Giants Huddle | Dane Brugler

On this episode of the Giants Huddle podcast, John Schmeelk is joined by Dane Brugler from the Athletic and author of “The Beast”, to discuss some of the draft storylines, possible trade scenarios, and the best cornerbacks that could be available on day two.

:00 - Standouts in The Beast

9:28 - Top of the draft

19:05 - Day 2 cornerbacks

32:19 - Safeties 

35:20 - Defensive tackles

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's time to get inside the Giants. Hutt's let's go.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Let's go Giants, My Giants, Mobul give me some job.

Speaker 1 (00:07):
Part of the Giants Podcast Network. Let's Roll.

Speaker 3 (00:10):
Welcome to another edition of the Giants Little Podcast, brought
to you by Citizens, the official bank of the Giants.
John Smoke with you, joined by front of the program
Dane Brugler, author of The Beast, the Best Draft Guy
in the Land, which you can find on the Athletic
with your subscription for free.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Dane, We've been doing this a long time, my friend.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
We were about a week away from the draft. How
you feeling, man like? Is all your hay in the
barn at this point? Is your seven round mock even done?

Speaker 2 (00:37):
I finished it this morning. That'll be up this week
on the Athletics and people can go check that out. Yeah,
you know, it's you never feel like you're quite done
until Draft weekend is here, until it's like time to draft,
because there's always another tape you can watch. There's always
another uh under the Radar player you can and go
watch more of. But yeah, at some point you just

(00:59):
have to. All right, we've been doing this for the
last year. We've we've seen a lot of these guys.
Let's trust our rankings, trust what we've seen, and you know,
we can feel good about it about you know what
our opinions on these guys. So yeah, I'm more than
excited for Draft weekend to be here so we can
react to the picks as opposed to you know, the opposite.

(01:22):
But yeah, this is a it's a fun draft class
because again, it's guys at the top. It's a strong
group at the top where you know, I don't I
don't know how many actual blue Chippers we have, but
it's a good first round. It's a good year we
have in a top ten pick. It's a good year
to have multiple first round picks. You know, the depth
in this draft kind of falls off, you know, I
don't know, fourth round, fifth round, somewhere that death does

(01:44):
fall off. So it's a good year to have early picks,
which makes it a lot of fun to talk about.

Speaker 1 (01:47):
Yeah, and a good year for the Giants. Avn't early pick.

Speaker 3 (01:49):
And by the way, Dane and Robert Mays and Nate Tice,
all of what you've heart on our program will be
live doing coverage of the draft on Thursday and Friday
through through the athletics, So make sure you tune in
and check that at We're only allowed to be on
through NFL rules for like at half an hour an
hour each night, So when we're not on, watch us
and then tune right back into their coverage, which is
always the best. And I always joked in that we've
been doing this a long time. Unfortunately, my printer here

(02:12):
has not had a chance to print out this year's guy.
But I went back into the archives twenty fifteen Williams.
I think that was the first year we had you on.
That's when I think you were still an NFL drafts
gaut in the Sports Exchange. Yeah, so we've been and
really you were one of the first draft guys we've
had on, and you've kind of motivated us to up

(02:33):
our coverage. I do a lot more work on it,
probably because of you. So I just want to thank
you for doing this for all these years. And I
got Leonard Williams here. I brought out all of them,
dude twenty sixteen, Laramy Tunsel, that's great. We got Miles
Garrett twenty seventeen. I got them all the way through
twenty twenty three. We just haven't had a chance to
print out this year is yet but awesome workers always.

Speaker 2 (02:50):
That's fantastic. That is fantastic. Now it's I've been doing
this long enough where it's you know, been growing over
the years and hopefully getting better and better. But no, yeah,
that's that's a good representation of our friendship and in
our professional relationship of talking about players and you know,
debating all these guys and you know, it's almost almost

(03:13):
a decade here. That's crazy.

Speaker 1 (03:15):
It is. It's nuts.

Speaker 3 (03:16):
And you do a great job with the Beast for
the folks that haven't checked out, and make sure you
do before we get into the actual prospects. Dane, this
is a little vague, so you could take any direction
you want. Give me some of your favorite either background
stories or anecdotes that you got into the Beast this year.

Speaker 1 (03:30):
It could be about a seventh round player, I don't care.

Speaker 3 (03:33):
Just some of the cool, really background stuff that you've
been able to pull out on a couple guys that
gives fans an idea of how deep you really do
dig on all these guys.

Speaker 2 (03:42):
I mean, I think the best or the most inspirational
story has to be Ray Davis from Kentucky, either running
back who you know, everything the life threw at him
from a young age. No one would have blamed him
if he, you know, succumb to the pressure and you know,
if one of fourteen siblings. But you know, his parents

(04:03):
were in the picture, in and out of jail. I mean,
he was in the foster care system. I mean, he
just he was dealt a rough hand. But he somehow
he overcame it all. And he led three different teams
in rushing over his career in college. We started at Temple,
then he was at Vanderbilt, then he finished at Kentucky.
And the tape that he put on, the performance he

(04:25):
put on tape this past year in twenty twenty three
was outstanding. And the coaches, they speak really highly of him.
It's funny when I've talked to him, he always mentions
his offensive lineman first instead of him. This is just
a guy that gets it. But he also has the
traits in the physical ability. Now he's an older guy
that'll work against him a little bit. He'll be uh,

(04:46):
this will be his twenty he'll turn twenty five during
his rookie season. But when you're talking about a third,
fourth round type of running back, I don't know how
much that age is gonna matter for a lot of teams.
So Ray Davis is one of the the more inspirational
stories in this class. He's he's fantastic, so and I
you know, I love the We have a lot of

(05:09):
father son, you know, NFL blood lines in this class.
Frank Gore, Frank Gore junior obviously, Marvin Marvin Harrison, Marvin
Harrison junior, Jerry Rice, his son is in this class.
McCaffrey's are again represented in the NFL Draft. So that's
always fun learn about some of the bloodlines and you

(05:30):
know different uh Ed Reid is connected to a few guys,
Trey Taylor, the Air Force safety is there's a he's
a cousin. I mean, there's there's a lot of different
bloodline connections and it's always interesting to find those out
with these prospects.

Speaker 3 (05:43):
Kingsley Suamataia cousin of Penney Sewel Like, there's a lot
of guys and it's funny all the guys that we
watch you growing up now are starting to have kids
that are going into the draft. That makes me extremely old.
It's it's it's not great. Brandon Jacobs, who I was
here I can see you when he played the Super Bowl.
His kid is it's like the number one prospect coming
at It's it's crazy running back, no offensive tackle.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
Oh my gosh, that's not too crazy when you think
of Jacobs and how big he was, but wow, that
that is crazy.

Speaker 3 (06:12):
Yeah, let me see if I can get that up
here real quick, because I know he was highly recruited. Yeah,
Brandon Jacobs, he could just committed to Clemson.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
Brandon Jacobs. He's six seven, three hundred ten pounds already.

Speaker 2 (06:24):
Jeez wow, yeah, I mean Jacob bro Jacobs. I mean
at his at his biggest was probably what I mean,
two fifty to sixty. I mean he was a big,
big boy and so uh, I guess not a complete
stretch that if the sun with that side, if he's
six seven, then uh yeah, that's good for him, good

(06:45):
for his family.

Speaker 3 (06:46):
Yeah, Brandon Jacobs on the top of my list of
guys you don't want to be stuck in a dark
alley again. The scary dude. Him and Sean Rodgers, who
was here for a couple of years, two of the
guys that had that nastiness to him. You don't want
to mess with those two guys and definitely.

Speaker 2 (06:58):
Want to they have the intimidation factor.

Speaker 3 (07:00):
Sure, absolutely, all right, you mentioned Ray Davis, and then
I'll get into the tone a second. This is funny
when I watchedly I did all the running back a
few weeks ago, and I tried to watch them walk consecutively.
I actually liked his tape the best day, and believe
it or not, but then you look at the the
numbers and the measurements the age of your point. I
eventually slid them down the board. But I just think

(07:20):
if you're gonna pick a guy that's gonna be a good,
solid running back, back can do a little bit of everything.
Even if you know the speed's not overwhelming, nothing really
jumps out at you in terms of the testing.

Speaker 1 (07:29):
I don't think you can go wrong with a guy
like that.

Speaker 3 (07:31):
And if you're only gonna have a running back for
one contract anyway, I think you'll probably last through that
one deal at least.

Speaker 2 (07:37):
Yeah, And that's the key is we can get caught
up with the age and oh, twenty one sounds better
than twenty five, and I get it, But we're talking
about probably a player that be drafted in the fourth round,
and when you're talking about a Day three running back. Yeah,
give me, just give me good players as opposed to
worrying about what's what's that second contract gonna look like?
And you know what's it gonna look like five year?

(07:58):
Most gms aren't gonna see four five year from now.
So let's get the better player for right now. And
you could make an argument that Ray davis Florida tape
was maybe the best running back tape of any running
back in his class. You could make that argument he
was outstanding, one of the few running backs that was
outstanding against Georgia this year. He runs with it's equal

(08:20):
parts patients and instincts, but also an urgency where I mean,
once he sees that hole, he senses it, he hits it,
he goes. He can put his foot in the ground
to make sharp lateral moves, make a safety missing space.
To your point, doesn't really have that pull away gear,
more of a four or five athlete than a four

(08:41):
to four athlete. But just the fact that he's ripping
off these singles and doubles where he's getting six yards
twelve yards, even as there's not a ton of eighty
yard ers, he's still getting these positive gains and I
was really encouraged by what he did catching the ball,
even though he wasn't a high volume pass catcher, but
I was encouraged by the way he caught it. I

(09:02):
think he's more than just a screen receiver. But yeah,
there's when you factor in his background and everything. He's
overcome the all. With a lot of these players, you
always want to figure out have they had to handle
adversity and because when you get to the NFL, it's
full of adversity, and so do you have the mindset
to overcome that? The mental toughness. There's no question about

(09:25):
this kid's mental toughness and his ability to work past
some of the roadblocks. So yeah, Ray Davis to me,
easy sell, and I think somewhere in that probably the
fourth round is where he's going to come off the board.

Speaker 3 (09:38):
All right, let's talk intel here, Dane. Is your thought
still quarterbacks one through three with the third one being
Drake May and then just it's all hands on deck
for teams trying to trade up with Arizona and the Chargers.

Speaker 1 (09:52):
What's your feel for how these first five picks are
going to go.

Speaker 2 (09:56):
I feel good about the first pick. Put it that way,
Caleb Williams is going to be a Chicago Bear. Feel
very confident about that. After that, it really is. Because
let's remember the word consensus should never be used in
any draft conversation. Get it out of here, because every
team looks at these guys a little bit differently. Some

(10:16):
think JJ McCarthy is the number two quarterback in his class,
Jayden Daniels, Drake May. I mean, there's a different order
from team to team, and especially when you look at
the Commanders at number two. You have a very hands
on owner who will be part of the conversation about
who the pick is. At number two, you have a
first year general manager. You have a head coach who

(10:38):
is a defensive minded head coach, so he brings a
different perspective to the conversation. He's looking at it through
the realm of Okay, who do I not want to
prepare for? You know, who is the guy that I
just I don't want to see on the other side
that my defense has to stop? And so the Commanders
are really interesting with who they might draft at number two.
I think all signs are pointing to Jayden Daniels, but

(11:00):
that's until the pick is official. I'm still not feeling
super great about that. And then the Patriots at number three,
what direction do they go? You have, you know an
offense last year that was just got awful, and you
know Robert Kraft eighty two years old, he does not
want to see an offense like that again. He can't

(11:22):
do it. So I think quarterback, it seems to be
the favorite at number three, But which quarterback? You know,
they've had all Jane Daniels, JJ McCarthy, Drake Made. They've
had them all in. They've spent a few days there
just learning the player. And who knows how those interviews go.
That's the thing. JJ McCarthy has an outstanding interview, which

(11:43):
is very possible. The intangibles, And I've said since the summer,
once coaches get with JJ McCarthy and learn about him
as the person. And this is nothing against Jane Daniels
or Drake May because I think I think all these
guys not worried about the character at all. I think
they'll all do very well in an interview setting it
JJ has a chance to really separate himself because the
intangibles are that good. So if JJ McCarthy were to

(12:07):
be that number three pick, I don't think that'd be
super surprising. So it's I am very interested to see
how these quarterbacks come off the board. Could be Chalk,
how we kind of Jade Daniels too, Drake May three,
and then you know JJ McCarthy will have to wait
and see we have a team trading up. How does
that play out? But I do think it is really
fascinating because beauties and I the beholder, and it is

(12:27):
never more true than with quarterbacks because it's not just
about the player that you see on tape. Tell us
about the person. This is a CEO of your franchise,
and you have to be you know, one over by
the by the person to invest a top five pick
into the player. So I'm really fascinated to see how
this plays out.

Speaker 4 (12:46):
You love turf, You're good at it, so you start
a turf biz business, grows, your savings grow, become the
most celebrated name in turf. Are you ready for all
that life brings?

Speaker 3 (13:01):
And then how about Arizona in LA? Do you think
both are looking to get out? Do you think they
already basically have offers on the table from Minnesota to
Denver any other team that might be looking to move
up to one of those two spots to get that quarterback,
if that fourth quarterback is a player that those two
teams value.

Speaker 2 (13:18):
There's no doubt that this is the time of the
year when, even before this, where those deals are talked
about with teams, and maybe not all the specifics, but
you start to talk, you do the legwork about Okay,
what would you be looking to get, You have your
negotiating points, and then that's what's where you start, and
then you work it down and see if you can
come to an agreement. And a lot of deals, there's

(13:41):
a far more deals that are talked about between teams
that aren't done compared to the ones that are actually executed.
But if you're especially if you're the Vikings, if you're
if you're the Raiders, the Broncos, you're at least seeing, okay,
what would it cost us? You know, you're doing your
due diligence. So even if a trade doesn't happen, Okay,
this is what we'd be willing to part with. You know,

(14:04):
you maybe it's not exactly what you're looking for, but
think about it. You know, if you don't get a
better offer, or if you maybe you sleep on it
and you think this might be something you could do. Okay,
then great, But yeah, there's so many offers being talked
about right now, especially with these quarterbacks at the top.
Could we see quarterbacks go one, two, three, four, something
we've never seen before. It's it's possible, and I wouldn't

(14:25):
be surprised if you're the Cardinals if they do something
like they did last year where they trade out and say,
say it is the Vikings. Vikings go from eleven to four,
Cardinals go back to eleven, but then just trade right
back up, say with the Chargers at five, and they're
able to get that Marvin Harrison Junior or whichever receiver
they want, but still pick up draft capital in the

(14:46):
process because of their maneuvering. They did it last year
with Paris Johnson, an offensive tackle out of Ohio State.
So I do think that the Cardinals have shown they're
willing to be creative with how they move around. The
Chargers are a little bit of a wild card, considering
you know, we've got a first year general manager. Jim
Harbaugh is a complete wild card in this process. He

(15:06):
has a very different perspective on these players, having recruited
a lot of them at Michigan having coached against them
or with them in college, so he brings a very
different perspective to this process as well. So there's a
level of unknown A four and five. But I think
both are more than willing to listen to offers because
I think they'd both like to get out of there

(15:26):
if they can.

Speaker 3 (15:27):
And I think we're going to see a new president
set for the amount you have to pay to move
up to day because of the level of quarterback you
could be moving up four and the fact there's going
to be competing offers. Right, you have two teams that
are three teams even if you count the Raiders that
are really desperate to move up. So I think I
think the price is going to be pretty exorbitant. But
you know, if you get the right quarterback, you can
never pay too much, right.

Speaker 2 (15:48):
It's true, and it will be because I think we
look at past offers and say, okay, well, this is
what it costs for the forty nine ers to go
get Trey Lance at number three overall, or you know,
we look at those as guidelines, But the truth is,
the offer is whatever the move is going to be,
whatever the best offer is. And so but I should

(16:11):
take that back actually, because if you're the Cardinals, if
you have a trade offer from maybe someone that's not there,
still picking in the top ten, you might be more
inclined to do that deal because you are still in
range of one of those top three receivers. And I
think that those top three receivers are a key point
in all of this, because, yeah, you want more draft capital,

(16:31):
but the Cardinals are already set up pretty well, and so
if you have a chance to stay within striking distance
of one of those top three receivers, because I think
if I'm the Cardinals, that's a priority for me. Is
what However, it looks like I don't care. As long
as I get out of that top ten with one
of these three receivers, that should be my goal. Even
if I'm maneuvering and trading around, that's fine. As long

(16:53):
as I'm coming away with Marvin Errison Junior or mylike
neighbors Romaduonze. To me, that should be their priority as
they try to rebuild that offense, and they just need
to give Kyler Murray some type of number one weapon.
And we just happen to have three of those guys
at the top of this draft.

Speaker 3 (17:10):
Yeah, and I think that's our priority for the Giants too,
if they don't decide to go quarterback Dame to get
one of those three wide receivers. If they're trying to
pick up an extra pick, do you think they could
risk going down to nine to say with the Bears.
Maybe the Bears aside they have one receiver they really want,
they want to move up.

Speaker 1 (17:24):
Or is it too risky?

Speaker 3 (17:26):
Then where the Falcons could get out at eight if
they feel good about an edge rusher in the early teens.
If you're the Giants, you want one of those three
wide receivers, do you have to stay there at six?

Speaker 2 (17:34):
In your opinion, I think that if you are a
dead set on coming away with one of those receivers
and yet you have to stick a pick, it is
too much of a risk because, just like you said
it up, if they move back to nine, it's even
the seven with the Titans. If the Titans have similar
grades on Fuaga and Olufashnu and all, you know, I

(17:56):
wouldn't be surprising if they trade back a little bit,
get the draft picks and they still get an offensive
liman that they want, or maybe they go into completely
different direction. There's too much that could happen at seven
or eight, because I think a lot of teams, you know,
the Colts at fifteen, the Jaguars, There's a lot of
teams that would love to have one of these top
three receivers. Who knows, we could even see a Julio

(18:18):
Jones type of trade with the Bills going all the
way up to get their next number one receiver. There's
too many landmines that if I'm the Giants and i
want one of these three receivers, I'm sticking and picking
as much as it it'd be great to have that
second round pick and a third round pick, that extra
draft capital, whatever it may be. Give me. Let's just

(18:39):
make sure we get our guy and we're not too
cute about.

Speaker 1 (18:42):
It one hundred percent.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
And folks, Dane join those at the combines and go
back to that combine episode. He did all his evaluation
of the top receivers and top quarterbacks. If you want
to hear it, his evaluation of the players haven't changed.
Go back, take a listen to that. We're gonna focus
a little bit more on day two guys here, especially
on defense. We had his colleague Brian brought his former
colleague Brian brought us on this week before.

Speaker 1 (19:01):
It's a lot on the offense.

Speaker 3 (19:02):
Day two. We'll do Day two defense here with Dane.
But first a reminder. The huddle is brought to you
by Citizens, the official bank of the Giants from game data. Everyday,
Citizens is made ready for Giant fans with inside guidance
and solutions. Learn more at Citizens bank dot com. All right,
Dane Corner on Day two, I did these guys last
week and finalize my rankings. I gotta be honest, I
had a hard time stacking these guys, and I was

(19:25):
looking back and I was trying to figure out why
I was having such trouble. And one of the reasons
I came up with is that none of the testing
for these guys, especially on day two for me, really
jump out at you. Like last year we had DJ
Turner right as a as a Day two guy from Michigan,
but he ran a four to three eight right. This
year we got a bunch of five eleven guys that
seemed to run like in the low four to fives.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
And that's on a fast track at Indie.

Speaker 3 (19:48):
We're on a regular track that might be a four
five five, four five six right and I'm having trouble
stacking these Day two guys. Whether it's the DJ Jameses,
the Drew Phillips, the Ronaldo hit Bernardo Green, they're all
kind of in the same group for me and I
I don't know if it's gonna be scheme dependent how
these teams separate these guys and its racket straws in
that same group for me too. You know, Max Melton

(20:09):
ran a little faster, but he's in that group just
stacking up and figuring out these Day two cornerbacks.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
I think it's really tough for a position or once.

Speaker 3 (20:17):
You get out of the elite athletes, it is hard
to find really high level players at the position.

Speaker 2 (20:25):
Yeah, and I think that it's funny when you talk
to different teams. You get one team says this about
one player and another team feels completely opposite. So you
know what you're everything that you're saying about. Uh, it
kind of just all these guys jumbled together. That's like
a lot of teams feel the same way, where it's

(20:47):
it's more of a tier system where they're just you
try to separate these guys. You find these little things
and that's why you know the testing matters interviews matter
because that little those little things can be the separator
when their tags are touching on the on the board.
I you know, for me, Andrew Phillips from Kentucky is

(21:08):
one of my favorite players in the draft. I love
this player. I think he's we can get so caught
up in size and length and just give me the
good players, and I think Andrew Phillips certainly qualifies for that.
He is five eleven one ninety ran a four to
four to eight and the forty. Not a blazing fast forty,
but he is a good enough athlete. I don't see
him be out athleted on tape and he played in

(21:30):
the SEC, but he has he's physical. He's me a
lot of Roger McCreery when he was coming out of
Auburn and he was an early second round pick to
the Titans. Has been a solid pro so far, probably
best in the nickel, but I think he can also
play outside. Not everyone's gonna look at him the same
just because again, he doesn't have that ideal size speed combination.

(21:53):
But I think he's good enough and that physical mindset
that he plays with the way that he wins body position.
He will play through the hand as receivers. Didn't have
an interception in college, and for some that's that's a
red flag. That's they want somebody that's going to turn
the ball over. Everybody wants that. But I think of what,
he didn't have an interception because he can't play the ball.

(22:13):
I think he just it just didn't happen for him.
I mean, there are times where you know he is
in position, he's able to knock the ball away. It's
just he needs to turn those into some of those
balls need to turn into pickoffs. And I think he
can do it. I've seen him do it on practice tape.
I've seen him do it at the Senior Bowl. So
Andrew Phillips, I'm a big fan of Somewhere. I think

(22:34):
somewhere in round two is where he's going to come
off the board. I don't think he makes it the
round three.

Speaker 3 (22:38):
And I was happy to see you with Sanser still
as your sixth corner. I didn't look at your stack
until I finished mine, and that's exactly where I had
him too. And I know he's just five nine and
one eighty and he's not an elite tier athlete. Very
good time at four four seven, but boy, that guy
just knows how to play football, and in a terror
Dane where that slot spot is so important, playing two

(22:59):
ways run and pass, and understanding how the offense is
trying to influence you as one of those space players inside.
I think his just mental approach to the game will
really appeal to teams.

Speaker 2 (23:12):
Copy and paste a lot of what I just said
against with the Andrew Phillips for Seynras still because again
it doesn't match up with the elite size speed that
teams are looking for. But he's just a really good
football player. And I have to be really encouraged by
the fact that he was a receiver at Michigan for
the first three years and then they moved to dB

(23:33):
for the twenty twenty two season, and he got better
and better and better every year. And for a guy
that just doesn't have a ton of experience there, he
had twenty passes defended over the last two years, seven interceptions,
and he also was only flagged once over that span,
So you consider as inexperience and the fact that he
only had one flag and didn't give up a ton

(23:54):
of catches. Yeah, this guy is a smart player. He
just has a sixth sense for and you know where
the ball is going. He just he understands it and
so the coverage transitions are clean. You know, being a
former wide receiver, he us a good sense for route
breaks and what receivers are trying to do to him.
You just have to be able to be okay with

(24:16):
the lack of size. And you know a lot of
teams are not going to draft and undersize Nickel in
the first two rounds. But I think there will be
a team that is more than okay with that because
if you have a need at the nickel position, he's
plug and play and you feel great about him as
part of your defensive structure.

Speaker 3 (24:34):
You watch the tape, it's hard not to like what
Rachestra puts on tape. But injury issues ran a four
or five to one. Same with Kamara Lassidar. He ran
up in the four sixes. I know there's some controversy
to that, but I know you've talked to a lot
of people and they tell you he was in the
four sixes.

Speaker 2 (24:49):
They're all in the four sixes.

Speaker 3 (24:50):
Yeah, and you know sub one ninety, but his tape
was good at Georgia. How do you think teams are
viewing those two guys trying to balance out some of
the non tape stuff versus the good stuff they saw
on tape.

Speaker 2 (25:03):
Yeah. Hell, Lassiter, it is tough because he's he's not
particularly big, you know, he's not a big man. He's
not you know, it's not like that's the reason for
his lack of speed, you know, where as opposed to say,
like like a TJ. Tampa who six one five has
some more size to him. He ran four or five eight,
but you know, at least he has length to him.
With Lassiter, he's five to eleven and a half. He's

(25:25):
under one hundred and ninety pounds, so not a big
physical player, but he's very smart. He understands how to
play the position. He's a guy that on tape he
grades as a second round player, but then the testing
probably pushes him in a round three just because again
for six is low. Four six is it's it's it's
hard to uh reconcile that with the player that you

(25:48):
see on tape, because a player you see on tape
is a good football player, but it's corners a stop
watch position, it is, and for a lot of teams
at four six, it's it's a little bit of a
deal breaker. So to me, he is a second round
player who should go in the second round. That probably
goes early third maybe as a nickel. We'll have to
see how that plays out. Yeah, with Rick Shaw, he

(26:09):
is I struggle with him because I like the mentality
that he plays with. He is he's a dog. I mean,
he wants to go out there and compete and compete
and compete, but there are just too many things working
against him where he's he's a little bit undersized five
to eleven, uh, you know, one to eighty three. Uh
has some injury stuff, you know, so you worry about
the durability. Not a great straight line athlete. Uh. You know,

(26:31):
ran a four or five to one at the combine
and then at the runs again at the Prodade runs
a four five six, So didn't even couldn't even match
what he did at the combine. You you really like
the mentality that he brings. He's patient, he's very controlled
with his movements.

Speaker 3 (26:47):
You know.

Speaker 2 (26:47):
He he moves really well to uh mirror up and
down the field. So there's a lot of things that
he does well. Uh, but when you're going up against
NFL level receivers, NFL level athletes, being undersized, not having
a ton of ball production. You only three passes defended
this year, only one career interception. So there is some
parts to his game that give me a little bit

(27:08):
of pause. And why I see him as you know,
I see him pop up in first round Mox and
I struggle with that. I just I don't see that
type of player. But once you get into the forties
and the fifties, that's where I think, Okay, I'm comfortable
drafting him here because he is missing some of the
elements that I want in my corners. But above all,
give me the guy that's physical, give me the guy
that has that mentality, that competitiveness. He brings that, and

(27:30):
so that's what I'm if I have to sell him
in a war room, to my to a team, It's
all about the way that he the mentality that brings
to the field, the way he competes, and the way
that he'll match up with NFL level receivers the next level.

Speaker 3 (27:45):
All right, two more guys on corners I want to
touch on here, Dane.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
One is Ronaldo Green.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
I'm gonna give my Ronaldo Green prop againda right now
because I have him in the second round, and it's
because he plays so much press, and you know so
many these guys are on off coverage, you have to
figure it out, right, He's in press all the time
for Florida State and he's sticky as hell, man, I think.
And now the Giants aren't going to be in that
as much this year with with Martinelle not being here
and all that. But I think Ronardo Green is one
of those guys you watch the tape and you can

(28:10):
immediately see how that guy is going to transfer to
the NFL, given how he was used at Florida State
playing so much of that press.

Speaker 1 (28:17):
Man.

Speaker 2 (28:19):
Yeah, and I totally get it because he is another
guy he has the right mentality for the position and
he wants to get physical. He's wired right for the position.
I think he's smart too, the way he can read
receivers and understand what routes they want to run. Patient
controlled in that sense, but there are times where he
will get over aggressive, and because he's only an average

(28:42):
athlete by NFL standards for that position, his recoveries are
where I worry because if there's a receiver that's able
to stem him out of out of phase, he really
struggles to get back into phase and get back into positions.
So I agree with you. The thing to like about
him are being able to press, being able to you know,

(29:05):
play that sticky coverage when he's when everything's going right.
But when he gets out of position, can he recover that?
That's that's my hang up with with Green. Why I
I have a fourth round grade on him. I couldn't.
I couldn't get him into my top one hundred just
because of the lack of recovery skills. That just it
worries me. But I understand why some teams they might
look at it and say, okay, well give me the

(29:27):
guy that has the play personality, give me the guy
that you know he he understands what the receiver is
trying to do. And so even though his recoveries are
a little bit of a struggle, he's not caught out
of position that many times, and we're we're going to
bank on him being able to do that at the
NFL level. So Renaldo agree is a tough one. There

(29:47):
are I know, some teams that are completely out on
Ronardo Green. They maybe as a late round guy, not
you know, not interested. Other teams they look at, you know,
throw on the l s U tape and what he
did against those receivers, and uh say, okay, you know what,
this guy just understands how to play corner. Well, you know,
we feel like he's gonna go talk one hundred. So
Ernardo Green's the truth is probably somewhere in the middle somewhere.

(30:08):
Maybe third round, fourth round is probably where he's gonna
end up going. But yeah, a lot of differing opinions
from team to team on Green.

Speaker 4 (30:16):
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Speaker 2 (30:31):
All?

Speaker 3 (30:31):
Right? Final thing on corners of the big guys, the
TJ tamp is the Cam Heart's, the Kyrie Jackson's Dane.
How do you kind of sort through them if you're
looking for a bigger outside corner real quick?

Speaker 2 (30:41):
Yeah, I'll throw de Cameron Richardson in there too, six '
two and a quarter one hundred and eighty eight pounds.
You know, wasn't he thought he was going to transfer
actually at Old Miss for this for next season. Had
a late change of heart and then decided not to
go to the Senior Bowl because of that. But he's
a guy that has the size ran a four to
three four, has outstanding speed. I worry about his ball

(31:04):
tracking skills. He is he really struggled to find the football,
especially once his back has turned to the football. But
when we're talking, you know, probably fourth early day three
for him, I think that he's going to be an
appealing player to look at. Cam Hert's kind of in
that same same range for me, sixty three two hundred.
This is a good example of trusting the tape more

(31:27):
so than the tag. The tag says six three two hundred,
it says four or five ozh You know, you see
the length of thirty three inch arms and oh, easy
to be encouraged by that. But then you watch tape
and you see an inconsistent player. So again I think
we're seeing more fourth round for him. Same thing with
Kyrie Jackson, who had an outstanding season. But okay, why

(31:48):
did it take until his sixth year in college to
do or to play up to this level. You know
what happened at Alabama where when he did get on
the field, it was inconsistent, didn't last very long suspended,
goes to Oregon. He's gonna be a twenty five year
old rookie. So there's more question marks with Kyrie Jackson.
A lot of teams doing their background and homework on him.

(32:08):
But you know, if things all go in the right direction,
Jackson can be an NFL starter. He has that in him.
It's just a matter of consistency for the Big six
four Oregon.

Speaker 1 (32:18):
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Speaker 3 (32:20):
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Speaker 1 (32:28):
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Speaker 3 (32:30):
All right, Dan, let's jump out to safety here the
Giants going to more to that split safety. You know,
cover two, cover four, cover six, you know, figure things out,
matchup zone things you need. Corner safeties rather that can
do a little bit. Everything can be versatile and move
up or down based on offensive formation. When do you
think the sweet spot is for safeties?

Speaker 1 (32:49):
Here?

Speaker 3 (32:49):
Is its second round? Is the third round? And what
safeties do you think kind of fit that versatile role
that I just describe for what the Giants would be
looking for on their new defense.

Speaker 2 (33:02):
I think if you want to draft that first safety
off the board, then you're looking at that position in
the second round. If you are comfortable with draft, you
know your third or fourth safety. If you've got these
guys all jumble together in a similar range, then you
can wait till the third round and I think feel
very confident about who's going to be there for you.
For me, Jayden Hicks from Washington State is my top

(33:26):
ring safety this year, and I think he fits a
lot of what the Giants could be looking for when
you think about that versatility to play a lot of
different roles, whether that's more of a split safety role
or you walk them down to the box let him play.
He can play on an island, you know. Michael Pennix
then throw a lot of interceptions this year. One of
those was against Jayden and Hicks where he was lined

(33:47):
up Mono Imano against the slot receiver. So he can
do a lot of things where he's that intimidating presence
because he is six two two and fifteen pounds, but
he also has enough speed where he can do some
things and coverage. So I'm a big Jayden Hicks fan,
I think if you're looking at versatility in different ways,
he can help the Giants I think would be interested

(34:07):
in that. Tyler Nuban obviously is a name I think
most fans are familiar with. Six one and a half
two hundred and five pounds. The testing wasn't great for him.
I think he's a better athlete on film. Now. He
did have a knee injury and maybe maybe that plays
a part into why the testing wasn't up to what
a lot of our expectations were. But you want a

(34:28):
guy that can find the football and go make a play.
I mean he's a former receiver and you can tell
he does receiver like things at the catchpoint. So thirteen
receiver or interceptions over the last four years, I think
that you're looking for that, that split safety. I mean,
you look at what Minnesota did on film. You see
a lot of cover two, you see quarters based, you
see you see a lot of what the Giants would

(34:48):
probably be looking to do this year. So Nuban would
would be a I think a natural fit. And then
same thing with Cole Bishop from Utah, who might hang
up with him. As much as I like his tape,
he's six two two o six ran outstanding time at
the combine. He was in the mid four fours. I
just wanted to see more impact level plays on film,
you know, like he'll, he'll make good tackles, he'll he

(35:10):
had a pair of interceptions, but there. I thought he
left some production on the field for a guy with
his range, with his intelligence, with his smarts. I just
wanted to see more impact plays and I didn't. I
thought the tape. I wanted to see more of that
from his tape, especially when you consider all the talent
and ability that he has.

Speaker 3 (35:30):
All Right, let's jump down the defensive tackle. Who damn
he got about three four minutes left. Gihantys have a
bunch of big bodies, including Dexter Lawrence. If they're looking
for an athletic upfield three technique, obviously take Byron Murphy
and Johnny Newton out of the equation.

Speaker 1 (35:43):
They're not going to be there when the Giants have
a chance to take them.

Speaker 3 (35:46):
Who do you like to play that three technique role
on either Day two or maybe a little bit deeper
guy on Day three? Where I know this was supposed
to be a better top of the class defensive tackle group,
but it seems like in the mid rounds, it's pretty thick.

Speaker 2 (36:00):
I really on day two. I really like these defensive
tackle class and especially if you looking for that three technique.
Chris Jenkins from Michigan. You know, he has a lot
of the ingredients that you're looking for to be that
one gapping go make a play, A really good athlete,
much different than style of defensive tackle than his dad was,

(36:20):
so he would fit. Mike Hall Junior from Ohio State,
who is undersized a little bit, and you do question about, okay,
can he hold up against the run, But he's very young,
He's still just twenty years old. The disruption is outstanding,
the quickness that he plays with, So I think you're
banking on him continuing to develop and grow a little
bit of an investment type of pick than some of

(36:41):
these other guys. Brandon Fisk from Florida State. I see
him even some people say, you know, maybe late first round.
That would be surprising to me because he's he's more
of a worker bee than a true impact player. But
you need those guys on your defensive line, and so
I think he's when you look at some of the
impact plays that he made this year for Florida State

(37:02):
on that defensive line. That the quickness that he plays with,
the violence in his hands, he can the motor doesn't quit.
I mean it doesn't matter against a run, against the pass,
He's going to go make a play. So Fisk makes sense.
But if we're looking maybe more fourth round McKay Wingo
from LSU again undersize, six foot, two hundred and eighty
five pounds, but a tough guy to block. And at

(37:24):
the end of the day, when we're talking about defensive tackles,
give me the guys that hate to b block, and
I think McKay wingo fits in that category as well.
So yeah, I think once you get into day three,
it does thin out a little bit. Fourth, fifth round,
then we're talking more Dwayne Carter from Duke. You know,
he's there's a lots to like about him. As a

(37:44):
mid round type of player, He's a potential fit. If
you're looking for maybe more of a boom bust, invest
in one of those guys in the fourth, fifth round.
Leonard Taylor from Miami six three and a half, three
hundred and five pounds, A good athlete. If you take
his ten best plays, you look at that and you
say Okay, this is a first round pick, right. The
body of work doesn't say first round pick. The body

(38:05):
of work says more day three. But if you're this
is why you have the coaches, right, and so why
you pay him all that money to coach these guys up?
And if Leonard Taylor hits, if he's able to reach
his full potential, he'll look like a steal after a
team drafts him in the fourth or fifth round.

Speaker 3 (38:18):
All right, Dan, final question, when does this thing drop
off a cliff?

Speaker 1 (38:22):
Right?

Speaker 3 (38:22):
We've heard all throughout this process. I talked to Jim
Naggy and Eric Galco about it. How just the number
of guys available to them for these All Star Games
even was at an all time low because of the
extra COVID year because of Nil's And that means the
back end of this draft, it's gonna be the opposite next year,
by the way, when there's a bajillion guys in the sixth, fifth, sixth,
seventh rounds, When does this thing really fall off the
cliff and teams are going to have trouble even finding

(38:45):
people left on their boards to draft. You think on
Day three?

Speaker 2 (38:50):
I think it differs by position. You know some positions
will stretch more corner wide receivers. There's more of those
guys in this draft. But yeah, offensive tackle will fall
off pretty quickly. I think defensive line as a whole.
I'm working on my seventh rounder right now, just finished it,
and I found that these defensive linemen were going earlier

(39:12):
and earlier, just because everyone wants defensive line depth, every
single team, and if you don't, it's one of those
positions you just can't wait on. You have to go
get them a little bit earlier because it's not a
position that's going to waigh around because every team's gonna
want to draft that position. So defensive line especially, I
think really both in the trenches, offensive line, defensive line,
those positions we're going to see them first round, but

(39:34):
then second round, third round, into the fourth. After we
get midway through the fourth, that's where I think it's
going to drop off both sides, offensive line, defensive line.
Then you know that to your point, it's something that
won't be as much of a problem or shouldn't be
as much of a problem next year with you know,
the COVID year going away and all of that, but
who knows. But then il on the transfer portal. It

(39:55):
just feels like a whole new ball game now with
the draft and how guys make their decisions about whether
or not to go pro. And so it'll be a
really interesting uh dynamic to college football as it continues
to evolve and they figure things out how it affects
the draft and how scouts approach it. So a lot
of things are evolving and kind of a work in
progress that'll alter how these next few drafts go.

Speaker 3 (40:18):
Do you want to give Giant fans a little tease
on what you uh what presence you're bringing them in?

Speaker 1 (40:22):
They're in your seven round mack this week?

Speaker 2 (40:25):
No. So I did a few trades, but not for
the Giants. I have them kind of sticking and picking.
I think so that they have three or six picks, right,
I believe that's whatever right now.

Speaker 1 (40:35):
I think they have one every all round, but they
but they don't have one in the seventh.

Speaker 2 (40:38):
Okay, right, yep. I have them going three offense, three defense,
which I expected to be more defensive heavy maybe going
into it, but it just the way the board played out,
It's like, oh, okay, would they really pass on this
running back here? I don't think so. So they're they're
drafted in a running back in the third round. I
haven't taken a safety in the second and then some
some quality depth on day three, so I haven't gone yes,

(41:00):
split evenly fifty to fifty offense defense. I don't know.
If I'm a Giants fan. I'm happy with the way
their mock ends up, but I'm sure they'll be split
opinion on that, and I'm sure Giants fans will let
me know about it.

Speaker 1 (41:11):
Dane, Always a pleasure, my friend.

Speaker 3 (41:13):
We appreciate the time and good luck the rest of
the way, and enjoy the draft as your year worth
of work concludes, and then you get to start on
twenty twenty.

Speaker 2 (41:22):
Five pleasures on mine, John, Thank you, Always a pleasure.

Speaker 3 (41:27):
Dan Brugler from The Athletic, thanks for joining us on
the Giants Little Podcast, brought to you by Citizens, the
official bank of the Giants.