Turning a Taxi Business into a Mini Bus Empire, with Jess Sandhu

Episode Transcript
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Ken Lucci (00:26):
Well good afternoon and welcome to another exciting
episode of the GroundTransportation Podcast.
My name is Ken Lucci withDriving Transactions with my co
host James Blaine from PAXTraining.

James Blain (00:39):
Hey everybody.

Ken Lucci (00:40):
And I am honored to introduce our special guest Jess
Sandhu

Jess Sandhu (00:44):
Hi everyone.

Ken Lucci (00:45):
Jess is one of the co owners of ANA Transportation up
in Seattle, Washington, and heis one of our clients from a
financial perspective.
And I asked him to come onbecause he is probably one of
the most profitable, companiesof his size.
Jess, how much a year, uh,annual revenue, roughly?

Uh, roughly we're about, I think this year we're
going to be hitting close to sixmillion.

Ken Lucci (01:09):
Excellent.
Excellent.
So you've grown it from, fromscratch.

Yep, we have.

Ken Lucci (01:15):
Okay, so give us an idea, give us a background of
ANA, give us a background ofyours as well.
And we also want to give a shoutout to the brains of the
operation who couldn't be withus today.
His name is Harry Sandu.
Harry's the father and Harryabsolutely is the brains of the
operation, but you know, Jess isthe speaker today.
So just tell us a little bit,tell us about how you got into

(01:38):
it.
Tell us about ANA over thecourse of history and then ANA
today, please.

Got it.
Hey, so, um, my family came froma transportation background in
Southeast Asia and we had anopportunity to migrate to the U.
S.
for my further studies and allthat.
So my dad took it and he, we, hesold everything and we moved to
the U.
S.
And we started I think Believeit was 1993.

(02:05):
We started as a taxi cab company

Ken Lucci (02:07):
Really?

Yeah, we were a taxi cab company.
We had a couple of cabs.
I was in college and then thenmy dad just bought a limo and I
think what happened was he had aheart attack or Something so he
had to go to the hospital.
I was running basically thetransportation company.
I didn't know anything about itCell phones were like like a
dollar a pound A minute backthen and so I ran it.

(02:31):
I was like, wow, this is fun.
So then slowly he bought one.
He bought another and we haddrivers and then came 98 when I
graduated from college and thisis what I wanted to be doing.

Ken Lucci (02:44):
What was your degree in?

Business.

Ken Lucci (02:47):
Nice.

Business management.

Ken Lucci (02:49):
what's your home country?
Where did you guys migrate from?

So we are we are from Indian origin, but we grew
up in Singapore and Malaysia.

So how big was that company over there before you
get, you know, I mean, trying tokind of get that gauge of where
you

we were about, uh, I think we had about 60 buses,

Okay.

60 buses, 50 or 60 buses,

Why go into taxi then?
Why not stick with kind of thebuses and that what, what made
your

Well, um,

side?

that's what everybody was doing.
All the Indians were doing cabsback then.
I mean, he went to New York, hewent to visit some friends, he
went to here, the guy had a cabcompany.
Back then when I used to go tothe Sikh temple, everybody had a
cab.
Yeah.
Everybody, everybody had a cab.
All the Sikhs were cab drivers.
It

Ken Lucci (03:33):
What brought you to Seattle?

we had a couple of relatives living here.
And, basically we just decidedSeattle, it was growing.
And we did move to Californiafor six months, but realized
that Seattle is where everybodywas happening.
And we moved back to Seattleright after that.
And we've stayed here ever sincethen.
And we've grown our roots here.

Ken Lucci (03:53):
so when, how did you, when did you transition from
taxi to limo

It was just in the, uh, transportation field.
I mean, you have taxis andlimos.
It was back then if you wantedto go to the airport, it was an
Uber.
It wasn't a limo.
It was a taxi.
You take a taxi.
And then my dad saw that therewere always six people, seven
people.
Back then there were no SUVs.
No one was running SUVs.
So everybody bought limos.
So we had the six passengerlimo, which was a 56 inch

(04:19):
stretch.
Funny story was, when I, when Iturned 21, we had a party.
I drove that limo to therestaurant, so I, so, and I
drove it back.
So it was either, to my own 21stbirthday.
So, it was like, either I drovea limo or I get drunk.
So I drove a limo on my 21stbirthday.
I drove to my own party and Idrove it back from my own party

(04:42):
with the family and everything.
Riding and I was like, becauseyou know, I was a born driver.
and I was like, wow, that'samazing.
And then slowly we went into,back then town cars was just
coming on, you know, back in1995, 96.
We were just coming back on andthen slowly we went to town
cars.
And then that's how the, the,uh, limousine site happened.

(05:04):
And it was all airport.

Ken Lucci (05:05):
taxis?

I believe it was right after I got off of
college, I think it was 2000 Itwas 1998, sorry.
I think 99 was the year when mydad went to the first limo show
by himself.
And he became an NLA member in99.

Ken Lucci (05:19):
No kidding.

Yeah.
I was like, okay, fine.
Let's I I didn't know anythingand I didn't so I and then You
know back then it was limos.
Everybody had the biggest limos.
It was all about limos limoslimos

Ken Lucci (05:33):
And when did you transition from, when did you,
what made you make thetransition from the stretch
limousine or, you know,limousine provider to more of
the bus side?
When did you make thattransition?

Well, I believe it was uh 2000 So let me give you a
little bit of background beforethat.
So before 9 11, since Microsoftwas here, all I did was limos.
I, we used to have limos goingon five days a week, six days a
week back then, because allthese new kids were coming to
Microsoft and they had crazymoney.
They didn't know what to do withthe money.

(06:06):
They used to party.
We used to go five o'clock toMicrosoft and they will just
take us out till midnight andthere was crazy money.
So that, then came 9 11, then wehad, you know, there was a lot
of things then.
Then we decided to buy one ofthe longest limo, which was, I
believe, a 2007 Escalade, whichwas a 24 passenger.
So in order to, so in order tohave that, um, we knew that we

(06:29):
had to get CDLs and we had toget a bus license.
So we bought that, I think itwas in, so we got that built,
everything came in, in April.
And then my dad say, well, nowyou have a bus license, why, and
we are getting the bus, uh,permit, why don't we actually
buy a bus.
Yeah, so we bought a bus, webought a, I think our first bus
was 6, 000.
And we spent about 3000 paintingand everything.

(06:51):
And basically we, within I thinkthree weeks, we went into a
brand new bus.
We were like, wow,

Just headfirst, right?
Well, I mean, but, but you werethere before, right?
So that kind of, kind of like Iasked earlier.
Now, at that point, you're backto where you were before you
guys came over and started herein the U S.

Correct.
Yeah, exactly.
So it was just a small 24passenger bus with real luggage.
It was nothing fancy.
And, uh, you know, it's, it, andit just, you know, we bought
one, we bought two, we boughtthree, and we just keep
multiplying.
And we were, we, my dad waslike, wait a minute, you can do
one bus trip and make fiveairport trips.

(07:30):
And he's like, why aren't wedoing more of this?

Ken Lucci (07:32):
Yeah.

And then slowly, you know, it just built from
there and we were sort ofbuilding the the brand name and
everything.

Ken Lucci (07:38):
So were stretchy.
Had a lot of stretches back inthe

Mm hmm.
We did.

Ken Lucci (07:43):
but you, you successfully pivoted.
First you had sprinter limos andthen executive sprinters, but
you've pivoted pretty much,pretty much, A large part of
your business now is mini busand, and bus.
And bus.
And not motor coaches, butschool buses, activity buses.

Correct.
Then we then we realized thatthe twenty four and the thirty
two passengers was our bread andbutter.
Those were the workhorses, thetwenty four, the twenty eight,
the thirty two, and then we werealready serving the school and
then guess what?
Then came COVID.
We came out of COVID.
We already had relationships.
We, the school, the privateschools came out with

(08:23):
guidelines.
They were like, okay, the busesneed to have windows that open
up.
Thank God we have, we had someStarCraft buses that, that, that
the, the, they call it the, uh,the, uh, T sliders opened up.
So Fresh Air could, could, uh,could, uh, um, get in.
In fact, I had to retrofit abus, uh, with six brand new
windows so I can, I can open upthe windows.

(08:45):
And, uh, Because we had thatrelationship with the school,
they came up to me and say, how,the first, the first offer was,
how could you come to me and,and, uh, how could you get me
drivers?
That was my first, like, like,basically I provided drivers,
they had their buses.
So I went down and saw theirbuses.

(09:06):
I was like, my god, this iswhen, uh, James was, was
probably in, uh, elementaryschool.
You know, they're still runningold buses and all that, and I
was like, wow.
So then I said, no, I'm sorry.
I said, I really can't do this.
I said, uh, it's just too muchto maintain somebody else's
fleet.
And then they came back to me,okay, how would you like to do

(09:26):
to, uh, one route?
I said, great.
I said, well, the very next dayI went down and I bought two
buses.
And I told the school I boughttwo.
Well, the school was like, whydid you buy two?
We just need one bus.
I said, well, I need a backupbus.

Ken Lucci (09:40):
Sure.

And, uh, so two buses realistically cost me 65,
000, which is the price of onesuburban.

Ken Lucci (09:48):
Yep.

when was this, this is coming

This was in, yeah, 2021, 2021.
This was coming out of COVID andwe were like, okay, we are
hungry.
We were, you know, all of ushave, you know, all, all, most
of the savings were gone.
We're trying to see how, whatthe, uh, the, uh, next step was
for the company.
I mean, I was thinking I was.
Yeah, exactly, because I wasthinking I was going, I was

(10:11):
going to go out and buymotorcoaches.
Seriously, but then, uh, Ithought I could get them cheap,
but that did not happen.
So, then came the school busdivision, because they were,
they were lack of school busdrivers.
A lot of the older, uh, schoolbus drivers were afraid to come
back to driving school busesBecause you know, so there was a

(10:32):
lot of that and this and thatand then So the school was
smart.
I mean one one of the school wasreally smart.
They were like, okay Let me giveyou a small pie of it And they
were like wow You guys deliver Iused to get calls at four
o'clock from the school.
Hey, one of my one of my busdriver is Is not coming today.
And can you can you Can youcover this route and i'll be

(10:52):
like sure so I used to get up at4 30 and And go pick up a bus
from from my yard and just go doit and they were like wow, that
is amazing

but you're going above and beyond, right?
You're going out of your way anddoing it yourself to

I was

And they know they can count on you, which is why
that starts to

Yeah, exactly they would they'd be like four
o'clock in the morning he wouldcall me and said hey I know you
already have two routes, but canyou go and cover this route for
for one day or two days?
So I did that I actually, Iactually did that on a 44
passenger executive bus.
And, you

Ken Lucci (11:24):
the kids in a 44 passenger executive bus,

bus, yeah, I, I did all that.
I mean,

Ken Lucci (11:30):
know, but you, you, you really, you guys pivoted
when this came up.
You could have basically said,no, I don't, I don't do schools,
I don't do private schools.
I don't do

No,

Ken Lucci (11:42):
et cetera.
But you, you took theopportunity to pivot and you,
you first, I think proactively,you made the decision to pivot
away from stretch limousines.

we did that, right?

Ken Lucci (11:55):
And talk about how have you been able to, cause you
have very little turnover.
I'm going to brag on you alittle bit.
You have practically no debt.
unbelievable profitability forthe size for your size company.
and don't say it because becauseHarry is is frugal.

Yes.

Ken Lucci (12:14):
it's but it's because you keep your overhead low,

I do, I do, I

Ken Lucci (12:18):
and, you invest in equipment and you invest in your
people.
You have practically no turnoverof drivers.
How did how did that happen?
And how do you how does thatwork?

Well, A long time ago, I think it was in 2004, I
went for a site visit.
I think, I can't remember, Idon't want to say the name of
the company, but it was acompany in the New York area.
And I walked in, and the firstthing I saw was, no drivers
beyond this point.
there's a

Ken Lucci (12:44):
chauffeured company

This was a chauffeured company, so I went
to see them, and I, and then, sothere was, basically, you walked
in the office.
And there was a like a smallarea and it was his no
chauffeurs, no drivers beyondthis point.
And on the right of the officewas the dispatcher yelling at
the driver.
He was yelling at the driver andI was like, Hmm.
And then that company had a highturnover rate and the owner

(13:08):
couldn't see why.

But you figured it out when you walked in the

I did.
I did.
And I was like, wait a minute.
This is not right.
This is, you know, you'retreating them like they are like
second class citizens, correct?
You're not allowed, like, mine,they're, they're coming up to me
and, you know, they're, they'rediscussing, they're telling me,
hey, you know, Uh, my wife'spregnant, I say congratulations,
you know, stuff like that,little things like that, you
know, like, hey, uh, you know,if there's any issues, they can

(13:34):
come to me.
I mean, it's not like, you know,even at night, you know, if
there's a little issue, there's,if they need help, you know,
anything.
I mean, I have that open doorpolicy.
Yeah, what is this?
I haven't, yeah.

Ken Lucci (13:53):
The other piece of that is I know you spend a lot
of time and money maintainingyour fleet.
There's probably, when I watch,see on Facebook, if somebody's
got a question on a part, themost obscure part in the world.

matter what it is.

Ken Lucci (14:07):
Doesn't matter what it is, he knows it off the top
of his head.

And he's usually the first one to respond.
That's the thing that I alwayslove is that no, nobody commands
Facebook like Jess, when itcomes to parts or windows,
they're really just posting it,so Jess will go on there and

Yeah, exactly.
I'm, you know, like, it's likeweird things, like, oh my god,
that's, that's a 36x36 window.
It's on eBay.
It's like 200 bucks on eBay.
Just go buy it, you know, but,but

Ken Lucci (14:32):
because you've gone through a lot of it in the

I have, I have, I,

Ken Lucci (14:35):
you have an incredible amount of knowledge
on the operations and mechanicalside.

I do, and that's because when, uh, one of my
first mechanic that my dad used,um, for our taxi business, uh,
when I used to bring a taxi or alimo to him, he'll be like,
okay, jack that up.
And, uh, open up the, uh, the,uh, tires.
He used to make me do things.

Ken Lucci (14:57):
And you're right, to your point, know, you're
respected because you know everypiece of the business and you've
done every piece of thebusiness.
But you know, the funniest,funny thing is, he does not, for
six million, how many people doyou have doing reservations and
dispatching?

Um, ri

Ken Lucci (15:14):
million dollar company.

Right now, I believe I have two people
working.

Ken Lucci (15:17):
Okay.
Talk to, talk to us about, noone will believe it, but it's
true.
Talk about the technology sideof the business because you've
been, you, you were a pioneer onpivoting away from stretch
limousines and

Mm hmm.

Ken Lucci (15:30):
institutional clients, corporate clients,
group and meetings, sprinters,minivans, etc.
Talk to us about the technologyaspects and, and how
technologies change yourbusiness.

Of course, and you know, it's so funny because
here's what it is.
Um, and I tell this, and I havethe same speech, for the last
five, six years.
If, if, uh, if our good friend,Douglas Schwartz wants to buy,
um, his underwear or boxers,which he wears a lot

Ken Lucci (16:01):
love the Douglas.

Yeah.
What a specific example So, so,so, so, so, so, uh, Yep, so
Dougie is not going to callAmazon at 206 266 1000.
He's going to go to Amazon.comfind out what he wants, and he
orders them.
Op, if he doesn't want it, he'llput it in the cart, he'll come
back, it's still there, or hewill see, he'll get reminders.
So, why and, why can't we do thesame thing on the, uh, the, uh,

(16:27):
the, uh, um, the limousine sideWell, we have.
There was a company, which Jamesremembers Book.limo He was the
first one that

Ryan Hildebirth.

Ryan Yeah, exactly.
He was the first one that cameup in 2005, and he had this
wonderful product which we wereall using, and it was an, a very
true online booking tool.
Great at that time, but it stillwasn't enough, because what we
need, what, what book.
limo was missing was the salesaspect of it, the, uh, the, uh,

(17:02):
the sales funnel.
Then came add ons.

Ken Lucci (17:05):
management.

Yep, exactly.
So then came add ons.
Add ons in 2000 and, uh, I thinkit was 2008.
Uh, 2018 was when I met Mike,uh, up in, Mike, Mike, exactly,
in, uh, Atlantic City and Andy.
And they were saying, you know,yep, exactly.
So Andy Norman came up and said,you know, Jess, we have a

(17:29):
product that we are launching.
And we want you to be the one,one of the first ones.
So I said, great.
I love it.
I said, and they asked wasamazing too.
It was an amazing too.
When, when, uh, when book dotlimo went down back in, I think
it was 2018 or something,

Yeah.
Yeah.
It would have been around

yeah, I think it went down for about two, three
weeks.
I noticed our full volume justwent up.

Ken Lucci (17:57):
Yeah.

You know?

Ken Lucci (17:59):
Yeah.

And what I was trying to do was I was trying to
stop those, those, uh, crazycalls like, how much is a limo?
How much is a limo?
How

Ken Lucci (18:06):
o'clock, ten o'clock at

At night, yeah, how much is a limo?
How

Ken Lucci (18:09):
much is it to the airport?
Eleven

Yeah, how much is at the airport?

Ken Lucci (18:12):
at night for two weeks from now.
How much is it to go to theairport?
Yeah.

Exactly.
And we don't need those kind ofcalls.
Everything's online.
Everything's online with thesales funnel that, uh, Mike, uh,
with the add on teams that have,that have created this and I was
very fortunate because duringCOVID is when I set up my, uh,
my whole add on things and Mikewas available because there was
nothing going on, but

but you were preparing, you were getting
ready for when it came back.
It had to come back.

Yeah, I had to do all these crazy things to do,
you know, just so, so Mike wasamazing.
He showed me everything, youknow, he had plenty of time back
then.
Now I know he doesn't have time.
He's busy, busy, busy, but backthen he had, he had, he had all
the time in the world.
I used to call him at sixo'clock, uh, Pacific standard
time, which was nine o'clock histime.
And he will actually answer mycall and we got that set up.

(19:03):
We got it running and it was, Iwas like, I was blown away.
I was blown away.
I mean, we have competitors herethat, that basically have, they
spend a lot of money on add ons,but they don't have a closer.
They don't have a closing tool.
And LeetCodeClose is thatanswer.
Two years ago, I think, uh,Santa Cruz was going to launch

(19:25):
something very similar.
I'm not sure if they have yet,

Ken Lucci (19:28):
It's still on the roadmap.

still on the roadmap.
You see, so, no, I don't,

I don't even know that I've heard about it
recently.

So, and,

Ken Lucci (19:35):
be careful, but do

no,

Ken Lucci (19:37):
on my face?
Nobody can

I know.

Ken Lucci (19:38):
They can't see the smirk on a podcast.
So

So people ask me, like, why are you with Limo
Anywhere?
Why are you with, because ofthis, because of this great
tool.
There's nobody else in theindustry that has it.
People don't get it.
Oh, I hate Limo Anywhere.

Ken Lucci (19:51):
No, let's face it.
They built a customized CRM anda sales funnel tool and a quote
management system that, and,and.
To me, you and Josh Roman from,um, Heaven on Wheels, we sold

right.
Mm hmm.

Ken Lucci (20:09):
Um, shout out to Josh, he's now in a great
industry, he's happy as hell.
And we sold his company.
And that's how I met Jess, bythe way.
But Josh, what sold Josh'scompany, was him on a Zoom,
showing me, Oh, Ken, I have 195quotes open.
I've sold 97.
That's a quick that that that isthe equivalent of 128, 000.

(20:32):
You see these quotes.
We're working on these quotestoday.
And and to me, to Jess's point,you know, the reality is
corporate.
corporate.
procurement officers 84 percentof the time when they're looking
for a new provider, they'relooking online and then they're
going to read your reviews.
They're looking online,weddings, brides, etcetera.

(20:53):
They're looking online.
So how do you facilitate 6million with two people?
Okay.
Now, listen, he's got some goodinstitutional customers, but
even if it's a 4 million, theinstitutional customers are
scheduled, even if it's 4million bucks, how do you do
that with two people without thetechnology in place?

(21:14):
That was the smartest thing hedid during the downtime.

I did, and, and here's the funny thing was me
and Josh Roman, I think it wasback in 2015.
I've known him all, all, all mylife, but when, back in 2015
that we were at the limo showand there was this company that
was launching the coding tool orcode something for, for, for,
uh, for us because I waslooking, like for example, I was

(21:37):
looking for something to presentto my clients when they want to
code.

Ken Lucci (21:41):
Yep.

You know, I, I was looking for something to present
to my clients.
I was looking for something thatwe can put like a, you know,
like, like a picture of a busand all that and, uh, or
something.
And there was nothing out therein 2016

Ken Lucci (21:54):
scratch

or 15.
A company came close, but we,and it was based in India.
But the funny thing was, it wasso difficult.
Me and Josh, we used to calleach other up and we set up the
emails.
We did everything and there wasnobody else.
There was nobody, like, like, Ineed something to send to my
corporate clients, like, hey,you want three buses at Expedia.
Okay, here are the three buses.

(22:16):
This is the cost.
This is your total.
And this is what I want you to,you know, this is the whole
price.
There was nothing out there.
I mean, we used to send anemail.
Hi, Mr.
Smith.
This is the price for the limoregard.
Thank you.
Please let me know if you haveany questions.
Yep, exactly.
We

look like then, right?
Obviously now you're down totwo.
How many did you have back then?

have five.

the work of five people is now being done by two.

Ken Lucci (22:43):
And when you consider when we will examine his numbers
and look at his transactioncost, it's the lowest, it's the
lowest around, right?

hmm.

Ken Lucci (22:54):
the way we do that is simple.
We take a look at thereservations and dispatch
expense on the P& L and then wedivide it by the number of
transactions.
I've got companies that are 22per transaction and they're
like, well Ken, you know, I haveto have the reservation staff
there.
I'm like, Dude, do you want themworking on a 15, 000 to 2, 000

(23:15):
bus run, or do you want themworking on a 150 airport

trip.
Yeah.

Ken Lucci (23:21):
your transaction cost is going to be the same.
So, you know, the vanilla icecream reservations, try to get
them online, but he's taken itto another level.
Other people, I mean, heliterally, when people will
call, he will let them know,geez, do you know that you can
do all of this online?
It's all on our, on our website.
And

And I just had a Meta uh, which is Facebook, uh,
a Meta client just booked a busfor a Christmas party online
before I got on on the, podcast,a corporate employee, a
corporate assistant does nothave time to call.
They want to be able to goonline and just look at the
rate.
And I could be the mostexpensive company.
They don't care because they arenot the one paying for it.

(24:06):
They just want the ease.
Okay, it's

Ken Lucci (24:08):
Friday.
And they want it done.

They want it done.
They want it done.

Get onto the

task Yep, it

Ken Lucci (24:13):
the other piece of this puzzle is.
All of the people in thecorporate travel departments are
young.
Well, certainly a lot youngerthan me.
But these are the kids that doeverything on their smartphones.
Everything online.
And when I hear operators say,Well, my customers like to call

Mm hmm.

Ken Lucci (24:30):
62 years old, is going to be sliding out into
retirement pretty damn quick.
And what's going to happen is,Millennials are going to choose
based on the ease of their job.
that's what, you know, and, andwhat intrigued me when, when we
started working with, with Jesswas when you looked at the
profitability of this business,I would say, why isn't every

(24:55):
company, he's come up right thesame way he's come up the same,
look, he had a great backgroundin, in bus.
Harry is an absolute genius asfar as I can see.
Right.
But he could have stayed withlimo.
And he could have just beenmarried to being in love with
Fleet, but technology is reallywhat's driving his business.

(25:18):
You know, and he's, you're alsobeing a little modest because
people have told me add ons isvery tough, very difficult to
set up and manage.
Talk a little bit about that.

You know, you know, yes, it is a bit difficult, but
once you get, uh, through thehurdles, okay?
Basically, my add ons, I believeI have not touched it for the
last three years, that much.
So

Ken Lucci (25:42):
once you set it

once you set it up, I mean, yes, I've increased the
prices, I've added but the hardpart is setting it up, but once
you have set it up, you know,and then came, uh, Bill Fade,
who was like, I think was like,I believe six years ago, Bill
Fade told me, Jess, you shouldhave it on every single page.
Not just the main page.

(26:03):
You should have it on the fleetpage.
You should have it here.
You should have it on your citypages.
You should have it everywhere.
And then I went crazy and justput it everywhere.
You know, and of course, I dohave some, SEO knowledge and I
do have some, knowledge aboutthat too, so, so, I was, it was
really helpful, but,

Ken Lucci (26:19):
Talk about your position in the market.
You are by no means the leastexpensive in your market.

No, I'm not, I'm probably going to say I'm one of
the, I'm right at about the 70,70 percent right there, per
style, medium high,

Ken Lucci (26:33):
medium high.
That's how you buildprofitability and

right.
Right.
Yeah, it is.
But the benefit is, you know,number, number one thing I, I do
see people not, not doing inthis industry is staying humble.
You know, I still answer thecalls.
I tell my staff, if there'ssomebody that has a huge
wedding, they need six, sevenbuses, transfer the call to me.
I want to talk to them.
If there's a big corporateevent, talk, you know, have them

(26:58):
talk to me.
You know, and that's the mainthing.
I'm not driving out there everyday.
I'm not on my cell phone.
I'm actually have a veryexpensive phone system, which is
high definition.
And that's one of the thingsthat I noticed.
Most of my competitors aretalking on the phone while
driving.

Ken Lucci (27:15):
Yeah, they're on their cell phones.

They're all, everybody's on the cell phone.
Nobody technically has an officeanymore.

Ken Lucci (27:20):
no, but, your organization is also flat.
Meaning you don't have a ton ofmanagement.

No.

Ken Lucci (27:26):
and it's family based.
It's family based.
It's family based.

Mm hmm.
Mm hmm.

Ken Lucci (27:32):
made the move into what I call institutional, you
know, meaning the private schoolside.
But talk about the rest of thecustomer makeup that you have.

My number one client, which everybody knows, I
reposted this on Facebook, isMicrosoft.
And they're back with avengeance.
They are spending more moneythan they have since pre COVID.
They are back.
And it's true, you know, whetherit's dealing directly with them
or through DMCs.

Ken Lucci (28:01):
DMCs is a big piece of your business.

DMC is the big piece of pieces.
I, I have four of the five bigDMCs

Ken Lucci (28:07):
Why do they use you?
Why did, why does a DMC keepcoming back to you?

I'm available.
I can talk to them.
If they want, if they want, theycan just call me.
They have my cell phone numbers,if they really, if they really
need me.
But everything is done throughemail.
the one DMC that I don't have, Idon't want them.
I actually fired them.
Because they were being too muchand I said, I'm, I'm, I'm done.
So I have four of the five bigones.

but that's a really good position to be in.
And that's something I'd want,I'd like you to expand a little
bit on

So,

lot of people that think they have to keep a client
no matter what.

Ken Lucci (28:40):
And they have to be the lowest price.

they have to be, yes.
Yes.

really what you want.

It has to do something with, I think,
availability and being the onestop shop.
I think just being, having theright equipment and having the
buses and all that.
Although I do have, I do havenoticed that this year a lot of
my DMCs are booking the buses,but they are not booking the
airport transportation.
Which has gone down, but that's

Is that being taken by Uber or

that's been taken by Uber.
I think that they, it has beentaken by Uber, but I'm trying to
pivot back because I'm talkingabout women's safety and I'm
also talking about, you know,they don't have to wait 30
minutes in the long Uber line inthe garage or anything like
that.
We know we are right there.
So there is a, there is a pivotfor next year.

Ken Lucci (29:27):
Yep.
Now, are you going to do thatwith in house?
Are you going to do acombination of in house and IO?
How are you going to approachthat?

Most of it, most of my work is actually done in
house.
The one thing good about me isthat, because I have all these
bus drivers, sometimes, youknow, not all the buses go out.
So I can pivot them into sedansand SUVs, and, and I've been
doing that.
You know, and so, it does workwell.
Like, we had a situation about,I think three weeks ago, when,
the show was happening, and weran out of buses.

(29:54):
And we have, you know, businesspeople that are working, uh, due
to, you know, maintenance orwhatever, but we have sprinters.
So, I told the client, good.
I'll charge you the same amountof money.
We have sprinters.
Can I bring in sprinters?
They said, just you do whateveryou want to do.
And those are the kind ofclients I love.
You do whatever you want to do.
you

your judgment and they allow you.

say, just make it happen.
They say, we don't care.
Just make it happen.
And that's the main thing is,you know, you know, I mean, of
course, I come, you know,Seattle, we have so many fortune
500 companies.
We have Microsoft, Boeing, wehave so many events going on
every time.
And besides me and I believe oneother company, there's really no

(30:29):
one else to handle it here inthe market.
So if any of the companies wantto come to Seattle, please come.

Ken Lucci (30:37):
So,

plenty of work.

Ken Lucci (30:39):
do you attract and keep your CDL drivers?
Because you've done a great job.
I don't see you perpetuallyshorthanded of CDL drivers.

No, I'm not.
I'm fully

Ken Lucci (30:51):
How did that happen?

Well, that's it.
Just, you know, many companiesthink, like, just because that
guy has a CDL, he can drive anybus.
Or, for example, I have a 65year old guy who's really great
with senior citizens.
I'm going to send him to all mysenior homes.
I have a couple of staff thatare great with kids and coaches,
so they are Then, of course, Ihave that, the The elite

(31:16):
drivers, which have been with mefor many years, and they know
every single building inMicrosoft.
They know every single building.
They basically just knoweverything.
And those are the guys thatalways do my high end work.
So there's always this, youknow, like I, you know, I have
school bus drivers.
Which I cannot send to acorporate job.

(31:37):
Because I know they're going toscrew it up.
So everybody, every employee hastheir limitations.
Oh, when I

in their strengths, right?
You've identified what they'regood at and you're having them
work in their strengths, which alot of companies

don't For example, a 68 year old driver does not
want to drive a party bus.
You know, but a young, yeah, no,of course not.
And, so there are all theselimitations with each driver,
and I've tried to learn fromthem, and I tried to see, uh,
for a brand new driver, everyday he comes back from a job, I

(32:13):
don't have a two minuteconversation with them and see
how it went, how they like it,how was it, you know, or stuff
like that.
There are some drivers that are,we have 73 year old drivers that
love doing the school, but ifyou send them out at, at 10
o'clock at night, they hate itbecause why it's dark and
they're getting old, you know,the, the, the lights flashing

(32:33):
and all that.
So

Ken Lucci (32:34):
You have to play for your, to your player's
strengths.
There's no question about it.

we do, we do.

Ken Lucci (32:40):
yep.
And to your point, you, youtreat them like A players.
You don't treat them likechattel.

No.

Ken Lucci (32:47):
know, um, the days of dispatchers screaming at
chauffeurs and CDLs,

Mm hmm.

Ken Lucci (32:51):
are permanently over.

Actually, it's still happening, believe it or
not.

Ken Lucci (32:56):
Oh, in some companies, the turnover,

still happening.

Ken Lucci (32:59):
see the turnover in some companies and I talked to
some owners and I'm like, itmight be a cultural issue.
Meaning

be, it might be.

Ken Lucci (33:09):
corporate culture has to change.
They have to be, they have tobe, you have to field your best
team and you have to play foryour players strengths.

You do, you do.
And, you know, and every companyis different.
I've seen them.
There are some companies, youknow, uh, You can judge a
company by how, by how old Andthat's, that's true.
Or how many years has that,that, uh, that employee has
worked for that company?
My oldest employee is 23 yearsold.
Uh, sorry.

(33:39):
He's, he's, uh, been with withme for 23 years.
Yeah.
My newest employee, I think issix months.
So, you know, and, and, I spoketo another company and he's 10
years old.
I, I believe he's 11 years old.
The company is his newest, his,his oldest employee is, is, uh,
19 months.

(34:01):
We're just, we're just crazy,

Ken Lucci (34:02):
Yeah.
Listen, we see that when we,when we have companies for sale
and they'll send over theirstaff list and they'll send over
their employee, their, theirstart date and you see it in as
2022 and the company's been inbusiness for 15 years, you know
that it's got a cultural issue.
It's got a corporate cultureproblem.

Yep.

it's very interesting because I've dealt
with companies where they'retrying to solve that, right?
They've come in and they've,they've identified, they've
said, Hey, we have a turnoverproblem.
Hey, we have this.
And it's interesting because ifI go back to those companies, I
guarantee you, if we startasking the experience, the
longer experienced people aregoing to be when that company
figured it out and changed it.
You're going to see that change.

(34:44):
And it's one of the biggestthings that I hear over and over
is people want to work at acompany where people care about
them or what they do matterswhere the owner actually
appreciates them.

Right! Appreciative.
Yeah.

Ken Lucci (34:58):
And it can't be, you know, it's like the old saying,
if you can fake sincerity, yougot it made.
You, you cannot fake take, youcannot fake taking care of your
people.
There's across the, across thebridge from me, there's a
really, you know, a largenetwork customer of mine.
And I went over there for afinance meeting and they were
having an, um, a chauffeur's,uh, birthday party.

Oh, wow.
Yeah.

Ken Lucci (35:23):
and, and this guy had been with him for like, I want
to say 18 years.
And we would all know who thepresident of the company is.
speaks at all, you know, spokenat our conferences and he got up
and he, he led the team, led theemployees.
And this is what this personmeans to my business and is
meant

Wow.

Ken Lucci (35:41):
And so, you know, it is corporate culture now more
than ever.
especially if you're, if you'redoing the remote worker thing,
or if you've got a field of, ifyour people are representing you
in the field, they better behappy because we've all seen.
We've all seen when we've beenpicked up by drivers and you can

(36:02):
tell they're miserable.
They're just miserable at whatthey do.
So, so talk to us about whereyou see Seattle going, where you
see your market going.
Do you see low price competitorsthat are you worried about low
price competition

I,

Ken Lucci (36:20):
feel you overcome that?

I think we have overcome that.
I think we have good reviews andjust a strong hold of the
market.
I think we have definitelyovercome that.
I believe 89 on, I think it'smore like 95 percent of the limo
companies in Seattle right noware one to two car operators,
you know, and, uh, you know, andthere, there is a market for

(36:43):
them to, I mean, they basically,we have a call from an IO every
day and You know, it is sadbecause right now I think every
market is going through a slowtimes right now,

Ken Lucci (36:54):
Yes, they are.

except for Florida and, uh, and, uh, Arizona.
But besides that, you know,events are because it's
Thanksgiving, it's Christmas,you know, everything is, is
coming down.
But, uh, but I believe Seattleis with, with that many Fortune
500 companies in Seattle.
I believe Seattle is, Seattleand San Francisco are, I think,

(37:17):
the two of the strongest cities.

Ken Lucci (37:19):
Yep.

Happening.
Mm hmm.
Mm

Ken Lucci (37:23):
some really great relationships you've relied on.
You've got a great insurance guythat you do business with.
You dad has great relationshipswith the manufacturers of the
equipment and

hmm.

Ken Lucci (37:35):
Talk to us about the importance of that.

Uh, well, number one is insurance.
We have been with the sameinsurance guy, I believe, for
the last 27, 28 years old.
Uh, 28.
Yeah, he does.
He takes care of me.
Uh, he, uh, You know, every timehe meets, he said, I have
everything covered from mypersonal properties to my
houses, to my rental properties,to the business.
He said, I have everythingcovered.

(38:01):
I just opened up a brand newdealerships, uh, a very small
used car dealership, and he'shaving a hard time getting me
insurance on that, that part ofthe business.
So, yeah, another business,

with you on everything, right?
This is someone that's guidedyou through all of your
insurance needs, right?

Yeah, he has, and he's having a hard time for a
new business.
Which is my used car dealershipbecause I get, my dad has this
old school contacts with like,uh, with like banks and I don't
know where he get way, how hedid it, but right before COVID
happened, I went down to Vegasto pick up a sprinter, which was

(38:36):
five years old and never readand never, ever registered from
the bank has 700 miles on it.

Wow.

Literally, and I don't know where he gets his
dealers.
Sometimes we get a lot of thesedeals.
So I say, you know what, let meopen up a, uh, used car
dealership so I can buy thesevehicles if I don't want them
and just fix them up and sellthem just like what, uh, Billy
Jinks is doing up in, uh,Phoenix, you know, and I said,
let me do it the, uh, legal way,which is open up a used car

(39:05):
dealership.
And, uh, unfortunately I'mhaving a hard time getting
insurance.
I've been, I believe I've beenlicensed for about two months
now.
I'm having a hard time getting,uh, insurance, business
insurance.

Ken Lucci (39:16):
I was on with the president of one of the largest
agencies today and, and I said,it's going to get worse in 25.
Listen, he said, absolutely,absolutely.
The reinsurance market isabsolutely horrible.
And he made a special point insaying the new new businesses
trying to come in to have aserious problem with accredited

(39:37):
a A rated insurance providers.

Which is what, yeah.

Ken Lucci (39:42):
and to your point back on the IO piece, I believe
2025 is going to be a difficultyear for the one and two car
operators.
I

It is.
I,

Ken Lucci (39:52):
going to be a rude awakening.

I, I just had an IO who bought a, I believe, a 24
Escalade, which I was like, whydid you buy an Escalade?
And his insurance came up to$16,000.
Mm-hmm

this is something I talked about and Ken's talked
about, it comes up a lot.
it a purchase of he bought theEscalade cause that's what he
needed?
Or he bought the Escalade causethat's what the market demanded.
Cause we see so many times theybuy the Escalade out of vanity
instead of business need.

it's a vanity.

Ken Lucci (40:24):
Yeah.
I mean, look, I routinely talkedto the chief operating officer
of probably the largest networkthat has the highest highest
touch clients in the entirecountry.
And I said, What do you say toan affiliate that says I want
to, I'm going to go out and I'mgoing to buy all escalades.
He said, Ken, that's a part ofmy business.

(40:46):
But the lion's share part of mybusiness is An executive who
wants to be seen as in asuburban, he does not want to be
seen in that escalate.
That's a huge mistake.
That's a huge mistake.

The only people that ever ask for escalates are
rappers.
Musicians

want, they want the status.
They want

yeah, yeah, exactly.
And that's not who we do.
I mean, I have one Escalade inmy fleet.
I have a 2019 Escalade withreally low miles that we hardly
use.
And I just, because everythingis, is a suburban and I just
bought a brand new 24 expeditionjust to try it out because we
got a super good deal.
But besides that, I just don'tsee, I mean, most, I mean, I

(41:25):
have the, the, uh, number fourguy at Microsoft just wrote last
night and he wrote in a 2019 MKTand he had no problems.

Ken Lucci (41:35):
Right.

He had

Ken Lucci (41:36):
to us about the affiliate piece because you
didn't have touch upon that.
How much, how much work do youdo on the affiliate side?
And what kind of advice wouldyou give an operator on growing
his customer base?

I believe my affiliate piece is about 30
percent of all my airport rightsare affiliates.
30 percent of my business, Iwould say 20, no I think it's
less than that I believe.
I think it's about 20%, so 20percent of my business is
affiliate business.

Ken Lucci (42:05):
But it's not with, it's, it's spread out among a

It's spread out with everybody.
Like, you know, it could be thebig three in Dallas.
It could be the, you know, it,it's all across the board, you
know, and the number one pieceabout that is GNAT.
Of course, you know, I stillhave people that don't have
GNAT, which is the stupidestthing, or I have people that,
that, that don't want to, I havea, I have an affiliate in New
York that it's on limo anywhere,just like me, and does not want

(42:28):
to send a trip through LA net.
And that's, they said.

reasoning or is that just stubbornness?

just stubbornness, they just, they just
stubbornness and we all know whoit is, and you know, everyone
hearing this would probably knowwho it is, and they are like,
well if things don't getupdated.
I'm like, how does things don'tget updated?
I mean that was one time,probably something happened in
that one time, you know and itdoesn't and and I explained to
them, I said, once we hitdispatch and it's within two

(42:58):
hours, yes things are not goingto get updated and I have
explained this to them but Theyjust, and then, you know,

Ken Lucci (43:03):
But it's it's evolving the business that I
don't understand the resistanceto change.
And if you were resistant tochange, first of all, you'd
still own taxis.
Second of all, you might evenstill be in stretch limousines
because there are guys holdingonto that.
There were people

Yeah.

Ken Lucci (43:22):
were, you know, your contemporaries.
that didn't pivot and see whatyou saw.
So, you know, one lesson isalways be evolving your
business,

It is, it is, it is, and, Yes, and, and I'm
looking for more, you know, as Iturn 48 next year, I'm looking
for a business that is Monday toFriday.
I'm trying to look for Monday toFriday business.
I don't want the Saturday latenight bar trips.
I had one I believe yesterdayone of my regular clients called
me for a night on the town and Ijust said i'm sorry I said I

(43:56):
don't do nine out of town andThey want the vehicle till 5 00
a.
m.
And I say sorry that that that'sa bit too short notice, you
know, because it is what it is.
I mean, as we get older and allthat wiser and all that, you
know, that stretch limo sits inthat parking space for six to
seven days in a row.
Not, not generating any income.
Yet the insurance on that thingis about 6, 000 a year at the

(44:18):
very

Ken Lucci (44:19):
wait a minute, that's in your case.
In

Yeah.
in my case,

Ken Lucci (44:22):
it's 10 to it's 10 And when you try to get people
to talk about asset utilization,well, you know, I, I use it for
one client or I have it for thisreason.
They don't even cover theircosts with it.

No, it doesn't.

Ken Lucci (44:38):
it's, it's crazy.
And that's, you know, that'severy piece of equipment.
You've also got some of thehighest utilization of your
vehicles.
You don't have a huge fleetsitting around.
You have

No.

Ken Lucci (44:49):
utilization.

I do because I wrote, yeah, because it's all
about rotation.
If somebody wants a 28 passengerbus, let's say, yeah, so I can
send a Gretch, I can send aStarcraft, I can send a Tiffany,
I can send a Turtle Top.
You know, client wants a 28passenger, they don't, they
don't care about, you know, Uh,about the brand.
That's another thing I want totalk about is the brand.

(45:12):
You know, there's a lot ofaffiliates.
They want Gretsch, which isgreat because we do have them.
We do have four Gretsches in ourfleet, but a lot of the general
public don't know what a Gretschbus is.

Ken Lucci (45:22):
No,

They have no

the P the people riding on that bus, aren't going
to have any

Yeah, and exactly.
They just want you to come 15minutes early.
They want a well suited driver.
They want a clean bus, andthat's all.
That's all they are looking for.

Ken Lucci (45:36):
And the people that turn over their motor, their
minibuses every five or four tofive years, they're crazy

They're crazy, yeah.

Ken Lucci (45:44):
know, and, and Harry's mantra is to make sure
everything gets paid off fast.

Right, he

Ken Lucci (45:50):
That's how, that's where you make, make all your
money is when you've got very,very low debt.

It is and both of my mechanics love me because I
pay them right away.
In fact, my, my school busmechanic that I, that I go to a
shop now, he loves us becausehere are truck drivers that are
taking two months to pay and wepay at the end of the week.

Ken Lucci (46:09):
That's curious that you don't have an in house, you
don't have a full staff of inhouse mechanics.
You have good shop relationshipsbecause you pay your bills.

I actually do have one, uh, one guy.
I wouldn't call him a mechanicmechanic, but you know, he does
a lot of the simple things like,you know, checking the oil, uh,
changing a tire or, uh, simplestuff like fixing things inside
and all that.
But if it's big, if it's a bigjob, for example, changing a
water pump on a 6.
7 liter, I'll probably send itout.

I think kind of as we wrap this up, it's
interesting because you, you'vehit on probably some of the most
fundamental things of running abusiness, you know, and I think
in this, this one episode wecovered so much, but I think the
key things that you've reallykind of pointed out are being
able to pivot, right?
Whether that's, whether that's.
Moving across the, you know,literally moving across the

(46:58):
world to start a new businessor, or even within your own
business, you've talked aboutthe importance of taking care of
your people and how important itis to understand, you know, the
people in your organization.
And even, even in the case of.
You know, trying to be moreeffective with technology,
treating those people that youhave the best you can.
And then now we've kind of comefull circle in knowing the

(47:19):
business, knowing what themarket wants.
So I think we're definitelygoing to have to have probably
two or three more episodes todive into those with you.
Um, but I think in this episode,we've really kind of dived in as
we kind of wrap it up.
Let me ask you, as someone who'sgrown up in this, who's seen
this, if you could share Onelast thing before we wrap this
up with everybody listeningright now, whether they're new,

(47:40):
whether it'd been the industry,what's the most valuable thing
that you would, you know, goback and tell yourself or that
you'd tell to others that are inthat same boat

I mean, I grew up in an era where we had the
whoever had the biggest yellowpage ad got the business.
This was, you know, if you havea full size yellow page ad, you
got the business.
I think if I were to restartthis business, I would probably
say I would probably be a buscompany.

just straight to the

straight to the buses.
you know, and, uh, you know, itlooks scary, but it wasn't, and,
you know, and if that is theonly thing I can tell my, my,
uh, younger self, yes, limoswere great.
We had the nicest limo, thebiggest limo, the six wheel
limos, all that, but that's afate.
It only lasts for a couple ofyears, four years, five years,

(48:25):
that's it.
Now, nobody even asks us forlimos.
I mean, all the corporate, theyjust don't want a limo.
They'd rather ride in a bus or aSprinter shuttle.
You know?

And, and I think that the best part of ending on
that for me, right.
And.
started in the buses, you wentto the taxis, you went through.
And after all of that, afterrebuilding the business, you're
right back in bosses.
So I think, I think for anyonelistening, there's a ton of
value there.
Jess, I can't thank you enoughon behalf of Ken, on behalf of
myself, everybody for coming on.

(48:54):
I, we miss having you around.
We miss seeing you at all theshows.
So hopefully we'll be able tohave you back and hanging out
more.
I know you've been absolutelykilling it, running the business
and thanks again for coming onthe show.

Thank you, James Cam.

right.

Ken Lucci (49:08):
and tell Harry I said hello.

I will.

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Therapy Gecko

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Turning a Taxi Business into a Mini Bus Empire, with Jess Sandhu

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