Episode Transcript
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Ron Kastner (00:01):
Just the feeling of
being alive is just so visceral
and so joyous.
And it doesn't need to be abeautiful sunny day, it doesn't
need to, it's just, ah, here Iam, my breath, my heart's
beating.
The wonder that is our bodiesis just almost like a ceaseless
(00:25):
source of amazement, for me.
Peter Bowes (00:27):
In his mid-fifties,
Ron Kastner became the father
of two daughters, a dad for thefirst time during a decade when
most people are beginning tocontemplate retirement.
But for Ron, in many ways, lifewas just beginning.
Hello again, welcome to theLive Long and Master Aging
podcast.
I'm Peter Bowes.
This is where we explore thescience and stories behind human
(00:50):
longevity.
Ron, it's good to talk to you,so I can hear the sirens of
London town in the backgroundalready.
Ron Kastner (00:57):
I'm sorry about
that.
That's all right.
Peter Bowes (01:02):
That's where I am.
Ron Kastner (01:03):
I split my time
between New York and London and
this is the end of the time thatI'm in London, sort of the
winter, and I spend most of thesummers in New York and Long
Island
Peter Bowes (01:15):
Well look, Ron,
really good to talk to you.
The book is fascinating.
It's a life yet to live, livinghealth, vitality and joy after
60.
You wrote this book because youhad something of an epiphany,
didn't you?
Maybe it's fair to say, in yourlate 50s, after the birth of
your daughters.
Ron Kastner (01:33):
Yeah, in my late
50s I was going through a
troubling time that the companyI started 20 years before was in
trouble because of thefinancial crisis, and I was on
my way to a business meeting ona train and a whole bunch of
serendipitous things happened.
(01:53):
And I just said to myself whoa,actually, what happened was the
universe grabbed me by thelapels and gave me a big shake
and said hey, buddy, you'realmost 60 years old, you've got
two little girls.
They were six months and threeand a half years old at the time
and they needed dad to behealthy and functional for quite
(02:18):
a ways, quite a long time toget to come.
And it was a very personalthunderclap because I lost my
own father when I was seven andgrew up without a dad in my life
, and it's a very, I like to sayit was a hole that was left in
(02:40):
my life and I resolved there andthen to do whatever I could to
be a vital, functioning, healthydad into what I knew would be
my 70s or 80s.
And here I am I'm just 74 onFriday and celebrated all
(03:01):
weekend with my daughters, whoare 16 and 19 now.
Peter Bowes (03:06):
So it's been a Well
, congratulations, and how time
flies.
Yeah, it's really interestingto hear your story, and we're
going to delve into it in somedetail.
Just before we do that, though,let's just talk a little bit
about you and your life beforeyour daughters and your career.
And your career has beeninteresting to the say the least
.
It's been a very, veryfascinating you could almost say
(03:28):
eclectic career.
Ron Kastner (03:29):
Hi, I was a
woodstock hippie.
I screwed around a lot in my20s.
I didn't know what I was goingto do.
I found myself in the printingindustry, turns out I liked it.
I was a very good salesman.
I found this niche littleindustry called financial
(03:53):
printing, which printed for WallStreet and the city of London,
and it was very, very highpressure and it was also very,
very high paying.
I eventually I was verysuccessful at it.
I eventually started my owncompany.
I had more money than a bluecollar kid from Newark, new
(04:14):
Jersey, would ever know what todo with.
So one of the things I did withit was I became a theater
producer as well, and I used to.
I was a typical New York posterchild.
I spent most of the day on theeast side of town doing my
business and most of the nighton the west side of town in the
(04:35):
theater world, and I won a bunchof awards for being a theater
producer as well and all that.
I mean I was looking for afamily along the way Just never
happened, but it did happen inmy 50s.
So that's how I ended up havingkids late.
I always thought I was going tohave plenty of time and thanks
(05:00):
to all the health stuff that Ibegan doing in the late 50s, I
think in my late 50s I think Iwill have plenty of time my
whole attitude has changedtowards living long and being
healthy and increasing my healthspan and all that other stuff.
Peter Bowes (05:19):
It feels great.
So let's start with what youdid.
First.
You had your daughters.
You had this realization thatyou had to change.
You had to change your attitude, I guess, towards your
longevity and change yourlifestyle as well.
Where did you start?
Ron Kastner (05:39):
I had been doing
some exercise and some yoga up
until then, but the real firstdeep dive was a detox.
There's a book it doesn't haveto be this book, it can be any
book but there's a book calledClean by Alejandro Younger, and
it's basically a three-weekelimination dive and it taught
(06:03):
me so much about you know, I hadto get rid of caffeine, alcohol
, sugar, anything with gluten,most processed carbs.
So you're basically on a paleoyou know some kind of version of
paleo diet, and there was alsointermittent fasting involved
(06:25):
called the hour today and a lotof smoothies and just that and
the other thing.
But the point of it is torestore your immune system,
which took three weeks and Ihave to say after those three
weeks I lost 15 pounds.
I felt I had more energy than Ihad ever.
You know, I mean ever.
(06:47):
I was just feeling likecompletely lit up all the time
and I said, if my diet can makethat big of a change, there's
got to be a lot more that I canlearn about this stuff.
And that whole journey ended upgoing into the gym and movement
(07:08):
and evolution and stoppingdrinking and all kinds of other
things, all of which is in thebook.
Peter Bowes (07:17):
So lots of
interesting issues there to dive
into, especially stoppingdrinking.
But let me ask you a moregeneral question first of all,
because I think what you didinitially you tackled what I
actually see as some of the mostsimple things you can do in
terms of lifestyle, that is,diet and exercise.
There are lots of differentlongevity interventions these
days that we can apply toourselves, and some are quite
(07:38):
expensive.
Some are out of the reach ofmany of us, but changing your
diet and your exercise regimeare amongst the most simple to
achieve, perhaps arguably withthe best results.
Ron Kastner (07:51):
It's 90% of the
journey.
I think I have trust me.
Over the past 15 or 16 years, Ihave experimented with just
about everything, and it's allthe stuff that's out there in
terms of hacks and this product,that product.
There's no one product or oneexercise or one, this or one
(08:16):
that is going to fix your life.
It's the same stuff that ourbodies evolved on.
It's healthy food, natural foodand a lot of motion, a lot of
movement.
Our ancestors, our cavemen,their ancestors moved 10 to 15
miles a day and you can imagineall the movements that they did,
(08:38):
from all the hunting thingsthey threw, they pulled, they
climbed, they ran, all the stuffthat we watch in sports now.
And those were the movementsthat our bodies grew up on.
And in modern life, especiallythe past 100 years or so, in the
(09:00):
quote age of comfort, we don'tdo any of that anymore.
We just don't do any of thatanymore.
And it's so tempting I see mydaughters, I see their friends
it's so tempting to just plopdown on the sofa, eat crap and
watch television.
It's just, it's what theconsumer world wants us to do.
Peter Bowes (09:24):
It brings a whole
different meaning to the phrase
modern living, doesn't it oh?
Ron Kastner (09:28):
yeah.
Peter Bowes (09:29):
Modern living in so
many ways, it isn't the best
way to live.
Ron Kastner (09:33):
Look up until a
certain point.
If people are starving, it'sfine, eating their means and
their food intake and everythingelse.
But past that, once you getinto all this comfort and
everything else, I just don'tsee the point.
(09:55):
I just don't see the point.
I do it too, and I did it too,but it doesn't have any returns
from the health stamp.
As a matter of fact, there's alot of negative stuff that comes
with it.
Peter Bowes (10:10):
Let me dive into
your exercise regime now.
Almost in your well, you are inyour mid-70s now.
How do you divide your timebetween resistance training and,
let's say, aerobic training,where you might be walking or
hiking or running, as opposed tolifting weights in a gym?
What is the balance for you?
Ron Kastner (10:31):
I try to do four or
so zone two aerobic things a
week.
Sometimes that's including ahigh-intensity session and
sometimes there's ahigh-intensity session in
addition to that.
Can you just explain what youmean by zone two?
Zone two means like 60% of yourmaximum heart rate and it's
(10:57):
comfortable.
Elevated heart rate, you know,a good guide is your heart rate
is 180 minus your age, somewherein that somewhere.
So for me that's about 110, alittle bit less than 110,
although my maximum heart rateis a little bit higher.
So it's more like 110 to 115.
(11:19):
And it's comfortable.
You know, I wrote an articlefrom my website, which is
RonCastercom I'll give myselfalittle plug which just says
hanging out in zone two, youknow you do it for 40 minutes or
50 minutes or an hour.
It's nothing taxing.
Sometimes I listen to music,sometimes I just think,
(11:43):
sometimes I partially meditateand many times I go for walks,
things like that.
And then the strength stuff isreally important, especially
legs, because there's all kindsof balance issues and all kinds
of strength issues as you getolder, muscle loss and all kinds
(12:07):
of other things that.
So I try to do two or three.
Sometimes it's tacked on to anaerobic session and sometimes
it's on its own.
And then I supplement it allwith yoga, which I do in the
morning.
So when I get up, it's a lot,it's a lot.
Most people go, oh, I couldn'tdo that much.
(12:29):
But I find, trust me, I trydoing less.
I just don't.
I can feel the strength and theenergy going away when I do
less.
Peter Bowes (12:43):
So, and do you
enjoy it while you're doing it?
Ron Kastner (12:48):
I enjoy the results
Sometimes.
I enjoy doing it, but Idefinitely enjoy the results I
hit.
You know, we are a species thatis unique in the planet in that
we can see the results of ouractions.
Yeah, no other animal speciescan do that.
(13:09):
We can also predict that if wedon't do something, you know
something, some benefits or someother things may not happen.
So there's a whole interplay ofthings there of expectation and
rewards and all kinds of otherthings.
(13:31):
I mean, I feel great when Icome out of the gym.
I feel great.
I feel, you know, I'm just one.
You know I just want to say,okay, job well done.
And that I had a little gamethat I played with myself when I
first started, saying for everyhour I spend in the gym, I get
(13:52):
to live an extra day.
I don't know if it's true ornot, but it certainly motivated
me.
I said I'll take that.
I'll take that, you know thatrisk.
Peter Bowes (14:06):
And you're doing
this not just for yourself, and
clearly a big part of yourmotivation was the birth of your
daughters.
Your daughters are much oldernow, but for that extra day that
you're achieving, or whetherit's an extra week or month
because you're going to the gym,that is big picture, isn't it?
That is so that you can be herewith your daughters and help
your daughters and nurturingtheir lives.
Ron Kastner (14:29):
And I have to say,
a lot of it's now for me.
You know, at first it was allthem and a lot of it is now.
I had such a good time today.
I want to do this againtomorrow.
You know, and I see people whoare my age or younger.
(14:49):
They don't do this and I knowwhat's going to happen.
I just know what's going tohappen to them and I feel bad
for them.
I don't want to be a you know,you should do this kind of guy.
So what I do is what I've donein the book.
(15:10):
I say in the book this is not arice book.
I am just telling you my story,just so you know it's possible
and that's it.
You know, that's it.
It's pretty extensive, thestuff in the book.
I mean, you know, I hope peopleread it.
Peter Bowes (15:26):
Yeah, I've read the
book in detail and what you say
is what I always say as well,that I'm not giving advice.
I'm just sharing stories hereand hopefully, perhaps people
are inspired by hearing otherpeople's stories.
I think if and the best advicealways is that if you have a
real issue, you should go toyour doctor, you, medically, you
should seek the expertise.
(15:48):
But I think it is, it's greatto be inspired by the lives of
others and that's what.
That's why I'm talking to younow, and I want to talk about
your diet as well, because thetwo big pillars for me are
exercise and diet.
Sleep is the other one, butlet's talk about diet.
Did you change your diet inyour 60s?
Ron Kastner (16:09):
Yes, using the
detox diet as a springboard, I
now practice probably it's acombination of low calorie, low
carb and intermittent fasting.
The thing about the detox dietis that you learn how your body
(16:36):
reacts to food.
We're all different andeverybody's body is different.
Everybody reacts differentlyand I always knew that bread and
pasta for me were not good.
I felt bloated, it didn't feelright inside, and I learned that
in a big way on the detox,because the first thing you do
(16:59):
when you reintroduce some foodsis listen to your body and it
did not like that at all,especially once it got really
clean.
So the low-carb thing has alwaysbeen, you know it's kind of
like a paleo.
(17:19):
You know I eat mainly fish asprotein a few times a week,
occasionally eat I'm not big onpulses, simply there again, for
digestive comfort.
It's just too much food to eatto get the amount of protein
that I need and then mainlysalads and vegetables.
(17:43):
So you know I do a fairlystrict 12 to 14 hours a day of
non-eating, usually from 6 or 7at night till the following
morning, and it seems to work.
I have not gained an extrapound since the detox.
You know I'm 6 foot tall and Iweigh 75 kilos or 165 pounds.
(18:11):
So you know all my body, youknow BMI and all that stuff is
all within range, you know.
And so when the doctor, thedoctor likes it.
You said one thing before aboutmedicine going to see the doctor
.
I definitely agree with that.
But I have found I have achapter in the book called Four
Doctors and I have found thatmodern medicine is changing but
(18:37):
modern medicine does not do agreat job with prevention.
They do not.
You know this stuff that we'retalking about now.
Most people would go.
Most modern doctors would go.
Yeah, if it feels good to do it, it's not going to change
anything.
There are some people out therelike Peter Atia and Mark Hyman
(18:58):
and people like that, who aremuch better at the preventive
side.
Peter Bowes (19:05):
So I would agree
with you that there needs
globally to be a seismic shiftbetween that attitude of simply
treating disease and preventingdisease, and most health systems
around the world live by thatthat they see patients when
there's a problem, when they'rehurting somewhere, when they're
sick, and then they attempt totreat the condition.
(19:25):
The focus on preventativemedicine is there if you look
for it, but it's not thrust uponyou by the system, and that's,
I think, the big problem thatpeople go through their lives,
they get sick, they seek somesort of remedy without really
focusing and thinking on thepreventative side.
Ron Kastner (19:46):
And this is why I
was going to say this at the
beginning and I'm glad we cameback around to it for your
listeners.
And it's how I, every time Igive a little talk or something
to a group of people, I usuallystart out by saying your health
and your later lifeno-transcript are guided by you
(20:09):
and what you want out of your.
You know later life.
If you've got health for youknow those 20 or 30 years that
we now call later life you willbe.
You have plenty of time to livea dynamic, changing, energetic
(20:31):
life and you can do lots ofthings that you've always wanted
to do in life and everythingelse, but you have to spend time
looking after your health.
So what you want and whatmatters to you, or who matters
to you, really becomes thecentral question.
And while the medicalestablishment is not seeking
(20:54):
prevention, we can substitutefor that and do it ourselves.
You know, and all the stuff I,all the stuff I have in the book
I learned from public sourcesnone of its you know, none of
its doctors, none of its, itsstudies, its books, it's all
kind of stuff you mentionedgiving up drinking earlier,
(21:15):
giving up alcohol.
Peter Bowes (21:16):
Just tell me about
that experience.
How much did you drink beforeand what was the transition like
?
Ron Kastner (21:23):
I lived a pretty
plush life.
I was flying back and forth toNew York and London.
I had offices in both places.
I was, I was, I wasentertaining a lot, I was
producing theater.
In both places I was drinkinglike incredibly expensive wine
and I could hold alcohol reallywell all my life, you know, and
(21:45):
it made me feel good, it made methe life of the party and you
know, it's sort of I was alwaysa timid kid and it I got rid of
the ambitions and everythingelse.
When I started doing my healthstuff, I went you know all the
people, all the, all the studiesI was doing there.
So if you could point to onething that would, you know, that
(22:08):
would hurt your health journey,what would it be?
And without a doubt it camedown.
I said I can't square thatcircle, I can't.
So I tried cutting back, Itried cutting down.
It didn't work.
I was just, I was a heavysocial drinker.
How much?
At least a half a bottle ofwine every night, but more often
(22:31):
a cocktail or two before that.
Half a bottle of wine and morethan a half a bottle of wine.
You know that was.
You know that's quite a bit,you know, and I tolerated it
well more than a few hangoversin my life.
And I just said to myself if Ican't stop, I gotta find a way.
(22:52):
And then there was one night Ihave to say it was one night
after a cocktail party and Ijust didn't remember what
happened and I didn't go.
I went to the cocktail partysaying I'm just gonna have one
glass of wine tonight and beforeI knew it, it just you know, my
wife said.
(23:12):
I said you know, did we have agood time last night?
And she said, yeah, you know,you were fine and everything.
And she didn't even know that Iwas.
And I just didn't remember whathappened after a certain point.
And I said to myself okay, thisis it.
And out of the blue, I just Iknew it had been building for a
(23:35):
while and I knew and I juststopped cold turkey.
Now, that does not mean I don'tdrink now, but for a good seven
or eight years I didn't touch adrop.
So I learned what it was likenot drinking.
And now I do stop after oneglass of wine.
Peter Bowes (23:58):
And explain to me
what that difference felt like
from being quite a heavy drinkerto not drink and stopping cold
turkey to not drinking at allfor several years?
How did your body respond tothat?
Ron Kastner (24:11):
My digestion
improved dramatically, my energy
improved dramatically.
It was a real, as I say in thebook, it was a really tough
adjustment to be timid atcocktail parties again.
But what I found out wasthere's a lot of other people
who were timid at cocktailparties and then we're hanging
(24:32):
out on the outskirts of theaction too and I would just make
new friends and they turned outto be a little bit more
interesting than the ones whowere all lit up from alcohol.
It was difficult at first.
It was very difficult at firstbecause the alcohol for me was a
real crutch and if I knew I wasgoing someplace that wasn't
(24:56):
gonna have alcohol, I would haveone before.
So but you cannot square thatcircle.
You can't live a long life andbe a drinker.
It's not gonna happen.
Well, I think it can happen ifyou've got extraordinary DNA,
(25:17):
but not that level.
Peter Bowes (25:19):
So what's
interesting to me about your
story is, though, that you haveactually gone back to some
drinking.
After several years of notdrinking any alcohol, you do
occasionally have a drink.
Now, what was the thoughtprocess there?
Was it a conscious decisionthat you actually like alcohol,
you'd like to taste itoccasionally, or what was it?
Ron Kastner (25:40):
It was just there
once and I said you know what?
It's been so long, let me seewhat it's like again.
And it was like having acigarette for the first time at
12 years old or something, or 16or whatever it was.
And I was all dizzy and my bodywas like whoa, this is weird.
(26:02):
And I said I don't wanna dothis.
So I didn't have to get thatfirst one.
Then, sort of slowly, you know,I just sort of had I just
started doing it again.
Speaker 3 (26:19):
It's not there are.
Ron Kastner (26:21):
Sometimes I will
have a glass of wine and regret
it the next morning andsometimes I don't.
I just say to myself why did I?
Did I really need that?
It never goes more than a glass, sometimes another half a glass
or something like that.
(26:41):
Because there's a.
I now have a stop, which Ididn't have before, and the stop
is the health stuff.
So I'm not gonna do that, I'mgonna do that, thank you.
You know the health stuff andbad sleep.
Peter Bowes (27:01):
So because it
really affects your sleep, let's
talk about the Psychologicalside of what you've been doing.
Clearly, there are physicalchanges that you've been able to
bring about because of yourchange of diet and your
increased amount of exercise,but what's it done to your mind
and to your brain and to youroutlook on life?
Ron Kastner (27:22):
well, you can't.
You can't spend as much time inthe health space as I do, and
not?
Health is health and healingare powers that were given to us
at birth.
They're not, we don't make themhappen ourselves.
They are, you know, fundamentalwith how life works, the whole
(27:47):
health thing.
Okay, and you can't, I Don't.
I personally don't believe thathealth is only a physical thing,
and once your body startshealing and you get stronger and
you have more energy and you're, and Physically you are, more
(28:10):
capable, the healing processDoesn't stop there.
The healing process goes intothe emotional side.
The healing process goes intothe spiritual side, and at least
that's that's the way it hashappened with me, and, and with
me I had to go back and do a lotof work about In psychotherapy
(28:36):
with my, in my childhood andwhat, what that was like and
what you know I had.
I got hit by a sledgehammerwhen I was seven years old, the,
the, my father died.
I was an only child and mymother kind of fell apart, you
know.
So I, I was basically withoutparents or effective parents for
(28:59):
much of the time after that andI had to go back and explore
some of that stuff and get ridof some of the anger and why
don't know about getting rid ofit a bit, at least acknowledge
it and some of the some of thehurt and all the other stuff.
You know, we live, we like tolive our lives as if we're in
(29:22):
control of them.
Peter Bowes (29:24):
But you know, our
childhood experiences are
usually are looming in thebackground in a in a degree that
we don't, we don't really wantto admit, take on and did it
like day-to-day life and haveyou learned about Self-respect,
about being thankful for what wehave every day through a new
(29:46):
Appreciation of life and Icertainly get this from reading
your book that you have your,your mindset has evolved in that
respect, absolutely.
Ron Kastner (29:54):
I mean, I have a
morning routine.
It's mostly movement, but it'salso some meditation and just
that.
Just the feeling of being aliveIs just so visceral and so
joyous, and it doesn't need tobe a beautiful sunny day, it
(30:14):
doesn't need to, it's just ah,here I am, my breath, my
heart-speeding, a wonder that isour bodies.
It's just almost like aceaseless Source of amazement
for me, you know, and it's 90%of the energy we expend every
(30:34):
day and we completely take itfor granted.
This sort of humming, you knowvisual Organism that's directly
in touch with the universe ofthe world around us.
You know, yeah, for instance,if we were walking down the
street and looking to cross thestreet and a speeding car Would
(30:55):
come by, everything we werethinking about doing and
everything else, we'd stop andpull that it was that part of us
there's always an alert, isalways working.
You know, we are the mostamazing things on this planet
and we don't treat ourselvesthat way and is that's, in part,
(31:17):
the reason why you wrote thebook.
Peter Bowes (31:19):
You've gone through
these experiences and you
wanted to share what it's likewith other people.
Ron Kastner (31:24):
Yep, yeah, I mean,
first and foremost I wanted to
share it with my daughters.
I wanted them to say here's,here's why I did what I did and
here's who your dad is okay.
But I also Said you know what?
There's a lot of other peopleout there Well, I see that don't
(31:45):
Know what the possibilities areat this time of life.
And the wider we circulate thatinformation, the more people
tell their stories about, abouthow they do things and why they
do things.
You know the why beater tea.
It makes a really good pointsaying the why Of your later
(32:07):
life is much more important thanthe how of your later life.
You know why are you doing thisand that's gonna be all your
motivation.
And once you do that, the housewill come into place.
They all fall into placeBecause there's so much advice
out there that you couldn'tpossibly follow all of it.
You have to come to terms withsome house that work for you,
(32:30):
you know so.
Peter Bowes (32:31):
Yes, I often say
that that the amount of advice
out there is bewildering.
But ultimately it is up to youand that's why, hopefully,
talking to people like yourself,talking to other experts,
especially in terms of what I do, is just part of the process of
navigating all of thatinformation to figure out
Because we're all individual toindividually decide what is best
(32:53):
for us.
Ron, your book is fascinating.
Thank you so much for sharingit.
It's called A Life Yet to Live,finding Health, vitality and
Joy After 60.
You'll find a link to it in theshow notes for this episode,
along with a transcript of thisconversation.
Ron, let me just ask you inclosing what do you see in your
(33:13):
future?
What are your aspirations forthe future Mid-70s now?
Do you think about your ownlongevity?
Do you have a plan?
Speaker 3 (33:21):
Sure.
Peter Bowes (33:22):
Or how are you
going to navigate the years
ahead?
Ron Kastner (33:23):
I don't really.
You know, life is just ispretty joyous day to day.
I mean, I think there might beanother book coming.
I felt some stirrings.
I don't know what that book isgoing to be yet, but it felt
good writing it.
It took a long time but it feltgood writing it.
The website that I do atronkastnercom I do two posts a
(33:46):
week on a newsletter, so that iskind of like always updating
what I'm learning and thingsthat are on my mind and things
like that.
That's a lot of fun.
My daughters are getting olderso the time with them is
different.
It's different quality.
They're starting to have livesof their own and so I don't know
(34:11):
, but I think you know thatevery day is pretty wonderful,
so I'm just sort of taking itone day at a time.
You know it's really.
You know the joy.
The joy is in the title for areason, because it does feel
pretty good being mobile andenergetic and healthy at this
(34:32):
time of life.
Peter Bowes (34:33):
Ron, really good to
talk to you, good to be
inspired by what you've achievedand what you're working towards
.
The book is a really good read.
Thank you so much.
Thank you, Peter.
Speaker 3 (34:43):
This podcast is for
informational, educational and
entertainment purposes only.
We do not offer medical advice.
If you have health concerns ofany kind or you are considering
adopting a new diet or exerciseregime, you should first consult
your doctor.