October 22, 2025 • 42 mins
Ever feel like your toddler is trying to break you? You’re not alone. In this episode, we’re joined by the incredible Devon Kuntzman—toddler parenting expert and author of the brand new book Transforming Toddlerhood: How to Handle Tantrums and Power Struggles and Raise Resilient Kids Without Losing Your Mind. We dive into the real talk about toddler behavior, emotional regulation, and how we as parents can stay sane and connected in the chaos.
Whether you’re in the thick of toddlerhood yourself, preparing for grandparenting, or just love understanding the "why" behind those tiny tornadoes, this conversation is packed with empathy, science-backed strategies, and hope. Devon gives us a totally refreshing reframe on discipline, tantrums, and screen time—and we also explore how much has changed (and how much hasn’t) in parenting over the decades.
Episode Highlights:
[0:00] Meet Devon and her just-launched book on toddlerhood
[3:06] Redefining what “toddler” really means
[4:33] What’s changed in the way we understand toddler behavior
[7:48] Why toddler meltdowns aren’t bad behavior—they’re communication
[9:47] Parenting styles: from controlling commander to confident guide
[12:49] Real-world scenario: what to do when your toddler hits you
[15:24] Teaching kids to cope with emotions instead of just punishing behavior
[17:19] The importance of reparenting yourself while raising your child
[18:24] How to avoid permissiveness while still setting healthy limits
[21:08] It’s okay to be overwhelmed—and why repair is more powerful than perfection
[25:00] Devon’s 4-step process for repairing relationships after a parenting slip
[27:27] Generational gaps: parenting now vs. then
[29:53] Navigating boundaries with your child and your parents
[32:04] Real talk: toddlers and restaurants are not always a match
[33:53] What’s the deal with screens? Devon breaks down screen time and brain health
[35:32] Parenting isn’t passive—it’s the hardest job you’ll ever love
[37:56] Self-compassion, strong-willed toddlers, and hilarious parenting fails
[39:44] Final takeaways: discipline that connects, teaches, and sets limits
Links and Resources:
🍼 Transforming Toddlerhood by Devon Kuntzman: https://www.transformingtoddlerhood.com/book/
📲 Follow Devon on Instagram: @transformingtoddlerhood
If today's discussion resonated with you or sparked curiosity, please rate, follow, and share "Insights from the Couch" with others. Your support helps us reach more people and continue providing valuable insights. Here’s to finding our purposes and living a life full of meaning and joy. Stay tuned for more!
Pre-order The Cost of Quiet now! Colette’s new book, The Cost of Quiet: How to Have the Hard Conversations that Create Secure, Lasting Love, launches February 3rd. Secure your copy today and get VIP bonuses available only before launch day. https://www.colettejanefehr.com/new-book
🎙️ Love the podcast? Come talk about episodes with us inside The Midlife Chat. It’s a free, private community just for women at midlife who want to keep these conversations going. We’ve created this space for real talk, fresh resources, and honest connection—where you can share ideas and resources, ask questions, and get support from women navigating the same season. Come join us—we’d love to have you!
👉 [Join The Midlife Chat here: https://www.facebook.com/groups/795863256460970/?rdid=QDc8ryzocgFpBrbm#]
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Colette Fehr (00:03):
Marc, welcome to insights from the couch, where
real conversations meet real
Laura Bowman (00:07):
life. At midlife, we're Colette and Laura, two
therapists and best friends,walking through the journey
right alongside you, whetheryou're feeling stuck, restless
or just unsure of what's next.
This is a space for honestconversations, messy truths and
meaningful change.
Colette Fehr (00:26):
And our midlife master class is now open. If
you're looking to level up, getinto action and make midlife the
best season yet. Go to insightsfrom the couch.org and join our
wait list. Now let's dive in.
Welcome back to insights fromthe couch. I'm so excited to
introduce another friend andtalented author, Devin and is
(00:46):
it? Clint Smith, am I saying itright? I got that right. Okay, I
remember and your book is comingout. Actually, it just came out
yesterday, as of this episodedropping transforming
toddlerhood, how to handletantrums and power struggles and
raise resilient kids withoutlosing your mind, which is the
(01:09):
key there. I wish I had knownyou and had this book back when
my kids were young. Devin,welcome. I can't wait to dive
into your book and all of yoursubject matter expertise today.
Devon Kuntzman (01:21):
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me in
here. Hot off the press. Here itis for everyone watching
Colette Fehr (01:28):
love it. It's so good. It's so well done. Thank
you. I really
Devon Kuntzman (01:32):
wanted to write a book that was accessible for
parents, especially if you're aparent of a young child, or even
if you're a grandparent. It's,you know, a lot of parenting
books are long chapters that youhave to read 12 to 20 pages to
get through, and that can be alot whenever you're experiencing
what feels like 100 mini crisesa day with your toddler's
(01:55):
behavior. So I created a bookthat's really a comprehensive
quick reference guide thatallows you to flip to whatever
challenge you're having. There'sa mini chapter on it there for
you with scripts and tips andexactly what you need to do to
get
Colette Fehr (02:07):
through it. Oh my gosh, that's so helpful. And
like we were saying, Devin and Imet in the green room at a news
station in Washington, DC. Wewere on the same program
together, talking aboutdifferent things. She was
talking about her book, and Iwas talking about, I think Gray,
divorce and sleep divorce. Ican't keep track of these. You
were I loved it. Yeah, it wasreally fun. So we were chatting
(02:28):
about our books and our bookjourney. And I had first said to
Devon, it's just kind of funny.
I'm like, Oh, well, you know,our podcast is really geared
toward women at midlife, orwomen in their 40s and 50s. And
you know, Laura and I both hadour kids young, which is so rare
these days, and alsotheoretically not advisable.
Devon's like, well, I'm in my40s, and I have a three year
(02:49):
old. And it really is true. Youknow, whether you you may be my
age, 52 and have toddlers, whichyou define as zero to five years
old, right? Something I actuallyhadn't thought about either. I
thought of toddlers like two orthree,
Devon Kuntzman (03:06):
yeah, one, I usually say one to five. But
what's interesting is toddlerwho can start as early as nine
months, where you're starting tosee your child start of like,
pushing back on like, thingsyou're trying to do, like change
their diaper or get them to eatand things like this. And so
some people are surprised whenthey're nine month old. They're
like, Oh my gosh, what'shappening? Are we already at
(03:27):
toddlerhood? And it's like, yes,it's coming
Colette Fehr (03:29):
fast. So thank you for reframing that, because it
doesn't obviously start atbirth. The whole idea, as you
say in the book, is it's like,the term comes from when you
begin to toddle right, and youcan you have a personality you
can resist. You're starting toassert yourself and make your
needs known, yeah,
Devon Kuntzman (03:49):
kind of like, as a separate like, you start to
realize that you're not anextension of your parent and
caregivers, that you're your ownindividual, and that can start
so early. It's surprising,right, that a nine month old,
like, all of a sudden they'rerefusing at their diaper change.
You're like, what happened here?
Where is my like, sweet, little,cuddly
Laura Bowman (04:06):
baby? So I haven't had a toddler in like, 15 years.
They Yeah, by this definition,like 15 years almost. But what
has changed? Like, what's thislike, dealing with these power
struggles like an emergenttoddler like, what are some of
the things that are shifting inthe zeitgeist on how to deal
(04:29):
with little ones that, like Imight not even be aware
Devon Kuntzman (04:33):
of? Sure? Well, what's so interesting is that in
the last 15 to 20 years, we justhave so much more information in
research on the braindevelopment of young children,
right, and to understand what'sactually happening. So for a
long time, we thought, if yourchild was like refusing to do
something or having a tantrum,that they were having bad
(04:56):
behavior, that they were beingbad, they need to get it
together and. You know, we needto move on with life. And now
what we understand is that a lotis happening in the brain during
this time, and the brain is veryimmature during this period of
life. And not to mentiontoddlers just don't have a lot
of life experience and skillsthey rely on, right? Like
(05:17):
there's not they have so muchmore to learn. So what we
realize is, I think the biggestreframe that has come from all
this research is that behavioris not good or bad, it's
communication. And whether youhave a toddler or you have a
school aged child or a tween ora teenager, even a college
(05:38):
student, all behavior iscommunication. This is true for
every, every human being, if youreally think about it. And so
this idea that we would thinkthat a young child was being bad
if they were didn't want to gotake a bath, or didn't want to
go to bed, or something likethis, and like understanding
(06:00):
that, okay, this isdevelopmentally appropriate
behavior because they'rebecoming their own person,
which, spoiler alert, happensagain in the teen years, right?
Like you guys, I've alreadyexperienced that, like the
second toddlerhood is the teenyears, and so that's why all of
the things I talk about my book,like, yes, it's framed at
toddlerhood, but we're talkinglike relationship skills and
(06:21):
parenting skills that like crossthe lifespan,
Colette Fehr (06:24):
right? And in my office, I'm seeing that adults
really can't communicate, right,that it's so hard to put and I'm
not really kidding, that it's sohard when you're feeling
emotions and you're needingsomething. It's really hard for
high functioning, mature adultsin their 40s, 50s and 60s, to
put their words together, tocommunicate calmly and clearly.
(06:46):
So the fact that we evenremotely think or ever thought a
toddler would be developmentallycapable of that is actually
insane. So when they're having ameltdown, as difficult as is, I
have to say, even delving intothis topic, I have like
flashbacks to like darkness,because it's just such a hard
period of time. And depending onyour personality, you know, I'm
(07:09):
not like the sitting in arocking chair kind of person. I
don't have any patience. It's amajor flaw of mine, and I was
extremely challenged during thetoddler phase, I made a lot of I
lost my temper a lot. I gotfrustrated. I felt like I had no
time. And I love how, in yourbook, you're very normalizing
(07:30):
and forgiving of that, that weparents, even good parents, we
are gonna not always be at ourbest. We are human. So, you
know, take us into some of whatthe crux of what you're sharing
with people about this newapproach to understanding our
toddlers and handling them,
Devon Kuntzman (07:48):
yeah, well, the first part is, I want to comment
on, like, this idea of beinghuman. This is why I dedicate a
whole section of the book to theto the toddler parent. But
really, could just be named toabout the parent, parenting,
like understanding your role,understanding your triggers,
knowing how to calm yourself,what to do in your parenting
(08:09):
partner, is like, not even inthe same page, but in a whole
different book. You know, whatdo you do here? Because these
are challenges all parents face.
All good parents face thatbecause we are all human beings.
And I think that's one of thebiggest points about my book,
that I want people tounderstand, your child is human.
You are human too. You all havefeelings, needs and emotions,
(08:32):
and that does not make anyonebad or wrong, right there. So I
think so important, soimportant, right? And it starts
to change everything when weaccept that right isn't a big
part of life, just like refusingto accept like feelings and
emotions and like the
Colette Fehr (08:50):
reality, yes, but if that weren't the case, I
wouldn't have a job. So I'mgrateful that people struggle.
Laura Bowman (08:55):
But as you say that like, I'm like, just
reflecting on my own parentingand like, I'm definitely from a
generation where it was like,the parent had to be sort of
like, assert authority and makechildren behave. Like my mom
used the word all the time, I'mnon negotiable, which meant,
like, we like, like,conversation is shut down. I'm
(09:16):
in charge. You know, I heardenough a lot like, no and like,
there was some,
Colette Fehr (09:22):
I think children and not her, yeah,
Laura Bowman (09:25):
I think she thought she was like a new wave
parent in some ways. But like,there was still this idea of
like a parent is assertingcontrol, which is like, when I'm
hearing this other piece fromyou, like, we're human, let's
normalize it. Everything'scommunication. It's a different
mindset of like maintainingcontrol.
Devon Kuntzman (09:47):
It is and, you know, I have a chapter dedicated
to parenting roles, because it'sactually really important to
understand what is your role asa parent, just as much as it's
important to understand what todo after you yell, right? How do
you repair the relationship? Butwe need to also understand,
like, what actually is our role,and so I like to say we have the
controlling commander on oneside and the permissive pushover
(10:10):
on the other side. And these aretwo opposite ends of the
spectrum. And when we're beingthe controlling commander, it's
like the my way or the highwaymentality, where we're not
taking the child's feelings,emotions or needs into account
at all. That's just aboutobedience and compliance. On the
other end of the spectrum is apermissive pushover, where we're
(10:31):
placating our kids, giving in,walking on eggshells, trying not
to like, you know, trying tokeep them happy at all costs,
basically, where that means thechild is in control. And guess
what? When each side of therelationship is like, has too
much control, or there's themiddle and Aggie negotiator,
where you're vying for control,that's not really what a healthy
(10:51):
relationship is built on, evenwith young children, where we've
been taught like, oh, we have tocontrol our kids, but this idea
of control is such an illusion,you can't control another human
being. I mean, right? Even atoddler, yeah, especially a
toddler, right? You're like, wecan't control you can't control
them. And so, you know, thething is, is that when you
(11:14):
realize control is an illusion,and you start to accept that you
can't control someone else. Nowyou've got to get more creative
here, right? Because if you'recommit, if you're demanding this
compliance at all costs, whatis, what is the cost of that,
either your child is like,you're degrading your
relationship, or your child'sbecoming a people pleaser, like
(11:35):
pushing down their feelings andemotions to like, you know,
serve the needs of others. Sothat's where you really want to
try to be in charge, which isbeing the, what I call the
confident leader and guide.
Where you're in charge. You'resetting the container. You're
setting limits, creating thecontainer, but your child has
some freedom, and can, you know,make choices inside of that
(11:56):
container. So it's really abouttaking your child's feelings,
emotions and needs into accountwhile creating that safe
container with limits.
Unknown (12:07):
So, yeah, that's so huge. Yeah,
Colette Fehr (12:09):
you're shifting from, you know, compliance at
any cost control, you willsubmit to My authority, like,
right? I'm the parent, and youwill do what I say, and I'll
make you do it to like you'rethis confident leader and guide.
You're in charge, you're theadult. But this is a complete
(12:30):
reframe of the relationship youhave with a toddler. Can you
give us an example of somethinglike a scenario? What this would
look like, whether it's like atantrum, your child refusing to
do something like, how does thisgo down? And again, I just wish
to God I knew this stuff back inthe day. Yeah, you
Devon Kuntzman (12:49):
know, it's, it's, it's, we've all do the
best with what we have when wehave it. And that is, that is
the truth. And repair is abeautiful thing to have it. You
know, being able to repair therelationship. And what I just
want to say is that, um, let'slike, let's take the example of
hitting. So say your child hitsyou because they're upset. Most
(13:12):
parents would be like, badbehavior, time out, punishment,
no screens, no dessert. Go totime out, you know, whatever,
all the things in reality, whatis your kid learning through
these punishments? They'relearning to be afraid of you.
They're learning to like, notmaybe tell you things for fear
of getting in trouble, but liketaking away dessert or screens
(13:33):
or not going to the park, isn'treally related to the behavior.
And you're sure not teachingyour child what to do next time.
That's the biggest difference.
It's not what punishment Does mychild need to, like, learn their
lesson, it's what skill Does mychild need to learn to be
successful here and do itdifferently. So in this new
model, what we're doing is youmight say something like, I
(13:56):
won't let you hit. It'simportant to set limits, right?
And so you move back from yourchild, you put them down,
something like that. And thenyou can say something like, I
said, it's time to take a bath.
So you do the connection piece.
Say, you said, was time take abath. I told you it was time to
take a bath. And then you hitme. It seems like you don't want
Colette Fehr (14:17):
to take a bath.
You're helping them make senseof what they're trying to
exactly.
Devon Kuntzman (14:21):
You're creating connection and helping them make
sense of it. And then you setthe limit. So you create the
connection, you set the limit.
This is the recipe for effectivediscipline. Create the limit,
or, sorry, create theconnection. Set the limit. So
then you might say, hittinghurts. It's unsafe. I will not
let you hit me. And then you saysomething like, what can you do
when you feel upset and you wantto hit you don't want to go to
(14:45):
the teaching skills piece whenyour child's really upset. So
you may have to wait a littlebit of time, but ideally, once
your child's not upset anymore,you talk about what they can do
next time when they feelfrustrated, when they feel mad,
you. Because we want to teachour child skills, coping skills,
relationship skills,communication skills, not punish
them, and have them alwayslooking outside themselves at
(15:10):
like for an authority figure todraw the line, we want them to
learn how to regulatethemselves. That's what really
success looks like, and that'srequires a different approach,
Laura Bowman (15:24):
but you're also validating emotion, right? Like,
it makes sense, there's timeswhere it's like, I don't want to
take a bath. And, like, it makessense that you wouldn't want to
take a bath,
Devon Kuntzman (15:33):
especially if you're having a fun play. Yeah,
so, and that's
Laura Bowman (15:37):
I didn't get that piece in my generation, like my
parenting, it was sort of like,you're not feeling that, that
that's that doesn't matter.
You're over that.
Colette Fehr (15:44):
But nobody gave a shit about emotions. Like,
right? No, yeah. It's like,you're fine. You're fine. That's
nobody talked about emotions atall.
Laura Bowman (15:54):
Yeah, yeah. So it's a different model,
Devon Kuntzman (15:58):
and it's so important, though, because when
we think about raising anemotionally healthy child,
right? Because you're on theother end of that, like all the
years later, and like thinkingabout relationships, because,
like, parenting is really thefirst relationship your child's
ever going to be in, right? It'skind of like it's the model for
other relationships movingforward.
Colette Fehr (16:21):
Really, it's got a profound impact. I mean, that is
really, that's what we go backto when I do couples therapy, I
do an individual adultattachment interview with each
partner, and we go back, and Ialways explain, it's not about
blaming your parents. I agree weall did the best we could, and
some people were really harmedby some of what happened. And
(16:42):
none of us gets throughparenting perfectly. Every child
will have something they can sayabout you in therapy one day, I
promise you that. But we'relooking at what was modeled. How
did adults respond to youremotions? And I always say
loosely, around 40, maybe even35 if you're older than that,
you just, I just don't getpeople in my office who were
(17:03):
emotionally attuned to meaningthat somebody leaned into their
feelings, validated, connectedwith them in that place. And it
does have an impact, becausethen you don't know how to do
that for yourself, and youcertainly don't know how to do
that for a partner,
Devon Kuntzman (17:19):
yeah, and for a child, and that's why switching
your way of parenting. And Ithink there's so many parents
out there that are like, Okay, Idon't want to parent the way
that maybe I was raised, butthen they go too far the other
direction, and they're like, Idon't know what to do, so I'm
not setting limits because Idon't want to mess them up. Oh,
now my child's crying. Did I gotoo far? Am I wearing them
(17:40):
emotionally, right? It's likethis whole rabbit hole, and
that's why, you know, it can beso challenging, but it's so
important to know that, youknow, just taking feelings,
emotions and needs intoconsideration, even if it's not
perfect, because it doesn't needto be perfect, because in the
imperfect moments in thehumanness is where all the
(18:02):
learning happens. We're allowedto repair the relationship.
We're allowed to learn alongsideour kids, but when we're asked
to re parent ourselves alongsideour toddlers. So it's, it's a
lot of work, right? And so,yeah, it's, it's really a
commitment to to being a cyclebreaker and changing, changing
the direction and the rippleeffect for the future.
Colette Fehr (18:24):
Yes, and you're giving people an actual
solution, like a way to this ishow we can do this, where we're
not creating enabledpermissiveness that's actually
really shooting your child'schances of relational and
functioning in the foot. Can wespeak to that just for a second?
Because I am horrified by what Isee out in the world where kids
(18:47):
are like running the show.
Parents don't say no. The wholefamily system operates out of
the kid kid. I know I sound likean old person, an old crabby
person, but when I am in public,kids are running around
screaming. There's noconsideration. It feels like
there's no adult. And the kidsjust like, what's whatever the
kid wants. And you just look atit and go like, Oh my God, this
(19:09):
cannot be the answer. So whathave? What do you see happening
with that? And how much of aproblem is that?
Devon Kuntzman (19:18):
Yeah, it's super challenging, because there's all
these terms, like positiveparenting, gentle parenting,
that people actuallymisconstrue, right? Because they
don't have like, a hard and fastdefinition. And so then people
are like, misconstruing, like,being gentle, but then they are
like, Okay, I'm gentle withemotions, but then they're also
(19:38):
like, gentle with the limits.
And it's like, oh no, we needlimits. That's why I created
this recipe for effectivediscipline. We need to create
connection where we're takingfeelings, emotions, needs into
account. We need to set limitsand follow through on them,
because that is very healthy.
And we need to teach skills,because that's important for
success later in life. Butthere's a big. Difference
(20:00):
between normalizing allowingtoddlers to take up space in
this world, right? Becauseyou're going to have a toddler
who does not like beingrestrained on an airplane,
because toddlers aredevelopmentally wired to
experiment and explore, and theydo that through movement, and on
an airplane, they can't move. Soyou're going to have toddlers
having a meltdown. So that'simportant to normalize toddlers
(20:22):
taking up space in this worldand with typical toddler
behavior. However, that'sdifferent than, you know, having
kids that are, you know, runningaround with like, zero limits
that don't have, or like, youknow, parents are constantly,
like, bowing to the child'swishes to avoid a tantrum or a
(20:43):
meltdown. And that's thatpermissiveness, that permissive
pushover, which we all go theresometimes, but it's about when
that becomes consistent. Yeah,that that's when it becomes a
problem. Because we might thinkthat we're like saving our kids
emotions, right, because theydidn't get upset, but we're
truly not setting them up forsuccess with emotional
(21:04):
resilience or the relationshipskills that they need to be
successful.
Laura Bowman (21:08):
Let's be like, really real. It did. It takes a
lot of distress tolerance on thebehalf of the parent. You have
to be talking to yourself,patient, and again, I go back
to, like, understanding yourrole, that you're there to be
this, like, steady guide, andthat you're going to be in it
(21:29):
with your kid. So, I mean, justbecause, you know they're not
going to always listen, theycould scream the whole plane
flight. They could try to, like,get to the aisle, yeah, the
whole and you have to experiencethat. I've experienced it too,
and,
Colette Fehr (21:43):
yeah, it's grueling, it's awful. It's so
rough on your nervous system. Iremember flying Charlotte to
Hawaii when she was her hergrandparents and aunt lived
there, and she was maybe 15months old, and it seemed like
she screamed the whole way everyflight, because I forced her to
(22:05):
be in the car seat. I was afraidof turbulence, like causing an
accident, and the stress I feltas a parent between people in
the cabin. We were in firstclass. So you can imagine,
everybody hated me, and theywere you here? Why are you here?
And I didn't blame them. Andthen, like seeing my kids so
(22:26):
distressed. I mean, you canreally have a panic attack in
these moments. Oh, it
Devon Kuntzman (22:32):
is so hard. I mean, that's why this is the
hardest work we'll ever do. Isthat re parenting piece right
alongside it is truly thehardest work we'll ever do. It
won't look perfect, it won't beperfect, and we'll be doing the
rest of our lives, and that'sokay, right? But it is true, and
you're not always going to havethe bandwidth or the emotional
(22:54):
resilience or the frustrationtolerance, and that's okay too.
And so that's where this idea ofrepairing the relationship is so
important, because we are nevergoing to be perfect parents.
We're never going to be robots,and our kids actually don't need
that, because when our kidsexperience challenges in life,
but then there's repair, andthey learn how to navigate it,
(23:17):
it's going to help. But why? Butwhen I think about repair, I
think about it in four steps so,and I actually like to share
that, because repair is morethan just an apology. To me,
it's taking ownership for yourside of the street. Something
like, wow, I felt reallyfrustrated, and I lost control
(23:38):
of myself, and I yelled. Andthen you might say, how was that
for you, or what was yourexperience? So then you also
check in on the impact. That'sthe second step, and you see,
and then you validate whateveryour child says. If you have a
young toddler, one or two, theymight not be able to tell you
that's okay. You just the factthat you're asking, you're
setting up they understand, andyou're setting up that habit for
(24:01):
when they are able to actuallyrespond. And then you can
apologize. You can say, I'mreally sorry I yelled at you.
That's not that was not myintention, and I apologize for
the impact. And then you can dothe fourth step, which I think
is the most important, which isthe redo. Next time this
happens, I'm going to blank.
Next time I feel like this, I'mgoing to blink, because to me,
(24:22):
that's the important part. Isthe intention you're setting to
do it differently. You'restarting to rewire your brain,
and you're practicing it,practice right there, and then
do it, do a redo. And that'swhat really starts to create the
momentum and create the changeand rebuild that trust with your
child. And guess what? When youhave this 567, year old, they're
(24:44):
gonna be like a hi, mom, hi.
Remember you said next time thishappens, you're going to blank,
blank, blank, and that's okay.
You don't have to feelembarrassed about that, like
it's it's part of the humanexperience. It's actually
helpful when your kids. Like,you know, but
Laura Bowman (25:00):
it also models for your child how to repair as well
and take responsibility andbegin. It's a beautiful
opportunity. Yeah, it's like toiterate on their relationship so
seamlessly, is you modeling that
Devon Kuntzman (25:14):
it's, it's so important that that's the
relationship skills. Like, howcool is it that we don't have to
be perfect, and we don't have toknow all the answers, and we can
still be teaching those skills,as long as we're willing to be
human and vulnerable, which is abig ask. It takes
Colette Fehr (25:29):
practice, yeah, but so important, and I love
that we're in this model youhave. We're teaching kids how to
cope, because that is the bigmissing piece for people who
grew up with this old schoolparenting, right? This like
authoritarian and at times, alot of what I hear from people
that used to be normalized wasdownright abusive, whether they
(25:52):
define it that way or not,physically, emotionally
horrible. Some of the stuff thatwent on, you know, even my own
father, who had really loving,great parents, and it was born
in the 40s, you know, justcaveat, you know, some of the
stuff, he was put on a train andsent to sleep away camp, out of
New York City, out of Harlem atfive years old, and sent to camp
(26:14):
for two and a half months.
Didn't see his parents. Andthose were, you know, that was
not, at the time, thought to benow we understand from an
attachment perspective like thatis super fucked up on every
level, so we've come a long way.
But I think the fact that notonly are we being human with our
kids and we're teaching them,we're really helping them learn
(26:36):
to cope with their own emotionsand to find constructive ways of
dealing with these things fromthe youngest age, instead of
waiting till somebody's 45 andthey lose their temper and their
marriage and they don't know howto handle that frustration,
you're teaching them from thebeginning like we're baking it
in,
Devon Kuntzman (26:56):
yeah, I mean, and it's not going to be it's
not going to be perfect, Butwe're giving kids like these
skills early on, and the abilityfor them to practice them early
on is going to make such a hugedifference. Because, you know,
as we all know, our brains haveneuroplasticity. You know, our
brains can change. We can learnnew things, new habits, which is
beautiful and amazing. But ofcourse, it's easier in the first
(27:19):
five years of life than it islater on, because all those
neuro pathways and connectionsare forming for the first time.
Colette Fehr (27:25):
Get it on the first round. I
Laura Bowman (27:27):
think we're getting better. We're getting
better at teaching this stuff. Ithe parenting advice is getting
better, even from my like, whenI was raising kids. I mean, what
do you what is the common thingyou see? Or do you see? Like the
the clash between generations.
Like, I would say, in the nextfive to 10 years, I'll probably
be a grandmother. Like, what it,what is, what is the mismatch
(27:48):
between the generations?
Devon Kuntzman (27:52):
Well, I think, like, one thing that is
happening is, like, this idea ofis like, well, if I was so bad,
then, you know, so it's a lot oflike grandparents, like feeling
almost attacked because, likethings have changed, and feeling
like defensive about how theyparented, right? And, gosh, my
(28:13):
heart goes out because, likeeveryone, as I, as I already
said, everyone does the bestwith what they have in that
moment, and that is nothing tobe ashamed about, right? And so,
like, I just think that that'sthat's challenging as like, the
times have changed to, like,kind of be faced with, like, oh
gosh, maybe I could have donethis differently, or could have
(28:35):
done this better, but, you know,you can't spend your life
looking through the rear viewmirror, as I call it, right? And
what it coulda shoulda land,right? You gotta, like, look out
the the windshield at thehorizon. And so I think that's
just one of the things to likethat comes up a lot. And then I
just think, like, this otheridea of, like, the still, this
(28:56):
idea of, like, control versusbeing in charge. It's like, oh,
you need to get control of yourchild where more so it's saying
something like, I'm I'muncomfortable with my grandson
jumping on the couch. That'sreally what I think like, maybe
a grandparent wants to, like,say in that moment, but then it
(29:18):
becomes like, you need tocontrol your child. No, he's a
toddler. He, you know, I'm notgoing to, you know. And so it
becomes like this thing where,so I think it's hard, because
actually, everyone wants to getto the same goal, but they maybe
don't have a shared language toget to the same goal. Because in
the end, like, Yeah, we shouldset a limit about, you know, a
kid jumping on the couch. Youknow, everyone can agree that
(29:40):
kids probably shouldn't bejumping on the couch. It's not
good for the couch. They couldfall off. Blah, blah, blah, but
it's about how to have, like, ashared common language, or how
to, like, talk about a sharedgoal. And I think sometimes that
gets
Colette Fehr (29:53):
lost. Yeah, yeah, no, I'm just thinking about it,
right. You're You're right. Wehave to the key. Is the parent
does need to be in charge. We doneed to set limits, but we need
to find a way to connect thebehavior that's happening with
what else can you do? What's ourcommon goal here, right? Really
(30:13):
teaching and guiding the childto learn experientially for
themselves. And I think asgrandparents, you know, going
into grandparent land,hopefully, for any of you
listening who are more likeLaura and I, which I'm
definitely not ready to be agrandparent yet, just because I
don't think my kids should beparents yet, I want them to
(30:34):
enjoy their their 20s for alittle longer. But it's it'll
come soon, and that we can also,even if we didn't do it all, we
did it the best we could, orwhatever. I mean, we, when my
kids were little, there weren'teven screens. You had a TV.
There was no, yeah. I mean, mykids were born in 2001 and 2003
we had the wiggles. Yeah, it wasa very, exactly, a very, and
(30:57):
whatever, those, maybe thoseTeletubbies were out. I can't
remember if that was out, butyeah, but I was playing VCR VHS
tapes of Disney movies. That'show long ago I was doing this
so, but I've already acceptedthat I made a lot of mistakes,
and I went through a divorcewhen my kids were toddlers, and
(31:18):
so there was a lot pressing downon me to amplify my stress and
make my bandwidth that muchless. But I can be supporting my
kids when they have their kidswith, first of all, respecting
their autonomy to raise theirkids as they see fit, because I
think that's really important.
And also having this approachwhen I'm watching the kids or,
(31:39):
you know, they come to stay withme, or I'm out with them to
lunch, and it's not appropriateto run around the restaurant
screaming, because you'reimpacting other diners that, you
know, I can take this, make theconnection and set the limit and
help the kid what you're saying,like, what do you want to do?
Like, what can you do whenyou're feeling this way and be
(31:59):
supportive.
Devon Kuntzman (32:04):
And that scenario might mean, I mean,
gosh, so I have a table in mybook of attention span, and so,
you know, a three year old'sattention span. Wait, what is
it? Oh, it's pretty love. It'sunder 10 minutes. Oh, wow, I
thought a three and four yearold. So if we're going to a
restaurant, and a, we have ahungry kid, and B, we're asking
(32:24):
them to sit like our adult likerestaurant experiences are not
set up for toddlers. So what wemight have to do is adjust how
we do things to help our childsucceed, which might mean, you
know, before food comes, likehaving a little, like, pre
appetizer snack already there,or ordering for the child right
(32:45):
away, maybe getting the child upgoing on, like a little, you
know, walk in, like, the lobbyof the restaurant, or something
like, or if I try to sit onpatios with toddlers as much as
possible, or in more informalDining environments, maybe,
like, you know, a brewery orsomething where it's just not
quite as formal. So your kidcan, like, get up and walk
(33:06):
around and stuff, because youmight have to take them on a
little trip come back. You mighthave to pull out a surprise toy
from your bag that they've neverseen before to keep them to re
engage them again. And so it'sall about like, how do we take
their feelings and needs andemotions into account, as well
as, like, you know, our needsand stuff, right? Because you
(33:27):
can't have your toddler runninga muck in a restaurant, and
restaurants are really hard fortoddlers because they're
expected to sit for an hour anda half when 10 minutes is
already way too much. Yeah, it'sinsane.
Colette Fehr (33:38):
We're setting them up for failure. Okay, I have a
question too, before we wrap up,do you take any kind of stance,
or what's your view, even if youdon't on technology limits with
technology, what all of thisscreen time is doing to kids
brains?
Devon Kuntzman (33:53):
Yes, I love this question, and I have a really
great chapter in my book thatcovers everything screen time.
It's actually a little bitlonger of a chapter, because
there's a lot of research totalk about. Talk about a lot of
research in there. Talk about alot of things. And really what I
want parents to do is to createhealthy habits around screens.
(34:13):
And you need to take your uniquechild in their development into
account, so that it might mean,you know, you have a child who's
very sensitive to screen time,and they're going to do better
without screen time, butregardless, you should stay
within the limits of what'srecommended, because we know
that excessive screen timeperiod is very bad for
(34:35):
development at this age, less ismore when it comes to screen
time, and you need to know yourown child's impact of screens
and their threshold, becausescreens oftentimes activate the
reward pathways in the brain,releases dopamine, makes them
addictive. So if you're going togive screen time to a young
(34:57):
child, the type of screen youuse. Life and what you have your
child watch matters because itcan increase the addictive
qualities in the dopamine ordecrease that. And so I give a
lot of guidance in my book abouthow to actually go through and
look at what is low stimulation.
How do you know if a show is lowstimulation and better for your
(35:19):
child's brain. But in the end,we have to create habits that
are supportive for where yourchild is at developmentally and
excessive screen time is alwaysa bad idea.
Laura Bowman (35:32):
You know, what I hear in all this is just like, I
mean, long gone is the day whereit's like, parenting is this
passive process, where, I mean,like, even these parents who,
like, you know, they think theirkids are going to do something
for them, emotionally like, ohmy god, I have something that's
going to love me or, and, andit's just, it's like, parenting
(35:52):
is a really intensive job. It'semotionally demanding. There's a
lot to learn. You're always astudent, and I hope that people
are going into parenting moreintentionally. I feel like they
are,
Devon Kuntzman (36:08):
yeah, and just knowing it's not a one size fits
all approach, right? I thinkthat's like, the other thing I
hear you saying is, like, it'snot just the one size fits all
approach, and it's it'sphysically grueling as well
these early years, and a lot oftoddler parents have a toddler
and a baby. They're have atoddler and they're postpartum,
or they're pregnant, and it'stough. It is tough. So you've
(36:31):
really gotta go easy on yourselfand just know that all of these
moments where you're feeling asense of urgency, like you have
to have it all figured out rightnow, or you have to respond
right now. That's your stressresponse trying to trick you
into reacting, and that it'smore about creating that
physical safety and emotionalsafety and then responding.
(36:52):
Because if your child isphysically safe, you respond
right now, or you respond infive minutes or 10 minutes, 15
minutes, it doesn't matterthey're physically safe. No
one's going to the hospital.
It's going to be okay. Take timeto ground yourself, get out of
that urgency so you can thinkclearly. Because if you're on
your own emotional rollercoaster, you're not going to be
able to think clearly. And so Ithink that that's like, just a
(37:12):
really important thing is like,when you start feeling that
sense of urgency bubble up, it'sa signal to slow down
Laura Bowman (37:21):
and have tons of self compassion like, especially
like and not all kids. And Ihave three kids, and every one
of them needs differentparenting, and some kids are
really highly demanding andreally push parents to the edge.
So it's like having a ton ofself compassion for how hard and
grueling it can be is. I mean,we talk about that all the time
(37:42):
in pretty much every challengethat we face. But I think
parenting is a huge place whereself compassion has to come in,
because that critic of like,you're not doing it right, other
women are doing it better. Weknow it connect, yeah,
Colette Fehr (37:57):
yeah, or the fear that you're going to somehow
damage your child. I'll justtell one quick little funny
tidbit before we wrap up thatI'm thinking of and I'll out
myself. You can all judge me.
Feel free. It's okay. I canhandle it. My younger daughter,
Curran, who is an amazing humanboth of my daughters, of course,
but I have two daughters withvery strong personalities, not
that I wonder where they gotthat from. And one day, I was at
(38:19):
my wit's end with them. Theywere fighting in the back seat,
in their car seats. They're justover two years apart, and I was
trying to pump gas. I don'tremember what was happening, but
I was starting to lose it. And Iwas never spanked as a kid, and
I was not a spanker, but I gotto a point where I couldn't get
them to do what I wanted, orshut the hell up, or whatever it
(38:40):
was. And so I said, current, I'mgonna spank you. And I told her
I was gonna spank her, and thespanking wasn't hard, but I gave
her like what felt it feltshocking to me, because I'm not
a spanker. I was just sodesperate. And she looked at me,
she was three years old, and shesaid, Is that the best you can
do? And I was like, Holy shit, Iam screwed with this kid. She is
(39:03):
gonna be a wild child. Sheactually ended up being she was
so hard as a toddler, but shewas really easy later in life.
But I thought, Oh my God. Like,here I was so guilt ridden and
desperate, and I thought, I'mspanking my child. And she just
looked at me steely eyed, andwas like, Is that the best you
can do? That's hilarious. Iknow, I know we laugh about it
(39:25):
to this day, so I agree. I thinkwe've got to have a lot of grace
for ourselves the way weparented, the way we were
parented, the way we're going tograndparent. And it does sound
like we're doing a lot better,though, in this generation, with
being intentional and aware ofthe impact we have.
Devon Kuntzman (39:44):
Absolutely Yep, it's just all just remember the
the recipe for effectivediscipline that we need to
create connection and teachskills just as much as we need
to set limits and follow throughon them, that they all work
together to create thatdevelopmentally smart, healthy
discipline.
Colette Fehr (39:59):
That's it. It.
That's a great takeaway. AndDevin, before you go tell
everybody where they can findyou, I know you have huge social
media presence where they canget your book, because your book
is out now. It just launchedyesterday. So let everyone know
how they can find you andconnect with you and get the
book
Devon Kuntzman (40:15):
absolutely so you can find my book on Amazon,
Target, Walmart, Barnes andNoble, all the normal places you
might get your book or you cango to transforming
toddlerhood.com. Backslash book,and my website and and my
Instagram are all transformingtoddlerhood. I kept it easy. You
just put transformingtoddlerhood in and you'll find
me everywhere,
Colette Fehr (40:35):
wonderful. And I'm so excited for all of our
listeners to get a hold of yourbook. I mean, I think even if
you're not in this phase, thisis fascinating stuff, and it's
so interesting to see how muchit's changed. So everyone go
grab a copy of Devon's book andcheck her out. I'm sure you're
gonna see her all over the mediathis week, as she's promoting
(40:56):
the book too. And we reallyappreciate your time and sharing
your knowledge with us today.
Thanks for being here. Thank youso much for having me. It was
really fun, and we'll have allthe links to everything in our
show notes as well. We're sograteful to you guys for
listening to another episode ofinsights from the couch, and
hope you got some great insightsfrom our couch today. We'll see
you next time.
Unknown (41:17):
Bye guys. You.
Marc, welcome to insights from the couch, where
real conversations meet real
Laura Bowman (00:07):
life. At midlife, we're Colette and Laura, two
therapists and best friends,walking through the journey
right alongside you, whetheryou're feeling stuck, restless
or just unsure of what's next.
This is a space for honestconversations, messy truths and
meaningful change.
Colette Fehr (00:26):
And our midlife master class is now open. If
you're looking to level up, getinto action and make midlife the
best season yet. Go to insightsfrom the couch.org and join our
wait list. Now let's dive in.
Welcome back to insights fromthe couch. I'm so excited to
introduce another friend andtalented author, Devin and is
(00:46):
it? Clint Smith, am I saying itright? I got that right. Okay, I
remember and your book is comingout. Actually, it just came out
yesterday, as of this episodedropping transforming
toddlerhood, how to handletantrums and power struggles and
raise resilient kids withoutlosing your mind, which is the
(01:09):
key there. I wish I had knownyou and had this book back when
my kids were young. Devin,welcome. I can't wait to dive
into your book and all of yoursubject matter expertise today.
Devon Kuntzman (01:21):
Thank you so much. Thank you for having me in
here. Hot off the press. Here itis for everyone watching
Colette Fehr (01:28):
love it. It's so good. It's so well done. Thank
you. I really
Devon Kuntzman (01:32):
wanted to write a book that was accessible for
parents, especially if you're aparent of a young child, or even
if you're a grandparent. It's,you know, a lot of parenting
books are long chapters that youhave to read 12 to 20 pages to
get through, and that can be alot whenever you're experiencing
what feels like 100 mini crisesa day with your toddler's
(01:55):
behavior. So I created a bookthat's really a comprehensive
quick reference guide thatallows you to flip to whatever
challenge you're having. There'sa mini chapter on it there for
you with scripts and tips andexactly what you need to do to
get
Colette Fehr (02:07):
through it. Oh my gosh, that's so helpful. And
like we were saying, Devin and Imet in the green room at a news
station in Washington, DC. Wewere on the same program
together, talking aboutdifferent things. She was
talking about her book, and Iwas talking about, I think Gray,
divorce and sleep divorce. Ican't keep track of these. You
were I loved it. Yeah, it wasreally fun. So we were chatting
(02:28):
about our books and our bookjourney. And I had first said to
Devon, it's just kind of funny.
I'm like, Oh, well, you know,our podcast is really geared
toward women at midlife, orwomen in their 40s and 50s. And
you know, Laura and I both hadour kids young, which is so rare
these days, and alsotheoretically not advisable.
Devon's like, well, I'm in my40s, and I have a three year
(02:49):
old. And it really is true. Youknow, whether you you may be my
age, 52 and have toddlers, whichyou define as zero to five years
old, right? Something I actuallyhadn't thought about either. I
thought of toddlers like two orthree,
Devon Kuntzman (03:06):
yeah, one, I usually say one to five. But
what's interesting is toddlerwho can start as early as nine
months, where you're starting tosee your child start of like,
pushing back on like, thingsyou're trying to do, like change
their diaper or get them to eatand things like this. And so
some people are surprised whenthey're nine month old. They're
like, Oh my gosh, what'shappening? Are we already at
(03:27):
toddlerhood? And it's like, yes,it's coming
Colette Fehr (03:29):
fast. So thank you for reframing that, because it
doesn't obviously start atbirth. The whole idea, as you
say in the book, is it's like,the term comes from when you
begin to toddle right, and youcan you have a personality you
can resist. You're starting toassert yourself and make your
needs known, yeah,
Devon Kuntzman (03:49):
kind of like, as a separate like, you start to
realize that you're not anextension of your parent and
caregivers, that you're your ownindividual, and that can start
so early. It's surprising,right, that a nine month old,
like, all of a sudden they'rerefusing at their diaper change.
You're like, what happened here?
Where is my like, sweet, little,cuddly
Laura Bowman (04:06):
baby? So I haven't had a toddler in like, 15 years.
They Yeah, by this definition,like 15 years almost. But what
has changed? Like, what's thislike, dealing with these power
struggles like an emergenttoddler like, what are some of
the things that are shifting inthe zeitgeist on how to deal
(04:29):
with little ones that, like Imight not even be aware
Devon Kuntzman (04:33):
of? Sure? Well, what's so interesting is that in
the last 15 to 20 years, we justhave so much more information in
research on the braindevelopment of young children,
right, and to understand what'sactually happening. So for a
long time, we thought, if yourchild was like refusing to do
something or having a tantrum,that they were having bad
(04:56):
behavior, that they were beingbad, they need to get it
together and. You know, we needto move on with life. And now
what we understand is that a lotis happening in the brain during
this time, and the brain is veryimmature during this period of
life. And not to mentiontoddlers just don't have a lot
of life experience and skillsthey rely on, right? Like
(05:17):
there's not they have so muchmore to learn. So what we
realize is, I think the biggestreframe that has come from all
this research is that behavioris not good or bad, it's
communication. And whether youhave a toddler or you have a
school aged child or a tween ora teenager, even a college
(05:38):
student, all behavior iscommunication. This is true for
every, every human being, if youreally think about it. And so
this idea that we would thinkthat a young child was being bad
if they were didn't want to gotake a bath, or didn't want to
go to bed, or something likethis, and like understanding
(06:00):
that, okay, this isdevelopmentally appropriate
behavior because they'rebecoming their own person,
which, spoiler alert, happensagain in the teen years, right?
Like you guys, I've alreadyexperienced that, like the
second toddlerhood is the teenyears, and so that's why all of
the things I talk about my book,like, yes, it's framed at
toddlerhood, but we're talkinglike relationship skills and
(06:21):
parenting skills that like crossthe lifespan,
Colette Fehr (06:24):
right? And in my office, I'm seeing that adults
really can't communicate, right,that it's so hard to put and I'm
not really kidding, that it's sohard when you're feeling
emotions and you're needingsomething. It's really hard for
high functioning, mature adultsin their 40s, 50s and 60s, to
put their words together, tocommunicate calmly and clearly.
(06:46):
So the fact that we evenremotely think or ever thought a
toddler would be developmentallycapable of that is actually
insane. So when they're having ameltdown, as difficult as is, I
have to say, even delving intothis topic, I have like
flashbacks to like darkness,because it's just such a hard
period of time. And depending onyour personality, you know, I'm
(07:09):
not like the sitting in arocking chair kind of person. I
don't have any patience. It's amajor flaw of mine, and I was
extremely challenged during thetoddler phase, I made a lot of I
lost my temper a lot. I gotfrustrated. I felt like I had no
time. And I love how, in yourbook, you're very normalizing
(07:30):
and forgiving of that, that weparents, even good parents, we
are gonna not always be at ourbest. We are human. So, you
know, take us into some of whatthe crux of what you're sharing
with people about this newapproach to understanding our
toddlers and handling them,
Devon Kuntzman (07:48):
yeah, well, the first part is, I want to comment
on, like, this idea of beinghuman. This is why I dedicate a
whole section of the book to theto the toddler parent. But
really, could just be named toabout the parent, parenting,
like understanding your role,understanding your triggers,
knowing how to calm yourself,what to do in your parenting
(08:09):
partner, is like, not even inthe same page, but in a whole
different book. You know, whatdo you do here? Because these
are challenges all parents face.
All good parents face thatbecause we are all human beings.
And I think that's one of thebiggest points about my book,
that I want people tounderstand, your child is human.
You are human too. You all havefeelings, needs and emotions,
(08:32):
and that does not make anyonebad or wrong, right there. So I
think so important, soimportant, right? And it starts
to change everything when weaccept that right isn't a big
part of life, just like refusingto accept like feelings and
emotions and like the
Colette Fehr (08:50):
reality, yes, but if that weren't the case, I
wouldn't have a job. So I'mgrateful that people struggle.
Laura Bowman (08:55):
But as you say that like, I'm like, just
reflecting on my own parentingand like, I'm definitely from a
generation where it was like,the parent had to be sort of
like, assert authority and makechildren behave. Like my mom
used the word all the time, I'mnon negotiable, which meant,
like, we like, like,conversation is shut down. I'm
(09:16):
in charge. You know, I heardenough a lot like, no and like,
there was some,
Colette Fehr (09:22):
I think children and not her, yeah,
Laura Bowman (09:25):
I think she thought she was like a new wave
parent in some ways. But like,there was still this idea of
like a parent is assertingcontrol, which is like, when I'm
hearing this other piece fromyou, like, we're human, let's
normalize it. Everything'scommunication. It's a different
mindset of like maintainingcontrol.
Devon Kuntzman (09:47):
It is and, you know, I have a chapter dedicated
to parenting roles, because it'sactually really important to
understand what is your role asa parent, just as much as it's
important to understand what todo after you yell, right? How do
you repair the relationship? Butwe need to also understand,
like, what actually is our role,and so I like to say we have the
controlling commander on oneside and the permissive pushover
(10:10):
on the other side. And these aretwo opposite ends of the
spectrum. And when we're beingthe controlling commander, it's
like the my way or the highwaymentality, where we're not
taking the child's feelings,emotions or needs into account
at all. That's just aboutobedience and compliance. On the
other end of the spectrum is apermissive pushover, where we're
(10:31):
placating our kids, giving in,walking on eggshells, trying not
to like, you know, trying tokeep them happy at all costs,
basically, where that means thechild is in control. And guess
what? When each side of therelationship is like, has too
much control, or there's themiddle and Aggie negotiator,
where you're vying for control,that's not really what a healthy
(10:51):
relationship is built on, evenwith young children, where we've
been taught like, oh, we have tocontrol our kids, but this idea
of control is such an illusion,you can't control another human
being. I mean, right? Even atoddler, yeah, especially a
toddler, right? You're like, wecan't control you can't control
them. And so, you know, thething is, is that when you
(11:14):
realize control is an illusion,and you start to accept that you
can't control someone else. Nowyou've got to get more creative
here, right? Because if you'recommit, if you're demanding this
compliance at all costs, whatis, what is the cost of that,
either your child is like,you're degrading your
relationship, or your child'sbecoming a people pleaser, like
(11:35):
pushing down their feelings andemotions to like, you know,
serve the needs of others. Sothat's where you really want to
try to be in charge, which isbeing the, what I call the
confident leader and guide.
Where you're in charge. You'resetting the container. You're
setting limits, creating thecontainer, but your child has
some freedom, and can, you know,make choices inside of that
(11:56):
container. So it's really abouttaking your child's feelings,
emotions and needs into accountwhile creating that safe
container with limits.
Unknown (12:07):
So, yeah, that's so huge. Yeah,
Colette Fehr (12:09):
you're shifting from, you know, compliance at
any cost control, you willsubmit to My authority, like,
right? I'm the parent, and youwill do what I say, and I'll
make you do it to like you'rethis confident leader and guide.
You're in charge, you're theadult. But this is a complete
(12:30):
reframe of the relationship youhave with a toddler. Can you
give us an example of somethinglike a scenario? What this would
look like, whether it's like atantrum, your child refusing to
do something like, how does thisgo down? And again, I just wish
to God I knew this stuff back inthe day. Yeah, you
Devon Kuntzman (12:49):
know, it's, it's, it's, we've all do the
best with what we have when wehave it. And that is, that is
the truth. And repair is abeautiful thing to have it. You
know, being able to repair therelationship. And what I just
want to say is that, um, let'slike, let's take the example of
hitting. So say your child hitsyou because they're upset. Most
(13:12):
parents would be like, badbehavior, time out, punishment,
no screens, no dessert. Go totime out, you know, whatever,
all the things in reality, whatis your kid learning through
these punishments? They'relearning to be afraid of you.
They're learning to like, notmaybe tell you things for fear
of getting in trouble, but liketaking away dessert or screens
(13:33):
or not going to the park, isn'treally related to the behavior.
And you're sure not teachingyour child what to do next time.
That's the biggest difference.
It's not what punishment Does mychild need to, like, learn their
lesson, it's what skill Does mychild need to learn to be
successful here and do itdifferently. So in this new
model, what we're doing is youmight say something like, I
(13:56):
won't let you hit. It'simportant to set limits, right?
And so you move back from yourchild, you put them down,
something like that. And thenyou can say something like, I
said, it's time to take a bath.
So you do the connection piece.
Say, you said, was time take abath. I told you it was time to
take a bath. And then you hitme. It seems like you don't want
Colette Fehr (14:17):
to take a bath.
You're helping them make senseof what they're trying to
exactly.
Devon Kuntzman (14:21):
You're creating connection and helping them make
sense of it. And then you setthe limit. So you create the
connection, you set the limit.
This is the recipe for effectivediscipline. Create the limit,
or, sorry, create theconnection. Set the limit. So
then you might say, hittinghurts. It's unsafe. I will not
let you hit me. And then you saysomething like, what can you do
when you feel upset and you wantto hit you don't want to go to
(14:45):
the teaching skills piece whenyour child's really upset. So
you may have to wait a littlebit of time, but ideally, once
your child's not upset anymore,you talk about what they can do
next time when they feelfrustrated, when they feel mad,
you. Because we want to teachour child skills, coping skills,
relationship skills,communication skills, not punish
them, and have them alwayslooking outside themselves at
(15:10):
like for an authority figure todraw the line, we want them to
learn how to regulatethemselves. That's what really
success looks like, and that'srequires a different approach,
Laura Bowman (15:24):
but you're also validating emotion, right? Like,
it makes sense, there's timeswhere it's like, I don't want to
take a bath. And, like, it makessense that you wouldn't want to
take a bath,
Devon Kuntzman (15:33):
especially if you're having a fun play. Yeah,
so, and that's
Laura Bowman (15:37):
I didn't get that piece in my generation, like my
parenting, it was sort of like,you're not feeling that, that
that's that doesn't matter.
You're over that.
Colette Fehr (15:44):
But nobody gave a shit about emotions. Like,
right? No, yeah. It's like,you're fine. You're fine. That's
nobody talked about emotions atall.
Laura Bowman (15:54):
Yeah, yeah. So it's a different model,
Devon Kuntzman (15:58):
and it's so important, though, because when
we think about raising anemotionally healthy child,
right? Because you're on theother end of that, like all the
years later, and like thinkingabout relationships, because,
like, parenting is really thefirst relationship your child's
ever going to be in, right? It'skind of like it's the model for
other relationships movingforward.
Colette Fehr (16:21):
Really, it's got a profound impact. I mean, that is
really, that's what we go backto when I do couples therapy, I
do an individual adultattachment interview with each
partner, and we go back, and Ialways explain, it's not about
blaming your parents. I agree weall did the best we could, and
some people were really harmedby some of what happened. And
(16:42):
none of us gets throughparenting perfectly. Every child
will have something they can sayabout you in therapy one day, I
promise you that. But we'relooking at what was modeled. How
did adults respond to youremotions? And I always say
loosely, around 40, maybe even35 if you're older than that,
you just, I just don't getpeople in my office who were
(17:03):
emotionally attuned to meaningthat somebody leaned into their
feelings, validated, connectedwith them in that place. And it
does have an impact, becausethen you don't know how to do
that for yourself, and youcertainly don't know how to do
that for a partner,
Devon Kuntzman (17:19):
yeah, and for a child, and that's why switching
your way of parenting. And Ithink there's so many parents
out there that are like, Okay, Idon't want to parent the way
that maybe I was raised, butthen they go too far the other
direction, and they're like, Idon't know what to do, so I'm
not setting limits because Idon't want to mess them up. Oh,
now my child's crying. Did I gotoo far? Am I wearing them
(17:40):
emotionally, right? It's likethis whole rabbit hole, and
that's why, you know, it can beso challenging, but it's so
important to know that, youknow, just taking feelings,
emotions and needs intoconsideration, even if it's not
perfect, because it doesn't needto be perfect, because in the
imperfect moments in thehumanness is where all the
(18:02):
learning happens. We're allowedto repair the relationship.
We're allowed to learn alongsideour kids, but when we're asked
to re parent ourselves alongsideour toddlers. So it's, it's a
lot of work, right? And so,yeah, it's, it's really a
commitment to to being a cyclebreaker and changing, changing
the direction and the rippleeffect for the future.
Colette Fehr (18:24):
Yes, and you're giving people an actual
solution, like a way to this ishow we can do this, where we're
not creating enabledpermissiveness that's actually
really shooting your child'schances of relational and
functioning in the foot. Can wespeak to that just for a second?
Because I am horrified by what Isee out in the world where kids
(18:47):
are like running the show.
Parents don't say no. The wholefamily system operates out of
the kid kid. I know I sound likean old person, an old crabby
person, but when I am in public,kids are running around
screaming. There's noconsideration. It feels like
there's no adult. And the kidsjust like, what's whatever the
kid wants. And you just look atit and go like, Oh my God, this
(19:09):
cannot be the answer. So whathave? What do you see happening
with that? And how much of aproblem is that?
Devon Kuntzman (19:18):
Yeah, it's super challenging, because there's all
these terms, like positiveparenting, gentle parenting,
that people actuallymisconstrue, right? Because they
don't have like, a hard and fastdefinition. And so then people
are like, misconstruing, like,being gentle, but then they are
like, Okay, I'm gentle withemotions, but then they're also
(19:38):
like, gentle with the limits.
And it's like, oh no, we needlimits. That's why I created
this recipe for effectivediscipline. We need to create
connection where we're takingfeelings, emotions, needs into
account. We need to set limitsand follow through on them,
because that is very healthy.
And we need to teach skills,because that's important for
success later in life. Butthere's a big. Difference
(20:00):
between normalizing allowingtoddlers to take up space in
this world, right? Becauseyou're going to have a toddler
who does not like beingrestrained on an airplane,
because toddlers aredevelopmentally wired to
experiment and explore, and theydo that through movement, and on
an airplane, they can't move. Soyou're going to have toddlers
having a meltdown. So that'simportant to normalize toddlers
(20:22):
taking up space in this worldand with typical toddler
behavior. However, that'sdifferent than, you know, having
kids that are, you know, runningaround with like, zero limits
that don't have, or like, youknow, parents are constantly,
like, bowing to the child'swishes to avoid a tantrum or a
(20:43):
meltdown. And that's thatpermissiveness, that permissive
pushover, which we all go theresometimes, but it's about when
that becomes consistent. Yeah,that that's when it becomes a
problem. Because we might thinkthat we're like saving our kids
emotions, right, because theydidn't get upset, but we're
truly not setting them up forsuccess with emotional
(21:04):
resilience or the relationshipskills that they need to be
successful.
Laura Bowman (21:08):
Let's be like, really real. It did. It takes a
lot of distress tolerance on thebehalf of the parent. You have
to be talking to yourself,patient, and again, I go back
to, like, understanding yourrole, that you're there to be
this, like, steady guide, andthat you're going to be in it
(21:29):
with your kid. So, I mean, justbecause, you know they're not
going to always listen, theycould scream the whole plane
flight. They could try to, like,get to the aisle, yeah, the
whole and you have to experiencethat. I've experienced it too,
and,
Colette Fehr (21:43):
yeah, it's grueling, it's awful. It's so
rough on your nervous system. Iremember flying Charlotte to
Hawaii when she was her hergrandparents and aunt lived
there, and she was maybe 15months old, and it seemed like
she screamed the whole way everyflight, because I forced her to
(22:05):
be in the car seat. I was afraidof turbulence, like causing an
accident, and the stress I feltas a parent between people in
the cabin. We were in firstclass. So you can imagine,
everybody hated me, and theywere you here? Why are you here?
And I didn't blame them. Andthen, like seeing my kids so
(22:26):
distressed. I mean, you canreally have a panic attack in
these moments. Oh, it
Devon Kuntzman (22:32):
is so hard. I mean, that's why this is the
hardest work we'll ever do. Isthat re parenting piece right
alongside it is truly thehardest work we'll ever do. It
won't look perfect, it won't beperfect, and we'll be doing the
rest of our lives, and that'sokay, right? But it is true, and
you're not always going to havethe bandwidth or the emotional
(22:54):
resilience or the frustrationtolerance, and that's okay too.
And so that's where this idea ofrepairing the relationship is so
important, because we are nevergoing to be perfect parents.
We're never going to be robots,and our kids actually don't need
that, because when our kidsexperience challenges in life,
but then there's repair, andthey learn how to navigate it,
(23:17):
it's going to help. But why? Butwhen I think about repair, I
think about it in four steps so,and I actually like to share
that, because repair is morethan just an apology. To me,
it's taking ownership for yourside of the street. Something
like, wow, I felt reallyfrustrated, and I lost control
(23:38):
of myself, and I yelled. Andthen you might say, how was that
for you, or what was yourexperience? So then you also
check in on the impact. That'sthe second step, and you see,
and then you validate whateveryour child says. If you have a
young toddler, one or two, theymight not be able to tell you
that's okay. You just the factthat you're asking, you're
setting up they understand, andyou're setting up that habit for
(24:01):
when they are able to actuallyrespond. And then you can
apologize. You can say, I'mreally sorry I yelled at you.
That's not that was not myintention, and I apologize for
the impact. And then you can dothe fourth step, which I think
is the most important, which isthe redo. Next time this
happens, I'm going to blank.
Next time I feel like this, I'mgoing to blink, because to me,
(24:22):
that's the important part. Isthe intention you're setting to
do it differently. You'restarting to rewire your brain,
and you're practicing it,practice right there, and then
do it, do a redo. And that'swhat really starts to create the
momentum and create the changeand rebuild that trust with your
child. And guess what? When youhave this 567, year old, they're
(24:44):
gonna be like a hi, mom, hi.
Remember you said next time thishappens, you're going to blank,
blank, blank, and that's okay.
You don't have to feelembarrassed about that, like
it's it's part of the humanexperience. It's actually
helpful when your kids. Like,you know, but
Laura Bowman (25:00):
it also models for your child how to repair as well
and take responsibility andbegin. It's a beautiful
opportunity. Yeah, it's like toiterate on their relationship so
seamlessly, is you modeling that
Devon Kuntzman (25:14):
it's, it's so important that that's the
relationship skills. Like, howcool is it that we don't have to
be perfect, and we don't have toknow all the answers, and we can
still be teaching those skills,as long as we're willing to be
human and vulnerable, which is abig ask. It takes
Colette Fehr (25:29):
practice, yeah, but so important, and I love
that we're in this model youhave. We're teaching kids how to
cope, because that is the bigmissing piece for people who
grew up with this old schoolparenting, right? This like
authoritarian and at times, alot of what I hear from people
that used to be normalized wasdownright abusive, whether they
(25:52):
define it that way or not,physically, emotionally
horrible. Some of the stuff thatwent on, you know, even my own
father, who had really loving,great parents, and it was born
in the 40s, you know, justcaveat, you know, some of the
stuff, he was put on a train andsent to sleep away camp, out of
New York City, out of Harlem atfive years old, and sent to camp
(26:14):
for two and a half months.
Didn't see his parents. Andthose were, you know, that was
not, at the time, thought to benow we understand from an
attachment perspective like thatis super fucked up on every
level, so we've come a long way.
But I think the fact that notonly are we being human with our
kids and we're teaching them,we're really helping them learn
(26:36):
to cope with their own emotionsand to find constructive ways of
dealing with these things fromthe youngest age, instead of
waiting till somebody's 45 andthey lose their temper and their
marriage and they don't know howto handle that frustration,
you're teaching them from thebeginning like we're baking it
in,
Devon Kuntzman (26:56):
yeah, I mean, and it's not going to be it's
not going to be perfect, Butwe're giving kids like these
skills early on, and the abilityfor them to practice them early
on is going to make such a hugedifference. Because, you know,
as we all know, our brains haveneuroplasticity. You know, our
brains can change. We can learnnew things, new habits, which is
beautiful and amazing. But ofcourse, it's easier in the first
(27:19):
five years of life than it islater on, because all those
neuro pathways and connectionsare forming for the first time.
Colette Fehr (27:25):
Get it on the first round. I
Laura Bowman (27:27):
think we're getting better. We're getting
better at teaching this stuff. Ithe parenting advice is getting
better, even from my like, whenI was raising kids. I mean, what
do you what is the common thingyou see? Or do you see? Like the
the clash between generations.
Like, I would say, in the nextfive to 10 years, I'll probably
be a grandmother. Like, what it,what is, what is the mismatch
(27:48):
between the generations?
Devon Kuntzman (27:52):
Well, I think, like, one thing that is
happening is, like, this idea ofis like, well, if I was so bad,
then, you know, so it's a lot oflike grandparents, like feeling
almost attacked because, likethings have changed, and feeling
like defensive about how theyparented, right? And, gosh, my
(28:13):
heart goes out because, likeeveryone, as I, as I already
said, everyone does the bestwith what they have in that
moment, and that is nothing tobe ashamed about, right? And so,
like, I just think that that'sthat's challenging as like, the
times have changed to, like,kind of be faced with, like, oh
gosh, maybe I could have donethis differently, or could have
(28:35):
done this better, but, you know,you can't spend your life
looking through the rear viewmirror, as I call it, right? And
what it coulda shoulda land,right? You gotta, like, look out
the the windshield at thehorizon. And so I think that's
just one of the things to likethat comes up a lot. And then I
just think, like, this otheridea of, like, the still, this
(28:56):
idea of, like, control versusbeing in charge. It's like, oh,
you need to get control of yourchild where more so it's saying
something like, I'm I'muncomfortable with my grandson
jumping on the couch. That'sreally what I think like, maybe
a grandparent wants to, like,say in that moment, but then it
(29:18):
becomes like, you need tocontrol your child. No, he's a
toddler. He, you know, I'm notgoing to, you know. And so it
becomes like this thing where,so I think it's hard, because
actually, everyone wants to getto the same goal, but they maybe
don't have a shared language toget to the same goal. Because in
the end, like, Yeah, we shouldset a limit about, you know, a
kid jumping on the couch. Youknow, everyone can agree that
(29:40):
kids probably shouldn't bejumping on the couch. It's not
good for the couch. They couldfall off. Blah, blah, blah, but
it's about how to have, like, ashared common language, or how
to, like, talk about a sharedgoal. And I think sometimes that
gets
Colette Fehr (29:53):
lost. Yeah, yeah, no, I'm just thinking about it,
right. You're You're right. Wehave to the key. Is the parent
does need to be in charge. We doneed to set limits, but we need
to find a way to connect thebehavior that's happening with
what else can you do? What's ourcommon goal here, right? Really
(30:13):
teaching and guiding the childto learn experientially for
themselves. And I think asgrandparents, you know, going
into grandparent land,hopefully, for any of you
listening who are more likeLaura and I, which I'm
definitely not ready to be agrandparent yet, just because I
don't think my kids should beparents yet, I want them to
(30:34):
enjoy their their 20s for alittle longer. But it's it'll
come soon, and that we can also,even if we didn't do it all, we
did it the best we could, orwhatever. I mean, we, when my
kids were little, there weren'teven screens. You had a TV.
There was no, yeah. I mean, mykids were born in 2001 and 2003
we had the wiggles. Yeah, it wasa very, exactly, a very, and
(30:57):
whatever, those, maybe thoseTeletubbies were out. I can't
remember if that was out, butyeah, but I was playing VCR VHS
tapes of Disney movies. That'show long ago I was doing this
so, but I've already acceptedthat I made a lot of mistakes,
and I went through a divorcewhen my kids were toddlers, and
(31:18):
so there was a lot pressing downon me to amplify my stress and
make my bandwidth that muchless. But I can be supporting my
kids when they have their kidswith, first of all, respecting
their autonomy to raise theirkids as they see fit, because I
think that's really important.
And also having this approachwhen I'm watching the kids or,
(31:39):
you know, they come to stay withme, or I'm out with them to
lunch, and it's not appropriateto run around the restaurant
screaming, because you'reimpacting other diners that, you
know, I can take this, make theconnection and set the limit and
help the kid what you're saying,like, what do you want to do?
Like, what can you do whenyou're feeling this way and be
(31:59):
supportive.
Devon Kuntzman (32:04):
And that scenario might mean, I mean,
gosh, so I have a table in mybook of attention span, and so,
you know, a three year old'sattention span. Wait, what is
it? Oh, it's pretty love. It'sunder 10 minutes. Oh, wow, I
thought a three and four yearold. So if we're going to a
restaurant, and a, we have ahungry kid, and B, we're asking
(32:24):
them to sit like our adult likerestaurant experiences are not
set up for toddlers. So what wemight have to do is adjust how
we do things to help our childsucceed, which might mean, you
know, before food comes, likehaving a little, like, pre
appetizer snack already there,or ordering for the child right
(32:45):
away, maybe getting the child upgoing on, like a little, you
know, walk in, like, the lobbyof the restaurant, or something
like, or if I try to sit onpatios with toddlers as much as
possible, or in more informalDining environments, maybe,
like, you know, a brewery orsomething where it's just not
quite as formal. So your kidcan, like, get up and walk
(33:06):
around and stuff, because youmight have to take them on a
little trip come back. You mighthave to pull out a surprise toy
from your bag that they've neverseen before to keep them to re
engage them again. And so it'sall about like, how do we take
their feelings and needs andemotions into account, as well
as, like, you know, our needsand stuff, right? Because you
(33:27):
can't have your toddler runninga muck in a restaurant, and
restaurants are really hard fortoddlers because they're
expected to sit for an hour anda half when 10 minutes is
already way too much. Yeah, it'sinsane.
Colette Fehr (33:38):
We're setting them up for failure. Okay, I have a
question too, before we wrap up,do you take any kind of stance,
or what's your view, even if youdon't on technology limits with
technology, what all of thisscreen time is doing to kids
brains?
Devon Kuntzman (33:53):
Yes, I love this question, and I have a really
great chapter in my book thatcovers everything screen time.
It's actually a little bitlonger of a chapter, because
there's a lot of research totalk about. Talk about a lot of
research in there. Talk about alot of things. And really what I
want parents to do is to createhealthy habits around screens.
(34:13):
And you need to take your uniquechild in their development into
account, so that it might mean,you know, you have a child who's
very sensitive to screen time,and they're going to do better
without screen time, butregardless, you should stay
within the limits of what'srecommended, because we know
that excessive screen timeperiod is very bad for
(34:35):
development at this age, less ismore when it comes to screen
time, and you need to know yourown child's impact of screens
and their threshold, becausescreens oftentimes activate the
reward pathways in the brain,releases dopamine, makes them
addictive. So if you're going togive screen time to a young
(34:57):
child, the type of screen youuse. Life and what you have your
child watch matters because itcan increase the addictive
qualities in the dopamine ordecrease that. And so I give a
lot of guidance in my book abouthow to actually go through and
look at what is low stimulation.
How do you know if a show is lowstimulation and better for your
(35:19):
child's brain. But in the end,we have to create habits that
are supportive for where yourchild is at developmentally and
excessive screen time is alwaysa bad idea.
Laura Bowman (35:32):
You know, what I hear in all this is just like, I
mean, long gone is the day whereit's like, parenting is this
passive process, where, I mean,like, even these parents who,
like, you know, they think theirkids are going to do something
for them, emotionally like, ohmy god, I have something that's
going to love me or, and, andit's just, it's like, parenting
(35:52):
is a really intensive job. It'semotionally demanding. There's a
lot to learn. You're always astudent, and I hope that people
are going into parenting moreintentionally. I feel like they
are,
Devon Kuntzman (36:08):
yeah, and just knowing it's not a one size fits
all approach, right? I thinkthat's like, the other thing I
hear you saying is, like, it'snot just the one size fits all
approach, and it's it'sphysically grueling as well
these early years, and a lot oftoddler parents have a toddler
and a baby. They're have atoddler and they're postpartum,
or they're pregnant, and it'stough. It is tough. So you've
(36:31):
really gotta go easy on yourselfand just know that all of these
moments where you're feeling asense of urgency, like you have
to have it all figured out rightnow, or you have to respond
right now. That's your stressresponse trying to trick you
into reacting, and that it'smore about creating that
physical safety and emotionalsafety and then responding.
(36:52):
Because if your child isphysically safe, you respond
right now, or you respond infive minutes or 10 minutes, 15
minutes, it doesn't matterthey're physically safe. No
one's going to the hospital.
It's going to be okay. Take timeto ground yourself, get out of
that urgency so you can thinkclearly. Because if you're on
your own emotional rollercoaster, you're not going to be
able to think clearly. And so Ithink that that's like, just a
(37:12):
really important thing is like,when you start feeling that
sense of urgency bubble up, it'sa signal to slow down
Laura Bowman (37:21):
and have tons of self compassion like, especially
like and not all kids. And Ihave three kids, and every one
of them needs differentparenting, and some kids are
really highly demanding andreally push parents to the edge.
So it's like having a ton ofself compassion for how hard and
grueling it can be is. I mean,we talk about that all the time
(37:42):
in pretty much every challengethat we face. But I think
parenting is a huge place whereself compassion has to come in,
because that critic of like,you're not doing it right, other
women are doing it better. Weknow it connect, yeah,
Colette Fehr (37:57):
yeah, or the fear that you're going to somehow
damage your child. I'll justtell one quick little funny
tidbit before we wrap up thatI'm thinking of and I'll out
myself. You can all judge me.
Feel free. It's okay. I canhandle it. My younger daughter,
Curran, who is an amazing humanboth of my daughters, of course,
but I have two daughters withvery strong personalities, not
that I wonder where they gotthat from. And one day, I was at
(38:19):
my wit's end with them. Theywere fighting in the back seat,
in their car seats. They're justover two years apart, and I was
trying to pump gas. I don'tremember what was happening, but
I was starting to lose it. And Iwas never spanked as a kid, and
I was not a spanker, but I gotto a point where I couldn't get
them to do what I wanted, orshut the hell up, or whatever it
(38:40):
was. And so I said, current, I'mgonna spank you. And I told her
I was gonna spank her, and thespanking wasn't hard, but I gave
her like what felt it feltshocking to me, because I'm not
a spanker. I was just sodesperate. And she looked at me,
she was three years old, and shesaid, Is that the best you can
do? And I was like, Holy shit, Iam screwed with this kid. She is
(39:03):
gonna be a wild child. Sheactually ended up being she was
so hard as a toddler, but shewas really easy later in life.
But I thought, Oh my God. Like,here I was so guilt ridden and
desperate, and I thought, I'mspanking my child. And she just
looked at me steely eyed, andwas like, Is that the best you
can do? That's hilarious. Iknow, I know we laugh about it
(39:25):
to this day, so I agree. I thinkwe've got to have a lot of grace
for ourselves the way weparented, the way we were
parented, the way we're going tograndparent. And it does sound
like we're doing a lot better,though, in this generation, with
being intentional and aware ofthe impact we have.
Devon Kuntzman (39:44):
Absolutely Yep, it's just all just remember the
the recipe for effectivediscipline that we need to
create connection and teachskills just as much as we need
to set limits and follow throughon them, that they all work
together to create thatdevelopmentally smart, healthy
discipline.
Colette Fehr (39:59):
That's it. It.
That's a great takeaway. AndDevin, before you go tell
everybody where they can findyou, I know you have huge social
media presence where they canget your book, because your book
is out now. It just launchedyesterday. So let everyone know
how they can find you andconnect with you and get the
book
Devon Kuntzman (40:15):
absolutely so you can find my book on Amazon,
Target, Walmart, Barnes andNoble, all the normal places you
might get your book or you cango to transforming
toddlerhood.com. Backslash book,and my website and and my
Instagram are all transformingtoddlerhood. I kept it easy. You
just put transformingtoddlerhood in and you'll find
me everywhere,
Colette Fehr (40:35):
wonderful. And I'm so excited for all of our
listeners to get a hold of yourbook. I mean, I think even if
you're not in this phase, thisis fascinating stuff, and it's
so interesting to see how muchit's changed. So everyone go
grab a copy of Devon's book andcheck her out. I'm sure you're
gonna see her all over the mediathis week, as she's promoting
(40:56):
the book too. And we reallyappreciate your time and sharing
your knowledge with us today.
Thanks for being here. Thank youso much for having me. It was
really fun, and we'll have allthe links to everything in our
show notes as well. We're sograteful to you guys for
listening to another episode ofinsights from the couch, and
hope you got some great insightsfrom our couch today. We'll see
you next time.
Unknown (41:17):
Bye guys. You.
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com