Grow Your Side Hustle to a Powerhouse with Storytelling

Episode Transcript
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Tiffany Youngren (00:00):
Hey there, I'm Tiffany Youngren host of Next Up

(00:02):
Nation where we help podcastersand YouTubers with vision become
preeminent thought leaders intheir industries. You're about
to have the incredibleopportunity to listen as we dig
into the why, who and what of apodcaster show. And then at the
end, we're gonna identify onepowerful how one action she can
take for results in the next 30days. Today, let's welcome Ashly

(00:24):
McHatton, host of Play with Firepodcast. Ashley, welcome. I'm so
excited to have you here.

Ashly McHatton (00:29):
I've been really looking forward to this. I'm
really excited to be here aswell.

Awesome. Well, I appreciate you being here. The
play with pod, the play withfire podcast has released 29
episodes from September 16 of2019 until the day of this
recording, which is August 172021. Ashly is an ultra runner
and entrepreneur who helpspeople use the power of
storytelling to grow theirbusinesses. So Ashly, why did

(00:56):
you start the play with firepodcast?

The real answer is I was really burnt out making
stuff for other people andwasn't creative anymore. And I
started my business. And it wasconnected to ultra running
because I loved hearing people'sstories. When you run next to
somebody for a really long time,you end up telling them your
life story. So I loved hearingpeople's stories. And I missed

(01:19):
that connection to my businessbecause it just came very nuts
and bolts side of marketing. Andso I said why not just create
something just for me and haveit be a fun experiment. And I
had tried to the year before,but it was during the car fire
here in Northern California. SoI just thought it wasn't a good

(01:39):
time to release something calledplay with fire. Oh, gosh. So I
waited a year and then reachedout to guests again. And yeah, I
got yeses from some of the veryfirst people I had asked that
were some of my like, top dream,dream interviewers. So that's
how it all started was just ayes. And an idea that it's gonna

(02:01):
make something for me.

That is so great. So it's so I'm hearing it
was a creative outlet. So you'reable to kind of fulfill that
need, you know, as businessowner so often don't you just
have to focus on all thebusiness stuff of it. And I know
create as a creative thatprobably, you need that to kind
of get something. So how hasthat helped your business or
impacted it? Has it been waythat you thought or

You know, it never goes the way you thought
what you always know to when youstart? But yeah, right away.
Even the intro of the songthat's called play with fire by
the artist I had heard it. As Iwas getting those first few
yeses just for interviews, heardthe song on Pandora reached out
to the artists on Facebook saidhey, you have a song. And it's

(02:45):
like, like, there can be noother song except for this one
for my podcast. And so he hadsaid yes. And then later came on
the show as well. So, you know,it taught me a lot of things,
not just from creative, makingthings work and happen. But also
just it just became fun again,and I ended up couldn't help
myself connecting it back tobusiness. But it was the very,

(03:09):
again the core of how I evenbegan. So it was super, super
fun from a creative standpoint.

I love it. So who is the artists that I'm in
love with their intro? Okay

Sam Tunez Yeah, and he's since has been signed
by a bigger label. And so it'sjust been neat watching what can
happen with people in a year,two years now. But yeah, he was
fantastic. And then my firstperson that I wanted to be on
the show was Ben Von Wong, whois a he calls himself a social
advocate, but he was a famousphotographer that follow for a

(03:39):
really long time. And so he wasmy first Yes. And then Sam's and
that was like, oh God, no, thisis happening. Like no, I have to
make this podcast so so it wasvery exciting.

Yeah, once you get that, you know, I love the
order in which you did things Ilove that it started with
creativity. Then it turned intothis big relational, dynamic
relationally dynamic situationthat it feels like that spurred
you on even more and then fromthere it became a demand like

(04:10):
well now I have to I have topublish it because I have a
responsibility to all thesepeople. So I love it you know i
One of the things I like to sayis do it and the feeling will
follow and really your feelingwas first and then you did it
but then you're responsible tosee it through so it's kind of
like pushing play like i Theother thing you know when I was

(04:33):
when I would work out too Idon't run I'm so jealous.
Honestly, if I'm being honestanyone who loves to run I have
this huge amount of you know, Iwish I could just love that but
but I'm more of like Beach bodyturn on the video type person.

It started because of the Insanity Workout
off took it to the extreme.

Oh, I love that. That's so awesome. Well
now I do hydro but that's awhole nother thing but but
ultimate We always say like,once you push play, it's over,
you know, it's playing. It's notlike you're not gonna work out
at that point. So I feel likethat's what you did with
podcasting is you just like hitplay, hit record and made it
happen. So now, what do you haveany sense of? I feel like, I

(05:17):
have like three questions. I'mall jumbled up. But so I'm
thinking about your business.You're you're about storytelling
and branding and helpingbusiness connect to that. How is
your podcast? Is it connected tothat at all? Or is it really
just to fulfill you so that youcan do a better job? How does
that relate? How are the tworelated?

Right, great question. So when my when I
first started the podcast, I wasknown for sort of a jack of all
trades and marketing, byaccident became an a boutique
agency of one which was not myintent, but then specialized in
messaging. And so through thepodcasting, quickly, again, I
realized I really like hearingpeople's stories. It's about the

(06:00):
stories and also, which I'm surewe'll get to during my hiatus of
podcasting. It's the one thingsthat I've seen people that have
like the breakout moments andwhy I connect and buy things off
at tik tok, or from podcasts, itwas from hearing people's
stories. So I was like, Okay,it's yes, messaging. But it's,

(06:20):
it's really the storytellingpiece that that's, I think, the
next iteration and pivot in mybusiness. So. And while I was
interview, and I just started,again, had a list of like, these
people would be really cool totalk to and now and then how do
I also bring up some of myfriends that do really cool and
weird things with me, as I growas well, and trying to find in

(06:41):
that podcast, like a commonthread that ties all these
interesting people together. Andso then, my business now is
pivoted to that storytellingpiece, which is also where I've
gotten kind of stuck, where I'mlike, I just want to tell
stories. Like, I just want totell everybody stories, I want
to hear everybody's stories. Andthen in my business, like
pivoting that, so I think now itit matches way better than where

(07:05):
it was when I'm first but it wasdefinitely the impetus to kind
of change everything, which isfunny. how that all works. You
know, you started asidecuriosity, and now it's taken
over, I think everything.

So am I hearing you correctly, that your
services are going to morereflect what you're playing out
in the podcasting side of thing?

Yeah. And they have, like, I've been testing
for the last year, what happenswhen people come to me, because
branding is still the thing.Because I think of storytelling,
like making a TV series orbusiness like a TV series, so
you need like a main character,which is usually us in our
business. And our clients arealso the main characters. So how
do you how do you make a TVseries, if you were to look at

(07:47):
marketing like that, to make itcompelling enough to where
people want to tune into yourpodcast, or your YouTube
channel, or whatever you'redoing. And so that's, that's
what I've been testing andplaying with over those last
year is really going back intothe more creative side of it,
but was still the structure,which is why people would come
to me of how to do it, and thebrand building side, but it's,

(08:10):
again, it's it's beeninteresting to go listening back
to even those episodes andreaching out to some of those
past guests. It's all just been,it's just been there in my face,
like the it's just been thebranding and the storytelling,
and then how to then leveragethe podcast to really make that
be a great way to either, youknow, show what I do like brand

(08:35):
awareness or actually be more ofa lead magnet. And so that's
kind of where I'm stuck.

I love it. So now you're just kind of
determining what direction youwant to go in that sense. And
you mentioned your hiatus. Canyou just want to now's a good
time to talk about that.

So I when I started, because I had heard
that you should give yourpodcast like two years. I don't
know where I heard it fromproducts from some podcaster. So
give it two years. And I said,Yeah, that makes sense. Because
one year I could stick toanything with two gets
interesting. And then rightaway, I heard once I got into it
a little deeper, I heard fiveand I was like that is a long
time. Like that's a bigcommitment. So I had kind of in

(09:13):
my head three, and I had severalpeople lined up and then towards
the end of I think what was it2000 must have been 2018. There,
some of them, like got reallysick and then the pandemic hit.
And so then people startedcanceling for other reasons. And

(09:34):
it was really hard to findguests. And then I could find
guests that were no names, youknow, like myself, for instance.
But I was trying to find thatcombination of like well known
people with regular people tokind of show my audience that
everybody has a similar story.It's just remixed a bit
different. And so everythingkind of fell off and so I have

(09:56):
probably 10 episodes in thequeue. Then I just haven't
launched yet because it's whenare things going to stabilize
enough. And then also, as mybusiness has changed now has
kind of paused, but it was, soit's not done. And I've
literally just sent out an emailthis week to my list for for my
podcast saying, like, I have newepisodes coming in, like by the
end, and I put a date so thatway I would be again, hit play

(10:18):
because it's happening, like, nomatter what. But it was at first
like, you know, it kind ofstopped because of some big
names that I had had lined up,all of them back to back
canceled. And so I didn't knowhow to just say like, Oh, we're
on vacation. Like, I didn't knowhow to handle that, because I
was a new podcaster. So

yeah, so what's your date?

September 15.

September 15. Awesome. Look forward to it.
Yeah, you know, podcastingexploded with COVID. But I feel
like a lot of us were that'swhat we did before. We're a
little bit stunned. And itreally changed how we podcast I
think, I think it's, there'sjust in a lot of ways, it's

(11:04):
improved, because there are alot more tools. And I mean,
everybody's got podcastingideas, which is, you know, good
and bad. Now we're filteringbecause we're like, you know,
now there are millions of peoplewith an opinion on how the best
way to podcast but, but it'sgood that you were there before,
and you have a sense of what wasworking and what worked for you.

(11:27):
And I think it's I think it's anexciting time for your business.
That's, that's very cool.

And I think too, it's like, you know, everybody
is like going to the gym, youknow, it's like, oh, you have
all those people the beginningof the year that are all
excited. And then like byFebruary so like, it's never too
late to start one. And if youjust stick with it, you're you
know, even if you take a hiatuslike I remember with Beachbody.
If I broke that 90 days, Ialways felt like I had to start

(11:52):
all over. And then like, one dayit hit me. I'm like, I can just
literally start where I leftoff. Like, why make this like
big thing. So. So I think it'sstill a good time.

I love that. My thing is I always I always
start getting really seriousabout working out in October
have some like internal alarmthat is like I need to start
working out now before everyoneelse does. Because then I can
tell myself like I was workingout, not because it's the it's
not because it's the new year.Yeah. But then it's like, okay,

(12:21):
but I can also start in August.And so I think you bring up a
good point that really I thinkright now is a better time to
start just because we canleverage all these tools that
just came out

so many good tools now.

Exactly. So that I always love asking this
of people who understandmarketing and audience and and
that is who have you identifiedas your ideal audience.

My ideal audience are people like my
guests that have had regularinputs, you know, regular jobs.
But that either had always beendoing something on the side, or
finally got to a point which yousaw a lot during the pandemic to
where people were reinventingthemselves for any number of
reasons, but they're the onesthat are doing jobs. And most

(13:04):
people go like, how did you getinto that? Or like, why? Or how
did you make it work? But it'sit's not the it's not the safe
jobs? So it's the people thatare doing weird, crazy things?

Yeah, that's awesome. I know, I just I need
to go to your about page becauseyou say something about your
show that I'm like, I first ofall, I'm a huge fan of your
intro. So I wouldn't even saylike change it. But I just think
if you don't mind, can I justread from your about page? Okay,
um, let's see that you talkedabout when you started your

(13:40):
business, and you know, that youhad based it around the ideas of
being around and with peoplethat have found that thing that
made them light up. It'sintoxicating, and addicting to
be around people that are livingwith that kind of fire within
them. This podcast is anextension of that. I want to
bring you people who are livinga life doing the thing that

(14:01):
makes them feel most alive. Theydo it in spite of struggles,
setbacks, criticism, in the hopethat you will hear their stories
and see yourself in them. I justthought that is the most
beautiful thing like so, yeah

Like I'm like I wrote that. That was a 2 am like
idea that was a good one.

It's a good one. You should like reuse that
that needs you know, definitely,if you haven't, I would
repurpose that everywhere youpossibly can because I mean, how
do you feel? Doesn't that makeyou feel something?

It puts me right back when I was thinking of even
starting my job I left mycorporate job did you know
started my business as aphotographer out of all things
because of my running picturesand it was it people were
biochemical engineers by day andwould go run these crazy things
on the weekends for fun and likemy son who had uhm Crohn's
disease his surgeon was going onvacation right after he had to

(14:54):
have surgery was like dropped invia helicopter in like the
middle of nowhere in Canada andI was like people do weird
things with their lives like,like, that's his downtime to
relax after, like these reallyintense surgeries. And I'm like,
I want those people becauselike, everybody has the just,
again, they do these cool thingswhen, when you have, you know,

(15:14):
nobody else to worry aboutcriticism, you know, you just
what would you do with that?

I mean, don't you feel like how do we not hear
this more often? You know, howam I just hearing about someone
just getting dropped in themiddle of nowhere? No, you know,
I had a mentor that he, he did,he advised, you know, fortune
500, CEOs and things. And hethey had, there's this one

(15:40):
company that had hired him tocome to their executive retreat.
And so they're just a handful ofthe, you know, sea level
leaders. But it was up at wherewas it was like, either in
Antartica or it was somewherereally, really remote and
really, really cold where nobodygoes except for like, you know,

(16:01):
20 people a year. I mean, it wassome ridiculous place. Like, he
said, cold my brain turned off.But, you know, it's just one of
those things where you're justgoing who like, that's amazing.
I didn't know companies did, youknow, and so I love that that is
your vision is to really sharethese stories with people. And

(16:21):
and before I my next question,I'm actually really excited to
ask you to but before I go on toI just want to kind of again,
tap on the idea that, you know,we just talked about your why,
why did you start your show?Now? We're right, right, in the
depths of talking about yourwho. So as you're talking to
people, and that's, you know, wejust talked about your vision
for the show. Thinking aboutyour listeners, and the people

(16:44):
who are listening, what whatproblem are you solving for
them? And what is theirtransformation that you see if
they were to listen to your showover time?

So it's, you know, like I mean, I'm we're
talking about like my crazies,son, surgeon who's dropped into
the helicopter, like noteverybody can relate to, to
either of those things. Like,you know, that everybody has
something weird and crazy aboutthem. You know, whether it's
like, I own more leg warmersthan anybody should ever own.

(17:16):
Like everybody has like these,like weird things about them.

Leg warmers did you say?

Yeah, like 1980s. Like, I can't help
myself. Like if I see legwarmers, I have to have them.
But everybody has like thesequirks or these hobbies that
they love that they think is nobig deal. Or sometimes, you
know, it's a extreme sport, orthat you love Beachbody, like,
There's a story in there. And soit's like, you don't have to

(17:40):
have like, I had Paul Cohen, whowas the former basis of bad
company on my podcast. And youdon't have to be a rockstar to
have a really good story. Likehe has a really good story. But
you don't like have to be thatperson. My friend Julie, who was
on the show, she's an animalbehaviorist, but she's worked
all kinds of jobs on the sideand to she still gets mad and

(18:02):
hope. I mean, I do hope shelistens to this, call her dog
trainer. She's not she has likeher master's and all these crazy
things about animals, but whogives yourself the title of like
this thing and like goes andhelps people like, you know, the
barrier with their, like petsthat have aggression, like out
of all jobs? Like how would youeven think of that, like, I
don't know. But like, we allhave these interesting things

(18:26):
about us, that show us just likemy writing showed me my love of
storytelling, I wouldn't everhave normally put those two
things together. But over time,couldn't help myself. I don't
like running like it sucks,like, and doing it for 100
miles. It's not fun, like thingsgo very wrong. And so, but I
loved the activity and thecommunity. And, you know, the

(18:47):
problem solving all these thingsthat I have now learned that I
also liked my business and why Istarted it. But so if you listen
to the show, my hope is that,again, that you see yourself
like my About section thankfullysays that you see yourself in
these stories that one person'sstory is going to resonate, you
know, or that you pick up yourguitar again. And like Paul now

(19:07):
goes and plays and houses andlike cooks for people, and then
has a wine label and like to gofrom having your dream job as a
rock star to doing this otherreally cool thing, like both of
those are awesome jobs. And somy hope is that people look at
that thing that maybe that theyalways thought was a side thing.
And it could still be a sidething, but they that that's a
significant part of their story.That is a story worthy and worth

(19:31):
sharing with other people.

Why do you think that's important?

I think everybody wants to be seen. I
think it's a human need.Everybody, everybody's afraid of
it. And they also want it reallybad. You know, which is it's
always I still get nervousbefore every podcast interview,
like so nervous, whether I'm theguest or the host like I still
get stupid nervous. And it's Ithink it was true for me and so

(19:57):
I guess it's making thatassumption and my clients that I
tend to attract to it'severybody wants to matter and
like have significance and likethat their life here has meaning
and purpose to it. You know,that's such a big, like problem
to try like what's my purpose?Like? That's a big question to
answer. But you have like thesereally interesting stories that

(20:18):
can help a lot of other peoplealong their way by sharing your
story and the weird things thatyou learned along the way, like
ultra running. For example, whenmy son was sick, the lessons I
learned about just theperseverance of like making it
to the next tree or to the nextaid station, some nights with
him in the hospital, it was justmaking it to the next hour to
the next minute to the, to thenext thing, which again, like,

(20:42):
I'm grateful I had that traininggoing into that challenge. That
was unique to me, and I'm sureif I was an artist and did oil
paintings, there would have beenlessons from that that I could
have pulled on. So. But again,like hearing it from somebody,
you never know who you're goingto help and you share your
story. So for me, it's I hopethat everybody knows that they
have something to say even ifyou don't feel like you do. Even

(21:06):
though choices of like, why youchoose not to do something, I
think is really interesting. Sothat's my hope is that everybody
knows, they have something worthto say and that if they're brave
enough, when it can help people,but that everybody's deserves to
be seen and heard.

I love that. I love that it's so cool. And so
by so for your audience, or whatare you imagining for them?
Like, because I feel like as aguest, it's hugely rewarding to
be able to share the stories, soam I hearing you correctly. So
as the audience, you're wantingthem to maybe stir up the fact

(21:43):
that they have a story toosomething that makes them
different, and instead ofjumping away from it, leaning
into it, and you know, gettingrid of that middle school fear
of being different, but instead,that's, you know, pushing in
Yeah, exactly. Okay. I lovethat. I love that. And that's,
that's so great. So cool. Sowhen it, I hate that because

(22:09):
like, I feel super great aboutwhat you're just I just could
just talk about that all day.But

I was like, I'm trying not to because I'm like,
we can go down this path.

Like, I have so many more questions about
your life right now. But, but Ipromised you that I would give

And try not to focus a lot
you actionable steps

I know. No, I know me to really so ultimately.
But that's so important. Likeyour whole show is built on
storytelling. So I I reallywanted to give us a lot of air,
you know, space to be able to dothat. Because it's I mean, it's
really the foundation that yourshow is built on. But forgive me
as I transition into a littlemore tactical, like. Okay, so

(22:47):
um, what kind of things do youbefore I asked, before the
before interview, I had givenyou the option of two different
tracks. One was should we talkabout profit? The other was,
should we talk aboutpreeminence, which is building
your audience. And in thisepisode, we're talking about
preeminence. We're talking abouthow do you get more listeners? I

(23:11):
know one thing that youmentioned as well is how do you
attract guests. So they'reapproaching you as quickly as
you're going out and approachingthem? So is that fair? You're
kind of looking for both sidesof it. Okay. So let's talk a
little bit about attracting theaudience. Are there ways right

(23:31):
now that you evaluate yourcontent to see like, is it
resonating or made anyadjustments based on what you're
seeing with the responses?

Are you talking specifically about podcasting?
Is that correct?

Podcasting, yeah.

Just making sure. So I look at constantly, I
mean, I use Buzzsprout, as myplatform, my hosting platform.
And so on the back end, youknow, it shows like, the most
popular episodes, and it's beeninteresting to see the big names
that I thought would bring meyou know, audience something,
don't. But everybody's impressedwith some, like, I still need

(24:05):
those to like, be like, Oh,cool. The most popular though,
are the regular people. And theyshare the most, and they share
their episode the most. And theybring me the most audience and
they tend to reshare theirepisode, as well. So that has
been interesting to learn. Andeven making graphics and stuff

(24:26):
for people to send out to makeit easy for them to share and to
again, like take away all thebarriers and when possible, give
them audio clips, give them allthe things like you did as well
in your checklists, which isawesome. It just to like, again,
take out all those barriers. Thesmaller people tend to share the
most, which doesn't always giveme as many eyeballs, but they

(24:51):
those people after thoseepisodes tend to go back and
binge listen to other episodestoo. So they have the most
engaged following so So that'sbeen interesting to learn.

Yeah, yeah, definitely. And also, how do you
measure whether or not youraudience is expanding? Is it
straight up downloads onBuzzsprout? Or is there anything

Downloads and then looking to see if my social
any other metrics
media accounts because I wasposting on YouTube for a while
and then have those unlisted butstill sharing the episodes there
to see if that did anything. Itdidn't but people would still
watch it just again, it wasusually like that guy's mom and
like a sister or something. Soit wasn't like a big generator

(25:37):
yet at the time so it's usuallyseen of my email list has grown,
which that has grown. So that'sbeen a good metric my, my
listenership and then socialmedia channels, but I haven't
seen my social media channelsfluctuate that much from
podcasting. Yet, so.

So e1mail and the downloads?

Yes, for the most part.

Okay, perfect. Yeah, I really enjoy. I love
your YouTube channel, honestly.In fact, you mentioned it is.
What was that?

Well, I have lots of things hidden right now.
So yeah, it's brand new, likeI've been playing with some new
content to go in for it. Soagain, some evergreen, like
everything is geared up aroundthat.

Awesome. That's so great. That's so
great. Well, this is a greattime for us to have this
conversation then too. So well,okay, we're gonna dig more into
your what. So let's talk alittle bit about things that
you're doing that works. Inaddition to what we just talked
about, what do you believe hasbeen the most effective way or
ways that you attractedlisteners and viewers or

(26:40):
listeners so far,

I'm teaching people how to build their own
podcast. So one of my clients isthe Women's Business Center here
in California. And so putting onhow to start a podcast, people
will then listen to mine as areference. Putting myself on
matchmaker.fm was really goodwhen I was first starting. That
one was amazing and got somevery persistent people, which

(27:05):
has been good to see that peoplealso like don't give up after,
you know, they get the know, ora non response. So like, those
ones always get yeses in someway. And, and then networking in
different online groups. Likeentrepreneur groups, I always go
in there and then mention that Ihave a podcast usually. And so

(27:26):
that's also gotten me a lot ofnew listenership and clients by
accident, by default, from fromlistening to my podcast, and
then either connected me withsomebody is usually how it
happens, or then then hiring meas well. Okay,

so what kind of things do they hire? I mean,
I hope you don't mind me asking,like I said, I'd like to know
this. But so so someone'slistening to your show? Or
someone's referring them to yourshow, what would they hire you
for?

So usually, when I have a guest on, behind the
scenes, I ask people, you know,is there any connection that I
can make for you that maybe Idon't know yet, but I can keep
my ears out for as I build mynetwork of people. And then
often, they will ask me like, sowhat do you do, like, you know,
and so I will tell them about mybusiness and say, Oh, I can from

(28:14):
start to finish can launch your,you know, personal brand, or
take your small business to thenext level. So that was how I
was saying it at first. And inthe beginning, that worked. And
then now what I'm hoping as I'mdoing my new launch, I'm going
to have a storytelling course.And then I have a personal brand
and a large course. So that'swhat I'm hoping people will come

(28:37):
to so that they can take it andif nothing else will be better
communicators. And if they'refeeling brave and adventurous,
and they can launch themselves.

Oh, I love it. I love it. So, um, and one thing
what? So what is your processfor getting guests? I know you
mentioned matchmaker.fm. That's.So I agree. It's an awesome one.

A good one to start. And it's funny, like I
went back in there recently. Andone of the people that I reached
out to Instagram had actuallyreached out to me like months
earlier through matchmaker.fm.And I was like you said Yes,
over here, like. So my processwhich I will start with
matchmaker.fm first go throughand see if there's anybody

(29:21):
there. And then I put a listtogether of the types of clients
that I want to interview. SoI'll put like athletes in a
bucket creatives in a bucketnine to five people coaches, and
then I'll be like, Okay, whereare they listening to? What
podcasts are they listening to?So then I'll go and fill those

(29:42):
in. And then I start thinkinglike, Okay, go look at those
podcasts and say, like, Who havethey interviewed? What I want to
interview them and then startjust thinking about who do I
want to know, which I know issuper selfish, but that's how
the project started and workedthus far. So again, like I'll
then reach out Usually tothrough Instagram, that's been
my most successful means ofreaching out. Because I bypass

(30:08):
the publicists and some of theother people that might be
gatekeepers, and then I can justbe like, Oh, I'm so sorry. And
then I can go though the properchannels, that's how they
prefer. But Instagram has beenmy my best form of actually
getting not only yeses, butactually reaching the actual
person I'm trying to communicatewith.

That's awesome. I love that, you know,
it's so true. You know, I'vegotten some of my bigger names
from responding to their email,like, I'm obsessed with them.
Usually, it's like some bigname, but for a reason. And I'll
just get an email. And I'll justbe like, That's it, they have to
be on my show. Like, I was justtalking about this. And usually,

(30:49):
it's that kind of urgency thatgets it. And then and then when
your dream is when they respondto you and their assistant, or
you and their publicist. Andthey're like, hey, set this up,
you know, usually it's a fourword response. But yeah, it's
something to do with somebodyset this up. So I, I love that
you do that? I think it'sfantastic.

I like that approach to like, following
those moments, again, like whereyou're like, you just don't even
think I'm like, There'ssomething always good that comes

Yeah, yeah. In fact, I've got a show I obsessed
from that.
with podcasting in real estate.Those are my two favorite
things, and other than myfamily, but those are my two two
obsessions. Yeah. Those are mytwo business obsessions. And I
have a show with someone and wehave a competition. I have
someone I really want on ourshow, and he has somebody he

(31:38):
really wants on our show. And sowe have this competition, like,
Well, whoever books that personfirst. And so of course, he's,
he's like waiting untileverything's just right. I'm
just, that's not my style. Like,I just do stuff. And then I'm
like, Okay, that didn't work.And so, of course, I immediately
reached out to this person,because guess what, I got an
email from him. And I'm like,Dude, seriously, like, that's

(31:59):
what I want to be talking abouton our show. And you'll usually,
and so I immediately was like,Yeah, you know, I really want
you to come on and, and then ofcourse, his, somebody on his
team responded, they're like,No, you need like, 40,000
followers or something. And Iwas like, I ended. So I took
that as an awesome. Now I know,I mean, metric as well. I'm not

(32:21):
going to wait until then, firstof all, let's just, but I have,
but I already have like, okay,here are 10 reasons why, in this
case, it should be okay. So youjust kind of look at it. Like,
that's my first No. And that infact, I told my my show partner.
I was like, Hey, this is I gotmy first No, like, I was
excited. That's step one is Ihad to be rejected. Yeah,

(32:45):
exactly. So anyway, I

No, I love it.

Guest side of things is definitely my favorite
part of podcasting. So I lovethat that's so important to you
as well. And so when it's onething to do, so I see that when
I go to your website, when I goto your creating wait, I'm on
the wrong one playing with firepodcast website, you have a have

(33:10):
an episodes page, and thenthere's content on each episode,
is that automatically fedthrough the RSS? So if I click
on episode 27 other words, whichI love? Is that the description
that also is sent to or is thisa written for blog content?

I think I just write it for Buzzsprout. And
then I copy and paste itusually? And then add to it if I
need to, if it makes sense to onthe website.

Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. And you have a
lot of words, that's one thing Isee a lot

Like good or bad thing?

That's good. It's good. Because, you know,
blog posts is one of the bestways to get more attract more
listeners, because you thinkabout that page is like a
landing page all of a sudden, soit's got all this content. So if
someone, what do I have openright now? Creating a life as
good as it looks with LouiseGeorge. So yeah. And so you

(34:10):
think about it, you know, talksabout her speaking as an expert.
TV presenter. So if someone'slooking at something, and then
this shows up as a as a resultin Google for, you know,
presenting on TV or something.

I also intend them and Pinterest with the
audio clips to that. Oh, good. Iwonder if that's done anything
over time?

Do you? What what link do you use when you do
Pinterest?

The link to the episode off of my website.

Oh, that's my favorite answer. Yeah. Thank
you. I love this. I love this.Yes, yes. Yes. Well, I mean,
it's, you know, like there's alot of right ways to do it. But
I, the more that you can juiceup your SEO for your webpage,
you have more control. So onething that I do like if you look
at any one My my podcasts, thereare different places where I'm

(35:04):
strong or weak at any giventime, but I'm all about putting
resources behind what's working.So if I have an episode that's
doing well already, that meansthat already people are digging
it, right, so they're on thepage longer, they're listening
to the episode, that's the one,you're gonna see that we're
putting a ton of content behind,so that when they're on Google,
they're also looking it up.Usually, our first default is

(35:26):
that we'll create a blog pageand or an episode page. And
we'll optimize it for interviewwith that person. So that we're
showing up higher on for asearch for their name, that
works really, really, that's agood way to optimize having big
name guests on your show withoutthem doing a thing. So they

(35:49):
might not be promoting it. Butif you can optimize for people
searching for their name, thenyou're going to be attracting
traffic who are interested inthem. And you know, you're
bringing out these stories, sothey're not going to be
disappointed. So they're goingto land on that page, and still
find the content that they'relooking for. Yet it's going to
be increasing, you know, and youknow, the more traffic that you

(36:11):
get, the more it's going to bemoving up in the search results.
So it's just a very dynamic wayto build your to build your
audience.

See, as you're saying it, I'm like, oh, okay,
that's just tweaking some thingslike it's not.

Yeah, exactly. Well, that's one thing that I
like about what you're doing,you're doing so many things
really well to create thisfoundation. And then, you know,
all of us were basic, I mean,marketing is testing. And so
it's all about, like, what'sworking what's not. And when,
especially when you're a smallbusiness, I don't talk to a ton
of podcasters are like, Oh, Ihave unlimited funds that I can

(36:49):
just pour into my podcast, andyou know, we're all like, Okay,
do I buy a mic? Or do I havesomeone write my stuff right
now, you know, I mean, we're allmaking these decisions. And, and
by leveraging the things thatare already working, we just get
so much more traction. So I lovewhat you have. So I'll get to
that point. Park I usually aspoiler right now I started just
like, blow, these are all thethings you're doing great, but

(37:11):
I'm going to try to just take adeep breath, and keep going. So
I'm assuming you do. Do you havea formal social media strategy
for promoting your show?

I did. I did. I don't currently and I have one,
I'm open to one because Ihaven't thought that far. I
mean, I'm like, that's fourweeks away, like, like the week
out my what I was doing was likethe day that the episode came
out, the person would already benotified have all the assets to

(37:44):
share out already be sharingthem across all of my social
media, the episode The blogwould go live. And then like
throughout the day, it'd besharing clips. And, you know,
audio clips, and then likequotes and stuff in my Instagram
stories, because that's where mybiggest following is share it on
LinkedIn as well, a lot of timesthat was working well, as well.

(38:08):
And then if something was doingreally well, then I would boost
it like two or three days later.And then two or three days
later, I would mention theepisode again, like that week
was like that their week to behighlighted in between my
regular content.

Awesome,

And I would try to make content that related
too. So now like now that I'mactually telling stories,
because my current upcomingcontent for social media for
like, Instagram will be mesharing what I've been testing
and working, sharing my storiesto demonstrate what it looks

(38:45):
like for people and in betweenthere. So like, if I had Julie
at the animal behaviorist on, Imight share a story about one of
our five dogs we have because wehave lots of dogs or like
running into a bear when I wasrunning in or it would be it
would be animal related thatwe'd go around stories and to
underpin whatever they weretalking about. So that's kind of
my thinking. But there's so manymoving parts. So like now it's

(39:09):
like I think my energy is goingto be spent on Instagram and
LinkedIn and then in Pinterestfor my podcast content sharing
strategy.

So are you seeing good engagement because I
love your strategy, quitehonestly, I think it's
fantastic. Are you seeing a lotof

Its back end engagement. So like I'm not

Yeah. So let's kind of go back to your kind of
getting the likes or comments,but I'm getting tons of direct
messages and saves and shares soso that's frustrating like
forward facing when I'm like noreally I have engagement like I
have an audience there there.But the back end analytics have
been going up consistently whenI was doing that before the

(39:49):
podcasting and then now what thestory is because I was just
testing that has also gone upbut my forward facing
engagement's down. But I usuallytoo will share or ask permission
like if somebody sent me, a, adirect, like a direct message
like, oh my gosh, today'sepisode was so helpful. Because
this is what I took away. Andhere's how I'm implementing it,

(40:10):
I will usually ask them, Can Ishare that with the Creator? And
if they say yes, and I will goanother step, and ask if I can
share it on social media, myfirst step is always with the
Creator, because I always wantto leave that door open to have
like a 2.0 interview with them.But I selfishly want the the
forward facing stuff first.

(40:35):
what you want out of your show.I know when I asked you before
you I was made, and it was like,I want to position myself as an
authority in the thoughtleadership space and build my
network and circle of influence.So if you're looking at your
engagement as a salesperson, I'mlike, you get the best
engagement. You know, that's thestuff that, you know, business

(40:57):
owners, when they hate marketersis because we're looking at all
these are what I call vanitymetrics, where it's how many
likes did I get? How many, youknow, how popular Am I but
really, when, when a businessowner wants some kind of
engagement? It's something thatturns into something else. And
so when you're disappointed, youknow, I guess I'm just want to

(41:20):
make sure I'm clear on what itis, what is it that you want out
of your show? What do you see asbeing a good takeaway from it.

So I'm, even though my ego wants vanity
metrics, I want to prove topeople that again, you don't,
it's not, that's not what'simportant, so but I need to have
some sort of data to show themso like the back end stuff I'm
happy with and showing them thatthat's the impact. And again,
with my course launch to that,like once you finally launch
something in our I followed theKorean vegan, I super love her

(41:48):
stuff. So when she finallylaunched that she had a book, I
don't know if I like Korean foodor vegan food, but I was like,
definitely gonna buy this book,because I love her. And there's
so I mean, I have my office iscovered in artwork from from
people and podcasts and booksthat I've listened to and this
last year. So I want to showpeople that it's, you know,

(42:08):
podcasting is unique if you putyourself out there and you share
your story. Because people canconnect with you. And if you
don't have that long, if youdon't have the luxury and the
time, because you have a day joband can't be on there, you can
still share smaller storiesyourself, like on your social
media, to connect with people.Because they'll work even if you
don't see the results rightaway. Again, I have lots of

(42:32):
stories balls try to stop there.So my my wind is going to look
like, as I increase, like startputting up episodes again, that
I do get more of those bignames. Again, analysts get more
regular people with good storiesto share that are doing cool and
interesting things. And all ofthat is continuing to show my

(42:53):
audience that they can do ittoo. They can go for the job,
they can create a personalbrand, they can sell it the
farmers market, their chickeneggs, I don't know whatever
their thing is.

Awesome. So am I understanding correctly. So
you're so you're and I don'teven want to call it a concern.
I feel like the only kind ofreservation you have about not
having those big front endnumbers is that you're using
your show as somewhat of a proofof concept for the people that
you're talking to. So you wantto be able to say, Hey, look.

(43:25):
And really, while we know thatthose you know, some of these
are vanity metrics, it's hard toconvince other people of that I
know is that

kind of like our guests really like getting those
guests like, because like when Iasked some big names, they
wanted half a million beforethey would be on my show or
interview. And I'm like, That'sawesome, like, half a million
reach because I can get that foryou. Like what are we like, what
are exactly those numbers? Andyou know, where I took that as a
not yet like how can I wait alittle bit longer and not push

(43:57):
too hard and be just borderlineobnoxious but still get that?
Yes. So for me, it's getting thebig names, increasing the
audience and like having theagain, the show is going to be
the example just like myInstagram examples of it. And
then maybe even having manyepisodes that go on my YouTube

(44:20):
down the road of like breakdownof like, here's how I'm doing
these two things that you see.So then that way you can see
that it works. But I need tohave something like numbers to
show of some sort that peopledon't understand. Because I am
in my podcast I didn't go outthere again, as I shared as a
creative project, but it stillbrought in money directly from

(44:40):
people wanting to do businesswith me over the last couple of
years and it's still growingeven though I've taken a hiatus
I'm like people are still wentto like I have to I have to go
back. I said three years. I'mstill within that window.

Yeah.

So that's that's my my concern is as long as it's
growing and I'm getting guestsIt's been hard getting some
guests and getting the attentionof some in. Like, how do you get
that network where you're inlike that book launching circle
and somebody has a new? Like,why didn't Matt Matthew
McConaughey come on my show?Like, like, yeah, those kinds?

Gotcha, gotcha. Okay, that's, that's
super helpful. One morequestion. And then we can
transition into the next phase.So with you, I feel like I'm
getting a really good sense ofyou really want to have be
enough of kind of a name brand,for lack of a better term, to

(45:36):
the point where guests are like,Oh, I totally want to be on that
show. So if they're a regularperson, they're like, oh, my
gosh, that'd be awesome to be onthat show. And then if they're a
big name, they're like, theydon't have to ask you they're
not saying like, Oh, you have tofirst show me that on one
channel. You've got a millionlisteners, like they're just
like, oh, yeah, of course.That's I know that show. Yes. I
want to be on that show. That'skind of what we're looking for.

(45:57):
Is that position? What do youthink is standing between you
and that right now?

That's a good question. That's such a good
coaching question. So I thinkbesides the hiatus taking that
out, I think it's just gettinghaving more episodes more proof
out there to show so picking itback up going for those big
names even like Will Smithhasn't responded to me because
I'm like see he just didn'treceive my message so finding

(46:28):
another way to get to him orwhoever else is on my list right
now that I've been asking. Andand then I think it's being just
louder like putting my own stuffout there more so it's more
posts more content, maybe it'stwice a day instead of just like
the twice a week during thoseblasts, you know, and maybe

(46:50):
making a reel out of it youknow, or doing something
creative and clever to getattention but but posting more
content to to really put myselfout there rather than it just
being like Hey, I made a thing.I like to do it on purpose more.
more running more hill repeats or more and more.

Yeah,
So you're because I know when I watched
your YouTube the first thing Iwent to I really had to look
hard for the podcast. In fact, Ihad to like go around about way
but yeah, I was like I did findthem because I am like that but

(47:28):
but so the first thing that Isee it's just awesome and it
looks like you must create themon TikTok or so is that not all
of them maybe but it had kind ofthat vibe but yet storytelling

Of the reels? Yes. Yeah, I want it like just
not flashy
like my episode I wanted to beentertaining and if it can be
educational, even better Ifigured we both so yeah, I want
it to be like where I picturelike again with a reel myself
like taking notes like listeningto like the audio clip. So
having my guest audio clip. Andthen like the caption being like
when you're when you learnawesome things from your guest

(48:05):
and then like tag them in a postor something like that. So that
way it's showcases them andhighlights them and still
positions me great.

Love it. Love it. Excellent. Okay, so I would
like to transition into the nextpart where we talk about before
I you agreed to come on. Like Isaid earlier, I promised you two
things. Number one, I would beprepared. And number two, I
would give you one actionablestep that would get you results
in 30 days. So before wetransition into that, is there

(48:35):
anything else that you want toshare that we haven't talked
about yet that I should considerbefore we move on to the next
phase?

No, I'm ready for you.

Okay, awesome. So do I have your permission to
share some some thoughts andfeedback Okay,

Yes.

So before we do I always like to first start
out I like to keep the mainthing the main thing so I always
like to start out with my fourP's to preeminence number one is
to know your purpose, which iswhy we started with your why.
Number two is to know yourpeople really dial in on your
audience messaging, which you'reamazing at obviously, that is
your jam. So I love I lovedhearing about your you know who

(49:16):
it is that you're talking withand why it is that those are the
people that you want to, youknow, encompass. The third thing
is promotion. So optimizing thepromotion of your show, again,
you know, sometimes I interviewpeople and they're just starting
out there. Like, I have no ideahow to do this. How, you know, I
only interview people who havehad enough episodes where I feel

(49:37):
like okay, now they know, theyreally want to do this and
they've had enough experience,but I feel like with you, you're
doing all the things and it's,you know, I can feel you're
repositioning you know, it's thesame thing but just kind of in a
different run at it kind of athing. You're putting on a
different pair of tennis shoes,but you're still wearing tennis
shoes and you're still runningso so just off demising the

(50:00):
promotion that you're alreadydoing. And then number four is
earning the proceeds or profitto pay for help. Which I was
gonna, I do need to ask youthat. But I feel a lot of times
we as podcasters just ignore theidea that we have to do it for
profit, or we think, oh, we needa million downloads and or we
can't make anything I feel likeyou have a good understanding of

(50:22):
if you're getting clientsbecause of your show. That's
ROI, like that counts as ROI. Doyou have help? Where are you
doing all of this on your own?

Yeah all my own.

Oh, gosh, okay. So, um, yeah. Okay, so. So
that's, and that's one of thereasons why if we want to talk
about sustainability that reallygoes into play is understanding
the ROI. Because if you can putgas on the fire, you'd like to
play with fire, so put gas onthe fire. And it's going to
accelerate kind of a thing. Solooking at it that way. So, so

(50:58):
purpose, people promotion, andproceeds, 4 Ps. Again, we're not
going to talk any, that's asmuch as I'm going to talk about
proceeds. It was what you justheard, but it having the
proceeds makes those other threethings possible overtime. So you
ready? Okay, so we're gonna talkabout three things. Number one,
I'm going to share some thingsthat I think you're super strong

(51:20):
at, this will not be allinclusive, I think you just have
a really good layer of awesome,and so, but I want to share the
things that just really jumpedout at me, then I'm gonna share
some areas of opportunity in noparticular order, and no, prior
like, I wouldn't even say youhave to do any of them. Those
are just, they're just going tobe areas that I'm like, wow, I

(51:40):
saw this. And maybe if you trythis or that, sometimes when I
share them, people are alreadygoing on that route. And so it's
just helpful to hear it. Becauseultimately, I feel and I
mentioned this earlier that weget so many ideas that it's not
helpful, because we just need toknow what's next. And so the
third thing I'm going to shareis this is what I would do if

(52:01):
there was just one thing thatyou could do out of the whole
list. So so here we go. So somethings that I think that you're
just doing amazingly number one,I just feel like the design of
your website is awesome. I am inlove with your intro though.
Like that was the top I've likehad I go off my list. I love
your intro, I started your show.And I was like yeah, I'm totally

(52:22):
listening to this is gonna beawesome. So I you know, the
first 30 seconds is the primereal estate and you use it well.
So I don't know, you're welcometo like, jump in and say yay, I
love I know.

I'm super happy. Yeah, I'm proud of it. I just it
was the one thing that Iinvested into my creative
project before I even gotstarted. I was like, I'm gonna
spend my money here. And I'mvery proud of it. And I don't
think it won't need to changeanytime soon. So

no, no. Well, it's it's enjoyable to listen
to, as well as the messaging youknow, you you definitely got the
messaging down so and you have aman who says that which I'm a
huge fan of women having menintro or men having when women
intro just to get that, youknow, just emotional. I don't

(53:10):
know, I just there's somethingto it. Someone told me that at
one point, I'm sure that there'sdata to back it but

I don't know. Right now. Yes. Just it's too
dramatic if I was trying to dothe intro voice myself.

Yeah, that's awesome. So love it, love it.
And then also, I gushed aboutyour YouTube this whole time so
it kind of took away my numbertwo thing which is also I'm
equally as enthusiastic aboutand that's your YouTube. You
call them reels. Is that right?Or the older the short? Yeah,
the short versions that are thewhites. Okay. Sam so yeah, I

(53:44):
love them I number one, youreally are a good storyteller.
So if you were to say hey, Ihelp people tell stories and
then I watched your your reels,I'd be like, Okay, you're very
well qualified to do thatbecause and I encourage anyone
just go check out Ashly's shortreels. We'll have a link to her
YouTube in the show notes. So besure to go check that out.

(54:07):
They're super great. Not onlyare they entertaining, but they
truly are informative. So ifyou're a business owner and
you're thinking like I don'teven know why it matters to have
storytelling I don't how does itfit? Well the reels tell you how
it fits also so they're verywell told stories as well as

(54:28):
telling you why it's importantto tell story so I love it love
it huge fan and I think it'sanybody listening to this show
you will get a ton of value outof watching that so it's gonna
help your I think it will helpyou with your own messaging as
well. So so good and like Isaid, there's a lot of the I
love the you have a lot of wordson your blog. So all the things

(54:49):
that I said leading up to now Istand by as well. I love that
you have a blog for your showthat you're when you post about
An episode, your link goes backto the episode on your website
again, because if later on,suddenly there's a call to
action, and you're talking aboutthese new programs that you're
launching, while at the bottomof the blog posts, having that

(55:13):
as part of it, you can be addingthat or taking it out, but you
have full control over theperson's experience. A lot of
people send the listeners toiTunes and they're debating, you
know, do I send, it's like, no,send them to your show, and then
have links to to iTunes orApple, Apple podcasts, and
Spotify and things like that. SoI love it. Love it. Very good

(55:36):
job.

Okay. Well, that was just one of those things,
too. And like, what's my call toaction? Cuz I didn't know when I
started. So I was like, followme. Let's Yeah, so I was like,
Nope, I'm gonna just make itlook look sleek and figure it
out later. So

yes, so let's talk about areas of opportunity,
because you just totally nailedit on the head. Again, you know,
not like, Oh, this is your to dolist, this is just things I'm
observing. But having thathaving that call to action, that
is well suited, a well suitednext step for your listeners is

(56:12):
huge. Because if they want tosubscribe, if they click your
subscribe button, they go toApple. And so it's like, they're
gonna subscribe. And at the endof your show, you ask them to
subscribe. And then it's like,you know, it's on the podcast
player. So ideally, they'relistening to your show, you're
telling them and hopefully, likeI said, over and over again, go

(56:33):
to your about page, grab a pieceof that, and just like repeat
it, repeat it, repeat it, repeatit. And then that might be a
good start to the body of yourcall to action, where it's like,
this is you like, you can admitit or don't, but this is you
like you have a good story. Soclick on this, and I'm gonna
give you this, but it's a greatnext step for someone who just

(56:56):
heard one of your shows like,you just listened to an episode.
Now, you know, it, you know, ifit didn't resonate with you,
like, oh, you know, whatever. Idon't know how to talk to you.
But yeah, but if I did, as faras Yeah, if you did, like,
you're still here. So here's thenext step, because you probably
want more, because that probablyfelt great. And it probably

(57:17):
encouraged you. So, you know,you're better at messaging. So
like, something like that. It'sbrilliant. I was like, yeah,
that's you're hired, that's whatI need to do. So at the bottom
bottom of every page, and thenhighlighted on the first page,
just again, you know, comingback to that message from your
about page, I just think, youknow, driving that home, and

(57:40):
then also having your playertowards the top. So maybe having
a, you know, that first theme,it's not a thesis statement, but
you know what I mean? Like theintro paragraph, where you're
engaging them, like, this is whyyou want to listen to the show,
give them you know, just have itembedded right there at the top,

(58:02):
and then they can read the restof it below. Or, if you're going
to be optimizing for YouTube,then I would stick the YouTube
video in there instead. Anotheridea might be that, you know,
for me, I would any episode, Iwould have either the video or
the audio embedded at the top,sometimes I change it, you have

(58:22):
a couple guests where I waslike, Dude, I would be embedding
that video at the top, becausethey're so colorful, and I would
have watched, I would have, Iwould have watched, but when I
read the title, I wasn't even, Iwas kind of like, Oh, that looks
everybody looks encouraging.Like, that's awesome. But
sometimes you just get thisperson where you're like, that's
yes, I have to see what she'sgoing to tell me, you know,
she's got a great story. So justkind of playing with it that

(58:46):
way. And then even not to beafraid to, especially if you
have a real that is related toone of your episodes, if you're
like, oh, this was inspired bythis episode, embed that later
in the blog, you know, becauseyou that whole Google, you know,
Google owns the world. And so ifyou're playing their stuff

(59:07):
somewhere else, I mean, I knowit's your stuff, but like to
them, it's their stuff. Yeah.And so, but but with the YouTube
videos, it you know, you'regetting another play from
YouTube. If someone like I knowfor myself when I'm watching
YouTube, on my phone, which iswhere everyone most people are
watching now, if they're able toget kind of attached to what

(59:28):
they're watching, and then havethe option to open the app, then
you've got that descriptionthere. You've got links there.
So you know, I and you optimizeI was gonna say, you know,
optimize your YouTube videodescription like you would your
blog, but you're doing a greatjob of that you have your links,
it's really consistent. So doesthat. Is that helpful? So

(59:49):
helpful? Yeah, okay, good.

Because I mean, there's so many moving parts.
And again, like you said, whenyou're one person doing it, it's
just like, to not get burned outin its day. I'd like to know
that those are the right thingsI can get through them, like the
hard part of not seeing resultsfor a while. I'm like, Okay, I'm
doing all the right things, Ijust need to keep doing them. So
that's just super helpful seeinghow it all connects. And and I'm

(01:00:13):
glad you like the shorts becauselike, those are like, I had tons
of them on TikTok knows, likecues, good examples of what I'm
trying to eventually show peoplethat they can do for themselves.
And it's like, there's aformula, it's not hard, and, and
so like to hear your feedback,too. And like, good. And then
again, like we were just talkedabout, like, if there's an
episode that it was eitherinspired by, because there was
definitely some of those that Ican then connect everything. So

(01:00:36):
then it all works togetherinstead of it feeling like
because I when I left mycorporate job, which was an
insurance super boring to be Istarted photographer, like I was
like to the book creative. Andso like, Oh, look at that shiny
thing and look at that, like soI don't ever want to come across
that way. So it feels reallygood to have everything I'm

(01:00:57):
putting out there beyond purposeand connected because on a gut
level, I know it's connected. Ijust like you're helping me tie
in those knots of like, whereit's all going and how.

Tiffany Youngren (01:01:06):
Oh, good, good, good. Good. Yeah. And even
in in you might already do this.But even in the YouTube reels
saying this was the episode thatwas the inspired this reel. So
if you're not already doing it,which you might already be

Ashly McHatton (01:01:21):
excuse to post it again.

So yes, exactly. So I would definitely
have them going back to your toyour podcast page, because then
it's going to be embedded thereagain. And so you're keeping
like you said, you're keeping itall together. But it's
optimizing is taking the sameassets you already have. And

(01:01:42):
just doing more with it. Andthen you because you have so
much text in your blog, normallyI'm like, Well, you know, write
something different for yourblog. But I wouldn't do any of
that until you started seeingmore traffic. You'll one time I
did a blog post a long time agoon hashtags. And it was on page

(01:02:03):
one forever. And so I wasconstantly like rewriting it and
looking at it through like hotjar, you can go to Hot jar, and
they can track how people useyour page and seeing like, where
are people following fallingoff. But you can just take one
page that's getting a lot oftraction and get them to another
episode. So but that's down theroad. So again, don't do that

(01:02:23):
right now just focus on what wesaid, but but it's just you can
think about it's like, oh, didthat one little tweak? And that
helped? What's next? And thenthat's when you can bring
something else in where it'slike, oh, well, you know, if
they liked that episode, Ireally think that they would
like this other episode. And wecan trust our blog posts or blog
plugins to do that, but no one'sgonna know better than you will.

(01:02:45):
Because, you know, someonelikes, you know, someone in a
band talking about this, theymight like a story of someone in
a band whose song was at thebeginning of your thing and then
ended up you know, getting adeal. So, so anyway, again, it's
just all about leveraging whatyou're already doing really,
really well. So awesome.Helpful. Good. Okay, so if I was

(01:03:10):
boss of the world, so those arethose first one face. We make
that happen. I don't want thatjob. I don't have a job but but
if i But if I just did onething, honestly, it has to do
with optimizing your blog page,honestly, I mean, we spent the
most time talking about it, butI do think that having a call to

(01:03:33):
action on your website and thencoordinating it with your, your
episode, Episode pages, as wellas embedding the audio at the
top and just keeping it youknow, consistent. Which you are
you're super consistent aboutit. But one thing too and not
you know, I have to likedisclose everything but one

(01:03:55):
thing too like some of the linksdidn't work so I would go to
your like I think there was apage where it's good to know was
I think the wasn't the aboutpage where was it episodes may
just see. Ah, maybe it was yourcompany page. I don't know there
was Oops, there's one page whereit said like Oh, watch me on

(01:04:16):
video. Or or subscribe on iTuneswork yeah, yeah, exactly. Maybe
it was

I know I'm so good thing about finding it. 29
episodes and I can go back andindividually look at all

Yeah, exactly. One I think it was like a main
page. So it might have been Iwould go to your company. Oh,
here this one. Oh, it's thehomepage. Sorry. I made it. I
was trying to make it reallycomplicated but it's really
easy. So let's see. Yeah, sojust Oh, meet the guests like
that. Okay, that's that's abroken but anyway, so that's an

(01:04:57):
easy fix as well, but good.Yeah. Yeah, so helpful? Yes?

So helpful. So, so fun.

Good, good, good. And then everybody who's
listening. Number one, you'rejust gonna get so much great
stuff out of Ashley's show outof her clips on YouTube, as I've
said a few times, but go checkout the play with fire podcast.
So when you search for it, a lotof you know, music comes out,
like if you're like me onSpotify, a lot of stuff comes

(01:05:24):
up. So just type in Ashly ASHLY.And it will come up immediately
her show will so and then youcan look it up on your favorite
podcasting platform or go toplaywithfirepodcast.com. We'll
have the links in the show notesas well. And is there anything
else? Ashley, thank you, again,so much. Is there anything else
that you would like to add?Before we wrap?

I think we covered it all. But again,
anybody listening, whetheryou're a guest on a show, or
have your own or thinking aboutstarting one, like everybody has
a story to tell. And so I can'twait for you to tell yours and
definitely get on this one,because it's just been a
pleasure getting to talk withyou, it's so fun. So,

Well, Ashley, thank you. And I have to say,
you know, between the runningand then now you're so great at
storytelling, I am just such anover explainer and an oversharer
I wouldn't call it my gifts atall, I think you're magnificent
at it. And so anyone who wants apodcast, being able to
effectively tell a story, Ithink is so important. So I

(01:06:27):
appreciate you coming on andsharing what you're doing. And
I'm super excited to hear Ireally want you to let me know
when you have people, you know,on your show that you're like,
Yay, this person is coming atyou.
Yeah. Yeah, or you can justemail me quietly and be like,
Oh, my gosh, I got this person.Because

There's one person I've been working on a
year and a half, I will let youknow when that one happened, oh,
I went through the appropriatechannels don't do that. I went
through the publicist. And thenit was like, they haven't ever
told me no, but it's been a yearand a half. So

And sometimes there's a costing money and and
not costing money route. And I'mone of those like I, you know, I
just don't want to pay for aguest because I want it and I
know that they're stillauthentic, even if you pay for
them to come on, because that'swhy they're great. But I just
and I might change my mind. Butas of right now, I just really
feel like I want them to be onmy show. I want the having

(01:07:25):
guests is my number. It's soimportant to me. I mean, the
audience, you know, deliveringmy audience promise is
important, as is my guestexperience. And I just feel like
I just it just so rewarding ifthey just want to be on my show.
So

And I haven't paid for one either. And I'm
like theirs. If they had a bookcoming out and if I had to buy a
certain number of copies, but itwas like for, like there would
be like some asterisks and I'dbe like, Okay, I'd make an
exception here.

Yes.

But otherwise no, they should want to be in my
show.

Exactly, exactly. And in real quick to
and then we'll wrap it one thingthat on on my episode in fact
her name was Ashley also, I havean episode, the first 12
episodes of next up nation arewhat I call my masterclass where
I interviewed all these peoplewho they either have a podcast
that they feel is they they cancall it profitable in one way or

(01:08:18):
another. But I have a lot ofguests who are really leaders in
different areas of podcasting.And oh, Ashley as she she has a
food podcast. Oh my gosh, I'mterrible right now, but and she
gave the greatest tip on lookingfor for guests. And that was she

(01:08:39):
goes and you might already dothis, but she goes to Amazon and
looks up books that are comingup. Do you do that already? Is
that

No, I know that tip. Like that's a good one.

Yeah, you know, what's funny is I was in
the same boat. I was hearing youtalk about like authors and why
did they come on my show? I'mlike, I totally forgot about
Ashly's.

It's a good one! It's like, I go through my dream
list. And then it's then youstart doing some of those some
of those ways. And because,again, people might just say
yes, if they're on that, yespodcasting circuit.

Exactly. Exactly. And everybody really
should just say yes. So let'ssee.

I mean we're amazing, so yeah.

right. Let me just see I I'm just stalling
here too, because I really wantto I yeah, I just really want to
get her last name and becauseit's just was such a good. She
was She was a former Red Carpetcorrespondent. And so she's a
producer, Ashley Chaney. CHANEY.So she's kind of like a

(01:09:43):
Hollywood insider and she's eventhe reason when you listen to my
show. The reason we do it in theformat that we do it has a lot a
lot of influence from myinterview with Ashley so so I
have to give her props for thosethat great advice. But anyway,
awesome. Well Well, unless youhave anything else you'd like to
share, that's a wrap.

No. Thank you so much.

Awesome. Yes. And everybody who's listening
again, definitely go check outAshly's show and remember, don't
be average. Be brave, takeaction and make magic happen.
Thank you so much for listening.

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