June 11, 2025 • 23 mins
In this episode of the MGMA Business Solutions Podcast, host Daniel Williams sits down with Aaron Reinke, MD, a board-certified family physician and director of clinical informatics. Together, they explore how artificial intelligence and technology are transforming healthcare delivery. With a background in engineering and medicine, Dr. Reinke shares insights into reducing administrative burdens, improving patient interactions, and leveraging AI tools like Microsoft Dragon Copilot to help physicians rediscover the joy of practicing medicine.
Key Takeaways:
Rural Healthcare Technology Challenges [05:11]
- Limited internet connectivity can impact telemedicine
- Aging populations may be initially suspicious of new technologies
- Requires transparent communication about AI and technology tools
Physician Burnout Mitigation [08:37]
- Technology can reduce hours spent on administrative tasks after work
- AI helps physicians focus on healing and human connection
- Allows more time for meaningful patient interactions
Administrative Burden Reduction [09:38]
- AI tools like DAX Co-Pilot can dramatically reduce documentation time
- Physicians spend less time typing and more time connecting with patients
- Helps level the technological playing field for providers with varying tech skills
Patient Acceptance of AI Tools [12:17]
- Transparency is key to building patient trust
- Explain HIPAA compliance and data protection
- Highlight how AI improves overall patient care experience
AI Implementation Best Practices [17:06]
- Provide one-on-one support for technology adoption
- Use early adopters to mentor and guide less tech-savvy providers
- Personalize training to individual learning styles and practice needs
Future of AI in Healthcare [19:08]
- AI will help integrate patient information more efficiently
- Shift from data collection to meaningful patient connection
- Goal is treating patients as whole persons, not just medical cases
Resources:
- Microsoft Dragon Copilot - Learn more here
- Connect with Dr. Aaron Reinke on LinkedIn
Additional Resources:
Email us at dwilliams@mgma.com if you would like to appear on an episode. If you have a question about your practice that you would like us to answer, send an email to advisor@mgma.com. Don't forget to subscribe to our network wherever you get your podcasts.
Podcast Sponsor Boost Lingo
This episode is brought to you by Boost Lingo, the language services platform behind MGMA Translate, interpreter delays and high agency fees, strain budgets, and staff morale. Boost lingo on demand fixes both tap once and a qualified medical interpreter joins in about 13 seconds. Video or phone on any device. No ste
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Daniel Williams (00:53):
Well, hi, everyone. Welcome to the MGMA
Business Solutions Podcast. I'myour host, senior editor, Daniel
Williams. Today, we're exploringhow artificial intelligence and
technology are helping healthcare providers streamline
workflows and reconnect with thejoy of practicing medicine. Our
(01:13):
guest to help explore that topicis Doctor.
Erin Reinke, a board certifiedfamily physician and director of
clinical informatics at NewportHospital in Health Services.
Doctor Reinke, welcome to theshow.
Dr. Aaron Reinke (01:29):
Thank you. Glad to be here.
Daniel Williams (01:31):
Yeah. You and I were talking offline. We were
talking about what thisparticular delivery system is
like. You are in a differentdelivery system in a practice.
And so the way you interact withyour patients, well, it's a
little different here with usinteracting with our MGMA
audience, but we're gonna sharethe information that you have
(01:51):
and your interaction with thepractices and how technology has
helped that.
So before we get there, let'sjust talk a little bit about
your background in health care,how you got interested in both
medicine and technology.
Dr. Aaron Reinke (02:05):
Yeah. Thank you. So, well, I'm a family
medicine physician, as youmentioned. I'm in a rural
community, so in a ruralcommunity access hospital. And I
actually started beforemedicine, I was an engineer.
So I did a lot of civilenvironmental engineering. It
kinda gave me a differentmindset, workflows, and
operations. And and then aftermedical school, you know,
(02:25):
getting into just how medicineworks and and witnessing how
that happens for the time as amedical student, you see that
things work very different inmedicine than they do in a lot
of the other industries, youknow, like in pipe flow systems
and manufacturing. There's a lotmore precision, a lot more
automatization of protocols inmedicine. They've incorporated
(02:47):
some of that, right, with withtimeouts and and surgery, but I
was kind of surprised by by thatand startled by how much there's
a little there's just so muchart to medicine.
And so yeah. Anyway, we switchedfrom that engineering mindset
into into medicine and havesince used that and incorporated
that with technology to see,hey. How is how is medicine able
(03:09):
to integrate some of thoseprotocolizations, automizations,
and and now AI to try to engageand get rid of that, you know,
that burden, that EHR burden,the documentation burden that
physicians are struggling withnow.
Daniel Williams (03:22):
Yeah. That's really interesting. I've
interviewed quite a few peoplein health care. We I was telling
you offline, we've done aboutfive to 600 of these podcast
episodes. You may be the personthat had an engineering
background that I'veinterviewed.
Is that a rare do you bump intosome former engineers in your
health care world?
Dr. Aaron Reinke (03:42):
Yeah. There are actually quite a few. Like,
in at least where I went tomedical school, I had several
buddies who were engineers priorto medical school too, and some
of them have patents inbiotechnology, and some of them
just did something completelydifferent with with engineering.
Like, I was doing water andwastewater sanitation, which was
more of a public health kind ofperiod. And I have other friends
(04:03):
who they designed, you know,systems for various
manufacturing companies that hadnothing to do with health care
anyway.
So yeah.
Daniel Williams (04:11):
That's that's really cool. I love getting
people's background and justhearing a little bit more about
that journey to their currenthealthcare role. So let's talk
about that healthcare role. Youwere talking a little bit about
your practice. Tell us a littlebit more about it, the size and
scope of the practice, and whatyou see as your role there as
the director of clinicalinformatics.
Dr. Aaron Reinke (04:32):
Yeah. So we're in a small critical access area.
We're in the mountains in thePacific Northwest. I'm still
doing the rural country doctorthing. So I still do c sections,
deliver babies, do colonoscopiesin hospital, out hospital.
So I get to have a lot of funwith a big scope of practice. We
have about 15 p 15 otherproviders in our group. So
(04:52):
fairly big group for a smallplace. Right? We only have maybe
3,000 in our town and maybe15,000 in the county that we
serve, but we have high speedInternet, which is kinda rare
for some rural places, althoughbecoming more common.
But that does give us anopportunity to to use some of
the technology things in aremote place that some other
(05:12):
places maybe didn't have accessto. We use we use Epic system
right now, which we we added ona few years ago, and we partner
with a local bigger group like aProvidence Health System that's
nearby that kinda helps ussupport that. So it's a really
fun place to work because we'rein the mountains, so we have all
the the fun toys and extrarecreational activities that we
(05:34):
have, but we also get that fullscope for family medicine, which
keeps just keeps you interestedand keeps, you know, keeps that
rewarding part of medicinereally there.
Daniel Williams (05:43):
There have been there are a lot of unique
challenges in those ruralsettings. Talk about the role
that technology has played inhelping you meet those patients
where they are, whether it's AItools or other technology tools
so you can really serve thosepatients.
Dr. Aaron Reinke (06:01):
Yeah. I think there's probably two components
of that. I think one is how dopatients interact with
technology. Right? In a ruralplace, even telemedicine can be
really challenging because theonly place that a patient has
signal is on top of the hill ontheir 30 acres, And so they're
outside with their phone tryingto to do telemedicine with you,
and that's really sometimeschallenging.
(06:23):
And then we have a lot of agingpopulation just like everywhere
in The US. And in in a ruralplace, I think a lot of the
aging population there's areason why they're still they
wanna be isolated, and they'revery suspicious of technology.
Mhmm. And so incorporating someof the more advanced stuff like
AI into our day to day businesspractice, it's always
(06:44):
interesting to see what theacceptance is from a patient
perspective. You know, we say,hey.
We're using AI for a scribeservice, for example. You know,
how accepting are they gonna beof that? And I think they're
getting more and more so, butthere's still some suspicion
that the government's listeningin or tracking them. And and so
you have to, you know, try to doyour best in messaging and and
(07:04):
reassuring patients that this istruly trying to help everybody
in what they do. And then thepart of that is the providers
themselves because there's ahuge range of provider comfort
with technology.
You know, medicine doesn'texactly train you on how to be
really good at using a computer,but somehow you're supposed to
(07:24):
be kind of an expert at, youknow, conglomerating all the
pieces of the patient, you know,experience and then documenting
it and and almost orchestratingthis thing on a computer when,
really, you're just trained tobe an expert at diagnosing
something and connecting with aperson and treating them. And
you you have to gain this skillon the backside. And some
physicians, for a variety ofreasons, have different
(07:45):
experience and background andreally some excel and some
really struggle with technologyfor all those reasons.
Daniel Williams (07:51):
Yeah. I was wondering about that. I was in a
meeting yesterday with someclinicians and some
administrators, and one of thedoctors who was in that meeting
said he was talking abouthimself and many other doctors
knows that technology isn't justsecondhand for them. It's not
very easy to adapt. You comefrom that engineering
(08:13):
background.
Where would you put yourself inthat field? An early adopter?
Someone that easily accessestechnology?
Dr. Aaron Reinke (08:20):
For sure. Early adopter. I think part of
my generation as well. Right? Igrew up in the age where
technology was reallyaccelerating quickly.
So, like, it was normal for meto be part of video games and to
be part of computer softwaresand instant messenger and see
how that was evolving andlearning how to evolve with it
versus, I know, colleagues evenfive, ten years older than
(08:41):
myself struggle because theydidn't have that kind of
evolutionary growth as they wentthrough their training. They
were really focused on adifferent piece. And so but, you
know, I have also found thatthere are several physicians who
are in their sixties who arephenomenal with technology. And
so, you know, there's there'ssuch a huge variety, and I think
(09:01):
it just plays to the strengthsof how someone thinks and what
they're into. And but it doesmake it challenging when you're
trying to implement a newtechnology or trying to get some
early adopters and lateadopters.
And even with, like, simplethings, not just AI, but just,
you know, regular use of an EMR.Right?
Daniel Williams (09:19):
I think
Dr. Aaron Reinke (09:19):
that can create some big challenges and
and we have to come up with somedifferent types of solutions for
every type of learner and andage gap there.
Daniel Williams (09:27):
Yeah. It's it's interesting. I'm kind of
sandwiched in. I've got parentswho are in their nineties who
think I'm a technology savant,and I've got a a daughter in
college who thinks I don't knowanything about technology. So
it's sometimes it's justperspective.
Right?
Dr. Aaron Reinke (09:42):
Yeah. I think what's so sad though is that,
like, if it's not your strengthRight. Medicine right now really
creates a huge administrativeburden. And so if it's not your
strength, then you are reallypunished in your in your ability
to to care for patients, notonly to get access to the
information to see them anddocument what you need to
document, but your life afterwork. It may be spent doing a
(10:06):
large majority of work becauseyou're just not as efficient,
and so you spend hours and hoursafter work.
And that, I think, contributesto, you know, physician burnout,
And we see that a lot with ourproviders. It's like AI will
really help with that for a lotof them and and just escalate
and improve their ability toutilize just the technology
(10:26):
instead of it being a burden.
Daniel Williams (10:28):
Yeah. Let's talk about that burden. That was
actually one of the nextquestions I wanted to ask you
about. We have seen studies.I've had interviews with
clinicians here on the on thepodcast about those
administrative burdens, people,physicians, and others in health
care being weighted down by EHRtasks.
So with that said, where haveyou seen technology in your
(10:51):
practice utilized to try tolessen some of those burdens?
Dr. Aaron Reinke (10:55):
Yeah. I think there are so many tools to doing
this right now, you know. Andwith Epic, at least, there's
quick actions and smart phrasesand smart tools, but you have to
be relatively sophisticated toput that all together to
actually save you time. Youknow, Dax Copilot, which is a
tool that we use Mhmm. As ascribe service, which is really
expanding even beyond scribing,that takes a lot less of it
(11:21):
takes a lot of the guessing gameout for a lot of providers, and
it it almost evens the playingfield as far as just trying to
get your documentation done in ain a faster time sense without a
lot of training.
Right? Like, when I do a lot ofactually advising with
physicians who struggle withtechnology and other hospital
systems, and so we'll spend alot of time teaching all these
(11:42):
different tools and trying tointegrate them all together, how
to use Dragon and automate allthese buttons, and there's a lot
of training to do that. And withDax Copilot, what's really nice
is you just say, hey. Just pressthis record button before and
then press it after. And within,you know, with a couple, I don't
know, maybe five minutes ofsetup, you can have them rocking
and rolling to dramaticallyreduce their their just typing
(12:04):
burden.
Right? They're still chickenpecking on the keyboard. Now
suddenly they can have athousand character HPI that
would have taken them an hour towrite or even dictate, and now
it's it's already done in a waythat's really well done and in a
way that's satisfactory for aphysician because doctors can be
picky on their documentation.And I think, you know, Dex
(12:25):
CoPilot has really pushed thethe envelope. They're really
leading on the quality of the ofthe HPI as well as the
assessment and the whole thewhole output is really
impressive.
But it's so plug and play forthem that it takes those
physicians who have really ahard time with technology and
just gives them this great toolthat they can plug and play
(12:47):
really easily.
Daniel Williams (12:48):
Yeah. And then when you have those
conversations with patientsabout Dragon or Dax Copilot, how
does that go? Because you weretalking about some patients may
be a little bit wary abouttechnology and and what that
might mean. So how do you havethat conversation and just ease
their Right. Any kind of stressthey may have?
Dr. Aaron Reinke (13:07):
Yeah. I think transparency is key. And the the
more I mean, even in the lastyear, the acceptance rate has
really gone way up becausepatients are more familiar with
it. They they're seeing it'sintegrated on their iPhone
already. They're seeing it inlots of places, and so they're
just more familiar with it.
I think familiarity is the keyto trust. And and then you just
(13:27):
have to have a few differentkind of phrases that you say.
Like, hey. You know, thisrecording is not kept for more
than so many days and havingsome your own expertise on, hey.
What's the safety on this?
What's the HIPAA compliance sothat you can reassure them, hey.
This isn't being tracked. It'snot going anywhere. This is to
make this interaction better foryou and me so that I can spend
(13:48):
more time with you, and I canactually look you in the eyes.
And almost everybody is on boardfor that.
Daniel Williams (13:53):
Yeah. For sure. Well, let's drill down then.
Tell us a success story where AIor workflow optimization has
measurably improved by usingthese different tools?
Dr. Aaron Reinke (14:05):
Yeah. I think one of I was thinking about this
the other day, which is one ofthe ways that we get behind and
your day can really get ruinedis say, I'm seeing 20 patients.
And on patient three, it's areally hard visit. Someone
brings up 10 extra problems, andand, you know, I try to have my
notes done after every singleencounter. And I know if I do
(14:26):
that, I can go home at 04:00that day or 05:00.
But if I don't do that, then I'mbehind the rest of the day, and
I can't get any of my notesdone. It's this weird
phenomenon. Any provider who'sseeing patients knows what I'm
talking about. What's nice aboutDex CoPilot and just any scribe
like, really good scribeservices, if you have that
really hard patient, then youdon't have to be burdened by, oh
(14:49):
my gosh. That note is gonna takeme so long to do, and then the
rest of the day is ruinedbecause it keeps up with you
every time, and so it justaccelerates that speed.
So for me, if I really justallow it to do its thing, then I
can continue to focus on on thepatient. And it helps you you
know, I have patients bring upall sorts of little things. Hey.
(15:12):
I've got this ingrown toenail.Hey.
I've got this rash. And I thinkthe other part is half the time,
I don't put that in the notebecause it's oh, it's you know,
hey. Just put that in Epsomsalts. It'll be fine. It's not
worth documenting, but we mightdocument a lot more pieces,
which helps us as a ruralhospital capture more, charge in
capability so that we can upcode and actually not up code
(15:34):
illegally, but to show whatwe're actually doing and get
credit for that.
And that helps us with ourreimbursement as well as a rural
facility that's alwaysstruggling financially. We can
help capture that stuff thatwe're doing for our patients. So
those two big pieces. Right?Getting us home earlier and
helping our revenue cycle hasbeen huge for us.
Daniel Williams (15:54):
Yeah. Now earlier, you mentioned that your
patients seem to be gettingadjusted or accustomed to AI and
Dragon and Dax Copilot. What aresome of the misconceptions then
about AI in health care, whetherit's from the patient
perspective or from yourcolleagues and your staff, how
(16:15):
they feel about it?
Dr. Aaron Reinke (16:17):
I think the big one is that AI is just gonna
take over. There's not gonna bewe don't I've seen a few
LinkedIn posts from otherdoctors that are like, hey. In
five years, we're not gonna haveprimary care anymore. We're just
gonna use AI. And to somedegree, I think there will be
some things that will go awayfrom primary care.
You know, people will use AI alot more to help their own self
(16:39):
diagnosis at home, sometimes forthe better, sometimes not. But I
think really what AI is gonna dois just take away the
administrative burden thatphysicians have and that
patients have and really help usget back to connecting with each
other where we actually can havetime to do what doctors wanna
do, which is to be a healer. Youwanna hold hands. You wanna sit
(17:00):
with people, pray with yourpatients. You wanna hug with
them and go through all theemotional connections that
people want and need becausethey, you know, they desperately
need that connection, and weneed that.
And that's what we went intomedicine for, not to do all the
administrative burdens that wehave. And so this is an
opportunity for technology totake that away and bring back
(17:21):
that human connection. Soironically, doctors have become
more robotic, and we're gonnahopefully use the AI to let us
be less robotic.
Daniel Williams (17:29):
I love that. That is a great way to to say
that. Let's talk about thosepractices. Maybe they're
listening right now to thisconversation. They're not the
early adopter to AI.
Maybe they do a little bit, butthey're just not fully on board.
What would you say to them thatthis is what adoption may look
like? Let's not worry about thatoverwhelm. This is how we just
(17:52):
utilize this and use some bestpractices to use AI to the best
effect possible.
Dr. Aaron Reinke (17:58):
I think it would always help to have
somebody hold your hand throughit a little bit. So if you have
an early adopter in your programwho has been able to pilot
something or get themsomething's going and they have
another person who's a lateadopter who's really struggling
with technology, doing one onone time with them to show them
the tips and tricks that workfor them, I think that speaks
(18:19):
volumes, and it gets them wherethey need to go way faster.
Because if you just say, hey. Wesigned you up for this new AI
service to a person who's reallynot comfortable with technology.
They're not they're gonnaabandon it faster because
they're not gonna reallyunderstand it.
And especially something as easyas, like, the Axe Code pilot,
which is as bad as easy as youcould get it for plug and play.
(18:42):
If you need to have that person,whether that's a technologist
or, you know, an informaticistor just another physician, there
has to be a little bit ofhandholding and investment in
that and say, hey. We need tohave somebody coming back
around, checking in, doing that.And then it won't be so scary
because you have somebody therewho can kinda show you, hey.
This is how it's really impactedmy life and how I know your
(19:04):
practice style and what you willlike and won't like because not
everyone uses it the same.
You know? I found a lot oftechnology when I'm I say, hey.
You know, if you're a reallyhigh user, we'll do all these
really cool things, and that'llbe awesome. And for some people,
they're just trying to get pastthe the chicken pecking on the
keyboard to so that their MAisn't writing everything for
(19:24):
them or putting in everythingfor them. They can kinda
streamline this one piece.
And so take it slow and and andjust try to modify for the
person what the next step is. SoI don't they don't have to be
the savant on on Epic. They cantake that next step.
Daniel Williams (19:40):
Okay. Last question then. We've been
talking about where AI is rightnow in that physician patient
relationship. Just looking alittle bit into the future,
where do you see it going? Howdo you see it helping grow and
foster those physician andpatient relationships?
Dr. Aaron Reinke (19:58):
Well, think the the hope for me is that one
day we'll be able to take youknow, one thing a physician does
is that they they click allthrough the chart and they have
to collect they have to be thethe data gatherer. And they they
gather all the data about heartfailure, all the data about
diabetes, and then they put ittogether into the synopsis. And
(20:20):
it's ninety five percent of thetime collecting information and
5% thinking about it. And I'mhoping that we can get to the AI
integrates with the patientinformation and chart, collects
that, puts together for thephysician, and then you can
really spend a a majority ofyour time connecting with people
again. And like I talked aboutbefore, being a healer is so
(20:42):
important for most doctors.
And just as humans, right, weall wanna connect with each
other. It's in one of the mostvulnerable times in your life
when you go to a doctor and youshare something that you're
struggling with. Maybe it's arelationship with your spouse or
maybe it's just your shameregarding your weight or
whatever it is. It's such avulnerable time. And if the
(21:03):
physician's just staring at ascreen typing, there's nothing
more defeating than that.
But instead, if we can say, hey.Listen. We are we can take that
burden away. You don't have tothink and worry about that.
Let's focus on connecting ashumans.
Then I think, you know, we'renot treating a disease anymore.
We're not treating a problem ona problem list. We're treating a
person, and that's the goal.
Daniel Williams (21:24):
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. So doctor Aaron
Reinke, thank you so much forjoining us on the MGMA Business
Solutions Podcast today.
Dr. Aaron Reinke (21:32):
Thank you so much for having me. It was a
pleasure.
Daniel Williams (21:35):
Yeah. So for everybody listening, if you
wanna learn more about MicrosoftDragon Copilot, be sure to visit
aka.ms/healthcarefuture. I willput that in the episode show
notes as well, so you can justclick right through to it to
learn more. And I wanna thankall of you for tuning in to the
MGMA Business Solutions Podcast.Until next time, take care and
(21:58):
be well.
Well, hi, everyone. Welcome to the MGMA
Business Solutions Podcast. I'myour host, senior editor, Daniel
Williams. Today, we're exploringhow artificial intelligence and
technology are helping healthcare providers streamline
workflows and reconnect with thejoy of practicing medicine. Our
(01:13):
guest to help explore that topicis Doctor.
Erin Reinke, a board certifiedfamily physician and director of
clinical informatics at NewportHospital in Health Services.
Doctor Reinke, welcome to theshow.
Dr. Aaron Reinke (01:29):
Thank you. Glad to be here.
Daniel Williams (01:31):
Yeah. You and I were talking offline. We were
talking about what thisparticular delivery system is
like. You are in a differentdelivery system in a practice.
And so the way you interact withyour patients, well, it's a
little different here with usinteracting with our MGMA
audience, but we're gonna sharethe information that you have
(01:51):
and your interaction with thepractices and how technology has
helped that.
So before we get there, let'sjust talk a little bit about
your background in health care,how you got interested in both
medicine and technology.
Dr. Aaron Reinke (02:05):
Yeah. Thank you. So, well, I'm a family
medicine physician, as youmentioned. I'm in a rural
community, so in a ruralcommunity access hospital. And I
actually started beforemedicine, I was an engineer.
So I did a lot of civilenvironmental engineering. It
kinda gave me a differentmindset, workflows, and
operations. And and then aftermedical school, you know,
(02:25):
getting into just how medicineworks and and witnessing how
that happens for the time as amedical student, you see that
things work very different inmedicine than they do in a lot
of the other industries, youknow, like in pipe flow systems
and manufacturing. There's a lotmore precision, a lot more
automatization of protocols inmedicine. They've incorporated
(02:47):
some of that, right, with withtimeouts and and surgery, but I
was kind of surprised by by thatand startled by how much there's
a little there's just so muchart to medicine.
And so yeah. Anyway, we switchedfrom that engineering mindset
into into medicine and havesince used that and incorporated
that with technology to see,hey. How is how is medicine able
(03:09):
to integrate some of thoseprotocolizations, automizations,
and and now AI to try to engageand get rid of that, you know,
that burden, that EHR burden,the documentation burden that
physicians are struggling withnow.
Daniel Williams (03:22):
Yeah. That's really interesting. I've
interviewed quite a few peoplein health care. We I was telling
you offline, we've done aboutfive to 600 of these podcast
episodes. You may be the personthat had an engineering
background that I'veinterviewed.
Is that a rare do you bump intosome former engineers in your
health care world?
Dr. Aaron Reinke (03:42):
Yeah. There are actually quite a few. Like,
in at least where I went tomedical school, I had several
buddies who were engineers priorto medical school too, and some
of them have patents inbiotechnology, and some of them
just did something completelydifferent with with engineering.
Like, I was doing water andwastewater sanitation, which was
more of a public health kind ofperiod. And I have other friends
(04:03):
who they designed, you know,systems for various
manufacturing companies that hadnothing to do with health care
anyway.
So yeah.
Daniel Williams (04:11):
That's that's really cool. I love getting
people's background and justhearing a little bit more about
that journey to their currenthealthcare role. So let's talk
about that healthcare role. Youwere talking a little bit about
your practice. Tell us a littlebit more about it, the size and
scope of the practice, and whatyou see as your role there as
the director of clinicalinformatics.
Dr. Aaron Reinke (04:32):
Yeah. So we're in a small critical access area.
We're in the mountains in thePacific Northwest. I'm still
doing the rural country doctorthing. So I still do c sections,
deliver babies, do colonoscopiesin hospital, out hospital.
So I get to have a lot of funwith a big scope of practice. We
have about 15 p 15 otherproviders in our group. So
(04:52):
fairly big group for a smallplace. Right? We only have maybe
3,000 in our town and maybe15,000 in the county that we
serve, but we have high speedInternet, which is kinda rare
for some rural places, althoughbecoming more common.
But that does give us anopportunity to to use some of
the technology things in aremote place that some other
(05:12):
places maybe didn't have accessto. We use we use Epic system
right now, which we we added ona few years ago, and we partner
with a local bigger group like aProvidence Health System that's
nearby that kinda helps ussupport that. So it's a really
fun place to work because we'rein the mountains, so we have all
the the fun toys and extrarecreational activities that we
(05:34):
have, but we also get that fullscope for family medicine, which
keeps just keeps you interestedand keeps, you know, keeps that
rewarding part of medicinereally there.
Daniel Williams (05:43):
There have been there are a lot of unique
challenges in those ruralsettings. Talk about the role
that technology has played inhelping you meet those patients
where they are, whether it's AItools or other technology tools
so you can really serve thosepatients.
Dr. Aaron Reinke (06:01):
Yeah. I think there's probably two components
of that. I think one is how dopatients interact with
technology. Right? In a ruralplace, even telemedicine can be
really challenging because theonly place that a patient has
signal is on top of the hill ontheir 30 acres, And so they're
outside with their phone tryingto to do telemedicine with you,
and that's really sometimeschallenging.
(06:23):
And then we have a lot of agingpopulation just like everywhere
in The US. And in in a ruralplace, I think a lot of the
aging population there's areason why they're still they
wanna be isolated, and they'revery suspicious of technology.
Mhmm. And so incorporating someof the more advanced stuff like
AI into our day to day businesspractice, it's always
(06:44):
interesting to see what theacceptance is from a patient
perspective. You know, we say,hey.
We're using AI for a scribeservice, for example. You know,
how accepting are they gonna beof that? And I think they're
getting more and more so, butthere's still some suspicion
that the government's listeningin or tracking them. And and so
you have to, you know, try to doyour best in messaging and and
(07:04):
reassuring patients that this istruly trying to help everybody
in what they do. And then thepart of that is the providers
themselves because there's ahuge range of provider comfort
with technology.
You know, medicine doesn'texactly train you on how to be
really good at using a computer,but somehow you're supposed to
(07:24):
be kind of an expert at, youknow, conglomerating all the
pieces of the patient, you know,experience and then documenting
it and and almost orchestratingthis thing on a computer when,
really, you're just trained tobe an expert at diagnosing
something and connecting with aperson and treating them. And
you you have to gain this skillon the backside. And some
physicians, for a variety ofreasons, have different
(07:45):
experience and background andreally some excel and some
really struggle with technologyfor all those reasons.
Daniel Williams (07:51):
Yeah. I was wondering about that. I was in a
meeting yesterday with someclinicians and some
administrators, and one of thedoctors who was in that meeting
said he was talking abouthimself and many other doctors
knows that technology isn't justsecondhand for them. It's not
very easy to adapt. You comefrom that engineering
(08:13):
background.
Where would you put yourself inthat field? An early adopter?
Someone that easily accessestechnology?
Dr. Aaron Reinke (08:20):
For sure. Early adopter. I think part of
my generation as well. Right? Igrew up in the age where
technology was reallyaccelerating quickly.
So, like, it was normal for meto be part of video games and to
be part of computer softwaresand instant messenger and see
how that was evolving andlearning how to evolve with it
versus, I know, colleagues evenfive, ten years older than
(08:41):
myself struggle because theydidn't have that kind of
evolutionary growth as they wentthrough their training. They
were really focused on adifferent piece. And so but, you
know, I have also found thatthere are several physicians who
are in their sixties who arephenomenal with technology. And
so, you know, there's there'ssuch a huge variety, and I think
(09:01):
it just plays to the strengthsof how someone thinks and what
they're into. And but it doesmake it challenging when you're
trying to implement a newtechnology or trying to get some
early adopters and lateadopters.
And even with, like, simplethings, not just AI, but just,
you know, regular use of an EMR.Right?
Daniel Williams (09:19):
I think
Dr. Aaron Reinke (09:19):
that can create some big challenges and
and we have to come up with somedifferent types of solutions for
every type of learner and andage gap there.
Daniel Williams (09:27):
Yeah. It's it's interesting. I'm kind of
sandwiched in. I've got parentswho are in their nineties who
think I'm a technology savant,and I've got a a daughter in
college who thinks I don't knowanything about technology. So
it's sometimes it's justperspective.
Right?
Dr. Aaron Reinke (09:42):
Yeah. I think what's so sad though is that,
like, if it's not your strengthRight. Medicine right now really
creates a huge administrativeburden. And so if it's not your
strength, then you are reallypunished in your in your ability
to to care for patients, notonly to get access to the
information to see them anddocument what you need to
document, but your life afterwork. It may be spent doing a
(10:06):
large majority of work becauseyou're just not as efficient,
and so you spend hours and hoursafter work.
And that, I think, contributesto, you know, physician burnout,
And we see that a lot with ourproviders. It's like AI will
really help with that for a lotof them and and just escalate
and improve their ability toutilize just the technology
(10:26):
instead of it being a burden.
Daniel Williams (10:28):
Yeah. Let's talk about that burden. That was
actually one of the nextquestions I wanted to ask you
about. We have seen studies.I've had interviews with
clinicians here on the on thepodcast about those
administrative burdens, people,physicians, and others in health
care being weighted down by EHRtasks.
So with that said, where haveyou seen technology in your
(10:51):
practice utilized to try tolessen some of those burdens?
Dr. Aaron Reinke (10:55):
Yeah. I think there are so many tools to doing
this right now, you know. Andwith Epic, at least, there's
quick actions and smart phrasesand smart tools, but you have to
be relatively sophisticated toput that all together to
actually save you time. Youknow, Dax Copilot, which is a
tool that we use Mhmm. As ascribe service, which is really
expanding even beyond scribing,that takes a lot less of it
(11:21):
takes a lot of the guessing gameout for a lot of providers, and
it it almost evens the playingfield as far as just trying to
get your documentation done in ain a faster time sense without a
lot of training.
Right? Like, when I do a lot ofactually advising with
physicians who struggle withtechnology and other hospital
systems, and so we'll spend alot of time teaching all these
(11:42):
different tools and trying tointegrate them all together, how
to use Dragon and automate allthese buttons, and there's a lot
of training to do that. And withDax Copilot, what's really nice
is you just say, hey. Just pressthis record button before and
then press it after. And within,you know, with a couple, I don't
know, maybe five minutes ofsetup, you can have them rocking
and rolling to dramaticallyreduce their their just typing
(12:04):
burden.
Right? They're still chickenpecking on the keyboard. Now
suddenly they can have athousand character HPI that
would have taken them an hour towrite or even dictate, and now
it's it's already done in a waythat's really well done and in a
way that's satisfactory for aphysician because doctors can be
picky on their documentation.And I think, you know, Dex
(12:25):
CoPilot has really pushed thethe envelope. They're really
leading on the quality of the ofthe HPI as well as the
assessment and the whole thewhole output is really
impressive.
But it's so plug and play forthem that it takes those
physicians who have really ahard time with technology and
just gives them this great toolthat they can plug and play
(12:47):
really easily.
Daniel Williams (12:48):
Yeah. And then when you have those
conversations with patientsabout Dragon or Dax Copilot, how
does that go? Because you weretalking about some patients may
be a little bit wary abouttechnology and and what that
might mean. So how do you havethat conversation and just ease
their Right. Any kind of stressthey may have?
Dr. Aaron Reinke (13:07):
Yeah. I think transparency is key. And the the
more I mean, even in the lastyear, the acceptance rate has
really gone way up becausepatients are more familiar with
it. They they're seeing it'sintegrated on their iPhone
already. They're seeing it inlots of places, and so they're
just more familiar with it.
I think familiarity is the keyto trust. And and then you just
(13:27):
have to have a few differentkind of phrases that you say.
Like, hey. You know, thisrecording is not kept for more
than so many days and havingsome your own expertise on, hey.
What's the safety on this?
What's the HIPAA compliance sothat you can reassure them, hey.
This isn't being tracked. It'snot going anywhere. This is to
make this interaction better foryou and me so that I can spend
(13:48):
more time with you, and I canactually look you in the eyes.
And almost everybody is on boardfor that.
Daniel Williams (13:53):
Yeah. For sure. Well, let's drill down then.
Tell us a success story where AIor workflow optimization has
measurably improved by usingthese different tools?
Dr. Aaron Reinke (14:05):
Yeah. I think one of I was thinking about this
the other day, which is one ofthe ways that we get behind and
your day can really get ruinedis say, I'm seeing 20 patients.
And on patient three, it's areally hard visit. Someone
brings up 10 extra problems, andand, you know, I try to have my
notes done after every singleencounter. And I know if I do
(14:26):
that, I can go home at 04:00that day or 05:00.
But if I don't do that, then I'mbehind the rest of the day, and
I can't get any of my notesdone. It's this weird
phenomenon. Any provider who'sseeing patients knows what I'm
talking about. What's nice aboutDex CoPilot and just any scribe
like, really good scribeservices, if you have that
really hard patient, then youdon't have to be burdened by, oh
(14:49):
my gosh. That note is gonna takeme so long to do, and then the
rest of the day is ruinedbecause it keeps up with you
every time, and so it justaccelerates that speed.
So for me, if I really justallow it to do its thing, then I
can continue to focus on on thepatient. And it helps you you
know, I have patients bring upall sorts of little things. Hey.
(15:12):
I've got this ingrown toenail.Hey.
I've got this rash. And I thinkthe other part is half the time,
I don't put that in the notebecause it's oh, it's you know,
hey. Just put that in Epsomsalts. It'll be fine. It's not
worth documenting, but we mightdocument a lot more pieces,
which helps us as a ruralhospital capture more, charge in
capability so that we can upcode and actually not up code
(15:34):
illegally, but to show whatwe're actually doing and get
credit for that.
And that helps us with ourreimbursement as well as a rural
facility that's alwaysstruggling financially. We can
help capture that stuff thatwe're doing for our patients. So
those two big pieces. Right?Getting us home earlier and
helping our revenue cycle hasbeen huge for us.
Daniel Williams (15:54):
Yeah. Now earlier, you mentioned that your
patients seem to be gettingadjusted or accustomed to AI and
Dragon and Dax Copilot. What aresome of the misconceptions then
about AI in health care, whetherit's from the patient
perspective or from yourcolleagues and your staff, how
(16:15):
they feel about it?
Dr. Aaron Reinke (16:17):
I think the big one is that AI is just gonna
take over. There's not gonna bewe don't I've seen a few
LinkedIn posts from otherdoctors that are like, hey. In
five years, we're not gonna haveprimary care anymore. We're just
gonna use AI. And to somedegree, I think there will be
some things that will go awayfrom primary care.
You know, people will use AI alot more to help their own self
(16:39):
diagnosis at home, sometimes forthe better, sometimes not. But I
think really what AI is gonna dois just take away the
administrative burden thatphysicians have and that
patients have and really help usget back to connecting with each
other where we actually can havetime to do what doctors wanna
do, which is to be a healer. Youwanna hold hands. You wanna sit
(17:00):
with people, pray with yourpatients. You wanna hug with
them and go through all theemotional connections that
people want and need becausethey, you know, they desperately
need that connection, and weneed that.
And that's what we went intomedicine for, not to do all the
administrative burdens that wehave. And so this is an
opportunity for technology totake that away and bring back
(17:21):
that human connection. Soironically, doctors have become
more robotic, and we're gonnahopefully use the AI to let us
be less robotic.
Daniel Williams (17:29):
I love that. That is a great way to to say
that. Let's talk about thosepractices. Maybe they're
listening right now to thisconversation. They're not the
early adopter to AI.
Maybe they do a little bit, butthey're just not fully on board.
What would you say to them thatthis is what adoption may look
like? Let's not worry about thatoverwhelm. This is how we just
(17:52):
utilize this and use some bestpractices to use AI to the best
effect possible.
Dr. Aaron Reinke (17:58):
I think it would always help to have
somebody hold your hand throughit a little bit. So if you have
an early adopter in your programwho has been able to pilot
something or get themsomething's going and they have
another person who's a lateadopter who's really struggling
with technology, doing one onone time with them to show them
the tips and tricks that workfor them, I think that speaks
(18:19):
volumes, and it gets them wherethey need to go way faster.
Because if you just say, hey. Wesigned you up for this new AI
service to a person who's reallynot comfortable with technology.
They're not they're gonnaabandon it faster because
they're not gonna reallyunderstand it.
And especially something as easyas, like, the Axe Code pilot,
which is as bad as easy as youcould get it for plug and play.
(18:42):
If you need to have that person,whether that's a technologist
or, you know, an informaticistor just another physician, there
has to be a little bit ofhandholding and investment in
that and say, hey. We need tohave somebody coming back
around, checking in, doing that.And then it won't be so scary
because you have somebody therewho can kinda show you, hey.
This is how it's really impactedmy life and how I know your
(19:04):
practice style and what you willlike and won't like because not
everyone uses it the same.
You know? I found a lot oftechnology when I'm I say, hey.
You know, if you're a reallyhigh user, we'll do all these
really cool things, and that'llbe awesome. And for some people,
they're just trying to get pastthe the chicken pecking on the
keyboard to so that their MAisn't writing everything for
(19:24):
them or putting in everythingfor them. They can kinda
streamline this one piece.
And so take it slow and and andjust try to modify for the
person what the next step is. SoI don't they don't have to be
the savant on on Epic. They cantake that next step.
Daniel Williams (19:40):
Okay. Last question then. We've been
talking about where AI is rightnow in that physician patient
relationship. Just looking alittle bit into the future,
where do you see it going? Howdo you see it helping grow and
foster those physician andpatient relationships?
Dr. Aaron Reinke (19:58):
Well, think the the hope for me is that one
day we'll be able to take youknow, one thing a physician does
is that they they click allthrough the chart and they have
to collect they have to be thethe data gatherer. And they they
gather all the data about heartfailure, all the data about
diabetes, and then they put ittogether into the synopsis. And
(20:20):
it's ninety five percent of thetime collecting information and
5% thinking about it. And I'mhoping that we can get to the AI
integrates with the patientinformation and chart, collects
that, puts together for thephysician, and then you can
really spend a a majority ofyour time connecting with people
again. And like I talked aboutbefore, being a healer is so
(20:42):
important for most doctors.
And just as humans, right, weall wanna connect with each
other. It's in one of the mostvulnerable times in your life
when you go to a doctor and youshare something that you're
struggling with. Maybe it's arelationship with your spouse or
maybe it's just your shameregarding your weight or
whatever it is. It's such avulnerable time. And if the
(21:03):
physician's just staring at ascreen typing, there's nothing
more defeating than that.
But instead, if we can say, hey.Listen. We are we can take that
burden away. You don't have tothink and worry about that.
Let's focus on connecting ashumans.
Then I think, you know, we'renot treating a disease anymore.
We're not treating a problem ona problem list. We're treating a
person, and that's the goal.
Daniel Williams (21:24):
Yeah. Yeah. I love that. So doctor Aaron
Reinke, thank you so much forjoining us on the MGMA Business
Solutions Podcast today.
Dr. Aaron Reinke (21:32):
Thank you so much for having me. It was a
pleasure.
Daniel Williams (21:35):
Yeah. So for everybody listening, if you
wanna learn more about MicrosoftDragon Copilot, be sure to visit
aka.ms/healthcarefuture. I willput that in the episode show
notes as well, so you can justclick right through to it to
learn more. And I wanna thankall of you for tuning in to the
MGMA Business Solutions Podcast.Until next time, take care and
(21:58):
be well.
Popular Podcasts
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
Ridiculous History
History is beautiful, brutal and, often, ridiculous. Join Ben Bowlin and Noel Brown as they dive into some of the weirdest stories from across the span of human civilization in Ridiculous History, a podcast by iHeartRadio.