Revolutionizing NEMT and the Transportation Landscape, with Dan Reid

Episode Transcript
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James Blain (00:27):
Hello everybody and welcome to a very special
edition of the GroundTransportation Podcast.
Um, we are actually shootingthis from the Phoenix Hotel in
Washington, dc.
It's been a really eventfulcouple days.
We just had the NationalLimousine Association event.
We went, uh, personally I wentdirectly from that event day on
the hill, coming right back,turning around, doing the

(00:48):
legislative fly in for theTransportation Alliance.
And one of the cool things aboutthis episode is I'm joined here
by Dan Reed, who is thepresident of the Transportation
Alliance.
We're gonna talk to you guys alittle bit about Day On the
Hill, kind of give you ourfeedback, how it went, how those
kind of ideas that we presentedto those legislators have gone.
Um, but first, Dan, this is yourfirst time on the podcast.

Dan Reid (01:10):
Yes, it is.
Thank you.
Thanks, James.
I'm good to be here.

It's, it's great to have you.
I'm pretty excited to have youon.
You know this, this podcast isfocused a lot kind of on the
chauffeur space and the motorcoach space, so I think it's
really exciting to get to kindof focus on a different part of
the pastor ground jazz stationindustry.
So I think I'd love to startwith your story, right?
Where do you sit?
How do you end up at the top ofthis association, right?
I know you do a lot of thingsand I'm not really teeing you up

(01:35):
here.
So tell us a little bit abouthow you got started, your
company, your background, andwhat you do.

Dan Reid (01:41):
So I, I did not get into, uh, non-emergency medical
transportation in thetraditional sense.
I was, uh, spent 30 years in, inaccounting, mergers and
acquisition work.
And, uh, if you recall, 2008 wasnot a great year for the
financial markets.

a great year for much energy.

Dan Reid (01:57):
No.
And, uh, I found myself all of asudden, uh, without a job.
And, uh, so I drove around thecountry for a year and, and saw
the country and came back and.
Basically realized I had not,uh, was not ready to retire.
Um, so I thought I'd get into abusiness that I could figure out
and understand.
At the time, non-emergency, uh,medical transportation, uh, I

(02:18):
was looking for three things in,in an industry.
I wanted an industry that wasfragmented.
I wanted an industry that wasnot employing technology to its
max.
And I wanted an industry thatwould cater to the, uh, the, uh,
aging, uh, baby boomerpopulation.
Yep.
Well, little did I know, uh,that described NEMT to a T back
in 2010.
So I, I, I got into it.

(02:39):
I looked at around in a coupleopportunities.
We were living in California.
My kids, uh, went to school downsouth at Alabama.
And, uh, Ole miss roll, Todd HotTodd.
And, uh.
I decided, well, you know, I'llstart a company in Mississippi
and, uh, my wife's from NewOrleans originally, so it, it
was good to get back to thesouth.
And, uh, we, we started fromthere and then and, uh, grew the

(03:02):
business up and in 2023 we tookover a couple companies in
Louisiana.
Okay.
The first thing I did though,when I got into the business was
realized I gotta find people whoknow what they're doing.
I gotta find people who havedone this.
And at the time, theTransportation Alliance was
then, it was called the TLPA,taxi Ity Care Transit
Association, uh, was the onlything even remotely close.

(03:23):
And so I joined up and that'swhy I started meeting people and
I realized the value ofnetworking and the value of an
association and the ability topick up the phone and call
somebody and say, Hey, I've gotthis issue.
Have you ever dealt with it?
And how did you deal with it?
And, and then I've just been anactive member ever since.
And then this last year I movedup into the presidency.

And it's really interesting that you've, you've
kind of told the story in thatway because if you start going
back to our podcast episodes, ifyou start listening to Brett,
behold, if you start listeningto any of our other guests, one
of the themes that comes up overand over and over is mentorship.
You have, you have the abilityto go through and kind of fight
your way through and figure outall the answers.

(04:05):
All of the people that we haveon that have really found
success, that really been ableto build and grow a business,
have found mentorship.
Yep.
And it's interesting because wehear this over and over again
and one of Ken, my co-hostsfavorite things to say is that
the most backwards companies areislands.
Mm-hmm.
They don't wanna join theassociation.
They think they can figure itall out on their own.

(04:26):
So I think it's reallyinteresting and really neat to
hear that for you, you've comefrom somewhere completely
different, join the association,and now you've kind of found
your way to the presidency andleading it.

Dan Reid (04:38):
A Absolutely.
I mean, there's so much that wedo at at the Transportation
Alliance, but I.
I, I always say, and we talkabout, you know, my theme this
year is drive value to our, toour members.
Um, and it is a dad joke, right?
Get it drive value to ourmembers.
But, um, it, it, you know, ofall the things we're doing, I
tell members and new members andprospective members, the number

(05:00):
one thing is the ability tonetwork.
Yeah.
The ability, you, you, um, uh,host or you co-chair our safety
and loss control, uh, committeeand, and we have a monthly
committee and people can get onthere and, and there's always a
presentation, but it's thatnetworking afterwards.
It's that questioning, it's thatanswer and it's that, hey, you
know, how do you do this?

(05:22):
And having people who can tellyou how they do it is, is just
so invaluable that if you arenot, if you're not, you get out,
you get more back than you putinto it.
And so anytime you can have aninvestment where you get more
back than you put in, you mightas well take advantage of it.
And, and that's what I loveabout the association.

Well, and I think it's also worth mentioning that
this association that haschanged and evolved.
Yes.
You know, when I first got intothe industry, it was the TLP,
right?
Mm-hmm.
And back then the, the way Ikind of, obviously when I came
into transportation, I came inthrough the the black car
industry.
So I kind of had blinders on andit was Oh, those and the taxi
gas.
Yep.
And it's interesting because youbrought up, you are actually,

(05:58):
you went into the NEMT, whichfor those that don't know, the
non-emergency medicaltransportation space.
So tell us a little bit, youknow, that evolution from TLPA
and being thought of aspredominantly taxi, what is the
Transportation Alliance today?
What does it represent?
What are the different verticalsthat you guys work with?

Dan Reid (06:15):
Um, well actually I'm gonna sound very prepared, but I
just happened to go through ourmember survey and present it in
our board meeting, so I know thenumbers, but, uh, you, you're
right at, at one time it wasconsidered the taxi association
and it, and it was, and it wasvery heavily taxi associated and
they, they championed a lot ofgreat causes for the taxi
association.
About six or seven years ago,the organization realized.

(06:37):
People are doing everything.
Yep.
People are not just doing taxi,they're mixed fleets.
And that's when we switched tothe transportation alliance
that, that we, we represent a,across the board.
Up until last year, our steeringcommittees were taxi, limousine,
paratransit, you know, so taxiand on demands.
Yep.
Limousine, luxury, paratransitand, and NEMT.

(06:59):
What I realized last year beingon those committee calls was I
was hearing the same things fromthe same people on three
different calls.
Yep.
Because everyone was working incross industries, so that's why
we switch it up this year.
And that's, that really is thewhole evolution right now.
We did a survey of our membersand, and if you look at each
member, how they responded andyou gave each member an equal

(07:21):
weight.
So by that I mean a, a companylike Sea Trips.
Right.
Who, who, uh Yeah.
Does how many thousands of tripsa day.
They had the same weight assomebody with three vehicles.
But in terms of the allocation,the respondents to our survey
said that about, I think it's55, 60% of their trips are what
they consider an EMT.
Okay.
So it's a lot of companies thatused to have the name Taxi and

(07:44):
'em still do, but they now domostly an EMT trips on demand.
Taxi is still the, by far, thesecond, uh, highest piece.
And then of course we have, um,uh, student transportation, uh,
black car, uh, micro transitshuttles, uh, and, and, and the
whole, uh, wide range ofpopulation.

(08:04):
But we have morphed, we nobody,very few people are doing just
one thing.
Yeah.
Anymore.
And that's, that's what's reallyinteresting about the limes.

And I think what's what's really interesting there,
right, is if you start lookingat the past of ground
transportation Space as a whole,and this is something that came
up, you know, Ken and I were,we're sitting down, we're trying
to figure out what we're gonnado with the podcast, and we
started looking at kind of ourbusinesses and what's happened.
And we started seeing this trendprobably for me, um, I can't
speak for Ken, but for me itpopped up in about 2017.

(08:32):
Mm-hmm.
I started to notice, you know,even the black car guys were
starting to buy buses or theywere starting to look at other
places.
They're looking to see what elsethey could do.
And as a result of that, youstart seeing this mixed fleet
become a thing.
You start seeing mixed fleetmore and more and more.
And I think we're seeing now aperiod of consolidation, right.
We're seeing a lot of companiescome together, and I think the

(08:54):
future of the transportationindustry is transportation
companies.

Dan Reid (08:58):
I, I completely agree with you.
In fact, if you remember, I, Imet you at, at a limousine.
Absolutely.
It, it was the, the regionallimousine conferences, Florida.
And, uh, they reached out andsaid, Hey, we have members who
want to fi figure out how can wedo NEMT to supplement, uh, our
transportation.
And so I would gave her a seriesof presentations on, on how you
can use your limousine fleet todo NEMT.

(09:20):
Just two weeks ago we had agreat presentation, uh, from an
individual who was talking to usabout how we could start getting
into the affiliate program.
And, and, you know, I thoughtabout it, I was like, well, I do
any EMT.
I don't, I'm not affiliate.
And he, he said, well, wait aminute.
Some of your passengers who arein wheelchair who utilize
wheelchairs who you take to theairport, you don't think they're

(09:42):
gonna need a wheelchairtransportation at the other end?
Yeah, I'd never thought aboutit.
So we're gonna have a topic atthis year's mobilized conference
on how we can better start touse, and I can't remember what
the software is that everyoneuses in the limousine industry,
but how we can start to utilizethat software in, in the
traditional TAXI and NEMTindustry because the affiliate

(10:03):
program.
I, I'm so jealous of it in, in,in the luxury limited industry.
But, you know, it, it can startto apply in our industry, and
that's, as you say, it'spassenger transportation.
Now it ground track passengertransportation.
There's aren't taxi companies,there's not any mt companies
there.
Everybody's doing whatever.
Uh, Joe Rubino, who's been along time consulted to our, uh,

(10:24):
um, our association once made acomment to me, and it, it always
rings true.
He said, if you're sitting inyour office and you look out the
window and you see somebodyriding in the backseat of a
vehicle, your first thoughtshould be, why aren't I
transporting that person?
Yeah.
And that, that's, that's what Ithink the industry's going to.

And I think it rings true, especially for
someone kind who lives where Ido, especially on the training
side.
You see these transportationcompanies, but there's still
kind of the needs in each ofthose niche areas.
And so I think it really comesdown to understanding what each
of those niches that you'reserving need and have and how to
make them work.

(11:02):
And then understanding that, youknow, you start, and, and this
is true of black car's, true of,of everyone.
You start as a logisticsbusiness, you start of point A
to point B.
But then you start layering ontop what that unique area needs
in black car.
That's the high level, the hightouch of customer service.
Right?
For NEMT, it's going to be adifferent approach, but again,

(11:23):
if you're just looking at it asI'm getting'em from point A to
point B, you're missing thepoint.
When we had our safety and losscall, we had a huge discussion
of curb to curb versus door todoor.
Yes.
Assisting the passenger, whetheror not it's part of the
contract.
Um, and again, that's completelydifferent than what they might
think about black car, but thoseare kind of the things that
layer on and those are thethings that if you're gonna be a
mixed fleet operator, you haveto understand what's unique to

(11:46):
each area.

Dan Reid (11:47):
And that's the thing that I think is so important for
anybody in this industry.
To be part of NLA or part of theTTA.
It's understanding that, yeah,there's huge opportunities and
all across the board, and youcan get into any type of
transportation, but you betterunderstand that transportation.
Yes.
You better understand what isparticular to that
transportation.

(12:08):
If I decide I want to starttaking executives, you know,
from Hattiesburg to the airport,I, I, I need to have bottled
water in the vehicle.
I need to make sure that vehicleis, is.
Park lane clean that my driverhas, you know, a uniform that's
gonna impress them.
Um, you know, but if you'regonna go from the other side
into NEMT, you better understandwhat loading and unloading

(12:28):
insurance is.
You better understand what doorto door means.
Yeah.
And, and so there's hugeopportunity, but there's huge
responsibility and associationslike ours, like the NLA can
really assist.
And it's, again, it goes back tothat networking.
It goes back to, James, can youput me in touch with somebody
who loves black car so they cantell me what it is?

(12:48):
I don't know.
And, and the fact that, youknow, it's two calls for me to
make, one for me to ask you the,and the other one for me to call
that person.
It, it, you, you can't buy thatkind of, uh, knowledge.

No, and I, I think it's worth mentioning, you know,
it's funny'cause I saw thingshappen both ways.
So today here at the legislativefly-in, we were on the hill, you
know, representing theTransportation Alliance, and I
had a an EMT operator say, Hey,you know, I've thought about
black car.
I keep seeing suburbans, I keepseeing, you know, I want to
understand that industry.
And it was, okay, let's talkabout what's different and

(13:19):
what's the same, and then let'sfigure out who we put you in
touch with over in that area.
Ironically enough, yesterday atthe national event, when we did
their day on the hill, samething.
I had two operators that I raninto in the basement of the
Russell building and they, youknow, we talking and passing and
transportation.
Right.
Non-school bus, studenttransportation.

(13:40):
Mm-hmm.
And EMT came up and it was, Hey,let me put you in touch with the
right people with TransportationAlliance.
They have a committee on this,they have an, and so kind of
being able to direct and do thatis huge right now.
It also brings up, and we talkeda little bit about mentorship,
kind of diving now into the factthat this is the legislative fly
in for you guys, stay on thehill for NLA.

(14:01):
I think another huge thing isthat people don't realize the
high level support that you getfrom the association.
Yes.
Especially these islandcompanies.
Oh, we'll be fine.
So I, I would, I guess my thingis I know you're very involved
in that.
I know.
We'll, we'll get you to tellyour story.
At one point, I believe you weresingle handedly employing your
own lobbyist.
But why?
If someone's considering this,if someone's looking at it,

(14:24):
they're going, well, you know,it doesn't matter.
It doesn't affect me.
It's not to, why is it also justas important to be involved in
these legislative items and tohave things like Day on the Hill
or the legislative flying on topof mind and being involved.

Dan Reid (14:37):
Well, first off, it, it is gonna affect you.
I mean, you, you can say it'snot gonna affect me, but it's
going to affect you.
And this year, more than ever,and I, I think all the
associations are seeing it.
the the possibility for, uh, foractions being taken here in
Washington to affect you areexponentially higher than they
have been in the past.
So, um, even as a small company,you have the opportunity to come

(14:59):
here.
I think we had 20 statesrepresented here, so that's, you
know, 40 senators, if I'm doingmy math correctly, you know.
Yep.
At least 20, um, staterepresentatives that we got to
put in touch with.
Who, you know, represents youback home.
Yeah.
They now know, they now knowyour name.
They now know the industry.
They now understand that it'simpacting their constituents

(15:20):
back home.
NEMT may have been a, an acronymthey heard the other day.
Now it's a constituentsbusiness.
Right.
And that's huge.
And so when you're part of anassociation, you, you, you get
the leverage of that.
We have a lobbyist, a full-timelobbyist here in, in Washington,
DC and he spends, you know, allyear making these connections so

(15:42):
that we can have it.
Last night we had a packeddinner.
We had eight people, um, eight,eight, uh, different
representatives come throughand, and it was just fantastic
for them to come.
And some of'em may not, youknow, some of'em may have been
briefed on an EMT on the wayover.
That's fine.
They now know it.
They now understand it.
They now understand microtransit is an issue to us.
They now understand independentcontractors are an issue to us.

(16:05):
All those things are soimportant that, uh, that, you
know, somebody can put a name toa face to a, to a, to a
constituency, and, and whenyou're part of these
associations, you get that doingit on your own.
Um, may work locally in thestate, but it doesn't work at
the federal level.

Well, and I think, I think the big thinking is
another huge thing that, youknow, it's very old phrase,
right?
Work on the business, not in thebusiness.
It is so easy to put your headdown and work in the business.
Yes.
And even when you pull back alot of.
Of times you are not pullingback far enough, right?
Mm-hmm.
You pull back to see yourbusiness, but you don't see
what's going on around, you'reworried about your business,

(16:44):
you're still worried about yourrevenue, your numbers,
everything there.
Um, it's really interestingbecause I'm lucky enough that I
get to cross all these differentindustries.
And so I was on a, a call withthe bus industry Safety Council
and, um, under a VA and brand.
Brook Cannan brought up thisreally great point that changed
kinda the way I thought aboutit.
They were doing a call forderegulation items because

(17:05):
Republicans have, you know, themajority right now.
We're gonna see a lot of thattype of stuff.
And I said, well, you know, mythought is this really is
limited to things that are gonnaimpact us now that could be
removed, that could be pulledout.
And Brandon said, well, butthink long term.
Think about what you're wantingto do, even if it's not
something that directly fitsthat.
Exactly.

(17:26):
If you are bringing it up, ifyou're putting it on the table,
if you're getting it in front ofthem, these are topics that
you're getting on their mind tothe point you just made.
Even if I go in there and I, youknow, there's a lot of action in
dc, a lot of the visits that wehad, we weren't able to actually
sit down with legislators.
So we've got their staffers,we've got, you know, the
different people involved in theoffice.
But if I'm able to reach throughto one of those people and that

(17:49):
person is involved inlegislation or they go back to
their legislator and they say,Hey, we, you know, I talked to
this guy and they brought thisup, and the next time the bill
or something come through thattouches it, mm-hmm.
You've got a huge impact.
And further than that, if youare able to take some of these
topics.
Bring'em top of mind.
For example, you know, one ofthe things that we were looking

(18:10):
for when we were here is we weretalking about Medicaid and
Medicare, right?
One of the interesting thingsthat came up is we actually
found that even though our goalwas to pitch someone when we
were in there with a staffer, itbecame, well, you know, this
isn't necessarily what I'mlooking for.
Okay, well, can you help usunderstand if this isn't
something that the specificperson that you are working for

(18:31):
is interested in?
Who are we looking at?
What do we want?
And he said, well, this is gonnabe on the house side, and here's
what you need to know.
They're focused on the numbers,they're focused on the cutting.
So when you talk to them, here'show you need to pitch it.
Here's how you need to do it.
And so it was really interestingthat we went in trying to, you
know, pitch and sell and itreally became, hey.

(18:51):
I'm not the right person, butI'm gonna equip you and teach
you and give you what you need.
Ironically enough, whathappened?
We ended up crossing the capitolon, now we're on the house side.
Now we know how to present it.
Now we're even more effective.
And the big thing there, likeyou said, these are all things
that are impact us.

Dan Reid (19:08):
Right.
Yeah, no, it, it, you know, youbrought up Medicaid and it, it
was, uh, very interestingbecause our, our, what we're
bringing to Medicaid and one ofour big things that we, you
know, our, our position on thisis.
We want to have it done right.
We have a lot of ideas, a lotof, um, uh, things we've been

(19:28):
trying to push for years tobring technology into Medicaid,
to bring technology into theproviders, to be able to
identify and, and eliminatefraud, waste, and abuse.
But technology lacked in thisindustry, right?
And, and we, you know, we.
we.
encourage it.
Uh, because if you have thetechnology, you can start to
identify all these things.

(19:49):
So, you know, we're, we weren'tthere saying, well, look, don't,
don't do anything.
But we were saying do itstrategically.
Right?
That was our big piece.
Do it strategically.
Let's find where there is wasteand abuse and let's eliminate
that.
Um, let's not go in with thechainsaw.
Let's go in with the scalpel.
But there's a lot that can becut out.
There's a lot, um, you know, alot, a lot of fat on the bone

(20:11):
that we can cut out, but let'sdo it correctly.
And, and I think that reallyresonated with people was that
one, we want, the technology'sthere, uh, we have the desire to
do it, and it's going to savemoney, right?
And, and it's not gonna cutbenefits to do it.
You don't have to cut benefitsto people to do it.
You just have to make thingsmore efficient.
So it, it, it was, um, it wasvery, I I think that resonated

(20:33):
very well with a lot of, uh,people.
That was one of our big issuesthis year that, you know, um, is
on the top of mind of a lot ofpeople.

And I, and I think it's worth probably backing up
a, a step.
I know, uh, obviously we've,we've probably got some people
that do non-emergency medicaltransportation or that business,
but help, you know, for thosethat aren't familiar with this
business, can you kind of layout how it works in terms of why
is Medicaid Medicare involved?
Where does the work come from?
How does, how does it kind of,that hierarchy work from?
Where do trips come from?

(21:00):
How do they get paid for?
What does that fulfillment looklike?

Dan Reid (21:04):
So Medicaid, it, you know, is a, um, primarily a
financial disa, uh, disabilityneed, uh, to become eligible.
Yeah.
Um, Medicare, uh, which I know alot about now.
I turned 65 2 years ago, so Iget a lot of email on it.
It, you get, you become eligiblefor it at a certain age.
Right.
Um, so Medicare is, uh, there isnot any MT right now in

(21:28):
Medicare.
Uh, adults on Medicare eitherhave Medicare Advantage plans
that get them that, or for basicMedicare, you don't get, uh,
transportation as a coverage.
But for Medicaid it is, uh.
2019, we got it codified as a,as a, um, be a Medicaid benefit
that was put in into the code sothat it can't be cut as a

(21:50):
benefit.
Uh, doesn't mean you can't havecuts to the amounts, but you
can't cut it.
And that's state versus federaltoo, right?
Well, that, that's at, at thefederal level that it, uh, me,
NEMT was codified into theMedicaid.
But you, where it comes from isthat the people who are eligible
for Medicaid, um, and everystate does it differently, you
know?
Right.
Well, they, there's a lot ofdifferent ways to do it.

(22:12):
Um, and, and that's one of thebig frustrations we have is it's
the same trip you're doing, butit's done differently.
You know, I have companies inMississippi and companies in
Louisiana, a company inMississippi, company in
Louisiana.
And I can't use my drivers inLouisiana and Mississippi or my
drivers in Mississippi andLouisiana.
Uh, not because they're notqualified, but because they have
different credentialingrequirements in each state.

(22:34):
They're doing the same trips,they're picking people up,
they're driving them, but peoplerequire different information
for the report.
But Medicaid, uh, if you'reMedicaid eligible and you need
the transportation now, that'sthe important thing to remember
with NEMT.
It's a small percentage of theindividuals who are on Medicaid
who use NEMT.
However, it is that percentageof individuals who desperately

(22:57):
need the transportation.
These are people who otherwisecannot get to medical
appointments.
I threw out a number thismorning at our meeting and a lot
of people, uh, heard it for thefirst time, but for every 30,000
people who use Medicaid to getto dialysis, it saves Medicaid
$40 million a month,$480 milliona year for every 30,000 people

(23:17):
going to dialysis on Medicaid.
And, and you know it, because ifthey're not going to Medicaid on
dialysis and they're notgetting, you know, I, I'd love
to say we're making thousands ontrips.
We're not making, we we're, youknow, we'd love a triple digit
number on, on a trip when we getpaid, but you know, us to take
someone to and from dialysis,depending on how far the trip

(23:38):
is.
But you compare that to the costof not going to dialysis and now
you're taking an ambulance tothe emergency room.
Yep.
So anyone who, you know, missesdialysis appointments quite
often ends up in the emergencyroom.
So the NEMT is an essential partof Medicaid.
One of the things we tell ourdrivers is you are part of the
healthcare system.

(23:58):
You are the first part of thehealthcare system and the last
part of the healthcare system.
You know, the doctor obviouslyis very important, but if
someone doesn't get to thedoctor, the doctor doesn't, you
know, get to do what they can dobest.
So it's, you know, our tripscome down, they come down.
In some states they're brokers.
In some states, uh, you canbuild directly to Medicaid.

(24:19):
Um, but there's very, it,there's very precise ways in
which you have to capture theinformation.
A lot of it's still captured insome areas on paper.
Um, and that's where, you know,the, the problems come in if you
have to digitize everything,it's a lot easier to audit
things when it's on digital.
Yeah.
Um, so, you know, that's, that'swhere we see a lot of

(24:39):
opportunity to make efficienciesin, in any MT transportation
with Medicaid.

And I, I think, you know, kind of beyond that
specific part of theconversation, I think one of the
things that we see, and we seeit across all of transportation,
is there's a lack of applying orbeing on the latest technology.
You know, I'm not, it, it wouldbe, would be unfair to say that,
that, you know, the industry'sstill on paper.
They're not, um, most of thepeople across the different

(25:03):
verticals.
On different software platforms,but one of the things we hear,
we hear it on the Motor Coachside, we hear it on the NMT
side, we hear it on studenttransportation, we hear it on
school everywhere.
You hear there's a lack ofcommunication between the
systems.
There's a lack of adoption insystems.
Mm-hmm.
Um, I can tell you, you know,one of the things I hear all the
time, you hear too, and we, we,I think you're one of the people

(25:23):
that supports it with me is, youknow, there's a lack of
telematics and cameras andpeople using that technology and
they view that as a cost or achange.
And I think a real drive inmindset, at least that I always
try to make, you know, it's thesame thing with training.
People tell me training costsmoney.
Well, no, no, not at all.

(25:43):
You got it wrong.
Training's an investment to saveyou money, the better you can
train.
The better you can get peopledoing what they're supposed to
do, the better you can monitorthat, the better you can report
on that.
The better you can track that,the better you're gonna run as a
company.
And I think this kind of comesthrough here as well.
And that a lot of this call for,you know, change and cutting
costs and things like that.

(26:04):
One of the things I brought uptoday when I was having a
conversation is, you know, it'skind of the idea of I'm gonna
cut my nose off despite my face.
Mm-hmm.
If I'm gonna go in and I'm gonnacut funding and we're, Hey guys,
look, and, and we see this allthe time in training.
We just saved a bunch of money.
You know, we haven't had anaccident in so long.
We cut back the trainingprogram, we're not gonna train

(26:24):
anymore.
And then things typically gofine for about six months.
It's just like if a pro athletedecided they were gonna stop
practicing, it's kind of thatslow decline until there's that
big wake up call.
And I think a lot of theselegislative issues that come up,
you know, sometimes you havetimes where there are, there's
an opportunity for us to comeout and share what's gonna

(26:48):
happen and represent theindustry and bring that up.
And it amazes me becauseregardless of your industry, you
would think that everyone wouldtry to go to these events.
I mean, I, I think you and Iwould both agree, this is not a
high cost event.
No.
This is not the event that'sgonna cost you.
Right.
I mean, we're looking at a hotelroom and coming out, you know, I

(27:08):
guess my thing would be, youknow, if you had the opportunity
to talk to an operator that ismaybe not as involved with the
association, um, whether that bethe Transportation Alliance or
even in a different industry andthey're not doing an event like
this, you know how.
How do you kind of relay thebenefit that pulling back of,
you know, hey, getting out anddoing this is going to help you

(27:32):
in the long run, even thoughright now you might be focused
on what's right on the table infront of you.

Dan Reid (27:38):
You know, in many cases it comes back to the
comment you just made and acomment you made earlier.
Are you managing your businessor is your business managing
you?
Yeah.
Are are, are you able to, to belooking at the bigger picture?
Um, you, you referred to, youknow, training as an expense.
I wrote an article, I think itwas last year.
If you're viewing training as anexpense, you're missing the
boat.

(27:58):
Training's an investmenttraining.
Training should be an asset onyour balance sheet.
and and so it, those same kindof thoughts carry right on
through to this.
If, if you view this as anexpense to go to Washington DC
then you're not understandingwhat you're getting out of this.
You're, you're, you're missingthe opportunity to be here,

(28:18):
first off to network, but alsoyou're missing the opportunity
to have your voice heard.
To, to be here and to, um, to,uh, be able to, you know, have
your voice heard and, and toexpress your opinions to various
representatives, to yoursenators.
It, it goes across board.
The open houses we do.
If, if you look at the openhouses, how much does it cost me
to go up to Akron, or how muchdoes it cost me to go to

(28:40):
Indianapolis or wherever we'rehaving an open house.
I, I've always said that I'venever gone to one of our open
houses and not come back withmore in value than I spent to go
to the open house.
So it, it, I, I think it justcuts across the board.
You know, if I was talking tosomeone who said, well, I don't
see the value of the fly in, um,they probably get tired of it.
'cause I take'em all the wayback to, well, how are you doing

(29:02):
your training?
What are you looking, you know?
Yeah.
Are, are you running yourbusiness?
Are you running your business oris your business running?
You, do you have Ken Lucci talksabout that all the time.
Can you get away from yourbusiness or, or do you have to
be driving the vehicle?
I, I have resisted, um, forseveral years to, to get into
the vehicle.
Not because I can't and notbecause, you know, there hasn't

(29:23):
been a need, but because if Ido, then that becomes a default.
Right, and that becomes, thatbecomes something that, you
know, I start to say, well, Ican always jump in the vehicle
if I need to and do the trips,or, you know, then all of a
sudden someone's saying, well,if we need it, Dan can jump in
the vehicle.
And then I'm, then I'm not doingwhat I need to be doing and I'm
not, I'm not, you know, managingthe company the way it should be

(29:44):
run.

No, and and I think that brings up a really good
point because it's a reallyslippery slope.
You know, I worked with acompany that had a trainer and
safety manager.
Her, um, that was available.
Right.
You know, if they weren'ttraining or if they weren't
immediately doing something,dispatch had figured out, Hey, I
can run in there.
And I say, Hey, you gotta coverthis trip.
And what happens?
That person starts gettingpulled and that person starts

(30:04):
getting pulled and they, by thesecond, third time, now it's
happened.
Now it's happening.
And so I see so many owners thatkind of get caught in that trap
of when I'm gonna step away froman area, I'm going to stay away
from the area.
Mm-hmm.
I'm still gonna manage it.
I'm still gonna be involved init, but I'm not gonna be the one
to do it.
We see the same thing withmicromanaging employees.

(30:25):
Yeah.
If you are at a point in yourbusiness where you're having
people that are in charge ofareas, it's, it, I think one of
the best things that, that I'veever been taught, and I learned
it from one of my mentors, wasyou have to be willing to let
them to fail.
Because if they don't have theability to fail, you're probably

(30:45):
not giving the ability tosucceed.
Mm-hmm.
You are succeeding for them andif at the point where you are
succeeding for them, you're justbasically doing that job.
So you've gotta give them thatautonomy.

Dan Reid (30:55):
I, I had a manager several years ago.
Um, he's no longer with.
Our company, but I, he, he wouldnever, he, I was giving him all
the rope I could and he wouldnever make the decisions.
And I, I, I finally told him, Isaid, I've never had this
discussion with anyone before,but I really would love to have
you make a bad mistake.
Not a bad mistake, but amistake.

(31:15):
Because even if it's wrong,because then you're making a
decision and we can correctthose decisions, you know?
But, but he, he, he was alwaysso afraid to make a mistake, he
wouldn't make a decision.
And then I was kinda like, well,you're, you're now just a kind
of a high paid individual that'snot doing me what I need to have
done.
Yep.
And, and, and that's a toughpart about, you know, it, it's
tough to let go and then it'stough to, you know, once you let

(31:38):
go to make sure that there issomebody doing it.
'cause you, you know, you canlose a few sleepless nights
over, you know, making surethat's being done.
But it, it, that's the only wayyou can really grow your
business.
That's the only way you can lookat o other opportunities and see
what else is out there.

Well, and I, I think there's a lot to be said
about that.
Right.
You know, I think I, I mighthave had a little bit of that
mentality going into my firstmeeting here.
Right?
You're kind of intimidated.
You've got an agenda, you've gotthings to go through, and I kind
of had this moment where I tookthe deep breath and I said, Hey.
And, and you know, I think for,for entrepreneurs, for business
owners, it's easier for usbecause innately we tend to be

(32:13):
trigger pullers.
We tend to be action people.
We tend to be the ones that are,you know what, I'm gonna go in,
if I'm going a China shop,that's okay.
I'll figure out how to put itall back together.
We super glue out, but I'm gonnago for it.
I'm gonna make it work.
And I think, you know, one ofthe things that I see sometimes
is, sometimes that intimidationcomes also around our peers.
Mm-hmm.
So I see people that come toevents like this and they're

(32:35):
worried about saying somethingwrong and they're worried about
doing something wrong.
Um, I think a big part of thatis understanding that.
Inaction or lack of action isoften a decision just as much as
making a mistake.
And inaction can often be worsethan making a decision.
And so I think, you know, howthat relates to here is if you

(32:56):
don't go into this the same wayyou go into your business of I'm
gonna go have conversation withthese legislators.
I'm gonna go present what'sgoing on, I'm gonna go talk
about how it affects theirconstituents.
I'm gonna talk about.
All the things there that areaffecting me.
Now, that said, I will tell youI had a meeting and um, you
know, whether or not I saidsomething wrong is, is up for
debate.
But, you know, we went into ameeting and I said, oh, this is

(33:17):
a representative from my homestate, it'd be great.
And you know, I said, we, wereally need your support on
this.
And I don't know what it wasabout support, but man, this
staffer was triggered, right?
And it was, well, you know, wedon't support, we look at both
sides.
We have to look at everything.
We have to do this, we have todo that.
Right.
And it's interesting because Ileft that meeting thinking I

(33:39):
made a mistake.
Later on in the next meeting,someone goes, we'd really love
to get your support on this.
And yes, we'd absolutely love tosupport your industry.
So again, making thosedecisions, being able to move on
from it, being able to go fromit.
You, to a certain extent, needthat in your managers.
Yes.
Like if we're talking about if,if they're terrified to make a
mistake and they have noindecision whatsoever, or

(34:01):
they're worried that you'regonna come in and just
absolutely brave or beat themdown.
It's like I say, if you havedrivers that are afraid of you,
you have managers that areafraid of you, no one's gonna
make any growth becauseeverybody's gonna be so afraid
to Exactly.

Dan Reid (34:13):
And, and you know, again, what you were saying,
kind of remind me of anothergreat thing about being part of
an association is if you, ifthis is your first fly in, if
you're coming to your first fly,and we had a couple people this
year who it was, you don't haveto go on your own to see your
representatives and you sent us,you can team up with someone
else.
You, we had a couple people whowent to several, uh, meetings,

(34:34):
not for anybody that representedtheir company, but now they have
a year under their belt, right?
Now they come back next year andthey've seen how it's done, so
they're gonna be a lot lessintimidated.
The other thing is, and, andpeople, I, I think we all are a
little guilty of it, and, and Iknow we don't do this enough.
You've met the people here.
Now you've met their, you maybeyou just met their eight
legislative aid, but you've hadthat contact.

(34:57):
You can have, you can get intouch with your state
representative when they're backat home.
That's, you know, that's a greattime.
Uh, we, we, uh, met with arepresentative, uh, Zel.
He wasn't able to meet with ustoday'cause he was in committee
last year.
I did get to meet with them, butthree weeks ago.
I was coming outta my, uh,Friday morning, I'd take my
grandsons to breakfast everyFriday, uh, every Friday
morning.

(35:17):
And we were coming outtabreakfast, and he was there with
a group of people.
And since I'd met him before, Iwas, you know, I walked up, I
introduced my grandsons to him.
And so now you have that bond.
Now you know somebody and theyknow you.
And the next time you come to DCyou know, they'll, they'll
remember, I've got a connectionto this person.
This is someone who lives in myhometown.
This is someone who lives whereI live.

(35:38):
And that, and that's invaluable.
There's so much value to it.
But if it's your first time andyou're a little gun shy, you
don't want to go in, just tagalong with somebody, we'll,
we'll put you with somebody ormentorship if we need to.
We can, we can get somebodyfrom, um, from our, uh, uh, um,
management group to, to havesend somebody along with you.
So it, it's very easy, you know,you don't, anybody can come,

(36:00):
whether you're naturally, Hey, Ican go talk to anybody.
Or, you're a little shy.
It, it's a, having theassociation gives you that
ability.

And I think, I think you've hit on some really
great things there.
I think one of the otherimportant ones to note is even
if you're not the one leadingthe meeting, if you have people
with you, if you're showing upnow, let's get real.
If you, you've 40 people in oneoffice doesn't work now fit as
the hallway meetings, but I cantell you that.

(36:27):
I had meetings with my Kansasrepresentatives that were just
Casey from our marketing teamand myself, and those had their
benefit because they were good,they were intimate.
It was just us.
Mm-hmm.
But you get that same benefit.
Right.
We also went, you know, we wentand we met with um, Padilla from
California and uh, just like atboth days, this is a very busy

(36:49):
time.
This was not the year to meetwith the legislator.
Right, right.
It was a lot of aids.
Um, but really what happensthere, we've got a almost a full
conference table and we're ableto share stories Yes.
From the areas.
And there were people, you know,hey, they had one or two small
things to add.
You know what, I have abusiness.
We also have X amount ofemployees that's impacting us.

(37:12):
Mm-hmm.
That's impacting jobs.
We're right in the heart of thearea that you are representing.
Right.
That helps kind of drive thatimpact home just as much as
having those one-on-ones.
I think going back as well towhat you said was mentorship.
One of the neat things aboutthis is I learned different
strategies from watching theways that different people

(37:34):
present.
Mm-hmm.
The approach that we had here atthe Transportation Alliance was
different to the approach to thenational association.
Both of the approaches werehighly effective.
They both worked really well,but like so many other things in
life, there's so many differentflavors.
Ice cream, delicious.
Right.
But now you've got a tool set inyour pocket.
Exactly.
You get to try a little bit ofeach of those and pick where

(37:56):
your style fits and learn from.
Exactly.
So I think that was a huge deal.
I think the other big piece forme was, as you are going
through, you also will figureout how to look at your business
through a different lens.
Yes, exactly.
And I, I think one of thebiggest things, and I, I
remember my dad telling me thisas a kid, and it's ironic that

(38:18):
the training business, he saidone of the best things you could
do to really understand.
A topic is to teach the topicand look at it from a different
angle.
When you go in and you'retalking about your business in
terms of a legislator, you arenot selling your business,
you're not doing it in the sameway you would when you're going
out.
Mm-hmm.
You are talking about the impacton the community, the impact on

(38:39):
the constituents, how thischange is going to affect people
back.
Right.
Exactly.
And they want, a lot of timesthey wanna know, hey, well,
alright, well tell me about howyou impacted the community.
One of the things that came upin our very last meeting was,
you know, you've talked aboutsome of the larger cities.
What about the people in therural areas?
Right.
What about the ones in the smalltowns?

(39:00):
What about, you know, theeveryday person out there that's
not gonna be in a big community?
And so that matters.
Now let me ask you though, I, Ifound a couple takeaways.
I think the biggest takeaway forme was that when you come to an
event like this, you really haveto, I.
Give it to them in terms ofwhat's in it for them as a

(39:22):
legislator and what's in it fortheir constituents.
Um, obviously this is my firstevent, so my takeaways are, are
gonna be more foundational.
What you have, obviously you'vebeen involved with this, you've
done this for a long time.
Did you have any uniquetakeaways this time around?

Dan Reid (39:37):
Well this, this year in particular there, you know,
there has to be a, a costjustification for what you're
asking for.
Yeah.
This is not the year that youwould go in and say, we're
asking for this because 10 yearsfrom now I.
Everything's gonna be a lotbetter.
They're not looking that far,that that's not the, this is the
year where it's, you know, um,this is what we are asking for

(40:01):
and it's either not gonna costmoney or it's going to be, uh,
uh, positive, um, you know,revenue positive.
And so that, that changes alittle bit.
But every year we have, youknow, we have some carryovers
from prior years.
Kind of goes back a little bit,what you said before, you, you
keep bringing those to the tablebecause one of the years it's
gonna be the right year forthat.

(40:22):
You know, this year we had fourtopics that we're really focused
on and, and, you know, they werea little bit different
presentation than there werethe, the year before.
Part of it is'cause we knew whatpeople wanted want now is
different from, from before.
You know, right now, um, in thepast we've.
As an industry we've beenwanting to push, as we've talked

(40:43):
about before, technology.
We've been wanting to have thattechnology.
The problem is when 99% of thepeople have technology and that
1% doesn't have to, and theydon't, you can't enforce
anything that requirestechnology, right, because that
one, you're gonna miss that 1%.
Um, so you know this, this wasthe year where we said, look.
We as an industry and as anassociation, we want to help cut

(41:08):
fraud, waste, and abuse.
Yep.
And here's how we can do it.
And, and, and here's howtechnology can play a role.
So that was our, our, uh, talkthis year.
We had the micro transit issue,um, which, you know, I think
resonated very well because why?
We can do it cheaper than, thancities can generally do it.
We can do it cheaper and if weuse local people who are already

(41:31):
driving around the streets, theycan probably do it cheaper than
outside companies can do it.
So, you know, so those wereissues we've had in the past,
any MT and micro transit, butthe focus on how we presented it
this year was a little differentand, and, and very effective I
think.
I think we had some very, verygood feedback on those two
issues.
Independent contractor, youknow, in the past it was, we

(41:54):
were very focused on here's whywe need you to not make the
things you want, changes youwant to make.
Here's why we need to preserveindependent contractors this
year.
The, the conversation is more,here's why we want you to do
what you want to do.
On the independent contractorside, we, we encourage you to do
what you're, uh, what you wouldlike to have happen because, you

(42:14):
know, again, it's a differentyear for the independent
contractor.
It's a very important issue toour association, but we're less
concerned that we're, it's lessat jeopardy.
That, and then it might've beenunder prior administrations, but
again, when they make thechanges, we want to make sure
they're making changes that are,you know, beneficial for, for
all independent contractors.
And then of course we had ourfourth issue, which is, uh, the,

(42:36):
the GSA, uh, uh, governmentvehicles that, you know, the
government has 300,000 vehicles,they in their fleet and they get
rid of a percentage every year.
And, and when the government.
Vehicle is used up its life,right?
It's a hundred thousand milesreached the end of the line,
three or four years old.
It's at the end of its, youknow, people in our industry
that's, that's, that's justwarming it up.

(42:57):
Yeah.
That's just warming it up.
It's just road testing, youknow?
And, and so, uh, the opportunityto be able to purchase those
vehicles, what's beautiful aboutthat, we're not asking for a
discount.
We're not, we're, we're, we'reasking to be able to buy'em at
the same cost somebody elsewould, but we're small business
owners.
We're from your constituency.
We need those vehicles.

(43:18):
Covid put a big herd on vehicleaccessibility in all industries.
It's starting to come back.
But now, you know, it's, it'svehicle availability is getting
tough again.
So if we could access thosevehicles from the government
that they're getting rid of andbuy'em at the price they would
be selling'em for, it doesn'tcost anybody anything.
So we had four issues this yearthat I think really resonated

(43:40):
well.
Um, and, and, uh, we got somevery good feedback on it.
On, on.
Um, and you know, we, we justhad our session, uh, you were
here.
Yeah.
We had the feedback and therecap and I think everyone was
very happy with it.

No, and I think, I think something that's really
important to bring up here, andit kind of came up in the recap,
and this is evolving, right.
You know, politics is notstatic.
Correct.
So I can tell you, you know,obviously when I was a day on
the hill yesterday with the NLA,they had a different set of
objectives.
But you know, they're looking atthings like bonus depreciation,
they're looking at taxes,they're looking at tariffs.

(44:14):
Mm-hmm.
They're looking on whether ornot, you know, one of the things
that that we saw come up when Iwas on the hill yesterday with
National Z Association, whathappens with these drivers that
are not W2 employees?
Are they still gonna be includedand not having to pay taxes on
tips?
I can tell you in a lot of theconversations I had on behalf of
the NLA.
That's not something they'dthought about.

(44:36):
It's, well, we were reallythinking more of the
traditionally tipped.
Okay, well if you think aboutit, your chauffeur, your
doorman, your, these are allpeople in a chain that are
traditionally tipped.
Right.
They're, they may or may not beW2 in the dr.
Exactly, exactly.
You know, a lot of thesedifferent topics, as we kind of
brought'em up, it's kind ofevolved.

(44:56):
And one of the things that cameup in that recap, and we heard
the same thing when we recappedfor the National Museum
Association, was that this yearthere was a lot of push on the
democratic side of, we hear you,but we're not driving right now.
Right.
We're not behind the wheel.
That's, you know, that's more onthe Republican side.
And so I think knowing that thisis evolving, man, if you

(45:21):
would've looked at this when theDemocrats.
We're able to make decisions andchanges and be able to do that,
it's totally different.
And so having that constantinvolvement, building those
relationships, doing that.
I mean, the other thing thatreally jumps out at me is that a
lot of these legislators are notthere for one or two years.

(45:43):
These are long-term roles.
Mm-hmm.
They tend to be there for longamounts of time.
So for example, when I wentyesterday to go see the video,
it was interesting because theyhad actually, and, and I think
this came up earlier, they, theyalmost built a, a one-on-one
relationship with these staffersbecause they're coming back year
after year.
When we had a recap, bill had anawesome light bulb moment,

(46:06):
right?
Mm-hmm.
You literally see it justblinking over his head as he
brought it up and he said, Ihave these connections back
home.
I have connections into theseoffices.
These are all people that weknow have been in there.
We've somehow touched them.
If I have the foresight when Iknow I'm coming to an event like
this to reach out.
To let them know I'm coming totry and add some weight to try

(46:26):
and add some value to thatmeeting.
Right?
Something as simple as, youknow, Hey, we're gonna let them
know we reached out to theoffice and the office knows this
is a high priority meeting.
Look, that's going to help tipthat scale a little bit more.
And the other thing, for anyonethat hasn't been to these
events, you know, I'd, I'd loveto ask you how many, how many
other groups did you see doingwhat we were doing?

Dan Reid (46:47):
Oh, geez.
It, it, it, it was amazing.
I, I kept trying to, you know, Iwas kind of fun'cause I was
trying to figure out what each,what are the, each of the
different groups wasrepresenting.
So diverse.
Yeah.
Very diverse, uh, sets of peopleToday we did, we were sitting in
the, um.
The lobby.
And, and I was, I was waiting onthe elevator and I heard that

(47:08):
somebody asked the, the womannext to him, now, how do you
pronounce that word?
And she said, lanap.
And I made her looked around andsaid, you must be from
Louisiana.
'cause I, no one uses LANAPanywhere else.
And she was, and so we, we had alittle connection, but I believe
she was here with, um, the thepool association and, and the
hot tub swimming pool.
Yeah.
And, and, and you know, I wasthinking, I, I'm sure they have

(47:29):
issues.
I don't know what they, youknow, but it, it just makes you
realize every industry hassomething that they, you know,
that that's important to them.
And, and, and they have to behere.
They all come here because it'simportant to have that
connection.
Um, and, and the other thing Ireally realized on, you know,
and, and it hits home every yearwhen I come to this, you, you
always think, well, a lot ofpeople think my dad was a

(47:50):
lobbyist.
So I grew up in the, in thepolitical, in, uh, issue.
But people always think well.
They know everything, right?
They, the, the people, they're,they're the staffers.
That's their transportationlegislative liaison.
They know all about this stuff,that they're experts in it.
Well, they might not, you know,you might be explaining to any
mt to'em, you might beexplaining micro transit to'em.

(48:10):
You might be explaining, as yousaid, the implications of
independent contractors.
Not all independent, you know,not all tipped employees or, or
W2 employees would, you know,and I see it as, as president
association, I, we write up apolicy and we think that's a
fantastic policy.
And then someone says, well, didyou think about this?
No.
No, I didn't.

(48:30):
So we're gonna, we'll make alittle amendment to our policy,
you know, and it, you, you comeinto these meetings and you
realize that.
They, you know, pe they're learnthe, the staffers and, and, and
the, the legislatures are,they're learning from you too.
Right?
They're learning from you too.
And that's important because nowthey better understand your
industry.
Um, and, and it's so important.
It's, it's very important.

(48:51):
You know, and this is not, youknow, this is the flying to dc
but it's important thateverybody does this back home
too.
It's critically important thatyou know, your state
representatives and, and yourstate capitals, and your local
mayors and your local NPOs.
But'cause they have tounderstand your business in
order for them to be able toprotect your business, when
something comes up, you're notalways gonna a hundred percent,

(49:12):
you're not always gonna know theissue.
And sometimes things happen veryfast, believe it or not.
Sometimes things happen fast inpolitics, and before you know
about it, it's a done deal.
And they, you know, everyonetells you that The words you
always hate to hear is, oh, ifI'd known that, we would've done
it differently.
Right?
But now it's done well.
Okay.
You know that, that's a bad,that's a hard pill to swallow.

Well, and I don't, I don't wanna be dark, but
there's this, there's this thingfor a need to call 9 1 1, right?
There's an accident happens,something horrible happens.
There's this phenomenon thathappens where nobody calls 9 1 1
and say, oh, that's horrific.
Somebody must have alreadycalled, there's no way.
Nobody's called this in yet.
Yeah.
And you have accidents.
You have things that don't getcalled in in a timely manner

(49:54):
'cause everybody's like, oh,there's people involved in it.
There's, this is one of thosethings where that happens.
And I think it's worth notingthat people here are
representing their interest.
It's not always business.
We were named someone in JerryMoran's office.
They were there because inveteran housing there's a
horrible mold problem, right?
You have, you know, husbandswives out there defending the

(50:16):
country, risking their life andthey've got mold problems back
home in military housing andtheir kids are getting sick.
But if you are not representing,you gotta think they have
important issues they'rebringing.
These staffers are constantlyhearing and putting attention on
it.
That's extraordinarilyimportant.
I 120%, my heart went out to'em,I support them.
But you gotta think if they'rebringing all of these different

(50:40):
issues, if they're bringing allthese things to staffers, if no
one shows up.
For your cause.
For your problem, right?
Or your issue or you wait toolong.
Yes.
Right?
Yes.
One of the things that theNational Association was talking
about this year is, hey, we'dlike an insurance task force.
We'd like to figure out ifthere's some way that we can get

(51:01):
either something that would pushdown to the states or something
high level for insurance.
Now we are in an insurancecrisis.
Now you gotta think about thatfor a moment.
If you are only coming with askswhen things are at a crisis
mode, you're in trouble.
Right?
If they're used to you comingin, if you've been coming in, if
you're representing yourindustry, if you're saying,

(51:22):
these are the issues, these arewhat we're looking for.
Now you've been represented.
They're aware of yourassociation.
I can tell you one of themeetings we had, oh, you're with
National M Association?
Great.
Same thing we saw on TT A.
Oh, the TT A.
Tell me a little bit.
Well, we do non-emergency.
Oh, you know, you see thoselight bulbs, but it's
incredible.
A lot of people don't realizeit's not, and, and this.

(51:45):
You have the Capitol building,that's where they meet.
You've got six office buildings.
Yes.
Full.
And these are now little officebuildings, which by the way,
it's small side.
Now whoever numbers thebuilding, right?
I'm talking to you, whoevernumbers these offices in the
Rayburn building, having 2345 onthe third floor makes no sense.

(52:06):
Please fix that.
Um, but in all seriousness,you've got six buildings full of
people that are the ones writinglaws that are doing that, right?
If you look at the size of yourindustry, if you look, what,
what would you say?
Total attendees here?
Um, maybe 40 50.

Dan Reid (52:22):
Yeah.
For us this year it was, it was,uh, well north of 30, between 30
and 40.
Yeah.

So 30 to 40 people, there's no way we could hit
every single legislator, everysingle time.
So it becomes so crucial to havepeople come to these events to
be involved, because what peopledon't realize is a lot of these
guys, if you are not from theirstate, if you're not from their
area, if you're not going withsomeone from that area, you may

(52:47):
not get in there to speak withthem.
Right?
I know for me, with the NationalAssociation, you know, there was
no one representing the state ofMissouri.
You know why?
Because no one came out.
And so being active doing thatis so crucial.
Now, I, I would ask you, youknow, what, what beyond this can
someone do, right?

(53:08):
If someone's watching this, theygo, well, I missed it.
Well, it's over.
You know, obviously there's waysto get involved.
Obviously, there's still ways tocontribute.
What, what can someone do ifthey're watching this?
They say, Hey, I missed.
The day on the hill event, or Imissed, you know, the
legislative fly in.
But in my industry, I wanna getinvolved with the association.
I want to try and figure out howto be there more.
What does that look

Dan Reid (53:27):
Well, communication is, is to start with, right?
Okay.
So, uh, you can reach out to us,you can reach out to, uh, Elena
at, at the TTA.
You can reach out to me, we'll,we can give you the four issues
we talked about, and then youcan write to your local
representative and to your, youknow, your, I mean your us uh,
congressman and your, yoursenators.
You can write to them, you can,you can bring the issues to'em

(53:49):
that way.
Um, and, and it's, you know,obviously having been in their
office is more impactful, butit's very impactful to, to send
this information in and, andthey have it on, on their, uh,
desk, and they now have it ontheir radar screen, and then you
can follow up with them.
That's something, you know, alot people always forget this
was, the fly in the follow up isequally important.

(54:10):
But the other thing you can dois when your association asks
you to write a letter, write theletter.
I mean, it's, it's just not thatdifficult.
You know, it, it generally,you're given, Hey, here's the
issues we'd like you to discuss.
I don't like to send out to ourassociation.
I don't like to send out atemplate'cause I don't want, you
know, a hundred of the sameletters going

And they're smart, right?
Yeah, no.
If they see the exact samewording on a hundred letters,
it's kinda like, you know,online petitions or, right.
I think there's something to besaid about actually taking the
time to put something togetherto actually send it in.
Lot of'em have offices back hometoo.

Dan Reid (54:48):
Right.
And we'll get, so we'll give youthe talking points, you know,
but when we ask you to write in,write in, we, we, we had a.
A call for it, uh, about a monthago.
And I, I sent off the two to my,um, senator and, and right away
I got the response back.
Thank you.
We now have, we have this on ourradar screen.
Uh, a couple, uh, a little morethan a month ago, Paul asked me
to write letters as the, not asmyself, uh, uh, an EMT provider,

(55:12):
but it's president of theassociation to seven different
senators, and he got meetingswith those seven different
senators very quicklythereafter.
So, you know, just fish and missfly in.
It's not over the, the, youknow, the, the, um, everything
wasn't resolved.
I'd like to think we resolvedeverything that we did.
We've fixed it.
Politics have been corrected.
We've told'em they're doing itall wrong.

(55:33):
Don't worry for No, it's howpolitics, yeah, we did fix
everything.
And, and that's certainly nothow politics works.
So, you know, stay active, getinvolved, you know, be, be, be
part of it.
Um, when, you know, we have a,uh, I think it's every other
month we do a, uh, a, um.
Governmental update.
And, and Paul gets on and talksabout where things stand.
If something resonates with you,you know, get involved, get

(55:55):
active.
Um, that's just something, youknow, that, that it's, it's very
easy to do.
Um, doesn't take a lot of time.
You know, I, I pointed that outto, to our members, uh, last
month.
It took me 10 minutes to, totrack, take these two letters.
Draft'em into my own words.
By the way.
Don't use chat GPT'cause it,it's gonna sound the same.

(56:16):
It comes out the same.
Well like tech support, right?
But, but if, you know, just,just put in your own words and
then, and then email it off.
No one's even, you know, you'renot even sending hard letters
anymore.
You don't have to go to themail.
You can just put it in the PDFand you send it off.
And that's how they prefer toget it these days.
So, um, the follow up is, isvery crucial.
And if you missed it, you can,you know, you can start out, you
can start laying the groundworkby getting involved and, and,

(56:39):
and getting in contact,submitting these issues.
Tell, tell your representativesand your, and your senators, if
they want to find out more, theycan reach out to you or they can
reach out to the association.
It's very important that we keepinvolved and keep things in
front of people because.
Things are moving very fast now.
been a very interesting, uh, youknow, term I've had as president

(57:01):
here.
Um, every week it's beendifferent.
Every week it's, there'ssomething new that we're, you
know, we're worried about.
And some come and go before Ieven have time to, to, you know,
to get involved.
But some they don't.
But, um, and the follow-up'simportant.
We, you know, we talked about itin our wrap up.
I've got several assignmentsI've gotta get back.
Um, these are not things that Ican get back in two weeks or

(57:22):
three weeks.
These are things I gotta turnaround this weekend.
Um, so, you know, it's, it'simportant that when someone asks
you for follow-up, you give itto'em.
Yeah.
Because when they ask you formore information, they want it.
It's not, believe me, nobody uphere is asking for information
they don't want.
So if they ask you forinformation, it's critically
important that you follow upwith them and get that
information because it's, it'swhat they need to arm themselves

(57:46):
to have the next discussions.

No.
And I, I think it's worth notingthat, you know, one of the
things that we found is a lot ofthis is partly finding
alignments.
Mm-hmm.
And this was one of my takeawaysfrom these meetings.
You know, you might, you mightgo into to a meeting and they
might say, Hey, that, that hasnothing to do with this.
Or you, you might go in ameeting, they might have a
little bit interest, or youmight have another meeting where

(58:08):
they say, Hey, you know, there'sjust nothing we can do.
But every once in a while, youknow, you find that person.
And, and we, we connected withsomeone in the office of Jerry
Moran.
Um, we just, she said, well, youknow, I remember drafting
something that I thought kind ofmight relate to this and I'm
gonna go look it up.
And so tho those are the momentswhere you can kind of see, they

(58:29):
go, okay, there might be a link,there might be.
And seizing on that is reallyhuge.
Now obviously we're talking thenational level.
Um.
You, I think are a great personto ask, you know, what does this
look like as well at your city,at your state, at your local
level?
You know, is this somethingwhere, hey, the fight's only
here in Washington dc which I, Ithink I know the answer to that.

(58:52):
Um, but you know, what does thatlook like as well in terms of
being involved at home and howdo you kind of keep that through
line and try to figure out whereyou fit into that?

Dan Reid (59:05):
It is very important to be involved at home.
It, um, the, so much of whatreally happens happens at the
state level.
Yeah.
Decisions that can affect yourday to day.
Um, not, not just at the statelevel, you know, in our case, in
Jackson or Baton Rouge.
Yeah.
But, you know, back in yourhometown with your, within your
MPOs, your metropolitan planningorganizations, um, and, and

(59:26):
your, you know, your local city,uh, councils so many of those
decisions.
So for one, go to your MPOmeetings, go to your city
council meetings.
Meet your, the, the one time youdon't want to be introducing
yourself to someone is when youneed their help.
That, when you need the time tomake a friend is the time to
make a friend is before you needthem.
Exactly.
So that when you need them, theyknow who you are.

(59:48):
You're not explaining who youare and what an EMT is or what
you know, an independentcontractor is, or any of those
things.
You, you've already explainedthose issues.
Now they know, you know, theycan, they can help you.
The other thing that, uh, our,our industries have been bad at
in the past and, and I thinkwe're getting better, the
limousine association is muchbetter.

(01:00:08):
Again, going back to the wholeaffiliate thing that the
limousines have that we haven'thad in our industries, but is
working to together at theground level.
Yeah.
Uh, now part of it is that allthe, the contracts you get
always say you can't collude.
Well, yes.
You can't collude, we can't allget together and say, we're
gonna charge this price or we'renot gonna do trips.
That's illegal.

(01:00:29):
But that doesn't mean we can'tget together and say, Hey, here
are things we need.
Right.
You know, and we're not saying,here are things we need or we're
not gonna do trips with you, butyou could get together and have
your ideas and, and you know,again, it goes back to exactly
what I was saying.
I, I've said in the past, if DanReid goes up to Jackson, and
that's Dan Reid going up toJackson, right?

(01:00:50):
Yeah.
And I, I can impact one personand one senator, but if I get
people from 23 differentcounties going up to Jackson,
now you've got a lot of peoplewho are hearing the same thing
and you're hearing the samemessage.
So, um, it's, it's reallyimportant at the state level to
to know your, you know, we usedto think was know your
competitors, know your peers.

(01:01:11):
Right.
Know the people who are doingthe business.
The one thing I've learned in 15years of, of doing this now.
The pie is very, very big.
Yeah.
You know, and, and, uh, I'mgenerally not someone who should
be talking about how big a pie,how big a slice I could have,
but, but, um, you know, it's avery big pie and we can all get
a good slice of it.

(01:01:31):
Yeah.
You know, the, the days ofthinking, man, if I tell you
about something, uh, I'm cut myown business.
Those days are gone.
It's, there's so much that canbe done, but you can't do it on
your own.
Right.
It's so hard to do on your own.
So you need to have, you need tohave people you can rely on.
You need to have people you canreach out to.
You need to have people, if forno other reason to help you when
you need help, but, but to alsohave a common goal.

(01:01:55):
That ability to reach out toyour legislatures locally, reach
out to, you know, it, it, it, itgets kind of exponential, but.
Two of the same people from thesame industry.
Going to a mayor is a bigimpact, right?
Yeah.
Five of the same people going toa city council, big impact.
10 of the same people going to,uh, the state legislature.
Big impact.

(01:02:16):
It doesn't take huge numbers.
It just takes you workingtogether and cooperating.

James Blain (01:02:20):
And I think, I think that kind of echoes back
and I think it's, it's a greatplace to kind of start, you
know, where we wind out.
You can't have a scarcitymindset, right.
You know, if you start lookingat some of the most successful
organizations that, that youjust can't operate from a place
of, it's me, me, me.
It's fear.
No one can know what I do.

(01:02:41):
No one can know my secret.
You know?
Does that mean that you go andyou go to every single
competitor in town and you makephotocopies of your business
plan?
Well, God no.
Yeah.
But there's, uh, there's a hugething to be said about what you
are talking about here.
If you are going into thatperson v.
They're probably not thinkingabout your industry on a

(01:03:01):
day-to-day basis unless theyhave a family member.
Unless they have someone that'susing.
And even then, they mayactually, let's say they've got
someone who, you know, some ofthe family, they're on dialysis,
they use non emergency mail,transportation all the time.
Guess what?
They still don't think aboutyour business that way.
Right?
They don't think about you thatway.
I can promise you in any kind oflegislation, very rarely are you

(01:03:23):
gonna go, you know, nobody'sbrought it up.
It wasn't a topic.
I just don't wanna take amoment.
Let's think about thetransportation guys.
Just doesn't happen.
Yeah.
Right.
No.
And that, that, that didn'treally happen for any industry.
They're, they're looking at whois the voices, who are the
people that are bringing inconcerns?
And so you have to be part ofthat group, and you have to be

(01:03:44):
in a position where you've gotpeers.
Now competition or not?
You may, you may be diehardcompetition, but you both agree
hate each, but you got commoninterests.
Well, a rising tide lift allboats.
Yeah, exactly.
Right.
The last thing you wanna do ishate each other so much that you
let something go by because youcan't be seen trying to work
together.

(01:04:04):
And it's funny, you see this onthe bus industry Safety Council
with a VA, who I mentionedbefore.
You know, they start all theirmeetings with, Hey, you know,
you we're not talking, you can'ttalk about price.
Right?
Right.
You can't.
There are certain things that,like you said, you cannot do.
But what you can do is worktogether to better the industry.
Exactly.
Which is gonna provide betterservice for the end user.

(01:04:25):
And again, lifting that tide.

Dan Reid (01:04:27):
No, it it, it's so true.
And you know, when I firstheard, you know, got in touch
with n la when I first, I sortof saw some of the things.
I thought, how, how do you keepprotect your business and with
the affiliates and everythingyou do.
Yeah.
And someone was very, you know,they said, well, Dan, you don't
give somebody all your businessright off the bat.
Right.
You, you, you find out who youcan trust and who you can't.

(01:04:47):
And someone who's not trusted,you don't trust them again.
You know?
Yeah.
If somebody burns you, it, it'sthe same thing in our industry,
you know?
Uh, if, if, if there's 20providers in your area, I'm not
saying 19 of'em, all 19 of'emare gonna be your best friends.
Right.
Right.
There might be three or fourthat you absolutely wouldn't
tell them the time of day.
You know, with, without, youknow, you, but, but there's,

(01:05:08):
that means there are 16, if Ijust did my math right, there
are 16 that could be alignedwith you Yep.
On a lot of issues.
And, and, and we just have toget past that mindset of
everyone's a competitor.
Not everyone's, everyone's apeer.
Everyone's, you're all competingfor the same thing.
But, you know, I've always kindof had this mindset that, well,
if, if we all have a levelplaying field then and I can't

(01:05:31):
win the business, well then I'mjust not as good as the person
who's winning the business.
Yeah.
So, you know, at, at some point,your inability, your inability
to, to share with somebody and,and open up and, and have that,
uh, relationship with somebodyis really an insecurity on your
part that you're not as good asthey are.
So, you know, I, I say, well,look, if you're not willing to

(01:05:53):
share and you're not willing tobe part of that, then that's
fine, because you just don'tthink you're that good.
Well, try it, try sharing it andsee what happens.

And I think, you know, for me, you know, I've got
a son playing hockey.
Now you got a daughter figureskates.
I'm playing hockey as an adult.
I kind of think of it the sameway.
You know, we go out there andyou practice and you're doing
things and you might be outthere with your buddy practicing
drills, and then guess what?
Later on in scrimmage, you gottaplay against him.
Mm-hmm.
Now am I gonna try and beat him?
God, yes.
Someone put that goal in.
Now at the same token.

(01:06:22):
You might be playing against himthat hey, he might be sitting
next to you the next day.
Yeah.
So the last thing you want to dois be unfair, cheat, do anything
Exactly you're supposed to forthe sake of winning.
And I think we see that a lot inbusiness.
You, you have to, and they, theydid a study and what they found
is you have to operate fromposition of trust.
Does that mean sometimes you'regonna get taken advantage of?

(01:06:43):
Sometimes you get cheated.
Absolutely.
But the problem becomes, if youdon't operate from a position of
trust and you operate completelyclosed off, you are never going
to be able to find those peopleyou can trust.
Right.
You're never gonna be able tobuild alliances.
You're not gonna be able to havea mentor.
How are you going to mentorpeople later on in your career?

(01:07:04):
Mm-hmm.
If you're terrified of givingaway your secrets, saying again,
we go back to those littleislands.
So I think it really comes downto understanding that, hey, you
know, we might be playingagainst each other today.
We might be on the same bench ona different topic tomorrow.
But I have to figure out who arethe peers that can be friendly.
Competition, right?
Respected competition, knowingthat we have this giant pie that

(01:07:27):
we're working from, that is notgoing to go away.
It's not gonna get smaller.
Right?
It's not one of, it's one ofthose things where we've got
enough for everyone and I thinkthat for me is huge.
Now, let me ask you, as we, wekind of, you know, end the
podcast episode here, what's theone takeaway?
What's the one thing that wewanna leave everyone with?
You know, if they weren't here,if they've never been to this

(01:07:49):
kind of event, if they'relistening to this episode,
they're saying, you know, I haveno idea what that would've been
like for them or what they'redealing with.
I think that's maybe even toohigh level.
What do you leave that personwith?

Dan Reid (01:08:01):
You know, try it.
Just try, try.
Just get involved please.
So much of we, one of the bigthings push is we're doing at
Transportation Alliance thisyear.
We're making a lot of our, uh,knowledge transfer available to
the public, not not members.
The members get better discountssometimes, and members get
access to things that everyonedoesn't get.

(01:08:23):
We want people to see, you know,we, we, we want people to see
the value of the tt a Yeah.
So just try get on, get on oneof the calls.
Join one of the, we have a greatwebinar series going on.
Ken, Ken Lu did, he did the, hedid the start of it.
Tell us, Ken, and, and, um, it'sa six part webinar series on, on
business essentials, how tomanage your business, not your
businessman.
You join one of those webinars,just reach out and see if it's

(01:08:46):
for you.
See if you get anything back.
If, if you participate in two orthree events and you absolutely
get nothing back, you know, youeither need to do some very
serious self reflection and findout, you know, or you, somebody
that nobody likes or, or you'renot trying.
Right.
You know, because it, it being,running a business on your own

(01:09:06):
is, has got to be the loneliestthing in the world.
If I didn't have people I couldcall regularly, I'm, I'm, I'm
about to head, you know, as youknow, down to Florida with a
group of people that I've beentalking to, I.
You know, monthly, sometimesweekly.
It's a group of about nine of usthat we just get together.
We don't have a topic, we don'thave an agenda every, every
month when we get on the phoneevery week, but we never fail to

(01:09:28):
fill the couple hours becausesomebody will say, Hey, I'm
getting my insurance renewal,you know, this is what they're
telling me.
And then you got nine differentpeople that, that networking,
that ability to have someoneelse to, to contact is so
valuable and, and if you do itthrough an association, you're
just going to meet everybody.
It also allows you to talk topeople.
If you are someone who's soafraid of all your colleagues in

(01:09:51):
your area, you can talk topeople outta state.
Yeah.
They have the same problems.
They're not gonna compete withyou.
Yeah.
They're not gonna compete.
Have no desire to bring to yourmarket just to compete.
Exactly.
And they, and they have the sameproblems you do though.
And you can really, you know,one, one of the guys who was
just here saying goodbye beforeyou left, he, he calls me all
the time.
He just got his first wheelchairvan, you know, he called me and
said, what, you know, and, andI'm happy to spend an hour

(01:10:11):
explaining to him the differentwheelchair vans I've had, the
different things I've done.
And now here's what you alsoneed to do.
Here's a training you have tohave.
It's invaluable.
I don't see how I could havestayed in this business if I
didn't have that.
So that, that, that would be my,my closing thing to everybody.
Just give us a shot.
Give us a try.
If you don't like it, we'll,we'll, we'll find something you
like.

Well, and I, I think that that is something
that comes up over and over and,and I, I can't emphasize enough
that all of the successfulpeople that have been on this
podcast that have builtsuccessful companies.
Always come back to mentorship.
Yes.
Um, now are there people outthere that are self-made?
I did alone.
Sure.
But they are few and farbetween, and I promise you

(01:10:54):
they've had a harder, longerroad to get there.
I think one of the biggestthings that I would say is, you
know, we see a lot of peoplethat come in, well, my problems
are so unique, I'm dealing withthis, uh, two things.
One, I would say they're not,they're not right.
Sorry.
You're not a unique andindividual snowflake.
No, I'm kidding.
Um, there are some problems thatmay be unique to your situation

(01:11:16):
mm-hmm.
Or what you're doing.
But I think the big thing isthere's also a lot of people
that come to associations, theydon't really outlay where
they're at.
They don't really kind of fullyopen up.
They don't really, I mean, it's,it's kinda like if you go into a
meeting and you sit in thecorner, you don't talk to
anyone.
You, you watch the presentation,you go back, you don't implement

(01:11:38):
it, you go, it didn't work.
Look, I mean, it's kind of likediet and exercise.
You have to apply them and dothem.
You can't just say, you know, Ireally thought hard about this
and now I've got that BeachbodyI always want.

Dan Reid (01:11:50):
I mean, if you go to the therapist and you only tell
the therapist what they thinkthey want to hear.
Yeah.
That makes you sound like a goodperson.
You're not gonna fix anything.
Yeah, exactly.
Right.
And, and, and it's the samething.
You know, it, it, you, you gottabe willing to say, Hey, I don't
know.
I don't know.
But can you tell me how thoseare such valuable words?
I don't know.
Can you tell me how it, it, it,your life gets so much easier

(01:12:14):
once you can say those words.

Well, and I think one of the big pieces there as
well is be forthcoming.
Yes.
Right.
Be forth if and, and sometimes,you know, it's.
Actually asking for help.
Yeah.
Hey, I would really love, I'mstruggling with this issue.
I don't have a mentor.
I don't need anyone.
Is there someone that can help?
Yeah.
I know.
You are an incredible resource.

(01:12:37):
People can reach out directly toyou.
I know.
You know, we're lucky enough theTransportation Alliance to have
Elena, to have Rebecca.
Mm-hmm.
There's an absolutely incredibleteam.
Now, if they're looking to learnmore about Transportation
Alliance, where should they go?
What should they do?
What, what should they do rightnow?
If that's the right place forthem to go?

Dan Reid (01:12:53):
The transportation alliance.org.
That easy.
You go out there, you can join,drop the notes.
If you have five or lessvehicles, it's$50 for the year.
If you can't get$50 worth ofvalue within your first month,
do a something wrong.
You're doing something wrong.
So it's transportationalliance.org, or you can always
get ahold of me.
Uh, dan@grovetransit.com.

All right.
Dan, I can't thank you enoughfor coming to the podcast.
Um, I.
Been a pleasure, James.
No, it's, it's absolutelyincredible.
I think this is a great event.
I love being a part of thisassociation.
It was absolutely perfect for usgetting to be a part of the
National Limousine Associationsevent, having Brett Baren Holtz
talking about what they're doingthere, kind of what we saw here.
Mm-hmm.
I can't thank you guys enoughfor what you do, and we'll

(01:13:31):
definitely have to have you backon

Dan Reid (01:13:33):
Great.
Thanks a lot, man.
Take care.
Thank you for listening to theground transportation podcast.
If you enjoyed this episode,please remember to subscribe to
the show on apple, Spotify,YouTube, or wherever you get
your podcasts.
For more information about PAXtraining and to contact James,
go to PAX training.com.
And for more information aboutdriving transactions and to

(01:13:55):
contact Ken, Go to drivingtransactions.com.
We'll see you next time on theground transportation podcast.

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