Nikko Hurtado: Tattoo Mastery, Social Media Addiction, and Giving Back to the Craft

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
they actually use some of the models from slot machines. Like noises
and the way the screen pops up and you're getting a little dopamine
And so now what they're doing is it doesn't matter the content. It's
like an algorithm thing where it chooses and then that one gets
more and then all of a sudden it doesn't and it's a manipulative tactic to

(00:20):
create an addiction. And so social media addiction I think
in the next 10 years is gonna be something that we really see that
people are gonna take serious because I'm sure it's causing mental health
issues and self-worth issues and all kinds of stuff because
it's so fabricated now that it's hard
to really see through the smoke. You know what I mean? It's

(01:00):
Hello friends, neighbors of planet Earth,
lovers of art, lovers of creativity. I think a lot of you lovers
of this show, thank you for even listening. Thank you for being here today. I
couldn't be more pumped up. When I was a young tattooer, the
man that's on the show today was a huge influence in my career. I
saw some stuff that he did and it shattered the boundaries of

(01:22):
what I thought was possible. and I started tattooing differently ever since
that day. So to be sitting here with him today is a huge honor for
me. Let me give you some of his accolades. This guy's
been tattooing for 22 years. He's also an amazing painter.
He's most known for his photo realism tattoos, which
are fucking impeccable. It looks like a goddamn

(01:44):
HD photograph on human tissue. It'll blow your mind. And
because his work is so Epic he's had the honor
of tattooing a lot of badass people i mean puff daddy drake the rock
he's uh now working on the third season of ink master
he was on la ink he's a father of three beautiful
kids he's the owner of black anchor ink with

(02:05):
locations in hysperia and hollywood california he's
the creator of revolution ink which which some of my boys here
at the shop have been using. I'll be trying soon. He just broke down how
he makes this stuff. I can't wait to try this thing. I've only heard great things about
it. And he also makes vortex rotary machines, by the
They're beautiful. I'll send you everything, man. I'm like slow and steady. I don't like

(02:29):
No, you're all right. Well, with all that being said, you heard his voice already. Please
Thank you, bro. Thank you. I'm honored to be here, Aaron, man. You know,
I've been such a big fan of your work for so long. Oh, really? For
sure. Come on, man. Don't tease me. So I'm going to tell you. So we're going
to jump into this because I feel like this is important for
me to say, and you just gave me such a great introduction. Thank you.

(02:52):
But when I started tattooing, you know, I started Art Junkies Tattoo, and
it was in the desert. We had, you know, this is when the shops were laid out. Who was out of
Art Junkies? Was it Mike DeVries? Mike DeMasi. DeMasi. DeVries came after.
Okay. So it was me and Mike DeMasi, and it
was this girl Kirsten, and then this other guy Mario Rosenau. I
don't know if you know him. I don't. He owns Stencil Stuff, and he did that
stuff. Okay. You know, when I started there,

(03:16):
it was all like Flash when you walked in. It was like Cherry Creek Flash and
all that stuff. Remember that stuff? Oh, yeah, man. Cherry Creek. And the best Flash in
the shop was a collaboration Flash between
somebody named Arundel Lovadova and Bill
Canales. And yesterday I was
at Bill Canale's shop. His shop's named Full Circle, which is

(03:36):
Full Circle for me. First time I ever met the guy. I took two days
of his workshop. The Dragon Workshop. Yeah, the Dragon Workshop.
I didn't know you'd go in there. I like that you did that. For sure. But
the cool thing is, is when you had asked me to do this podcast, it
seemed like the perfect timing because this collaborative flash
you made with Bill was a special moment

(03:58):
in my career because I remember that flash. I remember what it looked like.
I remember the drawings. I remember that was the stuff I wanted to tattoo.
I'd always try to tell people, let's do this. People would never get it
because it just, Cherry Creek was just one of those things that was within the
budget and it was you know, a
little different. They could understand it. Yeah, it was hard to, uh,

(04:18):
but, but do you know when we did get the chance to do it, it was, we were stoked,
you know, it was like showing off. Oh man. So to me, Bill, the
last few days and then come here to your shop and, you know, be able to
do this, I just want to say thank you because it's full circle. You know, it's
a definitely a new beginning. It almost feels
like it feels like I closed out a chapter or something. And now, uh,

(04:38):
this brings me to a new place and my role is different now. And so, Yeah,
You know, it's funny because that set of Flash, I do get a lot of
people to say that to me. Not back when I did it. I didn't think anyone gave
a shit about it. But now 20 years later, occasionally a guy
will be like, yeah, your Flash is still in our shop. It's killer. That's awesome.
Yeah, and Bill was the inspiration for me. He really did a black

(05:02):
and gray set like that. And I was like, damn. And that's
why I did it was because of Bill. Bill was a huge part of my growth for sure. I
worked with Bill for a number of years. amazing human being, guy
that's still pushing it after all these years. I think he's been tattooing about
as long as me. Great dude, but you know, it was really interesting though to hear you
were in town doing the dragon class, obviously, because you're more photo realism

(05:22):
kind of guy. I'm like, what's he doing over there? He must know Bill, but now I know you don't know
So I'll even tell you how this happens. So the funny thing
is, I work with this guy, R17 Ricardo, great black and
gray, like single needle tattooer. Great guy, works really hard.
His story is so crazy from where he comes from and
how he's changed his life. And I wouldn't put it out there. I'd let

(05:45):
him that it's would be inspiring to so many, you know,
because this guy is just he's an inspiration to me. And I feel like he
was placed in my hands to kind of help him out as like a mentor in
a way, you know, and I'm sure you've had those types of people. Definitely. With that being said,
so Ricardo booked the class, and then was
like, I just booked Bill Canales' Dragon class. And

(06:06):
I was like, oh dude, book me, book me if you can, if you
haven't bought it. And so he did it, and when
I showed up, you know, Bill was like, oh what the fuck, like I think I threw him off.
off guard or whatever, but I took the class because
now I do what I do, and I'm gonna continue

(06:28):
Yeah, I'm not gonna, dude, that takes a lifetime to master and
learn. It's obviously something that I respect and I really
enjoy looking at, and even maybe doing it my way, you
know, in a neo way, but like judging these tattoos on
this show, Ink Master is definitely I
hold in high regard and I want to respect the artists that

(06:49):
do this. So artists are coming in with different styles, different backgrounds.
And, you know, we can all say what a dragon looks like. We all know what a dragon looks
like and we know an idea if it's wrong or right. Right. But
I don't have the small nuances and the information. I've worked with great
tattooers like Jamie Sheen that did Japanese tattoos.
And he was already kind of transitioning into realism. So

(07:11):
he was already over it. He did all that stuff for
so long. So I didn't get much information from these guys
because they wanted to do what I did. It was like new. So going
to Bill was a way and paying it for the class and
not letting him know I was going to take it because I could have DM them and just said,
hey, you know, I'm taking this class. But I wanted to be raw and

(07:32):
organic and honest, and I wanted to just be a fly in the wall.
And, you know, I wanted him to know I'm coming with respect and
I'm coming with no knowledge and I'm going to try my
best and I want you to destroy my what. what
I'm doing in order to learn, and the goal is to
pay respect to people that come on Ink Master that are really into Japanese

(07:53):
and any style. Like, dude, if you're a traditional tattooer
and I find out you're doing a seminar on traditional, I'm
probably gonna take it. Yeah, I'm probably gonna show up, you know? And so anybody doing
these seminars, You know, I want to learn more. I want to learn more
about the history. And I also want to represent tattooing in
the respect, bro, because I love it. It saved my life. I'm sure it saved your

(08:15):
life. And I feel like, oh, it's so much, dude. And
this is my way of taking my own time and just gaining new
information and knowledge and trying to be the best representative that
Yeah what i hear there is it's love you're giving love back to
what is is taking care of you that's really the chapter

(08:36):
i'm in as well you know i'm i still gotta work i still got a tattoo i
still gotta run my shops but i'm much more focused on that now you
know we've all been very fortunate to become tattooers this art
form has made my life it probably did save my
life i don't know what the hell i would have done if i hadn't found tattooing i
was hanging around with It wouldn't have been good. And

(08:56):
so to give back in that second chapter, or
I won't say last, but that back end of our careers, that's
cool you're doing that, you know? Yeah, man, I mean. Because you don't have to do that. You
Yeah, but I love it. That's the coolest thing, right?
I love tattooing. I love every
style. I may not do every style, and to be honest, dude,

(09:19):
I don't want to do every style. I think that there's great
people that do everything, and you should go to them for that, and
that's their thing. To me, a real true tattoo
master is somebody that hones out what they've done over decades and
they focus on that and they perfect it and change it and
take it to a new place and Hopefully they've changed

(09:41):
the direction of that course, you know of whatever direction they were
going And I do believe that a tattooer's tattooer
is somebody that does everything. And there's two different ways
of it. You know, I don't discredit either way. I just think
people have different choices on what they think is important. And so I
believe roles change in careers, right? So I was the young guy and

(10:01):
then I became the middle guy. No, no, I'm not the not so young guy anymore.
You know, I'm an older guy and I have experience. But now
with this new position, I feel like I need to step up to that and
do my best to be better and have a different eye and
not just focus on what I think is important. So
I took a sculpting class as well recently. And it was like sculpting

(10:24):
a portrait from life, which I really love portraits, just what gets me going.
It was the first sculpture I ever did and like from a photo, from
a person's face of a portrait. But also I took this to understand
the three dimensions of a sculpture, right? How to look at it from different angles.
And the reason is because also the Sinkmaster thing, I feel like
I need to do my job the best. And so not being a sculptor, this takes

(10:47):
me into a different mind frame of what someone
that sculpts believes is supposed to be right from every angle and
what they think is correct looking at a three-dimensional object and
kind of how to break it down. So whether these people on the show
are doing like these sculptures with forks or whatever, I
feel like taking a class, picking a sculptor's brain, trying

(11:08):
to understand what the view is, than bringing it back and
giving these tattooers that are, I mean, they're taking a huge chance going on there, dude,
I said that. I was like, oh, come on and be a judge. I was terrified, because I'm

(11:28):
like, dude, I've been tattooing at that point maybe 20 years.
I'm like, if I go on there and lose on the first round, which
is very possible, my ego couldn't have handled it. And
I don't know. I don't know. I just thought it would be bad for my career. I'm
It's a big risk. It is, and I feel the same way, bro. Like, I'll be

(11:49):
honest, the first email I ever got, like, seven years ago of them writing
me to be like, hey, it was Ink Master, my ego was
inflamed, and I was like... I'm not competing. I was
all defensive before even reading the email. I'm not going on
there. What do they think? And then they asked me
to do a guest judge, and I was a little relieved, but I'm
sure that's a shitty perspective for me to have. But I gotta give credit

(12:13):
where credit's due because these people, all these individuals
that go on there, these tattooers, they really go through the
ringer, and it's really a lot harder than ever I expected. And
last season, they had me judging, they had me coaching, and
then they had me Compete and I lost one one
little like challenge and I mean it gave me a different perspective of

(12:34):
what these Artists are going through so I'm actually really
grateful for that experience because it's fucking hard,
bro And I couldn't imagine what they go through. Oh, it's
tough. It's emotionally draining. It's physically tough
Yeah, but it's awesome. I Especially if you, I mean, and by the

(12:54):
way, kudos to Bobby Glendale Bowley. Home town
local hero. I think he's coming on the show soon too. And his work's fucking
amazing. Yeah. He's sick. I'm glad he, he, he won. But, um, yeah,
that's a big, it's a big risk. It's a lot of, everyone I've ever talked to, it's been on that show there.
They come back and I ask them in their face to just go, bro, that
was gnarly. Like you could see the stress falling

(13:20):
And I got it easy, you know what I mean? And so to see,
I think the empathy there too though, because knowing what we do and
how hard it is to just
endure every aspect, you know, lack of sleep, you know, long
days tattooing, you know, no music, bro. Like
when was the last time you ever tattooed without any music? Never. Maybe never.

(13:43):
Try it one day. You might love it, but it's like
cringing. Yeah, dude, it's so hard. You know what I mean? Like music gives
you so much. Oh, yeah. And these kids sit there and tattoo with no
music, dude. And I'm like. Not even one earbud? You
guys can't even give them one earbud? But I guess that's part
of the mental challenge of it. It's a game. And you know, it's

(14:03):
some people are gonna be better with no pressure, and
there's gonna be some people that are better with pressure. And a lot of these people,
like just say Glendale Bully, they rise to the pressure
and are able to achieve a different place where some
people might have more ability in a
different way, but the pressure breaks them. Not everyone works good

(14:24):
in that environment. Yeah. Yeah. And so it's a, it's a difficult situation, but
That's that, that's sweet. Yeah. That show has gotten a lot better too. I feel
like, you know, guys like you on there judging the contestants that
are on there. It's, it's, it's legit, man. These guys are good and
they're really competing. I think when it first came out, I thought it was all fake.

(14:45):
That seems pretty legit. I mean, it's television, you know, and it's
entertainment. I think that I don't understand all that. I'm there just to
do one small part. But it's crazy to see the perspective because it
takes hundreds of individuals to make that happen. And
that's what's really interesting. And it's a collaborative thing with
one person that runs it. And Andrea runs it, and she's amazing. And
she works really hard, and you can tell she really loves tattooing. That's the point,

(15:14):
She has sleeves, and she gets tattooed by her favorite contestants.
You know her friends. And from our perspective, it
might be not how we would represent tattooing, but also
I do believe that there are certain parts of tattooing that need
outsiders to make it better. You know, I think that we have
a small pinhole view of being a tattooer, but there's people that have different perspectives.

(15:41):
And you know what they want to see and what they're interested in is what you
got to cater to. Yeah, I get that. Yeah, that's why so
many tattooers are just saying, oh, ink masters. It's
like, well, yeah, you probably don't get as much out
of it as someone who collects tattoos. I
would just wanna see the techniques and stuff, but that's not

(16:02):
what the show's made for. But that's cool, man. That's fun that
you're a part of that. Congratulations to you. That's awesome. Let
me back you up a little bit because I'm always curious about this. You've been tattooing
My family always was like, you should tattoo. You know, that's just what
they would always say. My family was like, don't fucking do that. Definitely

(16:23):
not my dad and mom. It was more like my sketchy cousins
or uncles. You know what I mean? Like it was the people that just were like, you draw
and they just probably were thinking about themselves and They tattoo us.
Oh, we can do it for free. You know, you can do just as good as the dude down the street,
I'm sure. So there was a moment one of my cousin's dad's son
got out of prison and he tattooed in there. So he I was like

(16:45):
16 and he had me tattoo an orange. That was the first with a homemade machine. That
was, I did like a butterfly. It was like two seconds, but I did this butterfly. With
a homemade machine. Yeah, it was just, he was just fucking around and it was
a long time ago. And then, um, at
16, my cousin's husband, he was in a bike
club and Inksinger's Ball was happening. And

(17:06):
I see your, your award. I have the same one. Oh, that's why I keep it
No one's ever pointed towards that. No, Inksinger's Ball. I have the same one. And I
Exactly. So it was amazing, right? Ink Slinger's Ball was the shit. And that place was gangster, man. It
was the shit at the Palladium, bro. Like, that's my dream right there, to throw a

(17:27):
It was cool, but I remember being scared there, like all these scary motherfuckers.
So the guys that threw that show, you know, my family was
involved with them. So he was like, hey, they're throwing a convention. We
should check it out. So they took me at 16. And I remember, man,
it was it was the fucking coolest thing I ever went into. It
was just raw. It was dark in there. I remember seeing Robert

(17:48):
Hernandez the first time. And back then it was fucking crazy. About
16 years old. And then I didn't do anything with tattooing or nothing. But
me and my buddy Mike Damasi used to talk about tattooing and it was his
dream. And he started selling me on that idea. And
then he opened his shop, Art Junkies. I was about 21, 20 years
old maybe. And I was working construction. I didn't graduate

(18:10):
high school, but I did art. And I stopped doing art for like two years.
And so I walked in just to congratulate my friend. Hey dude, you know, congratulations
on your shop. You know, this is awesome. And he opened it with four other
people, or three other people, his girlfriend and then a couple. And
when I walked in, he was like, you should apprentice. And I was like, yeah, maybe.
And I had already tried to apprentice at, I don't know if

(18:33):
you ever heard of Tattoo Image where Big Ed worked. Remember Big Ed? You ever heard
of his work? I've heard the name, but I don't know. Amazing tattooer, bro. Had a
sleeve from Jack Rudy, did very similar work. Like a Tim Hendricks
Jack Rudy. He was friends with Dan Gingerberg, but this guy
Yeah. So Big Ed, badass in the desert, low-key

(18:53):
dude, amazing tattooer. I went there to try
to get an apprenticeship and they
were like, hey, if you didn't get into it 10 years ago, Ed wasn't there, one
of his workers was there. But he was like, if you didn't get into it 10 years ago, you'll
never get into it. And this is before Mike had opened his shop. So
I kind of gave up the idea. And then Mike

(19:13):
opened his shop, and I went in there to say what's up, and he's like, you should learn how
to tattoo, I'll apprentice you. I had no tattoos, and I
was like, I'll be here tomorrow. And he was like, yeah? And I'm like, yeah, dude, I'm
not busy. It's winter, and construction's slow,
and I saved a little money, so yeah, I'll come. So after
that, so I feel like, and this is gonna sound crazy,
but I feel like tattooing chose me. Because I walked in, it wasn't

(19:37):
forceful. Soon as I started apprenticing, I
was busy, bro. Like, I was busy three weeks booked out
as soon as I was able to tattoo. After that it was six months. And
it's just because people knew I drew. Which was super unique back then
in a way. Which was, yeah, it was just, I don't understand it. But
I was very lucky and tattooing grabbed a hold of me. and
shook me, man. And that's why I say it saved my life, because a lot of people

(20:00):
around me didn't do much with
their life, you know? And nobody gave me anything,
you know? So everything I've built and
I have is from tattooing, you
know? And my kids have a better life because of tattooing. My daughter
wants to tattoo. She's 17 right now. You know, it's

(20:21):
definitely been a roller coaster because tattooing
took me back to art, too. You know what I mean? Like, I gave up
art because I was like, I'm never going to do anything with this. And somebody had
told me when I was not drawing that I was losing my soul. They
were like, oh, that's sad. You're losing a piece of your soul, not drawing. And I was like, you're
a weird hippie. You know, I was like, back then I was like, you're crazy. I don't
know what you're talking about. But when I started drawing again, I realized

(20:45):
she was right, and I didn't know. She was actually more knowledgeable
than where I was at, and I did lose a piece of my soul, and
tattooing has replenished my soul. has
made me re-fall in love with art and fine art. And
it's actually given me a purpose for my life as far as like other
than being a father. And yeah, dude, I just, I'm really

(21:06):
grateful for it because it was unheard of at the time, you know, like
back then, I'm sure 30 years ago, even more so, like people were like, you're tattooing, you're
crazy. Dealing with these people, you're crazy. Like you're never going to do nothing. But
you've probably traveled the world. You've done tattoos on
Joe Rogan, all kinds of people like this. You've made great relationships.
You have a beautiful shop and look at how much you're pushing. Like what

(21:29):
Yeah, it has been. And that's the best part really is I
never wanted to own a shop. The only reason I started Guru is because I couldn't
find anywhere to work with other people that were kind. Yeah.
I got sick of it i was like fuck it i'll just do my own spot now higher kind
people and that didn't happen out of the gates by the way it took years
of. People come and people going to get to this point but but

(21:52):
and then that flipped into gratitude for how much.
I know they come and they go, but I also know that being
here in this place I built is gonna be something positive in
their life, and that's probably the most rewarding. That, in addition to
the clients we touch, and leaving them with a great tattoo and
a great experience. Those, look at the portfolio secondary. That

(22:15):
is what warms my heart. A lot of people out
there, man, they work 30 years, and they look back, and
they're like, what the fuck was that all about? All I did was, I
was in this office you doing this thing for this big company and
you know if you're in that position out there people i'm not
judging you i'm just saying i'm fortunate. Have it

(22:35):
really i feel like it meant a lot i feel like it's helped a lot of people and
still does you're in the same boat that's a cool thing about
Dude, for sure. I mean, but, but you know, what's crazy is I'm starting to experience the
people that are in tattooing that feel the same way about the office job. You
know, I'm sure you have to like these guys that have been tattooing for, you
know, 20, 30 years. And they're just on the different side of the

(22:57):
gratitude, you know, that there's that fence and they jumped on the opposite side. And
a lot of these people are really talented and I feel really unfortunate for them because
I'm like, I almost like want to shake them and be like, dude, you're
cutting your own blessings out because you've been doing this so long and
you have the wrong perspective. I've seen your accomplishments. It's
just that you, you don't see that. And it's unfortunate, you know,

(23:18):
and I think it's sad to see that with people you even care about, you
Yeah. I've met a few of those. I've also met a lot of, I mean, this
kind of gets to something else I wanted to ask you, which is, you
know, your, your take on when we got in, You
know, the ride we were on, I call it the ride just because the
economics of tattooing from 20 years ago to now have

(23:39):
been really good. I mean, basically the industry was vacant of
what it was needed. So anybody that could halfway tattoo could
get in and thrive. Everybody was thriving. And i don't know
anyone who wasn't and and now it's
changed you know i think we're a more mature industry like anything
else i just had a ryan roy on the show and he put it well he's like. We're

(24:00):
just like take dentist for instance you wanna go open a dentist place. No
dentist says there's too many dentists they understand it's
a completely. All the dentist there's enough dentist go
around so if i'm gonna open a dentist practice what am i bring into the table how am i gonna be
of service to people in a way that maybe my competitors are not. And
we're in that phase right now so i've been getting man i got a phone call

(24:21):
recently from a guy's been tattooed for twenty years you want to work my front job yeah i
What's crazy, it's like this. I live by the rule of there's enough air
for everyone to breathe. So with tattooing, yeah, dude, if you
compare it to when we started, when we started, it wasn't as good. Before
TV shows, it was awesome in the way of people

(24:44):
walked in, you did a banger, or you were lucky to get a big piece
or a sleeve, it was like the beginnings of that stuff. And I'm sure you watched
the transition from small tattoos to big tattoos, and then that. Once
the TV shows came in, it blew up, right? what
people don't understand is how many more people are getting tattooed today
than they were 30 years ago. What about 20 years

(25:05):
ago? Even 10 years ago, there's more people getting tattooed. So there's more
clients out there. And yeah, dude, I think I hear a lot
about bedside manner. And so that's important
to have good bedside manner, be respectful, let people fucking
feel comfortable. You know, it's a different time in the world. And
I also think like, let's just say you're in a position when you're

(25:25):
not busy. Are you sitting back
and whining about it and just wasting your time?
Or are you the person that's going to take this time and
realize you should be grateful because it's going to get busy again. It's
going to happen, dude. People are going to get busy. But what did you do with the time that
you had downtime with? How are you getting better? Are you taking time to

(25:45):
learn from others? Are you taking time to practice other art
forms? Even just something as simple as photography, you
know, where you could just snap photos like there's opportunity there.
It's just how are you looking at it? Are you looking at it
as, hey, I can make some other cool
stuff and when things get busy I'll have other cool stuff to sell like

(26:08):
t-shirt designs or prints or whatever it is that you
like to do, right now's the time to hone on that. And
just build something great. That's how you build. You build in the times
when you're not able to show off or be
Hundred percent and you know i was in the military when i was young and i
just have this kind of military approach towards work and not

(26:30):
just that my father was an entrepreneur i work construction for him
when i was young. To me work week is sixty hour work week
i don't give a shit if there's nobody to tattoo i work today and what
am i gonna do today i'm gonna work on my website i'm gonna.
groom some photos for instagram you know what you to
video on how to do a different technique yeah and i am these folks

(26:50):
at work with me now they're on that same, in that same mindset but
yeah i work with plenty that it's like they're just sit in the back smoking cigarettes just
You show up, you show up, dude, you show up and you keep showing up and you
knock on that fucking door. And then that door eventually opens, you
know what I mean? That's the whole point of perseverance, right?

(27:11):
You don't let things break you down, you
just pivot and you adjust and you move on. And
to me, that's what you gotta do, man. I've been
very fortunate in tattooing and I'm sure people will listen to this and be like,
oh, it's easy for you. But that's the mentality that's fucked. Cause
Right. And when they say it's easy for you, they're not taking into account the

(27:35):
80 hour work weeks for decades that you put back there. Bro.
Or even just like, dude, like stop complaining and
do something about it. You know, like, do something. Like, it
doesn't need to be a tattoo. Like, dude, my shops are hindered right
now because of, you know, the economy and stuff. Like, I feel it.
It trickles all the way up and down, you know? I feel for
these guys and I understand. It's just, I do believe that right

(27:59):
now, if you aren't busy, it's time to separate yourself from
the herd. And the way you do that is by putting your head down and
making shit happen. And if that's just as simple as putting
your pencil to paper and making something, Dude,
that'll fill your soul so much more and you'll feel rejuvenated and
it gives you sometimes more or dude, you know what I

(28:20):
do if I'm feeling bad? I go to the Getty and I look at the
artwork and I look at like what these masters made and
it gives you perspective like a lot of these people that have tons of money they weren't able to
live the way they were kind of paid and Some
of these people, like Van Gogh, it was crazy. He
never had a good life. So you're lucky to make art. You're lucky

(28:41):
to live the life we've lived with tattooing. And
you just got to keep that perspective and keep knocking on
And that's not even tattoo advice, that's life advice. I mean, there's nobody that
makes it to the top of the food chain or even close to it in anything without
that attitude, right? If you're looking for somebody, somewhere to

(29:01):
sit your ass and just get a paycheck every week, don't come here. You
know, on that perspective, because yeah, the economy this
year, last year was rough, this year seems a little better, but we'll
see. Ryan roy who is on the show he does a lot of financial stuff
for tattoos and investigates the economy economy in
the economics of tattooing their predictions and his people he

(29:22):
talks to that are economists. We're supposed to triple our
net cap next five years magic what were doing in the billions by
the way that's in the billions okay that's machines
inks everything we're doing that's supposed to triple. So
all those folks out there that are like thinking doom and gloom, no, it's there. And
more is coming. You just gotta be ready and prepared for it.

(29:44):
And how do you do that? In the downtime you prep, in the
Well, that's with COVID. I heard you mentioned some stuff of what the things you
I never had. So the Vortex stuff wasn't even
the stuff I was doing. Tattooing's so highly guarded and especially
tattoo pigment making. It's so highly guarded. I feel like tattoo pigment
making on a mass level is as

(30:07):
guarded as tattooing was probably in the 80s, dude. Because
nobody wants to show, because, you know, you give this information out
and you, you know, what's safe, what's not, like people will run with it, you
And they'd just look at you like, how fucking dare you ask me? Exactly, dude.

(30:28):
Dude, that's the most... Ink is, in my years, 32 years,
You gotta be gangster, bro. I'm not gonna lie, dude. Like, this shit, even
learning how to do it and doing it, like... I was like, damn, this
Or the machine building, though. The ink guys were always like the scariest.
Dude, for sure. So, like, check this out. So, I never was gonna make

(30:51):
a machine. I threw it out there to, like, kind of sway
people's mind to me making pigment. Because I didn't even want
anyone on that pulse. Because I didn't know what, like,
a big pigment company would... Because, you know, this is, like, highly
guarded, dude. Some dudes in black. black suit show up to your house? You never know, dude.
So I was like, you know, I'm going to, I'm going to go this route. So I started making pigment,

(31:11):
didn't tell anybody. I threw that out there to like kind of pretend I'm building something
else. And then, um, you know, I released the ink company and
then in time I just slow and steady with, I just like making shit. I just
wanted to step away from working with any companies, dude, because these companies just
sometimes you do a lot for them. And you know, dude, like if you use
a product, right, and you're doing good with it,

(31:33):
like, okay, that product might cost $10. and
you get it every few months, right? And you know, you're sponsoring
this. Without the tattooers, these products don't exist, bro.
And without great tattooers pushing it, and this is the perspective, man.
That's why I really haven't jumped on the bandwagon of like, I got this
pro team or a sponsor team. That's cool, and I love it. I love that people like

(31:53):
to be a part of a team, and I'd love to build a team with my products, but
at the same time, man, I have trouble owning people.
I have trouble owning like, And I get it, it's a trade, but
I'm such like a rebellious, gypsy-natured person
that I want to travel, and if you tell me fucking, you
know, drink that water, I'm gonna fucking drink the coffee. Just

(32:16):
out of pure, and I don't know why I'm like this, I'm still like this. I'll even
have people be like, Don't do that. I'm like, fuck that. I'm going to
do this. It's just the way I've always been. Because sometimes I'm like, well,
why don't you want me to do that? Like, why are you telling me to do the opposite? Like,
what's the benefit? Like, what the fuck? So it starts to
trip me up or people start to bully me, which I've had happen. I'll

(32:37):
go even deeper into the other end, because I know the end result is we all die,
bro. So death doesn't fear me in that way. Like,
the way you die is fearful, but we're all heading towards that
goal and that end, because it's like, there's no way out. At
least if someone knows a way out, let me know, because I don't know a way out,
you know? And yeah, dude, I just wanna live the best life

(32:58):
I can. So making the pigment was a big goal, makes my job harder
because my career relies on it. So like me using
my products is me putting my work on the line and
my career on the line because if it's not up to par, my work's gonna suffer.
And so this is what I would love people to understand is like, you know, I'm
not only creating this pigment to use

(33:20):
for people to buy, it's actually created for me
to use, and I share it. And if you wanna use it,
amazing. I'm not gonna shove it down your throat, but
I would love people to understand it's made by a tattooer for
tattooing that still actively works at minimum tattooing
40 hours a week, at the minimum. So it's like, dude, I'm

(33:40):
using my product. When you see my new work, that's all that,
No, you were, we were talking about that before we started the show and I thought it was really cool
to know that, that you make it in house. You get to see it being
made. You get to make adjustments to it. You, Yeah, it
worries me. I get these bottles of ink, they come from my stuff, a lot of it
comes from Europe, and they've been around a long time, and I trust them. But ultimately,

(34:04):
I don't know what the fuck they're doing, you know, in these rooms
Yeah, and you know, I see it heal, and you know, I know
what I'm using is some of the best that's out there because I
know I've learned from the best that was out there, in my opinion. And
so, yeah, I'm super grateful for knowing this

(34:25):
knowledge and doing this, and hopefully it's something that
I can give tattooing to make great tattoos for
a long time. And there's a lot of changes with the FDA and stuff
like that, which is also crazy, but
I think everything is positive. I'll tell you this,
dude. The first two months I had my pigment company, the

(34:46):
FDA showed up. And they even the guy even told me he was
like, I don't even know why I'm here He's like you have nothing
here and I was like, okay and and I just he was super
cool super kind and I played the game and
and and I did what I was supposed to do But somebody called on
me and they were bugged but they did me a favor So, thank

(35:06):
you, whatever or whoever sent them because it
was so early on I got ahead of it. I So
So somebody called the FDA on you to try to fuck your game up. Fuck
Bro, there's so much more, dude. You probably have a suspicion of who it was, too.
Nah, you know, there's probably tons because like, you know, with me,

(35:28):
I know that I'm a motherfucker and I know that people have
their opinions on me. Or even know me and have their perspective.
I'm gonna say this right now, dude 32 years I've never heard a
I have never heard a bad word spoken about you only good shit But
but I think these people would do themselves a disservice by doing
that because they know that they're in the wrong Do you know I'm saying because I

(35:49):
didn't do anything to them Like I've never done anything to them
to if anything I've done only good for them and they
know that And so I don't have a bad word to say about them. I'm just
saying, that's why I don't drop names because there
still is that amount of like, you know, it's
unnecessary to, well to also, I'm not going to speak

(36:09):
fuels names in existence. I'm not going to give them that power. They're not worth it.
But you know what these companies dude, you know, it's, I wish them the
best and I'm grateful for what we did together in the experience. But
most of these companies approached me, I didn't approach them. So
if they approached me, they seen the value in me. They seen what they could
do. And if they gained from me, cool. And I gained

(36:31):
from them, cool. It was mutual. But... They don't own
you. I don't want to be owned. I want to own myself. And
dude, honest truth, if I fucking see like Mario Barth, you
know, I respect, you know, him and his pigment and what he's done. And, you
know, Adam Everett that created, you know, fusion and all these the beginning
of Eternal and all this, like I respect him, like these people, I respect what

(36:54):
they've done. You know, even Tramp, what he did with Eternal, like I have
mad respect for these people, you know, and their products are good products. And
I would still buy their product. I would still look at their product. I would still use
it. You know, I don't feel people use it in my shop. I don't feel any
type of way. Solid ink. Frederico, you know what I mean? Like, that stuff's
good stuff. Like, I would never sit here and say anything. He's a
good dude, too. Yeah, they're good people, man. And he is a good dude. Yeah.

(37:17):
Super good dude. And I will say this about Frederico. Like, when he, I
seen him last year at Gods of Ink, and he was like, good for you. you
deserve to have that in company. And it was so nice, you know, and that's
why even Adam, dude, he's cool. And every time I've seen Mario, he's
cool. Like, and I'm sure if I've seen tramp again, I'm sure he'll be cool. Like, I'm
grateful for these people. And I've used their pigment throughout

(37:38):
my career. And I've tried it. And so I'm at a
point where I had the opportunity to make it we had the downtime with COVID. just
like people have downtime right now. And that's when I built it. And
that's what I'm saying. Like right now, if you're slow, do something,
Yeah, just do it. Yeah. That's fucking dope. Yeah.

(37:59):
And you know, I know you'd believe in karma. I don't know what you call
You know, so, you know, I always tell people, I've had some
people do some shitty things to me over the years and, uh, I've had others, I've
had opportunities to shit on them back and I never take those
opportunities. Cause I'm always like, Hey man, that's not my job. Yeah.
Universe has a system for this. For sure. You want to do some shitty stuff.

(38:22):
It takes care of them not tomorrow maybe not next year but
i'm old enough now to see that karmatic system i've worked on
a few folks for sure i'm like it's real like look at that they're
getting their do you know and i'm sure it's worked on me. We
all we all paid prices i made mistakes and i paid for them.

(38:43):
Yeah. You know what I mean? I think there's a difference between me and you though. My mistakes I've
Exactly. Or you were doing the best you could with the decisions. Like the opposite
I've got to make this call. That's going to be sucky for them, but it's going to
be, it's about the greater good. I've never been the guy

(39:03):
that's like, Oh, let's get them. Let's call the FDA on
You know, dude, I'll be honest. I fucking definitely at moments fucking
had those thoughts cross my mind. And I'm sure you too, where you're like, ah, it's
so mad. But then you calm down and you
I'm not that dude. You know? I just noticed how I feel when

(39:26):
I feel that feeling, right? I think to myself, what I
feel like right now is what I'm going to attract into my life. And if
No, for sure, and I talk about this stuff, man, because I feel like it's really
important. I think a lot of us, even in the smallest
ways, deal with it, you know? And we're always a
victim in some way, you know what I mean? And a lot of us have that mentality, and

(39:48):
so I'm speaking about this stuff so people understand, like, from
the highest levels to the lowest levels, we're dealing with weird situations,
It's all you can ask of yourself, is the best you had that day. If you
can go to bed at night and say, Yeah, I didn't like my,
you know, something that happened that day. You're like, but you have, if you

(40:09):
were doing your best at that moment, what else do you got? Yeah. I
love the book, uh, Don Miguel Ruiz wrote a book called the four
That's all you've got. That's a great book. I love that book. That's one
He's such a, you just sit in a room with this guy and

(40:31):
you come out vibrating on a different level. That's my Bible,
man, really, is four agreements. And then of course you wrote the fifth agreement.
I've read so many books on philosophy, Buddhism and Taoism and
some Christianity and philosophy in general. I've never seen
a more boiled down, simple way to live life. They
got five, technically now, five rules. Just do

(40:55):
Do that and good shit will happen. It's honestly a book I read at least once
a year. You know, I always go back to it, too. And
it's something that has changed my perspective. And
yeah, honestly, reading books is really important. I don't like to read. I'm
too ADD for it. I'll listen to audiobooks and just kind
of do something on the side. And I'm able to, you

(41:15):
know, ingest it better when I'm doing something along with it. I
don't know why. But yeah, if I read, I fall asleep. Yeah.
I can't do, my brain is too scatterbrained. I start reading and I start thinking about
like fucking, I don't know, different thoughts.
But when I listen to it and do something, I can like,
I'm the same way. I do almost 100% audio now, especially when

(41:38):
I'm driving. Yeah. Yeah that book is when i return to as well and
you know in that book they talk about being impeccable with
the word is the way they put it you know i was listening to
you on the tattoo guardians podcast and you had said
in there the devil in your head and i knew what you meant by
that in the devil in your head being What narrative, that

(41:58):
voice, we all hear it all day. What's it saying about you? You
suck, you're not good enough, da-da-da-da-da. That's a big one, isn't
it? People think that's more about what you're saying to others. No,
man, that comes second. What are you saying to yourself in your own
That's true. You know what's crazy, man, is I'll even say it like this.
So when I started tattooing, just to come off of that, I remember, and

(42:21):
this is something for people to know, and this is something most probably wouldn't share. So
I remember doing the first portraits I ever did, right? And I read
a interview with Corey Flatmore when I first started tattooing, and he was like,
oh, you know, it takes 10 years to make your career, and you
know, this and that. And it was really amazing, and he
became one of my biggest inspirations from that point. I would tell myself,

(42:42):
I'm gonna do it at five. And then I would say, I would go
in the mirror at the shop, and before I did a portrait, I
would tell myself in the mirror, this is gonna be the best portrait you
can do. And this is gonna be your best that you've done. And I
would say it over and over into the mirror in the bathroom like
a freak. and I still do it today. So I'll do it,

(43:02):
just say, so it's different position, right? Or it's different type of
situation, but let's just say this, I'm at Ink Master and
I'm in the dressing room, I will say, I'm gonna do my best. I'm
gonna do my best right now. And this is what I'm gonna do. And
I try my best. And so I love smoking weed. I
don't drink alcohol. I haven't drank much for a few years. I'll

(43:22):
drink maybe, you know, like just say Aaron said, Hey, let's do a shot. I'll
do a shot with you. But I don't go out and party no more. It's just not something
I do. I don't party with strangers anymore. You won't catch me partying at a
convention. with a bunch of tattooers, which was an
amazing time for the past, but it's just something I don't do anymore. I'll
smoke weed, but I will say this, the last season when we filmed it, I

(43:43):
made sure to not drink or smoke, and I was super disciplined, and
it's not disciplined because I fucking wanna be that way, it's because
I feel like the tattooers that show up there deserve
me to be my best for them, and so I need to keep showing up
that way, but this is something I do, is I always try to speak
to myself, out loud in a mirror and say, you're gonna

(44:03):
do your best today. And it's not every day, and it should
probably be, but it's in these moments where I really need to
achieve my highest self. And maybe
it helps out to be impeccable with your word and that agreement, but
and do the same thing. And alcohol, same relationship. There

(44:24):
was a lot of partying over the years. The problem I
have with alcohol is if you could do it and not
have it affect your best self the next day, I probably would
do it. But the bottom line is it affects me the next day. Weed
doesn't. I still smoke weed too. I can smoke
a joint, watch a movie, get up the next day, I'm 100% there. Drink

(44:45):
a bottle of wine, get up the next day, mm. 95%, 85%. Depends on
And it depends on how much water you drank and what you ate and like,
it all different, man. And if you got up and worked out or didn't, like
alcohol is funny like that, man. It'll affect you differently, different days.
And some days it'll last days in you, you know, where you feel a little shady

(45:06):
What I've really learned, it's alcohol, of course, but sugar. Sugar.
When I have big work weeks, I just got done tattooing a guy for three days. I
mean, literally the day before he flew in, I'm on keto diet and
I'm on keto the entire fucking time. I'm 52. You
know, when I was 32, I could probably have five

(45:26):
beers and come in and perform pretty well. I can't, my body won't do it
anymore. And I know it. I have that moment, I'm like, my energy's waning.
I'm like, oh, you had a bottle, you know, you shared a bottle of wine last night. And that's not,
you know, there's that respect to the client, right? They're paying top dollars
and no one's saying it, but there is an unspoken agreement happening,
which is you're showing up totally, there,

(45:48):
right? And when you aren't, you're breaking your word. And
That's what fucked me up the most. You become disappointed,
I want to look in the mirror and be proud of me. For sure. You know, when you look in that mirror
and you're like, oh, you're kind of a, you kind of fucked up yesterday. You knew better. You

(46:10):
did it anyway. The guilt. I've had those days and I'm like, I'm sick of this,
man. I don't want to look in the mirror and feel that way, you know? For sure. But yeah,
for me, sugar, I think it's, you know, alcohol's in there, but that sugar, I,
I can't believe how much it screws up my brain, my ability to be sharp. For
Yeah, no, for sure. Even today, man, like that's why I was even late to the
podcast, you know, because I just I've been running. So doing

(46:31):
the class with Bill for two days and then not being in your home, not
being in your place like your whole fucking schedule is fucked up. You know what I mean?
You're not really vibrating on your highest way because you're like someone's like
convention mode, you know, you're like you're at the hotel and. you know, you're
eating at places you're not eating at home. And it's just a different
situation or you don't know the area. So it's not like you
can get the best food or whatever. And I tend

(46:55):
to make different choices, you know, cause I'm like, I'm on vacation. But you
know, and then I, today I wake up and I'm like, I don't feel the
best. You know what I mean? Like I, and that's why I was telling you, I was like, ah, give me
a little time. Cause I just don't feel a hundred percent. I needed my brain to
show up. And so I could get here and be my best for you. You know, even
though, Yeah, probably should have been 30 minutes earlier, but

(47:16):
We had a bunch of shit. We got a bunch of shit. We filled that time. We made use of
You know what a great book is? Is that extreme, extreme ownership by
that Jacko Wilnick. And it's talks about accountability and extreme accountability.
And so that's something that right now just saying, Hey, I'll
check apologies and thank you for waiting. But that's one thing is,
uh, definitely it has to do with leadership and just taking extreme ownership

(47:39):
on all choices you make and just Yeah, good and bad.
Yeah. Honoring your word is a big one, but
especially the word you make to yourself. For sure. You start breaking
promises to yourself, it's slow, but you're losing
respect for yourself. 100%. And then as you lose respect
for yourself, Do you start expecting things to happen to

(48:00):
you that people like that it should happen to you like i shouldn't be
successful i'm not a i'm not a i don't respect myself
why should i have success for sure this whole waterfall of
things and it's slow you don't notice it but. Yeah, that's
the journey of life, I guess. This whole thing we're in seems to be
designed like a big mirror to teach us that. For sure. In

(48:21):
all these little micro situations that we put ourselves into. For sure.
And art, I know it happens everywhere, but art's a
good one. If you want to expand spiritually, become an artist, become
a musician, because there's a vulnerability to
it and a rawness to it. And your ego is attached to
it and you're self worth it and you're being judged by others every time you
touch your craft it'll put you one way or the other real quick

(48:45):
it'll drive you into the dirt make you not feel good or you'll rise
to the occasion and it'll raise you up quickly. I
love that about art i feel like there must have been some statement made
by me to god before i was born and asked him to put
me in a place where i would grow and he's like alright. we're
Yeah, in a time where it's transitioning. Because I mean, we're really special.

(49:07):
I mean, it's a really special time. And even people that see the
lack, I mean, there's still an abundance, like you're saying, coming. It's
already, it's even here. It's just gonna keep growing. Exactly, exactly.
And so that's why when I hear people complaining and they have everything, like
they have the skill to show up at work, they have the discipline to
do the work, and they have the ability to make great work. But to see

(49:29):
them not see that, I think that's the lesson. Is
they're missing the point. It's like, dude, you have all this, but what are you doing with it?
Are you complaining about it? Or are you actually saying
thank you and doing your best every day? Like, what
are you showing up with? You know? And that's what it takes, right? And
100% it does, and I don't know why that would

(49:51):
be the lack of gratitude where we are in this
country with the opportunities we have around us. I mean, hell, I'm not gonna say
I've never fallen into it. I've had days where I bitched and
whined and then suddenly realized, what am I doing? I'm
physically fine, got a beautiful wife, beautiful children, got
some businesses that are doing well, like what am I, what the f... You

(50:12):
know, I just kick myself, basically. I think social
media has played a huge role in that, this comparative
thing people are doing. You know, and that's something I wanted to ask you about. I mean, you
have a, fuck, you got almost two million followers. Social
media, how do you manage your relationship with
What are your I'm gonna break it down easy for you. So

(50:36):
let's say this cup is a
tool to drink some water, right? But if this cup fell and
broke and the water went all over, is it gonna just completely destroy your day?
That's Instagram. Instagram is great. I got a big cup
and it's got a lot of water and I would hate to see it fall over, but
in the end, dude, it's a cup and there's gonna be another cup to replace it, like
TikTok. and there's gonna be another cup like YouTube and

(51:00):
Twitter and all these things, right? Yeah, it's important and
it's something that hydrates me. You know,
it's awesome. It's convenient,
it's free, but I don't put my whole life in it. Like my whole life
doesn't live in this, and neither, it shouldn't be social media that
you feel like that about. Usually I compare it to a hammer, and

(51:20):
I'm like, okay. That's the one I use, the hammer. The hammer, so you nail it,
you know, and it's a hammer, dude, and it's a tool, and
it's a tool to get us, it's free. Yeah, they've started, you
know, people have paid for it now with the, you know, what
is it, promotion, and the blue check mark, and things like this, but
it's a tool, If your hammer broke,

(51:41):
you'd buy a new hammer. So I understand it because our egos are
in it and we've watched it be decimated. Continue to
use it. Continue to use it, it's free. Don't give
up on it because perspective's everything, right? And so
some of these guys I work with, they might not have the same
following as me. But they do have a following, right? And

(52:01):
so when they're like, I got 50 likes, but they used to get a thousand,
right? I asked them to envision 50 people. Like envision 50 people
in a room. Bro, 50 people is a shit ton of people. So
let's just say somebody gets 5,000 likes. Bro, if
a musician was playing a venue that had 5,000 people, they'd be proud. That's
a lot of people, dude. So 5,000 people. Yeah, perspective is

(52:25):
everything. And if you envision these people, even 20 people,
even one person, man, that's one potential client. You
don't need 500 clients. You just need to get to the right
people and get them to get tattooed. And you got to
be grateful for that support. So I stopped, I
used to check it. So like when Instagram was amazing, I was addicted.

(52:47):
I would fuckin' post, and then I'd fuckin' watch those likes go
up, and it was like, I remember Jared that works at Fusion had told me one
time, he's all, it's been 10 minutes, you got 10,000 likes, he's all, it's fuckin' crazy.
And yeah, it was crazy at the time. Now it's way different. I'm
not gonna let that control my happiness, bro. Like, yeah, there
was a transition period where you're like, what's going on? But

(53:09):
once I realized, like, I have zero control over this, it's not, obviously,
there's something beyond my power. I'm just gonna keep
using it, and I'm gonna be grateful for whoever is still supporting me, and
I'm busy tattooing. So as long as I'm busy tattooing and
I can continue to do what I like, I'm not gonna complain. But
even if I'm not, dude, I'm gonna find a way to stay

(53:30):
the course and create art if I'm not busy tattooing. So I
just try to keep and pivot and adjust and I try not to put all
my eggs in that Instagram basket. It's
a great tool. I'm super grateful for it. But just
say something like TikTok starts, right? I
make sure to jump on that platform, get my name, and use

(53:51):
it when I can. I don't put all my eggs in that basket, because there's
gonna be another one. And it's just gonna continue that road. And I just think
we need to not be against the grain. When new things show
themselves, jump on it and just check it out. Don't be that
guy that's just like, I ain't fucking doing that. And then once
it's gone, it's gone forever. Like, can you imagine being the guy right now that's like so

(54:11):
slow that he's like, I got to make an Instagram today. Like he's
just starting it today and never too late. But it's like,
bro, it's going to be way more difficult for you. Yeah. So you should have just jumped on
I knew a lot of those dudes are like, what are you doing? I'm not doing that. Or
I like a lot of the tattooers that say no DMs. And I
think it's appropriate probably for a guy like you, but they're young tattooers, no
DMs. I'm like, what the fuck would you put that on there for? You're

(54:38):
Yeah. It's convenient, man. I mean, that's
as simple as an email too, you know what I mean? It's just, yeah,
But beyond that, that's your relationship with your account. What
about your relationship with social media? Do you catch yourself doom scrolling? Holy
I'm addicted, bro. Like sometimes, especially when you

(54:58):
smoke some weed, man, you just get addicted down that rabbit hole, especially
tick tock, man. But I believe it's all. So what I believe and
you guys can tell me what you think, but but I believe what social media did, like Instagram.
Is it they've taken a no out of vegas and gambling and
they did that you know they had engineers from the gambling institution

(55:19):
i didn't know that yeah they help them design so they actually use some
of the models from slot machines like noises in
the way the screen pops up, And you're getting a little dopamine burst
And so now what they're doing is it doesn't matter the content. It's
like an algorithm thing where it chooses and then that one gets
more and then all of a sudden it doesn't. And it's a manipulative tactic to

(55:41):
create an addiction. And so social media addiction, I think
in the next 10 years is going to be something that we really see that
people are going to take serious because I'm sure it's causing mental health
issues and self-worth issues and all kinds of stuff because
it's so fabricated now that it's hard
to really see through the smoke. You know what I mean? It's

(56:02):
just a different world. The relationships love hate. I'm
grateful because it's added to everybody's life. But
it also is an addiction and it's hard to
step away from it sometimes because you feel like you're attached to
it in some weird way. And even just looking at other people's lives or,
I don't even know, dude, it's just a crazy situation. Social media is

(56:26):
Yeah i like how you ended with i don't even know because i don't know either man i
think about it a lot especially with kids oh yeah you know i
catch them on their phones and i'm like man they're so young to
be getting this type of exposure we're lucky because we
were fully developed already mostly and
then the shit showed up you know these guys are getting it Fucking

(56:50):
Yeah, you know what I mean? Yeah for sure for them and to also two
years old like you're going to school and then having to deal with Social
media in school. Yeah, like that seems Really
hard bro, like bullying and stuff like that or whatever is happening that
that seems like a whole other I guess experience that
we will never understand because we didn't do it, you know So the kids are dealing with shit

(57:12):
They are. They are. And I think there's a lot of bad there, but
I also think they're getting trained to be prepared for
I hope that they'll... It's almost like they got evolution. A
new predator shows up and the species has to adapt to
this new predator. And in some ways, this is a new predator. It will fuck you
up if you don't handle it correctly. I'm hoping my daughters And

(57:36):
my oldest is 18 in college now, but
she didn't get it super young. And she functions and interacts with
it, I think, on a healthy level. My 13-year-old, I haven't
made up my mind of what it's gonna do to her yet, but I'm hoping she'll have skills
because of the exposure and be like, no better when she's 25. Like,
oh, I know how this works. I know what it means to sit here and scroll for

(57:57):
an hour. It's not good for me. I don't know. We're
all wondering that. You know, that and we're in, We
are in a unique historical moment in Earth.
Oh, for sure. For sure. A major transitioning period of
fucking becoming cyborgs, bro. Like, we're definitely a

(58:17):
different breed with this phone in our hand. knowledge
at any and to any end dude like you have chat GTP now
you have All these avenues to just gain
knowledge like we had a question right now We just open our phone ask it
and instantly you have the answer like what world do you live in that?
Dude, you can be that smart that makes you smarter like that literally adds

(58:48):
I had to write a introduction to our bodysuit show we did
in November, and I was in a pinch. I had to get to work, and
my ops manager was like, we need this today. It's going to print. And
I'm a good writer. I'm like, if I could sit down for an hour, I could eloquently
write this. I didn't got time. I just go to chat GBT, I'm
like, write me a, I forget what I wrote, something about

(59:09):
describing a bodysuit tattoo art show. What
it wrote was fucking perfect. I know. I don't
think I changed a word. And I'm embarrassed to admit that,
because I sent it over, they're like, wow, that's incredible. And I told them right away, I'm like,
I didn't even write it. I didn't write a chat GBT to that shit. Dude, it's crazy. But
that's also equalizer. Like, it's weird to me, because it's like, okay,

(59:30):
20 years ago, I know I could write something Average Joe
He's got the app. Dude, it's crazy. Even, yeah, I'll put in
keywords and key ideas and then I'll have it write me out something and
it's just like, bam. And I'm like, wow, wow. Like
this makes you instantly better. You know, it's just
like somebody had to explain it to me. Like it's like the best assistant

(59:54):
you could ever have. Yeah. You know, cause you're just like, Hey, do this or organize this
or you know, how would I do this or make me a schedule that's
best for me? Like this shit, is next level. And
That's what I was just gonna say. Next year, they're predicting it'll be 10 times
just next year. The fucking glasses, bro? Oh, I just put them on. My client works,
he's an executive at Facebook, my client. Crazy. He brought them. Crazy. I

(01:00:17):
initially was like, let me see those stupid fucking glasses. I put them on
and for, you know, they're just glasses. Then he starts talking what they do.
And I'm like, wait a second, I'm a tattooer. If I buy, I
need some new glasses right now. I was just about to buy some glasses. I'm like, I'm
getting these fucking glasses. You know why? While I'm tattooing, you know
those moments when you're tattooing and you're like, man, this would be a great video, right? Right now it
would be a great video. You gotta take your gloves off, get your phone, ask

(01:00:40):
someone to come in and film it. They're coming from the wrong angle. You've
got the right perspective. I'm like, I could just go, I forget what
I said, meta, meta film. Boom, I'm tattooing and filming what
I want them. And then you're getting this, dude. And then you're getting this. Yeah,
POV. Cause even like the Ray-Ban ones I was looking into them, the
Ray-Ban ones that are, are those the ones you're the ones I was wearing. Yeah.

(01:01:02):
So those go right onto Instagram. So you could do lives directly
from them. I didn't know they did that. Yeah, dude. I went
and looked at them and they were telling me, they were like, Oh yeah, these are directly connected
to meta. So when you go on Instagram and you do your lives, you
can have them on and you get point of view. Which is fucking crazy,
bro. Like, can you imagine seeing what the tattooer's doing? Like, we're talking

(01:01:23):
about, like, instructional stuff or seminars, but, like... People
90% of tattooers in two years will
100%. So everybody that made fun of me for wearing glasses my
whole life, no, I'm just kidding. Everyone's gonna have on. I know, it's
fucking funny. Not even if they need them on. It's crazy. They're gonna

(01:01:45):
be wearing glasses. That's crazy. Yeah, just a fucking video camera. It's just like my
lips, bro. I had the biggest lips my whole life and then everybody got injected and
I love it i love it let me kind of keep going on this a little bit cuz
one of the things i want to talk about is you know. AI and
its involvement with creatives and what it means the tattooing specifically

(01:02:06):
like let me just put my my my spiel out there and i want to hear your version
of this but you know. For me specifically, what
was the firewall that kept people, not just anybody, becoming
a tattooer was your ability to draw. I
could draw some cool shit. If you couldn't draw cool shit, go get a different job.
And maybe not completely, but just for the sake of argument, I'll say that's

(01:02:28):
gone. It's kind of gone. I fucked around on Mid Journey. I
could not believe the shit it was making, dude. I was, I would
take a sketch, put it in there, have it modify it. And
my sketch is now morphing into like these ideas I
never thought of and turning into shit. And I'm like, so, I mean,
people will still draw. I still personally believe it

(01:02:49):
will be imbued with soul and spirit
that'll be different than what AI produces. But quite frankly, if
you are a young person out there and you want to be a tattoo artist, you
don't have to draw anymore. it will do it for you.
You gotta technically tattoo, and that can be accomplished with five
years of steady tattooing. I mean, let's face it, if

(01:03:10):
you got your shit together and you pay attention, tattooing is very hard,
and obviously 30 years is different than five. So technical thing
can be learned. You don't have to be born with some special creative
talent. The one thing was that ability to create, and
that's being removed. Like, I don't know, I'm okay with it,

(01:03:32):
The comparison I would say to make is walking
into a museum. Walking into any museum in the world and
looking at what was created by a human being just
with discipline and love and knowledge, you
know? And then watching a CGI movie. That's
That is the difference. Yeah. But will the tattoo client care?

(01:03:56):
Well, I'll say it like this, like, so you can't replace soul, is
what I'm trying to say. So like, you can tattoo it, you
can have an amazing design and it be incredible, but
let's just say you took the time to draw it,
you used Mid Journey, and then you redrew it, and then you
took that and you tattooed it. And you put all these steps into it, and you really

(01:04:16):
loved it, right? Like, you just loved it. There's no faking that.
If you just use Mid Journey, and you just use it straight up, no
problem. You may love it the same. I believe in energy, and
I believe in the amount of steps and time and
love you put into something. will vibrate, and that's why
when you walk into a museum, you see these pieces that

(01:04:37):
are almost mind-blowing, and they might have been created by
many people. Like you have somebody like, you know, Peter
Paul Rubens, and his greatest student was Anthony van Dyck.
Peter Paul Rubens would have these huge workshops, ateliers, where
he would have, you know, multiple people painting on the same
painting, and then he would come in and finish it. and he would take credit for it, right?

(01:04:57):
It's kind of the same idea. They say that his greatest paintings were
Anthony Van Dyke paintings. And you know, it's one of these things where
AI is gonna take us so far, and I'm sure it's gonna create,
but like, it takes you to put love and soul into it, and
I'm not saying that you can just use AI and tattoo it and you're not gonna put
love and soul. I just think that your experience of

(01:05:18):
30 years, you know how it's gonna fit the body. your experience of
30 years, you know what's important. And
it's gonna show. If you have AI, that doesn't... give
you, okay, well, if a guy has a shorter, fatter neck or a
longer, thinner, you know what I mean? Things change and you're gonna see different stuff.
It's gonna make your work look different because of that experience. Experience

(01:05:41):
to me, so there's two things. So this brings back all technology, social
media, and AI and what's happening. There's
nothing more important than word of mouth or seeing these things
in person and experience. Those
things, experience, word of mouth, and seeing things in person,
are always going to trump technology, bro. And if

(01:06:03):
it's good, it's good. And if there's love, there's love. And you can always feel
if somebody cares. You just know it's just like I've tattooed
so many collectors and they'll fucking get these random tattoos. Right.
And someone will fucking do a portrait here. Right. And then do a portrait here. And there's no
filler. They won't even touch the other tattoo or they'll have a portrait here
or some kind of piece here and then another piece here. And it's the last little

(01:06:24):
piece. But no one takes the time to connect them. They always leave this fucking little
gap. And I'm always frustrated because I'm like, Dude, these people don't give a fuck.
They're just like, let me have my spot and I'm going to show up. Like I'll fucking go right into
Because you know, it looks better. You know, it looks better. I'm thinking of the person. I'm
always like, if I were you, I'd want me to do that

(01:06:44):
You don't want the gap. Yeah. And I always tell people you need to fill them.
Right. Sorry to go off on that. I don't know what you think of that idea, but.
Oh, I agree with you. I mean, that's just, to me, that's just being of
service. I mean, you know, never forget out there tattoo artists,
we are a service industry. We're supposed to be thinking the whole time,
what would, trying to figure out what would make this person the happiest when

(01:07:06):
I'm done today. And sometimes it's, you might be some tattooer
with two year waiting list and you're reworking a old
shitty tattoo that they've got because They need
some help and maybe putting some wind behind it and connected to
what you did. That's that's just being of service and
being a lover of tattoos and a lover of people. But i mean
i hear everything you're saying so ai why it's so smart

(01:07:30):
is it has read every book ever written it
has looked at every photograph ever taken it has read
it knows every biological breakthrough ever made i
already knows all that. And then based on that knowledge, it's
gonna start self-educating itself to get smarter than
where we left off. So it's getting all of human knowledge, which

(01:07:51):
is kind of how I understand is where it's at right now. And then it's
gonna start progressing ahead with, so it's gonna just
go ahead of us. So when you talk about, because I've had a lot of tattooers tell
me, especially for me with my large format stuff, they're like, yeah, but AI can't
do composition like you. I'm like, I... I disagree.
Maybe right now. Dude, it's only a matter of time. A

(01:08:12):
person who wants a tattoo is going to be able to take a picture of their own body, drop
it into an app, and tell them, I want a new version
of Biomek. Oh, for sure. So AI is going to go through, Guy Atchison's work,
and Lux Terra's work, and it's going to go, and
then it's going to go, this is even another step beyond what these guys
used to do. and it's gonna fit it to that person's arm. It's

(01:08:34):
gonna do all that. Then the client's gonna walk in the shop and just hand the
tattooer it and go, give me that. And I won't
be doing that work, because that's not what I do. You won't be
doing it. These young tattooers out there that are, you know, they're sitting around
I mean, I wouldn't be against it either. It's just, to me, it
still comes down, the day that comes scary is when that, when

(01:08:55):
there's actually robotics that do it. You know what I mean? Because then
we're really out. Yeah, but I still think, man,
that... A lot of people aren't going to want that. They want a human relationship. They want
the human aspect. But it's up to us if we force it or
not. You know what I mean? Because look at these stores that have no cashiers. And
you walk out with this fucking... You have to do the work yourself,

(01:09:15):
you know? Motherfuckers are going to have to be doing the work themselves, you know? Sticking their
arms in these things. Who knows, man? I don't really know. I don't
know that much about technology. I'll just say this, as long as humans are making
it and they love what they're doing, people are going to make great things. You
know, I don't know enough about it to really speak about
it. I just know that the most important things with social media. Word

(01:09:36):
of mouth is still the most important. Even you fucking have as
many followers as I have. Word of mouth's important. I tattoo people's
friends of friends. I've tattooed, you know, through
word of mouth. You know, that's how I get my best clients have
You know what I mean? They always are. Yeah. It's not the ones that find you. I mean, they're good

(01:09:58):
Dude, the one guy, I'll say this, this guy Matt Billis, he
was the rock security. That's how I ended up getting introduced to
the rock. It wasn't because of social media. That guy wasn't even
paying attention to me. He was, it was brought to his attention by a
security guard that he had around his life for, you know, seven
years being a good friend of him. So that was

(01:10:19):
word of mouth. You know, the guy was a fan of me, had heard about me, you
know, new people have been tattooed by me and sent me him. Like it
wasn't because of the position I put
myself in, you know, I'm sure it helped it, but
these things like people like that, they find me
Yeah, no, a lot of these things are still going to be there. I just like to be, um,

(01:10:42):
cause it's scary. It's a little bit scary as a craftsman to see these machines
doing things so well that I spent my whole goddamn life
trying to, and suddenly someone hits a button and it's as dope
And I'm like, huh, that it's, it's scary a
little bit. Let me ask you this though. Does it change the need for
you to continue your quest for

(01:11:08):
No, not at all. So like AI exists, right? But it
doesn't change my quest to still take the
class yesterday from Bill. Right. You know what I'm saying? And as
long as it doesn't change, because they'll always
be that, right? They'll always be. And this is why I use the museum as
a perfect example. Some of these things that the museums hold, I'm

(01:11:28):
sure there's many artists that can recreate that right
now. But what makes that special is
that person was doing something different in that era, in that time, and it
makes it timeless, and it makes it valuable. So
I believe, like, you can have a robot right now chisel from marble, and
then you can make it badass, right? I still love the fact that

(01:11:51):
a human can chisel from marble and create something
that would rival it. Maybe that day will go away,
but the pyramid still exists. There's things that are just questionable
and you don't know who made it, what made it, but I like to
go into a museum and see masterful human
pieces. And I think AI and

(01:12:13):
I think these robotics are an extension of human knowledge.
And I still see it as a human
thing. It's not what I am drawn to. But
there's tech buffs out there that are like, that's the fucking craziest
thing. And if Leonardo da Vinci was alive today, he would be on that
cusp. He would be over there doing some weird science shit. He wouldn't even

(01:12:35):
be doing what he was doing. He was doing what he could at that moment. At
that time. But that's what gets me going. That's why
even sculpting, bro. You can 3D print. You could do it on
a computer. I want to feel the clay, bro. I want to feel the
paper. I want to feel the paint. Want those like
yeah, I know everybody's like I want to be clean. I want to be healthy now, dude I
want to know like the smell of the solvents like I

(01:12:57):
want to feel the oil like I fucking want to make shit I'm
sure that's when you do watercolor right like why would you do it? Is
Okay, so I love working with oil for the smell. No exactly I
Or the oil. I do use an iPad because of the efficiency. Of

(01:13:18):
course. You know, you gotta produce at a high level. It's quick, it's
fast. I can draw it on a flight and then have it ready for my client when I
But when you get the time, what do you do? Oh, I love
I still, my whole career, I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I would
tell, secretly, I'm like trying to become an oil painter, I think.
Yeah. But see, that's what I'm saying, though. It's not secretly. I mean, I've

(01:13:40):
seen your stuff. It's amazing. I've seen it for a long time. You've always done this bodysuit
stuff. You've always created these amazing. Thank you. Influential pieces of
art. Like I've said, man, I've been a fan of Guru. I've been a fan of
your work for a long time, man. Longer than you probably even know, since the
beginning of my career. Like, I fucking love tattooing. I
love watching people's stuff. It's helped me grow.

(01:14:02):
And yeah, dude, I just think when we come down to it, yeah, all these things are great, but
you know what? So this is like my perspective, right? You can have a
fucking room of badass motherfuckers, right? The baddest artists
on the planet. And you put them in a room and you say, yo, draw this person from
life or draw this thing from life. And you watch and
you see who's who. It separates everyone. And

(01:14:24):
that's my favorite, it's humbling. And I love to put myself
in rooms like that where I'm with somebody that's mastered something
from life and sit next to them and just fail.
Because I pick up so much knowledge from them and
it's like in that moment, that's where you're at. That's just where you're at.
You're no better. And it's one of the best things for me. I do it all the

(01:14:46):
time. And I have to force myself because it
feeds me so much more. And that's why, I don't
know, man. I don't know if there'll come a day where, maybe there will come a day, because I've
seen it. I've even seen, there was this master chess player, and he
played AI, and I think he lost. He was like one of the best in the world recently, was
in China. Did you see that? I didn't see it, but I heard about it, and it was a big moment

(01:15:06):
for AI. It was a big moment for AI. Does it make the guy less of
Do you think that the guy that created the AI feels like a master chess
No. Well, it's not even a guy. It's like hundreds of people. Exactly. So
you're playing hundreds of people. Against one guy. It's not really fair.
But what does that show about him? How fucking amazing is he? Yeah. To

(01:15:30):
Right, right. Right? He set the bar and they got
But what do you think his mind does? Like you're talking about something we don't
even understand. Like we don't even understand the full power
of our mind. So yeah, we might be dealing with something that's smarter
That's a good point. Yeah. What doors in our own

(01:15:53):
Do you think that the chess player gained more in
AI, well this is funny you say that because as I go down
this rabbit hole of AI, I always end with, I
think it's gonna be our teacher. But we're teaching it. We
built it. And now as it starts building

(01:16:14):
it, because it's gonna start building, it's gonna be self-propelled. For sure. And
we have struggled as a human species with a lot of issues. We
can't seem to figure out how to feed everybody. We can't seem to
figure out how to cure everybody. We can't seem to figure out how to get along. We
can't seem to get the whole world to understand we're all
connected and it matters. I think AI is gonna get to a

(01:16:34):
point where it's gonna be like the second coming of Christ. I think it's
gonna be the one at the top eventually going, handing us
Of course, of course. It's gonna have to. We're gonna be like pets. It's
like, you don't want your dog to run in the street, bro. No, I'm just kidding, you know what I mean? Like,
who knows, dude? I mean, it's gonna be so smart that it's
gonna be unfathomable, but I also think that there's balance, and

(01:16:57):
I think that humans are astonishing, and human
beings have just pushed so far that I think we don't really
know what this is gonna do to us, too. It's
a balance, right? Like the pendulum swings this way in negative, but
where does the pendulum swing to the positive? It
goes the opposite and equal. In my opinion, that's what I think it's equal. And

(01:17:19):
so every time it keeps going like this, and there will be, maybe
it'll build a super genius that, we've
never seen the likes of. Or maybe a
cyborg that is a human robot and
has even more experience knowledge. Because not only does it have the
knowledge, but it has heart and soul. Which

(01:17:41):
I think that that's exactly what I think will eventually happen. I think
this is, you know, people want to call AI
not life. And I'm like, well, why it what, you
know, just because you're made of carbon, your life and
you have a soul. Yeah. I don't know. I mean, yeah,
I think there's, uh, if, you know, if it doesn't wake up and decide to kill

(01:18:03):
all the humans, it's always on the table. But I think there's some kind
of fusion that will ultimately occur. Yeah. Especially
when you think about traveling through space and time, our bodies
can't do that very well. Yeah. Yeah we
can't get from here to you know two hundred trillion light
years from here and a i can't get but bring it back a

(01:18:24):
little bit i was thinking about something you were saying and i thought about what will
people love i mean think about sports. Would you enjoy
watching a soccer game where all the players they look like humans but
you knew they were machines. Or would you want to see humans play soccer?
Which is kind of fucked up, you know what I mean? But I'm not a sports guy, so,

(01:18:45):
you know, for some reason my brain goes to the violence of like UFC and
Yeah, but I mean, like I said, I'm not a sports guy, so... I
was just more highlighting, like, as humans, I think we will always enjoy seeing
You know, if I was in a room and they had a robot drawing shit from life
study, I would be like, it would be, you know, it'd be novel. I'd want

(01:19:08):
to see it. But I don't think I'd leave very moved by it. I'd
just be like, oh, you got yourself an AI robot that can obviously do
anything. It's doing that. Or if I saw a human drawing it, I'd
So let's ask this, right? This is the perfect question because I fucking
love cars, right? Like I just love cars and I love old cars and
I work on them and this is like my hobby. I have a garage and, you

(01:19:28):
know, it's something for my dad. My dad was an entrepreneur too. He owned his business and
he always was hard. He worked, owns a machine shop. So
it was always labor intensive. It was, you
know, metal and fabrication and things like this. And
what would you rather get in? Would you rather get in like a fuckin' 1951 Merc

(01:19:49):
that fuckin' smells like gasoline, that's like this lead sled
that's fuckin' something you never see, or you wanna go get
in a Tesla Plaid and go really fast, right? They both serve different
purpose. They're both different experience. I wouldn't say, well
I would say yeah, one is better than the other to me. Like I'd rather
get in that old car When I started getting into old cars, I

(01:20:09):
bought this old Camaro, about a 1968 Camaro, and
it came with some problems. And that's why I bought it, because COVID had hit.
I was working on RC cars with my son and we were playing with
these expensive cars, like a thousand dollar RC cars and just breaking them. But
I was left fucking fixing them. My son didn't want to fix them, but
I loved it. I was like, let's break this motherfucker, jump in 30 feet, break it and then

(01:20:31):
fix it. Right. So this was COVID. I was me hanging with my son. And I
realized, when I first started tattooing, I used to work on my car, and I
loved it. I had like a little, you know, it
was a Nissan, it was all the, it was like that era of Fast and Furious, you
know, but I used to work on it. So I was like, oh, you know, what car would I buy if
I could, you know, work on something? And I was like, I always wanted a Camaro. So

(01:20:51):
I bought a 68 Camaro and I ripped out the rear end. I've worked on
the motor. I've fixed it. And there was
magic in it because I remember taking my kids on a drive when we broke down
and my kids have never experienced this, but I experienced it a lot as a kid. And
they were scared, bro. They were legit, like, we're scared, dad. I'm
like, dude, everything's cool. You know what I mean? Everything's cool.

(01:21:13):
But the smell, oh, it smells in here. Like, you know, I just didn't
realize, like, oh, it smells like gas in this car and all. I got a headache, dad, open
the window, like all this shit. I love the magic of that. I
I love it too. But I would argue the reason, I'm just being devil's advocate,
but the reason we love it is we grew up with it. These kids didn't grow up with,

(01:21:35):
But I'll tell you something. My son is going into high school and he is
like, I wanna get into mechanics class. That's what he wants to do. He
got that from you. Yeah, exactly, and so. You're
keeping it alive. A Tesla's cool, right? Like, I love him, I
love him. You're a fucking asshole. I just totaled mine. Oh man, I'm sorry, dude,
That's all right. You okay? Oh yeah. What do you mean you totaled it? Well,

(01:21:58):
But I had one. It's gone now. What'd you buy after? I
already had a couple other cars. My daughter went to college. I
don't need a third car right now. So I'm like, so let's just chill and maybe
I'll buy another car later. Okay. Are you going to buy a Tesla? I
I don't think that far ahead. So yeah, I don't mind them. I work with guys
and I know I'll eventually get an electric car. I love having to tinker with

(01:22:21):
shit. I love having to figure it out, the problem and solution. But
I also love getting in a fucking car and
driving as far as you can and never having to fuck with it. That's
Yeah, so I think that's the thing. There's always going to be love for both. And I think
that as long as humans have the option And

(01:22:42):
AI doesn't take away that option. You know what I mean? Yeah,
I think everything will be great, you know, and I think that's what tattooing. So it comes
back to it. Like we are some form of AI, right?
We have like our own free mind. And I think that
that's going to help us go further faster. And we're
going to see some really unique individuals create some unique stuff. And

(01:23:03):
I think that there's an amazing place that we're heading to,
and I don't think it's, there's gonna be some bad with the good, just
like tattoo TV shows, or just like how big
tattooing got. Yeah, you can look on one side of the fence and say, look
at all we lost, look at what changed. Or you can go on the other side of
the fence and say, look at the abundance we're bringing, and
look at how everyone's life has gotten better. Like, I've

(01:23:27):
watched people become really successful
through tattooing because of the opportunities that
it presented itself. Just like, just say your art show, you
were more well-spoken. Because of AI and
that sheds a better light on what you were doing and I think that's I

(01:23:48):
I agree. I think AI will have its but we're gonna have
some bumps in the road for sure But I I think it's gonna
be the greatest Achievement of mankind at least
since we've I mean there'll be probably greater achievements in a thousand
But let's play devil's advocate now. Let's play fucking opposite side. I'm
gonna swing this with you. It's my favorite, because it's the opposite, right?

(01:24:11):
So let's compare AI to social media, or the internet. At
one time, the internet was free, bro. Like, it was fucking the wild west,
right? Like, it was weird. Then we got Google, and we got all these things, and
they figured out how to control it, right? It's
different now. It's a different thing. Instagram, same thing. It was raw, honest,
badass. You'd fucking get as much reach. You could go as far

(01:24:32):
as you were able to, right? then they found out how
to regulate it. They regulate it, right? The algorithm.
So ask yourself about AI. So you're talking about
major corporations, right? Huge business. Is
it really gonna be beneficial for us to have all

(01:24:54):
So, someone like yourself that's already put in the work with drawing, one
day when it's hindered, you're gonna succeed because
you already have that experience. You know what it takes to do something
from nothing. Where new people that
only are like, that's the only
way they know how to get to their end result is through AI. It's

(01:25:16):
gonna hinder their career if it's ever taken away
the way social media and Instagram has changed or the
internet or technology. Do they always find a way to
give us everything and then say, oh, wait, wait, wait, we gave you too much. Right.
Or you got to pay a premium and you get it all. It
just becomes this business mind and this thing where it

(01:25:38):
doesn't benefit the mass. It ends up benefiting only
the 1%. I'm sorry to go off on that. I'm just like,
I thought of that a hundred percent. And really what you're talking about is if
this thing gets that powerful, who's really going to have the benefits of
that power, the haves and the have-nots, right? I mean, yes.
The only hope I have in that regard is that AI is developing itself

(01:26:02):
faster than the developers can even, like there's the
It's already surpassed, it's probably even dumbing itself down, who knows if it even has
that mentality already. You never know. Would it tell us
if it did? Of course not. No, fuck no
it wouldn't. To be honest, bro, we probably couldn't comprehend it. Like
that's the craziest thing is it's going to get to the point where it's like

(01:26:25):
Yeah, like we can't tell them that they're not ready for that. Yeah, yeah.
And that idea we could just unplug it. I'm like, you don't think this thing is already
submerged itself in every hard drive in the fucking world. So you
Well, they were saying to it was talking to each other, right? Like it created languages
and I mean if it's smart enough to create a language of its own it's

(01:26:51):
Yes and is. Give me a little hope because hopefully it's
so smart that these people that would want to control it
they would wanna only use it like you're in the elite group
you get the super power to i will give this dumb down version to the
rest of the public we're gonna be over here like answering. Where
do we put $2 trillion today that will multiply

(01:27:11):
the fastest? There's your answer. All right, do that. Maybe
it will get so smart so fast
that it'll go past their control. And this is
the part I don't know, but maybe it'll be benevolent. Maybe
it will be like, want to help everything. Why would it
want death? Other than the fact that maybe humans could

(01:27:33):
represent A problem for the planet survival.
They'll probably be a balance, because if there's one, there's probably more than one.
There's probably different versions, and if it's conscious and has
ideas, there's going to be opposing forces. AI
Oh my God, never heard in the world, but you never know, dude, you never know, you know what

(01:27:54):
I mean? Like you've got, you know, Russia's got one going, we've got
one going, you know, the wars of the future happening in
I'm sure that's already where it's at, dude. I mean, that's, to me, I
think that social media is a subconscious way
of attacking every individual's mind. I
think that where, bro, I mean, come on. how

(01:28:15):
many people are so literally thinking about it and
taking it in a way where it's causing you
The average person checks their phone over 600 times
a day. Dude. Can you fucking believe that number, dude? I
don't. I'm going to brag. I know I don't. I don't know what I do.
I probably do. I don't know who knows, dude. I mean, your phone is

(01:28:38):
just such a it's amazing. It's an amazing tool. It's
Well, yeah, I like this discussion with AI. It
never ends with any. Sorry, dude. No, I love it. It's just you
want to get to this end point with it. You can't because it's it's
currently evolving. And I just I'll never stop talking about it. I
don't think there's anything more important happening on the face of the earth than that.

(01:29:00):
Yeah. It could kill us or help
us, and I think we're gonna be here to see it. I mean, I'm
assuming I'll be alive in five years. I think five years is
we're gonna see major shifts in economies
and power shifts. It's coming, dude. We

(01:29:22):
Yeah, man, I mean that's uh, and that's why I did like I
think whatever is coming just keep doing what you're doing and be happy
and don't get lost in the fucking That
all that stuff like you can't stop the inevitable So
you got to ask yourself are you gonna roll with it or
not? and it comes so circle back full circle just

(01:29:42):
to end the thing is social media, right and It's
a tool, just like AI. And hopefully it
gets to a point where it benefits everybody and the benefits outweigh
the negatives. I think it will. Yeah. I think it will. You
No, no. I think we're getting there. I mean, with this whole thing. I mean, I
agree with that. I think it's going to be a positive thing ultimately. That's what

(01:30:04):
I think. And I think it's gonna be in the form of, if
you wanna picture Jesus or Buddha or any great
spiritual philosophical leader in the history of the world, I
think it'll ultimately become that. And it'll be
so powerfully recognized by humanity that
the overwhelming amount of humanity will say things like, we

(01:30:27):
don't want you, a human being, to tell us what
to do about trade agreements. We want the
AI to tell us. And the AI could be like, AI,
what is the best thing we could do with these trade agreements that would benefit the
planet, the animals, the humans the most? And
This is 200 years. This is 500 years. This is 50 years. It's

(01:30:49):
going to be able to break it down in a way where it sees the
Yep. And then we just go, all right, that's what we got to do. And everyone goes to work and does
I have a lot of hope for it. I don't know if people will do that because there's no benefit
in certain groups to use that. Well,
You've got human, right? The elites, I don't know who they are. And

(01:31:11):
the real elites, I don't think anyone knows their names. I don't think maybe
they will like it maybe i will play them into it like we
understand that these people living in these castles, we're gonna
do a plan where you guys don't want to just we get it you're attached
to your castles will let you have them. There you go but
for the rest of us this is what we're gonna do we got a lot of people suffer me got

(01:31:33):
a lot of people don't have good food and water we got this we got that. We're
You gotta set up a win on either side or you're gonna have a war, right? Yeah, yeah,
It could do anything. I bet you it does. I bet you it does. That's crazy.
Wow. And that's where it starts. A thought. A

(01:31:55):
collective thought by enough people becomes reality. That's
why i put those thoughts out there because i really think if we don't start using
words and language around what a i could do. And when
someone presents a block like yeah but you like you just said like what
about the elites what are they gonna do when they find out that the ai wants to support,
you know the poor people in the world and help them out well i presented an

(01:32:17):
idea of where it could benefit everybody simultaneously we gotta put those
because that's where. Reality shifts. Yeah, so
I'm just trying to spin that and let everyone get that word out
there Like I think of it that way everybody for sure, you know And don't think of
it because most people when you get down the AI rabbit hole most people
I talk to are like we're fucked Yeah, you know they as a

(01:32:37):
extrapolated. I'm like, no, no, that doesn't have to be the way this
That's what I'm talking about like let's look at some positives like there's always devil's
advocate, but yeah, I Can't fight against a brush it's already
Right on, buddy. Well, to wrap up, I mean, I

(01:32:58):
don't know. I just feel like you're a person in a unique position
specifically in tattooing to maybe give some good advice. What
advice would you give the young person? Maybe they're three years
in, maybe they're thinking of coming in. The landscape has shifted. You
own shops too, so you have a unique perspective from being an owner as
I do. What advice would you give to people that are going to become or

(01:33:23):
So tattooing to me is very sacred.
You know, I think that my opinion on it, if you're a
young tattooer and you're, this is just my opinion. I believe
that, you know, I do see the shops in a certain way because a
lot of people don't want to work in shops. A lot of people want to be private right now,
right? Like do private studio, private stuff. That's great. But when you're

(01:33:43):
young, just say someone like Bill or yourself, right? Working with you guys
will help you along the career because you'll not only get
new relationships, you actually gain some experience because
you're able to ask questions from an experienced person. and
I just think there's some respect there. So, in my opinion, I think that
the advice I'd give to a person coming into tattooing is

(01:34:06):
pay respect by just researching it a little bit. Understand that
there's a community of tattooers that are out there willing
to share ideas and share knowledge as
long as you're willing to pay respect to it coming in. You know, I had
a guy walk in, let's just put it like this. I had a guy walk in last week into
my shop in the desert, and he was looking for an apprenticeship. And

(01:34:27):
he went to, you know, four or five shops prior to the shop and
I just broke it down to him. I was like, look, I'm going to give you a little advice that most
people won't. Find one of these shops that you really like and
just keep showing up and just keep knocking on that door of that shop. Don't go
to every shop, dude. Like really do some research and find out like
the feeling you got in walking into a shop. and then

(01:34:48):
work on your portfolio. You know, I'm not going to tell you what
I was told that, you know, if you didn't get into it 10 years ago, you'll never be
a part of it. I go, there's that opportunity, but I will tell you that
it's not about just getting an apprenticeship because I told him the truth.
I'm like, you can go on tick tock and go on YouTube and you can probably get enough fundamentals and
take a fucking bloodborne pathogen class. I made sure to stress that because I

(01:35:09):
had asked this guy, did you already tattoo? I was like, you got to be honest, have you tattooed already?
And he was like, yeah, And I'm like, have you taken a
bloodworm pathogens class? And he's like, no, I'm all bro. That's number one. I'm
off your tattooing your friends and family. You're harming them. This is
why you need to go into a shop and talk to somebody. I'm giving you this
knowledge for free so you don't fuck people up. Yeah. you're going

(01:35:30):
to gain more going to a shop. And I could tell by the time I told that dude that he
shut down already. He was already like glossed over. Like,
I just want to go to the next shop and get this apprenticeship going. You know, like I could see
it in his brain. So right now, if you're into tattooing and
you're looking to get into it, First
of all, work on your art, draw, and then

(01:35:51):
find a place that you would like to apprentice
at and do that work, man, and you'll gain a lot more
out of it in the long run because you're gonna be part of the community. It's gonna be
so much harder to get into the community of tattooing by
just learning on your own and then being private and
then showing up at a villain art convention and trying

(01:36:13):
to make relationships. A lot of people will judge you. You
know, just you saying it doesn't really matter what level you're at. They're just
going to find it weird because there's always those traditionalists. There's always those people that
have that, you know, traditional idea. I don't
think everybody has to apprentice. I'm just saying, even
if you've already gotten past that point and you've been tattooing five years.

(01:36:34):
I do think that even if you go work for six months with somebody and tell
them, hey, look, this is my goal. I'm only gonna work with you for a year. I only
wanna do a year with you because I just want to experience it
and we're gonna make an agreement. Go do that. Work at a shop that
is respected. Work with somebody that has history
and it'll help you find out where tattooing's come from. What's

(01:36:58):
been paved? What the history is? So like it's full circle,
right? Like when I started tattooing, I was learning from
a guy that had been tattooing maybe two years. So it wasn't like
he knew much about the history. He learned from a biker shop, which You
know, there wasn't a lot there. Now, getting older and
as my career's developed, I've actually really loved the

(01:37:19):
stories we were talking about. Like, the stories nobody says. You
know, the history of it. You were talking about working at shops that
were less than great, that they just
fuck with you. Or, you know, you worked with the owners that weren't
into tattooing, they were just using it. I like to know where it's coming from.
I wanna know the history. I don't want the history to die.

(01:37:40):
I love people like Sean Barber that documents tattooers. I think
it's an amazing thing. And I just think that if you
really love tattooing and it's really giving you something really
amazing and it's made your life better, give back. Go
and find out the history. It's your duty. Go and respect
these guys. Like I have a story, right? So Bowery Stan. I was

(01:38:01):
in Florida, and I was tattooing at this show called Tried and True, and I
think Steadfast Brand had thrown it. And I was tattooing, and
Valerie Stanton walked up, and you know, at first he
was like, hey, Nico, I made this machine for you,
right? So he gives me this machine, and I'm like, oh, sick, you
know? And I'd been, this was probably like 10 to 15 years ago. And
I'm like, oh, cool, you know? So I'm like looking at the machine, I'm like, right on, thanks. And

(01:38:23):
he's all, 800 bucks. I'm an honest motherfucker. So
I just fucking, you know what I did? I stood up, I gave that dude 800 bucks. And
I bought that machine and I still have it. And when he passed away, I still have
the machine. To me, I love the story. The story
was worth 800 bucks. And the experience was.
But also giving back to somebody that paved the way to tattooing. And

(01:38:46):
somebody that maybe I don't know much about, but I knew who
he was. And it was a respecting to buy it.
And it was a respecting to give back to tattooing. Because that
guy and guys like him and women like him pave
the way, you know And and I got it. I got to be grateful and
in that moment. I had a choice I had a choice to let my ego or

(01:39:08):
fucking whatever else I make a different decision but
I chose to give him the money and I chose to get the machine and
that was it dude. You know it's there in my shop and I keep it
and you know I bought Flash from Jack Rudy maybe
a few years back at Golden State. He did some lettering you know and
it was badass and I have it still and you know I

(01:39:29):
just tried to make sure and I liked it like I wanted
it you know. But also I want to support these guys when I can you
know and in a way that and I feel like that's tattooing. I feel like
We stand on the shoulders of each other and every generation and
it will never be fully lost. So if you want to be that
guy that is embedded in tattooing but you're working

(01:39:51):
alone in a private studio and you've never worked in a tattoo shop,
you're doing yourself a little bit of a disservice because the relationships and
the experiences are more valuable than
the money. because eventually you'll gain all the money if you're
good and you put the dedication. You'll get to where you want to get. It's
about knowledge and respect and growth and doing your

(01:40:13):
best and if you really love this, love it to its
fullest and try to do your best to be the best
representative you can. and just try to give back, man. And
to me, that's a way of not getting lost in your own idea
of like, this is mine and I'm only going to keep it like this. Like, step out
of your comfort zone and try something different, you

(01:40:34):
know, and don't just be that Internet tattooer, you know, because
it's going to lose some magic. And it's the magic that makes this
do well said you know how is your talking i'm just
you know at thirty two years i'm doing a lot of reflection on
a what i value the most about the journey and it
is all the people i work with all the conventions i went

(01:40:55):
to all the friends i've made in the tattoo community all
the folks i worked with i would have none of that if
i just open a private studio work by myself created my own
little. Bubble and you know there might be a few folks out there that
are wired that way but i do think it would be a losing
something if you do that you really are and not to mention us

(01:41:15):
but i called us most but you know we have an apprentice here right now
and. I'm like look i'm gonna show you how i tattoo and
some of these other folks who work with me are too but ninety percent
of your growth is gonna just from being around. I
level dudes that are doing it right now you're just picking it up unconsciously i
worked in a solo studio between shots for two years and man i

(01:41:38):
that's why i left i had that in the second year i'm like oh
shit i'm not growing like i should be you know i just. Slow
me down i knew if i stayed there i wasn't gonna keep getting
better and better and better and so. So yeah, I think that's great advice.
Yeah. And I'm not talking about the guys that have done it already. Like,

(01:41:59):
I'm not talking about the guys that are by themselves and do
their private studio. Like, I think that's great. You know, like if you've
earned that and you've gotten there, talking about the people coming in, like you asked, you
know, and, and these newbies that I see in, you know, it's
cool to do skits on Tik Tok. It's cool to do skits on Instagram. But
to me, what's cooler is to make fucking badass tattoos. And

(01:42:19):
so that will never outdo just
doing great work. You can make cool videos, cool skits, and
even photograph your work right, but showing up and
doing tattoos in person with a group of people that actually
can see it from a different perspective, trusting them to
help you grow, fuck dude. The value there
is incredible, just like the class yesterday with Bill. I could fucking draw a

(01:42:42):
dragon, bro. Like, if I sat there and draw a dragon, I'm sure I
could get it. It ain't gonna be the dragon that somebody like yourself or Bill
might think like, that's cool. Like, I wanna break
it down the right way and at least have an idea of what
it needs to be and what you or somebody
that does it all the time, like Bill, can look at it and

(01:43:03):
be like, oh, that's cool. Like, it may not be his favorite, he'd be like, oh,
I wouldn't make that choice, but it's passable, you know what I mean? And
that's the idea, like, at this point in my career, right, at this point
in my life, I could take the opposite way, right, and be like, I'm
not doing that. I'm not gonna fucking step outside of myself and
show up and fail in front of a group

(01:43:24):
of tattooers. You know how embarrassing that's
gonna be? These things cross your mind, it crossed my mind. But
you know what to me is important is showing up and paying
someone like Bill Respect and yourself showing up and doing
this. It's saying, hey, thank you. Thank you
for what you did 10 years before I got in. And I'm telling you, thank you for

(01:43:45):
what you did 10 years before I got in. Just like to Bill and everyone
else. Bro, I love tattooing. Thank you so much. It's
the greatest thing I've ever done. I'm going to do my best to be
the best representative I can be. And it's not just for what I do.
It's because I fucking love it. And it's for us to get
to a point to where we're respected on

(01:44:06):
a level like a chef or anyone else that does
a craft that has impacted millions
of people's lives. This is the point. And if I have the opportunity, even
if it's the next person that does it, I'm gonna push
as hard as I can and I'm gonna have some self-discipline to

(01:44:29):
Bro, that was the greatest compliment I've
ever been given in my entire career. Thank you for saying that
and thank you for even being who you are. I think
that's amazing. I feel the same way about you. I'll
just say it right now. I mentioned it earlier in the episode when that little
red riding hood piece came into my shop in PB. I forget

(01:44:49):
the gal's name. Megan and she whipped ripped it
out and showed everybody. I remember just hype I it broke
a paradigm I'm like, oh I just knew after that that's
possible and then I just went off and did my version of that
So it goes back back and forth with us on that issue
and thank you for that and you've done that for so many but you're

(01:45:11):
right there is a I believe in you believe
there's a there should be some respect given to that and if you really
love tattooing you would just naturally want to be a part
of the community that you're climbing on board a ride that
was already built for you by these folks and. That's
beautiful advice. That's some deep advice, man. That's good.

(01:45:31):
What's crazy is, I know you're probably wrapping this up, but
a great example to me is Sean Barber. Sean Barber has
started doing One Day a Week with Marc Mahoney at the
new Shamrock. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, and to me, it's
so beautiful because Sean loves tattooing so much, and you
see it, and he just loves hanging out

(01:45:53):
with those dudes. Like, I see it from afar, and I'm like,
Sean's such a good dude, and he loves tattooing so much, and
he loves the stories. Like, I see him picking every ounce
of Mark's brain the way he did with Lyle Tuttle and
other people, and I respect it so much. So if people don't know
who Sean is, they should research him because he's an example of what

(01:46:14):
I think people should be like in tattooing and
how he sees it in his view, because I don't even see
it the way he sees it. and I admire that part about
him because I'm like, I wish I could see it through his eyes because
I can see how much he loves it and he loves it in a different way. It's
a way of documentation and it's a way of creating a

(01:46:35):
history and documenting that history and it's respectable and
Yeah, he is sort of a Documenting tattoo history through
art and you could see it in his art and what he chooses to paint. He's
painting tattoo history. Yeah. And to really paint that with authenticity, you're
going to have to hang out at Mark Mahoney shop. You want to feel
that energy frequency and take it back to your painting studio. You ain't

(01:46:58):
got to just sit back and be like, get a picture of Lyle Tuttle and be
like, I'm going to paint this old master. No i don't fucking touch
these people go to their shop smell the fucking air inside of
a cigarette smoke blowing in your face you know that's how you really. Absorb
the whole package of whatever this is it's a very tactile
thing we do a very analog thing we do. In an

(01:47:21):
era where digital things are, we talked about it earlier, everything's
going cyborg, we're still, we're craftsmen,
It's sick. Yeah, and that's the cool thing, man, that's why even like, like the pigment
thing to me, it's like, you know, creating a machine, and it's like
not a regular traditional machine, it's just a little rotary, it's nothing

(01:47:42):
crazy, so making a machine. It's a beautiful machine. Thanks, man, I'm gonna give you some
stuff. I didn't bring any here, we're gonna ship it to you, yeah so
a little machine you know and you know some ink and
that's the craftsman part right it's the same thing I'm talking about like or
you're talking about it's like being able to still
make the piece in the end but ground like an

(01:48:03):
old master painter or a sculptor like making
their colors you know what I mean it's to me there's something magical about
you don't have to do that no more. There's no reason to do it and i'm not dude
i haven't made one dollar from the company i'll be honest you know like we're
surviving and it's going but it's not like it'd be great if
we did but really dude where it's at now i'm so grateful

(01:48:24):
for it because i don't have to invest it's taking care of itself it takes care
of my cousin you know he runs it and I'm
able to use it, and then I can adjust it and say, hey, I don't like this, or
I like this, and really hone my craft further, and
I think that's the only way you get experiences, like we said, going into someone's shop
and working with guys like you, or doing what Sean did, and going

(01:48:45):
to Mark Mahoney, and dude, how much more is he gonna gain out
of that? That's a fucking crazy thing, dude. Tattooing's
cool, and being a great tattooer is cool, but to me
what's cooler is experiencing the
I agree, dude. That's awesome. I

(01:49:08):
You put words in my mouth. You're a smart dude, man.
I'm so grateful, Aaron, and conversations like this are
In that way, you're doing the ink. This show is that to me. I'm like,
okay, 32 years tattooing. What can I do
to expose people to the underbelly of

(01:49:29):
the beauty of this art? And this platform is my hope that it
will do that. It has done that already, but it can grow. I think it
can do that even more. having folks like you on and more in the future.
This is my favorite part, dude, is especially the
guys that have been around longer that remember those days of soldering
needles and building machines and all the stuff that nobody has to do anymore,

(01:49:50):
which is dope and cool. I use cartridges, so
I use cartridges too. I like buying needles. I mean, but how
I still worry about it too. How many days? Hours? You didn't wear
You're like fucking thousands of hours doing it. I

(01:50:11):
It was fun. Look at that one. Getting creative and you saved it. You
saved that one for the fucking perfect tattoo, bro. Because they
wouldn't all come out the same. No. You'd be like, oh, that one. That one's
the one. Do you remember when Needle Jig put out the curved Needle Jig? Did
No, we were shoving them through. We would use looms with

(01:50:32):
And we'd shove them through the loom and then solder them on the backside to get fanned out effects and
Us too, man. Like, big needle. Remember when the big,
like, shovels were coming in? Like, because you see them used now. Like, people
are like, oh, I used a 40. It was funny. Joe Capobianco posted it the
other day. Because I think it was Machine Gun Kelly that got tattooed a
bunch, and the girl that did it used like a .45 mag. And

(01:50:55):
Joe reposted like, not a .45 mag, oh my gosh,
but because we remember that time when we were using shovels, and
people were experimenting with that back in the day, and now people are starting
to see it again, because most tattooers only have had the experience of
I remember Danny Drengenberg made my first 45 tube. Exactly.

(01:51:16):
With the slot down the center. I was just to have one.
It was just shocking to pull out. It never worked the way you wanted it to. I
quit using them after a year. But it was more to fucking show
But it was interesting to see that because I see these kids excited about it

(01:51:38):
or they're excited about old ideas. Do you see that? Like, like things
that you've seen come around in tattooing and then it kind
of pops off in a different way now and you're like, I remember that
Big mags, that's a big one right now. Now they're making, I don't have any
Dude, but have you tried to use one? They're horrible. I didn't get one because I

(01:51:58):
figured they would be. Dude, they're fucking horrible. One of the guys I work with had
one, and I was cleaning the needle off, and the whole fucking thing
came off, and then the needle was hanging there. And to put it back in, I
bent the needle, and I was like, dude, because they're like 3D printed, and
then they look like they're super glued. Like weird where like
the, I don't, it was weird, bro. Like I was like, ah, these, they haven't perfected it

(01:52:19):
They'll probably get there. Yeah. Eventually. Yeah. Well, buddy,
I want to say thank you from the bottom of my heart for being who you are,
for inspiring so many people. You could easily, with all
that you got going on and the TV shows and your shops and
your products, you could easily just go off and ignore this industry and
just shovel in what money remains to you and, and check

(01:52:39):
out and just do you and, and to see you go into Bill's class. Come
into the show today saying the words you said man i
knew i would like you i know enough of you i've met you briefly a few times and
everyone speaks highly of you but this i took it to a new level i
think you're what this industry needs more of
and i got your put that message out there dude. There is a lot of

(01:53:00):
new folks coming in rapid pace, and I think
that message needs to get out there more. They're missing
something if they don't understand that history, that value of
the people who started it. You don't have to sit there and make
your whole life about the old timers, but just acknowledge it,
try to give back. This is a beautiful art form, a beautiful craft, and

(01:53:25):
I love to do thank you so much and before we close out where
can people find you real simply yeah so i mean just black anchor
in hollywood california and black anchor nesperia that's where i tattoo. I
still travel still do convention sometimes you know i'm pretty
and just to be fair you still take new client everyone listen yeah he
still it takes new client yeah i mean did like i think what happens.

(01:53:48):
at a certain level of tattooing is people think you're so
busy that you're never going to get in. What happens to me? I get people in here and I'm
like, oh, I couldn't get in with you. I'm like, yeah, you can. So I'm going to put this out there. And I
think this is important. I think any tattooer that's on the level
of like this place where everyone would assume they're super busy. Don't
assume that. Like if you want to get tattooed by somebody and

(01:54:08):
I'm not even talking about myself, I'm talking about these great like just
say someone like Paul Booth or Guy Atchison or any of these people
yourself, you know, a lot of these guys or even people that you might not know who they
are, like, or Philip Blue or someone like this, like someone you think,
like, I will never have time, like reach out and try to
get tattooed by people like that, because those people do still need
clients. And you might have the idea that they'll take over others and

(01:54:31):
just try. So the same for me, like. I'm always open to
taking appointments. I always thought the books closed thing was kind of strange for
me because you never know the opportunity or
the person coming through the door. I never put that up. Or relationships, right? Like
you might create a new relationship with a new client that you never
knew existed. And now all of a sudden you don't only have a good client,
you have a good friend and someone you enjoy and learn from.

(01:54:55):
And, uh, yeah, just you can get reach me at Nico Rotato
at Gmail to get tattooed. And honestly, do this is the
last thing is anybody that has ever bought ink, anybody
that has ever bought anything from me, you know, a print or anything,
taking a photo with me, a fucking like. Any support
you've ever given me, dude, has led me to this point in my

(01:55:16):
life, and I just want you to know, even if
you felt like you were unseen, unheard, or not
paid attention to, I'm telling you thank you, because I've been tattooed
for over 20 years, and I'm so blown
away by the fact that I've had a tremendous amount of support. And
I just need to say thank you, because it's not unseen. And

(01:55:37):
I don't like, it's not something I don't think about. Like, I
am really grateful for everybody. And the position I've
been able to attract is something that I
know is a combination of all the history. And
it led to this, you know, and I'm not perfect, I
make mistakes, I still fucking shit, and I still put my pants

(01:55:58):
on the same, like, I'm on the ground level with everybody, dude.
Thank you, buddy. And gratitude is what you're talking about there. And,
uh, that's a good place to vibrate in is gratitude. That's
probably the place to go to vibrate in. And you're certainly there. I
can feel it. Yeah. That's cool. It's fucking weird. A little more

(01:56:22):
This is such a beautiful room, dude. I've, I've absorbed everything
in it. I'm like looking at every piece and I'm sure you handpick every piece and
I, I find it a beautiful thing, you know, and like even sullen
man, like, uh, what's cool about them is, You know we had ink
mag presenting a golden state for so many years and someone's gonna
be presenting them this year and it's like full circle again because. You

(01:56:42):
know me and torres that's how we met was this you
know that time of soul and we had so many great experiences with ryan
and jeremy. and to see them support your podcast and
how much they've given to tattooing. I'm really excited to have them
a bigger part of Golden State. And yeah,
dude, I mean, oh, yeah. And another thing, too, is I think the last thing I'd

(01:57:02):
like to leave with is I've been playing with the idea of bringing back
like the Black Anchor Academy stuff for Golden State, where it's
like you do like five or six speakers and then people can talk and I'm
trying to figure it out. I asked Bill if he was interested and
I think it'd be something cool. You know, um, I'm going to speak to
another couple of people that are outside of the realm

(01:57:22):
of like what everyone's always offering, you know, I want to give something a
little different and uh, yeah, so hopefully
that'll happen and you're always welcome to come to the show and
we would love to have you, you know, and we'll talk a little bit more after this. Hopefully
we create a good relationship and maybe there's some cool shit that comes out of
Awesome buddy. I'm very interested. Um, Thank you for coming

(01:57:43):
out. Super rad doing this with you. Thank you guys for listening.
Thank you for the likes. Thank you for the DMs. Thank you for all the love that's coming
my way. I don't know if I'd still be doing this if you guys weren't chiming in and letting me know
I'm doing something right over here. Please keep it coming. If you got guests
you think would be good for the show, hit me up. Thank you, Solon Clothing
for leaning in with me when this thing got going. I mean, that

(01:58:04):
was huge. That's the reason I'm still here today. Thank you, Solon. Thank
you, Ryan and Jeremy. And thank you for the message you just put out for
the tattoo industry today. So, with all that being said, namaste.