April 1, 2024 • 24 mins
Join us on the Long-Distance Worklife Podcast as we dive into the quirky and often unspoken rules of virtual meeting behaviors. This episode isn't about mute buttons or camera angles; it's about the nitty-gritty of what happens on camera - from fashion choices like donning hats to the presence of pets and snack etiquette. We explore whether sipping coffee or munching during a meeting is a faux pas or just fine. With a blend of humor and practical advice, we dissect these everyday scenarios to help you navigate the dos and don’ts of digital professionalism. Tune in for a lively discussion that promises to add a new perspective to your next online meeting!
Key Takeaways
1. Consider Your Headwear: Before joining a virtual meeting, think about the message your choice of hat or headwear sends. Is it aligned with the meeting's tone and formality?
2. Pet Policy: Decide if having your pet in view during the meeting is appropriate. Consider the nature of the meeting and if your furry friend might be a distraction or a delightful icebreaker.
3. Mindful Eating: If you need to eat during a meeting, assess the context. For formal or short meetings, it’s best to wait. In longer or casual settings, keep it unobtrusive and tidy.
4. Discreet Drinking: Having a beverage? Stick to non-alcoholic options and keep it professional. A simple mug or a water bottle is usually fine, but avoid anything that might cause distraction.
5. Background Check: Take a moment to evaluate your surroundings. Ensure your background is tidy and professional, reflecting the image you want to project in the meeting.
6. Tech Check: Before the meeting starts, test your tech! Ensure your internet is stable and familiarize yourself with the meeting platform’s features to avoid any technical hiccups.
7. Engage Actively: Plan to participate actively in the meeting. Think about points you want to raise or questions you might ask to show your engagement and interest.
Timestamps
00:00 Introduction
01:30 Hat Etiquette
04:20 Pets in the Picture
07:15 Eating on Camera
10:05 Drinking Beverages
13:50 Background and Environment
17:40 Technical Preparedness
19:45 Generational Differences
21:30 Meeting Participation
24:50 Conclusion
Related Episodes
Additional Resources
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
Welcome back to Long-Distance
Worklife, where we help you lead, workand thrive in remote and hybrid teams.
I'm Marisa Eikenberry,a fellow remote worker.
And joining me is my co-hostand remote work expert, Wayne Turmel.
That would be me. Hi.
How are you? I'm great.
How are you?
I'm great.
It feels like a million yearssince we have recorded one of these.
So this could be fun.
(00:29):
Or it could be a car wreck.
This is the joy of recording live, right?
Yeah.
I was going to say,I mean, for those that are now scared,
if you're first timelisteners, do not shut this off,
but that being said,
today we're actually going to talkabout acceptable meeting behaviors.
So we actually got this surveysent to us by our boss, Kevin.
(00:51):
And so it's a 2023 YouGov surveythat was done of
just different, acceptable or unacceptableleading behaviors.
And they start offwith just behaviors in general.
And then we actually gointo generational stuff.
But now just to clarify,
for the mere mortals out therewho can't read our minds,
(01:11):
YouGov is
essentially this is a survey,internal survey of U.S.
federal workers in all the branches,
all the divisions, all the stuff right.
Now, lots and lots of people.
Context. Yeah, exactly.
And one of the first things that they didtalk about,
(01:32):
which we've talked about before, you know,we mentioned remote work, is that
while we would like to thinkthat this is a majority of the population,
the majority of the populationis not remote working.
But they talked about 32% of Americansparticipate
in virtual meetingsfor work and 37% for like personal calls.
So so that's where we're going with this.
(01:53):
But Wayne, were there any that kind ofstuck out to you from this first,
you know, acceptable,not acceptable, graphic.
And for those of you that are watching,I'm going to have this up on the screen.
Yeah,I think if we look at the general numbers,
we're not getting generationalor granular on this, just in general.
(02:15):
Certain things make sense, right?
Having a TV on in the background,
smoking, although that's interesting.
Okay.
So why is it interesting to you?
Well, it says a whole lot more about
where society is gonethan where the meetings have gone.
Because if we think about why
smoking was banned in the workplace,
(02:39):
second hand smoke
being rude and blowingsmoke in somebody's face,
all of that good stuff.
A lot of people take remote meetingsin the privacy
of their own home or a hotel room,wherever they happen to be.
And secondhand smoke is not an issue.
You cannot catch secondhand smoke.
(03:01):
Right through.
Zoom. That is true.
So I think that says more about the fact
that people just don't want anybodysmoking at all.
Whether or not it's rude on a meeting.
Now, some of that isI come from the generation
where I can rememberpeople smoking in meetings.
(03:25):
Yeah, See that? I can't remember.
I was old enough to still remembersmoking in restaurants
and there being a section for both.
And of course, I live in Las Vegaswhere you can still do that.
All right.
Well,
and then for our audio listeners,so for smoking,
they said, you know, 75% of those surveyedsaid it's not acceptable in any meeting,
(03:45):
while 12% said it's acceptablein informal meetings.
And five said it's,5% said it's acceptable in any meeting.
Yeah.
One of the interesting thingsI found about this report
is that there is an increasing,
especially among people
under older than dirt.
(04:08):
There is an increasing gapbetween what it's
okay to do in an informal meeting,you know teammates a teammate
than in a formal meetingwhere you're doing a sales presentation
or you have a customer on the lineor whatever that works out to.
I think that is interesting.
(04:31):
yeah, for sure.
And where you find that a lot is,
is itokay to have a child or a pet in your lap?
Right.
And interestingly, more peoplefind it acceptable
to have a pet in your lapthan a kid in your lap,
which in a strange way makes sense.
(04:52):
It really does.
But, you know, I can remember
when remote work started to catch on.
If you wanted to know whether or notsomebody worked remotely on a regular
basis or not, you'd be on a conferencecall and a dog would bark.
And the people who worked
(05:12):
remotelywould say, say hi to Bailey for me.
And the people who didn't workremotely were like,
Is that a dog?
Like they'd never heard a dog before?
Right.
And so I think that gap between
formal and informal,if I'm just talking to you,
(05:36):
you know, I don't care.
Right, Right, Exactly.
Like Max Barks. And it's fine.
Yeah.
Max barks Or he jumps in my lap
and I hold him up and gosay hi to Auntie Marisa.
Right, right. Right.
Yeah.
My husband drops in behind me,and I'm just like, my God, Go away.
And I'm going, Hi, Parker.
Right.
Say hi to Uncle Ray.
(06:00):
So I think some of thoseare really interesting
where you start to see some gaps.
Is. Is it okay to eat?
Right? Right. Is it okay to drink?
There is a percentage of humansand I'm looking for it.
And I'm wonderingwho these evil people are. 3%.
(06:20):
No, it's not 3%.
It's.
I'm looking for
drinking and nonalcoholic drinks.
Yeah.
So 17%say it's not acceptable in any medium.
53% say it's acceptable in any meeting.
And 22 say only informal meetings.
Yeah.
The Geneva Convention sayspeople are allowed hydration.
(06:41):
Right.
Like I remember looking atthis would be like,
I don't think I have ever beenbothered by somebody taking a drink ever.
I can understandnot wanting to be on a meeting
and it's not a happy hour and like,they're clearly drinking a beer.
Like, that's a problem.
I get that.
But like, I have a soda with me
all the timeand I drink it in meetings all the time.
(07:04):
And I never thought about itbeing a problem until I saw that.
Well, until we hold the intervention.
Well, you know,
it could be worse.
So, you know, if we look at it, it's
not really surprising what people thinkis acceptable and unacceptable.
I suppose.
(07:27):
It gets interesting around
formal and informal meetings.
Right.
And I have been on informal meetings.
And again, everything is context, right?
Right. I belong to a writer's group.
We used to regularly have cocktailsduring our meetings.
(07:47):
Yeah.
If we're talking about it, work.
I have had meetings with people overseas
who, you know, are taking the meetingout of the kindness of their heart.
But it's after dinner
and they have a glass of wineor a beer with them as we're having it.
And it doesn't bother me. Right.
(08:09):
First of all, they're the customer.
What am I going to say? Okay.
But also, it's an informal discussion.
And I want
I want a heightened level of informality
because I think you communicatebetter that way.
Right. Yeah.
I mean, I've been on some, you know,virtual happy hour stuff with sorority
(08:32):
sorority meetings or webinars or whatever.
And it's just like, yeah, like it's 9:00.
If I have a cocktail, it's fine.
If they have a cocktail, it's fine.
Now, one of the oneswhich is very personal to me because and
people who regularly viewthis don't know this,
but I wear hats a lot.
(08:52):
I thought about you when I saw the.
Different types of hats,
but you'll notice that nobody on this
podcast has ever seen me wearing a hatbecause I differentiate
between workWayne and Wayne in the rest of my life.
However, the one time Ido wear a hat on a work call
(09:16):
is because I live on the West Coast.
My daystarts way earlier than everybody else's.
And if somebody'snot necessarily a client,
but if somebody on our teamor somebody like that
calls a meeting for 9:00 Eastern
time, there is a pretty good chance
(09:36):
I am not going to be showeredand presentable.
Right.
And so I can throw on a shirtthat's not a big deal,
but all off and put on a baseball capjust so I don't look like Albert Einstein.
Well, I thought it was interesting, too,when I was seeing that, because, you know,
we had a team member
(09:57):
that she wore hats frequentlyand that was just part of her style.
That was just how she was.
And I was never bothered by it.
When I would see out,it was usually a wow, like that.
That's cool hat.
I hadn't seen or wear that one beforeor something like that.
So I definitely found it interesting
it being on this because it is an issue.
(10:19):
Most people who wear hats do it as a cheapattempt at branding and difference.
Yeah, it's just myself included. Right.
So that
particularperson that was part of her wacky.
Yeah, That was her.
Laid back style and it was great.
One of the things that is important,
(10:39):
if you're going to do that, though,and baseball caps are a problem for this,
is they affect the lighting over your eyesand very often
make it hard for people to see your eyes.
And that can be a problem.
Right. And I can totally see that right.
Now where things get ugly
(10:59):
as we look at that
is generationally. Yes.
What people find acceptableand what they don't.
I used to think I was pretty cool.
And and I do
differentiate between formaland informal meetings.
(11:20):
Right.
And since extremely formalhas never been my style.
I'm fairly relaxed
about some things,sometimes more than I should be.
And I am a child of my generation.
Right. Okay, So give us an example.
I'm 62 years old, right?
(11:42):
I'm lookingat where there's a huge difference
in what's acceptableand what's unacceptable.
You know, walking around the room
during the meeting.
Right.
There is no reason not to do that.
I'm when I'm in the conference room,
(12:03):
I very often because my jointsache and stuff and I have
the attention span of an Irish setter,so I have to burn off energy.
So I'll stand and moveto the back of the room. Right.
Stand against the back wall or somethingwhile the meeting is going on.
I tend not to do that on virtual meetings,
(12:23):
but I think that's largely a function
of my camera setup.
Right.
I'm on camera most of the time.
If it's a telephone call, I'll walk down.
There arethere are ruts in our carpet from where
I pace and walkduring a comp during a telephone call.
(12:44):
Right.
But generally
speaking, I'm a little more particularly
if it's a camera meeting,I'm a little more traditional.
Like now.
I'll sit there like a good boy and do it.
Yeah, I do it too.
And I have been on meetings
or even streams that I watchwhere like, people have gotten up.
(13:06):
And I think for methe issue is less that they've gotten up.
It's that their mic is set up for that.
And so now they're talking,I can't hear you.
You know what's worse?
I just realizedwhen I want to throttle the person.
Okay.
Not that I would.
Because you're virtual, so you're.
Actually laying hands on anotherhuman being is wrong.
(13:28):
It's okay to want to just don't do it
that way.
But the big one for
me and it's because I never do this, is I,
I don't do face time or meetings,
especially work meetings on my phone.
(13:49):
When I'm having a conversation,a webcam conversation
with they're on their phoneand they're walking,
and it's like
being on the deck of the Titanic.
Like, it's super distracting.
Well, not only that, but, like, okay, I'm.
Somebody gets motion sick, really easy.
And still,I literally cannot watch people do that.
(14:13):
Like, I know it's a thing.
And we've we've had people on our own teamthat have done that occasionally.
And I'm just like,I literally have to hide your camera
because otherwise I'm a puke all over the.
Yeah.
I am surprised thatthat wasn't mentioned in this list.
Yeah.
I mean, it was I don't know, you know,
(14:35):
the problem with surveys is
they people answer the questionthat you ask.
Right. Right.
Nobody says, by the way.
Yeah. This drives me crazy, too.
I think the biggest one
and this is true of the workplacein general, which gets
(14:55):
generational conflictis what you're wearing on your call.
Right.
Yeah. So.
So is it okay to wear your pajamas,you know?
Do you wear what you sleepin on a zoom meeting?
And, you know,I sleep naked, so the answer is no.
(15:17):
Thank you.
Welcome to another editionof too much information.
Like, unplug my headphones about.
Do not need to know. But.
But it drives me crazy.
My daughter wears pajamas.
24 seven.
She goes to the grocery store in a onesie.
(15:38):
No. It drives me insane.
Well, she's about a yearyounger than me. Yes.
Okay.
See, I was also the weird person,and I will confess, I'm weird
that I wouldn'tgo to college classes in pajamas,
and I felt like it was very respectfulor disrespectful When.
Why would somebody.
Go to college classes in pajamas?
Why would you leave your dorm room?
(16:01):
We had 8 a.m.
classesand I was like the only one in jeans.
I Yeah.
But now you're an old soul. That is true.
So, you know, I can appreciate that.
That's. That's why I adore you.
But it's not.
But, Jim, is there, like,an obvious example?
Correct.
Right. Right.
(16:23):
But what do you wear on a call?
And again, context matters.
Right. Right.
If I'm working from homeand because I'm always working from home
and you have a questionand we have to get on a zoom or
whatever, call real quick.
If I'm in my gym shorts,you know, if I'm not dressed
(16:45):
100% professionally,it doesn't matter because it's you and me.
It's going to be a five minuteconversation and we're out. Yep.
If I'm in front of a customer, a.
Totally different ballgame.
You know, from the hips up,
I need to be dressed like an adult.
Right.
I have worn a shirt, tie and cargo shorts.
(17:07):
I have done that more than once.
That's okay.
The customer doesn't see it. Yeah.
I mean, I've occasionally donethat where I've had yoga pants and, like,
something really nice or therewhen it's really cold in my office.
I have one of those like, Snuggie blanket
things that,I mean, like I it's, it's Navy blue.
(17:28):
I put on it.
I look like Cookie Monster.
Like it's a thing, but it's super warm.
But you better believe if I'm sitting hereand working with it on
and you or Kevin or somebody else is like,Hey, we have a meeting real quick.
It's Hey, can you give me a second?
And I will remove thatbecause I do have standards.
Yeah.
And I think that goesto a larger conversation which is worth
(17:51):
having someday about formalityor informality in the workplace.
Right.
I was working with 45 h.r.
People at a client yesterday,
and we were talking about
what are the things that they'redealing with and dress code
(18:14):
and a appropriate and inappropriate
clothing in the workplace
has bloomed as a problem.
Yeah, I've seen it in sorority meetingssometimes, too.
And i'm likethis is supposed to be business wear,
and you have a denim skirt on.
Like,we would have set them home if it was
(18:36):
when I was in, but it was like, Well,we can't say that now.
Yeah, it's interesting.
I just go back to what somebody told me,just post-COVID
when people were coming backand she goes, They've gone feral.
Right.
Like there used to bebecause the workplace
(18:57):
was I mean, it was largely homogenous.
But even if it wasn't homogenousdemographically,
there were just codesand the way things were done
and they were the waythings have been done for 100 years.
And you had work clothesand you had plain clothes.
Right, Right.
It's like going to school.
I had school clothesand plain clothes. They weren't the same.
(19:19):
And when we worked from
home, the it wasn't just that you're home.
You can wear whatever the heck you want,
but the social pressureabout what you wore went down.
So even now, men
who wear suits to the officerarely wear a tie.
Yeah, like they'll wear a jacket,button down shirt.
(19:43):
I mean, they'll look.They still look nice.
But they're not wearing, you know,the double Windsor at their throat.
And I think that
what that does and this gets backto the Spider-Man paradox, right?
With great power comes greatresponsibility is
just because you can dress a certain way
(20:03):
or act a certain wayor get away with doing something
online that you can't or wouldn't
do in the office doesn't mean you should.
Right.
I mean, there's still a level of respect,both for yourself and for whomever
you're on the call with.
And, you know, yes,you are a grown person.
(20:24):
Yes. You can make your own choices.
You know, it's the whole thing aboutdo you get dressed
in work,appropriate attire in the morning.
Right.
Even when nobody'sgoing to see you. Right.
There is evidence psychologicallythat it affects how you think
and how you workin your level of professionalism.
(20:44):
And there are plenty of people who say,shut up, old man, my onesie is fine
and it doesn't affect the outcome of my
spreadsheet.
Right.
Like, I know some peoplethat they feel like even when they're
working from home, I'm going to wear shoesbecause for them, like even just having,
you know, whatever they're wearing,having shoes is the thing that helps them
(21:08):
be productive.I am not one of those people.
I will admit I'm barefoot right nowand have a blanket on my lap,
but I'm still appropriately dressed.
And so senior notes.
Send your notes to Wilma Flintstone here.
Right.
But like I would have been evenwithout this podcast,
because that's just I'm just a.
(21:30):
From the house down.
It's the Wild West.
You could do whatever you wantfrom the bellybutton up.
You better look like you're working.
A couple of things.
We are way past time and we have hadan inordinate amount of fun, and
I think there are some important thingsto think about this right?
(21:53):
Where do the generational differences?
Right.
If I'm going to coach somebodyabout their appearance or their demeanor.
Am I doing itbecause it's a valid business reason?
Am I doing it because I am an old man?
Right? Right.
That is a conversation worth having
(22:14):
when it's you and I talking.
The level of formality is much lowerthan when I'm talking to a client.
And it should be right. Right.
If you are inappropriately informal
in a important business meeting.
Right. The VP is on the call.
(22:35):
Yeah.
Your AC DC T-shirtmay not be the best choice,
but again, it's incumbent on us.
Yes, the rules are changing.
Yes, they are more flexiblethan they ever were.
And what is the minimumprofessional standard
in your industry, on your team,in your organization?
(22:58):
Absolutely.
And those are the thingswe need to think about.
Look at me wrapping all this up,trying real hard to sound like
we've had a professional discussion
instead of venting,which we've largely been discussed.
And that being said,if you would like to know how to be
more professional in your meetingsand remote work, you can check out
(23:19):
our long distanceleadership series at Kevin Ikenberry, dot
com slash LDL s.
Thank you for listeningto the long work life
for shownotestranscripts and other resources.
Make sure to visit long distancework dot com.
If you haven't yet,subscribe to the podcast
so you won't miss any future episodes.
And while you're there,be sure to like in review.
This helps us know what you loveabout our show.
(23:42):
Feel free to contact us via email orLinkedIn with the links in our show notes
and let us know you listen to this episodeor even suggest topic for Wayne
and I to tackle any future episodeswe would love.
And tell us.
Tell us your meeting. Yes. Are we right?
Are we wrong?
Am I a grungy, grumpy old manyelling at clouds, or do I have a point?
Am I just an old soul?
(24:03):
Don't know how to actat 32 inches your shoes.
Darn it.
I might slip.
Or sometimes
when my feet are cool,
thick you for joining us, everybody.
And as Wayne likes to say,don't let the weasels get you down.
Welcome back to Long-Distance
Worklife, where we help you lead, workand thrive in remote and hybrid teams.
I'm Marisa Eikenberry,a fellow remote worker.
And joining me is my co-hostand remote work expert, Wayne Turmel.
That would be me. Hi.
How are you? I'm great.
How are you?
I'm great.
It feels like a million yearssince we have recorded one of these.
So this could be fun.
(00:29):
Or it could be a car wreck.
This is the joy of recording live, right?
Yeah.
I was going to say,I mean, for those that are now scared,
if you're first timelisteners, do not shut this off,
but that being said,
today we're actually going to talkabout acceptable meeting behaviors.
So we actually got this surveysent to us by our boss, Kevin.
(00:51):
And so it's a 2023 YouGov surveythat was done of
just different, acceptable or unacceptableleading behaviors.
And they start offwith just behaviors in general.
And then we actually gointo generational stuff.
But now just to clarify,
for the mere mortals out therewho can't read our minds,
(01:11):
YouGov is
essentially this is a survey,internal survey of U.S.
federal workers in all the branches,
all the divisions, all the stuff right.
Now, lots and lots of people.
Context. Yeah, exactly.
And one of the first things that they didtalk about,
(01:32):
which we've talked about before, you know,we mentioned remote work, is that
while we would like to thinkthat this is a majority of the population,
the majority of the populationis not remote working.
But they talked about 32% of Americansparticipate
in virtual meetingsfor work and 37% for like personal calls.
So so that's where we're going with this.
(01:53):
But Wayne, were there any that kind ofstuck out to you from this first,
you know, acceptable,not acceptable, graphic.
And for those of you that are watching,I'm going to have this up on the screen.
Yeah,I think if we look at the general numbers,
we're not getting generationalor granular on this, just in general.
(02:15):
Certain things make sense, right?
Having a TV on in the background,
smoking, although that's interesting.
Okay.
So why is it interesting to you?
Well, it says a whole lot more about
where society is gonethan where the meetings have gone.
Because if we think about why
smoking was banned in the workplace,
(02:39):
second hand smoke
being rude and blowingsmoke in somebody's face,
all of that good stuff.
A lot of people take remote meetingsin the privacy
of their own home or a hotel room,wherever they happen to be.
And secondhand smoke is not an issue.
You cannot catch secondhand smoke.
(03:01):
Right through.
Zoom. That is true.
So I think that says more about the fact
that people just don't want anybodysmoking at all.
Whether or not it's rude on a meeting.
Now, some of that isI come from the generation
where I can rememberpeople smoking in meetings.
(03:25):
Yeah, See that? I can't remember.
I was old enough to still remembersmoking in restaurants
and there being a section for both.
And of course, I live in Las Vegaswhere you can still do that.
All right.
Well,
and then for our audio listeners,so for smoking,
they said, you know, 75% of those surveyedsaid it's not acceptable in any meeting,
(03:45):
while 12% said it's acceptablein informal meetings.
And five said it's,5% said it's acceptable in any meeting.
Yeah.
One of the interesting thingsI found about this report
is that there is an increasing,
especially among people
under older than dirt.
(04:08):
There is an increasing gapbetween what it's
okay to do in an informal meeting,you know teammates a teammate
than in a formal meetingwhere you're doing a sales presentation
or you have a customer on the lineor whatever that works out to.
I think that is interesting.
(04:31):
yeah, for sure.
And where you find that a lot is,
is itokay to have a child or a pet in your lap?
Right.
And interestingly, more peoplefind it acceptable
to have a pet in your lapthan a kid in your lap,
which in a strange way makes sense.
(04:52):
It really does.
But, you know, I can remember
when remote work started to catch on.
If you wanted to know whether or notsomebody worked remotely on a regular
basis or not, you'd be on a conferencecall and a dog would bark.
And the people who worked
(05:12):
remotelywould say, say hi to Bailey for me.
And the people who didn't workremotely were like,
Is that a dog?
Like they'd never heard a dog before?
Right.
And so I think that gap between
formal and informal,if I'm just talking to you,
(05:36):
you know, I don't care.
Right, Right, Exactly.
Like Max Barks. And it's fine.
Yeah.
Max barks Or he jumps in my lap
and I hold him up and gosay hi to Auntie Marisa.
Right, right. Right.
Yeah.
My husband drops in behind me,and I'm just like, my God, Go away.
And I'm going, Hi, Parker.
Right.
Say hi to Uncle Ray.
(06:00):
So I think some of thoseare really interesting
where you start to see some gaps.
Is. Is it okay to eat?
Right? Right. Is it okay to drink?
There is a percentage of humansand I'm looking for it.
And I'm wonderingwho these evil people are. 3%.
(06:20):
No, it's not 3%.
It's.
I'm looking for
drinking and nonalcoholic drinks.
Yeah.
So 17%say it's not acceptable in any medium.
53% say it's acceptable in any meeting.
And 22 say only informal meetings.
Yeah.
The Geneva Convention sayspeople are allowed hydration.
(06:41):
Right.
Like I remember looking atthis would be like,
I don't think I have ever beenbothered by somebody taking a drink ever.
I can understandnot wanting to be on a meeting
and it's not a happy hour and like,they're clearly drinking a beer.
Like, that's a problem.
I get that.
But like, I have a soda with me
all the timeand I drink it in meetings all the time.
(07:04):
And I never thought about itbeing a problem until I saw that.
Well, until we hold the intervention.
Well, you know,
it could be worse.
So, you know, if we look at it, it's
not really surprising what people thinkis acceptable and unacceptable.
I suppose.
(07:27):
It gets interesting around
formal and informal meetings.
Right.
And I have been on informal meetings.
And again, everything is context, right?
Right. I belong to a writer's group.
We used to regularly have cocktailsduring our meetings.
(07:47):
Yeah.
If we're talking about it, work.
I have had meetings with people overseas
who, you know, are taking the meetingout of the kindness of their heart.
But it's after dinner
and they have a glass of wineor a beer with them as we're having it.
And it doesn't bother me. Right.
(08:09):
First of all, they're the customer.
What am I going to say? Okay.
But also, it's an informal discussion.
And I want
I want a heightened level of informality
because I think you communicatebetter that way.
Right. Yeah.
I mean, I've been on some, you know,virtual happy hour stuff with sorority
(08:32):
sorority meetings or webinars or whatever.
And it's just like, yeah, like it's 9:00.
If I have a cocktail, it's fine.
If they have a cocktail, it's fine.
Now, one of the oneswhich is very personal to me because and
people who regularly viewthis don't know this,
but I wear hats a lot.
(08:52):
I thought about you when I saw the.
Different types of hats,
but you'll notice that nobody on this
podcast has ever seen me wearing a hatbecause I differentiate
between workWayne and Wayne in the rest of my life.
However, the one time Ido wear a hat on a work call
(09:16):
is because I live on the West Coast.
My daystarts way earlier than everybody else's.
And if somebody'snot necessarily a client,
but if somebody on our teamor somebody like that
calls a meeting for 9:00 Eastern
time, there is a pretty good chance
(09:36):
I am not going to be showeredand presentable.
Right.
And so I can throw on a shirtthat's not a big deal,
but all off and put on a baseball capjust so I don't look like Albert Einstein.
Well, I thought it was interesting, too,when I was seeing that, because, you know,
we had a team member
(09:57):
that she wore hats frequentlyand that was just part of her style.
That was just how she was.
And I was never bothered by it.
When I would see out,it was usually a wow, like that.
That's cool hat.
I hadn't seen or wear that one beforeor something like that.
So I definitely found it interesting
it being on this because it is an issue.
(10:19):
Most people who wear hats do it as a cheapattempt at branding and difference.
Yeah, it's just myself included. Right.
So that
particularperson that was part of her wacky.
Yeah, That was her.
Laid back style and it was great.
One of the things that is important,
(10:39):
if you're going to do that, though,and baseball caps are a problem for this,
is they affect the lighting over your eyesand very often
make it hard for people to see your eyes.
And that can be a problem.
Right. And I can totally see that right.
Now where things get ugly
(10:59):
as we look at that
is generationally. Yes.
What people find acceptableand what they don't.
I used to think I was pretty cool.
And and I do
differentiate between formaland informal meetings.
(11:20):
Right.
And since extremely formalhas never been my style.
I'm fairly relaxed
about some things,sometimes more than I should be.
And I am a child of my generation.
Right. Okay, So give us an example.
I'm 62 years old, right?
(11:42):
I'm lookingat where there's a huge difference
in what's acceptableand what's unacceptable.
You know, walking around the room
during the meeting.
Right.
There is no reason not to do that.
I'm when I'm in the conference room,
(12:03):
I very often because my jointsache and stuff and I have
the attention span of an Irish setter,so I have to burn off energy.
So I'll stand and moveto the back of the room. Right.
Stand against the back wall or somethingwhile the meeting is going on.
I tend not to do that on virtual meetings,
(12:23):
but I think that's largely a function
of my camera setup.
Right.
I'm on camera most of the time.
If it's a telephone call, I'll walk down.
There arethere are ruts in our carpet from where
I pace and walkduring a comp during a telephone call.
(12:44):
Right.
But generally
speaking, I'm a little more particularly
if it's a camera meeting,I'm a little more traditional.
Like now.
I'll sit there like a good boy and do it.
Yeah, I do it too.
And I have been on meetings
or even streams that I watchwhere like, people have gotten up.
(13:06):
And I think for methe issue is less that they've gotten up.
It's that their mic is set up for that.
And so now they're talking,I can't hear you.
You know what's worse?
I just realizedwhen I want to throttle the person.
Okay.
Not that I would.
Because you're virtual, so you're.
Actually laying hands on anotherhuman being is wrong.
(13:28):
It's okay to want to just don't do it
that way.
But the big one for
me and it's because I never do this, is I,
I don't do face time or meetings,
especially work meetings on my phone.
(13:49):
When I'm having a conversation,a webcam conversation
with they're on their phoneand they're walking,
and it's like
being on the deck of the Titanic.
Like, it's super distracting.
Well, not only that, but, like, okay, I'm.
Somebody gets motion sick, really easy.
And still,I literally cannot watch people do that.
(14:13):
Like, I know it's a thing.
And we've we've had people on our own teamthat have done that occasionally.
And I'm just like,I literally have to hide your camera
because otherwise I'm a puke all over the.
Yeah.
I am surprised thatthat wasn't mentioned in this list.
Yeah.
I mean, it was I don't know, you know,
(14:35):
the problem with surveys is
they people answer the questionthat you ask.
Right. Right.
Nobody says, by the way.
Yeah. This drives me crazy, too.
I think the biggest one
and this is true of the workplacein general, which gets
(14:55):
generational conflictis what you're wearing on your call.
Right.
Yeah. So.
So is it okay to wear your pajamas,you know?
Do you wear what you sleepin on a zoom meeting?
And, you know,I sleep naked, so the answer is no.
(15:17):
Thank you.
Welcome to another editionof too much information.
Like, unplug my headphones about.
Do not need to know. But.
But it drives me crazy.
My daughter wears pajamas.
24 seven.
She goes to the grocery store in a onesie.
(15:38):
No. It drives me insane.
Well, she's about a yearyounger than me. Yes.
Okay.
See, I was also the weird person,and I will confess, I'm weird
that I wouldn'tgo to college classes in pajamas,
and I felt like it was very respectfulor disrespectful When.
Why would somebody.
Go to college classes in pajamas?
Why would you leave your dorm room?
(16:01):
We had 8 a.m.
classesand I was like the only one in jeans.
I Yeah.
But now you're an old soul. That is true.
So, you know, I can appreciate that.
That's. That's why I adore you.
But it's not.
But, Jim, is there, like,an obvious example?
Correct.
Right. Right.
(16:23):
But what do you wear on a call?
And again, context matters.
Right. Right.
If I'm working from homeand because I'm always working from home
and you have a questionand we have to get on a zoom or
whatever, call real quick.
If I'm in my gym shorts,you know, if I'm not dressed
(16:45):
100% professionally,it doesn't matter because it's you and me.
It's going to be a five minuteconversation and we're out. Yep.
If I'm in front of a customer, a.
Totally different ballgame.
You know, from the hips up,
I need to be dressed like an adult.
Right.
I have worn a shirt, tie and cargo shorts.
(17:07):
I have done that more than once.
That's okay.
The customer doesn't see it. Yeah.
I mean, I've occasionally donethat where I've had yoga pants and, like,
something really nice or therewhen it's really cold in my office.
I have one of those like, Snuggie blanket
things that,I mean, like I it's, it's Navy blue.
(17:28):
I put on it.
I look like Cookie Monster.
Like it's a thing, but it's super warm.
But you better believe if I'm sitting hereand working with it on
and you or Kevin or somebody else is like,Hey, we have a meeting real quick.
It's Hey, can you give me a second?
And I will remove thatbecause I do have standards.
Yeah.
And I think that goesto a larger conversation which is worth
(17:51):
having someday about formalityor informality in the workplace.
Right.
I was working with 45 h.r.
People at a client yesterday,
and we were talking about
what are the things that they'redealing with and dress code
(18:14):
and a appropriate and inappropriate
clothing in the workplace
has bloomed as a problem.
Yeah, I've seen it in sorority meetingssometimes, too.
And i'm likethis is supposed to be business wear,
and you have a denim skirt on.
Like,we would have set them home if it was
(18:36):
when I was in, but it was like, Well,we can't say that now.
Yeah, it's interesting.
I just go back to what somebody told me,just post-COVID
when people were coming backand she goes, They've gone feral.
Right.
Like there used to bebecause the workplace
(18:57):
was I mean, it was largely homogenous.
But even if it wasn't homogenousdemographically,
there were just codesand the way things were done
and they were the waythings have been done for 100 years.
And you had work clothesand you had plain clothes.
Right, Right.
It's like going to school.
I had school clothesand plain clothes. They weren't the same.
(19:19):
And when we worked from
home, the it wasn't just that you're home.
You can wear whatever the heck you want,
but the social pressureabout what you wore went down.
So even now, men
who wear suits to the officerarely wear a tie.
Yeah, like they'll wear a jacket,button down shirt.
(19:43):
I mean, they'll look.They still look nice.
But they're not wearing, you know,the double Windsor at their throat.
And I think that
what that does and this gets backto the Spider-Man paradox, right?
With great power comes greatresponsibility is
just because you can dress a certain way
(20:03):
or act a certain wayor get away with doing something
online that you can't or wouldn't
do in the office doesn't mean you should.
Right.
I mean, there's still a level of respect,both for yourself and for whomever
you're on the call with.
And, you know, yes,you are a grown person.
(20:24):
Yes. You can make your own choices.
You know, it's the whole thing aboutdo you get dressed
in work,appropriate attire in the morning.
Right.
Even when nobody'sgoing to see you. Right.
There is evidence psychologicallythat it affects how you think
and how you workin your level of professionalism.
(20:44):
And there are plenty of people who say,shut up, old man, my onesie is fine
and it doesn't affect the outcome of my
spreadsheet.
Right.
Like, I know some peoplethat they feel like even when they're
working from home, I'm going to wear shoesbecause for them, like even just having,
you know, whatever they're wearing,having shoes is the thing that helps them
(21:08):
be productive.I am not one of those people.
I will admit I'm barefoot right nowand have a blanket on my lap,
but I'm still appropriately dressed.
And so senior notes.
Send your notes to Wilma Flintstone here.
Right.
But like I would have been evenwithout this podcast,
because that's just I'm just a.
(21:30):
From the house down.
It's the Wild West.
You could do whatever you wantfrom the bellybutton up.
You better look like you're working.
A couple of things.
We are way past time and we have hadan inordinate amount of fun, and
I think there are some important thingsto think about this right?
(21:53):
Where do the generational differences?
Right.
If I'm going to coach somebodyabout their appearance or their demeanor.
Am I doing itbecause it's a valid business reason?
Am I doing it because I am an old man?
Right? Right.
That is a conversation worth having
(22:14):
when it's you and I talking.
The level of formality is much lowerthan when I'm talking to a client.
And it should be right. Right.
If you are inappropriately informal
in a important business meeting.
Right. The VP is on the call.
(22:35):
Yeah.
Your AC DC T-shirtmay not be the best choice,
but again, it's incumbent on us.
Yes, the rules are changing.
Yes, they are more flexiblethan they ever were.
And what is the minimumprofessional standard
in your industry, on your team,in your organization?
(22:58):
Absolutely.
And those are the thingswe need to think about.
Look at me wrapping all this up,trying real hard to sound like
we've had a professional discussion
instead of venting,which we've largely been discussed.
And that being said,if you would like to know how to be
more professional in your meetingsand remote work, you can check out
(23:19):
our long distanceleadership series at Kevin Ikenberry, dot
com slash LDL s.
Thank you for listeningto the long work life
for shownotestranscripts and other resources.
Make sure to visit long distancework dot com.
If you haven't yet,subscribe to the podcast
so you won't miss any future episodes.
And while you're there,be sure to like in review.
This helps us know what you loveabout our show.
(23:42):
Feel free to contact us via email orLinkedIn with the links in our show notes
and let us know you listen to this episodeor even suggest topic for Wayne
and I to tackle any future episodeswe would love.
And tell us.
Tell us your meeting. Yes. Are we right?
Are we wrong?
Am I a grungy, grumpy old manyelling at clouds, or do I have a point?
Am I just an old soul?
(24:03):
Don't know how to actat 32 inches your shoes.
Darn it.
I might slip.
Or sometimes
when my feet are cool,
thick you for joining us, everybody.
And as Wayne likes to say,don't let the weasels get you down.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.