May 23, 2024 • 24 mins
Brian Janes talks about coming out as gay after being married to a women and raising a family.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
I don't know.
(00:02):
Welcome to Coming Inside Out with Brian Janes.
And John Duerler.
You can call me Big John or you can call me John Derler, whatever you like.
You can call me Brian Jay.
You can call me Brian James, whatever you like.
So this podcast, interestingly enough, John and I were at dinner back in December.
(00:25):
It was, yeah, December.
In December. Yeah.
We, I guess we should mention first off that we're members of the Big Fathers of Los Angeles.
Yes.
And we were at dinner with several of the other members and we were kicking around the idea of doing a podcast together.
So here we are.
Yeah. And I think it's, I think this is a great idea and I'm glad we're doing this.
(00:46):
And, you know, this brings us to why are we here?
Yeah. And what are we doing?
Exactly.
So citizens of the world, we are here because we're gay men that came out, we were married to women and we came out.
We have children and we have a support group called the Gay Fathers of Los Angeles, which who was it?
(01:12):
Bob. Bob. Sorry, Bob.
Bob was a member of the Boston Gay Fathers.
And so I met him at the Eagle.
Oh, that's fine.
He said, he goes, oh my God, we're just telling our story, telling our story, what we, you know, how we came out.
We were both married to women and had children.
(01:34):
Yes.
And he goes, would you want to like co-find the Gay Fathers of LA?
I said, count me in. I'll definitely do this.
And so that's kind of why and how we're here.
Yes.
Right?
Well, that's how I met you, right?
Did he? Yes.
Where did you meet?
I met you here in your office the very first time.
No, but you met Bob, though.
(01:56):
Who did you meet first?
I met Bob through Facebook.
Got it.
Through a private Facebook page for Gay Fathers.
I think everybody in our group is 50s, 60s and 70s.
Well, I'm in my 20s, but you guys are in your 50s.
And we all lived as closeted gay men for a long period of our lives.
(02:21):
Right.
And I found him on Facebook.
I went to a meeting of his, I would say, back in either 2020 or 2021.
Yeah. And our group has grown since then.
How many we have? How many is in the group?
You know, it's not a giant group.
I think it's 40 some odd people.
I think there's also Gay Fathers worldwide, which is about 900 members.
(02:45):
Oh, really?
And there's different chapters.
Like you said, there's Gay Fathers of Boston.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
And so if you're listening to us and you don't have a Gay Fathers group
and you're looking for one, reach out to us.
Absolutely. Yeah.
So and if you have any questions, you can email us.
(03:05):
And our email address is cominginsidout at gmail.com.
So.
So coming inside out.
That's what I'd like for you to share with me.
All right.
Coming inside out, the way that this came to me was that anybody can come out.
Led by you.
I can hear you now.
(03:25):
Oh, you can hear me.
Just so you guys know, this is our first podcast.
This is our very, this is very rough.
We don't know shit about anything here.
No.
But except you, you bought all this equipment, but I wanted to get your mic in front of you
because I couldn't hear you.
And I'm thinking, oh, right.
So that's why.
Okay.
All right.
So I'm sorry.
Going back, coming inside out the name of this podcast and what's the reason behind that name?
(03:50):
Coming inside out, I chose this because I may be alone in this.
I may not be alone in this, but I really came out from the inside.
I did a lot of processing when I was coming out.
I wasn't, you know, sexually active with men until after my divorce at the age of 51.
(04:15):
So it was really my journey, my process.
I needed to be introduced to me because I had been somebody completely different my entire life.
My childhood, you know, dating my wife, being married, a father, a family man for 30 years.
So when my divorce happened and I came out as gay, I didn't know who the hell I was.
(04:39):
Right.
So it was my journey to discover who I was.
So I came out from the inside.
I like that.
I like because it's a, because we all come out differently.
Yes.
And then there's guys, there's no right or.
And some are, some are not.
And some are not out.
But it's, it's really, you know, how you came out is different from how I came out.
(05:03):
And I don't know if we want to go into that now, but I want, I want you to continue your,
you know, sharing your.
And again, this is John Derler talking to Brian.
Yes.
In case you're not looking at us.
So you at least know who's talking.
Yes.
But you, I mean, I really think, and I totally get it because when you first approached me
(05:27):
about doing this, I said, what the fuck coming inside out?
What does that mean?
What does that mean?
And I totally get it now because we all, we all have a different story and we all can relate.
Well, not, we all, I mean, I don't know if we all have a different story, but I think
there's categories.
And there's some of the similarity.
(05:48):
I mean, we all have our own story, but somewhere on that path, it has very similar experiences.
Right.
And it's just different because you came out with the inside.
I've got, how did, how did I ever come out?
You know, because that's such a loaded question.
Yes.
Because when, when I was young, I remember, and this is Southeast Texas.
(06:16):
This is the 70s.
No one was coming out.
Everyone, you know, I mean, especially Texas.
I mean, this is crazy stuff there.
And I didn't know I had no, I had no mentors.
I had no podcast, not the 70s.
No internet.
No internet.
No internet.
(06:37):
No nothing.
No one talking.
And it was all underground stuff.
It was underground.
And in my life, I was, I was raised and I was brought up as a, as a straight boy.
But when the needle moved from straight boy to, well, what's that?
(07:00):
I remember I was my brother.
He was my older brother, played football and my older brother, I love him.
My dad took off when I was four, my older brother was kind of like raised me.
But then he was raised by these redneck dudes of my mom, my mom's boyfriends.
Now I go, I can go down a wormhole here, but I want to give you a backstory here.
(07:21):
This is what I dealt with.
I mean, these people were racist.
They were mean as shit.
And are you kidding?
A gay person would get their ass killed.
Yes.
And these are the people and my mother, you know, my mother had a boyfriend and that was
his family.
I mean, they were some rednecks.
(07:44):
And, I mean, they weren't.
But it was, it was, there was a part of it that was good though.
There was part that I learned.
I learned how to cut rice.
I drive a, drive a tractor.
I mean, there was parts, but just listening to all this all the time of, of, of them being
so racist and, but getting back to when it, when, when the needle moved, I was, I was
(08:10):
that my brother, and again, my point was my brother took me everywhere.
He taught me how to fish, how to hunt, how to drive a car and everything.
And, you know, he did the best he could because he was a young kid, but anyway, he would always
bring me into, he always included me.
And so after football game, he goes, come on into the field house.
I'm going to the field house and then there was a field house, all the guys, you know,
(08:34):
taking their pads off, taking their pants off and their jock straps.
And then they're walking, swinging dicks, going into the shower.
And so I'm like, you know, I'm like, and I, you know, I was watching, you know, the male
body.
And I was like, wow, you know, he's, he's buff or he's big.
(08:59):
And that, I think right then and there was a turning point for me.
Okay.
How old were you then?
I was, was I 12, 11, 12, 11 or 12.
And that was, that was, you know, just a little bit about, oh, what's, you know, because I,
(09:22):
I looked at women, I looked at girls, I saw pretty women.
You were married.
Well, yeah, of course, exactly.
But back at that time, I wasn't married at 12.
But it was, you know, I had girlfriends and everything.
And then it was, it was, that was kind of, that was the point when I'm like questioning
(09:43):
my, my sexuality.
But I didn't question it enough.
What I did is I tamped it down, I pushed it down and I never talked it about, I never
talked about it again.
I never talked about it.
It was just something you just ignored, ignored, ignored.
And how lonely did you feel walking around with that?
(10:07):
Your teens, your twenties, I don't know when you first experimented with men.
For me, I suppressed that until my fifties, my, until I was 50 years old.
Wow.
Yeah.
I've never had an experience with a man before then.
Well, okay.
So straight dudes, they have jerk off circles.
Did you ever have, did you ever jack off circle, jerk off circle in high school?
(10:30):
No.
No.
No.
I had, no.
Or cool.
No.
I, I know that may have been in Texas.
I didn't, I didn't.
I'm serious.
It was, it wasn't happening where I went to school.
I mean, honestly, it was, you know, and that was the, the other thing I had a friend,
(10:51):
a little name, keep the names out of it.
But yeah, I think I was, it was before high school.
This was, this was junior high.
We would go over and there's a couple of us there.
We were bored.
Let's just jack off.
Okay.
We all, and we all jacked off.
Wow.
No.
I did not experience that.
Yeah.
And so there was, there was.
(11:13):
But I grew up in Glendale, California.
Maybe it's a little different there.
I don't know.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm not saying every school had a jack off circle.
Um, but did you imagine I lettered in jack off and the only class you ever got an A in
the wrong.
(11:35):
Exactly.
Oh, but, but I guess, you know, getting back, that was the first time I thought, oh, okay.
There's something there.
Well, you know, in this process, in this journey for the last four years that I've been on
and you've been on it, you may have been on it longer than me or shorter than me.
I have met so many men that are closeted.
(12:00):
I think that I'm a married man magnet now that I'm out.
And when I was married and living in the closet, I didn't know that there was other people
out there, other men out there with feelings that I was having.
I thought I was all alone.
I thought, yeah, I was screwed up.
I was fucked up.
There was something wrong with me.
(12:20):
Yeah.
Trying to get rid of it.
I'm going to outgrow it.
It's finally going to go away and it never did.
So when I finally came out, start getting into the community, talking to other gay men,
I find out for the first time in my life, I'm not alone.
It wasn't just me.
Right.
And I hear that almost every day.
Really?
(12:40):
I get people reach out to me all the time.
I'm not a hookup person.
So I'll talk you to death on all of these apps.
Right.
Right.
Of course.
So this podcast, what I would love for this to be is just a support for men that are either
(13:04):
out, that are closeted, that don't know what to do, that still think that they're alone,
that didn't know that there's an entire community of us out there.
And that's why we're here.
Yes.
We're here to be a voice, but also help because I don't know statistics.
(13:27):
I haven't done my research before this podcast, but I know there's a lot of men that have
probably committed suicide.
Absolutely.
And children that have committed suicide because it's just not acceptable being gay.
And yes, there has been leaps and bounds in the last 20 years.
(13:47):
However, there's a lot of people that are still closeted.
They don't have an outlet or anybody to talk to and to come out.
And so I think that's what our, you know, what is our mission statement or what is,
why are we here?
Why are we doing this?
And I think why we're doing this is to share our stories.
(14:10):
Yes.
So you could have done, I'll come back next.
What a big service so that people, I don't want them to be in the same position that
I was in.
Right.
Right.
And so citizens of the world, that is why we're here.
And we're going to be sharing stories about what we've gone through.
Hopefully you can identify with that.
(14:32):
And you know, this is, this is huge.
This is huge.
And, you know, I think my coming out process was really like eight, nine years ago.
And we were not sleeping in the same bed.
We were fighting.
(14:53):
We were arguing.
And, you know, was that part of, you know, was I gaslighting to create something like
this, but, you know, things were, things were not normal in our marriage, in our relationship.
And I'm embarrassed to say that I did step out of our relationship.
(15:18):
I, and again, I, I want to be truthful.
And that's, that's the whole thing is to just live your truth.
And I wasn't living my truth.
And Jill and I, maybe I shouldn't say her name, but anyway, anyway, my wife came to me
(15:40):
one day and I had been hooking up with men and we were not sleeping together and we were
in an argument, fighting or whatever.
And I haven't touched her in a while.
(16:01):
I hadn't slept with her in a while.
It's just, what are you gay?
And I know she didn't mean that as in she really thought it, but it was just something,
you know, she threw out there.
What are you gay?
And when she said that, you normally would, no, no, I'm not, because that's what we did.
(16:25):
That's what we did.
Our whole life was, was denied, denied, denied.
No, no.
And you know what?
I was fucking tired.
I was fucking tired.
I was fucking tired of not being true and being dishonest to her, being dishonest to
(16:45):
myself.
And when she said, what are you gay?
And I said, I don't know.
Wow.
And she did not expect that answer.
She didn't expect it.
And she's like, what?
And I said, I don't know.
And, you know, she flipped out.
(17:07):
Yes.
Normally any wife would do, married to a man.
She just, she couldn't believe it.
I mean, it just devastated her.
And so we talked about it, but she, now she started thinking like, what's going on?
(17:28):
Is he gay?
Has he been cheating on me?
What, you know, and she did.
She went into my, she went into my private email that I created an email that I was
looking up with men.
And this is Craigslist days.
Yes.
And so I was, you know, meeting and she, she, after that conversation about a couple days
(17:56):
later, she started doing her research without talking to me about it.
She went into my computer.
She found all of the emails, thousands of emails of chatting with guys and what I was,
what I liked sexually.
I mean, this was everything.
And she, she found everything.
(18:18):
Things that I didn't even remember.
And this is very common amongst the men that we talked to.
And a lot of the men were found out by their wives.
They got caught.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, men, men are fucking stupid.
I mean, don't get me.
I mean, how about straight men?
(18:40):
I like this.
Yeah, I mean, seriously.
I mean, you know, you're going to get caught.
Let me just put that out there.
Straight people, gay people, you're going to cheat.
You're going to get caught.
You're just going to get caught.
Yes.
And, you know, maybe we, did we want to get caught?
Maybe that was some, who knows, psychological, you know, deep down, or was it, was it something
(19:05):
that I wanted to get caught to get it out, to help me come out?
Yes.
Did I use someone else to?
Well, I don't know who said this.
I've heard this several times before and I've used it.
I think the universe pulls at you to, to respond.
And when you don't respond, the universe pushes you.
(19:26):
So the universe pushed you because you needed to come out.
Yeah.
So it had probably been signaling you for a long time.
Yeah.
You ignored it.
Right.
Well, and yeah, we, we ignored.
You ran from it.
You know, we all do that.
We don't want to face that.
We don't want to face it.
And I know straight men or men that are, claim that they're straight, but they're, they're
(19:51):
exploring, they're going to stick to that story.
Yes.
I mean, oh, deny, deny, deny.
Completely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so, so that's, that's how she found out and how I, you know, basically came out.
Yeah.
(20:12):
I came out to her, came up to the, and she, in an argument, in an argument, in an argument.
And, you know, she's, thank God she is a loving, has empathy, sympathy.
She had that for me.
Now we have, this is very important.
(20:32):
We have two boys.
Yeah.
And a lot of the men that are gay are, that are living a straight life and they have children.
You know, that's, that's very, I mean, I was a horrible example of not living my
truth to my sons.
Yes.
And you're hiding a piece of yourself.
(20:55):
So you're not able to completely share who you are.
Right.
Because you're hiding a portion of yourself.
Exactly.
And, you know, your sexuality isn't 100% of who you are.
Your sexuality is a percentage of who you are, but still, you're true authentic self.
You weren't able to be because you were keeping a portion of you from everybody else around
(21:15):
you.
Hey, I'm a good motherfucker.
Yeah.
I'm a good guy.
I'm truly a good person.
But I did some, I did bad things.
I mean, at the end of the day, it was wrong of me to, to stray.
And I totally did that.
But that was, you know, and, and getting back to the boys, that was, I had to, I had to
(21:39):
tell them my truth.
Now what was the process of us?
Well, let's get to that.
I mean, this episode is her teaser episode, right?
Yeah, I think that should be the thing.
We want to get people to come back and hear more of our stories because you have, you
have a great story to tell.
I do.
I do.
I have a great story and I'm really good looking if you guys are listening to us from the
(22:03):
moment.
We're both single gaming in Los Angeles.
Very handsome men.
But yeah, I think, what's our time run on this?
What are we doing?
We're at 22 minutes.
So I think you're going to.
This was pretty good first.
You too.
Yeah, but I want to get, let's, let's get more into yours.
I felt like I dominated my story.
(22:25):
I don't think you dominated.
But the next, the next podcast, that's what we'll do.
We'll, we'll.
Citizens, if you're listening right now.
Yes.
The next podcast we're going to talk about Brian.
Well, we're going to talk about both of us.
We're going to keep this conversation going, but you know, we've been kicking this around
for a while, so if this is something that resonates with you, yes, we have other gay
(22:48):
fathers on here.
We are.
We've like, you've met other gay fathers.
I've met other gay fathers.
Not all in the Los Angeles area.
There are, you know, people that are still in the closet that don't want to participate
on this.
Yeah.
But we've talked about having a doctor on our show to talk about different.
Well, to talk about.
(23:10):
Well, I don't know.
He'll give you a part time.
Yeah, he'll give you, he'll do a demo on you.
But you know, we can talk about all the different medications that are out there.
Absolutely.
All the STDs that are floating around.
And guys, there's a lot of this.
Preventative going on.
And I don't want to get back into this again, but this is very important with the STDs that
(23:30):
are out there that if you're going to be bringing that back home.
Yes.
Well, if you were married.
Yeah.
You know, bringing that it is.
Yes.
It's insane.
So we have a lot to talk about.
Therapist, you know, before we go, I was on Scruff earlier today, scrolling.
And there is a life coach that works predominantly with gay men.
(23:57):
It might be fun to have on.
Yeah.
Right?
Get a life coach on here to talk about.
You know, people, I mean, depression, suicide, rampant.
I have that on my list of topics.
No, there's a lot to talk about.
Yeah.
And so if there's any, what do we, what do we say here?
If anybody's listening and they want to, how would they get ahold of us?
(24:18):
Well, you can email us because listen, we've heard, I've heard hundreds of stories of men
in the closet coming out, wanting to come out, not wanting to come out.
So you can email us coming inside out at gmail.com.
Right.
All right.
Good.
(24:38):
Thanks.
I'm John Derler.
And we'll see you next week.
Thank you for listening.
Bye guys.
I don't know.
(00:02):
Welcome to Coming Inside Out with Brian Janes.
And John Duerler.
You can call me Big John or you can call me John Derler, whatever you like.
You can call me Brian Jay.
You can call me Brian James, whatever you like.
So this podcast, interestingly enough, John and I were at dinner back in December.
(00:25):
It was, yeah, December.
In December. Yeah.
We, I guess we should mention first off that we're members of the Big Fathers of Los Angeles.
Yes.
And we were at dinner with several of the other members and we were kicking around the idea of doing a podcast together.
So here we are.
Yeah. And I think it's, I think this is a great idea and I'm glad we're doing this.
(00:46):
And, you know, this brings us to why are we here?
Yeah. And what are we doing?
Exactly.
So citizens of the world, we are here because we're gay men that came out, we were married to women and we came out.
We have children and we have a support group called the Gay Fathers of Los Angeles, which who was it?
(01:12):
Bob. Bob. Sorry, Bob.
Bob was a member of the Boston Gay Fathers.
And so I met him at the Eagle.
Oh, that's fine.
He said, he goes, oh my God, we're just telling our story, telling our story, what we, you know, how we came out.
We were both married to women and had children.
(01:34):
Yes.
And he goes, would you want to like co-find the Gay Fathers of LA?
I said, count me in. I'll definitely do this.
And so that's kind of why and how we're here.
Yes.
Right?
Well, that's how I met you, right?
Did he? Yes.
Where did you meet?
I met you here in your office the very first time.
No, but you met Bob, though.
(01:56):
Who did you meet first?
I met Bob through Facebook.
Got it.
Through a private Facebook page for Gay Fathers.
I think everybody in our group is 50s, 60s and 70s.
Well, I'm in my 20s, but you guys are in your 50s.
And we all lived as closeted gay men for a long period of our lives.
(02:21):
Right.
And I found him on Facebook.
I went to a meeting of his, I would say, back in either 2020 or 2021.
Yeah. And our group has grown since then.
How many we have? How many is in the group?
You know, it's not a giant group.
I think it's 40 some odd people.
I think there's also Gay Fathers worldwide, which is about 900 members.
(02:45):
Oh, really?
And there's different chapters.
Like you said, there's Gay Fathers of Boston.
Yeah.
So, yeah.
And so if you're listening to us and you don't have a Gay Fathers group
and you're looking for one, reach out to us.
Absolutely. Yeah.
So and if you have any questions, you can email us.
(03:05):
And our email address is cominginsidout at gmail.com.
So.
So coming inside out.
That's what I'd like for you to share with me.
All right.
Coming inside out, the way that this came to me was that anybody can come out.
Led by you.
I can hear you now.
(03:25):
Oh, you can hear me.
Just so you guys know, this is our first podcast.
This is our very, this is very rough.
We don't know shit about anything here.
No.
But except you, you bought all this equipment, but I wanted to get your mic in front of you
because I couldn't hear you.
And I'm thinking, oh, right.
So that's why.
Okay.
All right.
So I'm sorry.
Going back, coming inside out the name of this podcast and what's the reason behind that name?
(03:50):
Coming inside out, I chose this because I may be alone in this.
I may not be alone in this, but I really came out from the inside.
I did a lot of processing when I was coming out.
I wasn't, you know, sexually active with men until after my divorce at the age of 51.
(04:15):
So it was really my journey, my process.
I needed to be introduced to me because I had been somebody completely different my entire life.
My childhood, you know, dating my wife, being married, a father, a family man for 30 years.
So when my divorce happened and I came out as gay, I didn't know who the hell I was.
(04:39):
Right.
So it was my journey to discover who I was.
So I came out from the inside.
I like that.
I like because it's a, because we all come out differently.
Yes.
And then there's guys, there's no right or.
And some are, some are not.
And some are not out.
But it's, it's really, you know, how you came out is different from how I came out.
(05:03):
And I don't know if we want to go into that now, but I want, I want you to continue your,
you know, sharing your.
And again, this is John Derler talking to Brian.
Yes.
In case you're not looking at us.
So you at least know who's talking.
Yes.
But you, I mean, I really think, and I totally get it because when you first approached me
(05:27):
about doing this, I said, what the fuck coming inside out?
What does that mean?
What does that mean?
And I totally get it now because we all, we all have a different story and we all can relate.
Well, not, we all, I mean, I don't know if we all have a different story, but I think
there's categories.
And there's some of the similarity.
(05:48):
I mean, we all have our own story, but somewhere on that path, it has very similar experiences.
Right.
And it's just different because you came out with the inside.
I've got, how did, how did I ever come out?
You know, because that's such a loaded question.
Yes.
Because when, when I was young, I remember, and this is Southeast Texas.
(06:16):
This is the 70s.
No one was coming out.
Everyone, you know, I mean, especially Texas.
I mean, this is crazy stuff there.
And I didn't know I had no, I had no mentors.
I had no podcast, not the 70s.
No internet.
No internet.
No internet.
(06:37):
No nothing.
No one talking.
And it was all underground stuff.
It was underground.
And in my life, I was, I was raised and I was brought up as a, as a straight boy.
But when the needle moved from straight boy to, well, what's that?
(07:00):
I remember I was my brother.
He was my older brother, played football and my older brother, I love him.
My dad took off when I was four, my older brother was kind of like raised me.
But then he was raised by these redneck dudes of my mom, my mom's boyfriends.
Now I go, I can go down a wormhole here, but I want to give you a backstory here.
(07:21):
This is what I dealt with.
I mean, these people were racist.
They were mean as shit.
And are you kidding?
A gay person would get their ass killed.
Yes.
And these are the people and my mother, you know, my mother had a boyfriend and that was
his family.
I mean, they were some rednecks.
(07:44):
And, I mean, they weren't.
But it was, it was, there was a part of it that was good though.
There was part that I learned.
I learned how to cut rice.
I drive a, drive a tractor.
I mean, there was parts, but just listening to all this all the time of, of, of them being
so racist and, but getting back to when it, when, when the needle moved, I was, I was
(08:10):
that my brother, and again, my point was my brother took me everywhere.
He taught me how to fish, how to hunt, how to drive a car and everything.
And, you know, he did the best he could because he was a young kid, but anyway, he would always
bring me into, he always included me.
And so after football game, he goes, come on into the field house.
I'm going to the field house and then there was a field house, all the guys, you know,
(08:34):
taking their pads off, taking their pants off and their jock straps.
And then they're walking, swinging dicks, going into the shower.
And so I'm like, you know, I'm like, and I, you know, I was watching, you know, the male
body.
And I was like, wow, you know, he's, he's buff or he's big.
(08:59):
And that, I think right then and there was a turning point for me.
Okay.
How old were you then?
I was, was I 12, 11, 12, 11 or 12.
And that was, that was, you know, just a little bit about, oh, what's, you know, because I,
(09:22):
I looked at women, I looked at girls, I saw pretty women.
You were married.
Well, yeah, of course, exactly.
But back at that time, I wasn't married at 12.
But it was, you know, I had girlfriends and everything.
And then it was, it was, that was kind of, that was the point when I'm like questioning
(09:43):
my, my sexuality.
But I didn't question it enough.
What I did is I tamped it down, I pushed it down and I never talked it about, I never
talked about it again.
I never talked about it.
It was just something you just ignored, ignored, ignored.
And how lonely did you feel walking around with that?
(10:07):
Your teens, your twenties, I don't know when you first experimented with men.
For me, I suppressed that until my fifties, my, until I was 50 years old.
Wow.
Yeah.
I've never had an experience with a man before then.
Well, okay.
So straight dudes, they have jerk off circles.
Did you ever have, did you ever jack off circle, jerk off circle in high school?
(10:30):
No.
No.
No.
I had, no.
Or cool.
No.
I, I know that may have been in Texas.
I didn't, I didn't.
I'm serious.
It was, it wasn't happening where I went to school.
I mean, honestly, it was, you know, and that was the, the other thing I had a friend,
(10:51):
a little name, keep the names out of it.
But yeah, I think I was, it was before high school.
This was, this was junior high.
We would go over and there's a couple of us there.
We were bored.
Let's just jack off.
Okay.
We all, and we all jacked off.
Wow.
No.
I did not experience that.
Yeah.
And so there was, there was.
(11:13):
But I grew up in Glendale, California.
Maybe it's a little different there.
I don't know.
Yeah.
I mean, I'm not saying every school had a jack off circle.
Um, but did you imagine I lettered in jack off and the only class you ever got an A in
the wrong.
(11:35):
Exactly.
Oh, but, but I guess, you know, getting back, that was the first time I thought, oh, okay.
There's something there.
Well, you know, in this process, in this journey for the last four years that I've been on
and you've been on it, you may have been on it longer than me or shorter than me.
I have met so many men that are closeted.
(12:00):
I think that I'm a married man magnet now that I'm out.
And when I was married and living in the closet, I didn't know that there was other people
out there, other men out there with feelings that I was having.
I thought I was all alone.
I thought, yeah, I was screwed up.
I was fucked up.
There was something wrong with me.
(12:20):
Yeah.
Trying to get rid of it.
I'm going to outgrow it.
It's finally going to go away and it never did.
So when I finally came out, start getting into the community, talking to other gay men,
I find out for the first time in my life, I'm not alone.
It wasn't just me.
Right.
And I hear that almost every day.
Really?
(12:40):
I get people reach out to me all the time.
I'm not a hookup person.
So I'll talk you to death on all of these apps.
Right.
Right.
Of course.
So this podcast, what I would love for this to be is just a support for men that are either
(13:04):
out, that are closeted, that don't know what to do, that still think that they're alone,
that didn't know that there's an entire community of us out there.
And that's why we're here.
Yes.
We're here to be a voice, but also help because I don't know statistics.
(13:27):
I haven't done my research before this podcast, but I know there's a lot of men that have
probably committed suicide.
Absolutely.
And children that have committed suicide because it's just not acceptable being gay.
And yes, there has been leaps and bounds in the last 20 years.
(13:47):
However, there's a lot of people that are still closeted.
They don't have an outlet or anybody to talk to and to come out.
And so I think that's what our, you know, what is our mission statement or what is,
why are we here?
Why are we doing this?
And I think why we're doing this is to share our stories.
(14:10):
Yes.
So you could have done, I'll come back next.
What a big service so that people, I don't want them to be in the same position that
I was in.
Right.
Right.
And so citizens of the world, that is why we're here.
And we're going to be sharing stories about what we've gone through.
Hopefully you can identify with that.
(14:32):
And you know, this is, this is huge.
This is huge.
And, you know, I think my coming out process was really like eight, nine years ago.
And we were not sleeping in the same bed.
We were fighting.
(14:53):
We were arguing.
And, you know, was that part of, you know, was I gaslighting to create something like
this, but, you know, things were, things were not normal in our marriage, in our relationship.
And I'm embarrassed to say that I did step out of our relationship.
(15:18):
I, and again, I, I want to be truthful.
And that's, that's the whole thing is to just live your truth.
And I wasn't living my truth.
And Jill and I, maybe I shouldn't say her name, but anyway, anyway, my wife came to me
(15:40):
one day and I had been hooking up with men and we were not sleeping together and we were
in an argument, fighting or whatever.
And I haven't touched her in a while.
(16:01):
I hadn't slept with her in a while.
It's just, what are you gay?
And I know she didn't mean that as in she really thought it, but it was just something,
you know, she threw out there.
What are you gay?
And when she said that, you normally would, no, no, I'm not, because that's what we did.
(16:25):
That's what we did.
Our whole life was, was denied, denied, denied.
No, no.
And you know what?
I was fucking tired.
I was fucking tired.
I was fucking tired of not being true and being dishonest to her, being dishonest to
(16:45):
myself.
And when she said, what are you gay?
And I said, I don't know.
Wow.
And she did not expect that answer.
She didn't expect it.
And she's like, what?
And I said, I don't know.
And, you know, she flipped out.
(17:07):
Yes.
Normally any wife would do, married to a man.
She just, she couldn't believe it.
I mean, it just devastated her.
And so we talked about it, but she, now she started thinking like, what's going on?
(17:28):
Is he gay?
Has he been cheating on me?
What, you know, and she did.
She went into my, she went into my private email that I created an email that I was
looking up with men.
And this is Craigslist days.
Yes.
And so I was, you know, meeting and she, she, after that conversation about a couple days
(17:56):
later, she started doing her research without talking to me about it.
She went into my computer.
She found all of the emails, thousands of emails of chatting with guys and what I was,
what I liked sexually.
I mean, this was everything.
And she, she found everything.
(18:18):
Things that I didn't even remember.
And this is very common amongst the men that we talked to.
And a lot of the men were found out by their wives.
They got caught.
Yeah.
Well, I mean, men, men are fucking stupid.
I mean, don't get me.
I mean, how about straight men?
(18:40):
I like this.
Yeah, I mean, seriously.
I mean, you know, you're going to get caught.
Let me just put that out there.
Straight people, gay people, you're going to cheat.
You're going to get caught.
You're just going to get caught.
Yes.
And, you know, maybe we, did we want to get caught?
Maybe that was some, who knows, psychological, you know, deep down, or was it, was it something
(19:05):
that I wanted to get caught to get it out, to help me come out?
Yes.
Did I use someone else to?
Well, I don't know who said this.
I've heard this several times before and I've used it.
I think the universe pulls at you to, to respond.
And when you don't respond, the universe pushes you.
(19:26):
So the universe pushed you because you needed to come out.
Yeah.
So it had probably been signaling you for a long time.
Yeah.
You ignored it.
Right.
Well, and yeah, we, we ignored.
You ran from it.
You know, we all do that.
We don't want to face that.
We don't want to face it.
And I know straight men or men that are, claim that they're straight, but they're, they're
(19:51):
exploring, they're going to stick to that story.
Yes.
I mean, oh, deny, deny, deny.
Completely.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And so, so that's, that's how she found out and how I, you know, basically came out.
Yeah.
(20:12):
I came out to her, came up to the, and she, in an argument, in an argument, in an argument.
And, you know, she's, thank God she is a loving, has empathy, sympathy.
She had that for me.
Now we have, this is very important.
(20:32):
We have two boys.
Yeah.
And a lot of the men that are gay are, that are living a straight life and they have children.
You know, that's, that's very, I mean, I was a horrible example of not living my
truth to my sons.
Yes.
And you're hiding a piece of yourself.
(20:55):
So you're not able to completely share who you are.
Right.
Because you're hiding a portion of yourself.
Exactly.
And, you know, your sexuality isn't 100% of who you are.
Your sexuality is a percentage of who you are, but still, you're true authentic self.
You weren't able to be because you were keeping a portion of you from everybody else around
(21:15):
you.
Hey, I'm a good motherfucker.
Yeah.
I'm a good guy.
I'm truly a good person.
But I did some, I did bad things.
I mean, at the end of the day, it was wrong of me to, to stray.
And I totally did that.
But that was, you know, and, and getting back to the boys, that was, I had to, I had to
(21:39):
tell them my truth.
Now what was the process of us?
Well, let's get to that.
I mean, this episode is her teaser episode, right?
Yeah, I think that should be the thing.
We want to get people to come back and hear more of our stories because you have, you
have a great story to tell.
I do.
I do.
I have a great story and I'm really good looking if you guys are listening to us from the
(22:03):
moment.
We're both single gaming in Los Angeles.
Very handsome men.
But yeah, I think, what's our time run on this?
What are we doing?
We're at 22 minutes.
So I think you're going to.
This was pretty good first.
You too.
Yeah, but I want to get, let's, let's get more into yours.
I felt like I dominated my story.
(22:25):
I don't think you dominated.
But the next, the next podcast, that's what we'll do.
We'll, we'll.
Citizens, if you're listening right now.
Yes.
The next podcast we're going to talk about Brian.
Well, we're going to talk about both of us.
We're going to keep this conversation going, but you know, we've been kicking this around
for a while, so if this is something that resonates with you, yes, we have other gay
(22:48):
fathers on here.
We are.
We've like, you've met other gay fathers.
I've met other gay fathers.
Not all in the Los Angeles area.
There are, you know, people that are still in the closet that don't want to participate
on this.
Yeah.
But we've talked about having a doctor on our show to talk about different.
Well, to talk about.
(23:10):
Well, I don't know.
He'll give you a part time.
Yeah, he'll give you, he'll do a demo on you.
But you know, we can talk about all the different medications that are out there.
Absolutely.
All the STDs that are floating around.
And guys, there's a lot of this.
Preventative going on.
And I don't want to get back into this again, but this is very important with the STDs that
(23:30):
are out there that if you're going to be bringing that back home.
Yes.
Well, if you were married.
Yeah.
You know, bringing that it is.
Yes.
It's insane.
So we have a lot to talk about.
Therapist, you know, before we go, I was on Scruff earlier today, scrolling.
And there is a life coach that works predominantly with gay men.
(23:57):
It might be fun to have on.
Yeah.
Right?
Get a life coach on here to talk about.
You know, people, I mean, depression, suicide, rampant.
I have that on my list of topics.
No, there's a lot to talk about.
Yeah.
And so if there's any, what do we, what do we say here?
If anybody's listening and they want to, how would they get ahold of us?
(24:18):
Well, you can email us because listen, we've heard, I've heard hundreds of stories of men
in the closet coming out, wanting to come out, not wanting to come out.
So you can email us coming inside out at gmail.com.
Right.
All right.
Good.
(24:38):
Thanks.
I'm John Derler.
And we'll see you next week.
Thank you for listening.
Bye guys.
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