The Messy Middle Matters

The Messy Middle Matters

The Messy Middle Matters podcast shines a much-needed spotlight on what it takes to work in, survive in, and even thrive in the messy middle.

Episodes

August 20, 2025 31 mins

Why does everything feel urgent all the time — and what does it cost us? In this episode, Indra and Amanda unpack the toll of poor prioritization on teams, leaders, and organizations. 

From the illusion of decision-making to the chaos of shifting priorities, they explore the mental and operational burnout that comes when no one says no. They offer practical tools for creating clarity, setting boundaries, and making prioritization a...

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What do people mean when they say someone is “too senior”? In this episode, Indra and Amanda unpack the layered, often coded ways the word "senior" is used in hiring and professional contexts. 

From recruiter conversations to team dynamics, the term is frequently a stand-in for other qualities—such as executive presence, high salary expectations, and perceived difficulty to manage—that often reveal unspoken biases. They explore the...

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What do you do when a talented team member has outgrown what your organization can offer? In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda unpack the rarely discussed topic of supporting team members who are ready to move on, not because they've failed, but because they’ve grown. From recognizing career ceilings to embracing talent mobility, they explore how letting go can be an act of leadership, not loss. You’ll hear...

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In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda dive into a frustrating contradiction many professionals have experienced: the same companies that go out of their way to hire the brightest minds often turn around and disempower them the moment they arrive. From micromanagement to fear-based leadership, they examine the organizational dynamics that hinder strong talent and the downstream consequences for innovation, re...

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In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra Klavins and Amanda Jane Lee explore the language used in hiring, specifically the overused and often problematic terms “rockstar” and “unicorn.” They unpack how these labels, while meant to signal excellence, can set unrealistic expectations and perpetuate individualism over collaboration. Along the way, they highlight the real risks of unicorn hunting, the myth of the full-stack e...

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In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra Klavins and Amanda Jane Lee delve into the evolving landscape of personal branding, beginning with the notion that LinkedIn is no longer just a digital resume. From resharing posts to publishing thought leadership, today’s professionals are expected to build a visible, credible presence that extends far beyond job titles and bullet points.

They reflect on the growing pressure to “s...

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July 9, 2025 33 mins

Taking notes isn’t always busywork; it can be a power move. In this episode, Indra and Amanda unpack the underrated but essential skill of effective note-taking in the workplace. They reflect on how their own approach has evolved from admin duty to strategic tool and explore why the person writing the notes often holds more influence than you think.

From capturing decisions to controlling narratives, they share tactical advice on b...

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We've all been there—staring at a calendar invite with a cryptic title and no context, then spending the meeting trying to figure out why you're even there. In this episode, Indra and Amanda tackle the all-too-familiar plague of purposeless meetings.

From weekly leadership check-ins to post-meeting debriefs about the next meeting, they unpack the hidden cost of unclear gatherings: time, energy, morale, and productivity. They also o...

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June 25, 2025 28 mins

In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda unpack the complex role of titles and credentials in professional life. From HRIS databases that never quite get it right to the very real ways marginalized folks use credentials as armor, this conversation explores how titles are used, misused, and misunderstood.

They explore how titles can signal authority, invite (or block) collaboration, and even become tools of gate...

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In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda unpack the difference between scarcity and abundance mindsets—starting with a “zero-sum game” pizza analogy (yes, pizza 🍕). They explore how our beliefs about resources, success, and competition shape how we lead, collaborate, and show up in the world.

Drawing on The Infinite Game by Simon Sinek, Indra shares how this framework helps leaders break out of short-term, win...

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Soft skills: everyone talks about them, few people define them, and even fewer get help building them. In this episode, Indra and Amanda dig into the nuanced world of interpersonal and emotional intelligence—the unspoken skills that make or break how we collaborate, lead, and show up at work.

From navigating conflict and giving feedback to facilitating meetings and reading the room, they explore why soft skills often surface in hi...

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In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda unpack the often overlooked power of Project, Program, and Operations Managers (PMs), the PMs who hold organizations together behind the scenes. As companies cut budgets, these critical roles are frequently the first to go. However, eliminating the very people who create clarity, enable execution, and manage complexity can have long-term consequences.

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Sometimes it takes an outsider to say what everyone on the inside is thinking but can’t express. In this episode, Indra and Amanda unpack the value and complexity of bringing in consultants, agencies, and subject matter experts to say the quiet thing out loud. They explore how power dynamics, organizational culture, and fear of professional consequences can keep internal voices silent and why external perspectives can cut through t...

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In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda dive into the surprisingly powerful world of icebreakers, those sometimes awkward, sometimes delightful moments that set the tone for team connection. Whether you're leading a virtual kickoff, hosting a new hire orientation, or just trying to get humans to look each other in the eyes, the right icebreaker can ease social anxiety, build rapport, and foster inclusive envir...

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Is it possible that the secret to better teamwork, sharper ideas, and a more connected workplace is... play?

In this episode, Indra and Amanda bust the myth that work and play are opposites. They explore how introducing moments of levity, whether it’s custom Slack emojis, playful team names, or low-stakes laughter, can actually deepen collaboration, trust, and creativity.

They break down the different types of play that can live co...

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"I know what that word means… but what do you mean by it?"

In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda dive into the surprisingly powerful skill of asking clarifying questions. Whether it's untangling workplace jargon, bridging communication gaps, or just making sure everyone’s on the same page, asking for context can transform how teams collaborate.

We explore the importance of shared understanding, the art of cu...

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What happens when life outside the office becomes impossible to ignore? In this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, we explore what it means to be human at work, particularly during personal, local, or global crises.

From the ongoing effects of the pandemic to sudden personal emergencies, Indra and Amanda explore how leaders and employees alike can demonstrate empathy, set realistic expectations, and foster cultures that prioritiz...

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n this episode of The Messy Middle Matters, Indra and Amanda unpack the world of self-assessments. Whether they’re assigned to us by HR or are one of those eerily specific online quizzes we can’t help but take, they explore the pros and cons of personality and performance evaluations, sharing personal stories and asking: When do these tools help us grow? And when do they box us in?

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In this episode, Indra and Amanda break down workplace information dynamics, exploring why some people cling to knowledge, others freely share it, and some strategically keep certain details close to the chest. They unpack the motivations behind each approach, the impact on team dynamics, and how to find a balance that fosters trust while maintaining healthy boundaries.

Plus, they finally explain their matching sweatshirts. Spoiler...

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Being good at your job doesn’t automatically mean you’ll be good at managing people. So why do so many companies treat management as the default next step?

In this episode, Indra and Amanda dig into the myths and realities of people management—why some folks are promoted before they’re ready, what actually makes a great leader, and why management isn’t just a promotion but an entirely different job. They explore the essential skill...

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