March 20, 2015 • 35 mins
On December 9th, 1965, multiple witnesses saw a bright object shoot through the sky and - allegedly - land in Kecksburg, Pennsylvania. So what actually happened? Tune in to learn more.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
From UFOs two, Ghosts and government cover ups. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Hello,
welcome back to the show. When my name is Met
and I'm Ben, And today we are well, at least
(00:21):
in the room. We don't have super producer told with us. Yes,
ladies and gentlemen, our super producer, Noel E. T. Brown
has moved on to a better place. He's here, he's
directly outside. He's directly outside, still on this show, watching
us through a nifty new window because he is moving
(00:45):
on up. But you know what, Matt, even though he's outside,
something tells me that he can hear us. Call it,
call it faith. Call it the pair of headphones I
see him wearing. And and the fact that he's nodding
when we say stuff, Oh, that is weird. He did
respond in real time. Is it coincidence? Is it an accident?
(01:05):
Is there something else out there? Some other explanation? And
speaking of amazing segues. Today we're working on UFOs, right,
that's correct. Specifically, an incident that took place in Kecksburg,
Pennsylvania that has baffled people ever since the day that
had occurred. Yeah, it's tantalized people. It is irritated skeptics
(01:30):
and ufologists alike, because even today spoiler alert, most people
don't agree about what happened, including uh, surviving eye witnesses.
So what we're going to do is explore the facts
of this, some of the ways that this changed, and
in the end asked what you think because this is
(01:52):
a fascinating case. But but okay, so Matt, just just
the facts. What what happened? At around four pm on
Justcember nine, nineteen, residents of Kecksburg, Pennsylvania, around forty miles
outside of Pittsburgh, saw something bizarre, unexpected, and frightening. A
ball of fire shot through the sky. This thing, reportedly
(02:14):
acorn shaped, appeared to make a controlled crash, slowing down
before it hit the ground. Now, this isn't just one
person that's giving this report to a police officer or something.
You know, it's called calling nine one, Hey I saw
this crazy thing. This event had hundreds of witnesses. Yet
because numerous people saw it, and the question would be
(02:38):
what what was it? Because we know that these people
all saw something, they didn't just collectively pretend that something
happened around five pm on December night. But was it
a military craft, wayward meteorites something else? That's right? It
to me just after hearing the description, it sounds like
(03:00):
what we've seen before on numerous videos with the meteorite
breaking up as it's going through the atmosphere, right, because
going through the atmosphere is that no better roses. It's
a heck of a trip and most meters meteorites burn up. Right.
So this story will explore the evolution of this story.
But for a while, people thought the case was largely
(03:25):
closed until that is the nineteen nineties and listeners, some
of you may remember a show called Unsolved Mysteries. Do
you remember that when met Oh? I definitely do. I
loved it. I remember I remember seeing it on I
guess it must have been re runs by then, but
it came on after these reruns of ALF and that
was very It was appropriate to me. It made sense
(03:47):
to my my kid mind. Uh So, when when Unsolved
Mysteries ran this episode on Kecksburg or this segment rather, uh,
the what should we say? Um, we're a fan my show,
so we'll just say the poop hit the fan almost
immediately and despite numerous, often contradictory reports, aspects of this
(04:08):
instant remain unexplained today. So let's look at the initial reports,
how the subsequent explanations changed, as well as words from
the skeptics, words from those who were convinced that this
was some sort of extra terrestrial object, and of course
the eyewitnesses, that's right, and some of the people who
witnessed this, they claim that they actually made it to
(04:30):
the area or at least close area to where this thing,
whatever it is, impacted, and according to some of the statements,
they came upon a large metallic acorn shaped object that
was just in the ground that had hit and it
was one piece of solid metal, uh, I think one
(04:50):
person said bronze gold in color. And it didn't have
any kind of rivets in it or anything like that.
Didn't have seems, it didn't appear to be created out
of a bunch of man made materials, you know, the
way you would see an aircraft. Sure like an aircraft
at that time would have visible rivets. You could see
clear marks of construction. It's interesting because one of the
(05:12):
witnesses will several actually claim they saw markings that resembled
Egyptian hyperoglyphics and Matt this reminds me, Yeah, reminds me
of the Oh though the Roswald Crash reports that we
did some videos on I'm gonna go ahead and say
that we didn't see any clear photographs of this thing,
(05:35):
at least you and I haven't found any, but some
reportedly reputedly allegedly exist. Let's go back to a witness statement.
There's a guy who was by the time when his
interview came around, he was a retired machinist named Jim Romansky,
and at the time of the event, he was an
(05:56):
eighteen year old volunteer firefighter. He said he saw the
object looked like it was liquid metal poured into a mold,
and we can we can look more at this later,
but let's introduce one of the most important witnesses for
this story. A name you need to remember is John Murphy. Now,
at the time, he was a brand new director of
(06:18):
w h j B in nearby Greensburg, which is a
radio station. Exactly a radio station, gentleman, and remember John Murphy. Now,
he received word of this event from a listener, which
is kind of cool, right, that idea that you're sitting
there doing your job, as as you know, on the air,
(06:39):
and then what this thing, mysterious thing crashed and you're
stuck in a room, and you know you're trying to
get in as much information as you can. I can.
I am so jealous of John Murphy in this instance. Well, yeah,
people still will call radio stations, and so he's the director.
I imagine he's sitting somewhere very much where you're sitting,
(07:00):
directing things, right, Okay, yeah, he really can hear us.
So back to this story, as he he receives a
call from a listener named Francis Kelp. She reports that
something crazy had happened. Uh, the sky is falling, Well
maybe not all of it, but some of it. Well
maybe not some of it, but one flaming object has
(07:21):
fallen near her home. She said that she and her
kids approached this thing and they got about a half
mile away from it, and they saw what she described
as a four pointed star. So what Murphy do? Well,
first of all, let's just point out that a four
pointed star is a very different description than we've heard before, right, Yeah,
for all the other stuff, right, Okay, So she calls
(07:43):
the Pennsylvania State Police and they asked her to meet
and lead them to where she found this thing. Now
back to John Murphy. He called the the Pennsylvania State
Police after he heard of this, and he asked Kelp
the the lady that we just said who and out
and saw the thing, to meet and then lead them
(08:03):
to where she saw it. Then Murphy himself drives out
to check it out. And here's the thing. We don't
know who made it there first? Was it Murphy? Was
it the cops? Yeah? His wife. Murphy's wife, Bonnie Murphy
said that she believes her husband made it out there first.
But as far as whether how true that is, we
(08:25):
don't know. We do know that Murphy interviewed Francis Kalpiner
kids at the scene. Um and he also ran into
state Police officials Carl Metz and Paul Shipco And after
they walked out of the woods, they were evasive to
Murphy or he found them evasia when he asked what
they had seen, and they all they said was that
(08:46):
the military would be involved. So Murphy did what so
many of us have probably done when when we're not
happy with our interactions with an organization. He escalated it. Yeah,
So Murphy however, was not one to be cowed or intimidated,
and he called Mets and ship Co's boss. He called
(09:07):
the state police captain, who my belief was named Dousa
d U s s a Uh. Dousa responded pretty favorably
and invited Murphy to come to the police office in
Greensburg to hear the official statement from the FEDS. Members
of the army and the Air Force were there, and
we have a their official statement to quote at least
(09:30):
right the Pennsylvania State Police have made a thorough search
in the woods. We are convinced that there is nothing
whatsoever in the woods. Nothing We found nothing, not even
trees or wildlife. Yet zilch zip nothing to see here, yeah,
(09:51):
zip zitch not a surf. Uh. So Murphy Murphy takes
this statement, and obviously he doesn't believe it. He overhears
officers talking about a pulsating blue light, and when he
learns that they're going to return to the site, he
asked them if he can come with them, uh, and
they say yes. But when they get to the woods,
(10:11):
he's not allowed in there. The military has reportedly cordoned
off the area. You know, put the tape up, put
some guards around the perimeter restricted access, and then several
witnesses say that they saw a large flatbed truck leaving
the same spot with a conical object of some sort
(10:32):
under the tarp, after which the military began to leave
as well. Man, So put yourself in Murphy's shoes here,
what do you do you think that these guys are
hiding something that, you know, depending on what it is,
could have huge consequences on all of mankind perhaps or
maybe even just your country if it's another country's thing
(10:55):
that fell out of the sky. Uh, what do you do? Well,
Murphy decides that he's going to work on a radio
special called Object in the Woods, and he's interviewing witnesses.
He's talking to as many people as he can and
putting it on air. Now, a few days before this
special aired, witnesses began calling Murphy and requesting that he
(11:19):
chop out the parts that they were in. And you
know why why would they want that? Well, they were
fearing that the army, whoever is really in control of
the situation, maybe just the police, would somehow retaliate against
them for even talking about this thing. Now, after the
show men in suits visited Murphy, they went to his office.
(11:43):
They spoke in this back room for about half an hour.
They took his taped interviews when they left, and Murphy
refused to talk about this incident again. Now, that's pretty crazy,
right that that sounds like something you would write in
the script. Sure, it sounds. It sounds very similar to
(12:06):
numerous men in black stories and anecdotes. It's it's true, though, Matt.
People do get visited, especially back then, people would get
visited by the Feds, just men in nondescript suits. You know,
it did happen. Murphy's wife, Bonnie noted that his his
research and the documents that you have been keeping were
(12:28):
gone as well, and she never saw the photographs that
Murphy took because he refused to speak about this incident. Allegedly,
he gave a copy of the unedited full documentary to
a man named Stan Gordon, but this unedited version of
(12:51):
the documentary has also disappeared. Uh. Stan Gordon is someone
who will come up later when we talk about the
modern day. Uh. He is someone who you can check
out if you believe there is something rotten in Denmark,
or should I say rotten in Cakesburg, Pennsylvania. Yeah. So
(13:11):
let's look at some of these initial public statements. Huh okay, Well,
the first one the Spokesman Review. They published a story
on December ten called UFO Starts Many Fires, and in
this piece they claim that the the objects set a
bunch of fires, or it started a bunch of fires
when it when it landed and or crashed. There were
(13:34):
lots of bursts of light that occurred when this when
this thing came down, and also a lot of smoke
before hitting the earth. Now in this in this story,
this is a fairly short article which you can look
up for yourself online and you'll see reports of different
fires happening um around different parts of the Pennsylvania area
(13:57):
and outside of it. There's a report of somebody describing
this as a volleyball shaped object or volleyball size. But
we also have to keep in mind that for someone
on the ground with a fast moving object and a
bright one, it can be very difficult for us to
have a true understanding of the size of the object
and the distance of the object. And this is something
(14:20):
that's going to come up with some of the skeptical
statements as well. Another funny thing happens the Air Force
changes the official report to state that instead of not
finding anything in the woods, a meteorite fell to earth.
Most people accepted this explanation. The case seemed closed for decades. However,
(14:41):
that wasn't the last time the story would change. Yeah,
that's true. Man. In the As we said, this story
hit the public eye and the public mind a new
things to the folks at unsolved Mysteries, And this was
controversial in the area at the time. People who lived
in Cxburg really, you know, they were divided. Some people
(15:05):
really didn't like the attention that this was bringing to
their fairly small town. And you know, uh, I think
there was even a petition that was gathered together and
signed by a lot of people. Sure, yet some of
whom just didn't want the show of film that they
weren't alive when it happened. They had never claimed to
be witnesses, but they didn't want untolved mysteries or television
(15:29):
types stirring up more out of towners and violating privacy.
I imagine. It is interesting because it seems like it
would be, I don't know, a boom to your small
town if oh, yeah, there's a UFO store there. Now,
this this tourist industry that sprouts out around these things
is is definitely in swing. There After the show, more
(15:51):
witnesses came forward, and will call them self identified witnesses
because they don't have a lot of confirmation, so these
are anecdotes. One one person was a United States Air
Force officer who was apparently tasked with guarding this flatbed
truck we mentioned earlier and told it was bound for
Right Patterson Air Force Base. Another one was a building
(16:15):
contractor who apparently transported a load of six quote special
bricks whatever, whatever the heck that is to a hangar
inside right Patterson. This is an Air Force base. And
he looked inside and he claims that he saw this
bell shaped device with uh some some men wearing these
(16:39):
you know, the white radiation suits on TV before the
radiation protection suits. Yeah, and he said, these guys are
looking at it, going all over it, just trying to
figure out either either studying it or something. And they
start escorting the mountain. Tell him, they say, he just
saw an object that in twenty years would become common knowledge.
And we do know, okay, I have to say this
(17:01):
important fairness, Matt. We do know that, especially in terms
of aircraft. Uh, that is completely possible twit years, not
just for the United States to do it, but for
other countries, you know, China, Russia, probably several European countries
have that capability. Um, but the United States is one
(17:23):
of the biggest in the game. So as soon as
this happens, as soon as Unsolved Mysteries runs this thing, uh,
numerous other shows began focusing on Keeksburg, and they're tantalizing
the UFO believers with things that are not quite answers,
and they're doubtlessly irritating the heck out of you know,
like the overly emotional skeptics. And and uh so the
(17:46):
question is what what exactly landed? We have several possibilities, right.
The first one, like we said at the top, and
then was the official story for a while there a meteorite, right, yeah,
and that's clearly possib well, I mean, eighteen thousand to
eighty four thousand meteorites that are larger than ten grams
(18:06):
hit Earth every year. Yeah, and then if you look
at something like the Geminid meteor shower, I mean it
was in progress at the time. Of course. Astronomer Louis
Winker from Penn state he doesn't think anything could have
survived the passage through the atmosphere to the ground. At
least that would match up what people saw at the
(18:26):
expert incident. Right, Yeah, then there's we'll go ahead and
throw it out there. There's the possibility of an unidentified
non man made object. Uh. And this one of the
big things that people use as proof of this is
that there is proof of um secrecy, shifting stories, official sources,
(18:51):
contradicting one another. But again, the big question is if
there really was an extraterrestrial thing, then how on or
off Earth could it be kept secret for so long?
That's asking a lot, especially if people already you know,
especially if we have a guy who's working on a documentary,
if we have all these other people coming forward and
(19:14):
saying stuff, Um, yeah, you have to wonder what what else?
That is an extraordinary claim. But there are other claims
that people put a little bit more, give a little
bit more consideration too. Perhaps what if what if this
thing was a Russian satellite, specifically the Venus Cosmos satellite. Yes,
(19:34):
now that is an excellent question, and that's still one
of the front running theories. Uh, there is a Soviet
satellite spacecraft expert named James Oberg, who I think we've
mentioned in a couple of other shows before. He is
he is a UFO skeptic um, but he also believes
that he's also skeptical. There was for a while about
(19:56):
this Cosmos nineties six satellite because he said like the
timing might not match up, But later he came up
with a possible explanation. He said that the Cosmos have
been set to re enter the atmosphere and crashing Canada
thirteen hours before, and so that will put it at
you know, around the three in the morning, le after
three in the morning. Uh. He has an interview in
(20:17):
Omni magazine where he says that maybe what entered the
area at that time instead was a rocket booster and
that the probe itself fell to Earth and crashed in Kecksburg.
But this leads us down a really interesting thing that
I wanted to give a shout out too, because the
Russian and American forces at this time had sort of
(20:40):
a handshake agreement with you know, if some if one
of if the U S satellite falls in something under
the Russian sphere of influence. Notice I don't just say
Russia Um, if something falls in the U. S. Sphere
of influence, then we will get it and we will
give it back to you. Um. However, is that may
(21:01):
not have always been the case, but it would explain
massive secrecy because the Air Force apparently had a secret
operation called Project moon Dust, and their purpose was to
get any foreign space probes that crashed. So their purpose
was kind of too secretly get get around this this
(21:22):
uh informal agreement. I would just like, can point something
out here. I can imagine someone from you know, fairly
middle of nowhere, Kecksburg, Pennsylvania, seeing a ship that has
a bunch of cyrillic written on it might just associate
it with something that is not a I hate to
(21:46):
say this because it sounds like I'm saying some of
the witnesses were either not intelligent or just didn't understand
what Russian looked like. But perhaps they didn't it is possible.
I mean, you know a lot of people aren't reading
and cyrillic as a you know, as a percentage of
our population even today in the United States. You know,
(22:06):
That's why being able to read and speak Russian is
such an incredibly valuable skill. Learny foreign language really a
lot of a lot of It's true, man, A lot
of us here in the United States are not polyglots,
so me but yeah, I can imagine, or you know,
you could always say, well, what if Russia was getting
(22:28):
Soviet Union was getting tricky and putting hieroglyphs on their
satellites just for fun. Sure, it's yeah, it is, It
is totally possible. Um. The The other thing here is
there's a possibility that it was a secret United States
project that crashed in the ground. That is so possible
that could happen today. Let's just go ahead and just
(22:51):
to depict other things that are secret that the United
States could have crashed to the ground somewhere. X thirty
seven B big time an unmanned spacecraft that just goes
out in space and hangs out for days months. But
what does it do? Ben? You know, that is such
a great it is such a great question. Uh, Matt's
(23:12):
Matt is buzzing my chops a little bit because I
went through a period where I would come up to
your desk pretty much every day, and even though it
was clear that neither of us knew what the X
thirty seven B was doing, I would kind of harass
both of us. I mean, it was fun. It was
a trouble shooting something that is impossible to solve, but
(23:35):
what what does it Anyway, that's the story for a
different show, and hopefully that news will come out soon.
So there's another possibility that I read about on a
more more skeptical side site, which well we'll talk about
the end that just says, note this Hecksburg incident, this
was all the confusion. Nothing landed. There was a Great
(23:58):
Lakes fireball at the same time, and then due to
the problems of perception that humans have on the ground
looking in the sky, that people thought it was closer
than it was, it wasn't actually anything there. I don't
know if I don't know how how much I believe
that because of some later statements. So let's go to
(24:22):
the modern day where we meet a sharp journalist from
New York City named Leslie Keene. Leslie Keene filed an
f o I, a Freedom of Information Act requests with NASA,
and she ended up in a lawsuit against NASA. And
this was with the Sci Fi Channel. So let's be
clear about this. She had a she had a big
(24:44):
supporting patron behind her that enabled this kind of uh
David against Goliath thing. Uh. In December two thousand five,
NASA said that they examined metallic fragments from this object
and claimed that it was as a Russian satellite, that
it really was a Russian satellite. The NASA spokesman said that,
(25:06):
by the way, we lost the records of this. Yeah,
we just can't find them. Yeah, yeah, we can't. And
if they if they said if this was true, then
you know, they said they lost it in the ninety nineties. Uh.
And in their in their statement they say that what
(25:27):
they can't track UFOs. So what they did was to
take a look at whatever did fall and give their
expert opinion their best guess, right, um, but the like,
we don't know how much that bears out because as
part of this work on the sci fi show uh
leslie Keene had people check the orbital paths of all
(25:48):
known satellites and other records from the period in sixty
and the expert she had checking said that it was
absolutely impossible for any part of the Cosmos Venus probe
to have accounted for either the fireball or any object
at Katzburg. And these experts said furthermore, there were no
(26:09):
other man made satellites or other objects that re entered
the atmosphere that day, Well, according to the official records, right, Yeah.
And then speaking of records that they note, people have noted,
you know, the same thing you and I are noting here, Like,
how questionable is it that NASA could lose records? I think,
(26:32):
you know, I think that if it really is a
Russian satellite in the mid in the middle of the
Cold War, a Russian satellite fell to the United States, right,
and now we're decades and decades away from this event,
it's strange that. I mean, Okay, Matt, I will say,
maybe the records were honestly lost, but if they were
(26:54):
purposely lost, if they were destroyed, Uh, what prevents NASA
from saying, yeah, we destroyed them, Like what what prevents
that from coming to light? Is their statute of limitations?
Is it something that still impacts national security? Yeah? And
what happens What are the consequences of, oh, man, we
(27:14):
misplaced some documents. Are there any consequences? I I can't
imagine that there would be any because you know, it
was a clerical error or this happened. Yeah, that's a
that's a good question, and it it may well be
that more information emerges about this and solidifies what what
we do know or what witnesses are saying. But now
(27:36):
it's time for us to follow up on some of
our earlier mentioned players. What happened to John Murphy, Well,
apparently he never spoke about whatever conversation that he had
with the men in suits let's call them um like
he he just never even talked about it to anybody
(27:56):
that that we have record of. After the airing of
the heavily centered documentary that he made, yeah, a few
years after, in nineteen exactly, he went on to vacation.
He went to Ventura, California, and unfortunately, when he was
out there, he was killed in a hit and run accident.
(28:19):
And after his death, his wife, who we mentioned earlier,
Bonnie Murphy, said that her husband really did have photos
of an object, but that they were confiscated these photos.
She's saying something really did land. The state police confiscated it,
and he was threatened with grave consequences, grave enough and
believable enough at least that he was silenced on this
(28:43):
for life. That's very intense. I can imagine, as someone
with the family that if someone threatened my family, then
you would I would have to think very long and
hard about my you know, my moral high ground or
my instincts to want to go after the truth for
(29:05):
something like this that's scary to me. Well, it's it's
a situation, you know, if if that kind of stuff occurs,
when that stuff kind of occurs, we know it's a
situation that is not unique, that really has happened in
the past, um and not necessarily you know, with one
(29:25):
one particular country or one particular government or administration. Uh,
this stuff is happening today to journalists across the world
for myriad reasons. Don't report on corruption in uh was
Venezuela yet. And they're they're different, There are different things
being a journalist is is a very risky and stressful lifestyle,
(29:48):
I understand. But we do have some further reading. We've
only been able to look at I guess a little
bit beneath the surface of Techsburg, and we want to
hear from you. Do you think this is a meteorite?
Do you think this is a foreign technology? And if so,
how foreign? U? S. S. R. China non terrestrial? So
(30:12):
let's go towards just to end on some uh. Some
further reading here. I'll start with just the skeptical thing.
We mentioned that some of the skeptical sides had claimed this, uh,
this event and Kexburg was confused with the Great Lakes fireball.
And that's from a site called debunker dot com. And
(30:33):
they say that the Kexburg crash itself is sensationalism and
they have some great sources if you want to check
this out. One of them they cited an issue of
Sky and Telescope magazine, where a professor of geophysics and
geology named G. W. Weather Hill says the following the
(30:55):
fireball was observed by many people in Ontario, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania,
and to a lesser extent in the neighboring states. In
newspaper accounts, a great many supposed impact sites were reported,
both in southwestern Pennsylvania and eastern Ohio. Fragments were claimed
to have fallen in Ohio and Michigan. These imagined happenings
(31:17):
arose from the impossibility of estimating the distance of an
object in the sky. Almost everyone who saw the fireball
thought it was much closer than it really was when
it disappeared behind a house or a tree. Many people
thought it had fallen only a few hundred yards beyond.
And that's that's a really important thing because the weather
(31:40):
Hill is bringing up two concepts here. The first, we
know it's true, it is credibly difficult, mainly impossible with
the naked eye to estimate the distance of an object
in the sky. Uh. Secondly, you know, some people thought
it was much closer and really was. Secondly, and perhaps
more importantly, he's saying nowhere numerous possible crash sites from debris, right,
(32:04):
so not one Ketsburg, but many who knows how many?
Um this this is interesting, but you know, of course
we want to present that side of the argument and
see what you think about it. If you want to
get some in depth information on something that explores Kecksburg
in um more of a conspiratorial side of the story
(32:26):
and goes into much more depth than the mainstream TV shows.
And then do check out the work of stand Gordon
if you if you look at some of his stuff,
which you can find available online. We would love to
hear your views. Tell us what you think happened on
the afternoon of December nine in Catsburg, Pennsylvania, or what
(32:48):
didn't happen so find us on Twitter, Guys, find us
on Facebook. We are at conspiracy stuff on both of those. Um,
you can go to our website stuff they don't want
you to know dot com. We've got all of our
audio podcasts like this there. Hopefully you're listening to this
on there if you are, Thanks, dude or lady. Oh oh,
before we go, ben, one more thing we wanted to address.
(33:11):
Oh yes, we wanted to thank everybody who checked out
our one of our recent audio podcasts on race and
policing in the United States specifically. And we received some
great feedback on this, both in terms of constructive criticism
and in terms of valid pointers for where to head next.
(33:33):
One of the best points, at least in my opinion,
was that we were talking about arrest rates and incarceration rates,
but we weren't talking about the rates of the crimes
that were committed, uh in in the same way. So
we heard this and we would like to explore this. Uh,
We're gonna look at crime. We have some stuff that
touches on it. Earlier. You know, we've talked about militarization
(33:56):
of police, we've talked about profits, immigratization and yeah, and
we've also explored I don't know if we've done it
in this show, but some other shows we've explored some
of the problems of having a bigger society and whether
people are hardwired to only be able to consider a
couple of a smaller number of people human beings. It's
(34:18):
uh called the Dunbar's number. Was that brain stuff stuff? Yeah,
it was on brain Stuff. We shall also check it
out there. We're going to head out. There is another
thing that we'd like to cover in more depth later.
I don't know when we'll get to it, but that
is the Brazilian version of Operation Blue Book. We hope
you stay tuned for that, and we hope you check
(34:40):
out our video coming up later on this week is
your Government Building UFOs. So tell us what you think
if you don't like the social media thing right to us,
we are conspiracy at how stuff works dot com. From
more on this top another unexplained phenomenon, visit YouTube dot
(35:03):
com slash conspiracy stuff. You can also get in touch
on Twitter at the handle at the conspiracy Stuff
From UFOs two, Ghosts and government cover ups. History is
riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or
learn the stuff they don't want you to now. Hello,
welcome back to the show. When my name is Met
and I'm Ben, And today we are well, at least
(00:21):
in the room. We don't have super producer told with us. Yes,
ladies and gentlemen, our super producer, Noel E. T. Brown
has moved on to a better place. He's here, he's
directly outside. He's directly outside, still on this show, watching
us through a nifty new window because he is moving
(00:45):
on up. But you know what, Matt, even though he's outside,
something tells me that he can hear us. Call it,
call it faith. Call it the pair of headphones I
see him wearing. And and the fact that he's nodding
when we say stuff, Oh, that is weird. He did
respond in real time. Is it coincidence? Is it an accident?
(01:05):
Is there something else out there? Some other explanation? And
speaking of amazing segues. Today we're working on UFOs, right,
that's correct. Specifically, an incident that took place in Kecksburg,
Pennsylvania that has baffled people ever since the day that
had occurred. Yeah, it's tantalized people. It is irritated skeptics
(01:30):
and ufologists alike, because even today spoiler alert, most people
don't agree about what happened, including uh, surviving eye witnesses.
So what we're going to do is explore the facts
of this, some of the ways that this changed, and
in the end asked what you think because this is
(01:52):
a fascinating case. But but okay, so Matt, just just
the facts. What what happened? At around four pm on
Justcember nine, nineteen, residents of Kecksburg, Pennsylvania, around forty miles
outside of Pittsburgh, saw something bizarre, unexpected, and frightening. A
ball of fire shot through the sky. This thing, reportedly
(02:14):
acorn shaped, appeared to make a controlled crash, slowing down
before it hit the ground. Now, this isn't just one
person that's giving this report to a police officer or something.
You know, it's called calling nine one, Hey I saw
this crazy thing. This event had hundreds of witnesses. Yet
because numerous people saw it, and the question would be
(02:38):
what what was it? Because we know that these people
all saw something, they didn't just collectively pretend that something
happened around five pm on December night. But was it
a military craft, wayward meteorites something else? That's right? It
to me just after hearing the description, it sounds like
(03:00):
what we've seen before on numerous videos with the meteorite
breaking up as it's going through the atmosphere, right, because
going through the atmosphere is that no better roses. It's
a heck of a trip and most meters meteorites burn up. Right.
So this story will explore the evolution of this story.
But for a while, people thought the case was largely
(03:25):
closed until that is the nineteen nineties and listeners, some
of you may remember a show called Unsolved Mysteries. Do
you remember that when met Oh? I definitely do. I
loved it. I remember I remember seeing it on I
guess it must have been re runs by then, but
it came on after these reruns of ALF and that
was very It was appropriate to me. It made sense
(03:47):
to my my kid mind. Uh So, when when Unsolved
Mysteries ran this episode on Kecksburg or this segment rather, uh,
the what should we say? Um, we're a fan my show,
so we'll just say the poop hit the fan almost
immediately and despite numerous, often contradictory reports, aspects of this
(04:08):
instant remain unexplained today. So let's look at the initial reports,
how the subsequent explanations changed, as well as words from
the skeptics, words from those who were convinced that this
was some sort of extra terrestrial object, and of course
the eyewitnesses, that's right, and some of the people who
witnessed this, they claim that they actually made it to
(04:30):
the area or at least close area to where this thing,
whatever it is, impacted, and according to some of the statements,
they came upon a large metallic acorn shaped object that
was just in the ground that had hit and it
was one piece of solid metal, uh, I think one
(04:50):
person said bronze gold in color. And it didn't have
any kind of rivets in it or anything like that.
Didn't have seems, it didn't appear to be created out
of a bunch of man made materials, you know, the
way you would see an aircraft. Sure like an aircraft
at that time would have visible rivets. You could see
clear marks of construction. It's interesting because one of the
(05:12):
witnesses will several actually claim they saw markings that resembled
Egyptian hyperoglyphics and Matt this reminds me, Yeah, reminds me
of the Oh though the Roswald Crash reports that we
did some videos on I'm gonna go ahead and say
that we didn't see any clear photographs of this thing,
(05:35):
at least you and I haven't found any, but some
reportedly reputedly allegedly exist. Let's go back to a witness statement.
There's a guy who was by the time when his
interview came around, he was a retired machinist named Jim Romansky,
and at the time of the event, he was an
(05:56):
eighteen year old volunteer firefighter. He said he saw the
object looked like it was liquid metal poured into a mold,
and we can we can look more at this later,
but let's introduce one of the most important witnesses for
this story. A name you need to remember is John Murphy. Now,
at the time, he was a brand new director of
(06:18):
w h j B in nearby Greensburg, which is a
radio station. Exactly a radio station, gentleman, and remember John Murphy. Now,
he received word of this event from a listener, which
is kind of cool, right, that idea that you're sitting
there doing your job, as as you know, on the air,
(06:39):
and then what this thing, mysterious thing crashed and you're
stuck in a room, and you know you're trying to
get in as much information as you can. I can.
I am so jealous of John Murphy in this instance. Well, yeah,
people still will call radio stations, and so he's the director.
I imagine he's sitting somewhere very much where you're sitting,
(07:00):
directing things, right, Okay, yeah, he really can hear us.
So back to this story, as he he receives a
call from a listener named Francis Kelp. She reports that
something crazy had happened. Uh, the sky is falling, Well
maybe not all of it, but some of it. Well
maybe not some of it, but one flaming object has
(07:21):
fallen near her home. She said that she and her
kids approached this thing and they got about a half
mile away from it, and they saw what she described
as a four pointed star. So what Murphy do? Well,
first of all, let's just point out that a four
pointed star is a very different description than we've heard before, right, Yeah,
for all the other stuff, right, Okay, So she calls
(07:43):
the Pennsylvania State Police and they asked her to meet
and lead them to where she found this thing. Now
back to John Murphy. He called the the Pennsylvania State
Police after he heard of this, and he asked Kelp
the the lady that we just said who and out
and saw the thing, to meet and then lead them
(08:03):
to where she saw it. Then Murphy himself drives out
to check it out. And here's the thing. We don't
know who made it there first? Was it Murphy? Was
it the cops? Yeah? His wife. Murphy's wife, Bonnie Murphy
said that she believes her husband made it out there first.
But as far as whether how true that is, we
(08:25):
don't know. We do know that Murphy interviewed Francis Kalpiner
kids at the scene. Um and he also ran into
state Police officials Carl Metz and Paul Shipco And after
they walked out of the woods, they were evasive to
Murphy or he found them evasia when he asked what
they had seen, and they all they said was that
(08:46):
the military would be involved. So Murphy did what so
many of us have probably done when when we're not
happy with our interactions with an organization. He escalated it. Yeah,
So Murphy however, was not one to be cowed or intimidated,
and he called Mets and ship Co's boss. He called
(09:07):
the state police captain, who my belief was named Dousa
d U s s a Uh. Dousa responded pretty favorably
and invited Murphy to come to the police office in
Greensburg to hear the official statement from the FEDS. Members
of the army and the Air Force were there, and
we have a their official statement to quote at least
(09:30):
right the Pennsylvania State Police have made a thorough search
in the woods. We are convinced that there is nothing
whatsoever in the woods. Nothing We found nothing, not even
trees or wildlife. Yet zilch zip nothing to see here, yeah,
(09:51):
zip zitch not a surf. Uh. So Murphy Murphy takes
this statement, and obviously he doesn't believe it. He overhears
officers talking about a pulsating blue light, and when he
learns that they're going to return to the site, he
asked them if he can come with them, uh, and
they say yes. But when they get to the woods,
(10:11):
he's not allowed in there. The military has reportedly cordoned
off the area. You know, put the tape up, put
some guards around the perimeter restricted access, and then several
witnesses say that they saw a large flatbed truck leaving
the same spot with a conical object of some sort
(10:32):
under the tarp, after which the military began to leave
as well. Man, So put yourself in Murphy's shoes here,
what do you do you think that these guys are
hiding something that, you know, depending on what it is,
could have huge consequences on all of mankind perhaps or
maybe even just your country if it's another country's thing
(10:55):
that fell out of the sky. Uh, what do you do? Well,
Murphy decides that he's going to work on a radio
special called Object in the Woods, and he's interviewing witnesses.
He's talking to as many people as he can and
putting it on air. Now, a few days before this
special aired, witnesses began calling Murphy and requesting that he
(11:19):
chop out the parts that they were in. And you
know why why would they want that? Well, they were
fearing that the army, whoever is really in control of
the situation, maybe just the police, would somehow retaliate against
them for even talking about this thing. Now, after the
show men in suits visited Murphy, they went to his office.
(11:43):
They spoke in this back room for about half an hour.
They took his taped interviews when they left, and Murphy
refused to talk about this incident again. Now, that's pretty crazy,
right that that sounds like something you would write in
the script. Sure, it sounds. It sounds very similar to
(12:06):
numerous men in black stories and anecdotes. It's it's true, though, Matt.
People do get visited, especially back then, people would get
visited by the Feds, just men in nondescript suits. You know,
it did happen. Murphy's wife, Bonnie noted that his his
research and the documents that you have been keeping were
(12:28):
gone as well, and she never saw the photographs that
Murphy took because he refused to speak about this incident. Allegedly,
he gave a copy of the unedited full documentary to
a man named Stan Gordon, but this unedited version of
(12:51):
the documentary has also disappeared. Uh. Stan Gordon is someone
who will come up later when we talk about the
modern day. Uh. He is someone who you can check
out if you believe there is something rotten in Denmark,
or should I say rotten in Cakesburg, Pennsylvania. Yeah. So
(13:11):
let's look at some of these initial public statements. Huh okay, Well,
the first one the Spokesman Review. They published a story
on December ten called UFO Starts Many Fires, and in
this piece they claim that the the objects set a
bunch of fires, or it started a bunch of fires
when it when it landed and or crashed. There were
(13:34):
lots of bursts of light that occurred when this when
this thing came down, and also a lot of smoke
before hitting the earth. Now in this in this story,
this is a fairly short article which you can look
up for yourself online and you'll see reports of different
fires happening um around different parts of the Pennsylvania area
(13:57):
and outside of it. There's a report of somebody describing
this as a volleyball shaped object or volleyball size. But
we also have to keep in mind that for someone
on the ground with a fast moving object and a
bright one, it can be very difficult for us to
have a true understanding of the size of the object
and the distance of the object. And this is something
(14:20):
that's going to come up with some of the skeptical
statements as well. Another funny thing happens the Air Force
changes the official report to state that instead of not
finding anything in the woods, a meteorite fell to earth.
Most people accepted this explanation. The case seemed closed for decades. However,
(14:41):
that wasn't the last time the story would change. Yeah,
that's true. Man. In the As we said, this story
hit the public eye and the public mind a new
things to the folks at unsolved Mysteries, And this was
controversial in the area at the time. People who lived
in Cxburg really, you know, they were divided. Some people
(15:05):
really didn't like the attention that this was bringing to
their fairly small town. And you know, uh, I think
there was even a petition that was gathered together and
signed by a lot of people. Sure, yet some of
whom just didn't want the show of film that they
weren't alive when it happened. They had never claimed to
be witnesses, but they didn't want untolved mysteries or television
(15:29):
types stirring up more out of towners and violating privacy.
I imagine. It is interesting because it seems like it
would be, I don't know, a boom to your small
town if oh, yeah, there's a UFO store there. Now,
this this tourist industry that sprouts out around these things
is is definitely in swing. There After the show, more
(15:51):
witnesses came forward, and will call them self identified witnesses
because they don't have a lot of confirmation, so these
are anecdotes. One one person was a United States Air
Force officer who was apparently tasked with guarding this flatbed
truck we mentioned earlier and told it was bound for
Right Patterson Air Force Base. Another one was a building
(16:15):
contractor who apparently transported a load of six quote special
bricks whatever, whatever the heck that is to a hangar
inside right Patterson. This is an Air Force base. And
he looked inside and he claims that he saw this
bell shaped device with uh some some men wearing these
(16:39):
you know, the white radiation suits on TV before the
radiation protection suits. Yeah, and he said, these guys are
looking at it, going all over it, just trying to
figure out either either studying it or something. And they
start escorting the mountain. Tell him, they say, he just
saw an object that in twenty years would become common knowledge.
And we do know, okay, I have to say this
(17:01):
important fairness, Matt. We do know that, especially in terms
of aircraft. Uh, that is completely possible twit years, not
just for the United States to do it, but for
other countries, you know, China, Russia, probably several European countries
have that capability. Um, but the United States is one
(17:23):
of the biggest in the game. So as soon as
this happens, as soon as Unsolved Mysteries runs this thing, uh,
numerous other shows began focusing on Keeksburg, and they're tantalizing
the UFO believers with things that are not quite answers,
and they're doubtlessly irritating the heck out of you know,
like the overly emotional skeptics. And and uh so the
(17:46):
question is what what exactly landed? We have several possibilities, right.
The first one, like we said at the top, and
then was the official story for a while there a meteorite, right, yeah,
and that's clearly possib well, I mean, eighteen thousand to
eighty four thousand meteorites that are larger than ten grams
(18:06):
hit Earth every year. Yeah, and then if you look
at something like the Geminid meteor shower, I mean it
was in progress at the time. Of course. Astronomer Louis
Winker from Penn state he doesn't think anything could have
survived the passage through the atmosphere to the ground. At
least that would match up what people saw at the
(18:26):
expert incident. Right, Yeah, then there's we'll go ahead and
throw it out there. There's the possibility of an unidentified
non man made object. Uh. And this one of the
big things that people use as proof of this is
that there is proof of um secrecy, shifting stories, official sources,
(18:51):
contradicting one another. But again, the big question is if
there really was an extraterrestrial thing, then how on or
off Earth could it be kept secret for so long?
That's asking a lot, especially if people already you know,
especially if we have a guy who's working on a documentary,
if we have all these other people coming forward and
(19:14):
saying stuff, Um, yeah, you have to wonder what what else?
That is an extraordinary claim. But there are other claims
that people put a little bit more, give a little
bit more consideration too. Perhaps what if what if this
thing was a Russian satellite, specifically the Venus Cosmos satellite. Yes,
(19:34):
now that is an excellent question, and that's still one
of the front running theories. Uh, there is a Soviet
satellite spacecraft expert named James Oberg, who I think we've
mentioned in a couple of other shows before. He is
he is a UFO skeptic um, but he also believes
that he's also skeptical. There was for a while about
(19:56):
this Cosmos nineties six satellite because he said like the
timing might not match up, But later he came up
with a possible explanation. He said that the Cosmos have
been set to re enter the atmosphere and crashing Canada
thirteen hours before, and so that will put it at
you know, around the three in the morning, le after
three in the morning. Uh. He has an interview in
(20:17):
Omni magazine where he says that maybe what entered the
area at that time instead was a rocket booster and
that the probe itself fell to Earth and crashed in Kecksburg.
But this leads us down a really interesting thing that
I wanted to give a shout out too, because the
Russian and American forces at this time had sort of
(20:40):
a handshake agreement with you know, if some if one
of if the U S satellite falls in something under
the Russian sphere of influence. Notice I don't just say
Russia Um, if something falls in the U. S. Sphere
of influence, then we will get it and we will
give it back to you. Um. However, is that may
(21:01):
not have always been the case, but it would explain
massive secrecy because the Air Force apparently had a secret
operation called Project moon Dust, and their purpose was to
get any foreign space probes that crashed. So their purpose
was kind of too secretly get get around this this
(21:22):
uh informal agreement. I would just like, can point something
out here. I can imagine someone from you know, fairly
middle of nowhere, Kecksburg, Pennsylvania, seeing a ship that has
a bunch of cyrillic written on it might just associate
it with something that is not a I hate to
(21:46):
say this because it sounds like I'm saying some of
the witnesses were either not intelligent or just didn't understand
what Russian looked like. But perhaps they didn't it is possible.
I mean, you know a lot of people aren't reading
and cyrillic as a you know, as a percentage of
our population even today in the United States. You know,
(22:06):
That's why being able to read and speak Russian is
such an incredibly valuable skill. Learny foreign language really a
lot of a lot of It's true, man, A lot
of us here in the United States are not polyglots,
so me but yeah, I can imagine, or you know,
you could always say, well, what if Russia was getting
(22:28):
Soviet Union was getting tricky and putting hieroglyphs on their
satellites just for fun. Sure, it's yeah, it is, It
is totally possible. Um. The The other thing here is
there's a possibility that it was a secret United States
project that crashed in the ground. That is so possible
that could happen today. Let's just go ahead and just
(22:51):
to depict other things that are secret that the United
States could have crashed to the ground somewhere. X thirty
seven B big time an unmanned spacecraft that just goes
out in space and hangs out for days months. But
what does it do? Ben? You know, that is such
a great it is such a great question. Uh, Matt's
(23:12):
Matt is buzzing my chops a little bit because I
went through a period where I would come up to
your desk pretty much every day, and even though it
was clear that neither of us knew what the X
thirty seven B was doing, I would kind of harass
both of us. I mean, it was fun. It was
a trouble shooting something that is impossible to solve, but
(23:35):
what what does it Anyway, that's the story for a
different show, and hopefully that news will come out soon.
So there's another possibility that I read about on a
more more skeptical side site, which well we'll talk about
the end that just says, note this Hecksburg incident, this
was all the confusion. Nothing landed. There was a Great
(23:58):
Lakes fireball at the same time, and then due to
the problems of perception that humans have on the ground
looking in the sky, that people thought it was closer
than it was, it wasn't actually anything there. I don't
know if I don't know how how much I believe
that because of some later statements. So let's go to
(24:22):
the modern day where we meet a sharp journalist from
New York City named Leslie Keene. Leslie Keene filed an
f o I, a Freedom of Information Act requests with NASA,
and she ended up in a lawsuit against NASA. And
this was with the Sci Fi Channel. So let's be
clear about this. She had a she had a big
(24:44):
supporting patron behind her that enabled this kind of uh
David against Goliath thing. Uh. In December two thousand five,
NASA said that they examined metallic fragments from this object
and claimed that it was as a Russian satellite, that
it really was a Russian satellite. The NASA spokesman said that,
(25:06):
by the way, we lost the records of this. Yeah,
we just can't find them. Yeah, yeah, we can't. And
if they if they said if this was true, then
you know, they said they lost it in the ninety nineties. Uh.
And in their in their statement they say that what
(25:27):
they can't track UFOs. So what they did was to
take a look at whatever did fall and give their
expert opinion their best guess, right, um, but the like,
we don't know how much that bears out because as
part of this work on the sci fi show uh
leslie Keene had people check the orbital paths of all
(25:48):
known satellites and other records from the period in sixty
and the expert she had checking said that it was
absolutely impossible for any part of the Cosmos Venus probe
to have accounted for either the fireball or any object
at Katzburg. And these experts said furthermore, there were no
(26:09):
other man made satellites or other objects that re entered
the atmosphere that day, Well, according to the official records, right, Yeah.
And then speaking of records that they note, people have noted,
you know, the same thing you and I are noting here, Like,
how questionable is it that NASA could lose records? I think,
(26:32):
you know, I think that if it really is a
Russian satellite in the mid in the middle of the
Cold War, a Russian satellite fell to the United States, right,
and now we're decades and decades away from this event,
it's strange that. I mean, Okay, Matt, I will say,
maybe the records were honestly lost, but if they were
(26:54):
purposely lost, if they were destroyed, Uh, what prevents NASA
from saying, yeah, we destroyed them, Like what what prevents
that from coming to light? Is their statute of limitations?
Is it something that still impacts national security? Yeah? And
what happens What are the consequences of, oh, man, we
(27:14):
misplaced some documents. Are there any consequences? I I can't
imagine that there would be any because you know, it
was a clerical error or this happened. Yeah, that's a
that's a good question, and it it may well be
that more information emerges about this and solidifies what what
we do know or what witnesses are saying. But now
(27:36):
it's time for us to follow up on some of
our earlier mentioned players. What happened to John Murphy, Well,
apparently he never spoke about whatever conversation that he had
with the men in suits let's call them um like
he he just never even talked about it to anybody
(27:56):
that that we have record of. After the airing of
the heavily centered documentary that he made, yeah, a few
years after, in nineteen exactly, he went on to vacation.
He went to Ventura, California, and unfortunately, when he was
out there, he was killed in a hit and run accident.
(28:19):
And after his death, his wife, who we mentioned earlier,
Bonnie Murphy, said that her husband really did have photos
of an object, but that they were confiscated these photos.
She's saying something really did land. The state police confiscated it,
and he was threatened with grave consequences, grave enough and
believable enough at least that he was silenced on this
(28:43):
for life. That's very intense. I can imagine, as someone
with the family that if someone threatened my family, then
you would I would have to think very long and
hard about my you know, my moral high ground or
my instincts to want to go after the truth for
(29:05):
something like this that's scary to me. Well, it's it's
a situation, you know, if if that kind of stuff occurs,
when that stuff kind of occurs, we know it's a
situation that is not unique, that really has happened in
the past, um and not necessarily you know, with one
(29:25):
one particular country or one particular government or administration. Uh,
this stuff is happening today to journalists across the world
for myriad reasons. Don't report on corruption in uh was
Venezuela yet. And they're they're different, There are different things
being a journalist is is a very risky and stressful lifestyle,
(29:48):
I understand. But we do have some further reading. We've
only been able to look at I guess a little
bit beneath the surface of Techsburg, and we want to
hear from you. Do you think this is a meteorite?
Do you think this is a foreign technology? And if so,
how foreign? U? S. S. R. China non terrestrial? So
(30:12):
let's go towards just to end on some uh. Some
further reading here. I'll start with just the skeptical thing.
We mentioned that some of the skeptical sides had claimed this, uh,
this event and Kexburg was confused with the Great Lakes fireball.
And that's from a site called debunker dot com. And
(30:33):
they say that the Kexburg crash itself is sensationalism and
they have some great sources if you want to check
this out. One of them they cited an issue of
Sky and Telescope magazine, where a professor of geophysics and
geology named G. W. Weather Hill says the following the
(30:55):
fireball was observed by many people in Ontario, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania,
and to a lesser extent in the neighboring states. In
newspaper accounts, a great many supposed impact sites were reported,
both in southwestern Pennsylvania and eastern Ohio. Fragments were claimed
to have fallen in Ohio and Michigan. These imagined happenings
(31:17):
arose from the impossibility of estimating the distance of an
object in the sky. Almost everyone who saw the fireball
thought it was much closer than it really was when
it disappeared behind a house or a tree. Many people
thought it had fallen only a few hundred yards beyond.
And that's that's a really important thing because the weather
(31:40):
Hill is bringing up two concepts here. The first, we
know it's true, it is credibly difficult, mainly impossible with
the naked eye to estimate the distance of an object
in the sky. Uh. Secondly, you know, some people thought
it was much closer and really was. Secondly, and perhaps
more importantly, he's saying nowhere numerous possible crash sites from debris, right,
(32:04):
so not one Ketsburg, but many who knows how many?
Um this this is interesting, but you know, of course
we want to present that side of the argument and
see what you think about it. If you want to
get some in depth information on something that explores Kecksburg
in um more of a conspiratorial side of the story
(32:26):
and goes into much more depth than the mainstream TV shows.
And then do check out the work of stand Gordon
if you if you look at some of his stuff,
which you can find available online. We would love to
hear your views. Tell us what you think happened on
the afternoon of December nine in Catsburg, Pennsylvania, or what
(32:48):
didn't happen so find us on Twitter, Guys, find us
on Facebook. We are at conspiracy stuff on both of those. Um,
you can go to our website stuff they don't want
you to know dot com. We've got all of our
audio podcasts like this there. Hopefully you're listening to this
on there if you are, Thanks, dude or lady. Oh oh,
before we go, ben, one more thing we wanted to address.
(33:11):
Oh yes, we wanted to thank everybody who checked out
our one of our recent audio podcasts on race and
policing in the United States specifically. And we received some
great feedback on this, both in terms of constructive criticism
and in terms of valid pointers for where to head next.
(33:33):
One of the best points, at least in my opinion,
was that we were talking about arrest rates and incarceration rates,
but we weren't talking about the rates of the crimes
that were committed, uh in in the same way. So
we heard this and we would like to explore this. Uh,
We're gonna look at crime. We have some stuff that
touches on it. Earlier. You know, we've talked about militarization
(33:56):
of police, we've talked about profits, immigratization and yeah, and
we've also explored I don't know if we've done it
in this show, but some other shows we've explored some
of the problems of having a bigger society and whether
people are hardwired to only be able to consider a
couple of a smaller number of people human beings. It's
(34:18):
uh called the Dunbar's number. Was that brain stuff stuff? Yeah,
it was on brain Stuff. We shall also check it
out there. We're going to head out. There is another
thing that we'd like to cover in more depth later.
I don't know when we'll get to it, but that
is the Brazilian version of Operation Blue Book. We hope
you stay tuned for that, and we hope you check
(34:40):
out our video coming up later on this week is
your Government Building UFOs. So tell us what you think
if you don't like the social media thing right to us,
we are conspiracy at how stuff works dot com. From
more on this top another unexplained phenomenon, visit YouTube dot
(35:03):
com slash conspiracy stuff. You can also get in touch
on Twitter at the handle at the conspiracy Stuff
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Hosts And Creators
Matt Frederick
Ben Bowlin
Noel Brown
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