Ep 34: Breaking Out of Corporate Life w/ Ashley Grace Jefferson

Thinking about leaving corporate America but not sure what it really takes? In this episode, Indra sits down with Ashley Grace Jefferson to explore the mental, emotional, and practical shifts involved in breaking free from the corporate system.

They unpack the culture and incentives of corporate life, address the fears and stigma around leaving, and discuss the logistical realities—from health insurance to financial planning—that often catch people off guard. Ashley and Indra share personal stories of doubt, courage, and resilience, highlighting the importance of community, support systems, and authentic identity when taking the leap.

Whether you’re dreaming of entrepreneurship, a career pivot, or simply choosing yourself over a paycheck, this conversation offers insight, encouragement, and actionable advice for making the jump and building a life on your own terms.

Key Takeaways:

• Recognize the mental and emotional shifts required to leave corporate life.
• Prepare for practical realities like benefits, finances, and pricing your work.
• Build community and support systems to replace what you leave behind.
• Embrace vulnerability, resilience, and the evolution of your authentic identity.
• Take the leap even if you don’t feel “ready”—your path will grow with you.

Join us and discover how to choose yourself, navigate uncertainty, and redefine what freedom and fulfillment mean in your career.

 

Useful Links:

• The Messy Middle Matters Merch: messymiddlemerch.com 
• The Messy Middle Matters Glossary: messymiddlematters.com/glossary  
• Feedback for The Messy Middle Matters: messymiddlematters.com/feedback 
• Ashley on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ashleygracejefferson/ 
• Ashley’s Website: ashleygracejefferson.com/ 
• Ashley’s Newsletter: startup-baddie.beehiiv.com/ 
• Ashley on Threads: https://www.threads.com/@startupbaddie 
• Indra on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/indrak/ 
• Indra’s Website: peopleprocessthings.com
• Indra’s Newsletter: peopleprocessthings.substack.com/
• Interview with Cindy Gallop (3 addictions): https://youtu.be/eAJu225PcQU?si=5HETDKxb62OmbL1w 

Episode Transcript

Indra Klavins (00:05):
Hi, I'm Indra, and I'd like to welcome you to
the messy middle matters, wheremy friends and I explore all the
twists, turns and challengesthat arise in the messy middle
of work. Hey, Ashley,

Unknown (00:17):
we're back. We're back, we're back. So today

Indra Klavins (00:20):
we're going to be diving into a big topic that's
both near and dear to my friendAshley. It's in my heart which
is breaking out of corporateAmerica.

Ashley Jefferson (00:31):
It's the mental, emotional, financial,
spiritual, all the shifts thathappen when you're thinking
about that. And welcome back. Idon't know if everyone will have
heard the last episode. If youwant to do a quick intro of who
you are, yes. Hi everyone. I amAshley. I was previously in
corporate for 10 years beforesaying enough. And I, as you'll

(00:57):
hear, decided to leave in May of2023 simultaneously, was getting
my NYU at MBA and graduatedliterally two weeks after
resigning. So that was alwayssuper fun. But now I am founder
of a company called Startupbaddie, where it's all things,
product, community and contentwith myself early stage founders

(01:21):
and medium sized companies. Andthen when I'm not doing startup
Batty, I am working in three afuture for community f3 stands
for founders, funders andfractional. So we do events
about education of thefractional talent model, but
also just bringing everyonetogether and jamming on

Indra Klavins (01:42):
different business topics. And all the
links will be in the show notes.So make sure that you can find
Ashley, if you want. You know,before we dig in, I think
there's some stuff that weshould talk about around the
corporate system. You know, it'slike corporate flash capitalist.
Like when people thinkcorporate, they think corporate,
they think of like enterprises,but like when I think of when I

(02:04):
in my my shortcut for corporateis, like, anybody who's offering
you a paycheck, it could be astartup, it could be anything,
because it's like, it's thesystem that we live in here in
the US, in Canada, beyond Iknow, we got a whole bunch of
listeners up north shout out tothem, Hey, the incentives and
hierarchies that shape behavior.And like, you know, there's lots
of things to unpack there. Butlike, for me, I always wanted to

(02:27):
shift and change the system fromwithin for really long time too.
Yeah, I did too,

Ashley Jefferson (02:34):
yeah. I thought that it was, you know, I
think we were talking about thisin preparation for this episode.
But like this is where Iunderstood what the word
systemic meant. You know, I feellike the word systemic came up a
lot in 2020. Is to give out,like racial inequities and

(02:54):
adjusted. And I feel like thatword seems so complex, right?
And then you're in corporate,and I understand how like
systems can just perpetuatethings, right? So I feel like
the biggest example of somethingbeing systemic in corporate is
you go into a new role, you'reonboarding and, you know, fresh

(03:16):
eyes, and you're asking aquestion about why you do
something, and someone is justlike, I don't know, that's how I
was trained to do it, and sothey just do it that way, right?
And that is, like, such a greatexample to me of what something
what it means for something tobe systemic, and why that's
important is because like, itrequires like, much more than

(03:38):
like, the effort of one person.It really requires, like, the
whole fabric and

Indra Klavins (03:42):
DNA of something to change. Yeah. I mean, I love
the fact that you're talkingabout corporations as systems,
because, like, and having thatframe of reference, I think for
a lot of people, it can be hardif you haven't, if you haven't
been exposed to certainteachings and so on and so
forth. Understanding, like,systemic racism is such a big
thing, so that is whatever. Butlike, when you're talking about

(04:03):
an organization, and like, Ilike to think about
corporations, like the earliesthires, I would say the third
hire. I used to have it higherthan that, but like, the third
hire, in my mind, if you have ifeverybody in that cohort, the
first three hires, looks,thinks, acts a certain way,
whether it's got went to thesame school, it doesn't have to

(04:25):
always be gender. Doesn't haveto always be race, but they're
all it becomes like a they alsotend to think the same way, yes,
and then the way that they thinktends to become the norm. And
then the people as they join,they adopt those behaviors,
habits, whatever it might beturns a phrase to be their own,
and that's how the system grows.It starts right there at the

(04:46):
very, very beginning, and when Irealize that that that's when it
started, and how entrenchedcertain things are into the
culture. Of organizations.That's what I was like, Oh, this
is what I can change. This iswhat I can't change. This is why

(05:07):
I can change it. This is why Ican't change it. It was just
really, it was an aha moment forme.

Ashley Jefferson (05:13):
Yeah, entrenched is probably like, the
best word. It just is so, yeah,it's so in

Indra Klavins (05:18):
there, stuck. And you don't really think about it
like, and to be clear, likethese things don't necessarily
have to be bad. They're justingrained, yes, right? They're
just part of that DNA. And youknow, it's, it's and when you
understand that like, and youunderstand what you can chant
change and what you can't changefrom the inside, and what you

(05:40):
might be able to change from theoutside, because corporations
can large ones. I was, I waspart of a company. They always
said, We don't want to be on thecrest of the wave. We don't want
to we don't want to be thebleeding edge. We don't be the
crest. We won't be right behindthe crest of the wave, right?
Once it's like, vetted justenough, right? And the crest of

(06:03):
the wave and that bleeding edgeof ideas and those nascent
things off that corporationsemulate, or stable organizations
emulate, usually come from theoutside.

Ashley Jefferson (06:13):
So, yeah, no, that I that that's aggressively,
yeah, at

Indra Klavins (06:19):
least that's honest. They were honest. I love
you know, can I tell you, it was

Ashley Jefferson (06:23):
so refreshing? Yeah, refreshing. I was about to
say, like, I don't think I hearof companies actually being that
honest. They were about wherethey want to go and how they see
themselves, like, fitting intothe bigger picture of their
industry, which is also justlike my issues,

Indra Klavins (06:40):
yeah, and it helps everyone. I mean, it's, it
helped everyone groundthemselves in what was possible,
yeah, and how far they wouldwant to stretch in that
particular moment, in thatparticular climate, what would
be acceptable, what would bedigestible, rather, what
wouldn't. But anyway, so that'sa little bit about that, you
know. But let's talk a littlebit about like that. You getting

(07:04):
into that moment when you madethe leap to go from inside to
the outside, like, all thethings that were going on for
you? Yeah,

Ashley Jefferson (07:11):
okay, let's talk about, I'll address that
also give a little context aboutlike, what led up to that
moment? Yes, like, so there wasjust a lot happening at once.
And really, let's call it like ait was probably like a multi
year stretch, right? So I joinedmy last company during covid By
November 2020, and so I hadjoined everything from home. And

(07:35):
during covid, I was goingthrough my own metamorphosis
where, like, I was reallystarting, it was really starting
to click to me that there wasanother way to live than to get
into the office as early aspossible and leave a little
late. Grind, grind, grind. And Iwas seeing all these other
things, like I was able to getmy laundry done, you know, the

(07:58):
week, not reserve it, but we getactivity in the same grocery
shopping. These sounds solittle, but like they are things
that take time throughout yourday to have to stack it all on
the weekend and not really havethat time to rest and recover. I
was it was really starting toopen my eyes. Oh, wait, there's
another way to live. And soimportant to know, I got

(08:22):
promoted during the pandemic, soI got out, ever stepping into
that, into an office. And thenall of a sudden, as many big
companies, they started to dothis, what they would call, I
hate acronyms. This acronym willforever, always give me PTSD,

(08:44):
but they called it rtto. Returnto the right.

Indra Klavins (08:48):
RCO was for us. It was only all the companies I
was that was one

Ashley Jefferson (08:52):
team the same. Well, they were calling it rtto.
And then they dropped a T,because I think all their
friends only had one tooclearly. And so then there was
this RTO push. And in my mind, Icould not conceptualize how you
were forcing me and my team backin the office. When I had

(09:14):
launched a major product fromhome, I had got promoted from
home. All the things that theytalk about, I get a like,
everyone's different. So maybesome people have, like, have to
be in the office a bit more.That's what they feel like. Kind
of sets them up the source,right? But for me, it just felt
like I achieved all this, and Ididn't step into an office. Why

(09:36):
are you now, like, forcing meback then it doesn't feel like
it's in good faith, right?Really didn't feel like it was
in good faith. And then the firmI was at, they were tracking us,
so like they would run reports,and I would get call from the
MD, why isn't so? And so on yourteam in I

Indra Klavins (09:58):
have key card tracking in the hall. Nine
Yards. And I think somecompanies are tracking in, some
companies are tracking in andout, yes, if you weren't in and
out over a certain like, if yourhours literally in the office,
weren't over a certain number ofhours, it was, it

Ashley Jefferson (10:12):
didn't count as a day in the office. Yes,
yeah. It was just, like, a lotof things. And I was like, Ah,
this is becoming too much. Andso everything was kind of
closing in on me. That projectthat I mentioned, that I had
launched, I launched from home.The goal posts on that kept
moving in order to get it to thewider audience, right. And the

(10:32):
goal posts on that kept moving,you know, I was in school, I
just, like kept increasingly. Itdidn't matter how I how much I
tried to give in terms ofshaping strategy, managing
uptown, it just wasn't changing.And it didn't matter how much I
I talked about it with seniorleadership. Didn't matter how

(10:53):
many solutions I brought likethey would buy into it and pivot
harder. It happened every time.Yeah, and so it got to the point
where at my peak, I would comeinto work, I would stare at the
computer, and like I would, Iwould so badly want to do work,
but I could, like, likephysically doing this part, and

(11:14):
then, like, it's never good whenyou start crying before work,
like feeling sick. Like I wouldfeel physically sick about the
fact that I had to go in, yeah,and so, you know, I had
therapists at the time. I wastalking to her, and there was
just one point where I was like,something has to change. It was

(11:35):
a Sunday. I was like, somethinghas to change. I can't do this
anymore. I sat down, locatedwhere all my money was totaled,
that up canceled some veryobvious subscriptions. Called my
parents and was like, Hey, Ican't do this anymore. I was
just like, crying so hard, and,you know, they backed my

(11:56):
decision. And I was like,including tomorrow, yeah. And I
walked in on Monday, May 1. Butyeah, I think

Indra Klavins (12:06):
I'm sure that that a lot of the pieces of what
you're talking about are soresonant, right? And I and I
think that one of the one of thethings I want to touch on is the
preparedness of it, right?Because it's not the I always
say, whenever I've left a joband I haven't had something like
literally lined up, like,sometimes literally, I get to

(12:26):
offer the next day after, youknow, whatever it might be. But
whenever I've left, people sayto me how brave it is. I'm like,
Okay, first and foremost, firstand foremost, it is a I
recognize the privilege I haveright because I have the
savings, I have that this, Ihave that not everyone has that.
And the other thing is, I don'talways think of it as brave. I

(12:50):
think of it as saving myself.

Ashley Jefferson (12:52):
Yeah, it's so okay. It's so interesting. You
bring up the word of bravespecifically, because everyone
will come to know, threads isone of my favorite. You love a
threads platform. I lovethreads. Like, I try to spend a
good amount of time on threads,but someone mentioned this,
where they, well, I guess wherethey mentioned we were a

(13:14):
business owner, and, you know,someone responded, Oh, you're so
great. Done that. And, like,basically the person's response
was like, No, this was justlike, what I needed to do, like,
there was no other option. And Ithink that to hear something
like that could probably soundlike, well, you mean, there was
no other option, but truly therewas no other option. It was

(13:37):
either continue to deterioratementally, physically and
emotionally, or leave. Thosewere the two options, and I
chose myself. I chose to leave,but I also now looking back, I
guess, chose the path that wasultimately more in alignment
with what I needed to be doingtotally. But being in alignment

(13:58):
also doesn't mean, like, theeasiest, busiest path, but I do
feel more at peace now than Iwas in corporate. And I think
that says

Indra Klavins (14:07):
something. And that's, you know, there are so
many buzz words right now, and Ican't even remember half of
them, because there's a new onethat came out, like, last month,
but like, and it was basicallyabout people. So we've heard
about quiet quitting, quietpromotions. Quiet that's the
quiet cracking. Yes, I'm like,I'm like, quiet cracking has
existed for ever, ages, forages, as long as I can remember,

(14:33):
because I was thinking I'm aperson who's very I very much
internalized stuff, and I'lljust suck it up and just grin
and bear it. And there's alsoreasons for that, but whatever,
like the quiet cracking thing.What you're talking about is
that quiet cracking, and it's,you know, the question that you
know you and I have askedourselves, and I'm sure others
have asked themselves, is like,when is when do I just choose

(14:53):
me? When do I just choose me?And you know, I had a the first
time that I did this, I was I.Leaving. I've gotten a career
coach, and you know, she has me.She's like, why can't you quit?
Like, the amount of energy ittakes you to get into work, if
you just literally through thefront door, back to similar to
your story, like, if you applythat energy to finding a job,

(15:14):
yeah, you'll probably find itpretty quickly. And I did, but
you know, it's even if it's notjumping and betting on yourself
to, like, start your own thing,some people can borrow some of
these lessons for switchingcompanies too.

Ashley Jefferson (15:28):
Yes, oh my goodness, yes. Because I I don't
think entrepreneurship is foreveryone. I think everyone
should be realistic about yourrisk tolerance and then, like,
you know, when those winterscome, or like, when at least the
first winter hits, and being anentrepreneur, where it's like,

(15:51):
you know, the faucet isn't like,gushing as it once was kind

Indra Klavins (15:56):
of barely dripping. Yeah, it's coming to a
slow

Ashley Jefferson (15:59):
drip. And you know, you really gotta, you
gotta ask yourself all thosethings, yeah, right. So yes, I
think that even if it is justanyone needing the courage to,
like, take the leaps or whateverthat next thing looks like, for
me, it was not being told to doby anyone anymore. But for, you
know, for someone else, yeah, itmight be just another corporate

(16:20):
job or just another institutionin general. It's just more in
alignment with values andlifestyle.

Indra Klavins (16:26):
Yeah, but I think that the the entrepreneur
journey, like or starting yourown thing, whatever it might be,
there's a lot of you for youdon't realize the infrastructure
that's in place from corporatethat you take advantage of,
like, we can start with, like,the simple things, like health
insurance, we can talk about,you know, like, there are just

(16:48):
some things that are there, butthere's a whole lot of other
things like that. You just thatthat come to you when you take
that leap out of corporate life.And, I mean, talk a little bit
more about that. I've got mythoughts on it, but just Yeah,

Ashley Jefferson (17:01):
so, like you said, I think there's the
obvious, right, health insuranceand savings for retirement,
stuff like that. But I alsothink it's understanding, like,
what you're going to charge,right? Like, sparging is huge.
What I had done when I firstleft was like, Okay, well, I'll
take my corporate salary, andI'll, like, make it hourly, and,

(17:23):
you know, that's my rate. Andthen it's just like, oh, it's
not gonna pay the bill. It's notgonna it's not gonna do what it
needs to do. Because, at least Ilive in New Jersey, my
healthcare when I first left waslike, $320 a month, right?
That's crazy. And then it's goneup since I'm at, like, I don't

(17:43):
know, 450 a month, right? And sojust health care alone, if
you're not factoring in that,like, additional cost, it's, I
mean, at the firm that I left, Iwas paying like,

Indra Klavins (17:57):
90 $100 a month, and not that much at a big

Ashley Jefferson (17:59):
corporation. Yeah, it truly is not that much,
like, if that, like, I'm noteven sure, and so that's
something that I didn't capturein but I think figuring out what
to charge yourself, what tocharge is really important. And
probably, like, the number onething where you may get it
wrong, but, like, don't get itsuper wrong, man, I think at

(18:24):
first I had was pretty off,yeah. So, yeah. So I think
that's definitely one thing. Ithink the second thing is really
thinking about what makes youyou, what makes you unique,
like, especially nowadays, andespecially if you're going into
a service based business, right,there are plenty of people that

(18:48):
are saying that they could dowhat you do, yeah. Like, for me,
it's product. There are plentyof other product, fractional,
advisor, con, you know,consultant people, yeah. And so
it's really going to be helpfulto people that are seeking
services. If you open somethingservice based, is like, Okay,
what makes you beyond servicebased, even if you decide that

(19:11):
you want to open a cafe, rightor do something else, it's like
understanding your story andwhat makes you unique in your
point of view and being able tocommunicate that is really
important. If you don't knowwhat makes you unique or unique
point of view, you have to takea beat, because it won't unless
you have like connections, warmnetwork ready to welcome you in

(19:35):
your new idea, it is going to bereally hard to sell yourself as,
like, another generic, insert

Indra Klavins (19:42):
XYZ thing here. Yeah, no, totally. And you know,
last so that Ashley was on wasaround her rebrand. So if you
want to check out some thoughtson that, but what, what it's
making me think about also is,like, the shift of identity.
Yeah, right, because, like, forso many people, like, if we.
Think about like, I work fortarget, I work for IBM, I work

(20:04):
for jpm, I work for Apple. I Imean, and then that like is some
sort of shorthand for yourstatus, or shorthand for what
you do, and shorthand for anelevation of your status, by
extension of that brand. Whenit's you on your own, it's
there's a there you need tohave. You know, I think there's
stuff that you need to havewithin you, but you need to have

(20:26):
your network. And you're reallygood at building your network of
people and finding your findingyour tribe, so to speak. Yes,
yeah, it's, oh my gosh,

Ashley Jefferson (20:35):
plus one identity, plus one a network.
The identity thing was muchharder for me than I thought.
And yes, there is this,especially when you go to
industry events, right? It'svery

Indra Klavins (20:45):
who are you? What do you? What do you work for?
You're like, I work for blah,blah, blah startup.

Ashley Jefferson (20:52):
So no, it's like, it's very true though,
that, like, the the identitything is hard, and just, you
know, we're listing a lot ofthings, but I think it's
important for everyone to know

Indra Klavins (21:04):
the landscape. It's a full it's a full tapestry
of thing. This is, it can feeloverwhelming, and it honest to
God, it is. It is overwhelming.It is overwhelming, yes, but the
benefits are there too. So,like, the benefits are there,

Ashley Jefferson (21:18):
the benefits are there, but over, like,
overcoming that identity complexis going to be important, yeah,
right. And then what was theother thing you mentioned after
Identity?

Indra Klavins (21:27):
Identity, it's defining yourself, finding your
community, finding your network,the network. Oh, so the

Ashley Jefferson (21:33):
network is something so key. So for me, I
knew that I wanted to pivot intostartups, but my network it was
core corporate, right? So, yes,people in corporate can also be
connected to the startup space,but it wasn't immediately
serving means that I what Ineeded at the moment, yeah. And

(21:54):
so for me, it was reallyunderstanding, like, Okay, where
can I go to talk to the peopleone that I want to serve, right?
Sure, and then two people justlike me. So it's almost like you
have to inject yourself intodifferent communities, where
it's like, one, to support tofill your cups or other service

(22:15):
based business owners. And thentwo, it's like being in
community with the people youwant to serve, but in a way
that's not super salesy, becauseno one wants to be

Indra Klavins (22:24):
sold to. Yeah, it's making me think my friend
Kaylee says she likes to learnfrom people who are just one
step ahead of her, two stepsahead of her, because I think
that you know when you're onthat entrepreneur journey, or
you're on you're on some sort ofjourney where you're trying to
do something that's novel toyou, you'll see, I'll choose

(22:45):
Apple again. Why? Becausethey've been announcing all
sorts of stuff recently. Butlike, you know, Apple and like,
they do it this way, and then,like, I'm not hiring Duarte to
do my keynote speeches on aplatform. Like, let's calm down.
Let's find the person who'seither with me in lockstep and
we're figuring it out together,or somebody who's like, just a

(23:06):
little bit ahead of me. So I'mlike, oh, okay, that's what,
that's what success looks likeat that step two steps ahead of
me.

Ashley Jefferson (23:13):
Yeah, that's, it's really true. And I do
wonder why. I hope that we'remore in a day and age where,
just like we're sitting here anddocumenting where we are, messy
middle, right? Matt, that morefounders do that, because I
think sometimes when you get towhere you want to be, right,

(23:34):
there's a tendency to reallyeither revision this history a
little.

Indra Klavins (23:39):
We just grabbed a door and we stuck it in a
garage, yeah, and like, suddenlywe're the biggest tech
companies.

Ashley Jefferson (23:46):
Exactly it, you know, heroes journey. We
never suffer heroes, heroesjourney, right? But there. But,
you know, sometimes I feel like,you know you have to do, like,
there are certain steps thatpeople probably are going to
take, that they're not reallythinking about right right now.
So example, if you do go theentrepreneurship route, and

(24:08):
especially if you're someone whowants to found a either tech
based company or a CPG company,right? Like, it's not going to
make money overnight. So ifyou're going head first into
this, like, what are you back tothe preparation? What are you
going to do to make money? Is ittaking a part time job? Is it
taking a part time job inservice based area, right? Is it
part time consulting in yourniche? Right? It's, it's

(24:31):
interesting. I'm now starting tosee more of a dialog of founders
one or two steps ahead of me,right? Being like, Yeah, I had,
like, a ton of debt, you know,and that's how I got through and
finance myself. Or, yeah, I, Isaw one guy on Tiktok be like,
I'm taking a bartending shift,yeah? Because, like, I want to

(24:55):
build my dreams, but I also needmoney to make it happen. And
there's just nothing wrong withthat.

Indra Klavins (24:59):
No. I just, I heard somebody say, and I wish I
could give her credit, because Idon't remember where I saw this,
but this woman said, she said,revenue is a lagging indicator.
Oh, where was that? I think itwas on Tiktok. If I find the Oh,
share it, I'll repay the searchit, yeah, but I'm sure I
bookmarked it. I'm sure I bookedmarked it, but like it. I was

(25:20):
just like, that's it. Like It,like, that is so important.
Like, that's why, when they say,you know, don't expect success
in the first two years. Like,that's a good benchmark in
general, right? And thinkthrough, what does that look
like for you? Because, you know,the other thing that's coming to
mind, you know, figure figuringout that money, because at Cindy

(25:42):
gallop, I adore Cindy gallop.You all hear me talk about Cindy
Gallup on the regular. But shesaid, which I've got to take a
look, make sure I get thisright. Her the three most
addictive things in life. Shesays, carbohydrates, which I
think everybody agree. I cangive pizza. Second one was
heroin. I'm like, oh, okay,don't. Can't speak to that. I
can. I'm like, I can see howthat can be very addictive. I

(26:05):
know, yeah, theory. And then herlast one was a monthly paycheck,
right? Because it's just so it'sbeen and she said it's
especially true in the US,because so much of our social
infrastructure is based off

Unknown (26:19):
of work. Yes, whether it's whether it's

Indra Klavins (26:23):
our benefits, or it's the people we just talk to
every day, or it's like,whatever it might be, it's just
like, there's so much that'stied to work. There's so much
that's tied to work. I agree.Yeah, please, I need that video.
I'll send you, I'll send you acall, I'll send you the YouTube
video, and I'll add that oneinto the show notes too, for
everyone, because Cindy gotlike, I adore her. I could talk

(26:45):
about her for days, but, but,you know, it's the other thing
is, like, we've talked about alot of the challenges like that,
the headwinds that you willface, let's not say not might.
It's will. It's a question ofwhich one's when. But, you know,
I think it's okay to leap beforeyou're ready, because I don't
know if you're ever going to beready. Going to

Ashley Jefferson (27:03):
be ready. Yeah, I don't know what like
being certain about taking sucha big leap looks like,
especially for me, it was verymuch. So, like I said, I was it
all came to a headline, yeah,right. And so it came to a head.
And I did not plan like when Ithought about how I was going to

(27:24):
move in to entrepreneurship, itwas beautiful. It was beautiful
and smooth. And, you know, I hadthought about it. I had made a
plan that was executing on theplan. And I had pivoted from
Yeah, yeah, people pivot. Iworked my corporate job as long
as I could, and then thebusiness was off the ground. And

(27:45):
I'm telling you, it's probablynot gonna happen that way. It
did for me. I felt like a bubblewas like, oh my god, I gotta go.
And made that decision to go.But you know, you're right.
You're never really ready totake the leap. It's about making
the best, informed decision. Butit's also a feeling. So like, I
am someone who really tries tointegrate, like, bodily signals,

(28:09):
yeah, he is telling me. Andthere's a difference between
anxiety, fear, intuition, right?Yeah, and so, like, it's okay to
be scared. That's a very humanemotion. But being scared alone
doesn't mean you shouldn't takea leap, right? But if all your
body signals No, don't do it,don't do it, don't do it. That's

(28:30):
very different than just beinganxious and scared about what's
beyond I

Indra Klavins (28:36):
love that. Yeah, I really love that. So okay, so
know that you may not ever feelcomfy. Check in with yourself to
see how comfortable you are.That's a real like, truly, like,
what is my body telling me?

Ashley Jefferson (28:50):
What is my body telling me this? We talked
about this in a differentepisode. Yeah. Like, you gotta
talk to yourself. Gotta get toknow yourself. Because I don't
just think my way into adecision. I feel my way into it
too. Like the two have to meetin order for me to like, okay,
yes, good decision, especiallyif you don't

Indra Klavins (29:09):
have a partner like you, and I don't know,
like, we serve our things. Nowit would be, it would be, it
would be different. It would bedifferent. And I'd say, make the
make as much of a plan as youcan to for like, yes, just
success and and also, like,alternate streams of income,

Ashley Jefferson (29:27):
alternate change of income, because you
don't want, like, it's alreadygoing to be a bit stressful the
entrepreneur, if you chooseentrepreneurship,
entrepreneurship journey likeI've talked about how
entrepreneurship is cracked mewide open in terms of just faith
and belief And what all thosethings mean to me now, and
thankfully, I had, like, areally decent, like nest egg

(29:47):
today to draw from, and I'm justreally thankful for that. But
even if that's not yoursituation, that doesn't mean you
don't go into it. It means bereal about how that income is
going to come in, right? And if.That does require you to get a
part time retail job. Like, whatdoes that mean? What does that
look like? Are you okay with it?Because, like, the any semblance

(30:09):
of go I had in a negative wayhas left. I gotta beat that
wholeheartedly. Because yourealize, like, I got to the
point where, especially when Iwas going through my my winter,
as I call it, I got to the pointwhere I was like, What am I
willing to do to have, like,legally, obviously,

Indra Klavins (30:27):
to have, let me caveat that.

Ashley Jefferson (30:33):
Let me caveat that legally to make to see my
dreams through. Yeah, right. Andsometimes that means, you know,
taking a retail job or becominga bartender, whatever it means
if you have the space to furtheryour goals, but don't be under
financial stress. Financialstress. No, it's not productive.

Indra Klavins (30:53):
No, get anywhere. No, I would. I've got, I say it
all the time. It's hope is hopeis not a strategy. It's a
survival skill. It's not astrategy. You can't just hope
that it's going to show up. Youhave to have some sort of plan
and and even maybe even exitstrategies along the way. So
strategies

Unknown (31:12):
are important. Always think, always revisit,

Indra Klavins (31:16):
always revisit. So, you know,

Unknown (31:18):
lady,

Indra Klavins (31:20):
I'm looking at our notes, and I think that
we've covered things. So you'renot alone if you're thinking
about it, if you are thinkingabout it, figure out how to
evaluate, assess as objectivelyas you can. And don't do it
alone, even if it's justlistening to podcasts like this
one or anything else like tryand try and find, try and find

(31:42):
people to talk to. I thinkthat's been the most, most
useful thing for me. At least Iagree. Thanks everyone. Thank
you, Ashley again for I guessthat everyone's gotten something
good out of this today, if or atleast felt seen. And hopefully
you'll all join us next time foranother topic from messy middle.
Bye. Thanks for taking time withus in the messy middle. Word of

(32:04):
mouth remains most powerful wayfor people to find us. If this
episode sparked something foryou, we'd love it if you'd
subscribe to the podcast on yourfavorite app, download a few
episodes and share it withsomeone else who's navigating
the in between. Do you haveideas for future episodes or
topics you'd like us to explore.You can find our feedback form
at the messy middle matters.comor in the show notes. Thank you

(32:26):
for joining us on this journey.This work is better when we do
it together, until next timeyou.