We’re thrilled to bring you this heartfelt and hilarious conversation with Dave Tarnowski—author, creative force behind the Instagram phenomenon Disappointing Affirmations, and the man redefining self-help with a dose of sharp wit and raw honesty. With over 2.5 million followers, Dave’s take on mental health, neurodivergence, grief, and healing resonates deeply—and this episode is no exception.
Together, we explore Dave’s late-in-life diagnoses of bipolar disorder and ADHD, his journey through therapy, sobriety, and grief, and how humor became his lifeline. We dive into the making of his newest book, Sorry in Advance for Making Things Weird, and talk about what it means to “do the work”—even when it sucks. If you’ve ever felt like you’re falling apart while still managing to laugh, this episode will make you feel seen, heard, and a little more okay with not being okay.
Episode Highlights:
[1:19] – Dave shares the origin story of Disappointing Affirmations and how his mental health journey shaped his work.
[3:04] – Getting diagnosed with bipolar disorder and ADHD later in life.
[5:03] – The neurodivergent mind: creativity, sensitivity, and deep knowing.
[7:43] – Using humor to bring healing to heavy emotions.
[9:52] – Why negative thoughts deserve affirmation too.
[13:04] – Medication trials, missteps, and finally finding a fit.
[15:31] – From unfinished novels to viral memes: how the Instagram page was born.
[21:26] – The power of dark humor, cynicism, and embracing absurdity.
[23:00] – Creating a safe space for all—why Dave stays out of divisive commentary.
[26:17] – Generational therapy gaps and shifting the mental health narrative.
[29:19] – What it means to actually do the work in therapy.
[33:38] – Sibling trauma, family hierarchy, and navigating long-standing dynamics.
[38:35] – Grief, loss, and finally facing what we try to avoid.
[42:22] – What's inside the new book—and why it goes deeper than the first.
[46:13] – Where to find Dave’s books, cards, and more.
[48:13] – The importance of men accessing therapy and emotional healing.
Links and Resources:
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/disappointingaffirmations
Dave Tarnowski’s book Disappointing Affirmations
Dave Tarnowski’s book Sorry in advance for making things weird
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Colette Fehr (00:03):
Marc, welcome to insights from the couch, where
real conversations meet real
Laura Bowman (00:07):
life. At midlife, we're Colette and Laura, two
therapists and best friends,walking through the journey
right alongside you, whetheryou're feeling stuck, restless
or just unsure of what's next.
This is a space for honestconversations, messy truths and
meaningful change.
Colette Fehr (00:26):
And our midlife master class is now open. If
you're looking to level up, getinto action and make midlife the
best season yet. Go to insightsfrom the couch.org and join our
wait list. Now let's dive in.
All right, you guys, we are soexcited today I feel like I have
to hold up this book as I sayhello to Dave turnowski, the
renowned author of disappointingaffirmations and just out now,
(00:51):
sorry in advance for makingthings weird, which is also a
collection of even moredisappointing affirmations and
some fan favorites. And ofcourse, he's a huge Instagram
sensation, 2.5 millionfollowers. Your stuff is so
popular because it resonateswith the human experience. So we
(01:13):
are thrilled to have you heretoday, and can't wait to dig in.
Dave Tarnowski (01:19):
I so appreciate being invited. Thank you so
much. Colette and Laura.
Colette Fehr (01:23):
Appreciate. This is going to be so great. So one
of the things I loved when inaddition to how funny you are
and how spot on everything, isyou write a very vulnerable
intro in your book about yourown experience with mental
health, and you know that you'rekind of your mantras, it's okay
(01:43):
to not be okay, which I think isso important. Can you start out
just by telling us a little bitabout your story and your
journey?
Dave Tarnowski (01:51):
Oh, man, it's, it's been, it's been quite the
journey. And it just, itcontinues. You know, it's never
ending. Thing I just actually,today I'm two months sober, so
congratulations. Thank you huge.
And this, it's a big part ofthis journey, because I had, you
know, I deal with bipolardisorder and ADHD, so those are
(02:14):
my two crosses to bear, and withthat, you know, I also have
tendency to drink, and so sure,I just had to get that out of my
life. But no, it's, it's been,my mental health journey has
(02:35):
been quite interesting, youknow, so something that I always
knew that there was somethingthere, you know, I just couldn't
put my finger on it. When Ifinally got diagnosed as
bipolar. This was late in life.
This was I was 42 Wow, yeah.
Colette Fehr (02:59):
This was not when you were young, not when you
were in early 20s, or,
Dave Tarnowski (03:04):
no, we're talking five years ago. And,
wow, yeah, I mean literallyduring the pandemic, I was just
like, oh, okay, great. You knowit's it's good to know that
Laura Bowman (03:17):
piece of information I might have wanted
earlier.
Dave Tarnowski (03:19):
But you know it was good to know, like, when I
got the diagnosis, I justremember reading up on it and
just being like, yeah, yeah,yeah, okay. I could totally see
those things. And then what Ifound interesting, and this is
part of what I talk about in thesecond book, The Internet
(03:40):
basically diagnosed me withADHD. So I would make different
posts. I can't think of oneoffhand right now, but and
someone would comment like, ADHDvibes. And so I spoke to my
therapist, and I was like, youknow, I know I've got this one
thing, but is it possible tohave, you know, several things,
(04:01):
of course. So I took the testand scored off the charts. And
so, like, yeah, okay, so, so nowit's like, which is, which it's
and that's one, one of thehardest things to tell with the
the journey of, you know, andneuro divergence, and those are
the people who I really speak tothe most. I think with this, I
(04:23):
kind of have found my tribe, andthen a long time ago, you know,
I love my neuro divergence, youknow, I I think a lot of what I
write speaks to that totally.
Laura Bowman (04:34):
I mean, I'm somebody who works a lot with
neuro divergent groups and justthe OCD, ADHD, ASD, bipolar. I
mean, there's all those thingsdance together, but the other
piece of of individuals likethat is they often come with,
like wildly creative and likesensitive souls and
(04:57):
intelligence. Yeah. Yeah, so hasthat been your own experience,
too?
Dave Tarnowski (05:04):
Um, in a way, you know, it's like, it's, it's
hard for me to speak of myselfon those terms for like, you
know, it's like, regardless ofhow good I might feel about what
it is that I do, I'm just like,I'm always just sort of like,
bashful about it, like, I'mhappy that it's resonated with
so many people the way that ithas. I always walk a fine line
(05:25):
with these things, though,because it's like you could go
from, you know, satire, becausethe way I the way I look at what
I do with the with thedisappointing affirmation, is
it's kind of like positiveaffirmations will just tell you
something to just make you feel,whatever, like everything's
gonna be okay, right? I alwayslike to add that second part,
(05:48):
you know, that second layer thatsmack in the face of, like,
Yeah, but it's really gonna suckalso, and, and so you kind of
look at it, and it reframes it,I think, in a different way. And
I think so much about how wethink about ourselves, you know,
(06:10):
reframing can help in so manydifferent ways. You know, like
you, it's I, I hate using termsof like you're a piece of shit,
you know? I I use that for acomical effect more than
anything, you know. I mean,there are pieces of shit out
there, but, you know, but youknow, if they say you're being a
(06:32):
piece of shit, mainly, I'mcalling myself out on that too,
because all of these are like,however I'm feeling at the time.
It gives the reader or gives theviewer something to sort of SNAP
themselves out of whatever theymight be in. You know? If, if
you are wanting to give up, andsomeone tells you, Well, then
(06:53):
just give up, you'd be like,Well, no, I'm not gonna do that,
you know, right? So it's yeah.
It's reverse psychology in a lotof ways. It's yeah, yeah.
Laura Bowman (07:06):
You know, my Colette, like, introduced me to
your book, and I opened it up,and I read the first, the first
few of them, and I just, I just,like, laughed on, like, a deep,
sort of guttural level, like, ofthat knowing. And it it
paradoxically just made space,like it made space for me to be
like, I feel so like, that'sexactly what like part of my
(07:30):
brain was gonna say next. Andit's that sort of absurdity
that, like lets you intoyourself on a in a deeper way.
So I think it's just a geniuslittle bit.
Colette Fehr (07:43):
Yeah, it's the truth with the humor that I
think is so healing andrestorative. I mean, I just want
to give an example for anyonewho hasn't seen your stuff yet,
yeah, like, here's one stop, andif you can, we can see it,
because this is a lot of peoplewatch, right? Stop. So I'll read
it, and then I'll show it. Stopoverthinking you are the only
(08:06):
one who cares. I mean, it's sotrue, right? And then I love
just be yourself, but not yourreal self. No one wants to see
that shit.
Unknown (08:18):
Yes, you know
Colette Fehr (08:19):
it's and the whole book is filled with, Okay,
here's one more. I could readthe whole book on the podcast.
It's not imposter syndrome. Youreally do suck at everything,
right? And it's just like, youknow, I think I love that you
say in both the intro of thisand I saw it also in the intro
(08:41):
for the new book that likenegative thoughts, negative
feelings need affirmation too.
This is part of the humanexperience, and I think this is
what a lot of people get wrong,because we laugh about no one
wants to see that shit or stopmaking people uncomfortable with
your painful emotions. But whatwe notice as therapists, when
Laura and I get together, we sitin a restaurant, we cry, we talk
(09:04):
about all our painful shit,right? We're so comfortable in
the messy feelings, but mostpeople aren't. People want to
avoid all of that, and whenyou're suffering and struggling,
you get a lot of messages fromsociety. You even mentioned, you
know, telling people who aredepressed, oh, just go exercise
like it's just so tone deaf. Notthat exercise isn't good, but
(09:28):
it's so tone deaf for where thatperson is. And we're so averse
and afraid of painful feelings,but we've really got to embrace
it and when we can be honestabout it, but also laugh about
how absurd and hard andsometimes filled with suffering
life is, it's actually veryhealing.
Dave Tarnowski (09:52):
Thank you. Yeah, it's, it's, it's about meeting
people where they are, not wherethey want to be, not where
everybody tells you that. Youshould be, you know, I always,
you know, and I will totallycredit my ex for putting this
into my vocabulary. But I, youknow, she made me very anti
(10:13):
should, you know, she's like,take that should word right out,
you know, shoulding all overyourself. Yes, exactly, exactly.
And so, you know, I jokingly,you know, I, I, I referred to
the disappointing affirmationset as a lot of things. But one
of the things is, I take my 10years of therapy and I pass the
(10:36):
savings on to you, like, I like,whatever nuggets that I can get,
you know, out of that. And Imean, I, I love therapy. I mean,
I, I would not be talking to youright now, were it not for the
many therapists I've had overthe past 10 years. You know, of
(10:58):
just being vulnerable because Iwas always a sensitive kid. I
remember it was when I wasgrowing up. It was a derogatory
term, Oh, you're so sensitive,you know, and just be like, oh,
you know, something wrong withme there. There's something
wrong with me, you know, I'm badfor being sensitive. It took me
(11:18):
many, many years of, you know,really like doing the work, and,
you know, understanding thatit's like, yeah, I'm glad I am
that person. I'm glad that if Ididn't have that sensitivity, I
don't think I would have gonedown the path towards self
awareness and, you know, selfacceptance. And I mean, I still
(11:43):
can't accept a lot of thingsabout myself, but, you know,
I've certainly come a long wayas far as being like, you know
what it's like those thosemoments when I'm going out of my
head, because I sort of feellike, Oh my God, I need to do
something. I have to remindmyself in those moments, give
yourself some grace. You know,it's like you don't need to do
(12:05):
everything at the same time. Youknow, when you give yourself a
break, it'll be there when youget back to it.
Colette Fehr (12:13):
I'm so glad you said, No, not at all. I think
actually, that's something ourlisteners and all of us really
need to hear over and overagain. So much of it is a
process of just remindingourselves, you know, it's okay,
it's okay not to get it alldone. You're doing a good job.
You know, like giving ourselvesgrace, self compassion, those
(12:34):
things are so healing. It's someof the simple daily practices
that we all need to implementmore, right? So what I'm curious
to Dave, like when you said youall these years you maybe you
knew there was something withthe bipolar disorder symptoms,
and then, of course, you hadADHD and that hadn't been
(12:55):
diagnosed. So how did you copewith those things before you
even knew that those diagnoseswere there.
Dave Tarnowski (13:04):
I was getting Xanax from friends, and it was
like, I can remember clearly myfirst Xanax. And it was just
like, it immediately fixedsomething for a moment. Yeah,
you know, and yeah, it was justsort of like, okay, so let me go
(13:27):
to my doctor and, you know, talkto my doctor about it. But my
doctor, my I went to my primaryat the time she and this was
2019, she said, Well, I can'tdiagnose, but I can prescribe.
So what do you want?
Laura Bowman (13:47):
Oh, no, that was not the right answer, not
Dave Tarnowski (13:50):
the right answer. But I was like, Well,
I've heard of Prozac, so maybewe can start on that. And I was
on that for a year, and it wasjust terrible. It was just not,
not what I needed. And it wasmany, many trial and error
years. I don't think I got to myfinal round of treatment, where
(14:12):
I am now, where I feelcomfortable, you know, with this
treatment, just just over thelast couple of years. So it was,
it was a good three year trialand error thing that's that's
another thing to speak to, justas far as the audience goes, if
you're going through medicationafter medication and it's just
not working for you, don't stop,you know, like, certainly stop
(14:36):
medications that you know aren'tworking, But there's so many you
just have to find that rightcombination that works for you.
Colette Fehr (14:46):
It's so true, and it can be a long journey. In
fact, it is for most people tofigure out the right combination
that works for your brain andyour wiring, and you also went
through a divorce during themidst of all this.
Dave Tarnowski (15:00):
Yeah, yeah, it was my, my second divorce.
Actually, I don't feel so badabout it, too. People thought I
was worth, you know, marryingSo, yeah, I prefer to look at it
like that, yeah. See, so I'm notthat much of a piece of shit,
(15:20):
but
Laura Bowman (15:21):
you know that much so tell me, like, how you got
started with like, this, thisInstagram page. Like, what was
the first thing you started todo with these affirmations?
Dave Tarnowski (15:31):
It was a long road to this. From when I was 14
years old, I was going to be anovelist, and that's all I was
ever going to be. And I startedwriting my first novel, and I
kept writing that first novel, Ikept writing my first novel, and
that 10 unfinished novels later,and my 30s, and I'm just like,
(16:00):
What the hell am I doing? Andthis was 2014 memes were just
starting to really be a thingin, you know, pop culture. And I
thought, let me try my hand atthem. I was getting really tired
of doing things that were very,uh, niche, like they were, you
(16:25):
know, they were really popularamongst a very select group of
people, you know, and I waslooking towards, you know, maybe
getting into something thatcould become something larger,
like I had something in the backof my mind, and I wasn't sure
what it was. All I knew was Iwas tired of what I had been
(16:48):
doing. So I'm up in New York,and I decided to go upstate New
York, which is very, verybeautiful love, and the, I don't
know if you've ever heard of theHudson Valley up there, yeah,
Westchester. Okay, great,excellent. So there was this,
(17:10):
it's like, it's sort of ameditation treat retreat. It's
kind of like just a veryspiritual kind of place. And so
I went there for a week, and itwas wonderful. I took my phone,
I put it in the drawer of theroom, and I only looked at it to
check what time it was. Irefused to go on. I took books
(17:34):
with me. I just sat, I read, Imeditated. It's on this nice
little campus, and there's aclubhouse, and there's a
bookstore, and I spent hours aday in that bookstore just
enjoying the place and browsing.
And one thing that must haveseeped into me was the
affirmations, because there werea lot of like positive
(17:55):
affirmation stuff in thatbookstore. And so after that
vacation, something justclicked, you know, and I just
sort of found this thing andwhat really made it happen. So
all of the memes that I had madebefore this, I was using other
people's work, so it's like, youknow, regular meme is just
(18:18):
somebody else's photo, and thenyou put your words on top of it.
I wanted to make this completelymy own. My ex and I went on
seven vacations, eight vacationsduring our time together, and I
took photos on all of them. Andso I was just like, I have the
scenic backgrounds for thesethings, and so I started using
(18:40):
them, and that just becamedisappointing. Affirmations from
there just, and it was crazy,because I remember the page, and
I was just, I was just tryingsomething out. It started in
July of 2022 can't believe it'sbeen three years now. I think in
August of 2022 I had, like, myfirst big viral hit, and the
(19:02):
page just sort of startedexploding, and it was like
nothing I had ever experienced.
And and then suddenly I have abook deal. And it was just like,
just insane,
Colette Fehr (19:19):
absolutely, yeah, you have all kinds of not only
do you have that, but you have agame, you have postcards,
Dave Tarnowski (19:25):
stickers, so much stuff, so much my my
publisher, and that's that'spart of why I went with them, so
when it was so funny. So if Icould just go back and just tell
you, like, a little bit aboutthe story, because I'm just sort
of like, it's been a while sinceI talked about this. So I
started the page in July, hadthat first big thing in August,
(19:49):
and then I got this message fromsomeone at a small like an
independent publisher inEngland, and they were offer.
Ring book deal, right? And itwas for nothing, you know. And I
remember looking at this andbeing like, whatever, I don't
(20:10):
know, but it was a start. Andthere was a friend that had at
the time that I reached out to,and I was just like, Do you know
any literary agents? And she'slike, I'll introduce you to
mine. And so, like, literally,October 1 I signed with my
agent, so it was just like,bing, bing, bing. And then we
(20:30):
had an option for the book andChronicle Books who I ended up
going with. What I really lovedabout them was, and, you know,
I'm sure you've noticed fromfrom their stuff, it's good
quality. I mean, like, theyreally put their all into a
pretty
Colette Fehr (20:48):
product. Yeah, it's, it's, it's really nicely
done, yeah, yeah.
Dave Tarnowski (20:54):
And that's one, one of the things that I love
about this is Book Two comes in,yeah, it's over here. It's a
heftier book. It's nice. It's,yeah, I will, I will save that
for later. I'm jumping ahead.
Colette Fehr (21:10):
That's okay, no, and I'm glad you're showing the
book, because ours are on ourcopies are on their way. Oh,
still haven't got them. Okay,yeah, yeah. But we have the
digital, we have the digital,yeah, but I'll be putting your
new book on my coffee table too.
Yeah?
Laura Bowman (21:26):
I want it right, actually, on my nightstand,
because I need that sort of,like, boost. I mean, your work
reminds me of, I remember whenmy kids were little.
Dave Tarnowski (21:36):
Did you ever guys watch SpongeBob? I did not
know. I don't want to make the
Laura Bowman (21:40):
reference if you don't know, but like, SpongeBob
it's a very like adult tonecomedy. SpongeBob is your toxic
positivity character, so happyeverything's gonna be great. And
then Squidward is like thecynical everything sucks, but
(22:01):
it's so funny. Like, I mean,it's so funny. And I remember,
like, parents of kids my agewere like, we don't let our kids
watch SpongeBob because it's socynical. And I'm like, I don't
even want to know people likeyou, like I I just like, if,
like, that absurd piece of lifeis the thing that is that that
(22:23):
humor is the thing that, likehelps you to keep going. I think
that's why I want it on mynightstand.
Dave Tarnowski (22:31):
I appreciate that. Yeah, I think we need a
bit of cynicism in our lives. Imean, especially, you know, in
this day and age, you know, theway things have been going have
been weird. I'm trying not topay attention much, you know,
it's, you know, so you just
Colette Fehr (22:51):
kind of have to block some of it out, because
there's, it's so it can be sooverwhelming and so depressing
and scary even, yeah, you know,
Dave Tarnowski (23:00):
yeah, that's, that's why one of the things I
always skirt the issue, becauseit's like, it's something that I
know some people want me to talkabout. But one of the things
that I look at my page as is,it's a safe haven for people who
need it. And I don't want tostart saying, you know, oh, I'm,
(23:22):
you know, just for one or theother, you know, it's like, I
kind of want it to be, yeah,because we all need a safe
space, you know, regardless ofwhat we're going through. I
mean, maybe now more than ever,you know. And, yeah, one of the
things that frustrates me themost is getting through to the
(23:45):
older generation. Yeah, becausemy generation is probably one of
the first generations wheretherapy was okay, you know, it's
it's stud, it's suddenly likethe stigma was less, you know,
and more and more people, andplus, it was just healthcare
(24:09):
started taking it moreseriously. And so it kind of
reached this, this critical massover what, maybe the last decade
or two, you know, where really,I think
Colette Fehr (24:20):
there's a big shift, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Dave Tarnowski (24:23):
but like my parents, oh, my God, I would
love for them to go talk topeople. It would be so amazing
if they would. But that's justnot
Colette Fehr (24:36):
when I decided to become a therapist after my
divorce, 20 years ago, my wholefamily was like, why would you
do that? Go be a lawyer. That'swhat you because the world needs
another one of those, right?
Well, I mean, my mom's anattorney, and I think they
thought some of my skill setswould be good for that job, that
I would make more money or andof course, I had no interest in
(24:58):
being a lawyer. Whatsoever. Nooffense to lawyers, just it
isn't for me, but their theirfaces, their look like, why
would you want to be in mentalhealth, you know? And I just
grew up in one of those people.
Dave Tarnowski (25:12):
Yeah, it's not even a thought, right, right?
Colette Fehr (25:16):
And I think there was a thought that I grew up
with. Like I said, I grew up inWestchester County, and I'm
going to be 52 here. Actually,when this episode drops, I will
be 52 Happy birthday. Thank you.
Thank you. October 3, so andvery proud of it. But when I was
young, I didn't know anybody whowent to therapy. Nobody in my
(25:37):
family went to therapy. Ithought of therapy as something
you did if you were like crazy.
That was my initial thought. SoI do think those older
generations, it's very much grinand bear it, you know, just
muscle your way through, shoveyour feelings down, keep on
(25:58):
trucking. And fortunately, nowwe're realizing that we do need
to talk about things. We do needeach other. People need help.
That's okay. It's normal. It'sactually a very positive thing,
and that's one of the changes inthe world I'm so grateful for.
Dave Tarnowski (26:17):
Yeah, me too.
It's like, as long as there areenough people who have a
willingness to show up, youknow, to, I don't want to say,
preach the gospel of therapy,but, you know, it's just it did
so much for me, you know. And Imean, I how I really look, look
at it, and I think I touchedupon this and the intro to the
(26:41):
first book, it's funny. It'slike dealing with with the new
one now. It's like the old oneis so foreign to me at this
point. But, yeah, but what onething that I always look at, you
know, therapy as is, it's justexcavation, right? And so each
time you you have a meeting, youtill the ground. You, you know,
(27:05):
you till that soil a little bit.
And then, oh, look, I found thisthing, or, you know, and
suddenly you're crying. And youdon't know why you're crying,
but it was just that thing thatwas just like holding this it
was holding this space in youthat suddenly released, you
know, and you don't know what todo with that emotion. And I
(27:28):
mean, it's those moments thatmake therapy for me, you know,
it's, it's like to go back tothe older generation, like my
mother loves to do paint bynumber stuff, right? Like, that
is the way that she relaxes,right? Because she's, God bless
her. She's in her mid 70s, butshe'll say things like, that's
(27:49):
my therapy. And I'm like, yeah,yeah,
Laura Bowman (27:53):
it's not the same.
It's beautifully put though,like, I love that. You really
appreciate the process oftherapy, because I think so many
people that if they don't dowell with therapy, it's because
they're looking for like areally tangible outcome, and
they just don't ever get in,they don't ever really settle
into the process. And it is aprocess,
Dave Tarnowski (28:16):
I think, for me, what it really was, and my first
couple of therapists willprobably definitely, definitely
attest to it not probably, is Iwas very much a blah kind of
patient. I came in and I justunloaded whatever was going on
in my head during that day, orwhatever I was going through,
(28:40):
and then sort through the shit,you know, like one of them she
she was like, literally, everyday you come in here and you
just, like, you fill up this bagof things, and then you just
leave, you know, and I'm here,like, holding this bag of shit.
She didn't say that, but, youknow, it took me a while to go
(29:03):
from that kind of patient to,you know, now I'm getting into
the groove. And, you know, notthat there are levels. You know,
you don't get, like, black beltpatient. You know, that that
would be really cool, though,if, if that were something, you
know,
Laura Bowman (29:19):
I think there are levels, though, yeah. I mean, I
do think that Well, yeah, whenpeople have enough experience
with therapy, they knowthemselves well enough they can
tolerate like, different levelsof things. Even as a Therap
therapist, when I train like,there's certain modalities that
are harder for me to access, youknow, and like, I have to build
(29:39):
almost like I have to buildcapacity to get into those
modalities. And I just, I thinkthat everybody has to build that
pro, you know, that capacitywithin
Colette Fehr (29:50):
what I notice is people come in, and some people,
you know, depending on whatyou're accustomed to, how you've
grown up, where your own comfortlevel is with introspect. And
your own inner life and your ownemotions, some people come in
and they really are at thesurface. They want to be here.
They just haven't gone deeper.
So they don't they're notresistant. They just not there
(30:11):
yet. And, you know, we're alwayshoping to try to go deeper,
because that's where, andgetting into the body and
getting a little moreexperiential, because that's
where so much change andtransformation, and, as you
beautifully say, excavation,where you find those little
nuggets that are sotransformative. I think it's a
perfect metaphor. And otherpeople, you know, I mostly work
(30:33):
with couples, so sometimes I'llget couples that come in and I
can tell that they've both donetherapy, you know, they're
already ready to work at a levelof inner work, because they've
been excavating, and they'vebeen doing that some other
people, you know, they want tocome in and just talk about the
surface level of the argument,and that's they haven't gone
(30:56):
deeper yet. So it is, I thinkthere are levels. We're just not
giving people designation.
Dave Tarnowski (31:05):
Yeah, yeah, no, totally like i You made me think
of one moment, and this wasfairly early on. So, so my, my
ex, she, she was the one whoconvinced me to go to therapy,
because she had been going totherapy for over a decade, I
(31:25):
think, before we met and andthen she and I did couples
therapy together. It was just somuch therapy, so I learned a
lot. But, you know, at one pointI was in the couple's therapy,
and they kept talking aboutdoing the work, doing the work,
and I just yelled out. I waslike, what is the work? Because
(31:48):
before and that story, are wetalking about? But that's the
weird thing about doing the workis you don't know what the work
is until you're doing the work.
It's like, you know the firstrule about fight club is you do
not talk about, you do not talkabout the work. The work finds
you. And there is a moment whereall of a sudden it's just like,
(32:10):
oh, shit, we're doing the work.
Oh, that's why I'm like this,you know. And then bing, bing,
bing, bing, you know, and andthen I think there's, there's,
there are, like you were sayingthat you're there are levels,
Laura, when you get to a certainlevel where you're okay with
(32:30):
yourself, and then you can startto really work on, yeah, how you
are in relationship to others,particularly to others Who
trigger you, you know people whoyou grew up with, people you
know your parents, yourgrandparents, your siblings. You
know I've got two brothers.
They're older than I am. I'vegot a lot of trauma from those
years. And so you know, evennow, as you know, they're in
(32:56):
their early 50s, I'm in my late40s, that dynamic still lives in
a way, you know, it doesn'tmatter how old you get, there's
still gonna be that sort offriction, that sort of, you
know, hierarchy.
Laura Bowman (33:15):
That's so funny that you say that Dave, I've
been recently doing a lot oflike brother work in therapy,
like with grown men that havebrothers like their their idea
of who they are as men is verydefined by like who they were in
relationship to their brothers.
So I find that sibling work sointeresting that, just as an
aside, but
Dave Tarnowski (33:38):
it's, it's a strange thing. It's a strange
thing, you know, because we getalong, you know, there, there
are moments. I mean, we're,we're very different people,
where it's at the point nowwhere the age just doesn't
really matter. But yet, you'vegot, like, those buttons that
people push, but then you've gotthe people who installed them in
(34:01):
the first place, right? And so,how the do you deal with that
now, you know? How do yousomehow subvert that and get
around that, you know? And sothere are levels, different
levels, you know. And it's, it'salmost like how they have a
defensive driving course, youshould almost have a defensive
(34:23):
therapy course. And how, you
Colette Fehr (34:26):
know, for dealing with your family of origin?
Yeah, totally.
Dave Tarnowski (34:30):
You know, you throw up a jump scare and you're
like, how are you going to reactto this go?
Colette Fehr (34:37):
Because it's really true with family stuff,
whether it's siblings, parents,you know, I'll think, Oh, I've
evolved beyond that, or thatwon't bother me anymore. And you
go home and you're right back.
It's the same argument. I'm 16years old. My mom's annoying me
in the same way, you know, it'sjust, it's so it changes. And
we. Grow, but those dynamics areso entrenched, and they can come
(35:02):
right back up for you, even whenyou think you've transformed
beyond
Dave Tarnowski (35:08):
Yeah, yeah, it's like, that's why. So there's
this book out called let them orthe
Unknown (35:16):
Yeah,
Dave Tarnowski (35:18):
yeah, and I'm just like, easier said than
done. Mel, like, it's great intheory, but sometimes it's more
like, Fuck them, you know, I
Colette Fehr (35:32):
think that should be your next book, Dave. You
know,
Laura Bowman (35:35):
it's so funny that you said that, Dave, because,
like, I heard her on aninterview, and she said that the
let them is almost for theperson to get to the fuck them.
She said it's almost like a it'slike it gives you that little
boost of like, self righteousenergy, of like, let them, let
them, not invite me, but it's tosort of fire you up. Yeah, take
(36:00):
care. I've heard her say thatabout your book, but I agree.
It's so much easier said thandone. Yeah?
Dave Tarnowski (36:05):
It's like, I mean, I'm not gonna say her book
is antithetical to mine. We'redefinitely, we're in a Venn
diagram somewhere, yeah, yeah.
Like, I did a little projectwith Gretchen Rubin not too long
ago. So talk about, you know,somebody who, like, we couldn't
be more polar opposite,happiness, happiness. But it's,
(36:28):
it's, it's fun getting to knowpeople in different areas, you
know, and seeing how you know.
You know, we're all trying to,we're all just trying to help.
To help in different ways. Ithink, right,
Colette Fehr (36:45):
right? Yeah. And I think a lot of people pull from
what's worked for them. I knowone of the challenges I see in
therapy about the positivefocus, it's a fine line. Of
course, it's important. Youknow, there's a lot about
positive psychology that Ireally appreciate, and I
actually think I'm a prettyoptimistic person, but I'm also
(37:08):
the first to be like, Oh my God,everything is shit, and, like,
kind of self deprecatingly laughat it. And that's part of what
enables me to be positive. And Ithink it's there's a difference
when there's a wall up to I haveto be positive. I have to be
positive because if anythingnegative gets in, I'm going to
kind of fall apart. It's goingto consume me. And I see that a
(37:30):
lot as a therapist, that somepeople have lived their whole
life that way because of traumaor difficult people in their
lives when they were younger,they had to build those kind of
defense mechanisms. You had aclient say to me the other day,
a male client, well, the minutemy wife starts getting upset, I
just want to get away and focuson something positive. And I
(37:52):
thought that was the kind of theposter child statement for what
I hear from a lot of inparticular, men and couples
therapy, that that's a longstanding coping mechanism, and
certainly nobody you nor us astherapists, is saying, Let's
just all swim and like miserableshit forever and let it drown
(38:12):
us. But that feelings aredesigned to be their energy.
They we have to allow it to movethrough our body and then find
ways to cope and redirectwithout blocking and stuffing
and repressing, because that'swhat makes us sick and what
makes our mental healthconditions worsen.
Dave Tarnowski (38:35):
Yeah, and there's, there's one thing I
think the most important emotionthat there is to deal with is
grief, you know, and it'ssomething that, yeah, we all go
through in our lives, and youknow, for many different ways,
(38:56):
you grieve someone who passed arelationship that you know that
is now over. And I think that'sthat's something that a lot of
people don't have. I don't wantto say they don't have the armor
for it. They don't know thatthey need to armor up for it.
It's a roller coaster. Anyonewho's been through it, it'll
(39:19):
come it'll be here on Monday,and then it'll disappear and
it'll show up out of the blue onFriday. And, you know, that's,
that's one thing that I also,you know, focus on, and a lot of
my work. And I think I feel likeI'm a survivor of it. You know,
(39:39):
I went through a lot of I forgotif I mentioned so I gave up
booze two months ago, and thatwas after a very, very long
period of just a lot of bingedrinking, you know. And I really
wasn't happy with my life. Iwasn't happy with myself. There
(40:01):
were a lot of feelings from overthe years that I had been
postponing, as opposed todealing with in the moment, you
know. And a lot of that wouldturn out to be, you know, these
moments of I would listen to thewrong song, and suddenly I'd be
at a puddle of tears. You know,it's it's been a hard several
(40:26):
years. I've had several lossesin my life, including, might
sound small or silly orwhatever, but my my dog passed,
and she had been around for twomarriages. She had been there,
you know, like, I mean, shedied. She was 19 years old. She
(40:48):
lived a nice, long life, wow.
But being without her, it's justsort of like this. You don't
replace something like that, youknow, you don't replace, yeah,
so, so
Colette Fehr (41:10):
significant relationship that was with you
through your whole kind of adultlife.
Dave Tarnowski (41:17):
Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so anyone out there
listening who's been through,uh, pet passing, you're not
Laura Bowman (41:26):
people come undone. I've seen people come
undone from this.
Colette Fehr (41:31):
I'm still not over it, and spent three years for me
with my dog, and I still couldcry about it. Yeah, thank you.
Thank you. You know it's just, Ithink it's a relationship. It's
a primary attachment figure.
It's not just a dog. Our dogslove us unconditionally, and I
think a relationship with a dogis one of the best relationships
that's out there. So but youknow, I'm glad you're talking
(41:56):
about grief, because I thinkit's we can't avoid it, but it's
understandable that at times wewant to avoid it because it's so
painful while you're on thatroller coaster. It's just it can
subsume you at times, how heavyit is.
Laura Bowman (42:14):
So, so is the book like a like, a nod towards the
grief? Like, is this like, oh,you working that out in the new
book.
Dave Tarnowski (42:22):
No What, what the new book is and how it
differs from from the firstbook, which was just a
collection of of theaffirmations. I had tried with
the first book to string themtogether to make a sort of
story. But with Book Two, it'sin sections. There's 104
(42:45):
affirmations and the new book,some of them are from the page.
A lot of them are new. And it'ssplit up amongst eight chapters.
So there's daily motivation,mental health, love and
relationships, which is myfavorite, because I think the
entire chapter is new, or, likemost of it is new like never
(43:09):
before seen, because that stuffthat I don't usually like write
on the main page about is loveand relationships. But so then
after that, it's other people,work, success, self improvement,
(43:29):
and then grief and regret. Andso it's these different
sections. And each section, Istart off with the short essays.
And the essay is basically, itopens that section. I love that.
And so it's, it's, I'm a lothappier with this book. I was
(43:51):
able to actually write a bookthis time, yeah, like that, that
first time around, it was sortof like, you know, it was an
overnight success. I mean, I,you know, I can't call it
anything other than what it was.
And so that that first book grewup with the page, you know, it's
like, right? It was three monthsin between when I started the
(44:15):
page, and when, you know, whenthe contract was signed, you
know, so all of a sudden it wasjust like, Okay, gotta throw
this together within the nextfew months. But the second book,
I was able to really be more ofmyself, to show more of myself
in it, you know, and not justhave these pithy sayings you
(44:37):
know, that you can flip throughand be like, you know? It's
like, there's more contextthere, you know? So it's like
taking that initial essay that Iwrote for the first book, which
was like I had pushed for morewriting in that first book,
yeah, but I couldn't quite getit in, so I wanted to get as
much as I. Could into that firstessay. But now, you know, I was
(45:01):
able to split my my attentionamongst eight different, you
know, areas of living. You know,it
Colette Fehr (45:11):
sounds like there's going to be so much in
this that people really get alot out of and I think that's, I
think so. Other point of allthis is that it's entertaining.
It makes us laugh, right? Whypeople love your page every
time? I'm not even kidding,since I got your book a couple
months ago and put it on mycoffee table in the waiting
(45:34):
room, every time I open my door,someone's leaping through it and
they're laughing. They'resmiling. They're like, Oh my
god, I love this. So I thinkthere's that piece that helps
people. But I also think whenyou share about these difficult
topics and you're vulnerableabout your own experiences, it's
so connecting, so powerful.
You're going to help so manypeople. So the book just came
(45:56):
out yesterday, as of thisepisode. So tell all our
listeners, in case they haven'talready found you or gotten the
book, how they can find you onInstagram website where your
book is all that good stuff.
Dave Tarnowski (46:13):
So you could find me on Instagram at
disappointing affirmations. Youcould also go to disappointing
affirmations.com and that willlead you to a portal where you
can order, I think, all nine ofmy current items for for sale,
Colette Fehr (46:31):
because I've been on there. Yeah,
Dave Tarnowski (46:33):
it's we've there quite a lot of stuff, but yeah,
and I'm very excited, so I wasable to show off the book here.
But also, at the same time, thethese affirmation cards are
coming out, and these are,they're really, really
(46:54):
beautiful, little like Tarotesque kind of you, you, you, you
pick your card for the day, andthat's your that's how you know,
how your days.
Colette Fehr (47:07):
And that's a great gift to give people. That's a
great gift
Dave Tarnowski (47:12):
to that too. You know, it's, it's, it's so
giftable. Everybody can think ofat least one person in their
life that would like this sortof stuff.
Colette Fehr (47:21):
So and we're gonna have all the links to order your
book, to your website, yourInstagram handle will also be in
our show notes. And I can't waitto get my hard copy of your
book, and
Dave Tarnowski (47:35):
I'm sad it was it I wasn't able to get you, but
we did set this up pretty quick.
So yes,
Colette Fehr (47:41):
yes, and it's in transit. It's in transit. So all
good. And I think us meetingwith you before will make
reading it that much richer. SoI'm excited.
Laura Bowman (47:50):
And I think that your work, your work is like,
you know, we talk about like,these levels in therapy, you
know, maybe people pick up yourbook who aren't ready to go to
therapy, but you're letting theminto themselves on a level,
right?
Colette Fehr (48:05):
Like you're establishing one level, and
you're modeling something formen, yeah, for
Laura Bowman (48:11):
sure, for sure,
Dave Tarnowski (48:13):
and that that is huge. You know, it's like, worth
it, because, you know, if wecould go, we could talk about
generations, like we didearlier, but getting men to
therapy, that is, that is atough thing, and it was tough
getting me there,
Colette Fehr (48:32):
but like you said, it was so powerful for you. And
when men do come to therapy,they get so much out of it. So
let that be our parting messageto everyone. Men, come to
therapy,
Dave Tarnowski (48:46):
go to therapy, do it. Do the work, and
eventually, one day you willunderstand what that means, even
especially if it sucks.
Colette Fehr (48:55):
Well, thank you for being here, Dave. We're so
excited. And this, our listenersare going to get so much from
this. Everyone loves your book,and I know they're going to love
your second book too. Justagain, it's sorry in advance for
making things weird. Greattitle. So everyone go grab a
copy, and thank you all forlistening. We will see you next
(49:19):
time on insights from the couch,
Dave Tarnowski (49:21):
bye guys, thank you so much. You.
Marc, welcome to insights from the couch, where
real conversations meet real
Laura Bowman (00:07):
life. At midlife, we're Colette and Laura, two
therapists and best friends,walking through the journey
right alongside you, whetheryou're feeling stuck, restless
or just unsure of what's next.
This is a space for honestconversations, messy truths and
meaningful change.
Colette Fehr (00:26):
And our midlife master class is now open. If
you're looking to level up, getinto action and make midlife the
best season yet. Go to insightsfrom the couch.org and join our
wait list. Now let's dive in.
All right, you guys, we are soexcited today I feel like I have
to hold up this book as I sayhello to Dave turnowski, the
renowned author of disappointingaffirmations and just out now,
(00:51):
sorry in advance for makingthings weird, which is also a
collection of even moredisappointing affirmations and
some fan favorites. And ofcourse, he's a huge Instagram
sensation, 2.5 millionfollowers. Your stuff is so
popular because it resonateswith the human experience. So we
(01:13):
are thrilled to have you heretoday, and can't wait to dig in.
Dave Tarnowski (01:19):
I so appreciate being invited. Thank you so
much. Colette and Laura.
Colette Fehr (01:23):
Appreciate. This is going to be so great. So one
of the things I loved when inaddition to how funny you are
and how spot on everything, isyou write a very vulnerable
intro in your book about yourown experience with mental
health, and you know that you'rekind of your mantras, it's okay
(01:43):
to not be okay, which I think isso important. Can you start out
just by telling us a little bitabout your story and your
journey?
Dave Tarnowski (01:51):
Oh, man, it's, it's been, it's been quite the
journey. And it just, itcontinues. You know, it's never
ending. Thing I just actually,today I'm two months sober, so
congratulations. Thank you huge.
And this, it's a big part ofthis journey, because I had, you
know, I deal with bipolardisorder and ADHD, so those are
(02:14):
my two crosses to bear, and withthat, you know, I also have
tendency to drink, and so sure,I just had to get that out of my
life. But no, it's, it's been,my mental health journey has
(02:35):
been quite interesting, youknow, so something that I always
knew that there was somethingthere, you know, I just couldn't
put my finger on it. When Ifinally got diagnosed as
bipolar. This was late in life.
This was I was 42 Wow, yeah.
Colette Fehr (02:59):
This was not when you were young, not when you
were in early 20s, or,
Dave Tarnowski (03:04):
no, we're talking five years ago. And,
wow, yeah, I mean literallyduring the pandemic, I was just
like, oh, okay, great. You knowit's it's good to know that
Laura Bowman (03:17):
piece of information I might have wanted
earlier.
Dave Tarnowski (03:19):
But you know it was good to know, like, when I
got the diagnosis, I justremember reading up on it and
just being like, yeah, yeah,yeah, okay. I could totally see
those things. And then what Ifound interesting, and this is
part of what I talk about in thesecond book, The Internet
(03:40):
basically diagnosed me withADHD. So I would make different
posts. I can't think of oneoffhand right now, but and
someone would comment like, ADHDvibes. And so I spoke to my
therapist, and I was like, youknow, I know I've got this one
thing, but is it possible tohave, you know, several things,
(04:01):
of course. So I took the testand scored off the charts. And
so, like, yeah, okay, so, so nowit's like, which is, which it's
and that's one, one of thehardest things to tell with the
the journey of, you know, andneuro divergence, and those are
the people who I really speak tothe most. I think with this, I
(04:23):
kind of have found my tribe, andthen a long time ago, you know,
I love my neuro divergence, youknow, I I think a lot of what I
write speaks to that totally.
Laura Bowman (04:34):
I mean, I'm somebody who works a lot with
neuro divergent groups and justthe OCD, ADHD, ASD, bipolar. I
mean, there's all those thingsdance together, but the other
piece of of individuals likethat is they often come with,
like wildly creative and likesensitive souls and
(04:57):
intelligence. Yeah. Yeah, so hasthat been your own experience,
too?
Dave Tarnowski (05:04):
Um, in a way, you know, it's like, it's, it's
hard for me to speak of myselfon those terms for like, you
know, it's like, regardless ofhow good I might feel about what
it is that I do, I'm just like,I'm always just sort of like,
bashful about it, like, I'mhappy that it's resonated with
so many people the way that ithas. I always walk a fine line
(05:25):
with these things, though,because it's like you could go
from, you know, satire, becausethe way I the way I look at what
I do with the with thedisappointing affirmation, is
it's kind of like positiveaffirmations will just tell you
something to just make you feel,whatever, like everything's
gonna be okay, right? I alwayslike to add that second part,
(05:48):
you know, that second layer thatsmack in the face of, like,
Yeah, but it's really gonna suckalso, and, and so you kind of
look at it, and it reframes it,I think, in a different way. And
I think so much about how wethink about ourselves, you know,
(06:10):
reframing can help in so manydifferent ways. You know, like
you, it's I, I hate using termsof like you're a piece of shit,
you know? I I use that for acomical effect more than
anything, you know. I mean,there are pieces of shit out
there, but, you know, but youknow, if they say you're being a
(06:32):
piece of shit, mainly, I'mcalling myself out on that too,
because all of these are like,however I'm feeling at the time.
It gives the reader or gives theviewer something to sort of SNAP
themselves out of whatever theymight be in. You know? If, if
you are wanting to give up, andsomeone tells you, Well, then
(06:53):
just give up, you'd be like,Well, no, I'm not gonna do that,
you know, right? So it's yeah.
It's reverse psychology in a lotof ways. It's yeah, yeah.
Laura Bowman (07:06):
You know, my Colette, like, introduced me to
your book, and I opened it up,and I read the first, the first
few of them, and I just, I just,like, laughed on, like, a deep,
sort of guttural level, like, ofthat knowing. And it it
paradoxically just made space,like it made space for me to be
like, I feel so like, that'sexactly what like part of my
(07:30):
brain was gonna say next. Andit's that sort of absurdity
that, like lets you intoyourself on a in a deeper way.
So I think it's just a geniuslittle bit.
Colette Fehr (07:43):
Yeah, it's the truth with the humor that I
think is so healing andrestorative. I mean, I just want
to give an example for anyonewho hasn't seen your stuff yet,
yeah, like, here's one stop, andif you can, we can see it,
because this is a lot of peoplewatch, right? Stop. So I'll read
it, and then I'll show it. Stopoverthinking you are the only
(08:06):
one who cares. I mean, it's sotrue, right? And then I love
just be yourself, but not yourreal self. No one wants to see
that shit.
Unknown (08:18):
Yes, you know
Colette Fehr (08:19):
it's and the whole book is filled with, Okay,
here's one more. I could readthe whole book on the podcast.
It's not imposter syndrome. Youreally do suck at everything,
right? And it's just like, youknow, I think I love that you
say in both the intro of thisand I saw it also in the intro
(08:41):
for the new book that likenegative thoughts, negative
feelings need affirmation too.
This is part of the humanexperience, and I think this is
what a lot of people get wrong,because we laugh about no one
wants to see that shit or stopmaking people uncomfortable with
your painful emotions. But whatwe notice as therapists, when
Laura and I get together, we sitin a restaurant, we cry, we talk
(09:04):
about all our painful shit,right? We're so comfortable in
the messy feelings, but mostpeople aren't. People want to
avoid all of that, and whenyou're suffering and struggling,
you get a lot of messages fromsociety. You even mentioned, you
know, telling people who aredepressed, oh, just go exercise
like it's just so tone deaf. Notthat exercise isn't good, but
(09:28):
it's so tone deaf for where thatperson is. And we're so averse
and afraid of painful feelings,but we've really got to embrace
it and when we can be honestabout it, but also laugh about
how absurd and hard andsometimes filled with suffering
life is, it's actually veryhealing.
Dave Tarnowski (09:52):
Thank you. Yeah, it's, it's, it's about meeting
people where they are, not wherethey want to be, not where
everybody tells you that. Youshould be, you know, I always,
you know, and I will totallycredit my ex for putting this
into my vocabulary. But I, youknow, she made me very anti
(10:13):
should, you know, she's like,take that should word right out,
you know, shoulding all overyourself. Yes, exactly, exactly.
And so, you know, I jokingly,you know, I, I, I referred to
the disappointing affirmationset as a lot of things. But one
of the things is, I take my 10years of therapy and I pass the
(10:36):
savings on to you, like, I like,whatever nuggets that I can get,
you know, out of that. And Imean, I, I love therapy. I mean,
I, I would not be talking to youright now, were it not for the
many therapists I've had overthe past 10 years. You know, of
(10:58):
just being vulnerable because Iwas always a sensitive kid. I
remember it was when I wasgrowing up. It was a derogatory
term, Oh, you're so sensitive,you know, and just be like, oh,
you know, something wrong withme there. There's something
wrong with me, you know, I'm badfor being sensitive. It took me
(11:18):
many, many years of, you know,really like doing the work, and,
you know, understanding thatit's like, yeah, I'm glad I am
that person. I'm glad that if Ididn't have that sensitivity, I
don't think I would have gonedown the path towards self
awareness and, you know, selfacceptance. And I mean, I still
(11:43):
can't accept a lot of thingsabout myself, but, you know,
I've certainly come a long wayas far as being like, you know
what it's like those thosemoments when I'm going out of my
head, because I sort of feellike, Oh my God, I need to do
something. I have to remindmyself in those moments, give
yourself some grace. You know,it's like you don't need to do
(12:05):
everything at the same time. Youknow, when you give yourself a
break, it'll be there when youget back to it.
Colette Fehr (12:13):
I'm so glad you said, No, not at all. I think
actually, that's something ourlisteners and all of us really
need to hear over and overagain. So much of it is a
process of just remindingourselves, you know, it's okay,
it's okay not to get it alldone. You're doing a good job.
You know, like giving ourselvesgrace, self compassion, those
(12:34):
things are so healing. It's someof the simple daily practices
that we all need to implementmore, right? So what I'm curious
to Dave, like when you said youall these years you maybe you
knew there was something withthe bipolar disorder symptoms,
and then, of course, you hadADHD and that hadn't been
(12:55):
diagnosed. So how did you copewith those things before you
even knew that those diagnoseswere there.
Dave Tarnowski (13:04):
I was getting Xanax from friends, and it was
like, I can remember clearly myfirst Xanax. And it was just
like, it immediately fixedsomething for a moment. Yeah,
you know, and yeah, it was justsort of like, okay, so let me go
(13:27):
to my doctor and, you know, talkto my doctor about it. But my
doctor, my I went to my primaryat the time she and this was
2019, she said, Well, I can'tdiagnose, but I can prescribe.
So what do you want?
Laura Bowman (13:47):
Oh, no, that was not the right answer, not
Dave Tarnowski (13:50):
the right answer. But I was like, Well,
I've heard of Prozac, so maybewe can start on that. And I was
on that for a year, and it wasjust terrible. It was just not,
not what I needed. And it wasmany, many trial and error
years. I don't think I got to myfinal round of treatment, where
(14:12):
I am now, where I feelcomfortable, you know, with this
treatment, just just over thelast couple of years. So it was,
it was a good three year trialand error thing that's that's
another thing to speak to, justas far as the audience goes, if
you're going through medicationafter medication and it's just
not working for you, don't stop,you know, like, certainly stop
(14:36):
medications that you know aren'tworking, But there's so many you
just have to find that rightcombination that works for you.
Colette Fehr (14:46):
It's so true, and it can be a long journey. In
fact, it is for most people tofigure out the right combination
that works for your brain andyour wiring, and you also went
through a divorce during themidst of all this.
Dave Tarnowski (15:00):
Yeah, yeah, it was my, my second divorce.
Actually, I don't feel so badabout it, too. People thought I
was worth, you know, marryingSo, yeah, I prefer to look at it
like that, yeah. See, so I'm notthat much of a piece of shit,
(15:20):
but
Laura Bowman (15:21):
you know that much so tell me, like, how you got
started with like, this, thisInstagram page. Like, what was
the first thing you started todo with these affirmations?
Dave Tarnowski (15:31):
It was a long road to this. From when I was 14
years old, I was going to be anovelist, and that's all I was
ever going to be. And I startedwriting my first novel, and I
kept writing that first novel, Ikept writing my first novel, and
that 10 unfinished novels later,and my 30s, and I'm just like,
(16:00):
What the hell am I doing? Andthis was 2014 memes were just
starting to really be a thingin, you know, pop culture. And I
thought, let me try my hand atthem. I was getting really tired
of doing things that were very,uh, niche, like they were, you
(16:25):
know, they were really popularamongst a very select group of
people, you know, and I waslooking towards, you know, maybe
getting into something thatcould become something larger,
like I had something in the backof my mind, and I wasn't sure
what it was. All I knew was Iwas tired of what I had been
(16:48):
doing. So I'm up in New York,and I decided to go upstate New
York, which is very, verybeautiful love, and the, I don't
know if you've ever heard of theHudson Valley up there, yeah,
Westchester. Okay, great,excellent. So there was this,
(17:10):
it's like, it's sort of ameditation treat retreat. It's
kind of like just a veryspiritual kind of place. And so
I went there for a week, and itwas wonderful. I took my phone,
I put it in the drawer of theroom, and I only looked at it to
check what time it was. Irefused to go on. I took books
(17:34):
with me. I just sat, I read, Imeditated. It's on this nice
little campus, and there's aclubhouse, and there's a
bookstore, and I spent hours aday in that bookstore just
enjoying the place and browsing.
And one thing that must haveseeped into me was the
affirmations, because there werea lot of like positive
(17:55):
affirmation stuff in thatbookstore. And so after that
vacation, something justclicked, you know, and I just
sort of found this thing andwhat really made it happen. So
all of the memes that I had madebefore this, I was using other
people's work, so it's like, youknow, regular meme is just
(18:18):
somebody else's photo, and thenyou put your words on top of it.
I wanted to make this completelymy own. My ex and I went on
seven vacations, eight vacationsduring our time together, and I
took photos on all of them. Andso I was just like, I have the
scenic backgrounds for thesethings, and so I started using
(18:40):
them, and that just becamedisappointing. Affirmations from
there just, and it was crazy,because I remember the page, and
I was just, I was just tryingsomething out. It started in
July of 2022 can't believe it'sbeen three years now. I think in
August of 2022 I had, like, myfirst big viral hit, and the
(19:02):
page just sort of startedexploding, and it was like
nothing I had ever experienced.
And and then suddenly I have abook deal. And it was just like,
just insane,
Colette Fehr (19:19):
absolutely, yeah, you have all kinds of not only
do you have that, but you have agame, you have postcards,
Dave Tarnowski (19:25):
stickers, so much stuff, so much my my
publisher, and that's that'spart of why I went with them, so
when it was so funny. So if Icould just go back and just tell
you, like, a little bit aboutthe story, because I'm just sort
of like, it's been a while sinceI talked about this. So I
started the page in July, hadthat first big thing in August,
(19:49):
and then I got this message fromsomeone at a small like an
independent publisher inEngland, and they were offer.
Ring book deal, right? And itwas for nothing, you know. And I
remember looking at this andbeing like, whatever, I don't
(20:10):
know, but it was a start. Andthere was a friend that had at
the time that I reached out to,and I was just like, Do you know
any literary agents? And she'slike, I'll introduce you to
mine. And so, like, literally,October 1 I signed with my
agent, so it was just like,bing, bing, bing. And then we
(20:30):
had an option for the book andChronicle Books who I ended up
going with. What I really lovedabout them was, and, you know,
I'm sure you've noticed fromfrom their stuff, it's good
quality. I mean, like, theyreally put their all into a
pretty
Colette Fehr (20:48):
product. Yeah, it's, it's, it's really nicely
done, yeah, yeah.
Dave Tarnowski (20:54):
And that's one, one of the things that I love
about this is Book Two comes in,yeah, it's over here. It's a
heftier book. It's nice. It's,yeah, I will, I will save that
for later. I'm jumping ahead.
Colette Fehr (21:10):
That's okay, no, and I'm glad you're showing the
book, because ours are on ourcopies are on their way. Oh,
still haven't got them. Okay,yeah, yeah. But we have the
digital, we have the digital,yeah, but I'll be putting your
new book on my coffee table too.
Yeah?
Laura Bowman (21:26):
I want it right, actually, on my nightstand,
because I need that sort of,like, boost. I mean, your work
reminds me of, I remember whenmy kids were little.
Dave Tarnowski (21:36):
Did you ever guys watch SpongeBob? I did not
know. I don't want to make the
Laura Bowman (21:40):
reference if you don't know, but like, SpongeBob
it's a very like adult tonecomedy. SpongeBob is your toxic
positivity character, so happyeverything's gonna be great. And
then Squidward is like thecynical everything sucks, but
(22:01):
it's so funny. Like, I mean,it's so funny. And I remember,
like, parents of kids my agewere like, we don't let our kids
watch SpongeBob because it's socynical. And I'm like, I don't
even want to know people likeyou, like I I just like, if,
like, that absurd piece of lifeis the thing that is that that
(22:23):
humor is the thing that, likehelps you to keep going. I think
that's why I want it on mynightstand.
Dave Tarnowski (22:31):
I appreciate that. Yeah, I think we need a
bit of cynicism in our lives. Imean, especially, you know, in
this day and age, you know, theway things have been going have
been weird. I'm trying not topay attention much, you know,
it's, you know, so you just
Colette Fehr (22:51):
kind of have to block some of it out, because
there's, it's so it can be sooverwhelming and so depressing
and scary even, yeah, you know,
Dave Tarnowski (23:00):
yeah, that's, that's why one of the things I
always skirt the issue, becauseit's like, it's something that I
know some people want me to talkabout. But one of the things
that I look at my page as is,it's a safe haven for people who
need it. And I don't want tostart saying, you know, oh, I'm,
(23:22):
you know, just for one or theother, you know, it's like, I
kind of want it to be, yeah,because we all need a safe
space, you know, regardless ofwhat we're going through. I
mean, maybe now more than ever,you know. And, yeah, one of the
things that frustrates me themost is getting through to the
(23:45):
older generation. Yeah, becausemy generation is probably one of
the first generations wheretherapy was okay, you know, it's
it's stud, it's suddenly likethe stigma was less, you know,
and more and more people, andplus, it was just healthcare
(24:09):
started taking it moreseriously. And so it kind of
reached this, this critical massover what, maybe the last decade
or two, you know, where really,I think
Colette Fehr (24:20):
there's a big shift, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Dave Tarnowski (24:23):
but like my parents, oh, my God, I would
love for them to go talk topeople. It would be so amazing
if they would. But that's justnot
Colette Fehr (24:36):
when I decided to become a therapist after my
divorce, 20 years ago, my wholefamily was like, why would you
do that? Go be a lawyer. That'swhat you because the world needs
another one of those, right?
Well, I mean, my mom's anattorney, and I think they
thought some of my skill setswould be good for that job, that
I would make more money or andof course, I had no interest in
(24:58):
being a lawyer. Whatsoever. Nooffense to lawyers, just it
isn't for me, but their theirfaces, their look like, why
would you want to be in mentalhealth, you know? And I just
grew up in one of those people.
Dave Tarnowski (25:12):
Yeah, it's not even a thought, right, right?
Colette Fehr (25:16):
And I think there was a thought that I grew up
with. Like I said, I grew up inWestchester County, and I'm
going to be 52 here. Actually,when this episode drops, I will
be 52 Happy birthday. Thank you.
Thank you. October 3, so andvery proud of it. But when I was
young, I didn't know anybody whowent to therapy. Nobody in my
(25:37):
family went to therapy. Ithought of therapy as something
you did if you were like crazy.
That was my initial thought. SoI do think those older
generations, it's very much grinand bear it, you know, just
muscle your way through, shoveyour feelings down, keep on
(25:58):
trucking. And fortunately, nowwe're realizing that we do need
to talk about things. We do needeach other. People need help.
That's okay. It's normal. It'sactually a very positive thing,
and that's one of the changes inthe world I'm so grateful for.
Dave Tarnowski (26:17):
Yeah, me too.
It's like, as long as there areenough people who have a
willingness to show up, youknow, to, I don't want to say,
preach the gospel of therapy,but, you know, it's just it did
so much for me, you know. And Imean, I how I really look, look
at it, and I think I touchedupon this and the intro to the
(26:41):
first book, it's funny. It'slike dealing with with the new
one now. It's like the old oneis so foreign to me at this
point. But, yeah, but what onething that I always look at, you
know, therapy as is, it's justexcavation, right? And so each
time you you have a meeting, youtill the ground. You, you know,
(27:05):
you till that soil a little bit.
And then, oh, look, I found thisthing, or, you know, and
suddenly you're crying. And youdon't know why you're crying,
but it was just that thing thatwas just like holding this it
was holding this space in youthat suddenly released, you
know, and you don't know what todo with that emotion. And I
(27:28):
mean, it's those moments thatmake therapy for me, you know,
it's, it's like to go back tothe older generation, like my
mother loves to do paint bynumber stuff, right? Like, that
is the way that she relaxes,right? Because she's, God bless
her. She's in her mid 70s, butshe'll say things like, that's
(27:49):
my therapy. And I'm like, yeah,yeah,
Laura Bowman (27:53):
it's not the same.
It's beautifully put though,like, I love that. You really
appreciate the process oftherapy, because I think so many
people that if they don't dowell with therapy, it's because
they're looking for like areally tangible outcome, and
they just don't ever get in,they don't ever really settle
into the process. And it is aprocess,
Dave Tarnowski (28:16):
I think, for me, what it really was, and my first
couple of therapists willprobably definitely, definitely
attest to it not probably, is Iwas very much a blah kind of
patient. I came in and I justunloaded whatever was going on
in my head during that day, orwhatever I was going through,
(28:40):
and then sort through the shit,you know, like one of them she
she was like, literally, everyday you come in here and you
just, like, you fill up this bagof things, and then you just
leave, you know, and I'm here,like, holding this bag of shit.
She didn't say that, but, youknow, it took me a while to go
(29:03):
from that kind of patient to,you know, now I'm getting into
the groove. And, you know, notthat there are levels. You know,
you don't get, like, black beltpatient. You know, that that
would be really cool, though,if, if that were something, you
know,
Laura Bowman (29:19):
I think there are levels, though, yeah. I mean, I
do think that Well, yeah, whenpeople have enough experience
with therapy, they knowthemselves well enough they can
tolerate like, different levelsof things. Even as a Therap
therapist, when I train like,there's certain modalities that
are harder for me to access, youknow, and like, I have to build
(29:39):
almost like I have to buildcapacity to get into those
modalities. And I just, I thinkthat everybody has to build that
pro, you know, that capacitywithin
Colette Fehr (29:50):
what I notice is people come in, and some people,
you know, depending on whatyou're accustomed to, how you've
grown up, where your own comfortlevel is with introspect. And
your own inner life and your ownemotions, some people come in
and they really are at thesurface. They want to be here.
They just haven't gone deeper.
So they don't they're notresistant. They just not there
(30:11):
yet. And, you know, we're alwayshoping to try to go deeper,
because that's where, andgetting into the body and
getting a little moreexperiential, because that's
where so much change andtransformation, and, as you
beautifully say, excavation,where you find those little
nuggets that are sotransformative. I think it's a
perfect metaphor. And otherpeople, you know, I mostly work
(30:33):
with couples, so sometimes I'llget couples that come in and I
can tell that they've both donetherapy, you know, they're
already ready to work at a levelof inner work, because they've
been excavating, and they'vebeen doing that some other
people, you know, they want tocome in and just talk about the
surface level of the argument,and that's they haven't gone
(30:56):
deeper yet. So it is, I thinkthere are levels. We're just not
giving people designation.
Dave Tarnowski (31:05):
Yeah, yeah, no, totally like i You made me think
of one moment, and this wasfairly early on. So, so my, my
ex, she, she was the one whoconvinced me to go to therapy,
because she had been going totherapy for over a decade, I
(31:25):
think, before we met and andthen she and I did couples
therapy together. It was just somuch therapy, so I learned a
lot. But, you know, at one pointI was in the couple's therapy,
and they kept talking aboutdoing the work, doing the work,
and I just yelled out. I waslike, what is the work? Because
(31:48):
before and that story, are wetalking about? But that's the
weird thing about doing the workis you don't know what the work
is until you're doing the work.
It's like, you know the firstrule about fight club is you do
not talk about, you do not talkabout the work. The work finds
you. And there is a moment whereall of a sudden it's just like,
(32:10):
oh, shit, we're doing the work.
Oh, that's why I'm like this,you know. And then bing, bing,
bing, bing, you know, and andthen I think there's, there's,
there are, like you were sayingthat you're there are levels,
Laura, when you get to a certainlevel where you're okay with
(32:30):
yourself, and then you can startto really work on, yeah, how you
are in relationship to others,particularly to others Who
trigger you, you know people whoyou grew up with, people you
know your parents, yourgrandparents, your siblings. You
know I've got two brothers.
They're older than I am. I'vegot a lot of trauma from those
years. And so you know, evennow, as you know, they're in
(32:56):
their early 50s, I'm in my late40s, that dynamic still lives in
a way, you know, it doesn'tmatter how old you get, there's
still gonna be that sort offriction, that sort of, you
know, hierarchy.
Laura Bowman (33:15):
That's so funny that you say that Dave, I've
been recently doing a lot oflike brother work in therapy,
like with grown men that havebrothers like their their idea
of who they are as men is verydefined by like who they were in
relationship to their brothers.
So I find that sibling work sointeresting that, just as an
aside, but
Dave Tarnowski (33:38):
it's, it's a strange thing. It's a strange
thing, you know, because we getalong, you know, there, there
are moments. I mean, we're,we're very different people,
where it's at the point nowwhere the age just doesn't
really matter. But yet, you'vegot, like, those buttons that
people push, but then you've gotthe people who installed them in
(34:01):
the first place, right? And so,how the do you deal with that
now, you know? How do yousomehow subvert that and get
around that, you know? And sothere are levels, different
levels, you know. And it's, it'salmost like how they have a
defensive driving course, youshould almost have a defensive
(34:23):
therapy course. And how, you
Colette Fehr (34:26):
know, for dealing with your family of origin?
Yeah, totally.
Dave Tarnowski (34:30):
You know, you throw up a jump scare and you're
like, how are you going to reactto this go?
Colette Fehr (34:37):
Because it's really true with family stuff,
whether it's siblings, parents,you know, I'll think, Oh, I've
evolved beyond that, or thatwon't bother me anymore. And you
go home and you're right back.
It's the same argument. I'm 16years old. My mom's annoying me
in the same way, you know, it'sjust, it's so it changes. And
we. Grow, but those dynamics areso entrenched, and they can come
(35:02):
right back up for you, even whenyou think you've transformed
beyond
Dave Tarnowski (35:08):
Yeah, yeah, it's like, that's why. So there's
this book out called let them orthe
Unknown (35:16):
Yeah,
Dave Tarnowski (35:18):
yeah, and I'm just like, easier said than
done. Mel, like, it's great intheory, but sometimes it's more
like, Fuck them, you know, I
Colette Fehr (35:32):
think that should be your next book, Dave. You
know,
Laura Bowman (35:35):
it's so funny that you said that, Dave, because,
like, I heard her on aninterview, and she said that the
let them is almost for theperson to get to the fuck them.
She said it's almost like a it'slike it gives you that little
boost of like, self righteousenergy, of like, let them, let
them, not invite me, but it's tosort of fire you up. Yeah, take
(36:00):
care. I've heard her say thatabout your book, but I agree.
It's so much easier said thandone. Yeah?
Dave Tarnowski (36:05):
It's like, I mean, I'm not gonna say her book
is antithetical to mine. We'redefinitely, we're in a Venn
diagram somewhere, yeah, yeah.
Like, I did a little projectwith Gretchen Rubin not too long
ago. So talk about, you know,somebody who, like, we couldn't
be more polar opposite,happiness, happiness. But it's,
(36:28):
it's, it's fun getting to knowpeople in different areas, you
know, and seeing how you know.
You know, we're all trying to,we're all just trying to help.
To help in different ways. Ithink, right,
Colette Fehr (36:45):
right? Yeah. And I think a lot of people pull from
what's worked for them. I knowone of the challenges I see in
therapy about the positivefocus, it's a fine line. Of
course, it's important. Youknow, there's a lot about
positive psychology that Ireally appreciate, and I
actually think I'm a prettyoptimistic person, but I'm also
(37:08):
the first to be like, Oh my God,everything is shit, and, like,
kind of self deprecatingly laughat it. And that's part of what
enables me to be positive. And Ithink it's there's a difference
when there's a wall up to I haveto be positive. I have to be
positive because if anythingnegative gets in, I'm going to
kind of fall apart. It's goingto consume me. And I see that a
(37:30):
lot as a therapist, that somepeople have lived their whole
life that way because of traumaor difficult people in their
lives when they were younger,they had to build those kind of
defense mechanisms. You had aclient say to me the other day,
a male client, well, the minutemy wife starts getting upset, I
just want to get away and focuson something positive. And I
(37:52):
thought that was the kind of theposter child statement for what
I hear from a lot of inparticular, men and couples
therapy, that that's a longstanding coping mechanism, and
certainly nobody you nor us astherapists, is saying, Let's
just all swim and like miserableshit forever and let it drown
(38:12):
us. But that feelings aredesigned to be their energy.
They we have to allow it to movethrough our body and then find
ways to cope and redirectwithout blocking and stuffing
and repressing, because that'swhat makes us sick and what
makes our mental healthconditions worsen.
Dave Tarnowski (38:35):
Yeah, and there's, there's one thing I
think the most important emotionthat there is to deal with is
grief, you know, and it'ssomething that, yeah, we all go
through in our lives, and youknow, for many different ways,
(38:56):
you grieve someone who passed arelationship that you know that
is now over. And I think that'sthat's something that a lot of
people don't have. I don't wantto say they don't have the armor
for it. They don't know thatthey need to armor up for it.
It's a roller coaster. Anyonewho's been through it, it'll
(39:19):
come it'll be here on Monday,and then it'll disappear and
it'll show up out of the blue onFriday. And, you know, that's,
that's one thing that I also,you know, focus on, and a lot of
my work. And I think I feel likeI'm a survivor of it. You know,
(39:39):
I went through a lot of I forgotif I mentioned so I gave up
booze two months ago, and thatwas after a very, very long
period of just a lot of bingedrinking, you know. And I really
wasn't happy with my life. Iwasn't happy with myself. There
(40:01):
were a lot of feelings from overthe years that I had been
postponing, as opposed todealing with in the moment, you
know. And a lot of that wouldturn out to be, you know, these
moments of I would listen to thewrong song, and suddenly I'd be
at a puddle of tears. You know,it's it's been a hard several
(40:26):
years. I've had several lossesin my life, including, might
sound small or silly orwhatever, but my my dog passed,
and she had been around for twomarriages. She had been there,
you know, like, I mean, shedied. She was 19 years old. She
(40:48):
lived a nice, long life, wow.
But being without her, it's justsort of like this. You don't
replace something like that, youknow, you don't replace, yeah,
so, so
Colette Fehr (41:10):
significant relationship that was with you
through your whole kind of adultlife.
Dave Tarnowski (41:17):
Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, so anyone out there
listening who's been through,uh, pet passing, you're not
Laura Bowman (41:26):
people come undone. I've seen people come
undone from this.
Colette Fehr (41:31):
I'm still not over it, and spent three years for me
with my dog, and I still couldcry about it. Yeah, thank you.
Thank you. You know it's just, Ithink it's a relationship. It's
a primary attachment figure.
It's not just a dog. Our dogslove us unconditionally, and I
think a relationship with a dogis one of the best relationships
that's out there. So but youknow, I'm glad you're talking
(41:56):
about grief, because I thinkit's we can't avoid it, but it's
understandable that at times wewant to avoid it because it's so
painful while you're on thatroller coaster. It's just it can
subsume you at times, how heavyit is.
Laura Bowman (42:14):
So, so is the book like a like, a nod towards the
grief? Like, is this like, oh,you working that out in the new
book.
Dave Tarnowski (42:22):
No What, what the new book is and how it
differs from from the firstbook, which was just a
collection of of theaffirmations. I had tried with
the first book to string themtogether to make a sort of
story. But with Book Two, it'sin sections. There's 104
(42:45):
affirmations and the new book,some of them are from the page.
A lot of them are new. And it'ssplit up amongst eight chapters.
So there's daily motivation,mental health, love and
relationships, which is myfavorite, because I think the
entire chapter is new, or, likemost of it is new like never
(43:09):
before seen, because that stuffthat I don't usually like write
on the main page about is loveand relationships. But so then
after that, it's other people,work, success, self improvement,
(43:29):
and then grief and regret. Andso it's these different
sections. And each section, Istart off with the short essays.
And the essay is basically, itopens that section. I love that.
And so it's, it's, I'm a lothappier with this book. I was
(43:51):
able to actually write a bookthis time, yeah, like that, that
first time around, it was sortof like, you know, it was an
overnight success. I mean, I,you know, I can't call it
anything other than what it was.
And so that that first book grewup with the page, you know, it's
like, right? It was three monthsin between when I started the
(44:15):
page, and when, you know, whenthe contract was signed, you
know, so all of a sudden it wasjust like, Okay, gotta throw
this together within the nextfew months. But the second book,
I was able to really be more ofmyself, to show more of myself
in it, you know, and not justhave these pithy sayings you
(44:37):
know, that you can flip throughand be like, you know? It's
like, there's more contextthere, you know? So it's like
taking that initial essay that Iwrote for the first book, which
was like I had pushed for morewriting in that first book,
yeah, but I couldn't quite getit in, so I wanted to get as
much as I. Could into that firstessay. But now, you know, I was
(45:01):
able to split my my attentionamongst eight different, you
know, areas of living. You know,it
Colette Fehr (45:11):
sounds like there's going to be so much in
this that people really get alot out of and I think that's, I
think so. Other point of allthis is that it's entertaining.
It makes us laugh, right? Whypeople love your page every
time? I'm not even kidding,since I got your book a couple
months ago and put it on mycoffee table in the waiting
(45:34):
room, every time I open my door,someone's leaping through it and
they're laughing. They'resmiling. They're like, Oh my
god, I love this. So I thinkthere's that piece that helps
people. But I also think whenyou share about these difficult
topics and you're vulnerableabout your own experiences, it's
so connecting, so powerful.
You're going to help so manypeople. So the book just came
(45:56):
out yesterday, as of thisepisode. So tell all our
listeners, in case they haven'talready found you or gotten the
book, how they can find you onInstagram website where your
book is all that good stuff.
Dave Tarnowski (46:13):
So you could find me on Instagram at
disappointing affirmations. Youcould also go to disappointing
affirmations.com and that willlead you to a portal where you
can order, I think, all nine ofmy current items for for sale,
Colette Fehr (46:31):
because I've been on there. Yeah,
Dave Tarnowski (46:33):
it's we've there quite a lot of stuff, but yeah,
and I'm very excited, so I wasable to show off the book here.
But also, at the same time, thethese affirmation cards are
coming out, and these are,they're really, really
(46:54):
beautiful, little like Tarotesque kind of you, you, you, you
pick your card for the day, andthat's your that's how you know,
how your days.
Colette Fehr (47:07):
And that's a great gift to give people. That's a
great gift
Dave Tarnowski (47:12):
to that too. You know, it's, it's, it's so
giftable. Everybody can think ofat least one person in their
life that would like this sortof stuff.
Colette Fehr (47:21):
So and we're gonna have all the links to order your
book, to your website, yourInstagram handle will also be in
our show notes. And I can't waitto get my hard copy of your
book, and
Dave Tarnowski (47:35):
I'm sad it was it I wasn't able to get you, but
we did set this up pretty quick.
So yes,
Colette Fehr (47:41):
yes, and it's in transit. It's in transit. So all
good. And I think us meetingwith you before will make
reading it that much richer. SoI'm excited.
Laura Bowman (47:50):
And I think that your work, your work is like,
you know, we talk about like,these levels in therapy, you
know, maybe people pick up yourbook who aren't ready to go to
therapy, but you're letting theminto themselves on a level,
right?
Colette Fehr (48:05):
Like you're establishing one level, and
you're modeling something formen, yeah, for
Laura Bowman (48:11):
sure, for sure,
Dave Tarnowski (48:13):
and that that is huge. You know, it's like, worth
it, because, you know, if wecould go, we could talk about
generations, like we didearlier, but getting men to
therapy, that is, that is atough thing, and it was tough
getting me there,
Colette Fehr (48:32):
but like you said, it was so powerful for you. And
when men do come to therapy,they get so much out of it. So
let that be our parting messageto everyone. Men, come to
therapy,
Dave Tarnowski (48:46):
go to therapy, do it. Do the work, and
eventually, one day you willunderstand what that means, even
especially if it sucks.
Colette Fehr (48:55):
Well, thank you for being here, Dave. We're so
excited. And this, our listenersare going to get so much from
this. Everyone loves your book,and I know they're going to love
your second book too. Justagain, it's sorry in advance for
making things weird. Greattitle. So everyone go grab a
copy, and thank you all forlistening. We will see you next
(49:19):
time on insights from the couch,
Dave Tarnowski (49:21):
bye guys, thank you so much. You.
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