Episode Transcript
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Ticktoo. It's Ken Dashallow's Beatle Revolution, Bunk two Thief all on the can,
dash Out Q one O four pointthree New York's classic rock for Beatle
fans and music fans and an oldfriend of ours. It's one of the
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great singer songwriters that we know,and we know him from crazy Mark Hudson
and working with us so many times. Gary Burr is here. Welcome back,
Eric, I Ken, great tobe here, same here, and
you brought your buddy Mark Mirando withus. Hey, all right, we
travel as a pair. I canyou have to be you're a couple,
a couple of what, a coupleof what? So? Uh? This
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is this amazing book that Gary wrote, Reunion, a rock and roll fairy
tale. I think you can guessby the word perhaps this is Breakfast the
Beatles what we're talking about. Butfirst I have to point out as a
singer, as a songwriter Nashville based, if you had how many songs do
you think you've written in your lifetime? Oh, my god, ridiculous ballpark
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thing? Yeah, I don't know, fifteen hundred two thousand. I mean,
there was a time when I firstgot to Nashville, when I was
writing probably three songs a day.Wow, you know, you know it's
the thing is the volume to beable to put that out in any kind
of quality. So we're recording thison Paul McCartney's birthday. And what I
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like to do is like I lookat it. What if he were a
ballplayer, you know, and throughhis career he's had six hundred and ninety
seven songs that charted. How isthat possible that? How is it possible
to get a number like that?Oh? That's like DiMaggio's hit streak.
It will never be matched. Rightagain, Right, that's Dmaggio and Cy
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Young together. Yeah. Beatles fact, between sixty two and seventy, the
eight years that they recorded, theyreleased two hundred and twenty one individual tracks
on nineteen albums, from Love MeDue to Eye Me Mine Again. Numbers
are so young, you know whenyou think of bands arguing for days,
and you know, it took useight months to record an album, and
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these guys were knocking it out inthe In the it was the Eight Days
a Week movie about them live,there's a moment in it that kind of
got glossed over when George Martin said, I met with that manager Brian Epstein,
and we decided on a schedule thatwe would release a hit single every
three months and we record a newalbum every six months. And we agreed
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on it, and that was ourschedule. And I want to wait.
Stop the movie. The producer andthe manager decided you'll release a hit album
every six months. You told theband that and they said, yeah,
good, what what? I'm sorry. It's like that Seinfeld episode where Kramer
promises the kid that Paul O'Neill willhit two home runs. You promised him
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what home runs are hard? Andyou told him too. I mean,
it's a phenomenon that the reason theBeatles, to quote Dave Grohler, the
greatest band of our lifetime at anytime, is that here we are in
twenty twenty four, we're still talkingabout them. Gary Burr wrote this book
about them, and it's an unendingthing. And Paul McCartney's announced more dates
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as he's going out for a Europeanleg of the tour. I just saw
the Stones a couple of weeks ago. They killed it. They weren't good
for their age, they killed it. Absolutely amazing. Classic rock doesn't stop,
and it's a blue unicorn. Everygeneration loves the music they grew up
with. That's how it should be, but for to last through the next
generation, and now the third generation, and now we're entering the fourth generation.
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And it's not people my age listeningto Q one or four point three.
Most of the listeners are half myage. And I didn't get much
younger and handsomer through the year.So I don't think it's my it's not
my boyish charisma. It's the dunes, it's the music. I was in
the studio with Ringo one day andhe was we were leaning against the wall
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and he was looking at a paperand the paper had a picture from the
past of him and George at thePeppermint Lounge. You know, these young
kids in this picture. And helooked at it, and he looked at
me and he said, if youhad told me back then that I would
still have to talk about all thisand be in the middle of all this
fifty years later, I would havenever done it. And then he stopped
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and he looked out the window athis beautiful estate with these rolling hills and
this giant mansion of a house,and then he looked at me with a
little smile. What, yeah,I would so you know, Gary and
Mark Hutson would ringoing the roundheads,and I love the work he did.
The songs were great. Those recordswere some of his best records. In
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my humble opinion, it was justa great group of people of great synergy
and me just as a music fan, not as somebody who knows you.
Those are some of the best recordshe ever made because the songwriting and the
energy of it, and it soundedright, you know, as what was
it? Mark Cutson said, Paulcame in to sing on one of them,
to sing some harmony, and Paulsaid, sounds beatily and bring us.
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I told him, I told himit sounds beatily. Were you there
for this? And he said,no, no, ring it's all right,
Yeah you were one. Yeah,I love that. Yeah, And
it was. It was such aeconomical sliding down the hill on a toboggan
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way to make a record. Yougo into the studio in the morning.
He'd walk in, he say,today, I want to write a song.
I came up with this title andI wanted to be kind of like
this, let's write it. We'dwrite it, we'd mess around, we'd
all grab whatever instruments in front ofus. We all play different stuff and
we would write the song and thenwe would all go away. He would
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go away. We would tinker withit. Hudson Bean would put on his
producer hat and he would We wouldtinker, and then we'd all go to
dinner, and then after dinner wewould cut the song. And by the
time we went to bed, uh, we had the basic track of another
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song done. And in the morning, here's track two, track seven,
track eight. Boom boom boom.Put them up on the wall every lyrics
every time we finished the song andwe just watch it go. It was
great. It was he You know, when you work with a beatle and
I'm not a beatle, but thatlegacy will never leave you. You're this
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John, Paul, George and Ringofor as long as they live and their
children. There's this legacy that isMount Rushmore and you have to accept it.
No matter where you run, nomatter where you go, you'll be
a Beatle. Yeah. And II mean I always say that they are
more famous, you know, thanthan the Pope or the president. Are
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recognizable and and what's great is,you know, there's there's the four big
links and then the chain just keepsgoing off into infinity and it's never gonna
hopefully, I doubt it's ever gonnastop. And that's what I love about
my participation is somewhere down that longchain, there's a little tiny link that's
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Arry Burr's part of it. Yeah, where I wrote some songs with him
and did this and did that.It was pretty great. It is great
to be that. The thing aboutthe movie Get Back is watching them create.
And I watched it. I watchit over and over again. Lends
slow motion, but to see weretheir edits? Where were the edits?
And I realized there were no edits. Marc is here looking at me.
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Because you're a musician, you workin the studio, single camera. Somebody
just starts playing something. I mean, Paul is freaking out that John's not
there, and like you said,first instrument is the Hoffner, but he
starts playing it like a guitar andhe's having a many nervous breakdown. Get
Back, get Back, Get backto where you belong here in the studio
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making a Beatles record. Get Back, Get Back, And he's playing.
As he's playing it, you justsee George wander over and Ringo Wanda's over
and Ringo's nodding his head and infront of your eyes, there it is.
That is one of the most amazingmoments that is filled that it was
filmed for posterity of the actual genesisthe germ, the massaging of a song
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that everyone knows. And I don'tthink there's any other song where you just
got to sit and watch it becomethe song song that you love. I
mean, what a gift that wasfor us, at least for one time,
to see, Oh, that's themright, And for every musician who's
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listening to this and saw the movie. Billy Preston walks in the door,
Hey, Billy, hey, sitdown, and he just listens to the
chords and John says, take asolo, and he does. And that
was the you could have that asthe finished product and they just And the
other thing that blows my mind.And again when I say to young pants,
how often do you get together?We try to get together once a
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week. Oh, Jollie, good, good for you. You know you
can't. How do you think theygot When we watch Get Back and there's
a moment they're running down the songfor the first time, the first time
and they get to the end ofa phrase or end of a thing,
and nobody even looks at each otheror nods. They just stop and Ringo
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does a fill but ump bump butdump boom, and they come in on
the next beat and they don't evenlook at him because they know it's there.
It's like like a trapeze family actthat they can do blindfold because when
you jump, you don't even haveto question the other guys there. Because
over and over, at night afternight after night after night after night,
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they did I like what you saidabout I'm sorry, Like what you said
about Paul playing the bass like aguitar and staring off and going get back,
get back, get back. Hewanted him there. They needed songs,
and I loved when George and Ringocame over because they started to kick
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in a little bit. I didn'tknow that. It was nice to hear
that, George, So why don'twe do this? Or why don't we
do that? He really needed Johnto go okay, or wanted John who's
not there. He is angst andanger, and then the genius comes out,
going, well, he's not here, and these guys are sitting here,
so let's do this because they're lovingthis and it kind of changes.
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But you had a good point thatI didn't notice that he was mad almost
was get back here and needed hispartner, even though they wrote separately to
say why don't we do this here? But he wasn't there. I know,
which I think that's that's really thething about George. George has like
thirty songs. John's dealing with heroinwhen he said what he pulls is what
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he have nothing, and Paul hasa heart attack and drops dead. Because
there was never a day in theirlives since they were sixteen that one guy
ever said like you Gary writing threesongs a day. You never walked in
the door and said nothing. Youknow, it'll come when we need it.
Well, you've never said this sincewe're sixteen. But and George is
going, here's this, here's that, here's this, here's that. Yeah.
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Yeah good. But Paul knows Igotta get John back in this band.
And I understand why George went,you know, screw it. Now
John validates it. You know,if John could have walked in, listened
to that and went, ah,that's shite, let's try that. Let's
do something else, until John nodsand goes, oh, that's cool.
Paul's brainchild is not validated, sohe was he was flying without a net,
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without that one person nod in hishead, going oh, and then
throw in one word and then boom, it's a Lennon McCartney song and Paul
can breathe a sigh of relief.It was my one of my favorite moments.
I got to ask, I'm like, I can't imagine how hard it
is for you to work with anyother producer or any other songwriter when what
you've had, when there was oneperson whose opinion you trusted, belond anything,
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who could tell you that pot's crap, he is the one part that's
good or yeah, no, youcould use that, and we'd see them
finishing each other's phrase. Somebody wouldwrite a lyric and the other one would
just say the next line, yeahand no it goes like this, or
George came in and you just didit together. And how Paul can look
at a whoever it is, MarkRonson or whoever who's thirty years old or
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forty, and can if he givesyou your opinion, and how do you
not say, who the hell areyou going to tell me anything? You
need somebody when you're a God,you know you need somebody of that weight.
That's the hardest part you've produced,right, yeah, yeah. How
do you tell an artist, youknow, whether they're famous or not.
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How is it that you tell anartist. I don't think you don't say
it's crap, But how do youtell them it's not right? How do
you tell them I don't hear it? Well, first of all, you
hopefully work with you know, workwith people that are talented enough so that
you always hear it. But Imean, you're there to do a job.
You're there. You're not doing themany favors by sugarcoating it or letting
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them get away with less than theirbest effort, you know. I mean
I produced Faith Hill, but shewas very young, so she was certainly
like, show me, teach me, you know, help me learn how
to navigate the studio. And thenthe other extreme, I produced Olivia Newton
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John and she had been produced bya lot of people, so she knows
the drill. She knows that it'sa combination of talents and you need somebody
sitting there objective. And she wasalways like, you know, okay,
if that didn't work, you know, I'm glad you told me let's let's
try it again. It gets itgets easier now because now you have the
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technology where you can basically they cansing it a whole bunch of times,
and you can you can find somethingto to fix any glaring mistakes, you
know, so you can just youknow, sing a whole bunch of takes
of the song. But uh,you know, like working with with the
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you know, Kenny Loggins when whenwe were with the when we were a
band with my wife Georgia Middleman,we were Blue Sky Riders, and we
produced our records and everybody produced theother person's vocals, so we produced Kenny's
vocals. Kenny produced our vocals.And if you're not going to listen,
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then you're not playing the game.And if you're not going to play the
game, why you you know,why you carrying the bat Either you're in
it or you're not right. Soit was it was, uh and on
top of it, I mean certainlywhen we were singing in Kenny Loggin's is
giving us vocal tips like on thisand hear what you could do is blah
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blah blah. I mean, ohmy god, it's Kenny Loggins. So
you're going on you'll try anything.You want to You want to be uh,
you want to be shown, youwant to be taught by somebody that
that is has done it all.But uh, and I've worked with I
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have worked with lots of younger peoplethat no matter what you tell them,
they just do it their way,and after a while you just accept it
and know that they're not going anywhereanywhere in the business with that attitude.
That's sad. But is it isit just youth and arrogance or is it
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insecurity? It's a little of everything, But no, I don't know.
I don't think it's insecurity. Ithink it's youth and arrogance. But also
sometimes you work with a vocalist thatcan't do it. Sometimes you'll be on
a vocal and you go, youknow, the melody at that point is
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ah and go okay, got it, and they get to it and you'll
go, ah, no, it'sah, got it, got it,
got it? Ah, No,try listen A try that, Okay,
roll it A. I've spent hourshours with that, and uh, you
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know, at some point you haveto cut your losses and go, you
know what, I'm starting to likeyour melody better. Otherwise be here for
a year. I'm not going toname names, but I was working with
a famous producer once and we hada very well known singer come in too
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sing the demo of this song andgot to a point where the singer had
to sing something like just to youknow, oh, and the producer just
couldn't get it. Oh no,no, no, and worked on it
for an hour. It was liketwo syllables, and I said, you
know, I gotta go. I'mstarving. I'm gonna go get something to
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eat. I'll be back in aminute. Because I wasn't producing, I
was just observing, and I went, I not only ate. I took
a nap and I came back twohours later and they were still on the
Oh. And when we find whenhe finally got the song, the singer
retired, Wow, she quit thebusiness. Wow. So you can do
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that. You can you can becrazy, or you can look at what
the what's for the common good andyou can say, all right, I'm
not getting this, but pushing forthis is going to wreck this right,
and you got to keep your onthe prize And is a trill at the
end of line three more important thanthis person's ego not being shattered? All
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right, let's take a quick breakand they we're coming back with Gary Burr
and Mark Mirando talking the music business, talking Beatles, talking working with Ringo,
and talking about Gary's new book Reunion, a rock and roll fairy tale,
about how it might have happened ifthere was a Beatles reunion. More
on Ken Dashow's Beatles' Revolution. Rightafter this Ken dash Out Beatles Revolution,
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we are back with Gary Burr andMark Mirando. Guys, thanks for joining
me. Tell him the quick GeorgeJones story. Oh yeah, that was
funny. I produced George Jones.I produced Wow, an album for How
Old is He? It was towardsthe end of his career, and it
was an album that I produced forDisney and it was the best of countries.
By the way, the Whord's GeorgeShones and Disney in the same sentence
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is pretty remarkable, don't you think? Pretty remarkable? And I had him
doing a duet with Kathy Matteya onyou Got a Friend and Me got it,
and he came in to do hispart and he's singing and it's all
great, and I'm thrilled, youknow. And at one point I said,
you know, George, when youget to that line there, can
you like start that? Can youstart that last word like up high and
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then end up down low? Andhe looked at me and goes, oh,
you want me to George Jones itfor you? Yes, it's now
a verb, George Jones it please? Oh man, I just there's another
book about your stories about working inthe music business, about producing. You
know Jack Douglas, who I love, who's his story is fantastic. And
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I said, who's the easiest personto work with? Who's the most difficult?
He goes, oh, easy,answers, easiest person. John Lennon
like what Yeah, like what yousaid, total pro respects the process?
Did he said, did it likethree or four takes? Johnk you want
to come in and sit with itnow, Jackie, pick it out,
you know, whatever you like?He said. Plus, you know,
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if there's something that's great and Imade a mistake, make it louder.
Don't fix it. Make it louder. They'll think I did it on purpose.
I'm going to eat here, hegoes, And doing that was nothing.
Working with him was just nothing,he says. The worst always was
and always will be. Stephen Tylersitting over my shoulder going take the A
from take forty two in the surpriseI want sir from take thirty and he
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goes, he just literally got asmack him or get a guard to throw
him out of the studio. Willyou let me make no? No?
You hear the surprise I want thatscream, he goes, and he just
won't stop playing with it. Hewon't stop scimming around with it. He
said. That drives me nuts becausein the end, it's kind of what
you were saying, it's the feelof the song that'll be right, not
the exact you know, phrase orwhere there is the scream on this beat
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or that. But as a producer, you also have to consider the long
game. Is what you're trying toget worth the damage you're going to do
getting it? Yeah, and that'sthat's it. A lot of politics of
politics that that you know, thatthat make you totally aware of how many
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ways you can you can produce andget what you need. That's what he
said to me. It's sort ofsame thing. Producing isn't about microphones or
you know, or doubling the vocalsor you know, should the horn section
go here? He said, it'sabout working with the egos. Seeing if
you have a band who's in charge, who thinks they're in charge, who
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needs a lot of love because theyfeel left out. It's getting that done.
He was, this is so cruelto do and brilliant. He was
teaching a master class in producing atusc and he gets Jack as this little
impish like little boy grin on hisface, and he said, you know
what the final is? Like whatI bring in a band and they have
to produce a track from the band. Each one has to produce a track.
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I said, okay, fair,He said, I only give the
band one direction. What get intoa fight and quit? Like, oh,
that is so cruel, he goes, because that's the producing not do
you want to use the noyman ordo you want to use the fifty seven?
Can you keep them in the roomlong enough to get a track?
Don Yeah? Yeah, I'm likethat is so cold. I'm like,
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look, it's a masterclass. It'snot about here's how you turn on pro
tools. Yeah. I have achapter in my book about when the Beatles
are in they're older, they're fiftyeight, and they're going to get in
a reunion and they're having a meetingin a boardroom with a big table and
chairs around the table, but atthe head of the table there's a big
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chair. And it was the politicsof them walking in to see who felt
like they should sit in the bigchair. Because they're all sort of worried
that Paul's going to take the reinsand run with it and bring up all
the same you know, trying torun the show, so they're all conscious
of whether he's going to sit inthe chair. George doesn't want the big
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chair, but he also wants tohave a saying who is in the big
chair. It's just really funny thatthat is. That's the politics of a
band. It's one of my favoritescenes in this book Reunion by Gary Burr.
This new book Beetle Fan, andwe've I've been debating this. I
talk with Gary and with Mark.I want to tell you all about the
book, and it's brilliant and youhave to get it Reunion, Gary Barr.
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Every Beatle fan has to get it. But pre sale right now,
you can pre sell. You canpre buy it on Amazon right now.
Reunion. But here's the thing.I always don't want to tell you anything
about it because it's so surprising,it's so beautifully done, and it's written
by somebody who doesn't just love theBeatles, but your history in the music
business and knowing them and working withRingo, the perspective of it, how
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how it would go if this sequenceof events happened, is absolutely spot on.
So I don't want to ruin thesurprise for you guys hearing it,
but that's what it is. There'sa Beatles reunion and Gary, I don't
know how much you want to tellher we should, but I will say
I have to give them one thing. There's a reason John's alive, and
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there's a reason there's a reunion,and if you could imagine the politics of
it, and like what you sayin the book, which is always true.
Had Brian Epstein was dad, youknow, they had two dads.
They had George Martin and Brian Epstein. They were funny, giggly kids who
happened to be musical geniuses. Andthere were child prodigies sort of, and
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they learned, as George always said, there were sponges. I would do
a string arrangement and they just sitthere staring at me, and like you
know, little magpies, they pickit apart, learn how it goes and
the next time they go, hey, what if we do this instead of
that? Every time they're learning curvewas insane. But without Brian Epstein saying
we will do this and we willdo that, and they always respected him
or George, you take that awayonce they try to manage themselves. Let's
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be honest, all hell brokelos andimagine if they've all been a away from
each other. I mean, youknow, George, in my world,
my alternate universe where through a sheerstroke of some fortune, there is a
John Lennon in the world and they'rein their late fifties and they're gonna put
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a reunion together. How do youdo it? In my world? You
know, George hasn't played the guitarin years. He doesn't even have cowses
on his fingers. Do they rememberwhat songs to play? Are they gonna
play post Beatles songs in a Beatlereunion concert? Are are they going to
get along? Is it all gonnacome flooding back? Where does Yoko stand
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in all this? And there's somany I mean, do they remember the
songs? You know? It's like, you know, George as Ringo,
do you remember do you remember anyof the old songs, and Ringo goes,
I remember the good ones, youknow. So it's being that I
have been in a million different bandsand million different ways. I've been in
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bands as a high school kid.I've been in bands in college where I'd
had to commute to rehearsals. I'vebeen. I was the lead singer of
Pure Prairie League, took over forVince Gill. Did you yeah? I
was? And then I was aroundHead, you know, with with Ringo,
and toured the world playing guitar withCarol King and in a band with
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Kenny Loggins in Georgia Blue Sky.Every configuration of a band goes into this
book of when you've got four peoplein a studio listening to a playback going
what the hell did I play there? What? Well? I think you
played a G. It's not aG. What was I thinking? It's
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just it's it's I just so wantedto explore that, and I think I
did. It's so beautifully done.It really is because one real life moment
that almost happened this Saturday Night Livemoment, Paul's with John at the Dakota.
He shows up on his doory,lets him in Yoko's away, so
we're allowed to have Paul in andI assume getting high watching SNL and now
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is the night of all nights.Like every thousand things that happened in their
lives, the perfect moment comes tothe perfect person and that's a night.
Lorden. Michael says, here itis what was it like a five thousand
dollars or something thirty five hundred?You can give ringo less if you want.
And Paul says, let's go downthere. And what let's go down
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there? They were just two stonedor too tired, and that was a
funny idea. But they never gotoff the couch. And I think Paul
said if he remember, he saidJohnson, well what would we play?
And Paul said, what difference doesit make? Yeah, you know what
I have denied or not? Likewe will never not know those We could
play anything, even and play itintentionally, bit whatever we'll it'll be the
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end. That's not the point.Yeah, But in my book, I
get to I get to recreate thatbut actually have it happen in a manner
of speaking. It's beautiful. Sofor pre order, Reunion a rock and
roll fairy tale and it's exactly whatit is for us. You will love
love living this book because it's theworld we want it to be. You
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know, every page in this bookis what our dream is, that that
could have happened. And it's funand it's funny, and I you know,
I've worked on it for about fouryears. And you know, John
said, you know, every timehe's asked about the reunion, I forgot.
This was one time he said,look, if you tell us a
Beatles reunion, will I could proveto you it'll cure cancer. We'll have
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the money to cure cancer. Fine, we'll go to the Grand Canyon and
we'll do a Beatles show and thewhole world will come. And but if
you short of that, you know, what's the point? And he's right,
Unless you tell me it'll be acataclysmic change in the world. But
you kind of set up why thereason why I don't want to give that
away because but the reason why theydo the reunion right is absolutely spot on.
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But it's all oh years down theroad where the edges have worn down
a little bit. Yeah, andsitting in a room, you know in
the book, they sit around andthey look at each other and go,
God, the four of us haven'tbeen in a room together in twenty years,
you know, and yeah, it'spretty uh, it's it was really
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fun to immerse into that world.All right, Let's take a quick break.
And they were coming back with GaryBurr and Mark Miranda talking the music
business, talking Beatles, talking workingwith Ringo, and talking about Gary's new
book Reunion, a rock and rollfairy tale, about how it might have
happened if there was a Beatles reunionmore and Ken dash O's Beatles' Revolution.
(29:41):
Right after this can dash out BeatlesRevolution. We are back with Gary Burr
and Mark Mirando. Guys, thanksfor joining me. And there's a lot
of stuff in the book that overthe last twenty years I've been remembering and
pretending not to listen. Uh huh. I stand in a corner and pretend
to listen to a lot of stuff, but uh, but I remember,
(30:03):
and it all poured out in thebook. I mean the moment on in
McCartney's Last Tour when he does theduet with John Lennon from the movie.
Yeah, and you know, PeterJackson Colls, you know, I've got
the isolated you know track from Johnyou know, doing it if you want.
I've got a feeling and to dothat. I mean, we're we're
in MetLife Stadium and there isn't there'seighty thousand people crying their eyes out.
(30:29):
I mean, that's great, whata great idea, and wow, what
power, what power that's in theend of the movie. No matter what
to me. You know, athree acts story. Movies are in three
Every story's three acts. The thirdact is a triumph because with all the
fighting and the this and Gibb singand Yoko and this, and nobody's listening
to George and he quits and hedoesn't come back, and then he does.
(30:52):
With all of that, the triumphis they did a Beatles concert.
They got to the roof and wegot to see the Beatles, see the
Beatles one last time. But itwas all just concessions. It wasn't where
they wanted to play. George didn'twant to be, the weather was terrible.
It was all just making concessions.And none of the concessions could take
(31:14):
away from the fact that it wasthe four Beatles playing. Yeah, none
of it. Nothing else mattered.It's freezing cold your hand, how you
played the guitar in January? InLondon, I had. That's you know,
when you're around a beatle, it'samazing the questions. You know,
there's so many questions to ask thatthe ones that pop out of your mouth
(31:37):
are always a surprise. But Iremember when all this stuff was going on.
I said to Ringo, what didit sound like up there? And
he said, I could hear everything. It was great. I could hear
everything. I could hear the voices. I could hear the guitars. I
don't know why, but from whereI was sitting, because I never used
to have monitors, I could heareverything. So I loved it. I
(31:59):
mean, how is that? Youknow? You'd think as quickly as they
had to set it up. Hewas lucky to just play watching Paul's ass,
which is which what he always did. But he said, no,
I heard everything. Greg Rawley,who birthday recently told me the story when
he was touring with Ringo, saidthe only time he ever blew up ever,
we were at Red Rocks and we'redoing a sound check and the board
(32:21):
starts smoking. The mixing board.But it's not supposed to write. It's
not supposed to Okay, you're electronicboard is probably not supposed to smoke here.
They do sometimes, but and theyshut it down real quick. What
and the the back house guy says, guys, the monitor just fried.
The whole monitor system just fried.Can't get a replacement. We don't have
(32:44):
monitors for tonight. Well I canmix, I can mix front of house,
but we have no monitors. Andsomebody said it wasn't me, but
you know I remember really somebody said, all right, well we cancel,
and Ringo threw the sticks down andscreamed at them, you can't. We
never cancel a show. We're herebecause we don't have monitors. How are
(33:06):
we gonna hear? He said,We're gonna listen to each other. We're
gonna turn down and we're gonna listento each other. How great is that?
Like when you think of you,you said to Ringo, I can't
I can't hear? How can weplay? Think for a minute before those
words come out of your mouth ofa man who was who didn't miss a
beat at Chase Stadium? Are youthat crippled by technology? What's the answer,
(33:29):
Gary? Yeah? Yeah, theyare so used to in ears.
We're having your wedge. You've neverdone it without in ears or a wedge
so you're you're you don't know whatto do if I just listened to you
sing and play. Yeah, Ringodidn't have monitors till the first All Star
tour and he got up down astage and looked at the drums and looked
at these things and goes, whatare those? Did he really? Yeah,
(33:50):
those are your monitors. I havemonitors. How great is that?
I mean, all of that withoutthat, you know again, paul I
said to him, you know allthe things about the noise at Shay,
You're on the mic, you're sharingthe mic. Could you hear what George
was singing on the same mic?Nothing? You couldn't hear George on the
mic with you? No, youjust heard the one white pink noise scream.
(34:15):
Yeah, and they did it.And when you listen back to the
show they're on. I mean whenI sing, I can tell when I'm
in pitch, I can feel it, you know, singers can feel in
their head also kind of by musclememory when you're on pitch, you know.
But then you add the distraction ofyou know, twenty thousand people screaming
(34:38):
at you. And but that's areally cool story that he just said,
no, no, we're gonna play. Just listen to each other and turn
down. That's great. And asGreg said, it was the greatest show
we ever did on that night,it was the best show I feel just
musically it was the most interesting andthe best show. And like we were
(35:00):
talking before, like do we tellthem let's not have monitors anymore? Like
I don't want now he's mad atus enough, you know, he's mad
at the kids enough. I'm notgoing to say it, he goes,
But absolutely it was the best soundingshow we ever heard. Yeah, Gary
Burr, My Dear Old Friend Reunion, a rock and roll fairy tale now
in Amazon. You have to grabthis. Plus he and Mark Hutson worked
(35:22):
on a song for Billy J.Kramer for this last album with Mark,
Mark, you did this too,and it's one of the most beautiful songs
you could have ever written. Agift you gave someone, Thank you,
Thank you. Isn't that something Icouldn't have done it without you? Yeah?
You know, Mark, Mark Hudsoncame to us and talked about this
(35:43):
opportunity that that Lawrence Jewber was recording, and that meant that Hudson had an
inn and he said we should writehim a song, and then we all
kind of went away, and thenmister Mirando here came and said, I
got it. I got the idea. Did you get the idea about Epstein?
Yeah? I call him and say, how's this? You know,
(36:05):
let's write a song three parts Becausehis wife had passed Ronny, I said,
let's do how I got here typeof thing. Verse about his wife,
first, about Brian. Get thebeatles in there somehow, and get
the audience in there somehow. That'swhy we have that little tip of a
hat and the songs. I've gota secret and that's the do you want
to know? See? And hesaid I like that. So we were
(36:30):
due to be in Nashville together toplay a show, and Mark came and
we said, this is the ideawe have, and we wrote it that
day and demoed it. Because what'sgreat is it's a very country format.
In country, you have a lotof songs where they got the singer starts
out a kid, you know,and then you know, and I and
(36:52):
I pulled the pigtails of the girlnext door, and then the second verse
he's in college and and he getsmarried to the girl next door, and
then you know, you do abridge where you talk about true love,
and then you do a third versewhere the two of them are in a
nursing home and they cough and theydie together. Right. So it's a
tradition of country music to have itbe a temporal progression, you know.
(37:14):
I was like to say, yougot you start out with the guy in
Kansas and you got to get himto Cape Cod by the end of the
song. That's great. And that'swhat we did here. We just we
took the journey. So we tookthe three journeys, very Joseph Campbell of
us the journey, and uh,we put in the things like the mention
of Brian you came from a recordstore, and uh, it was really
(37:36):
fun to write. Did we did? We demo it at the house and
then we called him. That's whenMark said, you know, he called
him. He said, I'm atAbbey Road right now because they had been
recording. Yeah, and we genuflectedand said, well, what can we
do? Can we send it toyou? Well, well we we did.
We genuflect. I thought we genuflectedafter that, right, I thought
before lunch we just perused and andit's funny because he's a so he said,
(38:00):
well, how are you going toget the song to me? You
know, right this is he thinkswe're gonna have to put a two tracks
in the mail. We'll email itto you. And that took three times.
I didn't get it. I didn'tget it, and finally got it.
Played it for he said I cried, which was so sweet, and
we're like, well, that doesn'tmean it's in plays it for Lawrence,
who said I loved it is great. Send me. I'm going to listen
(38:23):
to it again. The next daythey called. They said, it's it's
we're recording it. I sat therewatching them recording it, sitting in the
control room, just absolutely absolutely copsthrilling as it was. But then they
kept our vocal They were, yeah, we sang all the harmonies. But
you were there. My heart ispounding in my chest being there. You
(38:45):
know, I was there for threedays. It never once did I walked
through that gate without col until Igot into your with your friends, and
if thank god, it was withmy dear friends, with Lawrence Chuber and
ability of people I know and love, and that was the only ability to
settle. If it was people Ididn't know, I never would have been
(39:06):
able to relax. But I'm inthis studio watching them singing a song about
Brian in studio to an Abbey Road, and you're thinking, once again,
for the ten thousandth time, thesynergy of the life of this music,
the four guys of Brian, everythingstill comes back. This is home base.
You're back in the house. Youknow. It's just it was a
(39:28):
remarkable, remarkable moment that I'll neverforget. It was it was the right
song, it was the it wasthe right song for the right artist to
be recorded at the right place withthe right people, and it's the single
now. But it's like you saidabout the thread, you know, having
been part of Ringo stuff. Ithink I said, I'm sorry, I'll
(39:50):
do it again, thank you too. It's like you said about being part
of a chain. Yeah, didI say I said thread? No,
It's It's great and we still talkabout it going. I'm going to be
in a book when it mentions Ringosaying song song song band, Gary Burr.
Because I was lucky enough to beon one of the records. Mark
Miranda, what, Yeah, Ialways tell this story. We still talk
(40:15):
about it. I'm sixty nine yearsold. If my mother tapped me on
the shoulder while we were watching.Ed Solomon said, someday you work with
that game. What are you talkingabout? They're in a whole nother,
not just fame. They're from England. I'm living in Hampton, Connecticut,
and there we are. Your motherdrank though, right, yeah she's yeah,
(40:35):
but hey, listen, you knowanyways, we're thrilled and it's Billy
J. And it's part of theBeatles, and it's a thrill and such
a nice just to explain to youwho Brian Epstein was, to him and
to them and to Scylla and toJerry. If you said to Billy J.
Kramer, I think you stink andyour songs are awful, he would
just say, saw you don't likeit? You know, I don't think
the Beatles were much. Well that'syour opinion, isn't it. If you
(41:00):
say Brian Epstein was a bumer,Brian Epstein didn't do anything. You'd be
lucky to get out of there alive. There's nothing. He'll take anything.
But if you insult Brian. Wewere having lunch once at the fest for
Beatle fans with somebody who is ofNIMS. He was part of management I
won't mention who it is. We'rehaving lunch and they were telling stories about
(41:20):
the old days, and this personwho worked with Brian said, look,
I love Brian, but let's behonest. I mean, he gets a
lot of accolades and stuff, butthe guys were so good, that these
boys were so amazing, Really,couldn't any of them have managed them?
Billy threw his knife and forked out, oh, anybody could have. Well,
you were that. How come youdidn't manage them? Why don't you
go to London to bring the tape? And for twenty minutes he dressed this
(41:43):
guy down. And when everybody saidno, why didn't you go back here?
And why didn't you make an assettate? And then why didn't you
bring them here? Why didn't youhandle Neil, he goes, don't you
ever say you could have done itor anybody else could have done it?
And this guy just got smaller andsmaller and said I'm sorry, Billy,
and Billy just nodded and just walkedaway from the table. That's when I
(42:04):
learned who Brian Epstein was. Tothe Billy J. Cramer, that's great.
That does that says a lot aboutBilly J. Kramer, but it
also says a lot about Brian Epstein. Yeah, there's so many young artists
who know the story. Go I'mlooking for my Brian Epstein. I'm looking
for my Brian. If there's anotherone out there, I don't know if
I've ever met him. Brian Epsteintold Billy, you're seventeen years old.
(42:27):
I have to ask your dad's permissionto manage you because you have to get
out of British Rail. Billy seventeen. He's working British Rail, which post
war England, have a job inanything. It's amazing. And he's swinging
a sledgehammer breaking bolts for British Railon engines, locomotives, and for five
days a week, eight hours aday, he's getting paid three pounds and
(42:49):
change, which comes out to abouttwelve dollars a week for real. And
Brian told his father, I'm goingto promise your son fifty pounds a week.
If he makes more than that,he gets to key. But if
he doesn't make fifty pounds, I'llmake the difference myself personally. And Gary
Mark, I do believe that wasthe first and last music manager who ever
(43:09):
said anything like that that was thelast. Gary Burke Mark, thank you
so much for coming by Reunion.It's the dream, the fantasy, the
fairy tale we all want. It'sa beautiful book. Thank you, thank
you Ken, thank you