you know,
the tensions are high when people get very passionate about something,
feel very oppressed, and they're fighting against against the machine.
(04:49):
And, you know, they're in that, that stage of, you know, rebellion in a sense with the machine.
But yeah, when, you know, time goes on, we keep amplifying these things.
People's toes are going to be stepped on a little too much, not going to be
good. So he's going to punch back.
So when you are looking at the college campuses across the country and you're
(05:13):
looking at how heavy is this push?
Now, I'm going to use the term indoctrination because it really is being,
you know, these ideologies, the queer theory ideology,
the trans agenda stuff is really being pushed in at the elementary school,
middle school, high school levels, but especially at the college level.
(05:36):
So, you know, based on your overview and the current situation.
What kind of workforce can we expect in the next 20 years?
You know, it all depends on your degree program. So I'm not,
you know, I'm not 100% sure how, you know, every single university is set up.
But at least from my experience, the university as a whole has not pushed anything
(05:59):
down every student's throat, for example.
But we definitely do have degrees that require you to take classes that are
very much like, I believe we have a queer theory class. class.
I know we have a lot of classes that are very much along the lines of that,
that if you're in those degree programs, you're taking them.
(06:21):
They're mostly in the School of Political Science and the School of Criminal Justice.
Those are the two areas I would say the most amount of people are taking classes like that.
I personally have been able to avoid most of it.
And just Just overall, from my experience, I have not had too many times where
(06:43):
I have heard any sort of like indoctrination or anything like that.
I have definitely spoken to people who have taken more classes that are centered
around that where it's a much heavier influence on them.
I'm really glad that you made that differentiation because there are a lot of
people that would say, hey, this isn't happening in schools.
(07:06):
And, you know, the fact is it might not be happening all day, every day.
And like you said, it may not even be happening in many different classes.
This could simply be class or issue based phenomena when this occurs.
So I wonder, before going more in depth in that direction, do you think this
is more based on the kind of teacher who's teaching the class or is it more
(07:29):
subject based? You're going to run into this?
I think it could be an either or.
I would say that if you have a teacher or professor who is passionate about
these topics, they're going to find a way to inject them into their curriculum one way or another.
I've definitely been in classes. I've taken a number of business classes,
(07:53):
and we've definitely heard certain things about the trans issues and everything in our classes.
It hasn't been a super heavy influence, but if you have a professor who is passionate
about those topics, they'll find a way to work it in.
But there are definitely situations where it is curriculum based.
(08:13):
And if you have, you know, a program director or something who feels very passionate
about this, they'll find a way to put that into the curriculum that then,
you know, associate professors are teaching.
Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. So do you feel at all on campus?
Now, this college is going to be different than many other colleges.
Do you feel like there's any sense of forced speech or the forced use of pronouns?
(08:38):
Do you guys have policies or any sort of system to demerit somebody who doesn't use trans pronouns?
So when it comes to forced speech, I'm not totally sure what the bylaws of the
school show. I haven't heard anyone personally getting demerits or anything because of that.
(09:03):
I also, you know, I'm not 100% sure what the actual...
Programs in place for the school are in terms of that. I'm not sure if they
exist or not in my school. I've certainly heard them at others.
But just from my experience, having done stuff with Turning Point,
the administration here is fairly open to having us at least exist on campus.
(09:28):
Like we haven't gotten pushback or anything from the administration.
We've held events or anything. So I would say that we're a bit more open to
that because I've certainly heard the universities where turning point chapters
have either been shut down by the university or they haven't been allowed to
get started for whatever reason.
So in terms of actual policy that compels speech, I would lean towards we probably don't have that.
(09:54):
Is it implied or is it suggested that you should? Absolutely.
I've done so many university programs where, you know, we go around the room
and say, oh, what's your name? What are your pronouns?
And things like like that and i tend to just skip over the pronoun
part like if you're if you're looking at me and you think anything other
than a man like i'm i'm sorry like i'm not i'm not giving you my pronouns
(10:15):
but yeah nothing nothing that forces as far as i know but i could be wrong i
think it's really good you know i know i'm asking very leading questions as
though like i'm looking for something very specific and you know what i'm looking
for it's the same kind of phenomenon that's happening all all over the place.
But I think this is a really good point that you can find a school where you're
(10:41):
not necessarily going to be bombarded with all that.
And so props to you and the University of Missouri, Kansas City for at least
still giving you some breathing room there.
Because it's not like that everywhere.
So you do a lot of political work. And as you know, it's engaged against group
(11:01):
of members. We're an apolitical organization.
However, this is a highly politicized issue, even though it really shouldn't
be. It should be common sense, but it's all of the,
aspects of clean wholesome living seem to fall on one side of the aisle and
do whatever you want let your freak flag freak flag flies on the other side
of the aisle so with your work in the young.
(11:26):
Young americans federation yaf is that correct did i get that right so i'm not
with yaf yaf and turning point are totally separate why did i say i don't know
why i said that sorry we're gonna cut Cut that out.
For some reason, I thought you were with YAF. I don't know why I kept thinking
that. No, Turning Point and YAF have a lot of beef between them.
(11:47):
Okay. Well, I know they're different. I just had the acronym in my head,
and there was somebody else.
I'm technically a member of YAF, but we don't have a chapter here on my campus.
So Turning Point's the only conservative group on my campus.
Oh, you know what? Maybe I saw that on one of your profiles.
That's why. And our YAF chapter lead for Arizona has always contacted me, too.
(12:11):
So for some reason, I got that over highlighted in my head. Okay,
so let's go back to action.
So you were homeschooled. You come out into the wild world of youth who are
now in college, and you're seeing differences between yourself,
your homeschooled friends, and the product of the public school system.
(12:33):
What are the most urgent takeaways that you want to send back to parents of
kids in the public school system as to red flags?
Well, you know, being homeschooled, you know, my education was obviously very
unique, but just in my college life, I did about a year and a half of community
(12:54):
college before I actually went to university out here. So I kind of have both perspectives.
I've been around a lot of students. You know, I'm going to my junior year,
so I've had plenty of classes at this point.
I would say my biggest takeaway from looking around at my peers is how clueless they can be sometimes.
I know that's kind of harsh to say, but the public school system does not teach
(13:19):
students enough critical thinking skills and enough actual world experience stuff.
So like, for example, you know, my education was absolutely amazing.
I got out all the time and we would go to science museums and art museums and
we'd go to all sorts of different like museums and everything. thing.
(13:40):
We were always doing, you know, different stuff. When I came to my education,
it was not, I was sitting in a room for, you know, five plus hours a day,
just learning stuff out of a textbook.
We were doing so much more like real world experience and a lot of critical thinking stuff.
We would play games throughout the day. So just overall, when I look around,
(14:01):
you know, I'll be sitting in a class and all
of our professors lecturing and he will say
something something that I think is totally obvious or apparent
and there will be five people in the room who all
have questions about it and it's one of the most basic questions I
have heard now that could say something towards me
(14:21):
just understanding material more but I found that across the board where I've
just seen like I feel like this is just an obvious answer to this question and
seems like all of you are very confused on this for some reason so I don't know
if that makes sense or not but I can give you some examples two of you want to.
No, you know, I have seen that phenomena occur. I am a student of the public
(14:43):
school system, a product of the public school system.
And I noticed a lot of my personal mental psycho-spiritual development didn't
happen until I left school, at which time I looked back at the things that I
had produced, things that I had written.
And I was like, oh, my gosh, you know, they're really you really do have to
develop your own consciousness, conscious awareness, critical thinking skills
(15:06):
like you were just mentioning.
Questioning and and you're right the schools are turning
out parents you know workers
you know people who are not
able to evaluate their own
thinking process and think critically about it and question
authority and stuff like that yeah what
(15:27):
one other thing i wanted to add to that too as i was just thinking about
it is i would say just overall like
creativity too has really been
stomped out of a lot of these kids coming out
of the public school system and even private school
I'd say to an extent because you know obviously I'm in a class I don't know everyone's background
but just like looking around I happen
(15:48):
to be a student who is in a design school so we
do a lot that has to do with just being creative and putting ideas together
and you know looking around I found that it's really hard for a lot of these
people and you know I think that's It's really sad that it seems like we're
(16:08):
stomping creativity out of people.
And it also has to do with critical thinking to just being able to put ideas
together. So that was just one other thing I wanted to add to that.
Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
When it comes to, you know, Gag's mission is to protect children,
protect them from the indoctrination, sexualization, mutilation,
(16:31):
or medicalization that is being foisted upon them in the name of LGBTQIA plus inclusiveness.
And there is an overbalancing. Okay, this is the nicest thing you could possibly
try to say about this phenomena.
There's an overbalancing of the so-called, you know, as we record this,
(16:53):
actually, this is both Easter 2024,
and this is trans visibility,
day of visibility, according to our government.
Don't forget that. That's very important.
Yeah. Yeah. Now, to be fair, Easter floats around depending on the cycles of the moon,
(17:13):
but that this March 31st happens to be the first day of our government initiated
day of trans visibility is kind of interesting.
And I think it puts a lot of people at cross purposes at a time like this.
But what I'm getting at is you're looking at the system, you're still,
(17:35):
You're just 20 years old, so you're older than you were, so we'll give you credit for that.
But you're still young compared to most of the dinosaurs roaming this earth
right now. Still a little child.
But you're closer to the beginnings, the origins, or what the kids are into
right now, even though you're still out of the loop out of a lot of that, having turned that age.
(17:58):
So, looking at the media influences for the generation beneath you,
what do you think is going to have the biggest impact on the ideological stance
of this next generation?
Not talking anymore. You know, my generation, we don't watch cable news.
(18:23):
That's, I haven't met one person that really watches cable news like that.
Everyone who's like around my age is getting their information from,
you know, YouTube, from being on Twitter, from just being online in general.
And that's one of the big missions from Turning Point just in general is talking with students.
(18:45):
So when I'm out on my campus and we're doing a table, my goal is not necessarily
to shove an ideology down someone's throat.
My goal is to get people who disagree with us to come over and have a conversation
with them. And that's been the biggest thing that I think that I've just noticed
overall is people don't talk to each other anymore.
(19:07):
They only stay on one side of the aisle or the other. They only listen to people who agree with them.
And that gets to be really dangerous because you forget about people's worldviews.
You have to have conversations with people about hard topics to understand where
people are coming from. them.
That's why we have people online now who just chomp down on your throat whenever
(19:28):
you say something that's slightly out of line and immediately call you a transphobe
or a homophobe or you have internalized homophobia or all these different names.
It's like, hold on. We're just having a conversation here.
This isn't something that we need to get all emotional about and start calling people's names.
If you don't like something I said, ask me why I said it. Ask me why I think
(19:49):
the way I do, don't just all of a sudden assume things about me.
So just that loss of just general conversation, I think is really going to be
detrimental to people going on board. Yeah.
You know, I was having a conversation last week with the based mother.
And one of the things that we kind of touched on is, you know, they made.
(20:13):
Religion and politics, you don't talk about them at the dinner table.
You don't do it. It's considered rude.
And at the same time, we know that most of this country embraces this whole
God and country sort of prioritization.
And but we can't we don't know how to talk about
either subject and of course it's not the the mission of
(20:33):
this particular program to talk about religion
or politics per se but we are talking about things that pertain to morality
and we're talking about things that pertain to law and the the country and the
culture cultural marxism things like that that overlay those those subjects.
(20:54):
So we can't help but refer to that.
And so I think to myself, well, if the youth already have been taught,
A, it's impolite to talk about these things.
B, they have not grown up with the knowledge of these things because we're raising
ourselves up on YouTube and things like that, which isn't to say you can't get
valid information from there, but we're missing those those foundations.
(21:18):
And they're really like built into a person, don't you think?
Like, like they're like pillars of your own psychology to know where you stand.
Invisibly as a person and a moral world order, if you will.
And then like, you know, your, your patriotic spine and, you know,
the care of your community.
So I wonder what, what can be done?
(21:43):
And you've already said that we need to be holding a conversation,
which is what you have been doing with Turning Point.
We're doing that now. We're holding conversations with people.
In a school setting, in a large group setting, how do you think this conversation
around this subject would look?
And how could we agree to disagree? Because right now it seems like there's
(22:06):
no room for disagreeing.
Well, I think that there's a couple ways that it
has to be done you know obviously i i'm
doing my part just as a college i'm doing what i can on my
campus talking to people my age if you are someone
who has a family you need to be talking to your kids and having conversations
and explaining to them why people believe what they do on either side that was
(22:30):
something that was always happening in my family was you know We have our beliefs and viewpoints,
but it was never discouraged to be like,
oh, why do you think this way?
Why does someone else disagree with these viewpoints? Go and understand what that is.
And I've at least found personally through going and investigating more into
(22:55):
why people who I might disagree with think the way they do.
I have definitely thought differently about certain things I believe in.
I've held conversation a little differently based on that.
But it has to be one person at a time.
I mean, it's super hard to get people out of this because it's kind of a cult mindset.
(23:17):
When you shut yourself off from the world and you only listen to one side of
the aisle and you never consider anyone else's viewpoints, you're kind of in
this group think philosophy.
And that's what I see so much from just the trans and the TQ plus people out
there is they assume that everyone in the community, quote unquote.
(23:40):
Thinks the same way they do.
I've had so many arguments with people online who assume that because of my
sexuality or because of the way that I am,
I think just like everyone else, you know, they consider that because I'm a
part of Turning Point, I believe in every single thing that everyone else in
(24:00):
Turning Point is associated with, which isn't true.
Or that because I'm gay, I believe in what every other gay person out there
or everyone in the LGBTQ plus mine divide my sign community thinks, which also isn't true.
So it's just, you know, getting to the root of people and being able and telling
them that you have to have conversations with people. You have to listen to what someone else says.
(24:26):
And calling someone names isn't going to do anything. And assuming that someone
thinks something that you have no reason to believe they do,
that's totally wrong and you shouldn't accuse them of stuff like that. Yeah, absolutely.
(25:09):
Some profound revelation about like the hypocrisy
of their thought oh most certainly i have been doing tables pretty consistently
since about fall of last year and at pretty much all them that we've had we've
always had someone that has come over who has been.
(25:30):
Very passionate and loud about their
position in disagreement with us so we'll do
oftentimes we'll do like i'm gonna change my mind about
like a certain issue so it'll be like change i i believe
this change my mind basically so it encourages people to
come over and have a conversation right so we
usually have you know one person who's very passionate
(25:51):
about their position i i don't care
about changing their mind their mind isn't going to be changed but because they're
passionate and loud about it they start to attract a crowd
and we'll have you know seven or eight people kind
of come around just watch what's happening and just
listen in to our discussion and after they leave
we usually have a couple of them come over and be like wow you know i i heard
(26:13):
you say x y and z i had i hadn't considered that before that was really interesting
or you know i heard this person say you know this thing and i heard you say
this as your response could you explain more about that to me?
Or could you tell me why that is? And one thing you have to know about me too,
is I shall do this thing prepared.
People assume that I just walked
(26:35):
out of class one day and sat down at this table. No, I have my numbers.
I always have a cheat sheet with me. I have data in front of me that I can give
right to you if you have questions about it.
I don't get out and just talk out my butt.
I have data to back me up and I'm able to pull that out when people do have
have questions about it.
So yeah, I've definitely had many times where people have come over and had
(26:59):
actual civil conversations with me about whatever topic we're talking about
and learn something. Okay, awesome.
That's really good. And that goes back to the point of we need to be communicating
with people who we disagree with if we're not going to let the media drive the
narrative about about what's going on on the other side.
(27:19):
So I want to get more of your feedback, you know, specifically,
yes, you're a youth, you're living in the heat of the moment with all of your
peers on these very controversial subjects.
And so much of what Gays Against Groomers really stands for is trying to protect
children before they get to this point, to this point where you're at, in particular,
(27:43):
before they're let out of the cages with the other wild dogs to be tainted by society.
So I guess what I want to know is what kind of revelations that we've talked
about talking, communicating, and I get it, that's, you know,
we can't hold people down and force them to say what we want them to say.
(28:03):
So conversating is the fair way to handle that.
What else would you suggest should be done for this next generation in order
to head off the negative effects of the policies that are coming into place?
Do you see anything in particular, or is it just the fight? We need to go have the conversation.
(28:24):
We need to go to the school board meetings. We need to change the policies.
You know, if you're asking me, Nathan, what would you do if you had complete
control of everything that's going on in the world?
Number one, you need to completely tear down and rebuild public education as
it is. It is a broken system.
It is not turning out students who are prepared to go into the world.
(28:51):
I think that there's a couple of things to back that up. Number one,
the fact that you have to be in school for four years to get a bachelor's degree
in this country is insane.
The fact that you have to take basic English, math, and communications classes
as general education for a university degree is ridiculous.
(29:11):
This is stuff that should be taught in high school.
There has been no general education class that I've taken that was not information
I learned in high school.
I got literally almost nothing out of any of them, which is why I did a lot
for me in college, because it's way cheaper that way. So I'm glad I didn't waste my money doing that.
But, you know, it's clear that if this is being expected in a university program,
(29:35):
you know, high school students that are going into these don't have those skills
yet. Otherwise, why would they be offering them?
So you have to completely rework the education system.
I think it's totally broken. And so that's that's for starters.
But I, you know, I think that I truly think that one of the number one reasons
(29:56):
why we're in this position that we are with our country the way it is now is
the fact that public education is completely got out of hand.
It's not the way that it used to be.
As a homeschooled person, and, you know, I've observed when I look at homeschooled
people, friends that I've had who have been homeschooled, they seem to,
(30:17):
you know, much more intelligent, they're much more present, they're much more aware,
and socially,
you know, present in a way that we don't see in schools.
You know, you sit down, you shut up, you be quiet, you're a zombie,
you do turn the work, and, you know, everybody's behaving a certain way.
So obviously, homeschooling is a pretty good option for a lot of people,
(30:42):
and I see a lot of people moving in that direction.
Do you think the public school's in danger of having a mass boycott if they
keep pushing these ideas?
I mean, if they manifest in a really bad way eventually, even worse than where
they're at, it's going to happen, right?
You know, I really don't, which I think is the sad answer to that,
(31:07):
because I don't think that enough parents in the United States right now really
care about their children's thorough upbringing.
I think that so many people look at their kids as just things that they've had,
just other people in their lives.
It was, I mean, there wasn't there like a study that came out not too long ago
(31:28):
that was like, you know, the average American parent only spent like one hour
of quality time with their kid a day or something like that. Like.
I just, I don't think that parents understand the implications of what they're
sending their kids into.
And, you know, I'm not sure if they genuinely really care all that much that
(31:50):
their kids are even in systems like this.
And i think that the deeper
issue is just kind of a cultural thing where we've
gotten to the point where we have
in a lot of households both parents are
working full-time full-time jobs they're just
not around that much to be with their kids and i'm not knocking people who work
(32:14):
full-time job you know if that's what you want to do that's you know perfectly
about the free country but But it was really instrumental in my childhood that as I was being raised.
I had, you know, one parent basically in the house at all times.
You know, I was very lucky that I was in a position where my dad could work
(32:39):
pretty much full time and provide for the family.
My mom would work nights doing, you know, jobs and stuff on her own.
But both my parents were around very
very often and i just
saw them for so many hours of the day and i think that was
really great for being raised but like
(32:59):
i said like i i don't know i like
to answer your question i don't think that public school is
in danger but i think that's sad that there's
not enough parents out there that are really willing to take a conscious approach
approach and be involved with their children's education the way that a lot
of people at least within our movement or people that are mostly you know associated with us will do.
(33:26):
Yeah, I know. As I was asking that, yeah, that occurred to me too. You're right. It's sad.
Even for all the parents who know about this, so many can't do anything about it.
Their financial circumstances prevent them from taking the hours off necessary
daily to do this teaching for their kids.
(33:49):
Or they just either plain agree or don't care with the ideology that's being spread.
And you know that goes a lot of it goes back to really just like being in disbelief
about the effect that that kind of information is going to have in the trajectory of their child.
It's just you know it's just a sensationalization of media outlets and activists
(34:11):
and it's not really happening it doesn't really matter there's nothing we can
do about it it's you know it's,
you know overblown but you know when you surround yourself with something every
single day and And people who are going out about it, it becomes part of your
vocabulary and your paradigm.
So, yeah, it is sad. I don't think it is going to get the school systems emptied anytime soon.
(34:34):
But, you know, that is really probably what should happen. If I had kids,
homeschool all the way, 100%.
That's what I would do. But I
don't. So with that said, Turning Point is a national campus organization.
How many campuses now?
(34:55):
Thousands, from what I understand. Yeah.
We have chapters at almost every, we have a chapter at basically every major
institution, major university in the country.
We also have high school chapters. So, you know, if you're a high school student,
you can start a turning point chapter at your high school.
(35:17):
That's a whole, you know, that's a whole wing of turning point.
But I would say for the most part, just from what I know, almost every like
if there's like a major college out there, you can think of there is probably
a turning point chapter there.
And where does Turning Point stand on these matters?
I mean, I have a pretty good idea, but from your perspective,
(35:40):
being involved with the organization, where are they at when it comes to this
type of indoctrination for kids in particular?
Particular well obviously you know i don't speak
for turning point you know i'm not an official representative of
them or anything i do run a chapter on my campus but i
can't speak for them as a nationwide organization but we
(36:01):
have lots of resources as campus presidents as you know campus orgs that you
know are very much against the indoctrination schools engaging with students
to To build their critical thinking.
So that's kind of like. I would say that kind of one of the.
(36:23):
Cornerstones of running a turning point chapter is you're very much encouraged
to go and talk with students and get them engaged in thinking about these topics.
So the other thing is our every single turning point chapter,
they're basically self run.
So my chapter, you know, we have chapter members who are part of our university,
(36:48):
and then we have a field rep.
And And the field rep oversees, you know, a region, but we don't get anything
from Turning Point as in like, you have to talk about these issues,
you have to talk about that issue.
We're free to pretty much talk about anything we want within reason.
So every chapter is slightly different.
(37:08):
But I would say that if anyone is wanting to know where Turning Point stands
on a matter, they should go and listen to Charlie Kirk.
He's pretty he's who runs the organization pretty
much anything that i would say he says is pretty
consistent with what the organization as
a whole is kind of built on so okay and
(37:32):
then gates against groomers how long have you been with gates
against groomers i got involved with the gates against
groomers last fall right around the time
i guess it was october 2023 and it
was was right around the time of the worldwide rally
that went on and i had known about
gays against groomers since it was either
(37:54):
i think it was 2021 when florida had the whole like don't say gay bill thing
that was going on i heard about the organization around then but i kind of forgot
that they existed and funny enough it was actually um i was actually on a call
with another turning Point chapter that Chris Barrett, who runs our Missouri chapter,
he was speaking on, talking about the organization with that chapter.
(38:18):
And I remember, I was like, oh, yeah, I had heard about this organization before.
And after the call, I talked with Chris. I was like, hey, I'd love to become
a member and everything, blah, blah, blah.
And we just kind of went through that whole process.
That's awesome. Cool. So, well, I guess you have any Any other parting advice,
(38:39):
information, things that you've learned that you want to share real quick before we go?
You know, I would say that one of the biggest things I've seen from people just in general.
Whenever we're talking about, you know, indoctrination within schools or just,
you know, political things in general, is people are very scared to talk about these topics,
(39:04):
especially if you're on the side of you don't want indoctrination in school,
which, you know, you would think that would be a winning position,
but people are against that for some reason. I don't know why.
But either way, people are scared to come out and talk about that.
People are scared to go to their school boards.
You know, I've talked with a lot of parents and they're like,
(39:25):
oh, yeah, I know that such and such thing is happening inside our school district
or is happening, you know, with our kid or whatever. But they're like,
I don't want to go and talk in front of the school board.
You know, they're scary. They're a big board of people who've been elected and everything.
Or I don't want to go to my city and testify. I don't want to go to the state
capitol. That's why whatever it is.
And it's just you know they're they're scared to do it and my
(39:47):
advice is you know if you
see something wrong with the world like you have to be the one to fix it like
you cannot rely on other people to to go about on their own that's been you
know a big thing for me that's why i do stuff with turning point is because
i want more students on college campuses to be engaged in meaningful meaningful conversations.
(40:09):
And no one else is going to do that unless I'm there doing it.
I have to be the physical person there having those conversations.
Otherwise, no one's going to do it. So if you have a kid in a school,
if you see something that you don't agree with in the world,
you have to go and do something about it. You cannot rely on other people to do it.
(40:30):
Gays Against Groomers is a great organization.
And it's great that we have members that go and.
But we can't be everywhere. We can't be at every single school board,
every single school district across the country. There's thousands of those.
So you have to be the person showing up. You have to go and talk to them.
(40:53):
Don't be scared. Be brave. Go out and actually do something about it if you
want change to happen. happen. I hate people who sit around and they complain about any issue.
It doesn't even have to be indoctrination with side schools,
but any issue just in general.
And they sit around, they complain
(41:13):
about it, but they're not willing to go and do something about it.
If you see something wrong and it's bothering you, go and do something about
it. Don't just complain about it.
So that would be my biggest advice.
Just be brave, get some confidence, go on
and do something we are a country that is
set up to hear public
(41:35):
voices every single system in our
country has been designed on principles that us
as citizens can make meaningful change and go and talk to elected officials
go and talk to just people in general every single system is set up for that
go and take advantage of it go and use it i love that you said all that that was That was so amazing.
(41:58):
So here's my takeaways from what you just said. And one of the biggest parts
at the beginning that I think is so important, and I know you didn't say this
verbatim, but this is essentially what I got.
And that is run with lions, not with sheep.
Because one of the things you were saying is like, hey, you got to get brave.
You need to go out and just do something.
And when you're starting out in this whole thing, when you're just becoming
(42:21):
aware, when When you were like already just like a complacent,
nice little sheeple sitting there, getting up and going out is like a big deal.
Like you're going to go out and get yourself into trouble.
You're going to step in the crap at the wrong time, right out the gate.
If you start hanging out with people who are actively contributing to society,
who are going to school board meetings, as a matter of fact,
(42:44):
if you were hanging out with them, eventually you're going to become,
what do you say, like the average of your five closest friends.
So they're going to start showing you, you know, so you can,
if you don't have any friends in that way, get involved with an organization
like Gays Against Humors or whatever.
And you'll be around people who will start to encourage you,
to show you how simple it is.
You'll see how regular people just like you are doing these extraordinary things
(43:08):
and you realize, hey, they can do it, so can I.
And like you were saying, go out and get yourself some confidence.
Well, that comes with like get out of your comfort zone a little bit and then
see the good things that happen to you when you go out and speak the way you feel is going to be good.
The reaction you get from people is going to be encouraging.
(43:29):
And and I think that goes back to something else that you had said, too.
Which I can't remember, but it was basically a line, the same line.
So, oh, yeah, you know what? The showing up part.
If you just show up, people don't realize, like, it seems like a crowded field
and almost anything like you're looking into online.
It's because the cameras are meant to, like, wide angle, make things look busy,
(43:54):
sensationalize or focus on one thing.
But when you get out there on site, like what you're doing, when you're engaging
with people at these meetings, sometimes you'll see that you're really like
the one in a million who showed up.
You might be the one in 100,000 or, you know, one in 100,
whatever the statistic is, it's still you are a very special person compared
(44:18):
to that huge number that you come out of because not like you said,
not everybody has what it takes, the will, the desire,
the courage, the passion to go and speak on these subjects.
And that brings me to the final thing you said, which I think was amazing.
It's true. This country is built up on public speaking opportunities.
(44:40):
That's what our local government is for. Like, go and speak at your town council,
go speak at your school board, go run for an office.
Is like you read our founding our documents the constitution bill of rights
and declaration of independence and it's to be completely filled by people like
us not by career politicians but by the man or woman watching or listening to
(45:03):
this right now so anyway i appreciate all that insight is there anything else
you'd like to say before we go.
I guess, you know, my final point on that kind of last thing I was talking about
is, you know, you have to be a changemaker.
You have to be the one person in the room who goes against the grain,
who asks the questions and doesn't go along with the herd.
(45:26):
You have to be the changemaker out there. And I get it. You know,
it's really hard. It's not easy to do. too.
But going and get involved in an organization and do something,
everyone is constantly looking for a hand.
And it might be that you do behind-the-scenes work for them.
(45:46):
I do behind-the-scenes work for Gays Against Screamers all the time.
That's one of my positions that I do.
And just because I can't be at every school board meeting, it's hard for me to get around.
I have very very limited time. I'm a full-time student, so I do what I can for the organization.
If you can set aside a couple hours every week to just go and do something,
(46:07):
show up for meetings, help behind the scenes, do something, you'll be contributing
to change one way or another.
Not everyone needs to be rah-rah in front of everyone, screaming and crying.
There's positions Positions everywhere. People need help.
So find an organization that you're passionate about.
(46:28):
Go and join them and just do something for them. You know, be a change maker in some way.
So I would say that that would be my final point on all that.
I love that. That's so awesome. Well, thanks for everything you're doing for
people on your campus, for America, for the gays and trying to separate out
(46:49):
from all of the crazy stuff, etc. etc.
And we wish you well, and hopefully we'll be seeing some cool content that you're
producing over in your school at some point.
And so that was a great, that was really nice talking to you.
Nathan means I'll. Thanks so much. Thank you. See you.
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