What if the secret to transforming your life isn't motivation, but something far more sustainable?
Many of us chase external motivation to push through challenges, only to find it fades fast. This episode dives deep into the power of discipline over motivation, and how cultivating intentional habits can lead to lasting transformation in fitness, business, and life. Whether you're stuck in a cycle of inconsistency or seeking clarity on your "why," this conversation is for you.
- Learn the critical mindset shift that took Devon Gonzalez from a solopreneur to a national fitness franchise leader.
- Discover how discipline, not fleeting motivation, creates real, lasting change.
- Gain actionable strategies to stay consistent even on the days you don’t feel like showing up, and learn how to turn discipline into internal motivation.
Press play to uncover the mindset tools and practical habits that can help you finally follow through on your goals - no matter what.
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KEY POINTS AND TIMESTAMPS:
03:13 - Mindset Shifts from Solopreneur to CEO
05:12 - Discipline vs. Motivation
09:03 - The Emotional Benefits of Discipline
11:51 - Practical Tools for Building Discipline
19:35 - Defining Intentional Action
22:03 - Mindfulness and Purpose in Action
24:31 - Habits and Goal Setting for Success
˚
MEMORABLE QUOTE:
"Start sooner - many of the achievements and growth you aspire to are possible earlier than you think."
˚
VALUABLE RESOURCES:
Devan's website: https://www.devangonzalez.com/
˚
Click here to get in touch with Agi and discuss mentoring/coaching.
˚
Join our growing community at MasterySeekersTribe.com, where self-mastery seekers come together for connection and growth.
˚
🎙️ Want to be a guest?
Message Agi on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/member/personaldevelopmentmastery
˚
Personal development inspiration, self help insights, and actions to implement for self improvement and living with purpose.
˚
Personal development, self mastery and actionable wisdom for self improvement, self help and living with purpose and fulfilment.
Inspiring insights to help you cultivate emotional intelligence, build confidence, live authentically and embrace your purpose. Discover practical tools for self-improvement, personal growth, self mastery, mindset shifts, healthy habits, meditation, wellness, spirituality and self growth—empowering entrepreneurs, leaders and seekers to create meaningful success and lasting happiness.
Join our growing community at MasterySeekersTribe.com, where self-mastery seekers come together for connection and growth.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Agi Keramidas (00:00):
We often talk about motivation in personal
development, but what if thesecret to transforming your life
isn't motivation, but somethingfar more sustainable? Welcome to
personal development mastery, apodcast that helps intelligent,
(00:22):
busy professionals develop selfmastery and discover their
calling so you can thrive in afulfilling, purposeful life. I'm
your host. Agi Keramidas, andthis is episode 504 many of us
chase external motivation topush through challenges only to
(00:42):
find that it fades fast. Thisepisode explores the power of
discipline over motivation, andhow cultivating intentional
habits can lead to lastingtransformation in fitness, in
business and in life. Bylistening to this episode,
you're going to discover howdiscipline, not fleeting
(01:05):
motivation, is the one thatcreates real, lasting change,
and how to develop it startingtoday, and you will learn
actionable strategies to stayconsistent, even On the days you
don't feel like showing up. Sowhether you're stuck in a cycle
of inconsistency or seekingclarity on your why, then this
(01:30):
episode is for you before wedive in. If you have been
resonating with theseconversations and feel like you
are at crossroads in your life,I offer one to one coaching to
help you gain clarity and stepinto your next chapter with
confidence. If that soundsinteresting, reach out to me and
(01:51):
let's chat now. Let's getstarted
today. It is my real pleasure tospeak with Devan Gonzalez,
Devan, you are a fitnessentrepreneur, Best Selling
Author and host of the mindsetCafe podcast. You are passionate
about personal developmentdiscipline and helping people
(02:13):
unlock their full potential,whether in fitness business or
life. Devon, welcome to theshow. Since it's a pleasure to
speak with you today, thank you.
The pleasure is all mine. Thankyou for having me on your show.
I'm looking forward to exploringwith you. Some of the things
that have in mind is discipline,resilience, mental barriers,
(02:35):
and, you know, breaking throughthem, stuff like that,
before we go there, tell us youscaled a single gene into a
national franchise. What was oneof the hardest since you said
(02:57):
about mindset mental barriers ormindset shifts. What was one of
the hardest mindset shifts thatyou had to make along the way? I
Devan Gonzalez (03:10):
would say the mindset shift of going from
solopreneur to business ownerto, you know, CEO, and
understanding that while they'resimilar, you have to think about
the situations differently. Youhave to, you know, really
understand yourself and realisethat your team is going to be
(03:33):
built and really strengthened ifyou show them the way. And they
don't know all the informationthat you know, right? And they
don't know how you want it done,if, because it's all in your
head, right? And so that shiftof you know, understanding that
I need to better myself as aleader, better myself as a
mentor, essentially in in my ownpersonal development journey at
(03:57):
each level, and knowing thatpersonal development is a never
ending game.
Agi Keramidas (04:03):
Completely agree, I refer to it as a journey,
myself without a destination. Imentioned already the
discipline. So one thing that Iknow that you talk about is
discipline over motivation, andthat is something that you know
(04:24):
personally, having studieddiscipline myself, I understand
it, but for many people, theydon't see the, perhaps, the
value of discipline. They relyon motivation. So I would like
to hear your thoughts on youknow when motivation fades, or
(04:45):
what is the role of that? Andhow can discipline really, if it
is a matter of motivation, howcan discipline change that if it
is not a matter of motivation,tell me about discipline
instead.
Devan Gonzalez (04:58):
No, definitely.
And. I mean, it's a greatquestion, because a lot of
people get mixed up betweenbeing motivated and being
disciplined, and that's why Ilike to differentiate the two
motivation there's two sides toit. There's external
motivations, right? You know,when you watch a David Goggins
video, or, you know, you watchsomething that's an inspiration,
you see, you read aninspirational quote on
(05:19):
Instagram, you know, you getreally inspired, and you're
like, yes, you know, I'm gonnago do that right now. And then
an hour passes and you're like,Well, you know, I actually have
to go do this, this, this, andthen, and then I'll go do it,
and then you don't end up doingit right, because external
motivations is fleeting, right?
It comes, it goes. So what Ilike to have people focus on is
(05:42):
discipline, right? Disciplinedoesn't necessarily mean that
you need to be motivated to dosomething, right, but you know
that you need to do it in orderto achieve the results. I mean,
I own a gym, and I don't feellike working out every single
day, right? And so it's likethat people, even our members,
have, like, this misconceptionof that just because I'm a gym
(06:03):
owner, just because I'm atrainer, that I must love
working out every single day,not, not true. And if, if you,
if, if there's a you have apersonal trainer, and they're
telling you that they loveworking out every single day of
the year, they're lying to you.
There's days that they don'twant to do it, but they do it
because they know they need todo it right. And so discipline
is something it's a skill,right? In just that leadership,
right? It's built, and it'sbuilt through doing the things
(06:26):
that you don't want to do on thedays you don't want to do them
time and time again. And itstarts to get easier to become
more disciplined overrepetition. Once you start to
become disciplined, then youstart to see the results of
whatever you're trying toachieve. And once you start
seeing the some of the results,or the initial results, then you
start to gain internalmotivation, right? Then you you
(06:48):
know, let's say for fitness, forexample, all of a sudden you go
to the gym. Day one, you lift upyour shirt, no change. Go to the
gym. Day two, lift up yourshirt, no change. But after a
month or so of it, all of asudden you lift up your shirt
and you see a little bit of, youknow, weight loss. You see a
little bit of, you know,definition starting to show in
your arms. And all of a suddenyou're like, I want more of
(07:08):
that, right? And so now thatdiscipline has turned into
motivation, but from an internalstandpoint, and you don't need
an Instagram quote or an in reelto get you to go to the gym. You
show up because you know thatit's giving you the results.
Agi Keramidas (07:27):
I agree completely that the external
motivation is something that iscertainly not sustainable. It
can push you into the direction,but can, can't keep you going.
What you were saying aboutdiscipline and the results that
(07:47):
you that you see that turn itinto internal motivation. I will
add to that, from my personalexperience that discipline or,
you know, you use the examplethat you don't feel like working
out, but you do it anyway. Andthis could be whatever it is
that we are disciplined towardsdoing. For me, one very early
(08:13):
reward once I discipline myselfis I feel better about myself.
So before I even see anyexternal results, because, you
know, I've done it, the firstthing I feel is that I've done
it. It's better for so when Ifeel better about myself, then
everything else, let's say, inthe day ahead, gets a bit
(08:36):
better. So just adding to that,in terms of discipline, and how
I personally have benefited fromdiscipline in terms of self
esteem. I suppose I can call itlike that.
Devan Gonzalez (08:51):
No, exactly. I mean, discipline is, is a skill,
like we're like we're saying,and it translates into other
things as well, right? You know,one thing I like to say is,
like, how you do one thing ishow you do everything, right? So
if you become more disciplinedon achieving a goal, whether
it's fitness, whether it'sbusiness, whatever, you're going
to be naturally more disciplinedon doing the other tasks
(09:12):
throughout your day, becauseyou've already built that self
esteem, that self confidence, toachieve something, even though
you didn't feel like doing it,you know, every single day. But
also it kind of goes into, let'ssay for fitness, it goes into
that aspect, like you, you know,you look good, you feel good,
you feel good, you do good. Andso it's like when you achieve a
(09:33):
task because you weredisciplined, naturally, you
start to get a rush ofendorphins. You feel, you know,
a little natural high,essentially from a chemical, you
know, flood of those endorphins,and that leads into the rest of
your day, right? You start tofeel a little bit better about
yourself. So everything that youdo has a positive outlook
(09:55):
versus, you know, you saidyou're gonna go to the gym, you
didn't go. Then you're like,Man, I. The show would have
gone. And now you kind of arehard on yourself. And now
everything throughout the day isa little, you know, little tint
of grey to it
Agi Keramidas (10:08):
that residence. I think many people will relate to
what you said when, if we don'tdo it, and then we think back
and kind of regret it, and wehave this negative mental
dialogue that doesn't leadanywhere nice. We beat ourselves
up. Basically, since we are onthis I will remain on this topic
(10:30):
of discipline. Since it's veryinteresting, I would like to ask
you specifically, you know, yougave the example earlier, about
having a routine of going to thegym or having my decision to go
to the gym. And now I'mreferring to someone listening
(10:52):
to this conversation. And oneday, one morning, as it happens,
to all of us, we don't feel likeit, or there are, you know, a
very big, very reasonable excusecomes up that. So can you give
us something practical? What isit that one can do to enhance,
(11:17):
let's say, the the ability to bedisciplined at that time.
Because, as we all know,discipline, it is a daily
battle. It's never somethingthat is automatically won every
single time you have to make thedecision to do this kind of
action. I hope my question is,makes sense?
Devan Gonzalez (11:37):
No, it does. And I think there's, there's two
parts to it, right? The firstpart is, you need to find what
your what your reason why isright? And because, let's say,
we'll say, you know, on the gym,top paper with going to the gym
like there's a reason why yousigned up at the gym, right?
There's an initial reason, andthat reason, you might say, is
(12:01):
to lose weight, right? But whydo you want to lose weight,
right? And well, because I wantto feel better. Why do you want
to feel better, right? And youhave to ask a few levels down to
get your real why, right? Well,I want to feel better. And you
know, feeling better will allowme to have more energy with my
kids or my grandkids. And okay,so you want to be able to play
(12:22):
with your grandkids, and so nowyou know your reason why, right?
And so it's not really aboutlosing weight. It's about losing
weight so you can feel better,play with your grandkids, you
know, and live a long, healthylife for them. Got it now on the
days that you don't feel good, Iwant you to remember that when
you don't feel good and youdon't feel like you know, you're
just waking up your littlegroggy, you don't really feel
like going to the gym. Going tothe gym. Would you know? Are you
(12:45):
really gonna let your grandkidshave you know that version of
you in the future? You know? Andthen all of a sudden, you're
like, you start to get hard onyourself. No, I'm gonna go. And
I the hardest part, I tellpeople honestly, this is even
for myself. Some days, thehardest part is just showing up,
right? Just getting in the car,driving, let's say, to the gym.
(13:08):
But then once you're at the gym,you're like, Well, I'm already
here. I might as well do theworkout, right? And then you do
the first exercise, and all of asudden you're like, Oh, this
isn't so bad. You start to getinto it. And then all of a
sudden you finish your workout,all right? You know, I'm proud
of myself for doing that. Itwasn't as hard as I was, you
know, making it seem or bad as Iwas, making it seem in my own
(13:29):
head, right? And so sometimesthe hardest part just showing
up. And I want you to think ofthis if, if the reason why
isn't, you know, pushing youenough. I want you to take this
perspective on things, right? Ifsomeone told you they were going
to do something for you and theydidn't do it, how would that
make you feel? Right? Youwouldn't. You wouldn't accept
(13:51):
that, right? If they said theywere going to give you this life
in in this healthy life, youcould live with your grandkids.
Never going to do that for you,you know, and they didn't do it,
would you be upset? Right?
Probably. So why would you notaccept that from your WHY would
you accept that from yourself?
You were supposed to be yourbiggest fan and your biggest
(14:14):
cheerleader, and you were theonly person that could do that.
So if someone else told youthey're going to do something
and didn't do it, you'd be mad.
But if you tell yourself you'regonna do something, you're not
mad. You know that's I mean,that little shift in
perspective, really therealising that you have to be
truthful to yourself, and youhave to, you know, be the most
vulnerable and open withyourself, but hold yourself
(14:35):
accountable, because at the endof the day, no one's gonna do it
for you. Thank you. These are
Agi Keramidas (14:41):
very useful. You said I got like three, let's say
things we can do to disciplineourselves when we don't feel
like it. And the first was toreconnect with your why, or the
deep why. Actually, the second,I liked that you said, just. Up.
(15:01):
You reminded me when, when Iwas, I was training for the
London Marathon a few years ago,and as you can imagine, it
needed a lot of training, a lotof consistency, a lot of
discipline, and sometimes I wasexactly like that. I didn't feel
like, you know, having to do a10 Mile Run that was in the
(15:24):
training routine at that time, Iwould trick myself. I see it
like this, and now I would trickmy mind by saying, Okay, I won't
do all that. I'll just do onemile. And yeah, I can do on Mile
easily. And as you were sayingthat, you know, just by showing
(15:44):
up the moment, I would beoutside with my running shoes
and start running, it wouldnever be a mile. It would
probably be the what, because itwas easier then I had already
momentum. It is exactly the mostdifficult thing is to show up.
So I share that as also my ownexample. And the third one you
(16:07):
said, and I think that isfantastic as a perspective
changing, is to look at what youare not doing us, if it is
someone else not doing it, andhow you would hold them
accountable, because we are verygood at, you know, finding
excuses for ourselves. So thankyou very much for this. I
(16:32):
reiterated with my own words,just to because these are, I
think, very practical tools,because we've all been there. We
said we would do something, andit's the last thing that we feel
like doing at that moment. Andwe need, sometimes, the the ways
or the tools, if you want to beable to snap out of it,
(16:53):
sometimes if we need to. So Idon't know if you agree with
with this.
Devan Gonzalez (16:59):
No, I do. I mean, it's that everything that
you said, like in how youreframed, it was perfect, right?
It's there. It's practical.
Sometimes it seems almost, youknow, too easy to work. But
sometimes it's just the basics.
Is All You Need, right? Youdon't need these fancy, you
know, plans and stuff thatsometimes you just have to show
(17:20):
up, right? Like you said forrunning, like sometimes it's
just telling yourself you'regonna do one mile, and then you
start, you know, get thatsnowball formed, and then all of
a sudden, instead of snowballgoing down a hill, it starts
picking up momentum. The snowstarts getting bigger, and all
of a sudden, now it's this huge,you know, Boulder of a snowball,
because it has all thatmomentum, but it's hard to get
(17:41):
that momentum going. So you tellyourself, I'm gonna do one, and
then you achieve one, well, Icould do one more. And then you
hit two, and, yeah, I still gotenergy. I'm doing one more,
three. And then you just keepthat going. It's easy just to
take your your workout, okay,I'm gonna go the gym. I'm just
gonna, I'm just gonna walk onthe treadmill today, right? And
then all of a sudden, you startseeing the other people working
(18:03):
out and pushing themselves.
Well, I could do one exercisereal quick. And then all of a
sudden, well, actually, Ihaven't done that exercise in a
while. Let me do that one,right? And then all of a sudden,
before you know it, you did awhole
Agi Keramidas (18:16):
workout. It is a, you know, it's very It's indeed,
very clever when we do it,because our mind tricks us or
tries to trick us all the time,so it's good when we have the
ability to do it for ourbenefit. Devon, I would like,
I'm going to shift gears. Andthere is one other topic that
(18:39):
I'm very much intrigued to hearyour thoughts about and you talk
about intentional action and thepower that intentional action
has. So you know, we all knowand understand that action is
necessary to achieve somethingsuccess, or whatever it is that
(19:02):
we want. What I would like tostart with is, let me hear you
define what. When you sayintentional action, what do you
mean exactly? And so we'll takeit from there.
Devan Gonzalez (19:17):
So intentional action, meaning that your your
full like doing action justmeans you're doing something,
right, but if you're going to dosomething, then do it to your
best ability, right? Give ityour full attention. Give it
your full ability, your fulleffort, right? Then if you
(19:37):
don't, because if you don't,what's the purpose of doing it
at all, right? And in that itgoes into the kind of the the
understanding that time is theonly thing that we have on this
earth that is finite, right?
That there is all a limitedamount of time, the one thing
that we don't get back. So whywaste your time doing something
with half effort? You. And stillspending the same amount of time
(20:00):
on it, instead of just gettingit done and doing it to the best
of your ability. Because again,how you do one thing is how you
do everything, right? So ifyou're gonna go to the gym, and
then you spend an hour there,but you just kind of mosey
around, you're talking witheveryone, you're not really
working out. Or you went to thegym, you worked out for an hour,
you know, and did your bestworkout that you could. To your
(20:24):
ability, you're there for anhour both times. You lose an
hour either way. But now, whatis the results of that?
Compounded a year later, ofthat, you could be in the same
place you are if you're doingthat, you know, just mosing
around, you know, checking on onFacebook so everyone knows that
you go to a gym, or a yearlater, you those compounded, you
(20:44):
know, hourly workouts that yougave your effort to, and
everything every intention toshow you don't need to check in
on Facebook. People know thatyou go, have been going to the
gym.
Agi Keramidas (20:57):
That's great.
What do you think? Because forme, when I hear the especially
the word intention, apart from,you know what you're saying, to
give to the action the best ofour ability, or focus our
attention. Do it, you know,wholeheartedly and wholly. For
me, the word intention alsoimplies some energy or something
(21:20):
mental. Apart, you know, fromthe action itself. Obviously you
can do the action very focused,but I think there is a nuance
there between focused and, youknow, to the best of our
ability, and intentional,because I think it implies
(21:40):
something else. So what are yourthoughts on that?
Devan Gonzalez (21:45):
No, yeah. So the the flip side of that, right? I
mean, that's, I try to keep iton more of them, on the basic
side, you know, kind of takingit down to the ground level for,
you know what we were talkingabout before, but intentional,
like when you're doing action,or when you're doing something,
what is the reason for you doingthis right? If you're scrolling
(22:06):
through Instagram, are you justMindlessly scrolling? Or are you
scrolling? Looking forsomething? Are you looking for
new ways to achieve your goal?
Are you looking for inspirationto get you up on the next day.
Are you looking for a new avenuein business? You know? Are you
looking but in beingintentional, there's a purpose
behind what you're doing. Whyare you doing it? Because if
(22:29):
there's no purpose behind whatyou're doing, then then why are
you doing it? Right? Why notspend that time working on
yourself? Why not spend thattime with your family, instead
of just mindlessly wasting time.
Agi Keramidas (22:48):
This is great.
Thank you. And what you youmight not have used it the same
words, but for me, you itreminded me, or what you said
prompted in me the becomingmindful of the reason why we're
doing it. So if we're sending anemail, why are we sending it
that connects us with theintention? Or if we are at the
(23:13):
gym, why or what? It is veryuseful. And you know, the
becoming aware of the moment,the attention. So that's another
part that I got from youranswer. I would like to ask you
before we start wrapping up.
(23:43):
Since, you know I was tellingyou earlier that I always enjoy
giving practical action tips tothe listener. We've already done
that, but I would like to askone of yours actually, perhaps a
personal habit, a routine,something that you feel that has
(24:03):
really made the big differencein your life, in your success,
in what you have been doing,
Devan Gonzalez (24:12):
definitely, and now, honestly, that's it's a
great question, and I will saythis, I mean my I'll use my
business as an example. Andbecause people will give me, you
know, a pat on the back and say,Wow, you're so lucky. Luck had
nothing to do with it, right?
And one of the things that hasworked really well for me, not
just in business, but in life,you know, I used to do
(24:34):
competitive, you know, fightingand stuff of that, and you start
to cut weight and all that kindof stuff. So the main thing I'm
gonna say is you have a goal,right? And set your goals big,
right? And when you set thatgoal big, you might not know the
journey there, right? And that'sokay, right? Whether it's
losing, I had to lose 30 poundsfor a month, for a fight in a
(24:56):
month, one time, right? Or.
Sorry, two months in one time,right? So goal is 30 pounds,
right? Instead of being like,Okay, I need to lose one pound,
one pound all the way up. Oh,that's not 30. Do it again. Set
the goal big, and then break itdown into smaller steps first.
(25:16):
So like, for example, you know,everyone has their New Year's
resolutions. What is the goalfor you to achieve by the end of
the year? Awesome. Now breakthat into quarterly goals. So
every, you know, three threemonths. Now, what do you need to
do to every three months toachieve this yearly goal? Then
break those quarterly goals downinto monthly goals, right? And
(25:39):
then the monthly down to weekly.
And all of a sudden you start tolook at and you're like, Oh,
that's not that bad. You know,if I could just do this every
single week, that will lead upto this. And even if it doesn't,
you'll be fairly close. I mean,I built we launched the gym. Two
years later, we launched thefranchise. A year later, we, you
know, got our first franchise. Ayear later, we have three more
(26:00):
coming on like it's again, it'severything's done if you just
stick to the plan, whether youfeel like it or you don't. But
the thing is, I didn't know whenwe opened the business, when we
were going to franchise or whatpoint, but we actually condensed
our timeline because everythingwas just lining up. So you might
(26:21):
set your yearly goal and youmight achieve it in eight
months, six months, right?
Because everything just startedworking out better in your
favour, instead of setting ayearly goal waiting until July
to really start on it, and thennow you're trying to crunch
everything in and then you don'tachieve it. Or, you know, maybe
you get close to it. Imaginewhere you could have been if you
(26:42):
just did that from thebeginning, but you're taking
small little bites out of it.
The best way to eat an elephantis one bite at a time.
Agi Keramidas (26:51):
I like that and having the goal breaking it
down, reverse engineering it to,you know, small little tanks
that are manageable. BrilliantDevon, where do you want to
direct the listener of thisconversation that wants to find
out more and connect?
Devan Gonzalez (27:10):
I mean, you can go to my website, and it's not,
I mean, there's not a lead formor anything of that. Just, I
made a website just to make alanding page for everything that
I got going on. But it's justDevin D, V, A, N, Gonzales, G,
O, N, Z, a, l, e, z.com,
Agi Keramidas (27:28):
that's great. And I also have two final quick
questions. I always ask them,and I get some very interesting
answers, so I'm curious to hearyours. And the first one is,
what does personal developmentmean to you?
Devan Gonzalez (27:47):
Personal Development, to me, is
constantly improving yourself,right? And that's the base level
answer. So that's not my fullanswer, right? That's just the
base thing. But personaldevelopment, to me, it really is
the fact that you can get betterat least 1% each day in one area
(28:08):
of your life, whether it's yourrelationship with your family,
whether it's work, whether it'sfitness, whatever your goal is
to essentially get a little bitbetter each day. And there is no
end destination, right? PersonalDevelopment is infinite. It's
like the horizon, right? Whenyou're looking at the horizon,
you can't see the end. You cansee where it gets smaller, but
(28:28):
if you were able to walk there,you would realise that it goes
out again just as far. So thesame thing for personal
development. Realise that it's anever ending journey, and you
even though you have a yearlygoal and stuff like that, that's
awesome. That's just a fractionof you becoming the version of
yourself that you were designedto be
Agi Keramidas (28:49):
so true and hypothetically, let's say you
could go back in time and meetyour 18 year old self. What's
one piece of advice you wouldgive him?
Devan Gonzalez (29:00):
18 year old self, I would have told him to
start sooner. You know, 18 yearold, 18 year old version of me
was, you know, just joiningcollege and got into the the
frat life and, you know, thefraternity life and everything
like that, you know. And notsaying that I wasn't ambitious
and motivated then, but a lot ofthe things that I've achieved
(29:20):
could have been started earlierin my journey, and I probably
would have told my 18 year oldself maybe buy a Bitcoin. You
know,
Agi Keramidas (29:28):
yes, of course, she reminded me of that phrase
that said, if I had to live mylife again, I would do the same
mistakes, only soonest. Yeah,exactly. Devon, I want to thank
you very much for thisconversation. I enjoyed it very
much, and I think there weresome very useful and practical
elements that came out of it,especially when we're talking
(29:51):
about discipline. I want to wishyou all the very best with your
life and your mission. Uh, Iwill leave it to you for your
final part in wisdom.
Devan Gonzalez (30:07):
Thank you so much for having me. And I will
say that if you have a goal, ifyou have a dream, and someone
else has already achieved it, orliving the life that you're
wanting to live, that is yourproof. That is your testimonial
to that it is possible for you,because you're not that special,
for it to not work out for you,but to be able to work out for
(30:29):
someone else.
Agi Keramidas (30:34):
I hope you found this episode enlightening, if
you have been resonating withthese conversations and feel
like you are at a crossroads inyour life, I offer one to one
coaching to help you gainclarity and step into your next
chapter with confidence. If thatsounds interesting, reach out to
(30:56):
me and let's have a conversationand until next time Stand out
don't fit in.
We often talk about motivation in personal
development, but what if thesecret to transforming your life
isn't motivation, but somethingfar more sustainable? Welcome to
personal development mastery, apodcast that helps intelligent,
(00:22):
busy professionals develop selfmastery and discover their
calling so you can thrive in afulfilling, purposeful life. I'm
your host. Agi Keramidas, andthis is episode 504 many of us
chase external motivation topush through challenges only to
(00:42):
find that it fades fast. Thisepisode explores the power of
discipline over motivation, andhow cultivating intentional
habits can lead to lastingtransformation in fitness, in
business and in life. Bylistening to this episode,
you're going to discover howdiscipline, not fleeting
(01:05):
motivation, is the one thatcreates real, lasting change,
and how to develop it startingtoday, and you will learn
actionable strategies to stayconsistent, even On the days you
don't feel like showing up. Sowhether you're stuck in a cycle
of inconsistency or seekingclarity on your why, then this
(01:30):
episode is for you before wedive in. If you have been
resonating with theseconversations and feel like you
are at crossroads in your life,I offer one to one coaching to
help you gain clarity and stepinto your next chapter with
confidence. If that soundsinteresting, reach out to me and
(01:51):
let's chat now. Let's getstarted
today. It is my real pleasure tospeak with Devan Gonzalez,
Devan, you are a fitnessentrepreneur, Best Selling
Author and host of the mindsetCafe podcast. You are passionate
about personal developmentdiscipline and helping people
(02:13):
unlock their full potential,whether in fitness business or
life. Devon, welcome to theshow. Since it's a pleasure to
speak with you today, thank you.
The pleasure is all mine. Thankyou for having me on your show.
I'm looking forward to exploringwith you. Some of the things
that have in mind is discipline,resilience, mental barriers,
(02:35):
and, you know, breaking throughthem, stuff like that,
before we go there, tell us youscaled a single gene into a
national franchise. What was oneof the hardest since you said
(02:57):
about mindset mental barriers ormindset shifts. What was one of
the hardest mindset shifts thatyou had to make along the way? I
Devan Gonzalez (03:10):
would say the mindset shift of going from
solopreneur to business ownerto, you know, CEO, and
understanding that while they'resimilar, you have to think about
the situations differently. Youhave to, you know, really
understand yourself and realisethat your team is going to be
(03:33):
built and really strengthened ifyou show them the way. And they
don't know all the informationthat you know, right? And they
don't know how you want it done,if, because it's all in your
head, right? And so that shiftof you know, understanding that
I need to better myself as aleader, better myself as a
mentor, essentially in in my ownpersonal development journey at
(03:57):
each level, and knowing thatpersonal development is a never
ending game.
Agi Keramidas (04:03):
Completely agree, I refer to it as a journey,
myself without a destination. Imentioned already the
discipline. So one thing that Iknow that you talk about is
discipline over motivation, andthat is something that you know
(04:24):
personally, having studieddiscipline myself, I understand
it, but for many people, theydon't see the, perhaps, the
value of discipline. They relyon motivation. So I would like
to hear your thoughts on youknow when motivation fades, or
(04:45):
what is the role of that? Andhow can discipline really, if it
is a matter of motivation, howcan discipline change that if it
is not a matter of motivation,tell me about discipline
instead.
Devan Gonzalez (04:58):
No, definitely.
And. I mean, it's a greatquestion, because a lot of
people get mixed up betweenbeing motivated and being
disciplined, and that's why Ilike to differentiate the two
motivation there's two sides toit. There's external
motivations, right? You know,when you watch a David Goggins
video, or, you know, you watchsomething that's an inspiration,
you see, you read aninspirational quote on
(05:19):
Instagram, you know, you getreally inspired, and you're
like, yes, you know, I'm gonnago do that right now. And then
an hour passes and you're like,Well, you know, I actually have
to go do this, this, this, andthen, and then I'll go do it,
and then you don't end up doingit right, because external
motivations is fleeting, right?
It comes, it goes. So what Ilike to have people focus on is
(05:42):
discipline, right? Disciplinedoesn't necessarily mean that
you need to be motivated to dosomething, right, but you know
that you need to do it in orderto achieve the results. I mean,
I own a gym, and I don't feellike working out every single
day, right? And so it's likethat people, even our members,
have, like, this misconceptionof that just because I'm a gym
(06:03):
owner, just because I'm atrainer, that I must love
working out every single day,not, not true. And if, if you,
if, if there's a you have apersonal trainer, and they're
telling you that they loveworking out every single day of
the year, they're lying to you.
There's days that they don'twant to do it, but they do it
because they know they need todo it right. And so discipline
is something it's a skill,right? In just that leadership,
right? It's built, and it'sbuilt through doing the things
(06:26):
that you don't want to do on thedays you don't want to do them
time and time again. And itstarts to get easier to become
more disciplined overrepetition. Once you start to
become disciplined, then youstart to see the results of
whatever you're trying toachieve. And once you start
seeing the some of the results,or the initial results, then you
start to gain internalmotivation, right? Then you you
(06:48):
know, let's say for fitness, forexample, all of a sudden you go
to the gym. Day one, you lift upyour shirt, no change. Go to the
gym. Day two, lift up yourshirt, no change. But after a
month or so of it, all of asudden you lift up your shirt
and you see a little bit of, youknow, weight loss. You see a
little bit of, you know,definition starting to show in
your arms. And all of a suddenyou're like, I want more of
(07:08):
that, right? And so now thatdiscipline has turned into
motivation, but from an internalstandpoint, and you don't need
an Instagram quote or an in reelto get you to go to the gym. You
show up because you know thatit's giving you the results.
Agi Keramidas (07:27):
I agree completely that the external
motivation is something that iscertainly not sustainable. It
can push you into the direction,but can, can't keep you going.
What you were saying aboutdiscipline and the results that
(07:47):
you that you see that turn itinto internal motivation. I will
add to that, from my personalexperience that discipline or,
you know, you use the examplethat you don't feel like working
out, but you do it anyway. Andthis could be whatever it is
that we are disciplined towardsdoing. For me, one very early
(08:13):
reward once I discipline myselfis I feel better about myself.
So before I even see anyexternal results, because, you
know, I've done it, the firstthing I feel is that I've done
it. It's better for so when Ifeel better about myself, then
everything else, let's say, inthe day ahead, gets a bit
(08:36):
better. So just adding to that,in terms of discipline, and how
I personally have benefited fromdiscipline in terms of self
esteem. I suppose I can call itlike that.
Devan Gonzalez (08:51):
No, exactly. I mean, discipline is, is a skill,
like we're like we're saying,and it translates into other
things as well, right? You know,one thing I like to say is,
like, how you do one thing ishow you do everything, right? So
if you become more disciplinedon achieving a goal, whether
it's fitness, whether it'sbusiness, whatever, you're going
to be naturally more disciplinedon doing the other tasks
(09:12):
throughout your day, becauseyou've already built that self
esteem, that self confidence, toachieve something, even though
you didn't feel like doing it,you know, every single day. But
also it kind of goes into, let'ssay for fitness, it goes into
that aspect, like you, you know,you look good, you feel good,
you feel good, you do good. Andso it's like when you achieve a
(09:33):
task because you weredisciplined, naturally, you
start to get a rush ofendorphins. You feel, you know,
a little natural high,essentially from a chemical, you
know, flood of those endorphins,and that leads into the rest of
your day, right? You start tofeel a little bit better about
yourself. So everything that youdo has a positive outlook
(09:55):
versus, you know, you saidyou're gonna go to the gym, you
didn't go. Then you're like,Man, I. The show would have
gone. And now you kind of arehard on yourself. And now
everything throughout the day isa little, you know, little tint
of grey to it
Agi Keramidas (10:08):
that residence. I think many people will relate to
what you said when, if we don'tdo it, and then we think back
and kind of regret it, and wehave this negative mental
dialogue that doesn't leadanywhere nice. We beat ourselves
up. Basically, since we are onthis I will remain on this topic
(10:30):
of discipline. Since it's veryinteresting, I would like to ask
you specifically, you know, yougave the example earlier, about
having a routine of going to thegym or having my decision to go
to the gym. And now I'mreferring to someone listening
(10:52):
to this conversation. And oneday, one morning, as it happens,
to all of us, we don't feel likeit, or there are, you know, a
very big, very reasonable excusecomes up that. So can you give
us something practical? What isit that one can do to enhance,
(11:17):
let's say, the the ability to bedisciplined at that time.
Because, as we all know,discipline, it is a daily
battle. It's never somethingthat is automatically won every
single time you have to make thedecision to do this kind of
action. I hope my question is,makes sense?
Devan Gonzalez (11:37):
No, it does. And I think there's, there's two
parts to it, right? The firstpart is, you need to find what
your what your reason why isright? And because, let's say,
we'll say, you know, on the gym,top paper with going to the gym
like there's a reason why yousigned up at the gym, right?
There's an initial reason, andthat reason, you might say, is
(12:01):
to lose weight, right? But whydo you want to lose weight,
right? And well, because I wantto feel better. Why do you want
to feel better, right? And youhave to ask a few levels down to
get your real why, right? Well,I want to feel better. And you
know, feeling better will allowme to have more energy with my
kids or my grandkids. And okay,so you want to be able to play
(12:22):
with your grandkids, and so nowyou know your reason why, right?
And so it's not really aboutlosing weight. It's about losing
weight so you can feel better,play with your grandkids, you
know, and live a long, healthylife for them. Got it now on the
days that you don't feel good, Iwant you to remember that when
you don't feel good and youdon't feel like you know, you're
just waking up your littlegroggy, you don't really feel
like going to the gym. Going tothe gym. Would you know? Are you
(12:45):
really gonna let your grandkidshave you know that version of
you in the future? You know? Andthen all of a sudden, you're
like, you start to get hard onyourself. No, I'm gonna go. And
I the hardest part, I tellpeople honestly, this is even
for myself. Some days, thehardest part is just showing up,
right? Just getting in the car,driving, let's say, to the gym.
(13:08):
But then once you're at the gym,you're like, Well, I'm already
here. I might as well do theworkout, right? And then you do
the first exercise, and all of asudden you're like, Oh, this
isn't so bad. You start to getinto it. And then all of a
sudden you finish your workout,all right? You know, I'm proud
of myself for doing that. Itwasn't as hard as I was, you
know, making it seem or bad as Iwas, making it seem in my own
(13:29):
head, right? And so sometimesthe hardest part just showing
up. And I want you to think ofthis if, if the reason why
isn't, you know, pushing youenough. I want you to take this
perspective on things, right? Ifsomeone told you they were going
to do something for you and theydidn't do it, how would that
make you feel? Right? Youwouldn't. You wouldn't accept
(13:51):
that, right? If they said theywere going to give you this life
in in this healthy life, youcould live with your grandkids.
Never going to do that for you,you know, and they didn't do it,
would you be upset? Right?
Probably. So why would you notaccept that from your WHY would
you accept that from yourself?
You were supposed to be yourbiggest fan and your biggest
(14:14):
cheerleader, and you were theonly person that could do that.
So if someone else told youthey're going to do something
and didn't do it, you'd be mad.
But if you tell yourself you'regonna do something, you're not
mad. You know that's I mean,that little shift in
perspective, really therealising that you have to be
truthful to yourself, and youhave to, you know, be the most
vulnerable and open withyourself, but hold yourself
(14:35):
accountable, because at the endof the day, no one's gonna do it
for you. Thank you. These are
Agi Keramidas (14:41):
very useful. You said I got like three, let's say
things we can do to disciplineourselves when we don't feel
like it. And the first was toreconnect with your why, or the
deep why. Actually, the second,I liked that you said, just. Up.
(15:01):
You reminded me when, when Iwas, I was training for the
London Marathon a few years ago,and as you can imagine, it
needed a lot of training, a lotof consistency, a lot of
discipline, and sometimes I wasexactly like that. I didn't feel
like, you know, having to do a10 Mile Run that was in the
(15:24):
training routine at that time, Iwould trick myself. I see it
like this, and now I would trickmy mind by saying, Okay, I won't
do all that. I'll just do onemile. And yeah, I can do on Mile
easily. And as you were sayingthat, you know, just by showing
(15:44):
up the moment, I would beoutside with my running shoes
and start running, it wouldnever be a mile. It would
probably be the what, because itwas easier then I had already
momentum. It is exactly the mostdifficult thing is to show up.
So I share that as also my ownexample. And the third one you
(16:07):
said, and I think that isfantastic as a perspective
changing, is to look at what youare not doing us, if it is
someone else not doing it, andhow you would hold them
accountable, because we are verygood at, you know, finding
excuses for ourselves. So thankyou very much for this. I
(16:32):
reiterated with my own words,just to because these are, I
think, very practical tools,because we've all been there. We
said we would do something, andit's the last thing that we feel
like doing at that moment. Andwe need, sometimes, the the ways
or the tools, if you want to beable to snap out of it,
(16:53):
sometimes if we need to. So Idon't know if you agree with
with this.
Devan Gonzalez (16:59):
No, I do. I mean, it's that everything that
you said, like in how youreframed, it was perfect, right?
It's there. It's practical.
Sometimes it seems almost, youknow, too easy to work. But
sometimes it's just the basics.
Is All You Need, right? Youdon't need these fancy, you
know, plans and stuff thatsometimes you just have to show
(17:20):
up, right? Like you said forrunning, like sometimes it's
just telling yourself you'regonna do one mile, and then you
start, you know, get thatsnowball formed, and then all of
a sudden, instead of snowballgoing down a hill, it starts
picking up momentum. The snowstarts getting bigger, and all
of a sudden, now it's this huge,you know, Boulder of a snowball,
because it has all thatmomentum, but it's hard to get
(17:41):
that momentum going. So you tellyourself, I'm gonna do one, and
then you achieve one, well, Icould do one more. And then you
hit two, and, yeah, I still gotenergy. I'm doing one more,
three. And then you just keepthat going. It's easy just to
take your your workout, okay,I'm gonna go the gym. I'm just
gonna, I'm just gonna walk onthe treadmill today, right? And
then all of a sudden, you startseeing the other people working
(18:03):
out and pushing themselves.
Well, I could do one exercisereal quick. And then all of a
sudden, well, actually, Ihaven't done that exercise in a
while. Let me do that one,right? And then all of a sudden,
before you know it, you did awhole
Agi Keramidas (18:16):
workout. It is a, you know, it's very It's indeed,
very clever when we do it,because our mind tricks us or
tries to trick us all the time,so it's good when we have the
ability to do it for ourbenefit. Devon, I would like,
I'm going to shift gears. Andthere is one other topic that
(18:39):
I'm very much intrigued to hearyour thoughts about and you talk
about intentional action and thepower that intentional action
has. So you know, we all knowand understand that action is
necessary to achieve somethingsuccess, or whatever it is that
(19:02):
we want. What I would like tostart with is, let me hear you
define what. When you sayintentional action, what do you
mean exactly? And so we'll takeit from there.
Devan Gonzalez (19:17):
So intentional action, meaning that your your
full like doing action justmeans you're doing something,
right, but if you're going to dosomething, then do it to your
best ability, right? Give ityour full attention. Give it
your full ability, your fulleffort, right? Then if you
(19:37):
don't, because if you don't,what's the purpose of doing it
at all, right? And in that itgoes into the kind of the the
understanding that time is theonly thing that we have on this
earth that is finite, right?
That there is all a limitedamount of time, the one thing
that we don't get back. So whywaste your time doing something
with half effort? You. And stillspending the same amount of time
(20:00):
on it, instead of just gettingit done and doing it to the best
of your ability. Because again,how you do one thing is how you
do everything, right? So ifyou're gonna go to the gym, and
then you spend an hour there,but you just kind of mosey
around, you're talking witheveryone, you're not really
working out. Or you went to thegym, you worked out for an hour,
you know, and did your bestworkout that you could. To your
(20:24):
ability, you're there for anhour both times. You lose an
hour either way. But now, whatis the results of that?
Compounded a year later, ofthat, you could be in the same
place you are if you're doingthat, you know, just mosing
around, you know, checking on onFacebook so everyone knows that
you go to a gym, or a yearlater, you those compounded, you
(20:44):
know, hourly workouts that yougave your effort to, and
everything every intention toshow you don't need to check in
on Facebook. People know thatyou go, have been going to the
gym.
Agi Keramidas (20:57):
That's great.
What do you think? Because forme, when I hear the especially
the word intention, apart from,you know what you're saying, to
give to the action the best ofour ability, or focus our
attention. Do it, you know,wholeheartedly and wholly. For
me, the word intention alsoimplies some energy or something
(21:20):
mental. Apart, you know, fromthe action itself. Obviously you
can do the action very focused,but I think there is a nuance
there between focused and, youknow, to the best of our
ability, and intentional,because I think it implies
(21:40):
something else. So what are yourthoughts on that?
Devan Gonzalez (21:45):
No, yeah. So the the flip side of that, right? I
mean, that's, I try to keep iton more of them, on the basic
side, you know, kind of takingit down to the ground level for,
you know what we were talkingabout before, but intentional,
like when you're doing action,or when you're doing something,
what is the reason for you doingthis right? If you're scrolling
(22:06):
through Instagram, are you justMindlessly scrolling? Or are you
scrolling? Looking forsomething? Are you looking for
new ways to achieve your goal?
Are you looking for inspirationto get you up on the next day.
Are you looking for a new avenuein business? You know? Are you
looking but in beingintentional, there's a purpose
behind what you're doing. Whyare you doing it? Because if
(22:29):
there's no purpose behind whatyou're doing, then then why are
you doing it? Right? Why notspend that time working on
yourself? Why not spend thattime with your family, instead
of just mindlessly wasting time.
Agi Keramidas (22:48):
This is great.
Thank you. And what you youmight not have used it the same
words, but for me, you itreminded me, or what you said
prompted in me the becomingmindful of the reason why we're
doing it. So if we're sending anemail, why are we sending it
that connects us with theintention? Or if we are at the
(23:13):
gym, why or what? It is veryuseful. And you know, the
becoming aware of the moment,the attention. So that's another
part that I got from youranswer. I would like to ask you
before we start wrapping up.
(23:43):
Since, you know I was tellingyou earlier that I always enjoy
giving practical action tips tothe listener. We've already done
that, but I would like to askone of yours actually, perhaps a
personal habit, a routine,something that you feel that has
(24:03):
really made the big differencein your life, in your success,
in what you have been doing,
Devan Gonzalez (24:12):
definitely, and now, honestly, that's it's a
great question, and I will saythis, I mean my I'll use my
business as an example. Andbecause people will give me, you
know, a pat on the back and say,Wow, you're so lucky. Luck had
nothing to do with it, right?
And one of the things that hasworked really well for me, not
just in business, but in life,you know, I used to do
(24:34):
competitive, you know, fightingand stuff of that, and you start
to cut weight and all that kindof stuff. So the main thing I'm
gonna say is you have a goal,right? And set your goals big,
right? And when you set thatgoal big, you might not know the
journey there, right? And that'sokay, right? Whether it's
losing, I had to lose 30 poundsfor a month, for a fight in a
(24:56):
month, one time, right? Or.
Sorry, two months in one time,right? So goal is 30 pounds,
right? Instead of being like,Okay, I need to lose one pound,
one pound all the way up. Oh,that's not 30. Do it again. Set
the goal big, and then break itdown into smaller steps first.
(25:16):
So like, for example, you know,everyone has their New Year's
resolutions. What is the goalfor you to achieve by the end of
the year? Awesome. Now breakthat into quarterly goals. So
every, you know, three threemonths. Now, what do you need to
do to every three months toachieve this yearly goal? Then
break those quarterly goals downinto monthly goals, right? And
(25:39):
then the monthly down to weekly.
And all of a sudden you start tolook at and you're like, Oh,
that's not that bad. You know,if I could just do this every
single week, that will lead upto this. And even if it doesn't,
you'll be fairly close. I mean,I built we launched the gym. Two
years later, we launched thefranchise. A year later, we, you
know, got our first franchise. Ayear later, we have three more
(26:00):
coming on like it's again, it'severything's done if you just
stick to the plan, whether youfeel like it or you don't. But
the thing is, I didn't know whenwe opened the business, when we
were going to franchise or whatpoint, but we actually condensed
our timeline because everythingwas just lining up. So you might
(26:21):
set your yearly goal and youmight achieve it in eight
months, six months, right?
Because everything just startedworking out better in your
favour, instead of setting ayearly goal waiting until July
to really start on it, and thennow you're trying to crunch
everything in and then you don'tachieve it. Or, you know, maybe
you get close to it. Imaginewhere you could have been if you
(26:42):
just did that from thebeginning, but you're taking
small little bites out of it.
The best way to eat an elephantis one bite at a time.
Agi Keramidas (26:51):
I like that and having the goal breaking it
down, reverse engineering it to,you know, small little tanks
that are manageable. BrilliantDevon, where do you want to
direct the listener of thisconversation that wants to find
out more and connect?
Devan Gonzalez (27:10):
I mean, you can go to my website, and it's not,
I mean, there's not a lead formor anything of that. Just, I
made a website just to make alanding page for everything that
I got going on. But it's justDevin D, V, A, N, Gonzales, G,
O, N, Z, a, l, e, z.com,
Agi Keramidas (27:28):
that's great. And I also have two final quick
questions. I always ask them,and I get some very interesting
answers, so I'm curious to hearyours. And the first one is,
what does personal developmentmean to you?
Devan Gonzalez (27:47):
Personal Development, to me, is
constantly improving yourself,right? And that's the base level
answer. So that's not my fullanswer, right? That's just the
base thing. But personaldevelopment, to me, it really is
the fact that you can get betterat least 1% each day in one area
(28:08):
of your life, whether it's yourrelationship with your family,
whether it's work, whether it'sfitness, whatever your goal is
to essentially get a little bitbetter each day. And there is no
end destination, right? PersonalDevelopment is infinite. It's
like the horizon, right? Whenyou're looking at the horizon,
you can't see the end. You cansee where it gets smaller, but
(28:28):
if you were able to walk there,you would realise that it goes
out again just as far. So thesame thing for personal
development. Realise that it's anever ending journey, and you
even though you have a yearlygoal and stuff like that, that's
awesome. That's just a fractionof you becoming the version of
yourself that you were designedto be
Agi Keramidas (28:49):
so true and hypothetically, let's say you
could go back in time and meetyour 18 year old self. What's
one piece of advice you wouldgive him?
Devan Gonzalez (29:00):
18 year old self, I would have told him to
start sooner. You know, 18 yearold, 18 year old version of me
was, you know, just joiningcollege and got into the the
frat life and, you know, thefraternity life and everything
like that, you know. And notsaying that I wasn't ambitious
and motivated then, but a lot ofthe things that I've achieved
(29:20):
could have been started earlierin my journey, and I probably
would have told my 18 year oldself maybe buy a Bitcoin. You
know,
Agi Keramidas (29:28):
yes, of course, she reminded me of that phrase
that said, if I had to live mylife again, I would do the same
mistakes, only soonest. Yeah,exactly. Devon, I want to thank
you very much for thisconversation. I enjoyed it very
much, and I think there weresome very useful and practical
elements that came out of it,especially when we're talking
(29:51):
about discipline. I want to wishyou all the very best with your
life and your mission. Uh, Iwill leave it to you for your
final part in wisdom.
Devan Gonzalez (30:07):
Thank you so much for having me. And I will
say that if you have a goal, ifyou have a dream, and someone
else has already achieved it, orliving the life that you're
wanting to live, that is yourproof. That is your testimonial
to that it is possible for you,because you're not that special,
for it to not work out for you,but to be able to work out for
(30:29):
someone else.
Agi Keramidas (30:34):
I hope you found this episode enlightening, if
you have been resonating withthese conversations and feel
like you are at a crossroads inyour life, I offer one to one
coaching to help you gainclarity and step into your next
chapter with confidence. If thatsounds interesting, reach out to
(30:56):
me and let's have a conversationand until next time Stand out
don't fit in.
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