October 30, 2025 • 66 mins
In this moving episode of For Mannerless Women, Adelle Onyango sits down with Apondi a life coach and relationship minister for a raw, intergenerational conversation on womanhood, freedom, and authenticity.Apondi opens up about the importance of financial independence as a form of agency, the never-ending work of setting and protecting boundaries, and how authenticity can irritate toxic people who prefer conformity.
She also challenges how we socialize both girls and boys unpacking how neglecting the boy child harms everyone and reminds us that growth never ends.
This is an episode about reclaiming power, choosing dignity, and living unashamedly as your fullest self.Listen, reflect, and share with every woman learning to live on her own terms.
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She also challenges how we socialize both girls and boys unpacking how neglecting the boy child harms everyone and reminds us that growth never ends.
This is an episode about reclaiming power, choosing dignity, and living unashamedly as your fullest self.Listen, reflect, and share with every woman learning to live on her own terms.
🔗 Join our community:
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to for Mannerist Women.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I am Adela and YOUNGO your host, and this is
a space that is committed to naturing a new generation
of shame free women who are ready to meet their
best self. And in this episode, we dive into something
that we love here, which is intergenerational friendships.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
My friend of Pondee, who.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Is a life coach and a relationship minister, is coming
to share five passion points with you. I am so
excited that you're here because I wanted you to come
on season one.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
We didn't manage to make it.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Work then, but like you're here now, and I think
you are an example of how people can center their
identity and their agency and their power as women and
still do the things that bring them joy.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
We'd like you to run my CV center.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yes, I really think so.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Whenever I talk to kids, your your daughter we went
to school together, and Tawi and I went to school together.
Whenever she's we had a conversation about identity and I
kept saying, we have to also talk about a Pondie
and how seeing her remain true to herself modeled that
(01:25):
to you as well.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
So I'm starting off by giving you your flowers.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
I shouldn't touch this, no, it's my chest.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
The the reason I think it's so important to have
you on the show is as found it important for
women to seek and to have intergenerational friendships. Yes, I've
seen how powerful that is for me, and I wonder
if that's something that's the same on your end.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yeah, yeah, but never tell me what you're saying. Earlier
before we went, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
So when I moved out of Nairobi, the first friend
I made who was on season one of this show.
Actually her name is Mary, and the first time we met,
we spoke for hours. First time, like we sat and
we spoke for like two hours, this stranger who were
like I've just bumped it, and we would talk about
(02:23):
deep things like grief and with a complete stranger, and
it just kicked off our friendship. And with time I
started to understand like how we're socialized to think about friendships,
even female friendships. First they're discouraged because you're told women
you're your own worst enemies. Secondly, they have to look
like you and be the same age as you. Yes,
(02:45):
but I find that that's what's important, is having that
intergenerational friend amongst women.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Is that the same for you?
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Well, you said earlier on that your friend Mary, she's
a particular age. Yeah, she's a she's sixty eight, yeah,
and I'm sixty four. Yeah. And so what happened for
me is that only recently did it suddenly occur to
me that my friends are so many different ages. But
(03:18):
it came from a place of having to have given
myself permission to have these friends. So, like you say,
I too was boxed in. Yeah, as boxed in by religion. Yeah,
so your friends need to be a particular religion. Yeah,
none of that. Do like Jesus did when you are
(03:38):
with the Samaritans.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah no, no, no, no, no, no, no no, you just.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Say with the Jews. Yeah, that kind of thing. So,
for the longest time, my friends were of a particular religion,
particular faith, and my closest friends were also people the
same age as me, because we are being channed out
by a colonial systems of education which blocks us into
(04:06):
age groups.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
There, yes, yes, and that you can only learn and
hang out with these ones your age.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Now it's just calling an aerobi and everybody is six
years old in Standard one or the whole lot of you.
Otherwise you don't get admission. Yes, because schools are full,
you have to stay back. Yeah. So my friends were
my age but recently I realized that my youngest friends
are twenty two.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Yeah, my oldest friends are in their seventies. Yeah, and
every age group is just fine. Yeah. Like somebody I
would call my friend now is kid's friend Steph, who
is my fitness coach, and I see her at least
twice a week and she's helping me through my strength
(04:54):
training and just speaking with her, hanging out with her online. Yeah,
she's coaching me. It's marvelous. So, yes, friendship across the board,
and they don't need to be people of certain color yeah,
certain languages, certain hair slice. It's okay my hair is
locked and your hair is none none, and somebody else's
(05:18):
hair is a week. Yeah, it doesn't matter. Yeah, yes, yes,
And you.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Know what before we get into what we you know
the key points you want to share with our community,
because that's another thing I love is that there's so
much to learn from you. I want us to go
back to the last time I saw you, and you
don't even remember this. It was years ago. I was
(05:43):
probably like a teenager and I had I was going
through a turburn phase, like I've always been very expressive
what I do with my look. And we definitely were
in a breast cancer awareness girl dinner or something. My
mom was there, and my turban kept falling off. Of
(06:06):
course I wasn't tying it right right, so like I'd
be sitting down and it's like, oh, no, rush in
the bathroom. And I was in the bathroom the same
time with you, and you say, let me help you.
And literally in this bathroom, I'm like crouching down and
you're like, yeah, so when you tie it, make sure
you do it.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
That you were teaching.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Me, I was, yes, and I just it was probably
such a fleeting moment for you, but for me, I
was just like this is so kind, like thank you
so much, and and it's a properly, it's not properly,
but I think that just speaks to like the energy
that you have. And when you were coming to the show,
I was trying to remember when it was the last
(06:43):
time we saw each other, and it was that yeah, yeah,
I love yes that I.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Love that you held that memory.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yes, yes, I remember it so clearly. But the key
passion points that you want to share with women. So
the first one has everything to do with money and
a financial independence.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Why do you think this is so important?
Speaker 3 (07:06):
You know, I did not realize the importance of financial
independence in the context of shared domestic economy and just
(07:30):
traveling through life with a life partner who I fully trust,
my husband, kid's father, and who with who we evolved
a process of having a shared part, and from that
(07:53):
shared part, anyone of us being able to take out
what they need and.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Use it.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Seemed fantastic. But as I got older, I was arriving
without realizing it to a place where I'm like, no,
but I don't have an investment that I can draw
(08:26):
from and choose to do something totally random and uncharacteristic
for which I do not seek to need to seek
agreement or understanding. And sometimes these are important things, like,
(08:49):
for instance, I'm sixty four years old right now, Yeah,
and I could be waiting to go and visit the
hells of the land of music a sound of music, yeah,
and just be there in Austria or so some random
(09:11):
place like that. Oh, family finances, Who do you ask permission?
You can't even ask yourself permission to use money randomly,
you just go to some hills. Who do you ask
for me?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yeah? And then you're like, so should this come out
of the shared pot or like where does it come out?
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Come out? Yeah, because you're thinking this is obnoxious. How
do I get into this money and take out this
money and just make choices that they're okay choices. It's
not a bad choice. But this is shared port and
the values around that shared pot of money was already stu. Yes,
(10:01):
there's very strong values that's taking care of that, so
none of us. I mean, I would be horrified if
he's taking out that money and he's just on some
random with girlfriends. Yeah, like I take off with some
young girl and he takes off with some young men,
and really it's not going that way. So just a
(10:24):
place where you and I can decide Adele, you could say,
you know what, can we go hang out in Dubai? Yeah,
And I'm able to reach into that part and take
it without consulting, but also to just decide that because
he's such a good man. I love him so much.
(10:46):
He's always wanted to have a ranch. Yeah, I've got
the money. I'm going to absolutely buy that ranch for
him and present it to him for Christmas. Agency agen c. Yes.
So it turned out that I needed to have had
(11:10):
a pot of money that I invested earlier than I started.
So I started late, but thank goodness, I had the
resources to start late with. I had already invested a
few things here I and a few things there, so
I was able to take that and now invest and
(11:30):
be able to come out and have my own resources
at the level at which I would like to have resources,
And it gives me power. At another level, that shared
pot gave me so much power, but now this one
of being able to take off and do as I
want without feeling the guilt of taking from the family pot.
(11:57):
That was a very important thing. And every woman needs that,
actually every man needs it. Everybody needs to have that
resource that they can reach and be able to do
whatever it is that they want to do.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
And in fact, I always feel like when women are
being socialized in terms of finances or like oh, you know,
you'll get married, et cetera, I wish it wasn't presented
as have a hidden account.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
I hear that because because then.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
It's like it's, uh, we're waiting for something to go wrong.
I feel like having that it's the agency to decide,
which is wonderful and makes you an even more attractive partner,
more attractive friend, because you're like free right. Yes, when
(12:50):
when you were younger with the conversation on finances, what
were they telling women in terms of money visa v
Getting married or into relationship.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
I don't come from a community that says hide some money.
And because I do a lot of bridle shower work
in Kenya, we have communities that actually say hide money,
hide some money, right, So but my community says, give
all the money. So you see that that's a story. Yeah, yeah,
(13:27):
give all the money, put all the money on the table.
So that's the that's the narrative.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
But somewhere along the way I learned on my own
to hide money. Yeah and yes, And I told my husband,
because you're my friend, I need to let you know
I hide money from you. And when you ask me
(13:58):
if I have money, I like, yeah, I just want
to put it on the table that I like you secret,
I like to you yeah, yes yeah, And he's like,
but why do you lie to me? I said, because
every once in a while, you are in such a
tight place I hate looking at you when you're in
that tight place. You don't You're not in a good place,
(14:19):
And I want to be able to find it and
give it to you, because that tight place is not
a place that lives you empowered when you're a young man.
He's a very young person. Yeah, and I was a
very young girl. You got married when I was twenty five.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Yes, so he does know. He did know that I
would have hide of the money for me, And I
said it, I said, I am just putting this on
the table looking you are that money is hidden from you. Yeah,
So I bring it out and then be able to
help you. But then I also discovered that in the
(14:55):
context of that common pot and the harassment of the
role provider that he has been given by society, which
is not Biblical, which is just social. Yeah, nobody has
a Bible verse for you, pastors. Pastors don't have a
Bible verse that calls this person provider because he is
(15:19):
the profession thank you yahwe. But because of that, he
gets harassed by society because it's not only provision at
the family nucleus level, but it expands in society. So
this person is harassed and this person needs to be
covered beyond what he himself has, So then he wouldn't
(15:44):
give it back because he can't. Well, he find it.
He's a teacher, he is a high school teacher, is
only just starting. Well, he find it, so by why
do I find it? And he's correct, And so I
realized it's not coming back.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
I'm hide.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
So now I'd find other ways of it getting to him.
But never threw my name.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Oh wow, what tricks and he's.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Kills because I said, I'll be lying, you die, so
you'd be lying to you. So I'd find another person
who he like, his own family member, say you know
this guy is like this, like that, he needs some
money and I can send it to you. You give
it to him, and then when it needs to get back,
(16:38):
it gets back through you and me and hidden work
into that hidden I love that.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
It's so interesting.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Yes, yeah, because at that time I had no capacity
to invest. I only had the capacity to hide. Yes,
so that hidden part, we don't need it, but we
do need to invest, and we don't need to ask
permission to invest. We do have the authority given to
(17:09):
us by the Almighty to invest. So rise up, invest
and keep it moving.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
And it does something I can't explain it.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
I know we look at like financial independence for women
as survival, but I look at it there's a freedom
and a clarity and even like a muscle of courage that.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
It gives you.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
You know that you were able to do this thing
and then you invested it and it's like, wow, I
can do that?
Speaker 1 (17:38):
What more can I do? You know what?
Speaker 3 (17:41):
I think that and women just keep giving back into
it goes.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
It's not Reds father than just ask Fred's father.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
And whatever I use on me, whatever I use on
me to glow, to live and to be empowered and
to grow its impact. Everybody is a beneficiar, even if
I just went to do buy for two weeks and
could you be in Jermy for that for a couple
of weeks?
Speaker 1 (18:09):
But belitician read exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
There's something else you talk about that I struggled with
for so long, and I didn't even know I was
struggling with it at the time. Boundaries.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
When I look back at that girl, I'm just like,
what what was happening?
Speaker 1 (18:32):
I did not have.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Any boundaries in my personal life, and I think it's
because not. I think therapy has helped me understand. It's
because I didn't see myself as worthy. So in friendships
or in relationships, I would arrive with no boundaries because
I feel like you're doing me a favor by being
(18:57):
my friend, a favor by being partner. So it's a
free for all. I'm not going to say no, because
when you go, then you're farming. I'm not worthy, so
I want you to stay right. But thank god that
phase ended because then you run out of fuel first
and foremost, Yes, you run out of fuel with no boundaries.
(19:19):
And some of the most transformative work I've done in
terms of self work has been building healthy boundaries. Yes,
what was your relationship with boundaries?
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Like, you know, I'm building this ship as I say it. Yes,
so I haven't finished building it yet.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Yeah. And so that whole thing that you went through,
I believe it's everybody's experience, Adele, only that you interrupted
the trajectory of it. You did that, and you're able
to recognize it and able to do something about it.
(20:09):
I'd like to put it to you that the work
isn't over.
Speaker 5 (20:11):
Oh yeah, that is a hectic Every boundary comes a
new horizon of boundaries needed to be needing.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
To be built. Yes, so, and I didn't know that,
but these horizons keep coming to me. And what's going
on here?
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (20:32):
So hm, let's look at patriarchy and the way that
society has designed for you and I.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
To be give us, yes, and it's celebrated. The more
you give, it's celebrated. And then the takers.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Yeah. Somebody once said that, you know, in this world
they give us and take us. Then they are giver
us who are takers, and then they are takers who
are takers. Okay, then there's give us who are give us, yeah,
but never take back in exactly right. So what happens
with somebody who finds out that actually they didn't have
(21:16):
many boundaries is most likely how you've been designed by
society to be a giving So you keep giving, and
you keep giving and then and I say sorry on
behalf of society, because I'm your mother.
Speaker 6 (21:31):
Yeah, so on behalf of society, I say sorry, yeah,
because I didn't teach you when you are very young
to create boundaries.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
I taught you to be kind. I taught you to
have a big white smile.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
I taught you to suck it in and when your
heart and to sit in that corner, suck your thumb
and come out with a smile, and continue giving until
you gave from empty. Yes, yeah, yeah, and when you
gave from empty, you went to a therapist. Yeah yeah,
(22:10):
because you're like, now there's nothing even for me. I
can't even give myself. Yeah, because I have given it
all away until I come back empty. And so that's
good and it's not like it's going away, this this
thing of being people recognizing Adell is a giver, and
(22:31):
so a lot of the friends then that you are
trapped at takers and relatives who are takers.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Not every relative needs to be your friend. Yeah, but
the ones who are takers will be your friend if
you're a gift because they can see it. They can
see it. Then there are those who are as balance
as you or are beginning to learn, so you can
journey with them in a healthy way, because we're beginning
to learn. We've been over giving, yeah, running from empty,
(23:01):
and then you can replenish each other. So they are
those friends and those relatives like that. So this has
happened to me.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, how did you leave you an example?
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Just you know, recently, I'm speaking last the week before last,
I'm speaking with a group of women, and they're like,
upon year, sixty four years old, you're going to that
thing now. I'm like, girls, I'm going through that thing now.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
It is what it is.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
It is what it is. Where there is a segment
of female relatives who are treating me or I have
allowed them. Actually I created a platform and invited them
(23:48):
onto that platform. And coming from a place of kindness
and generosity and standing on the abundance platform reaching out
to people and looking out for their needs and then
taking it and complaining about it and throwing that back
(24:15):
at me, and my getting to a place of realizing
that this is not dignifying. I am not I'm now
beginning to racket when I sleep. I'm like, but why
why did this? Yes, there's so much racket and you
know when you're racketing, there's there's no power in the racket.
(24:38):
Yeah I should say this. I should wake up and
send this. Yeah, I should send a voice. Yeah, I'm like,
but this is so powerless. I called myself to a
meeting and I said it's a wrap and I cut
(25:00):
out people. Yeah. I just said, but you're my relative.
Do you have to be my friend? No, you don't
have to be my friend. We can continue relating from
the place of I honor you.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Really we are just related.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Yeah, yeah, but you do I have to sit around
laughing with you, just laugh, love with yourself, love with
your friends, with your friends, if not your friend, yeah,
if it's a thing, I need to step in and
honor you, and step in finish honoring you as quickly
as I have finished honoring you, and then just sit
(25:39):
in the background of whatever it is that you're high on.
Yecause you're high on indignity and it's not one of
the things I ascribe to. You are high on enjoying
the pain that you cause me. So part of the
boundaries that I have said is being able to recognize
(26:00):
that this person they hurt me, they're not about to
say I am sorry, I recognize I hurt you, and
coming to the place of realizing they're actually enjoying the pain.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yeah, And you have to learn how to heal or
move on without the apology as well.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
And then you're in control, yes, over.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Who you allow in your space exactly.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Exactly, and very often in my circles, these are people
who believe time heals, and these are people who believe
that after that whole drama, I can come back and
pick up from where we left and continue using you.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
And actually for more than forty years I've allowed that,
So me, I mean a point, what is true?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
What I found very difficult, and boundaries is like boundaries
with family.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Yes, because those are the most difficult, I think.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Yes. Also because like social it's almost like you're having
you you know how you're feeling, Yes, but then what's
expected socially is different, so you battle, you know, you
battle with that. How have you managed to have healthy
boundaries within a family context? I know now you're you're
(27:30):
working on it.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Yeah, constantly, Yes, because it's boundaries constantly shift and so
we constantly have to shift with them. Yeah. And now
I'm a grandmother yes.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Congratulations, thank you.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
So then in my grandmotherhood I have to be grandmother
with boundaries. Yeah. Then then I'm an in law.
Speaker 7 (27:59):
Oh so those and those are don't think there are,
because society creates certain permissions for in.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Laws to treat you in a way that is not
necessarily dignifying. But there you speak, dare you say anything?
So I'm gonna I'll use you at your level of usability.
And if you did not know how to set that
(28:31):
boundary when you're very young in your twenties, you're in
your sixties and you realize I don't have a boundary.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Yes, yes, I learned that that's very true. Because also
the woman who allows herself to be used the most
is the good one always, and the one who doesn't
and has healthy boundaries. Yes, difficult, she's called difficult, and
(28:58):
she's called bad.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Yes, a bad woman.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
This woman is distractive, but she is actually prioritizing her peace,
her well being, which allows her to then be a
good person. Is the relationship.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
But the relationship could throw her out by the way,
So she wants the danger of the relationship ejecting, Yes,
because we have a multifaceted relationship in our marriage culture. Yes,
at the beginning, you think I'm getting married to so
and so. What you got married to a clan.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
That now thinks that you have to change your entire
identity culture to theirs. To there, you didn't exist, there
was nothing.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
No, you came like an empty board and now they're
going to write history into you. But also they have
certain expectations which at so many levels, it's at user level. Yeah, yeah,
shall I tell you something. There's something that I call
(30:12):
send a slave so we could educate you. Then we
send you to go and work in America. Then you
get to America, you know, did a harambe We sent you,
and you arrive there and Adele, you realize you have
(30:32):
to hold down three jobs to send money home to survive.
You're living on black coffee. You never have the Chai
whoopie that you had at home. You cannot eat organic
food because it's too expensive. You're eating McDonald's. You're a
(30:53):
canyon living on McDonald's. There's no devi. Yeah, you're just
living at the lowest level of existence, just so that
people at home can have money sent back to them.
You are sent a slave. You are the slave we
sent out to make sure that our life here is
(31:14):
going a particular way. Now, that very often happens with
a woman who gets married into a particular home and
you suddenly find that you are stripped of your rights
to make particular choices. We just expect you to cook
a big galley because you came here to cook. And
(31:35):
in the Lord of the word for coming to get
married is coming to cook. So now you better be cooking.
And the size of the gully can be so big. Yes,
so for me even just bringing it down to that
galley level and the setting of the boundary that I
had over that. I remember arriving and this young woman
(31:57):
grew up in Parklands. I don't know how to cook
that it gally four five people. Yes, I know how
to cook the galley for maybe eight maximum, but now
when it comes to this funeral size to galleon, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
And the point is getting the pomongers.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
And so the women said, okay, so now that the
water has boiled, we want you to cook the galley.
And I'm looking at these women and I'm like, this
is that thing. It's village bullies. And they've descended on me.
And I said, no, I have no problem. I'll cook
the galley. And I took my khaki and I said,
and you will go and seeagata Unga. The woman said,
(32:38):
what do you mean, I don't know how to drive
a car. I said, okay, I'll go and siagat the
wunga and you cook the galley. I know something that
you don't know, and you know something that I don't know.
For me, it was possible for me to have that
conversation because I was a high school teacher when I
got married, so I was already equipped. But very many
women get bullied to the point where they cannot even speak.
(33:02):
So the boundary that I set on that day is,
if you ask me to do something, you better know
everything that I know how to do. Then only then
a week equal. But here we can be equal where
I know somethings and you know something and now we
can work together. So those are some of the boundaries
(33:25):
I set at that level. Yeah, but these boundaries they
just kept shifting on me. With my own family members.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
It's never enough, like the takers once more, it's never enough.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Yeah, it's never enough. It's never enough.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Yeah, And I don't know. What I also feel like
is why women shouldn't participate. I don't think you should
have to negotiate your respect by like giving something or
your dignity or your That's not something I completely.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Agreed, No, it shouldn't. But then once I've been cornered,
then I have to bring something for my own arsenal yes,
and say okay, god drive yeah you go, well, go
go get that because you, I mean, you brought in
a huge one for me, a huge guy. Yeah, bring
in a huge. I mean, what have we gonna do? Yes?
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Now what now?
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Okay? So boundary is very important, and I love the
openness that it's never ending. You constantly and I am
still even catching myself like where I'm just like, it
seems like they're no boundaries here. What's happening? You know?
You also talk about toxic people and how you irritate them? Yes,
(34:42):
what does that mean? And why why is it so
important that you speak to our community about that?
Speaker 3 (34:49):
This is why this is important. I I am actually
constantly on the trajectory of growth, growing, studying the right things,
going into the right places, relating with the right people
so that I can learn and grow. And part of
(35:11):
growth is constantly for me. A value that I've established
for my life is to be dignifying to people and
to treat people with dignity and to grow people in
a way that is dignifying. Right, there are people that
(35:31):
you cannot do that with rates, and it is just
like that's just what it is, is what it is.
There are people who are committed to the opposite, committed
to being toxic, committed to being nasty, committed to the
contracting people. So even as I step out and I say,
(35:56):
my life is about having transformational relationship and transforming people
in ways that add value to me and transforms me
so that we are growing like this conversation, a conversation
that grows you and grows me. Conversations like this. The
people who just cannot have this kind of conversation because
(36:17):
they're just thinking, who does she think she is? She's
too dark, she's too fat? Why does she who does
she think she thinks? She knows all that? She better
not come in and try and tell me any of that. Yes,
and there are people who would rather pull somebody down
rather than list somebody up. So just recently occurred to me,
(36:43):
I've been knowing that there are people who are pigs.
They like to be Yeah, let me just say it
straight out. They like to be in the mark and
wallowing it. And they like to invite you to join them.
And one of you will not be happy with the dirt.
One of you will want to get up and go
(37:05):
and shower, clean up, but the other one really had fun.
They're constantly inviting you to a fight, into some gassy chaloes,
into into beating down somebody. Yes, So the question you
asked me is what about these toxic people. Yes, and
(37:28):
what do you do with them? What was the question?
How you how I irritate them?
Speaker 2 (37:33):
And how you know?
Speaker 3 (37:35):
It recently occurred to me, even in my silence around
some people, they are so irritated they'll create a thing
about me, something to go and say. You know, there's
there's always saying uh lee equal the colorco talk. You
(37:57):
only speak about the elephant when the elephant is facing
the other direction. They're not there. I turned out to
be an elephant people there. I have toxic people in
my life who say the most negative things about me,
but they never say it to my answer, they can yeah,
(38:22):
And so it occurred to me that I irritate toxic people.
Let me give you astounding example. I hired one of
my relatives needs somebody to look after her, and in December,
(38:47):
I looked at that situation and this is not a
nice person. This is a toxic person. I know, I
know it. But somebody who was a needer as a
need whether they are toxic there what toxic that it
is there? So I said, okay, fine, I'm going to
hire somebody to look after her and look after her house,
(39:08):
making just make sure that she has a pleasant environment,
and I went ahead did this. I said, this this person,
I hire them for you. Oh, thank you so much. Oh,
I really appreciate that I had this person. This person
was doing all the work in the house.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Do you know.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Eventually, there's two weeks ago, the message that she's been
griping with and rolling other griperson is why am I
paying that person so much? So I said, okay, fine,
what's the problem. What's the problem you have with this person?
(39:47):
Are you I? It's the problem that she's not working. Well, no, no, no,
the level of what she's doing doesn't deserve the level
of salary. I said, But I'm very happy she is
trying to go to college. I'm very happy to pay
her that. I'm no, no, no, Actually, our problem is
(40:09):
only with the salary. Okay, that is toxic. And so
the way that I turned up for this person irritated
her and all the people around her. And I was
able to come to the place where I recognize that
actually I irritate toxic people, and that's a place of
(40:34):
to arrive at and be at peace with, because prior
to that, I thought it was my job to keep
enrolling them on. My goodness, Yes, and like.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
You will save them and change them.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
And you yeah yeah, and to relax and be happy
and enjoy the goodness that I'm doing for them. No, no, no, no, no.
Turns out it's not my job. I'm not, you know.
And it turns out it's not my job to get
them to love me. I did that. They'll try to
(41:10):
get them to love me, to get them to honor me,
to get them to be empathetic to me. I realized
that girl that I had hired for them for that
person was now being abused, and I moved her from
that situation two weeks ago. I moved her from that situation.
(41:36):
I irritate them.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
I think it's authenticity, you know, Yes, I think that's
very ritating. And it's something you mentioned that I think
it's worth just mentioning before we move to your next
passion points that you have to share with our community. Gossip.
I started realizing the more soft work I do, I
(42:01):
don't like how I feel when.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
I gossip, the more self what you.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Do, and I just I kind of there's a judgments
with gossip that I'm comfortable for me.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
Oh good, it's like well done?
Speaker 2 (42:19):
What makes me decide?
Speaker 3 (42:21):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (42:22):
What someone else should be doing with it right, Yes,
but I think it also you can think you're bonding
over gossip, but you don't know each other and you
can't bond, can you. So when you include that in
the toxic space, I think it's valid. We never do.
I think it's very important that you did that.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, and just allow people who are toxic.
I'm not junior, Holy Spirit, I've not been sent to
you know so many times I think I am. But
just the interruption to realize it wasn't my job to
repair these people, to just let them be, and first
(43:05):
of all, don't overrelate with these people, but take yourself
away from it and anybody that you have that is hurting,
just remove the people that are hurting. Sound up for
people that are hurting.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Yes, yeah, So that the other passion point is what
I'm calling them that you had was sitting at a table.
Can I guess what you meant to before this?
Speaker 3 (43:29):
Guess and it might be the whole story and knowing knew, like,
let's hear it. Is it that we need to.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Make sure we're sitting at tables that are having conversations
that affect us. Is that what you mean by sitting
at a table.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
When conversations that conversations that affect us but also that
affect our values.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
Yes, okay, so break it down for us.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
Yes, too much of how you and I have been invited.
And it's interesting that you're my daughter, and you and
I are still sitting in the same spaces where the
table is not necessarily open for us at the social level,
(44:22):
at the religious level, the community level, family level, tables
where because Adele is this young woman, her voice is
not expected to have any impact on the trajectory of conversations. Yeah,
(44:48):
and so we are apologetic even when we want to
get to the table and you start your sentenced with sorry, yes,
may I, may I, may I just add sorry, may
I just add God?
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (45:04):
Yeah, so we have and then we speak in the
past tense. I just wanted to.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
Say, yes, oh my god, we do that.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
Yes, we do that because so much power is is
we have thrown away so much power. Yeah, we've thrown
away so much power in these environments that you speak
from a place of apology. Yeah, so I'm sorry, uncle, Sorry,
(45:38):
I may I interget at that time you're the only
intellectual person on that particular topic, but you're saying I
just wanted to add that when it comes to filmmaking,
that we need to have a person who is qualified
to do the filming. You're apologize and the only Adell
(46:01):
News the rest of the family don't even know, but
you apologize for your interjection. So sitting at the table
has to do with so much retrospection and coming building
yourself first. We have so much work to do in
building our powers that then allow us to sit at
(46:24):
the table with grace and power. So it doesn't mean
that when I'm at the table, I lack grace or
that I take away people's dignity or people's spaces. No,
it means that as a woman, to recognize that there
is a table to start with, to then go and
(46:48):
take a seat, or to create a seat and your
own table, create a seat, have my own table, and
tell people, Okay, fine, that was a powerful conversation. Next
week I have a table. Like now you've invited me
to this table, and I'm sitting in this studio with
you because you created your table. This is Adele's table.
(47:12):
And when you create the table to say come a pond,
come alongside, Yes, there's a table here, let us sit here.
At the table and let us speak about these things.
Let's let us build people. Yeah, how did you.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Now we did that? I don't know if it's fear
or if it's socialization that makes us do this. Sorry
may I, or even sorry may I is even on
the good side, because sometimes you'll sit then be silent
throughout right.
Speaker 3 (47:48):
How did you.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
Own your seat at the table?
Speaker 3 (47:52):
How did I own my seat at the table with tables?
I'm constantly looking at the tables anyway.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
Yeah, back, do you remember a moment where you actually
spoke up for yourself in a conversation in that was
going to affect you or that you could add value
to Yes, even though maybe you were the only woman. Yeah,
or maybe it was a time where people didn't want
to your moment.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. In my line of work,
because I did a lot of social development consultancy, and
it meant running meetings and facilitating conferences, and sometimes when
it was a scientific conference, as the only woman in
the room, I'm the facilitated but I'm the only woman
(48:40):
in the room. And that in my thirties, my early
thirties allowed me to stand in a position where my
voice was the voice guiding the meeting. I may not
understand what it is you're speaking about, but I'm the
only one equipped to guide the meeting. And during that work,
(49:04):
I remember the first time I was hired by Feeder
to go and run a conference, I realized that I
was going into the study of law around human rights
and general rights. And one day it occurred to me,
why am I trying to be an expert where there's
(49:26):
a room full of experts and my job and I
did adele, I think this is the clincher for this conversation.
My job is to be authentic and to have the
skills to guide the conversation. So to learn that I
am not to be the expert in everything, but I'm
(49:50):
to be the expert in the thing that I have
taken on, and my job is to guide people to
have powerful conversations. Yes, so with that I was able
to take a seat and too when walking into a
room if they're discussing. I remember the first time I
(50:11):
facilitated a workshop on window pest and going into the
room and saying, I'll be your facilitator for this five
days and I don't know what rinder pest is. Yeah,
just to authentically be in that space of its okay,
and I am committed to running a powerful workshop. And
(50:33):
at the end of this workshop, we shall have achieved
all our objectives. That is my commitment to you. Yeah. Yeah,
I don't know what Rinda pest is and I don't
know if I will know by Friday, but.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
You will have an impactful workshop.
Speaker 3 (50:49):
It will be impactful, yes, and I will be able
to guide it in an impactful way. Just to be
able to know and to be at peace with I
am the expert in this area, and it's okay to
work alongside other experts that gave me a seat at
the table.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
So it still come back to like knowledge of self. Yes, yes,
because then you're like, that's why I'm in this room,
that's why, Yes, I'm going to go to that table.
That's why I'm going to speak up. Yes, this is
the part I'm an expert.
Speaker 3 (51:23):
Yes, exactly. And then in the space of also speaking up,
two observe and see the people in my life, in
my sphere of influence who don't have a seat at
the table, and to raise my voice and invite them
(51:47):
not only to the table, but also push off the
toxic people who don't want this person to be at
the table so that their voice can also be heard,
because they have an important voice. Yes.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
The last point that really caught my attention when it
comes to what you want to share with our community
has to do with the boy child, and would I
call it their socialization or yes? What is this burning
point you have?
Speaker 3 (52:22):
Okay, I'm so glad you picked it. That's one of
the things you wanted me to speak about. So, glad adele,
look at this scenario. There's a twelve year old girl, yeah,
and a fifteen year old boy right. Their mother is
(52:45):
going on a trip for a week, and their father
doesn't live here because he works somewhere else. So she's
leaving these people in the house. Who is she instructing
around food?
Speaker 2 (53:00):
The twelve year old the twelve year old girl.
Speaker 3 (53:04):
She's instructing the twelve year old girl, who's she living with?
The money for the milk, the GUIDERI and all the dinners.
It's this twelve year old girl. Yes, So society has
come into to a place where we have a blindness
towards this boy child, and this boy child, we are
(53:29):
actually not giving him adequate capacity and skills to be
a leader. But at the end, of the day. We
say he must be the leader because he stands up
to be, because he stands up to be, not because
he is more skilled than.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
His Yeah he doesn't have the skills.
Speaker 3 (53:52):
Yeah, he doesn't have the skills, but because he's a boy.
So this little girl who has run this boy's life,
she's not being given that job. Yes, And the sad
the sad thing about it is that it doesn't work
for society. It doesn't work for that boy. He's not
(54:13):
as equipped as he would be. Secondly, when he when
you have this little boy and a little girl and
you have a doll, who do you give the doll
to the girl? To the girl? And you give the
boy a football? He's not going to be a father?
(54:38):
What's going on? He's you know what's going on here?
What's going on? Is he not going to be a father?
Speaker 2 (54:46):
Can she not like football?
Speaker 3 (54:48):
Can she not like seotball? Or you give him a car?
But can she not drive? Why is she being told?
And so you by age five, your daughter sat saying
I'll marry a man who has a car. But you're thinking,
but why don't you have a car. Yes, then you
buy him an aeroplane and he says, I'll be a pilot,
(55:09):
But why why, why, why why doesn't she have a
toy aeroplane?
Speaker 4 (55:14):
And she can say I want to be a pilot,
she can say that, or she can say I want
to run a whole airl like I'm going to have
a fleet of plas Yes, so her aspirations, she has
to push through.
Speaker 3 (55:28):
Life to get to where she gets eventually, and through
so much so. This boy also when he leaves the
house and he's fifteen years old, and he's got a
twin sister and she's fifteen, what time do you want
that girl in the house? And what time do you
(55:48):
want that in the house? You want her like by five,
and you want her in the house before it's dark.
You want her in the house before it's dark.
Speaker 2 (55:56):
And him, is there even a time you just want
when he comes?
Speaker 3 (56:00):
He comes, when he comes to us, and will have
already served dinner. And yes, this fifteen year old sister right,
And he is not being protected from the sexual predators
that are raping him, even the neighbors, his friend's father
(56:21):
is raping him. This boy, he is fifteen years old.
But the shield and protection that his sister is getting,
she's not getting and then the predators know it, so
they very quickly. He's high on BANGI. He is high
on every narcotics that's available right his sister even smoking
(56:44):
a cigarette. Women smoke cigarettes in hotel bathrooms because society
has set such high standards for women's behavior, moral behavior,
social behavior that you and I can sit here just
start smoking online online smoking as we're having this conversation.
(57:04):
We can't. Could be a couple of men having you
know they and they're smoking even smoking live alone bangye
or you know. So at the end of the day,
what's happening is there's such a blindness to the protection
of that boy child that we are allowing him to
(57:26):
be brought up by wolves because society is telling him
so many things. But society is protecting your daughter. They
will come home and tell you, Mama, kids, I is
so kid at the shops, and I don't like the
(57:47):
young women she's hanging out with. Those are not good
young women. Yeah, even a complete stranger. I say, now, Nannie,
oh no, I'm your neighbor, and I say that that
she curos like inisipend hours. Yes, nobody will tell you
a thing about your son until you realize this guy
is so high, you're sending him to rehab because society
(58:09):
has very low standards to hold him up with. So
I want to finish off Adele by saying this. One time,
my husband and I were doing a gender study and
I think we were hired he was hired by I
think it was Defeat, And we were looking at certain
secondary schools and we went to the schools to look
(58:34):
at the dormitories boarding schools, to look at the dormitories
for boys, dormitories for girls. And I'll give you an
example of what a typical dormitory in our regular schools,
not the high class. These are regular schools. The dormitory
if you've never been, and Adele, I'm going to challenge
(58:54):
you to go and see it and to actually have
a segment just on this conversation. We went. We looked
at the dormitory for the boys, broken windows, those stom
fence around it, the right next to the playing fields.
We said, okay, where the bed sheets? Where the mattresses?
(59:14):
I think, okay, they have mattresses, but they just use
blankets because they their bed sheets get stolen as soon
as they come to from one and then sold they're
either selling them what so they just slip on the
mattress they covered and said, this dome is smelling. You
can smell it from outside. Not only is the dom
(59:37):
smelling from the bathrooms, but they're smelling from the ways
the beds are. It's failed you smell the filth of
these boys. Do the shower. Wow, there's the showers there. Okay,
is there somebody who is in here to ensure that
the boys shower. No, it's up to them. We looked
(01:00:01):
at this situation and they called, the windows are broken.
It was just so bad. So we said, okay, fine,
let's look at the girl's door, the girl's dormitory. There
was a gate and a wall with Ninnie's spikes on top.
At the gate there you start seeing the flowers as
(01:00:24):
you're walking through the gate to this place. These girls,
there's a matron who looks after them, takes care of
these girls. We asked, okay, so why is there a
difference because these are girls. Again, the thing is is
(01:00:47):
because they said to be the all children our mama.
The girls there's a metron. They have to shower ee day.
Their beds are made crisp, with bed sheets white and
(01:01:08):
the bed is folded back, and they have a basin
their basin. They said, what's the basin under the bed.
It's put under the bed. It's right under the same
like military precision all. That's the basin that they use
to shower. So every girl has a basin that she
uses to shower. She has a towel that's dripped on
(01:01:31):
her bed. We said, okay, so when these children come
to school, what does it look like. They say, we
have a list for things the girls must come with
underwhere they must bring a certain number. They have to
have a certain number of slips, they have to have
(01:01:52):
a numbers, a certain number of bed sheets because these
are washed regularly. They have to have this that there's
such a big list. The boys had a very short list.
We said, why the only thing that these girls need
to have that's different from these boys is a brand pads,
sanitary towels, and a bra. That's the only thing that
(01:02:17):
should be different. Why aren't these boys asked to bring
the same number? Yes, and why don't they have a
matron or a patron or somebody who looks after them
in the same way. Those are the standards that are
very different. There's a huge neglect. It's been systematized, and
(01:02:37):
it's breaking down our society in terms of the quality
and even can you imagine that trauma this person grows
up with? This is somebody will.
Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
Beat up the world, they say, I think a lot
of the issues we have in terms of like violence
with sexual violence and all of these issues that we're
and that that's done two women, right, Yes, it's because
we have been the monsters who perpetuates this.
Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Who are men?
Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
We have been grooming them, yes, and growing these monsters.
Speaker 3 (01:03:16):
Yes, and now we're.
Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
Shocked that this is happening. But I'm like, it could
only end up like we were preparing for this actually exactly,
because that's that socialization, that breakdown is what's happening. And
I also feel like even for the girls, that extremness
doesn't even allow for individuality. Right, So it's almost like
(01:03:38):
you if you're like what you're saying, we can't smoke
or we can if you're you have to do this
and only this, right, there has to be care, yes,
across the board, and there has to be room for
the individual. Yes, who are you as a pond? Who
are you as opone? Who are you as Jane? Who
(01:03:58):
are you as Johns to be exactly? And so as
we wrap the episode, what is one thing you can
leave the woman watching this with? What's one message you
want to leave The.
Speaker 3 (01:04:12):
Key message for me is don't stagnate. Do not stagnate.
Grow yourself, constantly seek higher values. Educate your mind, educate
your spirit, educate your keep replenishing your soul and your
(01:04:32):
spirit in every way that is possible, and grow yourself.
Don't stagnate. People are either going backwards or going forward,
and you can't get to a place where you say
you're wholesome, umefica. You just constantly grow yourself and plug
onto people who are going in the same direction as you. Yeah,
(01:04:56):
and it's okay to let people go. It's okay. Not
every is going to climb the mountain. Yeah, yeah, just
climb the mountain with they who are climbing it.
Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
Thank you so much for making time to cover the show.
I'm so happy to finally have you here. And I
think just by you being you, you are inspiring so
many of us. I watch you sometimes when you're with kids,
and I'm just like, oh, she's making so much sense.
This is she's like our collective friend and mother right,
(01:05:30):
and so I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you
check out the description will not only share ways in
which you can come into contact with the incredible work
that Apondly does, but I might put in some of
my favorite episodes from her and Kids who is her
daughter's show online? Make sure you like this episode, share
(01:05:52):
it and all the maneless and almost manalist women and
your like and I have say a big thank you
for you being here with us throughout the second season,
being part of the community. We love and appreciate you.
And the final thank you has got to go out
to Polished Hopes who have been our partner a poni
have been admiring our spets. The first thing you asked
(01:06:14):
for was like, yeah, this was my favorite despite like
my favorite polished homes have made all of this possible.
So we're very painful for them for believing in us
and pushali Ara for season two
Welcome to for Mannerist Women.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
I am Adela and YOUNGO your host, and this is
a space that is committed to naturing a new generation
of shame free women who are ready to meet their
best self. And in this episode, we dive into something
that we love here, which is intergenerational friendships.
Speaker 1 (00:18):
My friend of Pondee, who.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Is a life coach and a relationship minister, is coming
to share five passion points with you. I am so
excited that you're here because I wanted you to come
on season one.
Speaker 1 (00:39):
We didn't manage to make it.
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Work then, but like you're here now, and I think
you are an example of how people can center their
identity and their agency and their power as women and
still do the things that bring them joy.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
We'd like you to run my CV center.
Speaker 1 (01:02):
Yes, I really think so.
Speaker 2 (01:05):
Whenever I talk to kids, your your daughter we went
to school together, and Tawi and I went to school together.
Whenever she's we had a conversation about identity and I
kept saying, we have to also talk about a Pondie
and how seeing her remain true to herself modeled that
(01:25):
to you as well.
Speaker 1 (01:26):
So I'm starting off by giving you your flowers.
Speaker 3 (01:28):
Thank you. Yeah, thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
Yeah, thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:32):
I shouldn't touch this, no, it's my chest.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
The the reason I think it's so important to have
you on the show is as found it important for
women to seek and to have intergenerational friendships. Yes, I've
seen how powerful that is for me, and I wonder
if that's something that's the same on your end.
Speaker 3 (01:56):
Yeah, yeah, but never tell me what you're saying. Earlier
before we went, you know.
Speaker 2 (02:02):
So when I moved out of Nairobi, the first friend
I made who was on season one of this show.
Actually her name is Mary, and the first time we met,
we spoke for hours. First time, like we sat and
we spoke for like two hours, this stranger who were
like I've just bumped it, and we would talk about
(02:23):
deep things like grief and with a complete stranger, and
it just kicked off our friendship. And with time I
started to understand like how we're socialized to think about friendships,
even female friendships. First they're discouraged because you're told women
you're your own worst enemies. Secondly, they have to look
like you and be the same age as you. Yes,
(02:45):
but I find that that's what's important, is having that
intergenerational friend amongst women.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Is that the same for you?
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Well, you said earlier on that your friend Mary, she's
a particular age. Yeah, she's a she's sixty eight, yeah,
and I'm sixty four. Yeah. And so what happened for
me is that only recently did it suddenly occur to
me that my friends are so many different ages. But
(03:18):
it came from a place of having to have given
myself permission to have these friends. So, like you say,
I too was boxed in. Yeah, as boxed in by religion. Yeah,
so your friends need to be a particular religion. Yeah,
none of that. Do like Jesus did when you are
(03:38):
with the Samaritans.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
Yeah no, no, no, no, no, no, no no, you just.
Speaker 3 (03:43):
Say with the Jews. Yeah, that kind of thing. So,
for the longest time, my friends were of a particular religion,
particular faith, and my closest friends were also people the
same age as me, because we are being channed out
by a colonial systems of education which blocks us into
(04:06):
age groups.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
There, yes, yes, and that you can only learn and
hang out with these ones your age.
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Now it's just calling an aerobi and everybody is six
years old in Standard one or the whole lot of you.
Otherwise you don't get admission. Yes, because schools are full,
you have to stay back. Yeah. So my friends were
my age but recently I realized that my youngest friends
are twenty two.
Speaker 2 (04:31):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (04:32):
Yeah, my oldest friends are in their seventies. Yeah, and
every age group is just fine. Yeah. Like somebody I
would call my friend now is kid's friend Steph, who
is my fitness coach, and I see her at least
twice a week and she's helping me through my strength
(04:54):
training and just speaking with her, hanging out with her online. Yeah,
she's coaching me. It's marvelous. So, yes, friendship across the board,
and they don't need to be people of certain color yeah,
certain languages, certain hair slice. It's okay my hair is
locked and your hair is none none, and somebody else's
(05:18):
hair is a week. Yeah, it doesn't matter. Yeah, yes, yes,
And you.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
Know what before we get into what we you know
the key points you want to share with our community,
because that's another thing I love is that there's so
much to learn from you. I want us to go
back to the last time I saw you, and you
don't even remember this. It was years ago. I was
(05:43):
probably like a teenager and I had I was going
through a turburn phase, like I've always been very expressive
what I do with my look. And we definitely were
in a breast cancer awareness girl dinner or something. My
mom was there, and my turban kept falling off. Of
(06:06):
course I wasn't tying it right right, so like I'd
be sitting down and it's like, oh, no, rush in
the bathroom. And I was in the bathroom the same
time with you, and you say, let me help you.
And literally in this bathroom, I'm like crouching down and
you're like, yeah, so when you tie it, make sure
you do it.
Speaker 1 (06:21):
That you were teaching.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Me, I was, yes, and I just it was probably
such a fleeting moment for you, but for me, I
was just like this is so kind, like thank you
so much, and and it's a properly, it's not properly,
but I think that just speaks to like the energy
that you have. And when you were coming to the show,
I was trying to remember when it was the last
(06:43):
time we saw each other, and it was that yeah, yeah,
I love yes that I.
Speaker 3 (06:48):
Love that you held that memory.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
Yes, yes, I remember it so clearly. But the key
passion points that you want to share with women. So
the first one has everything to do with money and
a financial independence.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
Why do you think this is so important?
Speaker 3 (07:06):
You know, I did not realize the importance of financial
independence in the context of shared domestic economy and just
(07:30):
traveling through life with a life partner who I fully trust,
my husband, kid's father, and who with who we evolved
a process of having a shared part, and from that
(07:53):
shared part, anyone of us being able to take out
what they need and.
Speaker 4 (07:59):
Use it.
Speaker 3 (08:04):
Seemed fantastic. But as I got older, I was arriving
without realizing it to a place where I'm like, no,
but I don't have an investment that I can draw
(08:26):
from and choose to do something totally random and uncharacteristic
for which I do not seek to need to seek
agreement or understanding. And sometimes these are important things, like,
(08:49):
for instance, I'm sixty four years old right now, Yeah,
and I could be waiting to go and visit the
hells of the land of music a sound of music, yeah,
and just be there in Austria or so some random
(09:11):
place like that. Oh, family finances, Who do you ask permission?
You can't even ask yourself permission to use money randomly,
you just go to some hills. Who do you ask
for me?
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Yeah? And then you're like, so should this come out
of the shared pot or like where does it come out?
Speaker 3 (09:35):
Come out? Yeah, because you're thinking this is obnoxious. How
do I get into this money and take out this
money and just make choices that they're okay choices. It's
not a bad choice. But this is shared port and
the values around that shared pot of money was already stu. Yes,
(10:01):
there's very strong values that's taking care of that, so
none of us. I mean, I would be horrified if
he's taking out that money and he's just on some
random with girlfriends. Yeah, like I take off with some
young girl and he takes off with some young men,
and really it's not going that way. So just a
(10:24):
place where you and I can decide Adele, you could say,
you know what, can we go hang out in Dubai? Yeah,
And I'm able to reach into that part and take
it without consulting, but also to just decide that because
he's such a good man. I love him so much.
(10:46):
He's always wanted to have a ranch. Yeah, I've got
the money. I'm going to absolutely buy that ranch for
him and present it to him for Christmas. Agency agen c. Yes.
So it turned out that I needed to have had
(11:10):
a pot of money that I invested earlier than I started.
So I started late, but thank goodness, I had the
resources to start late with. I had already invested a
few things here I and a few things there, so
I was able to take that and now invest and
(11:30):
be able to come out and have my own resources
at the level at which I would like to have resources,
And it gives me power. At another level, that shared
pot gave me so much power, but now this one
of being able to take off and do as I
want without feeling the guilt of taking from the family pot.
(11:57):
That was a very important thing. And every woman needs that,
actually every man needs it. Everybody needs to have that
resource that they can reach and be able to do
whatever it is that they want to do.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
And in fact, I always feel like when women are
being socialized in terms of finances or like oh, you know,
you'll get married, et cetera, I wish it wasn't presented
as have a hidden account.
Speaker 1 (12:27):
I hear that because because then.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
It's like it's, uh, we're waiting for something to go wrong.
I feel like having that it's the agency to decide,
which is wonderful and makes you an even more attractive partner,
more attractive friend, because you're like free right. Yes, when
(12:50):
when you were younger with the conversation on finances, what
were they telling women in terms of money visa v
Getting married or into relationship.
Speaker 3 (13:03):
I don't come from a community that says hide some money.
And because I do a lot of bridle shower work
in Kenya, we have communities that actually say hide money,
hide some money, right, So but my community says, give
all the money. So you see that that's a story. Yeah, yeah,
(13:27):
give all the money, put all the money on the table.
So that's the that's the narrative.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (13:37):
But somewhere along the way I learned on my own
to hide money. Yeah and yes, And I told my husband,
because you're my friend, I need to let you know
I hide money from you. And when you ask me
(13:58):
if I have money, I like, yeah, I just want
to put it on the table that I like you secret,
I like to you yeah, yes yeah, And he's like,
but why do you lie to me? I said, because
every once in a while, you are in such a
tight place I hate looking at you when you're in
that tight place. You don't You're not in a good place,
(14:19):
And I want to be able to find it and
give it to you, because that tight place is not
a place that lives you empowered when you're a young man.
He's a very young person. Yeah, and I was a
very young girl. You got married when I was twenty five.
Speaker 1 (14:33):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (14:34):
Yes, so he does know. He did know that I
would have hide of the money for me, And I
said it, I said, I am just putting this on
the table looking you are that money is hidden from you. Yeah,
So I bring it out and then be able to
help you. But then I also discovered that in the
(14:55):
context of that common pot and the harassment of the
role provider that he has been given by society, which
is not Biblical, which is just social. Yeah, nobody has
a Bible verse for you, pastors. Pastors don't have a
Bible verse that calls this person provider because he is
(15:19):
the profession thank you yahwe. But because of that, he
gets harassed by society because it's not only provision at
the family nucleus level, but it expands in society. So
this person is harassed and this person needs to be
covered beyond what he himself has, So then he wouldn't
(15:44):
give it back because he can't. Well, he find it.
He's a teacher, he is a high school teacher, is
only just starting. Well, he find it, so by why
do I find it? And he's correct, And so I
realized it's not coming back.
Speaker 2 (16:01):
I'm hide.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
So now I'd find other ways of it getting to him.
But never threw my name.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
Oh wow, what tricks and he's.
Speaker 3 (16:15):
Kills because I said, I'll be lying, you die, so
you'd be lying to you. So I'd find another person
who he like, his own family member, say you know
this guy is like this, like that, he needs some
money and I can send it to you. You give
it to him, and then when it needs to get back,
(16:38):
it gets back through you and me and hidden work
into that hidden I love that.
Speaker 1 (16:46):
It's so interesting.
Speaker 3 (16:48):
Yes, yeah, because at that time I had no capacity
to invest. I only had the capacity to hide. Yes,
so that hidden part, we don't need it, but we
do need to invest, and we don't need to ask
permission to invest. We do have the authority given to
(17:09):
us by the Almighty to invest. So rise up, invest
and keep it moving.
Speaker 1 (17:17):
And it does something I can't explain it.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
I know we look at like financial independence for women
as survival, but I look at it there's a freedom
and a clarity and even like a muscle of courage that.
Speaker 1 (17:32):
It gives you.
Speaker 2 (17:33):
You know that you were able to do this thing
and then you invested it and it's like, wow, I
can do that?
Speaker 1 (17:38):
What more can I do? You know what?
Speaker 3 (17:41):
I think that and women just keep giving back into
it goes.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
It's not Reds father than just ask Fred's father.
Speaker 3 (17:49):
And whatever I use on me, whatever I use on
me to glow, to live and to be empowered and
to grow its impact. Everybody is a beneficiar, even if
I just went to do buy for two weeks and
could you be in Jermy for that for a couple
of weeks?
Speaker 1 (18:09):
But belitician read exactly.
Speaker 2 (18:12):
There's something else you talk about that I struggled with
for so long, and I didn't even know I was
struggling with it at the time. Boundaries.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
I don't.
Speaker 2 (18:27):
When I look back at that girl, I'm just like,
what what was happening?
Speaker 1 (18:32):
I did not have.
Speaker 2 (18:35):
Any boundaries in my personal life, and I think it's
because not. I think therapy has helped me understand. It's
because I didn't see myself as worthy. So in friendships
or in relationships, I would arrive with no boundaries because
I feel like you're doing me a favor by being
(18:57):
my friend, a favor by being partner. So it's a
free for all. I'm not going to say no, because
when you go, then you're farming. I'm not worthy, so
I want you to stay right. But thank god that
phase ended because then you run out of fuel first
and foremost, Yes, you run out of fuel with no boundaries.
(19:19):
And some of the most transformative work I've done in
terms of self work has been building healthy boundaries. Yes,
what was your relationship with boundaries?
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Like, you know, I'm building this ship as I say it. Yes,
so I haven't finished building it yet.
Speaker 2 (19:43):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (19:43):
Yeah. And so that whole thing that you went through,
I believe it's everybody's experience, Adele, only that you interrupted
the trajectory of it. You did that, and you're able
to recognize it and able to do something about it.
(20:09):
I'd like to put it to you that the work
isn't over.
Speaker 5 (20:11):
Oh yeah, that is a hectic Every boundary comes a
new horizon of boundaries needed to be needing.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
To be built. Yes, so, and I didn't know that,
but these horizons keep coming to me. And what's going
on here?
Speaker 2 (20:31):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (20:32):
So hm, let's look at patriarchy and the way that
society has designed for you and I.
Speaker 2 (20:45):
To be give us, yes, and it's celebrated. The more
you give, it's celebrated. And then the takers.
Speaker 3 (20:55):
Yeah. Somebody once said that, you know, in this world
they give us and take us. Then they are giver
us who are takers, and then they are takers who
are takers. Okay, then there's give us who are give us, yeah,
but never take back in exactly right. So what happens
with somebody who finds out that actually they didn't have
(21:16):
many boundaries is most likely how you've been designed by
society to be a giving So you keep giving, and
you keep giving and then and I say sorry on
behalf of society, because I'm your mother.
Speaker 6 (21:31):
Yeah, so on behalf of society, I say sorry, yeah,
because I didn't teach you when you are very young
to create boundaries.
Speaker 3 (21:43):
I taught you to be kind. I taught you to
have a big white smile.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
Yes.
Speaker 3 (21:50):
I taught you to suck it in and when your
heart and to sit in that corner, suck your thumb
and come out with a smile, and continue giving until
you gave from empty. Yes, yeah, yeah, and when you
gave from empty, you went to a therapist. Yeah yeah,
(22:10):
because you're like, now there's nothing even for me. I
can't even give myself. Yeah, because I have given it
all away until I come back empty. And so that's
good and it's not like it's going away, this this
thing of being people recognizing Adell is a giver, and
(22:31):
so a lot of the friends then that you are
trapped at takers and relatives who are takers.
Speaker 2 (22:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (22:39):
Not every relative needs to be your friend. Yeah, but
the ones who are takers will be your friend if
you're a gift because they can see it. They can
see it. Then there are those who are as balance
as you or are beginning to learn, so you can
journey with them in a healthy way, because we're beginning
to learn. We've been over giving, yeah, running from empty,
(23:01):
and then you can replenish each other. So they are
those friends and those relatives like that. So this has
happened to me.
Speaker 1 (23:08):
Yeah, how did you leave you an example?
Speaker 3 (23:11):
Just you know, recently, I'm speaking last the week before last,
I'm speaking with a group of women, and they're like,
upon year, sixty four years old, you're going to that
thing now. I'm like, girls, I'm going through that thing now.
Speaker 1 (23:27):
It is what it is.
Speaker 3 (23:28):
It is what it is. Where there is a segment
of female relatives who are treating me or I have
allowed them. Actually I created a platform and invited them
(23:48):
onto that platform. And coming from a place of kindness
and generosity and standing on the abundance platform reaching out
to people and looking out for their needs and then
taking it and complaining about it and throwing that back
(24:15):
at me, and my getting to a place of realizing
that this is not dignifying. I am not I'm now
beginning to racket when I sleep. I'm like, but why
why did this? Yes, there's so much racket and you
know when you're racketing, there's there's no power in the racket.
(24:38):
Yeah I should say this. I should wake up and
send this. Yeah, I should send a voice. Yeah, I'm like,
but this is so powerless. I called myself to a
meeting and I said it's a wrap and I cut
(25:00):
out people. Yeah. I just said, but you're my relative.
Do you have to be my friend? No, you don't
have to be my friend. We can continue relating from
the place of I honor you.
Speaker 1 (25:13):
Really we are just related.
Speaker 3 (25:16):
Yeah, yeah, but you do I have to sit around
laughing with you, just laugh, love with yourself, love with
your friends, with your friends, if not your friend, yeah,
if it's a thing, I need to step in and
honor you, and step in finish honoring you as quickly
as I have finished honoring you, and then just sit
(25:39):
in the background of whatever it is that you're high on.
Yecause you're high on indignity and it's not one of
the things I ascribe to. You are high on enjoying
the pain that you cause me. So part of the
boundaries that I have said is being able to recognize
(26:00):
that this person they hurt me, they're not about to
say I am sorry, I recognize I hurt you, and
coming to the place of realizing they're actually enjoying the pain.
Speaker 2 (26:11):
Yeah, And you have to learn how to heal or
move on without the apology as well.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
And then you're in control, yes, over.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Who you allow in your space exactly.
Speaker 3 (26:28):
Exactly, and very often in my circles, these are people
who believe time heals, and these are people who believe
that after that whole drama, I can come back and
pick up from where we left and continue using you.
Speaker 1 (26:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
And actually for more than forty years I've allowed that,
So me, I mean a point, what is true?
Speaker 2 (26:58):
What I found very difficult, and boundaries is like boundaries
with family.
Speaker 3 (27:03):
Yes, because those are the most difficult, I think.
Speaker 2 (27:06):
Yes. Also because like social it's almost like you're having
you you know how you're feeling, Yes, but then what's
expected socially is different, so you battle, you know, you
battle with that. How have you managed to have healthy
boundaries within a family context? I know now you're you're
(27:30):
working on it.
Speaker 3 (27:31):
Yeah, constantly, Yes, because it's boundaries constantly shift and so
we constantly have to shift with them. Yeah. And now
I'm a grandmother yes.
Speaker 2 (27:44):
Congratulations, thank you.
Speaker 3 (27:47):
So then in my grandmotherhood I have to be grandmother
with boundaries. Yeah. Then then I'm an in law.
Speaker 7 (27:59):
Oh so those and those are don't think there are,
because society creates certain permissions for in.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
Laws to treat you in a way that is not
necessarily dignifying. But there you speak, dare you say anything?
So I'm gonna I'll use you at your level of usability.
And if you did not know how to set that
(28:31):
boundary when you're very young in your twenties, you're in
your sixties and you realize I don't have a boundary.
Speaker 2 (28:38):
Yes, yes, I learned that that's very true. Because also
the woman who allows herself to be used the most
is the good one always, and the one who doesn't
and has healthy boundaries. Yes, difficult, she's called difficult, and
(28:58):
she's called bad.
Speaker 3 (28:59):
Yes, a bad woman.
Speaker 2 (29:00):
This woman is distractive, but she is actually prioritizing her peace,
her well being, which allows her to then be a
good person. Is the relationship.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
But the relationship could throw her out by the way,
So she wants the danger of the relationship ejecting, Yes,
because we have a multifaceted relationship in our marriage culture. Yes,
at the beginning, you think I'm getting married to so
and so. What you got married to a clan.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
That now thinks that you have to change your entire
identity culture to theirs. To there, you didn't exist, there
was nothing.
Speaker 3 (29:46):
No, you came like an empty board and now they're
going to write history into you. But also they have
certain expectations which at so many levels, it's at user level. Yeah, yeah,
shall I tell you something. There's something that I call
(30:12):
send a slave so we could educate you. Then we
send you to go and work in America. Then you
get to America, you know, did a harambe We sent you,
and you arrive there and Adele, you realize you have
(30:32):
to hold down three jobs to send money home to survive.
You're living on black coffee. You never have the Chai
whoopie that you had at home. You cannot eat organic
food because it's too expensive. You're eating McDonald's. You're a
(30:53):
canyon living on McDonald's. There's no devi. Yeah, you're just
living at the lowest level of existence, just so that
people at home can have money sent back to them.
You are sent a slave. You are the slave we
sent out to make sure that our life here is
(31:14):
going a particular way. Now, that very often happens with
a woman who gets married into a particular home and
you suddenly find that you are stripped of your rights
to make particular choices. We just expect you to cook
a big galley because you came here to cook. And
(31:35):
in the Lord of the word for coming to get
married is coming to cook. So now you better be cooking.
And the size of the gully can be so big. Yes,
so for me even just bringing it down to that
galley level and the setting of the boundary that I
had over that. I remember arriving and this young woman
(31:57):
grew up in Parklands. I don't know how to cook
that it gally four five people. Yes, I know how
to cook the galley for maybe eight maximum, but now
when it comes to this funeral size to galleon, yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
And the point is getting the pomongers.
Speaker 3 (32:15):
And so the women said, okay, so now that the
water has boiled, we want you to cook the galley.
And I'm looking at these women and I'm like, this
is that thing. It's village bullies. And they've descended on me.
And I said, no, I have no problem. I'll cook
the galley. And I took my khaki and I said,
and you will go and seeagata Unga. The woman said,
(32:38):
what do you mean, I don't know how to drive
a car. I said, okay, I'll go and siagat the
wunga and you cook the galley. I know something that
you don't know, and you know something that I don't know.
For me, it was possible for me to have that
conversation because I was a high school teacher when I
got married, so I was already equipped. But very many
women get bullied to the point where they cannot even speak.
(33:02):
So the boundary that I set on that day is,
if you ask me to do something, you better know
everything that I know how to do. Then only then
a week equal. But here we can be equal where
I know somethings and you know something and now we
can work together. So those are some of the boundaries
(33:25):
I set at that level. Yeah, but these boundaries they
just kept shifting on me. With my own family members.
Speaker 2 (33:35):
It's never enough, like the takers once more, it's never enough.
Speaker 3 (33:39):
Yeah, it's never enough. It's never enough.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
Yeah, And I don't know. What I also feel like
is why women shouldn't participate. I don't think you should
have to negotiate your respect by like giving something or
your dignity or your That's not something I completely.
Speaker 3 (33:54):
Agreed, No, it shouldn't. But then once I've been cornered,
then I have to bring something for my own arsenal yes,
and say okay, god drive yeah you go, well, go
go get that because you, I mean, you brought in
a huge one for me, a huge guy. Yeah, bring
in a huge. I mean, what have we gonna do? Yes?
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (34:19):
Now what now?
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Okay? So boundary is very important, and I love the
openness that it's never ending. You constantly and I am
still even catching myself like where I'm just like, it
seems like they're no boundaries here. What's happening? You know?
You also talk about toxic people and how you irritate them? Yes,
(34:42):
what does that mean? And why why is it so
important that you speak to our community about that?
Speaker 3 (34:49):
This is why this is important. I I am actually
constantly on the trajectory of growth, growing, studying the right things,
going into the right places, relating with the right people
so that I can learn and grow. And part of
(35:11):
growth is constantly for me. A value that I've established
for my life is to be dignifying to people and
to treat people with dignity and to grow people in
a way that is dignifying. Right, there are people that
(35:31):
you cannot do that with rates, and it is just
like that's just what it is, is what it is.
There are people who are committed to the opposite, committed
to being toxic, committed to being nasty, committed to the
contracting people. So even as I step out and I say,
(35:56):
my life is about having transformational relationship and transforming people
in ways that add value to me and transforms me
so that we are growing like this conversation, a conversation
that grows you and grows me. Conversations like this. The
people who just cannot have this kind of conversation because
(36:17):
they're just thinking, who does she think she is? She's
too dark, she's too fat? Why does she who does
she think she thinks? She knows all that? She better
not come in and try and tell me any of that. Yes,
and there are people who would rather pull somebody down
rather than list somebody up. So just recently occurred to me,
(36:43):
I've been knowing that there are people who are pigs.
They like to be Yeah, let me just say it
straight out. They like to be in the mark and
wallowing it. And they like to invite you to join them.
And one of you will not be happy with the dirt.
One of you will want to get up and go
(37:05):
and shower, clean up, but the other one really had fun.
They're constantly inviting you to a fight, into some gassy chaloes,
into into beating down somebody. Yes, So the question you
asked me is what about these toxic people. Yes, and
(37:28):
what do you do with them? What was the question?
How you how I irritate them?
Speaker 2 (37:33):
And how you know?
Speaker 3 (37:35):
It recently occurred to me, even in my silence around
some people, they are so irritated they'll create a thing
about me, something to go and say. You know, there's
there's always saying uh lee equal the colorco talk. You
(37:57):
only speak about the elephant when the elephant is facing
the other direction. They're not there. I turned out to
be an elephant people there. I have toxic people in
my life who say the most negative things about me,
but they never say it to my answer, they can yeah,
(38:22):
And so it occurred to me that I irritate toxic people.
Let me give you astounding example. I hired one of
my relatives needs somebody to look after her, and in December,
(38:47):
I looked at that situation and this is not a
nice person. This is a toxic person. I know, I
know it. But somebody who was a needer as a
need whether they are toxic there what toxic that it
is there? So I said, okay, fine, I'm going to
hire somebody to look after her and look after her house,
(39:08):
making just make sure that she has a pleasant environment,
and I went ahead did this. I said, this this person,
I hire them for you. Oh, thank you so much. Oh,
I really appreciate that I had this person. This person
was doing all the work in the house.
Speaker 2 (39:26):
Do you know.
Speaker 3 (39:26):
Eventually, there's two weeks ago, the message that she's been
griping with and rolling other griperson is why am I
paying that person so much? So I said, okay, fine,
what's the problem. What's the problem you have with this person?
(39:47):
Are you I? It's the problem that she's not working. Well, no, no, no,
the level of what she's doing doesn't deserve the level
of salary. I said, But I'm very happy she is
trying to go to college. I'm very happy to pay
her that. I'm no, no, no, Actually, our problem is
(40:09):
only with the salary. Okay, that is toxic. And so
the way that I turned up for this person irritated
her and all the people around her. And I was
able to come to the place where I recognize that
actually I irritate toxic people, and that's a place of
(40:34):
to arrive at and be at peace with, because prior
to that, I thought it was my job to keep
enrolling them on. My goodness, Yes, and like.
Speaker 2 (40:46):
You will save them and change them.
Speaker 3 (40:48):
And you yeah yeah, and to relax and be happy
and enjoy the goodness that I'm doing for them. No, no, no, no, no.
Turns out it's not my job. I'm not, you know.
And it turns out it's not my job to get
them to love me. I did that. They'll try to
(41:10):
get them to love me, to get them to honor me,
to get them to be empathetic to me. I realized
that girl that I had hired for them for that
person was now being abused, and I moved her from
that situation two weeks ago. I moved her from that situation.
(41:36):
I irritate them.
Speaker 2 (41:38):
I think it's authenticity, you know, Yes, I think that's
very ritating. And it's something you mentioned that I think
it's worth just mentioning before we move to your next
passion points that you have to share with our community. Gossip.
I started realizing the more soft work I do, I
(42:01):
don't like how I feel when.
Speaker 3 (42:04):
I gossip, the more self what you.
Speaker 2 (42:07):
Do, and I just I kind of there's a judgments
with gossip that I'm comfortable for me.
Speaker 3 (42:16):
Oh good, it's like well done?
Speaker 2 (42:19):
What makes me decide?
Speaker 3 (42:21):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (42:22):
What someone else should be doing with it right, Yes,
but I think it also you can think you're bonding
over gossip, but you don't know each other and you
can't bond, can you. So when you include that in
the toxic space, I think it's valid. We never do.
I think it's very important that you did that.
Speaker 3 (42:43):
Absolutely, absolutely, yeah, and just allow people who are toxic.
I'm not junior, Holy Spirit, I've not been sent to
you know so many times I think I am. But
just the interruption to realize it wasn't my job to
repair these people, to just let them be, and first
(43:05):
of all, don't overrelate with these people, but take yourself
away from it and anybody that you have that is hurting,
just remove the people that are hurting. Sound up for
people that are hurting.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
Yes, yeah, So that the other passion point is what
I'm calling them that you had was sitting at a table.
Can I guess what you meant to before this?
Speaker 3 (43:29):
Guess and it might be the whole story and knowing knew, like,
let's hear it. Is it that we need to.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Make sure we're sitting at tables that are having conversations
that affect us. Is that what you mean by sitting
at a table.
Speaker 3 (43:48):
When conversations that conversations that affect us but also that
affect our values.
Speaker 2 (43:57):
Yes, okay, so break it down for us.
Speaker 3 (43:59):
Yes, too much of how you and I have been invited.
And it's interesting that you're my daughter, and you and
I are still sitting in the same spaces where the
table is not necessarily open for us at the social level,
(44:22):
at the religious level, the community level, family level, tables
where because Adele is this young woman, her voice is
not expected to have any impact on the trajectory of conversations. Yeah,
(44:48):
and so we are apologetic even when we want to
get to the table and you start your sentenced with sorry, yes,
may I, may I, may I just add sorry, may
I just add God?
Speaker 2 (45:04):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (45:04):
Yeah, so we have and then we speak in the
past tense. I just wanted to.
Speaker 2 (45:10):
Say, yes, oh my god, we do that.
Speaker 3 (45:14):
Yes, we do that because so much power is is
we have thrown away so much power. Yeah, we've thrown
away so much power in these environments that you speak
from a place of apology. Yeah, so I'm sorry, uncle, Sorry,
(45:38):
I may I interget at that time you're the only
intellectual person on that particular topic, but you're saying I
just wanted to add that when it comes to filmmaking,
that we need to have a person who is qualified
to do the filming. You're apologize and the only Adell
(46:01):
News the rest of the family don't even know, but
you apologize for your interjection. So sitting at the table
has to do with so much retrospection and coming building
yourself first. We have so much work to do in
building our powers that then allow us to sit at
(46:24):
the table with grace and power. So it doesn't mean
that when I'm at the table, I lack grace or
that I take away people's dignity or people's spaces. No,
it means that as a woman, to recognize that there
is a table to start with, to then go and
(46:48):
take a seat, or to create a seat and your
own table, create a seat, have my own table, and
tell people, Okay, fine, that was a powerful conversation. Next
week I have a table. Like now you've invited me
to this table, and I'm sitting in this studio with
you because you created your table. This is Adele's table.
(47:12):
And when you create the table to say come a pond,
come alongside, Yes, there's a table here, let us sit here.
At the table and let us speak about these things.
Let's let us build people. Yeah, how did you.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Now we did that? I don't know if it's fear
or if it's socialization that makes us do this. Sorry
may I, or even sorry may I is even on
the good side, because sometimes you'll sit then be silent
throughout right.
Speaker 3 (47:48):
How did you.
Speaker 2 (47:51):
Own your seat at the table?
Speaker 3 (47:52):
How did I own my seat at the table with tables?
I'm constantly looking at the tables anyway.
Speaker 2 (47:59):
Yeah, back, do you remember a moment where you actually
spoke up for yourself in a conversation in that was
going to affect you or that you could add value
to Yes, even though maybe you were the only woman. Yeah,
or maybe it was a time where people didn't want
to your moment.
Speaker 3 (48:20):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah. In my line of work,
because I did a lot of social development consultancy, and
it meant running meetings and facilitating conferences, and sometimes when
it was a scientific conference, as the only woman in
the room, I'm the facilitated but I'm the only woman
(48:40):
in the room. And that in my thirties, my early
thirties allowed me to stand in a position where my
voice was the voice guiding the meeting. I may not
understand what it is you're speaking about, but I'm the
only one equipped to guide the meeting. And during that work,
(49:04):
I remember the first time I was hired by Feeder
to go and run a conference, I realized that I
was going into the study of law around human rights
and general rights. And one day it occurred to me,
why am I trying to be an expert where there's
(49:26):
a room full of experts and my job and I
did adele, I think this is the clincher for this conversation.
My job is to be authentic and to have the
skills to guide the conversation. So to learn that I
am not to be the expert in everything, but I'm
(49:50):
to be the expert in the thing that I have
taken on, and my job is to guide people to
have powerful conversations. Yes, so with that I was able
to take a seat and too when walking into a
room if they're discussing. I remember the first time I
(50:11):
facilitated a workshop on window pest and going into the
room and saying, I'll be your facilitator for this five
days and I don't know what rinder pest is. Yeah,
just to authentically be in that space of its okay,
and I am committed to running a powerful workshop. And
(50:33):
at the end of this workshop, we shall have achieved
all our objectives. That is my commitment to you. Yeah. Yeah,
I don't know what Rinda pest is and I don't
know if I will know by Friday, but.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
You will have an impactful workshop.
Speaker 3 (50:49):
It will be impactful, yes, and I will be able
to guide it in an impactful way. Just to be
able to know and to be at peace with I
am the expert in this area, and it's okay to
work alongside other experts that gave me a seat at
the table.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
So it still come back to like knowledge of self. Yes, yes,
because then you're like, that's why I'm in this room,
that's why, Yes, I'm going to go to that table.
That's why I'm going to speak up. Yes, this is
the part I'm an expert.
Speaker 3 (51:23):
Yes, exactly. And then in the space of also speaking up,
two observe and see the people in my life, in
my sphere of influence who don't have a seat at
the table, and to raise my voice and invite them
(51:47):
not only to the table, but also push off the
toxic people who don't want this person to be at
the table so that their voice can also be heard,
because they have an important voice. Yes.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
The last point that really caught my attention when it
comes to what you want to share with our community
has to do with the boy child, and would I
call it their socialization or yes? What is this burning
point you have?
Speaker 3 (52:22):
Okay, I'm so glad you picked it. That's one of
the things you wanted me to speak about. So, glad adele,
look at this scenario. There's a twelve year old girl, yeah,
and a fifteen year old boy right. Their mother is
(52:45):
going on a trip for a week, and their father
doesn't live here because he works somewhere else. So she's
leaving these people in the house. Who is she instructing
around food?
Speaker 2 (53:00):
The twelve year old the twelve year old girl.
Speaker 3 (53:04):
She's instructing the twelve year old girl, who's she living with?
The money for the milk, the GUIDERI and all the dinners.
It's this twelve year old girl. Yes, So society has
come into to a place where we have a blindness
towards this boy child, and this boy child, we are
(53:29):
actually not giving him adequate capacity and skills to be
a leader. But at the end, of the day. We
say he must be the leader because he stands up
to be, because he stands up to be, not because
he is more skilled than.
Speaker 2 (53:49):
His Yeah he doesn't have the skills.
Speaker 3 (53:52):
Yeah, he doesn't have the skills, but because he's a boy.
So this little girl who has run this boy's life,
she's not being given that job. Yes, And the sad
the sad thing about it is that it doesn't work
for society. It doesn't work for that boy. He's not
(54:13):
as equipped as he would be. Secondly, when he when
you have this little boy and a little girl and
you have a doll, who do you give the doll
to the girl? To the girl? And you give the
boy a football? He's not going to be a father?
(54:38):
What's going on? He's you know what's going on here?
What's going on? Is he not going to be a father?
Speaker 2 (54:46):
Can she not like football?
Speaker 3 (54:48):
Can she not like seotball? Or you give him a car?
But can she not drive? Why is she being told?
And so you by age five, your daughter sat saying
I'll marry a man who has a car. But you're thinking,
but why don't you have a car. Yes, then you
buy him an aeroplane and he says, I'll be a pilot,
(55:09):
But why why, why, why why doesn't she have a
toy aeroplane?
Speaker 4 (55:14):
And she can say I want to be a pilot,
she can say that, or she can say I want
to run a whole airl like I'm going to have
a fleet of plas Yes, so her aspirations, she has
to push through.
Speaker 3 (55:28):
Life to get to where she gets eventually, and through
so much so. This boy also when he leaves the
house and he's fifteen years old, and he's got a
twin sister and she's fifteen, what time do you want
that girl in the house? And what time do you
(55:48):
want that in the house? You want her like by five,
and you want her in the house before it's dark.
You want her in the house before it's dark.
Speaker 2 (55:56):
And him, is there even a time you just want
when he comes?
Speaker 3 (56:00):
He comes, when he comes to us, and will have
already served dinner. And yes, this fifteen year old sister right,
And he is not being protected from the sexual predators
that are raping him, even the neighbors, his friend's father
(56:21):
is raping him. This boy, he is fifteen years old.
But the shield and protection that his sister is getting,
she's not getting and then the predators know it, so
they very quickly. He's high on BANGI. He is high
on every narcotics that's available right his sister even smoking
(56:44):
a cigarette. Women smoke cigarettes in hotel bathrooms because society
has set such high standards for women's behavior, moral behavior,
social behavior that you and I can sit here just
start smoking online online smoking as we're having this conversation.
(57:04):
We can't. Could be a couple of men having you
know they and they're smoking even smoking live alone bangye
or you know. So at the end of the day,
what's happening is there's such a blindness to the protection
of that boy child that we are allowing him to
(57:26):
be brought up by wolves because society is telling him
so many things. But society is protecting your daughter. They
will come home and tell you, Mama, kids, I is
so kid at the shops, and I don't like the
(57:47):
young women she's hanging out with. Those are not good
young women. Yeah, even a complete stranger. I say, now, Nannie,
oh no, I'm your neighbor, and I say that that
she curos like inisipend hours. Yes, nobody will tell you
a thing about your son until you realize this guy
is so high, you're sending him to rehab because society
(58:09):
has very low standards to hold him up with. So
I want to finish off Adele by saying this. One time,
my husband and I were doing a gender study and
I think we were hired he was hired by I
think it was Defeat, And we were looking at certain
secondary schools and we went to the schools to look
(58:34):
at the dormitories boarding schools, to look at the dormitories
for boys, dormitories for girls. And I'll give you an
example of what a typical dormitory in our regular schools,
not the high class. These are regular schools. The dormitory
if you've never been, and Adele, I'm going to challenge
(58:54):
you to go and see it and to actually have
a segment just on this conversation. We went. We looked
at the dormitory for the boys, broken windows, those stom
fence around it, the right next to the playing fields.
We said, okay, where the bed sheets? Where the mattresses?
(59:14):
I think, okay, they have mattresses, but they just use
blankets because they their bed sheets get stolen as soon
as they come to from one and then sold they're
either selling them what so they just slip on the
mattress they covered and said, this dome is smelling. You
can smell it from outside. Not only is the dom
(59:37):
smelling from the bathrooms, but they're smelling from the ways
the beds are. It's failed you smell the filth of
these boys. Do the shower. Wow, there's the showers there. Okay,
is there somebody who is in here to ensure that
the boys shower. No, it's up to them. We looked
(01:00:01):
at this situation and they called, the windows are broken.
It was just so bad. So we said, okay, fine,
let's look at the girl's door, the girl's dormitory. There
was a gate and a wall with Ninnie's spikes on top.
At the gate there you start seeing the flowers as
(01:00:24):
you're walking through the gate to this place. These girls,
there's a matron who looks after them, takes care of
these girls. We asked, okay, so why is there a
difference because these are girls. Again, the thing is is
(01:00:47):
because they said to be the all children our mama.
The girls there's a metron. They have to shower ee day.
Their beds are made crisp, with bed sheets white and
(01:01:08):
the bed is folded back, and they have a basin
their basin. They said, what's the basin under the bed.
It's put under the bed. It's right under the same
like military precision all. That's the basin that they use
to shower. So every girl has a basin that she
uses to shower. She has a towel that's dripped on
(01:01:31):
her bed. We said, okay, so when these children come
to school, what does it look like. They say, we
have a list for things the girls must come with
underwhere they must bring a certain number. They have to
have a certain number of slips, they have to have
(01:01:52):
a numbers, a certain number of bed sheets because these
are washed regularly. They have to have this that there's
such a big list. The boys had a very short list.
We said, why the only thing that these girls need
to have that's different from these boys is a brand pads,
sanitary towels, and a bra. That's the only thing that
(01:02:17):
should be different. Why aren't these boys asked to bring
the same number? Yes, and why don't they have a
matron or a patron or somebody who looks after them
in the same way. Those are the standards that are
very different. There's a huge neglect. It's been systematized, and
(01:02:37):
it's breaking down our society in terms of the quality
and even can you imagine that trauma this person grows
up with? This is somebody will.
Speaker 2 (01:02:47):
Beat up the world, they say, I think a lot
of the issues we have in terms of like violence
with sexual violence and all of these issues that we're
and that that's done two women, right, Yes, it's because
we have been the monsters who perpetuates this.
Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Who are men?
Speaker 2 (01:03:12):
We have been grooming them, yes, and growing these monsters.
Speaker 3 (01:03:16):
Yes, and now we're.
Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
Shocked that this is happening. But I'm like, it could
only end up like we were preparing for this actually exactly,
because that's that socialization, that breakdown is what's happening. And
I also feel like even for the girls, that extremness
doesn't even allow for individuality. Right, So it's almost like
(01:03:38):
you if you're like what you're saying, we can't smoke
or we can if you're you have to do this
and only this, right, there has to be care, yes,
across the board, and there has to be room for
the individual. Yes, who are you as a pond? Who
are you as opone? Who are you as Jane? Who
(01:03:58):
are you as Johns to be exactly? And so as
we wrap the episode, what is one thing you can
leave the woman watching this with? What's one message you
want to leave The.
Speaker 3 (01:04:12):
Key message for me is don't stagnate. Do not stagnate.
Grow yourself, constantly seek higher values. Educate your mind, educate
your spirit, educate your keep replenishing your soul and your
(01:04:32):
spirit in every way that is possible, and grow yourself.
Don't stagnate. People are either going backwards or going forward,
and you can't get to a place where you say
you're wholesome, umefica. You just constantly grow yourself and plug
onto people who are going in the same direction as you. Yeah,
(01:04:56):
and it's okay to let people go. It's okay. Not
every is going to climb the mountain. Yeah, yeah, just
climb the mountain with they who are climbing it.
Speaker 2 (01:05:06):
Thank you so much for making time to cover the show.
I'm so happy to finally have you here. And I
think just by you being you, you are inspiring so
many of us. I watch you sometimes when you're with kids,
and I'm just like, oh, she's making so much sense.
This is she's like our collective friend and mother right,
(01:05:30):
and so I hope you enjoyed this episode. If you
check out the description will not only share ways in
which you can come into contact with the incredible work
that Apondly does, but I might put in some of
my favorite episodes from her and Kids who is her
daughter's show online? Make sure you like this episode, share
(01:05:52):
it and all the maneless and almost manalist women and
your like and I have say a big thank you
for you being here with us throughout the second season,
being part of the community. We love and appreciate you.
And the final thank you has got to go out
to Polished Hopes who have been our partner a poni
have been admiring our spets. The first thing you asked
(01:06:14):
for was like, yeah, this was my favorite despite like
my favorite polished homes have made all of this possible.
So we're very painful for them for believing in us
and pushali Ara for season two
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