January 20, 2025 • 37 mins
In this heartfelt episode, Teresa welcomes Anne Marie, a lifelong friend, who shares her poignant story of loss and resilience after her husband Alexander's death in a ski accident in January 2011. Anne Marie discusses the emotional and practical challenges she faced, including supporting her two grieving children while completing the family home her husband had been building. Highlighting the critical role played by friends, family, and specific resources, Anne Marie credits Comfort Zone Camp, Krista St. Germain’s widowed mom podcast, and Elisabeth Kübler-Ross's 'Five Stages of Grief' as important aids in her recovery. She also touches on the remarkable bond and gratitude shared with one of the recipients of her late husband's organ donations, illustrating the powerful ways in which love and support can traverse even the most harrowing circumstances.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hi everyone.
Welcome to the show and happyMonday.
Today I'm joined by a veryspecial guest, a dear friend of
mine, Anne Marie, who I've knownfor over 30 years.
We're going to have a heartfeltconversation about a significant
(00:21):
loss she experienced and how shefound strength and support
during that very challengingtime.
Teresa (00:29):
Good morning, darling.
How are you?
ANNE-MARIE (00:33):
I am well.
Teresa (00:35):
I am so excited to have you on here as my very first
guest.
When I started planning thispodcast and brainstorming about
potential topics, I knew yourstory of strength and resilience
was one that needed to beshared.
I was deeply moved by everythingyou had been through and how you
(00:57):
navigated such a difficult time.
In January of 2011, yourhusband, Alexander went on an
annual ski trip with his friendsand you stayed home, right?
ANNE-MARIE (01:10):
Yes, You received a call on January 25th with some
shocking news that he had beenin a fatal ski accident.
This must have been anincredibly difficult time for
you.
Can you describe some of theinitial emotions and challenges
that you faced after this callif we start off with
(01:34):
emotionally, I had to learn tonavigate these two worlds that I
simultaneously found myself in.
I was in the physical world aswe know it, and then from the
other side, I had Alexanderstill communicating with me.
So that was, that was the first,emotional, task that I needed to
(01:57):
kind of get a handle on.
In addition to that, we've had,two children, Gabe was 12 at the
time, Gianna was 16, they wereobviously devastated and faced
with their own challengesbecause Alexander was, not only
a great dad, he was a very handson dad and he was a coach to a
lot of Gabe's sports and gabereally lost his hero, and Gianna
(02:20):
lost her dad and had to dealwith that at a college prep high
school, and she was a juniorthat year.
I had that on my plate as well.
And then, from a practicalstandpoint, I had to face the
irony that I would be the onefinishing this house, was only
80 percent done.
Had four rooms that were instuds.
(02:43):
I had a detached garage, whichhad been his construction shop.
Cause he was a generalcontractor building our home.
I had to empty the shop of allof the power tools that he'd
collected for 28 years so Icould demolish that old garage
and then make room for a newone.
I had the front and the backlandscape to redo.
(03:04):
I mean, it was a lot.
But, I was grateful thatAlexander and I had talked quite
often about each other's wishesin the event of our death.
I think we did that because wehad lost a lot of people already
(03:25):
in our married life.
And, we would discuss
Teresa (03:29):
Okay.
ANNE-MARIE (03:44):
When you know what your spouse's or your partner's
wishes are, then you're sort ofexecuting right?
You're not second guessingyourself and then also because
of this interesting experience Iwas having where I was able to
tap into him on the other sideOr he was more aptly tapping
into me I would be awoken threein the with song riffs that he
(04:07):
really liked.
And he was telling me in myhead, these were thoughts that I
did not put there.
They were like implanted in mybrain.
He was telling me what songs hewanted to have included in the
video montage that we wereworking on for his memorial.
What I found interesting rightfrom the start is that I had
married a guy, Alexander, hehimself had lost his dad when he
(04:29):
was 7.
My mother in law was 31 with 4kids under the age of 8.
And I had seen the consequencesof that loss in Alexander and in
his three siblings, whom I metas adults, right?
And I really felt in those earlydays that, all that he had
(04:50):
shared with me about hischildhood without a dad, it's
like it had provided me with aplaybook of sorts.
I had a knowingness about theexperience from a child's point
of view, because of what he hadgone through.
I knew that grief counseling wasgoing to be super important.
And my mother in law at the timedidn't really have access to,
(05:10):
nor was it really talked aboutmuch back then.
This is in the, early sixties,but I knew that I needed to get.
My children, some support moreso than what I could give them.
one night again three in themorning I'm awoken and I have a
very active child.
Gabe, is
Teresa (05:30):
Right.
Mm hmm.
Okay.
ANNE-MARIE (05:38):
came this place, this resource that I recommend
to anyone who finds themselvesin a situation with children.
It's a, a summer camp calledComfort Zone Camp, it is free,
and it's where all theparticipants are children from
the ages of five to 18, and youcan't go to camp unless you have
(05:58):
suffered a great loss.
It's supported entirely bydonations.
All the Greek counselors arethere as volunteers.
I mean, it's just, Amazing.
Gabe went in there suicidal.
He had a suicide plan that hehad shared with me I called the
director to say, Hey, heads up,this is my son and they were
(06:19):
very grateful for the heads up.
Again, this is not the firsttime this had happened, once my
son got there, he told me later,you know, he understood he was
not alone.
I think that's the
Teresa (06:29):
Yeah.
Right,
ANNE-MARIE (06:36):
He learned how to speak about how he was feeling.
He heard other kids talk abouthow they were feeling, and so he
comes out of that camp four dayslater me, mama, I am not going
to commit suicide.
I just couldn't do that to you,right?
That is absolutely incredible.
(06:56):
Your heart must have beensinging and you must have been
crying at the same time.
all at the same time, this place was just magic.
And it was started by a womanwho was a child herself when she
lost a parent and there were noresources for her.
So I can't say enough aboutcomfort zone camp.
then once we got home, he alsosaw a local counselor weekly for
(07:18):
a few months after that camp.
My daughter who was 16, she alsowent to grief counseling, but a
bit begrudgingly.
You know, I've always had a goodline of communication with our
kids.
So thankfully they openly sharedwhat they were feeling with me
to the best of their abilities.
And my daughter thought shecould just talk to me and I
would say, okay, but I'm notproperly trained.
(07:40):
For me, they're sharing.
While it was hugely important,it was probably the most gut
wrenching aspect of this sadsituation.
Teresa (07:49):
You're so fortunate that they were open with you and
shared these deep, dark feelingswith you it's just an
unbelievable lift more difficultwith teenagers because they're
very aware of what happened.
ANNE-MARIE (08:04):
Yes And because they were supported that gave me some
bandwidth to support myself
Teresa (08:11):
Yeah.
ANNE-MARIE (08:12):
I think if I had not had that playbook that I got
sort of Coincidentally bymarrying alexander who had lost
his dad when he was only seven Imight not have been as astute
but I really felt like I knewwhat I needed to do for them And
that enabled some time to freeup to try to support myself.
Teresa (08:36):
What would you say were some of the things that helped
keep you going?
When there was so muchhappening, you had two children,
you were trying to, guide andhelp get through their own
emotions.
You also had this unfinishedhome can you talk about.
(08:56):
The resources you leaned into
ANNE-MARIE (08:59):
sure.
There were many.
I'd say the first person Ireally leaned into at that time
was my sister, Isabelle.
She left her three young kidswho live four hours away and she
came to live here with my kidswhile I was at the trauma
hospital in Reno.
four days, I was arranging,Alexander's organ donations.
(09:22):
We were both organ donorsIsabella and I have been able to
talk about anything andeverything and she actively
listened to the details of allthis information that I was
getting from the other side fromAlexander and she never once
thought I was crazy.
That was golden for me.
I think another thing I did is,acceptance.
(09:44):
I accepted that on some level,his passing had to make sense
Teresa (09:50):
Right.
ANNE-MARIE (09:54):
who, one of the relatives who spoke at his
funeral said, figured God justneeded a master carpenter to
help him complete a new wing onone of his heavenly castles.
And Alexander is thrilledbecause he knows he has all of
eternity to complete it.
Teresa (10:15):
Yes,
ANNE-MARIE (10:16):
Yes, because at the time of his passing, we were at
the 12 year mark of rebuildingour home.
He took the house that we livedin on this lot for nine years
and he completely demolished it.
It became a hole in the groundand I was pregnant with Gabe and
we had to move out obviouslybecause I had no roof we were
fortunate to find a rental justa mile away and we rented for
(10:38):
nine years.
then it was like good enough forus to come in, like the kitchen
was done and we had onebathroom.
It was, it was pretty barebones, when he passed away, I
still had 20 percent of stuff tofinish and a new garage to
build.
I became a paper generalcontractor like overnight.
I really made it a point to talkabout Alexander with the kids
(10:59):
and with the others.
I have known people who havelost people and like, you can't
say their name and it's veryawkward and that's not the case
here in this house.
We talk about him often and he'sin every square centimeter of
this house cause he designed itand built it.
And his cremains are in abeautiful wooden urn that was
(11:20):
turned on a lathe and it'ssitting in the kitchen exactly
as he had requested.
when we had talked about thisearly on, eventuality of one or
the other dying, he wanted hiscremains to be in a beer stein
that he had collected fromGermany, he didn't, what he
didn't realize is that there area lot of cremains.
I mean, it's a lot of contentwhen someone goes through that
(11:41):
process.
I had again, friends coming outof the woodwork asking how they
could help, and I assigned thetask of purchasing an urn for
the cremains to one of ourfriends, he came back with this
beautiful urn that's all wood.
I mean, exactly Alexander'saesthetic and it's in the
kitchen.
We talk about him.
(12:02):
He left us a lot of funny and alot of loving memories.
And, and we revisit those oftenI also leveraged my mother in
law in, in a way.
she had succeeded with far fewerresources than I had, and she to
raise four wonderful humanbeings.
So that example also gave mecourage my parents were both 81
(12:24):
at the time.
And they reassured me that theywere there to help in any way.
And I was their 51 year oldchild yet.
Their offer was just socomforting, so comforting.
And then I have a great circleof friends who are reliable and
colleagues and neighbors andpeople feel helpless.
They feel helpless.
(12:45):
Alexander was loved in thecommunity and they would cross
my threshold, in tears.
And if you give them somethingto do, if you have a task that
you can assign to them, makesthem feel better because it
gives them something to do
I remember when I was recoveringfrom all the different surgeries
as a result of the major healthissues that I went through and
(13:07):
people would ask how they couldhelp and sometimes I wasn't sure
how they could help and it wasgreat when they just stepped up
and took charge.
Teresa (13:18):
People do feel helpless, they want to help.
And some people need moredirection than others.
ANNE-MARIE (13:24):
Yeah, it's great to have friends who, can
proactively suggest or do, whenI got back from Reno, I have a
pretty large kitchen with a lotof countertops and I couldn't
see the countertops Teresa, theywere covered with food, and
cakes and cookies.
People had come out of thewoodwork and Isabel is here, my
sister, greeting them all.
(13:46):
Well, we had food for days and afreezer stock full of stuff.
So I think that's the firstthing that people kindly offer,
right?
Because who's got the energy toeven think about going to the
grocery store.
I think if you get quiet, right,if you just get quiet and you
think seriously about, okay,what are the things in front of
me and how can people help?
I mean, I had a whole memorialto plan and it had to be a
(14:07):
really
Teresa (14:08):
right.
ANNE-MARIE (14:11):
I have the good fortune of having a great pod of
friends from my high school.
We plan our high school reunionstogether every five years.
And so we have this cadence andthe system, right?
I lobbied them they were myproxy and they got all the stuff
done that I envisioned I wantedand it was beautiful.
Exactly like it needed to be.
(14:31):
That's so incredible.
It's really wonderful to have avillage of friends supporting
you and who helped youorchestrate all of this.
Absolutely.
It would be really wonderful foreverybody to hear the people
that you connected with who haveAlexander's organs and talk
(14:53):
about the special bond that youmade with one of them in
particular.
When I was in the, trauma hospital in Reno, I'm
faced with a bazillion differentforms and, There were many
things and there were manyboxes, but there was one box
that I checked that asked if Iwanted to be contacted by any of
the recipients.
I want to be clear that noteveryone who's related to an
(15:15):
organ donor needs to check thatbox for some people, they don't
want to know.
I knew for me in that moment, Iknew that if I could understand
how His organs help somebodyelse, but that would help me.
I'm curious by nature and Iwanted to see right where this
ended up.
So I checked that box and.
Everything is anonymous.
(15:36):
It remains confidential.
I waited two years and I didn'treceive, any contact.
What would normally happen isthe recipient would be notified
that
Teresa (15:45):
hmm.
I'm not sure if that was a goodidea to get in there.
(16:08):
So, yeah.
I'm going to go ahead and say,I'm going to say, I'm going to
say, I'm going to say, I'm goingto say, I'm going to say, Okay.
(16:40):
Um,
ANNE-MARIE (16:41):
but in san francisco saw what was going on It was
really too late to do anythingand they actually called the
family in one fine morning tosay their goodbyes to her they
told the family, short of atransplant, this is not going to
end well.
And that afternoon, Alexander'sliver became available.
She wakes up from a coma in SanFrancisco.
(17:05):
welcome back, you're in SanFrancisco and you have a new
liver.
A little shocking.
In my letter, I explained, whothis guy was, right?
Who this donor was, what he wasabout, what his passions were.
I just really wanted therecipients to have an
understanding of him, as a
Teresa (17:22):
Um,
ANNE-MARIE (17:47):
Do tell.
He says, well, six months afterher transplant, go to her house
and I find her gutting thehallway bathroom.
Like, removing everything.
The tile, the cabinets.
I'm like, Tracy, have you everdone this
Teresa (18:01):
Okay.
ANNE-MARIE (18:07):
just gonna do it.
And mind you, they had no letterfrom me yet, right?
So
Teresa (18:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
ANNE-MARIE (18:24):
So, they get my letter and they're like, roh,
this makes sense now.
Teresa (18:31):
We know why she's suddenly interested in
remodeling her home.
ANNE-MARIE (18:36):
Right?
single woman
Teresa (18:40):
it's very miraculous.
ANNE-MARIE (18:41):
And he, Jim, is not a believer at all.
Jim is quite the scientist Thisreally had him scratching his
Teresa (18:48):
I bet it did because how can you explain that?
She had no interest in that orshe received Alexander's liver
and all of a sudden she's gotthis new found skill, interest,
ANNE-MARIE (19:03):
Passion!
Teresa (19:06):
Do you stay in touch with her?
ANNE-MARIE (19:09):
I do.
We get together for lunch acouple times a year he is such a
responsible recipient.
You know, she cares for thisliver with kid gloves.
I gave her a picture ofAlexander the first day I met
her in person.
And she tells me she keeps thatby her bedside and she thanks
him every day.
And she sends me birthday cardsand in the birthday cards,
(19:30):
she'll say, you know, I got togo to.
My grandson's high schoolgraduation.
And I know I wouldn't have beenable to do that without
Alexander.
And then the kid graduates fromcollege or somebody has a baby.
She's just so present and she'sso appreciative.
I didn't need to meet theserecipients or have a
relationship with them I see itas A blessing.
(19:52):
I mean, it sucks that myhusband's not here.
And, yet look at the blessing,that these people have had in
their lives and how appreciativethey are.
And, one of the
Teresa (20:04):
So what is the most important thing that I was
doing?
I was trying to make sure that Iwas, I was making sure that I
was doing it for the right Itwas just so important to me.
So if I'm going to do apresentation, I have to make
sure I'm doing it for the rightpeople.
ANNE-MARIE (20:16):
he asked me for permission to name his child,
Alexander.
When you become a widow.
everything changes.
Everything from you watch on TVto what you eat to the songs
that you listen to.
You realize how intertwined youare with your person when
they're suddenly not here.
(20:36):
It's more than just not havingthem in your bed to keep you
warm.
You know, it's just, everythingchanges.
Teresa (20:41):
Yeah.
ANNE-MARIE (20:42):
I was very, overwhelmed, understandably.
So at first, and, I did a fewthings that I think helped me in
my overwhelm that gradually Idid become, confident.
I'm a confident person by natureand there are a lot of reasons
for my confidence.
Was such a brand new adventureand I kind of looked at it that
(21:04):
way.
I did certain things to keep megrounded and help me through
that overwhelm.
And, gradually then it's like,okay, I got this.
You and I are alike.
Not everybody has a strong.
Will or a strong spirit To pushthrough when shit hits the fan
no matter what that is I thinkthat's what's drawn us to each
(21:26):
other being lifelong friends Andwatching each other go through a
lot in our adult lives It doestake a stronger spirit to push
through.
There's choices we have in thesemoments.
You've demonstrated, you choseto easy make sure you and your
children i, care of throughcamp, counseling, talking openly
(21:51):
to your kids, even though youyourself.
We're absolutely devastatedinside.
Yes, and I, I honored thatdevastation.
I am all about feel the feelingsI'm a very optimistic person.
You know that, but don't thinkit's prudent when you are faced
(22:13):
with something this shocking tojust play the happy game.
I think what's important is toallow yourself to feel the
feelings and that is what getsyou through.
So for example, we had a delugeof sympathy cards here and I
would get the kids off to schooland I would pick 10 sympathy
(22:34):
cards, make my cup of coffee.
while I drank my cup of coffee,I allowed myself.
To feel way I would sob as Idrank my coffee then I'd shower
and I'd get dressed and maybeput on a little makeup and you
know, I'd seize the day.
I think that's just vitallyimportant because the worst
(22:56):
thing about a shock, right?
Is, is the feeling and a feelingin and of itself is not going to
kill you.
So the more you can accept thefact that, yep.
This stinks, and feel what allof that is, I think
Teresa (23:08):
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
ANNE-MARIE (23:14):
I saw it as a, a growth opportunity.
I love that you honored yourselfby reading those cards.
It must have been incrediblydifficult bringing up a lot of
sadness and tears.
Many people would avoid thatchoosing to avoid the pain of
(23:36):
the emotions, but you gaveyourself that important moment
of reflection and processing amoment of therapy.
I really sort of innately knew, okay.
I need every synapse I have inmy brain, you know, banging on
all cylinders here cause I haveso much to deal with I didn't
(23:56):
drink for eight years.
I did not touch a drop ofalcohol for eight years
Teresa (24:00):
That's amazing.
ANNE-MARIE (24:02):
I needed to keep my wits, about me.
The other blessing that I dowant to point out is my employer
at the time, IBM.
They were awesome.
They granted me a three yearleave of absence.
Hello.
I had the HR lady repeat that onthe phone because I could not
believe what I was hearing myjob was waiting for me and
what's really interesting is, sothat was a three year leave of
(24:23):
absence.
And at the two year mark, thenthe house was finished, things
were really buttoned up, and mykids separately came to me and
said, so when are you going togo back to work?
Cause they knew I was the soleprovider before.
And I am clearly the soleprovider still is like, how is
(24:44):
this working?
I thought that that was a goodsign, but my goodness, the
blessing of the time to be here,to be the paper general
contractor, you know, managingall the people that I had here
to finish up.
Teresa (24:56):
The fact that your employer offered that benefit to
you.
I can't imagine what it wouldhave been like if you had the
financial strain on yourshoulders On top of everything
else it truly is a blessing.
And another sign of Alexander,sending his spirit to you and
(25:18):
everyone around you.
ANNE-MARIE (25:20):
it really was because I had never any
intention of working for bigblue.
You know, me, I was the startupperson, I never in a million
years thought I'd be workingthere, but one of my more
successful startups got acquiredby said company, and that's why
I ended up there.
And for the first six months, Ifelt like, well, we all felt
like we were banging our headsagainst a brick wall.
(25:42):
And Alexander would look at meand say, you know, but hun, it's
a big company.
You'll be able to find anotherrole that makes more sense, you
know, given the new landscape.
And, you know, you can stick itout a year.
He would tell me.
You could stick it out a year.
I took that guidance because Ihad no home.
He was rebuilding.
I had, you know, two kids inschool that I was funding.
I mean, the last thing I neededto do was to go and try to find
(26:04):
a different job because that's awhole cycle in of itself.
I stayed at IBM for 10 years, intotal 15 years.
But when this happened, I wasalmost near my 10 year mark.
And HR.
Saying my praises about all thegreat stuff I had done, which is
why they offered me the threeyear leave of absence.
But it's still just felt surrealto hear that.
It made every difference in theworld.
(26:25):
They gave me a toll free numberfor my children to call a
therapist.
If the to talk to some, just
Teresa (26:31):
yeah.
What would you say to others whoare facing this loss?
ANNE-MARIE (26:38):
I have a lot to say.
I do talk to widows on a prettyregular basis and I just, I just
level set with new widows,right?
There's the five stages of griefthat was put forth by Elizabeth
Kubler Ross.
There's, denial, anger,bargaining, depression,
acceptance.
She's got this framework that'ssupposed to help us learn to
live with our loss.
(26:59):
And.
I get why that idea of these,you know, stages, it feels
really comforting because whenyou're in the middle of this
grief, the thought that there'sa roadmap and like a clear path
with an end point.
I mean, that can feel like alifeline, but in my experience,
grief doesn't work like that atit is not linear.
(27:21):
doesn't
Teresa (27:22):
Right.
ANNE-MARIE (27:28):
I tell them there's no right way to grieve my
friend.
Grief is.
Messy and how you grieve is asunique as your relationship with
your
Teresa (27:38):
Um.
ANNE-MARIE (27:39):
I saw that with my family of three and I think what
really gets them to have theireyes widened is I explained that
grief is not something thatdiminishes over time.
Remains constant.
It's like a weight that wecarry.
And so over time,
Teresa (27:59):
Yeah.
ANNE-MARIE (28:05):
those feelings, I look at that, like lifting that
weight daily, then you buildthis emotional strength.
You build the muscle.
That you need to carry it, alsoa fabulous life coach by the
name of Krista with a K St.
Germain.
I don't know her personally.
I've never met with her, but Istumbled upon her and she
(28:28):
offers.
podcasts that are called thewidowed mom podcast.
I know she has a community onFacebook and she got into this
because when she was 40, herhusband suddenly died in front
of her, unfortunately, changinga tire on the side of the road.
He died in 2016, right?
And my husband had died in 2011.
(28:49):
So it would have been great tohave some of these resources
that she has put forth.
I can't say enough about herwork.
In listening to her podcast,even this far down the road,
they serve to give me
Teresa (29:00):
Okay.
Uh huh.
ANNE-MARIE (29:07):
post traumatic growth.
That's, that's a thing.
I definitely felt that I didn'thave those words, I knew I had
expanded.
I am just a much bigger and I'mmuch more, I'd even say capable
person because of thisexperience.
And then the other thing is Itell widows, we touched on this
(29:29):
earlier, not to be shy aboutasking for help or accepting
help, being open to help.
I think it's important to moveevery day.
I mean, I had a little doggythat I, that I still walk every
day and, and we do
Teresa (29:41):
I'm going to show you how to do it.
all for joining us today, and wehope to see you again soon.
Silence.
Right.
ANNE-MARIE (30:12):
any less.
Living proof that, you can havegrief and joy.
They can, they can coexist.
Teresa (30:18):
That's great to hear.
I loved the different resourcesyou leaned into, taking care of
your body because.
We can abuse ourselves when lifeisn't going our way.
It's amazing to hear how wellyou took care of yourself.
You just held it up so well
ANNE-MARIE (30:37):
yeah, every day.
And yeah, I mean, the griefbombs, they still come and
happen, and they catch yousurprise.
But you can't have thosefeelings living inside you.
That's also poison to your body.
I mean, you just can't.
Teresa (30:50):
Right.
ANNE-MARIE (30:51):
The only way out is through, feeling all of this
and, and allowing yourself tofeel the feelings.
And like I said, it's not goingto kill you, and it's
unpleasant, but you get to theother side and you're stronger
for it.
Teresa (31:04):
It's another life lesson
ANNE-MARIE (31:07):
it is.
And I thank you for thecompliment, but, you know, I
think back to when you're on theairplane and they talk about if
the air masks are going to popdown the parent or the adult is
supposed to put the mask onfirst and then the children.
And that's what I was.
It's like, you know, as mydaughter aptly stated, and you
know, you are the last parentstanding.
I needed to figure it out, forme and for them.
(31:29):
When I got back from Reno, Isaid, look, I've, never done
this before, but, I'm confidentthat together we will figure it
out.
Teresa (31:37):
Do you think knowing, you're the, the only parent for
your kids, that that also playsinto how well you take care of
yourself?
ANNE-MARIE (31:48):
I've always taken good care of myself.
That's just sort of been, I wasan athlete all through, you
know, school through college.
That's just sort of my makeup.
I come from.
I'm a hundred percent Basque.
We are people of the earth.
We eat real food.
I was blessed to have parentswith a fabulous vegetable garden
in the backyard.
They couldn't speak English, butthey made a mean soup and,
(32:11):
that's always been a part of me.
and what I did learn as I gotolder is how poisoned in many
ways, the food supply in theUnited States of America is, and
how you have to be all the morevigilant as
Teresa (32:25):
I'm a so much for joining us, and we'll see you
next time.
ANNE-MARIE (32:34):
this in your brain and even doing some of the
things that I was doing, thebody keeps score.
Teresa (32:40):
Yes,
ANNE-MARIE (32:40):
I try to help my body every way I can
Teresa (32:45):
Are there any traditions or ways that you and your kids,
celebrate Alexander's memory?
ANNE-MARIE (32:54):
We celebrate, as I said, kind of throughout the
year we think about him often,but like on his birthday, I'll
put a special little bow on topof his urn that sits in the
kitchen.
We'll light a candle.
He left us with an interestingthing.
My son and I both see thisoften.
So was also an athlete and heloved to wear the number 33.
(33:14):
When Gabe became an athlete andAlexander became a coach,
Alexander worked at such thatGabe often had the number 33.
So passes away and Gabe and Isee the number 33 in the most
random of places, but it's likein our face.
So we think of him then becausehe's, he's letting us know, you
(33:35):
know, he's around
Teresa (33:37):
Yes, all the time.
ANNE-MARIE (33:39):
You feel them around you at that time.
Unless you've lived it, it'slike, okay.
but once you've lived it, it'sjust undeniable.
They are trying to get yourattention to let
Teresa (33:49):
Mm.
ANNE-MARIE (33:49):
Hey, I'm one quick example is the summer after
Alexander passed away.
Gabe was graduating eighthgrade.
He had a lot of guy friends andfamilies who were going to
Hawaii.
I literally invited myself andGabe, to go with these couples
who I knew I've been with themsince kindergarten.
I said, Hey, I'd like to takeGabe sort of out of the house.
And they loved the idea and Idid proactively invite myself.
(34:12):
We get to the airport in Oahuand a
Teresa (34:17):
provided by Transcription Outsourcing, LLC.
ANNE-MARIE (34:19):
in for different hotels, you know, lots of
activity.
It's humid, you can hear thebirds, and we're waiting on a
bus, and our bus is 33.
Teresa (34:30):
Oh my God, no way.
ANNE-MARIE (34:33):
Way
Teresa (34:34):
There it is again.
There's that sign.
ANNE-MARIE (34:36):
out of dozens, and he just points to the bus and
looks at me and we're like, hun.
Teresa (34:43):
Yeah, there you are.
Thanks for sharing your story Ithink it's a very powerful
reminder of the strength andresilience of the human spirit
and how important it is.
To support each other throughdifficult times.
You had resources from friends,family, a lot of food,
ANNE-MARIE (35:08):
lasagna.
Teresa (35:09):
lots of yummy lasagna.
That sounds delish.
Not everybody has largevillages, and they have to find
their people that can be therefor them through the entire.
However long it takes to getthrough, you've got to have your
wall of people.
ANNE-MARIE (35:28):
And that's why I think a, a group like what
Christa St.
Germain has is reallyinstrumental.
That is the village.
And again, I didn't find heruntil way later because she
wasn't even doing this whenAlexander died.
But this a group of women whojust share openly and, provide
each other a tremendous amountof support.
Teresa (35:47):
some good resources here.
Thanks again, Ann Marie.
This was incredible.
You are such a resilient andstrong woman.
Teresa, thank you for thecompliment, but you are calling
the kettle black.
That's why we're such goodfriends, my dear
(36:07):
I hope everyone enjoyed hearingAnne Marie's journey she highly
recommends the three resourcesshe spoke about throughout the
interview.
I'm going to share them here thefirst is Comfort Zone Camp.
This is a free grief camp forchildren.
Their website iscomfortzonecamp, all one word,
(36:30):
dot org.
Krista St.
Germain from the Widowed Mompodcast.
And Elizabeth Kubler Ross TheFive Stages of Grief.
Thanks everyone for joining.
Until next time.
Hi everyone.
Welcome to the show and happyMonday.
Today I'm joined by a veryspecial guest, a dear friend of
mine, Anne Marie, who I've knownfor over 30 years.
We're going to have a heartfeltconversation about a significant
(00:21):
loss she experienced and how shefound strength and support
during that very challengingtime.
Teresa (00:29):
Good morning, darling.
How are you?
ANNE-MARIE (00:33):
I am well.
Teresa (00:35):
I am so excited to have you on here as my very first
guest.
When I started planning thispodcast and brainstorming about
potential topics, I knew yourstory of strength and resilience
was one that needed to beshared.
I was deeply moved by everythingyou had been through and how you
(00:57):
navigated such a difficult time.
In January of 2011, yourhusband, Alexander went on an
annual ski trip with his friendsand you stayed home, right?
ANNE-MARIE (01:10):
Yes, You received a call on January 25th with some
shocking news that he had beenin a fatal ski accident.
This must have been anincredibly difficult time for
you.
Can you describe some of theinitial emotions and challenges
that you faced after this callif we start off with
(01:34):
emotionally, I had to learn tonavigate these two worlds that I
simultaneously found myself in.
I was in the physical world aswe know it, and then from the
other side, I had Alexanderstill communicating with me.
So that was, that was the first,emotional, task that I needed to
(01:57):
kind of get a handle on.
In addition to that, we've had,two children, Gabe was 12 at the
time, Gianna was 16, they wereobviously devastated and faced
with their own challengesbecause Alexander was, not only
a great dad, he was a very handson dad and he was a coach to a
lot of Gabe's sports and gabereally lost his hero, and Gianna
(02:20):
lost her dad and had to dealwith that at a college prep high
school, and she was a juniorthat year.
I had that on my plate as well.
And then, from a practicalstandpoint, I had to face the
irony that I would be the onefinishing this house, was only
80 percent done.
Had four rooms that were instuds.
(02:43):
I had a detached garage, whichhad been his construction shop.
Cause he was a generalcontractor building our home.
I had to empty the shop of allof the power tools that he'd
collected for 28 years so Icould demolish that old garage
and then make room for a newone.
I had the front and the backlandscape to redo.
(03:04):
I mean, it was a lot.
But, I was grateful thatAlexander and I had talked quite
often about each other's wishesin the event of our death.
I think we did that because wehad lost a lot of people already
(03:25):
in our married life.
And, we would discuss
Teresa (03:29):
Okay.
ANNE-MARIE (03:44):
When you know what your spouse's or your partner's
wishes are, then you're sort ofexecuting right?
You're not second guessingyourself and then also because
of this interesting experience Iwas having where I was able to
tap into him on the other sideOr he was more aptly tapping
into me I would be awoken threein the with song riffs that he
(04:07):
really liked.
And he was telling me in myhead, these were thoughts that I
did not put there.
They were like implanted in mybrain.
He was telling me what songs hewanted to have included in the
video montage that we wereworking on for his memorial.
What I found interesting rightfrom the start is that I had
married a guy, Alexander, hehimself had lost his dad when he
(04:29):
was 7.
My mother in law was 31 with 4kids under the age of 8.
And I had seen the consequencesof that loss in Alexander and in
his three siblings, whom I metas adults, right?
And I really felt in those earlydays that, all that he had
(04:50):
shared with me about hischildhood without a dad, it's
like it had provided me with aplaybook of sorts.
I had a knowingness about theexperience from a child's point
of view, because of what he hadgone through.
I knew that grief counseling wasgoing to be super important.
And my mother in law at the timedidn't really have access to,
(05:10):
nor was it really talked aboutmuch back then.
This is in the, early sixties,but I knew that I needed to get.
My children, some support moreso than what I could give them.
one night again three in themorning I'm awoken and I have a
very active child.
Gabe, is
Teresa (05:30):
Right.
Mm hmm.
Okay.
ANNE-MARIE (05:38):
came this place, this resource that I recommend
to anyone who finds themselvesin a situation with children.
It's a, a summer camp calledComfort Zone Camp, it is free,
and it's where all theparticipants are children from
the ages of five to 18, and youcan't go to camp unless you have
(05:58):
suffered a great loss.
It's supported entirely bydonations.
All the Greek counselors arethere as volunteers.
I mean, it's just, Amazing.
Gabe went in there suicidal.
He had a suicide plan that hehad shared with me I called the
director to say, Hey, heads up,this is my son and they were
(06:19):
very grateful for the heads up.
Again, this is not the firsttime this had happened, once my
son got there, he told me later,you know, he understood he was
not alone.
I think that's the
Teresa (06:29):
Yeah.
Right,
ANNE-MARIE (06:36):
He learned how to speak about how he was feeling.
He heard other kids talk abouthow they were feeling, and so he
comes out of that camp four dayslater me, mama, I am not going
to commit suicide.
I just couldn't do that to you,right?
That is absolutely incredible.
(06:56):
Your heart must have beensinging and you must have been
crying at the same time.
all at the same time, this place was just magic.
And it was started by a womanwho was a child herself when she
lost a parent and there were noresources for her.
So I can't say enough aboutcomfort zone camp.
then once we got home, he alsosaw a local counselor weekly for
(07:18):
a few months after that camp.
My daughter who was 16, she alsowent to grief counseling, but a
bit begrudgingly.
You know, I've always had a goodline of communication with our
kids.
So thankfully they openly sharedwhat they were feeling with me
to the best of their abilities.
And my daughter thought shecould just talk to me and I
would say, okay, but I'm notproperly trained.
(07:40):
For me, they're sharing.
While it was hugely important,it was probably the most gut
wrenching aspect of this sadsituation.
Teresa (07:49):
You're so fortunate that they were open with you and
shared these deep, dark feelingswith you it's just an
unbelievable lift more difficultwith teenagers because they're
very aware of what happened.
ANNE-MARIE (08:04):
Yes And because they were supported that gave me some
bandwidth to support myself
Teresa (08:11):
Yeah.
ANNE-MARIE (08:12):
I think if I had not had that playbook that I got
sort of Coincidentally bymarrying alexander who had lost
his dad when he was only seven Imight not have been as astute
but I really felt like I knewwhat I needed to do for them And
that enabled some time to freeup to try to support myself.
Teresa (08:36):
What would you say were some of the things that helped
keep you going?
When there was so muchhappening, you had two children,
you were trying to, guide andhelp get through their own
emotions.
You also had this unfinishedhome can you talk about.
(08:56):
The resources you leaned into
ANNE-MARIE (08:59):
sure.
There were many.
I'd say the first person Ireally leaned into at that time
was my sister, Isabelle.
She left her three young kidswho live four hours away and she
came to live here with my kidswhile I was at the trauma
hospital in Reno.
four days, I was arranging,Alexander's organ donations.
(09:22):
We were both organ donorsIsabella and I have been able to
talk about anything andeverything and she actively
listened to the details of allthis information that I was
getting from the other side fromAlexander and she never once
thought I was crazy.
That was golden for me.
I think another thing I did is,acceptance.
(09:44):
I accepted that on some level,his passing had to make sense
Teresa (09:50):
Right.
ANNE-MARIE (09:54):
who, one of the relatives who spoke at his
funeral said, figured God justneeded a master carpenter to
help him complete a new wing onone of his heavenly castles.
And Alexander is thrilledbecause he knows he has all of
eternity to complete it.
Teresa (10:15):
Yes,
ANNE-MARIE (10:16):
Yes, because at the time of his passing, we were at
the 12 year mark of rebuildingour home.
He took the house that we livedin on this lot for nine years
and he completely demolished it.
It became a hole in the groundand I was pregnant with Gabe and
we had to move out obviouslybecause I had no roof we were
fortunate to find a rental justa mile away and we rented for
(10:38):
nine years.
then it was like good enough forus to come in, like the kitchen
was done and we had onebathroom.
It was, it was pretty barebones, when he passed away, I
still had 20 percent of stuff tofinish and a new garage to
build.
I became a paper generalcontractor like overnight.
I really made it a point to talkabout Alexander with the kids
(10:59):
and with the others.
I have known people who havelost people and like, you can't
say their name and it's veryawkward and that's not the case
here in this house.
We talk about him often and he'sin every square centimeter of
this house cause he designed itand built it.
And his cremains are in abeautiful wooden urn that was
(11:20):
turned on a lathe and it'ssitting in the kitchen exactly
as he had requested.
when we had talked about thisearly on, eventuality of one or
the other dying, he wanted hiscremains to be in a beer stein
that he had collected fromGermany, he didn't, what he
didn't realize is that there area lot of cremains.
I mean, it's a lot of contentwhen someone goes through that
(11:41):
process.
I had again, friends coming outof the woodwork asking how they
could help, and I assigned thetask of purchasing an urn for
the cremains to one of ourfriends, he came back with this
beautiful urn that's all wood.
I mean, exactly Alexander'saesthetic and it's in the
kitchen.
We talk about him.
(12:02):
He left us a lot of funny and alot of loving memories.
And, and we revisit those oftenI also leveraged my mother in
law in, in a way.
she had succeeded with far fewerresources than I had, and she to
raise four wonderful humanbeings.
So that example also gave mecourage my parents were both 81
(12:24):
at the time.
And they reassured me that theywere there to help in any way.
And I was their 51 year oldchild yet.
Their offer was just socomforting, so comforting.
And then I have a great circleof friends who are reliable and
colleagues and neighbors andpeople feel helpless.
They feel helpless.
(12:45):
Alexander was loved in thecommunity and they would cross
my threshold, in tears.
And if you give them somethingto do, if you have a task that
you can assign to them, makesthem feel better because it
gives them something to do
I remember when I was recoveringfrom all the different surgeries
as a result of the major healthissues that I went through and
(13:07):
people would ask how they couldhelp and sometimes I wasn't sure
how they could help and it wasgreat when they just stepped up
and took charge.
Teresa (13:18):
People do feel helpless, they want to help.
And some people need moredirection than others.
ANNE-MARIE (13:24):
Yeah, it's great to have friends who, can
proactively suggest or do, whenI got back from Reno, I have a
pretty large kitchen with a lotof countertops and I couldn't
see the countertops Teresa, theywere covered with food, and
cakes and cookies.
People had come out of thewoodwork and Isabel is here, my
sister, greeting them all.
(13:46):
Well, we had food for days and afreezer stock full of stuff.
So I think that's the firstthing that people kindly offer,
right?
Because who's got the energy toeven think about going to the
grocery store.
I think if you get quiet, right,if you just get quiet and you
think seriously about, okay,what are the things in front of
me and how can people help?
I mean, I had a whole memorialto plan and it had to be a
(14:07):
really
Teresa (14:08):
right.
ANNE-MARIE (14:11):
I have the good fortune of having a great pod of
friends from my high school.
We plan our high school reunionstogether every five years.
And so we have this cadence andthe system, right?
I lobbied them they were myproxy and they got all the stuff
done that I envisioned I wantedand it was beautiful.
Exactly like it needed to be.
(14:31):
That's so incredible.
It's really wonderful to have avillage of friends supporting
you and who helped youorchestrate all of this.
Absolutely.
It would be really wonderful foreverybody to hear the people
that you connected with who haveAlexander's organs and talk
(14:53):
about the special bond that youmade with one of them in
particular.
When I was in the, trauma hospital in Reno, I'm
faced with a bazillion differentforms and, There were many
things and there were manyboxes, but there was one box
that I checked that asked if Iwanted to be contacted by any of
the recipients.
I want to be clear that noteveryone who's related to an
(15:15):
organ donor needs to check thatbox for some people, they don't
want to know.
I knew for me in that moment, Iknew that if I could understand
how His organs help somebodyelse, but that would help me.
I'm curious by nature and Iwanted to see right where this
ended up.
So I checked that box and.
Everything is anonymous.
(15:36):
It remains confidential.
I waited two years and I didn'treceive, any contact.
What would normally happen isthe recipient would be notified
that
Teresa (15:45):
hmm.
I'm not sure if that was a goodidea to get in there.
(16:08):
So, yeah.
I'm going to go ahead and say,I'm going to say, I'm going to
say, I'm going to say, I'm goingto say, I'm going to say, Okay.
(16:40):
Um,
ANNE-MARIE (16:41):
but in san francisco saw what was going on It was
really too late to do anythingand they actually called the
family in one fine morning tosay their goodbyes to her they
told the family, short of atransplant, this is not going to
end well.
And that afternoon, Alexander'sliver became available.
She wakes up from a coma in SanFrancisco.
(17:05):
welcome back, you're in SanFrancisco and you have a new
liver.
A little shocking.
In my letter, I explained, whothis guy was, right?
Who this donor was, what he wasabout, what his passions were.
I just really wanted therecipients to have an
understanding of him, as a
Teresa (17:22):
Um,
ANNE-MARIE (17:47):
Do tell.
He says, well, six months afterher transplant, go to her house
and I find her gutting thehallway bathroom.
Like, removing everything.
The tile, the cabinets.
I'm like, Tracy, have you everdone this
Teresa (18:01):
Okay.
ANNE-MARIE (18:07):
just gonna do it.
And mind you, they had no letterfrom me yet, right?
So
Teresa (18:12):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Okay.
Okay.
ANNE-MARIE (18:24):
So, they get my letter and they're like, roh,
this makes sense now.
Teresa (18:31):
We know why she's suddenly interested in
remodeling her home.
ANNE-MARIE (18:36):
Right?
single woman
Teresa (18:40):
it's very miraculous.
ANNE-MARIE (18:41):
And he, Jim, is not a believer at all.
Jim is quite the scientist Thisreally had him scratching his
Teresa (18:48):
I bet it did because how can you explain that?
She had no interest in that orshe received Alexander's liver
and all of a sudden she's gotthis new found skill, interest,
ANNE-MARIE (19:03):
Passion!
Teresa (19:06):
Do you stay in touch with her?
ANNE-MARIE (19:09):
I do.
We get together for lunch acouple times a year he is such a
responsible recipient.
You know, she cares for thisliver with kid gloves.
I gave her a picture ofAlexander the first day I met
her in person.
And she tells me she keeps thatby her bedside and she thanks
him every day.
And she sends me birthday cardsand in the birthday cards,
(19:30):
she'll say, you know, I got togo to.
My grandson's high schoolgraduation.
And I know I wouldn't have beenable to do that without
Alexander.
And then the kid graduates fromcollege or somebody has a baby.
She's just so present and she'sso appreciative.
I didn't need to meet theserecipients or have a
relationship with them I see itas A blessing.
(19:52):
I mean, it sucks that myhusband's not here.
And, yet look at the blessing,that these people have had in
their lives and how appreciativethey are.
And, one of the
Teresa (20:04):
So what is the most important thing that I was
doing?
I was trying to make sure that Iwas, I was making sure that I
was doing it for the right Itwas just so important to me.
So if I'm going to do apresentation, I have to make
sure I'm doing it for the rightpeople.
ANNE-MARIE (20:16):
he asked me for permission to name his child,
Alexander.
When you become a widow.
everything changes.
Everything from you watch on TVto what you eat to the songs
that you listen to.
You realize how intertwined youare with your person when
they're suddenly not here.
(20:36):
It's more than just not havingthem in your bed to keep you
warm.
You know, it's just, everythingchanges.
Teresa (20:41):
Yeah.
ANNE-MARIE (20:42):
I was very, overwhelmed, understandably.
So at first, and, I did a fewthings that I think helped me in
my overwhelm that gradually Idid become, confident.
I'm a confident person by natureand there are a lot of reasons
for my confidence.
Was such a brand new adventureand I kind of looked at it that
(21:04):
way.
I did certain things to keep megrounded and help me through
that overwhelm.
And, gradually then it's like,okay, I got this.
You and I are alike.
Not everybody has a strong.
Will or a strong spirit To pushthrough when shit hits the fan
no matter what that is I thinkthat's what's drawn us to each
(21:26):
other being lifelong friends Andwatching each other go through a
lot in our adult lives It doestake a stronger spirit to push
through.
There's choices we have in thesemoments.
You've demonstrated, you choseto easy make sure you and your
children i, care of throughcamp, counseling, talking openly
(21:51):
to your kids, even though youyourself.
We're absolutely devastatedinside.
Yes, and I, I honored thatdevastation.
I am all about feel the feelingsI'm a very optimistic person.
You know that, but don't thinkit's prudent when you are faced
(22:13):
with something this shocking tojust play the happy game.
I think what's important is toallow yourself to feel the
feelings and that is what getsyou through.
So for example, we had a delugeof sympathy cards here and I
would get the kids off to schooland I would pick 10 sympathy
(22:34):
cards, make my cup of coffee.
while I drank my cup of coffee,I allowed myself.
To feel way I would sob as Idrank my coffee then I'd shower
and I'd get dressed and maybeput on a little makeup and you
know, I'd seize the day.
I think that's just vitallyimportant because the worst
(22:56):
thing about a shock, right?
Is, is the feeling and a feelingin and of itself is not going to
kill you.
So the more you can accept thefact that, yep.
This stinks, and feel what allof that is, I think
Teresa (23:08):
Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
ANNE-MARIE (23:14):
I saw it as a, a growth opportunity.
I love that you honored yourselfby reading those cards.
It must have been incrediblydifficult bringing up a lot of
sadness and tears.
Many people would avoid thatchoosing to avoid the pain of
(23:36):
the emotions, but you gaveyourself that important moment
of reflection and processing amoment of therapy.
I really sort of innately knew, okay.
I need every synapse I have inmy brain, you know, banging on
all cylinders here cause I haveso much to deal with I didn't
(23:56):
drink for eight years.
I did not touch a drop ofalcohol for eight years
Teresa (24:00):
That's amazing.
ANNE-MARIE (24:02):
I needed to keep my wits, about me.
The other blessing that I dowant to point out is my employer
at the time, IBM.
They were awesome.
They granted me a three yearleave of absence.
Hello.
I had the HR lady repeat that onthe phone because I could not
believe what I was hearing myjob was waiting for me and
what's really interesting is, sothat was a three year leave of
(24:23):
absence.
And at the two year mark, thenthe house was finished, things
were really buttoned up, and mykids separately came to me and
said, so when are you going togo back to work?
Cause they knew I was the soleprovider before.
And I am clearly the soleprovider still is like, how is
(24:44):
this working?
I thought that that was a goodsign, but my goodness, the
blessing of the time to be here,to be the paper general
contractor, you know, managingall the people that I had here
to finish up.
Teresa (24:56):
The fact that your employer offered that benefit to
you.
I can't imagine what it wouldhave been like if you had the
financial strain on yourshoulders On top of everything
else it truly is a blessing.
And another sign of Alexander,sending his spirit to you and
(25:18):
everyone around you.
ANNE-MARIE (25:20):
it really was because I had never any
intention of working for bigblue.
You know, me, I was the startupperson, I never in a million
years thought I'd be workingthere, but one of my more
successful startups got acquiredby said company, and that's why
I ended up there.
And for the first six months, Ifelt like, well, we all felt
like we were banging our headsagainst a brick wall.
(25:42):
And Alexander would look at meand say, you know, but hun, it's
a big company.
You'll be able to find anotherrole that makes more sense, you
know, given the new landscape.
And, you know, you can stick itout a year.
He would tell me.
You could stick it out a year.
I took that guidance because Ihad no home.
He was rebuilding.
I had, you know, two kids inschool that I was funding.
I mean, the last thing I neededto do was to go and try to find
(26:04):
a different job because that's awhole cycle in of itself.
I stayed at IBM for 10 years, intotal 15 years.
But when this happened, I wasalmost near my 10 year mark.
And HR.
Saying my praises about all thegreat stuff I had done, which is
why they offered me the threeyear leave of absence.
But it's still just felt surrealto hear that.
It made every difference in theworld.
(26:25):
They gave me a toll free numberfor my children to call a
therapist.
If the to talk to some, just
Teresa (26:31):
yeah.
What would you say to others whoare facing this loss?
ANNE-MARIE (26:38):
I have a lot to say.
I do talk to widows on a prettyregular basis and I just, I just
level set with new widows,right?
There's the five stages of griefthat was put forth by Elizabeth
Kubler Ross.
There's, denial, anger,bargaining, depression,
acceptance.
She's got this framework that'ssupposed to help us learn to
live with our loss.
(26:59):
And.
I get why that idea of these,you know, stages, it feels
really comforting because whenyou're in the middle of this
grief, the thought that there'sa roadmap and like a clear path
with an end point.
I mean, that can feel like alifeline, but in my experience,
grief doesn't work like that atit is not linear.
(27:21):
doesn't
Teresa (27:22):
Right.
ANNE-MARIE (27:28):
I tell them there's no right way to grieve my
friend.
Grief is.
Messy and how you grieve is asunique as your relationship with
your
Teresa (27:38):
Um.
ANNE-MARIE (27:39):
I saw that with my family of three and I think what
really gets them to have theireyes widened is I explained that
grief is not something thatdiminishes over time.
Remains constant.
It's like a weight that wecarry.
And so over time,
Teresa (27:59):
Yeah.
ANNE-MARIE (28:05):
those feelings, I look at that, like lifting that
weight daily, then you buildthis emotional strength.
You build the muscle.
That you need to carry it, alsoa fabulous life coach by the
name of Krista with a K St.
Germain.
I don't know her personally.
I've never met with her, but Istumbled upon her and she
(28:28):
offers.
podcasts that are called thewidowed mom podcast.
I know she has a community onFacebook and she got into this
because when she was 40, herhusband suddenly died in front
of her, unfortunately, changinga tire on the side of the road.
He died in 2016, right?
And my husband had died in 2011.
(28:49):
So it would have been great tohave some of these resources
that she has put forth.
I can't say enough about herwork.
In listening to her podcast,even this far down the road,
they serve to give me
Teresa (29:00):
Okay.
Uh huh.
ANNE-MARIE (29:07):
post traumatic growth.
That's, that's a thing.
I definitely felt that I didn'thave those words, I knew I had
expanded.
I am just a much bigger and I'mmuch more, I'd even say capable
person because of thisexperience.
And then the other thing is Itell widows, we touched on this
(29:29):
earlier, not to be shy aboutasking for help or accepting
help, being open to help.
I think it's important to moveevery day.
I mean, I had a little doggythat I, that I still walk every
day and, and we do
Teresa (29:41):
I'm going to show you how to do it.
all for joining us today, and wehope to see you again soon.
Silence.
Right.
ANNE-MARIE (30:12):
any less.
Living proof that, you can havegrief and joy.
They can, they can coexist.
Teresa (30:18):
That's great to hear.
I loved the different resourcesyou leaned into, taking care of
your body because.
We can abuse ourselves when lifeisn't going our way.
It's amazing to hear how wellyou took care of yourself.
You just held it up so well
ANNE-MARIE (30:37):
yeah, every day.
And yeah, I mean, the griefbombs, they still come and
happen, and they catch yousurprise.
But you can't have thosefeelings living inside you.
That's also poison to your body.
I mean, you just can't.
Teresa (30:50):
Right.
ANNE-MARIE (30:51):
The only way out is through, feeling all of this
and, and allowing yourself tofeel the feelings.
And like I said, it's not goingto kill you, and it's
unpleasant, but you get to theother side and you're stronger
for it.
Teresa (31:04):
It's another life lesson
ANNE-MARIE (31:07):
it is.
And I thank you for thecompliment, but, you know, I
think back to when you're on theairplane and they talk about if
the air masks are going to popdown the parent or the adult is
supposed to put the mask onfirst and then the children.
And that's what I was.
It's like, you know, as mydaughter aptly stated, and you
know, you are the last parentstanding.
I needed to figure it out, forme and for them.
(31:29):
When I got back from Reno, Isaid, look, I've, never done
this before, but, I'm confidentthat together we will figure it
out.
Teresa (31:37):
Do you think knowing, you're the, the only parent for
your kids, that that also playsinto how well you take care of
yourself?
ANNE-MARIE (31:48):
I've always taken good care of myself.
That's just sort of been, I wasan athlete all through, you
know, school through college.
That's just sort of my makeup.
I come from.
I'm a hundred percent Basque.
We are people of the earth.
We eat real food.
I was blessed to have parentswith a fabulous vegetable garden
in the backyard.
They couldn't speak English, butthey made a mean soup and,
(32:11):
that's always been a part of me.
and what I did learn as I gotolder is how poisoned in many
ways, the food supply in theUnited States of America is, and
how you have to be all the morevigilant as
Teresa (32:25):
I'm a so much for joining us, and we'll see you
next time.
ANNE-MARIE (32:34):
this in your brain and even doing some of the
things that I was doing, thebody keeps score.
Teresa (32:40):
Yes,
ANNE-MARIE (32:40):
I try to help my body every way I can
Teresa (32:45):
Are there any traditions or ways that you and your kids,
celebrate Alexander's memory?
ANNE-MARIE (32:54):
We celebrate, as I said, kind of throughout the
year we think about him often,but like on his birthday, I'll
put a special little bow on topof his urn that sits in the
kitchen.
We'll light a candle.
He left us with an interestingthing.
My son and I both see thisoften.
So was also an athlete and heloved to wear the number 33.
(33:14):
When Gabe became an athlete andAlexander became a coach,
Alexander worked at such thatGabe often had the number 33.
So passes away and Gabe and Isee the number 33 in the most
random of places, but it's likein our face.
So we think of him then becausehe's, he's letting us know, you
(33:35):
know, he's around
Teresa (33:37):
Yes, all the time.
ANNE-MARIE (33:39):
You feel them around you at that time.
Unless you've lived it, it'slike, okay.
but once you've lived it, it'sjust undeniable.
They are trying to get yourattention to let
Teresa (33:49):
Mm.
ANNE-MARIE (33:49):
Hey, I'm one quick example is the summer after
Alexander passed away.
Gabe was graduating eighthgrade.
He had a lot of guy friends andfamilies who were going to
Hawaii.
I literally invited myself andGabe, to go with these couples
who I knew I've been with themsince kindergarten.
I said, Hey, I'd like to takeGabe sort of out of the house.
And they loved the idea and Idid proactively invite myself.
(34:12):
We get to the airport in Oahuand a
Teresa (34:17):
provided by Transcription Outsourcing, LLC.
ANNE-MARIE (34:19):
in for different hotels, you know, lots of
activity.
It's humid, you can hear thebirds, and we're waiting on a
bus, and our bus is 33.
Teresa (34:30):
Oh my God, no way.
ANNE-MARIE (34:33):
Way
Teresa (34:34):
There it is again.
There's that sign.
ANNE-MARIE (34:36):
out of dozens, and he just points to the bus and
looks at me and we're like, hun.
Teresa (34:43):
Yeah, there you are.
Thanks for sharing your story Ithink it's a very powerful
reminder of the strength andresilience of the human spirit
and how important it is.
To support each other throughdifficult times.
You had resources from friends,family, a lot of food,
ANNE-MARIE (35:08):
lasagna.
Teresa (35:09):
lots of yummy lasagna.
That sounds delish.
Not everybody has largevillages, and they have to find
their people that can be therefor them through the entire.
However long it takes to getthrough, you've got to have your
wall of people.
ANNE-MARIE (35:28):
And that's why I think a, a group like what
Christa St.
Germain has is reallyinstrumental.
That is the village.
And again, I didn't find heruntil way later because she
wasn't even doing this whenAlexander died.
But this a group of women whojust share openly and, provide
each other a tremendous amountof support.
Teresa (35:47):
some good resources here.
Thanks again, Ann Marie.
This was incredible.
You are such a resilient andstrong woman.
Teresa, thank you for thecompliment, but you are calling
the kettle black.
That's why we're such goodfriends, my dear
(36:07):
I hope everyone enjoyed hearingAnne Marie's journey she highly
recommends the three resourcesshe spoke about throughout the
interview.
I'm going to share them here thefirst is Comfort Zone Camp.
This is a free grief camp forchildren.
Their website iscomfortzonecamp, all one word,
(36:30):
dot org.
Krista St.
Germain from the Widowed Mompodcast.
And Elizabeth Kubler Ross TheFive Stages of Grief.
Thanks everyone for joining.
Until next time.
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