Kyria Sabin began her journey with Pilates in 1991 while living in Los Angeles and working as an art gallery director. Teaching Pilates was never part of her original path. However, her lifelong interest in fitness led her to eventually catch the bug for Pilates. After attending a workshop with renowned Pilates "Elder" Ron Fletcher, he encouraged her to teach the method, though she initially resisted. Despite her intentions to head to law school, Kyria’s passion for Pilates ultimately changed her trajectory, shaping her future as a leading educator in the field.
Pete and Kyria continue on to discuss the origins of Fletcher Pilates, the evolution of teacher training, and what sets Pilates apart as a transformative practice with remarkable return on time invested. She opens up about the rigors of Pilates instructor certification, the expansion of Fletcher Pilates’ international licensing program, and how the method’s focus on quality movement has led to life-changing results for clients of all ages.
On international expansion Sabin states, "After we developed the program, we had people coming in from Asia, Europe, South America . . . all wanting to study his [Ron's] lineage of the work. We quickly realized is that we could reach many more people if we sent teachers to those countries."
Key themes discussed
- Growth and evolution of Pilates as a fitness modality.
- History and legacy of Fletcher Pilates.
- Intensive process of Pilates instructor certification.
- International expansion through licensing and teacher training.
- Impact of group classes and mass-market Pilates studios.
- Value of in-person Pilates versus online instruction.
- Pilates benefits for diverse age groups and populations.
A few key takeaways:
1. Pilates as a Transformational Practice: Sabin’s experience highlights how Pilates isn’t just about exercise—it's about quality movement, efficiency, and transformative change in both mind and body. She shares her experiences being a client to realizing the profound physical benefits, describing it as a return on time investment with fantastic results.
2. Rigorous Teacher Training and Legacy: Unlike quick certifications in other fitness fields, becoming a Fletcher Pilates instructor is a comprehensive process that can take up to two years. Sabin emphasizes that students must first experience the work deeply themselves before teaching, underscoring the importance of depth and mastery in the method.
3. Pilates’ Global Reach: The growth of Fletcher Pilates worldwide happened both organically and intentionally. Demand from students in Asia, Europe, and South America led to a licensing model, making it possible for people to access quality teaching without always having to travel extensively. This preserves the lineage while also expanding its reach.
4. Pilates for All Ages and Backgrounds: Kyria advocates for Pilates as a lifelong practice accessible to everyone from young people to seniors. She's seen significant improvements in posture, strength, and balance at all ages, and challenges the notion that older adults are limited to just "maintenance."
5. Personal Touch Still Matters: With the continued emergence of online and at-home Pilates offerings, Kyria remains firm on the value of in-person training, especially at the start of someone’s practice. She believes the energy, supervision, and personal connection play a significant role in a student’s success and safety, calling remote work more supplemental than foundational.
Resources:
- Kyria Sabin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kyria-sabin-3b92b97
- Fletcher Pilates: https://www.fletcherpilates.com
- Prospect Wizard: https://www.theprospectwizard.com
- Promotion Vault: http://www.promotionvault.com
- HigherDose: http://www.higherdose.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
I am super excited to announce that we now have a formal
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(00:22):
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(00:44):
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wizard. Go get them.
This is Pete Moore on Halo Talks NYC. I have the pleasure of
(01:07):
bringing one of the most esteemed platforms in the
Pilates space coming out of Tucson, Arizona, Fletcher
Pilates. Kyrgios Sabin, who we met one time at a
studio event with BFS, is joining us today. We're going to talk
about the growth of Pilates. We're going to talk about her international
licensing program. And we're going to talk about how awesome it is
(01:29):
for Pilates as a return on time investment. I'd
say it's the, most prolific to see changes
in the mirror and to feel the changes in your body in the
shortest amount of time. So, Curia, welcome to our show. Thank
you, Pete. Happy to be here. So, so this started with,
with Ron Fletcher back in '93. Do you wanna
(01:52):
just give everyone a little bit of the history of the
Pilates and how this kind of has become your lifelong
career and vision for the future? Sure. I
started studying with Ron Fletcher in 1991 and,
had no intention of teaching Pilates. I was working in the art world and
planning to go to law school and focus on art law. So I was on
(02:14):
a completely different track and, always into fitness
and movement and, went to Braun's studio in
Los Angeles when I lived there. I was, directing an art gallery
and caught the bug and fell in love with the work and
and went to a workshop with Ron. And he said, you should teach
this work. And I said, I'm not gonna teach this work. I'm I'm headed to
(02:37):
law school. And and and at that point, no one knew what Pilates was. In
fact, it wasn't even called Pilates. It was called body contrology.
And, but he planted the seed, and,
I called him up a few days later, and I said, if I were to
teach this work, how would I go about it? Because no no schools existed at
the time. And, so he basically
(03:00):
gave me this he pieced together an education going to
London and New York and Houston and Los Angeles and,
studying with different people and learning very specific things. And so
that was my introduction, and I had Ron Fletcher,
as my teacher and mentor. And, he studied with Jessup
Pilates, for two decades from 1948 to
(03:23):
'67 when Joe passed away. And, I now
have the privilege of of running his lineage and running his school.
And you started out as a a Duke grad I did. Then
became a, a certified massage therapist. So,
as you were going through these machinations in in your mind about, you
know, where where is this going, and and a lot
(03:46):
of people thought, you know, Pilates, they didn't really understand what that was.
You know, what what kind of put you over the edge? Was, one, was it
kind of the ability to be taught, you know,
under that type of, you know, master trainer that excited you?
Was it did you do a couple classes and say, you know, this is something
I've never experienced? What what was the what was the linchpin, if you
(04:09):
will, for Yeah. Well, I was I was a client for almost a year and
Gotcha. Noticed huge changes in my body. I was used to doing extreme
everything. And, you know, whether it was running or swimming or
or playing tennis, everything I did was, as
as much as hard as I could get. And Okay.
And, when I studied with Ron, I realized that it was, you know, it's really
(04:31):
the first introduction to,
as an adult, to high quality movement and quality over
quantity and, realized that the the results were much
better. It's, you know, definitely more efficient in terms of
time. So I had a call from, received a call
from Karma Kienstler, who was one of the founding members of Kang and Ranch.
(04:54):
And she was just starting a Pilates program in Tucson at the time.
And I was planning my exodus from Los Angeles and wanting to go
back to New York and and go to law school and get back into New
York is my favorite place on Earth. And, and she
said, would you come to Tucson for a couple of months and help me
develop this Pilates program? And and I thought that's, you know,
(05:16):
that's a great stepping stone to getting out of Los Angeles to sort
of going into the next chapter, but I never intended
to devote my life to this work. And I think that the real,
for me, it was starting to teach. It was working with, one
person at a time and realizing the impact that I could
have. And and I was really the only person teaching
(05:38):
Pilates outside of Canyon Ranch in Arizona.
Gotcha. And then, you know, as you've looked at some of these
opportunities, we talked just before we got on here that you're, you know,
Fletcher Pilates exists now in, Korea, in different
parts of The US, under a licensing program. Was that
something that you, proactively did, or was it
(06:01):
more of a response to, you know, people that have experiences
with you to say, you know, we need this here. How can you make that
happen? It it was both organic and proactive.
I when I first opened a studio,
I was just trying to find Pilates teachers,
to to fill the need. And I realized that I really wanted
(06:24):
to develop high level teachers, and, so we
started a school. And, that was with Ron's
Wessing, but it wasn't really his, his lineage of the
work. And over several years, he
felt that the Pilates teachers should learn should learn through apprenticeship. So you
should basically live under the wing of someone.
(06:46):
And when they deem you fit to teach, they they sort of put
you out on the floor and, convinced him that that wasn't the
way of the world today. And, his work would basically,
go away when he died. And so he agreed
to, look at a program that that I and and several of
his teachers put together, and he was very much involved in the
(07:09):
development of the program. And after we developed the program, we had people coming in
from Asia, from Europe, from South America wanting to study
his lineage of the work. And and and what we realized is that we
could reach many more people if we sent teachers to those
countries. And it's cost prohibitive and, you know,
really difficult for for a lot of people to leave for for any length
(07:32):
of time to to study this work. So that's
it is it was, intentional, but it
wasn't I didn't decide, you know, I want this work to be in Brazil,
or I want this work to be in Canada or wherever it is in the
world. It was, very much the interest came, and then we
worked with the teachers over a course period of time. And then,
(07:54):
eventually, you know, gave them the right to to license the the the
program. You know, you look at Pilates versus,
I can become a personal trainer probably over a weekend. I can
learn TRX and get a certification, you know, over a couple days as well.
Can you just talk about and maybe, reiterate what it takes if
somebody becomes a Pilates instructor, especially a Fletcher
(08:17):
Pilates instructor, how much time and intensity has gone into
that? Sure. Well, it's we we first
want our students to have experienced the work. It
was it was really amusing to me because when I first opened the school,
Pilates was sort of a new thing. And it was,
you know, as it is now, it was sort of, considered trendy.
(08:40):
And people would call up, and they'd say, I wanna be a Pilates teacher.
And they'd often sometimes say, I wanna be a Pilates teacher and,
or some version of that. And I'd say, well, have you, you know, have you
experienced the work first? And oftentimes, they hadn't. They wanted to
go from, you know, just off the street to becoming a
teacher. And so we insist that anyone
(09:02):
who wants to go through our program, experience the work for at least
a a year on a consistent basis so they get the the work in their
bodies. And, the first step to going through our program is
is the mat work program. So, they complete the mat
work program, which allows them to teach mat work in gyms and,
studios and parks. And, the thing I love about that is
(09:26):
that they start teaching before they may they commit to going through the the comprehensive
program. And then the comprehensive program takes about a year
to go through. So all told, it's it's probably a year and a half, and
then we have advanced continuing education, which is another year.
So to be a full fledged Fletcher teacher is is
about two years. Gotcha. And how how many Fletcher certified
(09:49):
instructors are there worldwide right now? Well, different
levels of of teachers. I would say they're they're probably between five
hundred and seven fifty between the mat work teachers and and
the the, licensed providers and and the fully
certified teachers.
This is Pete Moore. I wanna let you in on a little secret. There's this
(10:12):
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(10:34):
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(10:56):
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You know, as you've seen, I just read something today that,
ClassPass, announced their top twenty twenty
(11:19):
four workouts, and Pilates is number one,
on the trends and, and usage and and demand.
When you look at some of these groups like Club Pilates,
you know, Solid Core, SLT, how does that make
you feel about, you know, the exclusivity of
(11:40):
Pilates versus now the mass market appeal?
One is like, hey. Like, this this is as big as I as I
wanted it to be or it's getting there. At the same time, you know,
maybe there's some things that you like. And there might be some
shortcuts here or things that are not, you know, how Joseph
Pilate or Ron Fletcher, you know, the efficacy of it
(12:03):
maybe is is, you know, maybe, like, you know,
not as as as as the
technique is not what it exactly should be, but is that okay? Is it
not okay? You know, give me somebody who's been around the industry, sometimes you're like,
I like how the industry's evolved, the price point. There's no $9
Pilates, thankfully. Right? No one's commoditized it. At the same
(12:25):
time, now it's like mass market. It might be you're not using the
term properly or you're where where are you at in
that kind of yin yang of No. Well, at first, when
when Club Pilates started, I, you know, I
I I have to admit I took issue with it, you know, bringing
12 bodies into a room without a lot of preparation and getting them,
(12:47):
through, a workout primarily on one
piece of equipment. But but I think there are some
very good club Pilates teachers. And in fact, some
of our teachers, who've got been through our program are teaching for club
Pilates. And so I think that as businesses
like that have developed, they've they've,
(13:12):
refined, their their, methodology. They're
they've refined their programs of teaching. And
the first, you know, the first rule for any business dealing with human
bodies is do no harm. And so, you know, my concern was first,
are we gonna see a lot of entries coming out of these group reformer
(13:32):
classes, and is that gonna give Pilates a bad
name? That is happening to some extent, but it's not as
as, widespread as I thought it would be.
So I I do think that people who,
want to learn Pilates at, say, a
deeper, more comprehensive level, whether it's a teacher or a
(13:54):
client, oftentimes, the the Club Pilates
entree is is a good stepping stone to that. So,
we've had several of our clients come to us and say, you know,
I've I've been going to club Pilates or I've been going to this other group
or former class for, a year or whatever.
And, and I wanna take it to the next level. And so,
(14:17):
I think there are as with anything, I think it's you know,
there are pluses and minuses. Mhmm. Bill, we, we we
teach a a business school class. We started doing that during COVID.
And I I I prefer and I I want people to learn,
during a live format. I I don't necessarily wanna tape it and then let them,
you know, consume it because I don't know if they're gonna fully appreciate
(14:40):
what, you know, I'm trying to educate them
on. As you see the proliferation of, you know, now
there's Pilates, you know, reformers that are going to the home
and there's, you know, a video screen and you're doing, you know, tape
classes. You know, obviously, you got the injury component
to it and and the fact that people might not be, you know, doing the
(15:02):
exercises the way, you know, they would be if they were, you
know, had a a private or semi private. Are you sometimes
concerned about that? Or, you know, as long as Pilates is getting
out there, that they'll they'll they'll find their path. And would you is
that something you would wanna play in? Or do you say, look. I'm I'm I've
got a fine line of how I wanna do things? Well, I think that
(15:24):
COVID, you know, gave us the ability to teach,
from a distance and teach online, and there are definitely benefits
to it. I won't work with anyone who I haven't worked with in person
first. So, once we establish a program
and if they have a home studio or they're on vacation at their second home
or or wherever in the world, I'll work with them. But it's I I
(15:46):
consider it supplemental. Mhmm. So to start with someone
online, I think, is, it's difficult. It's it's, not
only in terms of really understanding their body from a
360 degree view, but it's also
I I think you you lose the energy. So I it's it's really become a
luxury to work with people in person, both for the teacher
(16:08):
and and for the the client or the student. And,
ultimately and I have one client who, he always
wants to give sort of a a numerical
percentage to the benefits that he, receives from
each experience. He says, I get about 75% when I work with you online,
and I get about 90 plus percent when I work with you in person.
(16:30):
And So I think there's there is a big difference.
Yeah. From a standpoint of, you know, whether it's
ClassPass, GymPass, and our wellness hub,
some called, you know, eChimp has some called Wellpass.
People are bouncing around to a lot of different studios and modalities.
(16:50):
If you were to if I was to put you on the spot, let's say,
like, now, if I said to you, you know, do
Pilates and do what other exercise or
group exercise program per week, because
you're not necessarily gonna do Pilates seven days a week. What what would be
your go to either on flexibility or core
(17:11):
that I should, you know, do a regimen of Pilates and what?
Yeah. Yeah. I used to say Pilates and cardio. So I used to say because
Pilates you know, even when you're an advanced mover, you do get your heart
moving. But a combination of Pilates and cardio,
and cardio is, obviously super important for the heart, for the
circulation, and for the brain. And, and, you
(17:34):
know, as in the past however many years, it's we all
now know that that, strength training is
is, super important, especially,
for women who could, you know, be struggling with osteopenia, osteoporosis.
So it's, I try to include as much strength work in
the Pilates programs that I teach. And, but
(17:57):
there it isn't enough. And there needs to be the progressive
overload, and and I so it needs to
ideally, an ideal would be cardio five days a
week, Pilates two to three days a week, and strength training two to
three days a week. Got it. And then And the Pilates covers the the, you
know, covers the flexibility and the balanced work. Yeah. I've done
(18:19):
several Pilates classes, and, it's usually not the next day
that I that I feel the muscles that have been used. It's usually the second
day that I feel like I can't move as much, which is
amazing, you know, after I get through that and and turn into a practice. You
know, with the with the onset of all of the workout recovery,
you know, technologies that are out there, we're involved with a company called,
(18:41):
HigherDose, which has infrared saunas and and electromagnetic
fields. Are there certain things that you've prescribed to your clients or that you
use that, you know, feels like you get the best recovery or
the best inflammation reduction or, you know, is a
great Yeah. I I I'm very, you know, cognizant of
scope and practice. And so I I share things
(19:04):
without, you know, using the word prescribe or or strongly
suggest. I really love, infrared saunas. I think that
they, it's just, I've experienced
infrared saunas on a regular basis. And I I think way more than the cold
therapy, it has, a profound effect on my body.
So that that would be and and, you know, in terms of modalities,
(19:26):
acupuncture to me is if you can find a really good acupuncturist,
it's it's holistic much like Pilates is. And so,
and massage therapy, deep, deep, deep tissue massage therapy.
Mhmm. And then from a standpoint of you you kinda
touched on this before, but if if you're in a class and
(19:46):
it's a a semi private or or a group format, what do you
think the right mix is, you know, participants
or, instructors to members where you feel
like people are getting the right oversight? So the way my studio works is
we everyone starts with, private sessions, and
we make them as affordable as we can. Three private
(20:09):
sessions, and then we they can segue into semi private sessions,
and, we work with four people at a time, so what we call a quartet.
And, sort sort of a play on words, c o r e t e
t. And then, our group classes are
no more than, say, 15 people. So we don't we don't ever
work with, huge groups. I I work with a larger group at the
(20:33):
university I teach, the dancers at the University of
Arizona and, am instructing them to become,
mat work teachers. And so that is a larger group. And when I go to
conferences, I work with larger groups, but those are mainly teachers.
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(20:55):
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(22:02):
And, the last question I have here is, are
there certain age groups that you've been,
pleasantly surprised that have embraced Pilates? I feel like,
you know, with my mom's age group, you know, that just resonates
with them. They're not really as intimidated by,
(22:22):
you know, a reformer or or a Cadillac or any kind of, you know,
machine that maybe have a lot you know, it looks like there's a lot of
apparatus that, you know, could be viewed as, you know, like going
into a, you know, an evil amusement park, if you will. Yeah.
So, are there you know, there's obviously a lot of kids that that are doing
it now and athletes where, you know, before you'd never think that, like, football
(22:44):
players would be doing, you know, Pilates, but they are. And they're doing
dance classes and they're doing barre classes, you know, because of some of
the movements that you need, to be successful.
So are there any any cohorts or moments that people
that are running a Pilates studio right now that maybe they
should try and find these little pockets of of
(23:06):
demographics that they Yeah. I think that intuitive? Yeah.
The demographic that, you know, tends to, go to a boutique
fitness studio, whether it's Pilates, is, you know, it's it's women in their
fifties and sixties. And, I really enjoy working
with, younger people and older people. So I I work with the,
Boys and Girls Clubs of Southern Arizona, and we're
(23:29):
developing a Pilates program for them. And one of my
passions is teaching, young people about
their bodies and teaching them to respect their bodies and how their
bodies are put together. And, my hope is that it
it just that knowledge would, you know, maybe
prevent, obesity, maybe prevent,
(23:52):
drug abuse, maybe, maybe, you know, just that
understanding of how the body is put together and how to move the
body, could have a positive, ripple effect.
And then I love working with older people. My, my father who's
90, just turned 90, broke his hip. And,
he reached out to me when we were on a family vacation over the
(24:14):
summer, and he wanted me to develop a program for him. And,
and I just you know, it's I what what I love is that
people at any age can change their posture,
can build strength, can improve their balance. And
I think there's this idea that once you get to a certain age, it's just
maintenance, and that's not so. Mhmm. That's not so. It's you know,
(24:36):
people in their eighties and nineties can make huge improvements. So do you have
any quotes for us, Kiria? Any quotes that, would be associated
with you as a as a, you know, Kiria ism?
No. It's it's a quote from my teacher, Ron Fletcher, and it's on the,
inside flap of his book. And it's movement is life and life is
movement, and we get out of it what we put into it. And I I
(24:59):
love that quote. Great. Well, appreciate you making that
decision not to go to law school. I think Chatt GBT might
take over some of the, lawyers in this country by, by just
typing in what kind of letter you need. Mhmm. And, for the for
the work that you've done, we think anything related
to Pilates and getting people together is gonna help solve some of the goals that
(25:21):
that we have is, you know, solving loneliness, diabetes, and
obesity. So look forward to continue to watch your
growth, getting people around the world to, to better
understand and utilize Pilates. And, congrats on
everything you guys have built. Thank you, Pete. Thank you so much.
Great.
I am super excited to announce that we now have a formal
partnership with the prospect wizard. And when I say
wizard, I mean wizard. Obviously, you have a website.
This allows you to convert your website traffic visitors
directly into leads. It's not just another chatbot, and it's
not AI, but it allows a visitor to call, text, or leave a
(00:22):
voice mail. Immediately goes to you, your sales team, or anyone else in the
club instantly. MIT shows a study that if you contact
the lead within ten minutes, chance of them converting goes up nine
times that of the average. We got the Atlanta clubs on
it, Vida Fitness, Gold's Gym, Mountainside,
City Fitness Philly, College Park. Become one
(00:44):
of the next halo companies to deploy the wizard. It's
easy to use. Go to the prospectwizard.com. Get
a free thirty day trial. Talk to my boy, Dave Gallon. He will get you
all set up, and let the leads flow based on the
wizard. Go get them.
This is Pete Moore on Halo Talks NYC. I have the pleasure of
(01:07):
bringing one of the most esteemed platforms in the
Pilates space coming out of Tucson, Arizona, Fletcher
Pilates. Kyrgios Sabin, who we met one time at a
studio event with BFS, is joining us today. We're going to talk
about the growth of Pilates. We're going to talk about her international
licensing program. And we're going to talk about how awesome it is
(01:29):
for Pilates as a return on time investment. I'd
say it's the, most prolific to see changes
in the mirror and to feel the changes in your body in the
shortest amount of time. So, Curia, welcome to our show. Thank
you, Pete. Happy to be here. So, so this started with,
with Ron Fletcher back in '93. Do you wanna
(01:52):
just give everyone a little bit of the history of the
Pilates and how this kind of has become your lifelong
career and vision for the future? Sure. I
started studying with Ron Fletcher in 1991 and,
had no intention of teaching Pilates. I was working in the art world and
planning to go to law school and focus on art law. So I was on
(02:14):
a completely different track and, always into fitness
and movement and, went to Braun's studio in
Los Angeles when I lived there. I was, directing an art gallery
and caught the bug and fell in love with the work and
and went to a workshop with Ron. And he said, you should teach
this work. And I said, I'm not gonna teach this work. I'm I'm headed to
(02:37):
law school. And and and at that point, no one knew what Pilates was. In
fact, it wasn't even called Pilates. It was called body contrology.
And, but he planted the seed, and,
I called him up a few days later, and I said, if I were to
teach this work, how would I go about it? Because no no schools existed at
the time. And, so he basically
(03:00):
gave me this he pieced together an education going to
London and New York and Houston and Los Angeles and,
studying with different people and learning very specific things. And so
that was my introduction, and I had Ron Fletcher,
as my teacher and mentor. And, he studied with Jessup
Pilates, for two decades from 1948 to
(03:23):
'67 when Joe passed away. And, I now
have the privilege of of running his lineage and running his school.
And you started out as a a Duke grad I did. Then
became a, a certified massage therapist. So,
as you were going through these machinations in in your mind about, you
know, where where is this going, and and a lot
(03:46):
of people thought, you know, Pilates, they didn't really understand what that was.
You know, what what kind of put you over the edge? Was, one, was it
kind of the ability to be taught, you know,
under that type of, you know, master trainer that excited you?
Was it did you do a couple classes and say, you know, this is something
I've never experienced? What what was the what was the linchpin, if you
(04:09):
will, for Yeah. Well, I was I was a client for almost a year and
Gotcha. Noticed huge changes in my body. I was used to doing extreme
everything. And, you know, whether it was running or swimming or
or playing tennis, everything I did was, as
as much as hard as I could get. And Okay.
And, when I studied with Ron, I realized that it was, you know, it's really
(04:31):
the first introduction to,
as an adult, to high quality movement and quality over
quantity and, realized that the the results were much
better. It's, you know, definitely more efficient in terms of
time. So I had a call from, received a call
from Karma Kienstler, who was one of the founding members of Kang and Ranch.
(04:54):
And she was just starting a Pilates program in Tucson at the time.
And I was planning my exodus from Los Angeles and wanting to go
back to New York and and go to law school and get back into New
York is my favorite place on Earth. And, and she
said, would you come to Tucson for a couple of months and help me
develop this Pilates program? And and I thought that's, you know,
(05:16):
that's a great stepping stone to getting out of Los Angeles to sort
of going into the next chapter, but I never intended
to devote my life to this work. And I think that the real,
for me, it was starting to teach. It was working with, one
person at a time and realizing the impact that I could
have. And and I was really the only person teaching
(05:38):
Pilates outside of Canyon Ranch in Arizona.
Gotcha. And then, you know, as you've looked at some of these
opportunities, we talked just before we got on here that you're, you know,
Fletcher Pilates exists now in, Korea, in different
parts of The US, under a licensing program. Was that
something that you, proactively did, or was it
(06:01):
more of a response to, you know, people that have experiences
with you to say, you know, we need this here. How can you make that
happen? It it was both organic and proactive.
I when I first opened a studio,
I was just trying to find Pilates teachers,
to to fill the need. And I realized that I really wanted
(06:24):
to develop high level teachers, and, so we
started a school. And, that was with Ron's
Wessing, but it wasn't really his, his lineage of the
work. And over several years, he
felt that the Pilates teachers should learn should learn through apprenticeship. So you
should basically live under the wing of someone.
(06:46):
And when they deem you fit to teach, they they sort of put
you out on the floor and, convinced him that that wasn't the
way of the world today. And, his work would basically,
go away when he died. And so he agreed
to, look at a program that that I and and several of
his teachers put together, and he was very much involved in the
(07:09):
development of the program. And after we developed the program, we had people coming in
from Asia, from Europe, from South America wanting to study
his lineage of the work. And and and what we realized is that we
could reach many more people if we sent teachers to those
countries. And it's cost prohibitive and, you know,
really difficult for for a lot of people to leave for for any length
(07:32):
of time to to study this work. So that's
it is it was, intentional, but it
wasn't I didn't decide, you know, I want this work to be in Brazil,
or I want this work to be in Canada or wherever it is in the
world. It was, very much the interest came, and then we
worked with the teachers over a course period of time. And then,
(07:54):
eventually, you know, gave them the right to to license the the the
program. You know, you look at Pilates versus,
I can become a personal trainer probably over a weekend. I can
learn TRX and get a certification, you know, over a couple days as well.
Can you just talk about and maybe, reiterate what it takes if
somebody becomes a Pilates instructor, especially a Fletcher
(08:17):
Pilates instructor, how much time and intensity has gone into
that? Sure. Well, it's we we first
want our students to have experienced the work. It
was it was really amusing to me because when I first opened the school,
Pilates was sort of a new thing. And it was,
you know, as it is now, it was sort of, considered trendy.
(08:40):
And people would call up, and they'd say, I wanna be a Pilates teacher.
And they'd often sometimes say, I wanna be a Pilates teacher and,
or some version of that. And I'd say, well, have you, you know, have you
experienced the work first? And oftentimes, they hadn't. They wanted to
go from, you know, just off the street to becoming a
teacher. And so we insist that anyone
(09:02):
who wants to go through our program, experience the work for at least
a a year on a consistent basis so they get the the work in their
bodies. And, the first step to going through our program is
is the mat work program. So, they complete the mat
work program, which allows them to teach mat work in gyms and,
studios and parks. And, the thing I love about that is
(09:26):
that they start teaching before they may they commit to going through the the comprehensive
program. And then the comprehensive program takes about a year
to go through. So all told, it's it's probably a year and a half, and
then we have advanced continuing education, which is another year.
So to be a full fledged Fletcher teacher is is
about two years. Gotcha. And how how many Fletcher certified
(09:49):
instructors are there worldwide right now? Well, different
levels of of teachers. I would say they're they're probably between five
hundred and seven fifty between the mat work teachers and and
the the, licensed providers and and the fully
certified teachers.
This is Pete Moore. I wanna let you in on a little secret. There's this
(10:12):
company called Promotion Vault, and what they do is they give out rewards
from retailers that allow you to incentivize your
members without having to do zero down and one month
free or giving away shakes or giving away t shirts.
What you wanna do is build a rewards program that lasts,
that people value, and that doesn't discount your own products and
(10:34):
services. So here's the deal. There's something called rewards vault.
The rewards vault is going to allow a member to set up their own
profile. They are going to answer questions. You are gonna get those
answers. You're gonna be able to target those members, and you're gonna reward
them inside your club, inside your spa, and outside of
the club, and outside of the spa to get them to become loyal,
(10:56):
to get them to pay their monthly dues, and to be
rewarded properly for the actions. A lot of companies are cutting back on
rewards. You shouldn't be. Promotion Vault's your answer. Trust
me. This is real.
You know, as you've seen, I just read something today that,
ClassPass, announced their top twenty twenty
(11:19):
four workouts, and Pilates is number one,
on the trends and, and usage and and demand.
When you look at some of these groups like Club Pilates,
you know, Solid Core, SLT, how does that make
you feel about, you know, the exclusivity of
(11:40):
Pilates versus now the mass market appeal?
One is like, hey. Like, this this is as big as I as I
wanted it to be or it's getting there. At the same time, you know,
maybe there's some things that you like. And there might be some
shortcuts here or things that are not, you know, how Joseph
Pilate or Ron Fletcher, you know, the efficacy of it
(12:03):
maybe is is, you know, maybe, like, you know,
not as as as as the
technique is not what it exactly should be, but is that okay? Is it
not okay? You know, give me somebody who's been around the industry, sometimes you're like,
I like how the industry's evolved, the price point. There's no $9
Pilates, thankfully. Right? No one's commoditized it. At the same
(12:25):
time, now it's like mass market. It might be you're not using the
term properly or you're where where are you at in
that kind of yin yang of No. Well, at first, when
when Club Pilates started, I, you know, I
I I have to admit I took issue with it, you know, bringing
12 bodies into a room without a lot of preparation and getting them,
(12:47):
through, a workout primarily on one
piece of equipment. But but I think there are some
very good club Pilates teachers. And in fact, some
of our teachers, who've got been through our program are teaching for club
Pilates. And so I think that as businesses
like that have developed, they've they've,
(13:12):
refined, their their, methodology. They're
they've refined their programs of teaching. And
the first, you know, the first rule for any business dealing with human
bodies is do no harm. And so, you know, my concern was first,
are we gonna see a lot of entries coming out of these group reformer
(13:32):
classes, and is that gonna give Pilates a bad
name? That is happening to some extent, but it's not as
as, widespread as I thought it would be.
So I I do think that people who,
want to learn Pilates at, say, a
deeper, more comprehensive level, whether it's a teacher or a
(13:54):
client, oftentimes, the the Club Pilates
entree is is a good stepping stone to that. So,
we've had several of our clients come to us and say, you know,
I've I've been going to club Pilates or I've been going to this other group
or former class for, a year or whatever.
And, and I wanna take it to the next level. And so,
(14:17):
I think there are as with anything, I think it's you know,
there are pluses and minuses. Mhmm. Bill, we, we we
teach a a business school class. We started doing that during COVID.
And I I I prefer and I I want people to learn,
during a live format. I I don't necessarily wanna tape it and then let them,
you know, consume it because I don't know if they're gonna fully appreciate
(14:40):
what, you know, I'm trying to educate them
on. As you see the proliferation of, you know, now
there's Pilates, you know, reformers that are going to the home
and there's, you know, a video screen and you're doing, you know, tape
classes. You know, obviously, you got the injury component
to it and and the fact that people might not be, you know, doing the
(15:02):
exercises the way, you know, they would be if they were, you
know, had a a private or semi private. Are you sometimes
concerned about that? Or, you know, as long as Pilates is getting
out there, that they'll they'll they'll find their path. And would you is
that something you would wanna play in? Or do you say, look. I'm I'm I've
got a fine line of how I wanna do things? Well, I think that
(15:24):
COVID, you know, gave us the ability to teach,
from a distance and teach online, and there are definitely benefits
to it. I won't work with anyone who I haven't worked with in person
first. So, once we establish a program
and if they have a home studio or they're on vacation at their second home
or or wherever in the world, I'll work with them. But it's I I
(15:46):
consider it supplemental. Mhmm. So to start with someone
online, I think, is, it's difficult. It's it's, not
only in terms of really understanding their body from a
360 degree view, but it's also
I I think you you lose the energy. So I it's it's really become a
luxury to work with people in person, both for the teacher
(16:08):
and and for the the client or the student. And,
ultimately and I have one client who, he always
wants to give sort of a a numerical
percentage to the benefits that he, receives from
each experience. He says, I get about 75% when I work with you online,
and I get about 90 plus percent when I work with you in person.
(16:30):
And So I think there's there is a big difference.
Yeah. From a standpoint of, you know, whether it's
ClassPass, GymPass, and our wellness hub,
some called, you know, eChimp has some called Wellpass.
People are bouncing around to a lot of different studios and modalities.
(16:50):
If you were to if I was to put you on the spot, let's say,
like, now, if I said to you, you know, do
Pilates and do what other exercise or
group exercise program per week, because
you're not necessarily gonna do Pilates seven days a week. What what would be
your go to either on flexibility or core
(17:11):
that I should, you know, do a regimen of Pilates and what?
Yeah. Yeah. I used to say Pilates and cardio. So I used to say because
Pilates you know, even when you're an advanced mover, you do get your heart
moving. But a combination of Pilates and cardio,
and cardio is, obviously super important for the heart, for the
circulation, and for the brain. And, and, you
(17:34):
know, as in the past however many years, it's we all
now know that that, strength training is
is, super important, especially,
for women who could, you know, be struggling with osteopenia, osteoporosis.
So it's, I try to include as much strength work in
the Pilates programs that I teach. And, but
(17:57):
there it isn't enough. And there needs to be the progressive
overload, and and I so it needs to
ideally, an ideal would be cardio five days a
week, Pilates two to three days a week, and strength training two to
three days a week. Got it. And then And the Pilates covers the the, you
know, covers the flexibility and the balanced work. Yeah. I've done
(18:19):
several Pilates classes, and, it's usually not the next day
that I that I feel the muscles that have been used. It's usually the second
day that I feel like I can't move as much, which is
amazing, you know, after I get through that and and turn into a practice. You
know, with the with the onset of all of the workout recovery,
you know, technologies that are out there, we're involved with a company called,
(18:41):
HigherDose, which has infrared saunas and and electromagnetic
fields. Are there certain things that you've prescribed to your clients or that you
use that, you know, feels like you get the best recovery or
the best inflammation reduction or, you know, is a
great Yeah. I I I'm very, you know, cognizant of
scope and practice. And so I I share things
(19:04):
without, you know, using the word prescribe or or strongly
suggest. I really love, infrared saunas. I think that
they, it's just, I've experienced
infrared saunas on a regular basis. And I I think way more than the cold
therapy, it has, a profound effect on my body.
So that that would be and and, you know, in terms of modalities,
(19:26):
acupuncture to me is if you can find a really good acupuncturist,
it's it's holistic much like Pilates is. And so,
and massage therapy, deep, deep, deep tissue massage therapy.
Mhmm. And then from a standpoint of you you kinda
touched on this before, but if if you're in a class and
(19:46):
it's a a semi private or or a group format, what do you
think the right mix is, you know, participants
or, instructors to members where you feel
like people are getting the right oversight? So the way my studio works is
we everyone starts with, private sessions, and
we make them as affordable as we can. Three private
(20:09):
sessions, and then we they can segue into semi private sessions,
and, we work with four people at a time, so what we call a quartet.
And, sort sort of a play on words, c o r e t e
t. And then, our group classes are
no more than, say, 15 people. So we don't we don't ever
work with, huge groups. I I work with a larger group at the
(20:33):
university I teach, the dancers at the University of
Arizona and, am instructing them to become,
mat work teachers. And so that is a larger group. And when I go to
conferences, I work with larger groups, but those are mainly teachers.
This is Pete Moore. Here's the last tip for you of the podcast.
(20:55):
We are partnered up with a company called Higher Dose, higher dose
dot com. They are the leader in workout
recovery products, infrared technology, LED
light masks, neck enhancers, and other
products such as PMF mats and sauna blankets.
If you have not gotten on the workout recovery train
(21:17):
yet, your time and your stop is now. You
gotta get these products in there before these workout recovery and spas
end up saturating your market, having your members walk out of the club
and going into one of their locations for $200 per
month where they're paying 39 to you. Let's become an
expert in workout recovery if we are already the authority in
(21:39):
workouts. Higher dose, check it out. There's a
wholesale code, and we look forward to helping
you all bet your products and services to meet the demands of your
members. And, hey, let's get people happy, healthy,
and sweaty, and the recovery should be just as good as the workout.
(22:02):
And, the last question I have here is, are
there certain age groups that you've been,
pleasantly surprised that have embraced Pilates? I feel like,
you know, with my mom's age group, you know, that just resonates
with them. They're not really as intimidated by,
(22:22):
you know, a reformer or or a Cadillac or any kind of, you know,
machine that maybe have a lot you know, it looks like there's a lot of
apparatus that, you know, could be viewed as, you know, like going
into a, you know, an evil amusement park, if you will. Yeah.
So, are there you know, there's obviously a lot of kids that that are doing
it now and athletes where, you know, before you'd never think that, like, football
(22:44):
players would be doing, you know, Pilates, but they are. And they're doing
dance classes and they're doing barre classes, you know, because of some of
the movements that you need, to be successful.
So are there any any cohorts or moments that people
that are running a Pilates studio right now that maybe they
should try and find these little pockets of of
(23:06):
demographics that they Yeah. I think that intuitive? Yeah.
The demographic that, you know, tends to, go to a boutique
fitness studio, whether it's Pilates, is, you know, it's it's women in their
fifties and sixties. And, I really enjoy working
with, younger people and older people. So I I work with the,
Boys and Girls Clubs of Southern Arizona, and we're
(23:29):
developing a Pilates program for them. And one of my
passions is teaching, young people about
their bodies and teaching them to respect their bodies and how their
bodies are put together. And, my hope is that it
it just that knowledge would, you know, maybe
prevent, obesity, maybe prevent,
(23:52):
drug abuse, maybe, maybe, you know, just that
understanding of how the body is put together and how to move the
body, could have a positive, ripple effect.
And then I love working with older people. My, my father who's
90, just turned 90, broke his hip. And,
he reached out to me when we were on a family vacation over the
(24:14):
summer, and he wanted me to develop a program for him. And,
and I just you know, it's I what what I love is that
people at any age can change their posture,
can build strength, can improve their balance. And
I think there's this idea that once you get to a certain age, it's just
maintenance, and that's not so. Mhmm. That's not so. It's you know,
(24:36):
people in their eighties and nineties can make huge improvements. So do you have
any quotes for us, Kiria? Any quotes that, would be associated
with you as a as a, you know, Kiria ism?
No. It's it's a quote from my teacher, Ron Fletcher, and it's on the,
inside flap of his book. And it's movement is life and life is
movement, and we get out of it what we put into it. And I I
(24:59):
love that quote. Great. Well, appreciate you making that
decision not to go to law school. I think Chatt GBT might
take over some of the, lawyers in this country by, by just
typing in what kind of letter you need. Mhmm. And, for the for
the work that you've done, we think anything related
to Pilates and getting people together is gonna help solve some of the goals that
(25:21):
that we have is, you know, solving loneliness, diabetes, and
obesity. So look forward to continue to watch your
growth, getting people around the world to, to better
understand and utilize Pilates. And, congrats on
everything you guys have built. Thank you, Pete. Thank you so much.
Great.
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