Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Hi, I'm Parag Amin.
Welcome to my podcast, From Crisis to Justice.
As a lawyer and entrepreneur, I'm passionate about
helping small business owners successfully navigate situations that
can kill a business.
As a kid, I watched my dad's dreams
of being an entrepreneur destroyed by an unethical
businessman.
And I don't want that to happen to
(00:20):
you or your family.
That's why I started my law firm.
I want to protect and defend business owners
and their legacies from crisis.
Welcome to From Crisis to Justice.
Welcome back everyone to the From Crisis to
Justice podcast.
I'm your host, Parag Amin.
Today I'm joined by a very special guest,
(00:42):
Josh Cadillac.
He is a real estate coach, national speaker,
and author who trains real estate professionals how
to close for life by building lasting success
through extensive knowledge.
His extensive method combines the education real estate
professionals need to survive in this industry with
the tools to convert that knowledge into rapport,
(01:03):
credibility, and trust.
Josh, thank you so much for being on
today.
Hi Parag, it's totally my pleasure, but thanks
for having me on.
Yeah, so listen, tell us how you got
into what you do and why you got
into what you do, into the real estate
space.
Let's call it pain, suffering, and desperation.
I was a real estate investor, had restaurants,
(01:26):
and actually had opened a couple of restaurants
going into 2008, and the whole world came
to an end basically as far as in
Southeast Florida, the market that we were in.
We had a massive downturn.
It was basically the epicenter of this real
estate crisis.
And in the process of that happening, not
only was the commercial real estate that I
held no longer able to support its own
(01:50):
debt service, also the restaurants that we were
in people stopped going out to eat.
And so despite the fact that we had
a good product, we had a good system
and everything was set up well, we weren't
over leveraged or anything like that.
I mean, not technically over leveraged.
I mean, I suppose you're technically over leveraged
if things turn south and you can't pay
(02:10):
your debt service.
But I mean, based upon any technical method
of real estate analysis, we were not over
leveraged.
We were in a good position.
We wound up losing everything.
And so I had to start all over
from scratch and started in real estate and
took a ton of real estate classes and
got to be really good at the real
estate business, got to be very successful and
realized all the things that I was learning
in the real estate classes was not the
(02:31):
reason why I was being successful in real
estate.
It was stuff that I learned outside of
that, stuff I learned through pain and suffering,
stuff I learned from other businesses, stuff I
learned from my father that prepared me to
actually be successful in business.
And so I realized that agents were being
given, I don't wanna say bad information, but
it was like being taught by somebody who
(02:52):
read a book about how to do something
as opposed to being taught by somebody who
actually knows how to do it.
And so as a practitioner, as somebody that
had to actually take and make this work
and I didn't have a choice, I started
writing things to take and help agents solve
that problem, how to do sales the right
(03:13):
way, how to stop chasing paychecks and start
closing customers for life.
And so that's what the genesis was, I
suppose.
Wow, wow.
So the restaurants you had in No8, was
that your first set of businesses?
No, I grew up working in one of
(03:34):
my father's businesses, which was a cafeteria operation.
So food service is something.
We had a catering business as well.
We had industrial real estate.
We had businesses.
I always grew up around business.
I was always gonna work in the family
business.
There was never a question about that.
It was just that after my father passed,
(03:55):
which was 2002, the helm was passed to
me, if you will.
And we started expanding beyond kind of the...
My father was sick toward the end of
his life.
So we really kind of stayed in our
own shell and we sort of pushed out
of that.
And then the years following that, started the
restaurants, got into some more, bought some more
(04:16):
real estate and did a little bit more
aggressive investing.
Like younger people tend to do.
Young people are the ones that take and
grow economies because they're the ones willing to
take the risks.
And yeah, we got caught.
Wow, so in terms of moving from food
service where your father was, where you were,
(04:37):
and then pivoting into real estate, you know,
the 08, 09 time, some would argue it's
a really good opportune time.
Others might argue, listen, it's one of the
toughest times to get into real estate.
So what made you pivot into real estate?
And can you talk a little bit about
the art of the pivot, pivoting from one
venture into another?
How did you choose it?
Why did you choose it?
(04:58):
And why do you think that pivoting is
so important to success?
Well, I mean, it's very easy to get
trapped in your own gravity, if you will.
It's very easy to get trapped into what
you know of yourself doing.
When the shit hits the proverbial fan, you
(05:19):
can no longer stay in that comfort shell.
So I was forced out of that.
The reason why I pivoted to real estate
was it was something that I knew from
investing for years with my father.
We were in real estate when we got
hurt.
So I knew how it worked.
I mean, when I assessed the things that
I had, that the path to entering would
(05:41):
be easiest, it was the one that showed
itself as I had the most foundation here.
So it would take less remedial work for
me to become successful in this thing.
And so I thought that that would be
the closest thing that I created a path
to get back to where we were, what
we were losing in the process of losing
(06:03):
everything.
So that's the reason why it was basically
a self-assessment.
And the results of that being, hey, this
is where your skills and what you know
best lines up.
This is probably the place where it's gonna
be the best path forward with the available
resources that you bring to the table.
I see, okay.
And so the other piece of that, obviously,
Parag, is what you mentioned, which is the
(06:24):
power of the pivot.
I think for myself, I didn't really give
myself an option not to pivot.
I was raised that if there's a problem,
it's gotta get solved.
And so not solving it is not a
viable answer, right?
And the problem was, we were losing everything,
(06:47):
money had to come in, somebody had to
go out and produce.
And so the pivot was, if you take
off the table, quitting, if that's not a
viable option, if maintaining the status quo ceases
to be viable, and quitting isn't allowed, well,
now there's only one choice left, which is
to pivot.
And you have to pivot and force.
(07:09):
You have to pivot with everything you have.
You can't take and have one foot in
and one foot out because the ship is
sinking, there's no helicopter coming to rescue you.
So guess what?
You better start swimming, right?
And so the pivot was kind of forced
on me.
And the reason why it worked, I think,
is because I didn't give myself any other
(07:29):
options.
Wow, okay.
And so then why real estate compared to
any other venture you could have gone into?
It's the thing I knew best.
It's the thing I knew best.
I mean, I had already done real estate.
My father had, we finished liquidating a large
portfolio of his in New York of real
estate to come down and move fully to
Florida, which is where we were living.
We had bought some commercial real estate, bought
(07:49):
an office building, bought a large industrial warehouse
facility, and ran those for years.
So I mean, I knew leasing, I knew
how all this stuff worked.
And so once again, I thought it would
be the lowest hanging fruit, if you will,
of the skillset that I had and where
I could make the kind of money that
I needed to take and build back what
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was lost in the housing crisis.
Yeah, and did you have mentors or guides
along the way?
And if you did, how did you find
them?
You know, that has always been one of
the great, the great tough pieces for me
is finding folks that could be mentors.
I mean, I could tell you that in
(08:30):
my life, learning to be an electrician, yeah,
I had a guy that was a great
electrician, took me under his wing, showed me
the ropes.
In the trades, I had a lot of
mentors.
My father was a tremendous mentor when he
was alive.
I mean, his foot had a permanent resting
place on my backside.
I would say that his boot was applied
to my butt many, many times throughout the
(08:51):
course of my life, but always because he
didn't want me to make dumb mistakes that
could be avoided.
He wanted to avoid pain and suffering.
He would rather cause me some intermittent pain
and suffering to help me to avoid the
big pain and suffering that came later.
And I always look back and I'm tremendously
grateful for that.
The tough part for me, Parag, has honestly
been finding people whose motor I respect enough
(09:14):
to listen to, because typically we start talking
and they're coming to me for advice by
the time the thing's done, because we're pushing
so hard and we're getting so much done
on this side.
So it's been hard to find people that
I trust and respect enough when it comes
to the business side.
There's a few that I've had, but it's
been a lesson I actually learned on my
(09:37):
own podcast from one of my guests.
I interviewed a gentleman and he told me
that he, if he could give one piece
of advice, it was to take and try
to find ways to say yes to things.
And I often find myself looking for reasons
to disqualify something, because if I can disqualify
it means they're not gonna give it any
more.
Of the limited bandwidth that's left, that we're
(09:58):
not pulling in 5 million different directions to
try to get done all the things that
we're getting, you know, podcasts and speaking 200
plus days a year and the real estate
business and the investment fund and the construction
company, all the stuff that we have going
on.
But finding ways to say yes to things,
I think is just a really, really powerful
tool because it makes you take and really
(10:19):
consider, hey, if this isn't viable, why isn't
it viable?
Could we make it viable?
What could we do to make it work?
And so recently I've been able to find
a couple of people who have come in
and been able to take it and help
some and, you know, offer advice.
It's not that I think that I'm anything
all that special.
(10:40):
It's just that finding people that I can
actually bring value to what we're doing already,
they don't come with a lot of ideas,
unfortunately, a lot of times.
And that makes it tough to justify allocating
time and resources to what they have to
say if they can't bring value.
You know, I wanna find those people, but
(11:01):
I wanna make sure that they actually bring
the goods.
Yeah, absolutely.
And I love that.
And you and I have talked before about
this and you and I share that along
with a few other things in common in
terms of wanting to not only bring value
yourself, deeply committed to bringing value to your
clients, but also wanting to surround yourself with
(11:22):
people who are like-minded like that.
So let me ask you with your businesses,
with the restaurants, now with the real estate
business, you know, sometimes inevitably lawsuits or legal
issues become a problem.
And so have you or your businesses faced
any kind of legal issues?
(11:42):
And if you did, how did you handle
that?
The one that comes to mind, what was
actually an ethics issue that we had.
It was an ethical complaint that was brought
against me.
And it was for something that I flat
out, I knew I did the wrong thing
for the right reasons.
(12:03):
It was during the, I mean, thank God,
this thing has already been fully litigated and
I'm on the other side of it to
talk about it because I'm not particularly proud
of what I did, but I'm at the
same time, I'm proud of what I did.
Cause I mean, like it's a rookie move
and I know I shouldn't have done it
when I did it.
I knew I was opening myself up to
liability, but what happened was a gentleman came
(12:26):
into my office.
This is during the housing crisis, maybe circa
2011, 2012.
And at that point I had gone from,
you know, didn't know my ass from a
hole in the ground when I started to
now I am the short sale expert.
I am the guy that everybody is bringing
the short sale.
If you don't want to handle it, you
take it to Josh, he gets it done,
right?
So I knew the entire process.
I was very good at getting them.
I was carrying 70, 80 active listings at
(12:47):
a time, doing a lot of business.
This guy comes into me and he's a
grown man and he's in tears telling me,
you know, I gave my listing to this
other agent and it's been six months.
They took the listing for a year, six
months.
They haven't shown the property once.
They don't return my phone calls.
I can't get in contact with them no
matter what I, there's no way to reach
them.
(13:08):
I said, well, look, you know, I can't,
I can't, I can't sell it for you.
I can't list it for you if it's
with somebody else.
You know, you have to find some way
to get in touch with them to cancel
them.
So he tried, I tried, everybody tries, nothing.
He's like, the bank is going to take
it from me.
I don't want this foreclosure to happen.
So I said, all right, you know, I'll
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do it.
I'll find a way to take it out.
I'll deal with the other agent.
When they come back screaming later on, I'll
take it and I'll deal with it.
And so it's the wrong, it's the wrong
thing.
I mean, I know I'm doing what the
rules say not to do.
I'm breaking the rules, but I also know
that the rules are first and foremost written
to protect the consumer.
(13:51):
And so I know I'm on the right
side of the rules, but I'm doing the
wrong thing.
I'm on the wrong side of the rules,
but I'm doing the right thing.
I'm obeying the intent of the law, but
not the letter.
And so sure enough, I, within, you know,
a few weeks I had an offer on
the property, we had it under contract within,
I think, three, four months we got the
(14:11):
short sale.
It was actually, we got it done very,
very quickly.
It was one of the faster ones we
ever got done.
And the day that the commission checks came
in, so did a letter from the other
brokerage who we had never heard from at
this point.
Never, no contact whatsoever.
The day it closed, we got a letter
from them demanding the commission.
(14:32):
So they couldn't be bothered to take and
communicate at all, but they were tracking the
closing on it to make sure that they
got paid because they had conned somebody into
giving them a listing that they didn't service.
Now, you know, and I often wondered, it's
a question I'm gonna ask you, Parag, because
I know how I felt when I got
(14:54):
that.
I know the anxiety that I got, found
myself in knowing that I was gonna have
to go and defend myself.
And you know what, that process, does time
and representing people, does it, does it, I
mean, do you feel that?
Like, is there a sense of that for
you on your side of, you know, like,
(15:15):
oh man, this is gonna be, you know,
I don't know who's gonna win this thing
or does it get easier with time?
Yeah, it's a great question, Josh.
I think it does get easier with time,
but it doesn't go away.
Meaning I think any great lawyer or any
great professional never gets so comfortable that it's
(15:36):
completely comfortable, meaning that it's completely stress-free.
Because I think a certain level of stress
is required if you really care about what
you're doing with anything.
There's an aspect of dealing with stress effectively
though, such that you're still in control of
the situation and moving things forward effectively, because
(15:58):
I think there's also different levels of stress,
meaning somebody can be so stressed out that
they're ineffective.
They don't know what to do.
They don't know where to move or what
kind of move to make.
And my clients come to me with an
expectation that I know what to do and
I can handle it.
And so in terms of handling cases over
(16:19):
and over and over, thousands of cases now
successfully for clients, it does become easier in
the sense of, I know what to do
and when to do it.
But the sense of the justice system there,
it's an adversarial system.
So there's an aspect to anything that's adversarial
where things can change unexpectedly.
(16:41):
There are variables outside of your control that
add uncertainty to the whole equation.
So there is that aspect.
I've always wanted to do the best for
my clients and being stressed about making sure
that some of those uncontrollable variables are still
controlled to the maximum extent possible and that
there's a contingency plan to the extent that
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there is an unforeseen variable that pops up.
Mitigated and planned around.
Yeah, yeah, I hear that.
That's the thing.
I've often wondered, I mean, obviously it's different
because in a situation like this, it's me
that's on the line.
But that adversarial nature, that the fact that
it's gonna be a fight and it's gonna
(17:23):
be nasty and they're gonna say nasty things
and they're gonna play dirty pool is, and
you know you're walking into it and it's
just the beginning.
But I will never forget going into that
arbitration, that meeting that I had to go
into it, mediation, I guess it was, because
as an agent, we submit to mediation before
we mediate.
And I had to go before the real
(17:44):
estate board and I'm sitting here thinking like,
I really genuinely, like, I know I did
the wrong thing.
So I'm coming in guilty.
And like, I just don't know how bad,
am I gonna lose my license and my
ability that they can protect myself or to
provide for myself, like what's gonna happen?
(18:05):
And I was really fortunate.
The meeting went, I had a letter from
the previous, the seller that I helped, because
he couldn't physically come, he had moved away.
But you know, I had as much as
I could.
And they totally found for me, like 100
% found for me, there was nothing for
(18:26):
the other side.
But I mean, I'm telling you that the
weeks between that letter coming in and getting
it done, man, was some of the most
tense, difficult, like, you know, wake up in
the middle of the night kind of thing.
100%, 100% agree with you.
And you know, it's interesting because with lawyers
and the client, for example, when I go
(18:46):
through a trial or an arbitration, waiting on
the decision is agonizing.
You know, the client and us are going
through essentially the same thing because we put
it all on the line too for our
clients and wanting to make sure that we
get a great result for the client.
Now, of course, it's ultimately the client's outcome
that occurs.
But you know, I mean, I think that
(19:07):
the best professionals are invested with their clients.
I think it's the right way to do
it.
I think that you, ethically, that's really the
only way to take and do this thing.
Because this is something that I learned when
I was writing my ethics course with my
brother.
My brother's a philosophy professor.
And when I wrote my ethics course with
him, he was explaining what ethics are.
(19:29):
And I was like, because I've taken a
bunch of ethics renewals now.
I mean, you're in the law.
So ethics is a big one for you
guys, right?
And he said, I said, whereas we're writing
the class.
I said, look, I'm gonna write an ethics
class.
I just don't want it to suck.
Because I mean, they do.
I mean, like we need three hours of
ethics every two years.
If you can't score ambient and you need
(19:49):
to take a nap, that's three hours of
nap time right there.
Because it's the same class every stinking time.
They pull up the rules and they read
the rules to you.
I said to him, that's what they do.
He said, you're kidding.
That's not what ethics is at all.
I said, you're kidding.
I've taken nine ethics renewals now.
And that's what I thought it was.
Because that's all they do.
He's like, no, ethics has never been the
(20:11):
study of the rules.
Ethics has been the study of how, as
a human being, you should behave to live
a life that you can be proud of.
Ethics is actually a selfish study.
How should I be to be able to
live the kind of life that I want
to live, to be able to look back
on it and be proud of what I've
done?
And as it turns out, treating people the
right way and doing things the right way
(20:31):
is the only route to that.
That's how human beings, based upon our extensive
study since the Greeks of human beings, how
human beings actually live a life that's the
most fulfilling.
And so getting my head around that is
a big part of even why I've made
the choices that I have in business that
I do and why I prioritize the customer
(20:52):
first because I know by prioritizing them, it
allows me to run the kind of business
that I can look back on and be
proud of.
And that I know my forebearers, I know
my father, the things that matter to him,
he could look down on the business that
I run and say, that's my boy.
That's the kind of business I'm proud of
you running.
It's part of what this whole thing is,
(21:15):
right?
Not just us, but those that came before
us.
Yeah, 100% agree with that.
I love that.
I mean, so let me ask you, from
that experience that you went through, the ethical
crisis that you went through, would you do
it again if you were put in that
position or do you think you'd do things
differently?
And if so, how and why?
(21:37):
I think maybe I would do things a
little bit differently in the sense that I
would reach out maybe to the board and
try to get a finding of abandonment from
the other.
I didn't know there was the mechanical process
to maybe try to get the other agent
out beforehand.
I didn't know it.
The agent didn't know it.
It's not a well-known thing.
(21:59):
So I mean, they didn't hold it against
me that I didn't know.
But yeah, would I take and help the
customer first?
Absolutely.
I actually, I got a chance later on
to meet the mediator outside of that and
he remembered me.
And I said to him, you know, look,
just between you, me, and the lamppost, and
I'm not supposed to talk about after the
fact or whatever, but like, was I righteous
(22:21):
in what I did?
He said, look, the code of ethics was
written first to protect the customer, the customer
that was being harmed by the action.
And so that made me feel better.
Would I be worried about getting in front
of a letter of the law mediator?
Absolutely.
My testes have been in a little bag
being carted off away from me.
(22:42):
Yes, I could have gotten clipped pretty hard,
but that wasn't the outcome.
And so I'm grateful for it.
I'd be nervous doing it again.
I try to look for maybe a better
way, but yeah, if it was, my back
was against the wall, you take care of
people first.
Yeah, a hundred percent.
You know, part of that is the lack
(23:02):
of knowledge, the lack of professional guidance, right?
And so unfortunately, a lot of people, a
lot of business owners will get into these
issues where they just don't know, they don't
know who to turn to, they don't know
what the right move is, and then they
have to make a decision.
So they just make a decision in a
way blindly, just hoping it's the right decision.
So can you talk a little bit about
the importance of having the right professional guidance
(23:24):
to make you or help you make the
right moves?
You know, that's kind of the big piece,
right?
My job is to be good at the
thing that I do.
And we get into trouble when we go
outside the scope of the thing that we
know and do well.
And that's why we have professions.
(23:46):
These folks train themselves in these other areas
that touch what we do, but are outside
the scope of what we do.
And so it's kind of like when people
come to me and are gonna tell me
how to take and do real estate who
are just consumers.
And I'm like, I know you watch JGTV.
I mean, I know you've watched four episodes
(24:07):
of Perry Mason, and you know, like, but
you have no idea what actually goes in
to making this cake.
You know, just because you watch Julia Child's
Bake doesn't mean you know how to be
a chef at a five-star restaurant.
You know, like they're just, they're different things.
And so if you're the kind of person
(24:31):
that needs open heart surgery and is telling
the surgeon how you wanna be kept awake
so you can make the incision, I think
you need to have your head examined, right?
You need to take and recognize and step
back and say, bring the professionals in and
say, hey, look guys, this is the situation.
What's the best course of action?
They'll say, oh, you didn't know about the
PTS-16B form?
(24:51):
If you just fill out the PTS-16B
form, the problem goes away.
What's been keeping you up at night for
weeks, losing sleep and getting your hair going,
and there's the form to fix it, right?
And so, yeah, I mean, the self-help
thing, stow that garbage, life's too short.
Take and pay somebody who spent their life
(25:13):
figuring out how to fix the problem that
you just ran into that's out of the
scope of what you do.
Totally agree, Parag.
You gotta bring the pros in.
Yeah, and do you think it's more expensive
to bring in a pro early, or do
you think it's more expensive or less expensive
to have a pro come in early to
help guide?
It usually is gonna cost less to bring
(25:35):
them in early so you avoid the stupid
mistakes.
I mean, the problem really is, I mean,
there's a case, I don't wanna talk about
it just because it's a friend of mine,
but he was dealing with his ex-wife,
or soon to be ex-wife.
His wife had left him, taken his kid,
and so he sent a letter to his
(25:57):
wife.
And in the letter, he absolutely just torpedoed
his ability to be on equal footing with
his wife when it came to divorce because
of just trying to take and admit and
just trying to come clean and begging and
pleading and all this kind of stuff.
If he would have just, and I was
(26:18):
the whole time, like, don't you wanna wait
for your attorney to come back from vacation
before you send, don't send the, please don't
send the letter.
He sends the letter and now it's months
and months of dealing with consequences from something
that was, he thought, how could there be
a problem with any of this?
I'm like, I don't know, because this is
(26:40):
not what I do for a living.
You have somebody that does this for a
living, ask them that question.
And so, yeah, I mean, real world consequences.
Guys, it's not time for amateur hour.
You can make mistakes that you can't unmake.
You can ring a bell that can't be
unrung and then you jeopardize your position, going
(27:01):
for your negotiating position is compromised and you're
gonna get a worse result because of it.
Yeah, absolutely.
And that's so much of business is just
having that right guidance and having the foresight
to be able to make the right moves
at the right time.
Let me ask you this for, what is
the best piece of advice you've gotten and
(27:22):
who gave it to you?
The, oh man, I'll give you two.
One I already gave you earlier on.
I'll say it again.
That's why I wanna give you the second
one so I can give you at least
a little biodiversity because the other one was
fresh in my mind.
But my father used to tell me all
the time, by the inch, it's a cinch,
by the yard, it's hard.
All right, and so I don't care how
(27:42):
big the problem is.
I don't care how big the thing is.
Break it down into constituent components, take and
figure out what the smallest piece of it
needs to be and do the hell out
of every little piece of it every step
of the way.
And next thing you know, you got the
bones of an elephant laying there.
You ate the elephant, right?
And so that's one.
And then the other one that we talked
(28:02):
about earlier is find ways to say yes
to things.
That's been such a game changer for me
in the last few years.
It was actually my uncle.
I had him on, a successful pharmacist, a
guy I respect.
Actually, I'm in his house right now in
Wichita, Kansas attending a conference that I'm speaking
at.
And finding ways to say yes to things
(28:24):
is such, such a powerful tool.
Yeah, there's a million reasons we can't do
it.
But what if we could?
In what world could we do that thing?
How could we?
This is where innovation comes from.
This is where ideas, new ideas and new
ways, better ways of doing things.
And this, what I love about a Parag
really is because it's a piece of advice
(28:45):
that my father and many other entrepreneurs have
given me in different ways.
My father used to say, you know, you
come in, you look at everything and could
we do it differently?
Could we turn the trays on their side?
How could we do it better?
He says, you know, always come in looking
at your business for a better way.
But this idea of how can we say
yes to things, same thing, like, is there
(29:07):
a way we can innovate to make what
can't be done into something that can be
done?
So those are the things that, front of
mind for me, those are the pieces of
advice that if I could give listeners, I
would say these are the ones that really
move the needle in my life.
Yeah, let me ask you for some clarification
on the find a way to say yes,
because I've heard the opposite of that.
Find a way to say no, unless it's
(29:27):
something you love.
So can you clarify a little bit more
about find a way to say yes means
and in what context somebody should be saying
yes?
So I recently got requested to come to
a speaking engagement and it was overlapping with
something else that I needed to do.
So I went in and I looked at
(29:48):
the flight schedules, I looked at the speaking
schedule, whatever.
I figured out a way to get myself
on a flight that's gonna get me there.
I'm gonna get there at one o'clock
in the morning, gonna hit the hotel, be
there by about two.