On this episode host Pete Moore sits down with Spoonful founder Bradley Gifford, an entrepreneur whose discusses his fairly non-traditional path from digital marketing to healthy food innovator. He opens up about how a childhood wake-up call around his health spurred a lifelong passion for wellness, ultimately leading him to shed over 70 pounds and dive headfirst into the world of nutritious food.
Pete and Brad explore the realities of launching a consumer brand, the structural challenges of modern food marketing, and the importance of genuine relationships—both with retail partners and the local community. He opens up about the discipline required to bootstrap a product-based business, the surprising gaps in the industry, and a recent investment from Pharrell Williams and the Brooklyn Nets ownership group.
When it comes to marketing, Gifford mentions, "The trick is to tow the line from a positioning and a branding sense . . . where you're able to appeal to a wide variety of consumers, without compromising on any of the things that matter as a company. And that's really where your kind of magic can be found, and that's where Spoonful was born."
Key themes discussed
- Challenges of healthy food accessibility and education.
- Brand differentiation in the competitive food market.
- Importance of community and local partnerships.
- Navigating premium pricing and brand positioning.
- Building relationships with retailers and customers.
- Funding, bootstrapping, and scaling a food startup.
A few key takeaways:
1. Personal Health Journey Sparked the Business: Gifford’s entry into the healthy food industry was deeply personal. After a childhood spent eating sugary cereals and developing high blood pressure at 12, he overhauled his lifestyle, losing 70 pounds. That made him passionate about making healthy food more accessible, enjoyable, and convenient—laying the foundation for Spoonful.
2. Gap in the Market for Healthy, Enjoyable Food: Working at the Dog Pound gym and later Spartan, he observed that even wellness-focused spaces lacked truly healthy, flavorful, and fresh food options. Many brands positioned as healthy didn’t resonate with people who didn’t already identify as “healthy” eaters.
3. Community, Accessibility, and Premium Positioning: Spoonful took a grassroots-first approach, focusing on being present in local cafés and community-centric spots rather than immediately trying to target big grocery chains. This emphasized deep relationships with partners, selecting venues with strong local reputations and limited healthy food choices—which allowed Spoonful to command premium pricing.
4. Building Brand Through Relationships: Bradley stressed the critical importance of face-to-face relationship-building in the early stages of Spoonful. Whether with café owners, staff, or customers, personal connections allowed for valuable feedback, trust, and loyalty. This also made community events and collaborations a key part of their growth.
5. Bootstrapping, Funding, and Thoughtful Growth: Spoonful was bootstrapped from the start, with a disciplined and selective approach to capital raising and expansion. Brad highlighted the challenges of working capital and the need for recurring revenue through B2B partnerships (like supplying offices.) He recently also secured investment from notable backers (Pharrell Williams and Brooklyn Nets owners), but also advocates founders rigorously vet growth opportunities, avoid overextending, and focus on sustainable, margin-positive deals.
Resources:
- Bradley Gifford: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bradley-gifford<
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
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leads flow based on the wizard. Go get them.
This is Pete Moore on Halo Talks NYC. I have the pleasure of
(01:07):
bringing entrepreneur Bradley Gifford hailing from Dobro,
which now is Downtown Brooklyn. He's gonna talk about his,
pivot from being a, digital
marketer to a, a healthy food
provider to our halo sector. So, Bradley, welcome to the
show. Pete, Tom, David, thank you very much for having
(01:29):
me. You got it. So, so look, jump right
in, here. You know, the best entrepreneurs are are ones
that solve frustrations that they have for themselves.
I grew up on a, healthy mix of
Apple Jacks, Frosted Flakes, Coco Pebbles,
Honey Nut Cheerios. So I was satiated with a lot of sugar,
(01:52):
back in the day. So, talk about some of your own issues that you had
and say, hey. I gotta actually make this my full time job and,
Yeah. And solve some of these problems. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean,
that that childhood experience, like many of us share, is, I
would say, the jumping off point for my health and fitness journey.
Because when I was 12 years old, my pediatrician told me I
(02:14):
had high blood pressure, and I would have hypertension before I was 30
if I continued with the habits that, you know, I was
kinda demonstrating. So as a division three athlete in college,
that was really when I sort of hit a fork in the road and really
decided to overhaul a lot of my habits and ended up fixing a
lot of my ailments and on the way losing about 70 pounds. So you
(02:37):
could say Wow. That was really the the kind of first step to my health
and fitness journey and kind of fell in love with the space. And it's been
a it's been a roll roller coaster of a ride ever since. Have
you, had did you have to change your position
in, in your sport of choice given you lose 70 pounds?
Thankfully, I I didn't. I was I mean, I have I feel like pretty
(02:59):
good feet and soft hands, so I was always on the on the bigger
guard side from a skill set standpoint. So it actually allowed me to do my
job a lot better. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah. My passion
is catching footballs, and I still have four years of
eligibility at age 52. So I, I'll send you some
videos of some, some catches I, used to make
(03:21):
probably probably not not gonna get an NIL deal anytime
soon. If Ohio State needs a walk on, then then I'll tell them who
to call. Ohio State up and down. Where wherever I can find a spot,
I'll go. But, you know, you you kinda talk,
a lot in your, you know, in your bios here of, you know, like,
the processed foods and the things that most kids are exposed to. Even some
(03:44):
of the things that are healthy are really not healthy. I kinda wanna go
after the people that determine what the serving sizes are
of, of some of these snacks that you buy, you know, at the
airport where you think you're buying, you know, a trail mix, but the trail mix
has, you know, 10 serving sizes. And nobody folds that thing
up nine times. So, you know, you get, like, a hundred grams of sugar,
(04:06):
and you you kinda didn't even know it. So talk about something like the structural
issues that we're fighting against, where we are kinda like in
the you know, if we're looking at baseball, like, what inning are we in Mhmm.
And actually educating people, and then the the path that you're taking to
try and create change. No. Absolutely. You know, I think,
you know, first off, to to call out kind of the
(04:28):
access versus education kinda, I guess, barriers that there
are for all of us. And some of that is by design.
You know, you may live in a part of town where certain resources,
whether it be a studio or better for you food or
fresh produce and so on and so forth simply isn't available.
And then there's also the simply just being misled, which
(04:51):
many of us consumers are. And a lot of times, we
end up finding solutions from trial and error and having to kind of
bang our heads up against the wall for a while before we really find what
works for us. But, you know, I think because of the long sort
of winding road that has been the emergence of better for
you brands and them kind of a lot of leaders or producers in the
(05:13):
space kinda undoing a lot of the knots and kinda webs that were tied
up by big codes that were making products purely for profit, not
really with the consumer's needs in mind. I think we're we're in the fifth
inning. I would say we're at this interesting sort of halfway point where
you're seeing the rise in things like social fitness, the
loneliness epidemic that's kinda being solved with the emergence of things
(05:36):
like outdoor affinity groups, whether it be running or hiking or walking.
But then you're also seeing the sober curious movement
sort of bubble up as well, obviously. You know, we have athletic growing to thank
for that. The advocacy around plant based living, whether it be
for health or environmental reasons, and then
simply, I think, all in all, the commodification of
(05:58):
the healthy lifestyle is something that is uber aspirational
and requires a massive, you know, financial commitment in order to be
able to maintain. It's making a lot of us sort of lean on
each other and I would say call on what our
community leaders are providing to be able to make some of these
resources or information just a bit more digestible
(06:20):
for for lack of a better word. No pun intended. But to make it something
that isn't seen as, just something that is a lifestyle
for a specific group of people, but a lifestyle we can live
by simply adopting a certain type of ideals as well as
habits. You know, when you started the company and for everyone
here, spoonful,uh,.life and started mostly with with
(06:43):
breakfast, and and and oatmeal. You know, when
entrepreneurs have a passion for for doing something, they feel like conviction and, hey.
I'm gonna devote my life to this. Sometimes they don't say, like, hey. The there
there's alternatives out there, and I could just buy these products.
What was kind of the the the the inflection point or, like, the
turning point for you to say, like, yeah. I might be able to go buy
(07:05):
x y z brand, but, like, I wanna do it my way,
and it solved frustrations for me. And I know that there are a lot of
people similar to me, and therefore, I'm gonna be an entrepreneur, you know,
in the food industry instead of base you know, basically just
changing my habits and, you know, buying certain other brands that that
might fulfill what I'm trying to fulfill. Definitely. So I
(07:27):
first had the idea for Spoonful while I was still working at a
gym called Dog Pound in New York City. So it was doing
their Instagram and helping them build community and really
cool partnerships, but, you know, noticed that our food and
bev selection wasn't totally emblematic
of the values around f and b that our customers
(07:50):
would want. So I just started to kinda question why was
there kinda seemingly this gap in product availability.
And once we were able to bring some of these better for you things into
the fold, seeing the branding and just simply the
positioning and messaging that a lot of these brands were kinda taking on, and I
felt like there's a lot more unhealthy people out there than people that
(08:12):
are considered, you know, by the by the letter, you know, healthy.
So if this is something that isn't totally working
because the prevailing kind of sentiment that unhealthy people have
around healthy food is it lacks taste, it lacks flavor, it lacks
fun, and it takes a bit of the enjoyment out
of food. So what about a brand
(08:34):
can put a lot of those concerns at bay and offer something
that is healthy, delicious, convenient, accessible,
comprehensive without compromising on any of those things
that make food enjoyable for us. And just as I started to
kinda look around and started working more in the, I
would say, like, the established brand space, I was actually working for Spartan
(08:57):
at the time, taking on a contract, doing some
content around the release of their first training shoe. And as I
was in their office and they had this massive snack
selection, but a lot of it was dry goods. There was some fresh
fruit, but other than your apples, your oranges, your bananas,
you had a lot of the like you just described earlier, the airport
(09:19):
snacks. So I felt like even in this uber
performance oriented kind of professional atmosphere,
there isn't a lot of thought around freshness.
So as I'm still, you know, enjoying the benefits of working in this,
you know, great office space, I'm still bringing my food to work with
me. So I felt like this is really something that
(09:40):
clearly me as the performance person, as the gym head,
found a lot of value in, but I felt like maybe I'm not seeing it
from the right perspective because my worldview is a bit
more narrow. But once I, you know, left working in a gym and was
out in the corporate world and kinda saw this need in an even
in an even deeper sense, I felt like, alright. Maybe there's
(10:02):
something really, really here, and the trick is to tow this
line from a positioning and a branding sense where you're able to appeal
to a wide variety of consumers without compromising on any
of the things that matter as a company. And that's really
where your kind of magic can be found, and that's where Spoonful was
born. This is
(10:24):
Pete Moore. I wanna let you in on a little secret. There's this company
called Promotion Vault, and what they do is they give out rewards from
retailers that allow you to incentivize your members
without having to do zero down and one month free or
giving away shakes or giving away t shirts. What you wanna do is
build a rewards program that lasts, that people value,
(10:47):
and that doesn't discount your own products and services. So here's the deal.
There's something called rewards vault. The rewards vault is going to
allow a member to set up their own profile. They are going to
answer questions. You are gonna get those answers. You're gonna be able to target
those members, and you're gonna reward them inside your club,
inside your spa, and outside of the club, and outside of the
(11:09):
spa to get them to become loyal, to get them to pay their
monthly dues, and to be rewarded properly for the
actions. A lot of companies are cutting back on rewards. You shouldn't be.
Promotion Vault's your answer. Trust me. This is real.
I'm still shocked when I sometimes buy, like, a new protein bar or,
(11:31):
like, a protein, like, Pop Tart that I'm trying to
figure out. Did anyone taste test this thing before they they put it on the
shelf? Because it's it's it dries your mouth up or just like
I don't know whose taste buds it it actually appeals to.
So I'm kinda shocked by that. Maybe they're actually not the user. They're just, like,
the processor of it. It it it shocks me. I think I might be I
(11:54):
might be that user to to shamefully admit. I mean, I'm
one of the small percentage of people that I think if it helps me hit
my nutrient my nutrition goals, then I'll eat something that
tastes like dirt, or I'll eat something that may not be the best,
but I don't wanna do it all the time. But you're absolutely right. Like, it
it doesn't go far. It doesn't appeal to nearly as many
(12:15):
people as I'm sure those brands will will want to. Yeah.
So, you know, you started the company. You know, you started doing this kind of
moonlighting to to an extent, now doing this full time. Yeah.
Building a a a consumer brand, obviously, you know, it
costs a lot of money, to market consumers. You know, you go grassroots. You
guys are out of out of Brooklyn. Obviously, there's a lot of density, you know,
(12:37):
in the tri state area that could build a business, you know, in and of
itself, not necessarily, you know, needing to go nationwide.
But what are some of the, maybe shortcuts or,
you know, areas of, influence that you were able to get into
that helped you validate, hey. I can actually put a decent amount
of volume through, on Spoonful. And then, you
(12:58):
know, what the percentage of people that, you know,
wanna eat oatmeal and, you know, a lot of people don't eat breakfast
now, might just have a cup of coffee. So so how did how did you
kinda think about your entry point? Mhmm. And then how do you spend as
as an early stage company, you know, your money wisely to get get the
brand out there? Yeah. Yeah. No. Second part
(13:21):
is amazing question. We could go go all day about it. But the
first part is I thought about all
the moments that I've been in between work and
home, needed something fresh, and thought about where do
I go buy those things. But to take it a step further, I
thought about where can I go buy those things that my competition
(13:43):
wouldn't be? Because I think about your
coffee shops, your smoothie bar, your juice
bar, some specialty grocers if they're, you know, niche
enough. But I looked at places that had an amazing
reputation in the community because I felt like I wanna
be seen as favorably as the places that
(14:06):
people go and buy my product are. And I'm able to
achieve that through some sort of, you know, similar kind of association
that doesn't really happen with grocery stores unless
you're Erewhon, for example. But that loyalty
to your bagel place, to your coffee shop, You go in
there. You get the same thing. The people know who you are, and some of
(14:28):
your identity or even your friendships might be
cultivated or built around you frequenting this place of business.
So I felt like because of who I knew would take to a product like
Spoonful and just, you know, had a gut feeling, I looked
at all the cafes that had that type of affinity in their
community and then just looked at places that had very limited food and
(14:49):
beverage selections. I thought it was going to be incredibly
capital intensive to go into a
grocery store shelf and do all the marketing and promotions
and demoing around my product that I would have to do to get people to
notice versus I can just drop this thing off, merchandise it
thoughtfully, and it sells. And I was able to do that
(15:12):
over and over and over again at a handful of places in New York and
The Hamptons. And where I really felt like I found something was
we launched in we launched in April of twenty
twenty two, and I wanna say maybe in June, we got our first
account in The Hamptons, and the place sold out of their first
order in a day. And that place was actually
(15:34):
charging, I wanna say, maybe 2 to $3 more per unit than any other
place that was carrying spoonful at the time. So I felt like not
only is the product selling because it's meeting a need for people,
but it's also something that clearly when positioned right and sold in the right
place, people are willing to pay far above the category average
for. So I need to now find more places that
(15:55):
validate that position as premium and be super selective
about how we roll that out so people understand why
we're different from, you know, the biggest competitor or the leader in our
category, which is sold for $2 at every Whole Foods and Sprouts
around the country. Can't compete with that. So had to stand out a different
way. Yeah. You know, a lot of people I I used to work for a
(16:17):
guy who said, you know, once you give up on once you give on
price, you never get it back. So being a premium brand I
can't And also Yes. Also also being local,
how much do you think that matters? And if you think about, like, the
beer industry Mhmm. Your craft beer industry, a lot of the craft
beer brands are now owned by some of the larger
(16:41):
players because they couldn't really replicate that affinity
and that grassroots following. Some of them botched it.
Some of them have have held true to it by not people not knowing.
You know, it's owned by N. I. Bush or what have you. Yeah. How how
important is that? And and how important as an entrepreneur,
because a lot of people come up with business plans and they'll do marketing. You
(17:04):
know, the fact that you, you know, Bradley walk in and you're like, yo,
who's behind this brand? It's like me. Like, I'm the guy. Like, we're actually
building a relationship. I'm not like you're not a vendor. You know,
I'm like a partner. How do you kinda tow the line with that?
And how important is, you know, face to face selling?
In the early days, I would say for an emerging
(17:26):
brand, it's everything. Yeah.
Because it's great to be able to build up this base of
business, pass it off to your distributor. And now when you walk into
these places, people know you, people remember you, you have that
equity, and you're able to ask for things. The thing that I
had to get used to being a very antsy,
(17:48):
you know, bootstrap company was, at the end of the day, even though people
are buying a finished product, it's still all about relationships.
Yep. So going into Fairway on the Upper West Side and getting
to know the category managers, getting to know the people that stock the product,
getting to know the people that are most closest to your
product before it gets to the consumer, I felt like, a, they would be able
(18:11):
to tell me a lot of useful things that I may not be able to
find out on an industry blog or on a podcast,
but from somebody that's really in it doing it every day.
But then, you know, also realizing when something goes
wrong, it's a pretty tough conversation to have with somebody when you
walk into their store and say, this is messed up and we gotta fix
(18:32):
it, and that's the first time you're meeting them. Yeah. Yeah.
So so to be able to have that rapport with somebody before you
go in and ask for favors or in spoonful's case,
we do a lot of community events, so we do different outreach whether we
partner with a run crew or we host a meditation or we wanna do a
meetup for founders, knowing that I'm bringing this kinda
(18:54):
added layer of value to your establishment other than, hey. I got this
product. I gotta make money. Sell it. But, hey. I really care
about being in your store. We're only choosing to
be in a handful of places right now, and you really fit that criteria.
And I'm willing to invest by making sure
everybody in my community knows that you can buy a spoonful here.
(19:17):
And there's not many places in the entire city that I'm gonna be able to
say that about. So I think investing in that and I wouldn't
say making them feel special, but making them feel like the relationship
matters to you and the business. Mhmm. You know, as you look
at, expanding your team and bringing on
salespeople, I feel like there's there's a culture of,
(19:39):
you know, oh, I sent a text message. Oh, I sent an email. You know,
I'm all for There's all about that. This person's name? Do you know, like,
do you know how to sell? Do you know how to build a relationship? You
know? And if you're taking my product or my service and you're you're taking
it off of your menu, you know, you're breaking up with me. Right? Because
because I I know I'm fulfilling a good product, and and you're basically, like,
(20:00):
you know, trying to save, like, 25 or 50¢. Like, that's not what
it's all about here. Are you finding the people that you
wanna find, or how hard is it to find people that are passionate
that also could kinda that that are aggressive, but not
annoyingly aggressive, but are relationally
aggressive, I guess, is a term that I just made up. I like
(20:23):
that. I like that. Those people have
found me. Nice. One of the, good
piece of advice that I got from a gentleman by the name
of Jeff Hoffman. He's a cofounder of Priceline. He
said, with when it comes to finding and
hiring good talent, anybody you want is already gonna
(20:45):
have another job. So what are you going to do,
whether it's directly or indirectly, to create something
and facilitate a relationship where that person feels like
this is so worth it, or I believe in this thing so much, I'm willing
to let go of my current position to explore this new
opportunity. And my mind has always been on making
(21:08):
sure that I'm building that to the best of my ability.
And I've heard from other founders, and, you know, Jeff kinda validated
it with me as well. But if you do that continuously and own
that, the people will come to you simply saying, well, how can I
help? I believe in this thing. I love what you're doing. I've seen you over
here in this place or that place. My friends talk about you. I've tried the
(21:30):
product, and I think it tastes great. Are you hiring? What do you need? How
can I help? And those are the best kind of relationships
because there are people that, like you said, are, you
know, relationally relation relationally aggressive.
But it's a good kinda hunger where I feel like I'm able to
empower this person with all the technical things, and I don't have to worry
(21:53):
too much about motivating them, teaching them, making
them, you know, look around corners or find the things that really make their job
worthwhile and have the highest impact for the company. All of that stuff kinda
comes naturally, and I'm able to just be more of a, you know,
technical guardrails around processes and just sharing
information and keeping everybody up to speed.
(22:16):
This is Pete Moore. Here's the last tip for you of the podcast.
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(22:39):
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(23:01):
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(23:27):
You know, when you take a look at any business, whether it's a food or
whether it's a beverage that are going into, you know, small establishments,
and I've I've invested in some companies, I've looked to invest, and there's
always just, like, working capital, you know, wall that you have to climb.
Yeah. You know, given given your background as a
as an entrepreneur, have you found a lot of either, you
(23:49):
know, inventory based lending? Have you found
investors that are saying, hey. I'll help you kinda bridge that
working capital, wall and and that, you know, basically,
that timing of of when you get paid and how much product you have out
there? And and how how do you feel about the current
environment? There's a there's a lot of groups out there that say, hey. We're, you
(24:10):
know, we're here. We're gonna work with, you know, strong, you
know, growth companies in in CPG. And then
when you get down to the terms, it's like, you know, is did is there
a was there is this a typo? You know, either in, like, you
know, the interest rate or, you know, the payback schedule or, you know, if
I take this money, I'm not even sure if my margin, you know, could cover
(24:32):
the the the capital cost. Right. So how have you have you been
able to overcome that? Or, you know, is it do you see any,
other people that understand, like, hey. I might I need to help you bridge this.
And once I get to a certain level, you know, kind of the working capital
engine kinda will feed itself. Yeah. We so we've been
a % bootstrapped to date. We recently closed
(24:54):
on investment from Pharrell Williams and the
owners of the Brooklyn Nets. So, a really kinda
fortunate breakthrough for us there. So we won't be bootstrapped for too much
longer. But to this point, I
haven't been able to actually secure a lot of, I guess, loans, you
could say, or inventory financing purely because we
(25:17):
just haven't made enough revenue. And it's almost been a chicken
or the egg where you say, well, I need money to make more rev make
more inventory so I can sell and make more revenue, and then I'll be at
the benchmark. But you have to find you know, kinda find a way. And,
thankfully, I've leaned on my network for
little bridges here and there, but I've also been lucky
(25:39):
enough to you know, because of our b two b kind of focus, we've been
able to have a bit more, I think, recurring revenue than a
retail business might because I know that every week,
these 24 offices are buying x amount of cases from
me. So that recurring revenue is something that, as an
emerging brand, I definitely kind of encourage some founders to go after and
(26:02):
look at because, like you said, grocery stores really don't
have an incentive to keep you on. It's purely about margins
and relationship, but the office manager that you know,
everybody in BCG or, Conde Nast,
everybody loves Spoonful. She might be a little more reluctant
to totally ax the budget on breakfast
(26:24):
knowing what the employees might say and the way people might ask about it.
So even if it's a right sizing of a budget or a, you know,
slight reduction in that revenue, it's not a total pulling the
rug out from underneath us. So our business model has definitely allowed us to
have a bit more cash flow that kinda steadily comes in,
but we've definitely had to sacrifice on scale to be
(26:46):
bootstrapped and simply just pass up on a lot of opportunities
to get a new doors because of everything you described in terms of
whether it be the payback schedule, the lack of manpower
to think if we go into this account, do we have the boots on the
ground to guarantee that velocity and ensure that sell through? If we
don't, how much is it gonna cost? Can we afford it? And if not, then
(27:09):
it's just gonna have to be a thank you. I really appreciate it.
Not right now, and let's keep the line open. And when we're ready, we would
love to circle back and see what we can do. So I think it's
required a lot of discipline and kind of rigor,
but I think it's put us in a really good place to really just go
after things that we know will work, things that we know will
(27:32):
provide value to our customer, things that are positive for our
margins that aren't too cost intensive, and it allows us
to continue to tell our story and kind of fortify our
position. And those are the kind of filters that we've run through
aside from how many doors can this bring us in or what's the size of
this PO and a lot of other things that maybe top line get founders
(27:54):
super excited. But then six months from then, we kinda look up and
say, shit. Was this was this the rest of the idea? Yeah.
Yeah. Well, Well, congrats on what you built. Sounds like you've done it
very methodically. I love the idea of going into these places
that, you know, you frequent and, that, you know,
wanna feel like they've got some, you know, pseudo exclusivity,
(28:16):
if you will. And when this podcast launches, we'll do a we'll do a big
pitch to, to some of the office, you know, the building
managers and the, and and the companies that you know about this and try and
get you Thank you. Some more distribution. And, you know, before you do
any deals with any health clubs, or cafes, let's, you know,
ping me, please. I'll tell you if that's a good idea or not.
(28:38):
Sometimes they they say that they could provide more volume than they actually can.
We'll we'll we'll sidebar about of our recommendations. I appreciate
it. And we use this term halo, health active lifestyle outdoors. We're trying to solve
loneliness, obesity, and diabetes. And a big big portion of that is,
you know, what you put in your body, you know, what time of day, and
at at what, what portion control. So great to have you on, man.
(29:00):
Glad we met. Dave Ganel, and thanks for making this happen. Thank you.
And, we could definitely we definitely talk for hours, and let's,
let's plan to get together in, in person at some point. We'll we'll have to
sit down in person and and dive into it a bit more, I think. Awesome.
Alright, man. We'll keep doing you good things and, this affects a lot of people
probably more than you know. So congrats on what you built and,
(29:21):
love a good entrepreneurial story where, you know, you kinda kinda
know the road that you have to be on and that you don't deviate from
it. So some of the the best decisions are the ones you don't
jump into. I've done a lot of deals where you take on accounts and you're
like, oh, if I got the Gold's Gym brand, you know, everything's gonna work out
and then you realize, like, it's not profitable and it's efficient license.
(29:43):
And, you know, you stay on the right path and, don't make mistakes,
you're you end up in a good place. So congrats, man. Good stuff. Glad to
meet you. I appreciate it. Likewise. Hopefully, I'll see you guys soon. You
got it. Alright, bud. Thank you. Spoonful.life.
I am super excited to announce that we now have a formal partnership
with the prospect wizard. And when I say wizard, I mean
wizard. Obviously, you have a website. This allows you to
convert your website traffic visitors directly into
leads. It's not just another chatbot, and it's not AI, but it
allows a visitor to call, text, or leave a voice mail.
(00:23):
Immediately goes to you, your sales team, or anyone else in the club instantly.
MIT shows a study that if you contact the lead within ten minutes,
chance of them converting goes up nine times that of the
average. We got the Atlanta clubs on it, Vida Fitness,
Gold's Gym, Mountainside, City Fitness Philly,
College Park. Become one of the next halo
(00:46):
companies to deploy the wizard. It's easy to use. Go to the
prospectwizard.com. Get a free thirty day trial. Talk to
my boy, Dave Gallon. He will get you all set up and let the
leads flow based on the wizard. Go get them.
This is Pete Moore on Halo Talks NYC. I have the pleasure of
(01:07):
bringing entrepreneur Bradley Gifford hailing from Dobro,
which now is Downtown Brooklyn. He's gonna talk about his,
pivot from being a, digital
marketer to a, a healthy food
provider to our halo sector. So, Bradley, welcome to the
show. Pete, Tom, David, thank you very much for having
(01:29):
me. You got it. So, so look, jump right
in, here. You know, the best entrepreneurs are are ones
that solve frustrations that they have for themselves.
I grew up on a, healthy mix of
Apple Jacks, Frosted Flakes, Coco Pebbles,
Honey Nut Cheerios. So I was satiated with a lot of sugar,
(01:52):
back in the day. So, talk about some of your own issues that you had
and say, hey. I gotta actually make this my full time job and,
Yeah. And solve some of these problems. Yeah. Absolutely. I mean,
that that childhood experience, like many of us share, is, I
would say, the jumping off point for my health and fitness journey.
Because when I was 12 years old, my pediatrician told me I
(02:14):
had high blood pressure, and I would have hypertension before I was 30
if I continued with the habits that, you know, I was
kinda demonstrating. So as a division three athlete in college,
that was really when I sort of hit a fork in the road and really
decided to overhaul a lot of my habits and ended up fixing a
lot of my ailments and on the way losing about 70 pounds. So you
(02:37):
could say Wow. That was really the the kind of first step to my health
and fitness journey and kind of fell in love with the space. And it's been
a it's been a roll roller coaster of a ride ever since. Have
you, had did you have to change your position
in, in your sport of choice given you lose 70 pounds?
Thankfully, I I didn't. I was I mean, I have I feel like pretty
(02:59):
good feet and soft hands, so I was always on the on the bigger
guard side from a skill set standpoint. So it actually allowed me to do my
job a lot better. Okay. Gotcha. Yeah. My passion
is catching footballs, and I still have four years of
eligibility at age 52. So I, I'll send you some
videos of some, some catches I, used to make
(03:21):
probably probably not not gonna get an NIL deal anytime
soon. If Ohio State needs a walk on, then then I'll tell them who
to call. Ohio State up and down. Where wherever I can find a spot,
I'll go. But, you know, you you kinda talk,
a lot in your, you know, in your bios here of, you know, like,
the processed foods and the things that most kids are exposed to. Even some
(03:44):
of the things that are healthy are really not healthy. I kinda wanna go
after the people that determine what the serving sizes are
of, of some of these snacks that you buy, you know, at the
airport where you think you're buying, you know, a trail mix, but the trail mix
has, you know, 10 serving sizes. And nobody folds that thing
up nine times. So, you know, you get, like, a hundred grams of sugar,
(04:06):
and you you kinda didn't even know it. So talk about something like the structural
issues that we're fighting against, where we are kinda like in
the you know, if we're looking at baseball, like, what inning are we in Mhmm.
And actually educating people, and then the the path that you're taking to
try and create change. No. Absolutely. You know, I think,
you know, first off, to to call out kind of the
(04:28):
access versus education kinda, I guess, barriers that there
are for all of us. And some of that is by design.
You know, you may live in a part of town where certain resources,
whether it be a studio or better for you food or
fresh produce and so on and so forth simply isn't available.
And then there's also the simply just being misled, which
(04:51):
many of us consumers are. And a lot of times, we
end up finding solutions from trial and error and having to kind of
bang our heads up against the wall for a while before we really find what
works for us. But, you know, I think because of the long sort
of winding road that has been the emergence of better for
you brands and them kind of a lot of leaders or producers in the
(05:13):
space kinda undoing a lot of the knots and kinda webs that were tied
up by big codes that were making products purely for profit, not
really with the consumer's needs in mind. I think we're we're in the fifth
inning. I would say we're at this interesting sort of halfway point where
you're seeing the rise in things like social fitness, the
loneliness epidemic that's kinda being solved with the emergence of things
(05:36):
like outdoor affinity groups, whether it be running or hiking or walking.
But then you're also seeing the sober curious movement
sort of bubble up as well, obviously. You know, we have athletic growing to thank
for that. The advocacy around plant based living, whether it be
for health or environmental reasons, and then
simply, I think, all in all, the commodification of
(05:58):
the healthy lifestyle is something that is uber aspirational
and requires a massive, you know, financial commitment in order to be
able to maintain. It's making a lot of us sort of lean on
each other and I would say call on what our
community leaders are providing to be able to make some of these
resources or information just a bit more digestible
(06:20):
for for lack of a better word. No pun intended. But to make it something
that isn't seen as, just something that is a lifestyle
for a specific group of people, but a lifestyle we can live
by simply adopting a certain type of ideals as well as
habits. You know, when you started the company and for everyone
here, spoonful,uh,.life and started mostly with with
(06:43):
breakfast, and and and oatmeal. You know, when
entrepreneurs have a passion for for doing something, they feel like conviction and, hey.
I'm gonna devote my life to this. Sometimes they don't say, like, hey. The there
there's alternatives out there, and I could just buy these products.
What was kind of the the the the inflection point or, like, the
turning point for you to say, like, yeah. I might be able to go buy
(07:05):
x y z brand, but, like, I wanna do it my way,
and it solved frustrations for me. And I know that there are a lot of
people similar to me, and therefore, I'm gonna be an entrepreneur, you know,
in the food industry instead of base you know, basically just
changing my habits and, you know, buying certain other brands that that
might fulfill what I'm trying to fulfill. Definitely. So I
(07:27):
first had the idea for Spoonful while I was still working at a
gym called Dog Pound in New York City. So it was doing
their Instagram and helping them build community and really
cool partnerships, but, you know, noticed that our food and
bev selection wasn't totally emblematic
of the values around f and b that our customers
(07:50):
would want. So I just started to kinda question why was
there kinda seemingly this gap in product availability.
And once we were able to bring some of these better for you things into
the fold, seeing the branding and just simply the
positioning and messaging that a lot of these brands were kinda taking on, and I
felt like there's a lot more unhealthy people out there than people that
(08:12):
are considered, you know, by the by the letter, you know, healthy.
So if this is something that isn't totally working
because the prevailing kind of sentiment that unhealthy people have
around healthy food is it lacks taste, it lacks flavor, it lacks
fun, and it takes a bit of the enjoyment out
of food. So what about a brand
(08:34):
can put a lot of those concerns at bay and offer something
that is healthy, delicious, convenient, accessible,
comprehensive without compromising on any of those things
that make food enjoyable for us. And just as I started to
kinda look around and started working more in the, I
would say, like, the established brand space, I was actually working for Spartan
(08:57):
at the time, taking on a contract, doing some
content around the release of their first training shoe. And as I
was in their office and they had this massive snack
selection, but a lot of it was dry goods. There was some fresh
fruit, but other than your apples, your oranges, your bananas,
you had a lot of the like you just described earlier, the airport
(09:19):
snacks. So I felt like even in this uber
performance oriented kind of professional atmosphere,
there isn't a lot of thought around freshness.
So as I'm still, you know, enjoying the benefits of working in this,
you know, great office space, I'm still bringing my food to work with
me. So I felt like this is really something that
(09:40):
clearly me as the performance person, as the gym head,
found a lot of value in, but I felt like maybe I'm not seeing it
from the right perspective because my worldview is a bit
more narrow. But once I, you know, left working in a gym and was
out in the corporate world and kinda saw this need in an even
in an even deeper sense, I felt like, alright. Maybe there's
(10:02):
something really, really here, and the trick is to tow this
line from a positioning and a branding sense where you're able to appeal
to a wide variety of consumers without compromising on any
of the things that matter as a company. And that's really
where your kind of magic can be found, and that's where Spoonful was
born. This is
(10:24):
Pete Moore. I wanna let you in on a little secret. There's this company
called Promotion Vault, and what they do is they give out rewards from
retailers that allow you to incentivize your members
without having to do zero down and one month free or
giving away shakes or giving away t shirts. What you wanna do is
build a rewards program that lasts, that people value,
(10:47):
and that doesn't discount your own products and services. So here's the deal.
There's something called rewards vault. The rewards vault is going to
allow a member to set up their own profile. They are going to
answer questions. You are gonna get those answers. You're gonna be able to target
those members, and you're gonna reward them inside your club,
inside your spa, and outside of the club, and outside of the
(11:09):
spa to get them to become loyal, to get them to pay their
monthly dues, and to be rewarded properly for the
actions. A lot of companies are cutting back on rewards. You shouldn't be.
Promotion Vault's your answer. Trust me. This is real.
I'm still shocked when I sometimes buy, like, a new protein bar or,
(11:31):
like, a protein, like, Pop Tart that I'm trying to
figure out. Did anyone taste test this thing before they they put it on the
shelf? Because it's it's it dries your mouth up or just like
I don't know whose taste buds it it actually appeals to.
So I'm kinda shocked by that. Maybe they're actually not the user. They're just, like,
the processor of it. It it it shocks me. I think I might be I
(11:54):
might be that user to to shamefully admit. I mean, I'm
one of the small percentage of people that I think if it helps me hit
my nutrient my nutrition goals, then I'll eat something that
tastes like dirt, or I'll eat something that may not be the best,
but I don't wanna do it all the time. But you're absolutely right. Like, it
it doesn't go far. It doesn't appeal to nearly as many
(12:15):
people as I'm sure those brands will will want to. Yeah.
So, you know, you started the company. You know, you started doing this kind of
moonlighting to to an extent, now doing this full time. Yeah.
Building a a a consumer brand, obviously, you know, it
costs a lot of money, to market consumers. You know, you go grassroots. You
guys are out of out of Brooklyn. Obviously, there's a lot of density, you know,
(12:37):
in the tri state area that could build a business, you know, in and of
itself, not necessarily, you know, needing to go nationwide.
But what are some of the, maybe shortcuts or,
you know, areas of, influence that you were able to get into
that helped you validate, hey. I can actually put a decent amount
of volume through, on Spoonful. And then, you
(12:58):
know, what the percentage of people that, you know,
wanna eat oatmeal and, you know, a lot of people don't eat breakfast
now, might just have a cup of coffee. So so how did how did you
kinda think about your entry point? Mhmm. And then how do you spend as
as an early stage company, you know, your money wisely to get get the
brand out there? Yeah. Yeah. No. Second part
(13:21):
is amazing question. We could go go all day about it. But the
first part is I thought about all
the moments that I've been in between work and
home, needed something fresh, and thought about where do
I go buy those things. But to take it a step further, I
thought about where can I go buy those things that my competition
(13:43):
wouldn't be? Because I think about your
coffee shops, your smoothie bar, your juice
bar, some specialty grocers if they're, you know, niche
enough. But I looked at places that had an amazing
reputation in the community because I felt like I wanna
be seen as favorably as the places that
(14:06):
people go and buy my product are. And I'm able to
achieve that through some sort of, you know, similar kind of association
that doesn't really happen with grocery stores unless
you're Erewhon, for example. But that loyalty
to your bagel place, to your coffee shop, You go in
there. You get the same thing. The people know who you are, and some of
(14:28):
your identity or even your friendships might be
cultivated or built around you frequenting this place of business.
So I felt like because of who I knew would take to a product like
Spoonful and just, you know, had a gut feeling, I looked
at all the cafes that had that type of affinity in their
community and then just looked at places that had very limited food and
(14:49):
beverage selections. I thought it was going to be incredibly
capital intensive to go into a
grocery store shelf and do all the marketing and promotions
and demoing around my product that I would have to do to get people to
notice versus I can just drop this thing off, merchandise it
thoughtfully, and it sells. And I was able to do that
(15:12):
over and over and over again at a handful of places in New York and
The Hamptons. And where I really felt like I found something was
we launched in we launched in April of twenty
twenty two, and I wanna say maybe in June, we got our first
account in The Hamptons, and the place sold out of their first
order in a day. And that place was actually
(15:34):
charging, I wanna say, maybe 2 to $3 more per unit than any other
place that was carrying spoonful at the time. So I felt like not
only is the product selling because it's meeting a need for people,
but it's also something that clearly when positioned right and sold in the right
place, people are willing to pay far above the category average
for. So I need to now find more places that
(15:55):
validate that position as premium and be super selective
about how we roll that out so people understand why
we're different from, you know, the biggest competitor or the leader in our
category, which is sold for $2 at every Whole Foods and Sprouts
around the country. Can't compete with that. So had to stand out a different
way. Yeah. You know, a lot of people I I used to work for a
(16:17):
guy who said, you know, once you give up on once you give on
price, you never get it back. So being a premium brand I
can't And also Yes. Also also being local,
how much do you think that matters? And if you think about, like, the
beer industry Mhmm. Your craft beer industry, a lot of the craft
beer brands are now owned by some of the larger
(16:41):
players because they couldn't really replicate that affinity
and that grassroots following. Some of them botched it.
Some of them have have held true to it by not people not knowing.
You know, it's owned by N. I. Bush or what have you. Yeah. How how
important is that? And and how important as an entrepreneur,
because a lot of people come up with business plans and they'll do marketing. You
(17:04):
know, the fact that you, you know, Bradley walk in and you're like, yo,
who's behind this brand? It's like me. Like, I'm the guy. Like, we're actually
building a relationship. I'm not like you're not a vendor. You know,
I'm like a partner. How do you kinda tow the line with that?
And how important is, you know, face to face selling?
In the early days, I would say for an emerging
(17:26):
brand, it's everything. Yeah.
Because it's great to be able to build up this base of
business, pass it off to your distributor. And now when you walk into
these places, people know you, people remember you, you have that
equity, and you're able to ask for things. The thing that I
had to get used to being a very antsy,
(17:48):
you know, bootstrap company was, at the end of the day, even though people
are buying a finished product, it's still all about relationships.
Yep. So going into Fairway on the Upper West Side and getting
to know the category managers, getting to know the people that stock the product,
getting to know the people that are most closest to your
product before it gets to the consumer, I felt like, a, they would be able
(18:11):
to tell me a lot of useful things that I may not be able to
find out on an industry blog or on a podcast,
but from somebody that's really in it doing it every day.
But then, you know, also realizing when something goes
wrong, it's a pretty tough conversation to have with somebody when you
walk into their store and say, this is messed up and we gotta fix
(18:32):
it, and that's the first time you're meeting them. Yeah. Yeah.
So so to be able to have that rapport with somebody before you
go in and ask for favors or in spoonful's case,
we do a lot of community events, so we do different outreach whether we
partner with a run crew or we host a meditation or we wanna do a
meetup for founders, knowing that I'm bringing this kinda
(18:54):
added layer of value to your establishment other than, hey. I got this
product. I gotta make money. Sell it. But, hey. I really care
about being in your store. We're only choosing to
be in a handful of places right now, and you really fit that criteria.
And I'm willing to invest by making sure
everybody in my community knows that you can buy a spoonful here.
(19:17):
And there's not many places in the entire city that I'm gonna be able to
say that about. So I think investing in that and I wouldn't
say making them feel special, but making them feel like the relationship
matters to you and the business. Mhmm. You know, as you look
at, expanding your team and bringing on
salespeople, I feel like there's there's a culture of,
(19:39):
you know, oh, I sent a text message. Oh, I sent an email. You know,
I'm all for There's all about that. This person's name? Do you know, like,
do you know how to sell? Do you know how to build a relationship? You
know? And if you're taking my product or my service and you're you're taking
it off of your menu, you know, you're breaking up with me. Right? Because
because I I know I'm fulfilling a good product, and and you're basically, like,
(20:00):
you know, trying to save, like, 25 or 50¢. Like, that's not what
it's all about here. Are you finding the people that you
wanna find, or how hard is it to find people that are passionate
that also could kinda that that are aggressive, but not
annoyingly aggressive, but are relationally
aggressive, I guess, is a term that I just made up. I like
(20:23):
that. I like that. Those people have
found me. Nice. One of the, good
piece of advice that I got from a gentleman by the name
of Jeff Hoffman. He's a cofounder of Priceline. He
said, with when it comes to finding and
hiring good talent, anybody you want is already gonna
(20:45):
have another job. So what are you going to do,
whether it's directly or indirectly, to create something
and facilitate a relationship where that person feels like
this is so worth it, or I believe in this thing so much, I'm willing
to let go of my current position to explore this new
opportunity. And my mind has always been on making
(21:08):
sure that I'm building that to the best of my ability.
And I've heard from other founders, and, you know, Jeff kinda validated
it with me as well. But if you do that continuously and own
that, the people will come to you simply saying, well, how can I
help? I believe in this thing. I love what you're doing. I've seen you over
here in this place or that place. My friends talk about you. I've tried the
(21:30):
product, and I think it tastes great. Are you hiring? What do you need? How
can I help? And those are the best kind of relationships
because there are people that, like you said, are, you
know, relationally relation relationally aggressive.
But it's a good kinda hunger where I feel like I'm able to
empower this person with all the technical things, and I don't have to worry
(21:53):
too much about motivating them, teaching them, making
them, you know, look around corners or find the things that really make their job
worthwhile and have the highest impact for the company. All of that stuff kinda
comes naturally, and I'm able to just be more of a, you know,
technical guardrails around processes and just sharing
information and keeping everybody up to speed.
(22:16):
This is Pete Moore. Here's the last tip for you of the podcast.
We are partnered up with a company called Higher Dose, higher dose
dot com. They are the leader in workout
recovery products, infrared technology, LED
light masks, neck enhancers, and other
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(22:39):
If you have not gotten on the workout recovery train
yet, your time and your stop is now. You gotta
get these products in there before these workout recovery and spas end
up saturating your market, having your members walk out of the club and
going into one of their locations for $200 per
month where they're paying 39 to you. Let's become an
(23:01):
expert in workout recovery if we are already an authority in
workouts. Higher dose, check it out, is a
wholesale code, and we look forward to helping
you augment your products and services to meet the demands of
your members. And, hey, let's get people happy, healthy,
and sweating, and the recovery should be just as good as the workout.
(23:27):
You know, when you take a look at any business, whether it's a food or
whether it's a beverage that are going into, you know, small establishments,
and I've I've invested in some companies, I've looked to invest, and there's
always just, like, working capital, you know, wall that you have to climb.
Yeah. You know, given given your background as a
as an entrepreneur, have you found a lot of either, you
(23:49):
know, inventory based lending? Have you found
investors that are saying, hey. I'll help you kinda bridge that
working capital, wall and and that, you know, basically,
that timing of of when you get paid and how much product you have out
there? And and how how do you feel about the current
environment? There's a there's a lot of groups out there that say, hey. We're, you
(24:10):
know, we're here. We're gonna work with, you know, strong, you
know, growth companies in in CPG. And then
when you get down to the terms, it's like, you know, is did is there
a was there is this a typo? You know, either in, like, you
know, the interest rate or, you know, the payback schedule or, you know, if
I take this money, I'm not even sure if my margin, you know, could cover
(24:32):
the the the capital cost. Right. So how have you have you been
able to overcome that? Or, you know, is it do you see any,
other people that understand, like, hey. I might I need to help you bridge this.
And once I get to a certain level, you know, kind of the working capital
engine kinda will feed itself. Yeah. We so we've been
a % bootstrapped to date. We recently closed
(24:54):
on investment from Pharrell Williams and the
owners of the Brooklyn Nets. So, a really kinda
fortunate breakthrough for us there. So we won't be bootstrapped for too much
longer. But to this point, I
haven't been able to actually secure a lot of, I guess, loans, you
could say, or inventory financing purely because we
(25:17):
just haven't made enough revenue. And it's almost been a chicken
or the egg where you say, well, I need money to make more rev make
more inventory so I can sell and make more revenue, and then I'll be at
the benchmark. But you have to find you know, kinda find a way. And,
thankfully, I've leaned on my network for
little bridges here and there, but I've also been lucky
(25:39):
enough to you know, because of our b two b kind of focus, we've been
able to have a bit more, I think, recurring revenue than a
retail business might because I know that every week,
these 24 offices are buying x amount of cases from
me. So that recurring revenue is something that, as an
emerging brand, I definitely kind of encourage some founders to go after and
(26:02):
look at because, like you said, grocery stores really don't
have an incentive to keep you on. It's purely about margins
and relationship, but the office manager that you know,
everybody in BCG or, Conde Nast,
everybody loves Spoonful. She might be a little more reluctant
to totally ax the budget on breakfast
(26:24):
knowing what the employees might say and the way people might ask about it.
So even if it's a right sizing of a budget or a, you know,
slight reduction in that revenue, it's not a total pulling the
rug out from underneath us. So our business model has definitely allowed us to
have a bit more cash flow that kinda steadily comes in,
but we've definitely had to sacrifice on scale to be
(26:46):
bootstrapped and simply just pass up on a lot of opportunities
to get a new doors because of everything you described in terms of
whether it be the payback schedule, the lack of manpower
to think if we go into this account, do we have the boots on the
ground to guarantee that velocity and ensure that sell through? If we
don't, how much is it gonna cost? Can we afford it? And if not, then
(27:09):
it's just gonna have to be a thank you. I really appreciate it.
Not right now, and let's keep the line open. And when we're ready, we would
love to circle back and see what we can do. So I think it's
required a lot of discipline and kind of rigor,
but I think it's put us in a really good place to really just go
after things that we know will work, things that we know will
(27:32):
provide value to our customer, things that are positive for our
margins that aren't too cost intensive, and it allows us
to continue to tell our story and kind of fortify our
position. And those are the kind of filters that we've run through
aside from how many doors can this bring us in or what's the size of
this PO and a lot of other things that maybe top line get founders
(27:54):
super excited. But then six months from then, we kinda look up and
say, shit. Was this was this the rest of the idea? Yeah.
Yeah. Well, Well, congrats on what you built. Sounds like you've done it
very methodically. I love the idea of going into these places
that, you know, you frequent and, that, you know,
wanna feel like they've got some, you know, pseudo exclusivity,
(28:16):
if you will. And when this podcast launches, we'll do a we'll do a big
pitch to, to some of the office, you know, the building
managers and the, and and the companies that you know about this and try and
get you Thank you. Some more distribution. And, you know, before you do
any deals with any health clubs, or cafes, let's, you know,
ping me, please. I'll tell you if that's a good idea or not.
(28:38):
Sometimes they they say that they could provide more volume than they actually can.
We'll we'll we'll sidebar about of our recommendations. I appreciate
it. And we use this term halo, health active lifestyle outdoors. We're trying to solve
loneliness, obesity, and diabetes. And a big big portion of that is,
you know, what you put in your body, you know, what time of day, and
at at what, what portion control. So great to have you on, man.
(29:00):
Glad we met. Dave Ganel, and thanks for making this happen. Thank you.
And, we could definitely we definitely talk for hours, and let's,
let's plan to get together in, in person at some point. We'll we'll have to
sit down in person and and dive into it a bit more, I think. Awesome.
Alright, man. We'll keep doing you good things and, this affects a lot of people
probably more than you know. So congrats on what you built and,
(29:21):
love a good entrepreneurial story where, you know, you kinda kinda
know the road that you have to be on and that you don't deviate from
it. So some of the the best decisions are the ones you don't
jump into. I've done a lot of deals where you take on accounts and you're
like, oh, if I got the Gold's Gym brand, you know, everything's gonna work out
and then you realize, like, it's not profitable and it's efficient license.
(29:43):
And, you know, you stay on the right path and, don't make mistakes,
you're you end up in a good place. So congrats, man. Good stuff. Glad to
meet you. I appreciate it. Likewise. Hopefully, I'll see you guys soon. You
got it. Alright, bud. Thank you. Spoonful.life.
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