October 24, 2025 • 63 mins
This week on For Mannerless Women, Adelle sits down with Veronica, founder of The Ova Circle and a certified menopause workplace coach, to unpack what it really means to thrive through menopause. Veronica opens up about her personal journey, from confusing symptoms and dismissive doctors to discovering perimenopause, finding her voice, and building a thriving community for women going through the same. She breaks down the gaps in healthcare, the power of holistic approaches, and why it’s time for workplaces to become menopause-friendly. Together, Adelle and Veronica explore:
🔗 Connect with The Ova Circle & Veronica:
🌐 Join the Legally Clueless Africa community:
- The difference between menopause and perimenopause.
- How shame and silence isolate women in this phase.
- Building a toolkit that actually supports you, from lifestyle changes to medical options.
- Why African women’s menopause stories must be centered in our data and media.
- Refusing to disappear, aging loudly, proudly, and mannerlessly.
🔗 Connect with The Ova Circle & Veronica:
- Veronica Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/veromamaverushka
- OVA Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/the.ova.circle
- OVA Website: https://theovacircle.com
- OVA Whatsapp Community: https://whatsapp.com/channel/0029Vb0GAS96RGJA5U6qLr1b -
- OVA LinkedIN: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-ova-circle/
- OVA Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/5YSmenYKtxbQPe85ahDViC?si=8P5OtlmfST6F5Od_wzIc8w
- OVA YouTube: https://youtube.com/@TheOvaCircle?si=YMTHuQKMSLQ1Z8g8
- Menopause Guidelines: Australian Menopause Society Guidelines (referenced in the episode): https://www.menopause.org.au/health-info
🌐 Join the Legally Clueless Africa community:
- Newsletter: www.legallycluelessafrica.com
- Instagram: www.instagram.com/legallycluelessafrica/
- TikTok: www.tiktok.com/@legallycluelessafrica
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to for maneralist women. I'm your host to Devi
on Younger and this is a space that is committed
to naturing a new generation of shame free women who
are ready to meet their best selves. In this episode,
we unpack menopause with Veronica. She's the founder of the
Over Circle and she's also a certified menopause workplace coach.
(00:28):
Thank you, thank you, thank you for making time to
be with us here.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Thanks for having me on our show. I feel like
the first time we met was hair related, and now
I have no hair, But like, right, because in the
other hatch you run as a business. Yes, yes, in
the wigs space, and it's.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
So wonderful that then we meet with you doing something
that is helping so many women. That's called reinvention, babe. Yeah, yes,
it's right. Yeah, And we're going to get into it later.
But I know the work you're doing now is fueled
by your own personal journey when it comes to menopause
(01:10):
and distigmatizing it and creating community for women who are
going through the symptoms of menopause. Right, what was that
personal journey to get to what you do now?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
All right?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
My journey started out quite challenging. Okay, when I was
in the menopause transition. Okay, right, I don't know if
we need to define the menopause transition because you have menopause,
which is a single day, yes, the day that marks
twelve months without a period. Yeah. Most people think menopause
(01:45):
is the whole, entire phase. Menopause is just a single day,
and the period leading up to menopause is perimenopause.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah. Yeah, and that's the phase I'm in now.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Okay, So perimenopause is really hormonally chaotic, which is marked
by many symptoms. Right, So my challenge was basically like
I did not know what to expect in the perimenopause
transition or called the menopause transition.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Because I never talked about it and we didn't know
it existed.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, we were prepared for, like what to expect when
you're expecting. Yeah, we're prepared for what to expect before menstruation.
You know, you're told about the physical changes to expect
how menstruation manifests, like the site sighting of blood, et cetera,
et cetera.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
And then it also comes with that fear of.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Now you can get project yeah right, and which we
kind of which cont we need to challenge, Yeah, because
there's also stigma around that. But then when it comes
to menopause perimenopause, like there's crickets.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
I was never prepared for menopause perimenopause. So during my
own personal transition, I started getting all these symptoms that
I could not understand.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Right, let me just run into it, right, what were
you feeling? What did it start with? It started with insomnia.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
I couldn't understand how come I started.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I cannot sleep?
Speaker 1 (03:11):
And I also had tinatus for about nine to twelve months.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
And what if that tinatus is bringing in your ears?
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Right?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
So every door I went to a number of E
and T specialists and.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
I was just sold to live with it right pretty much,
and one actually even gave me like benzos to help
me sleep, because with tinatus you cannot sleep.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
It really impacts the quality of your life. Right. And
aside from that, I did not change my diet.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Or my exercise routine, but I noticed that I was
not fitting in my clothes quite well.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yeah, and it really like.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
When your body starts to change, it really also changes
how you show up in the world. Fatigue, So I
thought it was insomnia causing the fatigue. There was joint pain, yeah, migraine,
It's like okay, So basically I felt like I was
breaking right, And then one symptom that I really also
(04:12):
struggled with was like the mood swings. Right, there's something
known let as periline and puzzle chaine ang rage. Yeah, right,
at that time, I did not know that's what that's
what it's called, because again, remember we.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Didn't know, didn't talk about it, and not talk about it.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
So a lot of mood disturbances, like you know, just
wake up and have a low mood and you don't
really understand Okay, why right, what's going on?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
What is Yeah? So during during.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
This phase, at the time I was at say forty
and throughout forty between forty and forty two, Yeah, there
was all these symptoms in and out, in and out,
up and down, up and down.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I was just not feeling like myself.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
You know, that is a symptom of the menopaustran just
not feeling like yourself. But how many of us can
go to a doctor and say, I'm just sort of
feeling like my second is a migrat What do you
mean you're not feeling like yourself, right anyway, So and
then one sign that I should that should have put
(05:17):
off alarm bells in my head was an irregular period.
I'd always been regular, but all of a sudden, from
a twenty day cycle, it was thirty six days, twenty
four days, twenty one days. At one point, I felt like,
am my owners on my period.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
For pretty day?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Like what is mainais? Like?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (05:34):
So of course Google University told me that, oh I
could be stressed.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Nothing nothing to do with what you say. But I
was like, Okay, I don't feel stressed, like tress I
need to stress.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Okay, maybe it's my business, maybe stuff like that. Maybe
it's COVID that's stressing me and stuff like that. So
you know, for every excuse except menopause, right anyway, where
am I aware?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Am I thing? Is also just feeling like something's wrong
with me alone, not that this is a shared experience.
So I'm just trying to summarize this.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
But Adele, I went to quite a number of doctors,
but really none of the doctors that I so pinpointed
that I could be going through perimenopause when it was
hormonally influenced, right, And so I said Okay, it's maybe
if I fixed the mood disturbances, I could fix everything else.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Maybe I'll sleep better.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
So I went to see a therapist, right, and this
is where everything pretty much turned for me. And not
because she she it's just something she said, maybe by
mistake that put switched on switched on the ball.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
So I did not go to any normal therapists. Let
me tell you, I went to a hypnotherapist. Okay, got
my father. My issues was so bad beyond that, I
didn't hypnose it to be able to fix.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
I don't know how many you've ever been there, but
you're like, it's not CIB, it's CIP. Anyway, we did
not even really get to the hypnosis part because so
during the initial consultation she pissed me off. I told
you about age the rage. She really pissed me off,
(07:25):
and I was actually walking out of the session and
she told me, pheroh, I don't think your issue really
has to do with hypnosis. You really don't need hypnosis.
First of all, I think you're drinking a lot of
alcohol to cope with your symptoms, and I think you
(07:47):
might be perimenopausal.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
And I was like, what the hell is that, but
it stuck. Yeah, and then I'm somebody who really does
a lot of research.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
So that's when I I went down the rabbit hole
peri menopause, started reading, started looking, searching up information about
what is this periman Imagine at forty forty one is
the first.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Time I'm hearing the word perry Man. Yeah, yeah, and
so it opened.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Up a new word that I never knew existed. Yeah,
that I did not know. This is a phase to
be expected, and these symptoms are the symptoms that come
with this phase.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I was gonna ask how I feel seeing your SYMPTI yeah,
I was so happy. I felt.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
I felt, you know, you feel like this could be it.
And if this is it, it means that I can
fix it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah, right, it has a name. It has a name.
It has a name.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
It's not an I know, there's a thin line between pathology,
fight and hunting and actually feeling seen or feeling validated.
So anyway, pretty much that's where I was, and that's
when I discovered this could be the menopause transition or
I am in perimenopause. Right, Yeah, And that's pretty much
(09:04):
the long and short about how I discovered. Yeah, how now,
that's led me to create the community that is now
known as the Overcircle, which is a community of women
and all of us are in the menopausal transition and
basically in that space, it's about supporting each other, educating
(09:25):
each other, awareness, and it's just a space where women
in the transition can feel seen, understood, less alone, and
less alone. Yeah, because I really felt so alone in
my journey and I was like, I can't be alone,
this can't be it. So I was like, I'm going
to put up a post on Instagram and open up
(09:47):
a WhatsApp community so that women can join and we
can try and figure this all out together.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Adele. Within two months, the WhatsApp community was full. Deal
is full.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
And that really a firmed and validated my experience and
also which led me now.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
To where I am today. Yeah, I wanted to take
take me. You're scrolling in. First you're going to see
these doctors, Yeah, where you just live with your symbo,
just treating the symptoms because we're normally getting out right
right right. But then you do your research and you say, hey,
(10:26):
this is what this is, sounds like what I'm experiencing.
Do you go back to to see any doctors and
how do they react if you do, because I want
to I want to stay unpack like the gaps in
healthcare when it comes to women going through the transition
if they're perimenopausal or in menopause. Yeah, I feel like
(10:49):
asking you what doctor? Yeah you know because yeah, actually
question who would you go see? Like who who? Okay, so.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
No, I didn't go back to see a doctor because
I am.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
It's about the lack of information.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
So that's a gap, the lack of awareness, like just
being totally unprepared, so you don't even know where to start, Like, okay,
if I'm going to see an obgy n, I'm not
even really equipped with the right knowledge to be able
to advocate for myself when I go sell it doctor.
(11:30):
That's space. That space I think it's this or when
I go see a doctor. These are the questions I
was asking myself and be told these are normal things.
Just your mother went through it and just familiar y yeah,
just power through. Yeah for the nunspeaker, power through and
stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
So there's that gap what doctor, you know what?
Speaker 1 (11:54):
And also like within the community, and I have come
to meet some amazing doctors who really are passionate about
the menopausal care space in the work I'm doing with
the Overcircle. So even in engaging with these doctors, we
have some in the community as well who can answer
(12:15):
some of the members questions and give them answers, and
of course not to give individual consultative advice, but just
general speak. Right, And I've come to discover that in
medical school they only get maybe three four hours of
training on menopause. Yeah, so that therein is already a huge,
(12:39):
huge gap.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
And you know what, every woman who lives long enough.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Is going to expla menopause or go through the menopause transition.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
So why is that gap there?
Speaker 1 (12:49):
So if it's actually make me so angry and so
sad at the same time that you reach a certain
phase of your life and you've forgotten, forgotten, like you're
discarded yet, like you're no longer important once your reproductive
years are over, and which is terrible because it's pissed
(13:09):
me off.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
You're like, yeah, pissed me off.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Every sings like a daily dose, like a supplement, because
it should be like.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Such a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
The more life you get to see is a beautiful thing, right,
And so we should be approaching women aging or going
through different phases, right as something good like how can
we make sure that you're comfortable throughout not only when
we can extract from you via daiies or like what
(13:43):
I mean, Yeah, we just want to make sure that
you can still thrive even through the changes that come
with womanhood. That what you've said just now is one
of our missions over circle, Right, you really like put
it packaged pretty well. Yeah, you just want to ensure
(14:03):
that women have the support that you need at every.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Phase of their life.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, can we impact just a bit more the gaps
in healthcare? Right? So they spend like three hours talking
about medicals right in medical school? Right, what other issues
do you see in terms of like how how doctor is?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Okay? Yeah, what other issues you see?
Speaker 1 (14:32):
I'm going to talk from my personal experience, right, What
I say does not speak for everybody.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
This is my own personal experience which is very valid validated.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
So misinformation there's that as well, because now the world
seems to have discovered that, Okay, this is a space
where we can make money off women. Yeah, So there's
a lot of of fear mongering and misinformation when it
comes to disseminating information about menopause and menopausal care, even
(15:10):
when it comes to hormonal therapy. So there's a lot
of fear mongering and you know fear cells, right, yeah,
so it's reaching. Let me give you one example. There's
or and a lot of social media influences, some who
are even doctors who say things that are not evidence backed. Yeah,
they're not according to the menopause guidelines. And then if
(15:33):
you question it, let me tell you, I have read
the guidelines from from from come from cover to cover, right, so,
and if you question them, they say what they're saying
is exists in data free zones, which I feel is
also a disservice to women because I'm for research from
(15:54):
evidence backed, because we also do not want to do
a disservice to women, right, So for example, selling fear
in this let's say, let me just give you some
some stuff. Some things I've heard like if you don't
take hormonotherapy, you cannot thrive through the menopause transition. But
that's not true. That's not true. Or if you don't
(16:15):
take if you don't replace your estrogen or estradile, then
you're gonna get dementia or a cardiovascular disease.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
And that's not true.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Yeah, I think women we need to know that we
can still thrive through menopause with that first of all,
over medicalizing it. Yeah, And second of all, we need
to realize that menopause is not all about our symptoms. Right.
A lot of the speed online is about symptoms, symptoms, symptoms, symptoms,
(16:47):
and I know that's where I started, and that's where
my journey started, and I accept that.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
But then the thing is, aside from symptoms, what else
is there to menopause? Right? Yeah, one thing you talk
about I love this.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
In earlier episodes, we talked to a doctor you've done
work with in your community, doctor Kenya, and she lists
various options and she always starts with nutrition fitsiness.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Right.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
And something you are passionate about is holistic approaches to right. Right.
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Because a lot of people, when we only get sold
to the symptoms, we treat it as we do other
conditions that have symptoms, which means medicine. So when you
say holistic, what what do you mean by Okay, when
I talk about a holistic approach, First of all, I
love doctor Kenya. Yeah, that is and that's one of
(17:44):
the reasons that we partnered with her over right, when
we talk about when I talk about holistic, your menopausal
symptoms don't exist in a vacuum, right. First of all,
every woman will experience menopause different. That's one thing I
need to point out. Yeah, and your symptoms don't exist
(18:04):
on its own in a vacuum. It's a whole ecosystem, right, Yeah,
And many factors actually attribute to how mild or severe
your symptoms are, yeah, such as your lifestyle such as
it could be your genetics, it could also be your
state of mind, your level of stress, also your economic position,
(18:28):
level of literacy. Yeah, women who've been abused or traumatized
in the past actually have more severe symptoms, for example.
So it's a whole ecosystem with many factors that determine
how you experience your menopausal symptoms. So it's not like
one thing, one size, or it's just not you just
(18:50):
just don't have symptoms. And not every woman will experience
severe symptoms. Some women will go through the transition with
very mild symptoms.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Right.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
So there's really really a myroad of factors that attribute
to how you experience the transition. That's what we also
need to educate, right, right, and I hear you, which
is why it's so dangerous to go online. Not only
are you sharing information that has no backing of datail
(19:21):
or set.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
But to share one one? Yeah? And then so what
is the goal of sharing one?
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Is it financial?
Speaker 1 (19:30):
So most of the time I always tell I always
tell women even in the community, like, if someone has
something to sell you, then this stribu should already like.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
To tell you about something I've heard.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Again, in the misinformation landscape, they're telling you you're going
to get dementia if you don't take.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Do a bit more research.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
And is that according to the guidelines, because again it's.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Not, It is not right.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
There's many many reasons why hormonotherapy is a great great
great great great Yeah great too? Is it a tool
a great option for women, like for vasomotors, symptos which
are like hot flashes, for women who have a predisposition
to osteoporosis.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
And others.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Right, I'm not going to list them all, yeah, in
case I get them wrong. I don't want to say
I spread misinformation myself. Right.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
However, there's other indications that are not according to the
divers Yeah, yeah, And it's and knowledge is power but
also when you're gathering the knowledge, I think it's important
to practice discernment. I'm learning that as well, because yes,
we're in this age where information is at our fingertips. Yeah,
(20:46):
the age of technology.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Fifteen seconds, someone is selling you something you don't realize
it's a self Yeah. So I'm also trying to tell
myself practice discernment.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
When you receive this information, tear it apart and be like, Okay,
does this make sense for me?
Speaker 1 (21:03):
No, I don't think so. I'm not comfortable with this
or this. I need to ask someone else, like.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Is this true.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
I think that's also a tool, Like I need to
go into the spacement. Right, there's something else you talk
about that. When I heard it first from you, I
had to be like, oh, I am actually quite ashamed
that I've never actually thought about these two things, menopause
and the workplace, because I think my head was so
(21:30):
caught up in menstruation and.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
The workplace, right, yes, right, like or if child's care
in the workplace.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Like you know, how do you?
Speaker 1 (21:41):
So I was just like, actually, I've never actually thought
of menopause and the workplace. So these two words exist
in a sentence, which is very important. For your very
very important why why do you Obviously we know like
we should be considerate, but maybe you can break down
the wire a bit more, right, right, Okay, so early
(22:03):
on in my transition, now, so that was when I
was forty forty one.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Okay, I'm not forty seven.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
My experience right now in perimenopause is nothing compared to
what it was when I did not have information.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
And right now, with the information, I feel.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
More empowered and I am aware of what options I
have in case I'm really struggling with a particular symptom.
And so it hit me back then now as I
started figuring out how to thrive in this phase. So
I looked at lifetime modifications. I looked at exercise, I
(22:43):
looked at my nutrition, and I looked at things that
were no longer serving me.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
So stress management techniques. I'm getting to your workplace question by.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
The no, I feel it. So stress management techniques.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yeah, stress, it's just not good, right, It's not good
for many reasons that like I won't get into right now.
I looked at my sleep and I listened to what
the therapist said.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
I looked at my alcohol. Yeah, and it's true.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
I was using that daily glass or two of wine
as a way of coping with my symptoms. But you
know what, that same alcohol was disrupting my sleep. It
was making me a most stressed person.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
It was.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
It was like the inflammation. I take a glass three
SIPs of wine and my face was hot, so it
triggered my heart flashes.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
But I was like, power is through, this is I'm coping,
this is helping me.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
I just think it's helping me sleep. So when it
comes to lifestyle modifications, I was like, Okay, some things
just start to go right now. It's no value because
it was affecting the quality of my life. So sometimes
you need to do a lifestyle audit. Yeah, and really
really asked yourself the questions is this really helping you
(24:06):
right now? I always say, Okay, I might be living
a sober life now, but if you see me drinking
when I hit menopause and maybe the hormone the hormone
profile is more stable, don't They ask not the same process.
But this is not to say like I'm not judging
people who choose to have any alcohol or anything. This
is my personal decision and it helped me immensely. The
(24:30):
whole flash has literally disappeared, the inflammation, the joint pain.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
I'm sleeping like a baby.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Also, I was relying a lot on the wine and
energy drinks during the day, so like it was just.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yeah, it was just And also they would come with
more problems. There you using them to assist this, but
they might be coming and creating.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Actually it's been it's being researched that during this phase
a lot of women actually end up being physiological physiologically
dependent on substances, and substance abuse actually goes goes up.
Look at that is because of pain, it's coping mechanisms. Anyway,
So I'm not the same person I was when I
(25:11):
was forty two forty one. With lifestyle and interventions, I
did my own personal audit. I removed things that no
longer serve me. I was like, you know, I got
to take control and anyway, which led me to start wondering,
like women I don't have an eight to five to five.
I started wondering and reflecting, like, Okay, how do women
(25:33):
who don't have this information and have to show up
in the workplace, how do they call every day? You've
not slept maybe for four or five nights in a
row how and you have to perform. You have to perform.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
They still have. I keep even saying something.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
They say they have KPIs in the workplace and the
ones who are partner up have kps in the bedroom,
in the kitchen.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Is that is that allowed on this? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (26:00):
That feeds the environment of stress as well, right, you know.
So that's what I really started reflecting on, and I
just felt.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Like, wow, it really really must be must be hard.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
And I was like, if I did not know, I
can bet you that many women in this society are
not aware or prepared for menopause, and they do not
know what they can do within their control right now
to help upset the symptoms or just to empower them,
you know, just knowing I told you when I knew
(26:37):
what was going on, and then when I knew what
I could do, it really empowered me.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Like I'm not like helpless.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah, like I have that choice to be able to
choose and say, Okay, I'm not gonna drink anymore. Let
me see yes what all right? I work in a
very stressful environment. How can I inculcate like stress management techniques?
So we talk about like like going for a walk.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
During the work day, yeah, or something just like you know,
like like learn how to do like mindful.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
They don't have to be thirty minute long, can be
five minute mind mindfulness.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
And stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
So anyway, so that's when I started thinking about women
in the workplace. So I started off by getting certified
to coach women in the workplace. So right now I'm
a CPD certified Menopause Workplace coach.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Wow, congratulations, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
And it's something that is really passion driven again from
my own personal experience. Yeah, so it's just totally fueled
by passion. And what I do together with my team
at OVA is we reach out to corporates, reach out
to HR and online managers or people who can who
(27:54):
are decision makers, and we send out our proposal and say,
women in your organization need this information.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
You know why adel In.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
This year that we're in twenty twenty five, one billion
women globally are going to be in menopause, yeah, or
going through the menopause transition. Women in their forties are
really quite at the peak of their careers. And also,
like I'd say, the compelling cell we have for corporates
is you know what you want to retain your best skill.
(28:27):
You say you want your team to remain productive, it
really costs you more to train new skills, to retain
the skill that you have and also support the women
in your organization.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
I'm really talking about you, you know them, Yes, selfish
organization exactly works for you, exactly, and you know what
A lot of of course, initially there's a lot of pushback.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Yeah, corporates will not listen.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
I was like, no, they're going to have to listen eventually,
because remember when we started out with like breastfeeding rooms,
and now we do have some companies that actually support.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Women and they have breastfeeding rooms and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Why can we not also make our organizations menopause friendly
workplaces And it doesn't really need to take a lot. Yeah,
what would it look like for a workplace? Okay, I'll
just mentioned some some some things that it's something off
off the top of my head.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Right. For one, we've already covered that.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
The benefit of awareness and education, right, just yeah, just
your staff knowing that this is what you've done for them,
also for them as women, knowing this is what to expect.
You're already you're already like ninety already won just in knowing, right,
and then when we talk about menopause friendly workplaces, it
(29:56):
also involves talking to your managers and your HR because
even them knowing the relation between the employees and the
people that manage the team, Yeah, there's a it helps
them with understanding and the sensitivity exactly. Yeah, it doesn't
mean that we're all about our homemones and we cannot
(30:18):
do anything and we're we're we are being controlled by
our almos. No, I want to be very careful about that, Yeah,
because we don't want to get to a place where
women are sidelined from promotions because of menopause. Yeah. Right,
That's why I'm really also careful with the over medicalization
because I do not we do not want to to
(30:39):
dig ourselves in the in because we're just like, oh
my goodness, No, no, we want to empower women with
information and we want the workplaces to support those women
right with.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
In in that in that space. Right. So what so
with your line managers or your HR being able.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
To understand if possible you can look at hybrid or
flexi hours, Yeah, not every day. It's not every day
that you feel awful, because if we've educated you about
your options, you're gonna start, You're okay, So you move
from a place where you're just simply surviving symptoms a
place where you're thriving. Let me tell you, it feels
great when you are no level of friving, and friving
(31:22):
can involve anything. It can involve lifestyle, it can involve
medical options, it can involve all of those control Yeah,
you need a toolkit.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah, the toolkit is not like it doesn't have to
be complicated, right.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yeah, it's just about again awareness and knowing what your
options are, right I think.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
And also like even having little.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Fans for the women or a cooler place for women
who have hot flashes, because hot flashes they're no joke.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
For women who really really struggle with them.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Right. So yeah, so a little just little tweaks here
and there, and also just the feeling of feeling support it.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yeah, it's a much day.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Like if you're in a space that sees you, yeah,
beyond you know what you do in the company, it's
function numbers.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
They see you and they care, like are you okay
that they care you? Even just feel like you can
thrive in that.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
You're going to thrive and employees feel supported, they will thrive,
they will thrive, right, And so I want us to
go to I know you've talked a bit about you're
not where you are when you were getting into your
foot where you are?
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Now, what does your toolkits look like today? Okay, where
do I start? Okay?
Speaker 1 (32:45):
So my toolkit today? I think I pretty much already
said it. But let me just take you.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Let me take me through your day or your the
interventions or interventions. Yeah, okay, so alcohol is out.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Yeah, I thought sadly how to But also now when
it had to go, I'm like, okay, I should have
stopped earlier.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
I'm like, it's not impossible here. Okay. So yeah, so
now like my only regrets is like I didn't stop earlier.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Now I sort of thinking, like all those years in
my thirties, like anyway, so there's that.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah, I look now I've looked more at my nutrition. Yeah,
in terms of trying to eat more bad balance.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
So we work with an amazing nutritionist and over where
I have learned so much in terms of like a
balance plate, getting my macrozine meaning my carbs, my protein,
and my vegetables, making sure I get enough fiber by
the way, you know, what I used to supplement a
lot when I was trying to fix my symptoms. Right now,
(33:49):
I should show you what was in my supplement drawer.
It had hundreds of supplements. But you know what's interesting.
Right now, I'm really like down to maybe two supplements. Wow,
I used to take everything I used to take. Let
me let me just name something I used to be
like on Gaba and Tony try try trip to five.
It was.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
I was taking I was in a.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Barbery, like I was trying everything. I had a whole
supplement stack. I was on neck.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Why not zinc? Anyway, So now with so I looked
at my.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Nutrition and so now I know supplements are helpful for
many especially where you're deficient.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
But again we have all these.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
All these companies that want to sell you a supplement
for menopause, and I'm really like, okay, again.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
That's where.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Like you need to really invest a lot of money
in supplements. So I really also whittled down on what
supplements I'm taking. So I do an Omega three and
magnesium own, right, So that's pretty much it.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Yeah, And then I also so supplement like should in
the world. It's supplementing, So the best option.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Is to get tested your nutrition, what is on your plate,
like helping me maximize right where you're getting certain things from.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Right. Although I did do some blood work.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
My vitamin D was though, so I also do a
vitamin D supplement, which apparently I've come to learn.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
That a lot of people are deficient.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Take no. I got tested and I was okay, But
it's also because of where I stay, Like it's also lifestyle.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
So a lot of us, like will drive to the
office and.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
They'll sit in the office even on a sunny days
in office, right, And I intentionally because of my doctor,
my my levels were.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Bad, which was like, you need to be outside, so
do you get a lot of sun.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Exposure when you're working and stuff like yeah, yeah, so yeah,
so that's that's nutrition. So I looked at my nutrition
switched up. I was doing a lot of process foods,
like a lot. I mean not to say process foods
are bad. Something I've also learned is a lot of
foods a process like yeah, even did you know the
(36:10):
like what a process food is or because a lot
of people think like yogurt is not a process food,
like you get Actually I was told look at it.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
By one of the guests this season Coachruzan.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
She says, you want your plate to have things as
close to what they look like in the farm.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Yeah, yes, right, and not anything altered.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Right. So I was like, that's such a beautiful way
to think about it, because then when you say something
like yoga, then you start thinking, yeah, actually, yeah, gone
through something. It's gone through some process. But not all
process food is bad. Let me just say bad because
really with food is food, there's really no bad or
good foods, right, so not all should be like blacklisted
(36:54):
because like like Greek yogurt is really really good yeah,
and like yoga proprioti and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
So yeah, So I looked at my plate and I
just tried to tweaking yell here there.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
I was like, okay, so the bacon has to go
maybe while, and it's not like totally bad. It's just
trying to like come just yeah, just to figure out
what like how I can do better my plate can
look better nutritionally, right, yeah, just looking at food at
(37:30):
a plate, like what it can what it gives me nutritionally,
you know, food and veg which is nice and stuff
like that. So with nutrition, I've really learned together with
the nutrition is that over how to do better, how
to make better food choices, not that any food choices
are bad.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
I'm really trying to be careful here, but it's like
what what do I need now? And how much of water? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
in terms of nutrition.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
In terms of nutrition, yeah, fitness as well, because like
when we had our you.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Were on the treadmill. Yeah, and I have your social
media it's active.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Yeah, yeah, I'm.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Reactive, which is wonderful. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Yeah, fitness has been a big part of my life
and it continues to be.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yeah, what can I say? That's just it's it's a
did it help with it? Was it one of the
things in your toolkits like to help you navigate this transition? Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (38:29):
I think it's number one my in my toolbox. Fitness
is like really really number one, Like with I don't
know where i'd be without without my workouts. Yeah yeah,
So what I do is you know, strength training, cardio,
like come at least five five fife to six times
a week.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Just being active yeah yeah, so being active and moving
and moving what hell?
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Stress is like press man managed because.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
There's a workplace and then there's a business and I
know you're an entrepreneur, yes, right, So how what are
the things you started doing to like manage your stress better?
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Oh? I just say don't sweat the small stuff.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Honestly, like a lot of I have a friend who says,
like she finds the word stress management.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
I don't know what where she uses very like cliche, like, Okay,
she always hears stress management. She's like, what the hell
is there? Like when you're stressed, it's really stress managing.
Like yeah, Like if you're stressed because of.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
A circumstance, let's say it's a financial circumstances, is there?
Speaker 2 (39:41):
What do you mean stress management?
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Like?
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Maybe? Maybe for me? How gonna say?
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Like when I say don't sweat the small stuff, it
can sound very dissociative, but sometimes I'm like, I'm not
I don't have my coping mechanism. Yeah, so sometimes I'm
just like, you know what, I'm not gonna sweat it.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
And that works for me. I'm like, you know what.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
It's not gonna kill me us today. You know, you
know what has been a game changer for me, which
I tell you I started earlier and I used to
listen to all these podcasts about it.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
It's such a small thing that is journaling.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Oh yeah, And I had read some research that was
done that said during the pandemic, obviously globally, our stress
levels were communally high.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Yeah, we're losing jaws, were losing their clothes, like people
were dying. You didn't know, do I have it? Do
I not see in this constant state of anxiety?
Speaker 3 (40:39):
Right?
Speaker 1 (40:39):
And they said the thing that they saw made the
most impact was journaling. They were like, there were all
of these other things people doing, but journally, do you right?
And so yeah, And so I started, like I used
to end up, but I was very like I stopped
like a journal one day ten weeks, I don't And
so I started doing like every morning, like I shut
(41:00):
it in and oh my god, I don't know what
the science is. But for me, I started when I
was in like your friend is saying, in the middle
of the stressing something, and all of a sudden I
could and the app I used prompts you right, And
all of a sudden I could see life outside of
(41:21):
this stressful issue. Like all of a sudden, it wasn't
the only thing that consumed or was the definition of
my life at the time.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
I could remember, Oh, someone gave me this nice to
say this questionion we love or I felt seen by
this person, and all of a sudden, this thing.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Yes, it's stressful, Yes it's important, but on the plate
of what's going on in my life.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
That also it's just one thing. Yeah, also the other thing.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Right.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
I don't know why I didn't start, like journaling. How
long have you done it?
Speaker 1 (41:57):
I think I'm on the second month, but I saw
a shift within seven days.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
It's so weird. I'm gonna try then, I'm gonna try journally. Yeah,
I'm gonna try. Like I know, we put resources. The
app I use is called gratitude. I'll called gratitude. Yeah.
So you do an electronic journal? Yeah, oh yeah, and
it prompts you. I think that's what it does. Because
if I'm left to journal about whatever, I'm only going to.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Talk about the stressful thing, right right, But if you
prompt me and say, tell me about something that made
you happy yesterday, and I pause and I think, and
I'm like, oh, yeah, actually I.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Saw this and it made me so and it expands
my perspective. So I don't know.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Okay, So channeling is yes, it's not you know, it's
just things like the therapist who told me about yes
I could take you out of here. Yeah, it sticks
with me, and I start doing and I and I
noticed the difference. Oh my, that's why I like that
you shared that as well. So because stress is, as
you say, it is a baseline for so many other
(43:02):
chronic illnesses, especially for women. Right, And that's why I'm
just like, I've got to get the stress things right. Yeah, right, okay,
so the exercise helps the stress.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
And I always take time to be grateful, Like every night,
I'm like before I go to bed. You know, sometimes
the world is moving so fast that sometimes you're not
even grateful that for your health, You're like, I have
I have the ability. Okay, maybe you're financially impacted, but
then if you look at it like being able, I
(43:35):
have my faculties of thinking I can get up, I
can walk. That means I can do something about That's
so it's a blessing like I'm able to do something
about this situation. So and also having like even like
your mental health in order, because it's there's so much
happening exactly right, So there's that gratitude. You know.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
I also do a bit of crazy things here and.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
There, like I love ice bathing, so I feel like,
you know, I started getting anxiety with in perimenopause, and
I limit I was one of those people who never
understood anxiety until so I would not understand being anxious.
(44:24):
And I was like, you know, I was on the internet.
I was like the iceba thing. But for me it
works maybe because it's able to slow down my breathing
and it's something I do, like at least twice a week. Yeah,
because for me, it's for me, Yes, I feel it's
it's a game change, right, I got deep breathing exercises
really work for a lot of people in terms of
(44:47):
you know, stress management as well.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Do you do deep breathings? And I was going to
say with anxiety, why that ice pots would also work.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
It's like you're also told you can hold ice, like
if you're going through and because I actually battle anxiety,
so like if you go and just hold either ice
or something cold. I don't know the science behind it,
but it like it almost brings you back to this
to awareness maybe because so I would see how I mean,
(45:17):
I wouldn't get into the ice bag, but I'm harding
as working for you, So I'm a love of cold showers,
like every morning for some reason, it helps me regulate
my breething. So that's the first thing I do in
the morning is regulate my breething with If I can't
really like prepare my eyes bath, I'll just do like
a cold shower.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
That's yeah, I just swear by it. So yeah, it's
really helped a lot.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
I just love how open you are about your own
personal journey and that you didn't only fix it for yourself,
but even what you're doing with the workplace is like, hey,
but if I battled it and I'm not a nine
to five, I.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
Want to help those other women as well.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
And that's commendable to women who are watching this and
want to be part of your community. Want to join
over circle and we've heard the WhatsApp group got full.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Again, they're another one.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Like before I I I answer that, I want to
also say that apart from the lifestyle modifications that I've mentioned,
what I've done that works for me.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
The reason I could make.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
These choices was because I am aware, I'm educated and
know about them. Let me just talk a bit about
there's a there's something known as virginal atrophy so what
what is that? It is?
Speaker 2 (46:41):
So as your estrogen.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
Declines, you start experiencing like a lot of vaginal dryness,
and sometimes it gets really bad for some women that
even their labya may.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Their minora dry up.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
Even We've had a conversation with one of the doctors
of the OVER and it disappears like you know, like
you know, you go back to pre puberty where you
don't have your laby or minor and it's a very
uncomfortable situation. So what I noticed was like I was
waking up a lot at night to go and pee,
like it would totally disrupt my sleep. And we've talked
(47:18):
about how everything feeds on everything else, right sleep, you
don't sleep well. So I was waking up all the
time to pee, all the time to pee, and in
the OVER community, I was having a conversation with the
doctor and that's when I discovered there's vaginal estrogen creed.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Yes, and it's let me tell you that's it.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
I don't know, I don't know how it worked, but
it worked. And you see, just knowing there's that and
knowing removes it in the shame. So now, yeah, like
it's so wrong. Something is not wrong. With me, yes,
like and you see like with there's a lot of beuties,
a lot of pea, a lot of dryness. So also
I've in my toolbox there's I'm not started monotherapy yet.
(48:01):
I always tell everybody like, if my symptoms are so severe,
like my hot flashes are so severe that I can't
sleep and then it impacts the quality of my life,
definitely open to it.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
But like vaginal estrogen.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Cream works locally, it's not like systemic, So that's also
in my toolbox, Like you see this, So it's about
also being open to whatever options. But you can only
know what your options are if you know what to expect.
So even when you go to a doctor, you'd be like,
I know, and you can advocate for yourself. It's about
(48:34):
it gives you power, that is it. Yeah, and did
your mom tell you? Did our mother's looks like what
to expect? I was just saying it in an earlier episode.
Would just see our hands with fans, and I used
to think, oh, there's so fancy. I know. Yeah, there's
just a lot of like the belly waiting and you're like, okay,
(48:54):
that's how.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
Middle aged woman.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
And I'm also challenging that perception because even when you
go online and you see what a middle aged woman
looks like, it's especially our yeah and certainly yeah yeah,
And I feel like then that bleeds into shame, and
if you're in that space as a woman, you then
(49:20):
don't even reach out to look for knowledge because you're
you go deeper into something's wrong with me, And I'm
not worthy to be in certain spaces.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
I'm not something's wrong with me, and getting you out
of there is harder. But like with this knowledge, yeah,
this I think can help and couples with agism.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
I think we had mentioned, like when we spoke on
the phone, there's a agism factor.
Speaker 2 (49:44):
We live in a very age of society. Yeah, we
have anti wrinkled creams. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:49):
Fact my little rebellion is I'm never using any anty.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
Anything created because it pisses me off.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
Yeah, Like and you see that's that's where the focus
is because and it's all there, well, it's esthetic, it's esthetic.
That So I completely agree with you because with age,
and it's like, how do we make you age aesthetically
pleasing instead of how do we ensure you're thriving and
you're healthy and your health span even if you're aging,
(50:19):
You're aging strongly. Yes, it's such a world yet, yeah,
being able to do the things that you love doing, okay,
really able to show up, which speaks to health and
not how do I have wrinkles or not? Like no?
Speaker 2 (50:32):
Yeah, right, So another thing I want.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
To touch on before I talk about where to find
yeah overcircle is centering the African woman's story and experience.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
That that gap really pissed me off. Again, it made
me so sad.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
Like when you talk about data and research, I think
it was like nineteen seventy.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
Yeah, the last research was done.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Because there's a recent one that's been done in Cambo
about women in the workplace and what they struggle with
most and how it affects their work, which I was
happy to see. But there's such a huge gap in
the African narrative around menopause and that really really was
(51:17):
one of the compelling factors that I said, we need
to put a community together where we can share stories
because a lot of the protocols we're getting is from.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
Where that is.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Yeah, yeah, and studies that have not been done with
people who look like us. Because for the younger generation,
we want narratives and stories from someone who looks like me.
I keep saying, I know oprah Is, for example, is
talking about menopause and stuff. It's amazing or halliar.
Speaker 2 (51:47):
But what we need to know is in.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
Africa it's a totally different experience because first of all,
the treatments they talk about costs a lot.
Speaker 2 (51:57):
Here. There's accessibility to treatments here that we can I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
We can talk about, okay, hormonal therapy for your symptoms,
but how many women an access hormonal therapy? Let's let's
be real, Yeah, let's be it would cost about ten
thousand shillings a month.
Speaker 2 (52:16):
Yeah, which also brings me to.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
Lobbying and policy making because insurance companies wehre's the camera
these step up right, Yeah, and the.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
People in spaces that can make you guys can make that.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
Decision, right because at ten twelve thousand shillings a month
on hormonal treatments, how many women can can afford that?
Speaker 2 (52:44):
Yeah? Yeah? And then when you look at supply of
hormone treatments.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
They're not You know what, I have women who I
know women or I know I know women or have
friends who are hormonal therapy. They need to buy their
medicine like seven months, eight months in advance. And and
why is that gup there? Yeah, yeah, it's it's the
system is not designed to support women.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
Right, Yeah, that's a certain stage. It's just is. And
I love that you we're so angry. Yeah, and I
love that you bring that up.
Speaker 1 (53:19):
Because even when we even if we say today as Africa,
as Kenya, we're going to figure out interventions that can
support women during you know, perimenopause into menopause, like at
all stages, right, Yeah, what data is driving what what
is informing interventions? And that's why localized data is so
(53:44):
important because the context is different, the culture is different.
That and remember what I said about how the ecosystem
on how you experience your symptoms is affected by.
Speaker 2 (53:57):
All of these things. Yes, right, there you go, but yeah,
there you go.
Speaker 1 (54:02):
So when we look at our context, which is it
is very different from the context of somebody in Europe
and in the West, right, and that is a major
major gap. Since we were talking about gaps, that's a
major gap. Yeah, So our stories, our experiences, our data.
(54:22):
I want to open Instagram and see somebody who looks
like me telling me about the menopaust right, and talking
about local locally sourced, interventionually, even if even if nutrition, Yeah,
because I don't want to read about things and I
have to start thinking, so what is this?
Speaker 2 (54:42):
What is what is wherever I find?
Speaker 1 (54:47):
You know, it needs to have local contexts, right, yeah,
which is why the work you're doing is important exactly.
So it brings me back to the community. Yeah, it's
the best space ever. I love, I love, I really
(55:08):
love being there, like, oh my god, yeah, I love
being there.
Speaker 2 (55:12):
Unfortunately it's it's full because WhatsApp has a limit.
Speaker 1 (55:16):
However, we do have a what's Up channel, but I'd
say the best place to start is our platform is
launching soon so we can expand and sign up more members.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
So we are at online is the overcircle dot com? Yeah,
so it's the overcircle dot com. So we are launching
very soon.
Speaker 1 (55:36):
So we have a landing page there which talks a
bit about over and you can sign up and wait
lists and we can be able to have this information
to all women and even men. Yeah right, because women,
we do not live in an island. We live in
a society with men. Yeah. So the that's supportant I
(55:57):
understand exactly exactly, because if you're really struggling through the transition.
It affects how you show up in the world, how
you show up in your relationships with your children and
with your partners as well, and you know what with
yourself that's the most important one, right Yeah, so and
so you guys, you there's the information.
Speaker 2 (56:17):
But I know you also have like talks or forums.
Speaker 1 (56:20):
So yeah, we have we do events where we do talks,
and we have some webinars up on our YouTube page,
YouTube channels, the Overcircle. We're on Spotify. We've gone a
few episodes of what to Expect. It's also called the Overcircle.
But the best place where all those links are is
(56:41):
our website, which is the Overcircle dot com.
Speaker 2 (56:45):
Yeah, thank you so much for the word. There are
any other questions.
Speaker 1 (56:53):
I feel like you're talking about gaps, and yes, that's
very important to highlight them. But I want to kind
of giving your flowers because you are feeling in at that.
Speaker 2 (57:04):
Thank you, you know.
Speaker 1 (57:05):
And as much as women will come to the to
the page and get all of the information, they also
get community. I think it's absolutely it's such a transformative thing,
right when you're going to whatever stage of womanhood, when
you know I'm not alone and I can ask before
I ask a doctor. You know we do that, right, Yeah,
(57:27):
I ask a doctor. You'll tell a friend like I
am feeling no, no, no no. Having that community is
so important, so you are feeling in.
Speaker 2 (57:37):
It's really just it's really important.
Speaker 1 (57:40):
Like yeah, community, you can't we cannot underestimate the value
of community.
Speaker 2 (57:45):
Yeah, yeah, so thank you? So mad are the thing
I wanted to say, yeah, but I can't.
Speaker 1 (57:52):
Remember, you know, brain fog. Oh yeah, yeah, I just remembered,
like and then also I want to ask you sometimes
I take over there. I want to ask you like, okay,
you've done conversations around menopausitia, well mainly the season.
Speaker 2 (58:06):
This is this season and before I think there was
a lot of fear because this.
Speaker 1 (58:14):
Oh my god, this is gonna happen, these symptoms, You've
got flashes or I won't sleep. But there's also what
I want to do is remove that that fear of
getting there, because a lot of people come to me
and say, like, Okay, when we see you or we
see your page and how you work out and you're
still strong and like yeah, like forty seven, they're like,
(58:37):
I no longer fear. Yeah, So I think also it's
I don't know if this is a question to you,
but it's more like, how do you feel because you're
growing old?
Speaker 2 (58:48):
Yeah, how do you feel?
Speaker 1 (58:49):
Are you prepared or you feel like you could you're
better prepared than the baby boomers?
Speaker 2 (58:55):
Yeah, no idea.
Speaker 1 (58:56):
For example, this is such a good question because when
I sat down with doctor Kenya, I did tell her
that the first we never ever used to even know
about perimenopause.
Speaker 2 (59:07):
We only knew menopads and right.
Speaker 1 (59:10):
We didn't know menopause is one day we thought it's
the entirety, right, and so it wasn't even cold menopause.
Speaker 2 (59:19):
It's like the big m And Yeah, when.
Speaker 1 (59:22):
I turned thirty, I was just feeling like this is
wonderful because I feel like twenties were the ghetto, like
chaotic nonsense. Yeah, and then thirty, I just started feeling
a lot more empowered and a lot more clear about
who I am as a woman. You start seeing all
the way society tries to like hold.
Speaker 2 (59:44):
You back and put your lives.
Speaker 1 (59:46):
Yeah. Yeah, and no, sooner have I started enjoying than
I start hearing about the right and.
Speaker 4 (59:53):
Yeah, like guys, see, I just wanted to I want
to enjoy the Yeah, can I enjoy this certain but
the more I'm having these conversations, the less fear.
Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
I don't even think there's fear anymore, because the conversation
has giving me knowledge, so I'm like, oh, okay, so
that's what i'd expect. And the second thing, it's giving
me options of like what's in my control. So I
really think when I start experiencing symptoms, if I do,
because there's also that right, yeah, I'm not going to panic,
(01:00:27):
I'll be like, okay, so that's what's happening.
Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
All right, where can I go? There's going to be
places like your community, right, So the fear has gone.
The fear, but there was fear because there was shame
and silence and no conversation, yeah, which also fears.
Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
I think else, I can ask you, since you've been
in media, what I may be wrong in my observation,
so you can feel free to correct me. But I
feel like maybe it's a societal thing of putting women
in boxes.
Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
But women, as we ate, they tend to disappear. Oh yeah,
so okay, so you said yes. So the challenge is
to all women out there is.
Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
Do not allow yourself to be made invisible, because that's
where the shame comes from right, you live loud and
proud in your menopause journey or whatever phase you are in. Yeah,
because that's what ageism does. That's what shaming a phase does.
When they tell you, okay, you're no longer reproductive, then
they want you to disappear and to go away and
(01:01:35):
to knit cardigans in the village. But you know, you
got to refuse to disappear. And that's what I I've
noticed because them, i'd say, the ones. There's some who've
talked about their menopause transition. But I still I'm like,
I did not know any of this, So I was like,
where was this information, you know when I was committed? Yes, right, yes,
(01:01:56):
So we need to be proud at whatever phase and
state we are. We can't just be showing like the
anti okay we can't, but we can show the anti
wrinkled creams and all that. But we need to show
that this is a phase that we can thrive in,
like and you arrive at proudly yeah, yeah, and that
you're valuable and your sad you are so valuable.
Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
Yeact.
Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
I think historically the women who were in the in
menopause were actually now the in cultures. They're the wise
ones that they would make decisions with men. Yeah, that's
how it was. We become wise. That's where those things
come from. Like I'm wise, are now than I ever
(01:02:40):
was in my twenties. Yeah, so yeah, we let's embrace that. Yeah,
that is such a wonderful like, refuse to be hidden. Yeah,
refuse that shame right, absolutely, live loudly.
Speaker 2 (01:02:54):
To the very end, goes silently into that. Good night, Davy. Yeah, so,
thank you so much for.
Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
The energy and the work that you're doing. I hope
you enjoyed this episode, And if you check the description,
you will find links on how you can connect with
the oversacle. Share it with all the women that you
know could benefit from being part of that community. And
if you like this episode, give it a like, share
it with all the manalists or almost mannerist women in
(01:03:25):
your life, and subscribe so that you do not miss
out on the next episode.
Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
Stay maneralous. Yes,
Welcome to for maneralist women. I'm your host to Devi
on Younger and this is a space that is committed
to naturing a new generation of shame free women who
are ready to meet their best selves. In this episode,
we unpack menopause with Veronica. She's the founder of the
Over Circle and she's also a certified menopause workplace coach.
(00:28):
Thank you, thank you, thank you for making time to
be with us here.
Speaker 2 (00:31):
Thanks for having me on our show. I feel like
the first time we met was hair related, and now
I have no hair, But like, right, because in the
other hatch you run as a business. Yes, yes, in
the wigs space, and it's.
Speaker 1 (00:48):
So wonderful that then we meet with you doing something
that is helping so many women. That's called reinvention, babe. Yeah, yes,
it's right. Yeah, And we're going to get into it later.
But I know the work you're doing now is fueled
by your own personal journey when it comes to menopause
(01:10):
and distigmatizing it and creating community for women who are
going through the symptoms of menopause. Right, what was that
personal journey to get to what you do now?
Speaker 2 (01:23):
All right?
Speaker 1 (01:23):
My journey started out quite challenging. Okay, when I was
in the menopause transition. Okay, right, I don't know if
we need to define the menopause transition because you have menopause,
which is a single day, yes, the day that marks
twelve months without a period. Yeah. Most people think menopause
(01:45):
is the whole, entire phase. Menopause is just a single day,
and the period leading up to menopause is perimenopause.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Yeah. Yeah, and that's the phase I'm in now.
Speaker 1 (01:53):
Okay, So perimenopause is really hormonally chaotic, which is marked
by many symptoms. Right, So my challenge was basically like
I did not know what to expect in the perimenopause
transition or called the menopause transition.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
Because I never talked about it and we didn't know
it existed.
Speaker 1 (02:13):
Yeah, we were prepared for, like what to expect when
you're expecting. Yeah, we're prepared for what to expect before menstruation.
You know, you're told about the physical changes to expect
how menstruation manifests, like the site sighting of blood, et cetera,
et cetera.
Speaker 2 (02:32):
And then it also comes with that fear of.
Speaker 1 (02:34):
Now you can get project yeah right, and which we
kind of which cont we need to challenge, Yeah, because
there's also stigma around that. But then when it comes
to menopause perimenopause, like there's crickets.
Speaker 2 (02:46):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
I was never prepared for menopause perimenopause. So during my
own personal transition, I started getting all these symptoms that
I could not understand.
Speaker 2 (02:58):
Right, let me just run into it, right, what were
you feeling? What did it start with? It started with insomnia.
Speaker 1 (03:05):
I couldn't understand how come I started.
Speaker 2 (03:09):
I cannot sleep?
Speaker 1 (03:11):
And I also had tinatus for about nine to twelve months.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
And what if that tinatus is bringing in your ears?
Speaker 1 (03:18):
Right?
Speaker 2 (03:19):
So every door I went to a number of E
and T specialists and.
Speaker 1 (03:26):
I was just sold to live with it right pretty much,
and one actually even gave me like benzos to help
me sleep, because with tinatus you cannot sleep.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
It really impacts the quality of your life. Right. And
aside from that, I did not change my diet.
Speaker 1 (03:43):
Or my exercise routine, but I noticed that I was
not fitting in my clothes quite well.
Speaker 2 (03:48):
Yeah, and it really like.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
When your body starts to change, it really also changes
how you show up in the world. Fatigue, So I
thought it was insomnia causing the fatigue. There was joint pain, yeah, migraine,
It's like okay, So basically I felt like I was
breaking right, And then one symptom that I really also
(04:12):
struggled with was like the mood swings. Right, there's something
known let as periline and puzzle chaine ang rage. Yeah, right,
at that time, I did not know that's what that's
what it's called, because again, remember we.
Speaker 2 (04:25):
Didn't know, didn't talk about it, and not talk about it.
Speaker 1 (04:28):
So a lot of mood disturbances, like you know, just
wake up and have a low mood and you don't
really understand Okay, why right, what's going on?
Speaker 2 (04:38):
What is Yeah? So during during.
Speaker 1 (04:41):
This phase, at the time I was at say forty
and throughout forty between forty and forty two, Yeah, there
was all these symptoms in and out, in and out,
up and down, up and down.
Speaker 2 (04:53):
I was just not feeling like myself.
Speaker 1 (04:55):
You know, that is a symptom of the menopaustran just
not feeling like yourself. But how many of us can
go to a doctor and say, I'm just sort of
feeling like my second is a migrat What do you
mean you're not feeling like yourself, right anyway, So and
then one sign that I should that should have put
(05:17):
off alarm bells in my head was an irregular period.
I'd always been regular, but all of a sudden, from
a twenty day cycle, it was thirty six days, twenty
four days, twenty one days. At one point, I felt like,
am my owners on my period.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
For pretty day?
Speaker 1 (05:32):
Like what is mainais? Like?
Speaker 2 (05:34):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (05:34):
So of course Google University told me that, oh I
could be stressed.
Speaker 2 (05:40):
Nothing nothing to do with what you say. But I
was like, Okay, I don't feel stressed, like tress I
need to stress.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Okay, maybe it's my business, maybe stuff like that. Maybe
it's COVID that's stressing me and stuff like that. So
you know, for every excuse except menopause, right anyway, where
am I aware?
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Am I thing? Is also just feeling like something's wrong
with me alone, not that this is a shared experience.
So I'm just trying to summarize this.
Speaker 1 (06:12):
But Adele, I went to quite a number of doctors,
but really none of the doctors that I so pinpointed
that I could be going through perimenopause when it was
hormonally influenced, right, And so I said Okay, it's maybe
if I fixed the mood disturbances, I could fix everything else.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
Maybe I'll sleep better.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
So I went to see a therapist, right, and this
is where everything pretty much turned for me. And not
because she she it's just something she said, maybe by
mistake that put switched on switched on the ball.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
So I did not go to any normal therapists. Let
me tell you, I went to a hypnotherapist. Okay, got
my father. My issues was so bad beyond that, I
didn't hypnose it to be able to fix.
Speaker 1 (07:02):
I don't know how many you've ever been there, but
you're like, it's not CIB, it's CIP. Anyway, we did
not even really get to the hypnosis part because so
during the initial consultation she pissed me off. I told
you about age the rage. She really pissed me off,
(07:25):
and I was actually walking out of the session and
she told me, pheroh, I don't think your issue really
has to do with hypnosis. You really don't need hypnosis.
First of all, I think you're drinking a lot of
alcohol to cope with your symptoms, and I think you
(07:47):
might be perimenopausal.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
And I was like, what the hell is that, but
it stuck. Yeah, and then I'm somebody who really does
a lot of research.
Speaker 1 (07:59):
So that's when I I went down the rabbit hole
peri menopause, started reading, started looking, searching up information about
what is this periman Imagine at forty forty one is
the first.
Speaker 2 (08:09):
Time I'm hearing the word perry Man. Yeah, yeah, and
so it opened.
Speaker 1 (08:16):
Up a new word that I never knew existed. Yeah,
that I did not know. This is a phase to
be expected, and these symptoms are the symptoms that come
with this phase.
Speaker 2 (08:26):
I was gonna ask how I feel seeing your SYMPTI yeah,
I was so happy. I felt.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
I felt, you know, you feel like this could be it.
And if this is it, it means that I can
fix it. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
Yeah, right, it has a name. It has a name.
It has a name.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
It's not an I know, there's a thin line between pathology,
fight and hunting and actually feeling seen or feeling validated.
So anyway, pretty much that's where I was, and that's
when I discovered this could be the menopause transition or
I am in perimenopause. Right, Yeah, And that's pretty much
(09:04):
the long and short about how I discovered. Yeah, how now,
that's led me to create the community that is now
known as the Overcircle, which is a community of women
and all of us are in the menopausal transition and
basically in that space, it's about supporting each other, educating
(09:25):
each other, awareness, and it's just a space where women
in the transition can feel seen, understood, less alone, and
less alone. Yeah, because I really felt so alone in
my journey and I was like, I can't be alone,
this can't be it. So I was like, I'm going
to put up a post on Instagram and open up
(09:47):
a WhatsApp community so that women can join and we
can try and figure this all out together.
Speaker 2 (09:53):
Adele. Within two months, the WhatsApp community was full. Deal
is full.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
And that really a firmed and validated my experience and
also which led me now.
Speaker 2 (10:05):
To where I am today. Yeah, I wanted to take
take me. You're scrolling in. First you're going to see
these doctors, Yeah, where you just live with your symbo,
just treating the symptoms because we're normally getting out right
right right. But then you do your research and you say, hey,
(10:26):
this is what this is, sounds like what I'm experiencing.
Do you go back to to see any doctors and
how do they react if you do, because I want
to I want to stay unpack like the gaps in
healthcare when it comes to women going through the transition
if they're perimenopausal or in menopause. Yeah, I feel like
(10:49):
asking you what doctor? Yeah you know because yeah, actually
question who would you go see? Like who who? Okay, so.
Speaker 1 (11:01):
No, I didn't go back to see a doctor because
I am.
Speaker 2 (11:06):
It's about the lack of information.
Speaker 1 (11:08):
So that's a gap, the lack of awareness, like just
being totally unprepared, so you don't even know where to start, Like, okay,
if I'm going to see an obgy n, I'm not
even really equipped with the right knowledge to be able
to advocate for myself when I go sell it doctor.
(11:30):
That's space. That space I think it's this or when
I go see a doctor. These are the questions I
was asking myself and be told these are normal things.
Just your mother went through it and just familiar y yeah,
just power through. Yeah for the nunspeaker, power through and
stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (11:51):
So there's that gap what doctor, you know what?
Speaker 1 (11:54):
And also like within the community, and I have come
to meet some amazing doctors who really are passionate about
the menopausal care space in the work I'm doing with
the Overcircle. So even in engaging with these doctors, we
have some in the community as well who can answer
(12:15):
some of the members questions and give them answers, and
of course not to give individual consultative advice, but just
general speak. Right, And I've come to discover that in
medical school they only get maybe three four hours of
training on menopause. Yeah, so that therein is already a huge,
(12:39):
huge gap.
Speaker 2 (12:39):
And you know what, every woman who lives long enough.
Speaker 1 (12:42):
Is going to expla menopause or go through the menopause transition.
Speaker 2 (12:46):
So why is that gap there?
Speaker 1 (12:49):
So if it's actually make me so angry and so
sad at the same time that you reach a certain
phase of your life and you've forgotten, forgotten, like you're
discarded yet, like you're no longer important once your reproductive
years are over, and which is terrible because it's pissed
(13:09):
me off.
Speaker 2 (13:11):
You're like, yeah, pissed me off.
Speaker 1 (13:15):
Every sings like a daily dose, like a supplement, because
it should be like.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
Such a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1 (13:21):
The more life you get to see is a beautiful thing, right,
And so we should be approaching women aging or going
through different phases, right as something good like how can
we make sure that you're comfortable throughout not only when
we can extract from you via daiies or like what
(13:43):
I mean, Yeah, we just want to make sure that
you can still thrive even through the changes that come
with womanhood. That what you've said just now is one
of our missions over circle, Right, you really like put
it packaged pretty well. Yeah, you just want to ensure
(14:03):
that women have the support that you need at every.
Speaker 2 (14:08):
Phase of their life.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
Yeah, can we impact just a bit more the gaps
in healthcare? Right? So they spend like three hours talking
about medicals right in medical school? Right, what other issues
do you see in terms of like how how doctor is?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Okay? Yeah, what other issues you see?
Speaker 1 (14:32):
I'm going to talk from my personal experience, right, What
I say does not speak for everybody.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
This is my own personal experience which is very valid validated.
Speaker 1 (14:43):
So misinformation there's that as well, because now the world
seems to have discovered that, Okay, this is a space
where we can make money off women. Yeah, So there's
a lot of of fear mongering and misinformation when it
comes to disseminating information about menopause and menopausal care, even
(15:10):
when it comes to hormonal therapy. So there's a lot
of fear mongering and you know fear cells, right, yeah,
so it's reaching. Let me give you one example. There's
or and a lot of social media influences, some who
are even doctors who say things that are not evidence backed. Yeah,
they're not according to the menopause guidelines. And then if
(15:33):
you question it, let me tell you, I have read
the guidelines from from from come from cover to cover, right, so,
and if you question them, they say what they're saying
is exists in data free zones, which I feel is
also a disservice to women because I'm for research from
(15:54):
evidence backed, because we also do not want to do
a disservice to women, right, So for example, selling fear
in this let's say, let me just give you some
some stuff. Some things I've heard like if you don't
take hormonotherapy, you cannot thrive through the menopause transition. But
that's not true. That's not true. Or if you don't
(16:15):
take if you don't replace your estrogen or estradile, then
you're gonna get dementia or a cardiovascular disease.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
And that's not true.
Speaker 1 (16:25):
Yeah, I think women we need to know that we
can still thrive through menopause with that first of all,
over medicalizing it. Yeah, And second of all, we need
to realize that menopause is not all about our symptoms. Right.
A lot of the speed online is about symptoms, symptoms, symptoms, symptoms,
(16:47):
and I know that's where I started, and that's where
my journey started, and I accept that.
Speaker 2 (16:52):
But then the thing is, aside from symptoms, what else
is there to menopause? Right? Yeah, one thing you talk
about I love this.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
In earlier episodes, we talked to a doctor you've done
work with in your community, doctor Kenya, and she lists
various options and she always starts with nutrition fitsiness.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Right.
Speaker 2 (17:16):
And something you are passionate about is holistic approaches to right. Right.
What do you mean by that?
Speaker 1 (17:24):
Because a lot of people, when we only get sold
to the symptoms, we treat it as we do other
conditions that have symptoms, which means medicine. So when you
say holistic, what what do you mean by Okay, when
I talk about a holistic approach, First of all, I
love doctor Kenya. Yeah, that is and that's one of
(17:44):
the reasons that we partnered with her over right, when
we talk about when I talk about holistic, your menopausal
symptoms don't exist in a vacuum, right. First of all,
every woman will experience menopause different. That's one thing I
need to point out. Yeah, and your symptoms don't exist
(18:04):
on its own in a vacuum. It's a whole ecosystem, right, Yeah,
And many factors actually attribute to how mild or severe
your symptoms are, yeah, such as your lifestyle such as
it could be your genetics, it could also be your
state of mind, your level of stress, also your economic position,
(18:28):
level of literacy. Yeah, women who've been abused or traumatized
in the past actually have more severe symptoms, for example.
So it's a whole ecosystem with many factors that determine
how you experience your menopausal symptoms. So it's not like
one thing, one size, or it's just not you just
(18:50):
just don't have symptoms. And not every woman will experience
severe symptoms. Some women will go through the transition with
very mild symptoms.
Speaker 2 (18:59):
Right.
Speaker 1 (19:00):
So there's really really a myroad of factors that attribute
to how you experience the transition. That's what we also
need to educate, right, right, and I hear you, which
is why it's so dangerous to go online. Not only
are you sharing information that has no backing of datail
(19:21):
or set.
Speaker 2 (19:22):
But to share one one? Yeah? And then so what
is the goal of sharing one?
Speaker 1 (19:28):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (19:29):
Is it financial?
Speaker 1 (19:30):
So most of the time I always tell I always
tell women even in the community, like, if someone has
something to sell you, then this stribu should already like.
Speaker 2 (19:41):
To tell you about something I've heard.
Speaker 1 (19:45):
Again, in the misinformation landscape, they're telling you you're going
to get dementia if you don't take.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Do a bit more research.
Speaker 1 (19:53):
And is that according to the guidelines, because again it's.
Speaker 2 (19:56):
Not, It is not right.
Speaker 1 (19:59):
There's many many reasons why hormonotherapy is a great great
great great great Yeah great too? Is it a tool
a great option for women, like for vasomotors, symptos which
are like hot flashes, for women who have a predisposition
to osteoporosis.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
And others.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Right, I'm not going to list them all, yeah, in
case I get them wrong. I don't want to say
I spread misinformation myself. Right.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
However, there's other indications that are not according to the
divers Yeah, yeah, And it's and knowledge is power but
also when you're gathering the knowledge, I think it's important
to practice discernment. I'm learning that as well, because yes,
we're in this age where information is at our fingertips. Yeah,
(20:46):
the age of technology.
Speaker 1 (20:48):
Fifteen seconds, someone is selling you something you don't realize
it's a self Yeah. So I'm also trying to tell
myself practice discernment.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
When you receive this information, tear it apart and be like, Okay,
does this make sense for me?
Speaker 1 (21:03):
No, I don't think so. I'm not comfortable with this
or this. I need to ask someone else, like.
Speaker 2 (21:07):
Is this true.
Speaker 1 (21:09):
I think that's also a tool, Like I need to
go into the spacement. Right, there's something else you talk
about that. When I heard it first from you, I
had to be like, oh, I am actually quite ashamed
that I've never actually thought about these two things, menopause
and the workplace, because I think my head was so
(21:30):
caught up in menstruation and.
Speaker 4 (21:33):
The workplace, right, yes, right, like or if child's care
in the workplace.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
Like you know, how do you?
Speaker 1 (21:41):
So I was just like, actually, I've never actually thought
of menopause and the workplace. So these two words exist
in a sentence, which is very important. For your very
very important why why do you Obviously we know like
we should be considerate, but maybe you can break down
the wire a bit more, right, right, Okay, so early
(22:03):
on in my transition, now, so that was when I
was forty forty one.
Speaker 2 (22:07):
Okay, I'm not forty seven.
Speaker 1 (22:10):
My experience right now in perimenopause is nothing compared to
what it was when I did not have information.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
And right now, with the information, I feel.
Speaker 1 (22:20):
More empowered and I am aware of what options I
have in case I'm really struggling with a particular symptom.
And so it hit me back then now as I
started figuring out how to thrive in this phase. So
I looked at lifetime modifications. I looked at exercise, I
(22:43):
looked at my nutrition, and I looked at things that
were no longer serving me.
Speaker 2 (22:48):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
So stress management techniques. I'm getting to your workplace question by.
Speaker 2 (22:54):
The no, I feel it. So stress management techniques.
Speaker 1 (22:58):
Yeah, stress, it's just not good, right, It's not good
for many reasons that like I won't get into right now.
I looked at my sleep and I listened to what
the therapist said.
Speaker 2 (23:12):
I looked at my alcohol. Yeah, and it's true.
Speaker 1 (23:14):
I was using that daily glass or two of wine
as a way of coping with my symptoms. But you
know what, that same alcohol was disrupting my sleep. It
was making me a most stressed person.
Speaker 2 (23:29):
It was.
Speaker 1 (23:31):
It was like the inflammation. I take a glass three
SIPs of wine and my face was hot, so it
triggered my heart flashes.
Speaker 2 (23:40):
But I was like, power is through, this is I'm coping,
this is helping me.
Speaker 1 (23:46):
I just think it's helping me sleep. So when it
comes to lifestyle modifications, I was like, Okay, some things
just start to go right now. It's no value because
it was affecting the quality of my life. So sometimes
you need to do a lifestyle audit. Yeah, and really
really asked yourself the questions is this really helping you
(24:06):
right now? I always say, Okay, I might be living
a sober life now, but if you see me drinking
when I hit menopause and maybe the hormone the hormone
profile is more stable, don't They ask not the same process.
But this is not to say like I'm not judging
people who choose to have any alcohol or anything. This
is my personal decision and it helped me immensely. The
(24:30):
whole flash has literally disappeared, the inflammation, the joint pain.
Speaker 2 (24:35):
I'm sleeping like a baby.
Speaker 1 (24:36):
Also, I was relying a lot on the wine and
energy drinks during the day, so like it was just.
Speaker 2 (24:43):
Yeah, it was just And also they would come with
more problems. There you using them to assist this, but
they might be coming and creating.
Speaker 1 (24:50):
Actually it's been it's being researched that during this phase
a lot of women actually end up being physiological physiologically
dependent on substances, and substance abuse actually goes goes up.
Look at that is because of pain, it's coping mechanisms. Anyway,
So I'm not the same person I was when I
(25:11):
was forty two forty one. With lifestyle and interventions, I
did my own personal audit. I removed things that no
longer serve me. I was like, you know, I got
to take control and anyway, which led me to start wondering,
like women I don't have an eight to five to five.
I started wondering and reflecting, like, Okay, how do women
(25:33):
who don't have this information and have to show up
in the workplace, how do they call every day? You've
not slept maybe for four or five nights in a
row how and you have to perform. You have to perform.
Speaker 2 (25:46):
They still have. I keep even saying something.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
They say they have KPIs in the workplace and the
ones who are partner up have kps in the bedroom,
in the kitchen.
Speaker 2 (25:56):
Is that is that allowed on this? Yeah?
Speaker 1 (26:00):
That feeds the environment of stress as well, right, you know.
So that's what I really started reflecting on, and I
just felt.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Like, wow, it really really must be must be hard.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
And I was like, if I did not know, I
can bet you that many women in this society are
not aware or prepared for menopause, and they do not
know what they can do within their control right now
to help upset the symptoms or just to empower them,
you know, just knowing I told you when I knew
(26:37):
what was going on, and then when I knew what
I could do, it really empowered me.
Speaker 2 (26:42):
Like I'm not like helpless.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
Yeah, like I have that choice to be able to
choose and say, Okay, I'm not gonna drink anymore. Let
me see yes what all right? I work in a
very stressful environment. How can I inculcate like stress management techniques?
So we talk about like like going for a walk.
Speaker 2 (27:04):
During the work day, yeah, or something just like you know,
like like learn how to do like mindful.
Speaker 1 (27:11):
They don't have to be thirty minute long, can be
five minute mind mindfulness.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
And stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (27:16):
So anyway, so that's when I started thinking about women
in the workplace. So I started off by getting certified
to coach women in the workplace. So right now I'm
a CPD certified Menopause Workplace coach.
Speaker 2 (27:31):
Wow, congratulations, thank you, thank you.
Speaker 1 (27:34):
And it's something that is really passion driven again from
my own personal experience. Yeah, so it's just totally fueled
by passion. And what I do together with my team
at OVA is we reach out to corporates, reach out
to HR and online managers or people who can who
(27:54):
are decision makers, and we send out our proposal and say,
women in your organization need this information.
Speaker 2 (28:04):
You know why adel In.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
This year that we're in twenty twenty five, one billion
women globally are going to be in menopause, yeah, or
going through the menopause transition. Women in their forties are
really quite at the peak of their careers. And also,
like I'd say, the compelling cell we have for corporates
is you know what you want to retain your best skill.
(28:27):
You say you want your team to remain productive, it
really costs you more to train new skills, to retain
the skill that you have and also support the women
in your organization.
Speaker 3 (28:41):
I'm really talking about you, you know them, Yes, selfish
organization exactly works for you, exactly, and you know what
A lot of of course, initially there's a lot of pushback.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Yeah, corporates will not listen.
Speaker 1 (28:55):
I was like, no, they're going to have to listen eventually,
because remember when we started out with like breastfeeding rooms,
and now we do have some companies that actually support.
Speaker 2 (29:07):
Women and they have breastfeeding rooms and stuff like that.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Why can we not also make our organizations menopause friendly
workplaces And it doesn't really need to take a lot. Yeah,
what would it look like for a workplace? Okay, I'll
just mentioned some some some things that it's something off
off the top of my head.
Speaker 2 (29:26):
Right. For one, we've already covered that.
Speaker 1 (29:30):
The benefit of awareness and education, right, just yeah, just
your staff knowing that this is what you've done for them,
also for them as women, knowing this is what to expect.
You're already you're already like ninety already won just in knowing, right,
and then when we talk about menopause friendly workplaces, it
(29:56):
also involves talking to your managers and your HR because
even them knowing the relation between the employees and the
people that manage the team, Yeah, there's a it helps
them with understanding and the sensitivity exactly. Yeah, it doesn't
mean that we're all about our homemones and we cannot
(30:18):
do anything and we're we're we are being controlled by
our almos. No, I want to be very careful about that, Yeah,
because we don't want to get to a place where
women are sidelined from promotions because of menopause. Yeah. Right,
That's why I'm really also careful with the over medicalization
because I do not we do not want to to
(30:39):
dig ourselves in the in because we're just like, oh
my goodness, No, no, we want to empower women with
information and we want the workplaces to support those women
right with.
Speaker 2 (30:52):
In in that in that space. Right. So what so
with your line managers or your HR being able.
Speaker 1 (30:58):
To understand if possible you can look at hybrid or
flexi hours, Yeah, not every day. It's not every day
that you feel awful, because if we've educated you about
your options, you're gonna start, You're okay, So you move
from a place where you're just simply surviving symptoms a
place where you're thriving. Let me tell you, it feels
great when you are no level of friving, and friving
(31:22):
can involve anything. It can involve lifestyle, it can involve
medical options, it can involve all of those control Yeah,
you need a toolkit.
Speaker 2 (31:32):
Yeah, the toolkit is not like it doesn't have to
be complicated, right.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Yeah, it's just about again awareness and knowing what your
options are, right I think.
Speaker 2 (31:41):
And also like even having little.
Speaker 1 (31:43):
Fans for the women or a cooler place for women
who have hot flashes, because hot flashes they're no joke.
Speaker 2 (31:51):
For women who really really struggle with them.
Speaker 1 (31:53):
Right. So yeah, so a little just little tweaks here
and there, and also just the feeling of feeling support it.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yeah, it's a much day.
Speaker 1 (32:03):
Like if you're in a space that sees you, yeah,
beyond you know what you do in the company, it's
function numbers.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
They see you and they care, like are you okay
that they care you? Even just feel like you can
thrive in that.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
You're going to thrive and employees feel supported, they will thrive,
they will thrive, right, And so I want us to
go to I know you've talked a bit about you're
not where you are when you were getting into your
foot where you are?
Speaker 2 (32:35):
Now, what does your toolkits look like today? Okay, where
do I start? Okay?
Speaker 1 (32:45):
So my toolkit today? I think I pretty much already
said it. But let me just take you.
Speaker 2 (32:50):
Let me take me through your day or your the
interventions or interventions. Yeah, okay, so alcohol is out.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
Yeah, I thought sadly how to But also now when
it had to go, I'm like, okay, I should have
stopped earlier.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
I'm like, it's not impossible here. Okay. So yeah, so
now like my only regrets is like I didn't stop earlier.
Speaker 1 (33:13):
Now I sort of thinking, like all those years in
my thirties, like anyway, so there's that.
Speaker 2 (33:18):
Yeah, I look now I've looked more at my nutrition. Yeah,
in terms of trying to eat more bad balance.
Speaker 1 (33:27):
So we work with an amazing nutritionist and over where
I have learned so much in terms of like a
balance plate, getting my macrozine meaning my carbs, my protein,
and my vegetables, making sure I get enough fiber by
the way, you know, what I used to supplement a
lot when I was trying to fix my symptoms. Right now,
(33:49):
I should show you what was in my supplement drawer.
It had hundreds of supplements. But you know what's interesting.
Right now, I'm really like down to maybe two supplements. Wow,
I used to take everything I used to take. Let
me let me just name something I used to be
like on Gaba and Tony try try trip to five.
It was.
Speaker 2 (34:11):
I was taking I was in a.
Speaker 1 (34:13):
Barbery, like I was trying everything. I had a whole
supplement stack. I was on neck.
Speaker 2 (34:20):
Why not zinc? Anyway, So now with so I looked
at my.
Speaker 1 (34:24):
Nutrition and so now I know supplements are helpful for
many especially where you're deficient.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
But again we have all these.
Speaker 1 (34:36):
All these companies that want to sell you a supplement
for menopause, and I'm really like, okay, again.
Speaker 2 (34:43):
That's where.
Speaker 1 (34:46):
Like you need to really invest a lot of money
in supplements. So I really also whittled down on what
supplements I'm taking. So I do an Omega three and
magnesium own, right, So that's pretty much it.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Yeah, And then I also so supplement like should in
the world. It's supplementing, So the best option.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Is to get tested your nutrition, what is on your plate,
like helping me maximize right where you're getting certain things from.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Right. Although I did do some blood work.
Speaker 1 (35:18):
My vitamin D was though, so I also do a
vitamin D supplement, which apparently I've come to learn.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
That a lot of people are deficient.
Speaker 1 (35:26):
Take no. I got tested and I was okay, But
it's also because of where I stay, Like it's also lifestyle.
Speaker 2 (35:34):
So a lot of us, like will drive to the
office and.
Speaker 1 (35:37):
They'll sit in the office even on a sunny days
in office, right, And I intentionally because of my doctor,
my my levels were.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
Bad, which was like, you need to be outside, so
do you get a lot of sun.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Exposure when you're working and stuff like yeah, yeah, so yeah,
so that's that's nutrition. So I looked at my nutrition
switched up. I was doing a lot of process foods,
like a lot. I mean not to say process foods
are bad. Something I've also learned is a lot of
foods a process like yeah, even did you know the
(36:10):
like what a process food is or because a lot
of people think like yogurt is not a process food,
like you get Actually I was told look at it.
Speaker 2 (36:18):
By one of the guests this season Coachruzan.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
She says, you want your plate to have things as
close to what they look like in the farm.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Yeah, yes, right, and not anything altered.
Speaker 1 (36:31):
Right. So I was like, that's such a beautiful way
to think about it, because then when you say something
like yoga, then you start thinking, yeah, actually, yeah, gone
through something. It's gone through some process. But not all
process food is bad. Let me just say bad because
really with food is food, there's really no bad or
good foods, right, so not all should be like blacklisted
(36:54):
because like like Greek yogurt is really really good yeah,
and like yoga proprioti and stuff like that.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
So yeah, So I looked at my plate and I
just tried to tweaking yell here there.
Speaker 1 (37:10):
I was like, okay, so the bacon has to go
maybe while, and it's not like totally bad. It's just
trying to like come just yeah, just to figure out
what like how I can do better my plate can
look better nutritionally, right, yeah, just looking at food at
(37:30):
a plate, like what it can what it gives me nutritionally,
you know, food and veg which is nice and stuff
like that. So with nutrition, I've really learned together with
the nutrition is that over how to do better, how
to make better food choices, not that any food choices
are bad.
Speaker 2 (37:47):
I'm really trying to be careful here, but it's like
what what do I need now? And how much of water? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,
in terms of nutrition.
Speaker 1 (37:56):
In terms of nutrition, yeah, fitness as well, because like
when we had our you.
Speaker 2 (38:00):
Were on the treadmill. Yeah, and I have your social
media it's active.
Speaker 1 (38:08):
Yeah, yeah, I'm.
Speaker 2 (38:09):
Reactive, which is wonderful. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:12):
Yeah, fitness has been a big part of my life
and it continues to be.
Speaker 2 (38:18):
Yeah, what can I say? That's just it's it's a
did it help with it? Was it one of the
things in your toolkits like to help you navigate this transition? Absolutely?
Speaker 1 (38:29):
I think it's number one my in my toolbox. Fitness
is like really really number one, Like with I don't
know where i'd be without without my workouts. Yeah yeah,
So what I do is you know, strength training, cardio,
like come at least five five fife to six times
a week.
Speaker 2 (38:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:50):
Just being active yeah yeah, so being active and moving
and moving what hell?
Speaker 2 (38:56):
Stress is like press man managed because.
Speaker 1 (39:01):
There's a workplace and then there's a business and I
know you're an entrepreneur, yes, right, So how what are
the things you started doing to like manage your stress better?
Speaker 2 (39:12):
Oh? I just say don't sweat the small stuff.
Speaker 1 (39:16):
Honestly, like a lot of I have a friend who says,
like she finds the word stress management.
Speaker 2 (39:21):
I don't know what where she uses very like cliche, like, Okay,
she always hears stress management. She's like, what the hell
is there? Like when you're stressed, it's really stress managing.
Like yeah, Like if you're stressed because of.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
A circumstance, let's say it's a financial circumstances, is there?
Speaker 2 (39:41):
What do you mean stress management?
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Like?
Speaker 2 (39:43):
Maybe? Maybe for me? How gonna say?
Speaker 1 (39:46):
Like when I say don't sweat the small stuff, it
can sound very dissociative, but sometimes I'm like, I'm not
I don't have my coping mechanism. Yeah, so sometimes I'm
just like, you know what, I'm not gonna sweat it.
Speaker 2 (39:58):
And that works for me. I'm like, you know what.
Speaker 1 (40:01):
It's not gonna kill me us today. You know, you
know what has been a game changer for me, which
I tell you I started earlier and I used to
listen to all these podcasts about it.
Speaker 2 (40:15):
It's such a small thing that is journaling.
Speaker 1 (40:19):
Oh yeah, And I had read some research that was
done that said during the pandemic, obviously globally, our stress
levels were communally high.
Speaker 2 (40:30):
Yeah, we're losing jaws, were losing their clothes, like people
were dying. You didn't know, do I have it? Do
I not see in this constant state of anxiety?
Speaker 3 (40:39):
Right?
Speaker 1 (40:39):
And they said the thing that they saw made the
most impact was journaling. They were like, there were all
of these other things people doing, but journally, do you right?
And so yeah, And so I started, like I used
to end up, but I was very like I stopped
like a journal one day ten weeks, I don't And
so I started doing like every morning, like I shut
(41:00):
it in and oh my god, I don't know what
the science is. But for me, I started when I
was in like your friend is saying, in the middle
of the stressing something, and all of a sudden I
could and the app I used prompts you right, And
all of a sudden I could see life outside of
(41:21):
this stressful issue. Like all of a sudden, it wasn't
the only thing that consumed or was the definition of
my life at the time.
Speaker 3 (41:31):
I could remember, Oh, someone gave me this nice to
say this questionion we love or I felt seen by
this person, and all of a sudden, this thing.
Speaker 1 (41:41):
Yes, it's stressful, Yes it's important, but on the plate
of what's going on in my life.
Speaker 2 (41:47):
That also it's just one thing. Yeah, also the other thing.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
Right.
Speaker 2 (41:52):
I don't know why I didn't start, like journaling. How
long have you done it?
Speaker 1 (41:57):
I think I'm on the second month, but I saw
a shift within seven days.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
It's so weird. I'm gonna try then, I'm gonna try journally. Yeah,
I'm gonna try. Like I know, we put resources. The
app I use is called gratitude. I'll called gratitude. Yeah.
So you do an electronic journal? Yeah, oh yeah, and
it prompts you. I think that's what it does. Because
if I'm left to journal about whatever, I'm only going to.
Speaker 1 (42:24):
Talk about the stressful thing, right right, But if you
prompt me and say, tell me about something that made
you happy yesterday, and I pause and I think, and
I'm like, oh, yeah, actually I.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Saw this and it made me so and it expands
my perspective. So I don't know.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
Okay, So channeling is yes, it's not you know, it's
just things like the therapist who told me about yes
I could take you out of here. Yeah, it sticks
with me, and I start doing and I and I
noticed the difference. Oh my, that's why I like that
you shared that as well. So because stress is, as
you say, it is a baseline for so many other
(43:02):
chronic illnesses, especially for women. Right, And that's why I'm
just like, I've got to get the stress things right. Yeah, right, okay,
so the exercise helps the stress.
Speaker 2 (43:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
And I always take time to be grateful, Like every night,
I'm like before I go to bed. You know, sometimes
the world is moving so fast that sometimes you're not
even grateful that for your health, You're like, I have
I have the ability. Okay, maybe you're financially impacted, but
then if you look at it like being able, I
(43:35):
have my faculties of thinking I can get up, I
can walk. That means I can do something about That's
so it's a blessing like I'm able to do something
about this situation. So and also having like even like
your mental health in order, because it's there's so much
happening exactly right, So there's that gratitude. You know.
Speaker 2 (43:59):
I also do a bit of crazy things here and.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
There, like I love ice bathing, so I feel like,
you know, I started getting anxiety with in perimenopause, and
I limit I was one of those people who never
understood anxiety until so I would not understand being anxious.
(44:24):
And I was like, you know, I was on the internet.
I was like the iceba thing. But for me it
works maybe because it's able to slow down my breathing
and it's something I do, like at least twice a week. Yeah,
because for me, it's for me, Yes, I feel it's
it's a game change, right, I got deep breathing exercises
really work for a lot of people in terms of
(44:47):
you know, stress management as well.
Speaker 2 (44:49):
Do you do deep breathings? And I was going to
say with anxiety, why that ice pots would also work.
Speaker 1 (44:54):
It's like you're also told you can hold ice, like
if you're going through and because I actually battle anxiety,
so like if you go and just hold either ice
or something cold. I don't know the science behind it,
but it like it almost brings you back to this
to awareness maybe because so I would see how I mean,
(45:17):
I wouldn't get into the ice bag, but I'm harding
as working for you, So I'm a love of cold showers,
like every morning for some reason, it helps me regulate
my breething. So that's the first thing I do in
the morning is regulate my breething with If I can't
really like prepare my eyes bath, I'll just do like
a cold shower.
Speaker 2 (45:36):
That's yeah, I just swear by it. So yeah, it's
really helped a lot.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
I just love how open you are about your own
personal journey and that you didn't only fix it for yourself,
but even what you're doing with the workplace is like, hey,
but if I battled it and I'm not a nine
to five, I.
Speaker 2 (45:57):
Want to help those other women as well.
Speaker 1 (45:58):
And that's commendable to women who are watching this and
want to be part of your community. Want to join
over circle and we've heard the WhatsApp group got full.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Again, they're another one.
Speaker 1 (46:10):
Like before I I I answer that, I want to
also say that apart from the lifestyle modifications that I've mentioned,
what I've done that works for me.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
The reason I could make.
Speaker 1 (46:26):
These choices was because I am aware, I'm educated and
know about them. Let me just talk a bit about
there's a there's something known as virginal atrophy so what
what is that? It is?
Speaker 2 (46:41):
So as your estrogen.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
Declines, you start experiencing like a lot of vaginal dryness,
and sometimes it gets really bad for some women that
even their labya may.
Speaker 2 (46:55):
Their minora dry up.
Speaker 1 (46:58):
Even We've had a conversation with one of the doctors
of the OVER and it disappears like you know, like
you know, you go back to pre puberty where you
don't have your laby or minor and it's a very
uncomfortable situation. So what I noticed was like I was
waking up a lot at night to go and pee,
like it would totally disrupt my sleep. And we've talked
(47:18):
about how everything feeds on everything else, right sleep, you
don't sleep well. So I was waking up all the
time to pee, all the time to pee, and in
the OVER community, I was having a conversation with the
doctor and that's when I discovered there's vaginal estrogen creed.
Speaker 2 (47:34):
Yes, and it's let me tell you that's it.
Speaker 1 (47:37):
I don't know, I don't know how it worked, but
it worked. And you see, just knowing there's that and
knowing removes it in the shame. So now, yeah, like
it's so wrong. Something is not wrong. With me, yes,
like and you see like with there's a lot of beuties,
a lot of pea, a lot of dryness. So also
I've in my toolbox there's I'm not started monotherapy yet.
(48:01):
I always tell everybody like, if my symptoms are so severe,
like my hot flashes are so severe that I can't
sleep and then it impacts the quality of my life,
definitely open to it.
Speaker 2 (48:11):
But like vaginal estrogen.
Speaker 1 (48:13):
Cream works locally, it's not like systemic, So that's also
in my toolbox, Like you see this, So it's about
also being open to whatever options. But you can only
know what your options are if you know what to expect.
So even when you go to a doctor, you'd be like,
I know, and you can advocate for yourself. It's about
(48:34):
it gives you power, that is it. Yeah, and did
your mom tell you? Did our mother's looks like what
to expect? I was just saying it in an earlier episode.
Would just see our hands with fans, and I used
to think, oh, there's so fancy. I know. Yeah, there's
just a lot of like the belly waiting and you're like, okay,
(48:54):
that's how.
Speaker 2 (48:57):
Middle aged woman.
Speaker 1 (48:59):
And I'm also challenging that perception because even when you
go online and you see what a middle aged woman
looks like, it's especially our yeah and certainly yeah yeah,
And I feel like then that bleeds into shame, and
if you're in that space as a woman, you then
(49:20):
don't even reach out to look for knowledge because you're
you go deeper into something's wrong with me, And I'm
not worthy to be in certain spaces.
Speaker 2 (49:30):
I'm not something's wrong with me, and getting you out
of there is harder. But like with this knowledge, yeah,
this I think can help and couples with agism.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
I think we had mentioned, like when we spoke on
the phone, there's a agism factor.
Speaker 2 (49:44):
We live in a very age of society. Yeah, we
have anti wrinkled creams. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:49):
Fact my little rebellion is I'm never using any anty.
Speaker 2 (49:53):
Anything created because it pisses me off.
Speaker 1 (49:56):
Yeah, Like and you see that's that's where the focus
is because and it's all there, well, it's esthetic, it's esthetic.
That So I completely agree with you because with age,
and it's like, how do we make you age aesthetically
pleasing instead of how do we ensure you're thriving and
you're healthy and your health span even if you're aging,
(50:19):
You're aging strongly. Yes, it's such a world yet, yeah,
being able to do the things that you love doing, okay,
really able to show up, which speaks to health and
not how do I have wrinkles or not? Like no?
Speaker 2 (50:32):
Yeah, right, So another thing I want.
Speaker 1 (50:33):
To touch on before I talk about where to find
yeah overcircle is centering the African woman's story and experience.
Speaker 2 (50:42):
That that gap really pissed me off. Again, it made
me so sad.
Speaker 1 (50:46):
Like when you talk about data and research, I think
it was like nineteen seventy.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
Yeah, the last research was done.
Speaker 1 (50:54):
Because there's a recent one that's been done in Cambo
about women in the workplace and what they struggle with
most and how it affects their work, which I was
happy to see. But there's such a huge gap in
the African narrative around menopause and that really really was
(51:17):
one of the compelling factors that I said, we need
to put a community together where we can share stories
because a lot of the protocols we're getting is from.
Speaker 2 (51:28):
Where that is.
Speaker 1 (51:29):
Yeah, yeah, and studies that have not been done with
people who look like us. Because for the younger generation,
we want narratives and stories from someone who looks like me.
I keep saying, I know oprah Is, for example, is
talking about menopause and stuff. It's amazing or halliar.
Speaker 2 (51:47):
But what we need to know is in.
Speaker 1 (51:50):
Africa it's a totally different experience because first of all,
the treatments they talk about costs a lot.
Speaker 2 (51:57):
Here. There's accessibility to treatments here that we can I
don't know.
Speaker 1 (52:02):
We can talk about, okay, hormonal therapy for your symptoms,
but how many women an access hormonal therapy? Let's let's
be real, Yeah, let's be it would cost about ten
thousand shillings a month.
Speaker 2 (52:16):
Yeah, which also brings me to.
Speaker 1 (52:21):
Lobbying and policy making because insurance companies wehre's the camera
these step up right, Yeah, and the.
Speaker 2 (52:31):
People in spaces that can make you guys can make that.
Speaker 1 (52:34):
Decision, right because at ten twelve thousand shillings a month
on hormonal treatments, how many women can can afford that?
Speaker 2 (52:44):
Yeah? Yeah? And then when you look at supply of
hormone treatments.
Speaker 1 (52:47):
They're not You know what, I have women who I
know women or I know I know women or have
friends who are hormonal therapy. They need to buy their
medicine like seven months, eight months in advance. And and
why is that gup there? Yeah, yeah, it's it's the
system is not designed to support women.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
Right, Yeah, that's a certain stage. It's just is. And
I love that you we're so angry. Yeah, and I
love that you bring that up.
Speaker 1 (53:19):
Because even when we even if we say today as Africa,
as Kenya, we're going to figure out interventions that can
support women during you know, perimenopause into menopause, like at
all stages, right, Yeah, what data is driving what what
is informing interventions? And that's why localized data is so
(53:44):
important because the context is different, the culture is different.
That and remember what I said about how the ecosystem
on how you experience your symptoms is affected by.
Speaker 2 (53:57):
All of these things. Yes, right, there you go, but yeah,
there you go.
Speaker 1 (54:02):
So when we look at our context, which is it
is very different from the context of somebody in Europe
and in the West, right, and that is a major
major gap. Since we were talking about gaps, that's a
major gap. Yeah, So our stories, our experiences, our data.
(54:22):
I want to open Instagram and see somebody who looks
like me telling me about the menopaust right, and talking
about local locally sourced, interventionually, even if even if nutrition, Yeah,
because I don't want to read about things and I
have to start thinking, so what is this?
Speaker 2 (54:42):
What is what is wherever I find?
Speaker 1 (54:47):
You know, it needs to have local contexts, right, yeah,
which is why the work you're doing is important exactly.
So it brings me back to the community. Yeah, it's
the best space ever. I love, I love, I really
(55:08):
love being there, like, oh my god, yeah, I love
being there.
Speaker 2 (55:12):
Unfortunately it's it's full because WhatsApp has a limit.
Speaker 1 (55:16):
However, we do have a what's Up channel, but I'd
say the best place to start is our platform is
launching soon so we can expand and sign up more members.
Speaker 2 (55:28):
So we are at online is the overcircle dot com? Yeah,
so it's the overcircle dot com. So we are launching
very soon.
Speaker 1 (55:36):
So we have a landing page there which talks a
bit about over and you can sign up and wait
lists and we can be able to have this information
to all women and even men. Yeah right, because women,
we do not live in an island. We live in
a society with men. Yeah. So the that's supportant I
(55:57):
understand exactly exactly, because if you're really struggling through the transition.
It affects how you show up in the world, how
you show up in your relationships with your children and
with your partners as well, and you know what with
yourself that's the most important one, right Yeah, so and
so you guys, you there's the information.
Speaker 2 (56:17):
But I know you also have like talks or forums.
Speaker 1 (56:20):
So yeah, we have we do events where we do talks,
and we have some webinars up on our YouTube page,
YouTube channels, the Overcircle. We're on Spotify. We've gone a
few episodes of what to Expect. It's also called the Overcircle.
But the best place where all those links are is
(56:41):
our website, which is the Overcircle dot com.
Speaker 2 (56:45):
Yeah, thank you so much for the word. There are
any other questions.
Speaker 1 (56:53):
I feel like you're talking about gaps, and yes, that's
very important to highlight them. But I want to kind
of giving your flowers because you are feeling in at that.
Speaker 2 (57:04):
Thank you, you know.
Speaker 1 (57:05):
And as much as women will come to the to
the page and get all of the information, they also
get community. I think it's absolutely it's such a transformative thing,
right when you're going to whatever stage of womanhood, when
you know I'm not alone and I can ask before
I ask a doctor. You know we do that, right, Yeah,
(57:27):
I ask a doctor. You'll tell a friend like I
am feeling no, no, no no. Having that community is
so important, so you are feeling in.
Speaker 2 (57:37):
It's really just it's really important.
Speaker 1 (57:40):
Like yeah, community, you can't we cannot underestimate the value
of community.
Speaker 2 (57:45):
Yeah, yeah, so thank you? So mad are the thing
I wanted to say, yeah, but I can't.
Speaker 1 (57:52):
Remember, you know, brain fog. Oh yeah, yeah, I just remembered,
like and then also I want to ask you sometimes
I take over there. I want to ask you like, okay,
you've done conversations around menopausitia, well mainly the season.
Speaker 2 (58:06):
This is this season and before I think there was
a lot of fear because this.
Speaker 1 (58:14):
Oh my god, this is gonna happen, these symptoms, You've
got flashes or I won't sleep. But there's also what
I want to do is remove that that fear of
getting there, because a lot of people come to me
and say, like, Okay, when we see you or we
see your page and how you work out and you're
still strong and like yeah, like forty seven, they're like,
(58:37):
I no longer fear. Yeah, So I think also it's
I don't know if this is a question to you,
but it's more like, how do you feel because you're
growing old?
Speaker 2 (58:48):
Yeah, how do you feel?
Speaker 1 (58:49):
Are you prepared or you feel like you could you're
better prepared than the baby boomers?
Speaker 2 (58:55):
Yeah, no idea.
Speaker 1 (58:56):
For example, this is such a good question because when
I sat down with doctor Kenya, I did tell her
that the first we never ever used to even know
about perimenopause.
Speaker 2 (59:07):
We only knew menopads and right.
Speaker 1 (59:10):
We didn't know menopause is one day we thought it's
the entirety, right, and so it wasn't even cold menopause.
Speaker 2 (59:19):
It's like the big m And Yeah, when.
Speaker 1 (59:22):
I turned thirty, I was just feeling like this is
wonderful because I feel like twenties were the ghetto, like
chaotic nonsense. Yeah, and then thirty, I just started feeling
a lot more empowered and a lot more clear about
who I am as a woman. You start seeing all
the way society tries to like hold.
Speaker 2 (59:44):
You back and put your lives.
Speaker 1 (59:46):
Yeah. Yeah, and no, sooner have I started enjoying than
I start hearing about the right and.
Speaker 4 (59:53):
Yeah, like guys, see, I just wanted to I want
to enjoy the Yeah, can I enjoy this certain but
the more I'm having these conversations, the less fear.
Speaker 1 (01:00:04):
I don't even think there's fear anymore, because the conversation
has giving me knowledge, so I'm like, oh, okay, so
that's what i'd expect. And the second thing, it's giving
me options of like what's in my control. So I
really think when I start experiencing symptoms, if I do,
because there's also that right, yeah, I'm not going to panic,
(01:00:27):
I'll be like, okay, so that's what's happening.
Speaker 2 (01:00:30):
All right, where can I go? There's going to be
places like your community, right, So the fear has gone.
The fear, but there was fear because there was shame
and silence and no conversation, yeah, which also fears.
Speaker 1 (01:00:45):
I think else, I can ask you, since you've been
in media, what I may be wrong in my observation,
so you can feel free to correct me. But I
feel like maybe it's a societal thing of putting women
in boxes.
Speaker 2 (01:00:59):
But women, as we ate, they tend to disappear. Oh yeah,
so okay, so you said yes. So the challenge is
to all women out there is.
Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
Do not allow yourself to be made invisible, because that's
where the shame comes from right, you live loud and
proud in your menopause journey or whatever phase you are in. Yeah,
because that's what ageism does. That's what shaming a phase does.
When they tell you, okay, you're no longer reproductive, then
they want you to disappear and to go away and
(01:01:35):
to knit cardigans in the village. But you know, you
got to refuse to disappear. And that's what I I've
noticed because them, i'd say, the ones. There's some who've
talked about their menopause transition. But I still I'm like,
I did not know any of this, So I was like,
where was this information, you know when I was committed? Yes, right, yes,
(01:01:56):
So we need to be proud at whatever phase and
state we are. We can't just be showing like the
anti okay we can't, but we can show the anti
wrinkled creams and all that. But we need to show
that this is a phase that we can thrive in,
like and you arrive at proudly yeah, yeah, and that
you're valuable and your sad you are so valuable.
Speaker 2 (01:02:17):
Yeact.
Speaker 1 (01:02:18):
I think historically the women who were in the in
menopause were actually now the in cultures. They're the wise
ones that they would make decisions with men. Yeah, that's
how it was. We become wise. That's where those things
come from. Like I'm wise, are now than I ever
(01:02:40):
was in my twenties. Yeah, so yeah, we let's embrace that. Yeah,
that is such a wonderful like, refuse to be hidden. Yeah,
refuse that shame right, absolutely, live loudly.
Speaker 2 (01:02:54):
To the very end, goes silently into that. Good night, Davy. Yeah, so,
thank you so much for.
Speaker 1 (01:03:03):
The energy and the work that you're doing. I hope
you enjoyed this episode, And if you check the description,
you will find links on how you can connect with
the oversacle. Share it with all the women that you
know could benefit from being part of that community. And
if you like this episode, give it a like, share
it with all the manalists or almost mannerist women in
(01:03:25):
your life, and subscribe so that you do not miss
out on the next episode.
Speaker 2 (01:03:31):
Stay maneralous. Yes,
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