August 6, 2025 • 46 mins
Ready to reclaim your energy, sanity, and self-worth? In this episode, we’re diving into the unapologetic, liberating mindset of giving zero fucks—specifically, the 10 things we’ve learned to stop caring about at midlife. From good girl conditioning to comparison culture, we unpack the beliefs and behaviors that no longer serve us and explore what it means to live more freely, authentically, and powerfully in this season of life.
Episode Highlights:
[0:03] – Reclaiming your time and energy with a zero-fucks midlife mindset
[0:40] – Why being nice instead of honest keeps us stuck
[4:25] – Letting go of comparison and honoring your own path
[7:04] – Releasing outdated visions of what life "should" look like
[11:52] – Caring less about what others think—spotlight effect and all
[16:40] – Ditching the scale: body image, aging, and radical acceptance
[21:55] – No more default caretaker role—how to share the labor
[26:04] – Redefining beauty: aging with grace, or not
[30:49] – Hustling for approval: letting go of external validation
[36:23] – Playing small to keep others comfortable? Not anymore
[41:16] – Letting go of expectations for other people’s lives
If today's discussion resonated with you or sparked curiosity, please rate, follow, and share "Insights from the Couch" with others. Your support helps us reach more people and continue providing valuable insights. Here’s to finding our purposes and living a life full of meaning and joy. Stay tuned for more!
Come hang out with us in The Chat, our free community for midlife women, where we keep the
conversation going at insightsfromthecouch.org/the-chat.
And don’t forget to
download our free guide 7 Skills to Master Midlife so you can stop living small, start taking action, and
live the life you really want at insightsfromthecouch.org/midlife-roadmap.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Colette Fehr (00:03):
All right, today we're going to be talking about
zero fucks, 10 Things to stopcaring about at midlife. This is
all about reclaiming your time,your energy, your sanity, and
I'm so excited to get into thiswith you guys, because Laura and
I had a lot of fun and somegreat discussions as we prepared
for this episode and realized wewere on the same page in many
(00:24):
ways, but what we don't careabout anymore, now that we're at
midlife, that we want to sharewith you, and as always, we
can't wait to hear your feedbacktoo. So join our chat at
insights from the couch.org,Laura, let's get right into it
with number
Laura Bowman (00:40):
one, let's go being nice instead of honest.
How does that one hit you? I
Colette Fehr (00:47):
mean, I think this is a lifelong thing, right? Good
girl conditioning. I call it inmy book and in life, good girl
itis like it's an infection thatwomen have for too long, been
valued for being kind and sweetand nurturing. And I'm not
saying there isn't room forthat, but often it comes at our
own expense, and it'ssuffocating.
Laura Bowman (01:10):
Yeah, I mean, I definitely have suffered with
this in my day for sure. Like, Ilove the Gone Girl passage on
cool girl, and cool girl is justlike, down for anything, and she
flattens herself out and sandsoff the edges to make herself so
palatable to whoever she'saround. And for somebody like
(01:31):
me, where I talk about I have,like, that reflexive sort of
agreeableness that I've talkedabout in other episodes, like
getting out of that reflexive,let me just be nice. Let me keep
it an emotional 72 degrees atall times. Has been a huge shift
over the years to getting a lotmore honest, a lot more in the
(01:53):
moment, and saying, like, how Ifeel now. I think honest can be
a little rough. I think somepeople think that it's a binary,
like, either I'm nice or I'mhonest, right? And and I think
some older people are just like,I'm just being honest, and they
can be end up being
Colette Fehr (02:08):
cruel, right?
Let's be clear that honest isn'tmean it's healthy, and honest
can be and should be deliveredwith tact and diplomacy. That's
also being a mature adult, butwe're talking about not not
being nice. I mean, I do like tothink that I am kind, which a
lot of people will differentiatefrom Nice. We're talking about
(02:29):
being nice when it's betrayingyourself, and that is the
pathway to resentment.
Swallowing your feelings andneeds is the fastest way to get
sick, medically and physicallysick, and also to be a miserable
human. So I think the beauty ofmidlife is that as women,
especially as our estrogen goesdown, and we're not as obsessed
(02:53):
or wired to caretake everyonearound us emotionally, that
finally we can say, You knowwhat, I actually don't want to
do that. You know what? I'm notavailable, or just the full stop
sentence, which is a fullparagraph, no, no, without
explanation. And this requiresthe ability to tolerate people
having their reactions, lettingthem have whatever they their
(03:16):
reaction is, whatever theirfeelings, and learning to sit
through the discomfort of notalways making people happy.
There's no way to do it exceptto go through and to get more
and more comfortable.
Laura Bowman (03:28):
That's it. That's it being that bad guy, saying
the true thing, that what otherpeople are not happy with you,
and you tolerating that andstill kind of going on your way
and doing what's right
Colette Fehr (03:38):
for you. Yeah. And before we move on. Classic low
level example, a bunch of womenwho are all like trying to be
agreeable, right? We don't eventhink about it. We do it
naturally. It's like, where doyou want to go to lunch?
Everyone's like, I don't care. Idon't care. I don't care. You
know what? Care? Say yourpreference. If someone hates
say, I'd love Thai food. Ifsomeone doesn't like Thai food,
(03:58):
let them say I hate Thai food.
Okay, fine. Then what do youwant to do? Right? Like, just
start to assert your actualopinion. You're not being
difficult. Society has fucked usover by making us think, having
an opinion and expressing itmakes us difficult or too much.
So let's get rid of that one atmidlife. Yeah,
Laura Bowman (04:18):
and that's a great point too. Like, just start on
those low level things and startbuilding you want to go on the
next
Colette Fehr (04:25):
one here. Sure, I love this one, measuring
yourself against other people.
We all know Comparison is thethief of joy. It's a waste of
time. And midlife is really aseason that is not about
competing with other people.
It's about realizing you runyour own race, you should be
growing, but you should becompeting with old you versus
(04:45):
you now and where you want to gowith future you. There's always
going to be someone if we have avictim mentality. First of all,
our brains are naturally wiredfor comparison, so it's not like
you're doing anything wrong, butwe. Have to recognize that and
override it by instead of seeingourselves as, oh, they're doing
(05:06):
better than me, or I'm not whereI'm supposed to be. I hear
clients say this all the time.
Instead, it's like, look how farI've come, and where do I want
to go?
Laura Bowman (05:15):
Yeah, yeah. And I just want to normalize like
comparison. I mean, they've donestudies on this, on like, like
apes, where it's like, if youare, like, at the low end of
your group, it's like, it'sphysically painful, like, it's
like, it like your life is atdate in danger, really, if
you're the low level of theherd. So it's like, very painful
(05:35):
to be in, like, a comparativesituation where you feel like
you're not doing well. It's ahorrible feeling,
Colette Fehr (05:42):
right? And that's why we naturally compare,
because the person who's doingthe best in a herd has the most
access is to resources and livesthe longest now that we're
hijacked, right? And that's whyit is a biologically wired
imperative. So again, it'snormal that we're all going to
be prone to some comparison andsocial media, as we've talked
(06:04):
about in other episodes, doesnot help, because we're
subjected to a ridiculously widelens of comparables, but we've
got to try to find a way todrown that out and keep our
focus on, am I doing better thanI was yesterday? What are my
small goals? What am I gettingright and like, how do I want to
grow? How do I want to look backin six months a year, five
(06:26):
years, and look at Wow, old mewas there, and look where I am
now. That's the comparison thatmatters.
Laura Bowman (06:33):
And like, just building a life of your own
values, it's so easy to get,like, sidetracked by what
everybody else is doing andbeginning to like, fill in the
blanks with like, this is whatother people care about. Maybe
this is what I should careabout. And really just saying,
No, this is kind of what I careabout. And the other stuff, I
need to sort of put someblinders on to
Colette Fehr (06:52):
right now that you should be doing what other
people are doing, because ifthey're doing it, it should be
important. You know what'simportant to you? Who are you?
What do you want? Exactly? Amen,Okay, you go for number three,
Laura Bowman (07:04):
okay, living up to a life you thought you'd have by
now.
Colette Fehr (07:10):
I mean, I don't know about you, but I see this a
ton in therapy.
Laura Bowman (07:14):
Yeah, I do too. I I see it a ton. I think that
it's easy to like, if anythinggoes wrong, to feel like you're
not on pace. This can happenwith kids and jobs and romantic
relationships, if you're notlike, hitting these
developmental milestones, likeit's just like, I've fucked the
(07:35):
whole thing up, and now it's notworth having.
Colette Fehr (07:39):
Yeah. And also, I think for a lot of people, when
something hard happens, you losea job, you go through a divorce,
maybe you see everyone aroundyou. Back to the comparison
piece, too, seems to have moreaffluence or more access, or an
easier job, or like I wastalking to somebody recently,
all their friends are retiring,and they're not in a position to
(07:59):
retire. So those comparativethings can can bring this to
life inside of you. But I thinksometimes we just look around
and go, This isn't what Ithought it was going to be. And
I think this is a malaise thatcan set in at midlife, because
in many ways, we've beenstriving until now, and there's
(08:19):
a feeling of, okay, now I'marriving right? This is the
culmination of all my hard work,and if you feel like you're not
where you envisioned, even, evenif it's not comparative to other
people, that can be painful tocome to terms with. I just think
the big thing is, if we staythere, then we can really slip
(08:41):
into victim mentality and missthe gratitude piece and all of
the promise and potential ofthis season.
Laura Bowman (08:49):
Yeah. I mean, I think that life sometimes is
like the game of Candy Land. Doyou remember Candyland, of
course, where you're like, rightabout to get to, like the Candy
Castle, and all of a sudden youend up in like, the Gumdrop
swamp, yeah? Like, what? Like, Iwas on pace for this, and now
I'm here. And I think a lot oflife is like that it is and,
(09:12):
like, normalizing that everybodyhas some version of this in
their life, and we have to beable to, like, cope our way
through this, yes,
Colette Fehr (09:23):
and what I see, I was just thinking it's also
Chutes and Ladders is the same,and realizing how those games
are the same, exact game whichis different motifs. This is
only occurring to me. Candy Landway better. Yeah, me too. Me
too, because I like candy betterthan playgrounds. But that is
what life is like, and again,we're seeing everybody else's
(09:43):
highlight reel so they seem likethey're only moving ahead on the
board. Yeah. Meanwhile, trustus, everyone is just as
miserable, if not more miserablethan you at least a good
percentage of the time.
Everyone's stressed, everyone'sscared. You know, everyone
struggles behind the scenes.
Means, but you're right that wehave to be able to cope with
(10:04):
what is, I think this is such ahugely important ability and
capacity to develop at midlife,because otherwise you just sort
of give up and and you do slipinto that paralysis of victim
mentality. Yeah. So I think thecoping comes from saying, like,
a little bit of humor, a littlebit of right, like, okay, so,
(10:27):
you know, my bank account has$40 in it. This is not what let
me just out myself at some timesright now, when I'm in this
entrepreneurial season, youknow, this isn't where I thought
I was gonna be exactly, but insome ways, I'm also in places
that are more exciting anddifferent, and there's always
(10:47):
the option to pivot, to grow.
It's never too late. One thingwe know for sure is that things
will always change. That's theonly thing that's guaranteed.
Laura Bowman (10:57):
Yeah, and it's so funny, I did this whole thing on
resilience with, like, thewomen. What was there was a
couple men in the group at theUniversity Club. And so
everybody there is, like,almost, like, 75 years or older,
and everybody was talking abouttheir resilience journey. And
these people were amazing. Andthey just, like, sharply, gave
me a new perspective. One woman,you know, her, like, had grown
(11:19):
up in like, two world wars, andso her family had gone through
these, these wars andkidnapping. I mean, just crazy
stories, and it makes you golike, Oh. So I think on top of
the coping with humor is alittle bit of perspective,
cultivating gratitude, beingable to be in the moment and
realize how many things areworking. I think we get such a
(11:41):
negative bias on what isn'tworking that you can just get
hyper fixated on that. But allof those things help pull you
out and help you cope with this.
Colette Fehr (11:52):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Okay, let's go on to
number four, what other peoplethink of you? You know, we all
say that. That's probably themost cliched one, I think this
is on a spectrum and acontinuum. And speaking for
myself, first of all, this isanother thing that's survivally
wired right? Doing well andthriving and living long means
(12:13):
you have to fit into the herd.
So that comes with some degreeof caring what people think
about you. So let's justnormalize that. Unless you're a
sociopath, you probably do care,and probably will continue to
care. It's certainly appropriateto care about your inner circle
and how you impact them andthose relationships. But beyond
that, I think midlife is anopportunity to shed a lot of the
(12:34):
obsessing of how you sounded or,you know, men don't go through
this as much Some do, some do,but women, we tend to be so
relational, so conscientious, soworried about, were we not nice?
Were we this? Did we look that?
Are we being too show offy aboutour success? Were we too
(12:56):
assertive? Did we not considerothers? Did we force our opinion
and great all the Gook. And thereality is a lot of people
aren't going to like us. Peopleare jerks. Most of how they
respond to you is about theirown capacity and their own inner
templates. And freedom from thisreally allows you to go after
(13:17):
the life you want to live,however big or small. Yeah,
yeah,
Laura Bowman (13:20):
that's true. I love what Martha Beck says about
how we all have what she callsthe our everybody, like
everybody thinks this orwhatever. And she says, If you
really dig down into youreverybody, it's like three to
five people that we live in ourimaginary audience of who is
watching us and what they thinkof us, to realize that, like
(13:41):
these, people are so much morefocused on themselves, and that
nobody is really watching yourlife with like a
Colette Fehr (13:48):
microscope, right?
I mean, the reality is, thoughpeople do have judgments, and it
can be painful to bump upagainst that, but I also think
that we can get stuck in that.
And your Martha Beck thing isamazing, because it's really, it
may even be smaller than threeto five. Could be like two
(14:10):
people, yeah, or for somepeople, it's one. You know, it's
that critical parent that isstill shaming them on the inside
that they're now projecting intowhoever else in society. So I
think, notice who those voicesare, and acknowledge that it is
painful. If you heard overheardsomeone saying something
(14:32):
negative about you, it wouldhurt, and you'd also survive,
because you're a mature, healthyadult, and like you said people
aren't paying as much. It's thespotlight effect, where we think
the spotlight is a psychologicalterm, as you well know Laura
about it feels like everybody'swatching, especially, you know,
(14:52):
I do all this social media,these videos, and I've gotten
some nasty little comments aboutmy physical appearance, and I.
Uh, other things, like my bigforehead, my boobs being
visible, that I'm like, Manhating that I'm, you know, for
excusing men. You name it.
Everybody. What is it thatexpression everybody has an
asshole and an opinion? Yeah, Ilove that. Yeah. So it's like,
(15:15):
okay, yeah. You know, it'stoughened me up a little. And if
I'm honest, it still hurts. Andat the same time it's also like,
okay, next
Laura Bowman (15:28):
it's a little bit of the cost of admission. I
think that people it is, I sortof expect that people have
negative things to say abouteverybody, but I also understand
that it comes from a placewithin self, yes, where like,
they're reacting to something ina person that's like being
pulled up for them? Yes, I havegotten, like, a perspective that
(15:48):
I think there is negativity outthere, and it's just something
we have to be able to movethrough
Colette Fehr (15:54):
exactly and hurt people. Hurt people mean. People
are angry and unhappy in theirown lives, some people have
something negative to say aboutanyone, and the truth is, if
you're thriving, there are goingto be those miserable souls that
can't handle it and want to tearyou down. So the more we develop
a little bit of a buffer and abetter relationship within
(16:17):
ourselves to validate that. Youknow, hey, this person, as they
say, about 80% of some howsomeone treats you, and
sometimes it could be more isabout them. Very little is about
you. I think reminding ourselvesof that can help us build the
muscle to let go of what otherpeople think of us. More and
more, I agree. All right, youhit number five,
Laura Bowman (16:40):
the number on the scale or the size on the tag. I
know some women who have notgotten past this. Oh, I think a
lot of people, yeah, we just didan episode on that. And I mean,
I, I don't know if I'm like,over this entirely, but I
definitely am not going to like,live my life based on on those
(17:01):
things anymore, like I and Iwill not be one of these women
like that. Will shove theirshoe, their foot, into a size
shoe that doesn't fit, or adress that doesn't fit, because,
damn it, there is size four,right? I know people like
Colette Fehr (17:12):
that. Yeah, I used to do that. I used to get very
upset if I wasn't a certainsize. I didn't want to buy the
bigger sizes, as someone whoseweights fluctuated. And I was
just writing about this on substack a little where I do my
little vim life newsletter thatyou know, one of the things
that's changed for me as I wasthinking about this episode, one
(17:33):
of the things that's changed isbeing willing to, like, be up
and about in a bathing suit.
Now, arguably, even though I'velost weight on these diet shots,
arguably, my body does not lookthe best. I mean, it's not the
worst it's ever looked, but it'sdefinitely really far from the
best. Things are sad, saggy anddroopy and so on and so forth.
(17:54):
All the things that happen, notfor everyone, but for a lot of
us. And I think back to earliertimes in life where I was in
objectively, really good shape,and I looked great in a bikini,
and I still felt all this shameand consternation. So I won't
pretend that it's all gone. WhatI wrote about in sub stack is
(18:14):
that I've been as a Gen X woman.
I'm too conditioned by themisogyny and the patriarchy and
the long term objectification ofwomen, to have shed this
completely, we'll see where I amby 70. But for now, what's
amazing to me is that I'm notgonna, like, cover myself up.
(18:37):
I'm gonna stand up. And if youlook at my body and you're some
dude and you're judging me. Iactually don't give a fuck.
Laura Bowman (18:45):
Yeah, I agree. I'm a Gen X woman too, in the J Crew
mag, like, magazine, what wasit? Catalog did a number on me,
like, I still my beautystandards are like, like, I
don't know. The J
Colette Fehr (18:58):
Crew catalog, the J Crew catalog. God, this woman
had no fucking figure,
Laura Bowman (19:03):
but I did, and I would look at that and I would
be like, Oh, my God, that's whatI should look like. And I gotta
pick three toys. Secret from the90s, really, like, I couldn't
even get into the idea that,like, having a butt was a good
thing. I've had younger clientstell me that having a butt is a
good thing. And I just can't get
Colette Fehr (19:19):
into but it's a certain kind of butt. It's not
like a wide, flat ass, yeah?
It's, it's like, bubbly, yeah,juicy bottom. I know, I know,
but it's just like, it neverclicks. I want to be in the J
Crew catalog, yeah, because KateMoss was our age, and you're a
little younger than I am, but itwas like looking starved and
being a wave, and you can neverbe too thin or too rich. I mean,
(19:42):
that was the mantra,
Laura Bowman (19:45):
yeah. And so I'm shedding it, but it's I'm gonna
function. And I care more aboutliving life than I care about
what my the size of, you know,my rear end, or my dress sizes.
But like, you know, I think thatwe're all this. Is a work in
progress.
Colette Fehr (20:01):
I agree, and I think we have to acknowledge
that it's really tough if youare somebody who's been
relatively effortlessly thinyour whole life according to a
societal standard, you may notnecessarily, but you may have
less struggle with this, like Ihave one friend like that who
was rail thin. Our nickname forher was bone in college. She
(20:22):
does not. There's no noise aboutthis, but that's about the only
friend I can think of, of 40 or50 people that I've been friends
with over the year that hasn'thad some of it. And I think what
we're suggesting is, let'saccept ourselves with a little
more grace. It's mainly, maybeit's not perfect. Maybe there's
(20:43):
still some inner critic or somestriving. But I notice now,
whatever size I am, I am, Inotice, like, oh, I look a
little chubby in a picture. It'snot flattering. You know,
sometimes I want to re shoot it.
Sometimes I'm like, It's fine.
It's good enough. You know, it'sjust a little more accepting.
And also, let's just say this isa number that's been done on all
(21:06):
of us, because guys go aroundwith their gut out, and for the
most part, they don't care, andnobody shames them for it. It's
so true, not on the level thatwe have been all right, okay,
you want to hit number six, yes,being the default caretaker. So
this is a big one. You know, theperson who holds it all together
(21:27):
carries all the emotional laborat home, at work, and the
relationships and so many womenhave been carrying this burden,
if not entirely on their own,carrying most of it throughout
most of their life. But thatdoesn't mean we should continue.
You know, now's the time tolearn how to ask for help and
accept it when it's imperfect,and to really delegate tasks to
(21:52):
other people and to say, no,
Laura Bowman (21:55):
yeah. I mean, I've certainly been the default
caretaker in raising my kids,and I would say, in the last
several years, like, my husbandhas really, like, stepped in to
do a lot of things, and becauseI've been working more, and it
just, I'm okay with that. I'mlike, there's just certain
things I can't be around to do,and I don't think I should be
(22:17):
around to do. And so just fadingout of that role a little bit is
really appropriate foreverybody. I like being a
caretaker, just to be clear,like I that's a natural part of
my personality. I kind of, Ikind of do default to that. But
I I've stepped out of it alittle bit to where I don't need
(22:37):
to be the person rushing in tohave, like, the deep
conversation. I can let my kidssort of figure things out on
their own. I can let a littlespace set up between me and a
problem with with my family. Ican let other people do the
dishes. Let other people movethe wash from the the, you know,
the washer to the dryer. Foryears, I was always the point
(22:58):
person on these things, and Ithink fade out, see what it's
like to sort of loosen the reinson this.
Colette Fehr (23:06):
Yeah, because a lot of times in therapy, and I
know you see this too, we talkabout this a lot that people get
very especially type a women,one of the strings that binds
you to this that's self imposed,is the idea that it has to be
done just right and Okay, well,they won't do it the way I want
(23:27):
it done, which is a controlmechanism, so then I have to do
it. And that just you've got torecognize that that's a trap
you're setting for yourself. AndI hope by the time you hit your
late 30s, your mid 40s, sometimein there, you let that go,
because that is an anxietymechanism at play that keeps you
on the hook for more than youshould be doing. We're not
(23:49):
saying don't be a caretaker.
It's wonderful to nurture yourfamily, your friends, your
partner, yourself. Being caringand giving to others is a
positive attribute, but itshouldn't come at the expense of
your essential self. And ifyou're the only one doing it,
you're not accepting help. Youhave outdated scripts you still
run that relying on help makesyou weak. You should have to do
(24:12):
it all. You're the only one whocan do it, just so I'm
challenging we're challengingyou to, like, hold that lightly
and look at those beliefs alittle. And like you said, just
see if you can sit with even alittle. Let someone unload the
dishwasher that's hard for you.
Yeah, and let them. Let them doit wrong. Let them do it wrong.
(24:32):
Let the forks be mixed with thespoons. It really doesn't
matter. And
Laura Bowman (24:37):
just noticing that, like if you are the point
person in a family system whodoes a lot of the caregiving. No
one's gonna let you out of thatrole. No one's gonna write a
hand written invitation and say,you know, Mom, I think you
should really take a step backand let other people
participate. They will keepheaping on responsibility. So
(24:57):
until you begin to pull yourselfout. Of the role, no one's going
to recognize you as like a yourown being.
Colette Fehr (25:05):
Yeah. And this is one thing that comes up in a lot
in couples systems, is women areso sick of carrying all the
household and domestic labor anddoing many cases, women are
working and they still feel likethey're doing because they are.
Studies have shown women arestill doing 70 75% of the tasks
at home. But I also think what Iencourage people to do as a
(25:27):
couples therapist, that someonewill say, Well, I don't want to
have to I disagree with that. Ithink you should ask, and you
should make it clear, hey, Ineed you to do this. And if you
want your partner to think aboutthose things more naturally.
That's great. But if it's notlikely to happen, then assert
yourself already and say, Youknow what would be helpful if
(25:49):
you do X, Y, Z, and I didn'thave to tell you how to do it,
figure it out. But then you haveto let it be flawed and
imperfect. There you go. Allright. You have all right.
Number
Laura Bowman (25:59):
seven. Seven looking ageless. It's
Unknown (26:04):
hard.
Laura Bowman (26:06):
No, I mean, I'm comfortable looking however I
look from age. I want to lookgood for my age. We did a whole
episode on this. I think we'vedone a few. I want to just look
like I'm pulled together for myage. I'm not willing to do crazy
things to look younger. Somewomen definitely are, but I know
in these next 10 to 1520 I mean,it's not getting better from
(26:27):
here. You know what? I mean,it's gonna be like, it's gonna
be kind of like a slow degrade,yeah, of youth. And so I think
making some sort of peace withthat,
Colette Fehr (26:39):
yeah, accepting and being able to allow some
version of aging. And I justwant to say, because everybody's
different, we talked about inour episode the midlife mirror,
we really drilled in on vanityand how vanity can get toxic and
hold us back and even lead tomental health issues. But I want
to say, you know, if you'resomeone who getting stuff done
(27:02):
to your face is super importantto you, and you don't want to
have wrinkles here, you want toget Botox, or you want to get
whatever that eye lift thing isthat I probably really need
already go for it, like upperbleph. Or is that? What is that?
Yeah, I don't know, but I know Iprobably want to get it
eventually. Even though I'mreally scared of doing
procedures. I don't want to be.
I don't want to turn this intosome like, moralistic like,
(27:25):
okay, because I'm comfortablewith getting old. You should be
too No, I what I want to say is,you do you, and maybe we don't
have to as women, look likeChristy Brinkley at 70, because
most of us aren't going to, evenif we subject ourselves, like,
(27:46):
I'll never look that good, evenif I was operated and on every
day, all day, like there's andnever ate food again. Like, it's
just not in the cards for me. Sogiving yourself a little bit of
grace and coming to terms withokay, what, what things really
make me feel good, and whatthings are like I am so
terrified of aging that I can'ttolerate when I look in the
(28:11):
mirror, anything that doesn'tlook like I'm 25
Laura Bowman (28:17):
Yeah, I have a lot of compassion for people that
are at that place, because Ithink it's really torturous. I
agree with you. I'm not here to,like, judge anybody for whatever
they do. I don't know if, like,you know, 10 years from now, I'm
talking about a facelift. Idon't know where I'll be with
it. I don't know what I'll getoccupied either. But I'm hoping
(28:39):
that I can move through thesestages like with you, with
grace. That's it, exactly theword, the word of life, Grace,
Colette Fehr (28:47):
yeah, and that it's okay to look good, but look
your age. Yeah. You know, Ithink that we're seeing people
go gray more again. I'm notsaying that's for everyone. I
know, I've cut back on my Botox.
I've cut my Botox in half, bothin the amount of Botox and the
frequency that's been to date.
(29:09):
The only thing I've done isBotox. My what social media
followers like to tell me is myenormous forehead,
Laura Bowman (29:17):
and it is big.
Really tell you that
Colette Fehr (29:19):
online I've had multiple comments. One guy the
other day goes, Wow, I even goin the comments. It's still,
it's the forehead, I know. Butyou know what? It shows me how
much I have grown. Because Ireally wasn't like that
bothered. I mean, I do have abig forehead. When I first saw
it was a little hurtful andshocked. It's shocking. And then
(29:41):
I was like, All right, whatever,come at me. You're probably some
nasty little like troll, grosstroll hiding in a bat cave
somewhere, like, Fuck off,right? It's
Laura Bowman (29:52):
never good, a good sign if you're trolling the
comments on somebody else,creating some my
Colette Fehr (29:57):
big forehead has surely been an asset in. Some
way. But anyway, I think it'sjust giving I'm at 52 going on
52 Any moment now, having toreally, I see a big shift, even
since I was your age, and likehaving gone through menopause,
like things start to change evenmore. And I think being able to
(30:23):
take some of it with a grain ofsalt and then decide, okay, what
things really make me feel good,make me feel confident, and
everybody's probably got adifferent place. But let's not,
let's like, shed the idea thatwomen are supposed to look 30
forever. Yeah, it's notrealistic. No, yeah. And again,
it's something other people areimposing on us.
Unknown (30:47):
Okay, am
Colette Fehr (30:49):
I hustling for approval? You take it away.
Laura Bowman (30:54):
I don't feel like I've ever hustled for approval.
So I don't know if I can relateto this one. I just don't I
don't really hustle forapproval. I mean, I'm trying to
think, if I do
Colette Fehr (31:05):
okay, well, I can say that I have hustled for
approval in some areas of mylife, and I know that a lot of
our clients do. This issomething that a lot of people
struggle with, like feeling thatyour validation, your worth,
your value, comes from theoutside, that people giving you
(31:29):
positive feedback, telling youyou're pretty telling you You
did a good job, reinforcing yourvalue without that, a lot of
people feel empty, and they feeldown on themselves. And I think
for me, where I used to hustlefor approval was in the
relational space, probably morethan anything. I think I was
(31:50):
well validated by my parents asa child, so that didn't, I
don't. I've never felt likeworthless or that I don't have
value or worth. But I think ifyou don't have people,
particularly when you're young,giving you those messages, both
implicitly and explicitly, thisbecomes the thing that can chase
(32:11):
you into adulthood. But I wouldstruggle to find it in my
romantic relationships where Iwould want to be I would need a
lot of feedback, that I lookgood, that I was still loved,
that I was giving enough, doingenough, keeping someone's
attention, looking hot enough,whatever these old ideas I had
(32:33):
about a woman having to likecontinue to captivate a man, and
my first marriage fed into Allof that. It was that kind of
relationship. So it was, I wasinsecurely attached, but I don't
feel that way now. I do feel alittle bit of the need to hustle
for approval when I'm delvinginto something totally new,
(32:57):
where I don't have a lot ofconfidence. I mean, I felt like
I really hustled for approvalfor my agent, my book agent, you
did my book editors, you know,it's something I've never done
before. So I didn't haveconfidence that I am a writer or
that it was good enough unlessthey told me so. And even that's
shifted now. But I think thereare different areas this can pop
(33:21):
up in life. I
Laura Bowman (33:22):
think that's right. I as you're talking, it's
it becomes really evident to methat I'm a little bit allergic
to this. And I think it's just,it's the same feeling, but an
opposite approach, whereas,like, if I feel the tension that
I'm hustling for approval, Itake myself out very quickly.
And I'm not saying that's a goodthing, because, like with the
(33:43):
book thing, you have to stay inthat tense place to get
somewhere sometimes where youdon't feel adequate, and you do
have to kind of work your waythrough it. And I have a
pattern. I'm just outing myself,of like, if I feel this in a
relationship, or in anythingwhere I feel driven into like, I
(34:04):
find myself searching forexternal validation, to feel
okay, I like, take my ball andmy bat and I go to another
playground.
Colette Fehr (34:13):
Yeah, yeah. So it's so in some senses, it can
also be a form of protectingyourself from, like I protect
myself rejection and mayberight, and that can also lead us
to avoid some things that areworthy struggles. Total thing
that has for you,
Laura Bowman (34:29):
but it probably has, well, capacities. I'm sure
it has, but that's another thatyou know, whether you're
whatever end of this you're on,you've got to be able to know
when to hold them and when tofold them, you know, right? See,
is it worth a game, worthplaying, or is it one that it's
just not worth it and you don'twant to be in that trap?
Colette Fehr (34:51):
Yeah, and what I'm just thinking, as you're saying
this, is that I think it's bewilling to hustle at times for
something you want. Yeah, butdon't make the whole thing about
approval. So I didn't write abook and put myself through all
that torture because I wanted tofeel worthy. I did it because I
wanted to share my message withthe world. Because it's always
(35:12):
been a goal for me to be anauthor since I was a little
girl. Those are the reasons Idid it. I found myself along the
way, feeling insecure and attimes, falling into being a
little more needy of externalvalidation than I normally am.
And so sometimes you just haveto kind of notice that that pops
up. But I think at this stage oflife, if you're still feeling an
(35:36):
emptiness or questioning yourworth or value, which a lot of
people are, and again, a lot ofthis is conditioned in childhood
without other people'svalidation, then that's
something to really work on,because we all deserve to feel
whole and worthy just by virtueof breathing,
Laura Bowman (35:54):
yes, and I think there's a lot of people that
have never gotten there, orthey've just been so used to
getting so much approval fromother people that they become
like approval addicted. And it'slike, tell me I'm good, tell me
I'm pretty tell me you love me.
Tell me you like my work. It'slike they just they don't know
how to sort of self soothe, andthey don't know how to self
validate. And that's what we'resaying in midlife, pull that
(36:16):
locus of control in and be ableto have a conversation where you
add some of that for yourself.
Colette Fehr (36:23):
Exactly. That's what I was going to say, like,
give this to yourself. Because Iused to say, even though the
love languages isn't a realthing, I used to always say, my
love language is words ofaffirmation. It's really not
anymore. It's not the way itused to be. I feel like I give
myself more validation and needthat less from others. Sometimes
it still feels good to havesomebody see you and recognize
(36:46):
you. Of course, we're human,but, you know, I think this,
this, there's a lot more spacehere than to feel addicted to
needing that feed to feel goodenough. That's what we're
talking about, okay, we got twomore, playing small to make
others comfortable. I love thisone, me too. I mean, I think
(37:09):
that just what we're doing, likeeven this podcast, is, I mean,
or the way you show up on socialmedia, you've done a lot of big
things. How is it? Are youplaying Are you? Do you care
about playing small to makeother people comfortable at this
point? No, no. I mean, I don'tthink I'm playing small on any
level, on any level. I don'tthink it would have ever shown
(37:29):
up for me as the narrative islike, oh, I need to play small.
I think there was, like, alittle bit of I think the thing
that maybe held me back in thepast was self consciousness. I
get easily embarrassed. I dofeel a lot of spotlight effect,
I think, also a sense ofimposter syndrome that we know
we're going to do an episode onthis. So stay tuned for that one
(37:51):
me too, a feeling like, who am Ito do that? You know, needing
8000 trainings and titles tofeel like I'm finally qualified.
And I think what's happened onthis because I am at a stage of
life where I'm trying to, Imean, I am playing big now, I
don't know what the outcome isyet, but I am not playing small
(38:13):
anymore in any area of life,even if it means being
uncomfortable, embarrassingmyself, failing, I'm still
putting it out there, and Ithink it's really, really
freeing. I just think the onlyway, if that's a struggle for
you personally, what I wouldshare is that the only way
through that is by exposure. Isby repeatedly doing it. We have
(38:35):
to get comfortable beinguncomfortable, or we're going to
keep playing small.
Laura Bowman (38:39):
Yeah, and I think a big piece of this is playing
small to make other peoplecomfortable. Like it's that idea
that if I reduce myself, somehowthat's a service to other
people, and it's so theopposite, like you doing
everything you're doing. Colettegives everybody a model for the
fact that, like, some of thatcan be done
Colette Fehr (39:00):
right by anyone,
Laura Bowman (39:02):
by anyone who wants to do it right. And I
think that the we need more ofthat in the world. So I don't
think you do anything foranybody playing small. I think
all of us women need examples ofpeople who went after things,
tried things. And so I'm I don'tdo that anymore either. About
like, how is so and so going tothink about this? Yes? Like, I
(39:25):
don't have that narrative now.
I'm somebody who, justnaturally, personality wise, I
will default to sort of like,flying under the radar, because
I just, I kind of like that,yeah, but it's nothing wrong
with our other people. It'sprobably for my own nervous
system.
Colette Fehr (39:41):
Well, I'm glad you're bringing up that point,
because playing big doesn't lookthe same for everybody like we
just recommended to ourcommunity the chat that we have
at our website, insights fromthe couch.org. Come join us,
because this is where we talkabout the podcast a little bit
after the episodes, and have youguys ask questions. And stuff,
but we recommended the bookfired up that just came out, and
(40:04):
it's another take on what's thatother one? I love Elizabeth
Gilbert's book. What is it like?
Big Magic. I loved that book. Iloved that book because she
really narrated a lot of the thechallenges that come up within
our minds. But playing big canlook so different for everyone.
I like to think of it as ifthere's something that you're
(40:27):
curious about or that feelspassionate, mission, driven,
purposeful to you, and you'renot doing it. Then ask yourself,
why? And go do it and drown outthe what ifs and the noise of
how people will see you, becauseit does get more comfortable,
yeah, as you do the thing. Yeah.
(40:48):
There was a time that puttingmyself on social media for a
video, I would have thought, andprobably some people do think
this, oh, look at her. She's sofull of herself. Every post is
like a picture of her, this andthat, like I have that I'm at my
age like that seems so and youknow what? I'm over it. This is
part of the way people dobusiness now. And if people want
(41:09):
to think that of me, so be it. Iknow my reasons. I know what I'm
doing and why, and it's part ofthe deal. And like, so be
Laura Bowman (41:16):
it. I love that.
Okay, I love the last one. I'msort of bombed its last because
this is one of the areas ofgrowth I've had, is having
expect or not havingexpectations for other people's
lives. Yep, like, this issomething I have like, really
let go in the last couple ofyears. It's really especially
like my kids have to do acertain thing, or date a certain
(41:38):
person, or go to a certain job,have a certain job, or my
husband has to grow at a certainrate,
Colette Fehr (41:46):
or handle his job a certain way, or talk to his
boss. Or, yeah,
Laura Bowman (41:50):
I am not up in people's lives anymore. And you
know what? I think this is thebest thing, because people need
this freedom to feel close toyou. I we should do a whole
other show about how criticalfamily systems or high
expectation family systems, likethey make people just leave like
you will not get like you willnot get closeness with these
(42:13):
people you say you care aboutbecause they feel so judged and
so controlled and so vicariouslylived through and by like,
letting by stepping back andgoing, I'm going to give
everybody in my family theirlife back. They are going to run
their own
Colette Fehr (42:27):
life. They are responsible. You are responsible
for your life. I think this ishuge. And this is one that I can
also say I have done, if not a180 let's say a 170 maybe I'm
like 90% of the way there, thatmath probably doesn't add up,
because having good math skillsis not on my midlife growth
(42:48):
list. I don't care leave someoneelse to that I used to be so
preoccupied with, Oh, but I cansee what they're doing, and they
need help, and if I could onlyget them to do this, and all of
it is a bunch of bullshit whereyou're managing other people to
avoid discomfort and to avoidtaking responsibility for your
(43:08):
own fucking life. So if you'regonna give no fucks about one
thing, it's about letting otherpeople choose their course, even
if you don't like it, even ifyou wish they'd do something
different, pour your energy intoyou and let everybody else do
them.
Laura Bowman (43:23):
And it's not selfish this. It's paradoxically
the thing that saves the wholedamn system. And I just can't
preach that enough from therooftops. And I think that we
control other people, or we getmucked up in the lives of our
children. I don't I think partlybecause we think it's what we're
supposed to do, and that that'sour value or our legacy. And
(43:44):
then another part is because wejust don't have any clue as to
what we want to do, and so itbecomes the default
Colette Fehr (43:50):
placement, yeah, and also anxiety. I mean, let's
face it, a lot of women havesome level of anxiety. A lot of
people have anxiety, and it canproduce a lot of anxiety to see
people doing things like yourkids or even your spouse, and
some of it is connected to imagethese people reflect on us, and
if we don't like what they'redoing, then what does it say
(44:13):
about us? So all of thesethings, these 10 Things to stop
giving a fuck about it midlife,are tied together, because once
you let go of caring so muchwhat other people think getting
your value in managing otherpeople, and you can really stop
trying to write the story forsomebody else's life, then
you're actually free to stepinto what you are responsible
(44:35):
for, which is creating your ownstory. Because we're all going
to be dead in about a hotsecond, yes, and that is the one
thing I think about all the timefrom that Top Five Regrets of
the Dying, that the number oneregret was, I wish I had lived
my life for me. I wish I haddone more of what I wanted to
do. It's not a binary choice tobe supportive and caring to
(44:58):
other people and to take.
Responsibility for life. Infact, you do both of those
things best organically. Whenyou focus on yourself, you put
your oxygen mask on first.
That's why that's a cliche.
Laura Bowman (45:11):
Yep, and guys, if like, what we're talking about
here is like hitting for you.
This is what we do in ourmidlife master class. And we
take these principles and wemove into our own action. So if
you need help around this, jumpon our wait list. Check it out.
It's on our website now.
Colette Fehr (45:29):
Insights from the couch.org, Laura, this was a
great episode, and it makes methink of like three more things
I want to do a whole podcastepisode on. So also, you guys
email us, let us know, or joinour chat. It's on our website as
well, and give us questions,ideas for upcoming episodes.
We'd love to hear from you, andwe hope you got today some
(45:52):
valuable insights from ourcouch. We'll see you next time.
Bye, guys. You.
All right, today we're going to be talking about
zero fucks, 10 Things to stopcaring about at midlife. This is
all about reclaiming your time,your energy, your sanity, and
I'm so excited to get into thiswith you guys, because Laura and
I had a lot of fun and somegreat discussions as we prepared
for this episode and realized wewere on the same page in many
(00:24):
ways, but what we don't careabout anymore, now that we're at
midlife, that we want to sharewith you, and as always, we
can't wait to hear your feedbacktoo. So join our chat at
insights from the couch.org,Laura, let's get right into it
with number
Laura Bowman (00:40):
one, let's go being nice instead of honest.
How does that one hit you? I
Colette Fehr (00:47):
mean, I think this is a lifelong thing, right? Good
girl conditioning. I call it inmy book and in life, good girl
itis like it's an infection thatwomen have for too long, been
valued for being kind and sweetand nurturing. And I'm not
saying there isn't room forthat, but often it comes at our
own expense, and it'ssuffocating.
Laura Bowman (01:10):
Yeah, I mean, I definitely have suffered with
this in my day for sure. Like, Ilove the Gone Girl passage on
cool girl, and cool girl is justlike, down for anything, and she
flattens herself out and sandsoff the edges to make herself so
palatable to whoever she'saround. And for somebody like
(01:31):
me, where I talk about I have,like, that reflexive sort of
agreeableness that I've talkedabout in other episodes, like
getting out of that reflexive,let me just be nice. Let me keep
it an emotional 72 degrees atall times. Has been a huge shift
over the years to getting a lotmore honest, a lot more in the
(01:53):
moment, and saying, like, how Ifeel now. I think honest can be
a little rough. I think somepeople think that it's a binary,
like, either I'm nice or I'mhonest, right? And and I think
some older people are just like,I'm just being honest, and they
can be end up being
Colette Fehr (02:08):
cruel, right?
Let's be clear that honest isn'tmean it's healthy, and honest
can be and should be deliveredwith tact and diplomacy. That's
also being a mature adult, butwe're talking about not not
being nice. I mean, I do like tothink that I am kind, which a
lot of people will differentiatefrom Nice. We're talking about
(02:29):
being nice when it's betrayingyourself, and that is the
pathway to resentment.
Swallowing your feelings andneeds is the fastest way to get
sick, medically and physicallysick, and also to be a miserable
human. So I think the beauty ofmidlife is that as women,
especially as our estrogen goesdown, and we're not as obsessed
(02:53):
or wired to caretake everyonearound us emotionally, that
finally we can say, You knowwhat, I actually don't want to
do that. You know what? I'm notavailable, or just the full stop
sentence, which is a fullparagraph, no, no, without
explanation. And this requiresthe ability to tolerate people
having their reactions, lettingthem have whatever they their
(03:16):
reaction is, whatever theirfeelings, and learning to sit
through the discomfort of notalways making people happy.
There's no way to do it exceptto go through and to get more
and more comfortable.
Laura Bowman (03:28):
That's it. That's it being that bad guy, saying
the true thing, that what otherpeople are not happy with you,
and you tolerating that andstill kind of going on your way
and doing what's right
Colette Fehr (03:38):
for you. Yeah. And before we move on. Classic low
level example, a bunch of womenwho are all like trying to be
agreeable, right? We don't eventhink about it. We do it
naturally. It's like, where doyou want to go to lunch?
Everyone's like, I don't care. Idon't care. I don't care. You
know what? Care? Say yourpreference. If someone hates
say, I'd love Thai food. Ifsomeone doesn't like Thai food,
(03:58):
let them say I hate Thai food.
Okay, fine. Then what do youwant to do? Right? Like, just
start to assert your actualopinion. You're not being
difficult. Society has fucked usover by making us think, having
an opinion and expressing itmakes us difficult or too much.
So let's get rid of that one atmidlife. Yeah,
Laura Bowman (04:18):
and that's a great point too. Like, just start on
those low level things and startbuilding you want to go on the
next
Colette Fehr (04:25):
one here. Sure, I love this one, measuring
yourself against other people.
We all know Comparison is thethief of joy. It's a waste of
time. And midlife is really aseason that is not about
competing with other people.
It's about realizing you runyour own race, you should be
growing, but you should becompeting with old you versus
(04:45):
you now and where you want to gowith future you. There's always
going to be someone if we have avictim mentality. First of all,
our brains are naturally wiredfor comparison, so it's not like
you're doing anything wrong, butwe. Have to recognize that and
override it by instead of seeingourselves as, oh, they're doing
(05:06):
better than me, or I'm not whereI'm supposed to be. I hear
clients say this all the time.
Instead, it's like, look how farI've come, and where do I want
to go?
Laura Bowman (05:15):
Yeah, yeah. And I just want to normalize like
comparison. I mean, they've donestudies on this, on like, like
apes, where it's like, if youare, like, at the low end of
your group, it's like, it'sphysically painful, like, it's
like, it like your life is atdate in danger, really, if
you're the low level of theherd. So it's like, very painful
(05:35):
to be in, like, a comparativesituation where you feel like
you're not doing well. It's ahorrible feeling,
Colette Fehr (05:42):
right? And that's why we naturally compare,
because the person who's doingthe best in a herd has the most
access is to resources and livesthe longest now that we're
hijacked, right? And that's whyit is a biologically wired
imperative. So again, it'snormal that we're all going to
be prone to some comparison andsocial media, as we've talked
(06:04):
about in other episodes, doesnot help, because we're
subjected to a ridiculously widelens of comparables, but we've
got to try to find a way todrown that out and keep our
focus on, am I doing better thanI was yesterday? What are my
small goals? What am I gettingright and like, how do I want to
grow? How do I want to look backin six months a year, five
(06:26):
years, and look at Wow, old mewas there, and look where I am
now. That's the comparison thatmatters.
Laura Bowman (06:33):
And like, just building a life of your own
values, it's so easy to get,like, sidetracked by what
everybody else is doing andbeginning to like, fill in the
blanks with like, this is whatother people care about. Maybe
this is what I should careabout. And really just saying,
No, this is kind of what I careabout. And the other stuff, I
need to sort of put someblinders on to
Colette Fehr (06:52):
right now that you should be doing what other
people are doing, because ifthey're doing it, it should be
important. You know what'simportant to you? Who are you?
What do you want? Exactly? Amen,Okay, you go for number three,
Laura Bowman (07:04):
okay, living up to a life you thought you'd have by
now.
Colette Fehr (07:10):
I mean, I don't know about you, but I see this a
ton in therapy.
Laura Bowman (07:14):
Yeah, I do too. I I see it a ton. I think that
it's easy to like, if anythinggoes wrong, to feel like you're
not on pace. This can happenwith kids and jobs and romantic
relationships, if you're notlike, hitting these
developmental milestones, likeit's just like, I've fucked the
(07:35):
whole thing up, and now it's notworth having.
Colette Fehr (07:39):
Yeah. And also, I think for a lot of people, when
something hard happens, you losea job, you go through a divorce,
maybe you see everyone aroundyou. Back to the comparison
piece, too, seems to have moreaffluence or more access, or an
easier job, or like I wastalking to somebody recently,
all their friends are retiring,and they're not in a position to
(07:59):
retire. So those comparativethings can can bring this to
life inside of you. But I thinksometimes we just look around
and go, This isn't what Ithought it was going to be. And
I think this is a malaise thatcan set in at midlife, because
in many ways, we've beenstriving until now, and there's
(08:19):
a feeling of, okay, now I'marriving right? This is the
culmination of all my hard work,and if you feel like you're not
where you envisioned, even, evenif it's not comparative to other
people, that can be painful tocome to terms with. I just think
the big thing is, if we staythere, then we can really slip
(08:41):
into victim mentality and missthe gratitude piece and all of
the promise and potential ofthis season.
Laura Bowman (08:49):
Yeah. I mean, I think that life sometimes is
like the game of Candy Land. Doyou remember Candyland, of
course, where you're like, rightabout to get to, like the Candy
Castle, and all of a sudden youend up in like, the Gumdrop
swamp, yeah? Like, what? Like, Iwas on pace for this, and now
I'm here. And I think a lot oflife is like that it is and,
(09:12):
like, normalizing that everybodyhas some version of this in
their life, and we have to beable to, like, cope our way
through this, yes,
Colette Fehr (09:23):
and what I see, I was just thinking it's also
Chutes and Ladders is the same,and realizing how those games
are the same, exact game whichis different motifs. This is
only occurring to me. Candy Landway better. Yeah, me too. Me
too, because I like candy betterthan playgrounds. But that is
what life is like, and again,we're seeing everybody else's
(09:43):
highlight reel so they seem likethey're only moving ahead on the
board. Yeah. Meanwhile, trustus, everyone is just as
miserable, if not more miserablethan you at least a good
percentage of the time.
Everyone's stressed, everyone'sscared. You know, everyone
struggles behind the scenes.
Means, but you're right that wehave to be able to cope with
(10:04):
what is, I think this is such ahugely important ability and
capacity to develop at midlife,because otherwise you just sort
of give up and and you do slipinto that paralysis of victim
mentality. Yeah. So I think thecoping comes from saying, like,
a little bit of humor, a littlebit of right, like, okay, so,
(10:27):
you know, my bank account has$40 in it. This is not what let
me just out myself at some timesright now, when I'm in this
entrepreneurial season, youknow, this isn't where I thought
I was gonna be exactly, but insome ways, I'm also in places
that are more exciting anddifferent, and there's always
(10:47):
the option to pivot, to grow.
It's never too late. One thingwe know for sure is that things
will always change. That's theonly thing that's guaranteed.
Laura Bowman (10:57):
Yeah, and it's so funny, I did this whole thing on
resilience with, like, thewomen. What was there was a
couple men in the group at theUniversity Club. And so
everybody there is, like,almost, like, 75 years or older,
and everybody was talking abouttheir resilience journey. And
these people were amazing. Andthey just, like, sharply, gave
me a new perspective. One woman,you know, her, like, had grown
(11:19):
up in like, two world wars, andso her family had gone through
these, these wars andkidnapping. I mean, just crazy
stories, and it makes you golike, Oh. So I think on top of
the coping with humor is alittle bit of perspective,
cultivating gratitude, beingable to be in the moment and
realize how many things areworking. I think we get such a
(11:41):
negative bias on what isn'tworking that you can just get
hyper fixated on that. But allof those things help pull you
out and help you cope with this.
Colette Fehr (11:52):
Yeah, I couldn't agree more. Okay, let's go on to
number four, what other peoplethink of you? You know, we all
say that. That's probably themost cliched one, I think this
is on a spectrum and acontinuum. And speaking for
myself, first of all, this isanother thing that's survivally
wired right? Doing well andthriving and living long means
(12:13):
you have to fit into the herd.
So that comes with some degreeof caring what people think
about you. So let's justnormalize that. Unless you're a
sociopath, you probably do care,and probably will continue to
care. It's certainly appropriateto care about your inner circle
and how you impact them andthose relationships. But beyond
that, I think midlife is anopportunity to shed a lot of the
(12:34):
obsessing of how you sounded or,you know, men don't go through
this as much Some do, some do,but women, we tend to be so
relational, so conscientious, soworried about, were we not nice?
Were we this? Did we look that?
Are we being too show offy aboutour success? Were we too
(12:56):
assertive? Did we not considerothers? Did we force our opinion
and great all the Gook. And thereality is a lot of people
aren't going to like us. Peopleare jerks. Most of how they
respond to you is about theirown capacity and their own inner
templates. And freedom from thisreally allows you to go after
(13:17):
the life you want to live,however big or small. Yeah,
yeah,
Laura Bowman (13:20):
that's true. I love what Martha Beck says about
how we all have what she callsthe our everybody, like
everybody thinks this orwhatever. And she says, If you
really dig down into youreverybody, it's like three to
five people that we live in ourimaginary audience of who is
watching us and what they thinkof us, to realize that, like
(13:41):
these, people are so much morefocused on themselves, and that
nobody is really watching yourlife with like a
Colette Fehr (13:48):
microscope, right?
I mean, the reality is, thoughpeople do have judgments, and it
can be painful to bump upagainst that, but I also think
that we can get stuck in that.
And your Martha Beck thing isamazing, because it's really, it
may even be smaller than threeto five. Could be like two
(14:10):
people, yeah, or for somepeople, it's one. You know, it's
that critical parent that isstill shaming them on the inside
that they're now projecting intowhoever else in society. So I
think, notice who those voicesare, and acknowledge that it is
painful. If you heard overheardsomeone saying something
(14:32):
negative about you, it wouldhurt, and you'd also survive,
because you're a mature, healthyadult, and like you said people
aren't paying as much. It's thespotlight effect, where we think
the spotlight is a psychologicalterm, as you well know Laura
about it feels like everybody'swatching, especially, you know,
(14:52):
I do all this social media,these videos, and I've gotten
some nasty little comments aboutmy physical appearance, and I.
Uh, other things, like my bigforehead, my boobs being
visible, that I'm like, Manhating that I'm, you know, for
excusing men. You name it.
Everybody. What is it thatexpression everybody has an
asshole and an opinion? Yeah, Ilove that. Yeah. So it's like,
(15:15):
okay, yeah. You know, it'stoughened me up a little. And if
I'm honest, it still hurts. Andat the same time it's also like,
okay, next
Laura Bowman (15:28):
it's a little bit of the cost of admission. I
think that people it is, I sortof expect that people have
negative things to say abouteverybody, but I also understand
that it comes from a placewithin self, yes, where like,
they're reacting to something ina person that's like being
pulled up for them? Yes, I havegotten, like, a perspective that
(15:48):
I think there is negativity outthere, and it's just something
we have to be able to movethrough
Colette Fehr (15:54):
exactly and hurt people. Hurt people mean. People
are angry and unhappy in theirown lives, some people have
something negative to say aboutanyone, and the truth is, if
you're thriving, there are goingto be those miserable souls that
can't handle it and want to tearyou down. So the more we develop
a little bit of a buffer and abetter relationship within
(16:17):
ourselves to validate that. Youknow, hey, this person, as they
say, about 80% of some howsomeone treats you, and
sometimes it could be more isabout them. Very little is about
you. I think reminding ourselvesof that can help us build the
muscle to let go of what otherpeople think of us. More and
more, I agree. All right, youhit number five,
Laura Bowman (16:40):
the number on the scale or the size on the tag. I
know some women who have notgotten past this. Oh, I think a
lot of people, yeah, we just didan episode on that. And I mean,
I, I don't know if I'm like,over this entirely, but I
definitely am not going to like,live my life based on on those
(17:01):
things anymore, like I and Iwill not be one of these women
like that. Will shove theirshoe, their foot, into a size
shoe that doesn't fit, or adress that doesn't fit, because,
damn it, there is size four,right? I know people like
Colette Fehr (17:12):
that. Yeah, I used to do that. I used to get very
upset if I wasn't a certainsize. I didn't want to buy the
bigger sizes, as someone whoseweights fluctuated. And I was
just writing about this on substack a little where I do my
little vim life newsletter thatyou know, one of the things
that's changed for me as I wasthinking about this episode, one
(17:33):
of the things that's changed isbeing willing to, like, be up
and about in a bathing suit.
Now, arguably, even though I'velost weight on these diet shots,
arguably, my body does not lookthe best. I mean, it's not the
worst it's ever looked, but it'sdefinitely really far from the
best. Things are sad, saggy anddroopy and so on and so forth.
(17:54):
All the things that happen, notfor everyone, but for a lot of
us. And I think back to earliertimes in life where I was in
objectively, really good shape,and I looked great in a bikini,
and I still felt all this shameand consternation. So I won't
pretend that it's all gone. WhatI wrote about in sub stack is
(18:14):
that I've been as a Gen X woman.
I'm too conditioned by themisogyny and the patriarchy and
the long term objectification ofwomen, to have shed this
completely, we'll see where I amby 70. But for now, what's
amazing to me is that I'm notgonna, like, cover myself up.
(18:37):
I'm gonna stand up. And if youlook at my body and you're some
dude and you're judging me. Iactually don't give a fuck.
Laura Bowman (18:45):
Yeah, I agree. I'm a Gen X woman too, in the J Crew
mag, like, magazine, what wasit? Catalog did a number on me,
like, I still my beautystandards are like, like, I
don't know. The J
Colette Fehr (18:58):
Crew catalog, the J Crew catalog. God, this woman
had no fucking figure,
Laura Bowman (19:03):
but I did, and I would look at that and I would
be like, Oh, my God, that's whatI should look like. And I gotta
pick three toys. Secret from the90s, really, like, I couldn't
even get into the idea that,like, having a butt was a good
thing. I've had younger clientstell me that having a butt is a
good thing. And I just can't get
Colette Fehr (19:19):
into but it's a certain kind of butt. It's not
like a wide, flat ass, yeah?
It's, it's like, bubbly, yeah,juicy bottom. I know, I know,
but it's just like, it neverclicks. I want to be in the J
Crew catalog, yeah, because KateMoss was our age, and you're a
little younger than I am, but itwas like looking starved and
being a wave, and you can neverbe too thin or too rich. I mean,
(19:42):
that was the mantra,
Laura Bowman (19:45):
yeah. And so I'm shedding it, but it's I'm gonna
function. And I care more aboutliving life than I care about
what my the size of, you know,my rear end, or my dress sizes.
But like, you know, I think thatwe're all this. Is a work in
progress.
Colette Fehr (20:01):
I agree, and I think we have to acknowledge
that it's really tough if youare somebody who's been
relatively effortlessly thinyour whole life according to a
societal standard, you may notnecessarily, but you may have
less struggle with this, like Ihave one friend like that who
was rail thin. Our nickname forher was bone in college. She
(20:22):
does not. There's no noise aboutthis, but that's about the only
friend I can think of, of 40 or50 people that I've been friends
with over the year that hasn'thad some of it. And I think what
we're suggesting is, let'saccept ourselves with a little
more grace. It's mainly, maybeit's not perfect. Maybe there's
(20:43):
still some inner critic or somestriving. But I notice now,
whatever size I am, I am, Inotice, like, oh, I look a
little chubby in a picture. It'snot flattering. You know,
sometimes I want to re shoot it.
Sometimes I'm like, It's fine.
It's good enough. You know, it'sjust a little more accepting.
And also, let's just say this isa number that's been done on all
(21:06):
of us, because guys go aroundwith their gut out, and for the
most part, they don't care, andnobody shames them for it. It's
so true, not on the level thatwe have been all right, okay,
you want to hit number six, yes,being the default caretaker. So
this is a big one. You know, theperson who holds it all together
(21:27):
carries all the emotional laborat home, at work, and the
relationships and so many womenhave been carrying this burden,
if not entirely on their own,carrying most of it throughout
most of their life. But thatdoesn't mean we should continue.
You know, now's the time tolearn how to ask for help and
accept it when it's imperfect,and to really delegate tasks to
(21:52):
other people and to say, no,
Laura Bowman (21:55):
yeah. I mean, I've certainly been the default
caretaker in raising my kids,and I would say, in the last
several years, like, my husbandhas really, like, stepped in to
do a lot of things, and becauseI've been working more, and it
just, I'm okay with that. I'mlike, there's just certain
things I can't be around to do,and I don't think I should be
(22:17):
around to do. And so just fadingout of that role a little bit is
really appropriate foreverybody. I like being a
caretaker, just to be clear,like I that's a natural part of
my personality. I kind of, Ikind of do default to that. But
I I've stepped out of it alittle bit to where I don't need
(22:37):
to be the person rushing in tohave, like, the deep
conversation. I can let my kidssort of figure things out on
their own. I can let a littlespace set up between me and a
problem with with my family. Ican let other people do the
dishes. Let other people movethe wash from the the, you know,
the washer to the dryer. Foryears, I was always the point
(22:58):
person on these things, and Ithink fade out, see what it's
like to sort of loosen the reinson this.
Colette Fehr (23:06):
Yeah, because a lot of times in therapy, and I
know you see this too, we talkabout this a lot that people get
very especially type a women,one of the strings that binds
you to this that's self imposed,is the idea that it has to be
done just right and Okay, well,they won't do it the way I want
(23:27):
it done, which is a controlmechanism, so then I have to do
it. And that just you've got torecognize that that's a trap
you're setting for yourself. AndI hope by the time you hit your
late 30s, your mid 40s, sometimein there, you let that go,
because that is an anxietymechanism at play that keeps you
on the hook for more than youshould be doing. We're not
(23:49):
saying don't be a caretaker.
It's wonderful to nurture yourfamily, your friends, your
partner, yourself. Being caringand giving to others is a
positive attribute, but itshouldn't come at the expense of
your essential self. And ifyou're the only one doing it,
you're not accepting help. Youhave outdated scripts you still
run that relying on help makesyou weak. You should have to do
(24:12):
it all. You're the only one whocan do it, just so I'm
challenging we're challengingyou to, like, hold that lightly
and look at those beliefs alittle. And like you said, just
see if you can sit with even alittle. Let someone unload the
dishwasher that's hard for you.
Yeah, and let them. Let them doit wrong. Let them do it wrong.
(24:32):
Let the forks be mixed with thespoons. It really doesn't
matter. And
Laura Bowman (24:37):
just noticing that, like if you are the point
person in a family system whodoes a lot of the caregiving. No
one's gonna let you out of thatrole. No one's gonna write a
hand written invitation and say,you know, Mom, I think you
should really take a step backand let other people
participate. They will keepheaping on responsibility. So
(24:57):
until you begin to pull yourselfout. Of the role, no one's going
to recognize you as like a yourown being.
Colette Fehr (25:05):
Yeah. And this is one thing that comes up in a lot
in couples systems, is women areso sick of carrying all the
household and domestic labor anddoing many cases, women are
working and they still feel likethey're doing because they are.
Studies have shown women arestill doing 70 75% of the tasks
at home. But I also think what Iencourage people to do as a
(25:27):
couples therapist, that someonewill say, Well, I don't want to
have to I disagree with that. Ithink you should ask, and you
should make it clear, hey, Ineed you to do this. And if you
want your partner to think aboutthose things more naturally.
That's great. But if it's notlikely to happen, then assert
yourself already and say, Youknow what would be helpful if
(25:49):
you do X, Y, Z, and I didn'thave to tell you how to do it,
figure it out. But then you haveto let it be flawed and
imperfect. There you go. Allright. You have all right.
Number
Laura Bowman (25:59):
seven. Seven looking ageless. It's
Unknown (26:04):
hard.
Laura Bowman (26:06):
No, I mean, I'm comfortable looking however I
look from age. I want to lookgood for my age. We did a whole
episode on this. I think we'vedone a few. I want to just look
like I'm pulled together for myage. I'm not willing to do crazy
things to look younger. Somewomen definitely are, but I know
in these next 10 to 1520 I mean,it's not getting better from
(26:27):
here. You know what? I mean,it's gonna be like, it's gonna
be kind of like a slow degrade,yeah, of youth. And so I think
making some sort of peace withthat,
Colette Fehr (26:39):
yeah, accepting and being able to allow some
version of aging. And I justwant to say, because everybody's
different, we talked about inour episode the midlife mirror,
we really drilled in on vanityand how vanity can get toxic and
hold us back and even lead tomental health issues. But I want
to say, you know, if you'resomeone who getting stuff done
(27:02):
to your face is super importantto you, and you don't want to
have wrinkles here, you want toget Botox, or you want to get
whatever that eye lift thing isthat I probably really need
already go for it, like upperbleph. Or is that? What is that?
Yeah, I don't know, but I know Iprobably want to get it
eventually. Even though I'mreally scared of doing
procedures. I don't want to be.
I don't want to turn this intosome like, moralistic like,
(27:25):
okay, because I'm comfortablewith getting old. You should be
too No, I what I want to say is,you do you, and maybe we don't
have to as women, look likeChristy Brinkley at 70, because
most of us aren't going to, evenif we subject ourselves, like,
(27:46):
I'll never look that good, evenif I was operated and on every
day, all day, like there's andnever ate food again. Like, it's
just not in the cards for me. Sogiving yourself a little bit of
grace and coming to terms withokay, what, what things really
make me feel good, and whatthings are like I am so
terrified of aging that I can'ttolerate when I look in the
(28:11):
mirror, anything that doesn'tlook like I'm 25
Laura Bowman (28:17):
Yeah, I have a lot of compassion for people that
are at that place, because Ithink it's really torturous. I
agree with you. I'm not here to,like, judge anybody for whatever
they do. I don't know if, like,you know, 10 years from now, I'm
talking about a facelift. Idon't know where I'll be with
it. I don't know what I'll getoccupied either. But I'm hoping
(28:39):
that I can move through thesestages like with you, with
grace. That's it, exactly theword, the word of life, Grace,
Colette Fehr (28:47):
yeah, and that it's okay to look good, but look
your age. Yeah. You know, Ithink that we're seeing people
go gray more again. I'm notsaying that's for everyone. I
know, I've cut back on my Botox.
I've cut my Botox in half, bothin the amount of Botox and the
frequency that's been to date.
(29:09):
The only thing I've done isBotox. My what social media
followers like to tell me is myenormous forehead,
Laura Bowman (29:17):
and it is big.
Really tell you that
Colette Fehr (29:19):
online I've had multiple comments. One guy the
other day goes, Wow, I even goin the comments. It's still,
it's the forehead, I know. Butyou know what? It shows me how
much I have grown. Because Ireally wasn't like that
bothered. I mean, I do have abig forehead. When I first saw
it was a little hurtful andshocked. It's shocking. And then
(29:41):
I was like, All right, whatever,come at me. You're probably some
nasty little like troll, grosstroll hiding in a bat cave
somewhere, like, Fuck off,right? It's
Laura Bowman (29:52):
never good, a good sign if you're trolling the
comments on somebody else,creating some my
Colette Fehr (29:57):
big forehead has surely been an asset in. Some
way. But anyway, I think it'sjust giving I'm at 52 going on
52 Any moment now, having toreally, I see a big shift, even
since I was your age, and likehaving gone through menopause,
like things start to change evenmore. And I think being able to
(30:23):
take some of it with a grain ofsalt and then decide, okay, what
things really make me feel good,make me feel confident, and
everybody's probably got adifferent place. But let's not,
let's like, shed the idea thatwomen are supposed to look 30
forever. Yeah, it's notrealistic. No, yeah. And again,
it's something other people areimposing on us.
Unknown (30:47):
Okay, am
Colette Fehr (30:49):
I hustling for approval? You take it away.
Laura Bowman (30:54):
I don't feel like I've ever hustled for approval.
So I don't know if I can relateto this one. I just don't I
don't really hustle forapproval. I mean, I'm trying to
think, if I do
Colette Fehr (31:05):
okay, well, I can say that I have hustled for
approval in some areas of mylife, and I know that a lot of
our clients do. This issomething that a lot of people
struggle with, like feeling thatyour validation, your worth,
your value, comes from theoutside, that people giving you
(31:29):
positive feedback, telling youyou're pretty telling you You
did a good job, reinforcing yourvalue without that, a lot of
people feel empty, and they feeldown on themselves. And I think
for me, where I used to hustlefor approval was in the
relational space, probably morethan anything. I think I was
(31:50):
well validated by my parents asa child, so that didn't, I
don't. I've never felt likeworthless or that I don't have
value or worth. But I think ifyou don't have people,
particularly when you're young,giving you those messages, both
implicitly and explicitly, thisbecomes the thing that can chase
(32:11):
you into adulthood. But I wouldstruggle to find it in my
romantic relationships where Iwould want to be I would need a
lot of feedback, that I lookgood, that I was still loved,
that I was giving enough, doingenough, keeping someone's
attention, looking hot enough,whatever these old ideas I had
(32:33):
about a woman having to likecontinue to captivate a man, and
my first marriage fed into Allof that. It was that kind of
relationship. So it was, I wasinsecurely attached, but I don't
feel that way now. I do feel alittle bit of the need to hustle
for approval when I'm delvinginto something totally new,
(32:57):
where I don't have a lot ofconfidence. I mean, I felt like
I really hustled for approvalfor my agent, my book agent, you
did my book editors, you know,it's something I've never done
before. So I didn't haveconfidence that I am a writer or
that it was good enough unlessthey told me so. And even that's
shifted now. But I think thereare different areas this can pop
(33:21):
up in life. I
Laura Bowman (33:22):
think that's right. I as you're talking, it's
it becomes really evident to methat I'm a little bit allergic
to this. And I think it's just,it's the same feeling, but an
opposite approach, whereas,like, if I feel the tension that
I'm hustling for approval, Itake myself out very quickly.
And I'm not saying that's a goodthing, because, like with the
(33:43):
book thing, you have to stay inthat tense place to get
somewhere sometimes where youdon't feel adequate, and you do
have to kind of work your waythrough it. And I have a
pattern. I'm just outing myself,of like, if I feel this in a
relationship, or in anythingwhere I feel driven into like, I
(34:04):
find myself searching forexternal validation, to feel
okay, I like, take my ball andmy bat and I go to another
playground.
Colette Fehr (34:13):
Yeah, yeah. So it's so in some senses, it can
also be a form of protectingyourself from, like I protect
myself rejection and mayberight, and that can also lead us
to avoid some things that areworthy struggles. Total thing
that has for you,
Laura Bowman (34:29):
but it probably has, well, capacities. I'm sure
it has, but that's another thatyou know, whether you're
whatever end of this you're on,you've got to be able to know
when to hold them and when tofold them, you know, right? See,
is it worth a game, worthplaying, or is it one that it's
just not worth it and you don'twant to be in that trap?
Colette Fehr (34:51):
Yeah, and what I'm just thinking, as you're saying
this, is that I think it's bewilling to hustle at times for
something you want. Yeah, butdon't make the whole thing about
approval. So I didn't write abook and put myself through all
that torture because I wanted tofeel worthy. I did it because I
wanted to share my message withthe world. Because it's always
(35:12):
been a goal for me to be anauthor since I was a little
girl. Those are the reasons Idid it. I found myself along the
way, feeling insecure and attimes, falling into being a
little more needy of externalvalidation than I normally am.
And so sometimes you just haveto kind of notice that that pops
up. But I think at this stage oflife, if you're still feeling an
(35:36):
emptiness or questioning yourworth or value, which a lot of
people are, and again, a lot ofthis is conditioned in childhood
without other people'svalidation, then that's
something to really work on,because we all deserve to feel
whole and worthy just by virtueof breathing,
Laura Bowman (35:54):
yes, and I think there's a lot of people that
have never gotten there, orthey've just been so used to
getting so much approval fromother people that they become
like approval addicted. And it'slike, tell me I'm good, tell me
I'm pretty tell me you love me.
Tell me you like my work. It'slike they just they don't know
how to sort of self soothe, andthey don't know how to self
validate. And that's what we'resaying in midlife, pull that
(36:16):
locus of control in and be ableto have a conversation where you
add some of that for yourself.
Colette Fehr (36:23):
Exactly. That's what I was going to say, like,
give this to yourself. Because Iused to say, even though the
love languages isn't a realthing, I used to always say, my
love language is words ofaffirmation. It's really not
anymore. It's not the way itused to be. I feel like I give
myself more validation and needthat less from others. Sometimes
it still feels good to havesomebody see you and recognize
(36:46):
you. Of course, we're human,but, you know, I think this,
this, there's a lot more spacehere than to feel addicted to
needing that feed to feel goodenough. That's what we're
talking about, okay, we got twomore, playing small to make
others comfortable. I love thisone, me too. I mean, I think
(37:09):
that just what we're doing, likeeven this podcast, is, I mean,
or the way you show up on socialmedia, you've done a lot of big
things. How is it? Are youplaying Are you? Do you care
about playing small to makeother people comfortable at this
point? No, no. I mean, I don'tthink I'm playing small on any
level, on any level. I don'tthink it would have ever shown
(37:29):
up for me as the narrative islike, oh, I need to play small.
I think there was, like, alittle bit of I think the thing
that maybe held me back in thepast was self consciousness. I
get easily embarrassed. I dofeel a lot of spotlight effect,
I think, also a sense ofimposter syndrome that we know
we're going to do an episode onthis. So stay tuned for that one
(37:51):
me too, a feeling like, who am Ito do that? You know, needing
8000 trainings and titles tofeel like I'm finally qualified.
And I think what's happened onthis because I am at a stage of
life where I'm trying to, Imean, I am playing big now, I
don't know what the outcome isyet, but I am not playing small
(38:13):
anymore in any area of life,even if it means being
uncomfortable, embarrassingmyself, failing, I'm still
putting it out there, and Ithink it's really, really
freeing. I just think the onlyway, if that's a struggle for
you personally, what I wouldshare is that the only way
through that is by exposure. Isby repeatedly doing it. We have
(38:35):
to get comfortable beinguncomfortable, or we're going to
keep playing small.
Laura Bowman (38:39):
Yeah, and I think a big piece of this is playing
small to make other peoplecomfortable. Like it's that idea
that if I reduce myself, somehowthat's a service to other
people, and it's so theopposite, like you doing
everything you're doing. Colettegives everybody a model for the
fact that, like, some of thatcan be done
Colette Fehr (39:00):
right by anyone,
Laura Bowman (39:02):
by anyone who wants to do it right. And I
think that the we need more ofthat in the world. So I don't
think you do anything foranybody playing small. I think
all of us women need examples ofpeople who went after things,
tried things. And so I'm I don'tdo that anymore either. About
like, how is so and so going tothink about this? Yes? Like, I
(39:25):
don't have that narrative now.
I'm somebody who, justnaturally, personality wise, I
will default to sort of like,flying under the radar, because
I just, I kind of like that,yeah, but it's nothing wrong
with our other people. It'sprobably for my own nervous
system.
Colette Fehr (39:41):
Well, I'm glad you're bringing up that point,
because playing big doesn't lookthe same for everybody like we
just recommended to ourcommunity the chat that we have
at our website, insights fromthe couch.org. Come join us,
because this is where we talkabout the podcast a little bit
after the episodes, and have youguys ask questions. And stuff,
but we recommended the bookfired up that just came out, and
(40:04):
it's another take on what's thatother one? I love Elizabeth
Gilbert's book. What is it like?
Big Magic. I loved that book. Iloved that book because she
really narrated a lot of the thechallenges that come up within
our minds. But playing big canlook so different for everyone.
I like to think of it as ifthere's something that you're
(40:27):
curious about or that feelspassionate, mission, driven,
purposeful to you, and you'renot doing it. Then ask yourself,
why? And go do it and drown outthe what ifs and the noise of
how people will see you, becauseit does get more comfortable,
yeah, as you do the thing. Yeah.
(40:48):
There was a time that puttingmyself on social media for a
video, I would have thought, andprobably some people do think
this, oh, look at her. She's sofull of herself. Every post is
like a picture of her, this andthat, like I have that I'm at my
age like that seems so and youknow what? I'm over it. This is
part of the way people dobusiness now. And if people want
(41:09):
to think that of me, so be it. Iknow my reasons. I know what I'm
doing and why, and it's part ofthe deal. And like, so be
Laura Bowman (41:16):
it. I love that.
Okay, I love the last one. I'msort of bombed its last because
this is one of the areas ofgrowth I've had, is having
expect or not havingexpectations for other people's
lives. Yep, like, this issomething I have like, really
let go in the last couple ofyears. It's really especially
like my kids have to do acertain thing, or date a certain
(41:38):
person, or go to a certain job,have a certain job, or my
husband has to grow at a certainrate,
Colette Fehr (41:46):
or handle his job a certain way, or talk to his
boss. Or, yeah,
Laura Bowman (41:50):
I am not up in people's lives anymore. And you
know what? I think this is thebest thing, because people need
this freedom to feel close toyou. I we should do a whole
other show about how criticalfamily systems or high
expectation family systems, likethey make people just leave like
you will not get like you willnot get closeness with these
(42:13):
people you say you care aboutbecause they feel so judged and
so controlled and so vicariouslylived through and by like,
letting by stepping back andgoing, I'm going to give
everybody in my family theirlife back. They are going to run
their own
Colette Fehr (42:27):
life. They are responsible. You are responsible
for your life. I think this ishuge. And this is one that I can
also say I have done, if not a180 let's say a 170 maybe I'm
like 90% of the way there, thatmath probably doesn't add up,
because having good math skillsis not on my midlife growth
(42:48):
list. I don't care leave someoneelse to that I used to be so
preoccupied with, Oh, but I cansee what they're doing, and they
need help, and if I could onlyget them to do this, and all of
it is a bunch of bullshit whereyou're managing other people to
avoid discomfort and to avoidtaking responsibility for your
(43:08):
own fucking life. So if you'regonna give no fucks about one
thing, it's about letting otherpeople choose their course, even
if you don't like it, even ifyou wish they'd do something
different, pour your energy intoyou and let everybody else do
them.
Laura Bowman (43:23):
And it's not selfish this. It's paradoxically
the thing that saves the wholedamn system. And I just can't
preach that enough from therooftops. And I think that we
control other people, or we getmucked up in the lives of our
children. I don't I think partlybecause we think it's what we're
supposed to do, and that that'sour value or our legacy. And
(43:44):
then another part is because wejust don't have any clue as to
what we want to do, and so itbecomes the default
Colette Fehr (43:50):
placement, yeah, and also anxiety. I mean, let's
face it, a lot of women havesome level of anxiety. A lot of
people have anxiety, and it canproduce a lot of anxiety to see
people doing things like yourkids or even your spouse, and
some of it is connected to imagethese people reflect on us, and
if we don't like what they'redoing, then what does it say
(44:13):
about us? So all of thesethings, these 10 Things to stop
giving a fuck about it midlife,are tied together, because once
you let go of caring so muchwhat other people think getting
your value in managing otherpeople, and you can really stop
trying to write the story forsomebody else's life, then
you're actually free to stepinto what you are responsible
(44:35):
for, which is creating your ownstory. Because we're all going
to be dead in about a hotsecond, yes, and that is the one
thing I think about all the timefrom that Top Five Regrets of
the Dying, that the number oneregret was, I wish I had lived
my life for me. I wish I haddone more of what I wanted to
do. It's not a binary choice tobe supportive and caring to
(44:58):
other people and to take.
Responsibility for life. Infact, you do both of those
things best organically. Whenyou focus on yourself, you put
your oxygen mask on first.
That's why that's a cliche.
Laura Bowman (45:11):
Yep, and guys, if like, what we're talking about
here is like hitting for you.
This is what we do in ourmidlife master class. And we
take these principles and wemove into our own action. So if
you need help around this, jumpon our wait list. Check it out.
It's on our website now.
Colette Fehr (45:29):
Insights from the couch.org, Laura, this was a
great episode, and it makes methink of like three more things
I want to do a whole podcastepisode on. So also, you guys
email us, let us know, or joinour chat. It's on our website as
well, and give us questions,ideas for upcoming episodes.
We'd love to hear from you, andwe hope you got today some
(45:52):
valuable insights from ourcouch. We'll see you next time.
Bye, guys. You.
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