March 3, 2025 • 33 mins
In this episode of the Women in Healthcare podcast, host Adrienne Lloyd talks with Kripa Krishnan, Vice President of Operations at Northwestern Memorial Healthcare. They discuss Kripa's extensive career journey from public health to executive leadership, the importance of mentorship and sponsorship, and how to find and utilize your strengths in leadership roles. Kripa shares personal anecdotes about the challenges she faced as a woman of color in executive positions and offers practical advice on maintaining authentic leadership in varying organizational cultures. The conversation also touches on building strong partnerships with physicians and balancing empathy with tough decision-making in healthcare.
00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:36 Kripa Krishnan's Career Journey
03:25 The Importance of Sponsorship Over Mentorship
11:01 Navigating Executive Presence and Authentic Leadership
22:30 Challenges and Advice for Women of Color in Leadership
27:23 Building Strong Physician Partnerships
30:31 Final Thoughts and Career Advice
Resources:
Connect with Adrienne on LinkedIn
Connect with Kripa on LinkedIn
JAMA Study: Representation of Women in the Leadership Structure of the US Health Care System
To see other episodes of the Women in Healthcare Podcast, watch the video versions on YouTube, or apply to be on an upcoming episode, please visit https://bit.ly/womeninhealthcarepodcast
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Adrienne Lloyd (00:06):
Hello everyone. And welcome to the latest
episode of the Women inHealthcare podcast with Medical
Group Management Association. Myname is Adrienne Lloyd and I am
your host, and I'm very happy tobe here today with Kirpa
Krishnan, who I have known forfifteen years or so
Kripa Krishnan (00:20):
now, I think. I don't wanna know. Oh, I think
more than that. Maybe more.
Adrienne Lloyd (00:24):
And, so she and I first worked together when we
were at Mayo Clinic, and she iscurrently, in executive role at
Northwestern, Medical Center inChicago where she has been there
for a while. And, Kripa, justthank you so much for being
here. I'd love for you to justtell us a little bit more about
kinda your journey so far.
Kripa Krishnan (00:40):
Thanks, Adrienne. Thanks for having me.
It's my first it's my firstpodcast.
Adrienne Lloyd (00:44):
So Yay. Fantastic. We'll go easy on you.
Kripa Krishnan (00:47):
Yeah. Please do. Yeah. So, happy to be here. Just
a little bit about myself.
I'm currently a vice presidentof operations at Northwestern
Memorial Health Care in Chicago,Illinois. So I started my health
care, journey actually incollege, finding out about
public health and pivoting atthat time from a pre med track,
(01:11):
exploring more of the publichealth realm, thinking about how
careers in which there's anopportunity to really affect the
health of communities andpopulations on a large scale.
After college, I did aninternship program, health
careers connection, which I'mactually still involved with. I
actually take interns now out ofthat program, but, connected
(01:34):
with Kaiser Permanente inNorthern California and just
really set me in a trajectory ofhealth care administration. So I
I did my master's at ColumbiaUniversity, master's in public
health in health careadministration and policy, did
my administrative fellowship atMayo Clinic based in Arizona.
And after the fellowship workedin in medicine and surgical
(01:57):
areas. And then for largelydriven by personal reasons,
wanted to relocate to Chicago,got connected to leaders at
Northwestern. Started my careerthere about ten years ago as a
director and divisionadministrator, blending under
the clinical operation side withthe academic operation side,
(02:18):
similar to what I was doing inat Mayo Clinic. And have had a
great, great opportunities atNorthwestern to explore more of
the clinical operation, more ofthe academic operation space.
And now in my current role, Ihave accountability for the
department of medicine.
So all the specialties withinmedicine in terms of the
(02:39):
academic research education andfaculty affairs portfolio. And
then from the clinical operationside, much of the clinical areas
that don't otherwise roll into aservice line, although I do have
the digestive health serviceline, medical specialty, wings,
general internal medicine, andgeriatrics. And then we are,
opening up a new multi specialtysite in the Bronzeville
(03:02):
neighborhood of Chicago and,that will also be part of my
operations portfolio. I shouldsay it, again, sounds like a
lot, but it's it's it's a team.It's always a team effort, and
I'm only as as good as all ofthe people I work with.
So
Adrienne Lloyd (03:17):
I know. Very lucky to have you. But I'd love
to talk love to start off. Youyou and I were able to have a
conversation before we jumped onlive, and we talked about really
sponsorship and mentorship. Andjust overall, obviously, your
career has evolved as verysuccessfully and you have a very
large role.
But, could you tell us a littlebit, like, your thoughts on the
importance of sponsorship overmentorship, particularly around
(03:39):
helping your career in advance?And is maybe there a time when
having a sponsor made, you know,a big difference for you
throughout your career?
Kripa Krishnan (03:47):
Yeah. For sure. I appreciate you asking a
question because I think there'sI do try to talk to health
leaders and and those who reachout to me about this because I
think we we talk a lot aboutmentorship, and I think there's
a good understanding about whatthat means, and could range from
a just cough get coffee with youonce in a while or a ping me for
(04:10):
advice. But I do try to talk topeople about the difference
between that and sponsorshipbecause a sponsor is really
someone to me who's going to whoknows your work, who knows your
strengths and your skills. Andimportantly is going to be
saying your name in the roomwhen you're not there.
(04:32):
Right? Really helping to thebest advocates for your work is
is not in your value are otherpeople. And those don't
necessarily have to be folks whoare in leadership roles or a
higher level job title. It couldcan be the the people in your
network to say, Adrian is thebest operator I've ever worked
(04:54):
with. And and that can really goa long way.
And I think that, sometimespeople confuse the two because I
do think there's a lot of peoplethat I meet with and they'll
reach out and say, I'm applyingfor this job. And I think it's I
think that's great. And I think,I can certainly give, folks my
(05:15):
opinion about what kind of thejob is and what you know, how to
position yourself. But when itcomes to advocating for that
person to get that job or thatnext level role, that's where
you really need a sponsor. Like,you need the the people who know
your work.
And so for me, I credit a lot ofthe opportunities I've had to
(05:36):
the sponsors in my careerbecause, again, and those have
been the people I've worked forlike you and others because
they've, again, at a base level,and I do tell this to everyone,
you have to be focused on yourjob and be good at what you do.
And then those are the folksthat you work with and for are
gonna say your name in the role.And I think exposure can come
(06:00):
through your sponsors too. Andyou may not be in meetings or in
conversations with the CEO, butyour sponsor is nice, and
they're the ones who are gonnabe saying your name to the CEO.
And that's where the power ofsponsors helps you gain that
exposure.
And I think it's double axingyour your exposure, if you will,
(06:21):
because it's someone elsepraising you.
Adrienne Lloyd (06:23):
And I think just to go off on the exposure
tangent, I agree. I think that'swhere whatever generation people
are aren't I don't necessarilydial into classifying in that
way. But I do think that and youand I both went through the
fellowship at Mayo, and I knowmany other colleagues who've
gone through fellowships orresidencies after their their
masters or even during theirmaster's programs for
(06:45):
internships and so forth. Andwhat was great about some of
those programs was being able tobe at the bigger tables. And I
know it sometimes kinda feltlike a kind of takeaway as you
shifted into the regular roleswhere you weren't then engaged.
But I think exposure can be,just as she said, learning from
those who are in the rooms forthose conversations. And other
times it's finding so thosemaybe not so glamorous roles or
(07:08):
ways that you can participate atin those initiatives or other
things that are valuable to theorganization, perhaps outside of
what you're doing. But it mightnot be as a lead. It may be as
a, hey, can I help you as aproject manager? Can I help with
a subgroup on this committeetask force initiative?
And I think some of those thingstoo are are great conversations
to have with a sponsor or and ormentor along the way. Yeah.
Kripa Krishnan (07:29):
And I think mentors can become sponsors.
It's not I don't think it's apurely binary thing. And I agree
with you. Like, this is a lot ofwhat I talk to fellows about as
they're leaving a fellowship andeven in early career. It's just
as important, I think, and maybeeven more so depending on the
situation of who you're workingwith and potentially for early
(07:50):
in your career rather than thetitle or the exact job
description because there'salways gonna be for and and we
know this for people who havebeen on our teams or worked with
really great people who arereally great at their jobs.
There's lots of opportunity andbandwidth within a certain job
description to get more involvedor do other things or start to
(08:12):
grow. And the right leaders canhelp you do that in the job that
you have and help set you up forthe next the next thing. I don't
think there has to be a apreference to have to be in
operations for diversity. I'vemet CEOs who started in HR, and
that's it's it's all about kindof, I think, the experience
(08:33):
doing well at what you do andand connecting with kind of the
the right people.
Adrienne Lloyd (08:39):
Absolutely. What advice would you give women in
health care or other or we havesome male audience too as this
sometimes will cross post to theleadership podcast as well. But
what advice would you give ingeneral for people who are
looking for sponsorship in theirorganizations or beyond?
Kripa Krishnan (08:56):
Yeah. I think I don't wanna sound too much
repeating, but the like, at thebase level, you really have to
focus on the job that you haveand doing well at what you do.
That's a little bit might needthose two. I'm not, I'm not
necessarily or haven'tnecessarily been a self
promoter, but I think good workspeaks for itself to some
(09:18):
extent. And that's notdiscounting the benefit
networking and doing all ofthose things are also can also
be pretty critical depending onyour situation.
But I think that or or or womenleaders really going out and
seeing in your organization oreven outside of your
organization, who do you admire?Who do you who would you like to
(09:43):
who who represents maybe some ofyour own leadership, like, ethos
or style.
Adrienne Lloyd (09:50):
Yeah.
Kripa Krishnan (09:50):
I do think that but I also think too reaching
out to male leaders and maybeleaders who you would like to
emulate as well is a goodopportunity. I do think
sometimes you can get caught ina trap of maybe trap's not the
right word, but reaching femalesreaching out to females and
males are reaching out to males,and then we're perpetuating that
(10:12):
potentially perpetuating acritical that that doesn't help
any of us. I think that all ofthat is is important to do.
Adrienne Lloyd (10:20):
Yeah. No, I agree. And I think it's really
finding people that you connectwith too. And whether you
connect on the work or the rolethat they have, there might be
something that you want orsomething that you're interested
in. It may also be someone whoyou really just feel commonality
with.
And but I I agree. I thinkcontinuing to really find others
outside your direct role thatyou connect with and can help
give you a different perspectiveis so key.
Kripa Krishnan (10:40):
And I think having them introduce you too.
Because, again, if there is aleader that you connect with
well and I'm still, I think,trying to do this myself, but
ask them, who do you think Ishould connect with? Because
they can also have some reallygood insight into what what
avenues you might want toexplore.
Adrienne Lloyd (10:59):
Yeah. Absolutely. So one of the other
things as we talked aboutbefore, one of the things we
talked about was just being anauthentic leader and, like,
really anchoring into, as yousaid, like, how you want to lead
your leadership style and whatfeels. Obviously, we all wanna
continue to evolve ourleadership style and get better
and be more adaptable and all ofthose things. But what feels
that leadership style andauthentic style that really
(11:20):
feels true to to you and who youare and how you know that you
can serve.
And you've held some reallyprestigious roles across
Northwestern and, medicine andMayo Clinic. How have you
navigated being an authenticleader while really with these
various organizational cultures?And I'm sure Northwestern looks
even different today than it didwhen you started ten years ago.
So how have you kind ofnavigated those shifts?
Kripa Krishnan (11:43):
It's certainly been a work in progress, I
think, and I have builtconfidence over the years in
settling into what my strengthsare as a leader, as opposed to
trying to emulate maybe astereotypical or what I thought
was a stereotypical version ofwhat a leader should be me. I
(12:06):
I'm by nature an introvert. I aman analytic person. And I, for a
long time, thought that I neededto balance that by being too
much in one or the otherdirection. And I think over
time, realize that, yes, likeall of us, we have our
communication styles andpersonality types that we're
(12:29):
most comfortable in, and we haveto start to adapt when we're
working with different teams anddifferent individuals.
But ultimately, the things thatwill give you more confidence
and also show your show yourvalue within your role or to the
organization is when you leaninto those strengths. And I
think that that's really beenthe learning progress for me,
(12:50):
and I haven't always been thebest sort of impromptu speaker
or presenter. I have to it's oneof the areas, like, I have to
practice clarity and brevity inmy in my presentations and my
answers, and, hopefully, I'mdoing that okay on this podcast.
(13:10):
Great. Okay.
We'll see after it's done. Butthen I know I'm very good in my
writing abilities. So and I'mgood writer, and I do my best
communication for writing. Sothen you start to lean into
that. So after the meeting, if Ifeel like I didn't make my point
or communicate more clearly, Ican send a follow-up note.
(13:33):
I have a little bit more time. Ihave a way to fully craft what I
need to craft and do that. Andor I'll try to figure out ways
where I can, either before themeeting or after the meeting,
really double down on my pointthat in the in the communication
style that I'm most comfortableor know that I'm strong at.
Which, of course, doesn't meanI'm not constantly working on
(13:54):
those other areas. But thoseare, I think, some ways that you
can help to build thatconfidence and then also
continue to contribute andprovide value.
Adrienne Lloyd (14:03):
No. I love that. And I think that's one of the
things I've probably talked onthe podcast over over time too
about, but that was reallyhelpful for me where I I feel
like I'm really great inconversation, one on one, even
presentations. Although I getnervous, and I do need to have
kind of information organized ina a way I'm going to be able to
speak to it so that my my braincan follow itself. But writing
(14:24):
is something that I've Iinitially just real I knew it
always was something that tookme more mental energy.
It would take me more time. Iprocrastinated the heck out of
it. And so finding I know whenyou and I first started working
together and you were like, Ireally love the writing piece.
It was like, okay. Fine.
Fantastic. Could you draft x, y,or z communication? And then we
can walk through it because it'seasier for me to respond to
something and edit. And I thinkthat's who, as leaders, we can
(14:47):
often take on trying to beeverything to everyone and be
great at everything. And thereis a base level, as you said,
of, you've gotta be a strongenough, you know, presenter
depending on and the roles thatyou have.
Of course, you've gotta be ableto get your point across in
these meetings, but alsorecognizing that you can
complement that in another wayso that there's not as much
(15:08):
stress that you're placing onyourself in those, you know,
confined moments of thepresentation to for that to be
like, okay. If I don't get thisright, then the project's not
gonna go through. Somebody'sgonna get offended. There's a
way to counter that with thosepieces, and I love that that's
something that you've navigatedinto. Yeah.
Yeah.
Kripa Krishnan (15:28):
For sure. And I think I like the point you
brought up too, that lean onyour teams and your colleagues
because I think, again, it'severything we do is a team
sport, and that's where if youcan if you know where your
team's strengths are, you canhelp lean on look to the right
(15:49):
people and lean on theirstrengths to to do those types
of things.
Adrienne Lloyd (15:53):
No. I agree. I agree. One of the things that I
know you mentioned, theintroverted leader, and I think
I am I'm, like, right on theintroverted extroverted side,
probably more I than esometimes. But I think it's hard
at both feeling that way,feeling introverted, feeling
also female, feeling on theyounger side, at least when we
all both started in the healthcare, industry, maybe
Kripa Krishnan (16:14):
I don't know.
Adrienne Lloyd (16:15):
Now. Not as much now, but I plus years later,
here we are. But what did youfind was really helpful in
developing your executivepresence, or what are some
thoughts that you wouldrecommend for new leaders or
leaders who are moving in maybemid career, but moving into new
roles, like, and shifting, andwanting to increase how they're
perceived and how they're ableto create an impact in that way.
Kripa Krishnan (16:38):
Mhmm. Yeah. I mean, it's, I think it's
multifactorial. Certainly what Italked about before about
leaning into your strengths isimportant because it helps build
confidence. I think asintroverted leaders and whether
this is a particular femaletrait or not, And we know some
of the research shows that thefor example, going for that job,
(17:02):
women tend not to go for the jobunless they check all the boxes
of
Adrienne Lloyd (17:08):
Requirements. Right.
Kripa Krishnan (17:09):
And men tend to shoot their shot on what? But
I'll take I'll take a swing.Yeah. And I think that's one
area too. There's there'sbasically no job that I'd taken.
That was the kind of next levelup that I felt I was that I
personally felt I was ready for,but I had the sponsors and
(17:30):
mentors around me that said goforward and gave me that
guidance. And I think havingthose trainers, not just in the
professional realm, but also inthe personal realm to really
help help you have a differentview of yourself than you mind.
And I think that's and thismight also be talking about
(17:50):
generation generational thing,millennial thing. I'm an
Adrienne Lloyd (17:54):
ever
Kripa Krishnan (17:54):
older millennial. And I have to I'm
I'm very much a feedback person.So I think that also helps me
say, what do you think mystrengths are? How do you what
am I doing well? And that canalso give you insights that you
wouldn't actually give giveyourself.
And then I think as you grow inyour career, you get more
(18:15):
confident, certainly, I had inunderstanding what those are
and, again, leaning into those.
Adrienne Lloyd (18:21):
Yeah. Yeah. No. I agree. And I I often think of
the and I'm gonna I'm not evengonna try to say who said it,
but, you know, all that we arethe average of the five people
we spend the most time with.
I think that really is true, andthat's something that I try to
do from time to time too. Andfor me, I have friends all over
the country, so it's notnecessarily those people I get
to spend the most time with. Butif I think about those people if
(18:43):
I think about the next level andwhere I wanna be in my career,
in my life, like looking aroundand saying, do I have people
that are exhibiting thosetraits, that are doing those
things that I can go to not onlyfor input, support, advice, but
also inspiration? And I thinkthat's something as you're
moving through your leadershipcareer, through your career in
(19:04):
health care to who are who doyou want to pull into your world
or move into their world so thatyou're absorbing some of either
their knowledge or energyinsights and so forth. I think
that really, makes a hugedifference.
Kripa Krishnan (19:18):
Yeah. For sure. I it's interesting just thinking
about because I know yourquestion was about developing
the executive best. And I and Ithink I have a no. It's but I
was just thinking about becauseI was like, did I answer that
question?
I think I I feel like I have Ialso have a complicated
relationship with the the termexecutive presence because very
(19:40):
early on in my career, I knowone of the the areas of my
evaluations for opportunity forimprovement, basically, was this
idea, the work on your executivepresence. And there's there I
understand some of that in termsof I was very quiet. Not to say
I'm still not quiet, but insome, avenues. But I do think
(20:03):
sometimes it's coded for femaleleaders. It's coded on when you
don't look the right way, youdon't sound the right way.
You're not as
Adrienne Lloyd (20:14):
Very nice. Bright. Yeah.
Kripa Krishnan (20:15):
You don't have to even at the right thing.
That's where I try to balance alittle bit. And it's like all
things, it's not a blanketstatement, but I I do always
wanna make sure I'm I am amencouraging others to more
thoughtfully analyze feedbackaround executive presence when
(20:35):
that's given us a area for Matt.
Adrienne Lloyd (20:38):
Yeah. I'm getting, like, a a set of images
flashing through my mind, right,when you hear the word executive
presence. And I agree, like,what I twenty years ago, brand
new to the industry, to therole, like, you hear that word
and but having been in somewhatformal organizations in my
career too, there's a whole,like, physical appearance where
they show that and there's agender and age classification
(21:01):
that at least initially wouldhave come to my mind when I
thought about those things. Andnow the images that flash
through my mind are the range ofexecutive leaders that I know in
all shapes, colors, and sizespresenting and handling
themselves in so many differentways. And I think that's I love
that.
I love that. Like, how do wedefine executive presence? And
(21:22):
it's really should be the impactand connection with your teams
and influence, not anythingbeyond that.
Kripa Krishnan (21:29):
Good point. Yeah. And I think almost
ironically, when you see the thethose visions flash flash what
it should be, but thenironically, you that you have
more executive presence if youlean more into your own
authentic leadership. Yeah.Like, that's actually what gives
(21:50):
you opportunity to presence.
So it's, again, acounterintuitive type of, idea.
But
Adrienne Lloyd (21:58):
No. I think it is. I think if the parts I love
about executive presence, Ithink, are that ability to hold
the space for various thoughts,being calm and chaos, being able
to unify the team around thegoals and navigate through the
different perspectives to thelike core root of the issue or
the core direction forward. AndI think that's the more that you
(22:20):
are able to center yourself andunderstand yourself and how you
can and wanna function as aleader, I think the easier it is
for for that to happen. And Iknow one of the other things we
talked about is, you know, withbeing a woman of color in the
executive leadership, what aresome of the barriers that you've
encountered and how how wouldyou what advice might you give
for other kind of women of colornavigating the complexities of
(22:44):
leadership in in health care?
Kripa Krishnan (22:46):
Yeah. And I I think it's an and I I occupy, I
think, an interesting space tobecome Salvation and in the
health care space, I'm morelikely to be mistaken for a
position than than somethingelse. And I and other women of
color who are not Salvation andactually both talked with and
(23:09):
are friends with many womenleaders who, you know, the miss
the mis to be mistaken forsomething else that's not as
potentially Llamorous asadministrative. As be as being
as being the same per positionis different. So I I am
cognizant that I I there'sthere's inherent privilege
within within this category ofwomen of color that I occupy.
(23:33):
That said, I'm not I have notbeen immune to some of those
bear barriers that exist. I'vehad, many I shouldn't say many.
I've had experiences that havehave made me think about whether
it's my job to make the otherperson comfortable with what you
(23:55):
just said or keep themuncomfortable if they've made a
comment about I think I told youabout a situation that we were,
I think, talking about at thetime offshoring opportunities
for I I can't even remember whatthe m said it was, scheduling or
call center or something. And anindividual in that meeting
(24:19):
looked at me and or I thinksomeone said, oh, you know, they
do this in India now. And thensomeone looked over at me and
said, Kripa, do you know anyone?
Which I think was meant to be ajoke. It's clearly it it was
very uncomfortable. And I thinkin the moment I had to figure
out what I had to instead of orin terms of laugh at us, which
(24:40):
helps the other person feel morecomfortable, but that is doesn't
quite have the compactive,helping them understand that was
not an appropriate comment. Soin the moment I did, I was
quiet, but I didn't laugh. And Ithink given that I think his
facial expressions, he thoughtthat was not that made me
uncomfortable and I think madeeveryone in the room
uncomfortable.
(25:00):
And I think that's it's the samesort of theory around or the,
process around microaggressionsand just things that, you know,
that that we have to navigatewhether you're a leader or not.
But certainly it's becomes alittle bit more difficult when
you're a leader and it's comingfrom other senior leaders that
(25:21):
are in charge of your sort offate or or otherwise. And so I
think, like, talking about it isuseful. I think with having a
group of individuals that youcan you can process through
these things and thinking about,like, how you conduct yourself
in those situations is a bit ofa fraught topic that I think
it's something that I alwaysencourage to be prepared for
(25:43):
certainly. Yeah.
Adrienne Lloyd (25:45):
No. I appreciate you sharing that. I think that's
yeah. Having a group that youcan you talk to and be like,
this happened. Don't know evenknow how to feel about it.
Like, I don't know how to feelabout this and having that those
sounding boards to help you talkthrough it and think through it
and know what or if you need todo differently.
Kripa Krishnan (26:02):
I've had experiences in my career where,
again, some of my sponsors havebeen white men have been great
advocates for me and stepped inin a way I didn't have to. I
think I had a there was a vendoronce that reached out and it was
sort it was a very oddstatement, but the email said
(26:23):
something like, what does a guylike me what can a guy like me
do for a woman like you? And andit was some, like, it was some
vendor thing. And I was like,half joking, but half like, what
is going on? And I remember myVP at the time got very
basically made sure that thatvendor was appropriately
(26:46):
counseled.
And then basically we're not,we're either not gonna deal with
you particularly or companyagain. And so those are the
kinds of things that make mefeel that helps feel supported
and we should all be doing forour teams for sure.
Adrienne Lloyd (27:00):
I agree. I agree. I think those are so
important. What one of the otherthings we talked about and, you
know, you and I grew both grewup with at at Museo of Denzio. I
grew up at Mayo, if that feelsthat way.
But really relax. Working withphysicians, which was one of the
things I truly adored about allthe careers that I've had, but
it's that physician partnership,but it was just such a strong
(27:21):
kind of presence at Mayo. Butwhat as you've navigated some of
those more challengingconversations or even
potentially challengingpartnerships with physicians or
otherwise, but, I do feel likeconnecting with our physician
colleagues is often a differentconversation or nuance to that
conversation as we're partneringwith them. What have you found
to be the most helpful in inthose conversations and
(27:43):
relationships in general?
Kripa Krishnan (27:44):
Yeah. I think that I think the the longer I've
been in this space, the thebetter I and or I I think the
better we all get atunderstanding where people are
coming from. So that's not justwhat their own ethos is, but
also their their theirstrengths, their areas for
(28:07):
opportunity. I mean, we getbetter at knowing that about
ourselves, but also others. AndI think that's one of the key
opportunity areas when you're inyou're the an administrator and
kind of a physicianadministrative partnership dyad,
because it's recognizing whateveryone brings to the table.
(28:29):
And over the years, you and I,we've we've worked with all
different people, all differentphysician leaders, and all all
different one of those aredifferent people. So they'll
have their communication's gutstyle, their way of their
preferred way of doing things.And I think as administrators,
we have to kind of understandhow to dial up or dial down
(28:54):
certain aspects of ourpersonality or skillset to help
bring that kind of balance to tothat partnership. I've worked
with physician leaders whoreally don't like to have
difficult conversations. It'sjust an uncomfortable space for
them.
And then I'd have to be the oneto come in and, and to give the
hard news or be, be direct onbehalf of that position leader
(29:19):
and vice versa. I've worked withleaders who will run towards
this conflict because theyreally like to be. And that's so
then I then my role is a littlebit coming in and being this
sort of softer suit soothessoothes thing.
Adrienne Lloyd (29:35):
Why do you need those shifts? And this is the
yes.
Kripa Krishnan (29:38):
And I think that, again, not and this is
just, like, this point in ourcareer, how many of these, like,
personality tests have we done.Right? Like, it's what's your
communication style? What's yourpersonality? You learn that
there's not right or wrongcommunication styles or
personality styles.
It's just what the situationcalls for. Yeah. And that's
(29:58):
where that's actually where Ithink some of the opportunities
and power comes in with dyads isbecause you have that much more
that much more tools in the toolchest, if you will, to be able
to get things done.
Adrienne Lloyd (30:13):
Oh, I love that was goes into something that we
talked about too, which isreally balancing being
empathetic while making thosetough decisions, in challenging
environments. And and really, Ithink, anchoring that in, as you
said, to your personality, andthose conflict management styles
and recognizing that back toothers. And, oh, I so appreciate
you coming today. Let's wrapeverything up. As you look back
(30:33):
over your your career, yourjourney, is there any piece of
advice that you wish you wouldhave received maybe earlier on,
or is there any takeaway thatyou'd like to leave the
listeners with as they navigatetheir own paths?
Kripa Krishnan (30:47):
Yeah. It's a good question. I feel like maybe
I've covered it already, so notto repeat myself. But
ultimately, I do think early inyour career, if I were to look
back at myself and to talk totalk to myself, a, to say it
will all work out. So you dothink that, especially if you're
in a fellowship and coming outof a fellowship, it's like you
(31:07):
always I always tell, fellowsthat because you're always
worried about that first job.
And I think, I remember youactually telling me this because
I was so worried about my firstjob and you're like, it's it'll
all work out. And I didn'tbelieve you. And any everyone I
talk to, they don't believe meeither. And then it all works
out. But I do think that's truefor, for careers too, where
(31:28):
ultimately, you know, staygrounded, be good at the job
you're doing, do your best atthe role you're doing, be
confident, bill be confident inyour own authentic leadership
style and wearing your strengthsand find those people who are
gonna be in your corner and thatyou can learn from and help
(31:50):
support.
And, hopefully, they willsupport you in your career too.
Adrienne Lloyd (31:54):
I love that. Yeah. I think there's just such
pressure. And it not only atearly career, I think throughout
our careers, we place suchpressure on ourselves around who
and what we will or what wecome. And I think when we can
anchor into what feels true forus today and what we want, maybe
tomorrow or three tomorrows fromnow, but not having to put such
(32:14):
pressure on the kind of thefinal product, the final
outcome.
It just allows space for us tonavigate the world that is
health care, us, and and change.And
Kripa Krishnan (32:25):
Yeah. The and there's a balance. I don't want
to say, just be great in yourjob, and there's no don't take
don't take charge of yourdestiny. And then there's the
other end of the spectrum, whichis you're constantly networking
and trying to makerelationships, but they need
more as focused on your own job.And Yeah.
Both things are not you have tofind that happening kind of
medium, I think.
Adrienne Lloyd (32:46):
Yeah. Focus and, yes, putting in the effort,
creating those connections andsponsors. I think that's a great
some great tidbits. And so Ireally appreciate your time.
And, thank you so much for beingwith us today.
And maybe we'll have you backone day as we navigate these
other topics, but I reallyappreciate it, Akarba.
Kripa Krishnan (33:05):
Thank you so much for having me. It was a fun
experience. I hope it turns up.You survived. I did.
Adrienne Lloyd (33:10):
And now you won't.
Kripa Krishnan (33:11):
And I I thank you because you've been a mentor
and a sponsor in my career and aand a good friend. And you're
you're my hashtag goals too. Sofor a career perspective. So,
Adrienne Lloyd (33:23):
it's easy to be sponsors when you've got people
who are working really hard anddoing the right things as they
grow.
Kripa Krishnan (33:28):
So Well, thanks for having me.
Adrienne Lloyd (33:29):
It was fun. Absolutely. Thank you so much.
Kripa Krishnan (33:31):
Alright. Talk to you soon. K.
Hello everyone. And welcome to the latest
episode of the Women inHealthcare podcast with Medical
Group Management Association. Myname is Adrienne Lloyd and I am
your host, and I'm very happy tobe here today with Kirpa
Krishnan, who I have known forfifteen years or so
Kripa Krishnan (00:20):
now, I think. I don't wanna know. Oh, I think
more than that. Maybe more.
Adrienne Lloyd (00:24):
And, so she and I first worked together when we
were at Mayo Clinic, and she iscurrently, in executive role at
Northwestern, Medical Center inChicago where she has been there
for a while. And, Kripa, justthank you so much for being
here. I'd love for you to justtell us a little bit more about
kinda your journey so far.
Kripa Krishnan (00:40):
Thanks, Adrienne. Thanks for having me.
It's my first it's my firstpodcast.
Adrienne Lloyd (00:44):
So Yay. Fantastic. We'll go easy on you.
Kripa Krishnan (00:47):
Yeah. Please do. Yeah. So, happy to be here. Just
a little bit about myself.
I'm currently a vice presidentof operations at Northwestern
Memorial Health Care in Chicago,Illinois. So I started my health
care, journey actually incollege, finding out about
public health and pivoting atthat time from a pre med track,
(01:11):
exploring more of the publichealth realm, thinking about how
careers in which there's anopportunity to really affect the
health of communities andpopulations on a large scale.
After college, I did aninternship program, health
careers connection, which I'mactually still involved with. I
actually take interns now out ofthat program, but, connected
(01:34):
with Kaiser Permanente inNorthern California and just
really set me in a trajectory ofhealth care administration. So I
I did my master's at ColumbiaUniversity, master's in public
health in health careadministration and policy, did
my administrative fellowship atMayo Clinic based in Arizona.
And after the fellowship workedin in medicine and surgical
(01:57):
areas. And then for largelydriven by personal reasons,
wanted to relocate to Chicago,got connected to leaders at
Northwestern. Started my careerthere about ten years ago as a
director and divisionadministrator, blending under
the clinical operation side withthe academic operation side,
(02:18):
similar to what I was doing inat Mayo Clinic. And have had a
great, great opportunities atNorthwestern to explore more of
the clinical operation, more ofthe academic operation space.
And now in my current role, Ihave accountability for the
department of medicine.
So all the specialties withinmedicine in terms of the
(02:39):
academic research education andfaculty affairs portfolio. And
then from the clinical operationside, much of the clinical areas
that don't otherwise roll into aservice line, although I do have
the digestive health serviceline, medical specialty, wings,
general internal medicine, andgeriatrics. And then we are,
opening up a new multi specialtysite in the Bronzeville
(03:02):
neighborhood of Chicago and,that will also be part of my
operations portfolio. I shouldsay it, again, sounds like a
lot, but it's it's it's a team.It's always a team effort, and
I'm only as as good as all ofthe people I work with.
So
Adrienne Lloyd (03:17):
I know. Very lucky to have you. But I'd love
to talk love to start off. Youyou and I were able to have a
conversation before we jumped onlive, and we talked about really
sponsorship and mentorship. Andjust overall, obviously, your
career has evolved as verysuccessfully and you have a very
large role.
But, could you tell us a littlebit, like, your thoughts on the
importance of sponsorship overmentorship, particularly around
(03:39):
helping your career in advance?And is maybe there a time when
having a sponsor made, you know,a big difference for you
throughout your career?
Kripa Krishnan (03:47):
Yeah. For sure. I appreciate you asking a
question because I think there'sI do try to talk to health
leaders and and those who reachout to me about this because I
think we we talk a lot aboutmentorship, and I think there's
a good understanding about whatthat means, and could range from
a just cough get coffee with youonce in a while or a ping me for
(04:10):
advice. But I do try to talk topeople about the difference
between that and sponsorshipbecause a sponsor is really
someone to me who's going to whoknows your work, who knows your
strengths and your skills. Andimportantly is going to be
saying your name in the roomwhen you're not there.
(04:32):
Right? Really helping to thebest advocates for your work is
is not in your value are otherpeople. And those don't
necessarily have to be folks whoare in leadership roles or a
higher level job title. It couldcan be the the people in your
network to say, Adrian is thebest operator I've ever worked
(04:54):
with. And and that can really goa long way.
And I think that, sometimespeople confuse the two because I
do think there's a lot of peoplethat I meet with and they'll
reach out and say, I'm applyingfor this job. And I think it's I
think that's great. And I think,I can certainly give, folks my
(05:15):
opinion about what kind of thejob is and what you know, how to
position yourself. But when itcomes to advocating for that
person to get that job or thatnext level role, that's where
you really need a sponsor. Like,you need the the people who know
your work.
And so for me, I credit a lot ofthe opportunities I've had to
(05:36):
the sponsors in my careerbecause, again, and those have
been the people I've worked forlike you and others because
they've, again, at a base level,and I do tell this to everyone,
you have to be focused on yourjob and be good at what you do.
And then those are the folksthat you work with and for are
gonna say your name in the role.And I think exposure can come
(06:00):
through your sponsors too. Andyou may not be in meetings or in
conversations with the CEO, butyour sponsor is nice, and
they're the ones who are gonnabe saying your name to the CEO.
And that's where the power ofsponsors helps you gain that
exposure.
And I think it's double axingyour your exposure, if you will,
(06:21):
because it's someone elsepraising you.
Adrienne Lloyd (06:23):
And I think just to go off on the exposure
tangent, I agree. I think that'swhere whatever generation people
are aren't I don't necessarilydial into classifying in that
way. But I do think that and youand I both went through the
fellowship at Mayo, and I knowmany other colleagues who've
gone through fellowships orresidencies after their their
masters or even during theirmaster's programs for
(06:45):
internships and so forth. Andwhat was great about some of
those programs was being able tobe at the bigger tables. And I
know it sometimes kinda feltlike a kind of takeaway as you
shifted into the regular roleswhere you weren't then engaged.
But I think exposure can be,just as she said, learning from
those who are in the rooms forthose conversations. And other
times it's finding so thosemaybe not so glamorous roles or
(07:08):
ways that you can participate atin those initiatives or other
things that are valuable to theorganization, perhaps outside of
what you're doing. But it mightnot be as a lead. It may be as
a, hey, can I help you as aproject manager? Can I help with
a subgroup on this committeetask force initiative?
And I think some of those thingstoo are are great conversations
to have with a sponsor or and ormentor along the way. Yeah.
Kripa Krishnan (07:29):
And I think mentors can become sponsors.
It's not I don't think it's apurely binary thing. And I agree
with you. Like, this is a lot ofwhat I talk to fellows about as
they're leaving a fellowship andeven in early career. It's just
as important, I think, and maybeeven more so depending on the
situation of who you're workingwith and potentially for early
(07:50):
in your career rather than thetitle or the exact job
description because there'salways gonna be for and and we
know this for people who havebeen on our teams or worked with
really great people who arereally great at their jobs.
There's lots of opportunity andbandwidth within a certain job
description to get more involvedor do other things or start to
(08:12):
grow. And the right leaders canhelp you do that in the job that
you have and help set you up forthe next the next thing. I don't
think there has to be a apreference to have to be in
operations for diversity. I'vemet CEOs who started in HR, and
that's it's it's all about kindof, I think, the experience
(08:33):
doing well at what you do andand connecting with kind of the
the right people.
Adrienne Lloyd (08:39):
Absolutely. What advice would you give women in
health care or other or we havesome male audience too as this
sometimes will cross post to theleadership podcast as well. But
what advice would you give ingeneral for people who are
looking for sponsorship in theirorganizations or beyond?
Kripa Krishnan (08:56):
Yeah. I think I don't wanna sound too much
repeating, but the like, at thebase level, you really have to
focus on the job that you haveand doing well at what you do.
That's a little bit might needthose two. I'm not, I'm not
necessarily or haven'tnecessarily been a self
promoter, but I think good workspeaks for itself to some
(09:18):
extent. And that's notdiscounting the benefit
networking and doing all ofthose things are also can also
be pretty critical depending onyour situation.
But I think that or or or womenleaders really going out and
seeing in your organization oreven outside of your
organization, who do you admire?Who do you who would you like to
(09:43):
who who represents maybe some ofyour own leadership, like, ethos
or style.
Adrienne Lloyd (09:50):
Yeah.
Kripa Krishnan (09:50):
I do think that but I also think too reaching
out to male leaders and maybeleaders who you would like to
emulate as well is a goodopportunity. I do think
sometimes you can get caught ina trap of maybe trap's not the
right word, but reaching femalesreaching out to females and
males are reaching out to males,and then we're perpetuating that
(10:12):
potentially perpetuating acritical that that doesn't help
any of us. I think that all ofthat is is important to do.
Adrienne Lloyd (10:20):
Yeah. No, I agree. And I think it's really
finding people that you connectwith too. And whether you
connect on the work or the rolethat they have, there might be
something that you want orsomething that you're interested
in. It may also be someone whoyou really just feel commonality
with.
And but I I agree. I thinkcontinuing to really find others
outside your direct role thatyou connect with and can help
give you a different perspectiveis so key.
Kripa Krishnan (10:40):
And I think having them introduce you too.
Because, again, if there is aleader that you connect with
well and I'm still, I think,trying to do this myself, but
ask them, who do you think Ishould connect with? Because
they can also have some reallygood insight into what what
avenues you might want toexplore.
Adrienne Lloyd (10:59):
Yeah. Absolutely. So one of the other
things as we talked aboutbefore, one of the things we
talked about was just being anauthentic leader and, like,
really anchoring into, as yousaid, like, how you want to lead
your leadership style and whatfeels. Obviously, we all wanna
continue to evolve ourleadership style and get better
and be more adaptable and all ofthose things. But what feels
that leadership style andauthentic style that really
(11:20):
feels true to to you and who youare and how you know that you
can serve.
And you've held some reallyprestigious roles across
Northwestern and, medicine andMayo Clinic. How have you
navigated being an authenticleader while really with these
various organizational cultures?And I'm sure Northwestern looks
even different today than it didwhen you started ten years ago.
So how have you kind ofnavigated those shifts?
Kripa Krishnan (11:43):
It's certainly been a work in progress, I
think, and I have builtconfidence over the years in
settling into what my strengthsare as a leader, as opposed to
trying to emulate maybe astereotypical or what I thought
was a stereotypical version ofwhat a leader should be me. I
(12:06):
I'm by nature an introvert. I aman analytic person. And I, for a
long time, thought that I neededto balance that by being too
much in one or the otherdirection. And I think over
time, realize that, yes, likeall of us, we have our
communication styles andpersonality types that we're
(12:29):
most comfortable in, and we haveto start to adapt when we're
working with different teams anddifferent individuals.
But ultimately, the things thatwill give you more confidence
and also show your show yourvalue within your role or to the
organization is when you leaninto those strengths. And I
think that that's really beenthe learning progress for me,
(12:50):
and I haven't always been thebest sort of impromptu speaker
or presenter. I have to it's oneof the areas, like, I have to
practice clarity and brevity inmy in my presentations and my
answers, and, hopefully, I'mdoing that okay on this podcast.
(13:10):
Great. Okay.
We'll see after it's done. Butthen I know I'm very good in my
writing abilities. So and I'mgood writer, and I do my best
communication for writing. Sothen you start to lean into
that. So after the meeting, if Ifeel like I didn't make my point
or communicate more clearly, Ican send a follow-up note.
(13:33):
I have a little bit more time. Ihave a way to fully craft what I
need to craft and do that. Andor I'll try to figure out ways
where I can, either before themeeting or after the meeting,
really double down on my pointthat in the in the communication
style that I'm most comfortableor know that I'm strong at.
Which, of course, doesn't meanI'm not constantly working on
(13:54):
those other areas. But thoseare, I think, some ways that you
can help to build thatconfidence and then also
continue to contribute andprovide value.
Adrienne Lloyd (14:03):
No. I love that. And I think that's one of the
things I've probably talked onthe podcast over over time too
about, but that was reallyhelpful for me where I I feel
like I'm really great inconversation, one on one, even
presentations. Although I getnervous, and I do need to have
kind of information organized ina a way I'm going to be able to
speak to it so that my my braincan follow itself. But writing
(14:24):
is something that I've Iinitially just real I knew it
always was something that tookme more mental energy.
It would take me more time. Iprocrastinated the heck out of
it. And so finding I know whenyou and I first started working
together and you were like, Ireally love the writing piece.
It was like, okay. Fine.
Fantastic. Could you draft x, y,or z communication? And then we
can walk through it because it'seasier for me to respond to
something and edit. And I thinkthat's who, as leaders, we can
(14:47):
often take on trying to beeverything to everyone and be
great at everything. And thereis a base level, as you said,
of, you've gotta be a strongenough, you know, presenter
depending on and the roles thatyou have.
Of course, you've gotta be ableto get your point across in
these meetings, but alsorecognizing that you can
complement that in another wayso that there's not as much
(15:08):
stress that you're placing onyourself in those, you know,
confined moments of thepresentation to for that to be
like, okay. If I don't get thisright, then the project's not
gonna go through. Somebody'sgonna get offended. There's a
way to counter that with thosepieces, and I love that that's
something that you've navigatedinto. Yeah.
Yeah.
Kripa Krishnan (15:28):
For sure. And I think I like the point you
brought up too, that lean onyour teams and your colleagues
because I think, again, it'severything we do is a team
sport, and that's where if youcan if you know where your
team's strengths are, you canhelp lean on look to the right
(15:49):
people and lean on theirstrengths to to do those types
of things.
Adrienne Lloyd (15:53):
No. I agree. I agree. One of the things that I
know you mentioned, theintroverted leader, and I think
I am I'm, like, right on theintroverted extroverted side,
probably more I than esometimes. But I think it's hard
at both feeling that way,feeling introverted, feeling
also female, feeling on theyounger side, at least when we
all both started in the healthcare, industry, maybe
Kripa Krishnan (16:14):
I don't know.
Adrienne Lloyd (16:15):
Now. Not as much now, but I plus years later,
here we are. But what did youfind was really helpful in
developing your executivepresence, or what are some
thoughts that you wouldrecommend for new leaders or
leaders who are moving in maybemid career, but moving into new
roles, like, and shifting, andwanting to increase how they're
perceived and how they're ableto create an impact in that way.
Kripa Krishnan (16:38):
Mhmm. Yeah. I mean, it's, I think it's
multifactorial. Certainly what Italked about before about
leaning into your strengths isimportant because it helps build
confidence. I think asintroverted leaders and whether
this is a particular femaletrait or not, And we know some
of the research shows that thefor example, going for that job,
(17:02):
women tend not to go for the jobunless they check all the boxes
of
Adrienne Lloyd (17:08):
Requirements. Right.
Kripa Krishnan (17:09):
And men tend to shoot their shot on what? But
I'll take I'll take a swing.Yeah. And I think that's one
area too. There's there'sbasically no job that I'd taken.
That was the kind of next levelup that I felt I was that I
personally felt I was ready for,but I had the sponsors and
(17:30):
mentors around me that said goforward and gave me that
guidance. And I think havingthose trainers, not just in the
professional realm, but also inthe personal realm to really
help help you have a differentview of yourself than you mind.
And I think that's and thismight also be talking about
(17:50):
generation generational thing,millennial thing. I'm an
Adrienne Lloyd (17:54):
ever
Kripa Krishnan (17:54):
older millennial. And I have to I'm
I'm very much a feedback person.So I think that also helps me
say, what do you think mystrengths are? How do you what
am I doing well? And that canalso give you insights that you
wouldn't actually give giveyourself.
And then I think as you grow inyour career, you get more
(18:15):
confident, certainly, I had inunderstanding what those are
and, again, leaning into those.
Adrienne Lloyd (18:21):
Yeah. Yeah. No. I agree. And I I often think of
the and I'm gonna I'm not evengonna try to say who said it,
but, you know, all that we arethe average of the five people
we spend the most time with.
I think that really is true, andthat's something that I try to
do from time to time too. Andfor me, I have friends all over
the country, so it's notnecessarily those people I get
to spend the most time with. Butif I think about those people if
(18:43):
I think about the next level andwhere I wanna be in my career,
in my life, like looking aroundand saying, do I have people
that are exhibiting thosetraits, that are doing those
things that I can go to not onlyfor input, support, advice, but
also inspiration? And I thinkthat's something as you're
moving through your leadershipcareer, through your career in
(19:04):
health care to who are who doyou want to pull into your world
or move into their world so thatyou're absorbing some of either
their knowledge or energyinsights and so forth. I think
that really, makes a hugedifference.
Kripa Krishnan (19:18):
Yeah. For sure. I it's interesting just thinking
about because I know yourquestion was about developing
the executive best. And I and Ithink I have a no. It's but I
was just thinking about becauseI was like, did I answer that
question?
I think I I feel like I have Ialso have a complicated
relationship with the the termexecutive presence because very
(19:40):
early on in my career, I knowone of the the areas of my
evaluations for opportunity forimprovement, basically, was this
idea, the work on your executivepresence. And there's there I
understand some of that in termsof I was very quiet. Not to say
I'm still not quiet, but insome, avenues. But I do think
(20:03):
sometimes it's coded for femaleleaders. It's coded on when you
don't look the right way, youdon't sound the right way.
You're not as
Adrienne Lloyd (20:14):
Very nice. Bright. Yeah.
Kripa Krishnan (20:15):
You don't have to even at the right thing.
That's where I try to balance alittle bit. And it's like all
things, it's not a blanketstatement, but I I do always
wanna make sure I'm I am amencouraging others to more
thoughtfully analyze feedbackaround executive presence when
(20:35):
that's given us a area for Matt.
Adrienne Lloyd (20:38):
Yeah. I'm getting, like, a a set of images
flashing through my mind, right,when you hear the word executive
presence. And I agree, like,what I twenty years ago, brand
new to the industry, to therole, like, you hear that word
and but having been in somewhatformal organizations in my
career too, there's a whole,like, physical appearance where
they show that and there's agender and age classification
(21:01):
that at least initially wouldhave come to my mind when I
thought about those things. Andnow the images that flash
through my mind are the range ofexecutive leaders that I know in
all shapes, colors, and sizespresenting and handling
themselves in so many differentways. And I think that's I love
that.
I love that. Like, how do wedefine executive presence? And
(21:22):
it's really should be the impactand connection with your teams
and influence, not anythingbeyond that.
Kripa Krishnan (21:29):
Good point. Yeah. And I think almost
ironically, when you see the thethose visions flash flash what
it should be, but thenironically, you that you have
more executive presence if youlean more into your own
authentic leadership. Yeah.Like, that's actually what gives
(21:50):
you opportunity to presence.
So it's, again, acounterintuitive type of, idea.
But
Adrienne Lloyd (21:58):
No. I think it is. I think if the parts I love
about executive presence, Ithink, are that ability to hold
the space for various thoughts,being calm and chaos, being able
to unify the team around thegoals and navigate through the
different perspectives to thelike core root of the issue or
the core direction forward. AndI think that's the more that you
(22:20):
are able to center yourself andunderstand yourself and how you
can and wanna function as aleader, I think the easier it is
for for that to happen. And Iknow one of the other things we
talked about is, you know, withbeing a woman of color in the
executive leadership, what aresome of the barriers that you've
encountered and how how wouldyou what advice might you give
for other kind of women of colornavigating the complexities of
(22:44):
leadership in in health care?
Kripa Krishnan (22:46):
Yeah. And I I think it's an and I I occupy, I
think, an interesting space tobecome Salvation and in the
health care space, I'm morelikely to be mistaken for a
position than than somethingelse. And I and other women of
color who are not Salvation andactually both talked with and
(23:09):
are friends with many womenleaders who, you know, the miss
the mis to be mistaken forsomething else that's not as
potentially Llamorous asadministrative. As be as being
as being the same per positionis different. So I I am
cognizant that I I there'sthere's inherent privilege
within within this category ofwomen of color that I occupy.
(23:33):
That said, I'm not I have notbeen immune to some of those
bear barriers that exist. I'vehad, many I shouldn't say many.
I've had experiences that havehave made me think about whether
it's my job to make the otherperson comfortable with what you
(23:55):
just said or keep themuncomfortable if they've made a
comment about I think I told youabout a situation that we were,
I think, talking about at thetime offshoring opportunities
for I I can't even remember whatthe m said it was, scheduling or
call center or something. And anindividual in that meeting
(24:19):
looked at me and or I thinksomeone said, oh, you know, they
do this in India now. And thensomeone looked over at me and
said, Kripa, do you know anyone?
Which I think was meant to be ajoke. It's clearly it it was
very uncomfortable. And I thinkin the moment I had to figure
out what I had to instead of orin terms of laugh at us, which
(24:40):
helps the other person feel morecomfortable, but that is doesn't
quite have the compactive,helping them understand that was
not an appropriate comment. Soin the moment I did, I was
quiet, but I didn't laugh. And Ithink given that I think his
facial expressions, he thoughtthat was not that made me
uncomfortable and I think madeeveryone in the room
uncomfortable.
(25:00):
And I think that's it's the samesort of theory around or the,
process around microaggressionsand just things that, you know,
that that we have to navigatewhether you're a leader or not.
But certainly it's becomes alittle bit more difficult when
you're a leader and it's comingfrom other senior leaders that
(25:21):
are in charge of your sort offate or or otherwise. And so I
think, like, talking about it isuseful. I think with having a
group of individuals that youcan you can process through
these things and thinking about,like, how you conduct yourself
in those situations is a bit ofa fraught topic that I think
it's something that I alwaysencourage to be prepared for
(25:43):
certainly. Yeah.
Adrienne Lloyd (25:45):
No. I appreciate you sharing that. I think that's
yeah. Having a group that youcan you talk to and be like,
this happened. Don't know evenknow how to feel about it.
Like, I don't know how to feelabout this and having that those
sounding boards to help you talkthrough it and think through it
and know what or if you need todo differently.
Kripa Krishnan (26:02):
I've had experiences in my career where,
again, some of my sponsors havebeen white men have been great
advocates for me and stepped inin a way I didn't have to. I
think I had a there was a vendoronce that reached out and it was
sort it was a very oddstatement, but the email said
(26:23):
something like, what does a guylike me what can a guy like me
do for a woman like you? And andit was some, like, it was some
vendor thing. And I was like,half joking, but half like, what
is going on? And I remember myVP at the time got very
basically made sure that thatvendor was appropriately
(26:46):
counseled.
And then basically we're not,we're either not gonna deal with
you particularly or companyagain. And so those are the
kinds of things that make mefeel that helps feel supported
and we should all be doing forour teams for sure.
Adrienne Lloyd (27:00):
I agree. I agree. I think those are so
important. What one of the otherthings we talked about and, you
know, you and I grew both grewup with at at Museo of Denzio. I
grew up at Mayo, if that feelsthat way.
But really relax. Working withphysicians, which was one of the
things I truly adored about allthe careers that I've had, but
it's that physician partnership,but it was just such a strong
(27:21):
kind of presence at Mayo. Butwhat as you've navigated some of
those more challengingconversations or even
potentially challengingpartnerships with physicians or
otherwise, but, I do feel likeconnecting with our physician
colleagues is often a differentconversation or nuance to that
conversation as we're partneringwith them. What have you found
to be the most helpful in inthose conversations and
(27:43):
relationships in general?
Kripa Krishnan (27:44):
Yeah. I think that I think the the longer I've
been in this space, the thebetter I and or I I think the
better we all get atunderstanding where people are
coming from. So that's not justwhat their own ethos is, but
also their their theirstrengths, their areas for
(28:07):
opportunity. I mean, we getbetter at knowing that about
ourselves, but also others. AndI think that's one of the key
opportunity areas when you're inyou're the an administrator and
kind of a physicianadministrative partnership dyad,
because it's recognizing whateveryone brings to the table.
(28:29):
And over the years, you and I,we've we've worked with all
different people, all differentphysician leaders, and all all
different one of those aredifferent people. So they'll
have their communication's gutstyle, their way of their
preferred way of doing things.And I think as administrators,
we have to kind of understandhow to dial up or dial down
(28:54):
certain aspects of ourpersonality or skillset to help
bring that kind of balance to tothat partnership. I've worked
with physician leaders whoreally don't like to have
difficult conversations. It'sjust an uncomfortable space for
them.
And then I'd have to be the oneto come in and, and to give the
hard news or be, be direct onbehalf of that position leader
(29:19):
and vice versa. I've worked withleaders who will run towards
this conflict because theyreally like to be. And that's so
then I then my role is a littlebit coming in and being this
sort of softer suit soothessoothes thing.
Adrienne Lloyd (29:35):
Why do you need those shifts? And this is the
yes.
Kripa Krishnan (29:38):
And I think that, again, not and this is
just, like, this point in ourcareer, how many of these, like,
personality tests have we done.Right? Like, it's what's your
communication style? What's yourpersonality? You learn that
there's not right or wrongcommunication styles or
personality styles.
It's just what the situationcalls for. Yeah. And that's
(29:58):
where that's actually where Ithink some of the opportunities
and power comes in with dyads isbecause you have that much more
that much more tools in the toolchest, if you will, to be able
to get things done.
Adrienne Lloyd (30:13):
Oh, I love that was goes into something that we
talked about too, which isreally balancing being
empathetic while making thosetough decisions, in challenging
environments. And and really, Ithink, anchoring that in, as you
said, to your personality, andthose conflict management styles
and recognizing that back toothers. And, oh, I so appreciate
you coming today. Let's wrapeverything up. As you look back
(30:33):
over your your career, yourjourney, is there any piece of
advice that you wish you wouldhave received maybe earlier on,
or is there any takeaway thatyou'd like to leave the
listeners with as they navigatetheir own paths?
Kripa Krishnan (30:47):
Yeah. It's a good question. I feel like maybe
I've covered it already, so notto repeat myself. But
ultimately, I do think early inyour career, if I were to look
back at myself and to talk totalk to myself, a, to say it
will all work out. So you dothink that, especially if you're
in a fellowship and coming outof a fellowship, it's like you
(31:07):
always I always tell, fellowsthat because you're always
worried about that first job.
And I think, I remember youactually telling me this because
I was so worried about my firstjob and you're like, it's it'll
all work out. And I didn'tbelieve you. And any everyone I
talk to, they don't believe meeither. And then it all works
out. But I do think that's truefor, for careers too, where
(31:28):
ultimately, you know, staygrounded, be good at the job
you're doing, do your best atthe role you're doing, be
confident, bill be confident inyour own authentic leadership
style and wearing your strengthsand find those people who are
gonna be in your corner and thatyou can learn from and help
(31:50):
support.
And, hopefully, they willsupport you in your career too.
Adrienne Lloyd (31:54):
I love that. Yeah. I think there's just such
pressure. And it not only atearly career, I think throughout
our careers, we place suchpressure on ourselves around who
and what we will or what wecome. And I think when we can
anchor into what feels true forus today and what we want, maybe
tomorrow or three tomorrows fromnow, but not having to put such
(32:14):
pressure on the kind of thefinal product, the final
outcome.
It just allows space for us tonavigate the world that is
health care, us, and and change.And
Kripa Krishnan (32:25):
Yeah. The and there's a balance. I don't want
to say, just be great in yourjob, and there's no don't take
don't take charge of yourdestiny. And then there's the
other end of the spectrum, whichis you're constantly networking
and trying to makerelationships, but they need
more as focused on your own job.And Yeah.
Both things are not you have tofind that happening kind of
medium, I think.
Adrienne Lloyd (32:46):
Yeah. Focus and, yes, putting in the effort,
creating those connections andsponsors. I think that's a great
some great tidbits. And so Ireally appreciate your time.
And, thank you so much for beingwith us today.
And maybe we'll have you backone day as we navigate these
other topics, but I reallyappreciate it, Akarba.
Kripa Krishnan (33:05):
Thank you so much for having me. It was a fun
experience. I hope it turns up.You survived. I did.
Adrienne Lloyd (33:10):
And now you won't.
Kripa Krishnan (33:11):
And I I thank you because you've been a mentor
and a sponsor in my career and aand a good friend. And you're
you're my hashtag goals too. Sofor a career perspective. So,
Adrienne Lloyd (33:23):
it's easy to be sponsors when you've got people
who are working really hard anddoing the right things as they
grow.
Kripa Krishnan (33:28):
So Well, thanks for having me.
Adrienne Lloyd (33:29):
It was fun. Absolutely. Thank you so much.
Kripa Krishnan (33:31):
Alright. Talk to you soon. K.
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