#1207 - Listen Like You Mean It: How to Hear What Your Child Isn't Saying

When children need to talk, they'll give subtle clues that most parents miss completely. Recognising these moments and responding with actual listening—not advice, stories, or solutions—creates connections that last decades. The secret? Summarise what they say instead of steering the conversation. Most children never reveal their real issue first, which means parents who jump in with solutions are missing what their children truly need: to be understood.

Quote of the Episode:

"Understanding is the deepest hunger of the human heart." - Stephen Covey (quoted by Ross Judd)

Key Points:

• Children rarely reveal their real issue first—they test the waters with a "safe" topic before sharing what's really bothering them.
• Look for unusual behaviour or emotional signals that indicate your child needs to talk.
• Taking control of the conversation prevents your child from getting to the deeper issue.
• The art of summarising (repeating back what your child has said) is the key to effective listening.
• Our brains think 10 times faster than people speak, making it incredibly difficult to truly listen.
• Deep listening isn't something you need to do all the time—just recognise the important moments.
• Children often already have the answers to their problems; they just need someone to listen.
• Use neutral phrases like "tell me more" to encourage continued sharing.
• Don't change the direction of the conversation with questions that steer it elsewhere.
• Effective listening involves "taking the ride, not the wheel"—let your child drive the conversation.

Resources Mentioned:

• "Listening: A Guide to Building Deeper Connections" by Ross Judd
• "Miss Connection: Why Your Teenage Daughter Hates You, Expects the World, and Needs to Talk" by Dr. Justin Coulson
• Stephen Covey's concept of "faithful translation" (active listening technique)
• Happy Families

Action Steps for Parents:

1. Recognise special moments when your child is seeking connection (unusual behaviour, lingering in doorways, emotional signals).
2. When these moments occur, stop everything, engage fully, and put away distractions.
3. Use neutral phrases like "tell me more" instead of asking directive questions.
4. Practise summarising what your child says without adding your own input.
5. Remember that the real issue usually comes second—be patient and don't try to solve the first problem they mention.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
I wrote a book a few years ago called Misconnection,
Why your teenage daughter hates You, expects the world and
needs to talk. When I surveyed and interviewed around four
hundred Australian teenage girls, the overwhelming thing they wanted parents
to know was I just need you to listen to me.

(00:26):
Today's podcast is about what we're doing wrong and how
to get listening right. Hello and welcome to the Happy
Families Podcast. My name is doctor Justin Coulson. It's real
Parenting Solutions every day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast.
And for your weekend listening pleasure, I have an author, facilitator,
speaker NLP. That's Neurolinguistic Programming coach, a man who has

(00:50):
worked as a successful business consultant, leadership coach, a master's
degree in communication management. His name is Ross Judd. His
book is called Listening, a Guide to Building Deeper Connections.
So good to have you on the podcast today, Ross,
Thank you for taking the time out. Here's my first
question for you, why listen? Why listen? Like as parents,

(01:13):
as adults, when we're talking to people, we demand it,
our kids need it. Why listen?

Speaker 2 (01:20):
The short answer is because it's the only way to
communicate to that person that you understand, and it's the
only way to connect with them at a deep and
genuine level. There's a quote that I use a lot
that I got from Stephen Covey that talks about understanding
how much we crave understanding. It's the deepest hunger of
the human heart. And so that ability if we can

(01:43):
learn to listen effectively, and part of that skill needs
to be rephrasing what that person said. I call it summarizing.
If we learn to summarize what that person has said,
we'll then demonstrate to that person that we've understood and
there's nothing they crave more.

Speaker 1 (01:59):
So what you're saying, I see what I did there.
There's the Submary right away. I feel like I'm on
fire already. So what you're saying is that when people
feel I'm Stephen Covey. I think it was him that
said the greatest human need is to be.

Speaker 2 (02:13):
Understood something like that.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
Said, Yeah, And what you're really saying is when we
give somebody the honor of being heard, they know that
they matter to us and their life is important, and
that we get where they're coming.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
From exactly, and we're acknowledging them.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Walk me through this in a really concrete way. When
have you listened and seen it make a difference.

Speaker 2 (02:38):
There's a great example I use with my daughter. So
one of the things I talk about is that this
is a specific context. So the depth of listening we're
talking about is not something you're going to do every day,
day to day. It's too much. So you will need
to look for the signs for is this a little
bit different? Is there a need here that I can satisfy.

(02:59):
And I had a situation like that with my daughter
where she started hanging around in the door out of
my office, and that was unusual behavior, and that's important
to notice. She normally just wanted to be and she
was about ten years old at the time. So I
got out of my chair sat on the floor because
I didn't want to be at my desk, and she
did the same. She came and sat opposite me, and
we looked at each other, and I was determined not

(03:19):
to make any of our normal mistakes, which is to
take over the conversation and start talking. So I just
waited and she eventually started talking. And my objective is
to let her talk and get to the point where
I can summarize, and the rule I have is trying
not to change the direction of this conversation. So I

(03:40):
just encouraged her with phrasers like now, tell me more, Okay,
what else, whatever, something along those lines, and she eventually
started talking about kids at school that, in her words,
were being mean to her, and my brain went nuts.
You know, I had all sorts of things in my
head about bullying, about stuff that had happened to me
when I was at school, all kinds of stuff. But

(04:00):
I stayed with her. Now I'll cut this story short.
That took a while, and I summarized what she was saying,
and she eventually got to a point where she asked
for some suggestions with that issue. So I gave her
a couple of suggestions. Have you thought about making other friends?
Do you think you should talk to the teachers? Have
you confronted them about what they're doing? And she'd done

(04:21):
all those things, so this was all under control. She
ten year old. She was on top of it, and
it was a wonderful experience for me to realize just
who she was, how thoughtful, how well she was managing
that situation. In those suggestions, I've kind of ran out
of ideas, and she was still asking for suggestions, and

(04:42):
I'm kind of looking at her and I thought, okay,
well I've run out of ideas, and so what I
do in that situation is I defer to somebody who's
smarter than me. So let's ask your mum what she thinks.
And that got a really bad reaction. No no, no,
no no, Please don't tell mom, Please don't tell mum
about this. So that was another trigger. This time, the

(05:02):
trigger was emotion that Okay, there's something serious going on here,
and it helped me realize that that opening conversation about
school that she had under control wasn't the thing that
had caused her to hang around my doorway. It was
now this conversation. So, to keep this story short, what
happened out of that? That took a while. This was slower,

(05:23):
she was harder to draw comments out of. Eventually she
opened up that she didn't appreciate some of the playful teasing.
So some of her mother's playful teasing was having an
adverse effect, and she just didn't feel like she could
talk to her without her mother trivializing it or you know,
just teasing her or doing something like that, and of

(05:45):
course I knew that was wrong. She absolutely could talk
to her mother, but I couldn't say that, didn't want
to disagree, didn't want to take it off course. Eventually
she got to a point where she asked me what
I thought she should do about that situation, and we
worked through a process where events the eye went and
shared the feedback with her mum. Her mum was in

(06:05):
the bedroom down the hall, and as I got there,
Emily had followed me down the passageway, and anyway, they
ended up reuniting, and it was a wonderful connection that
was reborn between the two of them, and it lasts
this day and their thickest theason. The daughter I'm talking
about is now in the mid twenties, so this is
a a while ago this story occurred. But a couple

(06:26):
of points to take out of that story and their
points that I'm trying to emphasize in this book. First
is that when somebody needs to talk, needs to be heard,
needs to be understood, they will give you some kind
of clue. So in this case, it was unusual behavior.

(06:47):
It might be emotion, it might be something else that
you're not doing this with strangers. You're doing this with
people that you know, and you'll be able to tell,
so you'll be able to tell that this is a
bit different. Then one of the rules is in this situation,
they never tell you the real issue. So if you
take the conversation, of course, you'll get basically, if you

(07:08):
dive into that first issue, do all of our classic mistakes,
you're going to miss that deeper issue that they are
desperate to talk to you about. And so this idea
of listening in a deep and meaningful way in those moments.
We're not doing this all the time. We'll do this
whenever we see the opportunity, which might only be once
or twice a year. It might just be once once

(07:29):
a month. If it happened once a month, it would
be happening a lot in my experience. So, yeah, the
point of that story is then when you get to
that deeper issue, you create a connection that's just wonderful,
absolutely wonderful.

Speaker 1 (07:41):
Okay, here's what I pulled out of that number one.
Just wait. Yes, it's so so common that kids will say,
my parents aren't really great at listening. They're really great
at hearing me say something and then telling me what
to do or really great at talking. Something that you
said was that you let her guide the conversation. I'm
using my words, not yours. There's a phrase that I

(08:03):
will use when I'm talking to parents about this, and
that is that we should take the ride, not the wheel.
She's the one that's steering it. She's the one that's
determining where to go. Our jobs to sit in the
passenger seat and let them drive, because they will eventually
eventually drive us to the destination of their choosing the
one that they really need to get to in their
own time. And the third thing, actually, there were two

(08:25):
other things that I picked up as I was listening
to your story Ross. The first is that the answers
are inside the kids. We've just she'd already figured out
all the answers to the initial issue, but even that
second issue. As you worked with her, she became willing
to number one, listen to you, but number two figure
out for herself what felt right, which did mean going

(08:47):
to her mum. But ultimately, this idea that you've come
back to a couple of times, often when there's a
big thing going on, our children will disguise it, they'll
hide it. It might be hidden in behavior. It might be
hidden in false stories, it might be hidden in tired
or I just want to play on my phone. But
there's that underlying issue and I don't Again, I don't
quite remember the words you used. But I encourage parents

(09:09):
to simply say, Okay, is there anything else you want
to chat about? Is there anything else you want to
tell me? Because wow, there's always that thing there, but
listening to what you said as well. Not everything needs
to be emotion coached. One of the things that I
see happening with the gentle parenting craze that has swept
across families over the last few years is this feeling

(09:30):
that every time a child has an emotion, we need
to get down and try to unpack and therapeutically address
everything that's happening in their lives. And sometimes it's okay
as a parent, say come on, let's just go like
you don't have to do this all the time.

Speaker 2 (09:44):
I totally agree, And it's hard for parents. The you know,
when that child is born, they are completely dependent on you,
so you are all things to that individual, and then
there's a whole process they're going to go through, is
they evolve and become their own person, and I think
one of the challenges for parents is to be absolutely
enthralled by that. Like I would encourage parents to look

(10:07):
for that, you know that learn about them, and these
conversations are the best way to learn about them. I
learned so much in that example about my daughter and
just how capable and assured and you know, how wonderful
she is. But it's hard because you know, I want
to be the you know, we're in control just about
every aspect of their life early in their life, and
then we're giving up that control. But the idea is

(10:31):
we're creating a human being, and we should be absolutely
fascinated by that human being because they're just amazing.

Speaker 1 (10:45):
His name is Ross Judd. His book is called Listening,
a Guide to Building Deeper Connections. Let's talk about the
biggest mistakes parents make when it comes to listening. We've
already sort of addressed several of them, and you just
raised another one as you talk talked about control. But
if you were to put together your list of the
top five things to stop doing when you're supposed to

(11:07):
be listening, what would you.

Speaker 2 (11:08):
Describe top five things when you're supposed to be listening?
I'll come back. First is recognize the context. So listening
for me, we use the word listening, We just use
that one word or you know, one hundred different contexts.
And first is recognize the context. Is this different? Have

(11:28):
they behaved differently? Do we need a different approach, are
they in a mood? Whatever it might be, is this different? So,
and then make your decisions about what you need to
do based on the context. So, if you're listening and
you want to get to that deeper issue, then you've
got to stop almost everything that you do, asking questions,

(11:52):
telling stories. You know, we love to share our I
had that experience, you know, to share those stories, being opinionated,
telling them what they should do. The action planning. I've
even in workshops talked about this idea of getting to
the deeper issue and had the action planning. It was
a guy specialists. That's going to take too long, you're kidding, right,

(12:16):
like just getting to the wanting to just resolve and
be effective and get it done. All of these are
mistakes trying to solve that first problem. For all of
its mistake, the only thing that works in this setting
is listen, invite, and then summarize what they're saying it,
keep it simple, repeat back what they're saying, and do
your best not to do anything that changes the direction

(12:39):
of the conversation.

Speaker 1 (12:40):
Are there any other big mistakes that you see parents
or couples make when it comes to dealing with emotional
conversations or just even I know you said we're talking
about a deeper form of listening, but even listening in general,
anything else sort of stand out to ross?

Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yeah, look, absolutely, And it can all come down to
one thing. What happens in the human in our system
is that when somebody else talks, our brain talks, right,
and it talks and you know this constantly. Yeah, I
mean the stats I've seen is that our brain can
think at ten times the speed that someone else can talk. So,

(13:16):
just while I'm saying this sentence, you've had ten other thoughts, right,
And some of that will be your experience, some of
that will be other people you've interviewed, Some of that
will be all sorts of things. That is just the
biggest problem that we have because it generates all of
the big mistakes. And so whatever it might be, even
if you're in the kitchen and the kid says something,
your brain will react and go down a track, or

(13:37):
your partner says something and your brain reacts and goes
down a track, and you could be completely fabricating something
that just doesn't exist, that issue of your inner thoughts
going the way they go.

Speaker 1 (13:51):
You know, it's just Yeah, as a compulsive communicator, which
I am, interviewing people on my podcast is one of
the hardest things that I have to do. And the
reason that it's so hard is because I'm forced to listen.
And I have to listen because otherwise I miss something
that you say, which means the conversation doesn't flow, or

(14:14):
I ask a question that you've already answered that there's
somebody and yet I'm listening to what you're saying and
I'm thinking, Oh, there's a great line, or there's a
great quote, or there's a great story, or there's a
great principle that I could share that would add to
this or let me there's this experience or I mean,
my mind is constantly and it's also hang on how
we're going for time and at the level the audio levels, right,

(14:36):
there's there's the multitasking. Monkey brain goes absolutely bonkers when
we're dealing with emotion. On top of that, like if
we're talking to one of our kids, we're talking to
her husband and wife, our partner. It's it's so hard
to stay in the moment, isn't it. It's so hard
to be right there and simply focused on what they're

(14:56):
saying and letting them say it. It's got to be
on the hardest, and especially with kids or a partner,
to not take control.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
I mean, I would say there's probably not many things
that are harder to do in our experience, like as humans,
that has to be one of the hardest things that
we could ever do. That ability to just keep your
mind out of the equation and focus on what they're
saying is just incredibly difficult. And the only way I've

(15:28):
personally found to do it is by this concept of summarizing.
So when I really need to listen to someone, it's
like a conscious thought process that almost hurts, you know.
I'm concentrating on what they're saying and repeating it back
in my head so I can repeat it back when

(15:48):
they're finished, and summarize what they've said when they're finished.
It's the only way I've found to quieten all of
I refer to them as monkeys as well. It's like
you've got monkeys chattering away in your brain. It's the
only way to quiet those voices is.

Speaker 1 (16:02):
Just let's talk about that summarizing thing for just a moment.
It's clearly key to effective listening. You've highlighted it, you've
written about it in the book, and yet it feels
so techniquey, it feels so strategy ish. Now, I also

(16:23):
have taught this many, many many times to people and
also help them to make it feel not false or
not feel like a technique. Psychologists would normally call it
active listening. That is, somebody says something and then you
say it back to them. What have you found to
be an effective way to help people to share that

(16:44):
summary in a way that doesn't feel like a technique,
that doesn't feel false, but rather feels like a genuine
contribution and even a gift to the conversation.

Speaker 2 (16:56):
Yeah. Great, So look I have two responses to that,
and you're right, this skill has been around a long time.
Active listening paraphrasing Stephen Covey call that faithful translation. There's
lots of names for it. My first comment in response
to that is, you have to remember their brain is
very occupied. They're thinking through what they're saying, they're saying

(17:19):
it slowly, they won't be as sensitive to it feeling
like a technique as you think. Most of the time,
they don't actually notice you notice, like if it genuinely
is a technique, you're doing it because you've learned it
as a technique, you're feeling that. But they won't be necessarily.
Their brain's pretty occupied with all the stuff that's going

(17:39):
on in their head. And then if you repeat something
back to them that vaguely resembles what they've said, they
will appreciate it so much. And in my experience, the
minute you start summarizing or paraphrasing, they'll if you get
it slightly wrong, they'll jump in, cut you off and
correct you because they want you to understand. They're desperty
you to understand. So that's the first one. The second

(18:02):
response to that is, it's actually why I just use
the term summarizing. That the most effective way I've found.
And I'm kind of hesitant to say this, but I
like what I call a summary question. So it's actually
a check as opposed to a technique or I'm just
repeating back what you've said. It's more of a So
you're saying that X Y Z. Now you're saying that

(18:24):
couples will struggle with this kind of technique, or somebody
using this technique may feel like it's a bit false
or fake.

Speaker 1 (18:32):
And my response is yes, and then you know.

Speaker 2 (18:35):
Right, exactly, And so when you phrase it as a question,
the person does respond very naturally, and it feels natural. Now,
the reason I hesitate to suggest a question is because
the minute people get the chance to ask a question,
they tend to then add other information into that question
and take the conversation a different direction. So that's the risk.
The summary question is beautiful, it works very well, but

(18:58):
you've got to be very disap and about just summarizing
and not adding in. Like you know, if your child
came and said, oh, I'm thinking about dropping out of university,
and okay, so you're thinking about dropping out of you
any what else are you going to do? Suddenly, now
we're down that track, that's right.

Speaker 1 (19:14):
And you'led and already yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (19:17):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
May I add one other strategy that I encourage chorus
to do. Tell me what you think of this one
and tell me if this if this fits well with
your model. I encourage parents to say what they see,
which is shorthand for essentially describing what they've just encountered.
So if we go to the I want to drop
out of school situation, I'm going to look at my

(19:40):
child and say, it sounds like school's really frustrating for
you at the moment, or it sounds like you've had
enough of this environment and you'd rather be anywhere but there.
And so I'm saying what I'm seeing. If I walk
into the room and the kids are fighting, I'm going
to walk in and say, I can see two very
upset children in front of me right now. And so
I'm I'm not sitting boundaries, I'm not derailing. I'm just
saying what I see, which is kind of a It's

(20:01):
a summary of where we are just now, and it
gives the kids an opportunity to give me the feedback
and to me where they're going. How does that? How
does that work for you? And is there anything that
you don't like about it?

Speaker 2 (20:13):
So it works really well, And yeah, I would probably
use a slightly different approach to for me, it's you're
taking a little bit of a guess and that may
or may not be accurate.

Speaker 1 (20:23):
But as you said before, they always correct you if
you're wrong.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
Correct, that's right. And so that's why it's not such
a big deal. And the fact that you're there and
you're engaged and you're having a guess. I emphasize that
big time. Don't worry about it if you get it wrong,
because they are desperate to correct you.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
That's right every time.

Speaker 2 (20:38):
So that example you used where you know I can
see some yet you're frustrated, I would just they came
and said, I'm thinking about dropping out of school. I
would keep it much more open. So, okay, tell me more.

Speaker 1 (20:48):
Tell me more. Yeah, that's what you're thinking of. Yeah,
yeahudn't use it in that context, to be honest, but yeah, yeah, Russ,
let's still a lightning round. I have a handful of fun. Well,
it's a provocative and some of them are quite thoughtful
questions for you, And what I'd love you to do
is answer them in one or two words or sentences,
keep it really short. People really struggle with this. I'm

(21:10):
not gonna lie, but let's see how we go. What's
the weirdest thing that you've learned by truly listening to someone.

Speaker 2 (21:18):
The weirdest thing is the way people interpret information and
Sometimes I hear them answer a question that it's like
sorry or tell me something, and I'm like, I would
never have interpreted.

Speaker 1 (21:28):
That like that. Yeah, that's not the question I asked.
How did you.

Speaker 2 (21:31):
End up there? How did you get there? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (21:33):
If listening was a superpower, what would be its kryptonite?

Speaker 2 (21:38):
Talking?

Speaker 1 (21:39):
Hmm? Okay, I would go with tech, but I think
you're probably right with talking between your ears and your mouth.
Which one do you think most people need to upgrade?

Speaker 2 (21:51):
There is?

Speaker 1 (21:52):
I had a feeling you'd say that, Yeah, what's a
sign that someone is pretending to listen but actually isn't.

Speaker 2 (21:59):
Look at it their phone or doing anything that's distracting
that is a distraction for them? Or if you watch them,
you can just see they're busting to say something right right, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
that's that's a clue.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
They're not in the going ha ha. But they're really
almost almost jumping into your lap to talk.

Speaker 2 (22:18):
Yes, yes, And that means something's triggered in their brain
and they just want to say it.

Speaker 1 (22:23):
I hope you like this. Next lightning round question, this
was my favorite one of all. If you could magically
make everyone in the world really listen, to one person
for five minutes. Who would you want them to listen
to their partner?

Speaker 2 (22:38):
Huh, that's my first thought. It's their partner. Yep.

Speaker 1 (22:43):
What's the most dangerous phrase that indicates that someone has
stopped listening?

Speaker 2 (22:48):
Whatever?

Speaker 1 (22:50):
Oh, that's a good one. That's a good one. I
was going with, if you would just listen to me
for a moment. But whatever is that? That's there's such
an awfulness to that one. How would our political landscape
change if politicians were physically unable to speak until they
had fully understood the other's argument.

Speaker 2 (23:11):
I would love that so much. I actually think at
a deep level, if we listened to each other, and
particularly in politics, we could find a much better solution.
I actually think the political landscape would be that they
would actually work towards what's best for the country rather
than what's best for them and their party.

Speaker 1 (23:31):
Here's my last lightning round question for you. What is
one sound that you wish more people would stop and
truly listen to?

Speaker 2 (23:41):
Oh, one sound. It would be some sort of vocal utterance,
and it would be something hesitant, like a sound that
just but I can't put it down to one specific sound,
but something that's unusual for that person and makes it
clear that they're hesitant, or that they're unsure of themselves,

(24:02):
or that there's something else here could just be or
something like that. Yeah. Sorry, that's not a great answer. Ross.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
This is my last question for you as we discuss
your book, Listening a Guide to Building Deeper Connections. How
can we listen better? If I'm a mum or a dad,
a husband or a wife or a partner listen to
this podcast interview. There's already been a whole lot of
really useful nuggets, but how can we listen better?

Speaker 2 (24:33):
I would put that in three steps. First one is,
don't try to do it all the time. Don't try
to listen better every single minute of every day. That's
just late. You know, that's just too hard. So look
for and recognize the moments. Look for those special moments
when you can tell there's a deeper issue. There's a
whole chapter dedicated to explaining what they are. And there's

(24:54):
lots of clues and hints that people give you, and
the most common one is either emotion or that they're
behaving in an unusual way. Second one is, then when
you engage in that moment, just engage just be quiet,
shut up, let them talk, and just use neutral tell

(25:15):
me more, and then when they start talking, summarize. That
would be it for me. Three simple steps. Recognize this
is a moment when I can do something different and
really connect. Just engage with that person. Put away the phone,
put away the laptop, stop whatever you're doing, and then summarize.
When they start opening up, summarize what they're saying.

Speaker 1 (25:37):
Ross Jad the author of Listening, a Guide to building
Deeper Connections. It's been a pleasure listening to you today
on the Happy Families podcast.

Speaker 2 (25:44):
Thank you, It's been awesome.

Speaker 1 (25:46):
If you'd like more information about Ross's book, Listening, we
will link to it in the show notes. The Happy
Family's podcast is produced by Justin Roland from Bridge Media.
If you'd like more information and more resources to make
your family happier, check out Ross's book or visit Happy
Families dot com dot a u mm hmm.