July 3, 2023 • 25 mins
Every property has a market value but one of the grey areas of real estate is underquoting. So, what is it and what do you need to know as a hopeful home buyer? In this episode, Lana Samuels, Sales Director at White Fox Real Estate, joins Jessica Ricci to pull back the curtain on this murky and misunderstood topic. Lana also gives her best tips for prospective buyers, whether you're going through an auction or an off-market sale.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
The Property Playbook would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians
of the lands of where this podcast is recorded. There
were wondering people of the cooler nations acknowledging the culture,
the history and the connection to the lands of what
we call home. Let's get into it.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hello and welcome back to The Property Playbook, the podcast
where we take you from A to V of all
things property. My name is Jessica Ricky and maybe one
day i will own my first home, but until then
I'm bringing in all kinds of experts to help me
out along the way to figure out what to do. Today,
I am really really excited because I have property expert
(00:48):
and agent Lana Samuel is joining me. Lana, can you
tell everybody a little bit about yourself and what you do?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Oh, thank you for having me. It's very exciting to
be here. Obviously good friends with V and have been
a massive of the podcast for quite some time, So
honored that I was invited today. Bit of background about me.
I'm sales director at White Fox Real Estate, so I
head up our bayside office. Yep, We've been open for
about a year and a half down in the base side,
but I've been with the business at White Fox since
(01:14):
a very start when the pass has actually opened. So
first client, first agent, one of four, and then really
worked my way up from the bottom through the top,
and now I'm a director of the business and having
a lot of fun along the way.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
And in a man's world too, you love to see it.
I got my very very first, like big girl job,
was working as an EA in real estate, and so
I was working under a female agent who was one
of the top agents in the company, and I just
I love seeing women killing it in real estate. It's
so cool.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
It's the best place to start. So I started off
as an EA to Marty who owns the business, and
really got exposed to all the different ways it deals
come together, all the intricacies, got to network and really
be exposed to so many different areas that I wouldn't
have necessarily been exposed to given that I've been in
London for ten years. So I came back with three
(02:04):
numbers in my phone book and started my career in
real estate six and a half years ago and it's
been an incredible journey. And now I'm lucky enough to
have miss Nellie as my EA. Sitting next to me
in the studio.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Too, and she's gorgeous.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
But it's all.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
About women supporting women, and I think just hearing what
you're saying about working under another strong female, it's very empowering.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
It really is. And obviously where the property playbook not,
she's on the money. But I think it's really cool
to know that those perspectives are changing and shifting and
that we are seeing more and more women come to
the industry because I think that as women, we have
a lot of strength that can really help people in
their home buying process in a way that is just
kind of inherent to who we are and how we
interact with people. But today we're going to be talking
(02:48):
about a little bit of a spicy topic. We're going
to be touching on under quoting, and this is something
that I think as buyers, it's a little bit of
a misty, murky area because there's almost like this gray
space where you don't really know what it is or
what it isn't and if you're someone who is new
to the home buying process, you don't necessarily know what.
(03:10):
So I wanted to ask you, Lana, can you kind
of run me through firstly, what even underquoting is so
it is a gray area.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
It's a little bit of a taboo subject to a
lot of people. But the good thing is it is
getting under control. As an industry. There is serious repercussions
to agencies and agents if they are caught to be
under quoting. I think there's a big misconception with that
space for buyers that are very new into the market
and they feel very disengaged and a little bit lost
(03:38):
on how to gauge where pricing needs to sit. But
it really does need to come from the research of
the buyer. So as an agent, if we strip it
back an agent taking a property to market under auction conditions,
they really do need to be quoting it on what
they feel the property is worth first and foremost, not
what the vendor wants to achieve in their dream number.
(04:00):
It's what is the value of the home today in
this market, and there are steps that need to be
taken that are taken by agents to come up with
that number. It's not a pie in the sky just
kill is that it's worth roughly X. There's a lot
of research that should go in the back of that.
The most apparent one is comparable sales now. Unfortunately, in
this market right now, we've got very little stock to
(04:22):
reflect on. So if we look at today's market and
how agents are pricing, we're sitting at about forty percent
off stock levels of where we were this time last
year really, so it's just under forty percent. So we've
been really mapping out the best that we can as agents,
given that there's not a huge amount of properties to
pull from, but you have to use the most comparable
(04:44):
sales that have transacted in order to base your analysis
when it comes to pricing for an auction quote. Now,
from a buying perspective, it can be very overwhelming, especially
if you're at that start of your journey and it's
your first property that you've bought. How do you know
where something sits? You know, how do you value home?
It's very hard when you get emotional when you're a buyer.
So the best, best, best way to do it is
(05:07):
to do your research as a buyer. The agents will
give an indicative range, but the reality is the vendor
has to give their reserve, but usually it will come
on the day of the auction. Now, the comparable sales
should be the best way to factor in where the
price should be sitting based on land size when it
was sold, bed bath, car, accommodation, floor plan, or all
(05:30):
factors that come into play when you're pricing a home.
But it also comes down to the research that the
buyer does to feel comfortable. So my advice to buyers
that are entering the market or a feeling out an
auction scenario is be out there, go to auctions, feel
it out, have your finger on the pulse, do your
own analysis and your own research so that you really
feel geared when you go onto auction day, to know
(05:52):
where the property sits and what you're prepared to pay.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, one hundred percent. Something that I see people talk
about a lot. I'm on a lot of forums and
Facebook groups someone who's hoping to kind of get their
first home. I've seen people talking about how homes have
been listed with a certain range and then it's going
to auction or maybe it is private saale, but there's
a few competing buyers and the home is selling for
significantly more than what that range was. But it's interesting
(06:17):
having kind of worked on that back end, knowing that
that isn't necessarily under quoting. No, But sometimes people are
really quick to say.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Oh, that's an under quote because it's gone for three
or four hundred thousand dollars over. I'll give you a
great example of that. I sold a property recently in Camberwell. Yeah,
and the quote was two point six to two point seven. Now,
our vendors were in line at that top end of
the range. That was, you know where they really were
cometable to let the property go. We had a private
auction on site and we had three parties going neck
(06:47):
to neck competing. And the reason that they were competing
is it was a turnkey home, which is performing the
best in this marketplace because cost of bill's gone through the.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Roof materials are crazy materials trades.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
It's very difficult to even forward plan a build or
a renovation because you have got so many external factors
that are out of your control and it is so expensive.
So it really does depend on the type of property.
But this particular property was a turn key architectural home
in a great location, and the reality is there was
no competing properties on the market at that time. So
it's all driven by supply and demand in the property market,
(07:20):
Like most things, very low supply. People need to transact
in property for five reasons and five reasons only financial gain,
financial loss, death, relocation, and marriage. They're the five reasons
why people property.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
That's really interesting.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
So right now there is a very limited amount of
stock that people can choose from. This particular home was
quoted perfectly. We had great momentum throughout the campaign, but
on auction night we had three parties just go head
to head to head to head and it's sold for
over three point one million.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
So it went for over three hundred thousand at the
top end of the range, and a buyer could look
at that as under quoting, but absolutely not. It was
asked accordingly. The comparable sales supported that the vendors' expectations
were there, but because it was such a niche product
in this market, it performed to the highest limits. Yeah,
so that is down to emotion, and it is also
down to the fact that there is a lot to
(08:14):
choose from right now. So it's very easy to look
at a property that transacts for a much higher result
than the top end of the range and think, well,
is that an underquote. But when you look at it,
there's two or three people going head to head for
a reason, it's because that's what they're willing to pay. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
There's a phrase that I heard a lot when I
worked in real estate, and that was the price is
set by the market. It's not set by anyone else
because ultimately you as an agent or as a valuer.
We had Blindabotsolos, Who's a value are on the show
a couple of weeks ago, and she spoke about what
that process is like and how they try and keep
it consistent no matter who is valuing a property. But
ultimately you, as an agent or another agent or a vendor,
(08:52):
anyone can say this is what I think that it's worth.
But if somebody comes in and says, I'm willing to
pay five hundred thousand dollars more, yeah, that's what the
property is now worth because that is what somebody has paid.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
And it's a hard concept to grasp.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Is very hard.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
But the reality is it's a transparent process, so no
one is forcing somebody to pay that there's no games
behind the scenes. We are actually funny enough as a business.
The market changes every single day in real estate. I
love and expressions of interest and a private sale because
I came in into the market in twenty seventeen and
the clearance rates were very low at the time, and
(09:28):
it didn't support us pushing our clients go to market
because it was a fifty percent chance that actually passed in.
So when you look at what the market's doing this
time last year, the clearance rate was sitting at fifty
eight percent. Right now it's sitting at over eighty percent.
Auctions working, and the reason behind that is they're no
longer is the fear of missing out, it's fear of overpaying.
(09:50):
That's the market that we're in right now. So the
best way to sell a property in this market today
is an auction because buyers want that transparency and if
you're ever going to get top dollar, well it's down
to two people fighting out in an open forum to
see if it's going to happen. But the reality of
it is the market is saying something. There's low stock,
the clearance rates are high, and people are willing to
(10:12):
pay overs because they want that accommodation, or they want
that position, or it's their dream home. They don't want
to do the work, so they want the turn key home.
There's different factors that come into play that drive the
pricing up on an auction forum.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
That is so interesting. I want to run too, a
really quick ad break, but when we come back, I
have a lot more questions, So don't go anywhere, guys.
Welcome back everybody. Today I'm chatting to Lana Samuels from
White Fox real Estate, talking all things property buying. A
little bit underquoting. It's really interesting. I want to ask
you because I think a lot of people have been
holding back on property because there's all of this talk
(10:46):
about recession and you know, global crisis, and there's a
lot going on in I guess the broader global economy
that people have been sitting on waiting to see if
that trickles back down into the property market. But you're
saying here that it's busier than ever. What do you
think the chances are of this dip that everyone seems
to be waiting for happening.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
I think it's coming. I think the reality of it is,
and we see it every single day when we're people's homes.
You know, you see whats and all. You're in someone's
home and you've been there before yourself, being an agent
or being an EA to an agent. When you're invited
to someone's home, you see absolutely everything and why they're
really selling. No one's selling in this market for fun.
I think there's been a lot of uncertainty in the
(11:29):
climate in the last six months. Everybody's been sitting on
their hands, watching and trying to pick the bottom of
the market. But as we've seen another interest rate hike,
people are holding on by a thread across the board.
People are having serious conversations behind closed doors on what
does it look like the next six to twelve months.
Can we actually afford to stay in the home? Have
we overstretched ourselves? You know, people that bought three years
(11:51):
ago at two point one nine percent are now paying
over six percent. It's almost triple and we're not getting
that rise and income at work. You know, there's no
really there. And what we're seeing is when you really
get under the boot of things, there is a lot
of pain and we all know that it's on the news,
everyone's talking about it. The reality hits right now. People
(12:12):
that are selling are the smart ones that are selling.
That's my honest opinion, because I think there's only so
long that people can really hold on before they think about, Okay,
we can't afford this anyone. We need to put our
house in the market. And then I believe that the
market will flood. There's going to be an influx of
vendors that unfortunately have to sell to have some relief,
(12:32):
and I believe that will correct the market. I think
it'll realign because there's more options as a buyer, Whereas
right now, because there's such limited stock levels, people are
paying overs just to get a house or get an apartment.
Whereas when there's more options, buyers do their due diligence.
There's a lot of cross pollination in areas, more to
choose from. There's a little bit more power in the
(12:53):
hands of the buyer, whereas right now it really does
sit with the vendors.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yeah, it's a bit of a seller's market at the moment,
isn't it? Coming back? I guess quickly to underquoting. What
are some signed or indicators that people can look out for.
How can they determine? Like we're talking here about how
you know you can look at something and it's gone
for a lot more, But that doesn't necessarily really mean
that it has been underquoted? Are there things that people
should be looking.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
Out for recent results? Speaking to agents is another one.
Although you might be looking at a property with one agency,
it doesn't hurt to do a bit of due diligence.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah, if you've got.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Friends that are in the industry, asking them for their
perspective on the property. The Internet is flooded with information
and access to pass results. Those comparable sales that are
on the statement of information are your guide. But going
out to open for inspections on the weekend, actually going
through homes physically, sitting in at auctions and watching how
they perform. You know, if there's a crowd of one
(13:46):
hundred people there and there's four people going ballistic, what
does that say. Yeah, So really keeping your finger to
the pulse and doing as much research as you can
and also not getting too emotional. Property is all about emotion,
and you can get you know, really heavily invested into
a home. But I think from a buyer is identifying
(14:07):
where your limit is if you are going to an
auction and you are planning to bid, and having a
little bit of a buffer on that because that emotion
kicks in. But knowing when to call it a day,
because we all know at the moment, you know, even
getting finance the moment is hard. So it's just factoring
the future of what does it look like if I
buy that home, but also making sure that when you
(14:28):
turn up on that auction day you feel really comfortable
and confident that you've done all your due diligence and
you've got that max there where you're prepared to pay.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
On what level can a buyer rely on the agent
of a property to help them to answer questions? Because
I think there's sometimes a little bit of a it
feels like a wall. Like obviously, as an agent, ultimately
your job is to represent the vendor. You're trying to
get the absolute best price that you can for them,
and that's your job. But then on the flip side,
you do want to be helping the buyers as well,
because to repeat seller exactly right, maybe I buy the house,
(14:59):
I come back to you to sell it because I
love you and you're wonderful. How many questions can we
ask you? How much can we ask you for guidance around?
Is it okay to say what have you seen happening lately?
Because I feel like sometimes you can want to do
all that research you can get on the internet. You
can do it all, But I'm not a property expert.
I'm hosting your property podcast, but I'm talking to the
experts for their insight. How okay is it? I guess
(15:22):
for buyers to talk to agents, whether that be at
the open for inspection or whether that be picking up
the phone and giving you a call to ask about
the properties that you've got. Is that even allowed?
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Yes, absolutely, and I encourage buyers to do that, and
especially from where we stand every interaction. It is such
a small world that we live in, and I think
it's incredibly important to treat every single buyer with the
utmost care. Melbourne is so interconnected. You do one wrong
thing or put one foot out of place, and it
(15:53):
always swings in roundabouts. So when we meet buyers it opens,
we always encourage them to ask questions. If you're not
comfortable with the quote range, let me explain to you
why we've come up with this figure. These are the
comparable sales that have transacted in the area recently, which
is how we've based this quote on. Ask as much
as you possibly can. You know, we've got an auction
this week and we've got to buy that. It's a
(16:13):
first time buying at auction. She's nervous, which is so understandable,
and you know she's asked how it's all going to
play out, and you know, how does it work with
the reserve the fundamental basics that sometimes we assume that
buyers don't know. And I really encourage anyone that he's looking.
They need that guidance to ask your agent for assistance. Look,
I am interested, I want to buy the home, but
(16:34):
based on the amount of people that are here today,
do I have a shot on Saturday? And you know,
you've got to try to engage the agent. Everyone works
very differently. I always sayd my buiers just be there.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
You never know.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Might have thirty people here today, but come Saturday it
might be you and one other. You know, it's in
the hands of the gods on the day. It's where
the dependent. It's media dependent. You know, has there been
an interest rate rise? Has there been a spread in
the paper that morning? You just never know. So I
think definitely ask your agent as many questions as you
can to make you feel comfortable. If you're getting resistance there,
(17:06):
then you're going to have to shop around and do
some further digging there. But there's nothing wrong with asking questions.
They are the expert at the end of the day,
and they should be there to help you along the
journey too.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
I love that. That's really nice and it is true,
isn't it. You've got to rely on the experts sometimes,
I think, to help, I.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Don't go to the doctors and try and play guessing correct.
It's very hard and unfortunately the industry does have a
bad name. Yes it does. Hopefully that's changing. Not everybody
thinks that, but I think buyers can get very nervous
and yeah, because you are paid by the vendor, but
the reality is without the buyer, there's no transaction and
there's no result at the end of the day. So
(17:44):
try and make it one feel as included as they can.
That's what we try and do, and assist everyone along
the journey and try and be as transparent as you can.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yeah, that's amazing. Are there any resources that you would
recommend websites or platforms or apps that buyers having their
toolkit to help them doing all that research?
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Yeah, definitely. So the easiest platforms are real estate, dot com,
dot A U, and Domain. I always advise anyone that
I know that's looking is jump on the search criteria
on ARIA and Domain and just put in your brief
and you can star that so you can get notifications
on properties that have transacted, properties that have just launched
on the market as well, so you can get a
feel as to pricing. You know, being in touch with
(18:21):
buyers advocates too is really important. If you have got
the capacity to engage an advocate, that's great. There an
expert that is there to help you buy. And we
are seeing a lot more people starting to work with
advocates because of the type of climate that we're in
right now and having access to off market opportunities and
so forth. But really it is being across both of
(18:42):
those platforms Aria and Domain because they are the biggest
databases in Australia and they have got everything that's sitting
in the market, so I would be tracking new properties
that are in the market. There is also access to
pass sales tu Lana.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
I want to ask you about off market sales because
you said before that you really love those. It's a
really cool way for people to get access and get
in early and you know, maybe avoid some of the
heat that you can feel at auction.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
The competition.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
The competition exactly right, But how do we even find
those because they're not listed on real estate, So how
do we figure out where they are. How do we
do I guess that same due diligence because we're not
running a campaign in the same way that you would
for an.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
Auction and you're not seeing that advertising everything.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Okay, right, so how do we even where do we
start with those?
Speaker 3 (19:25):
So first place to start is to call Lana Samuels
at White Fox and ask her what off markets she has.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
She's a queen, she's going to help you out.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
In all honesty, the best way is the agents have
the off market. So the way that we run an
off market in our business is every property that is
going to market automatically has an off market period. So
what that means is you've got a two week period
give or take where you bring buyers through before it
actually hits the market. It's a great way for an
(19:53):
agent to also get feedback on price. So going back
to that auction, we do that automatically so that when
we're pricing, we know we're on the money. No pun intend.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Really smart, correct, very smooth too, so we can.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Get feedback from buyers. You know, we're feeling it's going
to be sitting around X. What's your thoughts, Oh, I
think that's a bit high or no, I think that's
you know, a lay down bazette. So an off market
period essentially is the agent taking a property out to
their database or people that they know and getting them
through homes for early access before it hitting the market.
There is a lot of off market deals happening in
(20:23):
the background at the moment because there is a very
low stock level online and available. So a lot of
vendors the last few months have been testing the waters
before jumping into a full campaign and the emotional side
of open for inspections and auctions and private sales, whatever
it may be. So the best way to get access
is if you do got to open for inspections, to
(20:45):
let the agent know that you are interested to hear
any off markets. I get weekly calls from buyers that
we've met. You know that we're speaking to look LINEA,
that one wasn't quite right because of X, Y and Z. However,
if you've got a property on this land side, this accommodation,
close to this, this, and this, would you please let
me know. So I build my own little database within
my team of hot buyers that are ready to buy
(21:07):
and with their certain briefs, so we call through them
and let them know in advance, but I would be
recommending as a buyer, if you are interested, you want
your finger on the pulse to reach out to a
handful of your local agents or agents within the area
that you're looking to buy and giving them your brief
so that you are front of mind.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Yeah, okay, so connecting and letting them know exactly what
you're looking for, correct, because then if something pops up
that seems like it fits, they can get in touch
and let you know correct.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
I had one on the weekend. We've got an off
marker that is coming to market. A friend of mine
reached out to me on Saturday night and said, I'm
with someone. This is the brief and I just listed
it last week and I was like, beautiful toy. Yesterday
they've done a drive by. It fits the brief to perfection,
and I know that they're ready to buy. Yeah, and they're.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Hot to go.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
So they're coming in tomorrow with us and hopefully it'll
be sold this week.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Oh excited.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
And the vendor doesn't have to pay for marketing and
they don't have to go through all the layers that
comes with taking property to campaign, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Which makes their life that a little bit easier, which
is a little bit we all love, don't we Absolutely incredible.
I guess the last question that I have for you
is for anyone who is kind of starting that journey.
They're looking there, putting their finger on the polls, and
they're doing it for the first time. What recommendations do
you have them? What I guess piece of wisdom. Having
worked in this industry and done incredibly well in it
(22:22):
for so many years, what would you suggest to them
in terms of just being as prepared as they can.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
There's a few steps, I think, having all your background
due diligence in order, so making sure that if you
are seriously looking, getting your finance in order, having a
solicitor ready to go to review contracts. Make sure that
if you find a home that you are doing all
your due diligence too, so reviewing the contract during your
pest and building inspection. Making sure that you're out there
(22:49):
actively on weekends. Although it can be tea, especially when
there's limited options, but go out and explore and find
out what you really want. Don't do what I've always done,
whereas I'll buy house a site unsen I've done crazy
things over the years, but you have to trust your
gut feeling. Nothing's ever going to be perfect. You're never
going to get a property that's ten out of ten.
(23:10):
But have your non negotiables that are in your back
pocket when you're actually seriously considering a home, and make
sure you do your research and that you feel really
comfortable when you buy. I think for anyone buying for
the first time in this market, I would just be
really mindful of any interest rates that are coming up
and not being overstretched to the point where you actually
(23:30):
don't enjoy where you live anymore. So I think we've
all got that under control to some degree, given that
it's our twelve interest rate hik, so we've all been
bashed over the head many times. But really make sure
that you're organized and that you're ready to buy if
the right one comes up, because there's nothing worse than
when we find a buyer for a property and there's
multiple pople people interested and it's perfect, but they're just
(23:53):
not ready to go, and then they end up missing
out on the opportunity. So make sure that you've got
all your ducks in a row, that you've done your research,
you know what you want, and you get her second
opinion so it's hard when you can be an impulse
buyer or just generally like me in the fashion I
impulse by everything.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Get a little bit guilty that in this life you're just.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Getting a few people that know what they're doing to
be there with you along the way. I get so
many of my friends in the past have asked me
to come and look at homes for them. So if
you know anyone within the industry, if you've got you know,
somebody that's bought multiple homes, mom and dad, whatever it
may be, just get someone along the journey with you
so that you feel really comfortable.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Yeah, And as someone who used to work in the
real estate industry, I think even if you're not sure,
if you're reaching out to someone to see if they're
the right fit. More often than not, if I reached
out to Lana and she was like, I haven't got
anything for you, you might know someone who does. I
feel like everyone's really interconnected, and so especially in Melbourne
one hundred percent, it's as you said, it's a very
very small space, even though it seems big, and so
(24:50):
there's no harm in reaching out. The worst case that
someone says is I'm really sorry. I can't help you,
but they might be able to point you along the
way and help you get there. So thank you so much.
I feel like that's giving a really interesting little market
update for everybody. And if, guys, if you do want
to chat to Lana, will have all of her information
in the show notes. Definitely check her out. She's an
absolute angel. We love her so much and we're so
(25:12):
grateful for your time today.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Thank you for having me amazing.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Just before we head off, let's quickly wrap the boring
but important stuff. The advice shared on the Property Playbook
is generally in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances.
The Property Playbook exists purely for educational purposes and should
not be relied upon to make an investment or a
financial decision. We'll see in the next episode. Guys. Bye,
The Property Playbook would like to acknowledge the traditional custodians
of the lands of where this podcast is recorded. There
were wondering people of the cooler nations acknowledging the culture,
the history and the connection to the lands of what
we call home. Let's get into it.
Speaker 2 (00:27):
Hello and welcome back to The Property Playbook, the podcast
where we take you from A to V of all
things property. My name is Jessica Ricky and maybe one
day i will own my first home, but until then
I'm bringing in all kinds of experts to help me
out along the way to figure out what to do. Today,
I am really really excited because I have property expert
(00:48):
and agent Lana Samuel is joining me. Lana, can you
tell everybody a little bit about yourself and what you do?
Speaker 3 (00:53):
Oh, thank you for having me. It's very exciting to
be here. Obviously good friends with V and have been
a massive of the podcast for quite some time, So
honored that I was invited today. Bit of background about me.
I'm sales director at White Fox Real Estate, so I
head up our bayside office. Yep, We've been open for
about a year and a half down in the base side,
but I've been with the business at White Fox since
(01:14):
a very start when the pass has actually opened. So
first client, first agent, one of four, and then really
worked my way up from the bottom through the top,
and now I'm a director of the business and having
a lot of fun along the way.
Speaker 2 (01:28):
And in a man's world too, you love to see it.
I got my very very first, like big girl job,
was working as an EA in real estate, and so
I was working under a female agent who was one
of the top agents in the company, and I just
I love seeing women killing it in real estate. It's
so cool.
Speaker 3 (01:44):
It's the best place to start. So I started off
as an EA to Marty who owns the business, and
really got exposed to all the different ways it deals
come together, all the intricacies, got to network and really
be exposed to so many different areas that I wouldn't
have necessarily been exposed to given that I've been in
London for ten years. So I came back with three
(02:04):
numbers in my phone book and started my career in
real estate six and a half years ago and it's
been an incredible journey. And now I'm lucky enough to
have miss Nellie as my EA. Sitting next to me
in the studio.
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Too, and she's gorgeous.
Speaker 1 (02:18):
But it's all.
Speaker 3 (02:18):
About women supporting women, and I think just hearing what
you're saying about working under another strong female, it's very empowering.
Speaker 2 (02:25):
It really is. And obviously where the property playbook not,
she's on the money. But I think it's really cool
to know that those perspectives are changing and shifting and
that we are seeing more and more women come to
the industry because I think that as women, we have
a lot of strength that can really help people in
their home buying process in a way that is just
kind of inherent to who we are and how we
interact with people. But today we're going to be talking
(02:48):
about a little bit of a spicy topic. We're going
to be touching on under quoting, and this is something
that I think as buyers, it's a little bit of
a misty, murky area because there's almost like this gray
space where you don't really know what it is or
what it isn't and if you're someone who is new
to the home buying process, you don't necessarily know what.
(03:10):
So I wanted to ask you, Lana, can you kind
of run me through firstly, what even underquoting is so
it is a gray area.
Speaker 3 (03:17):
It's a little bit of a taboo subject to a
lot of people. But the good thing is it is
getting under control. As an industry. There is serious repercussions
to agencies and agents if they are caught to be
under quoting. I think there's a big misconception with that
space for buyers that are very new into the market
and they feel very disengaged and a little bit lost
(03:38):
on how to gauge where pricing needs to sit. But
it really does need to come from the research of
the buyer. So as an agent, if we strip it
back an agent taking a property to market under auction conditions,
they really do need to be quoting it on what
they feel the property is worth first and foremost, not
what the vendor wants to achieve in their dream number.
(04:00):
It's what is the value of the home today in
this market, and there are steps that need to be
taken that are taken by agents to come up with
that number. It's not a pie in the sky just
kill is that it's worth roughly X. There's a lot
of research that should go in the back of that.
The most apparent one is comparable sales now. Unfortunately, in
this market right now, we've got very little stock to
(04:22):
reflect on. So if we look at today's market and
how agents are pricing, we're sitting at about forty percent
off stock levels of where we were this time last
year really, so it's just under forty percent. So we've
been really mapping out the best that we can as agents,
given that there's not a huge amount of properties to
pull from, but you have to use the most comparable
(04:44):
sales that have transacted in order to base your analysis
when it comes to pricing for an auction quote. Now,
from a buying perspective, it can be very overwhelming, especially
if you're at that start of your journey and it's
your first property that you've bought. How do you know
where something sits? You know, how do you value home?
It's very hard when you get emotional when you're a buyer.
So the best, best, best way to do it is
(05:07):
to do your research as a buyer. The agents will
give an indicative range, but the reality is the vendor
has to give their reserve, but usually it will come
on the day of the auction. Now, the comparable sales
should be the best way to factor in where the
price should be sitting based on land size when it
was sold, bed bath, car, accommodation, floor plan, or all
(05:30):
factors that come into play when you're pricing a home.
But it also comes down to the research that the
buyer does to feel comfortable. So my advice to buyers
that are entering the market or a feeling out an
auction scenario is be out there, go to auctions, feel
it out, have your finger on the pulse, do your
own analysis and your own research so that you really
feel geared when you go onto auction day, to know
(05:52):
where the property sits and what you're prepared to pay.
Speaker 2 (05:54):
Yeah, one hundred percent. Something that I see people talk
about a lot. I'm on a lot of forums and
Facebook groups someone who's hoping to kind of get their
first home. I've seen people talking about how homes have
been listed with a certain range and then it's going
to auction or maybe it is private saale, but there's
a few competing buyers and the home is selling for
significantly more than what that range was. But it's interesting
(06:17):
having kind of worked on that back end, knowing that
that isn't necessarily under quoting. No, But sometimes people are
really quick to say.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
Oh, that's an under quote because it's gone for three
or four hundred thousand dollars over. I'll give you a
great example of that. I sold a property recently in Camberwell. Yeah,
and the quote was two point six to two point seven. Now,
our vendors were in line at that top end of
the range. That was, you know where they really were
cometable to let the property go. We had a private
auction on site and we had three parties going neck
(06:47):
to neck competing. And the reason that they were competing
is it was a turnkey home, which is performing the
best in this marketplace because cost of bill's gone through the.
Speaker 2 (06:56):
Roof materials are crazy materials trades.
Speaker 3 (06:59):
It's very difficult to even forward plan a build or
a renovation because you have got so many external factors
that are out of your control and it is so expensive.
So it really does depend on the type of property.
But this particular property was a turn key architectural home
in a great location, and the reality is there was
no competing properties on the market at that time. So
it's all driven by supply and demand in the property market,
(07:20):
Like most things, very low supply. People need to transact
in property for five reasons and five reasons only financial gain,
financial loss, death, relocation, and marriage. They're the five reasons
why people property.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
That's really interesting.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
So right now there is a very limited amount of
stock that people can choose from. This particular home was
quoted perfectly. We had great momentum throughout the campaign, but
on auction night we had three parties just go head
to head to head to head and it's sold for
over three point one million.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (07:52):
So it went for over three hundred thousand at the
top end of the range, and a buyer could look
at that as under quoting, but absolutely not. It was
asked accordingly. The comparable sales supported that the vendors' expectations
were there, but because it was such a niche product
in this market, it performed to the highest limits. Yeah,
so that is down to emotion, and it is also
down to the fact that there is a lot to
(08:14):
choose from right now. So it's very easy to look
at a property that transacts for a much higher result
than the top end of the range and think, well,
is that an underquote. But when you look at it,
there's two or three people going head to head for
a reason, it's because that's what they're willing to pay. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
There's a phrase that I heard a lot when I
worked in real estate, and that was the price is
set by the market. It's not set by anyone else
because ultimately you as an agent or as a valuer.
We had Blindabotsolos, Who's a value are on the show
a couple of weeks ago, and she spoke about what
that process is like and how they try and keep
it consistent no matter who is valuing a property. But
ultimately you, as an agent or another agent or a vendor,
(08:52):
anyone can say this is what I think that it's worth.
But if somebody comes in and says, I'm willing to
pay five hundred thousand dollars more, yeah, that's what the
property is now worth because that is what somebody has paid.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (09:04):
And it's a hard concept to grasp.
Speaker 1 (09:06):
Is very hard.
Speaker 3 (09:06):
But the reality is it's a transparent process, so no
one is forcing somebody to pay that there's no games
behind the scenes. We are actually funny enough as a business.
The market changes every single day in real estate. I
love and expressions of interest and a private sale because
I came in into the market in twenty seventeen and
the clearance rates were very low at the time, and
(09:28):
it didn't support us pushing our clients go to market
because it was a fifty percent chance that actually passed in.
So when you look at what the market's doing this
time last year, the clearance rate was sitting at fifty
eight percent. Right now it's sitting at over eighty percent.
Auctions working, and the reason behind that is they're no
longer is the fear of missing out, it's fear of overpaying.
(09:50):
That's the market that we're in right now. So the
best way to sell a property in this market today
is an auction because buyers want that transparency and if
you're ever going to get top dollar, well it's down
to two people fighting out in an open forum to
see if it's going to happen. But the reality of
it is the market is saying something. There's low stock,
the clearance rates are high, and people are willing to
(10:12):
pay overs because they want that accommodation, or they want
that position, or it's their dream home. They don't want
to do the work, so they want the turn key home.
There's different factors that come into play that drive the
pricing up on an auction forum.
Speaker 2 (10:24):
That is so interesting. I want to run too, a
really quick ad break, but when we come back, I
have a lot more questions, So don't go anywhere, guys.
Welcome back everybody. Today I'm chatting to Lana Samuels from
White Fox real Estate, talking all things property buying. A
little bit underquoting. It's really interesting. I want to ask
you because I think a lot of people have been
holding back on property because there's all of this talk
(10:46):
about recession and you know, global crisis, and there's a
lot going on in I guess the broader global economy
that people have been sitting on waiting to see if
that trickles back down into the property market. But you're
saying here that it's busier than ever. What do you
think the chances are of this dip that everyone seems
to be waiting for happening.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
I think it's coming. I think the reality of it is,
and we see it every single day when we're people's homes.
You know, you see whats and all. You're in someone's
home and you've been there before yourself, being an agent
or being an EA to an agent. When you're invited
to someone's home, you see absolutely everything and why they're
really selling. No one's selling in this market for fun.
I think there's been a lot of uncertainty in the
(11:29):
climate in the last six months. Everybody's been sitting on
their hands, watching and trying to pick the bottom of
the market. But as we've seen another interest rate hike,
people are holding on by a thread across the board.
People are having serious conversations behind closed doors on what
does it look like the next six to twelve months.
Can we actually afford to stay in the home? Have
we overstretched ourselves? You know, people that bought three years
(11:51):
ago at two point one nine percent are now paying
over six percent. It's almost triple and we're not getting
that rise and income at work. You know, there's no
really there. And what we're seeing is when you really
get under the boot of things, there is a lot
of pain and we all know that it's on the news,
everyone's talking about it. The reality hits right now. People
(12:12):
that are selling are the smart ones that are selling.
That's my honest opinion, because I think there's only so
long that people can really hold on before they think about, Okay,
we can't afford this anyone. We need to put our
house in the market. And then I believe that the
market will flood. There's going to be an influx of
vendors that unfortunately have to sell to have some relief,
(12:32):
and I believe that will correct the market. I think
it'll realign because there's more options as a buyer, Whereas
right now, because there's such limited stock levels, people are
paying overs just to get a house or get an apartment.
Whereas when there's more options, buyers do their due diligence.
There's a lot of cross pollination in areas, more to
choose from. There's a little bit more power in the
(12:53):
hands of the buyer, whereas right now it really does
sit with the vendors.
Speaker 2 (12:56):
Yeah, it's a bit of a seller's market at the moment,
isn't it? Coming back? I guess quickly to underquoting. What
are some signed or indicators that people can look out for.
How can they determine? Like we're talking here about how
you know you can look at something and it's gone
for a lot more, But that doesn't necessarily really mean
that it has been underquoted? Are there things that people
should be looking.
Speaker 3 (13:15):
Out for recent results? Speaking to agents is another one.
Although you might be looking at a property with one agency,
it doesn't hurt to do a bit of due diligence.
Speaker 2 (13:25):
Yeah, if you've got.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Friends that are in the industry, asking them for their
perspective on the property. The Internet is flooded with information
and access to pass results. Those comparable sales that are
on the statement of information are your guide. But going
out to open for inspections on the weekend, actually going
through homes physically, sitting in at auctions and watching how
they perform. You know, if there's a crowd of one
(13:46):
hundred people there and there's four people going ballistic, what
does that say. Yeah, So really keeping your finger to
the pulse and doing as much research as you can
and also not getting too emotional. Property is all about emotion,
and you can get you know, really heavily invested into
a home. But I think from a buyer is identifying
(14:07):
where your limit is if you are going to an
auction and you are planning to bid, and having a
little bit of a buffer on that because that emotion
kicks in. But knowing when to call it a day,
because we all know at the moment, you know, even
getting finance the moment is hard. So it's just factoring
the future of what does it look like if I
buy that home, but also making sure that when you
(14:28):
turn up on that auction day you feel really comfortable
and confident that you've done all your due diligence and
you've got that max there where you're prepared to pay.
Speaker 1 (14:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
On what level can a buyer rely on the agent
of a property to help them to answer questions? Because
I think there's sometimes a little bit of a it
feels like a wall. Like obviously, as an agent, ultimately
your job is to represent the vendor. You're trying to
get the absolute best price that you can for them,
and that's your job. But then on the flip side,
you do want to be helping the buyers as well,
because to repeat seller exactly right, maybe I buy the house,
(14:59):
I come back to you to sell it because I
love you and you're wonderful. How many questions can we
ask you? How much can we ask you for guidance around?
Is it okay to say what have you seen happening lately?
Because I feel like sometimes you can want to do
all that research you can get on the internet. You
can do it all, But I'm not a property expert.
I'm hosting your property podcast, but I'm talking to the
experts for their insight. How okay is it? I guess
(15:22):
for buyers to talk to agents, whether that be at
the open for inspection or whether that be picking up
the phone and giving you a call to ask about
the properties that you've got. Is that even allowed?
Speaker 3 (15:31):
Yes, absolutely, and I encourage buyers to do that, and
especially from where we stand every interaction. It is such
a small world that we live in, and I think
it's incredibly important to treat every single buyer with the
utmost care. Melbourne is so interconnected. You do one wrong
thing or put one foot out of place, and it
(15:53):
always swings in roundabouts. So when we meet buyers it opens,
we always encourage them to ask questions. If you're not
comfortable with the quote range, let me explain to you
why we've come up with this figure. These are the
comparable sales that have transacted in the area recently, which
is how we've based this quote on. Ask as much
as you possibly can. You know, we've got an auction
this week and we've got to buy that. It's a
(16:13):
first time buying at auction. She's nervous, which is so understandable,
and you know she's asked how it's all going to
play out, and you know, how does it work with
the reserve the fundamental basics that sometimes we assume that
buyers don't know. And I really encourage anyone that he's looking.
They need that guidance to ask your agent for assistance. Look,
I am interested, I want to buy the home, but
(16:34):
based on the amount of people that are here today,
do I have a shot on Saturday? And you know,
you've got to try to engage the agent. Everyone works
very differently. I always sayd my buiers just be there.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
You never know.
Speaker 3 (16:45):
Might have thirty people here today, but come Saturday it
might be you and one other. You know, it's in
the hands of the gods on the day. It's where
the dependent. It's media dependent. You know, has there been
an interest rate rise? Has there been a spread in
the paper that morning? You just never know. So I
think definitely ask your agent as many questions as you
can to make you feel comfortable. If you're getting resistance there,
(17:06):
then you're going to have to shop around and do
some further digging there. But there's nothing wrong with asking questions.
They are the expert at the end of the day,
and they should be there to help you along the
journey too.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
I love that. That's really nice and it is true,
isn't it. You've got to rely on the experts sometimes,
I think, to help, I.
Speaker 3 (17:22):
Don't go to the doctors and try and play guessing correct.
It's very hard and unfortunately the industry does have a
bad name. Yes it does. Hopefully that's changing. Not everybody
thinks that, but I think buyers can get very nervous
and yeah, because you are paid by the vendor, but
the reality is without the buyer, there's no transaction and
there's no result at the end of the day. So
(17:44):
try and make it one feel as included as they can.
That's what we try and do, and assist everyone along
the journey and try and be as transparent as you can.
Speaker 2 (17:51):
Yeah, that's amazing. Are there any resources that you would
recommend websites or platforms or apps that buyers having their
toolkit to help them doing all that research?
Speaker 3 (18:00):
Yeah, definitely. So the easiest platforms are real estate, dot com,
dot A U, and Domain. I always advise anyone that
I know that's looking is jump on the search criteria
on ARIA and Domain and just put in your brief
and you can star that so you can get notifications
on properties that have transacted, properties that have just launched
on the market as well, so you can get a
feel as to pricing. You know, being in touch with
(18:21):
buyers advocates too is really important. If you have got
the capacity to engage an advocate, that's great. There an
expert that is there to help you buy. And we
are seeing a lot more people starting to work with
advocates because of the type of climate that we're in
right now and having access to off market opportunities and
so forth. But really it is being across both of
(18:42):
those platforms Aria and Domain because they are the biggest
databases in Australia and they have got everything that's sitting
in the market, so I would be tracking new properties
that are in the market. There is also access to
pass sales tu Lana.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
I want to ask you about off market sales because
you said before that you really love those. It's a
really cool way for people to get access and get
in early and you know, maybe avoid some of the
heat that you can feel at auction.
Speaker 3 (19:07):
The competition.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
The competition exactly right, But how do we even find
those because they're not listed on real estate, So how
do we figure out where they are. How do we
do I guess that same due diligence because we're not
running a campaign in the same way that you would
for an.
Speaker 3 (19:20):
Auction and you're not seeing that advertising everything.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
Okay, right, so how do we even where do we
start with those?
Speaker 3 (19:25):
So first place to start is to call Lana Samuels
at White Fox and ask her what off markets she has.
Speaker 2 (19:31):
She's a queen, she's going to help you out.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
In all honesty, the best way is the agents have
the off market. So the way that we run an
off market in our business is every property that is
going to market automatically has an off market period. So
what that means is you've got a two week period
give or take where you bring buyers through before it
actually hits the market. It's a great way for an
(19:53):
agent to also get feedback on price. So going back
to that auction, we do that automatically so that when
we're pricing, we know we're on the money. No pun intend.
Speaker 2 (20:00):
Really smart, correct, very smooth too, so we can.
Speaker 3 (20:03):
Get feedback from buyers. You know, we're feeling it's going
to be sitting around X. What's your thoughts, Oh, I
think that's a bit high or no, I think that's
you know, a lay down bazette. So an off market
period essentially is the agent taking a property out to
their database or people that they know and getting them
through homes for early access before it hitting the market.
There is a lot of off market deals happening in
(20:23):
the background at the moment because there is a very
low stock level online and available. So a lot of
vendors the last few months have been testing the waters
before jumping into a full campaign and the emotional side
of open for inspections and auctions and private sales, whatever
it may be. So the best way to get access
is if you do got to open for inspections, to
(20:45):
let the agent know that you are interested to hear
any off markets. I get weekly calls from buyers that
we've met. You know that we're speaking to look LINEA,
that one wasn't quite right because of X, Y and Z. However,
if you've got a property on this land side, this accommodation,
close to this, this, and this, would you please let
me know. So I build my own little database within
my team of hot buyers that are ready to buy
(21:07):
and with their certain briefs, so we call through them
and let them know in advance, but I would be
recommending as a buyer, if you are interested, you want
your finger on the pulse to reach out to a
handful of your local agents or agents within the area
that you're looking to buy and giving them your brief
so that you are front of mind.
Speaker 2 (21:22):
Yeah, okay, so connecting and letting them know exactly what
you're looking for, correct, because then if something pops up
that seems like it fits, they can get in touch
and let you know correct.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
I had one on the weekend. We've got an off
marker that is coming to market. A friend of mine
reached out to me on Saturday night and said, I'm
with someone. This is the brief and I just listed
it last week and I was like, beautiful toy. Yesterday
they've done a drive by. It fits the brief to perfection,
and I know that they're ready to buy. Yeah, and they're.
Speaker 1 (21:49):
Hot to go.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
So they're coming in tomorrow with us and hopefully it'll
be sold this week.
Speaker 2 (21:53):
Oh excited.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
And the vendor doesn't have to pay for marketing and
they don't have to go through all the layers that
comes with taking property to campaign, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (22:00):
Which makes their life that a little bit easier, which
is a little bit we all love, don't we Absolutely incredible.
I guess the last question that I have for you
is for anyone who is kind of starting that journey.
They're looking there, putting their finger on the polls, and
they're doing it for the first time. What recommendations do
you have them? What I guess piece of wisdom. Having
worked in this industry and done incredibly well in it
(22:22):
for so many years, what would you suggest to them
in terms of just being as prepared as they can.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
There's a few steps, I think, having all your background
due diligence in order, so making sure that if you
are seriously looking, getting your finance in order, having a
solicitor ready to go to review contracts. Make sure that
if you find a home that you are doing all
your due diligence too, so reviewing the contract during your
pest and building inspection. Making sure that you're out there
(22:49):
actively on weekends. Although it can be tea, especially when
there's limited options, but go out and explore and find
out what you really want. Don't do what I've always done,
whereas I'll buy house a site unsen I've done crazy
things over the years, but you have to trust your
gut feeling. Nothing's ever going to be perfect. You're never
going to get a property that's ten out of ten.
(23:10):
But have your non negotiables that are in your back
pocket when you're actually seriously considering a home, and make
sure you do your research and that you feel really
comfortable when you buy. I think for anyone buying for
the first time in this market, I would just be
really mindful of any interest rates that are coming up
and not being overstretched to the point where you actually
(23:30):
don't enjoy where you live anymore. So I think we've
all got that under control to some degree, given that
it's our twelve interest rate hik, so we've all been
bashed over the head many times. But really make sure
that you're organized and that you're ready to buy if
the right one comes up, because there's nothing worse than
when we find a buyer for a property and there's
multiple pople people interested and it's perfect, but they're just
(23:53):
not ready to go, and then they end up missing
out on the opportunity. So make sure that you've got
all your ducks in a row, that you've done your research,
you know what you want, and you get her second
opinion so it's hard when you can be an impulse
buyer or just generally like me in the fashion I
impulse by everything.
Speaker 2 (24:09):
Get a little bit guilty that in this life you're just.
Speaker 3 (24:11):
Getting a few people that know what they're doing to
be there with you along the way. I get so
many of my friends in the past have asked me
to come and look at homes for them. So if
you know anyone within the industry, if you've got you know,
somebody that's bought multiple homes, mom and dad, whatever it
may be, just get someone along the journey with you
so that you feel really comfortable.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Yeah, And as someone who used to work in the
real estate industry, I think even if you're not sure,
if you're reaching out to someone to see if they're
the right fit. More often than not, if I reached
out to Lana and she was like, I haven't got
anything for you, you might know someone who does. I
feel like everyone's really interconnected, and so especially in Melbourne
one hundred percent, it's as you said, it's a very
very small space, even though it seems big, and so
(24:50):
there's no harm in reaching out. The worst case that
someone says is I'm really sorry. I can't help you,
but they might be able to point you along the
way and help you get there. So thank you so much.
I feel like that's giving a really interesting little market
update for everybody. And if, guys, if you do want
to chat to Lana, will have all of her information
in the show notes. Definitely check her out. She's an
absolute angel. We love her so much and we're so
(25:12):
grateful for your time today.
Speaker 3 (25:13):
Thank you for having me amazing.
Speaker 2 (25:15):
Just before we head off, let's quickly wrap the boring
but important stuff. The advice shared on the Property Playbook
is generally in nature and does not consider your individual circumstances.
The Property Playbook exists purely for educational purposes and should
not be relied upon to make an investment or a
financial decision. We'll see in the next episode. Guys. Bye,
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