March 28, 2023 • 59 mins
We've all seen the space-age secret bases in science fiction and blockbuster films, but could a government or corporation really build a secret, permanent deep-sea base? Where would they do it? Why? Join the guys as they dive into (get it?) the murky world of militaries beneath the waves.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Fellow conspiracy realist, we can't wait for you to hear
our latest classic episode honestly behind the curtain that Noel.
This came to us I think at least in part
due to Sequest, remember that TV show Sequest totally with
the talking dolphin and Jonathan Brandes from Never Ending Story
(00:20):
two Ladybugs, it's a star trek in the water. Are
we talking about Sea Lab? Because I DSV that's this
is pretty This was sort of the same vibe. Sea
Lab was like, you know, the cartoon or the adult
swim thing that used like weird old cartoons to make
a kind of send up ah, you know, kind of
sci fi undersea show. But Sea Quest was with Roy
(00:42):
Scheider you'll remember from Jaws Fame kind of got a
reputation for being seafaring and uh yeah, the kind of
team sort of heartthrob of the time, Jonathan Brandes, and
there was a talking dolphin named I can't remember now Darwin.
I think it was named Darwin. Hmm. Well it all
prompted us you ask whether there are any real underwater basis,
(01:05):
Like is there a world government or maybe a world
corporation that's powerful enough to have a secret super villain
lair beneath the waves. Yes, oh wait, maybe we'll find out. Yeah,
listen to the episode. Here we go from UFOs to
psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events.
(01:30):
You can turn back now or learn the stuff they
don't want you to know. Hello, and welcome back to
the show. My name is Matt, my name is Nold.
(01:51):
They call me Ben. We are joined with our super
producer Paul Deckan, Paul Beckons and the house ladies and gentlemen. Paul,
this is this is a new developer and yes, yeah,
I prefer additional Yeah, we've been in beginning the how
stuff works stuff they don't want you to know. Families,
he got made that toilet, they got an art museum. Yeah, definitely.
(02:14):
He's a man of many times. Oh yeah, Duchamp. This
is Dick comp and he's he's a philosopher. He's a
philosopher and filmmaker. He's been around just forever and worked
closely with me on some other shows that we do
with How Stuff Works and an unending source of pre
show banter. Yeah. Yeah, so that's Paul. Paul as Paul,
(02:35):
you are you and that makes this stuff they don't
want you to know. So everybody right in and wish
Paul luck having to deal with us. Yes, please do that.
So we've talked in the past about the world's extensive
network of military bases. These could be publicly acknowledged, These
(02:57):
could be speculated or speculative, or they could be just
rumors on the dark web. Right, Yeah, exactly. The Deep
Underground Military Basis episode still holds a special place in
my heart. And we had an ice Base episode, yeah,
didn't we. Yeah, So this is sort of like this
is like a trilogy. Can we call this the third
(03:18):
part of a trilogy? I think there might even be more.
Can we call it the Base God trilogy? Yes, okay,
if we don't get sued. So just on a personal thing.
I don't talk about personal stuff too much on the show.
But I grew up on a series of military installations,
any of them underwater, not to my knowledge. You know,
they did have pools. He probably got memory wiped. Yeah,
(03:42):
and maybe I did. I was on I was on
a number of US military bases, proven ones, public ones. Today,
the US operates around eight hundred military bases that we
know about, and they're not they're not all the super
nice bases like you would see in South Korea or
(04:05):
in Germany. Right, A lot of them are in places
that are in the grips of tyrannical governments. Right. Yeah,
that's one thing to note here. Many of the United
States military bases, or at least ones that they control,
are not inside the United States. There are in other
countries that they're operating in cooperation with another country. And
(04:27):
if you want to see a very sobering map, I
would highly recommend you check out the any variety of
maps which will show you the number of US military
bases on foreign soil directly surrounding Iran. Yeah, and how
many people would you say, typically does a military base make?
(04:50):
It ranges widely? Yeah, it ranges. It could be it
could be very small, that's an excellent question. It could
be very very small, and it could also be the
size of a city. You know. And in many ways,
some of the larger bases are built so that people
who live there, either as support staff or military officers
(05:10):
or family members, never have to leave the base. They
have multiple schools, multiple shops, they're different restaurants, bars, bowling alleys,
religious buildings. Think about an aircraft carrier that's essentially the
size of a city, with the number of people in
a small city, just roaming around in the international waters.
(05:31):
And it's a base too. I've only been to one.
Actually that's not true. I was born on a military base,
but I don't remember it very well. But in my
hometown of Augusta, Georgia, there's a big one called Fort Gordon,
and the only thing I can really remember about it
is that it has a really big Burger King, nice,
like a plush premium burger King sweet the largest, well,
(05:55):
it depends on how you measure it. But as we're
recording this, the largest military base on US soil is
Fort brag It has a population just under two hundred
and forty thousand people, and that's the like active living
their population, which is huge. This number that we're we're
mentioning here, around eight hundreds scattered across the globe doesn't
(06:19):
really encapsulate everything because it doesn't count the number of
ongoing training or non permanent exercises, some of which can
last indefinitely. Right, So, the way a lot of these
things would work would be a situation where the US
military partners with the military of another nation in Afghanistan
(06:44):
like they're currently doing right, and they train the in
country military members to learn how to use US military tech,
to learn how to use the various strategies and techniques.
And despite being called non permanent, as we've seen that
(07:06):
stuff can become a quagmire and we can have a
de facto functioning military base. These are without a doubt.
I think you'll hear us say this on our earlier
segments of our Base Guide trilogy. These are without a doubt.
Controversial organizations US leadership will claim that these have numerous benefits.
(07:30):
They'll say, we have to have bases in Europe to
protect our European allies, primarily from Russia. Right, no surprise there.
The bases in the Middle East are often touted as
containing Iranian influence, which is kind of a tricky term,
and ensuring the free flow of oil, so there's a
(07:53):
pretty public acknowledgement that that is about ensuring access to resources.
And of course you got bases throughout Asia that a
lot of times would be said as defending US allies
from this rising threat or at least perceived threat from
a military standpoint of China and possibly an unstable North Korea,
which seems to be again every time we make one
(08:15):
of these podcasts, there needs to be more news coming out.
And again, North Korea is a threat that is really
on the radar of at least the president and the
military here in the United States. Yeah, and it's on
the radar of the Western world. It's definitely on the
radar of its patron state China. Yeah, I think, I
(08:36):
think geopolitically it is very much becoming an unsustainable situation
in a flashpoint. These military bases, regardless of which country
owns or runs them, are multifunctional. Their surveillance hubs, they
gather all the intelligence, right, We've seen those. You know,
(08:56):
people will go back and forth with you about what
count is a base, like are the listening centers in
five Eyes? Are they military installations or are they just
a different branch of a base. Regardless of how they
are categorized, Often military bases are home to surveillance hubs.
They may be home to detainment centers where in US
(09:20):
law does not apply as much as it would to citizens,
like the ones where they strap you down to a
chair and make you listen to Jefferson Starship at you know,
one hundred and fifty decibels for days at a time. Yeah,
the good old black sites that happened to me? What? Yeah,
what's why I am the way I am? Oh, it
makes so much sense. The uh the black sites might
(09:43):
be a little bit different because they were hands off
and yeah, exactly technically run by other kind. It's a
black site that exists inside the right, it never happened, okay, Right.
These can also be really important refueling or re equipping spots.
They can be links or vertebrae in the supply chain
(10:05):
of an operation, and of course much more. It is,
as we said, enormously controversial because US military bases a
count as US soil, regardless of the country in which
they're situated. Yeah, I have a birth certificate that says
(10:26):
I am a citizen born abroad because I was born
on an American military base in Germany. Whoa you could
you not ever be a pressent? Like no can be pressed?
I think I think it counts military because because what
then just said about the whole magical soil? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
These are also of course a huge trope in fiction, right,
(10:50):
And whenever we see them in fiction, they're they're never
quite normal, boring basis they're super secret. They don't have
burger kings. They don't. They don't have burgers. Uh, and
they they're often they might if there's a product tie in,
but yeah, they might. But if they do have a
product tie in, then it's going to be better than
the average burger king. Yea true, you have like a
(11:11):
super whopper. They might have an awesome theme song like
see Lab Underneath the Water spoilers. Man, Oh, that's okay.
What's great is, since this is an audio show, I
wish we could tell you friends and neighbors that Matt
just did the most endearing look around after he did
(11:34):
that bit of a jingle. Also, okay, So you know,
when we think of these military bases in fiction, they're
always doing amazing stuff. They're they're pretty much always privy
to technology that's beyond the grasp of the public. Or
we're in a post apocalyptic scenario where they're the last
(11:57):
bastion of humanity but still somehow terrifically flawed. Yeah, there
has to be a reason you're in this extreme place
inside a basse. It's not like you just built that
base there because it was a good idea. So what
are some just been a saved face maybe save basse face.
Oh boy, it's like you're in this extreme place when
(12:18):
you're in this base. Oh wow, I was not just
so now I'm doing the look around. Oh man, I'm
in outer space. I think we I think we all
can't rhyme space with space brou the thing we're all
familiar with, right, Uh is this idea of these enormously
(12:39):
advanced and secretive basses. What are some in fiction that
you all remember? For me, I always think of the
floating basses in superhero or comic fiction like Shield and
the Avengers. I think is so cool. Oh yeah. For me,
it's Austin Powers and Doctor Evil. He had several bases,
(13:01):
some underwater, some in volcanoes. I get confused because we've
been talking about like the ice bases, and you know
the underwater bases, and like now I'm thinking of like
moon bases and stuff with James Bond is what I
think of? Oh yeah, but I actually there isn't exactly
an ice base in James Bond movies. I was like,
surely there absolutely is, but I couldn't there. There was
(13:23):
one kind of from one of the later movies, but
it wasn't really like a secret military installation or like
a I don't know, um, yeah, I don't know, but
that is sort of James Bond movies are the king
of weird bases. True, sure, absolutely remember all your bass
I belong to us? Uh yeah? What was that about? Though?
I think that was about poor translation services? Right? Is
(13:45):
that where it goes back to? And then there's also
a very interesting subgenre right in fiction where there are
underwater research facilities. Oh the abyss? Yeah you remember the abyss? Yeah?
There was also swear. There was fear. I think what
in particular Deep Blue Sea? Do you guys remember that? Yeah?
(14:07):
Got evil Shark? Yeah was that? Do not spoil Blue
Sea for the listeners of this show. Okay, they need
to watch that movie. Okay, absolutely. Perhaps a better word
is experience that. My head's like a Sharks fan. Nobody
that was there was like llo cool j that was
the Deep Blue theme, Deep Blue Sea theme, God memories.
(14:32):
It's all good. So but here's the big question. What's that?
Could any of these things that are represented in Hollywood
represented you know, in animation, could any of these be
actually real? We didn't even talk about sequest we didn't.
I'm a Sea Lab See Lab. Yeah, well I mentioned
it right, but this is a call back to your
sort of like yeah and see like Seela, they had
(14:53):
all those pods that were built up down there. It
was really interesting. But that show was making fun of
like an absurdly common trope, whether it's like you know,
sequest or the James Bond thing or any of like
the abyss all that stuff, and you know, it's this
sense that like this is where the scientists like do
their dirty work. Yeah, did you work on Sea Lab? Hey,
(15:14):
write to us, let us know, just tell us the
secrets of the show because we love it. I love it, okay.
And the most immediate example of a secret base in
a weird environment, I feel like we have to give
it an honorable mention is Area fifty one, absolutely totally,
because it wasn't you know, it wasn't officially even acknowledge
(15:36):
until twenty thirteen, just four years ago, and that was
via some declassified documents from the National Security Archive. So
Area fifty one, at least officially is was located in
a remote part of the Nevada Desert where the testing
of highly classified aircraft was able to take place, you know,
(15:59):
beyond the the prying eyes of the public and at
least relatively relatively sure. And if you want, you can
see a list of over sixty declassified documents on the
site if you just search for the Area fifty one
file NSA archive. So that's some some fun reading material. Oh,
it's great. It goes in all different kinds of aspects,
(16:19):
going into the spy planes, some of the stealth aircraft,
the high velocity aircraft, how they were able to, like
just the testing of it over the years, and what worked,
what didn't, some of the some of the problems that
they ran into with being discovered essentially or reported as UFOs. Yeah,
it's really interesting. Yeah, and I think you add in
(16:40):
our notes, Matt, that the single that that single instance
or that trove of docs could make for its own episode.
Oh yeah, absolutely, And so again honorable mention for Area
fifty one. Aside, could any of this strange stuff out
of fiction be you know real? Yeah? Where does it
(17:01):
get crazy? Is it? It's soon? Right, it's after a
word from our response, Here's where it gets crazy. I
know every time. The US really may have some bases
(17:21):
in strange environments, and we cannot say whether there's anything
permanent on the Moon. No, we just can't say. We're
not saying no, there's nothing on the moon. We just can't.
We don't know. We were very careful with that one.
And the International Space Station or ISSS is more like
a jointly run laboratory. But we know the US and
(17:42):
other countries I'm so cartooniously proud of this have floated.
Oh boy, get it. It's written down right here, folks.
The idea of building bases underwater. I was up too late.
So we know that the US has been experimenting with
concept of undersea habitats since at least the nineteen sixties.
Hey remember that show Sea Lab. It was an actual thing.
(18:06):
You might not remember this. It was called a sea lab. Look,
I think we kind of jumped the sea shark talking
about that one a little too early. But that I'll take.
I'll take the fall for that one, guys, no worries.
But there was Sea Lab one, or just Sea Lab
the original. Then there was two, and Sea Lab three,
the lab in Yeah, there we go. I like that. Yeah.
(18:27):
This was This was a series of experiments meant to
prove the viability of saturation diving and of having humans
living in isolation in small groups for an extended period
of time, which reminds me when we talk about people
stuck in research centers in Antarctica. Do you think they
had any frogmen on staff? I would, I would hope.
(18:50):
So these would have to be very experienced divers, so
I would not be surprised there was. In this political
environment in the sixties, a fellow named CF. Austin of
the China Lake Naval Ordinance Test Station proposed something he
called the rock site concept. Okay, I'm with you. These
(19:11):
would be manned undersea installations that were built into the
rock of the seafloor, which sounds kind of crazy, but
they were already well understood principles used by the mining
industry for decades and decades. So Austin essentially said, why
don't we use this mining technology, these mining techniques and
(19:33):
make large bases anywhere there's suitable bedrock inside the ocean
at any depth. That okay, so I got I got
some issues and some stuff to go in here. So
first of all, we're talking about mining operations where they're
building drills or they're sending drills deep down into the ocean,
and they're having to build infrastructure to maintain those large
(19:56):
pipes and everything that are going down there, and the
pumps and all that stuff. That makes sense. Understand that
that's in the sixties. I'm just trying to wrap my
head around any depth, because there are such issues with creating,
you know, an environment with at pressure and then just
sending people down there. Man, I don't know, I love
(20:18):
that in the sixties, this gentleman, see if Austin and
you know, a whole host of other people thought that
this was a viable idea, And it makes me think,
where are we now if in the sixties we could
have done that. Yeah, you could lower a tunnel boring
machine into a mind shaft or a shaft in the
(20:39):
ocean floor into pieces and then you assemble it inside
the tunnel to make more tunnels. You know, we talked
before about Camp Century in Antarctica, where they built a
tunnel for a small nuclear reactor, which already if you
are uncomfortable with the ocean, if you have a fear
(21:00):
of drowning, I think being next door to the nuclear
reactor tunnel is in case and ice no less. Yeah,
is an extra bit of icing on the crippling phobia cake.
You ever tried to, like think about what it would
feel like to drown. Yeah, sucks. Yeah, I mean I think, Matt,
(21:22):
did this just occur to you? Do you not? No?
I just thought about it for the first time, and
I did not. Like. Well, it's like one of those
things where you're like, what would it feel like to
not exist? And so you should I can't wrap your
head around any m it feel like that. Yeah, it
would easier to wrap your head around in a terrifying way.
It feels like it would be an easier way to
go than say, the I guess the opposite would be
burning alive if I had a choice, if I had
(21:45):
to choose one, Yeah, drowned me all day. I'll go
for the Salem witch dust. You guys, go for it.
I'm gonna stay over here on land and breathe an air.
Are we being too more big, Matt? No, it's great.
Our co worker Holly Fry, who we talk about sometimes,
she will not buy a car that doesn't have manual
(22:07):
windows in case she ever, you know, goes off a
bridge in her car and then you know, the windows
don't work and then you can't escape. Yeah. I bought
a specific tool that I keep next to me at
all times, smasher. Yeah, it's a specific with a little
blade to cut the sea. Everything you need. Dang man,
those are good. I want to hang out with you
in the No, you don't. I've got a tiny little
(22:31):
container of seeds and that thing and that's it and
a machete. I'm yeah, that's that tool is a tool
that I strongly recommend everybody keep in their car, along
with a Duffel bag that can sustain you, clothe you,
and feed you for twenty four hours. A go bag,
(22:52):
they call him if you are listening, to show you
probably already know about these things. Well, I'm sorry we
took a turn for the morbid Matt, especially because I'm
going to squeeze him. One side fact that is even
more morbid. Here in the US, we have no idea
how many cars, to Holly Fry's point, have fallen into
(23:14):
lakes only to be discovered years later when whether patterns
change or when the lakes dry up. And there are hundreds,
and they have corpses in them. So I just want
you to think about that next time you drive by
a lake. Drive very carefully, don't be a statistic great
(23:34):
or if you're going to be a statistic, be like
a cool statistic. Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. That's
a great one. I escaped and saved some people. Yeah,
we could have really great hair and pectorals. And I
can lure my body temperature whenever I want, with your mind,
with my mind, one of those Ye have any sense?
I feel like if somebody didn't know Matt and they
(23:56):
just saw him on the street, they would think he
was the type to do that. It would be like
that guy controls his body temperature. Yeah, absolutely all right,
So to escape from the morbidity, let's let's look at
some of the let's play a thought experiment. Okay, if
we were building a permanent undersea base, we'd have some
(24:16):
pretty compelling advantages. If we could pull it off, we'd
have some very high stakes and dangerous obstacles, possible consequences.
Advantages seabed or sea cover, you've got an extra layer
of security. It's inaccessible to conventional forces. Yeah, you can't
just head on down there in a boat or a
(24:38):
plane or a car or anything like that. You have
to have specific gear to get down to that depth. Yeah,
you probably are not able to just jump in and
swim and swim over there. Stupid question, is there like
a limit for how long submarines will staying completely submerged.
I know people will go out on ships for a
long time, but if you're on a sub are you
(24:58):
like underwater like all the time? There are there are limits.
They vary on the class of submarine, but there are.
There are both hard psychological limits and hard resource limits.
What can they just recreate the conditions of like a
sub but like in something that's somehow anchored to the
ocean floor, like whether it's chained to the seafloor or
(25:22):
like like like you're talking about made through some kind
of rock, rock outcropping or something like that. Yeah, that's
the That's one of the most compelling arguments. Because we
know that submarines can already exist at least approximately at
these depths. The big question is whether humans can exist
for an indefinite time there without running out of air
(25:44):
or food or frankly, candidly, I know it's disturbing killing
each other. Yeah, yeah, like a like a John Carpenter
movie type scenario exactly, like a like a bottle episode
of a sitcom gone wrong, you know. And yeah, depending
on where this base is constructed like if it's deep
underground in some kind of cavern or something, you could
(26:06):
escape all kinds of natural disasters, all kinds of weather.
Just one hundred there are hundreds of things you could
get away from just because you're deep inside the earth,
inside the water. This idea is really starting to appeal
to you as an iMac, It really is starting to
appeal to me. However, there are some problems. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
(26:26):
it's enormously expensive, not just to build it, yeah, but
just to keep people alive in it is financially it
is a challenging costs that I cannot fathom fathom yet
it Oh, we also are not sure. We have a
lot of research on the long term effects of SIMII
(26:49):
permanent life in the depths or in isolation, but we
don't have a solid enough case to know what would
happen if we alta base that was supposed to last
for one hundred years, and I would really have to
be in a league of its own, oh boy, And
you would probably have to set it up where personnel
(27:11):
on the base are only there in you know, increments
of time, sure, right, yeah, like on the submarine exactly.
You have to set it up that way. So here's
the other question. Let's say the worst possible thing happens.
Let's say there's super secret undersea military base and it's
somehow doing some sketchy stuff in violation of international law, right,
(27:32):
and everything's humming along quite nicely until a catastrophe occurs.
Maybe a cavern collapses, a submarine that is doc in
there for some reason explodes, there is a fire that
damages any air recycling stuff. Unexpected volcanic activity, unexpected, Oh
that's a great one. Yeah, unexpected volcanic or geothermal activity.
(27:56):
Could the people at the base be saved? And how
because this would still be sort of an off the books, Yeah, structure,
off the book structure and trying to get you know,
depending on how many people you have, they're getting enough
of those people safely to the surface without causing any
of the effects that you get from surfacing too quickly,
(28:17):
or you know, there are so many problems, and yeah,
even if they're in pressure, I guess it would be
a little easier, but just some crazy things to think about.
So with those things in mind, what sort of stuff
would people build or what have they built? And perhaps
most importantly, why why do this. You know, one thing
(28:39):
I was thinking just before the bane of any secret
undersea base is Navy frogmen. I'm telling you those Navy frogmen, Yeah,
riding there human torpedoes. Well, we do know that there
are there are multiple non military experiments with the viability
(29:03):
of life undersea, and the US Navy actually has a
small scale version of a underwater military operation right here
in the good old US of A. It's something that
we had never heard about before. It's called the United
States Navy Acoustic Research Detachment or AARD. Okay, that's a
(29:24):
long one. It's located in Lake penned Oreel in Bayview, Idaho.
And this lake is the largest one in Idaho. It's
also the deepest in the quietest. It has a surface
area of one hundred and forty eight square miles and
the highest depths depths or the lowest depths I guess,
are up to eleven hundred feet and it has an
(29:47):
almost constant surface temperature of thirty nine point five degrees fahrenheit.
And most importantly for this base, most of the shoreline
on this lake is not populated. It consists of mostly
national forests that are owned by the government and there
are a couple little pockets of humanity and civilization that
live there in these little resort areas. But that's it.
(30:09):
So what are they doing? What kind of stuff are
they up to there in Idaho? Well, they are they
are building and testing unmanned, scaled down submarines. That sounds cool, right,
So think about the drone technology that you're aware of
that we've seen in the news with the airplanes, right,
they're doing that with submarines. They're about a quarter the
(30:30):
length of a full size sub and they're testing brand new,
state of the art acoustic technology and probably lots of
other revolutionary tech that we don't know about. And they're
testing them in this lake specifically because it's so quiet
and because it's so calm and there's just no other interference,
so their tests can come out almost pristine. So one
(30:52):
quarter the length of a full size sub would make
that up to eighty eight feet. Yeah, eighty eight feet
is kind of an average ridge for what you would
see there, because you know, the different models of the
submarines vary. And the really cool thing about utilizing these
models rather than full sized submarines in this lake is
that it saves anybody listening, including the four of us,
(31:15):
who is a citizen of the United States, a lot
of money. I think at the time when the article
we were reading for this was written, which is years
and years and years ago, the quote was that they
save billions of dollars in development costs. So I can
only imagine that that's you know, exponentially increased in savings
over time. And at first blush, there doesn't seem to
(31:37):
be anything nefarious about this. This is just a testing
center and they're hoping to save money and probably ultimately
save lives. I mean, yes, on the surface, absolutely true.
But you guys, let's say that you're, you know, an
underwater military scientist. You've been working on your human experiments
(31:58):
in your secret underwater base lab whatever, and you want
to take a little break. What's what's what's a scientist
like that to do for a little respite. Well, I'll
tell you. You go to one of the world's many
underwater hotels, oh buddy, because that's obviously you spend all
your time toiling away in an underwater lab. You want
(32:21):
to go on vacation and in an underwater thing. Well, yeah,
you want to ride to that same feeling that you've had,
you just want to make it more positive. Yeah, exactly, No,
I'm kidding, but there. Yeah, there's this is a thing
underwater hotels. And at first that was the first thing
they popped it into my head where it's like, duh,
cracked it. They've been doing these underwater hotels things and
Dubai and Key West forever. And then I look it
(32:41):
up and it's like a whopping twenty feet below the
ocean surface, and I'm like, that's not nearly as impressive
of what we're talking about. I still stay in one. Oh, sure,
they're cool looking. There's this one called Atlantis at the
Palm and Dubai very opulent. This one in Key West,
the Planet Ocean underwater Hotel straight up looks like c lab.
Look at this who it looks like a series of pods. Definitely,
(33:06):
but it's pretty cool. So maybe we'll take a group
a group vacation to one of those one day, Yes, please,
We'll have a conspiracy adventure all our own, right, Yes.
And just to really quickly jump back over to to
the acoustic the Navy Acoustic Research Detachment. Just to give
some history, we have a quote from an LA Times
(33:28):
article here and It says that the Navy's Acoustic Research
Detachment plays a key role in the quest forever quieter submarines.
It's the only active duty remnant of the former Ferragut
Naval Training Center which was there, and it was established
during World War Two, and in nineteen forty six most
of that center's four thousand acres became a state park,
(33:49):
but they kept along a lot a couple other parts
of this base and they built it out to do
this whole drone submarine testing for the acoustics. And it's
relatively small too, just like twenty two acres, right, yeah,
twenty two acres along the lake's south end, and there's
a resort community of three hundred people near it. So like,
you're not you're not dealing with a ton of boats,
(34:11):
a ton of people on the water, but you are.
If you're walking along the shore, maybe on vacation and
hy you you do have a chance to see remote
control model submarines. They're housed in these sheds built over
the lake. So the models are not armed as far
as we could find. They're not testing weaponry, at least
(34:33):
officially they're not. And one weird thing is that they
have they have people protesting nuclear power there, but it
doesn't have any nuclear facilities. Yeah, that's true. There are
a lot of people thinking that there was a nuclear
facility that was going to be built there. And we'll
get in. There are a lot of rumors and interesting
things going on there at this lake. Lake penned Oriel
(34:56):
or Oriel. Somebody correct me, tell me how to say
it correctly. There was another quotation that you found, Matt,
that I thought was pretty interesting. It says, over the years,
the base's mission has sparked rumors in dark fantasies. Some
locals believe a secret underwater river provides the gateway for
full size subs from the Pacific Ocean about three hundred
(35:18):
miles away. And for cryptid fans, there's one more fun fact.
It makes me smile. Oh yeah, what is it all?
And another legend links the base and a mythical underwater
beast named Pondi. So Pondi if you're listening, big fans,
I mean, I've never heard of Pondi. I'm just a
fan in theory I loved. So here's the deal. Why
(35:38):
I think Pondi exists? This is just my take. So
this thing's been around there's been there's been testing here
since World War Two, right, and you've got kids growing
up there who go on the lake. Now, most of
the testing, they say, occurs in the deepest areas of
the lake, kind of towards the center areas, and at
night when the surface wind speeds are at their lowest,
(35:58):
So most of the acoustic stuff, the boom, all that
kind of stuff is in the water at night when
you know, maybe you're a kid down by the dock,
maybe you jumped in the water for a second and
you're just like, what, pond that's scamp. I can totally
(36:20):
see that. He's got to be like Cecil from the
Beanie and Cecil Show, you know, like a friendly kind
of goofball sea monster who has a little buddy with
with a Beanie hat. You know, that makes sense to me.
That checks out. I think we solve the mystery of PONDI. Right, Yep.
Here's the thing. We're doing this because this is one
(36:41):
of the most publicly acknowledged basis of that type. But
we don't know what else is out there, and it
turns out the United States is not the only player
in this strange underwater game. We'll talk about some of
those other players once we get a quick word from
(37:01):
our sponsor. So it is not just the United States
getting in on the underwater secret base, or maybe not
so secret base, just cool underwater base game. We've also
got China, China, China, yes, the country of China, China, China, China. Like,
(37:31):
we're not making fun of anyone. It's just one of
those words that when you say it enough times, it
starts to lose all meaning. And maybe we are making
fun of someone a little bit more. That's the there's
a real term for that. It's called semantic satiation. Oh God,
suck the joy rat of it. How does that? I
wanted to be mystical. You named the unnamable exactly, I kid,
(37:54):
But for real, there's a base that China plans to build,
and it's real. This isn't made up. This is an
actual thing with a budget, with people, like with their outlines.
There are people working on this right now. It would
be located ten thousand feet below the ocean surface and
it's going to search for valuable mineral deposits and I'm
(38:17):
sure that's all it's going to do. Even though it
is on the coast of the South China Sea, one
of the most heavily disputed areas in the world. Maritime speaking,
what are you implying, then, that there's some ulterior motive
for this underwater clandestine facility. Dare dare I imply such?
(38:37):
I think he's implying. It's multifaceted. China claims its fluid.
It's the China claims severegnity over this huge swath of
ocean in the area, and this causes multiple other countries
in the region no small amount of distress because they
want to be a regional hegemon. And Vietnam is saying, well, hey,
we own part of this, and then the Philippines are saying, hey,
(39:00):
well we own part of it. Pretty much every other
country in the area is saying, calm down, you don't
own the entire sea, and they're saying, I don't want
to get too off topic here, but their argument is
that it is historically Chinese territory, based at least to
some degree on this document written by a fisherman a
(39:23):
long time ago, one to which none of those other countries,
by the way, agreed, And you know they're like, hey,
just like a fisherman, yeah, not like the head fisherman
or one person. I can dig up the I can
dig up some more on that if we want to
explore it. But the problem here is, you know, as
(39:47):
as we saw, they could say it's a mineral scouting
base all the livelong day, and people are still going
to treat it with the same skepticism that you would
treat a country saying we're refining nuclear material just for
power purposes. We're not doing anything else where it, we promise,
(40:11):
even though the steps to refine nuclear material for a
power plant are indistinguishable for a lot for let's just say,
virtually indistinguishable from the refinement needed to make a weapon.
And we have a quote here from the President of
the People's Republic of China, shi Jinping. The deep sea
(40:33):
contains treasures that remain undiscovered and undeveloped, and in order
to obtain these treasures, we have to control key technologies
in getting into the deep sea, discovering the deep sea,
and developing the deep seam. Gonna get that deep sea
action man was Yeah, it was a speech writer paid
(40:54):
by how many times they use the phrase deep sea?
I think, I think perhaps, And we also have a
quote here when we look at it from the US,
and like, how how is the United States viewing this
from a strategic standpoint when you know, we talked when
Ben's mentioning all these different issues, they're going to come up,
you know, in international politics. So a gentleman named Brian
(41:16):
Clark of the Washington Strategic and Budgetary Assessments says, having
this kind of long term inhabited station has not been
attempted this deep, but it certainly is possible. Manned submersibles
have gone to these depths for almost fifty years. The
challenge is operating it for months at a time, which
is the same thing We've been talking about this whole time.
(41:37):
Time and time again, time and undersea time again. Oh
excuse me, deep sea time again. How just let it.
They want to control it, they want to get into it,
they want to discover it, and they want to develop
It's that's true. So how serious is this because we
know that over the decades, numerous militaries have proposed some
(41:59):
pretty cock amy stuff and with varying degrees of seriousness
or intention. Well, we know that, at least from the
perspective of the PRC, from China's perspective, this is a
real thing that is happening. It's part of the five
year economic plan. They were leased in March of twenty sixteen,
(42:20):
and it's ranked as number two on a list of
the government's top one hundred science and technology priorities. You
can imagine if you could gain access to any kind
of mineral deposits that were before this point inaccessible, especially
in large quantities, or if you could get maybe some
rare earth minerals down there, maybe some stuff that's just
(42:40):
been dormant for years and years and years, centuries, millennia,
that could be huge economically for China. And let's go
ahead and up the stakes further because it turns out
that the Chinese government is already operating an underground military
base for naval force is It's called the Yulan Naval Base.
(43:02):
It's built from nuclear submarines. It's on the southern coast
of Hainan Islands, and it's been spooky thing is Yeah,
people outside of the Chinese government learned about this because
other governments intelligence agencies were reporting it. China was just
gonna probably let this one slide. Yeah, dude. According to
(43:27):
the reconnaissance, this place, it's like caverns, right, that's the idea.
It's yeah, caverns where you can store up to twenty
nuclear subs, and it's large enough to accommodate there's a
harbor and the surface. It's large enough to accommodate aircraft
carriers too, which the government is actively building. And I
(43:48):
don't I don't particularly care for it when we hear
alarmism about another country doing things that other countries happen
doing for a while. And I think a lot of people,
a lot of people can agree when I say that. Oftentimes,
at least in the US, some things like this come
(44:10):
up at just the right moment to distract people from
a different issue. China. I wish you guys could see
Noel's face right now, because just like Matt's look around.
Uh no, you dropped it and rejected and then leaned back.
I was the question he face. Emoji Ye I saw it.
(44:32):
Superproducer Tristan communicates exclusively with that emoji. Did we have
We've mentioned that on the air before, We've mentioned that
his emoji game is on point. Yet it is a point,
So we wanted to provide some examples of how this
is actually happening, why it would be important, and the
(44:52):
secrecy surrounding it, because at this point, as we record this,
we have to conclude that it may never be possible
to know exactly how many military installations exist across the surface,
much less under it, but it is almost entirely certain
that they're more on the way, possibly being built now,
(45:13):
possibly with money from your taxes, depend on which country
you live in, and definitely without your knowledge. Oh yeah,
and as you know, our space programs continue to prosper,
especially the private ones who are working with militaries. That
moon base is not far away, you guys, I think
our lifetimes moon base. I would totally live on a
(45:36):
Moon base. I would really. I don't know about you all,
but I'm one of those people who if I got
a one way ticket to space and they're like, yeah,
we're just gonna shoot you off, can't come back, probably
gonna die on the ship, I would be all about it.
I just want to go to sample that famous moon cuisine. Yeah,
so just the temporary like foodie trip freeze freeze dried everything.
(46:00):
M Yeah, it's not just ice cream anymore. They had
moon cheese. Oh no, I hear moon reefried beans are exquisite?
Is that a thing? It has to be that it
comes like it looks like a rice crispy treat. Man,
it's probably what it is. I was so disappointed. I
was so disappointed when I learned the truth about moon
pies that they're just like Manu Factory in Tennessee, just
(46:23):
regular old factory pies. I was not a clever child.
They're just made of like palm oil. So did the
Navy ever actually pursue this concept, this rock site concept
at point sir or elsewhere? We do know there was
nineteen seventy one study that discussed the various methods of
seafloor excavation, but by that point, by the nineteen seventies
(46:47):
in the US, most of that sort of development was classified.
So we don't know exactly what's happening now on the
ocean floor, but we do know it remains the stuff
they don't want you to know. Oh and on a
positive note, of course, we'd be remiss if we didn't
mention there are multiple non military efforts to build sustainable
(47:09):
underwater habitats. And I think it is for pure research
because it would be like living in space in many ways,
you know. So it's not every we're saying, not every
underwater installation is designed to secretly deploy submarines and attack
people exactly. Sometimes it's just about what happens when a
(47:30):
bunch of people living deep underwater start stop being nice
and start being real. Have you seen the episode of
Planet Earth about the deep deep, deep deep deep deep
deep ocean the Abyssil plane. Yeah, dude, Oh my god,
it's like a nightmare escape. Can you imagine open up
your window every morning and there's like an angler fish
out there, just like dangling. It's weird little lure. Hey. Hey,
(47:55):
the only reassuring thing about that part of the planet
is that, due to tremendous pressure, the vast majorios animals
are so tiny. That's the only thing that makes me
feel safe. If they were even a foot longer, it
would be too much lovecraft for me. There's some big
ones down there too, though, So shout out to the
(48:15):
Marine Lab Underwater Laboratory. It's one of the longest serving
seafloor habitats in history. I think it is the longest
serving and that is in Key Largo, Florida. It's been
around since nineteen eighty four. It's a training center too,
if you want to go. Yeah, that's super cool. I
think we also go there instead of going to the
(48:37):
underwater hotel, Let's just go to the marine lab. Let's
do all of them. Okay, if you want to go
to the rock side, because that sounds like a dope
party at the rock side, I just gotta go to
point sir man. Also, it is a dream of mine.
I don't know if any of any of you out
there friends and neighbors have ever done this, but it's
completely possible to travel by cargo ship. Shoot the curl,
(48:58):
that's what I was trying to remember the term for it.
Oh my god, we're all over the place. I love
you guys, you're my friends. Speaking of our dearest friends, though,
holy cow, it's been a minute since we've done it.
Shout Uta. Our first shout out today comes from Jacob.
(49:20):
Jacob says, Hi, Matt Nolan, Ben, I've been listening to
your show for a while now. It's a wonderful way
to help keep me sane while working in a metal shop.
I would like to know if you know what we
know and what we know we don't know about Area
fifty one. Well, hey, we just talked about that, Jacob.
I think we got you covered. I grew up in
southern Nevada and lived there for ten years. My dad
(49:40):
was in the military, relatively high ranking two and still
I heard almost nothing about it other than one of
my friend's dad's worked there but couldn't say what he
was doing. Also, if you read this on air or
on podcast Canned Air, I guess could I get a
birthday shout out for my very special wife Kelsey? Guess
(50:00):
what Kelsey down? Now bound down the shout outs for you, Kelsey.
Happy birthday, Kelsey, and thanks for writing to us. Jacob.
We do have We do have some other I think
we talked about Area fifty one and some earlier episodes too.
It continually comes up, and we have some videos about
(50:22):
it on YouTube that we definitely recommend you check out. Next,
we've got one from Helen. She says, Hey, guys, I
just wanted to say you're awesome. Thanks Helen. We think
you're awesome too. I have never been much into conspiracy,
but I've enjoyed learning from you all. I respect very
deeply that you start with the facts and then and
(50:42):
I say that with quotes, quote fingers, and then talk
about your own opinions. The sign of a great intellectual
is that he can present facts and opinions as separate.
I have been so inspired by or work and look
forward to every episode. I live in Athens. I don't
know if you travel up that way much, but I'd
always have a free place to stay. Oh man, Helen,
that was so nice. I'm kind of embarrassed that I
(51:03):
was the one to read it. I'm blushing all over.
And uh. I love Athens and I think these guys
do too. I lived there for a little while and
and and miss it very much. So yeah, well my
question is, wait, this this email goes on right, What
is she buttering us up for something? Oh man, You're right, man,
there there is more. I was so enraptured by the
(51:27):
compliments being lavished upon us that I didn't even notice
that there was a point to all this. Um. I've
been wanting to request a shout out forever since you
first started them. Yeah, yes, I'm listening that long awesome UM,
but wanted to have a show idea to include. Now
I have two. One the hollow moon. We were just
(51:47):
talking about moon cuisine, spaceship. I just heard this theory
on the History Channel. Yeah, is the moon hollow? And
is it a spaceship. Was it a spaceship? An ancient
relic of an extraterrestrial Yeah, dude, humans get here on
the moon. I'm gonna say, no, Well, we should look
into it, Okay, I guess we can do that, Matt.
(52:07):
The Moon is relatively unexplored. There's that. That's very true.
So it's possible that there are things. It's certain that
there are things there that we are not yet aware of.
It is a very tall milkshake to sip to think
that it could be a wreck of a spacecraft, right,
(52:28):
So that would almost be implying. Oh, I see what
you're saying. If it's all I was thinking, like I said,
I mean, it's like a prop or something that's sort
of like it's like a piece of space scenery. So yeah,
I mean I think it's definitely worth looking into. I
didn't know that the History Channel was looking at that stuff. Yeah,
ancient aliens. Oh that's right. Okay, Well we will. We
(52:49):
will dig in and see if we can give it
to go. Let's see what's out there, because I'd also
be interested in finding out just what what we suspect
is on the Moon but hasn't been discovered yet. You
should check out our sister podcast stuff you miss in
History's two part episode on the Great Moon Hoax, because
if you want some Moon tomfoolery, there's some good stuff
(53:11):
in there, all kinds of wacky ideas that people had
in their heads about what was on the moon. So
check those out from Holly and Tracy, and then Helen
goes on to have a second idea. GMOs. There's been
all sorts of experiments proving they're terrible for you. What's
up with that? Genetically modified organisms proving that's okay. I'm
(53:33):
interested in that because I don't well, I'm more of suggesting, yeah, yeah,
I have. I am not personally familiar with a lot
of studies or experiments pertaining to this. On a personal level,
I will say that I don't see anything wrong with
labeling a food product labeling food is containing GMOs. I
(53:58):
completely don't see why somebody would have a bug on
their bubb kiss about it. But the idea of the studies,
we would really need to look into those, Yeah, to
do an episode on it. The only issue I can
see are plants that are specifically modified to withstand certain
(54:20):
pesticides or insecticides. I can only imagine that that's the
only place that I would be worried, like even at
all about genetically modified or there's issues that are how
I could cause, like superbugs and stuff that I make
that up. No, that's a that's a good point because
we know with large scale agriculture or agribusiness, we know
(54:44):
there's been a trend toward homogeneous, hologenous agricultural products. Like you,
it's very real possibility that as we're recording this, and
if you're listening to this now, the banana as we
know it may be extinct within our lifetimes because it's
essentially just a thing that has been cloned. And this
(55:05):
won't be the first time that humanity lost the most
popular banana, which is why banana flavored candy tastes different
in comparison to the modern banana Cavendish v gross Michelle.
The last thing Helen says is that she has a
book on the subject called Altered Jeans Twisted Truths, and
she says she wait. She says she'd love for us
(55:27):
to have it and drop by the studio if we
wanted it, So please shout me out so much love,
so thanks so much, Helen, and you know, shoot us
an email. Maybe we can we can arrange a visit.
The next shout out goes to Samuel. He wrote us
an email. He says, Hello, I'm an artist and I
want to send a gift to you guys that I
think you may appreciate. But I don't know who are
how to address it so that Matt and Ben and
(55:49):
Noll and Paul will receive it. Can you please tell
me what addressed to send it to? Thank you? Well,
first of all, Samuel, as an artist, good on you.
It is not easy to do that. I hope you
have some kind of inflow of money from the art
that you create. And if not, I hope you are
(56:10):
doing something else fulfilling in your life. That is, you know,
letting you pay rent. God, you're a good guy man. Well, okay, well,
I'm just saying, you know, it's cool that you're creating art,
and especially that you want to send it to us.
I agreed. Our address is everybody write this down. If
you are not scary and you don't want to hurt us,
(56:31):
please write this down. Definitely, no unibommers. I'm okay with
the scary, scary mail right up my alley. I just
bring that up because I started watching the man Hunt series. Yeah,
it's very very good. Well, if you're on a man
hunt for Ben and Mad and Noll, here's where you go.
It's six seven five Ponce de Leon Avenue, northeast Sweet
(56:54):
forty five hundred. That's Atlanta, Georgia, three zero three o E.
And seriously, no creepers. We've got like top notch security
here so you will not make it past the front door.
We've got attack dogs, the sentry guns are online. They
are big time. But also hope that we will come back.
I hope this doesn't come back to bite us. And
(57:17):
this concludes our oh but not our show. As always,
thank you so much for tuning in. You are the
most important part of every episode we do, which means
that we want to hear from you. Do you have
military experience? Have you lived on a submarine? If so,
(57:40):
what do you think about the idea of people spending
extended amounts of time under water? And we say extended,
we mean years. Do you live on a yellow submarine?
Have you been to an octopus's garden in the shade?
Have you seen blue meanies about? If so, please contact
the authorities first, then us and if you have I've
(58:00):
not found some meanings blue or otherwise, or been on
a submarine yellow or otherwise. But you have a suggestion
for our show, a topic you feel that your fellow
listeners would like to hear in the future, please let
us know. You can find Matt, Noel and I on Instagram.
You can find us on our website, Stuff they Don't
Want You to Know. You can find us on Facebook,
(58:21):
where we post a lot of stories that, for some
reason or another don't make it to the air. Yeah
it's correct, and Twitter and all that stuff. But the
best way to contact us, it always has been, it
always will be, write us an email. We are conspiracy
at HowStuffWorks dot com. And that's the end of this
(58:58):
classic episode. If you have any thoughts or questions about
this episode, you can get into contact with us in
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three three stdwy t K. If you don't want to
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We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff they Don't
(59:21):
Want You to Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For
more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcasts,
or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Fellow conspiracy realist, we can't wait for you to hear
our latest classic episode honestly behind the curtain that Noel.
This came to us I think at least in part
due to Sequest, remember that TV show Sequest totally with
the talking dolphin and Jonathan Brandes from Never Ending Story
(00:20):
two Ladybugs, it's a star trek in the water. Are
we talking about Sea Lab? Because I DSV that's this
is pretty This was sort of the same vibe. Sea
Lab was like, you know, the cartoon or the adult
swim thing that used like weird old cartoons to make
a kind of send up ah, you know, kind of
sci fi undersea show. But Sea Quest was with Roy
(00:42):
Scheider you'll remember from Jaws Fame kind of got a
reputation for being seafaring and uh yeah, the kind of
team sort of heartthrob of the time, Jonathan Brandes, and
there was a talking dolphin named I can't remember now Darwin.
I think it was named Darwin. Hmm. Well it all
prompted us you ask whether there are any real underwater basis,
(01:05):
Like is there a world government or maybe a world
corporation that's powerful enough to have a secret super villain
lair beneath the waves. Yes, oh wait, maybe we'll find out. Yeah,
listen to the episode. Here we go from UFOs to
psychic powers and government conspiracies. History is riddled with unexplained events.
(01:30):
You can turn back now or learn the stuff they
don't want you to know. Hello, and welcome back to
the show. My name is Matt, my name is Nold.
(01:51):
They call me Ben. We are joined with our super
producer Paul Deckan, Paul Beckons and the house ladies and gentlemen. Paul,
this is this is a new developer and yes, yeah,
I prefer additional Yeah, we've been in beginning the how
stuff works stuff they don't want you to know. Families,
he got made that toilet, they got an art museum. Yeah, definitely.
(02:14):
He's a man of many times. Oh yeah, Duchamp. This
is Dick comp and he's he's a philosopher. He's a
philosopher and filmmaker. He's been around just forever and worked
closely with me on some other shows that we do
with How Stuff Works and an unending source of pre
show banter. Yeah. Yeah, so that's Paul. Paul as Paul,
(02:35):
you are you and that makes this stuff they don't
want you to know. So everybody right in and wish
Paul luck having to deal with us. Yes, please do that.
So we've talked in the past about the world's extensive
network of military bases. These could be publicly acknowledged, These
(02:57):
could be speculated or speculative, or they could be just
rumors on the dark web. Right, Yeah, exactly. The Deep
Underground Military Basis episode still holds a special place in
my heart. And we had an ice Base episode, yeah,
didn't we. Yeah, So this is sort of like this
is like a trilogy. Can we call this the third
(03:18):
part of a trilogy? I think there might even be more.
Can we call it the Base God trilogy? Yes, okay,
if we don't get sued. So just on a personal thing.
I don't talk about personal stuff too much on the show.
But I grew up on a series of military installations,
any of them underwater, not to my knowledge. You know,
they did have pools. He probably got memory wiped. Yeah,
(03:42):
and maybe I did. I was on I was on
a number of US military bases, proven ones, public ones. Today,
the US operates around eight hundred military bases that we
know about, and they're not they're not all the super
nice bases like you would see in South Korea or
(04:05):
in Germany. Right, A lot of them are in places
that are in the grips of tyrannical governments. Right. Yeah,
that's one thing to note here. Many of the United
States military bases, or at least ones that they control,
are not inside the United States. There are in other
countries that they're operating in cooperation with another country. And
(04:27):
if you want to see a very sobering map, I
would highly recommend you check out the any variety of
maps which will show you the number of US military
bases on foreign soil directly surrounding Iran. Yeah, and how
many people would you say, typically does a military base make?
(04:50):
It ranges widely? Yeah, it ranges. It could be it
could be very small, that's an excellent question. It could
be very very small, and it could also be the
size of a city. You know. And in many ways,
some of the larger bases are built so that people
who live there, either as support staff or military officers
(05:10):
or family members, never have to leave the base. They
have multiple schools, multiple shops, they're different restaurants, bars, bowling alleys,
religious buildings. Think about an aircraft carrier that's essentially the
size of a city, with the number of people in
a small city, just roaming around in the international waters.
(05:31):
And it's a base too. I've only been to one.
Actually that's not true. I was born on a military base,
but I don't remember it very well. But in my
hometown of Augusta, Georgia, there's a big one called Fort Gordon,
and the only thing I can really remember about it
is that it has a really big Burger King, nice,
like a plush premium burger King sweet the largest, well,
(05:55):
it depends on how you measure it. But as we're
recording this, the largest military base on US soil is
Fort brag It has a population just under two hundred
and forty thousand people, and that's the like active living
their population, which is huge. This number that we're we're
mentioning here, around eight hundreds scattered across the globe doesn't
(06:19):
really encapsulate everything because it doesn't count the number of
ongoing training or non permanent exercises, some of which can
last indefinitely. Right, So, the way a lot of these
things would work would be a situation where the US
military partners with the military of another nation in Afghanistan
(06:44):
like they're currently doing right, and they train the in
country military members to learn how to use US military tech,
to learn how to use the various strategies and techniques.
And despite being called non permanent, as we've seen that
(07:06):
stuff can become a quagmire and we can have a
de facto functioning military base. These are without a doubt.
I think you'll hear us say this on our earlier
segments of our Base Guide trilogy. These are without a doubt.
Controversial organizations US leadership will claim that these have numerous benefits.
(07:30):
They'll say, we have to have bases in Europe to
protect our European allies, primarily from Russia. Right, no surprise there.
The bases in the Middle East are often touted as
containing Iranian influence, which is kind of a tricky term,
and ensuring the free flow of oil, so there's a
(07:53):
pretty public acknowledgement that that is about ensuring access to resources.
And of course you got bases throughout Asia that a
lot of times would be said as defending US allies
from this rising threat or at least perceived threat from
a military standpoint of China and possibly an unstable North Korea,
which seems to be again every time we make one
(08:15):
of these podcasts, there needs to be more news coming out.
And again, North Korea is a threat that is really
on the radar of at least the president and the
military here in the United States. Yeah, and it's on
the radar of the Western world. It's definitely on the
radar of its patron state China. Yeah, I think, I
(08:36):
think geopolitically it is very much becoming an unsustainable situation
in a flashpoint. These military bases, regardless of which country
owns or runs them, are multifunctional. Their surveillance hubs, they
gather all the intelligence, right, We've seen those. You know,
(08:56):
people will go back and forth with you about what
count is a base, like are the listening centers in
five Eyes? Are they military installations or are they just
a different branch of a base. Regardless of how they
are categorized, Often military bases are home to surveillance hubs.
They may be home to detainment centers where in US
(09:20):
law does not apply as much as it would to citizens,
like the ones where they strap you down to a
chair and make you listen to Jefferson Starship at you know,
one hundred and fifty decibels for days at a time. Yeah,
the good old black sites that happened to me? What? Yeah,
what's why I am the way I am? Oh, it
makes so much sense. The uh the black sites might
(09:43):
be a little bit different because they were hands off
and yeah, exactly technically run by other kind. It's a
black site that exists inside the right, it never happened, okay, Right.
These can also be really important refueling or re equipping spots.
They can be links or vertebrae in the supply chain
(10:05):
of an operation, and of course much more. It is,
as we said, enormously controversial because US military bases a
count as US soil, regardless of the country in which
they're situated. Yeah, I have a birth certificate that says
(10:26):
I am a citizen born abroad because I was born
on an American military base in Germany. Whoa you could
you not ever be a pressent? Like no can be pressed?
I think I think it counts military because because what
then just said about the whole magical soil? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
These are also of course a huge trope in fiction, right,
(10:50):
And whenever we see them in fiction, they're they're never
quite normal, boring basis they're super secret. They don't have
burger kings. They don't. They don't have burgers. Uh, and
they they're often they might if there's a product tie in,
but yeah, they might. But if they do have a
product tie in, then it's going to be better than
the average burger king. Yea true, you have like a
(11:11):
super whopper. They might have an awesome theme song like
see Lab Underneath the Water spoilers. Man, Oh, that's okay.
What's great is, since this is an audio show, I
wish we could tell you friends and neighbors that Matt
just did the most endearing look around after he did
(11:34):
that bit of a jingle. Also, okay, So you know,
when we think of these military bases in fiction, they're
always doing amazing stuff. They're they're pretty much always privy
to technology that's beyond the grasp of the public. Or
we're in a post apocalyptic scenario where they're the last
(11:57):
bastion of humanity but still somehow terrifically flawed. Yeah, there
has to be a reason you're in this extreme place
inside a basse. It's not like you just built that
base there because it was a good idea. So what
are some just been a saved face maybe save basse face.
Oh boy, it's like you're in this extreme place when
(12:18):
you're in this base. Oh wow, I was not just
so now I'm doing the look around. Oh man, I'm
in outer space. I think we I think we all
can't rhyme space with space brou the thing we're all
familiar with, right, Uh is this idea of these enormously
(12:39):
advanced and secretive basses. What are some in fiction that
you all remember? For me, I always think of the
floating basses in superhero or comic fiction like Shield and
the Avengers. I think is so cool. Oh yeah. For me,
it's Austin Powers and Doctor Evil. He had several bases,
(13:01):
some underwater, some in volcanoes. I get confused because we've
been talking about like the ice bases, and you know
the underwater bases, and like now I'm thinking of like
moon bases and stuff with James Bond is what I
think of? Oh yeah, but I actually there isn't exactly
an ice base in James Bond movies. I was like,
surely there absolutely is, but I couldn't there. There was
(13:23):
one kind of from one of the later movies, but
it wasn't really like a secret military installation or like
a I don't know, um, yeah, I don't know, but
that is sort of James Bond movies are the king
of weird bases. True, sure, absolutely remember all your bass
I belong to us? Uh yeah? What was that about? Though?
I think that was about poor translation services? Right? Is
(13:45):
that where it goes back to? And then there's also
a very interesting subgenre right in fiction where there are
underwater research facilities. Oh the abyss? Yeah you remember the abyss? Yeah?
There was also swear. There was fear. I think what
in particular Deep Blue Sea? Do you guys remember that? Yeah?
(14:07):
Got evil Shark? Yeah was that? Do not spoil Blue
Sea for the listeners of this show. Okay, they need
to watch that movie. Okay, absolutely. Perhaps a better word
is experience that. My head's like a Sharks fan. Nobody
that was there was like llo cool j that was
the Deep Blue theme, Deep Blue Sea theme, God memories.
(14:32):
It's all good. So but here's the big question. What's that?
Could any of these things that are represented in Hollywood
represented you know, in animation, could any of these be
actually real? We didn't even talk about sequest we didn't.
I'm a Sea Lab See Lab. Yeah, well I mentioned
it right, but this is a call back to your
sort of like yeah and see like Seela, they had
(14:53):
all those pods that were built up down there. It
was really interesting. But that show was making fun of
like an absurdly common trope, whether it's like you know,
sequest or the James Bond thing or any of like
the abyss all that stuff, and you know, it's this
sense that like this is where the scientists like do
their dirty work. Yeah, did you work on Sea Lab? Hey,
(15:14):
write to us, let us know, just tell us the
secrets of the show because we love it. I love it, okay.
And the most immediate example of a secret base in
a weird environment, I feel like we have to give
it an honorable mention is Area fifty one, absolutely totally,
because it wasn't you know, it wasn't officially even acknowledge
(15:36):
until twenty thirteen, just four years ago, and that was
via some declassified documents from the National Security Archive. So
Area fifty one, at least officially is was located in
a remote part of the Nevada Desert where the testing
of highly classified aircraft was able to take place, you know,
(15:59):
beyond the the prying eyes of the public and at
least relatively relatively sure. And if you want, you can
see a list of over sixty declassified documents on the
site if you just search for the Area fifty one
file NSA archive. So that's some some fun reading material. Oh,
it's great. It goes in all different kinds of aspects,
(16:19):
going into the spy planes, some of the stealth aircraft,
the high velocity aircraft, how they were able to, like
just the testing of it over the years, and what worked,
what didn't, some of the some of the problems that
they ran into with being discovered essentially or reported as UFOs. Yeah,
it's really interesting. Yeah, and I think you add in
(16:40):
our notes, Matt, that the single that that single instance
or that trove of docs could make for its own episode.
Oh yeah, absolutely, And so again honorable mention for Area
fifty one. Aside, could any of this strange stuff out
of fiction be you know real? Yeah? Where does it
(17:01):
get crazy? Is it? It's soon? Right, it's after a
word from our response, Here's where it gets crazy. I
know every time. The US really may have some bases
(17:21):
in strange environments, and we cannot say whether there's anything
permanent on the Moon. No, we just can't say. We're
not saying no, there's nothing on the moon. We just can't.
We don't know. We were very careful with that one.
And the International Space Station or ISSS is more like
a jointly run laboratory. But we know the US and
(17:42):
other countries I'm so cartooniously proud of this have floated.
Oh boy, get it. It's written down right here, folks.
The idea of building bases underwater. I was up too late.
So we know that the US has been experimenting with
concept of undersea habitats since at least the nineteen sixties.
Hey remember that show Sea Lab. It was an actual thing.
(18:06):
You might not remember this. It was called a sea lab. Look,
I think we kind of jumped the sea shark talking
about that one a little too early. But that I'll take.
I'll take the fall for that one, guys, no worries.
But there was Sea Lab one, or just Sea Lab
the original. Then there was two, and Sea Lab three,
the lab in Yeah, there we go. I like that. Yeah.
(18:27):
This was This was a series of experiments meant to
prove the viability of saturation diving and of having humans
living in isolation in small groups for an extended period
of time, which reminds me when we talk about people
stuck in research centers in Antarctica. Do you think they
had any frogmen on staff? I would, I would hope.
(18:50):
So these would have to be very experienced divers, so
I would not be surprised there was. In this political
environment in the sixties, a fellow named CF. Austin of
the China Lake Naval Ordinance Test Station proposed something he
called the rock site concept. Okay, I'm with you. These
(19:11):
would be manned undersea installations that were built into the
rock of the seafloor, which sounds kind of crazy, but
they were already well understood principles used by the mining
industry for decades and decades. So Austin essentially said, why
don't we use this mining technology, these mining techniques and
(19:33):
make large bases anywhere there's suitable bedrock inside the ocean
at any depth. That okay, so I got I got
some issues and some stuff to go in here. So
first of all, we're talking about mining operations where they're
building drills or they're sending drills deep down into the ocean,
and they're having to build infrastructure to maintain those large
(19:56):
pipes and everything that are going down there, and the
pumps and all that stuff. That makes sense. Understand that
that's in the sixties. I'm just trying to wrap my
head around any depth, because there are such issues with creating,
you know, an environment with at pressure and then just
sending people down there. Man, I don't know, I love
(20:18):
that in the sixties, this gentleman, see if Austin and
you know, a whole host of other people thought that
this was a viable idea, And it makes me think,
where are we now if in the sixties we could
have done that. Yeah, you could lower a tunnel boring
machine into a mind shaft or a shaft in the
(20:39):
ocean floor into pieces and then you assemble it inside
the tunnel to make more tunnels. You know, we talked
before about Camp Century in Antarctica, where they built a
tunnel for a small nuclear reactor, which already if you
are uncomfortable with the ocean, if you have a fear
(21:00):
of drowning, I think being next door to the nuclear
reactor tunnel is in case and ice no less. Yeah,
is an extra bit of icing on the crippling phobia cake.
You ever tried to, like think about what it would
feel like to drown. Yeah, sucks. Yeah, I mean I think, Matt,
(21:22):
did this just occur to you? Do you not? No?
I just thought about it for the first time, and
I did not. Like. Well, it's like one of those
things where you're like, what would it feel like to
not exist? And so you should I can't wrap your
head around any m it feel like that. Yeah, it
would easier to wrap your head around in a terrifying way.
It feels like it would be an easier way to
go than say, the I guess the opposite would be
burning alive if I had a choice, if I had
(21:45):
to choose one, Yeah, drowned me all day. I'll go
for the Salem witch dust. You guys, go for it.
I'm gonna stay over here on land and breathe an air.
Are we being too more big, Matt? No, it's great.
Our co worker Holly Fry, who we talk about sometimes,
she will not buy a car that doesn't have manual
(22:07):
windows in case she ever, you know, goes off a
bridge in her car and then you know, the windows
don't work and then you can't escape. Yeah. I bought
a specific tool that I keep next to me at
all times, smasher. Yeah, it's a specific with a little
blade to cut the sea. Everything you need. Dang man,
those are good. I want to hang out with you
in the No, you don't. I've got a tiny little
(22:31):
container of seeds and that thing and that's it and
a machete. I'm yeah, that's that tool is a tool
that I strongly recommend everybody keep in their car, along
with a Duffel bag that can sustain you, clothe you,
and feed you for twenty four hours. A go bag,
(22:52):
they call him if you are listening, to show you
probably already know about these things. Well, I'm sorry we
took a turn for the morbid Matt, especially because I'm
going to squeeze him. One side fact that is even
more morbid. Here in the US, we have no idea
how many cars, to Holly Fry's point, have fallen into
(23:14):
lakes only to be discovered years later when whether patterns
change or when the lakes dry up. And there are hundreds,
and they have corpses in them. So I just want
you to think about that next time you drive by
a lake. Drive very carefully, don't be a statistic great
(23:34):
or if you're going to be a statistic, be like
a cool statistic. Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. That's
a great one. I escaped and saved some people. Yeah,
we could have really great hair and pectorals. And I
can lure my body temperature whenever I want, with your mind,
with my mind, one of those Ye have any sense?
I feel like if somebody didn't know Matt and they
(23:56):
just saw him on the street, they would think he
was the type to do that. It would be like
that guy controls his body temperature. Yeah, absolutely all right,
So to escape from the morbidity, let's let's look at
some of the let's play a thought experiment. Okay, if
we were building a permanent undersea base, we'd have some
(24:16):
pretty compelling advantages. If we could pull it off, we'd
have some very high stakes and dangerous obstacles, possible consequences.
Advantages seabed or sea cover, you've got an extra layer
of security. It's inaccessible to conventional forces. Yeah, you can't
just head on down there in a boat or a
(24:38):
plane or a car or anything like that. You have
to have specific gear to get down to that depth. Yeah,
you probably are not able to just jump in and
swim and swim over there. Stupid question, is there like
a limit for how long submarines will staying completely submerged.
I know people will go out on ships for a
long time, but if you're on a sub are you
(24:58):
like underwater like all the time? There are there are limits.
They vary on the class of submarine, but there are.
There are both hard psychological limits and hard resource limits.
What can they just recreate the conditions of like a
sub but like in something that's somehow anchored to the
ocean floor, like whether it's chained to the seafloor or
(25:22):
like like like you're talking about made through some kind
of rock, rock outcropping or something like that. Yeah, that's
the That's one of the most compelling arguments. Because we
know that submarines can already exist at least approximately at
these depths. The big question is whether humans can exist
for an indefinite time there without running out of air
(25:44):
or food or frankly, candidly, I know it's disturbing killing
each other. Yeah, yeah, like a like a John Carpenter
movie type scenario exactly, like a like a bottle episode
of a sitcom gone wrong, you know. And yeah, depending
on where this base is constructed like if it's deep
underground in some kind of cavern or something, you could
(26:06):
escape all kinds of natural disasters, all kinds of weather.
Just one hundred there are hundreds of things you could
get away from just because you're deep inside the earth,
inside the water. This idea is really starting to appeal
to you as an iMac, It really is starting to
appeal to me. However, there are some problems. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah,
(26:26):
it's enormously expensive, not just to build it, yeah, but
just to keep people alive in it is financially it
is a challenging costs that I cannot fathom fathom yet
it Oh, we also are not sure. We have a
lot of research on the long term effects of SIMII
(26:49):
permanent life in the depths or in isolation, but we
don't have a solid enough case to know what would
happen if we alta base that was supposed to last
for one hundred years, and I would really have to
be in a league of its own, oh boy, And
you would probably have to set it up where personnel
(27:11):
on the base are only there in you know, increments
of time, sure, right, yeah, like on the submarine exactly.
You have to set it up that way. So here's
the other question. Let's say the worst possible thing happens.
Let's say there's super secret undersea military base and it's
somehow doing some sketchy stuff in violation of international law, right,
(27:32):
and everything's humming along quite nicely until a catastrophe occurs.
Maybe a cavern collapses, a submarine that is doc in
there for some reason explodes, there is a fire that
damages any air recycling stuff. Unexpected volcanic activity, unexpected, Oh
that's a great one. Yeah, unexpected volcanic or geothermal activity.
(27:56):
Could the people at the base be saved? And how
because this would still be sort of an off the books, Yeah, structure,
off the book structure and trying to get you know,
depending on how many people you have, they're getting enough
of those people safely to the surface without causing any
of the effects that you get from surfacing too quickly,
(28:17):
or you know, there are so many problems, and yeah,
even if they're in pressure, I guess it would be
a little easier, but just some crazy things to think about.
So with those things in mind, what sort of stuff
would people build or what have they built? And perhaps
most importantly, why why do this. You know, one thing
(28:39):
I was thinking just before the bane of any secret
undersea base is Navy frogmen. I'm telling you those Navy frogmen, Yeah,
riding there human torpedoes. Well, we do know that there
are there are multiple non military experiments with the viability
(29:03):
of life undersea, and the US Navy actually has a
small scale version of a underwater military operation right here
in the good old US of A. It's something that
we had never heard about before. It's called the United
States Navy Acoustic Research Detachment or AARD. Okay, that's a
(29:24):
long one. It's located in Lake penned Oreel in Bayview, Idaho.
And this lake is the largest one in Idaho. It's
also the deepest in the quietest. It has a surface
area of one hundred and forty eight square miles and
the highest depths depths or the lowest depths I guess,
are up to eleven hundred feet and it has an
(29:47):
almost constant surface temperature of thirty nine point five degrees fahrenheit.
And most importantly for this base, most of the shoreline
on this lake is not populated. It consists of mostly
national forests that are owned by the government and there
are a couple little pockets of humanity and civilization that
live there in these little resort areas. But that's it.
(30:09):
So what are they doing? What kind of stuff are
they up to there in Idaho? Well, they are they
are building and testing unmanned, scaled down submarines. That sounds cool, right,
So think about the drone technology that you're aware of
that we've seen in the news with the airplanes, right,
they're doing that with submarines. They're about a quarter the
(30:30):
length of a full size sub and they're testing brand new,
state of the art acoustic technology and probably lots of
other revolutionary tech that we don't know about. And they're
testing them in this lake specifically because it's so quiet
and because it's so calm and there's just no other interference,
so their tests can come out almost pristine. So one
(30:52):
quarter the length of a full size sub would make
that up to eighty eight feet. Yeah, eighty eight feet
is kind of an average ridge for what you would
see there, because you know, the different models of the
submarines vary. And the really cool thing about utilizing these
models rather than full sized submarines in this lake is
that it saves anybody listening, including the four of us,
(31:15):
who is a citizen of the United States, a lot
of money. I think at the time when the article
we were reading for this was written, which is years
and years and years ago, the quote was that they
save billions of dollars in development costs. So I can
only imagine that that's you know, exponentially increased in savings
over time. And at first blush, there doesn't seem to
(31:37):
be anything nefarious about this. This is just a testing
center and they're hoping to save money and probably ultimately
save lives. I mean, yes, on the surface, absolutely true.
But you guys, let's say that you're, you know, an
underwater military scientist. You've been working on your human experiments
(31:58):
in your secret underwater base lab whatever, and you want
to take a little break. What's what's what's a scientist
like that to do for a little respite. Well, I'll
tell you. You go to one of the world's many
underwater hotels, oh buddy, because that's obviously you spend all
your time toiling away in an underwater lab. You want
(32:21):
to go on vacation and in an underwater thing. Well, yeah,
you want to ride to that same feeling that you've had,
you just want to make it more positive. Yeah, exactly, No,
I'm kidding, but there. Yeah, there's this is a thing
underwater hotels. And at first that was the first thing
they popped it into my head where it's like, duh,
cracked it. They've been doing these underwater hotels things and
Dubai and Key West forever. And then I look it
(32:41):
up and it's like a whopping twenty feet below the
ocean surface, and I'm like, that's not nearly as impressive
of what we're talking about. I still stay in one. Oh, sure,
they're cool looking. There's this one called Atlantis at the
Palm and Dubai very opulent. This one in Key West,
the Planet Ocean underwater Hotel straight up looks like c lab.
Look at this who it looks like a series of pods. Definitely,
(33:06):
but it's pretty cool. So maybe we'll take a group
a group vacation to one of those one day, Yes, please,
We'll have a conspiracy adventure all our own, right, Yes.
And just to really quickly jump back over to to
the acoustic the Navy Acoustic Research Detachment. Just to give
some history, we have a quote from an LA Times
(33:28):
article here and It says that the Navy's Acoustic Research
Detachment plays a key role in the quest forever quieter submarines.
It's the only active duty remnant of the former Ferragut
Naval Training Center which was there, and it was established
during World War Two, and in nineteen forty six most
of that center's four thousand acres became a state park,
(33:49):
but they kept along a lot a couple other parts
of this base and they built it out to do
this whole drone submarine testing for the acoustics. And it's
relatively small too, just like twenty two acres, right, yeah,
twenty two acres along the lake's south end, and there's
a resort community of three hundred people near it. So like,
you're not you're not dealing with a ton of boats,
(34:11):
a ton of people on the water, but you are.
If you're walking along the shore, maybe on vacation and
hy you you do have a chance to see remote
control model submarines. They're housed in these sheds built over
the lake. So the models are not armed as far
as we could find. They're not testing weaponry, at least
(34:33):
officially they're not. And one weird thing is that they
have they have people protesting nuclear power there, but it
doesn't have any nuclear facilities. Yeah, that's true. There are
a lot of people thinking that there was a nuclear
facility that was going to be built there. And we'll
get in. There are a lot of rumors and interesting
things going on there at this lake. Lake penned Oriel
(34:56):
or Oriel. Somebody correct me, tell me how to say
it correctly. There was another quotation that you found, Matt,
that I thought was pretty interesting. It says, over the years,
the base's mission has sparked rumors in dark fantasies. Some
locals believe a secret underwater river provides the gateway for
full size subs from the Pacific Ocean about three hundred
(35:18):
miles away. And for cryptid fans, there's one more fun fact.
It makes me smile. Oh yeah, what is it all?
And another legend links the base and a mythical underwater
beast named Pondi. So Pondi if you're listening, big fans,
I mean, I've never heard of Pondi. I'm just a
fan in theory I loved. So here's the deal. Why
(35:38):
I think Pondi exists? This is just my take. So
this thing's been around there's been there's been testing here
since World War Two, right, and you've got kids growing
up there who go on the lake. Now, most of
the testing, they say, occurs in the deepest areas of
the lake, kind of towards the center areas, and at
night when the surface wind speeds are at their lowest,
(35:58):
So most of the acoustic stuff, the boom, all that
kind of stuff is in the water at night when
you know, maybe you're a kid down by the dock,
maybe you jumped in the water for a second and
you're just like, what, pond that's scamp. I can totally
(36:20):
see that. He's got to be like Cecil from the
Beanie and Cecil Show, you know, like a friendly kind
of goofball sea monster who has a little buddy with
with a Beanie hat. You know, that makes sense to me.
That checks out. I think we solve the mystery of PONDI. Right, Yep.
Here's the thing. We're doing this because this is one
(36:41):
of the most publicly acknowledged basis of that type. But
we don't know what else is out there, and it
turns out the United States is not the only player
in this strange underwater game. We'll talk about some of
those other players once we get a quick word from
(37:01):
our sponsor. So it is not just the United States
getting in on the underwater secret base, or maybe not
so secret base, just cool underwater base game. We've also
got China, China, China, yes, the country of China, China, China, China. Like,
(37:31):
we're not making fun of anyone. It's just one of
those words that when you say it enough times, it
starts to lose all meaning. And maybe we are making
fun of someone a little bit more. That's the there's
a real term for that. It's called semantic satiation. Oh God,
suck the joy rat of it. How does that? I
wanted to be mystical. You named the unnamable exactly, I kid,
(37:54):
But for real, there's a base that China plans to build,
and it's real. This isn't made up. This is an
actual thing with a budget, with people, like with their outlines.
There are people working on this right now. It would
be located ten thousand feet below the ocean surface and
it's going to search for valuable mineral deposits and I'm
(38:17):
sure that's all it's going to do. Even though it
is on the coast of the South China Sea, one
of the most heavily disputed areas in the world. Maritime speaking,
what are you implying, then, that there's some ulterior motive
for this underwater clandestine facility. Dare dare I imply such?
(38:37):
I think he's implying. It's multifaceted. China claims its fluid.
It's the China claims severegnity over this huge swath of
ocean in the area, and this causes multiple other countries
in the region no small amount of distress because they
want to be a regional hegemon. And Vietnam is saying, well, hey,
we own part of this, and then the Philippines are saying, hey,
(39:00):
well we own part of it. Pretty much every other
country in the area is saying, calm down, you don't
own the entire sea, and they're saying, I don't want
to get too off topic here, but their argument is
that it is historically Chinese territory, based at least to
some degree on this document written by a fisherman a
(39:23):
long time ago, one to which none of those other countries,
by the way, agreed, And you know they're like, hey,
just like a fisherman, yeah, not like the head fisherman
or one person. I can dig up the I can
dig up some more on that if we want to
explore it. But the problem here is, you know, as
(39:47):
as we saw, they could say it's a mineral scouting
base all the livelong day, and people are still going
to treat it with the same skepticism that you would
treat a country saying we're refining nuclear material just for
power purposes. We're not doing anything else where it, we promise,
(40:11):
even though the steps to refine nuclear material for a
power plant are indistinguishable for a lot for let's just say,
virtually indistinguishable from the refinement needed to make a weapon.
And we have a quote here from the President of
the People's Republic of China, shi Jinping. The deep sea
(40:33):
contains treasures that remain undiscovered and undeveloped, and in order
to obtain these treasures, we have to control key technologies
in getting into the deep sea, discovering the deep sea,
and developing the deep seam. Gonna get that deep sea
action man was Yeah, it was a speech writer paid
(40:54):
by how many times they use the phrase deep sea?
I think, I think perhaps, And we also have a
quote here when we look at it from the US,
and like, how how is the United States viewing this
from a strategic standpoint when you know, we talked when
Ben's mentioning all these different issues, they're going to come up,
you know, in international politics. So a gentleman named Brian
(41:16):
Clark of the Washington Strategic and Budgetary Assessments says, having
this kind of long term inhabited station has not been
attempted this deep, but it certainly is possible. Manned submersibles
have gone to these depths for almost fifty years. The
challenge is operating it for months at a time, which
is the same thing We've been talking about this whole time.
(41:37):
Time and time again, time and undersea time again. Oh
excuse me, deep sea time again. How just let it.
They want to control it, they want to get into it,
they want to discover it, and they want to develop
It's that's true. So how serious is this because we
know that over the decades, numerous militaries have proposed some
(41:59):
pretty cock amy stuff and with varying degrees of seriousness
or intention. Well, we know that, at least from the
perspective of the PRC, from China's perspective, this is a
real thing that is happening. It's part of the five
year economic plan. They were leased in March of twenty sixteen,
(42:20):
and it's ranked as number two on a list of
the government's top one hundred science and technology priorities. You
can imagine if you could gain access to any kind
of mineral deposits that were before this point inaccessible, especially
in large quantities, or if you could get maybe some
rare earth minerals down there, maybe some stuff that's just
(42:40):
been dormant for years and years and years, centuries, millennia,
that could be huge economically for China. And let's go
ahead and up the stakes further because it turns out
that the Chinese government is already operating an underground military
base for naval force is It's called the Yulan Naval Base.
(43:02):
It's built from nuclear submarines. It's on the southern coast
of Hainan Islands, and it's been spooky thing is Yeah,
people outside of the Chinese government learned about this because
other governments intelligence agencies were reporting it. China was just
gonna probably let this one slide. Yeah, dude. According to
(43:27):
the reconnaissance, this place, it's like caverns, right, that's the idea.
It's yeah, caverns where you can store up to twenty
nuclear subs, and it's large enough to accommodate there's a
harbor and the surface. It's large enough to accommodate aircraft
carriers too, which the government is actively building. And I
(43:48):
don't I don't particularly care for it when we hear
alarmism about another country doing things that other countries happen
doing for a while. And I think a lot of people,
a lot of people can agree when I say that. Oftentimes,
at least in the US, some things like this come
(44:10):
up at just the right moment to distract people from
a different issue. China. I wish you guys could see
Noel's face right now, because just like Matt's look around.
Uh no, you dropped it and rejected and then leaned back.
I was the question he face. Emoji Ye I saw it.
(44:32):
Superproducer Tristan communicates exclusively with that emoji. Did we have
We've mentioned that on the air before, We've mentioned that
his emoji game is on point. Yet it is a point,
So we wanted to provide some examples of how this
is actually happening, why it would be important, and the
(44:52):
secrecy surrounding it, because at this point, as we record this,
we have to conclude that it may never be possible
to know exactly how many military installations exist across the surface,
much less under it, but it is almost entirely certain
that they're more on the way, possibly being built now,
(45:13):
possibly with money from your taxes, depend on which country
you live in, and definitely without your knowledge. Oh yeah,
and as you know, our space programs continue to prosper,
especially the private ones who are working with militaries. That
moon base is not far away, you guys, I think
our lifetimes moon base. I would totally live on a
(45:36):
Moon base. I would really. I don't know about you all,
but I'm one of those people who if I got
a one way ticket to space and they're like, yeah,
we're just gonna shoot you off, can't come back, probably
gonna die on the ship, I would be all about it.
I just want to go to sample that famous moon cuisine. Yeah,
so just the temporary like foodie trip freeze freeze dried everything.
(46:00):
M Yeah, it's not just ice cream anymore. They had
moon cheese. Oh no, I hear moon reefried beans are exquisite?
Is that a thing? It has to be that it
comes like it looks like a rice crispy treat. Man,
it's probably what it is. I was so disappointed. I
was so disappointed when I learned the truth about moon
pies that they're just like Manu Factory in Tennessee, just
(46:23):
regular old factory pies. I was not a clever child.
They're just made of like palm oil. So did the
Navy ever actually pursue this concept, this rock site concept
at point sir or elsewhere? We do know there was
nineteen seventy one study that discussed the various methods of
seafloor excavation, but by that point, by the nineteen seventies
(46:47):
in the US, most of that sort of development was classified.
So we don't know exactly what's happening now on the
ocean floor, but we do know it remains the stuff
they don't want you to know. Oh and on a
positive note, of course, we'd be remiss if we didn't
mention there are multiple non military efforts to build sustainable
(47:09):
underwater habitats. And I think it is for pure research
because it would be like living in space in many ways,
you know. So it's not every we're saying, not every
underwater installation is designed to secretly deploy submarines and attack
people exactly. Sometimes it's just about what happens when a
(47:30):
bunch of people living deep underwater start stop being nice
and start being real. Have you seen the episode of
Planet Earth about the deep deep, deep deep deep deep
deep ocean the Abyssil plane. Yeah, dude, Oh my god,
it's like a nightmare escape. Can you imagine open up
your window every morning and there's like an angler fish
out there, just like dangling. It's weird little lure. Hey. Hey,
(47:55):
the only reassuring thing about that part of the planet
is that, due to tremendous pressure, the vast majorios animals
are so tiny. That's the only thing that makes me
feel safe. If they were even a foot longer, it
would be too much lovecraft for me. There's some big
ones down there too, though, So shout out to the
(48:15):
Marine Lab Underwater Laboratory. It's one of the longest serving
seafloor habitats in history. I think it is the longest
serving and that is in Key Largo, Florida. It's been
around since nineteen eighty four. It's a training center too,
if you want to go. Yeah, that's super cool. I
think we also go there instead of going to the
(48:37):
underwater hotel, Let's just go to the marine lab. Let's
do all of them. Okay, if you want to go
to the rock side, because that sounds like a dope
party at the rock side, I just gotta go to
point sir man. Also, it is a dream of mine.
I don't know if any of any of you out
there friends and neighbors have ever done this, but it's
completely possible to travel by cargo ship. Shoot the curl,
(48:58):
that's what I was trying to remember the term for it.
Oh my god, we're all over the place. I love
you guys, you're my friends. Speaking of our dearest friends, though,
holy cow, it's been a minute since we've done it.
Shout Uta. Our first shout out today comes from Jacob.
(49:20):
Jacob says, Hi, Matt Nolan, Ben, I've been listening to
your show for a while now. It's a wonderful way
to help keep me sane while working in a metal shop.
I would like to know if you know what we
know and what we know we don't know about Area
fifty one. Well, hey, we just talked about that, Jacob.
I think we got you covered. I grew up in
southern Nevada and lived there for ten years. My dad
(49:40):
was in the military, relatively high ranking two and still
I heard almost nothing about it other than one of
my friend's dad's worked there but couldn't say what he
was doing. Also, if you read this on air or
on podcast Canned Air, I guess could I get a
birthday shout out for my very special wife Kelsey? Guess
(50:00):
what Kelsey down? Now bound down the shout outs for you, Kelsey.
Happy birthday, Kelsey, and thanks for writing to us. Jacob.
We do have We do have some other I think
we talked about Area fifty one and some earlier episodes too.
It continually comes up, and we have some videos about
(50:22):
it on YouTube that we definitely recommend you check out. Next,
we've got one from Helen. She says, Hey, guys, I
just wanted to say you're awesome. Thanks Helen. We think
you're awesome too. I have never been much into conspiracy,
but I've enjoyed learning from you all. I respect very
deeply that you start with the facts and then and
(50:42):
I say that with quotes, quote fingers, and then talk
about your own opinions. The sign of a great intellectual
is that he can present facts and opinions as separate.
I have been so inspired by or work and look
forward to every episode. I live in Athens. I don't
know if you travel up that way much, but I'd
always have a free place to stay. Oh man, Helen,
that was so nice. I'm kind of embarrassed that I
(51:03):
was the one to read it. I'm blushing all over.
And uh. I love Athens and I think these guys
do too. I lived there for a little while and
and and miss it very much. So yeah, well my
question is, wait, this this email goes on right, What
is she buttering us up for something? Oh man, You're right, man,
there there is more. I was so enraptured by the
(51:27):
compliments being lavished upon us that I didn't even notice
that there was a point to all this. Um. I've
been wanting to request a shout out forever since you
first started them. Yeah, yes, I'm listening that long awesome UM,
but wanted to have a show idea to include. Now
I have two. One the hollow moon. We were just
(51:47):
talking about moon cuisine, spaceship. I just heard this theory
on the History Channel. Yeah, is the moon hollow? And
is it a spaceship. Was it a spaceship? An ancient
relic of an extraterrestrial Yeah, dude, humans get here on
the moon. I'm gonna say, no, Well, we should look
into it, Okay, I guess we can do that, Matt.
(52:07):
The Moon is relatively unexplored. There's that. That's very true.
So it's possible that there are things. It's certain that
there are things there that we are not yet aware of.
It is a very tall milkshake to sip to think
that it could be a wreck of a spacecraft, right,
(52:28):
So that would almost be implying. Oh, I see what
you're saying. If it's all I was thinking, like I said,
I mean, it's like a prop or something that's sort
of like it's like a piece of space scenery. So yeah,
I mean I think it's definitely worth looking into. I
didn't know that the History Channel was looking at that stuff. Yeah,
ancient aliens. Oh that's right. Okay, Well we will. We
(52:49):
will dig in and see if we can give it
to go. Let's see what's out there, because I'd also
be interested in finding out just what what we suspect
is on the Moon but hasn't been discovered yet. You
should check out our sister podcast stuff you miss in
History's two part episode on the Great Moon Hoax, because
if you want some Moon tomfoolery, there's some good stuff
(53:11):
in there, all kinds of wacky ideas that people had
in their heads about what was on the moon. So
check those out from Holly and Tracy, and then Helen
goes on to have a second idea. GMOs. There's been
all sorts of experiments proving they're terrible for you. What's
up with that? Genetically modified organisms proving that's okay. I'm
(53:33):
interested in that because I don't well, I'm more of suggesting, yeah, yeah,
I have. I am not personally familiar with a lot
of studies or experiments pertaining to this. On a personal level,
I will say that I don't see anything wrong with
labeling a food product labeling food is containing GMOs. I
(53:58):
completely don't see why somebody would have a bug on
their bubb kiss about it. But the idea of the studies,
we would really need to look into those, Yeah, to
do an episode on it. The only issue I can
see are plants that are specifically modified to withstand certain
(54:20):
pesticides or insecticides. I can only imagine that that's the
only place that I would be worried, like even at
all about genetically modified or there's issues that are how
I could cause, like superbugs and stuff that I make
that up. No, that's a that's a good point because
we know with large scale agriculture or agribusiness, we know
(54:44):
there's been a trend toward homogeneous, hologenous agricultural products. Like you,
it's very real possibility that as we're recording this, and
if you're listening to this now, the banana as we
know it may be extinct within our lifetimes because it's
essentially just a thing that has been cloned. And this
(55:05):
won't be the first time that humanity lost the most
popular banana, which is why banana flavored candy tastes different
in comparison to the modern banana Cavendish v gross Michelle.
The last thing Helen says is that she has a
book on the subject called Altered Jeans Twisted Truths, and
she says she wait. She says she'd love for us
(55:27):
to have it and drop by the studio if we
wanted it, So please shout me out so much love,
so thanks so much, Helen, and you know, shoot us
an email. Maybe we can we can arrange a visit.
The next shout out goes to Samuel. He wrote us
an email. He says, Hello, I'm an artist and I
want to send a gift to you guys that I
think you may appreciate. But I don't know who are
how to address it so that Matt and Ben and
(55:49):
Noll and Paul will receive it. Can you please tell
me what addressed to send it to? Thank you? Well,
first of all, Samuel, as an artist, good on you.
It is not easy to do that. I hope you
have some kind of inflow of money from the art
that you create. And if not, I hope you are
(56:10):
doing something else fulfilling in your life. That is, you know,
letting you pay rent. God, you're a good guy man. Well, okay, well,
I'm just saying, you know, it's cool that you're creating art,
and especially that you want to send it to us.
I agreed. Our address is everybody write this down. If
you are not scary and you don't want to hurt us,
(56:31):
please write this down. Definitely, no unibommers. I'm okay with
the scary, scary mail right up my alley. I just
bring that up because I started watching the man Hunt series. Yeah,
it's very very good. Well, if you're on a man
hunt for Ben and Mad and Noll, here's where you go.
It's six seven five Ponce de Leon Avenue, northeast Sweet
(56:54):
forty five hundred. That's Atlanta, Georgia, three zero three o E.
And seriously, no creepers. We've got like top notch security
here so you will not make it past the front door.
We've got attack dogs, the sentry guns are online. They
are big time. But also hope that we will come back.
I hope this doesn't come back to bite us. And
(57:17):
this concludes our oh but not our show. As always,
thank you so much for tuning in. You are the
most important part of every episode we do, which means
that we want to hear from you. Do you have
military experience? Have you lived on a submarine? If so,
(57:40):
what do you think about the idea of people spending
extended amounts of time under water? And we say extended,
we mean years. Do you live on a yellow submarine?
Have you been to an octopus's garden in the shade?
Have you seen blue meanies about? If so, please contact
the authorities first, then us and if you have I've
(58:00):
not found some meanings blue or otherwise, or been on
a submarine yellow or otherwise. But you have a suggestion
for our show, a topic you feel that your fellow
listeners would like to hear in the future, please let
us know. You can find Matt, Noel and I on Instagram.
You can find us on our website, Stuff they Don't
Want You to Know. You can find us on Facebook,
(58:21):
where we post a lot of stories that, for some
reason or another don't make it to the air. Yeah
it's correct, and Twitter and all that stuff. But the
best way to contact us, it always has been, it
always will be, write us an email. We are conspiracy
at HowStuffWorks dot com. And that's the end of this
(58:58):
classic episode. If you have any thoughts or questions about
this episode, you can get into contact with us in
a number of different ways. One of the best is
to give us a call. Our number is one eight
three three stdwy t K. If you don't want to
do that, you can send us a good old fashioned email.
We are conspiracy at iHeartRadio dot com. Stuff they Don't
(59:21):
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