May 27, 2026 • 29 mins
Knowing how hiring works does not prepare you for what job hunting actually feels like right now. Today’s guest, Nicole, found that out the hard way. She has spent 30 years on the hiring side of the table. She has interviewed hundreds of candidates, read thousands of applications, and knows exactly what good looks like. So when she re-entered the job market after a six-month sabbatical, she found herself starting from scratch.
Nicole, a senior executive, knew how the game used to work. What she didn't know was how much it had changed. AI-generated resumes flooding inboxes. Applicant tracking systems filtering on past performance. Three or four hundred applications for every role, most of them indistinguishable from one another. The playbook she had built over decades wasn't quite fitting the game anymore.
This episode is part of The Work Edit, a new format on How I Work where I sit down with someone facing a real professional challenge and we work through it together. Nicole came to me wanting help with the part of job hunting that was giving her the most trouble: getting from application to shortlist. We get practical about what actually works right now, from why a written application might be the weakest version of your pitch, to how to use AI to run your own mock interview and genuinely sharpen your performance in ways most people never bother doing.
If you are currently in the job market, or know someone who is, this one is worth sharing.
We discuss:
- Why the job market has shifted so dramatically in the last few years, and what that means for experienced candidates re-entering the workforce
- How applicant tracking systems work and why they tend to filter out people with non-linear careers or future-focused skills
- The case for treating your job search as a sales role, and what that reframe actually changes about how you show up
- Why a short video pitch cuts through in a way that a written application simply cannot right now, and what makes the difference between a video that opens doors and one that falls flat
- What AI fluency actually looks like in a resume or cover letter, and how to find and remove the tells that signal lazy prompting to any recruiter paying attention
- How to use AI to run your own mock interview, and why stopping short of the critique step means leaving most of the value on the table
Key quotes
"If you're not AI fluent, why would you be considered for a job in this day and age?"
"I think if you are purely relying on your resume and cover letter being the best out of 400 applications, that is a losing game."
My latest book The Energy Game is out on July 7, 2026. You can order a copy here: https://amzn.to/48ID29M
Connect with me on the socials: Linkedin (
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Most of us treat job hunting like a writing exercise.
Polish the resume, titan, the cover letter, maybe run it
through AI one more time, and then we wait. But
here's the thing. If three hundred other people are doing
exactly the same thing, probably with the same AHI tools,
(00:21):
you are not standing out. You're just adding to a
very well worded pile of resumes. This episode is part
of a new format that we're trying on how I Work,
called the work Edit, where I sit down with someone
navigating a real challenge and we work through it together.
(00:42):
My guest today, Nicole, is the senior executive who took
a six month sabbatical and returned to the job market
expecting to know how it worked, and she didn't. A
lot has changed, and in this episode we get into
the tactics that actually work right now, starting with why
your job application is really a sales pitch and why
(01:05):
words on a page might be the weakest version of
that pitch you could make. We also get into AI fluency,
what recruit is actually looking for, and how to use
AI to sharpen your interview performance in ways most people
never bother to do. This episode is for anyone who's
currently in the job market by choice or not, and
(01:28):
please share it with anyone you know who could do
with a bit of help and guidance. Welcome to How
I Work, a show about habits, rituals, and strategies for
optimizing your date. I'm your host, doctor Amantha imber Nicole.
(01:54):
Tell me what's going on right now, what prompted you
to reach out.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
At the moment. I'm an executive who's worked thirty years.
I've worked across the globe. I've worked in Australia, I've
worked regionally across a broad number of function sectors roles.
After taking about a six months sabbatical last year, I've
now at the point where I'm re entering the job market.
And I thought, being a senior executive, having hired hundreds
of people and obviously applied for different roles, I knew
(02:21):
how the job hunting market actually worked. Turns out I don't.
It's changed a lot in the last ten years, and
I would love your help to try and resolve or
improve that sort of application to shortlisting phase of job hunting,
which I feel at the moment is the weakest part
of my toolkit, if you like. And I know from
(02:43):
talking to others in the same boat. They share that
problem as well.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Okay, to understand more about what that experience is like,
because it's been twenty years since I've applied for a job,
which I was unsuccessful in those job applications, and that's
why I started in Vantium. So there you go. It's
not a rare story. I know, I know, and I
am on the hiring side. It happen for twenty years
and I don't know, I've probably hired fifty or sixty
(03:09):
people over that time. So I am curious, like, what
is job hunting like right now in this world of AI.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
I mean, I think a lot of things have changed
in the last decade. You have LinkedIn now plays a
very different role obviously to ten years ago. Everyone's using
it for a whole host of reasons, essentially a live
resume and a networking tool that's really useful these days.
I know skis experiencing more applications for every job than
they ever have before. So there's a high volume of
(03:40):
people applying, can be three four hundred people a job.
But the big thing is AI, if I'm honest, and
as always, AI has positives and negatives in terms of
what it's done to the job hunting process. But part
of the problem is everyone's using AI. Now you start
to sound the same and as I said, there's a
higher volume than ever before. So there's this flood of
(04:01):
almost perfect and undifferentiated resumes. And to deal with that,
what a lot of organizations have done will continue to do.
I assume is use ATS tools, which is automatic tracking systems.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
And what is an automatic tracking system?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Well, I don't know, I am no expert, but it's basically,
if a you send your application to a recruiter, they
put it in a database and then when they have
an opportunity, they will search their database. That's what the
ATS this tracking system does, and it's a bit of
a black hold. A lot of people don't understand what's involved.
For example, my resume until about a week ago was
(04:38):
a PDF with columns, a table, pretty nice looking, I
think because I've got a design bent. I've recently learned
that ATS doesn't really pass those type of resumes. The
advice is no tables, no columns, word document, old fashioned
work experience, skills education. But I think the biggest problem
(05:02):
is it filters based on pattern recognition, so it's been
designed to think the best applicant for a role is
based on past performance of someone who's done the role before.
And as you know, the other big change with they
are is there's a whole different skill set that people
will need going into the future, the curiosity, critical thinking, creativity.
(05:25):
That future potential is not captured by ATS and most
a tools that do pattern recognition on past performance. So
this is part of the problem. Number one, how do
you differentiate when you're applying for a role when there's
a flood of perfect resumes at all look the same
and use the same language. And then two, how do
(05:46):
you get through an ATS before you even a human
even gets to see your application. It's great when you
get to the shortlist, but how do you get to
that point?
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Thank you for patting that context, Nicole. There's some things
there that I have no idea how to help with,
like how do you stand out amongst these applicant tracking
systems where you've essentially got a robot screening resumes with
very specific criteria that you can't influence, and assuming that
(06:15):
the majority of people know this, they're all just going
to be having fantastic resumes. And I also think that
that is a problem for employers as well, because if
that is how you are recruiting, just going past experience
on the job is going to predict future experience in
this AI enabled world. I personally think that's kind of
a little bit of madness. But I can't influence that
(06:37):
in terms of you know, so what I want to
do is perhaps think about where can we have impact
because I don't have tips for how to do a
better resume or cover letter, because I think you know,
everyone is using AI to do that. And look, presumably
if you're doing it, well, you're probably creating GP and
(07:00):
chat GPT or a project in claude and uploading your
very specific information about the company, the job description and
obviously your background and working with that agent or GPT
or whatever to craft something that is absolutely bang on.
And for me, that's just that's just hygiene factor in
terms of that, and I'm sure that you're already doing that, Nicole.
(07:23):
So where I think that AI can help us stand
out is where we have access to a human that
is making the decision, Because I think if you don't
have access to a human that's making the decision, it's
really hard to influence the robots and stand out because
generally the ways to stand out are going to be
(07:45):
you being creative and robots don't really like that kind
of stuff in terms.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Of how they not the way the systems exist at
the moment.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yeah, So one thing I think is really helpful, and
I use this at Inventium because you know, we are
trying to sell ourselves all the time, Like I spend
a large part of my week in sales meetings and
trying to influence people to choose Inventium or Inventium AI
to do their corporate training, which is what we do,
whether that be in AI or productivity, innovation, whatever. And
(08:17):
so I think about sales and influence a lot, and
essentially looking for a job, that's a sales role that
you're in right now. And for those listening that are
looking for a job, you are a salesperson. That for
me is the best way to think about it. And
your number one task is to sell yourself and influence
the people that you need to influence. So one of
the ways and I actually I spoke about this with
(08:39):
a guest, Sabri Subi, maybe a couple of months ago,
and he talked about this concept of video sales letters,
where something that he does is he doesn't sell just
through words. He sells through videos. And that is something
that we've been doing at Inventium probably for the last
I want to say, maybe nine to twelve months. And
(08:59):
we've also I think and I've also seen it on
the candidate side of things, where instead of just getting
words on a digital shede of paper, we will get
a video. And in this world of AI, I mean,
the human and communication skills matters so much more than
many other skills that previously were particularly important. And because
(09:22):
you're applying for executive positions, I mean your ability to
communicate and persuade and inspire and obviously to think. But
I mean so many of those in really important qualities
for an exact position comes through not in the written form.
So let me explain how we do it in invent Him.
What I will do my sales process is I will
(09:44):
have a sales meeting sometimes a few like to really
unpack my clients need to do a proper needs analysis,
you know, and I guess, like the parallel and the
job market is really understanding the role and the organization
and their values and you know their mission and so forth.
I will then write a propose and we use software
called Quilla, which I really love. It's you know, really
(10:06):
nice to use it interface. And then what I will
do once I've written that proposal is I will use
software called Teller, so that's Tela dot tv I think
is URL, but I linked to that in the show notes.
And I will then record a video of myself that's
generally pretty short. It's generally like five to ten minutes,
basically walking the client through that sales proposal and bringing
(10:29):
it to life and talking about why I've made certain
design decisions or you know, why I've thought about their
problem and their context in this way, and you know,
even talking through things such as the pricing and the
different options that there are available. And I constantly get
like I've got a very high conversion rate. Is that
(10:50):
particular strategy, I guess? And I'm constantly getting feedback from
clients going that was so novel, Like we've never had
a proposal presented in that way. It's always just written,
it's a PDF or you know, PowerPoint or whatever, and
until the market gets flooded with video sales letters or
whatever we want to call them. I think right now
(11:11):
at this time where we're recording in May twenty twenty six.
I think that is a really great way to stand out,
literally a video of yourself selling yourself, and it doesn't
have to be fancy. I can just be recorded on
the iPhone. We've all got access to amazing cameras, you know,
on the back or front of our phones. And you know,
if you can make that really sharp and succinct and compelling,
(11:34):
and you can send that to the person that is
making a decision, I think that would go a really
really long way. And being on the receiving end of
you know, I would have read thousands of job applications
over the years, and typically Inventing, when we advertise, we
will generally get about three or four hundred people applying
for a role with us, and that's been pretty consistent,
even you know, before all the mass layoffs and stuff
(11:56):
that are going on now. People that have done something
creative are the ones that I think have almost one
hundred percent of the time gone to interview stage with us.
So tell me, like, what are your thoughts on that?
Is this something that you've tried or that you've thought about.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Trying to be honest, now I haven't tried it before,
I recognize what you're saying, I think there's a novelty piece.
I don't know how many of your applications at this
time are through video. What would you say?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Do you say many or one percent? Novelty? Still, it's
massive novelty. Still. We actually have our initial stage after
we've done a resume screen generally has something to do
on video. So if we're recruiting an inventiologist, which is
someone that is up the front of the room facilitating
our programs, that first stage after the resume and cover
(12:47):
letter screen is a video stage because we want to
see them. We want to put a face and a
vibe to that person as quickly as possible. So even
if you, you know, perhaps are comfortable in front of
a camera, in which cas I go, just practice and
practice and practice until you feel comfortable. Because communication is
(13:07):
so important in this day and age. Novelty in some way,
shape or form is also another way to make yourself
stand out. And it is yes, yeah, and again like
I have used this a lot over the years and
invent him, you know, with different sales proposals that I've
been working on. I remember really early on in invent
Hum this would have been like in year two or three.
(13:28):
We were pitching for a massive global piece of work
with Kimberly Clark, who like make tissues, toilet pap and nappies,
like they're absolutely huge, and I remember what I did
for that proposal. I had to present to them face
to face, and I literally, instead of having a slide deck,
I wrote essentially my key messages on tissues that I
(13:49):
pulled out of a tissue box. And we ended up
winning the work, which is kind of crazy because we
were like we were a tiny we were a company
of me and maybe a couple of contractors, and this
was to hundreds of people all around the world with
Kimberly Clark, so you know that really was actually quite
instrumental in Inventium's early years. But yeah, I still I
still remember like writing with the text out on these
(14:11):
tissues and going, this is so hard. I hope that this.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Off anyway, especially for an organization like yours, which is
all around creativity obviously and thinking a little bit differently.
I've actually only had one experience in the last well
forever actually where I got a candidate a video and
I did take the time to watch the video, but
(14:35):
I'd have to say it was a little dry, a
little long, but it was enough to have a conversation,
so it opened the door. But I do think how
you do that is so important as well, isn't it.
And the more you can tie it into the problem
or the target, I think, the more powerful that would be.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Coming up next, we talk about what AI tells actually
look like in a resume and cover letter and why
they're immediately obvious to anyone hiring. We also talk about
how to use AI to run your own mock interview
and why most people stop short of the step that
actually sharpens performance. If you're looking for more tips to
(15:19):
improve the way you work, can live. I write a
short weekly newsletter that contains tactics I've discovered that have
helped me personally. You can sign up for that at
Amantha dot com. That's Amantha dot com. I think another
thing to be thinking about, like in that application stage,
(15:40):
is that I know, for me, when I'm reading through
cover letters, because I work with AI every day, it's
really obvious when someone has just put it through AI.
There's little human thought, and I'm generally very dismissive of
those kinds of cover letters. So I think just a
few things because I mean when I'm recruiting there now,
(16:00):
I'm looking for AI fluency. Also, having said that, because
we're an AI training company, it's pretty easy for me to,
you know, over the course of a few weeks get
someone to be incredibly fluent with AI. But I just
think for the leaders that I know that a recruiting
if you're not AI fluent, then I mean, why would
you be considered for a job in this day and age,
assuming that you're applying for a job with a fairly
(16:22):
progressive organization. So I think, where are the opportunities to
demonstrate your AI fluency as part of the process. And
what I mean here is thinking about wealth. Firstly, with
a cover letter, I think it is like if you
are not putting your cover letter that has been presumably
co created with AI through an anti AI writing agent,
(16:47):
where basically I think that everyone should have an agent
that basically scans for the AI tells to humanize their writing.
Obviously you should do this as a human and for me,
I would never put content out into the world that
I haven't given a human edit too. I just think
that that's you know, careless and disrespectful, but at very
least because particularly for those that are not good at
(17:08):
seeing the AI tells. If they're not good at working
with AI every day, they won't see them, but a
recruiter will because they are seeing these AI slot cover
letters every day. So I'd definitely be doing that. But
I'd also be thinking, you know, assuming that you are
AI fluent, and if you're not, I highly recommend you know,
investing in some kind of training, whether it's with inventing
your AI or elsewhere, to get yourself up to a
(17:30):
level of fluency. Is you know, thinking, you know, could
you vibe code your application, like could you get on
reput or Lovable or you know, any of the vibe
coding apps. I think, you know, I've heard about people
you know, doing a lot of vibe coding through Claude
and you know, just some of the normal mainstream AI
platforms to demonstrate something that is important in the job.
Because again, I think that that is another way to
(17:51):
stand out and produce a more creative application where you're
showing that you have a really good command of AI.
So I think that really matters. And just picking up
on what you're saying around like you received a video
application and just kind of fell flat. That is where
like if you are not someone that is used to
being in front of a camera or comfortable communicating in
(18:14):
a way that you know that's going to be compelling
and engaging, I would not send through your first take.
I'd be doing a take and I would be giving
it to friends to critique watch it yourself, which I
know for most people watching yourself on video, Yeah, it's
it's like you know, if fingernails down a blackboard, and
even just listening to a recording of ourselves speaking for
(18:37):
most people is absolutely painful. I've got through that threshold
thanks to lots of air checks for this podcast and
having to listen back to myself. But just get used
to it, because it is the best way to improve,
I think, for any kind of task involving video communication
or even just you know, oral communication, videotape yourself doing
(19:00):
it and critique yourself. It's painful, but it's so effective.
Like I remember, gosh, this would have been what ad
I nearly twenty five years ago. It was before Inventium,
and I was working in an AD agency and we
had a presentation skills trainer come in and spend spend
the day with us. And one of the things that
they got us to do was do a short five
(19:21):
to ten minute presentation on something I think it was
just like something more passionate about, and he videotaped all
of us, and then our homework that night was to
watch the video, critique ourselves, and then come back the
next day and do the presentation again. And I'd never
done that before, like I was my early on mid
twenties or something like that, and it was super painful.
(19:44):
But I remember that course so well, and I just thought, wow,
that sort of that moment, that activity was one of
the most powerful things I've ever done in terms of
feedback and improving how I presented it and how I spoke.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
I'm curiously because at the moment, the resume is an
artifact that you cannot ignore.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
There are many ways that you can put yourself in
the job hunting, and the resume is far from the
only tool, but it is an essential tool. So, from
someone who's working with AI, to your point about showing
AI fluency in the job application process, how do you
suggest you might do that in a resume? What would
be convincing to you as an employer when you get
(20:28):
that resume that says this person understands AI, because I
think that's a really very relevant and real question for
a lot of job hunters today.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
I think the biggest thing for me is that it
doesn't have AI tells in it, which I don't know
if that sounds really basic, But if I can see
AI tells in a resume, then I'm questioning what was
the human involvement? How much of this is a lie?
How much of this was a really average prompting job,
because they might have actually done the first draft as
(20:57):
a human and told AI to clean it up. AI
has inserted a bunch of AI tells. And by the way,
by AI tells, I'm talking about you know, the specific
font that AI will use when you copy and paste
output into a word document, or you know, an overuse
of M dashes and over use of like capitalizing all
the heading certain words that AI loves, the uncomfortable truth. Yeah,
(21:21):
all that sort of stuff like that. You know that
you see on LinkedIn posts where clearly AI has had
more of an input than the human. So that is
what I would be looking for. AI used badly, right.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
So always have that human oversight. Potentially you've ben put
your resume in front of someone else just to read it.
And arguably someone who understands AI and al tells.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
It has to be someone who understands AI because a
lot of people still don't know the AI tells. And
I've read some research the other day that those that
use AI more more skilled seeing the AI tells, which
of course makes complete logical sense. So making sure you're
putting your resume in front of someone who knows the
AI tells. And of course the AI is very good
(22:04):
at identifying the AI tells, So why wouldn't you just
ask the AI to identify where all the AI tels
and then using your human brain to go, great, I'm
going to change them and humanify that if you like. Now,
I think the other area where AI can play a
really important role, and I know that the challenge for
a lot of people is actually getting to interview stage,
(22:25):
but I think this is where AI can really really
help because previously, you know, people might you know, if
they were quite conscientious, they would do a role play
with a friend or the partner or something like that.
AI is really brilliant for doing role plays with and
using advanced voice mode, like where you're having an actual
conversation with the AI is obviously the best way to
(22:47):
do it. But thinking about you know, firstly, how you're
prompting the AI, Like if it were me you applying
for a job, I would be setting up a project.
For every role or organization that I'm a play for,
I would be feeding it, certainly the most recent annual report,
possibly the last two annual reports. I would be getting
(23:08):
it to scan through the company's website, understand what's their mission,
vision values, looking at the last six months of headlines
in the news, feeding that in about the organization, of course,
feeding in the job description and the job ad and
anything else that I could get my hands on. And
(23:29):
then I would be prompting it to act as a recruiter,
ask me fifteen to twenty questions that it would predict
that I would get asked, and maybe throwing in another
ten that were really hard questions to answer, and then
doing that role play with the AI, and then getting
it to critique my responses. And I think that critique
(23:50):
is really important, Like, I'm sure there are a lot
of people listening that are role playing with the AI
before a job interview, but they're possibly stopping short at
that critique and then listening to that critique, going again
through those questions and getting another round of critique. And
I think that's where you'll really sharpen your performance. If
you can be doing that practice like that, you know,
(24:13):
I would even be thinking about things like how can
I tell stories in a more engaging way, because ultimately
a job interview, if you're doing like a standard behavioral
interview where it's like, tell me about a time, When
thinking about how do you tell a story, like you
can share the same ingredients if you like, for how
you behaved in a certain situation, but if you tell
(24:34):
it in a really masterful storytelling version versus here are
just the facts. Because everyone is human and we all
have biases, a lot of unconscious biases. The more compelling
story is going to win. It's to get a higher grade.
I think what the fun thing that I would add
because I think if you are purely relying on your
(24:57):
resume and cover letter being the best resume and cover
letter of four hundred applications that an organization is receiving,
I think that is a losing game. I think, like
I don't know, and you know, with all my knowledge
of how to use AI really well, I don't like
my chances of getting to the short list because of
how myopically some of that software is trained in terms
(25:18):
of you know, this person must have this specific skill
set and this much experience in this specific industry and
so on. So I would absolutely be spending my time
trying to find out who are the humans that are
influencing the decision and trying to connect with them directly
in some way other than just your bog standard LinkedIn
(25:41):
letter like I would be sending them. You know, you
can send voice messages on LinkedIn, and I know for me,
I am inundated with sales messages on LinkedIn, Like my
LinkedIn inbox is an absolute disaster, and it's a really
depressing place because everyone's just trying to sell me stuff
with really generic emails. And I can imagine that, you know,
if I'm in charge of talent acquisition or if I'm
(26:02):
a recruiter at a really desirable organization, my inbox is
going to be flattered. And so then you know, again
I'm thinking, how can I stand out, How can I
connect with that human. Maybe that's through an audio message.
Maybe I have created a TeleVideo of me saying hi
to them and talking about why I would love to
connect with them or whoever is hiring for this role.
(26:23):
Just something to give myself the edge is absolutely what
I would be were doing in that that tricky middle stage. Yeah, so, Nicle,
we've talked about a few things. I would love to
know what is resonating with you most and what will
you do differently in the next seven days. Yeah, a
good question.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
And I like that you've time boxed it so I
am accountable for making it happen, which is excellent. I
think I'm going to try the video approach. I might
choose a new search firm or a recruiter that I
have in contacted before, or maybe get back in contact
with someone I haven't spoken in a while. I'll think
about who would be a good time target, and I
(27:01):
might try a very short video and I'll have to
reflect a little bit further, and I will use Claude
to help me think through that in terms of what's
the message I want to say and what's the outcome
and what will click with that person. So, for example,
I'm just thinking to someone right now, there's a recruiter
who specializes in health. That's a sector that I would
like to move into. It's hugely disrupted. I'm someone who
(27:24):
thrives in change and transformation. But when I spoke to
her last time, which was a while ago, she said,
have you worked in health before? And I had to
say no, But I did go into adjacencies and similar
experience that could be transferable. But the question wasn't that,
It was have you worked in health before? So that's
maybe one of the challenges I'm going to try and
(27:45):
work around in this video. To your point about being
a salesperson, how can I pitch my skills and experience
or potentially even my way of leading my attributes in
terms of that future forward approach as opposed to past
experience approach. How am I going to pitch that to
her in a short, succinct and differentiated way. I think
(28:07):
that's a really good challenge like that.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Well, Nicole, I will be checking in with you in
seven days to say how you went. So thank you
so much coming on how I work and sharing what's
going on right now.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Pleasure.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
I hope that this episode was helpful if you're currently
in the job market and this is a new format
for how I work, so please send me your feedback.
I would love to know if you found it helpful
and if you would like to submit your challenge to
be part of the work edit, My email is in
the show notes. Finally, if you want to go deeper
(28:45):
on using AI throughout the whole job search process, from
finding hidden roles to interview prep, check out the how
I Ai episode called how to Use AI to Find
a New Job, which I will link to in the
show notes. If you like today's show, make sure you
get follow on your podcast app to be alerted when
(29:05):
new episodes drop. How I Work was recorded on the
traditional land of the Warringery people, part of the Kulan nation.
Most of us treat job hunting like a writing exercise.
Polish the resume, titan, the cover letter, maybe run it
through AI one more time, and then we wait. But
here's the thing. If three hundred other people are doing
exactly the same thing, probably with the same AHI tools,
(00:21):
you are not standing out. You're just adding to a
very well worded pile of resumes. This episode is part
of a new format that we're trying on how I Work,
called the work Edit, where I sit down with someone
navigating a real challenge and we work through it together.
(00:42):
My guest today, Nicole, is the senior executive who took
a six month sabbatical and returned to the job market
expecting to know how it worked, and she didn't. A
lot has changed, and in this episode we get into
the tactics that actually work right now, starting with why
your job application is really a sales pitch and why
(01:05):
words on a page might be the weakest version of
that pitch you could make. We also get into AI fluency,
what recruit is actually looking for, and how to use
AI to sharpen your interview performance in ways most people
never bother to do. This episode is for anyone who's
currently in the job market by choice or not, and
(01:28):
please share it with anyone you know who could do
with a bit of help and guidance. Welcome to How
I Work, a show about habits, rituals, and strategies for
optimizing your date. I'm your host, doctor Amantha imber Nicole.
(01:54):
Tell me what's going on right now, what prompted you
to reach out.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
At the moment. I'm an executive who's worked thirty years.
I've worked across the globe. I've worked in Australia, I've
worked regionally across a broad number of function sectors roles.
After taking about a six months sabbatical last year, I've
now at the point where I'm re entering the job market.
And I thought, being a senior executive, having hired hundreds
of people and obviously applied for different roles, I knew
(02:21):
how the job hunting market actually worked. Turns out I don't.
It's changed a lot in the last ten years, and
I would love your help to try and resolve or
improve that sort of application to shortlisting phase of job hunting,
which I feel at the moment is the weakest part
of my toolkit, if you like. And I know from
(02:43):
talking to others in the same boat. They share that
problem as well.
Speaker 1 (02:46):
Okay, to understand more about what that experience is like,
because it's been twenty years since I've applied for a job,
which I was unsuccessful in those job applications, and that's
why I started in Vantium. So there you go. It's
not a rare story. I know, I know, and I
am on the hiring side. It happen for twenty years
and I don't know, I've probably hired fifty or sixty
(03:09):
people over that time. So I am curious, like, what
is job hunting like right now in this world of AI.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
I mean, I think a lot of things have changed
in the last decade. You have LinkedIn now plays a
very different role obviously to ten years ago. Everyone's using
it for a whole host of reasons, essentially a live
resume and a networking tool that's really useful these days.
I know skis experiencing more applications for every job than
they ever have before. So there's a high volume of
(03:40):
people applying, can be three four hundred people a job.
But the big thing is AI, if I'm honest, and
as always, AI has positives and negatives in terms of
what it's done to the job hunting process. But part
of the problem is everyone's using AI. Now you start
to sound the same and as I said, there's a
higher volume than ever before. So there's this flood of
(04:01):
almost perfect and undifferentiated resumes. And to deal with that,
what a lot of organizations have done will continue to do.
I assume is use ATS tools, which is automatic tracking systems.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
And what is an automatic tracking system?
Speaker 2 (04:15):
Well, I don't know, I am no expert, but it's basically,
if a you send your application to a recruiter, they
put it in a database and then when they have
an opportunity, they will search their database. That's what the
ATS this tracking system does, and it's a bit of
a black hold. A lot of people don't understand what's involved.
For example, my resume until about a week ago was
(04:38):
a PDF with columns, a table, pretty nice looking, I
think because I've got a design bent. I've recently learned
that ATS doesn't really pass those type of resumes. The
advice is no tables, no columns, word document, old fashioned
work experience, skills education. But I think the biggest problem
(05:02):
is it filters based on pattern recognition, so it's been
designed to think the best applicant for a role is
based on past performance of someone who's done the role before.
And as you know, the other big change with they
are is there's a whole different skill set that people
will need going into the future, the curiosity, critical thinking, creativity.
(05:25):
That future potential is not captured by ATS and most
a tools that do pattern recognition on past performance. So
this is part of the problem. Number one, how do
you differentiate when you're applying for a role when there's
a flood of perfect resumes at all look the same
and use the same language. And then two, how do
(05:46):
you get through an ATS before you even a human
even gets to see your application. It's great when you
get to the shortlist, but how do you get to
that point?
Speaker 1 (05:54):
Thank you for patting that context, Nicole. There's some things
there that I have no idea how to help with,
like how do you stand out amongst these applicant tracking
systems where you've essentially got a robot screening resumes with
very specific criteria that you can't influence, and assuming that
(06:15):
the majority of people know this, they're all just going
to be having fantastic resumes. And I also think that
that is a problem for employers as well, because if
that is how you are recruiting, just going past experience
on the job is going to predict future experience in
this AI enabled world. I personally think that's kind of
a little bit of madness. But I can't influence that
(06:37):
in terms of you know, so what I want to
do is perhaps think about where can we have impact
because I don't have tips for how to do a
better resume or cover letter, because I think you know,
everyone is using AI to do that. And look, presumably
if you're doing it, well, you're probably creating GP and
(07:00):
chat GPT or a project in claude and uploading your
very specific information about the company, the job description and
obviously your background and working with that agent or GPT
or whatever to craft something that is absolutely bang on.
And for me, that's just that's just hygiene factor in
terms of that, and I'm sure that you're already doing that, Nicole.
(07:23):
So where I think that AI can help us stand
out is where we have access to a human that
is making the decision, Because I think if you don't
have access to a human that's making the decision, it's
really hard to influence the robots and stand out because
generally the ways to stand out are going to be
(07:45):
you being creative and robots don't really like that kind
of stuff in terms.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
Of how they not the way the systems exist at
the moment.
Speaker 1 (07:54):
Yeah, So one thing I think is really helpful, and
I use this at Inventium because you know, we are
trying to sell ourselves all the time, Like I spend
a large part of my week in sales meetings and
trying to influence people to choose Inventium or Inventium AI
to do their corporate training, which is what we do,
whether that be in AI or productivity, innovation, whatever. And
(08:17):
so I think about sales and influence a lot, and
essentially looking for a job, that's a sales role that
you're in right now. And for those listening that are
looking for a job, you are a salesperson. That for
me is the best way to think about it. And
your number one task is to sell yourself and influence
the people that you need to influence. So one of
the ways and I actually I spoke about this with
(08:39):
a guest, Sabri Subi, maybe a couple of months ago,
and he talked about this concept of video sales letters,
where something that he does is he doesn't sell just
through words. He sells through videos. And that is something
that we've been doing at Inventium probably for the last
I want to say, maybe nine to twelve months. And
(08:59):
we've also I think and I've also seen it on
the candidate side of things, where instead of just getting
words on a digital shede of paper, we will get
a video. And in this world of AI, I mean,
the human and communication skills matters so much more than
many other skills that previously were particularly important. And because
(09:22):
you're applying for executive positions, I mean your ability to
communicate and persuade and inspire and obviously to think. But
I mean so many of those in really important qualities
for an exact position comes through not in the written form.
So let me explain how we do it in invent Him.
What I will do my sales process is I will
(09:44):
have a sales meeting sometimes a few like to really
unpack my clients need to do a proper needs analysis,
you know, and I guess, like the parallel and the
job market is really understanding the role and the organization
and their values and you know their mission and so forth.
I will then write a propose and we use software
called Quilla, which I really love. It's you know, really
(10:06):
nice to use it interface. And then what I will
do once I've written that proposal is I will use
software called Teller, so that's Tela dot tv I think
is URL, but I linked to that in the show notes.
And I will then record a video of myself that's
generally pretty short. It's generally like five to ten minutes,
basically walking the client through that sales proposal and bringing
(10:29):
it to life and talking about why I've made certain
design decisions or you know, why I've thought about their
problem and their context in this way, and you know,
even talking through things such as the pricing and the
different options that there are available. And I constantly get
like I've got a very high conversion rate. Is that
(10:50):
particular strategy, I guess? And I'm constantly getting feedback from
clients going that was so novel, Like we've never had
a proposal presented in that way. It's always just written,
it's a PDF or you know, PowerPoint or whatever, and
until the market gets flooded with video sales letters or
whatever we want to call them. I think right now
(11:11):
at this time where we're recording in May twenty twenty six.
I think that is a really great way to stand out,
literally a video of yourself selling yourself, and it doesn't
have to be fancy. I can just be recorded on
the iPhone. We've all got access to amazing cameras, you know,
on the back or front of our phones. And you know,
if you can make that really sharp and succinct and compelling,
(11:34):
and you can send that to the person that is
making a decision, I think that would go a really
really long way. And being on the receiving end of
you know, I would have read thousands of job applications
over the years, and typically Inventing, when we advertise, we
will generally get about three or four hundred people applying
for a role with us, and that's been pretty consistent,
even you know, before all the mass layoffs and stuff
(11:56):
that are going on now. People that have done something
creative are the ones that I think have almost one
hundred percent of the time gone to interview stage with us.
So tell me, like, what are your thoughts on that?
Is this something that you've tried or that you've thought about.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Trying to be honest, now I haven't tried it before,
I recognize what you're saying, I think there's a novelty piece.
I don't know how many of your applications at this
time are through video. What would you say?
Speaker 1 (12:24):
Do you say many or one percent? Novelty? Still, it's
massive novelty. Still. We actually have our initial stage after
we've done a resume screen generally has something to do
on video. So if we're recruiting an inventiologist, which is
someone that is up the front of the room facilitating
our programs, that first stage after the resume and cover
(12:47):
letter screen is a video stage because we want to
see them. We want to put a face and a
vibe to that person as quickly as possible. So even
if you, you know, perhaps are comfortable in front of
a camera, in which cas I go, just practice and
practice and practice until you feel comfortable. Because communication is
(13:07):
so important in this day and age. Novelty in some way,
shape or form is also another way to make yourself
stand out. And it is yes, yeah, and again like
I have used this a lot over the years and
invent him, you know, with different sales proposals that I've
been working on. I remember really early on in invent
Hum this would have been like in year two or three.
(13:28):
We were pitching for a massive global piece of work
with Kimberly Clark, who like make tissues, toilet pap and nappies,
like they're absolutely huge, and I remember what I did
for that proposal. I had to present to them face
to face, and I literally, instead of having a slide deck,
I wrote essentially my key messages on tissues that I
(13:49):
pulled out of a tissue box. And we ended up
winning the work, which is kind of crazy because we
were like we were a tiny we were a company
of me and maybe a couple of contractors, and this
was to hundreds of people all around the world with
Kimberly Clark, so you know that really was actually quite
instrumental in Inventium's early years. But yeah, I still I
still remember like writing with the text out on these
(14:11):
tissues and going, this is so hard. I hope that this.
Speaker 2 (14:15):
Off anyway, especially for an organization like yours, which is
all around creativity obviously and thinking a little bit differently.
I've actually only had one experience in the last well
forever actually where I got a candidate a video and
I did take the time to watch the video, but
(14:35):
I'd have to say it was a little dry, a
little long, but it was enough to have a conversation,
so it opened the door. But I do think how
you do that is so important as well, isn't it.
And the more you can tie it into the problem
or the target, I think, the more powerful that would be.
Speaker 1 (14:54):
Coming up next, we talk about what AI tells actually
look like in a resume and cover letter and why
they're immediately obvious to anyone hiring. We also talk about
how to use AI to run your own mock interview
and why most people stop short of the step that
actually sharpens performance. If you're looking for more tips to
(15:19):
improve the way you work, can live. I write a
short weekly newsletter that contains tactics I've discovered that have
helped me personally. You can sign up for that at
Amantha dot com. That's Amantha dot com. I think another
thing to be thinking about, like in that application stage,
(15:40):
is that I know, for me, when I'm reading through
cover letters, because I work with AI every day, it's
really obvious when someone has just put it through AI.
There's little human thought, and I'm generally very dismissive of
those kinds of cover letters. So I think just a
few things because I mean when I'm recruiting there now,
(16:00):
I'm looking for AI fluency. Also, having said that, because
we're an AI training company, it's pretty easy for me to,
you know, over the course of a few weeks get
someone to be incredibly fluent with AI. But I just
think for the leaders that I know that a recruiting
if you're not AI fluent, then I mean, why would
you be considered for a job in this day and age,
assuming that you're applying for a job with a fairly
(16:22):
progressive organization. So I think, where are the opportunities to
demonstrate your AI fluency as part of the process. And
what I mean here is thinking about wealth. Firstly, with
a cover letter, I think it is like if you
are not putting your cover letter that has been presumably
co created with AI through an anti AI writing agent,
(16:47):
where basically I think that everyone should have an agent
that basically scans for the AI tells to humanize their writing.
Obviously you should do this as a human and for me,
I would never put content out into the world that
I haven't given a human edit too. I just think
that that's you know, careless and disrespectful, but at very
least because particularly for those that are not good at
(17:08):
seeing the AI tells. If they're not good at working
with AI every day, they won't see them, but a
recruiter will because they are seeing these AI slot cover
letters every day. So I'd definitely be doing that. But
I'd also be thinking, you know, assuming that you are
AI fluent, and if you're not, I highly recommend you know,
investing in some kind of training, whether it's with inventing
your AI or elsewhere, to get yourself up to a
(17:30):
level of fluency. Is you know, thinking, you know, could
you vibe code your application, like could you get on
reput or Lovable or you know, any of the vibe
coding apps. I think, you know, I've heard about people
you know, doing a lot of vibe coding through Claude
and you know, just some of the normal mainstream AI
platforms to demonstrate something that is important in the job.
Because again, I think that that is another way to
(17:51):
stand out and produce a more creative application where you're
showing that you have a really good command of AI.
So I think that really matters. And just picking up
on what you're saying around like you received a video
application and just kind of fell flat. That is where
like if you are not someone that is used to
being in front of a camera or comfortable communicating in
(18:14):
a way that you know that's going to be compelling
and engaging, I would not send through your first take.
I'd be doing a take and I would be giving
it to friends to critique watch it yourself, which I
know for most people watching yourself on video, Yeah, it's
it's like you know, if fingernails down a blackboard, and
even just listening to a recording of ourselves speaking for
(18:37):
most people is absolutely painful. I've got through that threshold
thanks to lots of air checks for this podcast and
having to listen back to myself. But just get used
to it, because it is the best way to improve,
I think, for any kind of task involving video communication
or even just you know, oral communication, videotape yourself doing
(19:00):
it and critique yourself. It's painful, but it's so effective.
Like I remember, gosh, this would have been what ad
I nearly twenty five years ago. It was before Inventium,
and I was working in an AD agency and we
had a presentation skills trainer come in and spend spend
the day with us. And one of the things that
they got us to do was do a short five
(19:21):
to ten minute presentation on something I think it was
just like something more passionate about, and he videotaped all
of us, and then our homework that night was to
watch the video, critique ourselves, and then come back the
next day and do the presentation again. And I'd never
done that before, like I was my early on mid
twenties or something like that, and it was super painful.
(19:44):
But I remember that course so well, and I just thought, wow,
that sort of that moment, that activity was one of
the most powerful things I've ever done in terms of
feedback and improving how I presented it and how I spoke.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
I'm curiously because at the moment, the resume is an
artifact that you cannot ignore.
Speaker 1 (20:06):
Right.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
There are many ways that you can put yourself in
the job hunting, and the resume is far from the
only tool, but it is an essential tool. So, from
someone who's working with AI, to your point about showing
AI fluency in the job application process, how do you
suggest you might do that in a resume? What would
be convincing to you as an employer when you get
(20:28):
that resume that says this person understands AI, because I
think that's a really very relevant and real question for
a lot of job hunters today.
Speaker 1 (20:36):
I think the biggest thing for me is that it
doesn't have AI tells in it, which I don't know
if that sounds really basic, But if I can see
AI tells in a resume, then I'm questioning what was
the human involvement? How much of this is a lie?
How much of this was a really average prompting job,
because they might have actually done the first draft as
(20:57):
a human and told AI to clean it up. AI
has inserted a bunch of AI tells. And by the way,
by AI tells, I'm talking about you know, the specific
font that AI will use when you copy and paste
output into a word document, or you know, an overuse
of M dashes and over use of like capitalizing all
the heading certain words that AI loves, the uncomfortable truth. Yeah,
(21:21):
all that sort of stuff like that. You know that
you see on LinkedIn posts where clearly AI has had
more of an input than the human. So that is
what I would be looking for. AI used badly, right.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
So always have that human oversight. Potentially you've ben put
your resume in front of someone else just to read it.
And arguably someone who understands AI and al tells.
Speaker 1 (21:42):
It has to be someone who understands AI because a
lot of people still don't know the AI tells. And
I've read some research the other day that those that
use AI more more skilled seeing the AI tells, which
of course makes complete logical sense. So making sure you're
putting your resume in front of someone who knows the
AI tells. And of course the AI is very good
(22:04):
at identifying the AI tells, So why wouldn't you just
ask the AI to identify where all the AI tels
and then using your human brain to go, great, I'm
going to change them and humanify that if you like. Now,
I think the other area where AI can play a
really important role, and I know that the challenge for
a lot of people is actually getting to interview stage,
(22:25):
but I think this is where AI can really really
help because previously, you know, people might you know, if
they were quite conscientious, they would do a role play
with a friend or the partner or something like that.
AI is really brilliant for doing role plays with and
using advanced voice mode, like where you're having an actual
conversation with the AI is obviously the best way to
(22:47):
do it. But thinking about you know, firstly, how you're
prompting the AI, Like if it were me you applying
for a job, I would be setting up a project.
For every role or organization that I'm a play for,
I would be feeding it, certainly the most recent annual report,
possibly the last two annual reports. I would be getting
(23:08):
it to scan through the company's website, understand what's their mission,
vision values, looking at the last six months of headlines
in the news, feeding that in about the organization, of course,
feeding in the job description and the job ad and
anything else that I could get my hands on. And
(23:29):
then I would be prompting it to act as a recruiter,
ask me fifteen to twenty questions that it would predict
that I would get asked, and maybe throwing in another
ten that were really hard questions to answer, and then
doing that role play with the AI, and then getting
it to critique my responses. And I think that critique
(23:50):
is really important, Like, I'm sure there are a lot
of people listening that are role playing with the AI
before a job interview, but they're possibly stopping short at
that critique and then listening to that critique, going again
through those questions and getting another round of critique. And
I think that's where you'll really sharpen your performance. If
you can be doing that practice like that, you know,
(24:13):
I would even be thinking about things like how can
I tell stories in a more engaging way, because ultimately
a job interview, if you're doing like a standard behavioral
interview where it's like, tell me about a time, When
thinking about how do you tell a story, like you
can share the same ingredients if you like, for how
you behaved in a certain situation, but if you tell
(24:34):
it in a really masterful storytelling version versus here are
just the facts. Because everyone is human and we all
have biases, a lot of unconscious biases. The more compelling
story is going to win. It's to get a higher grade.
I think what the fun thing that I would add
because I think if you are purely relying on your
(24:57):
resume and cover letter being the best resume and cover
letter of four hundred applications that an organization is receiving,
I think that is a losing game. I think, like
I don't know, and you know, with all my knowledge
of how to use AI really well, I don't like
my chances of getting to the short list because of
how myopically some of that software is trained in terms
(25:18):
of you know, this person must have this specific skill
set and this much experience in this specific industry and
so on. So I would absolutely be spending my time
trying to find out who are the humans that are
influencing the decision and trying to connect with them directly
in some way other than just your bog standard LinkedIn
(25:41):
letter like I would be sending them. You know, you
can send voice messages on LinkedIn, and I know for me,
I am inundated with sales messages on LinkedIn, Like my
LinkedIn inbox is an absolute disaster, and it's a really
depressing place because everyone's just trying to sell me stuff
with really generic emails. And I can imagine that, you know,
if I'm in charge of talent acquisition or if I'm
(26:02):
a recruiter at a really desirable organization, my inbox is
going to be flattered. And so then you know, again
I'm thinking, how can I stand out, How can I
connect with that human. Maybe that's through an audio message.
Maybe I have created a TeleVideo of me saying hi
to them and talking about why I would love to
connect with them or whoever is hiring for this role.
(26:23):
Just something to give myself the edge is absolutely what
I would be were doing in that that tricky middle stage. Yeah, so, Nicle,
we've talked about a few things. I would love to
know what is resonating with you most and what will
you do differently in the next seven days. Yeah, a
good question.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
And I like that you've time boxed it so I
am accountable for making it happen, which is excellent. I
think I'm going to try the video approach. I might
choose a new search firm or a recruiter that I
have in contacted before, or maybe get back in contact
with someone I haven't spoken in a while. I'll think
about who would be a good time target, and I
(27:01):
might try a very short video and I'll have to
reflect a little bit further, and I will use Claude
to help me think through that in terms of what's
the message I want to say and what's the outcome
and what will click with that person. So, for example,
I'm just thinking to someone right now, there's a recruiter
who specializes in health. That's a sector that I would
like to move into. It's hugely disrupted. I'm someone who
(27:24):
thrives in change and transformation. But when I spoke to
her last time, which was a while ago, she said,
have you worked in health before? And I had to
say no, But I did go into adjacencies and similar
experience that could be transferable. But the question wasn't that,
It was have you worked in health before? So that's
maybe one of the challenges I'm going to try and
(27:45):
work around in this video. To your point about being
a salesperson, how can I pitch my skills and experience
or potentially even my way of leading my attributes in
terms of that future forward approach as opposed to past
experience approach. How am I going to pitch that to
her in a short, succinct and differentiated way. I think
(28:07):
that's a really good challenge like that.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Well, Nicole, I will be checking in with you in
seven days to say how you went. So thank you
so much coming on how I work and sharing what's
going on right now.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
Pleasure.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
I hope that this episode was helpful if you're currently
in the job market and this is a new format
for how I work, so please send me your feedback.
I would love to know if you found it helpful
and if you would like to submit your challenge to
be part of the work edit, My email is in
the show notes. Finally, if you want to go deeper
(28:45):
on using AI throughout the whole job search process, from
finding hidden roles to interview prep, check out the how
I Ai episode called how to Use AI to Find
a New Job, which I will link to in the
show notes. If you like today's show, make sure you
get follow on your podcast app to be alerted when
(29:05):
new episodes drop. How I Work was recorded on the
traditional land of the Warringery people, part of the Kulan nation.
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