October 21, 2025 • 52 mins
What if the key to thriving wasn’t more grit—but sacred rest, radical honesty, and self-permission?
This week on Plenty, I sat down with the luminous Amanda Goetz—founder, author of Toxic Grit, and single mama of three—to talk about healing from hustle culture without losing your ambition or your edge.
Amanda and I dove deep into the cycles of burnout and rebirth so many of us experience as high-achieving women: how to rebuild after identity-shaking seasons, how to release toxic productivity patterns, and how to create boundaries that honor every version of who we are—CEO, mother, partner, sensual being, and everything in between.
She shares her refreshing concept of the 10 characters within us and how learning to let them take turns in the spotlight can transform our relationship with work, motherhood, and self-worth. We also explored what it means to practice “hustle with intention,” reclaim pleasure and sexuality as sacred sources of power, and build a life that feels abundant—not just busy.
If you’ve ever felt torn between your ambition and your well-being, or wondered how to pursue success without losing yourself, this conversation will feel like a deep exhale.
✨ In this episode, you’ll learn:
- The truth about “toxic grit” and how to replace it with intentional ambition
- Why compartmentalizing your roles can actually expand your joy and capacity
- How to communicate boundaries and priorities with those you love
- The importance of sacred rest as a catalyst for sustainable success
- How reconnecting with your sensuality can bring you home to yourself
This is one of those episodes you’ll want to revisit when you need a reminder that it’s safe to slow down, to shift, and to redefine what “having it all” truly means.
Listen to Toxic Grit, Sacred Rest & Reclaiming Sexuality with Amanda Goetz wherever you get your podcasts—and if it resonates, please share it with a friend who’s ready to trade exhaustion for alignment.
“The definition of toxic grit is hustle without intention.” -Amanda Goetz
🎤 Let’s Dive into the Good Stuff on Plenty 🎤
00:30 Introduction to Amanda Goetz and Toxic Grit
00:59 Healing from Hustle Culture
02:35 Amanda’s Journey and Background
04:22 Rebuilding After Divorce
11:23 Toxic Grit and Hustle with Intention
12:35 Setting Boundaries and Family Communication
16:54 Dealing with Projection and Expectations
23:16 Energy Management and Focus
27:54 Compartmentalization in Life Roles
36:50 The Importance of Writing and Newsletters
43:27 Exploring Sexuality and Identity
48:30 The Evolution of House of Wise and Personal Growth
Links and Resources:
Toxic Grit
Money Breakthrough Guide
Connect with Amanda Goetz:
What if you could witness a story as it’s being born — before it’s polished, before it’s perfect, before the world sees it?
I’ve spent the past few years teaching, writing, and learning alongside thousands of women about how to live and work in a way that honors our bodies, our energy, and our truth. But this next chapter — both in life and in creativity — is something entirely new.
I’m inviting you into the room while the story is unfolding.
✨ Introducing The Inside Reader — an intimate, creative experience where you’ll join me as I write my next book, a narrative nonfiction about women, money, and the body.
Instead of waiting two years for the finished book, you’ll walk with me through the process itself — the messy middle, the sacred pauses, and the moments of breakthrough that shape what’s to come.
When you step inside, you’ll receive:
- 📖 Unfiltered early chapters as I write them
- 🎙 Live Zoom circles every few weeks to explore meaning and process
- 💬 A private space for conversation and reflection
- ✨ The chance for your story or insight to shape the book itself (with your permission)
This isn’t a course or a program. It’s a living, breathing creative relationship — between you, me, and the work that’s ready to be born.
You’ll not only witness a book coming to life, but also awaken something in yourself: your creative rhythm, your voice, your connection to your body and money.
If you’ve ever longed to be part of something real — not just the highlight reel — this is your invitation to pull up a chair by the fire and help midwife what’s next.
💫 Join me inside. The story’s just
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Amanda Goetz (00:00):
So I know these kind of layers of my own onion.
There's the family layer.There's the the cultural layer.
There's the societal layer ofwhat it means to be a woman
right now. There's all of theselayers that we can start to peel
back and understand I have thoselayers and so does that person.
Hello.
Kate Northrup (00:19):
Today, my guest is Amanda Getz. Her brand new
book, Toxic Grit is out today.She's been featured by
entrepreneur, business insider,Yahoo Finance, Forbes, and more.
And she reaches over a 150,000people worldwide with her best
tips on pursuing success withoutlosing your sanity. Amanda used
(00:43):
to be or she sold a companycalled House of Wise.
She was a founder and prior tothat, she was a CMO. She worked
at The Knot and other incrediblebrands. She is a really smart
marketer. She is a single mom ofthree. She's an incredible
athlete.
She is fun. She is smart. Andtoday, we're talking about how
(01:06):
to heal from hustle culturewithout losing your edge,
without losing your ambition. Ithink so often, these
conversations around, makingmoney in softer ways or more
flow, more ease, less hustle canleave a taste in our mouths
like, but does that mean I haveto give up my ambition? Does
(01:27):
that mean I have to give up myedge?
And the answer as you'll hear inthis conversation is absolutely
not. But there are ways to do itwhere you can of course work
smarter, not harder, and getwhat you want without
sacrificing the things thatmatter. As you know, if you've
read my book, Do Less, this is aconversation that is near and
(01:50):
dear to my heart, and I'm soexcited for you to meet Amanda.
Welcome to Plenty. I'm your hostKate Northrup and together we
are going on a journey to helpyou have an incredible
relationship with money, time,and energy and to have abundance
on every possible level.
(02:12):
Every week, we're gonna dive inwith experts and insights to
help you unlock a life ofplenty. Let's go fill our cups.
Please note that the opinionsand perspectives of the guests
on the Plenty podcast are notnecessarily reflective of the
opinions and perspectives ofKate Northrop or anyone who
(02:32):
works within the Kate Northropbrand.
Amanda Goetz (02:34):
Welcome. Thank you for having me.
Kate Northrup (02:37):
This is amazing.
Amanda Goetz (02:37):
For being
Kate Northrup (02:38):
here, Amanda. I love this. You know, I don't
know if you know this, butsomehow, like, I became aware of
you. I literally have no ideahow I started following you on
Instagram, but it was like whenI moved to Miami in 2021, you
Same. Okay, you moved to Miamiin 2021.
Amanda Goetz (02:56):
Yeah. Oh, what month? August. Okay. Yeah, right
before school started.
Okay. And got down here, gotsettled, got the kids ready. Got
at it. Yeah. And I feel likeeverybody that was moving here
at that time was looking forother people who were moving
here, was
Kate Northrup (03:12):
an interesting time. Yeah, a lot of us came at
that time. So, yeah. And at thetime, you were doing your
business. Well, growing your notdoing.
Growing your business. HouseWise. Many things. And I was so
of course, like, I didn't knowyou. You and I have only met in
person quite recently.
So from what you were doingonline, was like, damn. This
(03:36):
girl has a lot of capacity. Iwas like, with the kids and the
business, and she's exercising.And she's so hot. I was like,
wow.
So my first question Hilarious.Isn't that funny?
Amanda Goetz (03:52):
I'm to cry laughing this So whole podcast,
I know
Kate Northrup (03:56):
I'm curious. Now it is whatever, like four years
later, four years later, you asof today have published your
first book, Toxic Grit, and Iwould love to know that version
of you that I came across on theinternet in probably 2021.
Amanda Goetz (04:18):
What would you tell her now? So in 2021, just
to kind of put it
Kate Northrup (04:24):
into great. Context Yeah, given that I knew
this much about you, like tinytiny sliver.
Amanda Goetz (04:30):
So I filed for divorce in 2018. I had just had
my third baby, so I had threekids under the age of four.
Divorce took about two and ahalf, three So 2020, like I was
one of those people that woke up01/01/2020 and I was like, this
is my year, I'm gonna get mylife back, I'm not gonna be the
(04:51):
woman going through a divorce.And at that time, I was leading
marketing at the Knotz, so I hada team of 50 people. I felt like
I was at the height of mycareer, and then everything kind
of came crashing down.
And when I started to feel likeI was rebuilding in 2020, the
world felt like it was And sofast forward to 2021, that was
(05:15):
the first moment of freedom thatI experienced in years. I got
married when I was engaged at19. Married at I 20 read
Kate Northrup (05:25):
that in your book, and I was like, oh wow,
that's young.
Amanda Goetz (05:29):
Yeah. How old is your oldest now? 11. Yeah.
Kate Northrup (05:33):
So can you imagine in eight years?
Amanda Goetz (05:35):
I can't. What? I can't.
Kate Northrup (05:37):
Yeah. So
Amanda Goetz (05:38):
But you know They've they've signed, like,
invisible contracts with me thatthey're not getting married till
05:30. Till 02:30.
Kate Northrup (05:45):
Okay. Great.
Amanda Goetz (05:45):
I was like, at least until you made a conscious
choice of who you are and whatyou want. But that moment, 2021,
was my ability to spread mywings and see who the fuck I
was. And part of that wasthrough House of Wise, and it's
funny because looking back whatI would tell her is that was a
(06:08):
stepping stone, not the end, butwhen you're building a business,
that feels like everything. Yep.And and when we grew really
fast, but we also raised VCcapital, so we had to keep
growing really fast, and then wecouldn't sustain it, and so then
we sold.
And at that time I had anotherjust horrible crash again
(06:32):
because I was like, oh my entireidentity is wrapped up in this
business. It's like, this is whoI am. I'm a founder. And then
when that came crashing down Iwas like, well I don't know who
I am again. So it was a lot ofjust and I talk about this a lot
in the book of the cycles oflife, and that's actually part
(06:54):
of it is just continuing to remeet yourself and the different
parts of yourself.
And I kept trying to merge themall and say, okay, I'm a
founder. It's like, okay, thatwas one part of me, but I put
everything into that basket.Yeah. So now I think you're
meeting me now at this timewhere I have neatly placed these
(07:18):
roles in their own compartmentsso that I can see that I'm not
all just one thing. I'm not allmom, I'm not all partner because
I'm now getting married again.
I'm not all founder. I'm all ofthese things but in their own
containers. So you talk aboutthese 10 characters that we
have, which I love that concept.I've been a long time in therapy
(07:42):
with internal family systemstherapy parts work, so huge fan.
Also, I have a theaterbackground, so I'm like, yes.
Right. Exactly.
Kate Northrup (07:49):
We are all playing our roles. We are. Yeah.
It's a very helpful Our mutualfriend Liz, which is how I met
you, I interviewed her once, andshe talked about and it was when
we we had like really youngkids, and she was doing her
business, learn to make aproduct, and she talked about
how the way she was makingeverything work was to know that
(08:12):
she could be an A in one area,but it was totally fine to be a
B plus or even a C in otherareas and not have this
ridiculous idea that we're gonnabe all in with all of our roles
at the same time. So I love yourconcept to to give us permission
to like you don't have to belike the straight A student in
all of them.
You don't have to be the allstar athlete and the magna cum
(08:35):
laude or summa, whatever. Idon't remember which one which.
It really doesn't matter, butlike and the top founder and the
whatever. But I am curious, soyou mentioned just now
compartmentalization, and Iwanna know, is there an example
or a time right in your liferight now as you're, you know,
(08:55):
the truth is this episode comesout on pub day, but we're
recording it obviously far inadvance. So you are getting
ready.
So you're in preparation phasefor launching How a are some of
those roles that you playinforming each other and
actually helping to bolster oneanother right now?
Amanda Goetz (09:14):
So two things. One, the idea that you can't
have all the characters in thespotlight. Like imagine watching
a show and all main characterswere constantly trying to
progress forward at the sametime, right? Chaotic. It's
chaotic.
Kate Northrup (09:30):
Yeah. And ultimately actually boring. When
I think about watching a showlike that, if all 10 were all
there all at the same time, wasboring and not enough depth.
Amanda Goetz (09:39):
And the flip side of that, which is what I fear
happens to many women, is one ortwo characters takes over the
entire plot line. Mhmm. That'salso boring. Yeah. You're right.
Because you need those othercharacters to infuse the levity
Yeah. And the fun. So we havethat cast of characters inside
of ourselves. And for me,gearing up for a season where I
(10:03):
know that my work character or Icall it the CEO character, but
the person that really theversion of me that cares about
achievement and my goals andfinancial success. So funny
because she doesn't play wellwith kids.
Right? Like when I'm in workmode and my kids try to come in,
(10:23):
I realize, and that was a bigpart of separating these things.
Because whenever I tried tomerge the two I'm snapping at
them, I'm not foking. Butgearing up for a time in my
life, it's about awareness ofwhich character is going to take
some more spotlight. The secondpart is creating boundaries.
Where are you allowing othercharacters to come in? And then
(10:47):
communicating with the peoplearound you how long is this
going to be a Yes, totally. Andthen having that checkpoint. So
I know December 1 when I'mthrough, you know, I go on the
book tour, December 1 I have acheckpoint and I'm going to
reprioritize and for the nextfour weeks, kids, family is
(11:11):
everything. We're going on a bigtrip, we're so excited.
And they all know that. And theyalso are in the fold because
I've communicated to them whythis is important for me. And I
say like the definition of toxicgrit is hustle without
intention. We created these kindof binary pendulums I think for
women that are reallyexhausting. Right?
(11:33):
Like there was the you and Iwere just talking about like
kind of the girl boss era,right, where it was like, okay,
the the path to being aninspiring woman is to build
companies and break glassceilings, etcetera, lean in.
Well, a lot of women burnt out,so then we swung the pendulum
over here and it's like, wellno, be completely in your
(11:54):
feminine, be a trad wife, bethis. For most people
Kate Northrup (11:57):
But also grow a killer following while you're
Amanda Goetz (12:00):
But also may like, look amazing and make the
perfect stuff, like, sourdoughwhatever. But most of us live in
the middle of and so how do westop creating these, like,
binary pendulum swings? It'shustle with intention. Why is
this important to you? Why doesthis build towards the next
goal?
And communicate that to peopleso that they're a part of that
(12:23):
decision, not just, oh, wellsociety is telling me to go do
this thing so I go do it. Howold is your youngest? Seven.
Kate Northrup (12:31):
So you have a seven, a what, and an 11?
Amanda Goetz (12:33):
Seven, nine, 11.
Kate Northrup (12:34):
Seven, nine, okay. I have a seven, nine. I
just don't have the 11 year old.So I'm thinking about, as you
say this, so my mom came outwith her first book when I was
11.
Amanda Goetz (12:42):
Oh my gosh.
Kate Northrup (12:43):
Yeah. And it was You know, was so proud of her,
but I was also 11, and I waslike, why do you work all the
time? And I just want to say,like, I love the way you're
communicating with yourchildren, I'm assuming with your
fiance as Like, okay, this isgonna be all in for this period
of time, and then there's a dateat which we will reorganize, and
(13:06):
you'll get more of me back forthis role. I think that's also
really helpful as a businessowner because when we publish
books, it can be this open endedloop of forever of like now I'm
supposed to be hustling to sellthis thing for the rest of my
life, and it can feel thispressure of like, oh, it did
(13:28):
well in the first week, so now Ihave to even Like do I was
texting a girlfriend of mine,and she was like, I'm feeling
all She became a bestseller, andshe was like, I'm feeling all
this pressure. Now everyone'stelling me I have to keep at it
and do more and do more, and Iwas like, girl, that thing's
gonna keep selling itself.
Like, just lie down. So I lovethat you have a stop date.
That's so smart. How did youdecide what the date was? Not
(13:50):
stop like you're not gonna sellyour book anymore.
Yeah. But I understand. Like,the the season will then shift.
Amanda Goetz (13:56):
So I have a story and then I'll answer that So the
story, when I was a single momwith three young kids, I was
leading marketing for a bigteam, and I had to leave every
day at 4PM. Because my kids, youknow, when they're that little,
they go to bed at like 06:30.
Kate Northrup (14:15):
Totally, you have no time after school. No.
Daycare or whatever.
Amanda Goetz (14:19):
So I needed to get home, relieve the nanny so that
I could do bath and get themfed, and then then it's like
seven and everybody's asleep. SoI knew that if I needed to look
at emails I could do that at07:30 whatever. At my
performance review I remembertalking to someone, it was not
my direct boss but somebodyelse, and they were like well
you're hitting all your goals,but you leave at four every day.
(14:43):
And I was like, yeah? Well justwhat would happen if you stayed
till six?
Think about how much more youwould do. And it's this elusive
enough that we're constantlyfacing that, yeah, my capacity
does not equal my my capabilityand what I actually want to do.
(15:04):
Capacity does not equal likealignment in what you're going
for at the macro level. So forme I know that I I do wanna
write books and this is a bigpart of that. It's a big journey
into this next step.
And I want to have a greatrelationship and I want to be a
present mom. And so figuring outwhat those I call it a spin
(15:28):
cycle because when you use awashing machine like the spin
cycle alleviates all theheaviness. Mhmm. What does a
spin cycle look for you torecheck in with yourself to say,
okay. I just pushed for a littlebit with this character.
Whether that's your momcharacter or caregiver character
or your explorer character,you've been traveling a lot, run
(15:48):
a spin cycle. You've beenpushing really hard with one
character. Allow yourself tokind of alleviate the intensity
from that character, good orbad, like whatever it is, and
say what what does the nextseason look like? And for some
people during that spin cyclethey may say I'm ready to keep
going. Yeah.
And so for me December is a timefor me to check-in, say wow is
(16:13):
this filling me up? Is thisgiving me energy? To what
extent? And also what am Isacrificing to get that? So I
think it's really important tohave check ins with yourself to
say, is this still in alignment?
And to give yourself permissionto let another character come in
and say, I'm good right
Kate Northrup (16:34):
Or to go for a second season. Yeah. Right? If
that's appropriate. And I thinkit's the we have such a tendency
to just keep going without everpulling our head up.
Yeah. To look around and belike, oh wait, let me reassess.
So I think that's so smart. Iwould imagine, you know, you
talked about boundary setting,you know, you talked about this
(16:56):
person at your performancereview being like, imagine what
would happen if you stayed untilsix, which by the way, their
comment was completely non databacked. Because actually what we
see is that there is acompletely diminishing rate of
return if you stay longer andsit at your computers.
There is not at all an increasein productivity. It actually
decreases. That's, and probablythose extra two hours would have
(17:17):
started eating away at yourresults for the previous hours
as well. That's anotherconversation for another day.
Yeah.
But I would imagine along theway, you know, you're a
successful woman, you are goodlooking, you are articulate,
right? You are you are, youknow, and you have been through
a lot, and I know that, and Ionly know a small, very small
(17:40):
percentage. However, I wouldimagine that people project on
you and get annoyed when you sayno or set a boundary or
whatever, whether it's around awork thing, whether it's a
personal thing, whether it's themoms at drop off, whether it's
your family, I don't really knowyou, but I'm imagining this
(18:01):
happens.
Amanda Goetz (18:01):
Check, check, check.
Kate Northrup (18:02):
And I know that the avoidance of the discomfort
of those projections and peoplefeeling some kind of way about
the way we've chosen to livetheir lives and us not being the
way they expect us or not beingthe way that's comfortable for
them, the avoidance of thatdiscomfort keeps so many women
from going after what they wantand keeps them playing a role
(18:25):
that ultimately doesn't evenbelong in their cast of
characters, like it's not eventhem to begin with. How do you
deal with projection, withpeople being disappointed in
you, random strangers on theinternet, your mother, you know,
whoever.
Amanda Goetz (18:40):
All of that, yeah. So the first thing, I've done a
ton of work, right? So doing alot of the internal work to know
what script of your movie wasgiven to you versus written by
you, right? And so I'm veryaware of what stuff, what is my
(19:01):
stuff, what is my programmingthat was given to me because of
my upbringing. I grew up in afirst generation college, like I
was the first person to go tocollege in my family, I grew up
very poor, and so there's a lotof programming that was handed
to me of like, oh wealthy peoplemean x, And so I know these kind
(19:23):
of layers of my own onion.
There's the family layer,there's the the cultural layer,
there's the societal layer ofwhat it means to be a woman
right now. There's all of theselayers that we can start to peel
back and understand I have thoselayers and so does that person.
Kate Northrup (19:40):
So
Amanda Goetz (19:42):
I can look at that and hold that that's not
actually mine and put a littlebubble around myself and say
that's their layers that they'reworking through. And that's not
for me to take on. The secondpiece of that is, and I know we
were talking about this a littlebit, I've now met with a
hypnotherapist, and I did thislike crazy five hour session
(20:05):
realizing how early we makedecisions about ourselves. Like
from the time one of my memoriesthat I was like, how do I have
this memory? Was when I was inthe hospital as a baby at a
subconscious level, and I'm surepeople are gonna be like, this
sounds so woo woo.
Kate Northrup (20:25):
Not my people.
Amanda Goetz (20:27):
I had a vision because my mom, I was in
emergency C section and then sheended up getting sepsis and
almost died, and I didn't see mymom for seven days. I never
connected that with anything ofmy adult life. In this
hypnotherapy session I sawmyself in the little room with
(20:48):
all the nurses walking aroundand I felt alone. And I was
like, Oh, I made decision thenthat I need to make sure that
people didn't leave me. Wow.
And so in this session she hadme make a different decision.
Like it's not my job to beperfect so people will stay. And
(21:11):
it's really freeing to realizethat when you can go back and
kind of make a differentdecision for yourself, how you
operate in a very differentreframe because that's not your
default decision. I'm scaredthat if I don't respond to my
friend immediately I'm going tolose them as a friend. If I stop
(21:34):
looking at that situation thatway and say that's not my
responsibility, I'm prioritizingthis right now, I will get to
that in a little bit, and if Ilose them as a friend they
weren't meant to be in my lifeand supporting me.
So I think realizing that thereare some decisions we made about
ourselves that we can choose nowas adults to take the different
(21:56):
decision.
Kate Northrup (21:57):
What's so powerful about what you're
saying is that according to oursubconscious and our psyche and
our nervous system, all time isnow. Our bodies have no sense of
time. And that's why the powerof visualization works, right,
for Olympic athletes and allthis stuff. It also works with
this because we actually canrewire ourselves so that that
(22:22):
decision literally now wasdifferent. Like it's not just,
oh, that was a cool exercise,and now I feel better.
Like, now you're different.Yeah. Because all time is now
according to your psyche, whichis what's so powerful about
therapies like hypnotherapy. Ilove that so much. That's
incredible.
Amanda Goetz (22:40):
And so when I feel projection or anything, I can
say this is not my job to earntheir love or attention. It's
not
Kate Northrup (22:48):
my job. So before we came on today, my team sent a
little email with a correctionto you, and you had responded
very graciously and said, Noworries, this is a sign that you
guys are focused on the rightAnd I know that one of your
topics that you're so good at isaround energy management and
(23:11):
focusing on the right things toget the result that we're
actually after. So how do youhelp people who are overwhelmed
with You and I both know. Whenyou're running a business, there
is literally an infinite numberof things you could put your
attention on. Possibilities forgrowth, this opportunity, that
collaboration.
(23:31):
And I hear from people all thetime, I'm just overwhelmed. I
don't know where to start. Doyou help people cut through that
quagmire and focus on the rightthings?
Amanda Goetz (23:42):
Yeah. So I'll give the most simple answer and then
I'll kind of work backwards. SoI talk about my to do list, like
the number to do list. Every dayI look at the different
characters that I've placed asimportant for that day and I say
what are two things that I canmove forward that would
(24:03):
meaningfully develop thatcharacter's storyline, plotline,
whatever. So for today, forwork, I needed to work on a deck
that would meaningfully movesomething forward, and I needed
to put together a project plan.
Two meaningful things. Okay. Ifocused and finished those two
(24:24):
things in about an hour and ahalf. Yeah. Because when you
actually know what you'refocused on, you remove
distractions, you can actuallyhit flow state pretty quickly.
Right? So I separate parking lotversus priorities. My parking
lot's massive. I've got like a10 story parking lot and it is
full at capacity. But every dayI look at that parking lot and
(24:48):
say, well what's giving meenergy?
What what do I feel like is on alevel of impact and effort?
Where is that falling in thequadrants? And say, well okay,
I'll work on this one. And I putthat literally on a post it note
in front of me. When I get thosetwo things done I get the
satisfaction of throwing it thetrash can.
But the same thing goes forbeing a parent, being a partner.
(25:12):
If I can do two things well,intentionally well as a parent
in the day, if that means I'mgoing to sit and be super
intentional at dinner time, andI'm going to give each kid a
thirty minute tuck in like I dolike the little rotation, right?
If I can do that well but I wasshuffling around in the morning,
(25:36):
right? Like it's okay I did twothings well and that's enough.
And I think the word enoughkeeps coming back over and over
again of you've said that thesewere the priorities for today,
that's as much as you can do sothat you can develop a couple of
characters.
And we as highly ambitiouswomen, we think that I have to,
(25:59):
like you said, an A plus ineverything. Well it's okay if
those two things is an a and ac. Like if I can't go get a full
workout in and I just go and I'mlike, alright, I'm gonna walk on
the treadmill for ten minutesand scroll TikTok because that's
like what I need right now.Mhmm. Okay.
That's fine. But just figuringout what are the biggest things
(26:22):
that will have the most impact,saying that's enough and then
moving on to the next role thatyou play. That's to me when I
coach people and talk to people,I'll look at their day and their
context switching like a crazyperson, just like they're doing
emails and then they jump to alittle bit of a project, then
they jump over here. Studieshave shown that context
(26:46):
switching is horrible.
Kate Northrup (26:48):
I know, but we're so addicted
Amanda Goetz (26:49):
to We're so addicted to it. So it's people
are looking for this complexanswer, but the the answer is
very simple. Focus and finish.If I could be really great
during our conversation and thenshut off work mode and then go
straight to dinner with friends
Kate Northrup (27:07):
Yeah.
Amanda Goetz (27:07):
They get all of me as a friend and you get all of
me in this conversation. But ifI was multitasking and like
trying to text them before it'slike that doesn't work. You have
to give yourself the space to befully present, and I think this
is where guilt comes from.Trying to be multiple versions
(27:28):
of ourselves at one time. Like Isaid, my work mode and mom mode
and partner mode, none of thosereally mesh well together.
If I want to be intimate or feelsensual, I can't see my kids.
Right. And I can't see emails.And so allowing myself to say
(27:52):
what does compartmentalizationlook like? How can I focus and
finish and give my all to thisversion of myself?
Is actually the way that I canmove things forward more
effectively.
Kate Northrup (28:02):
Yeah. Okay, so we're having a really great left
brain conversation right now,which I, wait, yep, which I so
appreciate because I live forthe logistics of, I'm not, I
will say I'm not naturallyactually that good at this sort
of thing that you're talkingabout, even though I did write a
book about it. I guess I've hadto learn the hard way. I'm
(28:27):
actually I'm gonna ask youanother question, but wait.
Before we do that, I have onemore question about the
logistics.
In the parking lot, the 10 storygarage, every day when you're
pulling out your to do list,which I love, Obviously, you're
not going through every car onall 10 stories. So higher level,
like, is do you have some kindof system or way that you're
(28:51):
holding well, so it's thecharacters. Right? So you kinda
know the priorities for theseason or whatever, for the
week, for the month, like, is itintuitive? How do you how do you
pull out those two things?
Amanda Goetz (29:01):
Yeah. There's a whole chapter on this. Right.
But at a highest level, youfirst have to know what's what
are you moving towards? What'syour why?
Like, where are you going inthis season? So like right now,
okay, book tour is the season.Yeah. Right? So now I can
prioritize certain things overother things.
Like and I've communicated thatto my friends. I won't see you
(29:23):
till December. See you later.Right? Like and they know that,
and they're there to support mebecause I've communicated that.
Now when you look every week atyour parking lot, you have to
understand and I I worked withtons of engineers, so I work in
two week sprints. Right? It'slike what are what is the big
project I'm focused on for twoweeks at a time? And usually at
(29:45):
work you can start to say like,okay, if I actually did let's
take a very simple example. Sayyou wanted to relaunch your
website.
What I would do with somebody ifI was coaching them, I'd say
we're gonna Kit Kat this. We'regonna break it down. Okay? You
want a new website. Well thatmeans you have to write copy for
that website.
Mhmm. You have to maybe takepictures for that website. You
(30:08):
need to determine where thebuttons are going and maybe that
leads to you have to create anew asset. You break it down. So
this big thing that was maybe inyour parking lot, like new
website, actually gets brokendown into 10 or so things that
you've Kit Katted.
And then you say, well that's mysprint for two weeks. Then I
(30:32):
learned What are they Kit Kats?Yeah, so landing page, like
know. New Menews your questions,
Kate Northrup (30:38):
I know. Wait.
Amanda Goetz (30:39):
So landing page is your sprint for two weeks.
Kate Northrup (30:41):
Got it.
Amanda Goetz (30:42):
And then you've Kit Katted it into 10 different
parts. I would put those all onPost it notes, and then every
day
Kate Northrup (30:48):
You just take one. Two.
Amanda Goetz (30:50):
And so imagine, something that feels like, oh, a
new website, that's gonna takeme months. If you broke it down
and you actually focused andfinished, you'd have it done in
ten days.
Kate Northrup (31:01):
So are you largely in your work life
working on one thing at a time?Yes. I mean, give or take. The
one thing right now is booklaunch. Yep.
Right, so it's a big thing.Yeah. But then this one thing
has these smaller pieces. Andthen what about all the other
things? Well, obviously, they'recontributing, right?
(31:21):
Like your social mediacontributes, your newsletter
contributes, so all the rowersare rowing in the same direction
Amanda Goetz (31:27):
Yeah.
Kate Northrup (31:27):
As it were.
Amanda Goetz (31:28):
And so I think about offense versus defense
time. Offense is I have theball, I'm moving it forward, I'm
moving towards a goal. Defenseis other people need me, I need
to be in meetings, I need to beon social, I need to respond to
Slack, all of that. I have toseparate those two.
Kate Northrup (31:42):
Mhmm.
Amanda Goetz (31:42):
Because offense time is deep work time. I gotta
create. Yep. I have to think.Defense, I need to respond.
Right? So I make sure that twohours a day are just offense. I
am fully focused on the two Postit notes in front of me and I
get those things done. And Iknow you talk a lot about this,
(32:05):
being in tune with your body andknowing when you can hit that
focused time. I know for me,morning, focus, get that work
done, and then twelve to threeis my meeting time.
If people need me, that's whenI'm and then I have two pockets
for email admin time, and theneverything else is delegated.
Kate Northrup (32:24):
And then like the kids come home and that's it.
Amanda Goetz (32:26):
Yeah. I have to be done with work at three. Yeah.
Because kids get out of schooland then they have to be taken
to everything, and so I have tobe done at three, and I also
need to make sure I have timefor movement in So my yeah,
offense versus defense was a bigunlock for me to say, I have the
parking lot, I'm gonna breakthose things into little smaller
(32:49):
things that are achievable in aone to two hour time block. I
focus and finish on those andthen I move on to all of the
other stuff.
Yep. But that's moving the bigthing forward that we tend to
look at a to do list and we lookat the easiest thing to do, and
then you don't ever havemeaningful time to move the big
(33:10):
project forward. So flip it onits head, do the big project
first, and then everything elsekind of fits in.
Kate Northrup (33:17):
Yeah, and it really does, for anyone who's
listening feeling like, how doesshe get it all done before three
and move her body and only havemeetings from twelve to three
and, you know, and and and.Quite frankly, when you devote
your best hours of the day tothe most important thing,
everything else pretty muchworks out, or you realize it
(33:39):
wasn't that important, and itcan be canceled, rescheduled,
delegated to somebody else, butit becomes obvious because the
big thing is the big thing isthe big thing, and then it's
done, and then you're like, oh,great, so that's done now.
Amanda Goetz (33:51):
The significance trap is real. Yeah. Is something
actually as important as youdeem it to be? Right. And I
always use the ten ten tenframework, like will this matter
in ten minutes?
Will this matter in ten hours?Will this matter in ten days?
Like your friend texting youtheir their crazy date story or
(34:12):
whatever, they'll be fine in tenhours. Like, I can respond.
Right?
Your kid needing to be picked upfrom the school because they're
sick, that's you you got it. Soit's just a significance
expectation and and radar tosay, is this actually as
important as I'm making it? Andto your point, like a lot of
things there's a lot of cars inmy parking lot that are really
(34:33):
dusty. Yep. Because I actuallyrealize they're not
Kate Northrup (34:37):
as important and meaningful to moving everything
else forward. Totally. We weused to have a president of our
company who kept a little, like,vintage tea kettle on her desk,
and when I would give her anidea because I'm like an idea
machine.
Amanda Goetz (34:53):
I've You're a
Kate Northrup (34:54):
starter. Oh my gosh. And finishing things is
literally so hard for me, whichis why I married my husband. He
is just so good at taking itacross the finish line. But she
would in meetings with me, shedid not tell me this until a
year after we were workingtogether.
Amanda Goetz (35:11):
Yeah, I'm so excited.
Kate Northrup (35:12):
She would take down my idea, and she would be
like, absolutely, and she wouldwrite it down and just really
meet me where I was, and thenshe would put it in the tea
kettle, the little thing on herdesk, and then she would only
ever pull it out again if Imentioned it again at another
time because I'm the queen ofgetting all my energy around
(35:37):
something new and then gettingit going, and then well, I used
to be. I've really broken thathabit, So But the
Amanda Goetz (35:44):
world needs starters, and the world
Kate Northrup (35:45):
needs finishers.
Amanda Goetz (35:46):
Yes. Like finishers can't create a ton of
ideas, and so for me, everyquarter I'll look at excuse me,
sorry. I'll look at all of theideas that I've had, and I'll
pick one or two and say thoseare the ones I'm gonna spend my
time on, like watching anewsletter or Yeah. A course or
whatever it is. You're allowedto have all those ideas.
(36:08):
You just have to a vehicle toput them in. A tea kettle.
Kate Northrup (36:11):
A tea kettle. Or whatever. Okay. So wanna know a
little bit more about yournewsletter. It's funny, you
know, I've been in this industryfor a long time, and in twenty
two thousand nine, I started anewsletter.
Been writing it ever since.Smiles. It's great. And then
everybody somewhere along theway turned to social media, and
(36:33):
I was like, I mean not that Iwasn't there, but I was like,
Hi. Just email us, email us,email us.
And then it's so funny becausemany of my friends in the
industry who've been around fora long time are like launching
newsletters, which is thegreatest idea ever. I completely
agree, and I think I've nevertaken mine seriously enough. So
(36:55):
maybe, whatever. Anyway, but I'mcurious for you, you know, for
people listening, like lookingat what's working now, trends,
whatever, as you looked at thewhole landscape of the coaching
world, personal development,authors, thought leaders, you
know, whatever, what had youdecide you were gonna double
down on a newsletter?
Amanda Goetz (37:12):
First and foremost, was about developing
the skill of writing. Oh great.And I I believe in truly loving
the process of something, notthe outcome. Right? Like if
you're gonna start something youhave to do it don't just say
like, I wanna run a marathon.
It's like no, I want this timeto I go learn to love to write.
(37:33):
I've always loved writing. I'vebeen a marketer my whole career
and I'm always like, I'll writethe copy, I'll do that. It's
fine, I'll write the emails. Andthis was my the newsletter came
from me wanting to see if a bookwas in my future.
Kate Northrup (37:47):
Got it.
Amanda Goetz (37:48):
Right? If that was maybe the end goal, can I write
800 to a thousand words and sitdown and do that? And how did
that feel? Did that give meenergy? And it did.
I loved it. And so that's when Iknew that I wanted to go down
the book route. And I'd grown toover a 100,000 followers on
Twitter at the time because Ilove writing, that was the
(38:10):
platform that I, back in theday, used. And I got hacked and
lost full access. It washorrible.
Woah. Whole other story of likepeople were these people in
Europe were scamming people formoney and because I'm like very
vulnerable online, it was likepeople thought it was me and it
(38:32):
was so bad. So it was thisdouble edged sort of I knew that
I needed to have greater controlover my audience and I wanted to
love this skill of writing. Sothat was newsletter opened up
everything for me. Now I hadbeen building a personal brand,
but obviously on a platform thatnow I can't swing a cat and get
(38:55):
a tweet to go viral.
Like, it's so that's the issuewith algorithms and picking and
going all in on a platform.Totally. So now I'm like
starting over. I'm like, oh,okay, Instagram, I'm there now.
That used to just be like mykids eating broccoli, and now
it's like, okay, here's all mythoughts.
But you can have more controland agency when you have an
(39:17):
email list as you know, and soit's so powerful.
Kate Northrup (39:20):
I love that. And what are you doing? What are
some of your best tips formaking your newsletters
readable, relevant, andsomething that people look
forward to and open and engagewith. Because a lot of people
are like, no one reads emails,and I'm like, no, no, no. There
are several newsletters or justemails even if the person
(39:43):
doesn't call it a newsletter,that I would say I open and read
80% of them, because even if Idon't know the person, I have
built a relationship with them.
Social, Compared which is morelike whatever even is happening
over there. What are you doingto infuse yours with that
(40:04):
energy?
Amanda Goetz (40:05):
There's a couple of different formats of
newsletters. Right? There's theI'm gonna go be kind of a
flashlight and shine a light onall these other topics,
etcetera. I chose to be more ofwhat I call a porch light. Like
I'm going to be with you.
I'm learning with you, and I'mgoing to share a story of
(40:26):
something I learned, and thenturn it into a tactical exercise
or takeaway for you to say, Ifthis is something you also feel
like you're working through,walking through, here are some
steps that helped me. And theauthenticity of feeling like you
are third type of creator,there's porch lights bringing
(40:50):
people in, there's flashlightslooking at other people, and
then there's what do you callit? A boat that looks
lighthouse. Yeah. I'm like,what's that word?
I'll get there. I felt like Iwas playing charades. You know,
the thing with It's
Kate Northrup (41:04):
nautical. Right. There's an anchor.
Amanda Goetz (41:08):
So a lighthouse, those are the people who you're
like, I don't know if I'll everget there. They're so
aspirational. I've chosen theporch light. It's like, come in,
let's do this together. I'm notperfect.
I share all of my things, like,all the lessons I'm learning. I
don't pretend to know it all,but I'm growing with you. And I
(41:30):
think that that has led to itgrowing the fastest because
there's a lot of guru type stuffout there that I think people
are starting to have an allergicreaction.
Kate Northrup (41:41):
Yeah, it's annoying. To
Amanda Goetz (41:42):
Yeah, it's like there are no 10 simple steps to
do anything. So true. There'sjust not. And so I'm not going
to pretend that there are, I'mbut gonna give you some
frameworks or some new ways tolook at it that helped me think
about it differently.
Kate Northrup (41:56):
Yeah, realistic, it's human, but it's also really
a smart way of looking at life.Because if we change the way
that we're relating to things,our results do shift. And sit
around in this industry longenough and you realize no one
knows what they're doing anyway,and so why pretend like it on
Amanda Goetz (42:16):
the internet? No, I know. It's so funny. I mean,
you know, you've been in theworld the creator world and been
around a lot of people. Everytime I put somebody on a
pedestal, and then I well, Ieventually meet that person, and
I'm like, oh, they also don'tknow.
Kate Northrup (42:36):
Okay, cool. But I think that's just part of our
humanity to constantly be like,oh wait, maybe them. Maybe And
then you're like, oh no, justonce again. However, that
doesn't mean we can't beaspirational and learn from
people, and be like, do actuallyseem to really know what you're
doing in this one arena, and Ireally do wanna listen to
(42:58):
everything you have to say onthat topic. Yeah.
I'm like that. I go so deep withsomeone. Same. And I'm just
like, I don't need to takemarriage advice from someone
who's been divorced 10 times,but in one area, I'm like, I'll
learn how to grow my email listfrom you all day long. Exactly.
Okay. So hard left. Hard left.
Amanda Goetz (43:21):
It's not a card
Kate Northrup (43:21):
I was gonna go here before, but then I wanted
to ask more logisticalquestions. One of the things so
you talked about in your bookthat you realized either as you
were getting divorced or after,I don't know the timeline, that
you were bisexual, and one ofthe things you've talked about a
lot, like whatever, a lot, butyou are definitely someone who
(43:42):
is essentially expressed womanin public. And I would love to
hear more about how yourrelationship with your body,
your sexuality, and yoursensuality inform, if at all,
anything about your business,and if not, you can just be
like, they don't.
Amanda Goetz (44:00):
It's so interesting because I
compartmentalize them becausethat's how I view it. So like I
said, I got engaged so young. Iwas in college, never had and I
grew up very religious,Catholic, and so I didn't really
and I'm from a very small ruraltown, so I had no even template
of what it looked like toexplore your sexuality. Then I
(44:24):
find myself in my 30s divorced,running a sexual health and
wellness company, and like
Kate Northrup (44:31):
Which was House of Wise. Yes. Right, and so for
folks who don't know, what wasthe company?
Amanda Goetz (44:36):
The company was giving women permission to take
control of their sleep, sex,stress, and strength through
four different productverticals, yeah. And they were
originally formulated gummies.
Kate Northrup (44:45):
They were great. Thank you. You're welcome.
Amanda Goetz (44:48):
And they worked.
Kate Northrup (44:49):
Yeah. So
Amanda Goetz (44:51):
at that time it was, like I said, my identity in
House of Wise was really I see.
Kate Northrup (44:56):
Yes, it was very much part of the brand.
Amanda Goetz (44:58):
Because I was exploring my sexuality at that
time and started to date womenand had a girlfriend for a
while, and it was interestingbecause I learned so much about
myself through that exploration.And I have to say being learning
(45:19):
that you're bisexual later inlife after dating men your whole
life, and then also choosing andfalling in love and marrying a
man also gives this is stilllike a layered thing for me of
like taking up space in thisconversation because there's a
part of it that feels like, am Itruly valid in taking up space?
(45:44):
But I loved both men and women,and it's it's been a beautiful
part of my journey that allowedme to continue to realize that I
can break boxes. Yeah. Like ifanything, it was a reminder that
what was given to me, any ofthese scripts that were told
(46:06):
like, oh, I was an athlete mywhole life, I have a very I know
you talk a lot in masculinefeminine energies, I present
very feminine.
I'm a very masculine energyperson.
Kate Northrup (46:22):
Yeah.
Amanda Goetz (46:22):
And that I think allowing myself to see what that
felt like in differentrelationship dynamics was so
freeing.
Kate Northrup (46:33):
Because
Amanda Goetz (46:34):
in most heteronormative relationships I
suppress my masculine to be inmy feminine for my partner. And
I think that that's what led meto be with someone who I can be
both, I can actually embody bothin different times. And it's why
(46:57):
I'm so happy with Dan, myperson, because allowing myself
to explore that part of me ledme to find somebody that allowed
me to exist in both of thosemultitudes.
Kate Northrup (47:12):
That's so beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, and I
think that when we have thecourage to break out of a box in
one area of our life, which youobviously did in your divorce,
and then becoming a founderafter having a corporate job,
and then around sexuality, andthen whatever, right? I'm sure
there's lots of other examples.It does get, you know, it
(47:35):
builds, you're probably aware ofthis, it builds something called
self efficacy where then we cancall upon that in completely
different contexts.
So while it may not be that thatone area is directly impacting,
it's like that we are who we arein all the different roles, and
you're gonna bring those skillsets laterally. For sure.
Amanda Goetz (47:56):
You can't talk. Right. Allowing one character to
express themselves and pushboundaries builds that muscle
that the other characters have.So now I can push boundaries in
my business because I know thatany time I've pushed a boundary
I grow and expand.
Kate Northrup (48:15):
Yeah.
Amanda Goetz (48:16):
So it's just really beautiful when you can
allow yourself to do that in onearea and watch it happen in the
others for sure.
Kate Northrup (48:25):
This may seem like a very obvious question or
I don't know, but I wanna knowwhy did you write this book?
Amanda Goetz (48:32):
There's a story that I tell in the book that
this book has kind of beenpercolating for years since my
divorce. And House of Wise wasactually the book in CPG wrapped
form. Right? It's givingyourself permission to be in
multitudes. And we say that, buthow?
(48:55):
It's like how do I have anactive sex life and be a present
mom and work? It's like how?Tell me how. But so there's the
story I tell in the book where Iwas at work all day, I raced
home, let the nanny go, I'mputting the kids in the bathtub,
I'm getting the kids ready forbed and I get them down and the
two are in their cribs and I'mrocking the baby and
(49:17):
breastfeeding the baby and I'mjust like sweat dripping down my
boobs, like all of it, you know?Because at that point, I'm a
single mom.
And I took out my phone and Iwrote the words, you can have it
all, and I just stared at it.And it just wasn't clicking for
me. And then I realized that thething that was not clicking was
(49:40):
the you. Because the mom insideof me doesn't care about going
to work. She wanted to just stayhome and rock the babies.
The person I am at work doesn'twant to leave it for. Yeah. And
like the party girl inside of medoesn't want to be ruining my
boobs like breastfeeding. Yes.Like there's these different
(50:04):
yous inside of you.
And that was the moment for meto start to allow myself to give
space for the fact that I havethese competing versions of
myself. And so House of Wisethen was this evolution of that
to say, give yourself permissionto experience pleasure. Like
(50:27):
what does that look like? Whatdo you need? Do you need space?
Do you need a routine? And sothis book is just a continuing
evolution of something that hashelped me so much realize that
alignment is really hard to dowhen you don't create
separation.
Kate Northrup (50:46):
So great. I love it. Thank you so much. I'm so
happy you came.
Amanda Goetz (50:51):
You It was for being amazing.
Kate Northrup (50:53):
Where should people get the book? Where
should they connect with you?Yeah, you can go
Amanda Goetz (50:57):
to toxicgrit.com. Okay, great. And you can
download I have a free workbook,a bonus chapter, if you buy the
book, you can get all of thosethings at toxicgrit.com.
Kate Northrup (51:07):
Amazing, Thank
Amanda Goetz (51:09):
you.
Kate Northrup (51:13):
Thanks for listening to this episode of
Plenty. If you enjoyed it, makesure you subscribe, leave a
rating, leave a review. That'sone of the best ways that you
can ensure to spread theabundance of plenty with others.
You can even text it to a friendand tell them to listen in. And
if you want even more support toexpand your abundance, head over
(51:36):
tokatenorthrop.com/breakthroughs
where you can grab my free moneybreakthrough guide that details
the biggest money breakthroughsfrom some of the top earning
women I know, plus a mini lessonaccompanying it with my own
biggest money breakthroughs anda nervous system healing tool
(51:58):
for you to expand yourabundance.
Again, that's over atkatenorthwick.com/breakthroughs.
See you next time.
So I know these kind of layers of my own onion.
There's the family layer.There's the the cultural layer.
There's the societal layer ofwhat it means to be a woman
right now. There's all of theselayers that we can start to peel
back and understand I have thoselayers and so does that person.
Hello.
Kate Northrup (00:19):
Today, my guest is Amanda Getz. Her brand new
book, Toxic Grit is out today.She's been featured by
entrepreneur, business insider,Yahoo Finance, Forbes, and more.
And she reaches over a 150,000people worldwide with her best
tips on pursuing success withoutlosing your sanity. Amanda used
(00:43):
to be or she sold a companycalled House of Wise.
She was a founder and prior tothat, she was a CMO. She worked
at The Knot and other incrediblebrands. She is a really smart
marketer. She is a single mom ofthree. She's an incredible
athlete.
She is fun. She is smart. Andtoday, we're talking about how
(01:06):
to heal from hustle culturewithout losing your edge,
without losing your ambition. Ithink so often, these
conversations around, makingmoney in softer ways or more
flow, more ease, less hustle canleave a taste in our mouths
like, but does that mean I haveto give up my ambition? Does
(01:27):
that mean I have to give up myedge?
And the answer as you'll hear inthis conversation is absolutely
not. But there are ways to do itwhere you can of course work
smarter, not harder, and getwhat you want without
sacrificing the things thatmatter. As you know, if you've
read my book, Do Less, this is aconversation that is near and
(01:50):
dear to my heart, and I'm soexcited for you to meet Amanda.
Welcome to Plenty. I'm your hostKate Northrup and together we
are going on a journey to helpyou have an incredible
relationship with money, time,and energy and to have abundance
on every possible level.
(02:12):
Every week, we're gonna dive inwith experts and insights to
help you unlock a life ofplenty. Let's go fill our cups.
Please note that the opinionsand perspectives of the guests
on the Plenty podcast are notnecessarily reflective of the
opinions and perspectives ofKate Northrop or anyone who
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works within the Kate Northropbrand.
Amanda Goetz (02:34):
Welcome. Thank you for having me.
Kate Northrup (02:37):
This is amazing.
Amanda Goetz (02:37):
For being
Kate Northrup (02:38):
here, Amanda. I love this. You know, I don't
know if you know this, butsomehow, like, I became aware of
you. I literally have no ideahow I started following you on
Instagram, but it was like whenI moved to Miami in 2021, you
Same. Okay, you moved to Miamiin 2021.
Amanda Goetz (02:56):
Yeah. Oh, what month? August. Okay. Yeah, right
before school started.
Okay. And got down here, gotsettled, got the kids ready. Got
at it. Yeah. And I feel likeeverybody that was moving here
at that time was looking forother people who were moving
here, was
Kate Northrup (03:12):
an interesting time. Yeah, a lot of us came at
that time. So, yeah. And at thetime, you were doing your
business. Well, growing your notdoing.
Growing your business. HouseWise. Many things. And I was so
of course, like, I didn't knowyou. You and I have only met in
person quite recently.
So from what you were doingonline, was like, damn. This
(03:36):
girl has a lot of capacity. Iwas like, with the kids and the
business, and she's exercising.And she's so hot. I was like,
wow.
So my first question Hilarious.Isn't that funny?
Amanda Goetz (03:52):
I'm to cry laughing this So whole podcast,
I know
Kate Northrup (03:56):
I'm curious. Now it is whatever, like four years
later, four years later, you asof today have published your
first book, Toxic Grit, and Iwould love to know that version
of you that I came across on theinternet in probably 2021.
Amanda Goetz (04:18):
What would you tell her now? So in 2021, just
to kind of put it
Kate Northrup (04:24):
into great. Context Yeah, given that I knew
this much about you, like tinytiny sliver.
Amanda Goetz (04:30):
So I filed for divorce in 2018. I had just had
my third baby, so I had threekids under the age of four.
Divorce took about two and ahalf, three So 2020, like I was
one of those people that woke up01/01/2020 and I was like, this
is my year, I'm gonna get mylife back, I'm not gonna be the
(04:51):
woman going through a divorce.And at that time, I was leading
marketing at the Knotz, so I hada team of 50 people. I felt like
I was at the height of mycareer, and then everything kind
of came crashing down.
And when I started to feel likeI was rebuilding in 2020, the
world felt like it was And sofast forward to 2021, that was
(05:15):
the first moment of freedom thatI experienced in years. I got
married when I was engaged at19. Married at I 20 read
Kate Northrup (05:25):
that in your book, and I was like, oh wow,
that's young.
Amanda Goetz (05:29):
Yeah. How old is your oldest now? 11. Yeah.
Kate Northrup (05:33):
So can you imagine in eight years?
Amanda Goetz (05:35):
I can't. What? I can't.
Kate Northrup (05:37):
Yeah. So
Amanda Goetz (05:38):
But you know They've they've signed, like,
invisible contracts with me thatthey're not getting married till
05:30. Till 02:30.
Kate Northrup (05:45):
Okay. Great.
Amanda Goetz (05:45):
I was like, at least until you made a conscious
choice of who you are and whatyou want. But that moment, 2021,
was my ability to spread mywings and see who the fuck I
was. And part of that wasthrough House of Wise, and it's
funny because looking back whatI would tell her is that was a
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stepping stone, not the end, butwhen you're building a business,
that feels like everything. Yep.And and when we grew really
fast, but we also raised VCcapital, so we had to keep
growing really fast, and then wecouldn't sustain it, and so then
we sold.
And at that time I had anotherjust horrible crash again
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because I was like, oh my entireidentity is wrapped up in this
business. It's like, this is whoI am. I'm a founder. And then
when that came crashing down Iwas like, well I don't know who
I am again. So it was a lot ofjust and I talk about this a lot
in the book of the cycles oflife, and that's actually part
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of it is just continuing to remeet yourself and the different
parts of yourself.
And I kept trying to merge themall and say, okay, I'm a
founder. It's like, okay, thatwas one part of me, but I put
everything into that basket.Yeah. So now I think you're
meeting me now at this timewhere I have neatly placed these
(07:18):
roles in their own compartmentsso that I can see that I'm not
all just one thing. I'm not allmom, I'm not all partner because
I'm now getting married again.
I'm not all founder. I'm all ofthese things but in their own
containers. So you talk aboutthese 10 characters that we
have, which I love that concept.I've been a long time in therapy
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with internal family systemstherapy parts work, so huge fan.
Also, I have a theaterbackground, so I'm like, yes.
Right. Exactly.
Kate Northrup (07:49):
We are all playing our roles. We are. Yeah.
It's a very helpful Our mutualfriend Liz, which is how I met
you, I interviewed her once, andshe talked about and it was when
we we had like really youngkids, and she was doing her
business, learn to make aproduct, and she talked about
how the way she was makingeverything work was to know that
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she could be an A in one area,but it was totally fine to be a
B plus or even a C in otherareas and not have this
ridiculous idea that we're gonnabe all in with all of our roles
at the same time. So I love yourconcept to to give us permission
to like you don't have to belike the straight A student in
all of them.
You don't have to be the allstar athlete and the magna cum
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laude or summa, whatever. Idon't remember which one which.
It really doesn't matter, butlike and the top founder and the
whatever. But I am curious, soyou mentioned just now
compartmentalization, and Iwanna know, is there an example
or a time right in your liferight now as you're, you know,
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the truth is this episode comesout on pub day, but we're
recording it obviously far inadvance. So you are getting
ready.
So you're in preparation phasefor launching How a are some of
those roles that you playinforming each other and
actually helping to bolster oneanother right now?
Amanda Goetz (09:14):
So two things. One, the idea that you can't
have all the characters in thespotlight. Like imagine watching
a show and all main characterswere constantly trying to
progress forward at the sametime, right? Chaotic. It's
chaotic.
Kate Northrup (09:30):
Yeah. And ultimately actually boring. When
I think about watching a showlike that, if all 10 were all
there all at the same time, wasboring and not enough depth.
Amanda Goetz (09:39):
And the flip side of that, which is what I fear
happens to many women, is one ortwo characters takes over the
entire plot line. Mhmm. That'salso boring. Yeah. You're right.
Because you need those othercharacters to infuse the levity
Yeah. And the fun. So we havethat cast of characters inside
of ourselves. And for me,gearing up for a season where I
(10:03):
know that my work character or Icall it the CEO character, but
the person that really theversion of me that cares about
achievement and my goals andfinancial success. So funny
because she doesn't play wellwith kids.
Right? Like when I'm in workmode and my kids try to come in,
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I realize, and that was a bigpart of separating these things.
Because whenever I tried tomerge the two I'm snapping at
them, I'm not foking. Butgearing up for a time in my
life, it's about awareness ofwhich character is going to take
some more spotlight. The secondpart is creating boundaries.
Where are you allowing othercharacters to come in? And then
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communicating with the peoplearound you how long is this
going to be a Yes, totally. Andthen having that checkpoint. So
I know December 1 when I'mthrough, you know, I go on the
book tour, December 1 I have acheckpoint and I'm going to
reprioritize and for the nextfour weeks, kids, family is
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everything. We're going on a bigtrip, we're so excited.
And they all know that. And theyalso are in the fold because
I've communicated to them whythis is important for me. And I
say like the definition of toxicgrit is hustle without
intention. We created these kindof binary pendulums I think for
women that are reallyexhausting. Right?
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Like there was the you and Iwere just talking about like
kind of the girl boss era,right, where it was like, okay,
the the path to being aninspiring woman is to build
companies and break glassceilings, etcetera, lean in.
Well, a lot of women burnt out,so then we swung the pendulum
over here and it's like, wellno, be completely in your
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feminine, be a trad wife, bethis. For most people
Kate Northrup (11:57):
But also grow a killer following while you're
Amanda Goetz (12:00):
But also may like, look amazing and make the
perfect stuff, like, sourdoughwhatever. But most of us live in
the middle of and so how do westop creating these, like,
binary pendulum swings? It'shustle with intention. Why is
this important to you? Why doesthis build towards the next
goal?
And communicate that to peopleso that they're a part of that
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decision, not just, oh, wellsociety is telling me to go do
this thing so I go do it. Howold is your youngest? Seven.
Kate Northrup (12:31):
So you have a seven, a what, and an 11?
Amanda Goetz (12:33):
Seven, nine, 11.
Kate Northrup (12:34):
Seven, nine, okay. I have a seven, nine. I
just don't have the 11 year old.So I'm thinking about, as you
say this, so my mom came outwith her first book when I was
11.
Amanda Goetz (12:42):
Oh my gosh.
Kate Northrup (12:43):
Yeah. And it was You know, was so proud of her,
but I was also 11, and I waslike, why do you work all the
time? And I just want to say,like, I love the way you're
communicating with yourchildren, I'm assuming with your
fiance as Like, okay, this isgonna be all in for this period
of time, and then there's a dateat which we will reorganize, and
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you'll get more of me back forthis role. I think that's also
really helpful as a businessowner because when we publish
books, it can be this open endedloop of forever of like now I'm
supposed to be hustling to sellthis thing for the rest of my
life, and it can feel thispressure of like, oh, it did
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well in the first week, so now Ihave to even Like do I was
texting a girlfriend of mine,and she was like, I'm feeling
all She became a bestseller, andshe was like, I'm feeling all
this pressure. Now everyone'stelling me I have to keep at it
and do more and do more, and Iwas like, girl, that thing's
gonna keep selling itself.
Like, just lie down. So I lovethat you have a stop date.
That's so smart. How did youdecide what the date was? Not
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stop like you're not gonna sellyour book anymore.
Yeah. But I understand. Like,the the season will then shift.
Amanda Goetz (13:56):
So I have a story and then I'll answer that So the
story, when I was a single momwith three young kids, I was
leading marketing for a bigteam, and I had to leave every
day at 4PM. Because my kids, youknow, when they're that little,
they go to bed at like 06:30.
Kate Northrup (14:15):
Totally, you have no time after school. No.
Daycare or whatever.
Amanda Goetz (14:19):
So I needed to get home, relieve the nanny so that
I could do bath and get themfed, and then then it's like
seven and everybody's asleep. SoI knew that if I needed to look
at emails I could do that at07:30 whatever. At my
performance review I remembertalking to someone, it was not
my direct boss but somebodyelse, and they were like well
you're hitting all your goals,but you leave at four every day.
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And I was like, yeah? Well justwhat would happen if you stayed
till six?
Think about how much more youwould do. And it's this elusive
enough that we're constantlyfacing that, yeah, my capacity
does not equal my my capabilityand what I actually want to do.
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Capacity does not equal likealignment in what you're going
for at the macro level. So forme I know that I I do wanna
write books and this is a bigpart of that. It's a big journey
into this next step.
And I want to have a greatrelationship and I want to be a
present mom. And so figuring outwhat those I call it a spin
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cycle because when you use awashing machine like the spin
cycle alleviates all theheaviness. Mhmm. What does a
spin cycle look for you torecheck in with yourself to say,
okay. I just pushed for a littlebit with this character.
Whether that's your momcharacter or caregiver character
or your explorer character,you've been traveling a lot, run
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a spin cycle. You've beenpushing really hard with one
character. Allow yourself tokind of alleviate the intensity
from that character, good orbad, like whatever it is, and
say what what does the nextseason look like? And for some
people during that spin cyclethey may say I'm ready to keep
going. Yeah.
And so for me December is a timefor me to check-in, say wow is
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this filling me up? Is thisgiving me energy? To what
extent? And also what am Isacrificing to get that? So I
think it's really important tohave check ins with yourself to
say, is this still in alignment?
And to give yourself permissionto let another character come in
and say, I'm good right
Kate Northrup (16:34):
Or to go for a second season. Yeah. Right? If
that's appropriate. And I thinkit's the we have such a tendency
to just keep going without everpulling our head up.
Yeah. To look around and belike, oh wait, let me reassess.
So I think that's so smart. Iwould imagine, you know, you
talked about boundary setting,you know, you talked about this
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person at your performancereview being like, imagine what
would happen if you stayed untilsix, which by the way, their
comment was completely non databacked. Because actually what we
see is that there is acompletely diminishing rate of
return if you stay longer andsit at your computers.
There is not at all an increasein productivity. It actually
decreases. That's, and probablythose extra two hours would have
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started eating away at yourresults for the previous hours
as well. That's anotherconversation for another day.
Yeah.
But I would imagine along theway, you know, you're a
successful woman, you are goodlooking, you are articulate,
right? You are you are, youknow, and you have been through
a lot, and I know that, and Ionly know a small, very small
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percentage. However, I wouldimagine that people project on
you and get annoyed when you sayno or set a boundary or
whatever, whether it's around awork thing, whether it's a
personal thing, whether it's themoms at drop off, whether it's
your family, I don't really knowyou, but I'm imagining this
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happens.
Amanda Goetz (18:01):
Check, check, check.
Kate Northrup (18:02):
And I know that the avoidance of the discomfort
of those projections and peoplefeeling some kind of way about
the way we've chosen to livetheir lives and us not being the
way they expect us or not beingthe way that's comfortable for
them, the avoidance of thatdiscomfort keeps so many women
from going after what they wantand keeps them playing a role
(18:25):
that ultimately doesn't evenbelong in their cast of
characters, like it's not eventhem to begin with. How do you
deal with projection, withpeople being disappointed in
you, random strangers on theinternet, your mother, you know,
whoever.
Amanda Goetz (18:40):
All of that, yeah. So the first thing, I've done a
ton of work, right? So doing alot of the internal work to know
what script of your movie wasgiven to you versus written by
you, right? And so I'm veryaware of what stuff, what is my
(19:01):
stuff, what is my programmingthat was given to me because of
my upbringing. I grew up in afirst generation college, like I
was the first person to go tocollege in my family, I grew up
very poor, and so there's a lotof programming that was handed
to me of like, oh wealthy peoplemean x, And so I know these kind
(19:23):
of layers of my own onion.
There's the family layer,there's the the cultural layer,
there's the societal layer ofwhat it means to be a woman
right now. There's all of theselayers that we can start to peel
back and understand I have thoselayers and so does that person.
Kate Northrup (19:40):
So
Amanda Goetz (19:42):
I can look at that and hold that that's not
actually mine and put a littlebubble around myself and say
that's their layers that they'reworking through. And that's not
for me to take on. The secondpiece of that is, and I know we
were talking about this a littlebit, I've now met with a
hypnotherapist, and I did thislike crazy five hour session
(20:05):
realizing how early we makedecisions about ourselves. Like
from the time one of my memoriesthat I was like, how do I have
this memory? Was when I was inthe hospital as a baby at a
subconscious level, and I'm surepeople are gonna be like, this
sounds so woo woo.
Kate Northrup (20:25):
Not my people.
Amanda Goetz (20:27):
I had a vision because my mom, I was in
emergency C section and then sheended up getting sepsis and
almost died, and I didn't see mymom for seven days. I never
connected that with anything ofmy adult life. In this
hypnotherapy session I sawmyself in the little room with
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all the nurses walking aroundand I felt alone. And I was
like, Oh, I made decision thenthat I need to make sure that
people didn't leave me. Wow.
And so in this session she hadme make a different decision.
Like it's not my job to beperfect so people will stay. And
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it's really freeing to realizethat when you can go back and
kind of make a differentdecision for yourself, how you
operate in a very differentreframe because that's not your
default decision. I'm scaredthat if I don't respond to my
friend immediately I'm going tolose them as a friend. If I stop
(21:34):
looking at that situation thatway and say that's not my
responsibility, I'm prioritizingthis right now, I will get to
that in a little bit, and if Ilose them as a friend they
weren't meant to be in my lifeand supporting me.
So I think realizing that thereare some decisions we made about
ourselves that we can choose nowas adults to take the different
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decision.
Kate Northrup (21:57):
What's so powerful about what you're
saying is that according to oursubconscious and our psyche and
our nervous system, all time isnow. Our bodies have no sense of
time. And that's why the powerof visualization works, right,
for Olympic athletes and allthis stuff. It also works with
this because we actually canrewire ourselves so that that
(22:22):
decision literally now wasdifferent. Like it's not just,
oh, that was a cool exercise,and now I feel better.
Like, now you're different.Yeah. Because all time is now
according to your psyche, whichis what's so powerful about
therapies like hypnotherapy. Ilove that so much. That's
incredible.
Amanda Goetz (22:40):
And so when I feel projection or anything, I can
say this is not my job to earntheir love or attention. It's
not
Kate Northrup (22:48):
my job. So before we came on today, my team sent a
little email with a correctionto you, and you had responded
very graciously and said, Noworries, this is a sign that you
guys are focused on the rightAnd I know that one of your
topics that you're so good at isaround energy management and
(23:11):
focusing on the right things toget the result that we're
actually after. So how do youhelp people who are overwhelmed
with You and I both know. Whenyou're running a business, there
is literally an infinite numberof things you could put your
attention on. Possibilities forgrowth, this opportunity, that
collaboration.
(23:31):
And I hear from people all thetime, I'm just overwhelmed. I
don't know where to start. Doyou help people cut through that
quagmire and focus on the rightthings?
Amanda Goetz (23:42):
Yeah. So I'll give the most simple answer and then
I'll kind of work backwards. SoI talk about my to do list, like
the number to do list. Every dayI look at the different
characters that I've placed asimportant for that day and I say
what are two things that I canmove forward that would
(24:03):
meaningfully develop thatcharacter's storyline, plotline,
whatever. So for today, forwork, I needed to work on a deck
that would meaningfully movesomething forward, and I needed
to put together a project plan.
Two meaningful things. Okay. Ifocused and finished those two
(24:24):
things in about an hour and ahalf. Yeah. Because when you
actually know what you'refocused on, you remove
distractions, you can actuallyhit flow state pretty quickly.
Right? So I separate parking lotversus priorities. My parking
lot's massive. I've got like a10 story parking lot and it is
full at capacity. But every dayI look at that parking lot and
(24:48):
say, well what's giving meenergy?
What what do I feel like is on alevel of impact and effort?
Where is that falling in thequadrants? And say, well okay,
I'll work on this one. And I putthat literally on a post it note
in front of me. When I get thosetwo things done I get the
satisfaction of throwing it thetrash can.
But the same thing goes forbeing a parent, being a partner.
(25:12):
If I can do two things well,intentionally well as a parent
in the day, if that means I'mgoing to sit and be super
intentional at dinner time, andI'm going to give each kid a
thirty minute tuck in like I dolike the little rotation, right?
If I can do that well but I wasshuffling around in the morning,
(25:36):
right? Like it's okay I did twothings well and that's enough.
And I think the word enoughkeeps coming back over and over
again of you've said that thesewere the priorities for today,
that's as much as you can do sothat you can develop a couple of
characters.
And we as highly ambitiouswomen, we think that I have to,
(25:59):
like you said, an A plus ineverything. Well it's okay if
those two things is an a and ac. Like if I can't go get a full
workout in and I just go and I'mlike, alright, I'm gonna walk on
the treadmill for ten minutesand scroll TikTok because that's
like what I need right now.Mhmm. Okay.
That's fine. But just figuringout what are the biggest things
(26:22):
that will have the most impact,saying that's enough and then
moving on to the next role thatyou play. That's to me when I
coach people and talk to people,I'll look at their day and their
context switching like a crazyperson, just like they're doing
emails and then they jump to alittle bit of a project, then
they jump over here. Studieshave shown that context
(26:46):
switching is horrible.
Kate Northrup (26:48):
I know, but we're so addicted
Amanda Goetz (26:49):
to We're so addicted to it. So it's people
are looking for this complexanswer, but the the answer is
very simple. Focus and finish.If I could be really great
during our conversation and thenshut off work mode and then go
straight to dinner with friends
Kate Northrup (27:07):
Yeah.
Amanda Goetz (27:07):
They get all of me as a friend and you get all of
me in this conversation. But ifI was multitasking and like
trying to text them before it'slike that doesn't work. You have
to give yourself the space to befully present, and I think this
is where guilt comes from.Trying to be multiple versions
(27:28):
of ourselves at one time. Like Isaid, my work mode and mom mode
and partner mode, none of thosereally mesh well together.
If I want to be intimate or feelsensual, I can't see my kids.
Right. And I can't see emails.And so allowing myself to say
(27:52):
what does compartmentalizationlook like? How can I focus and
finish and give my all to thisversion of myself?
Is actually the way that I canmove things forward more
effectively.
Kate Northrup (28:02):
Yeah. Okay, so we're having a really great left
brain conversation right now,which I, wait, yep, which I so
appreciate because I live forthe logistics of, I'm not, I
will say I'm not naturallyactually that good at this sort
of thing that you're talkingabout, even though I did write a
book about it. I guess I've hadto learn the hard way. I'm
(28:27):
actually I'm gonna ask youanother question, but wait.
Before we do that, I have onemore question about the
logistics.
In the parking lot, the 10 storygarage, every day when you're
pulling out your to do list,which I love, Obviously, you're
not going through every car onall 10 stories. So higher level,
like, is do you have some kindof system or way that you're
(28:51):
holding well, so it's thecharacters. Right? So you kinda
know the priorities for theseason or whatever, for the
week, for the month, like, is itintuitive? How do you how do you
pull out those two things?
Amanda Goetz (29:01):
Yeah. There's a whole chapter on this. Right.
But at a highest level, youfirst have to know what's what
are you moving towards? What'syour why?
Like, where are you going inthis season? So like right now,
okay, book tour is the season.Yeah. Right? So now I can
prioritize certain things overother things.
Like and I've communicated thatto my friends. I won't see you
(29:23):
till December. See you later.Right? Like and they know that,
and they're there to support mebecause I've communicated that.
Now when you look every week atyour parking lot, you have to
understand and I I worked withtons of engineers, so I work in
two week sprints. Right? It'slike what are what is the big
project I'm focused on for twoweeks at a time? And usually at
(29:45):
work you can start to say like,okay, if I actually did let's
take a very simple example. Sayyou wanted to relaunch your
website.
What I would do with somebody ifI was coaching them, I'd say
we're gonna Kit Kat this. We'regonna break it down. Okay? You
want a new website. Well thatmeans you have to write copy for
that website.
Mhmm. You have to maybe takepictures for that website. You
(30:08):
need to determine where thebuttons are going and maybe that
leads to you have to create anew asset. You break it down. So
this big thing that was maybe inyour parking lot, like new
website, actually gets brokendown into 10 or so things that
you've Kit Katted.
And then you say, well that's mysprint for two weeks. Then I
(30:32):
learned What are they Kit Kats?Yeah, so landing page, like
know. New Menews your questions,
Kate Northrup (30:38):
I know. Wait.
Amanda Goetz (30:39):
So landing page is your sprint for two weeks.
Kate Northrup (30:41):
Got it.
Amanda Goetz (30:42):
And then you've Kit Katted it into 10 different
parts. I would put those all onPost it notes, and then every
day
Kate Northrup (30:48):
You just take one. Two.
Amanda Goetz (30:50):
And so imagine, something that feels like, oh, a
new website, that's gonna takeme months. If you broke it down
and you actually focused andfinished, you'd have it done in
ten days.
Kate Northrup (31:01):
So are you largely in your work life
working on one thing at a time?Yes. I mean, give or take. The
one thing right now is booklaunch. Yep.
Right, so it's a big thing.Yeah. But then this one thing
has these smaller pieces. Andthen what about all the other
things? Well, obviously, they'recontributing, right?
(31:21):
Like your social mediacontributes, your newsletter
contributes, so all the rowersare rowing in the same direction
Amanda Goetz (31:27):
Yeah.
Kate Northrup (31:27):
As it were.
Amanda Goetz (31:28):
And so I think about offense versus defense
time. Offense is I have theball, I'm moving it forward, I'm
moving towards a goal. Defenseis other people need me, I need
to be in meetings, I need to beon social, I need to respond to
Slack, all of that. I have toseparate those two.
Kate Northrup (31:42):
Mhmm.
Amanda Goetz (31:42):
Because offense time is deep work time. I gotta
create. Yep. I have to think.Defense, I need to respond.
Right? So I make sure that twohours a day are just offense. I
am fully focused on the two Postit notes in front of me and I
get those things done. And Iknow you talk a lot about this,
(32:05):
being in tune with your body andknowing when you can hit that
focused time. I know for me,morning, focus, get that work
done, and then twelve to threeis my meeting time.
If people need me, that's whenI'm and then I have two pockets
for email admin time, and theneverything else is delegated.
Kate Northrup (32:24):
And then like the kids come home and that's it.
Amanda Goetz (32:26):
Yeah. I have to be done with work at three. Yeah.
Because kids get out of schooland then they have to be taken
to everything, and so I have tobe done at three, and I also
need to make sure I have timefor movement in So my yeah,
offense versus defense was a bigunlock for me to say, I have the
parking lot, I'm gonna breakthose things into little smaller
(32:49):
things that are achievable in aone to two hour time block. I
focus and finish on those andthen I move on to all of the
other stuff.
Yep. But that's moving the bigthing forward that we tend to
look at a to do list and we lookat the easiest thing to do, and
then you don't ever havemeaningful time to move the big
(33:10):
project forward. So flip it onits head, do the big project
first, and then everything elsekind of fits in.
Kate Northrup (33:17):
Yeah, and it really does, for anyone who's
listening feeling like, how doesshe get it all done before three
and move her body and only havemeetings from twelve to three
and, you know, and and and.Quite frankly, when you devote
your best hours of the day tothe most important thing,
everything else pretty muchworks out, or you realize it
(33:39):
wasn't that important, and itcan be canceled, rescheduled,
delegated to somebody else, butit becomes obvious because the
big thing is the big thing isthe big thing, and then it's
done, and then you're like, oh,great, so that's done now.
Amanda Goetz (33:51):
The significance trap is real. Yeah. Is something
actually as important as youdeem it to be? Right. And I
always use the ten ten tenframework, like will this matter
in ten minutes?
Will this matter in ten hours?Will this matter in ten days?
Like your friend texting youtheir their crazy date story or
(34:12):
whatever, they'll be fine in tenhours. Like, I can respond.
Right?
Your kid needing to be picked upfrom the school because they're
sick, that's you you got it. Soit's just a significance
expectation and and radar tosay, is this actually as
important as I'm making it? Andto your point, like a lot of
things there's a lot of cars inmy parking lot that are really
(34:33):
dusty. Yep. Because I actuallyrealize they're not
Kate Northrup (34:37):
as important and meaningful to moving everything
else forward. Totally. We weused to have a president of our
company who kept a little, like,vintage tea kettle on her desk,
and when I would give her anidea because I'm like an idea
machine.
Amanda Goetz (34:53):
I've You're a
Kate Northrup (34:54):
starter. Oh my gosh. And finishing things is
literally so hard for me, whichis why I married my husband. He
is just so good at taking itacross the finish line. But she
would in meetings with me, shedid not tell me this until a
year after we were workingtogether.
Amanda Goetz (35:11):
Yeah, I'm so excited.
Kate Northrup (35:12):
She would take down my idea, and she would be
like, absolutely, and she wouldwrite it down and just really
meet me where I was, and thenshe would put it in the tea
kettle, the little thing on herdesk, and then she would only
ever pull it out again if Imentioned it again at another
time because I'm the queen ofgetting all my energy around
(35:37):
something new and then gettingit going, and then well, I used
to be. I've really broken thathabit, So But the
Amanda Goetz (35:44):
world needs starters, and the world
Kate Northrup (35:45):
needs finishers.
Amanda Goetz (35:46):
Yes. Like finishers can't create a ton of
ideas, and so for me, everyquarter I'll look at excuse me,
sorry. I'll look at all of theideas that I've had, and I'll
pick one or two and say thoseare the ones I'm gonna spend my
time on, like watching anewsletter or Yeah. A course or
whatever it is. You're allowedto have all those ideas.
(36:08):
You just have to a vehicle toput them in. A tea kettle.
Kate Northrup (36:11):
A tea kettle. Or whatever. Okay. So wanna know a
little bit more about yournewsletter. It's funny, you
know, I've been in this industryfor a long time, and in twenty
two thousand nine, I started anewsletter.
Been writing it ever since.Smiles. It's great. And then
everybody somewhere along theway turned to social media, and
(36:33):
I was like, I mean not that Iwasn't there, but I was like,
Hi. Just email us, email us,email us.
And then it's so funny becausemany of my friends in the
industry who've been around fora long time are like launching
newsletters, which is thegreatest idea ever. I completely
agree, and I think I've nevertaken mine seriously enough. So
(36:55):
maybe, whatever. Anyway, but I'mcurious for you, you know, for
people listening, like lookingat what's working now, trends,
whatever, as you looked at thewhole landscape of the coaching
world, personal development,authors, thought leaders, you
know, whatever, what had youdecide you were gonna double
down on a newsletter?
Amanda Goetz (37:12):
First and foremost, was about developing
the skill of writing. Oh great.And I I believe in truly loving
the process of something, notthe outcome. Right? Like if
you're gonna start something youhave to do it don't just say
like, I wanna run a marathon.
It's like no, I want this timeto I go learn to love to write.
(37:33):
I've always loved writing. I'vebeen a marketer my whole career
and I'm always like, I'll writethe copy, I'll do that. It's
fine, I'll write the emails. Andthis was my the newsletter came
from me wanting to see if a bookwas in my future.
Kate Northrup (37:47):
Got it.
Amanda Goetz (37:48):
Right? If that was maybe the end goal, can I write
800 to a thousand words and sitdown and do that? And how did
that feel? Did that give meenergy? And it did.
I loved it. And so that's when Iknew that I wanted to go down
the book route. And I'd grown toover a 100,000 followers on
Twitter at the time because Ilove writing, that was the
(38:10):
platform that I, back in theday, used. And I got hacked and
lost full access. It washorrible.
Woah. Whole other story of likepeople were these people in
Europe were scamming people formoney and because I'm like very
vulnerable online, it was likepeople thought it was me and it
(38:32):
was so bad. So it was thisdouble edged sort of I knew that
I needed to have greater controlover my audience and I wanted to
love this skill of writing. Sothat was newsletter opened up
everything for me. Now I hadbeen building a personal brand,
but obviously on a platform thatnow I can't swing a cat and get
(38:55):
a tweet to go viral.
Like, it's so that's the issuewith algorithms and picking and
going all in on a platform.Totally. So now I'm like
starting over. I'm like, oh,okay, Instagram, I'm there now.
That used to just be like mykids eating broccoli, and now
it's like, okay, here's all mythoughts.
But you can have more controland agency when you have an
(39:17):
email list as you know, and soit's so powerful.
Kate Northrup (39:20):
I love that. And what are you doing? What are
some of your best tips formaking your newsletters
readable, relevant, andsomething that people look
forward to and open and engagewith. Because a lot of people
are like, no one reads emails,and I'm like, no, no, no. There
are several newsletters or justemails even if the person
(39:43):
doesn't call it a newsletter,that I would say I open and read
80% of them, because even if Idon't know the person, I have
built a relationship with them.
Social, Compared which is morelike whatever even is happening
over there. What are you doingto infuse yours with that
(40:04):
energy?
Amanda Goetz (40:05):
There's a couple of different formats of
newsletters. Right? There's theI'm gonna go be kind of a
flashlight and shine a light onall these other topics,
etcetera. I chose to be more ofwhat I call a porch light. Like
I'm going to be with you.
I'm learning with you, and I'mgoing to share a story of
(40:26):
something I learned, and thenturn it into a tactical exercise
or takeaway for you to say, Ifthis is something you also feel
like you're working through,walking through, here are some
steps that helped me. And theauthenticity of feeling like you
are third type of creator,there's porch lights bringing
(40:50):
people in, there's flashlightslooking at other people, and
then there's what do you callit? A boat that looks
lighthouse. Yeah. I'm like,what's that word?
I'll get there. I felt like Iwas playing charades. You know,
the thing with It's
Kate Northrup (41:04):
nautical. Right. There's an anchor.
Amanda Goetz (41:08):
So a lighthouse, those are the people who you're
like, I don't know if I'll everget there. They're so
aspirational. I've chosen theporch light. It's like, come in,
let's do this together. I'm notperfect.
I share all of my things, like,all the lessons I'm learning. I
don't pretend to know it all,but I'm growing with you. And I
(41:30):
think that that has led to itgrowing the fastest because
there's a lot of guru type stuffout there that I think people
are starting to have an allergicreaction.
Kate Northrup (41:41):
Yeah, it's annoying. To
Amanda Goetz (41:42):
Yeah, it's like there are no 10 simple steps to
do anything. So true. There'sjust not. And so I'm not going
to pretend that there are, I'mbut gonna give you some
frameworks or some new ways tolook at it that helped me think
about it differently.
Kate Northrup (41:56):
Yeah, realistic, it's human, but it's also really
a smart way of looking at life.Because if we change the way
that we're relating to things,our results do shift. And sit
around in this industry longenough and you realize no one
knows what they're doing anyway,and so why pretend like it on
Amanda Goetz (42:16):
the internet? No, I know. It's so funny. I mean,
you know, you've been in theworld the creator world and been
around a lot of people. Everytime I put somebody on a
pedestal, and then I well, Ieventually meet that person, and
I'm like, oh, they also don'tknow.
Kate Northrup (42:36):
Okay, cool. But I think that's just part of our
humanity to constantly be like,oh wait, maybe them. Maybe And
then you're like, oh no, justonce again. However, that
doesn't mean we can't beaspirational and learn from
people, and be like, do actuallyseem to really know what you're
doing in this one arena, and Ireally do wanna listen to
(42:58):
everything you have to say onthat topic. Yeah.
I'm like that. I go so deep withsomeone. Same. And I'm just
like, I don't need to takemarriage advice from someone
who's been divorced 10 times,but in one area, I'm like, I'll
learn how to grow my email listfrom you all day long. Exactly.
Okay. So hard left. Hard left.
Amanda Goetz (43:21):
It's not a card
Kate Northrup (43:21):
I was gonna go here before, but then I wanted
to ask more logisticalquestions. One of the things so
you talked about in your bookthat you realized either as you
were getting divorced or after,I don't know the timeline, that
you were bisexual, and one ofthe things you've talked about a
lot, like whatever, a lot, butyou are definitely someone who
(43:42):
is essentially expressed womanin public. And I would love to
hear more about how yourrelationship with your body,
your sexuality, and yoursensuality inform, if at all,
anything about your business,and if not, you can just be
like, they don't.
Amanda Goetz (44:00):
It's so interesting because I
compartmentalize them becausethat's how I view it. So like I
said, I got engaged so young. Iwas in college, never had and I
grew up very religious,Catholic, and so I didn't really
and I'm from a very small ruraltown, so I had no even template
of what it looked like toexplore your sexuality. Then I
(44:24):
find myself in my 30s divorced,running a sexual health and
wellness company, and like
Kate Northrup (44:31):
Which was House of Wise. Yes. Right, and so for
folks who don't know, what wasthe company?
Amanda Goetz (44:36):
The company was giving women permission to take
control of their sleep, sex,stress, and strength through
four different productverticals, yeah. And they were
originally formulated gummies.
Kate Northrup (44:45):
They were great. Thank you. You're welcome.
Amanda Goetz (44:48):
And they worked.
Kate Northrup (44:49):
Yeah. So
Amanda Goetz (44:51):
at that time it was, like I said, my identity in
House of Wise was really I see.
Kate Northrup (44:56):
Yes, it was very much part of the brand.
Amanda Goetz (44:58):
Because I was exploring my sexuality at that
time and started to date womenand had a girlfriend for a
while, and it was interestingbecause I learned so much about
myself through that exploration.And I have to say being learning
(45:19):
that you're bisexual later inlife after dating men your whole
life, and then also choosing andfalling in love and marrying a
man also gives this is stilllike a layered thing for me of
like taking up space in thisconversation because there's a
part of it that feels like, am Itruly valid in taking up space?
(45:44):
But I loved both men and women,and it's it's been a beautiful
part of my journey that allowedme to continue to realize that I
can break boxes. Yeah. Like ifanything, it was a reminder that
what was given to me, any ofthese scripts that were told
(46:06):
like, oh, I was an athlete mywhole life, I have a very I know
you talk a lot in masculinefeminine energies, I present
very feminine.
I'm a very masculine energyperson.
Kate Northrup (46:22):
Yeah.
Amanda Goetz (46:22):
And that I think allowing myself to see what that
felt like in differentrelationship dynamics was so
freeing.
Kate Northrup (46:33):
Because
Amanda Goetz (46:34):
in most heteronormative relationships I
suppress my masculine to be inmy feminine for my partner. And
I think that that's what led meto be with someone who I can be
both, I can actually embody bothin different times. And it's why
(46:57):
I'm so happy with Dan, myperson, because allowing myself
to explore that part of me ledme to find somebody that allowed
me to exist in both of thosemultitudes.
Kate Northrup (47:12):
That's so beautiful. Yeah. Yeah, and I
think that when we have thecourage to break out of a box in
one area of our life, which youobviously did in your divorce,
and then becoming a founderafter having a corporate job,
and then around sexuality, andthen whatever, right? I'm sure
there's lots of other examples.It does get, you know, it
(47:35):
builds, you're probably aware ofthis, it builds something called
self efficacy where then we cancall upon that in completely
different contexts.
So while it may not be that thatone area is directly impacting,
it's like that we are who we arein all the different roles, and
you're gonna bring those skillsets laterally. For sure.
Amanda Goetz (47:56):
You can't talk. Right. Allowing one character to
express themselves and pushboundaries builds that muscle
that the other characters have.So now I can push boundaries in
my business because I know thatany time I've pushed a boundary
I grow and expand.
Kate Northrup (48:15):
Yeah.
Amanda Goetz (48:16):
So it's just really beautiful when you can
allow yourself to do that in onearea and watch it happen in the
others for sure.
Kate Northrup (48:25):
This may seem like a very obvious question or
I don't know, but I wanna knowwhy did you write this book?
Amanda Goetz (48:32):
There's a story that I tell in the book that
this book has kind of beenpercolating for years since my
divorce. And House of Wise wasactually the book in CPG wrapped
form. Right? It's givingyourself permission to be in
multitudes. And we say that, buthow?
(48:55):
It's like how do I have anactive sex life and be a present
mom and work? It's like how?Tell me how. But so there's the
story I tell in the book where Iwas at work all day, I raced
home, let the nanny go, I'mputting the kids in the bathtub,
I'm getting the kids ready forbed and I get them down and the
two are in their cribs and I'mrocking the baby and
(49:17):
breastfeeding the baby and I'mjust like sweat dripping down my
boobs, like all of it, you know?Because at that point, I'm a
single mom.
And I took out my phone and Iwrote the words, you can have it
all, and I just stared at it.And it just wasn't clicking for
me. And then I realized that thething that was not clicking was
(49:40):
the you. Because the mom insideof me doesn't care about going
to work. She wanted to just stayhome and rock the babies.
The person I am at work doesn'twant to leave it for. Yeah. And
like the party girl inside of medoesn't want to be ruining my
boobs like breastfeeding. Yes.Like there's these different
(50:04):
yous inside of you.
And that was the moment for meto start to allow myself to give
space for the fact that I havethese competing versions of
myself. And so House of Wisethen was this evolution of that
to say, give yourself permissionto experience pleasure. Like
(50:27):
what does that look like? Whatdo you need? Do you need space?
Do you need a routine? And sothis book is just a continuing
evolution of something that hashelped me so much realize that
alignment is really hard to dowhen you don't create
separation.
Kate Northrup (50:46):
So great. I love it. Thank you so much. I'm so
happy you came.
Amanda Goetz (50:51):
You It was for being amazing.
Kate Northrup (50:53):
Where should people get the book? Where
should they connect with you?Yeah, you can go
Amanda Goetz (50:57):
to toxicgrit.com. Okay, great. And you can
download I have a free workbook,a bonus chapter, if you buy the
book, you can get all of thosethings at toxicgrit.com.
Kate Northrup (51:07):
Amazing, Thank
Amanda Goetz (51:09):
you.
Kate Northrup (51:13):
Thanks for listening to this episode of
Plenty. If you enjoyed it, makesure you subscribe, leave a
rating, leave a review. That'sone of the best ways that you
can ensure to spread theabundance of plenty with others.
You can even text it to a friendand tell them to listen in. And
if you want even more support toexpand your abundance, head over
(51:36):
tokatenorthrop.com/breakthroughs
where you can grab my free moneybreakthrough guide that details
the biggest money breakthroughsfrom some of the top earning
women I know, plus a mini lessonaccompanying it with my own
biggest money breakthroughs anda nervous system healing tool
(51:58):
for you to expand yourabundance.
Again, that's over atkatenorthwick.com/breakthroughs.
See you next time.
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