April 22, 2024 • 29 mins
In their first Ask Me Anything episode, Ed and Alvaro answer the burning question: what is the best vibration analysis setup? (Here's a hint: it doesn't involve a broomstick anymore.) They also cover how to convince the boss to adopt new technology.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hi there.
I'm Ed Ballina.
And I'm Alvaro Cuba.
Good morning.
Good afternoon.
Good night.
Wherever you are listening to us.
Whatever time zone you're in.
So, uh, Ed and Alvaro, um, I always gettempted to say the Clacket brothers, cause
that used to be an NPR show of two carbuffs.
We're not the Clacket brothers, but we'rekind of manufacturing, uh, folks that, um,
(00:24):
you know, want to join you and, uh,
Maybe have the opportunity to answersome of your questions.
Can't always guarantee the right answers,but we will give you an answer.
Right, Alvaro?
That's for sure.
And we were discussing with Ed prior tothe show, the importance of this "ask me a
(00:45):
question."
We wish we would have that in our alltimes.
We're, just sometimes you want an externalperspective.
And you just throw it out.
As Ed says, we always have an answer, notalways the correct one.
(01:05):
And some will be a laugh, but yeah,we'll, we'll do it.
And the show really gets interesting if itbrings your input and the ideas that you
are experiencing or the things that youwant to know.
(01:27):
Or things we just want to chat.
This is a meetup, very casual.
And that's the idea.
So please send us your questions, yourjokes.
We can tell that your jokes are on thepodcast and anything that's crossed your
minds.
(01:49):
Yeah.
We want to make this fun.
We want to make it interactive.
And it's really about you, right?
Stories.
Think of us as two
manufacturing buddies that are sitting atthe coffee shop after, you know, a hard
day in the plant and, you know, maybe youjust joined manufacturing a few years ago
and you want to tap a little bit ofexperience that we've gathered over our
(02:12):
decades in manufacturing for some ideas.
I kind of compare this to whenever youhave a chance to go to another
manufacturing plant.
Every single time I've walked into afacility, I learned something new.
That every facility has a little trickthat they're really good at.
And sometimes that information doesn't getshared widely, right?
This is your opportunity.
(02:33):
Let's share this knowledge that'll makemanufacturing a much more interesting
place for all of us.
So welcome to the Manufacture MeetupPodcast, the show where we kick back on
our downtime and get real about efficiencyon the plant floor.
(03:03):
So a little bit about our backgrounds,right?
And if you want more details, refer to ourprevious podcast where Alvaro and I go
into a little bit more information aboutour backgrounds.
But I've spent roughly 40 years inmanufacturing for three CPG companies,
Procter & Gamble, Scott Paper, both papermaking, I held paper making roles there.
(03:28):
And then joined Pepsi in 95, worked therefor 25
five years, retired.
And since I wanted more, I came back outof retirement to do some more consulting
work for the beverage industry and kickedoff a business doing filler valve rebuilds
with my sons at the beginning of the year.
So it's been busy.
And I'm going to turn it over to my partnerin crime here, Alvaro Cuba, because he has
(03:51):
an even more fascinating background than Ido, if that's possible.
No, no, no, no equally.
Fascinating background.
Anyone in manufacturing, I'm sure hasplenty and plenty to share and discuss and
all that.
But we are lucky, my friend, no?
We are lucky to have this experience inmanufacturing.
(04:13):
And I can tell you that because part of mybackground has been diversity.
I've been in manufacturing, but I've alsobeen in logistics, in sales, marketing,
GM.
and had the opportunity, thanks tomanufacturing, to work in six countries
and well, lived in six countries and workin many more and also in different
(04:40):
industries.
And all thank you to manufacturing, whichis where I started.
So as Ed says it's plenty ofopportunity.
If you are open, you are curious and youput yourself in,
it's a wonderful career and, um, yeah, wewant, uh, uh, to share it with you, our
(05:04):
experiences and our thoughts.
So let's go into it.
Uh, let's say you found a technology thatyou think will help in the plant.
How would you sell the idea to seniorleadership?
So I will say two or three things thatcome to my mind is one:
(05:26):
If it's really helpful in the plant, forsure you will have data.
It's important.
The second one is the company has itsstrategy and the senior leaders are
point to that strategy.
So when you want that and that's sometimesdifferent than the plant, no, in the
(05:52):
plant, probably you are talking about GE.
or safety or quality.
Senior management is probably talkingabout more sales or bottom line or cash
flow.
No.
So translate your results and the benefitsinto what senior management is looking
(06:21):
after or is working for.
No.
Then,
it's going to be much easier for them tounderstand the impact in the business, not
only in the plant, but in the business.
And the third will be hard data, but alsotechnology today brings benefits in many
(06:47):
levels.
And Ed and I always talk about this,you can get
OEE, but for sure you are impacting safetyand you are impacting quality and you can
impact the morale.
So bring also those elements into thediscussion with senior management because
(07:09):
they normally are seeing the big pictureand the impacts in people, in business, in
customers, consumers and across.
Ed, your thoughts?
No, you're spot on.
I mean, the benefits that you get fromemploying technology to leverage your
(07:31):
results are very widespread, right?
Even when it comes down to morale of theworkplace, if you have less failures,
right, there's less cleanup, there's lessinherent danger in exposing folks to, you
know, sharp objects, etc.
So it really does help leverage across thewhole supply chain and
(07:51):
one key topic these days, we all want tobe better when it comes to sustainability,
right?
And carbon footprint, et cetera.
And sometimes, frankly, I struggle becauseI see companies spending a lot of time and
energy, as well they should, right?
On pinpoint sustainability solutions,which are great, solar, you know, cogen,
(08:13):
et cetera, leak detection.
But in some cases, I wonder if we wouldn'tget a bigger return on our sustainability
efforts if we put
some of those resources to work on gettingour lines to run better.
Because we all know a good running linegenerates less waste.
It uses a lot less electricity andwhatever other utilities you use.
(08:33):
So that was a quick aside.
But specific to this topic, the only thingthat the two things that I would add one
is don't get enamored with the technology,right?
I had a conversation with a technologycompany and they were asking me,
I was, had been their customer.
And so what do we need to do different?
(08:53):
I said, listen, you're a bunch of really,really capable and smart folks, but you're
trying to explain to me what happens inyour black box when you gather the data
and how you put that to different places.
At the end of the day, most of us areintellectually curious, so we want to hear
and we're interested.
But after about two minutes of that, I'mlike, I got it.
Not real deep, but enough to understand.
(09:16):
Show me what you did for me.
Right.
So.
Show me how that piece of equipment thatyou were monitoring, right?
Show me the money.
Show me the money.
Absolutely.
And the higher you go up the ladder,right?
The more is, oh, well, we're going toprevent this motor from failing.
Well, that's great.
So you got it.
How much did we save?
(09:36):
Well, the motor is probably $7,000, youknow, five hours of downtime.
I mean, at the higher levels, they, theydon't care what's in the black box.
They kind of do, but they don't.
They need enough to know how to trust it,but then show me how it really impacts.
And one of the most powerfuldemonstrations that I had, I had somebody
(09:57):
trying to sell me some predictivetechnology and I invited them to come to
one of our plants and I walked them outinto our ammonia compressor area, which is
some of the biggest equipment that wehave.
And I use, I told them, use your tool.
Tell me how these motors are running.
Three of the motors, perfect.
Not an issue.
On the fourth one, they detected
an anomaly that came back 24 hours lateras a bearing on the non-drive side of the
(10:22):
motor that was starting to fail.
Sure enough, a week and a half later, whenwe took the motor apart, we found cracked
in a race.
The bearing would have given out an extraperiod of time, right?
When I saw that I was sold.
I was like, understand your technologyenough to get a sense of why it works,
right?
And now you actually showed me proof ofconcept in the real world that
(10:45):
you just, you probably just saved me 20grand, right?
Um, so that, that put together really,really helps sell the story.
I think most people now are tech-savvyenough and open to new technology that
what they don't want to wind up with isserial number one, right?
On your plans.
A lot of us have experienced that andthat's not fun.
(11:06):
You don't want to be somebody's R & Dproject, but if the technology's got legs
and is well established, absolutely.
Um, it's a great sell.
Yeah.
And to, and to its example, that's themoney.
And if it's a constrained line, that's Salesbecause that's volume, that's, uh,
(11:28):
inventory.
No.
And, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm sure it, it, italso impacts quality.
So go for, go for the big picture and gofor exactly what they are looking for,
which is
related to the strategy of the company inthat moment.
We were talking with Ed, for instance,in pandemic, everything was about cases
(11:54):
out the door.
Right.
Now things are changing.
Things are more about efficiencies andproductivities, no?
Or strategies to bring the production
Ed was we were discussing about the bridgethat collapsed in Baltimore and the huge
(12:20):
impact in supply chain.
So.
Yeah, it's kind of interesting as youmentioned the bridge, right?
If you think about it over the lastseveral months, we have had a number of
supply chain disruptions, right?
Past COVID, everybody thought, okay, we'regood now.
Well, we know what's going on out in theMiddle East, right?
And the impact it's having on
(12:41):
ship traffic through Suez Canal, etcetera.
And now we have this bridge situation inBaltimore.
I mean, but these things happen, right?
And the supply chain has to be resilientenough, you know, to deal with those.
Five or six years ago, frankly, I lookedat a number of AI IoT companies and there
(13:03):
was a lot of vaporware folks.
It was like, oh, we can gather every pieceof information from every sensor you have
on your line.
And we can show it to you.
And I sat in a presentation and what theyshowed me were some fancy Excel graphs.
And I was like, not quite what I had inmind.
And I have to use the analogy of, of, ofthe mama bird, right?
(13:27):
I said, Hey, think, think about me as ababy bird.
Right?
You can't, if you're the mama bird, youcan't give me a full worm for me to eat.
Right?
You need to break, get a worm,
I hate to be too graphic, but,
you need to chew it up and make itdigestible for me, the baby bird.
So as a manufacturing folk, don't give methe whole worm.
You need to chew it.
More the daddy bird.
(13:48):
Yes.
You're right.
You're right.
You always see the mama bird.
It doesn't go ahead.
But yeah, in some cases, it's the daddybird too.
And good you are talking about technology,because that is exactly the second
question.
A. Traditional
Vibration analysis, B, AI-driven tech, C,combination of both, or something else?
(14:16):
Floor is, yours.
So, what does it say in the show?
So what's behind door number three?
So, I...
Very precise question.
Very precise, yes.
I was extremely fortunate that when Iworked in the paper industry, I was
exposed to vibration analysis.
I ran...
(14:36):
a product supply system composed of papermachines and converting assets.
And in this facility, we have threevibration techs.
These folks had retired from the USsubmarine service where a lot of this
vibration stuff was born because a loudsub or a broken down sub is usually a dead
(14:57):
sub.
So they pioneered the use of vibrationanalysis, which essentially is measuring
the amount of force
that a piece of equipment is being exposedto over a certain frequency, so how much
movement, so amplitude, and alsodisplacement and I'd love these guys. They
(15:17):
would come in and they would say hey Ed, wejust checked, you know, tow roll number two in
your paper machine, you've got a crack thatthey would be able to tell here's what we
think the problem is, here's the vibrationspectrum, it happens at this frequency, it
correlates with the, anyway.
I trusted those guys.
They came into my office and said, Hey,you got a problem?
(15:38):
I'm shutting down.
I worked for a person at that time thatdid not believe in vibration analysis.
Right.
And I was getting ready to shut down ourpaper machine, uh, to preemptively change
out a roll.
This guy was my boss, came out.
He said, what are you doing?
I said, I'm getting ready to shut down.
We're going to take this out.
He goes, Oh, hold on.
I've had a maintenance,
I was a maintenance guy for a long time.
I kid you not.
(15:58):
This man ran to the paper machine, put hishand on the bearing block and said, Oh,
We're not shutting down.
This will run for weeks.
I said, are you sure we have the data?
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Nine o 'clock that night, I got the phonecall.
We're down.
The bearing went out.
So I went into the plant and at abouteight o 'clock the next morning, we're
starting up and my boss comes out andsays, what's going on?
(16:21):
How come we were down?
And despite my better judgment, I couldn'thelp myself.
I said to him, you know, that bearing thatyou put your hands on yesterday and told
me it's going to run for months?
Yeah.
8:30 at night, I got a phone call in myhouse that they had ripped apart and it
took $50,000 worth of fabric with it.
And he just looked at me, turned aroundand walked away.
(16:42):
So believer in vibration analysis, right?
And when I came into the bottlingindustry, I saw the opportunity, but we
typically couldn't have a dedicatedvibration analyst in our plans.
And vibration analysis is somethingthat...
if you don't do it and if you're not aprofessional in it, it's almost impossible
(17:04):
to make sense out of the data you get.
So long way to say there is a marriagebetween the traditional science of
vibration analysis with AI and theInternet of Things, as we want to call it.
So for me, the perfect solution was when Ifound a company that could
(17:28):
analyze, gather my vibration data, right,without any interaction from me, send that
information into an AI engine that wouldbe able to analyze, compare the equipment
to its history, compare equipment totheoretical vibration, you know, data as
(17:48):
well as like pieces of equipment.
That was that that that was the big deal.
And then that actually got backed up by avibration.
expert and engineer that would make surethat the AI engine, you know, responded
correctly.
And I fell in love with that opportunitybecause I don't need to hire full -time
(18:08):
vibration analysts.
I have a service that can provide that forme.
Cause going back to the, you know, myanswer on the previous question, I don't
really care what goes on inside the littlebox.
They stick on my piece of equipment and Idon't know enough to analyze the vibration
spectrum.
But somebody can and somebody can thenprovide me with the information I need to
fix that piece of equipment and correct anissue before breaks or failure.
(18:32):
So yes, if you're large enough and youwant to have a traditional vibration
analyst or technician on your staff, gofor it, right?
Hugely effective.
You have a person that can take thosereadings for you on an ongoing basis.
Very programmatic.
Most facilities don't have thatcapability.
And here is where remote sensing and an AIengine backed by human beings makes the
(19:00):
difference.
There are companies out there that willsell you a vibration sensor, right?
That you put on a piece of equipment andit'll alarm based on some algorithm.
I'm sorry, I've seen these things inindustry and they are the equivalent of
the check engine light on your car.
So when that goes off,
the filler operator or the packer operatormay go, Oh, I got to shut down.
(19:23):
I have an alarm, but that's as far as itgoes.
Now you're left to wonder what was it?
Was it real?
What was the root cause?
Was it, you know, what's going on here?
Uh, so those kind of check engine lights,um, really are not very efficient and
usually get ripped out in short period oftime, many times because they provide a lot
of false alarms and you know,
(19:45):
we're like the village after the boy crieswolf about the second time and it's not
real.
We're done with it.
We're like, we have no time for that kindof, you know, um, distraction.
So, um, couple it together the technologyfirst of all, vibration technology, amazingly
mature, right?
The stuff goes back to the fifties, if notearlier.
Um, but now coupled with AI.
(20:09):
Perfect.
I would, I would, uh, echo what Ed issaying.
No.
His example with his boss from touching tomeasuring, it was one leapfrog in that
vibration and machine health.
I think we are living now the nextleapfrog.
(20:31):
Right.
No, it's from sensoring to this fullyautomatic sensors, AI, because
the difference is not only that now thetechnology can give you 99% accuracy.
Right.
Where, no, on the failure or not failure,but it also tells you when, no, artificial
(20:58):
intelligence, which is the nextgeneration.
Right.
Is learning from what is happening.
And based on that is, um, forecasting whatis going to happen.
The value of that for a maintenance teamor for a production team is huge, not
(21:21):
because it's not only saying it's notfailing.
You don't need to change.
It's saying the next three weeks will nothappen.
And most probably you need to prepare forthe fourth week to do it.
But next week I'll give you an update.
And then you can plan and
(21:42):
planning is money, planning is calm on thefloor.
There is many things that come with that.
So, and as Ed said it's not rocketscience, it's something you can do quickly
and put it in your plan.
So don't be afraid.
Just go for it.
(22:02):
Um, it's a leap frog.
Yep.
I, um, as you were talking abouttechnology, I just have to share with you.
My first exposure to vibration analysis,right?
Happened in a paper mill in Mehoopany,Pennsylvania, when I was a maintenance
manager and I went out just doing the jobI'm learning.
I went out to do a round, you know, withmy maintenance tech, right?
(22:25):
So for those of you that are, that are inmanufacturing, you know what this is, but,
uh, essentially when you have these largeprocesses, you assign your maintenance
technicians to walk a prescribed routeevery, maybe it's once a week, maybe it's
every two or three days, right?
where they monitor these key pieces ofwith his box and his sensor.
(22:48):
Well, this guy, it wasn't quite thatperfected back then because it was
vibration analysis right now.
Imagine a paper mill, very loud place.
Everybody wears headphones, preserve yourhearing.
Okay.
So I'm walking out with them.
We walk up to the first motor and he's gota broomstick with him.
I'm like, that's kind of interesting.
He goes up and he places one end of thebroomstick, right?
(23:11):
On the bearing housing and the other endof the broomstick on his, on his head, on
his, his muffs.
I'm like, what?
He goes, yeah, you can hear.
And so he goes, yeah, you try it.
Literally you can, you can take abroomstick, put it on a bearing housing,
put it on your ear muffs and you can hearhow that equipment is running.
Right.
(23:31):
And you can actually hear a bearing noiseif it starts going bad.
This person did this three times a week,right?
Do you think they had a database in theirhead of what normal looks like?
And sounds like? Absolutely.
They may not have been a vibration expert,but that man, Bob Bauer, I still remember
him today, knew what that bearing soundedlike when it was running well.
(23:53):
So, yeah, fun stuff.
Okay, one bonus question for today.
And the question was, how are you using
mobile devices today on the plant floor.
So you just show it at, and you, youmentioned to me one great example the
(24:13):
other day when you visit a plant and youtake the picture.
Oh, yes.
Uh, so I, um, uh, one of the, one of theservices I offer is called two and a half.
It's a deep dive.
So I will go into a plant, uh, a bottlingline, let's say, and I'll spend two and a
half days on the floor.
Essentially observing the operation,looking for anomalies or issues.
(24:35):
And you're out on the floor.
I don't like to carry a lot of stuff withme in a, in food plants.
You're really not supposed to haveanything loose above your waist.
Right.
And you have to have all the proper PPE.
So I take my phone with me.
I use my phone.
I'm a bit of an Apple fan boy.
I use my phone, the notes feature, to writedown what the anomaly is.
So the dead plate on that depalletizeris set way too high.
(24:58):
It is causing dropped bottles.
And then I will take a picture or a videoand they form my report, right?
I do a summary, um, kind of top line, butthen I provide those notes with pictures
and videos.
And let me tell you, they are, uh,incredibly convincing when I'm trying to
show somebody how they're releasingpressure from a container after filling
(25:22):
too abruptly and it's causing agitation,
I can describe it, but if I can show thema video.
of those of you in bottling will know whata sniff rail is, right?
It's how you relieve pressure off acontainer after filling.
If I show them their sniff rail explodingevery time a container comes by because
they're releasing the pressure too fast, Idon't have to say much of anything else.
(25:44):
They're like, oh my God, look at all thatproduct that we're losing.
So yes, this is an amazing tool.
I just can't believe all the uses thishas.
There is plenty of ways to use the mobiles thesedays.
I'll just leave you with two.
(26:05):
One, training.
You can buddy someone with the mobile.
You can share videos.
You can talk live.
And the other is nowadays you go and seealerts.
(26:27):
Actions come straight to your mobile.
You don't need to be running around.
No, everything is in one.
You don't need to go look five screens andit comes when you need it because it's the
time to react.
So plenty of ways to use the mobiles thesedays.
(26:54):
And I'm sure as
new technology comes, but also the new jobforce that is coming.
They are very tech savvy and are geniuswith the mobiles.
They are going to bring, um, much moreways to be efficient and effective in the,
(27:16):
in the lines in the plants.
Yeah, I agree.
I, I never thought that I would beFaceTiming somebody as they're showing me
the transfer from their filler.
Right.
I mean, something as simple as that,right?
Uh, the slow motion capability on ourphones to detect tripping points.
It's, it's COVID times.
(27:36):
It's remember in COVID times, everyone wasvideoing and mentioning and helping each
other.
So plenty of ways guys.
Thank you for participating to watchingus.
Uh, it's great to have the meet up.
But remember, a meetup is only valid ifall the friends come around and we start
(28:01):
bantering and discussing what happened tous in the shop floor that day.
So please do that.
Come with what happened to you that dayand share with us and we'll discuss.
So if you liked it and you are in iTunes,please write us a comment and like us if
(28:23):
you are in YouTube.
And, um, it has been a pleasure.
Oh, no.
Terrific.
Um, we, uh, this is for you by the way,also send us like funny stories, right?
Because I don't know, you know, Alvaro andjokes, manufacturing jokes, manufacturing
jokes, Alvaro and I, we're going to go onthe road and do like some, you know, some,
(28:49):
some mic, uh, auditions, you know, withstandup comedy, but
we couldn't, we tried that and we failed.
So we need your help to make us a littlemore funny.
But anyway, if you've enjoyed thisepisode, please follow us, subscribe, give
us a like.
Uh, if you're in YouTube, leave us areview.
If you're listening on iTunes, uh, sharethe podcast with your friends.
Again, the more the merrier, right?
(29:11):
Um, eventually Alvaro and I, believe it ornot, we'll run out of material.
There's only so much that we can rememberfrom the last 40 years.
Okay.
So, uh, anyway.
Look forward to seeing you next time andask us anything.
Yes.
See you guys.
Hi there.
I'm Ed Ballina.
And I'm Alvaro Cuba.
Good morning.
Good afternoon.
Good night.
Wherever you are listening to us.
Whatever time zone you're in.
So, uh, Ed and Alvaro, um, I always gettempted to say the Clacket brothers, cause
that used to be an NPR show of two carbuffs.
We're not the Clacket brothers, but we'rekind of manufacturing, uh, folks that, um,
(00:24):
you know, want to join you and, uh,
Maybe have the opportunity to answersome of your questions.
Can't always guarantee the right answers,but we will give you an answer.
Right, Alvaro?
That's for sure.
And we were discussing with Ed prior tothe show, the importance of this "ask me a
(00:45):
question."
We wish we would have that in our alltimes.
We're, just sometimes you want an externalperspective.
And you just throw it out.
As Ed says, we always have an answer, notalways the correct one.
(01:05):
And some will be a laugh, but yeah,we'll, we'll do it.
And the show really gets interesting if itbrings your input and the ideas that you
are experiencing or the things that youwant to know.
(01:27):
Or things we just want to chat.
This is a meetup, very casual.
And that's the idea.
So please send us your questions, yourjokes.
We can tell that your jokes are on thepodcast and anything that's crossed your
minds.
(01:49):
Yeah.
We want to make this fun.
We want to make it interactive.
And it's really about you, right?
Stories.
Think of us as two
manufacturing buddies that are sitting atthe coffee shop after, you know, a hard
day in the plant and, you know, maybe youjust joined manufacturing a few years ago
and you want to tap a little bit ofexperience that we've gathered over our
(02:12):
decades in manufacturing for some ideas.
I kind of compare this to whenever youhave a chance to go to another
manufacturing plant.
Every single time I've walked into afacility, I learned something new.
That every facility has a little trickthat they're really good at.
And sometimes that information doesn't getshared widely, right?
This is your opportunity.
(02:33):
Let's share this knowledge that'll makemanufacturing a much more interesting
place for all of us.
So welcome to the Manufacture MeetupPodcast, the show where we kick back on
our downtime and get real about efficiencyon the plant floor.
(03:03):
So a little bit about our backgrounds,right?
And if you want more details, refer to ourprevious podcast where Alvaro and I go
into a little bit more information aboutour backgrounds.
But I've spent roughly 40 years inmanufacturing for three CPG companies,
Procter & Gamble, Scott Paper, both papermaking, I held paper making roles there.
(03:28):
And then joined Pepsi in 95, worked therefor 25
five years, retired.
And since I wanted more, I came back outof retirement to do some more consulting
work for the beverage industry and kickedoff a business doing filler valve rebuilds
with my sons at the beginning of the year.
So it's been busy.
And I'm going to turn it over to my partnerin crime here, Alvaro Cuba, because he has
(03:51):
an even more fascinating background than Ido, if that's possible.
No, no, no, no equally.
Fascinating background.
Anyone in manufacturing, I'm sure hasplenty and plenty to share and discuss and
all that.
But we are lucky, my friend, no?
We are lucky to have this experience inmanufacturing.
(04:13):
And I can tell you that because part of mybackground has been diversity.
I've been in manufacturing, but I've alsobeen in logistics, in sales, marketing,
GM.
and had the opportunity, thanks tomanufacturing, to work in six countries
and well, lived in six countries and workin many more and also in different
(04:40):
industries.
And all thank you to manufacturing, whichis where I started.
So as Ed says it's plenty ofopportunity.
If you are open, you are curious and youput yourself in,
it's a wonderful career and, um, yeah, wewant, uh, uh, to share it with you, our
(05:04):
experiences and our thoughts.
So let's go into it.
Uh, let's say you found a technology thatyou think will help in the plant.
How would you sell the idea to seniorleadership?
So I will say two or three things thatcome to my mind is one:
(05:26):
If it's really helpful in the plant, forsure you will have data.
It's important.
The second one is the company has itsstrategy and the senior leaders are
point to that strategy.
So when you want that and that's sometimesdifferent than the plant, no, in the
(05:52):
plant, probably you are talking about GE.
or safety or quality.
Senior management is probably talkingabout more sales or bottom line or cash
flow.
No.
So translate your results and the benefitsinto what senior management is looking
(06:21):
after or is working for.
No.
Then,
it's going to be much easier for them tounderstand the impact in the business, not
only in the plant, but in the business.
And the third will be hard data, but alsotechnology today brings benefits in many
(06:47):
levels.
And Ed and I always talk about this,you can get
OEE, but for sure you are impacting safetyand you are impacting quality and you can
impact the morale.
So bring also those elements into thediscussion with senior management because
(07:09):
they normally are seeing the big pictureand the impacts in people, in business, in
customers, consumers and across.
Ed, your thoughts?
No, you're spot on.
I mean, the benefits that you get fromemploying technology to leverage your
(07:31):
results are very widespread, right?
Even when it comes down to morale of theworkplace, if you have less failures,
right, there's less cleanup, there's lessinherent danger in exposing folks to, you
know, sharp objects, etc.
So it really does help leverage across thewhole supply chain and
(07:51):
one key topic these days, we all want tobe better when it comes to sustainability,
right?
And carbon footprint, et cetera.
And sometimes, frankly, I struggle becauseI see companies spending a lot of time and
energy, as well they should, right?
On pinpoint sustainability solutions,which are great, solar, you know, cogen,
(08:13):
et cetera, leak detection.
But in some cases, I wonder if we wouldn'tget a bigger return on our sustainability
efforts if we put
some of those resources to work on gettingour lines to run better.
Because we all know a good running linegenerates less waste.
It uses a lot less electricity andwhatever other utilities you use.
(08:33):
So that was a quick aside.
But specific to this topic, the only thingthat the two things that I would add one
is don't get enamored with the technology,right?
I had a conversation with a technologycompany and they were asking me,
I was, had been their customer.
And so what do we need to do different?
(08:53):
I said, listen, you're a bunch of really,really capable and smart folks, but you're
trying to explain to me what happens inyour black box when you gather the data
and how you put that to different places.
At the end of the day, most of us areintellectually curious, so we want to hear
and we're interested.
But after about two minutes of that, I'mlike, I got it.
Not real deep, but enough to understand.
(09:16):
Show me what you did for me.
Right.
So.
Show me how that piece of equipment thatyou were monitoring, right?
Show me the money.
Show me the money.
Absolutely.
And the higher you go up the ladder,right?
The more is, oh, well, we're going toprevent this motor from failing.
Well, that's great.
So you got it.
How much did we save?
(09:36):
Well, the motor is probably $7,000, youknow, five hours of downtime.
I mean, at the higher levels, they, theydon't care what's in the black box.
They kind of do, but they don't.
They need enough to know how to trust it,but then show me how it really impacts.
And one of the most powerfuldemonstrations that I had, I had somebody
(09:57):
trying to sell me some predictivetechnology and I invited them to come to
one of our plants and I walked them outinto our ammonia compressor area, which is
some of the biggest equipment that wehave.
And I use, I told them, use your tool.
Tell me how these motors are running.
Three of the motors, perfect.
Not an issue.
On the fourth one, they detected
an anomaly that came back 24 hours lateras a bearing on the non-drive side of the
(10:22):
motor that was starting to fail.
Sure enough, a week and a half later, whenwe took the motor apart, we found cracked
in a race.
The bearing would have given out an extraperiod of time, right?
When I saw that I was sold.
I was like, understand your technologyenough to get a sense of why it works,
right?
And now you actually showed me proof ofconcept in the real world that
(10:45):
you just, you probably just saved me 20grand, right?
Um, so that, that put together really,really helps sell the story.
I think most people now are tech-savvyenough and open to new technology that
what they don't want to wind up with isserial number one, right?
On your plans.
A lot of us have experienced that andthat's not fun.
(11:06):
You don't want to be somebody's R & Dproject, but if the technology's got legs
and is well established, absolutely.
Um, it's a great sell.
Yeah.
And to, and to its example, that's themoney.
And if it's a constrained line, that's Salesbecause that's volume, that's, uh,
(11:28):
inventory.
No.
And, uh, I'm, I'm, I'm sure it, it, italso impacts quality.
So go for, go for the big picture and gofor exactly what they are looking for,
which is
related to the strategy of the company inthat moment.
We were talking with Ed, for instance,in pandemic, everything was about cases
(11:54):
out the door.
Right.
Now things are changing.
Things are more about efficiencies andproductivities, no?
Or strategies to bring the production
Ed was we were discussing about the bridgethat collapsed in Baltimore and the huge
(12:20):
impact in supply chain.
So.
Yeah, it's kind of interesting as youmentioned the bridge, right?
If you think about it over the lastseveral months, we have had a number of
supply chain disruptions, right?
Past COVID, everybody thought, okay, we'regood now.
Well, we know what's going on out in theMiddle East, right?
And the impact it's having on
(12:41):
ship traffic through Suez Canal, etcetera.
And now we have this bridge situation inBaltimore.
I mean, but these things happen, right?
And the supply chain has to be resilientenough, you know, to deal with those.
Five or six years ago, frankly, I lookedat a number of AI IoT companies and there
(13:03):
was a lot of vaporware folks.
It was like, oh, we can gather every pieceof information from every sensor you have
on your line.
And we can show it to you.
And I sat in a presentation and what theyshowed me were some fancy Excel graphs.
And I was like, not quite what I had inmind.
And I have to use the analogy of, of, ofthe mama bird, right?
(13:27):
I said, Hey, think, think about me as ababy bird.
Right?
You can't, if you're the mama bird, youcan't give me a full worm for me to eat.
Right?
You need to break, get a worm,
I hate to be too graphic, but,
you need to chew it up and make itdigestible for me, the baby bird.
So as a manufacturing folk, don't give methe whole worm.
You need to chew it.
More the daddy bird.
(13:48):
Yes.
You're right.
You're right.
You always see the mama bird.
It doesn't go ahead.
But yeah, in some cases, it's the daddybird too.
And good you are talking about technology,because that is exactly the second
question.
A. Traditional
Vibration analysis, B, AI-driven tech, C,combination of both, or something else?
(14:16):
Floor is, yours.
So, what does it say in the show?
So what's behind door number three?
So, I...
Very precise question.
Very precise, yes.
I was extremely fortunate that when Iworked in the paper industry, I was
exposed to vibration analysis.
I ran...
(14:36):
a product supply system composed of papermachines and converting assets.
And in this facility, we have threevibration techs.
These folks had retired from the USsubmarine service where a lot of this
vibration stuff was born because a loudsub or a broken down sub is usually a dead
(14:57):
sub.
So they pioneered the use of vibrationanalysis, which essentially is measuring
the amount of force
that a piece of equipment is being exposedto over a certain frequency, so how much
movement, so amplitude, and alsodisplacement and I'd love these guys. They
(15:17):
would come in and they would say hey Ed, wejust checked, you know, tow roll number two in
your paper machine, you've got a crack thatthey would be able to tell here's what we
think the problem is, here's the vibrationspectrum, it happens at this frequency, it
correlates with the, anyway.
I trusted those guys.
They came into my office and said, Hey,you got a problem?
(15:38):
I'm shutting down.
I worked for a person at that time thatdid not believe in vibration analysis.
Right.
And I was getting ready to shut down ourpaper machine, uh, to preemptively change
out a roll.
This guy was my boss, came out.
He said, what are you doing?
I said, I'm getting ready to shut down.
We're going to take this out.
He goes, Oh, hold on.
I've had a maintenance,
I was a maintenance guy for a long time.
I kid you not.
(15:58):
This man ran to the paper machine, put hishand on the bearing block and said, Oh,
We're not shutting down.
This will run for weeks.
I said, are you sure we have the data?
Oh yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Nine o 'clock that night, I got the phonecall.
We're down.
The bearing went out.
So I went into the plant and at abouteight o 'clock the next morning, we're
starting up and my boss comes out andsays, what's going on?
(16:21):
How come we were down?
And despite my better judgment, I couldn'thelp myself.
I said to him, you know, that bearing thatyou put your hands on yesterday and told
me it's going to run for months?
Yeah.
8:30 at night, I got a phone call in myhouse that they had ripped apart and it
took $50,000 worth of fabric with it.
And he just looked at me, turned aroundand walked away.
(16:42):
So believer in vibration analysis, right?
And when I came into the bottlingindustry, I saw the opportunity, but we
typically couldn't have a dedicatedvibration analyst in our plans.
And vibration analysis is somethingthat...
if you don't do it and if you're not aprofessional in it, it's almost impossible
(17:04):
to make sense out of the data you get.
So long way to say there is a marriagebetween the traditional science of
vibration analysis with AI and theInternet of Things, as we want to call it.
So for me, the perfect solution was when Ifound a company that could
(17:28):
analyze, gather my vibration data, right,without any interaction from me, send that
information into an AI engine that wouldbe able to analyze, compare the equipment
to its history, compare equipment totheoretical vibration, you know, data as
(17:48):
well as like pieces of equipment.
That was that that that was the big deal.
And then that actually got backed up by avibration.
expert and engineer that would make surethat the AI engine, you know, responded
correctly.
And I fell in love with that opportunitybecause I don't need to hire full -time
(18:08):
vibration analysts.
I have a service that can provide that forme.
Cause going back to the, you know, myanswer on the previous question, I don't
really care what goes on inside the littlebox.
They stick on my piece of equipment and Idon't know enough to analyze the vibration
spectrum.
But somebody can and somebody can thenprovide me with the information I need to
fix that piece of equipment and correct anissue before breaks or failure.
(18:32):
So yes, if you're large enough and youwant to have a traditional vibration
analyst or technician on your staff, gofor it, right?
Hugely effective.
You have a person that can take thosereadings for you on an ongoing basis.
Very programmatic.
Most facilities don't have thatcapability.
And here is where remote sensing and an AIengine backed by human beings makes the
(19:00):
difference.
There are companies out there that willsell you a vibration sensor, right?
That you put on a piece of equipment andit'll alarm based on some algorithm.
I'm sorry, I've seen these things inindustry and they are the equivalent of
the check engine light on your car.
So when that goes off,
the filler operator or the packer operatormay go, Oh, I got to shut down.
(19:23):
I have an alarm, but that's as far as itgoes.
Now you're left to wonder what was it?
Was it real?
What was the root cause?
Was it, you know, what's going on here?
Uh, so those kind of check engine lights,um, really are not very efficient and
usually get ripped out in short period oftime, many times because they provide a lot
of false alarms and you know,
(19:45):
we're like the village after the boy crieswolf about the second time and it's not
real.
We're done with it.
We're like, we have no time for that kindof, you know, um, distraction.
So, um, couple it together the technologyfirst of all, vibration technology, amazingly
mature, right?
The stuff goes back to the fifties, if notearlier.
Um, but now coupled with AI.
(20:09):
Perfect.
I would, I would, uh, echo what Ed issaying.
No.
His example with his boss from touching tomeasuring, it was one leapfrog in that
vibration and machine health.
I think we are living now the nextleapfrog.
(20:31):
Right.
No, it's from sensoring to this fullyautomatic sensors, AI, because
the difference is not only that now thetechnology can give you 99% accuracy.
Right.
Where, no, on the failure or not failure,but it also tells you when, no, artificial
(20:58):
intelligence, which is the nextgeneration.
Right.
Is learning from what is happening.
And based on that is, um, forecasting whatis going to happen.
The value of that for a maintenance teamor for a production team is huge, not
(21:21):
because it's not only saying it's notfailing.
You don't need to change.
It's saying the next three weeks will nothappen.
And most probably you need to prepare forthe fourth week to do it.
But next week I'll give you an update.
And then you can plan and
(21:42):
planning is money, planning is calm on thefloor.
There is many things that come with that.
So, and as Ed said it's not rocketscience, it's something you can do quickly
and put it in your plan.
So don't be afraid.
Just go for it.
(22:02):
Um, it's a leap frog.
Yep.
I, um, as you were talking abouttechnology, I just have to share with you.
My first exposure to vibration analysis,right?
Happened in a paper mill in Mehoopany,Pennsylvania, when I was a maintenance
manager and I went out just doing the jobI'm learning.
I went out to do a round, you know, withmy maintenance tech, right?
(22:25):
So for those of you that are, that are inmanufacturing, you know what this is, but,
uh, essentially when you have these largeprocesses, you assign your maintenance
technicians to walk a prescribed routeevery, maybe it's once a week, maybe it's
every two or three days, right?
where they monitor these key pieces ofwith his box and his sensor.
(22:48):
Well, this guy, it wasn't quite thatperfected back then because it was
vibration analysis right now.
Imagine a paper mill, very loud place.
Everybody wears headphones, preserve yourhearing.
Okay.
So I'm walking out with them.
We walk up to the first motor and he's gota broomstick with him.
I'm like, that's kind of interesting.
He goes up and he places one end of thebroomstick, right?
(23:11):
On the bearing housing and the other endof the broomstick on his, on his head, on
his, his muffs.
I'm like, what?
He goes, yeah, you can hear.
And so he goes, yeah, you try it.
Literally you can, you can take abroomstick, put it on a bearing housing,
put it on your ear muffs and you can hearhow that equipment is running.
Right.
(23:31):
And you can actually hear a bearing noiseif it starts going bad.
This person did this three times a week,right?
Do you think they had a database in theirhead of what normal looks like?
And sounds like? Absolutely.
They may not have been a vibration expert,but that man, Bob Bauer, I still remember
him today, knew what that bearing soundedlike when it was running well.
(23:53):
So, yeah, fun stuff.
Okay, one bonus question for today.
And the question was, how are you using
mobile devices today on the plant floor.
So you just show it at, and you, youmentioned to me one great example the
(24:13):
other day when you visit a plant and youtake the picture.
Oh, yes.
Uh, so I, um, uh, one of the, one of theservices I offer is called two and a half.
It's a deep dive.
So I will go into a plant, uh, a bottlingline, let's say, and I'll spend two and a
half days on the floor.
Essentially observing the operation,looking for anomalies or issues.
(24:35):
And you're out on the floor.
I don't like to carry a lot of stuff withme in a, in food plants.
You're really not supposed to haveanything loose above your waist.
Right.
And you have to have all the proper PPE.
So I take my phone with me.
I use my phone.
I'm a bit of an Apple fan boy.
I use my phone, the notes feature, to writedown what the anomaly is.
So the dead plate on that depalletizeris set way too high.
(24:58):
It is causing dropped bottles.
And then I will take a picture or a videoand they form my report, right?
I do a summary, um, kind of top line, butthen I provide those notes with pictures
and videos.
And let me tell you, they are, uh,incredibly convincing when I'm trying to
show somebody how they're releasingpressure from a container after filling
(25:22):
too abruptly and it's causing agitation,
I can describe it, but if I can show thema video.
of those of you in bottling will know whata sniff rail is, right?
It's how you relieve pressure off acontainer after filling.
If I show them their sniff rail explodingevery time a container comes by because
they're releasing the pressure too fast, Idon't have to say much of anything else.
(25:44):
They're like, oh my God, look at all thatproduct that we're losing.
So yes, this is an amazing tool.
I just can't believe all the uses thishas.
There is plenty of ways to use the mobiles thesedays.
I'll just leave you with two.
(26:05):
One, training.
You can buddy someone with the mobile.
You can share videos.
You can talk live.
And the other is nowadays you go and seealerts.
(26:27):
Actions come straight to your mobile.
You don't need to be running around.
No, everything is in one.
You don't need to go look five screens andit comes when you need it because it's the
time to react.
So plenty of ways to use the mobiles thesedays.
(26:54):
And I'm sure as
new technology comes, but also the new jobforce that is coming.
They are very tech savvy and are geniuswith the mobiles.
They are going to bring, um, much moreways to be efficient and effective in the,
(27:16):
in the lines in the plants.
Yeah, I agree.
I, I never thought that I would beFaceTiming somebody as they're showing me
the transfer from their filler.
Right.
I mean, something as simple as that,right?
Uh, the slow motion capability on ourphones to detect tripping points.
It's, it's COVID times.
(27:36):
It's remember in COVID times, everyone wasvideoing and mentioning and helping each
other.
So plenty of ways guys.
Thank you for participating to watchingus.
Uh, it's great to have the meet up.
But remember, a meetup is only valid ifall the friends come around and we start
(28:01):
bantering and discussing what happened tous in the shop floor that day.
So please do that.
Come with what happened to you that dayand share with us and we'll discuss.
So if you liked it and you are in iTunes,please write us a comment and like us if
(28:23):
you are in YouTube.
And, um, it has been a pleasure.
Oh, no.
Terrific.
Um, we, uh, this is for you by the way,also send us like funny stories, right?
Because I don't know, you know, Alvaro andjokes, manufacturing jokes, manufacturing
jokes, Alvaro and I, we're going to go onthe road and do like some, you know, some,
(28:49):
some mic, uh, auditions, you know, withstandup comedy, but
we couldn't, we tried that and we failed.
So we need your help to make us a littlemore funny.
But anyway, if you've enjoyed thisepisode, please follow us, subscribe, give
us a like.
Uh, if you're in YouTube, leave us areview.
If you're listening on iTunes, uh, sharethe podcast with your friends.
Again, the more the merrier, right?
(29:11):
Um, eventually Alvaro and I, believe it ornot, we'll run out of material.
There's only so much that we can rememberfrom the last 40 years.
Okay.
So, uh, anyway.
Look forward to seeing you next time andask us anything.
Yes.
See you guys.
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